"Did Jesus Get Frustrated" ??

The answer is yes he did get frustrated at many things - of which i will outline some

But first yes - i said some things in frustration in my post ( book of Revelation ) - i admit this.

But if that constitutes Sin - then yes i do repent before the whole message board ( okay )

But back on topic jesus got frustated at the fig tree ... when he was a hungered and it bore no fruit, so he cursed it - and it withered up and died as we well know.

Jesus got frustrated with the pharisee's towards the end of his minisrty he called them snakes and hypocrites.

He ( Jesus ) got frustrated and exasperated with the Jews over their calloused indifference concerning the man with the (withered hand).

In fact scripture says he looked about on them with "ANGER" ... DUE TO THE HARDNESS OF THEIR HEARTS !!

But some would say that's Jesus and he never put a foot wrong - true ... but look at Paul he told the council that God would smash the man that was commanded to smite him - calling him a whited wall

We all live in the body of the flesh, and this pre-disposes - all of us to exasperation and at times ( even ) frustrations.

Paul was afraid he had bestowed labours at galatia in vain, because they had embraced false teaching - AND WENT BACK TO law.

But that said it doesn't neccesitate that such things always and are the equivalent of sin, or pride, or bitterness.

The two prophets in revelation chapter eleven, recieve the word as honey - but it is bitternes in there bellies ( because they have a message of judgement )

Ezekiel in the first few chapters is also recorded as being lifted away by the spirit - and went in the bitterness of his own spirit

So did these men Sin - or is that venting from flesh ... on their part??

Anyone care to go on record before God? to say that this (also) is sinful bitterness on their part?

Sometimes it's better and wiser ... to HOLD OFF - unless you are certain you have the correct position and understanding regarding literal and symbolic readings ( specially that of revealation )

Where mayhem and confusion has reigned for centuries over ... interpretations, which cannot be debated as being true ( the confusion that is )

Conversely God does and shall reveal his (secrets to his servants the prophets ... and as The book came to John by revelation - then likewise much of it's understanding and interpreation will be known by (revelation)

For it is by spiritual illumination and enlightenment by the spirit of truth - that any of us recieves anything !!

John the baptist said it true - when he spoke these words to the enquiring minds that came for answers " a man can recieve NOTHING except it be GIVEN him from HEAVEN.

Just a slight correction if I may.

It is in Revelation 10 that John eats the little book, not the two witnesses.

God bless.

But if that constitutes Sin - then yes i do repent before the whole message board ( okay )

Sounds like you are looking for either justification or an out and are disinterested at really looking at this truthfully. Being that you find your own personal exasperation\\frustration something to be justified and attempting to square it with not only the Lord but by way of examples of others you are managing into this interpretation ...

Anyone care to go on record before God? to say that this (also) is sinful bitterness on their part?

Think you have a completely foreign idea about what constitutes frustration on our level and that of the Lord Jesus. The Lord was not out of control nor frustrated, nor exasperated as in the likes of us. Our frustrations are generally bore out of not getting that which we presuppose, that which we place expectations upon others. The Lord showed forth a true, righteous indignation in measure, [i]for He knew all men[/i], but to compare this with yours or mine on frustrations couldn't be further from the truth.

It is a colossal mistake to equate those things Jesus stated as coming from a Spirit of maladjustment, such as ours. Everything from being [i]'slow to hear, of little faith'[/i] to the cursing of the fig tree are not the emotions of instability and frustration as we know it, you are attempting to do what unfortunately too many have done and that is to bring the Lord of all things down to our level and then to justify our conduct as being equal to His, it just doesn't wash at all.

[b]Frustration
FRUSTRA'TION, n.[/b] The act of frustrating; disappointment; defeat; as the frustration of one's attempt or design.

[b]Exasperation
EXASPERA'TION, n.[/b] Irritation; the act of exciting violent anger; provocation.

1. Extreme degree of anger; violent passion.

2. Increase of violence or malignity; exacerbation.

It is however interesting that you brought this up. Right now and going back to yesterday afternoon this area of frustration has been full tilt due to present circumstances. These definitions are accurate and despite whatever real or imagined justification I think I might have it took some soul searching to recognize that there was a creeping bitterness, an emotional, even [i]violence[/i] beginning to brew, certainly pride. Not to go into particulars but will give this much ... part of it is on the level of being patronized and belittled. What it did bring to mind after holding down these things to a place of humility, acceptance, despite my inner reaction, was to look at Jesus before the Sanhedrin and then before the voices shouting for His crucifixion. It is a far cry, the Lord being innocent, yet what was going on all around Him? Accusations and slander, [i]despising[/i].

Assuredly he answered many things to the accusations and questions leveled at Him but not in the mode of exasperation\\frustration and ultimately was [i]led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:[/i]

Sometimes it's better and wiser ... to HOLD OFF - unless you are certain you have the correct position and understanding regarding literal and symbolic readings ( specially that of revealation )

That depends on if one is placing it out there as a certainty or an attempt to learn.

But I think you have your wires crossed here brother. There is something rather subtle that I think many times we can get ourselves out of sorts with. That is measuring ourselves and justifying ourselves along the same lines as Jesus when it comes to our perceptions of indignation, anger, 'frustrations' what have you. The vast problem is that our character is so far from His to even open our mouth is to announce defeat, and expose us.

Crssck: It is a colossal mistake to equate those things Jesus stated as coming from a Spirit of maladjustment, such as ours

... and we are seeing this happen and have seen it happen over the last several years and it is tragic. The challenge is to be able to see the world and the church and not get a bad spirit. I think the word 'frustrating' is a word that probably should not be about us. This is especially true when it comes to wanting to see progress in that which we are doing for God. What if we preach repentance and no one repents? Do we get angry and fleshly? If we do what does that say about us? Grieved is one thing, but frustrated is another. Frustration stems from a desire to control the situation. When one looses control- they get frustrated.

When a Christian gets 'frustrated' they are in grave danger. Soon they may mistake anger for anointing and begin to write missives or say things as if they were the mouthpiece of God - that in reality have nothing to do with God. They start venting their own frustration because of [i]rejection[/i]. This is a serious problem and damages the person doing it. They become a 'loose canon'.

If the gifts of the Spirit and the fruit of the Spirit are not coupled together serious problems happen. The same Holy Spirit that may put a word on a persons heart to share for repentance is also working the fruit of the Spirit out in them. They are not mutually exclusive. They are together. So there is no such thing as an impatient prophet or an unloving teacher- at least there should not be. Because the fruits and giftings go together. If the one is working the other is also. It is the same Spirit.

However, there is a wisdom that is earthly, sensual, and demonic. It is not pure or peacable nor full of good fruits. The fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of those that make peace. You cannot look at the people and then say, "I've got a message that will rip them from Dan to Beersheba!" That is not God. That is the carnal mind at best and demonic at worst. We have to seek the face of God with a pure heart and weep for peoples souls. When they reject the message it causes grief. We run the risk of acting like a frustrated and abusive parent whose kids don't mind if we get in the flesh (so to speak).

Don't ruin what God wants to do in your life. Don't speak out of frustration or anger. Seek God for a fresh infilling of the Spirit and allow the fruit of the Spirit to be manifest along with the word.

Hebrew had no word for 'frustration' until the 20th century. You could get angry and you could be disappointed but not frustrated. :-D

Frustration is me protesting because I can't be God. God is never frustrated because he already IS God. :-)

That is a pre-lude to chapter eleven - technically enid your correct !

But did the writers - write in chapters, or wa s that for our benefit ( do you think )?

They the 2 witnesses - are asked to take the book ( eat ) like ezekiel did ... and then go prophesy befoere the nations.

And become a moving news headline ( regularly i'd say ) judging by the celebration of the world, once the beast eventually kills them, and overcomes them.

But yes Enid your correct
and thanks for pointing it out ( truly )
but consider wether one chapters often flows into the next one ( just food for thought ) :-)

Im not trying to wriggle out of anything ( by the way ) if in your mind i stand accused - then sobeit !

Back on topic though ... WE DON'T NAME DROP TO CONSOLIDATE ONE'S POSITION RIGHT?

In other words we don't resort to quoting this "former great" preacher or that former great scholar - in order to prove one's position ( correct )?

Or do we ?

To those who are not sure - let's surmise we can do this just occasionally though.

DO NOT YOUR OWN preachers that are held up in this message board i.e ravenhill and others - have they not taught on "holy anger" or "righteous anger"

I have a tract by ravenhill on "holy anger" published by last-days ministries. So likewise don't try and DENY IT TO BE TRUE.

SO AM I WRONG TO PREACH ON "righteous anger" and Jesus expressing disatisfaction with the people ( at times )?

If im wrong and have drawn a self convoluted bow to apperaently justify my own position

Is our friend - ravenhill also wrong?

What do we do? then ?

If we remove my anology - if we also have to conclude this man's writings( RAVENHILL) TO also to be in ERROR.
( AT THAT POINT ) :-(

Let's have a look at some more examples of dis-satisfaction - or frustration - after all he Christ had emotions and was human.

He learning obedience by the things he suffered.

But first if we suppose that the new testament at some stage was fully cannonized into ( Greek )

Then under new testament conditions and writings

We find that Paul used the word "frustrated"

Lo in Galations with regards to THE New gentile converts being decieved, and going back to LAW.

Paul says we can "FRUSTRATE" the grace of God in our own lives.

But im not interested in WINNING arguments
just thought to point that out though :-)

Now Jesus was clearly distraught and expressed disappointment that his own disciples could not cast out the devil from the child ( who was the only child to his father )

He Jesus said this: " How long shall i suffer you, how long shall i be with you - Oh faithless and perverse generation " bring him hither to me.(Luke 9:41) sounds like exasperation to me !

Moses one of the greatest prophets to ever walk the earth, and yet he shows human fraility and exasperation over the rebels - who did nothing but whinge and belly-ache to him about the wilderness conditions.

Smiting the rock with his rod - and saying "there you go ye rebels" ... here is your water.

My point is - we can all express dis-satisfaction

In this case yes - Moses blew it ( i know )

But who disciplined him? man or God ?

Nehemiah a great man of God and famous for his rebuiling of the walls - to the which many a great classic sermon has been taught, said this - and DID this. " And i CONTENDED with them, and CURSED them, and PLUCKED off their hair and made them swear by God, saying ye shall not give your daughters to be their sons.( Neh 13:25 )

And in verse 28 he chased one person away - from himself.

You say that was under law ( s.o.t ) true i agree fully, but he Nehemiah was clearly and visibly upset ( but could we call this... righteous anger )?

But how many of you knew - that was in there?

Sounds like an upset and indignant Nehemiah to me

Plucking hair from scalps - cursing them !

Im not advocating such behaviour in any way - just showing you - it is in there... that's all.

Now one of the reasons the pharisee's were blasted in matthew 23 was because of this very thing?

What thing?

They passed over judgement - mercy - faith - and the love of God. They passed over bringing repoof and correction to situations, and to the execution of "true mercy", time and time again they did this !

You see The "softly softly approach" whilst it gains friends and influences people, and never offends anyone !! it often fails in this though - to bring reproof ~~ when repoof is needed - or when an equitable outcome is desired and sought !

Paul and Barnabus also shewing a human side to them, when much disputing and sharp contention broke out over the John Mark incident, and wether he should be taken on their next missionary journey.

Things happen saints and stuff happens, as we see with paul and barnabus - and so likewise ive never claimed total immunity ~~ to mistakes in this message board.

If in the minds of some i have ... blown it !

At what point do i then get re-instated ( if ever )? or do i get - let of the HOOK? by some?

Love covers a multitude of sins doesn't it ?

Look also at the numerous times Peter the apostle blew it - But jesus re-instated him, and set him on the right course.

In hindsight maybe i would go back and change the wording to some things written ! But has any one person in here - had a 100 % PERFECT track record ... since you started posting IN here ?

as Paul said to the saints at Corinth ... if your so convinced im wrong -or- im this or im that - then forgive me this wrong!

Basically he's saying ... okay im wrong then.

But likewise: is your unforgiving spirit towards me ... wrong? also?

Something to think about and consider!

:-(

Let's have a look at some more examples of dis-satisfaction - or frustration - after all he Christ had emotions and was human.

So we agree to dis-agree !

The word frustration means to express dis-satisfaction or dis-pleasure over something.

You have emotions - we all do

Don't deny them or suppress them

Christ didn't ... when he wept intensely over lazarus death.

Even if im wrong - are you going to continue with your attitude towards me?

can you honestly say before God ?

You have no hostility or bad attitudes towards me?

and are walking in godly love towards me?

Think about your next answer more carefully

God is listening and bearing record in heaven!

You know, when I read the original post, I thought I would only concentrate on the part about the book of Revelation, because I saw what was coming.

Sadly, it has.

It's not important to get the last word, or have that clever answer.

If it is important to you, why is it?

Do you ever question that?

Prov 17v14, 'The beginning of strife is like releasing water, therefore stop contention before a quarrel starts.

Prov 13v10, 'Only by pride comes contention, but with the well advised is wisdom.

Do we want to be known for our pride or our God given wisdom?

Pride, as we all know, is not from God.

Don't expect to go through life free from rebuke, reproof, correction or being tested by God.

God will use others to get the desired outcome He wants, whether we like it or not.

This is for one and all.

But, fear God.

God bless.

even if im wrong - are you going to continue with your attitude towards me?

can you honestly say before God ?

You have no hostility or bad attitudes towards me?

and are walking in godly love towards me?

For others who might want to listen...

The way the Bible uses the word 'frustration' in significant...Ezra 4:5 And hired counsellors against them, to frustrate their purpose, all the days of Cyrus king of Persia, even until the reign of Darius king of Persia.

Is. 44:25 That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish;

Gal. 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. We can see in these verses that the original sense of the English word 'frustrate' was to block someone's will. It had nothing to do with emotion. Today, as with so many words we slip into an emotional expression of something which is really not an emotional concept.

Is my decision checked or obstructed by something or someone else? Frequently. Do I 'feel' impatience' with that? Sometimes. Was Jesus ever impatient... never. Sometimes we can deduce the meaning of a word by identifying its opposite. What is the opposite of frustration? Submission. Was Jesus always submitted? then he could never have been frustrated in our modern sense of the word.

It had nothing to do with emotion. Today, as with so many words we slip into an emotional expression of something which is really not an emotional concept.

Or as it is here a reading into things.

You see The "softly softly approach" whilst it gains friends and influences people, and never offends anyone !! it often fails in this though - to bring reproof ~~ when repoof is needed - or when an equitable outcome is desired and sought !

Curious ... but only if it is used in regards to yourself? Are you not indeed offended here, below;?

Things happen saints and stuff happens, as we see with paul and barnabus - and so likewise ive never claimed total immunity ~~ to mistakes in this message board.

Nor is there any refraction or insinuation ...

But likewise: is your unforgiving spirit towards me ... wrong? also?

You are reading far too much into these things brother. One of the greatest misconceptions here in this forum is to assume things. Assume a question or a challenge is meant as you state that of being 'unforgiving' or as attacks on one personally. It works both ways. Often when the challenge comes to what is [i]stated[/i] a retort is to go after ones [i]person[/i] and the opposite to assume that is what is being attributed, as you assume. That is what Ron is pointing out as well. What continues to happen here time and again is something very glaring, and that is that we can be too self-conscious. With that as a backdrop we begin to see everything through that framework and begin to be suspicious of far too much. It can make discussions divisive and bordering on strife if not checked, all because we perceive insult or don't really want to be challenged. Perhaps that in itself is enough of the problem, that we see challenge as a 'duel' rather than as opportunity to re-think things brought forth by those we have engaged in discussion with.

Your original heading here was; ""Did Jesus Get Frustrated" ??

As it has carried on you have brought forth many an example of similar emoting (of frustration\\exasperation) from those that are not Him. That only confuses the matter.

He Jesus said this: " How long shall i suffer you, how long shall i be with you - Oh faithless and perverse generation " bring him hither to me.(Luke 9:41) sounds like exasperation to me !

What is usually a part of our frustration\\exasperation? Isn't a large part of it "Why don't they get it?" or "What's wrong with them that they cannot see these things?" These types of sentiments. It would be far too easy to equate the same mentality to the Lord when He chastised or rebuked the people, the disciples, the Pharisees;

[i]For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.[/i] Mat 13:15

See the difference though? The Lord was never perplexed by the reason [i]why[/i], He knew the reason and gave the remedy, the proscription. We might often know just as well the same remedy but carry in ourselves a tension and impatience that is almost bordering on an outbreak of violence (anger is meant) that has to be suppressed. Surely we do not see anything of the sort with the Lord, Him having to suppress things or manage His emotions. Another example;

[i]Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?[/i] Mat 26:53

An idle threat or an expression of anger? Or a statement of fact? This is the difference, the Lord made statements of [i]fact[/i] not expressions of unbridled emotion.

Let's have a look at some more examples of dis-satisfaction - or frustration - after all he Christ had emotions and was human.

Most certainly He did and here where we need to be careful in our equating His 'humanness' with ours is against the very stringent point;

[i]Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;[/i] Heb 2:14

[i]For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet [b]without sin[/b].[/i] Heb 4:15

Not to be overtly didactic but you went from there not to look at examples of Jesus but to others. Jesus lived life in our human frame as it was meant to be from the original,

[i]But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the [b]likeness[/b] of men:[/i] Php 2:7

I may be going off to the side here a bit. But what is interesting SOT is that you may have inadvertently done something very helpful here by bringing this up, that it has allowed an opportunity to see the vast difference between ourselves and the Lord Jesus. His character and ours.

One verse that did come to mind and here I will give in to an ounce of consideration ... Let me clarify that a bit. I fully grasp why you would equate some of these emotions the way you have, for instance here;

[i]O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not![/i]
Mat 23:37

It [i]sounds[/i] like an expression of exasperation, but ultimately is it not just a piercing heartbreak ...

[b][i]and ye would not![/i][/b]?

Perhaps that in itself is enough of the problem, that we see challenge as a 'duel' rather than as opportunity to re-think things brought forth by those we have engaged in discussion with.

I think this is well put Mike. These forums can be a wonderful place to learn and share and be challenged. I think challenge can be a good thing as long as we don't take it personal. Challenge = opportunity to learn and have a clearer understanding.

It sounds like an expression of exasperation, but ultimately is it not just a piercing heartbreak ...

"how often I would... and ye would not"

I wonder how often he still feels thus.

Just to clarify further the statement

Hebrew had " no word for "frustration"

What do you do then - with the hebrew words

Frustrate and frustrateth?
Book of Ezra 4:5
AND
Isaiah 44: 25 Whereupon God him self apportions frustration to the liars?

Might take some fancy lies or evasive semantics to get out of this one - i'd say :-o

Your just playing word games!!

Isn't it called semantics

The vain juggling of use and meanings of words

Side splitting-hairs. Different terms, differing (uses of) the words frustrate, exasperate, heartbreak

Go and see in your own modern dictionaries

Often there is 2 or 3 different variations of the use of the same word, but many times those meanings are closely related and associated.

Jesus was right - they swallowed camels and strained at knats! :-(

Some call it splitting hairs

Paul called it doting on questions
( and )

Strife of words :-(

we also told and admonished not to strive about words to no profit!

Because all's it does - it subvert the hearers

By the way i didn't see you take up my invitation to go on record?

It was an invitation - NOT baiting you!

If your so convinced bitterness is always tantamount to Sin, then you should bear record!

That Our brother Ezekiel - went in bitterness
Ezekiel3:14 " so the Spirit lifted me up and took me away, and i went in BITTERNESS, in the HEAT of my spirit.

What about the brotherhood of Revelation chapter ten ( our brothers known as the 2 witnesses )
Rev10: And i went unto the angel and said unto him, give me the little book. And he said unto me, TAKE IT, and eat it up: and it shall make thy belly BITTER, but it shall shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

Bitter because they pronounce plagues and judgements upon the ungodly world at that time.

Sweet in their mouth because - other parts of Revelation say it is a time God exacts revenge on his enemies, "specially" those who have spilled the blood of saints and of prophets.

So My offer still stands - as does my invitation

Anyone care to go on record to say all bitterness is sin? - or to declare these 3 men are in Sin?

Because clearly they know BITTERNES of the belly.

To the person who implicated me using control or to be out of control if "people" can't get there way!

No1. Control is basically a form of withcraft as decribed in the book of Galations - we tend to think of witchcraft as long pointy hats, covens, nose wriggling females. But witchcraft is also maniplulation and control!

So your implication towards me is of the severest kind!

No2. Now if i was in any way controling as you implicate me to be - then call to remebrance the thread on "the book of revelation" - how after my third entry ... i BOWED out of the thread totally.

And allowed you all to dis-agree with me!

NOW If i was a control freak or control tyrannt in any way ... why didn't I come back into the thread?

And defend myself?

The truth is ive allowed many thousands of people TO HAVE an alternative view - or differing opinions to mine!

And many times not answering back!

Does that sound like the person who always wants to control a situation? or insists on people seeing things his way?

GO SEARCH - look and see: Do a review and see if i enter into other people's posts and cause strife? - constantly telling them that their wrong, or insisting they enbrace my ways or MY teaching.? ( AND YES I HAVE READ OTHER PEOPLE'POSTS )

Am i trying to justify myself - was one charge leveled at me!

Jesus said by our own words we ARE justified
(or)
we are condemned

Our words either clear us ( or ) we do err - and do wrong!

To the best of my God given ability i seek to be scriptural and to sometimes respond to questions, and responses ( by using the word of God) that is how i have sought to conduct myself in this message board! Words do JUSTIFY ... then in the sight of people and in the sight of God.

It is God ( and not man ) who justifies!
Who is he then - that condemns? ROM 8:33-34

CASE EXAMPLE OF THE SON OF GOD - WHOSE WORDS JUSTIFIED HIMSELF " THE RULER OF THE SYNAGOGUE answered with INDIGNATION: saying 6 days ought men to come and be healed - and not on the sabbath day!

Jesus response was; " thou hypocrite " and then he gave him the illustration of masters ( owners )leading animals about to do this and that on the sabbath days - and ought not this woman a daughter of Abraham being bound by satan lo these eightenn years be loosed from this infirmity?

To the which all his adversaries ( opponents) were ASHAMED.!!

The reply from the son of God and his words: (cleared him) and his own words in this predicament - yes (justified him)!

By our words we are justified - by our words we are condemned!

One last thing: some IN HERE might be prone to think WHY look at how many people oppose this person or that person in the messaage board - ohh i best stay away from them, after all how can weight and tide of public opinion be so against such( and they still be right about things )? they must be wrong? judging by numbers against them ( and why look at the monster - others paint them out to be) but don't be fooled by that SAINTS ... or that kind of (thinking) or by that level of opposition! and why? BECAUSE EVEN BECAUSE

Jesus had many opponents
Paul said there were many adversaries in Corinth

Jesus said WOE unto you when all men - speak well of you! for so did the fathers to the "FALSE PROHETS" ( IOW - the fathers spoke alway complimentary things and nice words - to these false prophets )

Perhaps very much like that of the mainstream churches today: who are always and constantly "honouring each other" in their public services - and that before the congregations.

But Jesus said though" how can you recieve the HONOUR that comes from above only? when ye receive honour, all the time - the one - from the other?

I guess looking back now in hindsight - that is one WOE that i will never have to worry ABOUT? (that all men will speak well of me).

I HAVE: delivered myself from that (WOE)!

HOW ABOUT YOU?

Many of the senior rulers of the synagogue "believed" on him - but because of the PHARISEE'S they did not CONFESS him - lest they should be expelled from the synagogues.

For they loved the acceptance and approval of men - more than that of God ( John12:42-43 )

To the person who implicated me using control or to be out of control if "people" can't get there way!

I seem to recall that this thread is about being frustrated? Frustration develops when you cannot be in control of a situation to obtain your own will. When things do not go as you wish- you get frustrated. The more important the issue in your mind- the greater the sense of frustration. It could be as simple as driving behind a slow driver; you want them to go at your speed- but because they are not and are hindering you you get frustrated.

Things don't always go the way we want them to- and the more we want them to go our way- the more frustration is felt. As Ron pointed out, it is when man wants to be God. Disappointment or anger is perhaps a better word to use because frustration is inevitably linked to wanting to be in control. Things are not going the way we want so frustration develops. BTW control and witchcraft are not necessarily linked as you mentioned. A teacher can get frustrated that her students will not sit down and do their schoolwork- this does not make her a witch.

So are you charging me with ... control?

Yes or no ? answer will suffice

Are you implicating me in blasphemy? also

Implying a luciferian type sin.

That frustration is someone who wants to be God?

Pretty severe charges !

I will just say if you personal charges and attacks ...on me... are found to be unwarranted, wrong and false accusation.

You will be dealt wIth severely by God ( yourself ) SEVERELY !

THE INDIRECT CHARGE TOO OF BLASPHEMY - THAT I SEEK TO BE "AS" GOD !

WILL NOT BE LOOKED UPON LIGHTLY FROM HEAVEN.

YOU'VE BOTH ENTERED INTO VERY SERIOUS CHARGES AND ACCUSATIONS ( NOW )

Let the record be known - then and the seven Spirits of God ... his all seeing eyes - take note of the implications.

And let the great of God deal out the matter now

If i have spoken evil - bear witness of the evil?

Before God, his angels, the seven Spirits of God, the four and twenty elders in heaven.

For i bear recored before heaven and earth this Day: to the implications and charges spoken and uttered.

Deal Lord as you see fit - For God is the judge, jury, and true executioner.

And not you my friend - even though you semm to have no hesitation in getting personal and attacking my character - and that before the entire world - mind you, implicating Luciferiann type sins and and that of guilt in the area of control.

A person can express frustration in many areas of life, it doesn't make them a bad person, or even evil ( my friend ).

Jesus got angry with the Jewish rulers - over the hardness of their hearts.

Jesus called the ruler of the synagogue a hypocrite.

Does that necessitate that he was guilty of sin ? of course not !

As he manifested a righteous holy anger

When he ( Jesus ) drove out the money changers - did he not make awhip and then brandish it about - driving out the money changers and turning over tables - what kind of emotions were manifested then? ( i wonder ) ? don't be a hypocrite - you have flaws and faults yourself, ever got angry in traffic jams ? ( of course )

“and are hiring against them counsellors to make void their counsel all the days of Cyrus king of Persia, even till the reign of Darius king of Persia.”
(Ezra 4:5 YNG)

“Making void the tokens of devisers, And diviners it maketh mad, Turning the wise backward, And their knowledge it maketh foolish.”
(Is 44:25 YNG)
The Hebrew word 'parar' is translated 'frustrate' in the KJV. Youngs Literal Translation renders it in a way which avoids the modern emotional content, as above. The best way of discovering the meaning of a word is to see how it is used by the Bible writers. You will find a comprehensive list of the ways this word is used and a dictionary definition [url=http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/words.pl?hr=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blueletterbible.org%2Fsearch.html&icon=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.blueletterbible.org%2Fgifs%2Fsearch_tools.gif&bgcolor=FFFFFF&textcolor=000000&linkcolor=39398C&vlinkcolor=0000FF&strongs=6565&language=H&anything.x=0&anything.y=0]here.[/url] In the KJV it is translated thus; AV - break 25, make void 5, defeat 2, disannul 2, disappoint 2,
frustrate 2, come to nought 2, break asunder 1,
cause to cease 1, clean 1, dissolved 1, divide 1, misc 5; 50.

In other words, out of 50 uses it is translated 'frustrate' twice.

Might take some fancy lies or evasive semantics to get out of this one - i'd say

Sonofthunder, Finally I decided to pop in here. I confess, when I first saw the thread title I rolled my eyes thinking: "been there-done that", but after checking it, I realize that you raise some good points – and stir me to think about our word usage.

You make a good point here:

Often there is 2 or 3 different variations of the use of the same word, but many times those meanings are closely related and associated.

I’d say, many of our English words have even more than 2 or 3 levels of meaning. Same with Greek words. And our use of words keeps on changing. That’s just the way it is with a living language.

Maybe a good word to fit the context of your question would be “annoyed.” Indeed, our goals get frustrated, and it is tempting to get annoyed when that happens. (like when we can't get others to see our point;-))

We don’t see the bigger picture. God does. Often it as case of spiritual refinement - as "iron sharpens iron".

Many Bible characters experienced frustration (annoyance, exasperation,… ) They processed their thoughts and moved into quiet rest in God. Ex David:

"I have stilled and quieted my soul;
like a weaned child with its mother
like a weaned child is my soul within me." Ps. 131:2

We (and I speak personally) often need to go through a long and rugged process of many frustrations before we come to peace and rest. It is a death process.

Keep thinking, brother......... May the PEACE of God rule in your heart.

Diane

So are you charging me with ... control?

Yes or no ? answer will suffice

Are you implicating me in blasphemy? also

Implying a luciferian type sin.

That frustration is someone who wants to be God?

Pretty severe charges !

You write as if you believe you have a special place in God's economy beyond the 'average Christian' ? Some special revelation? Some special calling?

I'm am utterly unmoved by it.

And not you my friend - even though you semm to have no hesitation in getting personal and attacking my character - and that before the entire world - mind you, implicating Luciferiann type sins and and that of guilt in the area of control.

What are you talking about? And why do you call yourself 'son of thunder'? You are reading wildly into things with a hypersensitivity (here comes another accusation to level on my head the judgment of God?). Right? Because you are beyond reproach and common understandings of words do not apply to you. Who are you? Who do you think you are? I am asking this question seriously!

That frustration is someone who wants to be God?

If a person gets frustrated in ministry they need to keep in mind that they are [u]not[/u] God. As tough a pill to swallow as it is- God is God and we are not. We cannot change people. I'm sorry, but frustration is not a fruit of the Spirit. It runs contrary to the fruits of the Spirit. This simple fact is not a charge of anything, either, [i]before[/i] you write another scathing missive.

For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise (Heb. 10:36)

This is a quote from my last post:

BTW control and witchcraft are not necessarily linked as you mentioned. [u]A teacher can get frustrated that her students will not sit down and do their schoolwork- this does not make her a witch.[/u]

And if I might add a blasphemer or a child of Satan.

THE INDIRECT CHARGE TOO OF BLASPHEMY - THAT I SEEK TO BE "AS" GOD !

WILL NOT BE LOOKED UPON LIGHTLY FROM HEAVEN.

YOU'VE BOTH ENTERED INTO VERY SERIOUS CHARGES AND ACCUSATIONS ( NOW )

Let the record be known - then and the seven Spirits of God ... his all seeing eyes - take note of the implications.

And let the great of God deal out the matter now

If i have spoken evil - bear witness of the evil?

Before God, his angels, the seven Spirits of God, the four and twenty elders in heaven.

For i bear recored before heaven and earth this Day: to the implications and charges spoken and uttered.

Deal Lord as you see fit - For God is the judge, jury, and true executioner.

How does this jibe with Jesus on the Cross as He forgave? How does this jibe with Stephen who was being stoned to death and prayed the Lord forgive those who were stoning Him? What place does calling on God to judge the Saints have in the New Testament?

"Did Jesus Get Frustrated" ??
The answer is yes he did get frustrated at many things - of which i will outline some

But first yes - i said some things in frustration in my post ( book of Revelation ) - i admit this.

But if that constitutes Sin - then yes i do repent before the whole message board ( okay )

But back on topic jesus got frustated at the fig tree ... when he was a hungered and it bore no fruit, so he cursed it - and it withered up and died as we well know.

Jesus got frustrated with the pharisee's towards the end of his minisrty he called them snakes and hypocrites.

He ( Jesus ) got frustrated and exasperated with the Jews over their calloused indifference concerning the man with the (withered hand).

In fact scripture says he looked about on them with "ANGER" ... DUE TO THE HARDNESS OF THEIR HEARTS !!

But some would say that's Jesus and he never put a foot wrong - true ... but look at Paul he told the council that God would smash the man that was commanded to smite him - calling him a whited wall

Your own words. Some of us disagree that what you have stated is in fact frustration that you are attributing to [i]Jesus[/i]. That you left off there and started with [i]but look at Paul[/i] and then forget that this verse you quoted is in fact incomplete and out of context;

Act 23:4 The men standing near him asked, "Do you mean to insult God's high priest?"
Act 23:5 Paul answered, "I didn't realize, brothers, that he is the high priest. After all, it is written, 'You must not speak evil about a ruler of your people.'"

You have already decided that there will be no challenge to this by the way you have answered. You refuse to hear anything that does not fit your preconceptions. You have gone to great lengths to ignore the fact that you are assuming far too much and taking it personal.

So are you charging me with ... control?

Yes or no ? answer will suffice

Are you implicating me in blasphemy? also

Implying a luciferian type sin.

That frustration is someone who wants to be God?

Pretty severe charges !

I will just say if you personal charges and attacks ...on me... are found to be unwarranted, wrong and false accusation.

On the one hand no one was charging [i]you[/i] with control.

I seem to recall that this thread is about being frustrated? Frustration develops when you cannot be in control of a situation to obtain your own will. When things do not go as you wish- you get frustrated. The more important the issue in your mind- the greater the sense of frustration. It could be as simple as driving behind a slow driver; you want them to go at your speed- but because they are not and are hindering you you get frustrated.

The whole point was [i]you[/i] as in 'we', as in 'us'. The irony now is that by your response it applies precisely to you. You are frustrated and have begun making all kinds of unwarranted accusations. No one is accusing of blasphemy or a 'luciferian type sin'.

You will be dealt wIth severely by God ( yourself ) SEVERELY !

And what of this accusation?

If i have spoken evil - bear witness of the evil?

False accusations.
Pride.

Jesus said WOE unto you when all men - speak well of you! for so did the fathers to the "FALSE PROHETS" ( IOW - the fathers spoke alway complimentary things and nice words - to these false prophets )

Perhaps very much like that of the mainstream churches today: who are always and constantly "honouring each other" in their public services - and that before the congregations.

But Jesus said though" how can you recieve the HONOUR that comes from above only? when ye receive honour, all the time - the one - from the other?

I guess looking back now in hindsight - that is one WOE that i will never have to worry ABOUT? (that all men will speak well of me).

I HAVE: delivered myself from that (WOE)!

HOW ABOUT YOU?

Certainly you have not been delivered from it. If you had as you state, you would not been going to such great lengths to defend yourself from accusations that you presume and then attempt to force into play.

The 'attacks' on your character are not as you assume. What is evident is your refusal to [i]consider[/i] a challenge to your statements at the outset.

By the way i didn't see you take up my invitation to go on record?

It was an invitation - NOT baiting you!

If your so convinced bitterness is always tantamount to Sin, then you should bear record!

On the contrary."[i]If your so convinced bitterness is always tantamount to Sin[/i]". No where and no one made any such reference to this except [i]you, you[/i] brought it forth, it is no different from setting up a scarecrow for an argument and then asking for it to be knocked down. It is presupposing that somebody else is thinking this and then 'inviting' them to 'bear record'. And you wish to speak about 'striving of words to no profit'?

No, despite the attempts here to dialouge and converse you have reacted with your own bitterness of spirit, control, frustration, accusation, misconstruing and defending. All things that you earlier presupposed have now come to bear by your own words, those are your indictment, they are your own self-fulfilling prophecies.

You can either dialouge or pontificate, we are not your enemies and you do a great disservice to those here who have not lorded anything over you but have only engaged and challenged your assumptions, not to your hurt but to the profit of all the hearers, readers. If you wish to stop up your ears and only pronounce then you are disinterested in fellowship and discussion and have set yourself as judge and dictator. If you cannot humble yourself and participate without resorting to this sort of dictating, I would recommend you take your arguments elsewhere.