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Dr. Ron Paul, Next Christian President?

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sermonindex

The Antiwar, Anti-Abortion, Anti-Drug-Enforcement-
Administration, Anti-Medicare Candidacy of Dr. Ron Paul

By CHRISTOPHER CALDWELL
Published: July 22, 2007

Whipping westward across Manhattan in a limousine sent by Comedy Central’s “Daily Show,” Ron Paul, the 10-term Texas congressman and long-shot Republican presidential candidate, is being briefed. Paul has only the most tenuous familiarity with Comedy Central. He has never heard of “The Daily Show.” His press secretary, Jesse Benton, is trying to explain who its host, Jon Stewart, is. “He’s an affable gentleman,” Benton says, “and he’s very smart. What I’m getting from the pre-interview is, he’s sympathetic.”

Paul nods.

“GQ wants to profile you on Thursday,” Benton continues. “I think it’s worth doing.”

“GTU?” the candidate replies.

“GQ. It’s a men’s magazine.”

“Don’t know much about that,” Paul says.

Thin to the point of gauntness, polite to the point of daintiness, Ron Paul is a 71-year-old great-grandfather, a small-town doctor, a self-educated policy intellectual and a formidable stander on constitutional principle. In normal times, Paul might be — indeed, has been — the kind of person who is summoned onto cable television around April 15 to ventilate about whether the federal income tax violates the Constitution. But Paul has in recent weeks become a sensation in magazines he doesn’t read, on Web sites he has never visited and on television shows he has never watched.

Alone among Republican candidates for the presidency, Paul has always opposed the Iraq war. He blames “a dozen or two neocons who got control of our foreign policy,” chief among them Vice President Dick Cheney and the former Bush advisers Paul Wolfowitz and Richard Perle, for the debacle. On the assumption that a bad situation could get worse if the war spreads into Iran, he has a simple plan. It is: “Just leave.” During a May debate in South Carolina, he suggested the 9/11 attacks could be attributed to United States policy. “Have you ever read about the reasons they attacked us?” he asked, referring to one of Osama bin Laden’s communiqués. “They attack us because we’ve been over there. We’ve been bombing Iraq for 10 years.” Rudolph Giuliani reacted by demanding a retraction, drawing gales of applause from the audience. But the incident helped Paul too. Overnight, he became the country’s most conspicuous antiwar Republican.

Paul’s opposition to the war in Iraq did not come out of nowhere. He was against the first gulf war, the war in Kosovo and the Iraq Liberation Act of 1998, which he called a “declaration of virtual war.” Although he voted after Sept. 11 to approve the use of force in Afghanistan and spend $40 billion in emergency appropriations, he has sounded less thrilled with those votes as time has passed. “I voted for the authority and the money,” he now says. “I thought it was misused.”

There is something homespun about Paul, reminiscent of “Mr. Smith Goes to Washington.” He communicates with his constituents through birthday cards, August barbecues and the cookbooks his wife puts together every election season, which mix photos of grandchildren, Gospel passages and neighbors’ recipes for Velveeta cheese fudge and Cherry Coke salad. He is listed in the phone book, and his constituents call him at home. But there is also something cosmopolitan and radical about him; his speeches can bring to mind the World Social Forum or the French international-affairs periodical Le Monde Diplomatique. Paul is surely the only congressman who would cite the assertion of the left-leaning Chennai-based daily The Hindu that “the world is being asked today, in reality, to side with the U.S. as it seeks to strengthen its economic hegemony.” The word “empire” crops up a lot in his speeches.

This side of Paul has made him the candidate of many people, on both the right and the left, who hope that something more consequential than a mere change of party will come out of the 2008 elections. He is particularly popular among the young and the wired. Except for Barack Obama, he is the most-viewed candidate on YouTube. He is the most “friended” Republican on MySpace.com. Paul understands that his chances of winning the presidency are infinitesimally slim. He is simultaneously planning his next Congressional race. But in Paul’s idea of politics, spreading a message has always been just as important as seizing office. “Politicians don’t amount to much,” he says, “but ideas do.” Although he is still in the low single digits in polls, he says he has raised $2.4 million in the second quarter, enough to broaden the four-state campaign he originally planned into a national one.

Paul represents a different Republican Party from the one that Iraq, deficits and corruption have soured the country on. In late June, despite a life of antitax agitation and churchgoing, he was excluded from a Republican forum sponsored by Iowa antitax and Christian groups. His school of Republicanism, which had its last serious national airing in the Goldwater campaign of 1964, stands for a certain idea of the Constitution — the idea that much of the power asserted by modern presidents has been usurped from Congress, and that much of the power asserted by Congress has been usurped from the states. Though Paul acknowledges flaws in both the Constitution (it included slavery) and the Bill of Rights (it doesn’t go far enough), he still thinks a comprehensive array of positions can be drawn from them: Against gun control. For the sovereignty of states. And against foreign-policy adventures. Paul was the Libertarian Party’s presidential candidate in 1988. But his is a less exuberant libertarianism than you find, say, in the pages of Reason magazine....

[url=http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/22/magazine/22Paul-t.html?_r=3&oref=slogin&oref=slogin&oref=slogin]Full Story Here - NY Times[/url]

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Ron Paul: The Christian Conservatives Choice for President in 2008


Why should a Christian who is conservative vote for Ron Paul in 2008?

Well here is a list of reasons why I will vote for Ron Paul as a Christian in the 08 primaries for Republican Candidate for President.

-When he says something he does it. (Thou shall not lie.)
-He has never voted to raise taxes. (Thou shall not steal.)
-He is married to his first wife for over 50 yrs. (Thou shall not commit adultery.)
-He was an OBGYN and delivered over 4,000 babies, he believes were created by our creator and we have a right to life from our creator. (Thou shall not murder.)
-He has never voted for an unbalanced budget. (Fiscally responsible)
-He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership. ( The inalienable right to protect yourself.)
-He voted against the Iraq war. ( He believes in declaring war as constitutionally stated by Congress on those who directly attack us. No pre-emptive attacks or policing of other countries.)

He is often referred to as Dr. "NO" in Congress for his refusal to vote for anything he considers unconstitutional, which is almost every bill that is proposed in Congress these days, with special interest first politicians, who will blatantly ignore the rule of law.

If you voted for or liked Ronald Reagan you will like Ron Paul. If he does win the Republican Presidential Primaries in 2008, and goes on to win the White House, how fitting it will be that it all started out at the first Republican debates at the Reagan Library in California.

Paul who is often criticized within the Republican Party establishment for running as the Presidential candidate for the Libertarian Party in 1988, should take a quote from Ronald Reagan, that would today back up his good friend Ron Paul, when he said, "If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals -- if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is."

As a Christian and a fellow American I urge you to check out Ron Paul for President of the United States in 2008.

He is the only true conservative running in the Republican Party and actually has a record to back it up. He strictly believes in the Constitution as a guide for America, and has a passion to uphold it. When he says he'll work to eliminate the IRS and unconstitutional spending he's not lying to you to get elected. He will do it.

I can't think of any candidate in my twenty plus voting years who is quite like Ron Paul. I've even heard some people refer to him as "founding father" material. For a limited government, Constitutionalist Christian like me, Ron Paul is too good to be true, but yet he is true.

[url=http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/305241/ron_paul_the_christian_conservatives.html]Original Link - Associated[/url]

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jordanamo

I think Ron Paul is the best prominent candidate out there that is running, but there's no chance he'll ever be elected in my view.

He has political integrity. Which is a rarity these days.

However, I don't think a Christian should vote for Ron Paul, nor do I think Ron Paul is a Christian (or, I don't know). Christians should do as they feel lead to. I myself will stay out of the political process.

B
Bomar

The Covenant News ~ July 21, 2007
We live in times of great uncertainty when men of faith must stand up for our values and our traditions lest they be washed away in a sea of fear and relativism. As you likely know, I am running for President of the United States , and I am asking for your support.

I have never been one who is comfortable talking about my faith in the political arena. In fact, the pandering that typically occurs in the election season I find to be distasteful. But for those who have asked, I freely confess that Jesus Christ is my personal Savior, and that I seek His guidance in all that I do. I know, as you do, that our freedoms come not from man, but from God. My record of public service reflects my reverence for the Natural Rights with which we have been endowed by a loving Creator.

I have worked tirelessly to defend and restore those rights for all Americans, born and unborn alike. The right of an innocent, unborn child to life is at the heart of the American ideal of liberty. My professional and legislative record demonstrates my strong commitment to this pro-life principle.

In 40 years of medical practice, I never once considered performing an abortion, nor did I ever find abortion necessary to save the life of a pregnant woman. In Congress, I have authored legislation that seeks to define life as beginning at conception, H.R. 1094. I am also the prime sponsor of H.R. 300, which would negate the effect of Roe v Wade by removing the ability of federal courts to interfere with state legislation to protect life. This is a practical, direct approach to ending federal court tyranny which threatens our constitutional republic and has caused the deaths of 45 million of the unborn. I have also authored H.R. 1095, which prevents federal funds to be used for so-called “population control.” Many talk about being pro-life. I have taken and will continue to advocate direct action to restore protection for the unborn.

I have also acted to protect the lives of Americans by my adherence to the doctrine of “just war.” This doctrine, as articulated by Augustine, suggested that war must only be waged as a last resort--- for a discernible moral and public good, with the right intentions, vetted through established legal authorities (a constitutionally required declaration of the Congress), and with a likely probability of success.

It has been and remains my firm belief that the current United Nations-mandated, no-win police action in Iraq fails to meet the high moral threshold required to wage just war. That is why I have offered moral and practical opposition to the invasion, occupation and social engineering police exercise now underway in Iraq . It is my belief, borne out by five years of abject failure and tens of thousands of lost lives, that the Iraq operation has been a dangerous diversion from the rightful and appropriate focus of our efforts to bring to justice to the jihadists that have attacked us and seek still to undermine our nation, our values, and our way of life.

I opposed giving the president power to wage unlimited and unchecked aggression, However, I did vote to support the use of force in Afghanistan . I also authored H.R. 3076, the September 11 Marque and Reprisal Act of 2001. A letter of marque and reprisal is a constitutional tool specifically designed to give the president the authority to respond with appropriate force to those non-state actors who wage aggression against the United States while limiting his authority to only those responsible for the atrocities of that day. Such a limited authorization is consistent with the doctrine of just war and the practical aim of keeping Americans safe while minimizing the costs in blood and treasure of waging such an operation.

On September 17, 2001, I stated on the house floor that “…striking out at six or eight or even ten different countries could well expand this war of which we wanted no part. Without defining the enemy there is no way to know our precise goal or to know when the war is over. Inadvertently more casual acceptance of civilian deaths as part of this war I'm certain will prolong the agony and increase the chances of even more American casualties. We must guard against this if at all possible.” I’m sorry to say that history has proven this to be true.

I am running for president to restore the rule of law and to stand up for our divinely inspired Constitution. I have never voted for legislation that is not specifically authorized by the Constitution. As president, I will never sign a piece of legislation, nor use the power of the executive, in a manner inconsistent with the limitations that the founders envisioned.

Many have given up on America as an exemplar for the world, as a model of freedom, self-government, and self-control. I have not. There is hope for America . I ask you to join me, and to be a part of it.

Sincerely,

Ron Paul


For More Information Contact:
Paul Dorr
Iowa Field Director
RonPaul2008@ iowatelecom. net
Phone: 712-758-3660

Ron Paul 2008
Presidential Campaign Committee
www.RonPaul2008. com
Phone: 703-248-9115
FAX: 703-248-9119

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deltadom

-He has never voted for a federal restriction on gun ownership. ( The inalienable right to protect yourself.)

I am from the Uk, we consider gunship ownership as a horror as they only have one use.

Also how does a president few the Israli- Palestine conflict. Because Israel is a major issue right now and will be until the lord comes back

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sermonindex


http://www.ronpaul2008.com/

He does seem like a interesting character but not very charismatic. But it does seem as others said that he has "integrity" and honor which is very rare these days.

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Bomar

Honestly Greg, that's the one thing that seems to be so appealing to me about Ron Paul...

Not exactly that I agree 100%, but he's not like every other candidate that floats back and forth with the wind.

He doesn't even take part in the government paid junket or pension system...because he disagrees with them in priniciple.

He may not be SI material, but he's honest, and trying to do what is best for people instead of his own political interests.

B
Bomar

Ron Paul is a non-interventionist...he does not believe in America being the world's police force...

J
jordanamo


deltadom wrote:
I am from the Uk, we consider gunship ownership as a horror as they only have one use.

America is quite the different place! You might remember how our country was born from a... rebellion against your own country, and if we hadn't had our own guns, it wouldn't of been really possible! That's pretty much why I think the Founding Fathers primarily included it in the Bill of Rights... they saw the necessity for it in their own history.

Of course though, I dislike guns and probably will never own one.

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sermonindex

Ron Paul is a non-interventionist...he does not believe in America being the world's police force...

So were the founding fathers. Non-interventionism's in the constitution.

If Ron Paul doesn't become the next U.S. President, I'd love to have him for my Prime Minister in Canada. Thrilled, actually.

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sermonindex

We may not a christian choice in 08.
Just write in Jesus. His authority is supreme anyway, just everyone don't know it yet. Reckon we need to tell em. I guess that would be street preaching right!!!!

Col 1:18-20
18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.


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sermonindex

I own a lot of guns, and I am a licensed firearms instructor. There are very strong reasons why guns are in the Bill of Rights: A man with a gun is a citizen... a man without a gun is a subject.

Our founding fathers knew that the key to our freedom was first of all devotion to God... and the ownership of guns. Thomas Jefferson even stated that the American people should overthrow the government every 15 to 20 years, just to keep it honest.

The Declaration of Independence even spells out for us that when a government no longer serves the people, the people have an [b]obligation[/b] to severe the ties between them and the government.

That is why guns are in the Bill of Rights.

Now, I do not think the average citizen needs to have an Uzi. There needs to be common sense.

I dont care how Britain views our ownership of guns... England is on the verge of collapse because it is overrun with Muslims. We certainly have our problems with them being here too... but one of the main reasons they havent been as "active" here as there is because they know there are people like me who wont just sit back and take it.

What happens when you have a "gun free" zone? Look at Virginia Tech. A gunman is free to roam the campus and shoot whoever he wants because no one can stop him.

Certainly there are flaws in the system. This kid never should have been able to buy a gun... but it wasnt the law that failed... it was the goof-ball physchiatrists who didnt report his "condition" to the proper authorities.

Sure, some fall thru the cracks... but I would rather have that happen (falling thru the cracks, I mean... not the murders) than to have a completely unarmed citizenry that is at the mercy of not only the criminals who will still have guns... but also a government who can then force it's will and abuse it's power.

And by the way... there are more uses for guns than just killing people. I'm sick of hearing that. It's absolutely untrue.

There are plenty of shooting sports. The Boy Scouts and 4-H have incredible shooting sports programs that involve shotguns, rifles, archery, etc. Around here there are different rodeo type events that involve horsemanship and shooting. It's a skill sport. There is nothing wrong with that.

And lets not forget about hunting!

Way more people are killed in America with automobiles than guns... ban the cars first.

Krispy

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sermonindex

I dont care how Britain views our ownership of guns... England is on the verge of collapse because it is overrun with Muslims. We certainly have our problems with them being here too... but one of the main reasons they havent been as "active" here as there is because they know there are people like me who wont just sit back and take it.

Ugh. Back to "my country can beat up your country"?

Well, America may have produced Bill O'Reilly and Britain made Mr. Bean...

But Canada birthed Celine Dion!

So, la-di-da! Hehe.

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sermonindex

Ugh. Back to "my country can beat up your country"?

No it has nothing to do with that at all. England is our greatest friend. But in England gun ownership is non-existant, and thats why their crime rate is astronomical.

In Australia they outlawed gun ownership a few years back, and their crime rate went thru the roof.

See, when you outlaw guns, the only people who obey the laws are the law abiding citizens. Who still has guns? The criminals.

9 times out 10 in America when someone lunatic commits a gun crime you hear everyone yelling for more gun laws. Well, I got news for you... usually the criminal broke about 15 gun laws when he committed the crime. More gun laws do not solve the problem.

In Kennesaw, Georgia they passed a law a few years ago making it [b]mandatory[/b] for all Kennesaw residences to own a gun. It's a law that they dont enforce because the town leaders actually practice a little something called "common sense", understanding that not all citizens are comfortable with guns.

However, the crime rate [b]dropped[/b] to almost ZERO in less than a year, and it's remained there ever sense. It's one of the safest places in America to live... and 90% of the population owns guns. 20/20 even did a piece on Kennesaw after the Virginia Tech shootings.

If you're a burglar, are you going to break into a house in a town where you know that 90% of the citizens own guns? Uhmmm... let me think about this one... hmmm... NO.

And this statistic is true of just about every place where there are a lot of legal gun owners.

I cant stand Bill O'Reilly or Celine Dion... I dont know what they have to do with anything.

This is not a "tougher than you are" issue. It's silly to try and make it one.

The fact is, those who exercise their right to not own guns, and to yell and carry on about those who do can always rely on those of us who do to protect your rights.

Your welcome. :-)

Krispy

PS... Corey, just noticed you're Canadian. Sorry bud, I cant protect you. You're on your own! LOL

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sermonindex


Krispy wrote

England is on the verge of collapse because it is overrun with Muslims.
:-) What?

'overrun'? I hardly think so... and I'm sorry if I've had anything to do with giving you that impression.

But in England gun ownership is non-existant, and thats why their crime rate is astronomical.
Again.... What? 'non-existant'...... 'astronomical'.....?


Brother, you know I love you, so, I have to say that I think you've over-egged the above three puddings.

The main reason there is a crime problem anywhere, is not the lack of gun ownership, but the lack of new hearts and a turning of people's minds by those with their ear, to point them to a Saviour from eternal condemnation. The continual trend of governments towards religious tolerance, which we know will soon begin to compromise our Christian religious freedom (for the lack which many have been dying for centuries), is the other side of this truth.

As I heard an English bishop of the Church of England say recently (Please remember, there [i]is[/i] an association of evangelical Anglicans led by Anglican clergy who do [i]understand[/i] the gospel.) that the real danger to Christianity is not those seeking freedom of religious practice, but the Secularists, who want to 'banish from the public square, any rumour of God'. I was struck by this precise and truthful analysis. I remember the days when it was considered 'intellectually unrespectable' to admit one believed 'in God', over here.

A detailed discussion of the links between politics and recorded crime anywhere, is superfluous, surely. But I was interested in this:

'... Thomas Jefferson even stated that the American people should overthrow the government every 15 to 20 years, just to keep it honest.

The Declaration of Independence even spells out for us that when a government no longer serves the people, the people have an [b]obligation[/b] to severe the ties between them and the government.'

My association with an English Literature student(which y'all know I've mentioned before), caused me to begin to read Leviathan, by Thomas Hobbes (17th century), and it is remarkable how exactly your voting system for President still follows his proposals - for which he was branded an atheist, incidentally.

My point is, that he sought to give each adult a way of delegating [i]their authority[/i] to a single head of state, thereby willingly subjecting themselves to that head's choices. Earlier, (16th century) something similar had been discussed philosophically by a French writer. Now, having disposed of 'monarchy' as we see it in the Bible (so we think!), we still believe God chooses our leaders for us, or, lets us have leaders who will correct our foolish ways, to turn our hearts back to Him, as He did with the Hebrews in Egypt.

This has been discussed here on SI in many different ways, and I hope we all now see, that whether we vote or not, if we actually [i]believe[/i] God gives us our rulers, then as Tyndale puts it so eloquently in the prologue to the books of the Old Testament which he had time to translate (now published by Yale)

'... Even so if any of God's children be hurt by any of his brthren, he may not avenge himself with hand or heart. God must avenge. And the governors and ministers of the law that God hath ordained to rule us by concerning our outward conversation of one with another, they must avenge. If they will not avenge, but rather maintain wrong and be opressors themselves, then must we tarry patiently till God come, which is ever ready to reap tyrants off the face of the earth, as soon as their sins are ripe.

Consider also what wrath, vengeance, and plagues God threateneth to them that are rebellious and disobedient.

Then go to and read the stories of the bible for they learning and comfort, and see every thing practised before thine eyes: for according to those examples shall it go with thee and all men until the world's end...'


I don't know where this leaves the right to bear arms, but I see in it a scripturally supportable stance which promotes my highest aspirations... in other words, that I might be willing to die for my Lord, rather than compromise over truth.

Mr Paul would need God's overcoming help to win in the face of all that will be thrown at him and his supporters, as his campaign moves on.

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sermonindex

No surprise, my dear sister... I disagree with you.

Well, actually, I agree with this part:

The main reason there is a crime problem anywhere, is not the lack of gun ownership, but the lack of new hearts and a turning of people's minds by those with their ear, to point them to a Saviour from eternal condemnation.

In a perfect world, all would come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and love one another. Since scripture makes it clear that this will never happen... I will do what I have to do to protect those whom God has entrusted to me. And I will (and have done so) fight to preserve what few freedoms we have left in this country. It's an American patriotism that few outside our borders understand. I know it's fashionable on this forum to complain about all that is wrong with America... and there is plenty wrong... but the fact is I wouldnt want to live anywhere else in the world. (Unless of course God called me to live somewhere else... which up until now He hasnt). I've seen most of the world... those Americans who complain the loudest about America have never lived outside of America.

I'm gonna get flamed now for showing my red, white & blue side... but believe it or not, it's possible to be a Patriot and still love Jesus. Thank God most of Founding Fathers thought so too. (And please dont post about how they were "deists"... very few were. Most were born again Bible believers. You've swallowed the Public School lies...)

Krispy

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sermonindex

England is our greatest friend.

I thought Canada was your best friend! Longest undefended border in the world, and all...

p.s. I'm not a big O'Reilly fan nor a Dion fan. Just thought the names would fit.

A
adamdawkins

Well Krispy, we disagree at last ;)

Crime may be astronomical in Britain, but it's not gun related. The fact is, you need guns in America, because you have guns in America.

The 'gunfree' zone proved my point. I've never heard of a UK school shooting, and all of our schools are gun-free!

As for the constitution, regardless of the faith of the founding fathers - the American constitution is based on liberalism, which ultimately boils down to "every man can do what is right in his own eyes" - I studied the US Constitution. We escaped the rise of Liberalism in the UK because while France had the Revolution we had a Revival - but sadly, we've now caught up. Patriotism isn't wrong, but I don't know one truly Godly constitution or institution in World politics today.


"A man with a gun is a citizen, a man without a gun is a subject"

Well, technically we're all subjects in the UK, because we have a Monarch - oh well.

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sermonindex

I thought Canada was your best friend! Longest undefended border in the world, and all...

Thats cuz we're all armed! And y'all know it! ;-)

Hey, you did give us Paul Brandt. He's kinda cool. (Canadian country music singer and born again Christian)

Krispy

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sermonindex

Well, technically we're all subjects in the UK, because we have a Monarch...

I like Monarchs. My wife has a butterfly bush outside our dining room window and it's cool to see those little butterflies come around.

God save the Queen (and I dont mean Freddy Mercury!)

Krispy

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sermonindex

Hey, you did give us Paul Brandt. He's kinda cool. (Canadian country music singer and born again Christian)

And Michael J. Fox (Back to the Future), and Jim Carrey (The Mask), and Shania Twaine (Country Music), and William Shatner... sorry about that one...

Hehe.

Back to Ron Paul...

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sermonindex


Krispy said

No surprise, my dear sister... I disagree with you.
Hi brother (dear, of course), I see why you think [i]all[/i] my posts are long... I'm not hoping for a protracted argument, but I wonder if you'd say on what you [u]dis[/u]agreed with me, just with a quick quote?

Meanwhile, let me add one thought to Tyndale's exposition - remembering he was writing at a time of definite persecution of Bible believing Christians. It is that I'm thinking through the reality of - say, natural disaster (because of the flooding in England I had to think about yesterday), famine, war and other means,,, for instance fuel restrictions and so on - being separated from people by physical geograpby.

This touches on the thread about Rumours of Wars, naturally, because the fact is, each individual Christian (remember some of us don't live in family groups and don't have an ex Marine to protect us), have to know from the Lord what He would want us to do if we were in danger.

Would I leave on foot? Would I stay? What would I do for money? Or would I drive as far as I could if I had gas...? What about my (big) kids?

This reminds me of the choices facing the victims of Katrina... which at least was survivable if one had means. But, what 'means' really count for eternity, in the actual face of an enemy beating on your door? Probably you know better than I, in natural terms, but I don't even know that!

I think this is why I am so encouraged by what Tyndale wrote. So I really am hoping it's not with [i]him[/i] you disagree.

A
adamdawkins

And Michael J. Fox (Back to the Future), and Jim Carrey (The Mask), and Shania Twaine (Country Music), and William Shatner... sorry about that one...

And you gave us (UK) Lennox Lewis and Greg Rusedski and we...what have we done for Canada? Well, you're in the Commonwealth I suppose... Does Canada have more in common with the UK or America though, I don't know. Sorry, this is quite off topic.

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sermonindex

whoa, I thought we weren't sposed to talk about politics on this forum?

so now we can?

ok, put your seatbelts on.

B
BeYeDoers

I'm voting Krispy for president.

J
jordanamo


Corey_H wrote:
Back to Ron Paul...

I would just like to clarify my recent post concerning Ron Paul... I am in quite disagreement with his political philosophy of libertarianism, but agree that he's the best of the candidates, which still wouldn't make me go out and vote for him.

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sermonindex

...what have we done for Canada?

We've been asking the same question since [i]The War of 1812[/i] - when an intoxicated contingent of Canadian soldiers burned down the Whitehouse for his majesty, the King of England.

The only other people I know of that have destroyed the White House (other than drunk canucks) were the aliens in Independence Day...

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sermonindex

I'm voting Krispy for president.

Vive le Revolution!!!

I
IRONMAN

brethren Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved. AMEN.

bro Krispy

I own a lot of guns, and I am a licensed firearms instructor. There are very strong reasons why guns are in the Bill of Rights: A man with a gun is a citizen... a man without a gun is a subject.

*Note to self: don't try and sneak into bro Krispy's house...* :-P

i don't have any guns but i know several people who have lots of them. i had thought of buying one but them bad boys cost a lot, perhaps you could give me one...my birthday is October 1 and i will p.m. you my mailing address. ;-) :-P My wife was against the idea and in the end i felt no leading of our Lord to get one. i am of the conviction that He will not be surprised if someone does roll up on me with a gun and until my work is done, i'm not going anywhere. that being said if God so moves me, i'll be gun-shopping.

Way more people are killed in America with automobiles than guns... ban the cars first.

you know i think we here need to learn how to drive all over...having been driven around Europe at speeds which would land one in jail here (very safely i might add) i must say, Europeans are very good drivers...

Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.

I
IRONMAN

?oh i can hear "hail to the chief" now...make me your v.p. bro!

bro Krispy i would like to ask though about this which you said:

I'm gonna get flamed now for showing my red, white & blue side... but believe it or not, it's possible to be a Patriot and still love Jesus.

shouldn't one be a Lover of Christ [i][b]first[/b][/i]? i don't think it's incidental you put patriot before Christ, that seems a common thing in America and in other places too i'm sure. i will say that having lived in Zimbabwe most of my life and having spent a good amount of time here, Zimbabwe is home, messed up as it is at the moment. i long to go back there, but really what i long for is Home...when my work is done i will fly home. :-D

Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus. AMEN.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi Corey...

Ron Paul is a non-interventionist...he does not believe in America being the world's police force...

So were the founding fathers. Non-interventionism's in the constitution.

Ummm...where would we find this "non-interventionism" in the Constitution? It would be ironic, since this Government might not exist had it not been for the intervention of France. By the way, "non-interventionism" seems to simply be a less offensive term for "isolationism" (even though both are not entirely the same).

Non-intervention is almost always popular. It was even popular in the days preceding the Second World War. In fact, the first [i]Superman[/i] comic book centered on the [url=http://xroads.virginia.edu/~UG02/yeung/actioncomics/page11.html]issue of non-intervention[/url] (the bad guys wanted the US involved with the war in Europe). But remember: It was "isolationist" policy and attitudes that are blamed for everything from the Sho'ah holocaust carried out by the Nazis during the 30s and 40s to the genocides taking place in Africa today.

When does it become moral or necessary for a government to interfere in the internal affairs of another? Is it [u]ever[/u] justified for this nation to interfere in the history of other nations and peoples? We must remember that this world is much smaller than it was during the founding of this nation. Even then, our fledging democracy depended upon the intervention of a European power.

Ironically, many of the individuals complaining out US intervention in Iraq are complaining that the US doesn't intervene in Darfur. One could wonder what would the world be like had the US intervened in Afghanistan during the 1990s when we knew that the Taliban was harboring Al Quaeda? Could 9/11 and the London bombings have been prevented by a little intervention? I wonder...

:-(

S
sermonindex

Oops. I should have just said "the founding fathers were non-interventionists"...

"Thomas Paine is generally credited with instilling the first non-interventionist ideas into the American body politic; his work Common Sense contains many arguments in favor of avoiding alliances. These ideas introduced by Paine took such a firm foothold that the Continental Congress struggled against forming an alliance with France and only agreed to do so when it was apparent that the American Revolutionary War could be won in no other manner."

"George Washington's farewell address is often cited as laying the foundation for a tradition of American non-interventionism:

'The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to domestic nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible. Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities.'"

"President Thomas Jefferson extended Washington's ideas in his March 4, 1801 inaugural address: 'peace, commerce, and honest friendship with all nations, entangling alliances with none.' Jefferson's phrase 'entangling alliances' is, incidentally, sometimes incorrectly attributed to Washington.[1]"

"In 1823, President James Monroe articulated what would come to be known as the Monroe Doctrine, which some have interpreted as non-interventionist in intent: 'In the wars of the European powers, in matters relating to themselves, we have never taken part, nor does it comport with our policy, so to do. It is only when our rights are invaded, or seriously menaced that we resent injuries, or make preparations for our defense.'"

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_non-interventionism]Source - Wikipedia / Non-interventionism[/url]

However, Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the United States Constitution, sometimes referred to as the War Powers Clause, vests in the Congress the exclusive power to declare war.

If this is the case, Bush broke the law.

This thread was so sweet and innocent. Too bad.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi Corey...

However, Article I, Section 8, Clause 11 of the United States Constitution, sometimes referred to as the War Powers Clause, vests in the Congress the exclusive power to declare war.

If this is the case, Bush broke the law.

In case you forgot or didn't realize it, Congress (including Senators Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards, John McCain, and Fred Thompson) passed the "Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002" (commonly known as the Iraqi War Resolution). Since then, both houses of Congress have repeatedly authorized the war.

As such, President Bush [u]obeyed[/u] the law.

Do you see how such a simple political statement ("...[i]Bush broke the law[/i]") can be merit some rhetorical criticism? It seems that such a statement is attempting to influence rather than educate. Even if the Congress does not approve of a war, the President can still commit troops to an area for 60-90 days without Congressional approval (according to the War Powers Resolution).

Please understand that I don't want to "nitpick" against your statements or opinions. Rather, I would hope that such accusations or statements of "matter of fact" could be better researched, less we find ourselves bearing "false witness" against such individuals (including the President of the United States).

This thread was so sweet and innocent. Too bad.
Such false statements seemingly meant to influence opinion cannot be "sweet and innocent" -- even if done in sincerity or ignorance.

As for the topic: Republican Ron Paul is a very interesting individual. I don't personally agree with his foreign policy positions of non-intervention or free trade (particularly, his support of NAFTA and CAFTA). Nor do I support his desire to reintroduce the "gold standard," support for the legalization of "medical marijuana," or his libertarian views on homosexuality, abortion or drugs.

However, I do embrace his ideas on religious liberty, fair taxes, anti-capital punishment and education. It will be interesting to see what happens. While I seriously doubt that he will make much of an impact in the primaries, his campaign might make him a more popular candidate in the future.

:-)

S
sermonindex

And Michael J. Fox (Back to the Future), and Jim Carrey (The Mask), and Shania Twaine (Country Music), and William Shatner... sorry about that one...

Yea, well... we gave the world Michael Vick!! Take that!

...and lets not forget Paris Hilton!

Thats our way of getting back at Canada for the whole William Shatner thing.

Krispy

P
PaulWest

Hey, what about John Candy?

In my unsaved days I saw all his movies and watched SCTV. Canadian Bacon was funny. Canada's so innocuous and friendly, a Canadian actor even starred in a movie making fun of it!

Donald Sutherland, on the other hand, who is also Canadian, is one of the finest actors in all of history. I know this because my wife made me watch "Pride and Predjudice" the other day (all of you guys who are yet to be married, get ready to have to do stuff like this). She also made me watch "Gone with the Wind" a few months ago. Pray for me.

At least she doesn't make me watch cheesy Sandra Bullock and Julia Roberts stuff anymore, like before we were saved. Yuck.

Brother Paul

S
sermonindex

In case you forgot or didn't realize it, Congress (including Senators Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, John Edwards, John McCain, and Fred Thompson) passed the "Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Iraq Resolution of 2002" (commonly known as the Iraqi War Resolution). Since then, both houses of Congress have repeatedly authorized the war.

This Act does not give the executive branch the power to just invade Iraq without congreesional approval.

Section 3, Paragraph B of that same Act states:

[i]"(b) PRESIDENTIAL DETERMINATION- In connection with the exercise of the authority granted in subsection (a) to use force the President shall, prior to such exercise or as soon thereafter as may be feasible, but no later than 48 hours after exercising such authority, make available to the Speaker of the House of Representatives and the President pro tempore of the Senate his determination that--

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and

(2) acting pursuant to this joint resolution is consistent with the United States and other countries continuing to take the necessary actions against international terrorist and terrorist organizations, including those nations, organizations, or persons who planned, authorized, committed or aided the terrorist attacks that occurred on September 11, 2001."[/i]

Bush never gave congress the evidence of weapons of mass destruction (WMD)or evidence of Iraq's ties to the 9/11 tragedy - as this document demands. Neither he nor his administration have found any WMDs or any credible links to terrorists. He and his administration lied about the whole thing and they never provided the evidence congress [i]demanded[/i] before the war, 24 hours after it began... or ever.

He lied. He broke the law.

And don't get me started on how he, and the "coalition of the willing", broke international law when the unilaterally decided to invade Iraq without U.N. consent...

S
sermonindex

...and lets not forget Paris Hilton!

Is she the one that shaved her head? I don't get very good televeision reception in my igloo...

American women are so confusing...

S
sermonindex

Hey, what about John Candy?

In my unsaved days I saw all his movies and watched SCTV. Canadian Bacon was funny. Canada's so innocuous and friendly, a Canadian actor even starred in a movie making fun of it!

I don't know that being a Christian means you can't laugh at hilarious fat men buffooning around and telling jokes, does it?

Donald Sutherland, on the other hand, who is also Canadian, is one of the finest actors in all of history. I know this because my wife made me watch "Pride and Predjudice" the other day (all of you guys who are yet to be married, get ready to have to do stuff like this). She also made me watch "Gone with the Wind" a few months ago. Pray for me.

You poor, poor man! Take my word for it; if she rents a Canadian T.V. show called "Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman"... run!!!

S
sermonindex

She also made me watch "Gone with the Wind" a few months ago. Pray for me.

Now wait a minute... Gone With The Wind is good stuff. If you dont like that movie, frankly... I dont give a... 8-)

If she makes you watch The Sound Of Music, just turn in your membership card to the Manhood Club. It's all over.

Krispy

C
ccchhhrrriiisss

Corey_H...

He lied. He broke the law.
If you understood the entirety of the Iraqi War Resolution and the War Powers Resolution, you would understand the error within this statement. I am amazed at the amount of slanderous accusations (like yours) that are made by individuals who feel that they know more about the legal process than the very individuals in Congress. This war was completely approved by a vast majority in Congress (including Democrats) -- and continues to receive funding by the new members of Congress.

If this war is "illegal" and President Bush has "broken the law" as you allege, then why do the Democrats in Congress refuse to stop it? It seems to me that the Democrats in Congress often use every opportunity to counter the President, his Administration and the Conservative agenda in Congress. Perhaps there is something that you know that could "enlighten" or "educate" them into the truth? Or perhaps you are incorrect and this conspiracy theory is simply based upon false pretenses?

I'm afraid that you have crossed the line from "truth" and have ventured into a vocal assumption based upon misleading "information." Please understand that I am not making any personal attacks on you, but simply reacting mordantly (and without malice) to the statements that you've already made. If you are to make such a slanderous remark against the President of the United States, you should be ready, willing and able to "back up" such a statement. If you're incorrect, then you have not only publicly erred about a supposed "lie," but you have become guilty of bearing false witness against someone.

While I don't agree with President Bush in all matters, I find it difficult to sit by when mallicious allegations are made openly and seemingly without inhibition. As believers, don't you think that we should be held to a higher standard? You don't have to agree with the President or the war, but there is no need to venture into such rhetorical "cheap shots" that seem to be widely based upon erroneous conspiracy theories.

:-)

S
sermonindex

This war was completely approved by a vast majority in Congress (including Democrats) -- and continues to receive funding by the new members of Congress.

No, the Act was passed authorizing the United States to go to war with Iraq [i]if[/i] certain criteria were met. These criteria included the Executive proving to Congress that Iraq had WMDs and that Iraq was in cahoots with terrorists.

They proved neither and Bush, in fact, lied about both.

If this war is "illegal" and President Bush has "broken the law" as you allege, then why do the Democrats in Congress refuse to stop it?

Probably because since Bush has doubled the public debt of 4 trillion to a debt of over 8.7 trillion since taking office (kind of amusing that a republican, who believes in "conservative" government, should double the nation debt in, what, six years?)... they probably believe "staying the course" and instituting "regime change" in Iraq will be more profitable (oil, anyone?)than pulling out - since they're there already anyway.

Besides, two parties does not a democracy make. But I digress...

I'm afraid that you have crossed the line from "truth" and have ventured into a vocal assumption based upon misleading "information." Please understand that I am not making any personal attacks on you, but simply reacting mordantly (and without malice) to the statements that you've already made. If you are to make such a slanderous remark against the President of the United States, you should be ready, willing and able to "back up" such a statement.

Take a deep, deep breath... ahhhh... that's it...

Now for the lies:

“The Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.”

No WMDs were found.

“[Iraq] has aided, trained and harbored terrorists, including operatives of Al Qaeda.”

Hussein was a modernist, Bin Laden a fundamentalist. The Bush Administration never found a link.

“America tried to work with the United Nations to address this threat because we wanted to resolve the issue peacefully.”

The United States formed the "coalition of the willing" and unilaterally decided to invade Iraq without the consent of the vast majority of the world's nations.

“If we must begin a military campaign, it will be directed against the lawless men who rule your country and not against you.”

650,000 Iraqis have died in this war, many of them innocent women and children. And during the nineties an estimated one million children starved to death because of U.S. led sanctions.

“We will tear down the apparatus of terror and we will help you to build a new Iraq that is prosperous and free.”

He should have said, "we'll hire Halliburton to reconstruct everything for you". No work for the Iraqis, but lots of money for Americans in the way of weapons and reconstruction industry.

“Should Saddam Hussein choose confrontation, the American people can know that every measure has been taken to avoid war and every measure will be taken to win it.”

Saddam posed no threat to America. America posed a threat to Iraq's oil.

“The terrorist threat to America and the world will be diminished the moment that Saddam Hussein is disarmed.”

For every Iraqi kid killed by an American depleted uranium shell, ten more pop up. They're learning guerrila tactics. And they want revenge.

The toppling of Hussein increased the threat of terrorism.

“Unlike Saddam Hussein, we believe the Iraqi people are deserving and capable of human liberty... The United States with other countries will work to advance liberty and peace in that region.”

The single biggest thing Iraqis miss about Saddam is "at least there was order". Rape, theft, kidnapping, murder, and terrorism are rampent under the U.S. puppet government (divide and conquer... makes it easy to git' their oil [insert Bush laugh here])

G
ginnyrose

Krispy,
Where do you get your knowledge about the "Sound of Music'? Have you watched it? Did you turn in your membership card to the manhood club?

Hey, man! I love to hear those children sing! Opps, I am a female.... :-)

ginnyrose

S
sermonindex

Krispy,
Where do you get your knowledge about the "Sound of Music'? Have you watched it? Did you turn in your membership card to the manhood club?

I always imagined Krispy as a "West Side Story" kind of Marine. Like tough, but in a sensitive way...

Hehe.

I
IRONMAN

Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved. AMEN.

bro Paul you said:

Donald Sutherland, on the other hand, who is also Canadian, is one of the finest actors in all of history. I know this because my wife made me watch "Pride and Predjudice" the other day (all of you guys who are yet to be married, get ready to have to do stuff like this). She also made me watch "Gone with the Wind" a few months ago. Pray for me.

well maybe at your house... :-P ...that's not how i roll! 8-)

praise God for our wives. AMEN.

Grace and Peace be ours in Jesus' Name. AMEN.

C
ccchhhrrriiisss

Hello Corey...

They proved neither and Bush, in fact, lied about both.
I am openly asking you to stop publicly "assassinating" the character of President Bush by making such a wild and biased assertion. There are many of us that are fully aware of the issues at hand who do not agree with or believe the multiple conspiracy theories that are laid against the President in regards to the conflict. It is difficult to sit by and listen to you spew forth such supposedly "expert" rhetoric while only offering assumption rather than proof. This sort of rhetoric should not be reflective of the character of a believer, and certainly has no place on this forum. Have you ever sat with President Bush, members of his cabinet or members of Congress? Is the information that you provide in your accusation first hand, second hand or simply gathered from the internet?

I truly believe that this sort of rhetoric is extremely dangerous. First of all, it is dangerous to assert such reasoning as fact without making a distinction between the two. It seems that such subtle assertions are actually an attempt to convert opinion rather than present fact within the forum. Additionaly, many of the statements that you present as "fact" are actually unsubstantiated or undocumented declarations. You are certainly entitled to your beliefs, but is it right to introduce those beliefs in such a manner here?

In regards to the rules of this forum community, the Moderators and Administrators ask us to refrain from introducing such biased political rhetoric. Not only do your statements appear to be politically motivated, but your words actually seem to border on mockery and hatred (as in "[i]insert Bush laugh here[/i]").

Again, please don't think that I simply desire to point out your posts because of political disagreement. However, it just seems like there hasn't been a proper defense to your accusations. What should I do? I could go through your threads line-by-line and point out many areas of disagreement while also including source material to counter your claims. Remember, even in regards to Iraqi deaths, there are many different organizations that make completely different claims. As is true with all statistics, the conclusion can be changed according to the information that is presented or that which is not presented. As such, I could also go through all of your claims and question the validity of the statistics that you provided. However, I really don't have the time to do this. In fact, no one should have to do that on a forum such as this. Opinionated accusations, without evidence, should not exist here UNLESS you plainly distinguish between what it is fact, what is deduction, and what is merely opinion.

There are a multitude of opinions about the Iraq War, including perspectives concerning its rationality. As a student of PhD candidate in Policy, I've heard a multitude of information and opinion in the matter. Which is correct? There are compelling points on all sides. While we all realize that there weren't any WMDs in Iraq (thankfully -- even though Saddam Hussein claimed that they existed and the intelligence of many major powers believed such), that was only a part (although, major) of the rationale behind the war. There were several other points introduced by then Secretary of State Colin Powell. We should also be quick to remember that President Bush and his Administration relied on the information provided by the Central Intelligence Agency. President Bush, Powell, Cheney, Ashcroft and the like presented an argument that was based upon that intelligence. You are accusing President Bush of "lies" -- all of which were based upon domestic and foreign intelligence. Wouldn't that be as disingenerous as claiming to actually know the inner MOTIVES of the man?

I'm not certain that anyone knows the "correct" perspective about Iraq -- including the millions of armchair generals who search the internet and reach conclusions after a limited amount of limited research. The only safe option is to make a distinction as such. Regardless, we should never make an accusation that we cannot know the certainty of. So the next time that you claim that President Bush lied, please remember the scope of the claim that you are making and be prepared to introduce firsthand knowledge (including firsthand personal conversation) in the matter.

:-)

By the way, I am NOT trying to say that President Bush didn't lie. I am only trying to say that there is no way for [u]you[/u] to truly know this. If you can't honestly know the certainly of such a statement, then how can you publicly slander him? We should be much slower to judge, in my opinion.

S
sermonindex

I am openly asking you to stop publicly "assassinating" the character of President Bush by making such a wild and biased assertion. There are many of us that are fully aware of the issues at hand who do not agree with or believe the multiple conspiracy theories that are laid against the President in regards to the conflict.

Are these links conspiracy theories?

[url=http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/10/07/wmd.report.reax/index.html]According to the CIA's Charles Duelfer, Saddam Hussein did not possess weapons of mass destruction. (Original Link - CNN)[/url]

[url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/story/2002/11/01/bushiraq021101.html]And experts across the globe highly doubt Bush's alleged link between Iraq and Al Qaeda. (Original Link - CBC)[/url]

By the way, I am NOT trying to say that President Bush didn't lie.

Good. Because he lied a ton of lies to get you kind folks into an illegal war. A lot of young American men, and far more Iraqis, have died because of his lies.

You must work for some kind of Homeland Security or government-type job to be this loyal. I appreaciate your loyalty, but I'm after the truth.

S
sermonindex

I believe it is a the known fact is we don't know all matters or the confidential facts in which to agree or disagree with the President. We have not briefed on any matters. I am encouraged by a sitting President or any President who will stand for the God, the Word of God and be dependent upon HIM. We have had many Presidents since the birth of the USA who have did just that. In a Presidential debate in 2000 when the President was asked," what person has had the most influence on your life", and His answer was " Christ". The follow up question was would you explain how? He said if you have never experience it,it would hard for me would be hard to explain and then he said," he changed my life". They thought they had just killed his chances to win. But what the devil meant for harm God turned into good.

Our first allegiance as a citizen of heaven is to the Lamb. Our second is to our brother and sisters on earth. Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. I have heard many negative and positive comments about the President. Our system of government gives each citizen the right to either negative or positive. I won't try to justify or defend his actions and that is not my purpose but whether as a citizen I agree or disagree, he has been given the authority to execute the office as he sees fit. God's Word says I am to pray for those in authority and I must admit I find it easier to pray for him than some of the Presidents in the past and possible in the future. Some of the past Presidents I thought were right on target at the time, but since I was saved I disagree with them. However, whether they have the, "what's God got to do with it" attitude or not, we are to pray for those who God has put in authority. My prayer is we will always have a person that it is a joy to pray for and that you have heard from his mouth and seen from his vetoes, and from his speeches he is dependent upon who we all are dependent upon and stand for righteousness. Stands for The God of Abraham, Isiaac and Jacob, the ONE that sent HIS SON Jesus, to die on a cross for you and I. He has overcome death, hell and the grave, paid for our sins, so we can live too. This post is not meant to be political. God Bless the USA and God Bless the President and may both the President and the USA always bless God. When we no longer consider ourselves one nation under God, we will be a nation gone under.

S
sermonindex

I always imagined Krispy as a "West Side Story" kind of Marine. Like tough, but in a sensitive way...

Funny you should mention that... I like West Side Story. First time I made my kids watch it they were like, "Uhhh... why are they dancing??"

lol...

Check it out, I like Phantom Of The Opera too. The musical version. The movie they made of A.L. Webber's musical is great.

I'm a multi-facetted kinda redneck.

Krispy

S
sermonindex

I like West Side Story...

I like Phantom Of The Opera too...

I'm a multi-facetted kinda redneck.

Well, I'm a Canuck who enjoys a Guiness or wine over normal beer... and the only time I care about hockey is when the Edmonton Oilers make the playoffs (I still haven't forgiven you Carolinians about 2006)...

So nobody's perfect.

S
sermonindex

I still haven't forgiven you Carolinians about 2006

Get over it, loser. lol

Well, I'm a Canuck who enjoys a Guiness

I'm a patriot. I dont drink beer hardly at all. Maybe twice a year over a nice steak dinner... and then it's Samuel Adams.

(This is [b]really[/b] gonna upset some folks here! We need to stop being so transparent!)

Krispy

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