The Ark of The Covenant, part 2

(Sorry, I thought I was replying and not posting.)

Our Creator instituted the Sabbath at the Creation of the world, before there were Israelites. He made the Sabbath for man, not, the Jews.

Obeserving days,months...again, the feasts,of the ceremonial law and not, the Ten Commandments.

Jesus said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall ENTER into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. MANY will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord have we not...in thy name done many wonderful works? ("Christians" do works in His name.) And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from me ye that work iniquity." (Lawlessness)Matt 7:21-23.

The flip side is "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not his commandments, is a LIAR, and the truth (Jesus: John 14:6; the law: 119:142, and ALL the commandments: Ps 119:151) is not in him." 1 John 2:3,4.

If you don't keep His commandments, it is evidence, that, you are not under the New Covenant. Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10.

When Jesus gave us, the "Two Greatest Commandments," He was quoting the law. Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18.

These two commandments, are a summation of the Ten: If you love the Lord, supremely, you will keep the first four. If you love your neighbour as yourself, you will, also, keep the last six.

"By THIS we know that we love the children of God (#2), when we love God and keep his commandments. For THIS is the love of God, (#1) that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2,3.

Do you find His commandments grievous? Then, how can you claim to be under the New Covenant? Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10.

Are you saying, that, we can worship other gods, bow down to graven images, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonor our parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, covet and walk with a holy God?

How foolish!

The old man was conceived in sin. "The plowing of the wicked is sin." Without a new heart and His Spirit, all we do is sin. Why? Because, it is our nature. When we are born-again and have HIs nature within us, we are to crucify the flesh with it's passions and lusts and walk in His Spirit. "In Him is no sin" - "(the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:13.)He is holy. If we want to walk with Him, we must walk in holiness.

"What shall we say then? Shall we CONTINUE IN SIN (the "transgression of the law") that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Rom 6:1.

"By faith...Abraham obeyed." Heb 11:8. Faith and obedience to His commandments go hand in hand.

"Who forgiveth all thine iniquities: who healeth all thy diseases...As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us...To such as keep his covenant, and to those that REMEMBER his commandments, to do them" Ps 103.

Hi again, sscr01.

"Our Creator instituted the Sabbath at the Creation of the world, before there were Israelites. He made the Sabbath for man, not, the Jews."

What do you mean by instituted?

The Bible says that the observance of the 7th day, as a Law, was given to the [b]children of Israel[/b]. I don't think speculations as to God's intentions for it are appropriate, epsecially when they are being put forth as facts, rather than suppositions.

Sscr01, these are a public forums, viewed all over the world. And you are setting forth doctrine.

[b][color=000000] Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.[/color][/b]

[b][color=000000]Speak thou also unto the children of Israel...[/color][/b]

[b][color=000000]...it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations[/color][/b]

Post duplicated. Deleted.

"And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made." Gen 2:2,3.

The children of Israel kept the Sabbath before the Ten Commandments were given. Ex 16:26-30.

"Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made, He saith not, And to thy seeds, as of many: but as of one, And to thy seed which is Christ." "And if ye be Christ's, then are YE Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Ga 3:16,29.

"For HE IS NOT A JEW, who is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter, whose praise is not of men, but of God." Rom 2:28,29.

The promises were made through Abraham to the children of promise (Rom 9:6-8), who are justified by faith - whether, Jew or Gentile. Ga 3:7; Eph 2:12,13: 3:6.

"The Sabbath was made for man." Jesus, fulfilled the law, competely. How did He keep the Sabbath? By worshipping the Father, fellowshipping with believers, casting our devils, healing the sick...

We are to "walk as He walked." 1 John 2:6.

Hi again sscr01.

"The children of Israel kept the Sabbath before the Ten Commandments were given. Ex 16:26-30."

Go back up a bit to verse 23:

[b][color=000000] And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.[/color][/b]

[i]...This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord[/i]

God's word to them was as much as Law to them.

This has nothing to do with the sabbath day being established as a Law unto mankind or the Ten Comandments, as you stated elsewhere

The Ten Commandments are God's eternal Covenant with man

"The promises were made through Abraham to the children of promise..."

Right. The promises. Not the commandments. Certianly not the keeping of sabbath as a Law.

Chris

Yes - they kept the Sabbath before the Ten Commandments.

The point is, that, God recognizes the children of faith as the children of Abraham - both, Jew and Gentile.

It amazes me, how that, christians will claim to keep the Ten Commandments, except the 4th - the one He told us to "remember."

Where in the Scripture does it say, that, only, the children of Israel were to keep the Ten Commandments? It doesn't.

Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

A greator commandment that is continuously broken by all of us is putting ourselves before the Lord, breaking the 1st, and to me, the most critical of the commandments, for if we do cotinuously break it, every time we do something in our own strengh and will, which all men do, and cannot help but do, they will break all the others as well.

Jesus spoke about what we are to do, but cannot do, except through Him, and it is what He died for.

KJV Matthew 22:36. Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37. Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38. This is the first and great commandment.
39. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

As for the Sabbath, among Christians that is custom, not command, for it was not laid upon us by James at the Antioch council of the Apostles.

KJV Acts 15:28. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;
29. That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Yes, we need to attempt to keep the laws laid upon us by Jesus, but it was our inability to do so in the outer person, much less in the heart, that brought God to give Jesus to us for our propitiation.

No one can or could keep the law. That was the whole point.

Brother, do not lay upon us more than the Lord does, I pray you.

In Christ,

Hi there once more sscr01 :-)

"Yes - they kept the Sabbath before the Ten Commandments."

Becuase they were [b]commanded[/b] to do so.

But again, that has nothing to do with the sabbath day being established as a Law unto mankind.

"Where in the Scripture does it say, that, only, the children of Israel were to keep the Ten Commandments?"

[b][color=000000] And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.[/color][/b] -Exodus 34:27-28

[i]...for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel[/i]

[u]with thee and with Israel[/u]

Besides this, Paul the Apostle says

"For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises..." -Romans 9:3-4

[i]my kinsmen according to the [u]flesh[/u]: Who are Israelites[/i]

[i]to whom pertaineth... the giving of the law[/i]

'Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."'

But also that...

[b][color=660033] If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.[/color][/b]

[b][color=660033]This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.[/color][/b]

Chris

Brother, do not lay upon us more than the Lord does, I pray you.

Heb 7:9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, paid tithes in Abraham.
Heb 7:10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchizedek met him.
Heb 7:11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchizedek, and not be called after the order of Aaron?
Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

The Scriptures do not say, that, only, the children of Israel were to keep the Ten Commandments.

PRESBYTERIAN: "The Christian Sabbath (Sunday) is not in the Scripture, and was not by the primitive church called the Sabbath." - Dwight's theology

CONGREGATIONAL: "There is no command in the Bible requiring us to observe the first day of the week as the Christian Sabbath." - Fowler, Mode and Subjects of Baptism.

LUTHERAN: "The observance of the Lord's day (Sunday) is founded not on any command of God, but on the authority of the church." - "Augsburg Confession of Faith," quoted in Cox's Sabbath Manual, p. 287.

EPISCOPALIAN: "The festival of Sunday, like all other festivals, was always only a human ordinance, and it was far from the intentions of the apostles to establish a divine command in this respect, far from them and from the early apostolic church, to transfer the laws of the Sabbath to Sunday." -Neander, The History of the Christian Religion and Church, p. 186.

METHODIST: "It is true there is no positive command for infant baptism...Nor is ther any for keeping holy the first day of the week." - Rev. Amos Binney, Theological Compend, pp. 180,181, 1902 ed

BAPTIST: Dr Edward T. Hiscox, author of The Baptist Manual, before a group of ministers said, "There was and is a commandment to keep holy the Sabbath day, but that Sabbath day was not Sunday. It will be said, however, and with some show of triumph, that the Sabbath was transferred from the seventh to the first day of the week, with all it's duties, privileges, and sanctions. Earnestly desiring information on this subject, which I have studied for many years, I ask, Where can the record of such a transaction be found? Not in the New Testament, absolutely not. There is no Scriptural evidence of the change of the Sabbath institution from the seventh to the first day of the week.

"Of course," he continues, "I quite well know that Sunday did come into use in early Christian history as a religious day, as we learn from the Christian fathers and other sources. But what a pity that it comes branded with the mark of Paganism, and christened with the name of the sun god, when adopted and sanctioned by the papal apostasy, and bequeathed as a sacred legacy to Protestantism!" - From a paper read before a New York Ministers' Conference, held Nov. 13, 1893.

There was, only, one commandment dealing with time - the 4th. Dan 7:25 says, The Antichrist "thinks to change TIMES and laws."

Rome says, "Of course the Catholic Church claims the change was her act...and the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters." Thomas, H.F., Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath.

Again, Rome says, "It's (Sunday's change for Saturday) the MARK of our authority to OVER-RULE God's law." Father Enright, C.S.S.R., President of Redemptorist College, History of the Sabbath, page 802.

"Sunday is our MARK of authority...The church is ABOVE THE BIBLE and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923.

"The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, 'No! by my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep holy the first day of the week. And, lo! The entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church." Father Enright.

A mark in the forehead, symbolizes worship. A mark in the hand, symbolizes service.

Pope John Paul 11, Pat Robertson, and Jerry Falwell have called for re-instituting the Sunday or "Blue Laws." They are, still, on the books in 26 states. In Virginia, the third infraction meant death!

Does this sound far-fetched?

How about a tree in the garden, determining the fate of all mankind.

Just like in the garden, it is a question of allegiance.

To whom do you give allegiance? To the apostate Catholic/Protestant religious system (as seen in Rev 17), or to the Word of God?

dohzman wrote:

Heb 7:12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

Yes. How can it get any clearer?

Perhaps those who are having difficulty with this--instead of just over and over again insisting that we need to be keeping the 4th commandment as given in the Law of Moses-- should seek to discover what God means by this "change of the law."

Sometimes I think it would be an immense revelation for people to simply understand the difference-- and it is an awesome difference-- between the Old Covenant and the New.

AD

I couldn't care less what the demoninations say.

I care what the Apostles said, for they are our witness, and upon whose word we believe.

As I said, in the New Testament, the Sabbath law was not laid on Christians, but is and has been rigidly kept by the Catholic Churches, and those Protestant Denominations nearest to Catholiscm by [i][b]custom[/b][/i].

Regardless, since we are under grace, and follow what the Apostolic faithers did,(yes, faither's, not Fathers) or at least I do to the best of my ability, I refuse to give into this kind of legalism!

You can if you wish, but you are picking up a burden not laid on you. If you recall, Jesus said that 'His yoke was light'.

In Christ,

The Apostles kept the Sabbath.

You should care more about what Our Creator and Lord said, "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy." Ex 20:8

That is a commandment, not, a request.

"And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day, according to the commandment." Luke 23:56.

Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

"For THIS is the love of God, that we keep his commandments," 1 John 5:3.

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Lu 6:46.

When we don't want to obey God, it is easy to charge "legalism."

"Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of God." Ps 119:1

The law crucifies the old man, and sets the new man free!!! That is what "walking in the Spirit," is all about.

"Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight." Ps 119:35.

The true church keeps His Commandments:

"And the dragon (Satan) was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17.

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12

And, finally, "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

"And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal life, unto all them that obey him." Heb 5:9

Hi sscr01,

"You should care more about what Our Creator and Lord said, "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy." Ex 20:8"

If I may, again, suggest that you give more attention to who God said this to:

[b][color=000000] Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.[/color][/b] -Exodus 31:13

[b][color=000000]And it came to pass in the seventh year, in the fifth month, the tenth day of the month, that certain of the elders of Israel came to inquire of the Lord, and sat before me. Then came the word of the Lord unto me, saying, Son of man, speak unto the elders of Israel, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God; Are ye come to inquire of me? As I live, saith the Lord God, I will not be inquired of by you...

...Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the Lord that sanctify them." [/color][/b] -Ezekiel 20:1-3,12

'Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."'

Again, He said

[b][color=660033]This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.[/color][/b]

Saying also...

[b][color=660033]If ye keep [u]my[/u] commandments, ye shall abide in [u]my[/u] love[/color][/b]

...[b][color=660033]even as [u]I[/u] have kept [u]my Father's commandments[/u], and abide in [u]his[/u] love.[/color][/b]

Jesus also said,

[b][color=660033] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and [u]they follow me[/u][/color][/b]

Chris

sscr01 wrote:
The Apostles kept the Sabbath.

[b][color=990000]I know, they were all Jews.[/color][/b]

You should care more about what Our Creator and Lord said, "Remember the sabbath day to keep it holy." Ex 20:8

That is a commandment, not, a request.

[b][color=990000]True, Brother, but that was given to the Israelites. You may be as legalistic as you like, in whatever denomination you choose to follow, but it is not laid on GENTILES![/color][/b]

"And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day, according to the commandment." Luke 23:56.

[b][color=990000]Again, these were Jews in Judea, not Gentiles![/color][/b]

Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandments."

[b][color=990000]Jesus' commandments were to love the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind, and strength, and our brothers as ourselves.

The Jews couldn't keep the law. I can't keep the Law. You can't keep the Law. The Law was given to reveal sin for it's inescapable hold on us.

Jesus kept the Law for us, fulfilled it, and gave us grace instead.[/color][/b]

"For THIS is the love of God, that we keep his commandments," 1 John 5:3.

[b][color=990000]Jesus died for us because no human being, Jew or Gentile, can keep that law.[/color][/b]

"And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?" Lu 6:46.

[b][color=990000]Again, wasn't this why Jesus went to the cross, because neither Jew nor gentile can do the things which Jesus said?[/color][/b]

When we don't want to obey God, it is easy to charge "legalism."

[b][color=990000]True enough if you aren't trying to walk in the Spirit, which I am. It's not an unwillingness to do so, but an inability to do so, or why would we need Christ?[/color][/b]

"Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of God." Ps 119:1

[b][color=990000]True, and Christ, having walked it for us, being aware of our need for us to have Him do it, now sits at the right hand of the Father. There is no one else who is or can be absolutely undefiled through the Law.[/color][/b]

The law crucifies the old man, and sets the new man free!!! That is what "walking in the Spirit," is all about.

[b][color=990000]I know, that's why I do it to the best of my ability, with the help of the Holy Spirit, and Jesus, who is in me.[/color][/b]

"Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight." Ps 119:35.

[b][color=990000]Amen.[/color][/b]

The true church keeps His Commandments:

[b][color=990000]You sound like a 16th century Jesuit. The entire church is in Christ, or not in the church at all.[/color][/b]

"And the dragon (Satan) was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17.

[b][color=990000]You know, I had noticed that. Hmmmm.[/color][/b]

"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and have the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12

[b][color=990000]In Christ is my all my righteousness. Having none of my own, I rest in Him.[/color][/b]

And, finally, "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

[b][color=990000]Thank you. I will accept that blessing in the righteousness of Jesus Christ, since I have none of my own, nor am I foolish enough to try and get any.[/color][/b]

"And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal life, unto all them that obey him." Heb 5:9

[b][color=990000]Yes, I am aware of that. My obedience is faith, and the only work that is required of me. But I seek the gifts of the Spirit, and the fruits thereof every day of my life.

I spend 7 days a week trying to keep the commandments, and being grateful that my pitiful inability is made up for by Christ.

I also spend 7 days a week studying, worshiping, evangelising, and writing about God.

Do I need rest from God? What kind of sabbath do I need?

Do you want me to take Saturday's off, and watch TV?

Thank you, but I'll stick with what the Apostles laid on the Gentiles, and no more. They were under the direction of the Holy Spirit in a much more powerful way than we are today, more's the pity. And on Saturday's, as usual, I will read, write, study, and evangelize, because that's what God called me to do.

And on any evening of the week that I am not here at SermonIndex, or elsewhere on the net learning as much as I can about God, and if I feel the need, you can find me reading the occasional novel, listening to Christian music, or fellowshipping with other Christians.

So, what kind of sabbath do you want me to keep? My life is a sabbath!

Everyone on this website does the best they can to show their love for Jesus by obeying Him in spirit and deed, but we all rely on Jesus for our salvation, and the Holy Spirit to change us, teach us, and lead us.

But if you want to keep the law, there are 613 of them, and you had better start studying at a synagogue. You'd make a really good Pharisee.

In Christ,

Forrest

P.S. You know, this is a great sermon about legalism! It may be on my site for this Sunday.[/color][/b]

The Sabbath was instituted at Creation and was made for man, not the Jews: Mark 2:27.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments and do them." Ezekiel 36:26,27. This is a promise.

The children of Israel said, that, they could keep the Covenant in their own strength, and failed to do so: "All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient." Exodus 24:7.

When He writes His law in our hearts and minds (Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10), He gives us a new heart and His Spirit and "causes us" to walk in His law.

He is holy. It is impossible to walk "in the Spirit," and continue to transgress His law. When we fall short, the law exposes our sin, in order, that, we might repent. Repentance = change. Not by our might or power, but, by His Spirit, and that is a Spirit-filled walk. This is the path of sanctification. The Holy Spirit will not lead us into sin, or "the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

His Spirit enables us to walk with Him in His law - in righteousness.

Emotions aren't enough. God warns us about following our heart: "Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths. for she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her. Her house is the WAY TO HELL, going down to the chambers of death." Prov 7:25-27.

Peter, James and John thought that they were right, but Jesus said to Peter, "Get thee behind me Satan!" Matt 4:10.

And Jesus said to James and John, when they wanted to imitate Elijah and call fire down from Heaven. "Ye know not what spirit you are of!" Lu 9:55

So, how can you trust in your own heart? We can't. Our trust must be in God's word, alone, or, we will be deceived, just like Peter, James and John.

There is, only, one way, that, we know that we love God and the children of God:

"For THIS is the love of God, THAT we keep His commandments." 1 John 5:3.

"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments." 1 John 5:2.

As I stated before, when Jesus gave us the "Two Greatest Commandments," He was quoting the law:

"And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." Deuteronomy 6:5.

"...but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord." Leviticus 19:18.

These are a summation of the Ten Commandments. If you love the Lord, you will keep the first four. If you love your neighbour as yourself, you will keep the last six.

How did Jesus keep the Sabbath? By worshipping the Father, fellowshipping with believers, casting out demons, healing the sick...

"He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked." 1 John 2:6.

He is our example in all things.

Here is a great promise:

"If thou turn away the foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on MY HOLY DAY: and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words. Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will CAUSE THEE to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father; for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." Isa 58:13,14.

These are not my words, but His.

The Apostles kept the Sabbath.

Hi one more time, sscr01.

"The Sabbath was instituted at Creation and was made for man, not the Jews: Mark 2:27."

Once again, the sabbath was given as a Law, to the [b][color=000000]children of Israel[/color][/b]

[b][color=000000]Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the Lord that doth sanctify you.[/color][/b] -Exodus 31:13

As to God's rest, the Bible says that believers enter into it

[i]For we which have believed do enter into rest...[/i] -Hebrews 4:3

[i] For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.[/i] -Herbrews 4:10

[b][color=660033]Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.[/color][/b]

[b][color=660033]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.[/color][/b]

Chris

So, you are saying, that, we can worship other gods, bow down to graven images, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonour our parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, covet and walk in His Spirit?

How foolish!

"For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither because they are the seed of Abraham , are they all children: but, in Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of promise are counted for seed." Roma 6-8

"Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham." Ga 3:7

"And if ye be Christ's, then are YE Abraham's seed..." Ga 3:29.

The Gospel has, always, been about Spiritual Israel - whether, Jew or, Gentile.

The ceremonial law was fulfilled and terminated. Everything else is for the believer.

Hi sscr01, hopefully for the last time on this.

"So, you are saying, that, we can worship other gods, bow down to graven images, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonour our parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, covet and walk in His Spirit?"

[b][color=000000] Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.[/color][/b]

How foolish!

[b][color=660033]...but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.[/color][/b]

Chris

What you implied was foolish.

So, you are saying, that, we can worship other gods, bow down to graven images, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonour our parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness, covet and walk in His Spirit?

How foolish!

I think it unfair to assert that anyone is saying this. What is being said is that our expression of the Sabbath is fulfilled in a different way than physically resting on Saturday. The word, BTW does not mean "go to church" it means [i]to cease[/i]. So pedantically we have to follow the true meaning of the word in order to prevent confusion. We are resting from our 'works' [i]in Christ[/i]. This is how we fulfill the commandment. We do this 24/7 and not just on Saturday. And no marvel, for even many of the other commandments met with an alteration of their fulfillment also. Covetousness is now idolatry and looking with intent to lust is a breach of Thou shalt not commit adultery. So if we revert to the original 10 Words we also have to dismiss the alterations made to the other commands in the NT.

It is not for us to interpret, but, to obey:

"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labor and DO ALL THY WORK: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God..." Ex 20:8-11.

Again, we are to "walk as He walked." How did Jesus keep the Sabbath?

Worshipping, fellowshipping, resting, casting out demons, healing the sick. In this way, the Sabbath was "made for man."

"Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition." Matt 15:6.

Worshipping, fellowshipping, resting, casting out demons, healing the sick. In this way, the Sabbath was "made for man."

But in what way does this set apart Saturday from every other day? These are things that happen every day of the week.

If it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath and everything a Christian is supposed to do is unto the Lord (including working their job); what is a Christian to cease from if they are truly walking in the Spirit? Their whole life is to the glory of God. Personally I don't have to work on Saturday unless I work around the house. Sunday is a very busy day. SO if we mean physical rest then we are back to what Jesus said about the animal being in the ditch. It is lawful to do good on the Sabbath. If it is not lawful to do on the Sabbath then it is probably not lawful for any day of the week.
;-)

You can rationalize all you want. He commanded us to keep the seventh day Sabbath:

"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day: and call the Sabbath, a delight, the holy of the Lord, honurable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." Isa 58:13,14.

This is quite a promise!

I have given you the information. What you do with it is between you and the Lord.

Brother, Christ is our Sabbath! Even as God cesed from His own works on the seventh day, let us cease from ours and do His. The Israelites were commanded to do this once a week. We having entered into the Rest find it to be our life.

Rest in Him brother

The Sabbath was made for man, not, only, the Jews. Why is it, that, Christians claim to keep the Ten Commandments, until, it comes to the 4th? The, only, one, that He told us to "remember," is the one that we have forgotten. Shall we spiritualize the other nine commandments and be consistent?

It is a day, when we rest from our labors, focus on Him, and minister to others. We shut out all distractions and worship Him, alone.

Over 400 churches from different denominations have returned to the Biblical Sabbath: Baptists, Methodists, Nazarenes, SDA, Church of God, Pentecostals...and more all the time.

For more information on the Sabbath, please visit www.sabbathtruth.com

Jesus, our Creator - the "Lord of the Sabbath!" Mark 2:28.

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! You know the truth brother!

Here, let me post up some SCRIPTURAL SUPPORT FOR THE SABBATH.........

1. After working the first six days of the week in creating this
earth, God rested on the seventh day. Genesis 2:1-3.
2.This stamped that day as God's rest day, or Sabbath day, as
Sabbath day means rest day. To illustrate: When a person is born
on a certain day, that day thus becomes his birthday. So when God
rested upon the seventh day, that day became His rest, or Sabbath,
day.
3.Therefore the seventh day must always be God's Sabbath day.
Can you change your birthday from the day on which you were
born to one on which you were not born? No. Neither can you
change God's rest day to a day on which He did not rest. Hence
the seventh day is still God's Sabbath day.
4. The Creator blessed the seventh day. Genesis 2:3.
5. He sanctified the seventh day. Exodus 20:11.
6. He made it the Sabbath day in the Garden of Eden. Genesis 2:1-3.
8. Jesus says it was made for man, that is, for the race, as the word
man is here unlimited; hence, for the Gentile as well as for the
Jew. Mark 2:27.
9. Not only is the Sabbath made for man, but Jesus said that He
was Lord of the Sabbath. Mark 2:28.
10. It is a memorial of creation. Exodus 20:11; 31:17. Every time
we rest upon the seventh day, as God did at creation, we
commemorate that grand event.
11. It was given to Adam, the head of the human race. Mark 2:27;
Genesis 2:1-3.
12. It is not a Jewish institution, for it was made 2,300 years
before ever there was a Jew.
13. The Bible never calls it the Jewish Sabbath, but always "the
Sabbath of the Lord thy God." Men should be cautious how they
stigmatize God's holy rest day.
14. Evident reference is made to the Sabbath and the seven-day
week all through the patriarchal age. Genesis 2:1-3; 8:10,12;
29:27,28, etc.
15. It was a part of God's law before Sinai. Exodus 16:4,23-29.
16. Then God placed it in the heart of His moral law. Exodus
20:1-17. Why did He place it there if it was not like the other nine
precepts, which all admit to be immutable?
17. The seventh-day Sabbath was commanded by the voice of the
living God. Deuteronomy 4:12,13.
18. Then He wrote the commandment with His own finger.
Exodus 31:18.
19. He engraved it in the enduring stone, indicating its
imperishable nature. Deuteronomy 5:22.
20. It was sacredly preserved in the ark in the holy of holies.
Deuteronomy 10:1-5.
21. God forbade work upon the Sabbath, even in the most
hurrying times. Exodus 34:21.
22. God destroyed the Israelites in the wilderness because they
profaned the Sabbath. Ezekiel 20:12,13.
23. It is the sign of the true God, by which we are to know Him
from the false gods. Ezekiel 20:20.
24. God promised that Jerusalem should stand forever if the Jews
would keep the Sabbath. Jeremiah 17:24,25.
25. He sent them into the Babylonish captivity for breaking it.
Nehemiah 13:18.
26. He destroyed Jerusalem for its violation. Jeremiah 17:27.
27. God has pronounced a special blessing on all the Gentiles who
will keep it. Isaiah 56:6,7.
28. This is in the prophecy which refers wholly to the Christian
dispensation. See Isaiah 56.
29. God has promised to bless all who keep the Sabbath. Isaiah
56:2.
30. The Lord requires us to call it "honourable." Isaiah 58:13
Beware, you who take delight in calling it the "old Jewish
Sabbath," "a yoke of bondage," etc.
31. After the holy Sabbath has been trodden down "many
generations," it is to be restored in the last days. Isaiah 58:12,13.
32. All the holy prophets kept the seventh day.
33. When the Son of God came, He kept the seventh day all His
life. Luke 4:16; John 15:10. Thus He followed His Father's
example at creation. Shall we not be safe in following the example
of both the Father and the Son?
34. The seventh day is the Lord's day. See Revelation 1:10; Mark
2:28; Isaiah 58:13; Exodus 20:10.
35. Jesus was Lord of the Sabbath (Mark 2:28), that is, to love and
protect it, as the husband is the lord of the wife, to love and
cherish her. 1 Peter 3:6.
36. He vindicated the Sabbath as a merciful institution designed
for man's good. Mark 2:23-28.
37. Instead of abolishing the Sabbath, He carefully taught how it
should be observed. Matthew 12:1-13.
38. He taught His disciples that they should do nothing upon the
Sabbath day but what was "lawful." Matthew 12:12.
39. He instructed His apostles that the Sabbath should be
prayerfully regarded forty years after His resurrection. Matthew
24:20.
40. The pious women who had been with Jesus carefully kept the
seventh day after His death. Luke 23:56.
41. Thirty years after Christ's resurrection, the Holy Spirit
expressly calls it "the sabbath day." Acts 13:14.
42. Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles, called it the "sabbath day" in
A.D. 45. Acts 13:27. Did not Paul know? Or shall we believe
modern teachers, who affirm that it ceased to be the Sabbath at the
resurrection of Christ?
43. Luke, the inspired Christian historian, writing as late as A.D.
62, calls it the "sabbath day." Acts 13:44.
44. The Gentile converts called it the Sabbath. Acts 13:42.
45. In the great Christian council, A.D. 49, in the presence of the
apostles and thousands of disciples, James calls it the "sabbath
day." Acts 15:21.
46. It was customary to hold prayer meetings upon that day. Acts
16:13.
47. Paul read the Scriptures in public meetings on that day. Acts
17:2,3.
48. It was his custom to preach upon that day. Acts 17:2,3.
49. The Book of Acts alone gives a record of his holding eightyfour
meetings upon that day. See Acts 13:14,44; 16:13; 17:2;
18:4,11.
50. There was never any dispute between the Christians and the
Jews about the Sabbath day. This is proof that the Christians still
observed the same day that the Jews did.
51. In all their accusations against Paul, they never charged him
with disregarding the Sabbath day. Why did they not, if he did not
keep it?
52. But Paul himself expressly declared that he had kept the law.
"Neither against the law of the Jews, neither against the temple,
nor yet against Caesar, have I offended any thing at all." Acts
25:8. How could this be true if he had not kept the Sabbath?
53. The Sabbath is mentioned in the New Testament fifty-nine
times, and always with respect, bearing the same title it had in the
Old Testament, "the sabbath day."
54. Not a word is said anywhere in the New Testament about the
Sabbath's being abolished, done away, changed, or anything of the
kind.
55. God has never given permission to any man to work upon it.
Reader, by what authority do you use the seventh day for common
labor?
56. No Christian of the New Testament, either before or after the
resurrection, ever did ordinary work upon the seventh day. Find
one case of the kind, and we will yield the question. Why should
modern Christians do differently from Bible Christians?
57. There is no record that God has ever removed His blessing or
sanctification from the seventh day?
58. As the Sabbath was kept in Eden before the fall, so it will be
observed eternally in the new earth after the restitution. Isaiah
66:22,23.
59. The seventh-day Sabbath was an important part of the law of
God, as it came from His own mouth, and was written by His own
finger upon stone at Sinai. See Exodus 20. When Jesus began His
work, He expressly declared that He had not come to destroy the
law. "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the
prophets." Matthew 5:17.
60. Jesus severely condemned the Pharisees as hypocrites for
pretending to love God, while at the same time they made void
one of the Ten Commandments by their tradition. The keeping of
Sunday is only a tradition of men.

AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! AMEN! You know the truth brother!

We have already demonstrated that Sabbath is expressed in our resting in Christ from our works for righteousness. I want to copy over from the first thread on this so folk have a balanced answer.

*******

We do not establish the Sabbath in the sense you are trying to convey. I am sure the teachers at Galatia were quite crafty also; but the fact is Christ is our Sabbath Rest. The Sabbath is also a shadow of things to come, but the Body is of Christ.

Hebrews 4:1-16 describes how in Christ we have entered into God's rest from works. This is our observance of Sabbath today. We have shabbat from our own works for righteousness. Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for everyone that believes. The penalty for breaking the Sabbath was death. The same holds true today. If we are justified by the works of the law Christ shall profit us nothing. The expression of our fulfillment of the sabbath as we walk in the Spirit is that we rest in the finished work of the Cross. A Christian is compelled to observe Sabbbath in no other sense than this.

Ceremonial Law:

1. Is called, "the law contained in ordinances." Eph 2:15.
2. Was spoken by Moses. Lev 1:1-3.
3. Was written by Moses in a book. 11 Chron 35:12.
4. Was placed in the side of The Ark. Deut 31:24-26.
5. Was nailed to the cross. Col 2:14.
6. Was abolished by Christ. Eph 2:15.

10 Commandments:

1. Is called, the "royal law." James 2:8.
2. Was spoken by God. Deut 4:12,13.
3. Was written with the finger of God. Ex 31:18.
4. Was placed inside The Ark. Ex 40:20; Heb 9:4.
5. Is to "stand forever and ever." Ps 111:7,8.
6. Was not destroyed by Christ. Matt 5:17,18.

The Jews recognize that the first laws given by God were the Noachide laws. This was followed by the Ten Words and that became the 613 Laws. . Add to that the Oral law which eventually became the Talmud. If we look at the requirements for Gentile proselytes they were required to keep the Noachide laws. Acts fifteen strips this to just a hand full of commands. It is what was good to the Holy Spirit and to the Apostles. The Royal Law according to James 2:8 is to "Love your neighbor as yourself." This is the sum of all the law and the prophets. It has nothing to do with keeping the Sabbath in the literal sense.

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. (Col. 2:16, 17)

One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. (Romans 14:5)

Christ is the end of the Law to everyone who believes. This is not to say we are 'lawless' but it is certain that we will get no closer to the glory of God by merely re-establishing Shabbat as the formal day of Christian worship. First century Christians observed Shabbat on Saturday and continued on in fellowship with believers on the first day of the week. This practice ended when the [i]Perushim[/i] (Pharisees) established the "Birkat Ha Minim" (Curse of the Christian Heretics)

Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come. (I Cor. 16:2)

This is clearly Sunday. Sabbath began at the first star appearing on Friday night and ended when the first star appeared on Saturday. It is the Jews who believe that Messiah would return if every Jew on earth would observe Sabbath at one time. This is a tradition.

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? (Gal. 3:3)

This is the question above all others. The people in Galatia had to endure the teaching of folk who came in believing they could improve the spiritual climate of the church by bringing the people back under certain aspects of the Mosiac law. Circumcision was one of them. Tithe is one that is often preached also. Sabbath is another. But it is impossible to find a deeper spirituality in coming under the Law again. Revival will not come because the people start observing Shabbat- it would actually be a step backwards.

The Ark represented the throne of God. As you entered the Tabernacle the sense was of ascending into heaven. Imagine the horizontal structure standing vertically. The veil prevented man from entering the throne room. It was 4 inches thick woven of one seam. Who could enter? Some say that God's glory drew the High Priest through the veil with the blood in the container in his hands. Yet, it was a clear barrier. This was true for the vast majority of departed souls as well as coming into the throne room of grace in prayer. There is a liberty that we have now that did not exist before. Beside of this the key to the New Covenant is the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven.

Having begun in the Spirit will we now improve upon our Spiritual state by coming under certain aspects of the Law? Certainly not. The key to revival is a fresh infilling of the Holy Spirit that causes us to live out the personality of God contained within the Law. Christ is our Sabbath rest. We have ceased from our own works as God did from His. If a person wants to observe Sabbath that is their own perogative. But to preach it as essential to spiritual blessing is to incur the wrath of Galatians 1. Paul said he wished that they were even cut-off that 'trouble' you. If I want to observe Sabbath I can. But I must not suggest that you 'must' or that somehow I am the more 'spiritual' or pleasing to God in the doing. It is a matter of conscience.

The 10 Commandments Came at Mount Sinai. Paul deals with this so to make it absolutely clear.

Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. (Galatians 4:24)

That which was given at Sinai is said to be to bondage. The covenant that contained the Ten Commandments genders to bondage. It cannot meet the need of man's redemption. It can only expose the law of Sin that was (or is) in our members. We have to die to the Law so we can be espoused to Christ. The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life. Adding any of the Old Covenant to the New only takes away from the perfection of the New. The goal is the Fruit of the Spirit. That is the goal. The Ten Commandments cannot take us there. Only the fulness of the Holy Spirit in us- as we rest in Christ can accomplish what the Law never could.

55. God has never given permission to any man to work upon it. Reader, by what authority do you use the seventh day for common
labor?

Earlier we demonstrated that:

Then said Jesus unto them, I will ask you one thing; Is it lawful on the sabbath days to do good, or to do evil? to save life, or to destroy it? (Luke 6:9)

And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by Him. (Col. 3:17)

Whatever you do, do it wholeheartedly as though you were working for your real master and not merely for humans. (Col. 3:23 GWT)

If we do everything to the glory of God how could it be possible to violate the Sabbath for a Christian? If our physical labors are all God-ward in that sense- how can we possibly violate the Sabbath by physical efforts? The only way we can violate the Sabbath in our times, as believers is to cease resting in the finished work of the cross and try to take up the commandments of the law as you are both proposing. To do what you are saying is to break the Sabbath in it's ultimate sense.

No Christian of the New Testament, either before or after the resurrection, ever did ordinary work upon the seventh day. Find one case of the kind, and we will yield the question. Why should
modern Christians do differently from Bible Christians?

This is because Sacred and Secular are now one and the same for believers. There is no such thing as 'ordinary labor'. Everything we do is to be done as unto the Lord. We are bought with a price and we are not our own. Our whole life is supposed to be a living sacrifice to God (Romans 12). Not just on Saturday, but every day.

The seventh-day Sabbath was an important part of the law of God, as it came from His own mouth, and was written by His own finger upon stone at Sinai. See Exodus 20. When Jesus began His
work, He expressly declared that He had not come to destroy the law. "Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets." Matthew 5:17.

And you will recall that being Lord of the Sabbath He was constantly being harassed for doing things on the Sabbath. When the Pharisees fled to Jamnia during the destruction of the Temple they started what today is Rabbinic Judaism. One of the key aspects of their expression of Christ-less religion is their emphasis on the Sabbath and not doing 'physical work'. The enemy has sought to keep the full understanding of Sabbath locked behind a host of related Sabbath 'no work' teachings in order to cloud the truth of what the Sabbath really means. It is not about resting from physical common work- it is about resting in Christ. And we will rest in Him for all eternity (Heb 4).

There is no way to substitute resting on Saturday for resting in Christ.

Hi everyone.

I'd like to share something if I may in regards to how we handle and examine the Scriptures.

When people qoute from the Bible, and especially if they are attemtping to make a [b]proof[/b] of something or another, it may be nescessary for us to go back and examine the verses that are being qouted and see if anything else is there in the surrounding passages that will help us to understand what is being said more fully. One reason for this is because the verse may have been removed from its context, or other verses which define or limit it, or make the meaning more clear in some way, may be left out, for whatever reason. When that happens, a verse may appear to support some postion or other, when it doesn't.

An extreme example of this is the teacher of the [i]new age[/i] religon that I used to follow before my conversion. In his writings He qouted verses from the Bible in isolation to support his teachings on meditation. Another example of this could be someone qouting 1 Cor 15:29 to support their practice of baptizing people on behalf of the dead.

In our thread here, sscr01 says

You can rationalize all you want. He commanded us to keep the seventh day Sabbath:

"If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day: and call the Sabbath, a delight, the holy of the Lord, honurable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." Isa 58:13,14.

This is quite a promise!

If we were to read this passage in isolation, and take the comments that are made along with it, you might get the impression that the believer in Christ is here promised something for observing the 7th day sabbath.

But look at what is missing in the qoute here, from verse one of the chapter:

[b][color=000000] Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins.[/color][/b]

[i]...the [b]house of Jacob[/b] their sins[/i]

See that? When we go back and look at who God is actually adressing in this passage through the prophet, some things fall into place that would not appear otherwise. It makes sense here then, that God would make a promise of blessing to [b]those people He had covenanted with[/b] regarding thier obedience to His Laws, in particular here regarding observance of the 7th day sabbath.

Way back in the book of Deuteronomy, in chapter 28 we read:

[b][color=000000]And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth[/color][/b]

[i]...the Lord thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth[/i]

Looking at that last phrase here, there is a striking similarity to it and what we read in this passage that sscr01 has qouted from Isaiah chapter 58...

[i]...and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth[/i]

And this makes sense, becuase again, verse one of chapter 58 tells us that these things were being spoken to [b]the house of Jacob[/b], the same people God had made a covenant with through Moses, and to whom he had promised such blessings upon their obedience to His commands, one of which was observance of the 7th day sabbath.

[b][color=000000]And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. [/color][/b] -Exodus 34:28

Now brothers and sisters, I am not meaning to imply here that passages like this, or even this one itself, do not or can not have an application to us. I certainly believe they do. But as to the nature and extent of those applications, I say we must use caution and examine them in their context and in the context of scripture as a whole. This example before us no exception.

Chris

Jesus severely condemned the Pharisees as hypocrites for pretending to love God, while at the same time they made void
one of the Ten Commandments by their tradition. The keeping of
Sunday is only a tradition of men.

Acts 20 and I Cor. 16 deal with the churches gathering on Sunday the first day of the week. Mark 16:9 and a host of other significant NT events took place on Sunday.

Again Paul said that some esteem every day alike and others one day above another. Either way they do what they do as unto the Lord. We are to allow for these differences in convictions within the Body; but we are not to allow them to become doubtful disputations. We need to be charitable to one another and allow God to lead. And when He leads it is always towards a life walking in the Spirit, yielding the fruit of the Spirit, and living a charitable life against which there is no law.

The New Covenant is the Old Covenant written in our hearts and minds. The same Covenant, in a different place:

"A NEW HEART also will I give you, and a NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put MY SPIRIT within you, and CAUSE YOU to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments and do them." Ezek 36:26,27.

When we have a new heart, and His Spirit within us, He enables us to walk in His commandments - when we walk in the Spirit, we do not sin, or, "transgress the law." 1 John 3:4.

We are to die, daily and crucify the flesh with it's passions and lusts, so that, the new man might be set free! There is no bondage here, but, liberty!

As I said before, when Jesus gave us the "Two Greatest Commandments," He was quoting the law:

"And thou shalt love the Lord with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." Deut 6:5

"...thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself." Lev 19:18.

These two commandments, are a summation of The Ten. If we love the Lord, supremely, we will keep the first four. If we love our neighbour as ourselves, we will, also, keep the last six.

"By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2,3.

Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

"And this is love, that we walk after his commandments." 2 John 6

"And hereby we do know that we know him, IF we keep his commandments. He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not his commandments is a LIAR, and the truth (Jesus: John 14:6; the law: Ps 119:142; and ALL His commandments: Ps 119:151) is not in him." 1 John 2:3,4.

This Scripture says, that, we may say, that, we know Him, but, if we do not keep his commandments, we are liars, and do not have His Covenant written in our hearts and minds - the New Covenant. Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10.

"Who forgiveth all thine iniquities: who healeth all thy diseases...As far as the east is from the west, so far hath he removed our transgressions from us...To such as keep his covenant, and to those that REMEMBER his commandments to do them." Ps 103.

"And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal life, unto all them that obey Him." Heb 5:9.

"And the dragon (Satan) was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus." Rev 12:17

"Here is the patience of the SAINTS: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus." Rev 14:12.

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; to him that overcometh will I give to eat of the TREE OF LIFE, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7.

"Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the TREE OF LIFE, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

The Apostle John at the very end of the Book of books, makes a connection between keeping His commandments and entering Heaven.

Yes, "HERE ARE THEY THAT KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.." - Revelation

The bible shows that the Sabbath was made in the CREATION WEEK, it was made for ALL MANKIND and also, Collosians mentions the abolishing of SABBATHS. Plural. It's refering to the sabbath festivals.

Now, you may say, but othe translations mention SABBATH, singuler.

Well, look before that verse, it mentions HANDWRITING of ORDINANCES that were AGAINST us.

However, the bible has many verses where even JESUS said that the SABBATH was NOT against us but to HELP us. It also was not a handwritten ordinance by MOSES, it was by God!

-Matt

"And this is love, that we walk after his commandments." 2 John 6

I am trying to see how you keep making the connection to the teachings of our Lord; i.e., "His commandments" and the Ten Commandments given at Sinai?

Keeping the Ten Commandments is not the same thing as walking in the Spirit. Jesus pointed to the rich young ruler as an example. He kept the commandments and yet God had a controversy with him. That controversy centered in his possessions. His unwillingness to turn loose of his things revealed within him the very spirit of disobedience that works in the children of wrath. It's not about following 10 commandments; it is about being utterly submitted to God by nature. This can only come about through a John 3:3 born again experience.

Our expression of the Sabbath today is light years beyond resting from so-called (but non-existent) ordinary labor. Our rest in Christ and our baptism into Him is the full expression of Sabbath. This is no different than Him being our 'covering' or any other fulfillment of a type and shadow of the Old Testament. We don't lay hands on a scape goat today and confess our sins- Christ has fulfilled that. God has carried away our sins through the cross.

At the root of this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the Gospel and the NEW Covenant. He taketh away the first that He may establish the second. Jeremiah 31:33 deals with God writing His Torah within our hearts. Some Messianic Jews will tell you that that includes much of the 613 Laws. I disagree. What God is seeking to do is establish within us the personality of Christ.

This is the 'work' that we believe on the Son of God. And that 'work' is to 'rest' in Him that we might be found in Him not having our own righteousness; but that which is of the faith of Christ, the righteousness of God by faith.

The bible shows that the Sabbath was made in the CREATION WEEK, it was made for ALL MANKIND and also, Collosians mentions the abolishing of SABBATHS. Plural. It's refering to the sabbath festivals.

This cannot be possible because the Colossians were never under- nor did they practice those festivals as many of them required a pilgrimage to Jerusalem to fulfill; especially Yom Kipper the Day of AtOneMent. Paul wanted to go to Jerusalem before Pentecost, etc. Why? Because folk journeyed to Jerusalem for the feasts. The Colossians came out of paganism for the most part. Paul magnified his office as the Apostle to the Gentiles.

The Judaizers would come around and compel the Gentiles to live as do the Jews. Circumcision, etc. Paul withstood Peter to the face for doing this. Meat, drink, new moon, and Sabbath days are all just that. This is the simplest expression of Judaism. Don't eat non-kosher foods, keep the sabbath, and get circumcised. Paul said that if we build again the things that we destroyed we make ourselves a transgressor. The whole of Hebrews of written to prevent the Jews from going back into a form of the Mosaic system. The warnings are numerous and dreadful. Paul said, "I am afraid of you lest I have labored in vain! Ye who come under the law have fallen from grace."

So I will stand fast in the liberty with which Christ has made me free and will not be entangled again with the yoke of bondage; i.e. the covenant given at Sinai. This was the Ten Commandments. I will live a life in the Spirit fulfilling the law by nature by walking in love.

However, the bible has many verses where even JESUS said that the SABBATH was NOT against us but to HELP us. It also was not a handwritten ordinance by MOSES, it was by God!

This is a serious theological error that I encounter from time to time when folk want to discount Moses or something. The fact is "All scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for reproof and doctrine." If it is in the Canon the writer was carried along by the Holy Spirit in authoring it. This is why red letter bibles are nonsense. The red words are no more inspired than the black. It is all God breathed.

The Sabbath was the easiest commandment to fulfill. All the person had to do before the New Covenant is cease from working. The pharisees put their fences around this commandment and a person almost had to lie in bed all day. Yet, to break it under the old covenant was the death penalty. Now imagine; a person is offered a day of rest with pay (as God kept sending Manna for Sabbath after the flight from Egypt) and the people rebelled against it. Humans who are often lazy by nature refused to take a day off with pay. Thay is absolute evidence of the Law of Sin being in our members. No matter how self-helping the command was- because God commanded it the people kicked against it. Amazing!

Even so now. God is saying, "REST in Christ." You don't have to work to be saved- just trust in Him and rest in Him. But what do folk do? They are bent on work, work, work. Touch not, taste not, handle not, etc. This is the jest of many of the cults. Works based salvation. Why would a people rebel against entering into God's rest? I think it is evidence of something.

Hi everyone.

Brother Robert shared,

"I am trying to see how you keep making the connection to the teachings of our Lord; i.e., "His commandments" and the Ten Commandments given at Sinai?

Keeping the Ten Commandments is not the same thing as walking in the Spirit."

If I may add in regards to the distinction between the Ten Commandments and walking after the Spirit...

The Lord Jesus said

[b][color=660033] My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me[/color][/b]

even following Him into a field....

[b][color=000000] At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.[/color][/b]

After being charged with crime by the Pharisees, He said to them

[b][color=660033]But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.[/color][/b]

Paul the Apostle wrote, saying that God had made them...

[b][color=000000]...able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.[/color][/b]

[i]...not of the letter, but of the spirit[/i]

It would seem that, because the Pharisees only judged matters according to the letter of the Law, they erred, even attempting to condemn their Lawgiver and charing Him with guilt.

[i]...the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life[/i]

and Paul goes on to say of the Ten Commandments that it was...

[i]...the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones[/i]

Do those who appeal to the Ten Comandments as [b]their Law[/b] at the same time, do they neglect the keeping of the rest of the Law?

Notice how the Lord Jesus reffered to [i]their Law[/i]

[b][color=660033] It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true...[/color][/b]

[b][color=660033] Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?[/color][/b]

[i]your law[/i]...He says

more...

cont'...

The scripture does not seperate the Ten Commandments, [b]or the 7th day Sabbath[/b] from the entirety of the Law:

[b][color=000000]And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.[/color][/b] - Exodus 34:27-28

Those who make their appeals to the sabbath day from the Ten Commandments, do they appeal to how the law prescribed it to be kept as well...

for intsance...

[b][color=000000] Ye shall kindle no fire throughout your habitations upon the sabbath day.[/color][/b] -Exodus 34:28

[b][color=000000]And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. And The Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.[/color][/b] -Numbers 15:32-36

This was not a tradition of man, it was what...[b][color=000000]the Lord commanded Moses[/color][/b]

Once again,

The scripture does not seperate the Ten Commandments, [b]or the 7th day Sabbath[/b] from the entirety of the Law.

Those who appeal to the keeping of the 7th day Sabbath from the Ten Commandments, do they also appeal to God's commands on [b]how to keep it[/b]?

Speaking about circumcision, which the Scripture, not man's suppositions, say was indeed given before the Law, Paul warns...

[b][color=000000] Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.[/color][/b]

[i]...whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace[/i]

Chris

...whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace

The bible shows that the Sabbath was made in the CREATION WEEK, it was made for ALL MANKIND and also, Collosians mentions the abolishing of SABBATHS. Plural. It's refering to the sabbath festivals.

This thought that Paul was referring to sabbath festivals seems puzzling to me.
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
(Col 2:16)
It seems that the word translated 'sabbath days' in the KJV has the weekly sabbath in view. The phrase "a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days" refers to the annual, monthly, and weekly holy days of the Jews. If Paul were referring to special ceremonial dates of rest in that passage, why would he have used the word "Sabbath?" He had already mentioned the ceremonial dates when he spoke of holydays and new moons.

In Christ,

Ron

The scripture does not seperate the Ten Commandments, or the 7th day Sabbath from the entirety of the Law.

[i]And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel...[/i]

To continue this point..

The word which is translated [b]tenor[/b], according to Strong's is

H6310
ôּä
peh
peh
From H6284; the mouth (as the means of blowing), whether literally or figuratively (particularly speech); specifically edge, portion or side; adverbially (with preposition) according to: - accord (-ing as, -ing to), after, appointment, assent, collar, command (-ment), X eat, edge, end, entry, + file, hole, X in, mind, mouth, part, portion, X (should) say (-ing), sentence, skirt, sound, speech, X spoken, talk, tenor, X to, + two-edged, wish, word.

[i]the mouth...[/i]

According to this definition, this then was [i]the mouth[/i] of the Covenant which God had made with the [b][color=000000]children of Israel[/color][/b], which if I understand this passage correctly, was the Ten Commandments...

[i]...And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.[/i]

Moses was the mediator of the Covenant of the Law.

Jesus is the mediator of the New Covenant. He said...

[b][color=660033]My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me[/color][/b]

[i]My sheep hear my voice[/i]

Is this not the mouth of the New Covenant?

And he also said...

[b][color=660033]I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.[/color][/b]

Paul the Apostle upon his coversion was told...

[b][color=000000] The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.[/color][/b]

[i]...shouldest hear the voice of his mouth[/i]

And he says of himself and the other Apostles, that they were...

[b][color=000000]...able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.[/color][/b]

And the Lord Jesus said...

[b][color=660033] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.[/color][/b]

and also...

[b][color=660033]Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.[/color][/b]

but then He also warned the religous leaders...

[b][color=660033]Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust.[/color][/b]

Chris

I feel to add briefly here to those who may read what I have written and charge me with promoting lawlessness, the Lord Jesus taught of those who were born of the Spirit...

[b][color=660033] The wind bloweth where it listeth...

...so is every one that is born of the Spirit.[/color][/b]

Or, as other translations put it...

[i]The wind bloweth where [b]it will[/b][/i].

Chris

EDIT I should have added this also, that the scripture says [i] For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.[/i]

Jesus fulfilled the law.

How did He keep the Sabbath? Worshipping the Father, fellowshipping with believers, teaching, healing the sick and casting out devils...and, so should we. He was/is our living example in all things.

When Moses struck the rock twice, in disobedience, God charged him with unbelief. Num 20:12 The disobedient children of Israel didn't enter the Promised Land, because of unbelief. Heb 3:19. Jesus could not do many works in Nazareth, because of their unbelief. Matt 13:58. Heb 3:12 calls it an "EVIL heart of unbelief." Unbelief is rebellion against God.

Why? "...he that believeth not God hath made him a liar." 1 John 5:10.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Rom 3:31.

When Bible figures excercised faith, it was, always, connected with obedience to the will of God.

"By faith...Abraham obeyed." Heb 11:8.

"And if ye be Christ's, then are YE Abraham's seed..." Ga 3:28.

Only, if we obey His Word!

How did He keep the Sabbath? Worshipping the Father, fellowshipping with believers, teaching, healing the sick and casting out devils...and, so should we. He was/is our living example in all things.

I was wondering today (being Saturday and all) if our debate of this issue would actually have been a breach of the Sabbath under the law? Our thoughts should be God-wards perhaps. I think the danger would be in almost worshiping the Sabbath itself.

Jesus clearly said it is OK to do good on the Sabbath even if we take the lesser literal approach. The priests had to do their jobs on Sabbath. A male child had to be circumcised if it were the 8th day from it's birth. Folk regularly helped their distressed livestock. If Sunday was shifted to Saturday in my life it would make a mockery of the word 'Shabbat'; because I don't seem to cease hardly for an hour from 7:30 AM until 8:30 PM. It is the most stress filled day of the week. My Sunday would certainly be a violation of Sabbath under the Old Covenant as it would be with many Christians. :-?

Colossians 2:13-17 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Jesus Christ Himself is our Sabbath. We are to now remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy. We are His body the Church and every day is a Sabbath unto Him, every moment is a Sabbath to Him. We are Holy because He is Holy. Do what in remembrance of Him? Take in His body and blood, this is now our Sabbath and our worship.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.

Remember His day and Keep it Holy. That is 24-7. He is our Sabbath and all in all.

In Christ our Sabbath: Phillip

This passage in Colossians refers to the ceremonial law: meat, drink, sabbath feast days,circumcision, unclean meats, which pointed to the sacrifice of Jesus. The ceremonial law was fulfilled. That is why, we, no longer, sacrifice animals.

This has nothing to do with God's Covenant with man - the Ten Commandments.

Sscr01 wrote,

This has nothing to do with God's Covenant with man - the Ten Commandments.

[b][color=000000] And the Lord said unto Moses, Write thou these words: for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant with thee and with Israel. And he was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments.[/color][/b] -Exodus 34:27-28

[b][color=000000]And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments[/color][/b]

[i]...for after the tenor of these words I have made a covenant [u]with thee and with Israel[/u][/i]

[b][color=000000]...with thee and with Israel[/color][/b]

Would like to add a little bit more of what the scripture says about those who God made the covenant of the Law with if I may...

[b][color=000000]For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the Lord our God is in all things that we call upon him for? And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?[/color][/b] -Deuteronomy 4: 7-8

Is asked here "What nation?"

[b][color=000000]For thou art an holy people unto the Lord thy God: the Lord thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.[/color][/b] -Deuteronomy 7:6

They are identified as :A special people, above all people that were upon the earth.

[b][color=000000]Thou shalt therefore keep the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which I command thee this day, to do them.[/color][/b] -Deuteronomy 7:11

As to what was given them..

There is here mentioned...

commandments

statutes

and judgements.

And the Apostolic testimony is

[b][color=000000]For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises[/color][/b] -Romans 9:3-4

Paul's brethren, according the flesh, who were Israelites.

Chris

Christinyou wrote:
Colossians 2:13-17 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

Jesus Christ Himself is our Sabbath. We are to now remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy. We are His body the Church and every day is a Sabbath unto Him, every moment is a Sabbath to Him. We are Holy because He is Holy. Do what in remembrance of Him? Take in His body and blood, this is now our Sabbath and our worship.

Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.

Remember His day and Keep it Holy. That is 24-7. He is our Sabbath and all in all.

In Christ our Sabbath: Phillip

Precisely! This is why I can take communion daily, and rest in Jesus, and yet do His will, day by day, whether it be ordinary labor unto Jesus, or specific labor unto Jesus.

I will be frank and say I barely do any ordinary labor, on any day, not being able, but I do my own cooking, and that was forbidden on the Sabbath.

Thank you, Phillip, for being so specific on sonething so critical to any Sabbath of a Christian - Communion.

Blessings,

Forrest

Christians claim, to keep the Ten Commandments, until, it comes to the fourth - the, only, one He told us to "remember."

If Jesus isn't the "Lord of the Sabbath," (Mk 2:28) who is?

The Great Apostasia is upon us:

Jesus said, "And because iniquity (lawlessness) shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold." Matt 24:12.

Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

Please visit www.sabbathtruth.com.

Christians claim, to keep the Ten Commandments, until, it comes to the fourth - the, only, one He told us to "remember."

If Jesus isn't the "Lord of the Sabbath," (Mk 2:28) who is?

The Great Apostasia is upon us:

Jesus said, "And because iniquity (lawlessness) shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold." Matt 24:12.

Jesus said, "If ye love me, keep my commandments."

We have answered these issues well and given well reasoned answers.

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. [u]One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike.[/u] Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

There are two types of people here as pertains to the honoring of days. One person believes all days are alike and one believes some are above the others. I esteem every day alike. You esteem Sabbath over the other days.

To our own Master we stand or fall and are not to judge one another. The problem arises when I tell you you [u]can't[/u] keep the Sabbath or you are dishonoring God or you tell me that I [u]must[/u] keep the Sabbath or I am dishonoring God. I recognize that Christ is the end of a literal Sabbath to those who believe and you do not accept this. Answer? [i]Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. [/i] My conscience affirms my position. Your conscience affirms yours. We are both fully persuaded in our own minds of our position. That is what matters. You regard the day as to the Lord and I regard the day 'not' unto the Lord; but whether we live or die we are the Lords.

He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks. For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself. (14:6, 7)

If I were to come to your house and you were honoring the literal Sabbath I would not go intentionally work to cause offense. But in our individual lives we cannot walk around trying to please each others conscience. There is no telling what our lives would be like. It would be madness. Actually, it is a boundaries issue. Folk get all bound up trying to please each others conscience. God never told us to do that; He told us not to lay a stumbling block before each other. At the end of the day we have to allow each other the liberty of conscience. God will ultimately judge each of us. For now we have to walk in what we believe is God's will; and for me this does not include observation of a literal Sabbath; but a resting in Christ as my Sabbath rest from my own works for righteousness.