Pope: Other Christian denominations not true churches.

I wonder if this thread will another saved always saved thread? hey it might take the focus off it for a while anyway, I am doing all I can to help.:-P

Pope: Other Christian denominations not true churches

Associated Press

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy — Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released today that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.

Benedict approved a document from his old offices at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith that restates church teaching on relations with other Christians. It was the second time in a week the pope has corrected what he says are erroneous interpretations of the Second Vatican Council, the 1962-65 meetings that modernized the church.

On Saturday, Benedict revisited another key aspect of Vatican II by reviving the old Latin Mass. Traditional Catholics cheered the move, but more liberal ones called it a step back from Vatican II.

Benedict, who attended Vatican II as a young theologian, has long complained about what he considers the erroneous interpretation of the council by liberals, saying it was not a break from the past but rather a renewal of church tradition.

In the latest document — formulated as five questions and answers — the Vatican seeks to set the record straight on Vatican II's ecumenical intent, saying some contemporary theological interpretation had been "erroneous or ambiguous" and had prompted confusion and doubt.

It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."

In the new document and an accompanying commentary, which were released as the pope vacations here in Italy's Dolomite mountains, the Vatican repeated that position.

"Christ 'established here on earth' only one church," the document said. The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles.

The Rev. Sara MacVane of the Anglican Centre in Rome, said there was nothing new in the document.

"I don't know what motivated it at this time," she said. "But it's important always to point out that there's the official position and there's the huge amount of friendship and fellowship and worshipping together that goes on at all levels, certainly between Anglican and Catholics and all the other groups and Catholics."

The document said Orthodox churches were indeed "churches" because they have apostolic succession and that they enjoyed "many elements of sanctification and of truth." But it said they lack something because they do not recognize the primacy of the pope — a defect, or a "wound" that harmed them, it said.

"This is obviously not compatible with the doctrine of primacy which, according to the Catholic faith, is an 'internal constitutive principle' of the very existence of a particular church," the commentary said.

Despite the harsh tone of the document, it stresses that Benedict remains committed to ecumenical dialogue.

"However, if such dialogue is to be truly constructive, it must involve not just the mutual openness of the participants but also fidelity to the identity of the Catholic faith," the commentary said.

The document, signed by the congregation prefect, U.S. Cardinal William Levada, was approved by Benedict on June 29, the feast of Sts. Peter and Paul — a major ecumenical feast day.

There was no indication about why the pope felt it necessary to release the document, particularly since his 2000 document summed up the same principles. Some analysts suggested it could be a question of internal church politics, or that it could simply be an indication of Benedict using his office as pope to again stress key doctrinal issues from his time at the congregation

worm4Christ wrote:
just religious palaber, why doesn't somebody write him and tell him that when he rids his "church" of the battalions of hellbound homosexual predatory child molesting "priests", we MIGHT start paying mind to the paperwork emanating out of rome?

its ecclesiatical garbage at best, not worthy of consideration.

AMEN!! on that Brother or Sister. :-)

Of course he's right. I mean, billions and billions of people will go to hell because they don't believe in a religion headed by a man in a white robe, who is elected by men in black and red robes, who live in a magnificently wealthy city-state which draws revenue from all over the world, while most of their parishioners live below the poverty line in third world countries. Makes perfect sense.

the roman chatolic church is satans front on earth.....

John MacArthur

Unfortunately, most of what passes as Evangelical Theology stems from Roman Catholic ideology. All one need do is read The Council of Trent, and you will see many of the issues that were done away with in the Reformation coming in full force through supposedly Protestant churches.

Perhaps if men like Finney would have read the Councils of Trent, maybe he would have seen that he was more in line with Rome, than with the Evangelical Church of the day. But sadly, he pressed his beliefs upon many, and even popularized them, and here we are today.

Of course there are many more that are worse, but when one leaves the doctrine of justification by faith alone, by grace alone, you open the door to justification by man's work.

I have strayed, but it is time for the Protestant church to realize why we are in the mess we are in, and to seek by the grace of God how to live in such a way we may glorify Him in the days we live.

For me I will ONLY worship the True, LIVING God ...I will not be deceived by a mere "man" who teaches HIS followers the following:

To lift up Mary..as more than a courageous woman.

To ignore scripture, written by the Holy Spirit and replace it with Catholic Doctrine which is written my mere men.

To consider himself, "Dominus Jesus" .....(I do not remember the Pope dying on the cross!!!! )

I will not worship any man, nor bow down and KISS the ring of any man!

No man deserves that Honor.......! except for the KING OF KINGS, LORD of LORDS,....my Savior, Jesus Christ.

Pope...I think someone failed to tell you that you are a sinner....oops.

"I don't know what motivated it at this time," she said. "But it's important always to point out that there's the official position and there's the huge amount of friendship and fellowship and worshipping together that goes on at all levels, certainly between Anglican and Catholics and all the other groups and Catholics."

This really is confusing, you have official RCC documents from Trent and Vatican II affirming one thing and the liberal ecumenical trend that is affirming something else, it's hard to tell just where a Catholic stands these days.

In Christ,

Ron

This reminds me of an Ian Paisley message
[url=http://www.hallelujahharris.com/]The Black Pope & His Murder Men; By Ian Paisley[/url]

Now about the priest craft of the roman church, sister I get positively medieval, when I think about predatory homosexual child molesting roman catholic priests still running amuck. all those poor kids.......Christ testifies as to what awaits those who stumble the little ones.

Is there any difference with the Protestant denominations that allow the same in their midst?

In Christ
Jeff

Brother wrote:

but it seems there is an institutionalized component behind these monsters.

Not only an individual but entire denominations have entered into this type of apostacy. The United Methodist, the Presbytarian church, the American Episcopal Church and parts of the Luthren denominations are just a few of the institutionalized components behind the monsters.

In Christ
Jeff

Hi worm4Christ...

I'm not going to open up that can of worms, BUT, I got a very strong sense, a follower of Jesus is going to be very very surprised at whom one sees in Heaven and whom one doesn't see.

Fear God, love Mercy and Justice, stay humble, follow Jesus. Thats my marching orders.

There are some aspects of Roman Catholic doctrine that are completely obvious (to true believers) in the sense of their detraction from Biblical truth. Prayers to saints, the infallibility of the Pope, "chanted" prayers, "holy water," required acts of "penance," purgatory, and even the historical claims of the "Church" -- they demonstrate the obvious doctrinal flaws and outright lies that have been perpetrated over the years. I understand that there will be individuals that attend Roman Catholic churches who truly have created a relationship with Jesus. Over time, these individuals will themselves recognize the flaws in the doctrines of the Church. True believers, I feel, will "come out" of the RCC as their hunger for truth increases.

Ironically, a valid historical analysis of Christianity will reveal some rather shocking details into how much "Roman Catholicism" is still present in "evangelical" churches. Even the "program schedule" of our "services" is quite reflective of the nature of the Roman Catholic Church (taken from Roman/Greek mythological temple service) rather than the simplistic "breaking of bread" in the early Church. I've often wondered what early believers would think of our modern corporate "houses" of worship and our modern "service schedules." Would the early apostles run through our "services" shouting "Ichabod"?!? Maybe not. Perhaps they would gently instruct us about the "errors" of our modern ways.

I agree with others that, in a sense, the pope was correct. While he is also incorrect about the justification of his own institution, I would argue that all other churches (including the RCC) are not the true Church. The membership of the true Church is not found on a roll on Earth. Rather, our "membership" is found in the Book of Life. Membership is not simply open for those who pass a denominational or sectarian test or for those who receive an official baptism certificate. Rather, the membership is open to all who call upon the Lord in truth.

:-)

ok...normally I am just an observer here, but this time I could not resist.
Having been raised a Roman Catholic and now being a Protastant I think I have a pretty balanced view of the issue. Every church as its pluses and minuses. None of us have all the truth. The RCC has much to offer and we need to get beyond our own prejudices. Sometimes I think they have more right than our "modern American" churches. This battle about who is the "true church" is ridiulious. Name calling never got anyone anywhere and only puts people on the deffensive. If you want to win someone to your side, try focusing on the things you have in common first. My journey to salvation began when I began to seek Jesus himself as a catholic....its amazing how the Holy Spirit can change your mind about many things. I choose to leave the church, but I still have a found affection for it because it has taught me many things that I still find relevant to my walk today.

The RCC has [b]much[/b] to offer

I would be curious to know what this "much" may be. What can the RCC possibly offer a genuine child of God? I, too, was brought up Roman Catholic and still know many people caught up in this religious system. I have Roman Catholic friends, and I see the controlling power of the sytem continuing to blind them, deceiving them into believing they are washed clean and born-again each time they take the Eucharist.

I choose to leave the church, but I still have a found affection for it

I commend you! I also have a fondness for [i]Roman Catholics[/i], but certainly not for their church. If a person leaves the "mother church" they are considered anathema, cursed. They have committed a mortal sin. In the RCC's eyes, you are actually a heretic deserving death. God has since emasculated the RCC's power over Western civilization, and so we can say these things without fear of arrest and confiscation of our property and being burnt as heretics, but the spirit behind the RCC remains as dark as always.

I am glad that pope said this. My hope is that all of this ecumenical nonsense will come to a halt. Catholics believe one way about justification and Protestants believe another.

These two positions cannot be reconciled without one side capitulating. I for one am not willing because it would mean turning my back on the truth.

At least they are again being honest about their position concerning non-catholic churches. In the past, they interpreted Vatican II as saying we are less than perfect, but still related somehow. I didn't buy it. And I am glad that the current Pope is making the Catholic churches position crystal clear. It should help those who think they (the Catholic) consider us to be "in the church". In reality, officially, we are not saved. To be saved you must be IN the Catholic church. They have always held this position firmly and they always will.

I think now is a good time for Christians to obtain a copy of Martin Luther's book: Table Talk. We'll once again find out why we're "protest"ants. Catholicism and Protestantism are two different religions.

why doesn't somebody write him and tell him that when he rids his "church" of the battalions of hellbound homosexual predatory child molesting "priests", we MIGHT start paying mind to the paperwork emanating out of rome?

Even if the RCC had no history of pedophilia, and the priests were instead the epitome of humility, piety and philanthropy, the church of Rome would still be the false system it is. In most cases, Rome actually [i]outshines[/i] Protestantism in all the above!

So, remember, this tirade can be turned back equally on Protestantism. We've had more than our share of child-molesters, money-grubbers, authority-mongers and religious charlatans. Do we define Biblical authenticity by the moral climate of men? I propose that what the Pope says has no creedence not because of the isolated debaucherous incidents within the RCC, but because of the very [i]system[/i] he is a part of.

Brother Paul

jimdied2sin

Martin Luther reformed the church back to its post constantine apostacy and no further. Lets read the book of Acts and the words of Jesus instead!

My point of argument was not about any particular system of religion Luther may or may not have developed, but rather that of his keen insights into the nature of the Roman Catholic Church.

So are Protestantism and Christianity.

Interesting observation.

Martin Luther reformed the church back to its post constantine apostacy and no further. Lets read the book of Acts and the words of Jesus instead!

Dear brother do you have any proof of this?

If anything, we should thank God for men like Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, Bucer, Tyndale and the others who under threat of death or imprisonment, and at great cost to them personally still went about the task of getting Scripture into the common languages of the people. Were it not for these men brother you could not read the book of Acts or the words of Jesus as they would still be in Latin, and not in the "vulgar" tongue of the common people.

Rome has always sought to do away with the personal ability to interpret Scripture, and if anyone would stop defending them for long enough to read the Council of Trent, you would see the whole plan laid out before your eyes. You would also see how far we have fallen from the Protestant views which gave birth to the Reformation.

Here are five things Rome will never embrace
Sola Scriptura-Scripture alone
Sola Fide-Faith Alone
Sola Gratia-Grace Alone
Solus Christus-Christ Alone
Soli Deo Gloria-God's Glory Alone

Of course these are the Five Solas of the Reformation, which the Council of Trent sought to demolish.

Reformed Church Head Rebuts Vatican's 'One True Church' Claim

The Christian Post reports that the head of a global body of Reformed churches has challenged the Vatican’s claim that the Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. In a letter addressed to Cardinal Walter Kasper, president of the Pontifical Council of Christian Unity, the Rev. Dr. Setri Nyomi of the World Alliance of Reformed Churches wrote: "We are puzzled by the release of a statement of this kind at this time in the history of the church. An exclusive claim that identifies the Roman Catholic Church as the one church of Jesus Christ... goes against the spirit of our Christian calling toward oneness in Christ. It makes us question the seriousness with which the Roman Catholic Church takes its dialogues with the Reformed family and other families of the church. It makes us question whether we are indeed praying together for Christian unity.”

Why are we trying to yoke a donkey and an ox together. It's unlawful. Now the self-deceived can get a grip on where they really stand in the eyes of the woman sitting on seven hills.

If anything, we should thank God for men like Luther, Zwingli, Calvin, Bucer, Tyndale and the others who under threat of death or imprisonment

Quote:
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Catholicism and Protestantism are two different religions.
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So are Protestantism and Christianity.

You are so right, brother. I find one doctrine especially interesting: the doctrine of infallibility. Many protestants will come hard against this, yet many of the same Christians feel/teach that Christians must "submit" to their pastor/elder in doctrinal differences or they are in rebellion. What's the diff from how the Catholic Church teaches that it's members must submit to the teachings/words of the Pope?

On another note, I found it quite interesting when I read the news last week and found one diocese was sueing a nun for taking monies from the church. When dealing with child molesters, they have kept the "problem" in house, yet when they get ripped off monetarily, they take their problems to the secular courts. Speaks much to me about what is and what is not of value to at least that part of the Catholic church.............. :-(

[url=http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3308349518041058071&pr=goog-sl]History of the Papacy[/url]

In light of the Pope's recent comments, here is an excellent video by Richard Bennette, a former Catholic Priest.