Depression

Can anyone tell me of some messages on depression?

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=4510&commentView=itemComments]Keys to Mental Health by David Wilkerson[/url]

I haven't listened to the message and I intend to do so. However, I am going to be the proverbial thorn in the side. What type of depression is it? Continious?

On a similiar note, I have been diagnosed with ocd. It comes and goes but has been very bad lately. One of my pastors told me to hand it to God and say that I give it to him and I have faith and I will be healed. His understanding to the situation I suffer was obviously lacking. Another one of my pastors is sympathetic. However, my point is that I have asked God to take it countless times but it hasn't gone as easy as 1 2 3. I believe God may be going to use me to help someone else. I have an imbalance of seretonin in my brain that causes a lot of this.

My example above isn't related directly, however... I am trying to encourage you to talk to God. He understands. The title of the download, "keys to mental health", makes me a bit dubious as if some people might think it is something you can just turn off. You may be his tool in this area one day. I used to, and sometimes still get depressed (just not often as focus is on more eternal things now, the severity isn't crippling like it used to be...). I am only 21 and I have had experience with this stuff, it runs through my family.

God Bless
Brother in Christ
Michael

What is OCD? How does it affect you? I am a little ignorant of this disorder.

I highly and heartily reccommend this message. It has blessed me much lately.

[url=http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=11505204937]The Prophet of Prayer Praying for Death[/url]

I have dealt with depression and anxiety over the years. I would recommend Martin Lloyd Jone's "Spiritual Depression- It's Causes and Cures", John Piper's "When You Don't Desire God" and "When The Darkness Will Not Lift". These are books, not sermons, sorry.

Also would recommned [url=www.seegod.org/]Single Vision Ministries[/url] which i have refered to quite often in the past. (this lovely gentleman Gene Veal, went to be with the Lord so you cannot talk with him but can still order his materials)

Certain people are more proned to depression, but alot of it comes from the way we think and what we think about. Change your thinking, change your attitude and it can help tremendously. Drenching ourselves in the truth of God's word and refusing to believe the lies we are usually telling ourselves.

But still there is no fool proof answer. Many of the greatest of saints experienced depression- Spurgeon, William Cowper, David... We don't always know why. But God is able to provide what we need.

My prayers are with you.

Vsuarez: Ocd is obsessive compulsiveness. In my situation I have experienced anti-God thoughts, unwanted sexual thoughts (which disturb me because I try to live fully for him) and phobia of things not being clean, ie: germs. If I perceive it as being infected with germs - I need to clean it to move on. I obsess on infection and the cleaning is the compulsion.

I am on meds to help balance my seretonin levels and it helps. A lot of secular psychiatry is garbage. Freud for example. I see a psychiatrist because he helps me in regards to my meds to control anxiety and ocd, but some of my drift of my previous post was, sometimes during bad times pray and seek God. He may not take it away but he is there even if it doesn't feel like it at times. I was also trying to demonstrate that some mental illnesses such as mine can be a biological condition.

Michael

Hello, I am not an expert in this field. I suffer from melancholic moods from time to time and CFS. I am able to hold a full time job and feed a family with wife and 4 kids. For me depression is an agent that drives me into the arms of God. When these moods overcome me, it usually shows me that I am still attached to some things in the world. A man who is dead to the world cannot be sad and cannot be offended. Depression is a spiritual wilderness. You have left the Egypt of your old sinful life and you are on your way to the heavenly kingdom. You sometimes look back and whish you were in Egypt but you know that you cannot go back but have to move on. True joy comes from fellowship with the Lord - a joy that cannot be taken away and the world cannot offer.

When depression befalls me I cry out: "Lord, be my only joy! Shown your servant his error and restore the joy of salvation unto me. Hey you stubborn soul, come praise Him, rise on the wings of praise, may His spirit envelop me and show me the mysteries of the Godhead. Remove from me worldly sorrow that leads to death. Give me godly sorrow with leads me to repentance and health of my soul. Weeping lasts through the night but joy comes in the morning.

I believe many a psalmist battled depression. Feed on the Psalms, they have encouraged countless generations of saints. Where else can you expect remedy but through intense prayer and wrestling in the spirit? Jesus carried all the depression of this world from Getsemane to calvary. The weight of it pressed him on the ground and he sweated blood. He was forsaken and disowned by his own father and abandoned by his companions. He did it - for the joy that was ahead and the kingdom and the people that would be forever His!

Hope this helps
narrowpath

Your comments are an encouragement to me, narrowpath. Lord bless you.

Michael, I want to tell you my view on OCD. Receive it or reject it. One of demons main influences upon a person can be to create compulsive behaviors in our lives. Jesus said the devil comes to kill, steal, and destroy. Demons hate us because we are Gods' creation and can influence us to make us have compulsive behavior so that we will be in torment and will not have the communion with God in the Spirit that He wants us to have. Also demons can have a legal right to be in our lives if we allow them to have one; perhaps a spirit of depression or other spirits may have had a legal right in your life because your ancestors gave grounds to them and therefore they may have been influencing your family line for a number of yrs. perhaps centuries. You may have to break specific curses that are upon you and your family line to break the legal grounds satan may have upon you. Take it to God in prayer if you want to message me personally I could be able to lead you to some stuff that might give you some better understanding concerning matters I put in this reply. What I feel is that just saying God take this from me or help me may not be enough; not that God is unable to do that but He has given you power and authority over all the enemy if you are in Him. You may have to get spiritual discernment as to what types of spirits may be causing these compulsive behaviours whether they be from fears or anxieties or other things. Anyways I hope you can hear God concerning these matters that you may be free in Jesus name.

Dian,

I think reading the Psalms, particularly in your prayer closet is a good place to start. I do that at times and it's in those very barren places in desert where Jesus meets us. I don't have any sermons but would recommend a book by David Wilkerson entitled "Have you felt like giving up lately?" You can find a very cheap one on Amazon.com or some other website.

I have often felt depressed and there's a whole host of reasons but since I'm walking with Jesus now it's mainly because I can no longer have my way and follow Jesus at the same time. The victim mentality is sometimes a "get out of obedience" card with the Holy Spirit. I can't get away with that anymore but it's been a very long tug of war in my own heart over this.

It seems the hidden ways of mine that the Holy Spirit continues to expose will never cease. That I believe is a lie but it is joyously painful to follow Jesus. If Jesus learned obedience through suffering, we have to learn the same way.

Remember the devil simply wants you to quit and give up. That's his modus operandi and once this is done, he's got you. Don't give up Dian, Jesus is our deliverer. Isn't it refreshing to know that we can't deliver ourselves?

One of my favorite Psalms when I'm feeling down is Psalms 84. Here's a few verses (5-7) to wet your appetite: Blessed are those whose strength is in you, who have set their hearts on pilgrimage. As they pass through the Valley of Baca, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools. They go from strength to strength, till each appears before God in Zion.

Blessings to you sis, I pray the Lord will deliver you from these attacks of the enemy.

Thanks to all of you for your input here. I've many things I would like to say, but you would probably grow weary with such a long post. I [i]did[/i] go listen to the recommended sermon by Roaringlamb, The Prophet of Prayer Praying For Death. It was so powerful in reaching down to my pain that I had to stop halfway through it and let my tears subside (I was trying to work). It brought up some things in me which revealed some areas that I need to allow God to heal and deliver me in. Thanks Roaring. I needed that.

I have been someone who has taken the world's road in trying to deal with my depression at times, but, for the most part, I knew it was all just a compromise. I never took any anti-depressants for more than a few weeks and then I would cast them aside. I believe the Lord is taking me to the root of my struggle and I'm on the verge of a real breakthrough like I've never had before.

Some time ago, I posted a blog on myspace and a song which ministers to me lots. The blog is entitled "Hurricane" and that's the song title, as well. For anyone who wants to read and listen, here is the link. www.myspace.com/ancientpaths . You have to click on "view all blog entries", then you have to click on the Archives button saying "older". Scroll down and look for the one called, "Hurricane".

Basically, all of my blogs reveal my heart. I know I'm going to be free from this depression soon. I love you guys. Thanks for being here for the past 3 years. I don't know what I'd do without you. God is leading me to the truth and much of his leading has taken place through this website. I'm grateful for that. Love, Dian.

Jarona. I do reject your view, purely on the basis is, I am aware that Satan can play on your struggles and weaknesses. I have been scared to touch my bible lately in case of infecting it, but the way I have combatted that is at times listening to an audio bible in the car and praying about that. I know it isn't the same as reading it, but at least I am trying to combat it and keep the word of God active in my life.

There is no curse on my family line. There is such thing as medical conditions, which this stems off. Things go wrong sometimes genetically within people, doesn't mean they have a curse on their family. When someone has asthma, does that mean they have a demon causing a hold on your life.

Satan has no legal grounds over me, because I belong to Jesus Christ and the Lord God Almighty. God is helping me, it is just taking time.

I am aware of demonic forces existing, however, I am not worried like some Christians that they are behind every bush. There are genetic problems that can cause problems within the brain, it doesn't always mean that a demon has a hold on them. How can a demon be holding on to something when I am constantly bringing the problem before Christ.

Michael

From my own journals during a dark time:

[u]If I have nothing else, I have Jesus and what He did for me on the cross[/u]:

"From all eternity, the Father and the Son were one. He was fully divine. He was God. He and His Father were one. How is it then that He who was one with God might be forsaken by Him?

Drink deeply of this precious remedy, and let it speak honeyed volumes of assurance and confidence into your tormented soul: [b]He cried out so that you wouldn't have to! He was forsaken so that you wouldn't be![b]

For you and me, the Lord 'tasted the bitterest drop in the accursed cup.... being forsaken of God." [u]Although you may truly feel miserable and afflicted, you've never felt this. You've never been forsaken by God. You've never enjoyed the fellowship Jesus had with His Father, a fellowship so sweet that the loss of it would rend your heart.[/u]

In our trials, it's important for us to remember that everything we have was purchased for us by a merciful and loving savior. He was forsaken so that we would not be. He was punished so that we could be set free. The assurance that we have in the midst of our storm is that God's ear is always open to our cry and that He's not punishing us for our sins but rather has poured out every drop of His just wrath on His innocent Son.

Yes, we are suffering, but our suffering is not judgement for our sin; will not be eternal, and is something we don't walk through alone.

It is true that there are times when we reap the consequences of our sin, but even in this reaping, we're not being punished by God. He disciplines us, but His discipline is always redemptive and remedial, never punative. He does correct us for our own good and out of love, but if we're in His Son, we''ll never know His eternal judgement and displeasure." -A Steadfast Heart

"You need not fear or anxiously look around for help: He is your God. The one who endured the worst of it for you will strengthen, help and uphold you!" (Isa 41:10)

"Even though you feel afflicted, needy, and dry, I, the one who called out, "I thirst" for your sake will come to you myself; I will water and comfort you; you won't be forsaken! (Isa 41:17)

In His love, Chanin

More from my own journals:

"Talk to yourself. Tell yourself the Truth. Tell yourself what you know to be true. God is sovereign. God is wise. He doesn't make mistakes. God loves me. He's not going to bring anything into my life except that which would be for my ultimate good. Keep counseling your heart according to the Word of God. Tell your heart, “Hope in God.”

Martyn Lloyd-Jones, in commenting on this passage (a great Bible teacher of past generation) says,“We must talk to ourselves instead of allowing ‘ourselves’ to talk to us! . . . You must say to your soul, ‘Why art thou cast down’—what business have you to be disquieted? You must . . . exhort yourself, and say to yourself: ‘Hope thou in God’—instead of muttering in this depressed, unhappy way. And then you must go on to remind yourself of God, Who God is, and what God is, and what God has done, and what God has pledged Himself to do.

Then he says, “[b]Then having done that, end on this great note: defy yourself, and defy other people, and defy the devil and the whole world, and say with this man: ‘I shall yet praise Him for the help of His countenance, who is also the health of my countenance and my God[/b].’”

In Him, Chanin

There's one really nice thing about depression. It gives you a point of relativity when joy comes. It's like standing in a deep valley and then climbing to the top of a really high mountain and looking down. The valley looks so beautiful then. It usually has a river curving right through the middle of it with lots of greenery and a lovely mist hanging over the water.

This analagy always makes me think of a girl named Much Afraid in the book by Hannah Hurnard called, [u]Hinds Feet On High Places[/u] . She wanted to go with the Good Shepherd to the High Places, but on the way, she noticed that the water was always casting itself down the mountain into the valley so joyously. Then, the Good Shepherd explained to her that the joy comes from helping those in the valley.

I once had a doctor who was asking me many questions while looking down at his notebook. He was asking, "Do you cry alot? Do you experience insomnia?...I wasn't answering him. I was just waiting to see when he would look up from his notebook. Finally he looked at me and I said, "Well, I haven't slept since I was 14 and I cry every day." He said, "Well, we can give you something to help with that if you want me to." I said, "I like crying." He said, "Well that's not normal." I said, "Well, it may not be normal, but it's normal for me." Love, Dian

I go through depression and I know it makes you have alot of patience for people who are going through different things in this productive society where everything is run on greed, pride

Eze 16:49 - Show Context
Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

Weakness is considered a foolish thing by the world

2Co 13:4 - Show Context
For though he was crucified through weakness, yet he liveth by the power of God. For we also are weak in him, but we shall live with him by the power of God toward you.

1Co 1:27 - Show Context
But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;

1Co 4:10 - Show Context
We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised

if there was one thing that I hate in me is my depressive times. You feel like nothing.
Sometimes it has given me time to be useful like learn scripture.
Fighting with your own soul or your own mind.

I do remember reading that depression is a missionaries worst nightmare.

I do not understand and have not conquered this but I wish to say one day that jesus did conquer it in me.

There's one really nice thing about depression. It gives you a point of relativity when joy comes. It's like standing in a deep valley and then climbing to the top of a really high mountain and looking down. The valley looks so beautiful then. It usually has a river curving right through the middle of it with lots of greenery and a lovely mist hanging over the water.

The LORD [is] my shepherd; I shall not want. He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters. He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou [art] with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me. Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over. Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

two resources:
message by Gil Rugh (Indian Hills Community Church) called "Psychology: The Trojan Horse"
also a dvd by Roger Oakland called Psychology And The Church.

Both give warning about psycho therapy having replaced the pastors role in the church. The church has effectively dealt with the mind for the past 1800 years, what has happened in the last 200 years. They both suggest there is validity in scientific dealings with the physical mind when there is a malady but state that there is no validity to psychoanalysis and counseling this way. Both very good and an eye opener. As Annie's link, Psychology and the Church is centered around interviews with psychologists that debunk the myths of psychology.

one interesting said in the dvd is that the number one factor in succesful counseling is that the counselor hold the same world view as the counseled, nothuing to do with degrees and education per se

L

Lkid wrote:
Both give warning about psycho therapy having replaced the pastors role in the church. The church has effectively dealt with the mind for the past 1800 years, what has happened in the last 200 years.
...
As Annie's link, Psychology and the Church is centered around interviews with psychologists that debunk the myths of psychology.

While I agree with this statement, at the same time, I don't. Fact is, very few "pastors" are Shepherds, these days. In making this statement, I am reminded of when Jesus spoke of the "good shepherd" who would leave the 99 to look for the 1 lost sheep, when many pastors mourn the loss of the 1, because they have their hands full with the 99. There are very few "sons", and many "hirelings".

There seems to be a growing trend of Christian counselors who are taking up that role. They daily lay down their life for those under their care, and the families associated with them. When the "pastor" finds someone too hard to love, the counsellor takes over.

Granted, there are many hirelings in the mental health profession, who lean on the kind of occultic methods, common in worldly psychology, but that is far from being a blanket statement. There are "Christian psychologists" and there are "christian Psychologists". There are some, like James Dobson, who seek to explain Psychology with a Christian terminology, and there are others, like E James Wilder, who explain Christianity using Psychological terminology, and there is a world of difference.

Note that this is not an attempt to slander clergy, in general. I realise that there are many faithful disciples of Jesus Christ within the clergy. My comments stem from observations while serving in, what I refer to as "back row ministry". That is, being with the kind of people who sit in the back row of churches. The kinds who are going through serious life and death issues, but keep it to themselves, because all they get is an "answer" to their problems, which simply adds to their burden, or ostricisation from people who accuse them of not having enough "faith".

There seem to be two extremes, hireling pastors who portray through their preaching, and lifestyle, whether or nor through direct statements, the view that Christians are to be weighed by their activity, and hireling counselors who would have people shift the blame onto themselves as a means of experiencing emotional healing. The balance would be people who are prepared to "bear one another's burdens", helping them to recognise wrong that has been commited against them, so that they can forgive them, while recognising that for this to happen in a practical sense, it takes time.

A good counsellor will walk a person through their trauma, and pain, while modelling before them the weigh to properly handle their pain. Note, that this is realy the role of the church, and if the church was fulfilling its function correctly, rather than focusing on just "getting the job done" (which usually means filling up their members time with pointless activities), then there would be no need to counselors.

Fact is, depression is a very real thing, which is caused and fed by the inability to manage shame. We're expected to be able to do something (whether by our own, or someone else's expectations) which is beyond our ability. No matter how hard we try, we fail everytime, and yet we continue to try. Eventually we simply give up, not out of the recognition that Christ must take over, but out of the belief that it can't be done.

Now this might not be so bad when it come to trivial little tasks, but when it comes to being a good mother, father, child, student, employee, and even a good Christian, this will affect our perception of who we are. Unless we have come to a practical realisation of Gal 2:20 "..not I, but Christ..", we consider it to be a failure in our responsibilities, and this despair can lead to self destructive behaviour, and even suicide.

The church, by and large, is ill equipped to handle such people. Again, this is not a blanket statement, but is simply an explanation as to the role that a Christian Psychologist has in the church. Personally, I prefer to call them "elders", as any Psychologist deserving of the title will certainly fit the qualifications of eldership.

More more information, try [url=http://www.lifemodel.org/]www.lifemodel.org[/url].

is self hate a kind of depression?

MSeaman wrote:
is self hate a kind of depression?

Self hatred is not "speaking the truth in your heart" (Psalm 15:2). What is the truth? If you belong to God, you are beloved, precious, and lovely in His sight. We must align our thoughts with Scripture truth; if we do not, things like self hatred are a result.

is self hate rooted in shame?

We were discussing this in my ladies prayer group and one of the ladies shared that she finds it hard to "love your neighbor like yourself" when she feels hate towards herself sometimes. I too can relate to this feeling. It seems to be prevalent in females that I know.

Something that I have wondered for awhile is how did the saints of old cope?

It seems today people will do everything but do what the Bible says. People become so obsessed with going to counsellors, and doctors, but leave behind the advice found in Scripture.(I am not saying that there are not cases in which doctoral help is needed)

When I read verses like these, I wonder what God would think of the quickness to trust "other" counsellors-
Jer 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

Isa 2:22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of?

P.S. Hello Annie how ya doin?

GrannieAnnie wrote:
Love for GOD First and then Love of all others 2nd.

I'd slightly alter this statement to, "Demonstrate your love of God, by loving others". After all, the second greatest commandment is "like" the first.

It is interesting to note that Wilder (whose website I cited earlier) found his foundational understanding of what he calls "The Life Model" as a missionary child growing up under intense persecution. It was the very trauma experienced, faced and dealt with, which produced the loving community which he was part of, all spontaneously, without the help of psychologists and counselors. The thing is, in that environment, "liars" are separated by "buyers", as a matter of life and death. It is hard to make such a distinction where there is no persecution.

Sadly, in the West, the common "Christianity" is one that avoids suffering at all costs, and therefore receives none of the benefits attached to it. Consider Paul's words, "That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the [b]fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death[/b]" (Phil 3:10). Is it truly possible to "know him, and the power of his resurrection" separate from "the fellowship of his sufferings" and without "being made conformable unto his death"?

Wilder noted that one of the greatest failures in counseling comes from the failure to walk someone through hopeless despair. Rather than identify with the person's pain, and endure it with them, they try to help them be "positive" the moment they start to become negative. Faith is not remaining positive, it is trusting God in spite of negativity. Rather than actually leading people [b]to God[/b], with patience when things get desperately impossible, they point to God, and leave them to find their own way.

Romanian exile, Josef Tson noted that the temptations that he faced, while in Western decadence, were harder to endure than the while under the constant threat of death at the hands of Communist authorities. Brother Yun made similar observations, noting that the worst persecution he faced was in the West, within the "church", and he had the bones in both legs smashed, while in prison, among other things.

It's nice to romanticise about the early church, but it was the endured suffering that gave them the ability to endure. Even looking to Wurmbrand. Do you really think that he would have been as great a man of God, had he not endured his tortures? Listen to his testimony, and hear the first part, with the regrets faced as they were taken to jail.

While many in church avoid suffering that comes as a result of enduring the tortured soul, the counselor has not casually chosen to do this, but as a full time profession. Why is it that the heart surgeon and the oncologist receive our respect and appreciation when they are allowed the luxury of detachment, while the counselor must bear the full weight of their patients pain?

Satan is having a field day in the Western churches because we have failed to recognise the pandemic at our doorsteps. I'm one of the lucky ones, in that my family made contact with people who understood the workings of the mind and were mature enough to love us through our crises. The "church" was incapable of doing anything to help, and greatly exaggerated the problems.

People, this is real life we're talking about. I have met scores of people who are being pushed closer to the edge of suicide by a "church" that is heaping obligations upon depression sufferers, in the form of "good advice".

To quote Leonard Ravenhill, "That world outside isn't waiting for a new definition of Christianity, it's waiting for a new demonstration of Christianity."

GrannieAnnie wrote:
Life stories aside here, [b]suffering either makes us bitter or better[/b]. When I came to Christ upon hearing the Gospel, I was down to 98 lb.s from years of abuse, etc., since two months old ... but one of my first prayers to Jesus was "whatever" it takes, make me like You ... no matter how painful, no matter what the cost. What was I asking for ? [b]The complete opposite of what a Psychologist would have recommended from all that I had been through just to that point in my life[/b].
(emphais added)

Annie,

Firstly, I'd like to say that I greatly appreciate your posts here. I would hate you to think that I'm going after you for "heresy". I guess I am reading in your posts words with the subtle taint that is common in most Christians, a paranoia of all things Psychological. This taint is keeping those who are hurting from the help that is available.

Allow me to illustrate, I asked someone once what it means to "be in the world but not of it", and he replied, "Be Christlike". I went on to ask, "But what it is to 'be Christlike'?", and he replied, with a smirk, "Well that's why you've got to read the Bible." To that I said, "Okay, but what is it that you read in the Bible, about it?" It is all well and good to know that the answer is in the Bible, but we need to know [b]what the answer is, in the Bible[/b].

None of the Psychologists that I know would have recommended contrary to what you did. In fact they would have applauded. The thing is, they would have taken you by the hand, and been "God with skin on" for you, until you could "see Him" for yourself, and then continued to love you as a peer. It's similar to James rebuking those who exhort people to be blessed and well fed, without offering them material assistance. In essence, they would lead you from "bitterness" to "better-ness", which is meant to be the role of the Church.

Most Psychologists that I know hope to be able to work their way out of a job. That is the difference between the "hireling" and the "son", as I described earlier.

I'm glad that you have received the healing that you have. Sadly many need someone to hold their hands through it. I pray that we can all be those "hands" for them.