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Sinners must DO something TO BE SAVED!

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[b]God Does Not Accept Sinners “As They Are”[/b]
Sinners Must “Do Something To Be Saved”!

By Jesse Morrell

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch though in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.” 2Timothy 4:3-5

Many have turned away from sound doctrine, seeking fables that gratify themselves. Our holy Christianity is being replaced with a sinning Christendom. The marvelous transformation of heart and life is being replaced with a make believe covering of present and future sins. This false gospel leaves men comfortable in their sin, with an imaginary forgiveness, rather then calls me to leave their sin, making it possible for actual forgiveness.

It is with great zeal and urgency that we must seek to recover the lost gospel of repentance towards God and faith in Jesus Christ. It is with great anguish of heart and painfulness of soul that I perceive our most precious gospel under vicious fire, as many centuries of false and dangerous theology has paved the way to a complete denial of the call of the true gospel.

[b]TODAYS DANGERS OF A FALSE GOD WITH A FALSE GOSPEL[/b]

Today, many friendly, popular, big name preachers are just plain old fashion liars. The worst of lies can come from those who appear to be the best of men. In this era of apostasy, as in the former days of darkness, the worst of men are considered the best of men, while the best of men are considered to be the worst of men. These itching ear preachers exchange the truth of God for a lie and appeal to the sinful desires of men - easing the consciences of those yet in their sin, by declaring that God accepts them “as they are” and that they must not do anything in order to be saved.

My bible shows me that the preachers that the multitudes accept are the preachers the God Himself rejects, and the preachers that the multitudes reject are the preachers that God Himself accepts. The same preachers who declare to sinners, “God accepts you as you are” are the same preachers that God does not accept as they are. The same preachers who declare, “You cannot do anything to be saved” are the same preachers who are not doing what they must do in order to be saved!

God’s preachers are almost never popular and accepted, because we live in a sinful world with a backslidden Church. God’s preachers are often thrust out of the synagogues and locked up in the prisons. Those with an intolerant message towards sin, from a God who is intolerant of sin, will not be tolerated by those who want to remain in their sin! Religious sinners always consider preachers of repentance and holiness as “unsound” and “unorthodox”, even as “heretics”. Religious sinners crying out, “crucify him! Crucify him!” when they hear a “preacher of righteousness” (2Pet 2:5) cry out “Repent! Repent!”

“Thus says the Lord of host, hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophecy unto you; they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord. They say still unto them that despite me, The Lord hath said, ye shall have peace; and they say unto everyone that walks after the imagination of his own heart, no evil shall come upon you. For who hath stood in the counsel of the Lord, and hath perceived and heard his word? Who hath marked his word, and heard it?” Jeremiah 23:16-18

A false teacher will tell God’s enemies that God is at peace with them; telling sinners that God does not see their sin (Heb 4:13, Jeremiah 23:24) and that their sin will not harm them. (Isaiah 48:22, Isaiah 57:21)

“I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned them from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.” Jeremiah 23:21-22

A true prophet will tell God’s enemies that they must turn from their sin; a true prophet is a preacher of repentance and holiness, a preacher of righteousness, not an excuser of sinfulness and backslidings! Those who stand in God’s counsel will know God, and will not misrepresent God or His requirements, but will tell sinners exactly what God wants them to do in order to be saved.

The true word of God is sharper then a “double edged sword” (Heb 4:12), being as a burning “fire”, or as a “hammer breaking” into pieces hard hearts (Jer 23:29), but the words of false prophets are “lightness” (Jer 23:32) and “fair speeches” that are deceptive a destructive (Rom 16:18), with their messages of “peace, peace” for the wicked. (Isaiah 48:22, 57:21)

All over Christian radio, Christian TV; in Christian magazines and Christian books; from pulpits all over Christian Churches; from podiums in Christian Seminaries and Christian Colleges, false – fable – fairy tales are being preached about a false – fable – fairy tale god! This demonic god, this sin accepting god, this mamby pampy, soft, sin-overlooking god, with a soul destroying gospel, accepts all sinners as they are - not requiring of them anything in order to be saved! Some have gone even further by saying that it is not only acceptable to God for sinners to have sin in their lives, but that it is also accepted to God for Christians to have sin in their lives! This god is lawless; this gospel is the old dreadful heresy of antinomianism! And it’s poisoning the veins of the Church at an increasingly ramped rate, killing the holy spiritual life of the body!

The God of the bible does not tolerate sin. God’s problem with mankind is that mankind has been at war with His Sovereign Will of holiness and righteousness by being disobedient and wicked. A rebellion against the Sovereign Will of God is what the fall and sinfulness of man is. To deny a rebellion against God’s Sovereign Will is a denial of the fall and sinfulness of man, or is the blasphemy that God Sovereign Will is for men to sin and to do evil, but such a god is not the Holy God of the bible. The actual, real, and genuine Sovereign Will of God is that sinners, “sin no more” (John 5:14, John 8:11, Eph 4:28) And sinners resist and reject this Will, being at war with and rebellion against the Sovereign of the Universe, despising and trampling under foot God’s holy and good plan for their life (Matthew 23:37, Luke 7:30), which holiness and godliness is the very purpose for their existence! (Eph 1:4)

[b]GOD DOES NOT ACCEPT SINNERS AS THEY ARE![/b]

Nothing can be a more false message, a greater distortion of God, then telling sinners that, “God accepts you as you are” and that “sinners must not do anything to be saved”. That is simply not true! That’s a lie! Jesus did not preach such a god and such a gospel! Jesus said a man must be born again to be acceptable unto God! (John 3:3). Jesus said a sinner must repent or else he would perish! (Luke 13:3) Jesus said only the pure in heart, not the sinful in heart, would see God! (Matt 5:8) Peter did not preach a sinner-accepting-god! Peter said that God resists the proud! Peter said God accepts only the humble! (1Peter 5:5-6) The proud must humble themselves to be accepted by God. Jesus is “the author of eternal salvation” only to “them that obey Him”! (Heb 5:9)

“God accepts you as you are” sinners are told. God accepts who as they are? Does God accept everybody as they are? Does God accept sinners as they are? What does God accept them into? Where does God accept them into? Does God accept them into His family? Never! Not unless they keep His commandments. (1John 3:10) Does God accept them into His Kingdom? Never! Not until they are born again. (John 3:3) Does God accept them into Heaven? Never! Not unless they cease from all their sinning and rebelling in this life. (Rev 22:15) The only thing that God accepts from a sinner is true and total repentance, the complete renunciation of all sin and rebellion. And until then, nothing a sinner does is acceptable, and a sinner is not accepted anywhere except into hell-fire.

If God accepts you as you are, and you must not do anything to be saved, remain a drunkard or a fornicator, remain a whore or a whoremonger, remain a sodomite or a homosexual, remain a transgressor and a sinner, remain a failure and a loser if God accepts you as you are, for there is no reason for you to change. But this is as unbiblical as possibly conceivable: 1Cor 6:9-10, Gal 5:19-21, Rev 21:8. We know that “every transgression and disobedience will receive a just penalty” (Heb 2:2) for those who “neglect so great salvation”. (Heb 2:3)

You cannot be a Christian drug dealer, a Christian murderer, a Christian adulterer, a Christian bank robber, etc; you cannot be a “carnal Christian” or a “sinning saint”. Only Christ-like Christians are in fact Christians, those who name the name of Christ by calling themselves Christians, who actually depart from iniquity, that is, actually turn from sin. (2Tim 2:19) Christians must love righteousness and hate iniquity! (Heb 1:9) Christians “keep his commandments and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.” (1John 3:22)

Irrefutable Scripture tells us, “He that says, I know him, and does not keep his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.” (1John 2:4) “We know that whosoever is born of God sins not; but he that is begotten of God keeps himself, and the wicked one touches him not.” (1John 5:18) And, “He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifest, that he might destroy the work of the devil.” (1John 3:8) And, “Whosoever abides in him does not sin: for whosoever sins has not seen him, neither known him.” (1John 3:6) And, “Whosoever transgresses, and abides not in the doctrine of Christ, has not God. He that abides in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.” (2John 1:9)

(( All this is not to say that a Christian may not temporarily fall into sin, or is not capable of backsliding completely. Since the human will is free and contingent, man’s moral character must also be free and contingent, able to change from righteous to evil or evil to righteous at any moment. A Christian, though dead to sin, still has the capacity of sinning, and of backsliding completely and forever, but he must repent or else he will perish.

Some new converts may strongly struggle with sin and backsliding, some more then others depending on their back rounds. They will need to be encouraged to “continue in the faith” (Acts 14:22) and to “continue in the grace of God”. (Acts 13:43) Some disciples have backslidden completely and followed Christ no more. (John 6:66)

Paul told Christians, “For if you live after the flesh, you shall die: but if you through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, you shall life.” (Romans 8:13) And again Paul told Christians, “For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end.” (Heb 3:14) Paul warned the brethren, “Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.” (Heb 3:12) And again Paul speaks of the punishment of a Christian who falls from sanctification, “Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who has trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?” (Heb 10:29) James says, “For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.” (2Pet 2:21) And James speaks of Christians, “Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; let him know, that ye which converts the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.” (James 5:19-20) The only way one of the Brethren, that becomes a backslider, can escape the death of his soul, is by being reconverted unto obedience to Christ. For Jesus told His disciples, that only repented sins were forgivable sins. (Luke 13:3) ))

But it is the preaching of an all accepting god that has filled our Churches with fornicators, homosexuals, drunkards, sodomites, liars, thieves, backsliders, and all sorts of wickedness and ungodliness. Sinners fill the pews and backsliders occupy the pulpits. God’s house, which is to be a house of prayer, with holy men lifting up holy hands (1Tim 2:8), has turned into a den of sinners!! (Matt 21:13, Mark 11:17, Luke 19:46) While our Church buildings may be full of sin, there can be no sin in God, and those in Him can have no sin, for God takes away our sin! (1John 3:5)

But who is to blame for this darkness and deception within Christendom? Those whom Christ has left as the light of the world are to blame (Matt 5:14), the preachers and true Christians are to blame for not taking a bold and public stand against this false god and this false gospel!

Does this scripture describe a God who accepts everyone as they are? “And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. And it repented the Lord that He had made man on the earth, and it grieved Him at His heart. And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping things, and the fowls of the air, for I repent of making them.” Genesis 6:5-7

Does this sound like the preaching of a God who does not require from sinners anything in order to be saved from his wrath? “Therefore now amend your ways and your dongs, and obey the voice of the Lord your God; and the Lord will repent himself of the evil that he hath pronounced against you.” Jeremiah 26:13

And again, “If that nation, against whom I have pronounced destruction, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it; if it does evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them. Now therefore go to speak to the men of Judah, and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, saying, Thus says the Lord; behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a devise against you: return ye now every one from his evil way, and make your ways and your doings good.” Jeremiah 18:8-11

Gospel preachers are not the brothers or cousins of secular motivational speakers; we come from a different family all together. Gospel preachers are the descendants of the Hebrew prophets, and I pray we learn from our elders.

It’s clear as daylight that sinners have no problem with preachers preaching the Savior hood of Christ. It is not the Savior sinners are in rebellion against. It’s the Sovereignty of God that sinners are at war with, that is, it’s the Lordship of Christ that sinners are rebelling against! And it is this war, this rebellion, that must cease before pardon and forgiveness can be mercifully and graciously extended by God. (Acts 2:38)

[b]THE “JUST BELIEVE” DECEPTION[/b]

The gospel is not merely to be assented to, or intellectually affirmed; but the true gospel requires heart obedience – heart submission – heart surrender (Rom 6:17, Rom 10:16, Phil 2:12, 1Pet 1:22), and those who do not “obey the gospel” will be destroyed when Christ returns. (Rom 2:8, Gal 3:1, Gal 5:7, 2Thes 1:8, 1Pet 4:17) The truth is not only to be believed, but the truth is to be walked in! (2John 1:4) And those who do not walk in the truth, “do not the truth” (1John 1:6), for the truth is not merely to be believed, but it is to be done! Disobedience has always been the problem that our Sovereign has with rebels, and obedience is what the true gospel requires of sinners.

“Just believe! Just believe!” cries the false gospel of “easy believism”. “Romans 10:9! Romans 10:9” is their constant cry. But if these sinners would read on, to Romans 10:10, they would see that it is only those who “believe unto righteousness” that shall be saved. For no one can “believe in your heart” without “believing unto righteousness”!

We must preach the Kingdom, or Government of God! (Luke 4:43, Luke 9:2, Luke 9:60) We must preach the “gospel of the Kingdom”, or the gospel of God’s Government! (Matt 4:23, Matt 9:35, Matt 24:14, Mark 1:14) And in this Kingdom there is a King (1Tim 6:15, Heb 7:1, Rev 17:14, Rev 19:16), and this King sent His son to die for his rebellious citizens (John 3:16, Luke 20:13), that those who cease their rebellion (Isaiah 1:16), putting an end to their sinning (Luke 13:3), may have gracious pardon and mercy given unto them for all of their past sins (Rom 3:24-26), being washed from all their old sins (2Pet 1:9), that they may be restored into a right relationship with their Sovereign whom they have been rebelling against! (Heb 8:12, Heb 10:17) That is our most glorious, most precious, most beautiful gospel given unto us in the Holy Scriptures, which God wants to reach all sinners with (Matt 28:19-20, Mark 16:15), using men full of the Holy Ghost (Acts 1:8), speaking as the very oracles of God! (1Pet 4:11)

But the theologians and preachers of today are saying that, “sinners must not do anything to be saved”. They are liars that know nothing about the gospel. To save their precious theologies, they do away with the foundations of the faith! The foundation of the faith, the first principles of Christ’s doctrine, is repentance and faith the bible tells us! (Heb 6:1)

The devil wants us to believe that we are to tell sinners to do nothing, so then all evangelism is abruptly halted! If sinners are not responsible to do anything, then evangelists and preachers will not tell sinners, as John Baptist publicly cried – as Jesus Christ publicly yelled – and as the Apostles publicly declared, “Repent ye and believe the gospel!” (Mark 1:15) We are not suppose to go everywhere preaching that men are to do nothing, but we are to go everywhere preaching that men are to repent! (Mark 6:12) We are to testify to all, not that they are to do nothing towards God and are to do nothing towards Jesus Christ, but that they are to repent towards God and put their faith in Jesus Christ! (Acts 20:21)

George Otis Jr. said in his book, “God’s Trademarks”, “we are told there is no real cost involved in spiritual conversion. What are we to think when Jesus is presented as our servant rather then our Lord? When ministers highlight all that appeals to our self-interest, is it any surprise that our thoughts center on the question, ‘How do I come out?’ Does not this render salvation itself a purely selfish concept?” Pg 139.

And it’s true, Savior hood without Lordship is a selfish gospel; Jesus represented as your servant rather then as your Lord and Sovereign is a heretical and grievous error! Yet it is often represented as a heretical and grievous error the other way around! But we must present the Sovereignty of God in conversion! That is, we must declare the requirement of the Lordship of Christ in salvation!

The brilliant revivalists and theologian of the seventeenth century, John Fletcher, in his classic “Checks to Antinomianism”, said in his most sarcastic manner, “But if the Son of God be a heretic for putting the unbelieving Jews upon working…St Paul is undoubtedly an arch-heretic for corroborating it by a strong preposition… he says to the Philippians, work out – and what is most astonishing, ‘work out your salvation.’ Your own salvation! Why, Paul, this is even worst… Ah! Poor legal apostle, what a pity it is thou didst not live in our evangelical age! Some, by explaining to thee the mystery of a ‘finished salvation,’ or by ‘protesting…against thy dreadful heresy,’ might have saved ‘the fundamental doctrines of Christianity:’ pg 32

Again Fletcher humorously says, “We have received it as a maxim that a man is to do nothing for justification. Nothing can be more false. Whoever desires to find favor with God, should ‘cease from evil, and learn to do well.’ ‘Whoever repents, should do works meet for repentance.’ And if this be not in order to find favor, what does he do them for?... The express declarations of God’s word: - ‘To him that ordereth his conversion aright will I show the salvation of God.’ Is ‘ordering our conversation aright’ doing nothing? ‘Repent ye, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out.’ Are ‘repentance and conversion’ nothing? ‘Come unto me, all ye that are heavy laden, and I will give you rest,’ I will justify you. Is ‘coming’ doing nothing? ‘Cease to do evil, learn to do well. Come now, let us reason together, and though your sins be read as crimson they shall be white as snow’ you shall be justified. Is ‘ceasing to do evil and learning to do well’ doing nothing? ‘Seek the Lord while he may be found, call upon him while he is near. Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.’ Is ‘seeking, calling, forsaking one’s way, and returning to the Lord,’ a mere nothing? ‘Ask, and you shall receive; seek and you shall find; knock, and it will be open unto you.’ Be ‘violent, take even the kingdom by force.’ Is ‘seeking, asking, knocking, and taking by force’ doing absolutely nothing? Please to answer these questions; and when you have done, I will throw one or two hundred more of the like kind your way.” Pg 35

[b]WHAT MUST SINNERS DO TO BE SAVED?[/b]

“What good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?” (Matt 19:16, Mark 10:17, (Luke 3:10, Luke 3:12, Luke 3:14, Luke 10:25, Luke 18:18, John 6:28-29, Acts 2:37, Acts 16:30)

When Jesus was asked, “what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?” (Matt 19:16, Mark 10:17, Luke 10:25, Luke 18:18) Did Jesus respond by saying, “Nothing! You cannot do anything good to be saved!” No! In the multiple of times that Jesus was asked this eternally important question that was never His answer. Jesus responded with, “thou shalt not… thou shalt not… thou shalt not…” (Matt 19:18-19, Mark 10:19, Luke 10:26, Luke 18:20) “Do this and ye shall live.” (Luke 10:28) Jesus did not say, “do nothing” but rather said “do this”!

And this is the crux or the core of the problem that God our Sovereign has with fallen mankind! They have rejected His Sovereign decrees of “thou shalt not”! Sinners do not want the Sovereign Lord to reign over them (Luke 19:14, Luke 19:27), they reject the eternal counsel of God for their own salvation! (Luke 7:30, Luke 13:34) And this problem must be remedied before pardon can be extended.

“Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.” Isaiah 55:7

But the answer of our perfect Lord, as to what a sinner “must do” in order to be saved, is the essence of true repentance! Repentance is to turn away from sin, to cease from sinning, to no longer do what God has declared “thou shalt not” do. Repentance is to “Forsake” and to “return”. That is repentance, and that is what Jesus told a sinner he “must do” if he wanted to live. Because unless a man repents, the blood of Jesus Christ cannot cover him! (Heb 10:26-31) If “thou shalt not” does not teach the essence of true repentance then it doesn’t teach anything at all!

Jesus was asked, “What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?” What did He say? “Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” (John 6:28-29) Without men doing this work, this work of believing upon the Son that God sent, men cannot be saved! (John 3:18) No man can be justified without the work of repenting and believing. (James 2:21-25) These works do not merit or earn salvation, so we are not saved “by them”, since nobody is saved by works (1Tim 1:9, Titus 3:5), but these works are necessary and are required for salvation, so that we are not saved “without them”. Nobody can be saved who does not keep God’s commandments, “and this is his commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.” (1John 3:23)

When John the Baptist preached hell-fire, men cried out, “what shall we do” (Luke 3:10, Luke 3:12, Luke 3:14) he told them to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance! He did not say, “You must not do anything!” But rather John the Baptist preached, “Every tree therefore that does not bring forth good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire!” (Luke 3:9) He told sinners exactly what they need to do! (Luke 3:9-14)

When Peter was asked, “what shall we do?” (Acts 2:37) Peter did not say “Make sure that you do nothing!” Rather, Peter said, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.” (Acts 2:38) And he continued to exhort them to, “Save yourselves from this perverse generation!” (Acts 2:40) This is a far cry from a passive “easy-believism”, or a “do-nothing-to-get-saved” type message.

When Paul was asked, “what must I do to be saved” (Acts 16:30) did Paul respond with, “You cannot do anything to be saved! It’s heresy to assume you must do something to be saved. Make sure that you do nothing!” That is not what the inspired Apostle said. Paul said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou will be saved.” (Acts 16:31) He did not say believe on the Savior Jesus Christ, but the Lord Jesus Christ!

God tells us that not everyone who declares Jesus as Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but those who actually do the will of the Sovereign! (Matthew 7:21-22, Luke 6:46) Christ’s family consists of those who “hear the Word of God, and do it.” (Luke 8:21) God requires that we be “hearers of the word” and also “a doer” of it! (James 1:23) It is only “he that does the will of God” that “abides forever” (1John 2:17) “If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that everyone that does righteousness is born of him” (1John 2:29) And again we are warned to “let no” preacher or theologian “deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.” (1John 3:7)

Why was John the Baptist, Jesus Christ, the Apostle Peter, and the Apostle Paul so successful in winning souls? Because they told sinners what they needed to do in order to be saved. And why were men like George Fox, John Wesley, William Booth, Charles Finney, and other giants of the faith such amazing soul winners? Because they knew the true gospel and the true God! And they told sinners what they needed to do in order to be saved! And why were so many other Christians and “theologians” so pathetic when it came to soul winning? Why did sinners not do anything under their sermons? Because their sermons told them to do nothing! If you tell sinners to do nothing, don’t be surprised if they do nothing!

[b]THE GROUND OF CONDITIONAL SALVATION[/b]

The ground of salvation is the reason for salvation, which is God’s mercy and grace made possible through the loving sacrifice of Christ’s blood. (Eph 2:8-9) But the conditions for salvation are the terms of salvation, without which salvation cannot occur; which conditions consist of repentance (Luke 13:3), faith (Heb 11:6), and perseverance (Mark 13:13). Nobody is saved because they repent, believe, and persevere (as though these were the ground or reason for justification) but rather those that are saved are saved by God’s gracious mercy and not their own running or willing (Rom 9:16). But none can be saved who do not repent, believe, and persevere; for God’s gracious mercy is extended only to the faithful and repentant, to those who meet the terms and conditions. Repentance and faith are the undeniable conditions of salvation – salvation cannot occur “without” these; but these are not the ground of salvation – salvation does not occur “because of” these.

While running does not save you (Rom 9:16), nobody can be saved who does not run lawfully. (1Cor 9:24-27) God saves (elects, chooses) only those who repent and believe, and finally saves (elects, chooses) only those who persevere unto the end.

Sinners cannot save themselves, i.e. through their own works or goodness; but men must do something, i.e. repent and believe, in order for Jesus to be able to save them!! Sinners can never earn, merit, or deserve salvation; but all sinners must receive salvation in order to be saved! It is not our own works that pardon us, nor our own wills that pardon us, but it is God’s grace and mercy that pardons us. It is God who justifies (Rom 8:33) but who does He justify? Those who repent and believe! Sinners cannot pardon their own crimes, only God can. But criminals in God’s government must first meet the conditions of pardon before God is willing or able to extend pardon to all of their past crimes, before God is willing to choose to forgive them and restore them.

So the ground of the conditional salvation that God offers is His grace and mercy through the cross, but the conditions of that salvation is repentance, faith, and perseverance.

Without Jesus Christ nobody can be saved or have forgiveness. (John 14:6, 1John 5:12) And it is our sin that separates us from God. (Isaiah 59:2) Therefore the one who has come to Jesus Christ, who is now reconciled unto God, must have left his sin behind! Jesus saves us from sin, not merely from the guilt of sin and the consequence of sin, but from the sin itself! (Matt 1:21) And nobody can come to God accept through Christ! (1John 1:5) All those who are forgiven – pardoned – justified – or saved, those who are reconciled, are those who have repented and believed, for God only forgives – pardons – justifies – or saves those who repent and believe.

Without repentance there can be no reconciliation, for it is the sin that causes the separation. You cannot have separation and reconciliation at the same time. If sin causes the separation, in order for reconciliation to come then the sin needs to go! Men need to choose either the Savior or their sin; they need to choose separation through sin or reconciliation through Christ, for they cannot have both!

[b]THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION WITHOUT REPENTANCE![/b]

Repentance from sin must come prior to justification (Luke 13:3), or else God justifies the wicked! But he that justifies the wicked is an abomination! (Prov 17:15). Such a god, who justifies without repentance, is an abomination; but our Holy and Just God only justifies the repentant! The impenitent are never justified while in a state of impenitence, but are rather storing up wrath because of their utter refusal to come to Jesus, because of their voluntary hardness and willful impenitence! (Rom 2:5)

In his 1886 edition of, “Bible Salvation and Popular Religion Contrasted,” the Methodist Rev. A. Sims wrote, “True repentance implies a knowledge of sin – sorrow for sin, and confession of it. But its chief characteristic is a turning from sin – from all sin – a turning to God. The person who truly repents, forsakes sin with abhorrence. Every darling idol is cast aside – unsaved associates, bad habits, the cup, the pipe, dishonest dealing, swearing, joking, Sabbath breaking, deceptive language, and the fashions of the world – all are given up. Yes, gospel repentance stops a man from sinning.” Pg 98

Again he wrote, “The conditions of salvation are plainly stated to be, ‘repentance towards God, and faith in our Lord Jesus Christ.’…Repentance is… necessary to pardon. This is a fact logically, scripturally, and morally…Because, as faith is absolutely indispensable to pardon, and as faith cannot be exercised without repentance, he therefore, who does not repent, cannot be forgiven.” Pg 99

“Godly sorrow” leads to “repentance to salvation”. (2Cor 7:10) And this godly sorrow that leads to repentance unto salvation is marked by definite characteristics: “carefulness”, a “clearing of yourselves”, “indignation”, “fear”, “vehement desire”, “zeal” and “revenge!” (2Cor 7:11) This and only this proves true sorrow and true repentance.

In his 1924 edition of, “The Plan of Salvation”, the Baptist minister Austin Couch said, “The two conditions of salvation are internal and not external acts or performances. The two conditions are repentance and faith…These are the two conditions, and there is nothing else. Well have they been called inseparable graces. If one repents toward God, he will surely exercise faith towards Jesus Christ. If one has exercised faith in Jesus Christ, then it is true that he has also repented of his sins.” Pg 74-75

Repentance requires faith, and faith requires repentances, so that one can never exist without the other! Justification without repentance is just as much a fable dream as justification without faith, for both are a vain fantasy, a delusional dream, that will never come to fruition. And these empty dreams leave many spiritually empty, without the blessed salvation of God, without the precious forgiveness of sins!

In her “Papers on Godliness” 1881 edition, Catherine Booth said that “repentance” is an “indispensable condition of salvation” pg 92. To clarify this condition Catherine said, “What is repentance? Repentance is simply renouncing sin - turning round from darkness to light - from the power of Satan unto God. This is giving up sin in your heart, in purpose, in intention, in desire, resolving that you will give up every evil thing, and do it now” pg 94-95

Infallible Inspiration tells us that it is not hearers of the law, but the doers of the law that shall be justified! (Romans 2:13) That is to say, only those who repent can be justified by God’s grace through faith in Christ’s blood, being justified by working faith or by a faith that repents! (James 2:20-24) Faith requires repentances and repentances require faith. Repentance without faith is not repentance; faith without repentance is not faith; there is an interdependent relationship which is inseparable between true faith and true repentance.

True faith never results in being overcome by the world, being left in sin, but in overcoming the world, having victory over sin! “For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” (1John 5:4-5) Where there is no overcoming victory there is no faith, but where there is faith there must be overcoming victory.

We are commanded to “add to your faith virtue” (2Pet 1:5) with “diligence” (2Pet 1:10). And “if ye do” this (2Pet 1:10) you “make your calling and election sure”. (1Pet 1:10) For God only elects, or chooses to save those who repent, believe, and persevere unto the end.

We are to never cease in “labors of love” and in “works of faith” (1Thes 1:3, Heb 6:10). Love and faith must accompany one another! (Eph 6:23, 1Tim 1:14, 2Tim 1:13) Faith in the Lord must result in love towards others! (Eph 1:15, Eph 3:17, Col 1:4, Phm 1:5) And if we love one another, we will not sin against one another, (Rom 13:11) for love is the fulfillment of the law. (Rom 13:8, Gal 6:14, James 2:8, 1Tim 1:5) We must be “perfect in love” (1John 4:17-18) and if we are not then we cannot have “boldness in the Day of Judgment.” (1John 4:17) The one who has a “perfect heart (1Kings 8:61, 1Kings 11:4, 1Kings 15:3, 1Kings 15:14, 2Kings 20:3, 1Chron 12:38, 1Chron 28:9, 1Chron 29:9, 2Chron 15:17, 2Chron 16:9, 2Chron 19:9, 2Chron 25:2, Ps 101:2, Isaiah 38:3) is one who has no intention to sin, no plans on sinning, but has been perfected in love. It is only those who are “pure in heart” that “shall see God” and will “ascend the hill of the Lord”. (Ps 24:3-5, Matt 5:8)

[b]WHAT MAKES THE DIFFERENCE?[/b]

God wants everyone to be saved. (Eze 33:11, 2Pet 3:9) And Jesus Christ died on the cross for all, so that everyone could have the possibility of being saved (John 1:29, John 3:16, Rom 5:18, 2Cor 5:19, Heb 2:9, Col 1:20, 2Tim 2:4-6, 1John 2:22, 1John 4:15, 1Tim 4:10). What was God’s intention and purpose in the atonement? “The Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.” (1John 4:14) But man must repent and believe in order to be saved. The only thing that keeps men back from being saved is their own impenitence and unbelief, their own unwillingness! (Luke 13:34, John 5:40) God wants everyone to be saved, but He only saves those who meet the terms and conditions. God elects only those who repent and believe, for God cannot choose to forgive the unbelieving and the impenitent. God wills the salvation of all, but they must not reject God’s will for their own salvation! (Luke 7:30) It is their own unwillingness that hinders God from saving them and the blood from covering them, though God is willing and able to save. (Isaiah 59:1-2)

Sin and impenitence is not God’s fault, its man’s fault, for God wants all men to stop their sinning and rebellion and to be reconciled and forgiven. God wills is never that men should sin, but always that men should turn from sin, so that He can forgive their sin. Sin is always contrary to God’s will, always contrary to God’s Sovereign plan, and so sin and impenitence is always the fault of man’s free will, and never the fault of God’s Sovereign decrees, since His Sovereign decrees respecting sin consist in “thou shalt not”.

So then what is the difference between those who are saved and those who are damned? It is not the cross of Jesus Christ, for Jesus died for them all. And it is not the will of God, for God wants everyone to be saved. What then is the difference? They difference is what they actually do, how they actually respond. The difference is that the former surrender their will to God, the latter rebel in their hearts against God! The former accept the terms and conditions of salvation, the latter refuse to submit and surrender to the Lord Jesus Christ. The defining difference between the lost and the saved is that one “obeys the gospel” from the heart; the other “obeys not the gospel” at all. (Rom 2:8, Rom 6:17, Rom 10:16, Gal 3:1, Gal 5:7, 2Thes 1:8, Phil 2:12, 1Pet 1:22, 1Pet 4:17) And so salvation is not grounded upon mans heart obedience to the gospel, but salvation is conditioned upon mans heart obedience to the gospel, and it is only their disobedience to the gospel – their voluntary impenitence, which hinders them from being saved and prevents their sins from being forgiven.

In his 1896 edition of, “The Gospel Preacher”, B. Franklin wrote, “Men must do something to be saved... The difference between the wise and the foolish was not that one class heard while the other did not, nor that one class believed while the other did not, but that one class did what was required in the teachings of Jesus, while the other did not. The whole matter turned on doing and not doing what the Lord commanded. The matter…turned on…doing or not doing the commandments of God… The Lord requires man to do something in order to be saved…Any theory that leads men and women to disobey God is wrong. Any theory that leads men and women to do nothing, when God has commanded them to do something, is sinful.” Pg 103-104, 106

God commands all men everywhere to repent (Acts 17:30). God does not command all men everywhere to do nothing, but commands all men everywhere to repent! And this is the message that we must preach, any other message is wrong and sinful.

[b]THE FINISHED ATONEMENT OF CHRIST[/b]

The finished work of Christ (John 17:4, John 19:30) has made it possible for the whole world to be saved, if the whole world repents, believes, and perseveres unto the end. Christ has finished His work in making salvation possible for every sinner that is in a state of probation; but now sinners must do their part by repenting, believing, and persevering unto the end. (Rev 22:17) The finished work of Christ saves only those who voluntarily repent, believe, and persevere unto the end, and cannot save anyone who does not. The finished work of Christ makes it possible for God to conditionally forgive all men; but the finished work of Christ does not make salvation automatic or unconditional for any man. The finished work of Christ only secures the salvation of those who repent, believe, and persevere.

In her 1887 edition of “Popular Christianity”, Catherine Booth said, “It is to be feared that thousands are looking to Him to save them from consequences of sin – that is, hell – who continue to commit sin; they utterly misunderstand the aim and work of the Christ of God. They do not see that He came not merely to bring men to heaven, but to bring them back into harmony with His Father; they look upon the atonement as a sort of make-shift plan by which they are to enter heaven, leaving their characters unchanged on earth. They forget that sin is a far greater evil in the Divine estimation than hell; they do not see that sin is the primal evil. If there were no sin there need be no hell. God only proposes to save people from the consequences of sin by saving them from sin itself; and this is the great distinguishing work of Christ – to save His people from their sins!” pg 22

“They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him.” (Titus 1:16)

The finished work of Christ makes it possible for repented sins to be forgiven; only repented sins are forgivable sins. Pardon of sin without repentance from sin is a license to sin, a license which our true and Holy God will never give, but only the preaching of a false and filthy god promises such a license.

So the finished work of Christ makes salvation possible to everyone, but without repentance and faith salvation is actual for none. Evangelism is vitally important after the cross, because while the possibility of salvation through the cross is finished, the actual salvation through the cross is not finished until sinners repent and believe. Salvation can now be offered to all because of the finished atonement, but salvation is not granted to any until they first turn from sin and trust in Christ.

[b]THIS HEREDICAL DAY OF DARKNESS AND ERROR[/b]

But this dark day of error and heresy was foretold, when false prophets and lying theologians would deny the Sovereignty or Lordship of Christ:

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their destructive ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.” 2Pet 2:1-2

“For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.” Jude 1:4

Dying the Lordship of Christ is a “damnable heresy”! False prophets and lying theologians do not deny the “Savior that bought them” or “the only Savior God, and our Savior Jesus Christ”, but they deny the “Lord that bought them” and “the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. And “many” will follow this “destructive way” which will result with “the way of truth” being “evil spoken of”.

This is a deception, rooted in the sinful wills of men, that has made many preachers popular and wealthy, but keeps the souls of whoever believes such a false doctrine in condemnation. No sinner has ever been saved who did not first repent or turn away from all sin, ceasing the commission of transgression; neither scripture nor history can be used to show the justification of the wicked, but only the justification of the repentant. Impenitent men are always unsaved men, and can never become saved men, until they become repentant men. The white flag of surrender must first be waved by the rebels before the war between God and man can be ended. And the prisoners that the Lord takes captive become “servants of righteousness” (Rom 6:16-20), being “dead to sin” (Rom 6:2, 6:11); for true Christians are “free from sin” (Rom 6:18, Rom 6:20, Rom 6:22, Rom 8:2). “Jesus answered them, verily, verily, I say unto you, whosoever commits sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abides not in the house forever: but the Son abides forever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed.” (John 8:34-36)

Charles Kingsley wrote, in his 1897 edition of “True Repentance”, “You need neither book nor sermon to teach you those Ten Commandments which hang here over the communion table; all that books and tracts and sermons can do is to teach you how to keep those Commandments in spirit and in truth; but I am sure I have seen people read books, and run about to sermons, in order to enable them to forget those Ten Commandments; in order to find excuses for not keeping them and to find doctrines which tell them that, because Christ has done all, they need do nothing… Do you think your sins are washed away in Christ’s blood, when they are still, and you are committing them? Would they be there, and you doing them, if they were put away? Do you think that your sins can be put away out of God’s sight, if they are not even put out of your own sight? If you are doing wrong, and do you think that God will treat you as if you are doing right? Cannot God see in you what you see in yourselves? Do you think a man can be clothed in Christ’s righteousness at the very same time that he is clothed in his own unrighteousness? ... Be not deceived. God is not mocked. What a man sows, that shall he reap. He that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as Christ is righteous, and no one else.” Pg 9-11

Again Kingsley wrote, “There is full, free, and perfect forgiveness for every sin when we give it up. As soon as a man turns around, and, instead of doing wrong, tries to do right, he need be under no manner of fear or terror any more…But as long as a man does not give up his sins, the dark score does stand against him in God’s books; and no praying, or reading, or devoutness of any king, will wipe it out; and as long as he sins he is still in his sins, and his sins will be his ruin. Whosoever tells him that they are whipped out, he, too, lies, and contradicts flatly God’s holy Word.” Pg 12

The great revivalists and theologian Charles Finney, in his 1868 edition of “Lectures on Revivals of Religion” wrote, “Tell the sinner to repent… Sinners should be told to believe the gospel… Tell the sinner to give his heart to God… Submit to God… confess and forsake your sins… Another proper direction would be ‘choose you this day whom you shall serve;” pg 488, 491, 492, 493, 494, 496.

Modern Christianity needs to receive this simple and sound advice, from a soul winner who had converted hundreds of thousands of souls; the vast majority of which converts persevered to the end of their lives. (True converts are not measured by how many people do nothing, but by how many people actually turn to God and stay saved)

Finney also said, in his 1851 edition of, “Lectures on Systematic Theology” that, “Repentance is… a condition of justification. Observe, I here also use the term condition, in the sense of a ‘not without which’ and not in the sense of a ‘that for the sake of which’ the sinner is justified. It must be certain that the government of God cannot pardon sin without repentance. This is as truly a doctrine of natural as well as revealed religion. It is self-evident that, until the sinner breaks off from sins by repentance or turning to God, he cannot be justified in any sense. This is everywhere assumed, implied, and taught in the bible. No reader of the bible can call this into question.” Pg 466

Men must accept Jesus Christ in order to be justified and saved. To as many as first receive Christ - to them He gives the privilege to become the sons of God. (John 1:12) Receiving Christ is a prerequisite to become a child of God, to be transferred out of the family of the devil and into the family of God; but to receive Christ is to receive all of Christ – as both Savior and Lord. You cannot accept Jesus Christ in pieces. You must accept Jesus Christ in all of His offices! Christ must be accepted as Savior and Lord or else He cannot and will not save and forgive the sins of anyone.

The saintly A. W. Tozer said, in the 1969 “Gems from Tozer” publication, “Christ’s savior hood is forever united to His lordship. Christ must be Lord or He will not be Savior. To teach that Christ will use His sacred power to further our worldly interests is to wrong our Lord and injure our own souls. We modern evangelicals need to learn the truths of the sovereignty of God and the lordship of Christ. God will not play along with Adam; Christ will not be used by any of Adam’s selfish brood. We had better learn these things fast if this generation of young Christians is to be spared the supreme tragedy of following a Christ who is merely a Christ of convenience and not the true Lord of glory after all.” Pg 12

Again Tozer wrote, “Faith and morals are the two sides of the same coin. Indeed the very essence of faith is moral. Any professed faith in Christ as personal Savior that does not bring the life under plenary obedience to Christ as Lord is inadequate and must betray its victim at the last. The man that believes will obey. God gives faith to the obedient heart only. Where real repentance is, there is obedience. To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.” Pg 25

It is just as heretical to subtract repentance from the gospel as it is heretical to subtract works from faith. Just as faith without works cannot save a single soul (James 2:14), neither can a gospel without repentance save anybody. Faith without works is a dead faith, and a gospel without repentance is a deadly gospel! Take the new birth out of the gospel, and you have no gospel to preach, and your listeners will surely perish!

In his classic, “Alarm to Unconverted Sinners” Joseph Alleine said, “All of Christ is accepted by the sincere convert: he loves not only the wages, but the work of Christ; not only the benefits, but the burden of Christ; he is willing not only to tread out the corn, but to draw under the yoke; he takes up the commands of Christ, yea, the cross of Christ. The unsound convert takes only half of Christ: he is all for the salvation of Christ, but he is not for the sanctification; he is for the privileges, but appropriates not the person of Christ; he divides his offices and benefits of Christ.” Pg 46-47

Again Alleine says, “Should he take men as they are, from the mire of their filthiness to the glory of heaven, the world would think that God was at no such great distance from sin, nor had any such dislike to it as we are told he hath; they would be ready to conclude that God was altogether such a one as themselves” pg 70. And again, “Regeneration and remission are never separated; the unsanctified are unjustified and unpardoned” pg 114. And again, “thou canst not be married to Christ except divorced from sin” Pg 138.

And so repentance must be complete and total, sanctification is a radical crisis experience, a complete renunciation of all sin that must be diligently maintained. Repentance, or sanctification, is not a slow process, but a radical complete and total decision to forsake all sin and to serve God; so the bible proclaims that Christians “are sanctified”! (Acts 20:32, Acts 26:18, 1Cor 1:2, 1Cor 6:11, Heb 2:11, Heb 10:10, Heb 10:14, Jude 1:1)

[b]WHAT MUST CHRISTIANS DO?[/b]

“We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness.” (1John 5:19)

If you want sinners to be damned for their rebellion, to have their souls eternally burned under the fierce wrath of the Sovereign in which they have been at war with, tell them that they are to do nothing at all to be saved. And if you tell them to do nothing, and they believe they are to do nothing, and they actually do nothing, you can rest assure that they will not be saved but will be damned because of you. (Eze 33:6, 33:8)

But if you want sinners to be saved, to be reconciled to the Lord that they have been sinning against, you must tell them to turn away from all their sinning and to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. How simpler could God have put it? Those who turn will live (Eze 18:21, Eze 18:32, Eze 33:19) those who refuse to turn will die. (Eze 33:11, Rom 6:23, Rom 8:13, Jam 1:15) When witnessing to sinners, repentance must be our aim, for repentance is what is required and needed for their salvation; only impenitence can hold back from salvation those for whom God loves and those for whom Christ died. And so God says we are to “warn them from me” (Eze 33:7), our ministry is to be “warning every man” so that every man may be “perfect in Christ Jesus” (Col 1:28)

The elements for their salvation are all in place, except for one. God is already willing to forgive, Christ has already finished dying for all, making salvation possible for all, now the only thing needed is for them to have true faith, a faith that repents; then and only then will their salvation be secured, then and only then will God our Sovereign choose to pardon their previous crimes and elect them unto salvation.

We must take the true and glorious gospel to a lost and dying world. We must call rebels to submit to the Sovereign decrees of the King of Kings, to surrender their hearts to God, by yielding heart obedience to all that He asks; to wave the white flag of surrender, to give up their war against God! We must preach the truth that God only chooses to save those who choose to repent and believe; only those who voluntarily repent and believe are elected of God unto salvation. God chooses and elects nobody in their sin, but only chooses to pardon those who turn from their sin.

Our God of love is longing for all men to repent in order to be saved, and so must we long for the same! We must plead, even unto tears and weeping, with sinners to repent and believe the gospel, crying out – exhorting – and testifying, “save yourselves from this perverse generation,” (Acts 2:40) “cast away from yourself all of your transgressions” and “make yourself a new heart and a new spirit” (Eze 18:31) We must warn that the wicked must turn from his wickedness in order to save his soul alive. (Eze 18:27) This is what the Holy Spirit is telling men, this is what God requires of men, and so this is what we must preach to men.

Let us follow the perfect example of Jesus Christ, of John the Baptist, of the Apostle Peter, and of the Apostle Paul; let’s tell sinners what they must do in order to be saved!


[b]Quotes:[/b]

- George Otis Jr: God’s Trademarks, page 139
- John Fletcher: Checks to Antinomianism, pg 32, 35
- Rev A. Sims: Bible Salvation, pg 98
- Austin Couch: The Plan of Salvation, pg 74-75
- Catherine Booth: Papers on Godliness, pg 92, 94-94
- B. Franklin: The Gospel Preacher, pg 103, 104, 106
- Catherine Booth: Popular Christianity, pg 22
- Charles Kingsley: True Repentance, pg 11-12
- Charles Finney: Lectures on Revivals, pg 488, 491, 492, 493, 494, 496
- Charles Finney: Lectures on Theology, pg 466
- A. W. Tozer: Gems from Tozer, pg 12, 25
- Joseph Alleine: Alarm to Unconverted Sinners, pg 46-47, 70, 114, 138

R
roaringlamb

But again, man cannot believe on his own apart from a working of God to grant him faith. Regenration must precede faith as the natural man cannot receive the things of the Spirit, for they are foolishness to him.

I am amazed that you would quote Alleine in your piece amidst men whom he would say were near heretics! Alleine of course was a Calvinist, and by quoting only the parts you like from him lead people to believe he agreed with Finney. Much of the confusion in our day is caused by this cross quoting men of differing Theologies and making it seem that they agree. Truth be told, I know of no Reformed preacher that ever would wish to be quoted in the same article as Finney unless it was debunking his theology.

S
sermonindex

I actually couldn't find the Alleine quote I was really looking for.

Alleine said that if a person had just one unrepented sin, they were not yet born again.

But the quote where Allein said that sanctification must preceed justification is a very good quote as well.

And yes, no man will believe without the influencing of the Spirit upon man's will. The Spirit must first convict of sin, righteousness, and judgment, and men must not resist the Holy Spirit as Stephens hearers did. Regeneration or conversion only occurs when the Spirit is not resisted.

C
Christinyou

I guess these scriptures don't count.


Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

Jhn 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

Jhn 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Jhn 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet [given]; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Jhn 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?

Jhn 9:36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?

Jhn 11:48 If we let him thus alone, all [men] will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.

Jhn 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Act 16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

Rom 4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

Phl 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.


S
sermonindex

Most of those scriptures are in the article.

S
sermonindex

Sinners must repent and believe before God can accept them. That is what they must do in order to be saved. And then they need to persevere unto the end.

R
running2win

It's kind of like this- a sinner must repent before he can receive the free gift of salvation but he's not saved because he repented- if that makes any sense. There's nothing a sinner can [i]do[/i] to save himself. God saves him by His grace according to the sinner's faith. But God wont save him if the sinner doesn't see that he needs salvation. If repenting was an ingrediant of salvation then we would all have "done something" to be saved. And if you've done something to be saved then [i]you[/i] have done it and if [i]you[/i] can do something then Christ died for nothing and made a mistake in dying. There is a place that God has to bring a person to so that they can be saved by His grace. And that's repentance. But even that is the work of God.

S
sermonindex

Nobody is saved because they repent, but nobody can be saved unless they repent!

This is from the article:

THE GROUND OF CONDITIONAL SALVATION

The ground of salvation is the reason for salvation, which is God’s mercy and grace made possible through the loving sacrifice of Christ’s blood. (Eph 2:8-9) But the conditions for salvation are the terms of salvation, without which salvation cannot occur; which conditions consist of repentance (Luke 13:3), faith (Heb 11:6), and perseverance (Mark 13:13). Nobody is saved because they repent, believe, and persevere (as though these were the ground or reason for justification) but rather those that are saved are saved by God’s gracious mercy and not their own running or willing (Rom 9:16). But none can be saved who do not repent, believe, and persevere; for God’s gracious mercy is extended only to the faithful and repentant, to those who meet the terms and conditions. Repentance and faith are the undeniable conditions of salvation – salvation cannot occur “without” these; but these are not the ground of salvation – salvation does not occur “because of” these.

While running does not save you (Rom 9:16), nobody can be saved who does not run lawfully. (1Cor 9:24-27) God saves (elects, chooses) only those who repent and believe, and finally saves (elects, chooses) only those who persevere unto the end.

Sinners cannot save themselves, i.e. through their own works or goodness; but men must do something, i.e. repent and believe, in order for Jesus to be able to save them!! Sinners can never earn, merit, or deserve salvation; but all sinners must receive salvation in order to be saved! It is not our own works that pardon us, nor our own wills that pardon us, but it is God’s grace and mercy that pardons us. It is God who justifies (Rom 8:33) but who does He justify? Those who repent and believe! Sinners cannot pardon their own crimes, only God can. But criminals in God’s government must first meet the conditions of pardon before God is willing or able to extend pardon to all of their past crimes, before God is willing to choose to forgive them and restore them.

So the ground of the conditional salvation that God offers is His grace and mercy through the cross, but the conditions of that salvation is repentance, faith, and perseverance.

Without Jesus Christ nobody can be saved or have forgiveness. (John 14:6, 1John 5:12) And it is our sin that separates us from God. (Isaiah 59:2) Therefore the one who has come to Jesus Christ, who is now reconciled unto God, must have left his sin behind! Jesus saves us from sin, not merely from the guilt of sin and the consequence of sin, but from the sin itself! (Matt 1:21) And nobody can come to God accept through Christ! (1John 1:5) All those who are forgiven – pardoned – justified – or saved, those who are reconciled, are those who have repented and believed, for God only forgives – pardons – justifies – or saves those who repent and believe.

Without repentance there can be no reconciliation, for it is the sin that causes the separation. You cannot have separation and reconciliation at the same time. If sin causes the separation, in order for reconciliation to come then the sin needs to go! Men need to choose either the Savior or their sin; they need to choose separation through sin or reconciliation through Christ, for they cannot have both!

P
psalm1

The "accepts" part causes ths rest of the sentnce in the header to go in a thousand directions. There is not any ONE thing that can be said. I must recite a thousand sentences to get anywhere in this concept the way it is worded.Ever read pilgrams progress? The wicket gate was not the first thing.
Just this dummies 2 cents.
David

C
Christinyou

Repent of what?

Is it not unbelief?

First believe, 2nd salvation, 3rd then we know what to repent of and how.

S
sermonindex

Repent of what?

Is it not unbelief?

First believe, 2nd salvation, 3rd then we know what to repent of and how.

Amen.

I
InTheLight

The "accepts" part causes ths rest of the sentnce in the header to go in a thousand directions. There is not any ONE thing that can be said. I must recite a thousand sentences to get anywhere in this concept the way it is worded.Ever read pilgrams progress? The wicket gate was not the first thing. Just this dummies 2 cents.

Amen! If we're going to talk about salvation there truly is only ONE thing that can be said. It is the only word written over the gate of heaven, GRACE.

Grace through Jesus Christ always has been and always will be the only hope of mankind. Great indeed is the mystery of godliness.

In Christ,

Ron

R
roaringlamb

How about our Lord's words that speak of this
"No man can come to me except the Father which hath sent me draw him" John 6:44

Or these
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [b]even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, [i]nor of the will of man, but of God.[/i][/b]

A man cannot believe, or repent without the Spirit giving him the ability, because left to his own, no man would. Man does not care if he offends God until he is a child of God indwelt by the Spirit, thus he is truly convicted of sin. Now I am not speaking of those who repent because they have failed their own standards, or moral code, but instead I am speaking of those who hear the word, are convicted by the Spirit of their sin against God, and repent by a truly God birthed sorrow for sin.

Even our repentance cannot be seen as what justifies us before God. Christ alone is our justification before God, not one of our works, for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. Though repentance is a fruit of regeneration as the once dead sinner now sees the folly of his sin against Almighty God, and also sees the greatness of the Christ through the gospel as being his only hope to ever please this holy God whom he has sinned against.

The Gospel truly is good news to its hearers(those whose ears have been opened to hear) when we present it properly, this is why it is very important to know soteriology, or how one is saved, and also [i]ordo salutis[/i] or the order of salvation.

Here's a hint...
We are justified by faith alone, by grace alone, through Christ alone, that God alone receives the glory, and all this is deduced from Scripture alone.

Or for you Latin buffs :-P
Sola Fide(faith)
Sola Gratia(grace)
Solas Christus(Christ)
Soli Deo Gloria(to God alone be the glory)
Sola Scriptura(scripture)

S
sermonindex

I'm no calvinist... but its amazing how God still seems to get his work done despite the fact that his children cant even agree on how that work gets done!

In Christ - Jim

H
hmmhmm


jimdied2sin wrote:
I'm no calvinist... but its amazing how God still seems to get his work done despite the fact that his children cant even agree on how that work gets done!

In Christ - Jim

:-)

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=6139&forum=36&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0]Calvanism vs Arminianism[/url]

R
roaringlamb

I'm no calvinist... but its amazing how God still seems to get his work done despite the fact that his children cant even agree on how that work gets done!

And at the end of the day if everyone who is born of God is honest with themselves, they will say that God did something first to bring them to Christ.

I hope we understand that this world in which we live was created for the manifestation of Christ. The bible is one long story of God's redemption through types and figures culminating in the Sun of righteousness appearing to men.

I love the words, "but God" especially how Paul uses them in Ephesians 2. You were dead in sin, but God gave you life, you were children of wrath, but God adopted you, you were children of the devil, but God granted you a new birth.

If we're honest, we'll realize God made the first move, and then we will rejoice in what our God has worked!!!

H
hmmhmm

maybe you have coverd this already? but isent it also God who makes it possible to repent? i think of this verse

Romans 2:4 Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?

R
roaringlamb

but isent it also God who makes it possible to repent?

Yes, God the Holy Spirit enables through regeneration and grants ability to see sin and Christ properly, then produces contrition and repentance. True repentance is brought by the work of the Spirit as one of His offices is to convict of sin.

This of course can happen in an instant, or through abit of time(not saying this person is justified, as repentance is key to justification). It's not really a black and white area of which we can give a timeline. We preach Christ and His great work upon Calvary, and let the Spirit do as He will.

S
sermonindex

Here's a great comment/question someone posted to Jesse regarding this article on Jesse's site:

[color=FF0000]I want to make a brief comment.
God does accept sinners as they are. But not in the way you think I mean it. Sinners can come to God as sinners and repent(have a change of mind about their sin) and He will change them. Some people say you have to stop sinning before you come to God. I would say that stop sinning before you come to God is just as much a false gospel as "you can continue in sin and really be saved"

While we were yet sinners Christ died for us!


P.S If while preaching at a campus and a homosexual drug addict says that they have been convicted by your words and believe their sin is evil against God, and they want to repent and be born again. Do you then tell them to go home and not sin for 6 months and then God will accept them?[/color]

R
RobertW

We must preach the Kingdom, or Government of God! (Luke 4:43, Luke 9:2, Luke 9:60) We must preach the “gospel of the Kingdom”, or the gospel of God’s Government! (Matt 4:23, Matt 9:35, Matt 24:14, Mark 1:14)

I think I would prefer to preach the Kingdom of God and the Gospel of the Kingdom.

And in this Kingdom there is a King (1Tim 6:15, Heb 7:1, Rev 17:14, Rev 19:16), and this King sent His son to die for his rebellious citizens (John 3:16, Luke 20:13), that those who cease their rebellion (Isaiah 1:16), putting an end to their sinning (Luke 13:3), may have gracious pardon and mercy given unto them for all of their past sins (Rom 3:24-26), being washed from all their old sins (2Pet 1:9), that they may be restored into a right relationship with their Sovereign whom they have been rebelling against! (Heb 8:12, Heb 10:17)

Perhaps the greatest disagreement I have with Finney is his assertion that God sent Jesus to die, [u]not[/u] for our sins, but to make an example out of Him of how bad sin is. Man needs to see how bad sin is- so I'll send my son to die on the cross to show them how bad I hate sin and what a sinner truly deserves. That is nonsense of the highest order. In Finney's time public hangings were commonplace. In Jesus' day crucifixion was commonplace. Untold numbers of members of the Jewish Freedom Movement were crucified.

Finney did not believe Jesus died in our place. He did not believe in the atonement as it is known in evangelicalism. His view of the atonement either [i]caused[/i] him to take on a "salvation by sanctification" soteriology or it was [i]convenient [/i]to a desire to strip people completely of assurance of salvation apart from perfection. In either case, I think holding such a view personally and ministering with that belief would be one thing; but to promote such a view is something different.

And it’s true, Savior hood without Lordship is a selfish gospel; Jesus represented as your servant rather then as your Lord and Sovereign is a heretical and grievous error! Yet it is often represented as a heretical and grievous error the other way around! But we must present the Sovereignty of God in conversion! That is, we must declare the requirement of the Lordship of Christ in salvation!

As a believer in Lordship Salvation I have to ask if there is any salvation for the child of God if their last act on earth was a sin? It seems to me that in this doctrine Entire Sanctification is directly related to salvation; which to me, is the most grievous to be borne doctrine in the history of the world. Who can shoulder the weight of a system of belief that places a person's salvation completely in their own hands and based on whether or not they stay in a constant state of repentance.

Keep in mind that I view certain sins as utterly dangerous to the soul; yet, if Entire Sanctification is required for salvation then who will be saved? In this system there is no such thing as Justification by faith. Salvation is strictly based upon whether or not God has forgiven the person for their latest sin. This probably sounds nuts to some people reading this, but let me assure you that there are people who absolutely believe if they die with one sin that is not "under the blood" they are going to hell. That is to say- if they die with an unconfessed sin they go to hell as if they were the vilest of sinners.

Let me say with a clear conscience that I know personally that this approach to salvation does not cause people to live for God. What it does is the [u]exact opposite[/u]. The reason being is that while they were 'Christians' they repented every day and had to keep their sins forgiven. Now, they don't go to church, they don't serve God and they [i]believe[/i] if they ask for forgiveness just before they die- then they will be just as saved as the person trying to live right who has to ask for forgiveness of 'something' almost every day or week also. So instead of serving God they view their basic need as forgiveness of sins. That's it. No relationship with God or anything. Where did they get that idea?

From preachers that told them that being a Christian meant that you did not sin. Never mind the fact that salvation not only frees from Sin, but [i]reconciles us to God[/i] in a real and genuine way. So the emphasis skews the view of Christianity in their mind until all they think about is living Holy and have no real desire to walk in communion with God. This is how a lot of these off-shoot Christian sects move to the countryside bound up in legalism and religion without God.

Preoccupation with sin is deadly. Living holy is a necessity. What (who) then defines holiness? If holiness is walking in the Spirit- then why the preoccupation with sin? Later in life Finney himself admitted that he could not 'live' in the realm of revival preaching. Revival preaching is a starting point. A steady diet of it over time will wear you out. We need to learn to walk with God and stop living in an unnatural and ungodly fear. If we are the sons of God through our having received the Spirit of adoption- why are we (me) in so much fear all the time? Will ABBA smite me into hell for one slip up? Not that I would desire to slip or sin- but having a willingness to admit reality I believe I will in some way sin again. God will deal with me as a Father. I have to say, some of these doctrines make the Devil himself look merciful in comparison to how God is sometimes depicted. :-?

S
sermonindex

I read a few different questions people have asked, but think that they were answered already in the article.

I would recommend reading the article in it's entirety to get a full understanding of what I am saying.

And if anyone has any questions after reading the full article, feel free to list out those questions for me.

P
philologos

Nothing can be a more false message, a greater distortion of God, then telling sinners that, “God accepts you as you are” and that “sinners must not do anything to be saved”. That is simply not true! That’s a lie! Jesus did not preach such a god and such a gospel! Jesus said a man must be born again to be acceptable unto God! (John 3:3). Jesus said a sinner must repent or else he would perish! (Luke 13:3) Jesus said only the pure in heart, not the sinful in heart, would see God! (Matt 5:8) Peter did not preach a sinner-accepting-god! Peter said that God resists the proud! Peter said God accepts only the humble! (1Peter 5:5-6) The proud must humble themselves to be accepted by God. Jesus is “the author of eternal salvation” only to “them that obey Him”! (Heb 5:9)

This is a straw man; set up to be knocked down. God accepts a man 'as he is' but not on the basis of 'how he is'. He accepts him on the basis of what Christ has done, not what the man has to do.

The problem with Finney, as I see it and as you express it, is that he really did not believe that 'God justifies the ungodly'.

[color=0000FF]But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. (Romans 4:5 KJVS)[/color]

God accepts us as we are for Christ's sake, BUT he does not leave us 'as we are'. You are confusing, as did Finney, justification with sanctification.

S
sermonindex

The whole point is that a sinner must repent, ie turn from sin, and believe the gospel before God can justify him. A person must turn from sin and trust in Jesus before they can be forgiven.

Turning from sin and trusting in Jesus are the necessary conditions for salvation which is grounded upon Jesus Christ alone.

True evangelism is telling sinners what they must do in order to be saved; true evangelism is telling sinners that they must repent from their sin and put their faith in Jesus Christ.

- God wants everyone to be saved

- Jesus Christ died for everyone

The only thing lacking now is that men must repent and believe.

P
philologos

The whole point is that a sinner must repent, ie turn from sin, and believe the gospel before God can justify him.

So you really believe in "justification by repentance and faith"? and you don't believe that God 'justifies the ungodly' you really believe that God only justifies the ungodly if he 'turns from his sin'.

You understand that I am not disputing the need to 'turn from sin', what I am opposing is that you are making 'turning from sin' a necessary qualification. This is not the Bible teaching. Faith must be genuine and genuine faith will ultimately be 'justified' by the change in life which includes 'turning from sin', but if you make 'turning from sin' the pivot you have put the whole focus on man's part.

How does one judge 'turning from sin'? In Finney's theology it seems to mean that if there is any consequent sin the 'justification' is annulled. So the justification is the result of sanctification. The is the fatal folly of Finney's teaching; justification by sanctification.

S
sermonindex

God justifies the ungodly, that repent and believe. God does not justify the ungodly that refuse to repent and believe.

Regarding faith and repentance. Faith requires repentance and repentance requires faith. One cannot exist without the other. Where one exists, the other must exist as well.

This is what I said in my article. (Have you read the full article?)

Repentance requires faith, and faith requires repentances, so that one can never exist without the other! Justification without repentance is just as much a fable dream as justification without faith, for both are a vain fantasy, a delusional dream, that will never come to fruition. And these empty dreams leave many spiritually empty, without the blessed salvation of God, without the precious forgiveness of sins!

True faith never results in being overcome by the world, being left in sin, but in overcoming the world, having victory over sin! “For whatsoever is born of God overcomes the world: and this is the victory that overcomes the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcomes the world, but he that believes that Jesus is the Son of God?” (1John 5:4-5) Where there is no overcoming victory there is no faith, but where there is faith there must be overcoming victory.

We are commanded to “add to your faith virtue” (2Pet 1:5) with “diligence” (2Pet 1:10). And “if ye do” this (2Pet 1:10) you “make your calling and election sure”. (1Pet 1:10) For God only elects, or chooses to save those who repent, believe, and persevere unto the end.

We are to never cease in “labors of love” and in “works of faith” (1Thes 1:3, Heb 6:10). Love and faith must accompany one another! (Eph 6:23, 1Tim 1:14, 2Tim 1:13) Faith in the Lord must result in love towards others! (Eph 1:15, Eph 3:17, Col 1:4, Phm 1:5) And if we love one another, we will not sin against one another, (Rom 13:11) for love is the fulfillment of the law. (Rom 13:8, Gal 6:14, James 2:8, 1Tim 1:5) We must be “perfect in love” (1John 4:17-18) and if we are not then we cannot have “boldness in the Day of Judgment.” (1John 4:17) The one who has a “perfect heart (1Kings 8:61, 1Kings 11:4, 1Kings 15:3, 1Kings 15:14, 2Kings 20:3, 1Chron 12:38, 1Chron 28:9, 1Chron 29:9, 2Chron 15:17, 2Chron 16:9, 2Chron 19:9, 2Chron 25:2, Ps 101:2, Isaiah 38:3) is one who has no intention to sin, no plans on sinning, but has been perfected in love. It is only those who are “pure in heart” that “shall see God” and will “ascend the hill of the Lord”. (Ps 24:3-5, Matt 5:8)

The saintly A. W. Tozer said, in the 1969 “Gems from Tozer” publication, “Christ’s savior hood is forever united to His lordship. Christ must be Lord or He will not be Savior. To teach that Christ will use His sacred power to further our worldly interests is to wrong our Lord and injure our own souls. We modern evangelicals need to learn the truths of the sovereignty of God and the lordship of Christ. God will not play along with Adam; Christ will not be used by any of Adam’s selfish brood. We had better learn these things fast if this generation of young Christians is to be spared the supreme tragedy of following a Christ who is merely a Christ of convenience and not the true Lord of glory after all.” Pg 12

Again Tozer wrote, “Faith and morals are the two sides of the same coin. Indeed the very essence of faith is moral. Any professed faith in Christ as personal Savior that does not bring the life under plenary obedience to Christ as Lord is inadequate and must betray its victim at the last. The man that believes will obey. God gives faith to the obedient heart only. Where real repentance is, there is obedience. To escape the error of salvation by works we have fallen into the opposite error of salvation without obedience.” Pg 25

It is just as heretical to subtract repentance from the gospel as it is heretical to subtract works from faith. Just as faith without works cannot save a single soul (James 2:14), neither can a gospel without repentance save anybody. Faith without works is a dead faith, and a gospel without repentance is a deadly gospel! Take the new birth out of the gospel, and you have no gospel to preach, and your listeners will surely perish!

In his classic, “Alarm to Unconverted Sinners” Joseph Alleine said, “All of Christ is accepted by the sincere convert: he loves not only the wages, but the work of Christ; not only the benefits, but the burden of Christ; he is willing not only to tread out the corn, but to draw under the yoke; he takes up the commands of Christ, yea, the cross of Christ. The unsound convert takes only half of Christ: he is all for the salvation of Christ, but he is not for the sanctification; he is for the privileges, but appropriates not the person of Christ; he divides his offices and benefits of Christ.” Pg 46-47

Again Alleine says, “Should he take men as they are, from the mire of their filthiness to the glory of heaven, the world would think that God was at no such great distance from sin, nor had any such dislike to it as we are told he hath; they would be ready to conclude that God was altogether such a one as themselves” pg 70. And again, “Regeneration and remission are never separated; the unsanctified are unjustified and unpardoned” pg 114. And again, “thou canst not be married to Christ except divorced from sin” Pg 138.

And so repentance must be complete and total, sanctification is a radical crisis experience, a complete renunciation of all sin that must be diligently maintained. Repentance, or sanctification, is not a slow process, but a radical complete and total decision to forsake all sin and to serve God; so the bible proclaims that Christians “are sanctified”! (Acts 20:32, Acts 26:18, 1Cor 1:2, 1Cor 6:11, Heb 2:11, Heb 10:10, Heb 10:14, Jude 1:1)

If you want sinners to be d**ned for their rebellion, to have their souls eternally burned under the fierce wrath of the Sovereign in which they have been at war with, tell them that they are to do nothing at all to be saved. And if you tell them to do nothing, and they believe they are to do nothing, and they actually do nothing, you can rest assure that they will not be saved but will be d**ned because of you. (Eze 33:6, 33:8)

But if you want sinners to be saved, to be reconciled to the Lord that they have been sinning against, you must tell them to turn away from all their sinning and to accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior. How simpler could God have put it? Those who turn will live (Eze 18:21, Eze 18:32, Eze 33:19) those who refuse to turn will die. (Eze 33:11, Rom 6:23, Rom 8:13, Jam 1:15) When witnessing to sinners, repentance must be our aim, for repentance is what is required and needed for their salvation; only impenitence can hold back from salvation those for whom God loves and those for whom Christ died. And so God says we are to “warn them from me” (Eze 33:7), our ministry is to be “warning every man” so that every man may be “perfect in Christ Jesus” (Col 1:28)

The elements for their salvation are all in place, except for one. God is already willing to forgive, Christ has already finished dying for all, making salvation possible for all, now the only thing needed is for them to have true faith, a faith that repents; then and only then will their salvation be secured, then and only then will God our Sovereign choose to pardon their previous crimes and elect them unto salvation.

H
hmmhmm

Repentance & Faith

Arthur Pink, "Salvation From the Penalty of Sin"

Repentance is the hand releasing those filthy objects
it had previously clung to so tenaciously.
Faith is extending an empty hand to God to receive His gift of grace.

Repentance is a godly sorrow for sin.
Faith is receiving a sinner's Savior.

Repentance is a revulsion of the filth and pollution of sin.
Faith is a seeking of cleansing therefrom.

Repentance is the sinner covering his mouth and crying,
"Unclean, unclean!"

Faith is the leper coming to Christ and saying,
"Lord, if You will, You can make me clean."

S
sermonindex

True evangelism is telling sinners what they must do in order to be saved; true evangelism is telling sinners that they must repent from their sin and put their faith in Jesus Christ.

On the day of Pentecost and throughout the Book of Acts, Peter and the others, Preached Christ! Look at Peter's sermon on the day of Pentecost, its almost like a history lesson for Israel.

In evangelism, these men did not preach repentence, or holiness, or God's Government?, or whatever. It was not complicated. They did exactly what Jesus did with the men on the road to Emmaus.

27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself.

Jesus preached Himself. The Apostles preached Christ.

Yes, Peter told the men to repent, but that was in response to their question, "Men and Bretheren, What Shall We Do?"

Peter preached Christ, and the Preaching of THAT WORD caused faith to arise in the hearers hearts (Faith comes by hearing the Word of God) and they asked... What Shall We Do?

R
RobertW

I would recommend reading the article in it's entirety to get a full understanding of what I am saying.

And if anyone has any questions after reading the full article, feel free to list out those questions for me.


With no gaps or spaces this article consumes 18.5 pages in a MS word document at a size 12 font. That would be around 30-40 pages in a paperback book. We all have to take it as we are reading it. This is where I am at:


In his 1886 edition of, “Bible Salvation and Popular Religion Contrasted,” the Methodist Rev. A. Sims wrote, “True repentance implies a knowledge of sin – sorrow for sin, and confession of it. But its chief characteristic is a turning from sin – from all sin – a turning to God. The person who truly repents, forsakes sin with abhorrence. Every darling idol is cast aside – unsaved associates, bad habits, the cup, the pipe, dishonest dealing, swearing, joking, Sabbath breaking, deceptive language, and the fashions of the world – all are given up. Yes, gospel repentance stops a man from sinning.

So lets list what will damn a soul based on A. Sims salvation philology.

1) Bad habits
2) the cup
3) the pipe
4) dishonest dealing
5) swearing
6) joking
7) sabbath breaking
8) unsaved associates
9) deceptive language
10) fashions of the world

In other words, if I want to call it sin I can declare you going to hell because you don't respond to my personal convictions when I preach. In other words, when I get up and preach my convictions and you don't come and weep in my altars I can declare you unsaved. Away with it ALL!


Lest God had shut my mouth I had declared the teachers of such a doctrine as a devil to his face and anathema upon his head. Wherein does this man venture to SHUT UP the Kingdom of Heaven with such foolish complaints as "the cup, the pipe, joking and the fashions of this world"? Perhaps I should admit I have lived in such a camp and under such teachings all my life. The Cup? What cup? Alcohol or coffee? Coke or pepsi? The pipe? You mean one like C.H. Spurgeon smoked? Sabbath breaking? You mean Saturday, right? Saturday is the Sabbath- not Sunday. Did this man even have a bible? And this is how people are brought into fear and bondage and devilry at the hands of so-called "holiness preachers."

But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? [u]Ye observe days[/u], and months, and times, and years. [u]I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.[/u] (Galatians 4)

No joking and no wearing of modern clothing? This is repentance? Repentance is when I forsake all unsaved associates?

Everyone listen up here please! This is EXACTLY the type of preaching that the old timers in our camp are desperate to stop from going forth again as they have seen its destruction and hypocrisy. this is why they shut down the doors to the 'repentance preachers'. They will not tolerate another round of this kind of field burning.


R
RobertW

An Excerpt from Hindrances to Revivals (Part 2).
C.G. Finney

[i]After a mighty struggle in prayer, the "Achan" would be discovered, the sin confessed, and then the work would go on again with power. In a state of feeble health, I was once spending a few weeks in a neighborhood where there was a church without a pastor, and who, when they had preaching, drew upon the funds of the Home Missionary Society for a part of the minister's support. While I was there they obtained the labors of an evangelist, who preached to them from day to day and from week to week without success. He saw and I saw that there was some iniquity in the church that forbade the effectual pouring out of the Spirit upon them. I made inquiry; but could not learn that there was any division in the church or any particular form of known sin covered up among them. But I observed that the meetinghouse was becoming unendurably filthy with tobacco spittle. One day, after sermon, I rose and called the attention of the church to that fact. On inquiry and calculation, I found that that church expended more for tobacco than they did for the support of the Gospel. After dealing with them thoroughly upon this point, a covenant was drawn up, which pledged the signers thereto to abstain wholly from the use of tobacco, and to pay the amount hitherto expended for that article wholly into the treasury of the Lord for the support of the Gospel. The tobacco users, I believe, almost to a man signed this covenant; and thereupon a new spirit immediately pervaded their meetings. There was liberty and power in prayer and preaching, and it was a striking contrast to what had gone before. The Spirit was poured out, and there was every indication of the coming on of a powerful and widespread revival. The floor of the house was cleansed and God was evidently in our midst. This hopeful state of things continued, I should think, for more than a week; when it became apparent that the Spirit was grieved that his agency was withheld. Fears began to be entertained by many of the most wakeful of the church that the brethren were breaking their covenant to abstain from the use of tobacco. The floor of the house continued clean, and, of course, did not justify the fear and suspicion that the covenant was broken. But soon it became so unmistakably evident that there was some "accursed thing" that prevented the work of the Spirit that the question was publicly asked if the brethren were not breaking their covenant with each other and with God. It was soon ascertained that they were, and that they were unwilling to repent and renew their covenant. This was decisive. All hopeful appearances almost immediately vanished, the evangelist left the ground for another field, and the meetings were entirely suspended.[/i]


This is how the convictions of men become the commandments of God. It is a case study. First of all the point is made that more money is spent on Tobacco than Missions. Folk are then asked to make a 'pledge' that they will not do this again. A covenant. A covenant to stop the damnable use of tobacco? Will real sin please stand up? Friend, if all the problem existed in this town was "tobacco use" the preacher had done well to move on anyways.

Understand the strategy. You have to keep bringing the people back over and over again to discover where they are falling short. Once you get them in line with the scriptures- then you take off on these types of things. Why? Because the feeling is- is that revival is when folk are falling down crying out for their sins and in a sense of 'fear' and trepidation. These were not the curious arts in Acts. This is chewing tobacco. Snuff as its called in some parts. And to use 'Achan' as a type of presenting it all?

Achan died for his direct disobedience of God's spoken commandment. did someone rise up in the meeting and give a "THUS SAYS THE LORD... FROM HENCEFORTH MY SPIRIT SHALL DEPART IF ANYONE CHEWS TOBACCO!" If not, then what logical deductions drawn from proof texts were they using to 'create' commandments from thin air? The typical one? YOur not being a good steward of God's money. How dare you buy bubblegum (chewing tobacco) with God's money! We found the Achan.

As if that were not crazy enough- from this point forward Chewing Tobacco is a sin and must be repented of before salvation can happen. This is the madness of preaching personal convictions. If God tells a person to put down their pipe- they need to do it right now! But the preacher is not God and if he/she have to fabricate laws and ordinances to preach on because the people are in line with most all things biblical- then need to leave town. This is how folk come under unnecessary oppressions. Soon salting your food is a sin because you are eating for pleasure. Not kidding here. Eating Ice Cream is a sin because it is not the proper nutrition and the sugar will rot your teeth. :-?

P
philologos

God justifies the ungodly, that repent and believe. God does not justify the ungodly that refuse to repent and believe.

Did Abraham repent?
[color=0000FF] And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness. (Genesis 15:6 NKJV)[/color]


Jesse Morrell

Repentance from sin must come prior to justification (Luke 13:3), or else God justifies the wicked! But he that justifies the wicked is an abomination!

Paul

For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.
But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, (Romans 4:3-5 NKJV)

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sermonindex

Jesus preached Himself. The Apostles preached Christ.

Yes, Peter told the men to repent, but that was in response to their question, "Men and Bretheren, What Shall We Do?"

Peter preached Christ, and the Preaching of THAT WORD caused faith to arise in the hearers hearts (Faith comes by hearing the Word of God) and they asked... What Shall We Do?

AMEN!!! So Simple!

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roaringlamb

The problem by making repentance the work by which a man receives justification, is that it leads to a man thinking he is justified by the works he has done rather than by God's grace alone. Paul had some rather harsh words for those who sought to be justified by the works of the law.

In Galatians, Paul is addressing this very issue. There were some who were boasting of their circumcision and law keeping as being the grounds by which they were accepted by God. I see this as very much similar to what you are preaching Jesse, so in the spirit of Paul allow me to tell you this.

Galatians 5:2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, [b]Christ shall profit you nothing.[/b]
Galatians 5:3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.

In other words, if you replace God's grace with any kind of work of man, then Christ and His work is of no value to you at all, why?

Galatains 5:4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, [b]whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.[/b]

A man that seeks to approach God in his own supposed righteousness has thrown grace aside, and for all intents and purposes trampled the blood of Christ under foot, and counted it vain!

This is where we will see very differing consequences due to our Theology, and soteriology. Since I am of a more Reformed view, I believe that God has elected people to salvation, therefore those whom He gives life to by His Spirit will perservere unto the end, and since the faith the man has was given to him when he was regenerated, he cannot even boast of his faith or repentance as it was a gift, and not a work.

Also because the Bible clearly shows that Christ's work was complete, and did redeem those for whom He died, there is great confidence in the work of the Spirit of God in keeping that soul.

Again Jesse, I feel sorry for those who have to listen to you preach, because you have nothing to offer them. You cannot offer Christ to them, because you do not view His work as sufficient to pay for their sins(all of them), you cannot tell them to cease from their works because you believe that a man must work, and work, and work to earn favour with God. Quite honestly according to your Theology, a man can stop sinning any time he wants, so why even preach a Saviour? Man can be his own saviour by his ability to not sin right?

Unfortunately, you place a yoke upon people that need not be there. Please stop regurgitating Finney, and just dig into the Scriptures. Remember how you came to Christ, what work did you do to make Him choose you? Who made you to differ? Or was it solely His sovereign free choice of you that is the grounds for any and all interest in Christ?

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PaulWest

Remember how you came to Christ, what work did you do to make Him choose you?

Another homerun, Roaringlamb! How quickly we tend to forget the simplicity of what we know to be true because it was first wrought in us. How blessed I am to think back to the times when I was theologically innocent and ignorant, before I knew the differences between Calvinism and Arminianism, or ever even heard of Finney.

We must preach what we know, not what we've learned, third-party. And we know what we preach to be true, because it is our living testimony, the vital reality of God entering our lives on a personal level.

Brother Paul

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roaringlamb

How quickly we tend to forget the simplicity of what we know

I would only add, or edit this to say [i]how quickly we forget the simplicity of Who we know.[/i]

Paul exhorted the Colossians not to be moved from the simplicity of Christ, what great words.

If we would be honest with ourselves and with God, we would reflect back to a point where suddenly it all made sense. Our sin against God became clear, our need of Christ was made evident, and our sorrow for wounding such Innocence was felt. Of course this did not come from our natural reasoning, and here is where it hurts the flesh, but that was all God given.

The light that went on was nothing more than the regeneration of our heart causing a complete paradigm shift in view of Christ.

It is humbling, yet uplifting at the same time. It provides a great boldness to approach the throne of God knowing that Another has paved the way, and maintains the way on our behalf.

Why any would want to take away from this great assurance is beyond me, yet I am but a man who has great sin, but better yet has a Great Saviour and Mediator!!

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PaulWest

I would only add, or edit this to say how quickly we forget the simplicity of Who we know.

Amen. What we know about [i]Him[/i] who has come to dwell in us. This what I meant, brother. Such simplicity...babes can understand. I suppose as with everything else in life, intellect accompanies growth, and abundance of knowledge often brings an opaque sheen to that which was once innocently transparent.

Brother Paul :-)

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sermonindex

WHAT MUST SINNERS DO TO BE SAVED?

“What good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?” (Matt 19:16, Mark 10:17, (Luke 3:10, Luke 3:12, Luke 3:14, Luke 10:25, Luke 18:18, John 6:28-29, Acts 2:37, Acts 16:30)

When Jesus was asked, “what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?” (Matt 19:16, Mark 10:17, Luke 10:25, Luke 18:18) Did Jesus respond by saying, “Nothing! You cannot do anything good to be saved!” No! In the multiple of times that Jesus was asked this eternally important question that was never His answer. Jesus responded with, “thou shalt not… thou shalt not… thou shalt not…” (Matt 19:18-19, Mark 10:19, Luke 10:26, Luke 18:20) “Do this and ye shall live.” (Luke 10:28) Jesus did not say, “do nothing” but rather said “do this”!

And this is the crux or the core of the problem that God our Sovereign has with fallen mankind! They have rejected His Sovereign decrees of “thou shalt not”! Sinners do not want the Sovereign Lord to reign over them (Luke 19:14, Luke 19:27), they reject the eternal counsel of God for their own salvation! (Luke 7:30, Luke 13:34) And this problem must be remedied before pardon can be extended.

“Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the Lord, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.” Isaiah 55:7

But the answer of our perfect Lord, as to what a sinner “must do” in order to be saved, is the essence of true repentance! Repentance is to turn away from sin, to cease from sinning, to no longer do what God has declared “thou shalt not” do. Repentance is to “Forsake” and to “return”. That is repentance, and that is what Jesus told a sinner he “must do” if he wanted to live. Because unless a man repents, the blood of Jesus Christ cannot cover him! (Heb 10:26-31) If “thou shalt not” does not teach the essence of true repentance then it doesn’t teach anything at all!

Jesus was asked, “What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?” What did He say? “Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” (John 6:28-29) Without men doing this work, this work of believing upon the Son that God sent, men cannot be saved! (John 3:18) No man can be justified without the work of repenting and believing. (James 2:21-25) These works do not merit or earn salvation, so we are not saved “by them”, since nobody is saved by works (1Tim 1:9, Titus 3:5), but these works are necessary and are required for salvation, so that we are not saved “without them”. Nobody can be saved who does not keep God’s commandments, “and this is his commandment, that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.” (1John 3:23)

When John the Baptist preached hell-fire, men cried out, “what shall we do” (Luke 3:10, Luke 3:12, Luke 3:14) he told them to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance! He did not say, “You must not do anything!” But rather John the Baptist preached, “Every tree therefore that does not bring forth good fruit is cut down and cast into the fire!” (Luke 3:9) He told sinners exactly what they need to do! (Luke 3:9-14)

When Peter was asked, “what shall we do?” (Acts 2:37) Peter did not say “Make sure that you do nothing!” Rather, Peter said, “Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins.” (Acts 2:38) And he continued to exhort them to, “Save yourselves from this perverse generation!” (Acts 2:40) This is a far cry from a passive “easy-believism”, or a “do-nothing-to-get-saved” type message.

When Paul was asked, “what must I do to be saved” (Acts 16:30) did Paul respond with, “You cannot do anything to be saved! It’s heresy to assume you must do something to be saved. Make sure that you do nothing!” That is not what the inspired Apostle said. Paul said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou will be saved.” (Acts 16:31) He did not say believe on the Savior Jesus Christ, but the Lord Jesus Christ!

God tells us that not everyone who declares Jesus as Lord will enter the Kingdom of Heaven, but those who actually do the will of the Sovereign! (Matthew 7:21-22, Luke 6:46) Christ’s family consists of those who “hear the Word of God, and do it.” (Luke 8:21) God requires that we be “hearers of the word” and also “a doer” of it! (James 1:23) It is only “he that does the will of God” that “abides forever” (1John 2:17) “If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that everyone that does righteousness is born of him” (1John 2:29) And again we are warned to “let no” preacher or theologian “deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.” (1John 3:7)

Why was John the Baptist, Jesus Christ, the Apostle Peter, and the Apostle Paul so successful in winning souls? Because they told sinners what they needed to do in order to be saved. And why were men like George Fox, John Wesley, William Booth, Charles Finney, and other giants of the faith such amazing soul winners? Because they knew the true gospel and the true God! And they told sinners what they needed to do in order to be saved! And why were so many other Christians and “theologians” so pathetic when it came to soul winning? Why did sinners not do anything under their sermons? Because their sermons told them to do nothing! If you tell sinners to do nothing, don’t be surprised if they do nothing!

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sermonindex

If you tell sinners to do nothing, don’t be surprised if they do nothing!

I don't see anybody on here saying that a man has to do nothing in order to receive Christ.

But I will tell you that there are many today who are telling people to do a lot of things (come to an altar, etc..) and these individuals are on not getting saved. Why? Because just like the rich young ruler, they are still trusting in their OWN Righteousness. They are still ignorant of the Righteousness that comes from God. (Romans 10:3)

When an individual (like the rich young ruler) asks, What good thing must I do to be saved? That individual is still looking inwardly for some bit of righteousness that he/she can produce and bring to God.

Saving righteousness is not something I can produce, it is not something I can go get or work up. Saving righteousness is found in a man that has already come to us. Look at Hebrews 10...

1Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.

2For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.

3For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

5For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

6But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:)

7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Him, He, Jesus, Christ, The Son of God, The Lamb of God, and The Seed of Abraham, Yeshua, and The Son of David, The True Israel, The Suffering Servant, and The Cleft of the Rock, Our Refuge, And THE WORD MADE FLESH.

He is the saving righteousness that comes from God, He is nigh thee and if a man believes on Him, that man shall be saved.


So why did Jesus give the rich young ruler the law. Why did Jesus tell him thou shalt not...etc.

Or let me ask it another way. Why didn't Jesus tell the rich young ruler to:

Repent and believe the Gospel!

Because at that point the man did not see anything he needed to repent of! And as for the Gospel, he would have looked at Jesus cross-eyed, because the Gospel is for those who have despaired of their own self-righteousness.

Jesus was standing right in front of that man, and the rich young ruler could not even see Him.

He did not see The Lamb of God that takes away the Sin of the World. All he saw was a good master. He was blind. God was standing if front of Him and all the man could ask was...What shall I DO that I may inherit eternal life?

He was ignorant of God's Righteousness. God's Righteousness was standing right in front of him, and he could not even see it. Why? Because the god of this world had blinded his eyes and all he could do was look to himself for righteousness. (The definition of dead religion)

Jesus gave him the law, and the man still thought he was just. So Jesus went right to the heart of the law...

21Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.

Thou shalt Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, mind, soul and strength...and Love thy neighbor as thyself.

And because the man was still looking inward, all he could do was walk away in despair.

Jesus was only a "good master" to him, so at that point Jesus had nothing else to offer him.

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PaulWest

He was ignorant of God's Righteousness. God's Righteousness was standing right in front of him, and he could not even see it. Why? Because the god of this world had blinded his eyes and all he could do was look to himself for righteousness. (The definition of dead religion)

Brother,

I don't think the ruler was ignorant; I think he was still holding on to the "one thing" that hindered the rendering of the totality of himself to God. Jesus put His finger on the "one thing" and I dare to say that none of us here on SermonIndex are ignorant of what that "one thing" may be in our own walks with God.

It was not ignorance that led him sorrowfully away; I contend it was the refusal to run the knife through the throat of his darling Isaac on Mount Moriah.

Have you heard "One Thing You Lack" by Art Katz? It speaks painful voulmes on this very subject.

Brother Paul

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sermonindex

I don't think the ruler was ignorant; I think he was still holding on to the "one thing" that hindered the rendering of the totality of himself to God. Jesus put His finger on the "one thing" and I dare to say that none of us here on SermonIndex are ignorant of what that "one thing" may be in our own walks with God.

I have heard a few messages that speak of that passage like that. I remember a message years ago from Pastor Carter Conlon, where he said the same thing..."This one thing you lack".

With all respect...Honestly, I whole heartedly disagree with that interpretation. Dare I say I vehemently disagree with that interpretation.

In fact, that kind of interpretation is no different that was Jesse is saying.

There is only "One Thing I Lack" and that is... Perfect-Saving Righteousness.

Jesus was not trying to save that man at that point. That man was not ready.

That man was trusting in his riches, just like every unsaved man trusts in something other than Christ. (The Apostle Paul trusted in his Jewish Heritage and his keeping of the law)

It is impossible for any man, by his own strength, to forsake the thing in which he trusts.

But what is impossible with men is possible with God. That is the Gospel.

He was ignorant of God's Righteousness, and he was trying to establish his own righteousness.


Yes we are to take up our cross and follow Him. Yes we are bought with a price, our lives are not our own. But...

I will have no ability to "take up my cross" until I first understand "His Cross"

It was FOR JOY, that the man sold all that he had to buy the field...

44Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

He found something greater, and therefore he was able to forsake all that he trusted in, and go buy the field.

The rich young ruler could not see that Jesus was greater than his own righteousness.

The issue was not the man's riches. We are not told how rich he was, but I'll bet by today's standards many of us (Americans) are as rich as or richer than that man was.

The issue was that of righteousness.


Look at the verses before that passage. Jesus was talking about new beginnings. (Divorce, come to Him as a child)

Divorce - a man cannot just put away his wife and marry another...Jesus called that adultery. Paul said that man is bound to his wife by the law. The only way a man can be married to another lawfully is if the wife were to die.

Israel, (of who the rich young ruler was apart) was married to the law. Most (like the rich young ruler) were entrenched in "law righteousness" because they were ignorant of God's Righteousness.

Jesus was teaching them something. The could not just "add Christ" to their lives. That would be adultery. They had to die to ever achieving their own righteousness ...which is of the law.

They had to come to Him like little children. Brand new. Trusting in Him alone.

How do we become dead to the law so that we can become married to Christ. Well, Paul says it is by the body of Christ.

4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

Jesus kept giving the law to the people because he wanted show them that they lacked a righteousness that would allow them to stand before a Holy God.

The issue was not riches, but righteousness.

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PaulWest

It is impossible for any man, by his own strength, to forsake the thing in which he trusts.

And yet this is just the thing God calls us to do. Over and over and over again in the Word. "How hard it is for a rich man to enter the Kingdom of heaven." Why? Is it because God won't give them the grace to "understand" the righteousness of Christ? The Bible speaks of gold as a snare, something that can trap a man. The same with lust and greed.

Whose ultimate responsibility is it, then, to forsake and to turn away from these worldy things? Whose job is it to [i]lay up[/i] our treasure in heaven? God's too? Brother, to follow your interpetation, the man walked away because God didn't give him the strength to forsake his riches. You seem to be saying that a mere "understanding" of the doctrine of Christ's righteousness is all a man needs, yet the Bible seems to contradict this everywhere. You can know all the truths and still be as dead as a doornail. And not only that, you can even [i]agree[/i] with them!

Jesus was not trying to save that man at that point. That man was not ready.

How do you know this? Why then did Jesus extend the invitation to follow Him and be a disciple?

Brother, there are multitudes who have "an understanding" of Jesus' righteousness but who have not forsaken all and thus cannot enter in. Now, when I say "all" I do not mean mere physical objects; I'm speaking of the hidden, spiritual things, the invisible powers, unmortified lusts of the flesh that still surge and hold empire over us and prevent us from giving God the utter and total abandonment of our beings. This is what, I believe, Jesus flushed to the surface when he said, "One thing you lack" to the ruler.

Remember, the ruler professed he was ready to follow Christ. There are multitudes and multitudes of believers and preachers and theologians that are in reserved bondage despite their professions. They kneel before Jesus like the rich ruler, and, unlike the rich ruler as you say, actually [i]understand[/i] that their righteouness is in Christ! Yet they are outside the Kingdom of Heaven, according to Scripture. Is it God's fault for not giving them the strength to forsake all? You say the rich young ruler was not ready, yet Matthew (Levi) left his tax booth immediately and followed Jesus at the same call: "Follow me"

Where do you differentiate between the rich young ruler and Levi?

Brother Paul

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rowdy2

I am a sinner saved by grace. So I do not say who has found salvation or who is going to hell, I am so thankful for receiving God's grace and not His righteous judgement. Because I in the flesh am guilty of the law and must not and cannot judge others. All power to judge was given to the only Righteous Son that fulfilled the law and as the only righteous one reconciled me unto Himself. My flesh to is under the curse of the law which is death and my flesh will die, but according to the spirit I have eternal life through faith in Him who justified me by His love on the cross. I now live by faith in the word of God

Eddie

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roaringlamb

I found John Gill's note on this phrase worthwhile

[i][b]"go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven"[/b] not that either the law of God, or Gospel of Christ, require this to be done of all men, and at all times; for though it is a duty binding upon all, and always, to relieve the poor and the needy, yet a man is not obliged to give all that he has to them; see 2 Corinthians 8:11 nor does either legal or Christian perfection lie in doing this: a man may give all his goods to the poor and yet be destitute of the grace of God, (1 Corinthians 13:3) much less can such an action merit the heavenly treasure of eternal life. Nevertheless of some persons, and in some cases, it has been required, that they part with all their worldly substance, for the sake of Christ and his Gospel; as the apostles were called to leave all and follow Christ, as this man was also; for it is added...[/i]

And at the same time, I think both of you gentlemen are right in a sense. For Christ was pointing out to the rich young man that indeed there was a greater righteousness he needed, but also that the point of the Law was not simply to be heard, but done for not the hearers of the Law are justified, but the doers.

This young man made his boast of the Law and that he had kept it precisely his whole life, to which Christ says in effect, "very well if it is as you say, then put your talk into practise, be a doer of the law, for if you will boast in the Law, then you must continue in it and do all it commands."

Now we must look at this passage as well in light of the Gospel, and not just under the guise of Law. For ths same standard applies to us does it not? We are obligated to perfect obedience to the Law and all its tennets. However this is impossible with men, and thus a perfect obedience must be accepted in our place i.e. Christ's. This is what is known as the active obedience of Christ. His perfect life under the Law pays the debt owed by His people for their breaking the Law, thus we are no longer under Law, but grace as His obedience has been imputed to us as well.

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sermonindex

Again, the issue was not riches, it was, is, and will always be righteousness. There will be many poor people in hell who did not receive Christ, simply because they (just like the rich) went about to establish their own righteousness.

Salvation (Righteousness) is a gift from God. (Romans 5:15-21) It is not something we attain, it something we recieve.

In order for an individual to recieve the Righteousness that comes from God, they need to be brought to a place where they despair of their own righteousness.

Or(like the rich young ruler)they will not see a need for God's gift even if HE is standing right in front of them.


How do you know this? Why did Jesus extend the invitation to sell his riches and give to the poor and follow Him and His disciples?

The man was not ready...all he saw in Jesus was a good master...a teacher. That is why Jesus gave him the law.

In fact, in response to the man's question, "What shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?" Jesus told him to keep the commandments. He did not tell him to sell all that he had UNITL the man responded, "Master, all these have I observed from my youth."

Why didn't Jesus tell him to sell all and follow Him right away?

Selling all and following Christ does not, will not, cannot, save anyone. Selling all and following Christ...offering up my body as a living sacrifice is a response.....WORSHIP IS A RESPONSE...


To the Gospel! The Good News. I will offer my life to Christ as a living sacrifice for Joy!

Brother, there are multitudes who have "an understanding" of Jesus' righteousness but have not forsaken all and thus cannot enter in. Multitudes and multitudes

Who? and how do you know this? Enter in to what?

The bible does not talk about an understanding of Christ's righteousness. It talks about trusting in His righteousness alone. And the only people that will trust in Christ's Righteousness alone, are those who have despaired of ever producing a righteousness that can stand before a Holy God.

And that is the purpose of the law in evangelism. To put a spot light on sin, and expose the utter depravity of the human heart.

That's what Jesus was doing.

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roaringlamb

The bible does not talk about an understanding of Christ's righteousness. It talks about trusting in His righteousness alone. And the only people that will trust in Christ's Righteousness alone, are those who have despaired of ever producing a righteousness that can stand before a Holy God.

I would even say that the majority of what Jesus was teaching while on Earth pointed to this very thing. The Pharisees trusted in a religious righteousness, the Jew trusted in a national righteousness, the gentiles trusted in their own righteousness. Then Jesus comes into the realm of humanity and says, "except your righteousness exceed that of the Scribes and the Pharisees..." Would any have dared to say that theirs did? as they were the epitome of holiness and consecration to God.

Yet Paul makes it very clear in his epistles that primarily his gospel did not come from man, but from the revelation of Christ. What was this "good news"? That "by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified", Paul even spoke of his righteousness as a Pharisee as "dung" compared the righteousness by faith in Christ.

See too many stop prior to the Cross and say, "there's the standard, now live it." But who else could? If Christ only came to show us the way to live a perfect life, why enter as a babe and live perfectly before man and God. Better yet, why even be born God and man? why not simply rebuke and condemn all those who cannot live the moral duties set before them?

Yet the point of the Gospel, the good news, is that He obeyed the Law for us, He died for us, and rose for our justification. His righteousness is ours in both imputation(justification), and impartation(sanctification).
To miss this is tragic, as one will rarely sense peace with God, as all will be based upon their keeping of the Law, or of morals they have ascribed as Christian behaviour.

In all of this, we cannot blot out these words, "come unto me all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest for your souls." Of course no man will admit he is weary until God convinces him, but once that poverty is admitted and the remedy applied, Oh what a joyous soul is within!!! But that requires a ceasing from our own righteousnesses which are as filthy rags, and trusting His righteousness which is purely wondrous!

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PaulWest

Brother, you were the one who mentioned people not having an "understanding" of the cross. I'm not going to turn this into another debate. I think you are missing the point in our discussion. This was never about the attainment or obtainment of salvation, and I actually agree with much of what are saying (to a point).

I think I've said all I could. Maybe we're both misfiring! The Lord bless your studies.

Brother Paul :-)

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sermonindex

Brother, there are multitudes who have "an understanding" of Jesus' righteousness but who have not forsaken all and thus cannot enter in. Now, when I say "all" I do not mean mere physical objects; I'm speaking of the hidden, spiritual things, the invisible powers, unmortified lusts of the flesh that still surge and hold empire over us and prevent us from giving God the utter and total abandonment of our beings.

That's absolutely right. God only imputed, or considers righteous, which is to say, God only forgives the past sins of those who forsake all their sin.

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sermonindex

Brother, there are multitudes who have "an understanding" of Jesus' righteousness but who have not forsaken all and thus cannot enter in. Now, when I say "all" I do not mean mere physical objects; I'm speaking of the hidden, spiritual things, the invisible powers, unmortified lusts of the flesh that still surge and hold empire over us and prevent us from giving God the utter and total abandonment of our beings.


Have you done this? Has anyone done this? Forsaken all? And if "forsaking all" saves a man, then why did Jesus have to die on a cross?

You might say that Peter and the others forsook all because, in Mark 10, they told Jesus they did.
But if we follow it through we will see that when persecution arose, Peter and the rest actually forsook Jesus, and actually Peter went right back to his old life.

And why do we have to qualify what "forsaking all" means. According to Mark 10 Jesus was talking about forsaking riches, but no, no ,no its not physical objects...its "hidden, spiritual things, the invisible powers, unmortified lusts of the flesh that still surge and hold empire over us."

Well which is it?

Do you know that there is a whole religious group called 12 Tribes, and they state that if an individual does not sell all they have and give it to the poor and then go live in their communities, then that individual is not saved.

They believe in the death, and resurection of Jesus. They read the bible. Is what they say correct. Does an individual have to sell all and give it to the poor in order to be saved?

And if they are not correct, then please tell me why?

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sermonindex

Only Jesus saves us. But Jesus said he would only save us, if we voluntarily forsake all of our sin and follow him.

Repentance doesn't forgive us, Jesus forgives us. But Jesus only forgives sin upon condition that the sin has been repented of, that is, He only forgives the sins that we turn away from.

There is no forgiveness for present willfull sins. But only for past, repented sins.

And Jesus is worth it. When we really love Jesus, we would be willing to leave any sin behind for Him!! Not selfishly for ourselves, but to please Him!

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PaulWest

According to Mark 10 Jesus was talking about forsaking riches, but no, no ,no its not physical objects...its "hidden, spiritual things, the invisible powers, unmortified lusts of the flesh that still surge and hold empire over us."

The gloating over physical objects (riches) are evidences of inward lusts. I have a car, and a home, and a computer, and a savings account. But these things do not have me, they do not have my heart. They had the rich young ruler's heart.

Jesus always went straight for the heart; Under the Law of Grace the spiritual supercedes the physical, but for the Mosaic law the outward deeds were judged. Under grace, lusting with eyes is now tantamount to physical adultery, hating someone is now tantamount to murdering them, etc. The Pharisees taught men to write their wives bills of divorce and be done with it - but Jesus said it was adultery, and that whoever married a divorced woman is an adulterer too. He raised the bar! He said unless men's righteousness [i]exceeded[/i] that of the Pharisees, they will not enter into the Kingdom.

The spiritual always supercedes the carnal, the carnal has its roots in the spiritual; in other words, carnal manifestations of sin (sinful deeds of the body) spring from the unseen, unmortified spiritual lusts in our bodies. When Peter forsook the Lord, his fear for self (albeit he still loved Jesus) surfaced as result of the trial (God uses Satan to "sift" us, for such a purpose) and Peter was made aware of it. But Peter had faith in God, and he knew Jesus.

Do you know that there is a whole religious group called 12 Tribes, and they state that if an individual does not sell all they have and give it to the poor and then go live in their communities, then that individual is not saved.

Again, we're not talking about salvation. I thought we we're talking about the rich young ruler and his riches versus Christ's righteouness.


Brother Paul

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Again, we're not talking about salvation. I thought we we're talking about the rich young ruler and his riches versus Christ's righteouness.

If the subject was not salvation, than what was the subject?

Wasn't the rich young ruler inquiring how to obtain eternal life?

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roaringlamb

There is no forgiveness for present willfull sins. But only for past, repented sins.

This is a lie!! I do not know what Gospel you have heard, but if we are only forgiven for past sins then who fulfills the requirements to enter Heaven?

Whose perfect life, and obedience to the Law allows complete and utter forgiveness of ALL sin past, present, and future? I certainly hope you do not preach that one's past sins are forgiven, but then man must live faultlessly until his death for entrance into Heaven. If you do, you are no different than the Roman Catholic men who say that we are only justified if we are sanctified, and while you're at it, you better invent your own type of purgatory to do away with the sin in man so he can get into Heaven once he reaches "perfection".

By saying this Jesse you have rendered the Cross pointless, and have made man the one who deserves Heaven because of his obedience. Everything revolves around man and his supposed greatness, his ability to do good. Jesus is just a helper to wipe out the mistakes from before, but now we can do it on our own.

The point of Christ's obedience to all commands of the Law(moral, and ceremonial) was so that obedience would be imputed, or reckoned to the accounts of the people He died for by faith. Of course the faith is from the regenerated heart which God sovereignly works as He wills by His Spirit. But you trample all this under foot and say that a man can start with a clean slate, but then through his own efforts must keep it clean, and thereby earn or merit Heaven? This is repulsive, and again counts Christ's sacrifice as nothing. His merit, and His merit alone is the means and end of our salvation!!!

Man is spiritually dead, and would remain that way unless God intervened. Thus those whom he gives life to, He will not snuff out. He will forgive them of all sin, so that there is no condemnation, so that those He calls are justified, and those that are justified, will be glorified. Those who were warned about drawing back, and falling from grace were creating their own means of righteousness, and some type of work they could hold up before God as a means of acceptance with Him, while meanwhile shunning the Cross, and grace. Hmmm, sounds a bit like what you're teaching Jesse. So as a brother and someone who is concerned for you and your hearers, please accept the work Christ has done for you, and cease from your labour. God will only accept you in Christ, through His work upon the Cross, and in spite of your weaknesses and failures, that is why we are under grace, and not law.

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PaulWest

Wasn't the rich young ruler inquiring how to obtain eternal life?

Yes, he was. You are right in saying Jesus gave him the law as an answer. Remember, the rich young ruler asked Jesus in all three gospel accounts, "What must I [i]do[/i] to inherit eternal life?" And Jesus told him how to [i]do[/i] it:

"Keep the commandments and you will have eternal life."

The man asserted he had kept all the commandments from his youth up. "What still do I lack?" he asked.

Then, Jesus used [i]grace[/i] to expose his hidden lust, the lust that the Law could never finger. See, his outward deeds according to the law of Moses may have been blameless, but the law of the Spirit revealed the inside of the cup, and it was full of the love of mammon. The lack was not found in a comprehension of Christ's righteousness; it was rather the love of money and possessions in his heart that kept him from following Christ and becoming a disciple.

Because no man can serve two masters.

You don't believe me? Why, then, did Jesus in Mark 10 tell the man that [i]after[/i] he gave up his possessions to the poor, to [b]take up his cross and follow Him?[/b] How do you reconcile this to your theory that the one thing he lacked was an identity of Christ's righteousness? Also, in Luke 18:22 in the KJV we find a colon (:) after "Yet lackest thou one thing:" The statement which proceeds the colon tells us [i]what[/i] this lack is. I believe God included this important story (in all three synoptic gospels, btw) to show that certainly our righteousness from the law is as filthy rags, and that man cannot serve both God and mammon, and also to emphasize how great a snare riches will be and how they would prevent so many -- who would otherwise [i]gladly[/i] follow Jesus -- from entering into the Kingdom of heaven.

Incidentally, you still haven't answered my question: Why didn't Levi react the same, when Jesus told him to leave his tax booth and [b]follow him[/b]; how do you differentiate between the the ruler and Levi...and Zaccheus for that matter? And please try not to say the rich young ruler was simply "not ready" - you have no scriptural basis for that. Also, in the same verse in Mark 10, Jesus said to "go sell all and give to poor" and he concluded, "and you'll have treasure in heaven." Is it absolutely contingent on God (on the matter of comprehending and trusting in the righteusness of Christ) in order for us to exchange worldly riches for heavenly riches? Why then would Jesus put the ball in the rich ruler's court...and then allow him to walk away sorrowfully?

Brother Paul

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How do you reconcile this to your theory that the one thing he lacked was an identity of Christ's righteousness?

As you said earlier, there must be a disconnect in what we are trying to explain. (pretty common on this forum)

I never said the one thing he lacked was an "identity of Christ's righteousness?". What he lacked was "perfect righteousness"...just like all men. I think you would agree. (Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one)

Yes, he knew he lacked something, and that reality of "lack" is present with any man or woman who tries to be justified by the law.

10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them

He came to Jesus with the intention of trying to find out how he could be justified (obtain eternal life) by the works of the law. (What must I do...?)

I know you would agree that we are justified by faith. Now (after the Cross), we know, that we obtain eternal life by Grace, through Faith...it is a gift from God. We know do not earn salvation through any works of our own, call it surrender, forsaking all, selling all that we have, whatever.

Jesus on the other hand, being the Word, knew this well before we did (I am being factious) He knew His purpose was to give His life a ransom for many.

So, if Jesus thought that man was ready to believe the Gospel at that moment. Why did He not tell the man to believe on Him?
Why did He not give that man Good News?

My main contention with these "One Thing You Lack" messages, is they talk about surrendering that one last final issue in your life......and then, yes then... you will enter into life. When you have surrendered all!!

For the Christian, there will always be something else to surrender to God. Our hearts are wicked and deceitful, and God will be continually exposing our heart in light of His Son. This is part of what it means to be conformed into His image.

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PaulWest

I think we're speaking the same thing, brother. Thanks for hatching this out with me. Unity is an exquisite thing.

Brother Paul :-)

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rowdy2

God does if they are confessed,ashamed and except death.

Eddie

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RobertW

Whose perfect life, and obedience to the Law allows complete and utter forgiveness of ALL sin past, present, and future? I certainly hope you do not preach that one's past sins are forgiven, but then man must live faultlessly until his death for entrance into Heaven.

Generally this soteriological view requires a person to stay in a continual state of repentance, confession, and asking for forgiveness. In this view grace cannot deal with any sin that has not yet been committed. Nothing is forgiven until it is confessed and forsaken. A saint is on the same ground as a sinner if they have committed a sin. There is no difference unless the person remains in perfection. If you die and your last act is a sin- you are damned to everlasting hell. This creates a sort of 'preoccupation' with sin as the focus of the person's Christian experience is no longer a loving [i]relationship[/i] but one of performance (i.e. slave and slave master).

Yet a slave never called his owner 'ABBA' that I'm aware of? Nor did they call them [i]friend[/i]. Error begets error. A wrong view of the atonement makes the purpose of the cross one in which God demonstrates His [i]hatred[/i] of sin by making an public example out of Jesus. That is all. In this view the cross means nothing more. However, it is a half true. It is true that we get a glimpse of God's hatred of sin and what we deserve as sinners; but what we see most, and it is the message often mysteriously missing from most repentance based messages, is [i]the revelation of God's love in the offering of His Son in our place.[/i]

Repentance preachers like to demonstrate how angry God is and how much wrath a sinner deserves. Everything seems bent to this end. What we end up with is an angry God and unworthy subjects. To facilitate this kind of 'relationship' (between God and man) the atonement cannot have truly paid the penalty for [i]my[/i] or anyone else's sins. I am forgiven, in this view, because God shows mercy and not because God paid the penalty on the cross. Why? Because in government theology no one can suffer for someone else.

Now we have a very serious problem. Sinners come to God in fear and trepidation often disguised as 'Holy Ghost Conviction'. Sort of like the feeling a child gets in the dark when his parents sent him to do an errand in the basement at night. If there is not a sense of love interwoven into the compulsion then it is [u]not[/u] Holy Ghost conviction. It is full on fear alone.

Now the real problem arises. People come to God and are uncertain whether He is an angry God to keep appeased or a loving God to call ABBA? [i]Trust is the fruit of knowing you are loved[/i]. Folk don't know God loves them- but, how could He? He's looking to damn me to hell at any moment if I sin. He places me on the same ground as a sinner after each transgression. As a father I have sense enough to know that I love my own children more than that. So then I have to ask, am I a better father than ABBA? I trow not.

But, but, but, but, Robert- if we don't scare people with hellfire all the time they will never love God! So we are manipulation folk with hell to get them to love God? We are using the whip of God's wrath to get them to serve Him and walk in the Spirit? That is like a golfer pulling out a driver to putt a 6 inch shot on the green and swinging with all his might. Is this the kind of ABBA relationship we have with God? [i]Trust is the fruit of knowing you are loved[/i]. Why are we so afraid to allow people to believe that God truly loves them and desires what is best for them. That He desires to have a loving relationship that is not based on fear - but on love?

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roaringlamb

So we are manipulation folk with hell to get them to love God?

Brother Robert, there was so many good points in your post, thank you.

I wanted to focus upon the point above.

To me this is the tragedy of the modern day. People try to manipulate folks into a "decision", and then when they do, they are told they are Christians.

All of this is meaningless without the work of the Holy Spirit for the natural man cannot understand spiritual things, and the preaching of the cross is foolishness to them that are perishing. So unless God the Holy Spirit gives spiritual life to a person, they cannot beleive the good news, nor will they want to.

This has been the greatest challenge to my own personal view of the order of salvation, for until recently, I had always held to the belief that when a man believed, he was given life. But I find that that view puts the cart before the horse. Man cannot come to Christ unless the Father draws him, man cannot hear the good news unless the Spirit gives him ears to hear. Thus a man believes because he has been given life, or a new heart.

So it has nothing to do with us manipulating, or scaring people into a decision at all. For unless God gives them life to believe, they will not, even with the threats of hell being presented to them.

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RobertW

So it has nothing to do with us manipulating, or scaring people into a decision at all. For unless God gives them life to believe, they will not, even with the threats of hell being presented to them.

I am thinking about the various ways that the scripture describes God's visitation of sinners. I Peter 2:12 speaks of a 'day of visitation'. The idea being, the time when God comes to bring them under His care. I think of the responsibility placed upon the person, that is, the 'hearer of God's voice'. Hebrews warns in a couple places, "Today if you will hear His voice harden not your heart." So there are certainly times when God comes to make Himself known. Maybe Wesley would call this 'prevenient grace'. The eyes of the understanding are enlightened to know the hope of His calling. For a moment in time it all makes sense. The 'lightbulb' comes on; at least long enough for the person to make a decision.

And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.(John 3)

Light is the evidence that God is near (if you won't mind me just saying that). The presence of God in the Old Testament comes from a concept that means to look [i]face to face[/i]. With "open face as in a glass..." makes me think of the presence of God. When Moses came down from the mountain the people covered His face with a vail. They could not bare to look upon God- even the residual evidence that God had been near. None gathered around to say, "Moses let me look on your face! Let me somehow share in the radiance of your experience with God on the mountain." When they saw God- or more excellently the evidence that God had 'been there'; the [i]vapor trail[/i] (as it were), they wanted no part of it.

This is the perspective from which the unbelieving Jews read the Bible. They read with the vail over God's presence. You see, it was not Moses' face that the people could not bare to see- it was God's face they would not look upon. They could not endure a 'face to face' with God- the presence of God. And this is the true definition of religion; [i]worship in the absence of God.[/i] Reading the bible in the absence of God. Going to church in the absence of God. Singing in the absence of God. Some folk are content to have all the expression of religion (because we were created for relationship with God) and yet God remain absent; less than a loving Father, less than a close friend and less than a 'pen-pal'. Certainly less than [i]Emmanuel[/i].

So what do we do when God visits and folk are content to just resist Him or ignore Him? When they reject His love? I think the first question we have to ask ourselves is; did they get a real opportunity to hear the Gospel as it is revealed in scripture? Not a message crafted by a wounded messenger; forged in the fires and smoke of years of hardened warfare in the trenches of this world. But a fresh revelation of the Gospel of Christ- as vibrant and real as the fresh fruit of summer or the purity of a breath of air after a sweet summer rain?


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PreachParsly

Now we have a very serious problem. Sinners come to God in fear and trepidation often disguised as 'Holy Ghost Conviction'. Sort of like the feeling a child gets in the dark when his parents sent him to do an errand in the basement at night. If there is not a sense of love interwoven into the compulsion then it is not Holy Ghost conviction. It is full on fear alone.

Now the real problem arises. People come to God and are uncertain whether He is an angry God to keep appeased or a loving God to call ABBA? Trust is the fruit of knowing you are loved. Folk don't know God loves them- but, how could He? He's looking to damn me to hell at any moment if I sin. He places me on the same ground as a sinner after each transgression. As a father I have sense enough to know that I love my own children more than that. So then I have to ask, am I a better father than ABBA? I trow not.

Yes, I've seen what you are talking about. It rarely ever lasts. Of course if you flip it around and go to the other extreme you will also cause a bad impression. The verse below has stuck with me for years.

Pro 17:15 He that justifieth the wicked, and he that condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD.

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sermonindex

There is no forgiveness for present willfull sins. But only for past, repented sins.
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This is a lie!!

Forgiveness, upon the condition of repentance, is what my entire bible tells me from Genesis to Revelation.

What else does Luke 13:3 mean, but that unless you repent you will perish. But that if you repent, you will not perish. Because God will forgive you because of the atonement.

When does God forgive sinners? When they repent.

When did God destroy cities full of sinners? When they didn't repent.

When did Christ upbraid the cities? When they repented not.

Christ has already died for all. And God already wants everyone saved. The only thing that is lacking is their own personal repentance, to actually turn to God so that they can be forgiven.

All of the elements for forgiveness are there. The willingness of God to forgive is there. The atonement for the sins of all is there. The only thing lacking is their own repentance and faith.

1. Can you show me just a single scripture where God ever forgive an impenitent man?

2. Where does God ever pardon a sinner, except when the sinner repented?

In all of scripture, there is not a single incident of God justifying the impenitent. Rather, all those who refuse to repent are condemned to hell.

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1. God wants everyone to be saved. (Eze 33:11, 2Pet 3:9)

2. Christ has died for all. (John 1:29, John 3:16, Rom 5:18, 2Cor 5:19, Heb 2:9, Col 1:20, 2Tim 2:4-6, 1John 2:22, 1John 4:15, 1Tim 4:10)

3. The only thing needed now for actual salvation to take place is for a sinner to actually repent and believe. (Luke 13:3)

His own impenitence and unbelief is the only thing that keeps back the grace of God. (Matt 23:37, Luke 13:34, John 5:40, Rev 22:17)

That is why the Holy Spirit is convicting all men of sin, righteousness, and judgment to come (John 16:8) striving with man to bring about repentance and faith.

Some sinners resist the grace of God (Acts 7:51), rejecting the counsel of God for their own salvation (Luke 7:30) while others do not resist the grace of God. (Acts 26:19)

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sermonindex

Consider:

- Heb 10:26-31 says the blood does not cover present, or future, willfull sins

- Romans 3:25 says God forgives past sins.

- Luke 13:3 says only repented sins are forgivable.

There is why I conclude, from scripture, that only our past sins (our repented sins) are forgiven, because only repented sins are forgivable. While willfull or future sins must first be repented of before they can be forgiven.

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RobertW

In all of scripture, there is not a single incident of God justifying the impenitent. Rather, all those who refuse to repent are condemned to hell.

Hi Jesse,

I completely agree and teach and have taught repentance from sin and faith towards God. I believe that a sinner gets no farther with God than his response to the controversies he/she has with God.

The question may need to be revisited, what is repentance? Perhaps we have not heard the last word on the subject? Perhaps we have blurred repentance and sanctification? To repent is to [i]change[/i] our mind and [i]turn[/i] towards God. It is a change in direction. Somehow we have made repentance to mean perfection. The more I think on this the more impossible it becomes. Can a Leopard change its spots? I mean, really? If we don't need God's intervention then why do we need anything other than the book? We read the biblical instructions (laws) and salvation becomes a self-help "step by step" guide to sanctification.

This is impossible because what God is loking for is not conformity to the Law- but the fruit of the Spirit against which there is [u]no[/u] law. Galatians tells us clearly that [i]having begun in the Spirit we are not made perfect by the flesh[/i]. These people 'had begun in the Spirit'. They had received since they believed. This came about from their repentance and conversion similarly as we read early on in Acts. They repented, were converted, their sins were blotted out and the times of refreshing came from the presence of the Lord.

Paul asked the Galatians the question; did you receive the Holy Spirit by the works of the Law or the hearing of faith?" It was a rhetorical question. To me this is the fundamental question.

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sermonindex

I've always saw repentance as an act of faith, consisting in turning away from sin and turning towards God.

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roaringlamb

Jesse I would ask you, when did the Gospel ever become, "confess every sin you've ever committed, and then you shall be saved"?

I agree that the unsaved must "repent and believe the gospel." However this cannot be done unless the heart is regenrated as Christ told Nicodemas, "except a man be born again he cannot see(understand, discern, see) the kingdom of Heaven", and also Christ told the multitudes who were offended by His speaking in John 6, "no man can come to me unless the Father that has sent me draws him." (v44)
And also later He went on to say-
John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

So the only way a man can believe the Gospel is by spiritual birth as the natural man cannot receive or understand spiritual things for they are foolishness to him. Man is dead spiritually, and no amount of introspection or sorrow for sin can change that, he must be born again before he will repent. Repentance and faith are the results of the new birth, not the cause.

If it is as you say that a man simply must just believe of his own accord, and confess his sins, then I suppose you don't need to be born again, and man now can somehow produce spiritual life on his own. Sadly many of the errors in the church today flow from this thought, primarily because so many have idolized Finney and his ways.

Now as for unconfessed sin, I ask you have ever sinned after becoming a Christian? Of course if you are honest, you will say yes. Now did that suddenly cut you off from God, and boot you out of Heaven? Did you have to be re-born again again so you could gain entrance back into Heaven? If so, then all is based upon your work, and your self righteousness, and nullifies the righteousness of Christ.

Notice this verse
Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby [b]ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.[/b]

Notice that Paul exhorted the Ephesians to not grieve the Spirit, but then told them they were sealed by the Spirit unto the day of redemption. According to what you say, Paul is wrong here, and should say, "grieve not the Holy Spirit, for if you do you will be unsealed, and in danger of missing your redemption."

Now also, what about the sins of omission you committ each day? Wasting of time, harshness toward your wife, not giving your wife the time she needs, not being a godly husband, impure thoughts, and the list goes on and on and on. So do you confess each of these even if you do not know you have committed them? or does the sacrifice of Christ cover these too? If you remember, in the OT there was a sacrifice for sins of omission as well as comission, and since every sacrifice was a type of Christ's perfect sacrifice, it would be safe to say that Christ has paid for all the sins, as "by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified" Heb 10:14

As for your other points, if God wanted all men to be saved, they would be. There is not one thing that happens or does not happen that is outside of God's omnipotence. If there was, He would cease to be omnipotent.

Usually the misunderstanding is a misapplication of the word "all", and it does not always mean all in the contexts of passages. For instance
Luke 2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that [b]all the world should be taxed.[/b]

Well, how much did America pay? How much did the Chinese pay, or Mexico? Obviously this means all of the Roman world, as does many of the passages people use to back up universal redemption. Even John 3:16 "for God so loved the world" Of course Jesus is speaking to a proud Jewish rabbi, who as the Jews did then, believed salvation was only for the Jews. Jesus in effect says, "no God loves all nations, and thus He sent His Son, and whoever believes shall be saved."

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NLONG

WOW! What a discussion! Gonna take a lot of time to digest this.

Brother Jesse, thanks for your article. Just read the first half though quickly and not sure I agree with everything, but that's not required here. Appreciate the work you did. However, I would say in this tennis match I disagree a little with both sides. I'll try to get though your article. Thanks again.

If salvation is totally a work of God, then all would be saved because God wants none to perish. So, it must be conditional - based on many of the things described already.

Also, why is it that any work of man is totally without merit in God's eyes. I think that Paul's phrase on being "saved by grace and not by works" is not all inclusive, but is only reffering to works of the law, which Paul doesn't fail to differentiate elsewhere in his epistles. Certainly, we are not justified by the law: circumsision, keeping of days, etc. But we must do some work in believing, repenting and so forth. Again, else all men would be saved because God would work all of this in all men.

Roaringlamb wrote:

The problem by making repentance the work by which a man receives justification, is that it leads to a man thinking he is justified by the works he has done rather than by God's grace alone. Paul had some rather harsh words for those who sought to be justified by the works of the law.

But the tax collector went home justified because of repentence. And it wasn't God repenting in this man, it was the man that repented and God justified him. Else, the pharisee would have repented also because this is what God wanted him to do, because God also wanted him saved.

Also, repentence isn't a work of the law. It is a work of man and God together. God grants the power and man peforms the act based on that power.

Abraham was justified when he believed because it was accounted to him for righteousness. Did God make him believe? Never. Abraham believed God, and God said he was righteous.

So we see that salvation to take a quote from Reidhead, "Not an either-or, but a both-and." It takes God working in us and it takes man to work.

Listened to a great audio from Paris Reidhead last week and it challenged me greatly. It was "So Great Salvation." In the beginning, it challenged my idea of what saved means - 4 tenses to the word salvation:
Past perfect tense - I have been saved from the pleasure of sin - repentence.
Past tense - I was saved from the penalty of sin - justification.
Present tense - I am being saved from the power of sin - sanctification.
Future tense - I shall be saved from the presence of sin - glorification.

First, I would say it takes God to draw us.
Second, It takes man to hear the gospel - without hearing man cannot believe.
Third, man believes the gospel. This seemingly is all mans job, but I am reminded of the parable of the sower, where Satan takes the seed of some hearts. So, man must believe with God's providence.
Fourth, as man believes he repents. He not only believes the gospel, but that he is a wicked sinner. The appropriate response is repentence. However, for me to have victory over sin, I must have God's power to save me from sin. And so forth with the above Reidhead quotes.

Of course, the grace of God accompanies and saturates each step along the way.

What do we preach then?
First, Christ - life, death, resurrection.
Second, Law - without the preaching of which there is no knowledge of sin.
Third, all of the works God seeks to work in us (that the apostles touched on) - belief, repentence, baptism, regeneration, etc.

Needless to say, I am simply a voice for God, not God himself. God does things His way.

Bless you all!

S
sermonindex

when did the Gospel ever become, "confess every sin you've ever committed, and then you shall be saved"?

Verbal confession of every single sin you have committed IS NOT a condition for salvation. That would require a perfect memory, which is impossible and therefore would be an unreasonable requirement.

Rather, the heart must abandon all sin as a whole (not just particular sins remembered) in order to be saved. Repentance is an act of faith, consisting in turning to God which requires a turning away from sin.

Repenting of sins is to turn away from all sins. Repenting is not confession. Confession is not repentance. Confession of all personal and particular sins is impossible and unreasonable, since nobody remembers all that. But repentance from all sin in general is not only reasonable but absolutely required.

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Without God's grace nobody would ever have come to God. And Titus 2:11 says God's grace teaches us to live godly and righteously in this present world. I believe in [b][i]regeneration by revelation.[/i][/b] as brought by the enlightening and illuminating of the Holy Spirit.

1Ti 2:4 - Who will have all men to be [b]saved,[/b] and to come unto the [b]knowledge of the truth.[/b]

Eph 4:23 - And be [b]renewed[/b] in the spirit of your [b]mind[/b]

Col 3:10 - And have put on the new man, which is [b]renewed in knowledge[/b] after the image of him that created him:

Men are corrupted by selfish deception, but are saved by the knowledge of the truth. And it is God's grace which teaches us this knowledge, to influence our wills. Not to force us to get saved, but to influence us to get saved. And those who obey the truth will be saved, and those who obey not the truth will be damned. It is our choice, to resist God's grace by disobeying His revelation, or to submit to God's grace by obeying His revelation.

S
sermonindex

Here is a brother who liked this article very much and put it's message to video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6503272052098986425

I can't believe the quotes that he found from some of these modern preachers, who say repentance is not necessary to be saved, that preaching repentance as necessary is a false gospel, and that Jesus saves sinners IN their sin rather then FROM their sin!

He quotes from this article at 28:15 in the timeline of this video.

C
Christinyou

Quote:

" Man is dead spiritually, and no amount of introspection or sorrow for sin can change that, he must be born again before he will repent. Repentance and faith are the results of the new birth, not the cause"

Yes! How can one repent when he knows not what to repent of. We are born again that we might repent, not the other way around. Then we will learn revealed sin all our lives and then we can repent. No one has or can repent before the birthing, The Holy Spirit convicts of sin, we believe that we need Jesus Christ the Son of God, then repentance is meaningful and will accomplish that which the Holy Spirit was sent to live in us by the Christ birthed in us through His prayer answered by the Father, then repentance is a wonderful cleansing baptizing into the One Spirit we have become. 1Cr 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. The Spirit of the Living God through the Spirit of the Living Word Himself and The Spirit of our Father living in the believer preparing him for the Father's house.

In Christ: Now repentance capable: Phillip

R
roaringlamb

How can one repent when he knows not what to repent of

That is what is so amazing about the work of regeneration. If left on his own, man would "drink down iniquity like water", and continue on and on and on in sin because he knows nothing else. But God intervenes by His Spirit and causes the heart to be convicted, and what was once normal behaviour is now seen to be an offence to God.

I know from my own experinence of grace that had God not intervened, I would not have "done" anything, and if my heart had not been changed, or my eyes opened, I would still be dead in sin. But now by His grace, I am alive in Christ!

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