Hate Crimes Laws: Censoring the Church and Silencing Christians

Hate Crimes Laws: Censoring the Church and Silencing Christians

June 13, 2007 - Wednesday

Advocates of a sweeping national "hate crimes" law are on the verge of victory in the U.S. Congress. With massive funding from the homosexual lobby, these advocates are moving one step closer to the day when the federal government will be able to investigate, and punish, politically incorrect speech and thoughts.

Think "it can't happen here"? In October 2004, a small group of Christians, now known as the "Philadelphia 11," were arrested and spent a night in jail for preaching the Gospel at a "gay pride" event. They were charged with a "hate crime" under Pennsylvania law. Though the case was ultimately dismissed, the Christians had no support from the ACLU and other self-described champions of free speech. More and more, the political left is protecting the First Amendment rights only of speakers they agree with.

Hate crimes laws now threaten free speech and religious liberty nationwide. They have the potential to "shut down churches and send pastors to prison for simply reading a part of the Bible," as Dr. D. James Kennedy has warned.

Family Research Council, along with Coral Ridge Ministries, invites you to order a copy of our provocative new video, "Hate Crimes Laws": Censoring the Church and Silencing Christians. This program, which I had the honor to host, features shocking examples of how hate crimes laws trample free speech, muzzle broadcasters, and intimidate pastors in country after country.

For a limited time, with a donation of any amount, you can obtain this 40-minute video and discover how even the Bible is being deemed "hate" literature. The time has come for every citizen to take action. Violent crimes are despicable, and their perpetrators deserve swift and certain punishment. But the purpose of "hate crime" laws is to attribute violence to certain ideas as a way of attacking and ultimately outlawing those ideas, among them, that homosexual conduct is wrong and unhealthy.

If hate crime laws proliferate, the freedom to speak one's mind will be limited to those who celebrate and promote homosexuality.
share this with your neighbors, family, and friends. Our freedom to speak is the bedrock of our political liberties. Help us spread the word.

**edited**

Was reading that the words and phrases 'natural family, marriage and the union of a man and a woman' might soon become so called hate speech.

Whilst we are indifferent about it, satan is moving to get this to happen as soon as possible.

So far, it hasn't really affected the Church as a whole, but in time, the tide will turn.

It will mean fines, imprisonment, unemployment, loss of family and friends, and even death.

But we should be ever ready to suffer for the gospel.

Suffering is not popular, or wanted, but it is inevitable, 2 Tim 3v12.

However, we have a wonderful God to help us here and now, and a glorious home awaiting us.

And it is not on this earth, thank God!

God bless.

This is indeed serious because anything that is said, especially in media like radio will be targeted as a hate crime offense. These kind of bills won't have much impact until the right political climate exsists, probably sometime after Bush is out of office.

Are the sexually immoral, bitter, greedy and lukewarm people asking for 'rights'?

If you say anything against them, will you get thrown into prison or find yourself without a job?

Let's not kid ourselves, this is war!

It is a satanic war. It has to be, because God has said homosexuality is a sin, and it is.

Just because man is perverting what God says doesn't make the sin obsolete.

What a farcical self-deceived world we live in, when man supposes he can usurp God.

Still, persecution is coming, we should be prepared for it.

God is good.

God bless.

Wow, this is another reminder to got on our faces before the Lord for our Country.

However, if this bill is passed, I'm sure that the Lord will use it as a wake up call. The "Church" is asleep in the spirit of Babylon and this might be the thing to wake it up. Sad, but maybe necessary. :-(

Jordan

While it irritates me that the homosexual and liberal community are trying to write into law, these such things, I'm kind of looking forward to seeing what it does to the Christian community at large. Are we going to hunker down? ARe we going to be silenced? Or, are we goingt o take this opportunity to stand up for our beliefs even if it costs us imprisonment, or our life? This will be good testing of our faith. Revive us, Lord. Bring America, and the rest of the world, back to you.

Was reading that the words and phrases 'natural family, marriage and the union of a man and a woman' might soon become so called hate speech.

Hate to say this, but saying ANYTHING concerning what God says is sin, or what God Himself labels as a "natural" family(one man/one woman for life), within AND without the "church" is now being labelled hate, even by confessing Christians.

I believe when remarriage while one has a living spouse started becoming acceptable in the Church, the doors opened wide for ALL kinds of immorality to creep in. We are merely reaping what has been sown by our own compromise and tolerance of sin.

The Lord says that judgment begins at the house of the LOrd. Perhaps the "persecution" we are starting to see unfold is His judgment on us.......we are pointing at the UNSAVED's sins, being persecuted for it, but we are not dealing with our OWN sins and purging them from ourselves. I just heard a stat on my local Christian radio that stated---among regular church going men(men who attend church EVERY WEEK), almost 50% said that they are addicted to pornography!!! That is shocking to say the least!!! According to Jesus' teaching on sin(outward and inward), these men are all practicing adulterers...........Are some of them the ones pointing fingers at the UNSAVED homosexual??? Probably, and that is very much like the actions of the Pharisees in Jesus' day---they were pointing out sins to the "less religious", yet Jesus said they were guilty of the very same sins they were charging others with.

So far, it hasn't really affected the Church as a whole, but in time, the tide will turn. It will mean fines, imprisonment, unemployment, loss of family and friends, and even death. But we should be ever ready to suffer for the gospel.

You are quite wrong that addressing immorality and suffering for it hasn't really affected the Church(those in the BODY of Christ) yet. There are some who are suffering "loss" because they are speaking out against sin WITHIN the confessing church. They are rejected by those who name the name of Christ. I find it quite ironic that confessed Christians come against UNSAVED people who are persecuting them for standing against immorality, but the same Christians will stand against the BRETHREN/SISTERS who come against immorality WITHIN the Church. Personally, I think that persecution is much more difficult to take than persecution by the World, who don't claim to know/serve God. Just my two........or three.

and BTW, I am an uncompromising holiness preacher. Homosexuality is a damnable sin... infact all transgression is sin. I just think we have been brainwashed by our babylonian religous system to view other peoples sins as worse then ours. Even if they have a political agenda, they are no worse. Our kingdom is not of this world, biblical persecution has always gone hand in hand with a glorious advancement of the gospel.

Great post, Jim. :-)

Or, are we going to take this opportunity to stand up for our beliefs even if it costs us imprisonment, or our life? This will be good testing of our faith. Revive us, Lord. Bring America, and the rest of the world, back to you.

I used to think our national trend away from Christianity from would tend to rally and unite the Church but I'm not so sure now. I feel we are divided on how to respond to the liberalization of the country.

I think American Christians don't know to view their country; is it a nation under God or Babylon the fallen? Those who, inspired by a fear of coming judgement, try to stand up and speak out, will be thought of as zealots by some Christians. On the other hand, those who feel that America, like the rest of world system, should be allowed to go it's seperate way unimpeded, will be thought of as weak or compromised by others.

We Christians in America are wrestling with the paradyme shift towards socialism/totalitarianism in our country, and we are in disagreement as to how we should respond. I imagine some of us look back on earlier times in religous America with wistful sentiment, while others fantasize about a dark future where the lines between the Church and the world are refereshingly stark, if violent.

In any case, the present nebulous gray fog that we are in is disconcerting. It is like those scenes of civil war battlefields where the two opposing forces, shrouded in thick smoke, could not see clearly, but knew that they were mixed in with the enemy. (I am using a physical analogy in spiritual context.)

Presently there are many border disputes between the Church and the World. Christians are taking sides in these shifting struggles, and the result is strife within our own 'ranks.' Perhaps we might remember the current confusion, if ever we are rounded up and put into prisons...in the least we will at least be thankful for the restoration of defined borders...even if those borders are prison walls and barbed wire.

A house divided cannot stand.

Amen. Yet there is a need for division some where. The question is where should the divide be established? I think this is what Jesus meant when he said "I come not to bring peace, but to bring a sword" . Not that we are exhorted to cut each other, or subdue the world...but that Jesus would bring the Sword of the Spirit into our situation, which is much like those smokey civil war battlefields, and seperate the Church from the World. Sometimes the border falls between citizens of the same country. Sometimes the border falls between members of the same family. And sometimes the borderline falls right through the heart of a poor Christian.

Blessings,

MC

Well said... Persecution will increase in all nations:

Things will get so bad that some government officials will not take responsibility for their actions, but find a scapegoat. At first hardships will be blamed on conservatives, but that will develop into blaming Christians for society’s ills. Christians will be portrayed as the ones who caused the economic problems, are blocking the solutions, and standing in the way of progress. As history reveals, at first it will be sporadic, but over time gain momentum, until it becomes part of the culture when the average person believes it.”

Don’t be afraid, but be watchful. When you saw the NY Times portray the Norwegian mass murderer as a “Christian”, that’s one part. When you hear of Senator John Kerry and others call the downgrade of the US by Standard & Poors the “Tea Party downgrade,” that’s part of the spirit of Antichrist at work.

Satan takes advantage of the things of man, and since the world is facing economic crisis, that spirit will have room to work across borders and cultures for years to come, beyond the 4-5 years of economic issues.

Quote:

"Am I on the right web site???? A thread talking about persecution in America.. Surely this cannot be Sermon Index. I thought the persecuted were a taboo topic in this forum."

Stop being so smug. Your posts read so though you think yourself the only person who cares, weeps, and prays for the persecuted church. The rest of us don't feel the need to be so public about it.

Now get off the internet and go in silence to the prayer closet.

fartyr wrote:

"Stop being so smug. Your posts read so though you think yourself the only person who cares, weeps, and prays for the persecuted church. The rest of us don't feel the need to be so public about it.

Now get off the internet and go in silence to the prayer closet."

fartyr, this is not all that edifying, is it?

Blaine's passion is for the persecuted church and it is good to be reminded of it because we may find ourselves in the not-so-distant future on the other end of the gun barrel because of our faith.

fartyr, one thing I have noticed on this forum is that everyone seems to specialize in certain topics. No one person is interested in all that are being discussed but will be very passionate in what is dear to their own heart. And this is the way a brotherhood operates: we are all gifted and not all have the same gifts.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Just thought I would point out that this thread was started in 2007 can so much strife be stirred on such an old thread? Are the things of the Article what has happened today four years later? Come now brothers and sisters we are all sinners who need a saviour. Its pretty easy to start an account on here and critize those you haven't really interacted with. It would be like a man walking into your house you don't know and him complaining about how you run your house. We must show some grace to one another if we are going to make it through this persecution that IS coming.

And "'Fart'yr" it is surely a lot of work you went to, to simply mock one of our brothers in Christ on a public forum, very mature of you to use 2nd grade antics with a 2nd grade joke. I pray the Lord soften your heart and save it.

What is all this concern about homosexuality?

Why not pick on the heterosexual swingers, or teens who get off on porno?

Did Jesus really appoint us to be the moral police of the world?

Was the Great Commission that Jesus gave us require us to go out and tell the world which sins are abomination to the Lord and that Jesus wants them to stop committing these sins or they will end up in HELL? Is this how we were saved?

Are our sins so much smaller than their sins that makes us Christians a better and more Godly people than they? Or is it 'God in us' that makes us Holy, or are you Holy because you are not gay, or because all your works are good and all your thoughts are perfect?

I witness to gays, and never speak against their Homosexual ways, and gays have a wide range of views about being gay. Many see themselves as being Christians, and they defend their Christianity before other gays.

I encourage Christian gays, and I bring the true Gospel of Jesus Christ to non-Christian gays, that they too may have eternal life. And i listen to them and I love them.

I simply share the gospel of Jesus Christ, and the The Laws of Christ, and the Love of Christ,and allow the seeds to have a chance to take root, and if any turn to God and accept the gospel, God will take it from there and He will give them the indwelling Holy Spirit WHOM will make in them the right changes in their life and in their very nature, that they may be enabled to naturally do the good that God created them to do. It sure is not my job to change them.

Holiness is not the absence of sin in our life, Holiness is the presence of God in our Life.

The only sinner that will be saved is the repentant sinner. Brother Art I am curious have the homosexual Christians you know repented of homosexuality? If not, are they saved? A radical turn to God requires a radical Turn from Sin.

But my sins are far worse, if the Lord says lusting with your eyes is a sin and I had to repent of that sin, why then is homosexually an exception? This ofcourse being if you think they are saved yet still unrepented from homosexuality.

(disregard brother Art I misread your post my apologizes but I am still curious how you share the gospel with them) :)

by mguldner on 2011/8/27 0:20:22

"The only sinner that will be saved is the repentant sinner. Brother Art I am curious have the homosexual Christians you know repented of homosexuality? If not, are they saved? A radical turn to God requires a radical Turn from Sin.

But my sins are far worse, if the Lord says lusting with your eyes is a sin and I had to repent of that sin, why then is homosexually an exception? This ofcourse being if you think they are saved yet still unrepented from homosexuality.

(disregard brother Art I misread your post my apologizes but I am still curious how you share the gospel with them) :)"

I share the gospel to the gays as i do to everyone, even as I did here on other threads. Accepting the atoning blood of Jesus as a covering for all their sins, The Laws of Christ under the New Covenant, the receiving of the indwelling Holy Spirit whom will be there Helper to bring them to maturity in Jesus Christ. God does all the work, I just want them to enter into fellowship with God. I do not judge them, but I do love them.

Art...the term "christian gays" is as ridiculous as "christian adulterer" or "christian thief". It would seem to me you peddle a cheap grace gospel which is not a gospel at all. The gospel of Jesus is .....leave your life, lay it down...take up your cross, repent of sin (ALL SIN) and follow me. You can't do that and continue in adultery, theft, lying, homosexuality or any other sin. Granted we all have sin we continually are "dealing" with..... the key is we are "dealing" with it and we don't sugar coat it and call it a way of life.

Enochh wrote to Art:
It would seem to me you peddle a cheap grace gospel which is not a gospel at all.

God bless you,
Lisa

Enoch never claimed to be perfect sis, just that for one to say I am a homosexual Christian is a complete contradiction of life. This is the real test and I believe Enoch hit it right on are you battling the Sin in your life? Someone who is homosexual and is battling it, is making an effort to turn from it and for them is grace. But to say Oh God will just accept them as they are without them leaving that old life is against the Scriptures.

If we don't identify with Christ and His Death as our own we cannot identify with Christ in his Resurrection power and cannot call ourselves children of God. Repentance is a lifestyle, of turning from Sin. I don't continue looking at pornography just because I am a Christian and God forgives, No I fight and battle it with the Help of our Lord Jesus Christ. I cruxify the flesh with the help of Christ and its all Him truly but we must submit to the truth of His word, He calls Sin an abomination and He calls His children to FLEE from it and come out of it.

If a homosexual is truly repentant and fleeing this sin then they are a New Creature in Christ Jesus and wouldn't be a "homosexual Christian" but simply a Christian or perhaps a Christian who was a former homosexual or a Christian who battles it.

Remember violent men take the Kindom of God by force, this of course is refering to our inner man. When you enter Christ Jesus and establish that relationship truly your relationship to sin changes as well.

Matthew, I love ya brother. I agree and see exactly what you wrote but we (Christians) live in a “christian bubble” if I may say so humbly.

Are you perfect and free from all besetting sins? Give others as much time as God has given you.

We start these threads and wind up in every one of them saying in round about ways that our sinful struggles (sexual sins) are not the same as “the homosexuals.” Therefore “ours” are a much cleaner sin than theirs is and brother, that is plain and simple pride on our part.

And all I’m trying to say is that upon reading the average Christian’s responses in these threads, no wonder homosexuals won’t venture into our churches to be set free; no wonder they’ve created a whole community unto themselves.

I’ve said my peace and brother I meant no harm to you, I hope none was taken. I won’t post again in this thread, so carry on!!!

God bless you,
Lisa

Ah Sister you know I love you too. And I definitely see where you are coming from, in my struggle against lust I had to come to a place of humility in this area. I had to answer the question Is my sin the same or not? I know you see my point and I am thankful. Something that helped me even come to the truth was being confronted with it, I don't see an equal balance in the "realm of homosexuals" meaning there are some that are like the Westboro baptist church that are just hatemongers and this is one extreme and then there are those that say their lifestyle is okay and they don't need to change a thing because they'll go to heaven either way, they can even be preachers.

There has to be an equal balance of loving them and showing them compassion while at the same time confronting the sin with the truth of the Word of God. Christ Jesus came to free us from sin, not provide grace so we can wallow in it. I am far from perfect that is for sure and as you put it the Lord isn't done with me.

I had forgotten about this thread till today, then it took awhile to find it.

I have read all the replies and I am not impressed by any of the responses except for those of Lysa, who has the heart of Christ.

I recall Jesus handling of the adulterous woman. Jesus knew she committed adultery, so did her accusers who brought her to Jesus in order to discredit Him. Jesus had compassion for her even though she was an adulteress.

Jn 8:1-11
But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. Early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people were coming to Him; and He sat down and began to teach them. The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman caught in adultery, and having set her in the center of the court, they said to Him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in adultery, in the very act. Now in the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women; what then do You say?" They were saying this, testing Him, so that they might have grounds for accusing Him. But Jesus stooped down and with His finger wrote on the ground. But when they persisted in asking Him, He straightened up, and said to them, "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." AGAIN HE STOOPED DOWN AND WROTE ON THE GROUND. When they heard [e.g. saw what Jesus wrote and understood] it, they began to go out one by one, beginning with the older ones, and He was left alone, and the woman, where she was, in the center of the court. Straightening up, Jesus said to her, "Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?" She said, "No one, Lord." And Jesus said, " I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more." NASU

What happened here? These men knew she was an adulterous, She knew she was an adulterous, Jesus knew she was an adulterous. These accusers left while Jesus was writing in the dirt. All knew THE LAW required her death by stoning, then they had to hang her body on a tree for all to see what becomes of adulterers.

Each saw what Jesus was writing and they understood. I am convinced Jesus provided each of the accusers with a reminder of a sin they were guilty of, punishable by the Mosaic Law. And understanding their own dilemma, each walked away. Jesus had mercy on the woman, He merely told her to not sin [i.e. do not violated any laws of the Mosaic covenant anymore.]. Jesus, knowing she did commit adultery yet He did not violate the Mosaic Covenant, because the Mosaic Law requires two witnesses to convict, and all the other witnesses of the crime had walked away.

But we live under a different Covenant, whereby we do not save ourselves, but God has saved us through the blood covering of Jesus blood, shed on the cross, by the one sacrifice of the only PERFECT LAMB OF GOD, JESUS!

I accept the word of the homosexual that he/she is a Christian if they are truly under the BLOOD of Jesus Christ after accepting Jesus died for their sins and His blood covers all their sins, whatever they be. I believe God will work in them until the day of Christ, and God will accomplish His will in them.

However, if you say such a one can not possibly be a saved Christian because of his sin - homosexuality, then by what standard of measure you measure them, so shall it be measured unto, and when you step on that scale of Christian virtue you built for yourselves, you yourselves will be judged accordingly.

As for me, I will be their friend and not condemn them, and will encourage them to set their eyes on Jesus, and pray that God has mercy on them, for God to work in their life to transform them to do the good that He created them to do.

For I too believe in Jesus and accepted Jesus atoning blood shed on the cross - washing away all my sins for all time, and I have the indwelling Holy Spirit (God-In-Me), and I know God will accomplish in me what He said He would, and my salvation does not at all depend on others sinners who say they are Christians but label me unsaved because their continual sinning or habitual sins are not near as bad as mine are.

Here is God's Gift to us, a gift that we can not earn with our own righteousness.

Jn 11:21-26

21 Martha then said to Jesus, " Lord, if You had been here, my brother would not have died. Even now I know that whatever You ask of God, God will give You."

Jesus said to her, "Your brother will rise again."

Martha said to Him, " I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."

Jesus said to her, " I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?" NASU

I do believe this.

ArtB

Ever consider what heaven would be like if it were populated with unrepentant sinners? You'd have a mess just like what we have now and, I, for one, am looking forward to escape it. Unless people learn obedience now, they will not practice it in heaven, either. But then they will never get there so a person does not have to worry about that.

How do I know this? Scripture informs us in Galatians 5:19-21: NASB

19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,

20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,

21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God

God will not allow unrepentant sinners into his Glory. The best a body can do is to inform a person of these realities, not encourage them to remain in their sin. Actually, this is a no-brainer.

"by EverestoSama on 2011/8/29 5:45:25 wrote:

["Would you consider a serial killer a Christian, if they still killed every now and then? Especially if they didn't see any problem with the occasional murder?

How about a Christian pedophile? We shouldn't say anything about that right?

I'm not saying someone who struggles with the temptation of these, but someone who still does them and doesn't seem to see a problem with them.

Remember that in the long list of those who would not inherit the kingdom of heaven Paul said, such WERE some of you, not such are.

Not that any of us were any better before Christ got a hold of us, but I shudder to think I could still call myself by the name of the sin that ensnared me before God let me have a new name.

Oh yes, love the homosexual. Love them so much that you're not scared to tell them that their lifestyle has consequences not only in this life, but in the life to come, and that they're only option IS to "Go and SIN NO MORE," no matter how unpopular it makes you.]

No, I would not make their homosexuality an issue. I want them to know who Jesus is, what He did for them should they accept His atoning blood covering that takes away all their sins. And then they will receive the Holy Spirit, and God will cleanse them from all unrighteousness, and love them.

Everest Sama. Your response to my prior post appeals to Sophistical Defenses. Sophistical Defenses are dodges or devices which are employed to protect a claim from objections.

The device that you are using is called a red herring. You introduced a serial killer, as well as pedophilia, into this conversation, that's two Red Herrings that you somehow think are equivalent to two adult men having sex in their privacy. It is not. Thus you have changed the topic to something totally different, in the hope that equating homosexuality to being a Serial killer, or to acts of Pedophilia. Shame on you for such an unethical reply, accusing me of giving Serial Killers and those who sexually abuse minors, a free pass.

And let me make it perfectly clear to you - EverestoSama, I would, If I could, share the gospel to a serial Killer, or to one who engaged in pedophilia, but unlike the Homosexuals I have been sharing the gospel with, I would witness to these felons in jail.

David Berkowitz was such a one, a murderer, but someone loved him and shared the gospel to David, and today he is a Christian, transformed into a new person through the workings of the indwelling Spirit.

And he is happy to stay in jail so he can continue to witness Jesus Christ to other prisoners who have also committed terrible crimes.

And I will forgive others of their sins just as God forgives mine.

As Billy Graham often said in his evangelical crusades,

COME AS YOU ARE, NOW IS THE TIME.

I just read your post right above, EverestoSama.

Did you know that before the Mosaic Law was given, homosexuality was legal?

Should I assume that when you became a Christian, that you stopped sinning before you accepted Jesus Christ and have been sinless ever since. Or do you just feel that your sins are not as bad as theirs, being more acceptable to God then theirs are.

Here is another verse from the letter of John, 1 John 1

1 Jn 1:5-10
This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. IF WE SAY THAT WE HAVE NOT SINNED, WE MAKE HIM A LIAR AND HIS WORD IS NOT IN US. NASU

From that last sentence I put in caps, I know you and I are sinners.

And that scripture is clear, as you measure others, so it will be measured unto you, you will be judged as you judged others. If we show mercy, God will show us mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgement. This is one of the Laws of the New Covenant, the Law of Liberty.

In my view, you a blocking them from God with demands that God did not put on you. Demands that you can not keep yourself, unless you really are sinless.

Let them accept Jesus as their Lord and savior, and let us have faith in God to do in them what He said He would do, transform their very nature. It's not our place to judge and condemn them, since we are saved despite our ongoing sins, solely through the atoning blood of Jesus, and certainly not because we are sinless.

Well said Everestosama,

But if homosexuality was "legal" then God would have unjustly killed those of Sodom and Gommorah. We are all so indebt to God its not even funny.

Our only hope is Christ Jesus, who said loud and clear Repent, and any man that doesn't take up his cross CAN'T be my disciple. We are called to death, this includes our sins and our old man, our ambitions, our dreams, our righteousness. And anything and everything is Christ, was Christ sexually immoral and was He in support of it? No.

I stand on this ground, I had to give up my sins when I came to Christ, this being my desire to sin against God without repercussions of that sin. I can't sin know ignorantly thinking "its all peaches and cream with God because He is graceful." No Paul tells us in Romans over and over again, so because Grace increases does this mean we should sin all the more so grace would increase? BY NO MEANS!

The fact is ANY man that submits its body willfully to sin is a slave to that sin. Christ's call is one to Freedom FROM Sin. Matthew 1:21 states that, "21 She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus,[a] because he will save his people from their sins.”

What a wonderful Salvation! I no longer have to be a lustful, adulterer, lying, murdering, theiving, hypocritical person but through Christ I can seek death to all of these on the Cross and become a Slave to Righteousness as Paul exhorts in Romans 6.

Is it right to judge these individuals? No Is it right to withhold what the bible says about their lifestyle so we don't offend them? No. We must speak the truth in LOVE and Compassion. And this means speaking all of the truth no matter how ugly.

What was 'legal' before the Mosiac law was given can only be assumed by careful study of the WORD. Nowhere do we find that God has set forth a law detailing what kind of behaviors was acceptable. However, this does not mean it did not exist, it just means the Scriptures does not share this information.

(I wish someone else would do this but since no one else will, here goes...)

Adam and Eve were absolutely perfect. They had perfect knowledge based on their relationship with God. They were ignorant of one thing and that is what would happen if and when man disobeys God. Armed with this sense one can assume they had a sense of rightness that was passed on to succeeding generations.

Consider Cain: there was no law that said "thou shalt no kill", yet God held him accountable. Apparently he knew what sin was. Where did this sense of wrongness/sin come from? Genesis 4:7 God tells Cain "sin lieth at the door." After he killed Abel Cain was very defensive...an innocent man is not defensive.

Fast forward to Genesis 6:3: God says "my spirit shall not always strive with man." Verse 5: "Then the LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great on the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." NASB

How did God teach these people? It mentions Spirit. Oh...OH!

Genesis 6:9: "Noah walked with God." In 2Peter 2:5 Noah is described as a "preacher of righteousness." How did Noah know what is righteous? The Spirit of God?

Fast forward some more to Abraham: Remember when Pharoah took Sarai but God intervened? Notice Pharoah's reaction to Abraham's deception? How did he know?

Or, what about Lot when he told the Sodomites they were acting wickedly when they asked for his visitors (males, assumed such by the Sodomites) in order to have sex with them? Gen. 19:5-7.

How did Joseph know it was wrong for him to lie with his master's wife?

Why were Jacob's sons outraged when they learned that their sister Dinah was taken advantage of by Shechem? Gen.34. What fueled this outrage?

On and on.

My point: Scriptures prove the people knew what was right and wrong before God gave the law to Moses on Mt. Sinai. They were not free to sin without repercussions before this event.

Sin is sin. God put that knowledge within the mind of man and when man spurns this knowledge he will give him/her over to a reprobate mind - one who has no conscience of right and wrong. Moderns sometimes calls these people sociopath.

Let us never be guilty of not challenging sin when we see it. Ever noticed the many times when Jesus healed people he told them "to go and sin no more"? This message has not changed any, has it?

The depth of sin is much bigger then we understand, we often on the surface with this subject. Is this not sin to eat plenty when the other person starves? We count sin as something personal, but it is also corporate, we work for the world that hates God, giving it our energy and talants and receive a pay from it. We are sold to sin and we need to be redeemed and we need to follow the Savior so God would not hold us accountable for taking part in the common crazyness.
And the biggest prove of it is a political decisions of our government who we vote for but who go against God. So only Jesus will do and also we must gather with Him and constantly invest in His Kigdom turning everything for the good of His Kingdom.