Global warming/Christian response?

jordanamo said

Thus you may explain an event such as Katrina as merely an effect of the earth being warmed from greenhouse gases, etc., instead of looking at it prophetically as a possible judgment from God.

It is prophetic. The prophets spoke of it. And we're going to pay dearly for destroying the earth - in this life, if not the next.

"Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us." (ISA 14:8)

"[b]The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant[/b]. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: [b]therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.[/b]" (ISA 24:5-6)

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, [b]that they should be judged[/b], and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; [b]and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.[/b]" (REV 11:18)

"Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath [b]a controversy with the inhabitants of the land[/b], because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land. By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood. [b]Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away.[/b]" (HOS 4:2-3)

"[b]How long shall the land mourn, and the herbs of every field wither, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein? the beasts are consumed, and the birds; because they said, He shall not see our last end...[/b] Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness. [b]They have made it desolate[/b], and being desolate it mourneth unto me; the whole land is made desolate, because no man layeth [it] to heart... They have sown wheat, but shall reap thorns: they have put themselves to pain, [but] shall not profit: and they shall be ashamed of your revenues because of the fierce anger of the LORD." (JER 12:4-13)

Joe,
I don't believe global warming is a political question or issue, it's a creation care/stewardship issue. period.

Are there secular humanists attached to this issue?

yes.

But what better way to witness Jesus to them, to show them, who our Lord is, meaning that the commercial interests who plow ahead on this death spiral, meaning a fossil fuel-based economic system, their god is not Yahweh, their Lord and Savior is not Jesus, their god is money.

The facts, the truth of the massive amounts of filth spewed into the air we breath is that we all are altering this brilliantly constructed bio-system, and oh Praise His Name, I know Who created it. So if we, are destroying or denigrating what God has created, are we not sinning against Him?

God gifted us with our minds, some minds veer towards sowing destruction, others to crafting weapons, others towards rightly dividing the Word of God, others towards designing the very computers we type on. What I'm saying is this: the fine minds that God has so gifted us with, must now think out of the box, and craft a new type of engine, a new way to generate power, that does not involve the burning of fossil fuels. It's that simple.

Fine minds and yielded up hearts must come up with a way to filter water and bring clean drinking water to the billions of our fellow brothers and siters all over the world, who have no access to it. Think of it, what a wonderful way to engage in missions, clean drinking water, health clinics, and doing this in Who's Name?

Jesus.

Let the secularist's do their thing, but the whole creation care issue as filtered thru the heart of a follower of Jesus has nothing to do with "right" or "left", it has do with the love that Holy Spirit engenders in a follower of Jesus.

I have trouble looking at the African child dying of AIDS, orphaned and alone, and not see the face of my own child, or the wizened old Laotian woman rotting from within from intestinal parasites and not see my own mother.

We must be very wary of the spin coming from both secular humanist and commercial interests, they are both polluted and distorted by the dictates of the "gods" they follow, one follows the god of "humanism", one follows the god of "money". Both are on the path of darkness, futility and destruction.

But I know this: if I decided to burn a campstove in the enclosed environment of my dwelling, I'm going to change the atmosphere, dramatically.(lol?)

We have to be salt and light, we have to be a peculiar people, we have to be ready to sell everything, and give it to the poor, this is what Jesus Himself told the rich young ruler, this is not "left", this is not "right", it's JESUS Who gave us this calling, each to exercise it as one deems as the Lord's calling.

But the rich young man walked away with a long face, because he wasn't ready to become the revolutionary out of the box lover of God that Jesus told him to be.

I wrote this post not only to you Joe, but to me. I speak the truth when I say that.

Just wanted a few thoughts on the whole global warming issue

You might have misread me and my post, and I say that with all respect.

sounds like you care very much about the enviroment and not abusing it

Joe, I'm an ardent lover of God, and what He loves, and He loves His creation fore He crafted it with His Hands, His Mind, His Heart, the depths and breadth we can't even comprehend, nor fathom.

Yes, the world is fallen and falling, but that doesn't give us license to spit in the face of God, and to speed the process along by trashing His creation, nor by ignoring those of His children who suffer at the hands of the "god of this age".

I care nothing of "popular beliefs", nor am under any delusion that this world is "progressive", but that doesn't relieve me of the high calling of doing of what my Father does.

I don't know if you picked up on what i was trying to say, my "input" as you termed it....I don't mean that as a barb.

Evangelism and witness of Messiah can take many forms of expression. I know you understand that.

May God bless you and fill you.

easy Joe, what do you mean when you write?:

how some christians have taken up arms to prevent such warming if possible, where are their priorities at?

"taken up arms"? "where are their priorities at? "

or

This interfaith banding together for the greater good smacks of compromise, nobody seems to like absolutes anymore, except maybe krispykrittr (semper fi)

please explain to me how, sitting down with people of other faiths, and talking, engaging, reasoning is "compromise"? I don't understand.

Is one's faith so fragile and easily diverted that a follower of Jesus would be afraid to sit and reason with people of other faith's?

or is it that when one embraces "absolutes" that they put rigid, set in concrete parameters that forbid any intechange and dialogue between people?

There are only two "absolute"(s) that Jesus gave us, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart your mind, your soul, your strength" and "love your neighbor as yourself". Everything else is blind self opinion, and native prejuidices and pre-judgements.

Remember that He said, "Blessed are the peacemakers", and as much as I admire the Corps, Jesus didnt finish that statement off with "semper fi".

So when you question a person's priorities, prayerfully I ask, examine your's, and I will examine mine, as I still see thru a glass darkly.

Hi Joe

Do you really come from the North Pole? Sure your name isn't Santa Claus? I thought the North Pole was a bit further North than Alaska! :-D

Or is it the same as the fact we have a village called Bethlehem here in Wales?

Re global warming: I understand that much of the global warming business IS political propaganda. Apparently, what we put into the atmosphere makes very little difference. It seems that the earth is warming up, but mostly to do with the changes in the Sun.

Similar changes, fluctuations in temperature in response to the Sun's fluctuations, have happened before. Although, as has been suggested, this could be part of God's judgement too, and will increase.

But it suits people who want to control us to make us afraid that if we don't do something about global warming NOW, we will all be frazzled, and it will be our fault.

And people will in the end be willing to do almost anything EXCEPT repent of our sins against the true God and pray that He will stay His hand of judgement on the earth.

I wouldn't be surprised if this global warming business is part of the preparation for Antichrist coming to power. Same as wars, massive crime increase, terrorism etc. People will in the end be crying out for someone - ANYONE - to stop this madness that is about to destroy the environment, each other and the earth itself.

Don't forget, "anti" can mean "insted of", as well as "against". I believe the Antichrist will be the ultimate false Christ; so subtle and seductive that the world will hail him as the ultimate deliverer from all our troubles.

And it [i]is[/i] possible for even the elect to be deceived.

Yours in the true Christ

Jeannnette

Can God just be changing something around like changing the Jet Stream perhaps. When their is volcanic disturbances out in the ocean where an island is expanding more and more because of the outpouring of magma, we don't say nothing about it. But God is forming an island that will one day be habitable. When we see that, why don't we say, ahh the last days are upon us because lava is spewing out in the Atlantic Ocean.

I remember reading about the "little Ice age" during the middle ages where it was cold for a few years and crops failed and the like, these things are not new. Where I live, the weather is normal. In the 80's and 90's our winters were snowless, but in the last few years our winters have been back to normal.

But then again, I don't believe in this last day madness anyhow.

I understand that much of the global warming business IS political propaganda. Apparently, what we put into the atmosphere makes very little difference.

really? How is this global warming "business" political? Illuminate me, please.

and you can honestly say, that what filth we spew into the atmosphere in ever-increasing rates, "makes little difference"?

It's a creation care issue, it's about stewardship of what bounty God has given us. Fail to recognize this at our peril.

It has nothing to do with politics, it has everything to do with loving God and His mercy in provision.

Just as we labor for souls vying to enter the Kingodm of God, on earth as it is in heaven, please try and grasp that Divine concept.

you can heed my words, or you can't. The Body of Christ are the arms and the heart of Christ here on earth manifesting thru our actions.

According to Revelation, there will be global warming... but we have a few thousand degrees yet to go.

How is this issue political, you ask? Are you joking? The whole thing has been politicized to death.

No one argues that we are a few degrees warmer than we were 100 yrs ago. But the argument is over what is causing it. Or is it simply cyclical?

But it has become so politicized now that scientist who have a differing opinion on the causes are shouted down... Al Gore with his "snore-umentary" on the topic was chuck full of junk science, yet he is hailed by the far left as the savior of the planet.

Glenn Beck did an excellent one hour special on the whole political debate about global warming, and all the duplicity that is taking place on the part of the environmental extremists in this country. Hollywood movie stars telling everyone to stop driving SUV's, while they own 3 of them, get chauffered in limo's and criss-cross the country on jets.

Folks, so-called "green-house" gasses have been around since the beginning of time. They are part of God's creation.

I saw an article in the Charlotte Observer this weekend that talked about how some scientists are saying that people should be limited to 2 kids world-wide because one human being emits more CO2 into the atmosphere in a year than cars do in the duration of the car's life.

Pay attention to this! China only allows by law 1 child per couple. The abortion rate in China is higher than anywhere else in the world.

I dont know if the earth is any warmer than it was a century ago. I saw last winter where some county in NY state had 13 feet of snow on the ground.

I do know when I was in school we were taught that the earth was headed for another ice age. I graduated from high school in 1985. So in 22 yrs we've gone from "Oh no! Another ice age is coming" ... to ... "Oh no! The earth is going to burn up!"

Give it another 20 years... we'll be headed into another ice age.

Remember the hole in the ozone layer? We dont hear about that anymore. Why? Because they discovered that there are always holes in the ozone layer! Always have been... and without them, we would die.

Speaking of ice ages... according to scientists, the earth is millions of years old. God, the one who created the earth, disagrees. But think about what the scientists want us to believe. We're all going to die because of global warming, and it's just going to destroy the earth.

Well... I have a question!

How did the glaciers... which at one time covered a good percentage of the North American Continent... melt until they are where they are now?

Global Warming... thats how. If this happened millions of years ago, as these global warming scientists say it did, who caused it?

Was Og and Zig's SUV causing it? I know! Maybe it was dinosaur farts!

People are not causing global warming. They may not be helping it, but they are not causing it.

Krispy

No one argues that we are a few degrees warmer than we were 100 yrs ago. But the argument is over what is causing it. Or is it simply cyclical?

However, with all this talk about global warming, it has been in the last few years that our weather here has returned to seasonal temperatures. I live in the city.

Krispy said: Maybe it was dinosaur farts!

How is this issue political, you ask? Are you joking? The whole thing has been politicized to death

no, I'm not joking, nor am I joking when I say this, if I thought there was a meaningful, thoughtful discussion that would be possible with you, I would continue this with you.

But there's not. So I won't.

You "win", you're "right", there's no global warming, forget the concept of followers of Jesus engaged in creation care as one of the many ministries and witnesses we are tasked to do for Christ Jesus as His Body.

please explain to me how, sitting down with people of other faiths, and talking, engaging, reasoning is "compromise"? I don't understand.

I think we should come together with the prophets of baal and unite to work out the issue of global warming just like they did in the Church of Acts...

In Christ - Jim

no, I'm not joking, nor am I joking when I say this, if I thought there was a meaningful, thoughtful discussion that would be possible with you, I would continue this with you.

Well.. thats mature. Unfortunately this is the type of shrill and irrational response from people on the "other" side of this issue, which is actually what makes it impossible to have an intelligent conversation about it.

But there's not. So I won't.

Well, thats too bad because I would welcome a real conversation about this. However, when challenged, you run. If you plan to stick around this forum for long (and I honestly hope you do) you will be challenged by folks everyday. You shouldnt run from challenge... it's how we grow.

You "win", you're "right", there's no global warming

See... if you hadnt had such a predictable knee-jerk reaction to what I said you would have noticed that I said [b]NO ONE ARGUES THAT GLOBAL WARMING DOES SEEM TO BE HAPPENING[/b]. I never said it wasnt. I said I do not believe that [b]humans[/b] are causing it. But your too busy trying to be offended to actually read or quote people correctly.

forget the concept of followers of Jesus engaged in creation care as one of the many ministries and witnesses we are tasked to do for Christ Jesus as His Body.

You dont know anything about me, yet you judge me as not caring about the environment. I happen to be a member of several conservation groups, and I'm willing to bet that I do more for environment conservation than most environmental folks do. You're barking up the wrong tree when you accuse me of what you just accused me of.

Also... show me in the Bible where Jesus or the Apostles taught that believers are to be engaged in "creation care". I do believe that as believers we are not to trash our environment, but what you are describing is not even one time hinted at in the New Testament, or as a goal of the Body of Christ.

You picked the wrong forum if you think you can come on here and start spouting off to us about what the Bible says... when there is not one iota of truth behind what your saying (concerning what the Bible says about the matter).

Sorry this sounds harsh... but if you wish to play fast and loose with God's Word, I will call you out on it.

Krispy

Well.. thats mature.

your sarcasm aside, it is mature, and I'll tell you why, when I see you writing:

However, when challenged, you run.

this is the type of shrill and irrational response

if you hadnt had such a predictable knee-jerk reaction

But your too busy trying to be offended

yet you judge me

You picked the wrong forum if you think you can come on here and start spouting off to us

Sorry this sounds harsh... but if you wish to play fast and loose with God's Word, I will call you out on it.

so there it is, "you", "you" "you"

I'm "spouting", "shrill", "knee-jerk"(ing) (im)"mature" and "playing fast and loose with God's Word".

No, that's not harsh, (that's my sarcasm) and you best believe I'm running far away from having any dialogue with such as yourself. You're right Krispy, I just might have picked the wrong forum. I don't play "fast and loose" with the Word of God, but I'm not getting involved in needless controversies. I think I'll follow Jesus instead.

May God bless you.

I think we should come together with the prophets of baal

oh my. (sigh)

I can just feel the Grace and Love in that statement. You know what? It seems to me the Pharisees never really went away, they just morphed into 21st century American "evangelicals".

and the sad and tragic thing is this: some of you don't even see what you're doing and saying in the Sight of God. Just like the Pharisees.

oh well, God's in control, He'll be doing the sifting. I have faith in Jesus' return, and Him making it right.

very discouraging this forum.

I can just feel the Grace and Love in that statement. You know what? It seems to me the Pharisees never really went away, they just morphed into 21st century American "evangelicals".

Sir, I made a very matter of fact statement that is historically and scripturally true... Be very careful when you call someone a phraisee (especially when you dont know them) and speak of grace and love when you are showing very little of it.

Good day - Jim

Paul went among the Greeks on Mars Hill and he reasoned and discoursed with them, he did not consider them "unclean" and unfit to discourse with, he had shed the mantle of his pharaisical past. God spoke with Peter and told him to consider nothing "unclean", and that is why he went out of his comfort zone and witnessed to Cornelious an "unclean" Gentile.

That is matter of fact, and scripturally true. A Pharisee is one, who hides up in the Temple, where he is very comfortable and sees fit to murder and kill those he deems either enclean or prophets of baal. We are CALLED to engage, not to hide up in our holy edifices, throwing out condemnation upon those poor souls in darkness. Why was it that John the Baptist got as far as he could from the Temple in Jerusalem?

hmm?

I choose my words very carefully, and I close this missive to you with

May God bless you (not a curt "Good day")

worm4christ-

I go to "church" on the streets of Detroit with prostitutes, gang bangers and drug traffickers... sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ. I do not sit in a temple or take part in north american evangelicval chrsitianity. You have shown a lack of discernment in your posts and have jumped to rash judgements that are simply not true.

There is a difference between loving, ministering too, eating with and PLEDGING HANDS with "sinners" for a cause such as global warming.

Jesus warned for us to beware of the yeast of the pharisees AND the herodians. You would do well to study what the latter implies.

In Christ - Jim

but I'm not getting involved in needless controversies.

You're correct... you dont get involved in them. You just start them.

Krispy

Joe did.

and I didnt start any controversy. I spoke the words the Spirit put in my heart. Obviously you don't agree with what I wrote, which is fine, so be it.

Have the last word if you desire.

I go to "church" on the streets of Detroit with prostitutes, gang bangers and drug traffickers... sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ.

God be praised!

I trust you know my dear bro Pat Ersig, then?

If so, good, you travel in sweet fellowship.

May God bless you.

Paul went among the Greeks on Mars Hill and he reasoned and discoursed with them, he did not consider them "unclean" and unfit to discourse with, he had shed the mantle of his pharaisical past. God spoke with Peter and told him to consider nothing "unclean", and that is why he went out of his comfort zone and witnessed to Cornelious an "unclean" Gentile.

You're being a hypocrite, my friend. You have declared me unclean and have declared before all who read this sad thread that you will not discourse with me. Yet, you tell us about how Paul did not consider the Greeks to be unclean, and had no problem discoursing with them.

My original post was not aimed at you, and it was just me stating my own personal beliefs and opinions on it.

Rather than answer my challenges, you declared all types of judgements about me.

Have I judged you? I have in a sense... I judged your actions and your words. That is scriptural. Instead of answering my challenges, you opted to make yourself seem "holier than thou". Calling people pharisees when you nothing about them.... thats called "foolishness".

The hautiness you have exhibited on this forum so far is beyond any I have seen a long time.

This forum is a blessing if you choose to make it one. I'm all for talking about global warming... I dont have any problem discussing it. I'm confident in what I believe, but I am also open to other ideas on the matter, and have been known to change my thinking on certain subjects when God shows me that I need to make one.

You know nothing about any one of us. I would suggest you calm down and enter into this forum seeking to learn and be a teacher as well... not as Pharisee hunter. You seem to consider anyone who doesnt agree with [b]you[/b] to be a Pharisee.

Now... having said all that, IF you would like to have a dialogue concerning global warming, lets please begin with you giving us the scripture that backs up your statements about how "creation care" is a duty of the Body of Christ. Anywhere between Matthew and Revelation.

I promise you, I wont reply in a harsh manner if you would simply discuss the issue... and we both cease with this "back and forth" stuff.

Krispy

Have the last word if you desire.

I dont need the last work, brother... thats why I just put the ball back in your court.

Krispy

I do know Patrick very well... he is a dear brother to me. I hope now that we have found some common ground you will consider what I wrote regarding the pharisees and the herodians. the first were unloving and thought they should operate throught the power of their organized religion... the second were compromised with the world and thought they could operate through the power of government orgainization... this is were I see the danger in stuff like this and one.org. I humbly apologize if I came off as a pharisee in asserting that position.

In Christ - Jim

ooops... double post!

Krispy

you don't have to apologize, just give big Pat, Mary and the kids a holy kiss in Jesus' Name.

whether it be in a park in Detroit or in the halls of Rome, or in a secular "march", we must engage the people, for His sake

you don't have to apologize, just give big Pat, Mary and the kids a holy kiss in Jesus' Name.

They just left for California yesterday... they will be there for an indefinate amount of time.

very sad, but Gods will be done in all of our lives. Are you from the area?

In Christ - Jim

Hi

I tried to find out your real name, but it isn't on your profile. Saying "Dear Worm" doesn't seem very complimentaty!

Worms squiggle and squirm and maybe tie themselves in knots if handled roughly, but they don't bite back.

Think on.

Its best to listen and learn, and get to know them a bit, before you accuse people. Listen to their [u]hearts[/u], not the words they say.

Of course you will get a strong reaction back when you start getting personal, but honestly you asked for it!

I've been on this forum since February only, but quickly realised that Krispy and Jim have good hearts.

It hurts me when someone sets at naught my brothers.

Compliments disagreed with what I said too, but he did it nicely; discussing the issues instead of name calling. I have a great respect for him as another of my precious brothers.

As I said, listen and learn.

Blessings

Jeannette

Oops! Reading that last message of mine it sounds a bit patronising!

Sort of "Now Johnny, please play nicely or Mummy will give you a smack" kind of thing!

I don't know whether to laugh at myself or feel ashamed! :oops:

Jeannette

Jeannette-

You put many of us to shame, including myself, with your kind words and gentle responses on this forum. I do pray that we all continue to grow more and more in the areas of love and mercy... the weightier matters of the law.

Your brother in Christ - Jim

2 Peter 1:5 For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.

Rhys wrote:
Just a thought regarding this subject.

Why is the planet Mars also experiencing, "Global Warming"?

I think, and it is only a thought, maybe the Lord is in control and that the Chuurch should be comunicating this phenomenon as part of the coming judgement. (by the way, my wife is a rabbid recycler)

Rhys

Good to have someone else from Wales - there are a few of us around it seems. Are you Welsh speaking? Me, dim shara Cumraeg (if that's the right spelling) - or only a few words and phrases.

I didn't know that Mars was shown to be affected by warming - or is that a joke? It seems obvious, now you mention it, that all the planets would be affected if the main cause is changes in the Sun.

Not that it's an excuse to misuse our resources here of course.

I think someone said that it's probably a factor of God's judgement.

It also must surely be the ongoing effects of the curse - the ground cursed because of Adam's sin - and the whole earth too in the end.

Blessings

Jeannette

Compliments wrote:
Can God just be changing something around like changing the Jet Stream perhaps. When their is volcanic disturbances out in the ocean where an island is expanding more and more because of the outpouring of magma, we don't say nothing about it. But God is forming an island that will one day be habitable. When we see that, why don't we say, ahh the last days are upon us because lava is spewing out in the Atlantic Ocean.

I remember reading about the "little Ice age" during the middle ages where it was cold for a few years and crops failed and the like, these things are not new. Where I live, the weather is normal. In the 80's and 90's our winters were snowless, but in the last few years our winters have been back to normal.

But then again, I don't believe in this last day madness anyhow.

Jesus likened these various disasters - wars, famines, earthquakes etc (and multiplying of false Christs and false prophets) - to "birth pangs". The pains of childbirth start at long intervals, and not too painful. Gradually they get worse and more and more frequent, until at last the birth occurs.

So we would [u]expect[/u] gradually increasing and more frequent disasters as time goes on.

Jesus WILL return, and, who knows, it might be in the lifetime of some of us.

There is certainly a (spiritual) sense that the days are very very short now, although not all the signs are fulfilled yet.

The fact that many first cenury believers probably thought it would happen in their lifetime doesn't make any difference to the fact that He IS coming, and it could be soon. Not to go crazy and make a big fuss but to read the signs, wait, watch and pray.

I fact, one of the signs is that:

2Peter [i][color=000099]3:3 Above all, understand this: In the last days blatant scoffers will come, being propelled by their own evil urges 3:4 and saying, “Where is his promised return? For ever since our ancestors died, all things have continued as they were from the beginning of creation.” 3:5 For they deliberately suppress this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago and an earth was formed out of water and by means of water. 3:6 Through these things the world existing at that time was destroyed when it was deluged with water. 3:7 But by the same word the present heavens and earth have been reserved for fire, by being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly. [/color][/i]

Bro Compliments, I'm not likening you to those "scoffers", just pointing out that this in itself is a sign of the last days! The "scoffers" to me ar those who use the non-return of the Lord (not just yet) as an excuse to live carelesly. Which I'm certain you don't do!

Blessings

Jeannette

You're correct... you don't get involved in them. You just start them.

I'm glad I brought a smiley face to your day.

even if it is in response to a slanderous snide remark directed at me. Glad I brought some measure of joy to your day.

even if it is in response to a slanderous snide remark directed at me

Brother... for Christmas I am sending you a dictionary. Then, perhaps you can look up the meaning of words like "slanderous", etc... before you use them. :-)

Krispy

worm4Christ wrote:
I'm glad I brought a smiley face to your day.

even if it is in response to a slanderous snide remark directed at me. Glad I brought some measure of joy to your day.

Jeannette

Ginny... your mother was a clean freak, yet she married a farmer? That was a match made in heaven, eh?!? lol

Krispy

ginnyrose wrote:
As I read through this thread, one becomes quickly aware how this issue can soon become very emotional - people get all tied up in knots if anyone would challenge their perceptions of reality.

I am not one into global warming, but do occassionly read articles concerning this matter. Some say it is based on junk science others contend for it saying it is a matter of concern for intelligent people.

This entire concpt of preserving the environment is so riddled with error, one has to be very well educated to even begin to know what the truth is and even then I wonder whether any can know the truth in its entirety. One poster suggested we sit down with the prophets of baal to discuss this matter...perhaps here is the clue that fuels the controversary. Baal by its nature and function operates as a arm of the devil. Now the devil is a liar. In order for a lie to be believed there must be a substantial amount of truth included to make it acceptable. If people were to see the truth in its raw form, it will not generate a lot of interest, as a rule for different reasons: some may be because there is no money to be made on it. It would be interesting to know how many of these philosophies are supported by academicians fighting to justify their grants awarded to them by organizations bent on destroying democracy, like the Communist party.

Since this issue is one contaminated by junk science, I will do what I can be be reasonably clean, not litter, discard my own trash, burn what I wish - when a ban on burn is not in effect...

...Now I better go clean up my kitchen!

ginnyrose

I especially like:

In order for a lie to be believed there must be a substantial amount of truth included to make it acceptable.

Trying to examine the issue Biblically, with an eye to science as well, there are various factors involved in this "environment" business (including global warming). For example:

1. [u]The earth won't last for ever, WHATEVER WE DO OR DON'T DO[/u]. Even if we instantly stopped all pollution, things are still running down. The whole universe (not only the earth) is getting more disorganised, unless there is input from outside itself (i.e. the direct intervention of the Lord). This tendency to disorder is called entropy (I've got rather a lot of it - by nature and because of spending too much time talking with you all!!)

2. [u]The earth, in its present form, won't last for ever because [b]GOD[/b] says so![/u] Again, nothing we can say or do will alter that. The earth was cursed because of Adam’s sin, so even if it was originally designed to last for ever, it won’t now.

...Maybe He will do it by means of the Sun - a nova explosion (I understand it takes a much more massive star than ours to make a supernova)? The Biblical description sounds like some sort of colossal fireball anyhow. It seems more likely from Scripture, that the whole of the present [i]universe[/i], not only the earth, will be burned up, but that's probably open to different interpretations.

3. [u]The genetic factor[/u] This is part of the "entropy business". Instead of evolving into more and more complex forms, the evidence is that life is becoming less complex, losing genetic variability. – This happens so much that many organisms probably become extinct, not because of man's activity, but because they have run out of the genetic ability to adapt easily to the slightest change.

Man can also do this artificially, eg in laboratory mice. They are sometimes bred (not sure about the ethics of this, but useful in medical research) to have certain characteristics, often illnesses, (such as diabetes, epilepsy or tendency to certain kinds of tumours). The mice in a particular genetic line are basically clones - the variation is so little that they are genetically almost identical through many generations. If all mice disappeared except one pair of one of these lines, mice would become extinct very quickly! It was only because God created all kinds of life with huge genetic variability that this didn’t happen as a result of the Flood, where all land animals (and probably many plants) were curt down to only two of each kind (except for "clean" ones). Genes that were absent from these pairs vanished for ever.

This is gradually happening to mankind too. Which is probably why God must have allowed Adam and Eve's children and grandchildren to intermarry freely with each other. (This answers the sceptic’s favourite question "Where did Cain get his wife?"). But by Moses' time there had to be a law given against incest, because inbreeding had become a real danger to the health of the population.

Blessings

Jeannette

I'm still waiting on evidence that Jesus and the Apostles taught "creation care" was part of the Body of Christ's mission & duty.

...so far... I hear crickets...

All I've gotten are reasons why this wont be discussed with me, which is convenient.

Maybe if someone else asks nicely :-) the evidence will be forthcoming. (Altho, there is no evidence, so dont nobody hold your breath!)

Krispy

KrispyKrittr wrote:
I'm still waiting on evidence that Jesus and the Apostles taught "creation care" was part of the Body of Christ's mission & duty.

...so far... I hear crickets...

All I've gotten are reasons why this wont be discussed with me, which is convenient.

Maybe if someone else asks nicely :-) the evidence will be forthcoming. (Altho, there is no evidence, so dont nobody hold your breath!)

Krispy

Such as looking after renewable resources: only taking the eggs out of a bird's nest and letting the mother bird go free; and not spoiling the fruit trees when you conquer the land. And letting land lie fallow every 7 years (the "Sabbath" of the soil)

There were also laws on looking after poor people, servants and even donkeys!

Jeannette

Little Gift... I am a conservationalist. I love nature, and I adhor garbage on the road, smog, etc. I'm an avid hunter... I know and love wild animals more than most folks. And I believe we should take care of what God has given us.

However, it has been said on this thread that "creation care" is one of the duties of the Body of Christ... yet this is not taught in the NT. Nothing even close to environmental concerns occurr in the NT.

If anything... Paul makes it clear that this world is not our home.

We shouldnt trash it! Yet, the Body of Christ has another priority... and it isnt environmentalism. I dont believe churches should be out trying to fix the environment. Church today hardly fulfill the Great Commission. God would not be pleased if they all of a sudden became concerned about global warming before they became concerned with seeing souls saved.

All this global warming, environmental stuff that is creeping into the church is coming straight from you know who... [b]Rick Warren[/b].

This has been a major thrust of his for the last year or so. A social gospel... protect the environment, save endangered species... all good causes, but designed to distract the church.

...brought to you by Satan thru Rick Warren.

Krispy

LittleGift wrote:

The only things I can think of are Old Testament laws. Will they do?

Such as looking after renewable resources: only taking the eggs out of a bird's nest and letting the mother bird go free; and not spoiling the fruit trees when you conquer the land. And letting land lie fallow every 7 years (the "Sabbath" of the soil)

There were also laws on looking after poor people, servants and even donkeys!

Jeannette

I read some of this, but can't read all now, my eyes are as dry as cottonballs.

Anyhow, has anyone brought up the Scientists who say the "sun is getting hotter" ?

Just wondering, cuz that's what I heard on the radio from some Report and that fits Biblically.

Good posts ginnyrose and I agree LittleGift that we're to care for anything that HE created.
Animals, trees, flowers.

"KEEP CREATION AS HE WOULD" , to the best of 'our' abilities.

Hey, Krispy, you were just a dito head too long. Ha.

Mr. You-know-who hates "tree-huggers".

But that's throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Everything that HE created and said was "good" and actually all that was and is a Gift to us, should be cared for.

He made it pretty for us. I thank Him for that by making things pretty in my yard for Him and taking care of any animals that come to my yard hungry or hurt.

And I like 'most' bugs that HE made too.

I think it was Newsweek some years ago that blamed the Christians for their "take dominion" theory that has destroyed the earth. No joke.

I don't want to be in that company neither.

Hot sun 8-)

Krispy, I was typing while you were posting.

I'm sorry, I didn't know this was about [b]"him"[/b].

Well, Mr. Rick can face the KING of kings when HE comes back and account for all he's been up to.

DOMINIONISTS will find out then about 2Peter3.

Agree with you there brother. That's why they will drag us before "whomever" and kill us ... even if we are pro-creation.

... even if we are pro-creation.

My wife and I are very pro-creation. Which explains why I am constantly tripping over toys at our house!

Rick Warren is very much the "point man" of this "dominion - environmentalism" movement that is beginning to crop up in the church. Google "rick warren environment" and see what comes up.

Mr. Warren (I refuse to recognize him as a Biblical pastor) is more influencial on the evangelical church than many of us realize. And I believe he will be extremely influential during the next election cycle. While Warren is personally pro-life, he has been courting political figures that are extremely liberal and very pro-choice... such as Obama and Chelsea's mama. Also, he is now buds with Bono from U2.

So it's easy to see which way Warren's politics are falling. This isnt a democrat/republican thing. When you say you are pro-life, but cozy up with politicians who are pro-killing-children... thats saying something. You dont see Warren shaking hands with conservative pro-life politicians.

....and all the while, the evangelical (so-called) church just swoons at every word that proceeds out of Warren's mouth.

So, instead of the church being concerned about abortion and other moral issues (gay "rights", etc)... Mr. Warren will see to it that the church is more concerned about the environment and global warming.

Anyone think I'm wrong about this? You watch and see what happens next year. Ray Charles could see this one coming.

Krispy

All this global warming, environmental stuff that is creeping into the church is coming straight from you know who... Rick Warren.

Also from people like Bono and Rob Bell...

In Christ -Jim

Of course we are free to be green if we so desire. But if our motive is thinking that we are helping God bring in a better Kingdom, God forbid. Or if our motive is to think that we are righteous by being green, that too is against the cross of Christ. The kingdom of God is in man, it ain't here on the physical earth.

But generally speaking, we can do whatever we like in regards to the environment. If we want to join a group of people in cleaning up garbage, go at it and have fun. Just don't mark it up as brownie points that your special before God for doing it.

We recycle not because of the environment, we do it because we are only allowed a certain amount of regular garbage to be sent to the landfill every 2 weeks. Mother likes taking the compost to turn into fertilizer. I don't like throwing wrappers or pop cans on the ground, it's against the law and I like to stay in good with the law. Same with seat belts, It's the norm and it's the law. But doing it has nothing to do with the cross.

If someone is teaching that it's a requirement from God to keep the environment clean, he's smoking something.

I think we need to keep the Gospel clean and not allow the channel to be clogged up with man's garbage.

But generally speaking, we can do whatever we like in regards to the environment. If we want to join a group of people in cleaning up garbage, go at it and have fun.

Absolutely! I agree with you.

If someone is teaching that it's a requirement from God to keep the environment clean, he's smoking something.

Which, at that point, it would actually be more brownish than green due to the drying process... ooops, wait, I dont know anything about that stuff! ...nevermind.

I think we need to keep the Gospel clean and not allow the channel to be clogged up with man's garbage.

Right on, bro... good stuff right there.

Krispy

Krispy said

However, it has been said on this thread that "creation care" is one of the duties of the Body of Christ... yet this is not taught in the NT. Nothing even close to environmental concerns occurr in the NT.

Maybe not. But I'm sure the early church fathers were familiar with the ancient universal proverb "Don't crap where you eat".

They also had the Old Testament to back them up:

"Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us." (ISA 14:8)

"The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left." (ISA 24:5-6)

"And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." (REV 11:18)

"Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land. By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood. Therefore shall the land mourn, and every one that dwelleth therein shall languish, with the beasts of the field, and with the fowls of heaven; yea, the fishes of the sea also shall be taken away." (HOS 4:2-3)

"How long shall the land mourn, and the herbs of every field wither, for the wickedness of them that dwell therein? the beasts are consumed, and the birds; because they said, He shall not see our last end... Many pastors have destroyed my vineyard, they have trodden my portion under foot, they have made my pleasant portion a desolate wilderness. They have made it desolate, and being desolate it mourneth unto me; the whole land is made desolate, because no man layeth [it] to heart... They have sown wheat, but shall reap thorns: they have put themselves to pain, [but] shall not profit: and they shall be ashamed of your revenues because of the fierce anger of the LORD." (JER 12:4-13)

If anything... Paul makes it clear that this world is not our home.

We shouldnt trash it! Yet, the Body of Christ has another priority... and it isnt environmentalism. I dont believe churches should be out trying to fix the environment. Church today hardly fulfill the Great Commission. God would not be pleased if they all of a sudden became concerned about global warming before they became concerned with seeing souls saved.

First, the Earth is home to various creatures and persons; even if we are only pigrims here, we Christians ought to leave it better than we found it.

Second, unless hundreds of thousands of scientists around the world are all on drugs, flat out lying, or pulling off the biggest hoax in history, carbon dioxide emmissions due to human activity are resulting in global warming.

Third, you said "God would not be pleased if they all of a sudden became concerned about global warming before they became concerned with seeing souls saved." And if the Earth can no longer sustain human life because of human activity? How many souls will be saved then?

I'm still waiting on evidence that Jesus and the Apostles taught "creation care" was part of the Body of Christ's mission & duty.

so far... I hear crickets...

All I've gotten are reasons why this wont be discussed with me, which is convenient.

It's not out of convenience that I don't respond to you, it's out of mercy that I don't. As I said to your friend "Compliments" in another thread, who's itching to "debate", it wouldn't be fair, you'd be way out of your league.

You have a spirit of contention, I'm not going to play into. If you can't understand the Importance of the Lord telling a questioning Pharisee the Two Greatest Commandments, and how this Pronouncement of Jesus' illustrates the [i][b]shalom[/b][/i] nature of the Kingdom of God at hand, the Hebrew shalom referencing a "wholeness", that exemplifies EVERYTHING about the Good News, the Gospel Jesus preached and is preaching to this very day, and how that relates IN ITS TOTALITY to the WHOLE witness of Jesus, vis-a-vis, "creation care", love for one's neighbor, being peacemakers, being ardent Lovers of God, being martyred, dying to one's self, servanthood, etc etc ......if you cant understand how interconnected EVERYTHING we do as FOLLOWERS of Jesus is, then my mere words can't pound it into that hard conk coconut you got sitting atop your shoulders.....

I'm sorry, my brother, that's a flaw of mine, me and the Lord are working on, I don't suffer fools gladly. Hence, I don't want to have a discussion with you, you like debate, and I have this flaw, and the two don't make for a good witness, so let's just let it go. There's plenty of others you can play with, Go with God, may He bless you.

And if the Earth can no longer sustain human life because of human activity? How many souls will be saved then?

Wow - I'm suprised to read this from you bro, this is theologically unsound reasoning. I am sure that man has not suprised God with our reckless use of the earth though...

Let us continue to pray and preach the Gospel that we are commanded to while maintaining a personal responsible attitude towards the environment.

First, the Earth is home to various creatures and persons; even if we are only pigrims here, we Christians ought to leave it better than we found it.

The earth is under a curse, the curse of God to be exact. It is cursed along with our flesh and it will be consumed with fire. To truly leave it 'better' then we found it would be a challenging and all consuming task if you really think about it... and then its going to burn anyway.

I agree with you that we should be sensitive not to 'poop where we eat', but beyond that time spent pursuing earthly matters would be much wiser spent pursuing heavenly matters.

Just my $.02

In Christ - Jim

thank you Joe for your warm and loving response.

Lord bless you..

ps. Chesty Puller WAS a great USMC leader, he got our boys out of a deathtrap and "advancing in a different direction" (lol) and Ted Williams, a model Marine, gave up the best years of his baseball life to serve the Corps as an aviator, when he didnt have to.