Let's Get Refocussed | SermonIndex

S

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007

I'm sure I'm not the only one here who has noticed that this forum, in general, is getting off track.

I know I have played a part in it because I have allowed myself to be baited when I should have walked away.

While it's fine to talk about Harry Potter, world affairs and music in light of scripture, what has been happening over the course of the past few weeks is shameful. I'm not pointing a finger at anyone because I've allowed myself to get caught up in it too. This is an overall problem involving all of us.

The purpose of this forum is to edify and encourage one another, and join together in our desire for revival. We've lost focus of this, I believe.

Thru this forum I have gotten to know people from around the world, and tho we dont always see eye to eye on every little thing we discuss, we have forged friendships of lasting importance, even tho we may never meet on this side of heaven.

A decade or so ago this would have been impossible.

I want to make a challenge to all who read this and participate in this forum. While there will be disagreements on this forum, lets not make someone out to be the enemy. They are not. Our enemy is Satan. Not another believer, and not even someone who claims to be a believer but may not be demonstrating the spiritual fruits that a true believer in the Gospel should demonstrate.

Remember, even as believers we may not be bearing good fruit all the time. I know I dont. I wish I did.

If a argument arises on a thread, walk away. If you feel that you're trying to compel someone to reason with you about a particular issue, but you feel like you're talking to a tree... walk away. What difference does it make if you win or lose an argument? I can tell you by experience that if you dont walk away it wont be long and you'll be arguing in the flesh, and your motives will not be pure.

State your case and leave it alone unless you think the other party is willing to listen.

There is a lot of political baiting going on right now in this forum, and it's always been understood (and part of the rules) that politics is not part of what this forum is about. It's always a hot button, it's always controversial. It needs to stop.

So what if someone hates George Bush, or hates Al Gore...? Find a forum that discusses politics and fight like Hannity & Colms all you want. Thats not why we're here. The internet is not lacking for political debate... dont bring it in here.

This forum used to be a sanctuary. A place where we could come and have healthy discussions. Every once in awhile we do lose focus and need to be brought back in and reminded of why we are here. Someone else mentioned that we should be able to do this without Mike & Greg interjecting themselves into this and scolding people. I agree.

So c'mon brothers and sisters... lets get refocussed and recommitted to why we're here.

Lets have a day of repentence.

Let's start with me.

Lord, I repent for being upset at some of my brethren, and I repent for allowing myself to get caught up in debates and divisions that I should have ignored. Help me to be more focussed on edifying and encouraging my brethren, as well as being open to what others have to say. Help me to learn from my friends here at SI. Lead all of us into the truth.

Amen.

Krispy

R

Rahman Jul 26, 2007

Yea and Amen.

H

hmmhmm Jul 26, 2007

Amen

M

murdog Jul 26, 2007

Krispy,

Now you listen here, I am going to tell you like it is.....Just Kidding.

Amen Brother.

Murray

R

running2win Jul 26, 2007

Thank you so much for this Krispy. I've felt the need for this too.

C

ccchhhrrriiisss Jul 26, 2007

Thanks Krispy...

I began to realize this over the last couple of days. I have no problem with individuals wanting to introduce discussion of current events (or controversial issues) on this forum. However, I do have a problem when the intent is to replace "fact" with "speculation" -- or to introduce issues or beliefs in a manner that seems like one set is the only ones that count (thus closing any sort of honest discussion).

These sort of discussions appear contrary to the goal of this ministry.

A dispute is not necessarily a bad thing. In fact, a discussion about such issues can be helpful in imparting and contemplating knowledge. However, when individuals discuss issues in a manner in which they use the opportunity to make their beliefs sound like the only ones that matter, or when an individual makes wild, unsubstantiated claims based on fallacies of thinking, then the outcome is usually less-than-ideal. In the past, they seemed to produce divisive "clicks" where individuals of like beliefs formed cloaked factions that are united by distinct opinion (and where those who are often most guilty reacted to one another [and publicly] as if they were "victims"). Such division cannot be helpful. This is in direct contradiction with the mission of this website.

Thank you, Krispy, for bringing this up! It would be good if we could all take this concept to heart. As believers, we should always learn to walk away -- even than being right. With God's help, we can each put this into personal practice.

:-)

K

Koheleth Jul 26, 2007

This forum used to be a sanctuary.

Need anything more be said? I remember a couple years ago, before I registered, when most of the posts on SI seemed to be heaven-touched.

I would admit it was probably just as much the experience of finding such a place among both the general Internet and the Christian Internet. SI was like a place set apart.

Still, there has been a clear witness over the past year that the Christ-filled nature of many of the posts on this forum have been missing. Now all that remains is to ask ourselves, can that be recovered?

S

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007

Hey Krispy, Brother..

I just wanted to encourage you. Your kind of like one of the Pillars here at SI. You had said in the HP thread that you were away from SI for two weeks and when you came back it was not the same. Certainly it wasn't the same because one of the Pillars were missing. As you said about Brother Ron that he has challenged your thinking on many occasions, likewise, you have that same effect on others here. Like the rudder on the ship, though it be small, yet it steers the ship.

I am not trying to thwart this thread into a lifting up ceremony of members, however, you do play a large role here. And for that I am grateful. So the next time you leave for two weeks, find someone that will take your place. Someone who is like minded, filled with integrity, and humility.

Sincerely In Christ 8-)

S

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007

ccchhhrriiisss...

I'm all for lively discussions, and I've never been afraid to tackle controversial topics. But controversy for the sake of controversy has no place here.

Recently the Bible version issue has been discussed... and it has been a wonderful experience because tho there were widely different opinions, it was done in a very civil and loving way. Thats when a controversial topic can be a blessing.

We need to get ahold of that. If we can discuss something like Bible versions in that manner, then certainly we can disucss other matters in the same way.

Krispy

S

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007

Compliments... I appreciate your words, but I assure you there are others here who are bigger rudders than me. But if I have done or said anything encourage anyone here, let God get the glory... cuz I know the real me. :-)

Krispy

C

ccchhhrrriiisss Jul 26, 2007

Hi Krispy...

I agree! I'm not sure about the true motivation of the threads in question, but they did seem to "bait" me into discussing the issues and defending individuals (like President Bush) against the slanderous allegations that were raised.

I do hope that we can let go of all of this and move forward. I will do my best to avoid the threads that seem like cheap political or divisive debate.

Thanks again for bringing this up!

:-)

H

HopePurifies Jul 26, 2007

I agree Krispy... I really liked the way the forums were before too...
I gotta admit that I'm finding myself quite torn here more and more often. I want to present what I've learned from the scriptures and what God has taught me, but it seems that that's what everyone else wants to do, too, but with different conclusions. And sometimes I feel that I am under obligation to speak the other side of the issue to them because I used to believe what they believed and it inhibited me in some way.
But I'm hoping that maybe after everyone has hashed it out maybe it will stop naturally. Like the forest fires in the rainforest, where they come up to burn up all the dead leaves so that a bigger fire doesn't happen later. Then again Jesus wants us all to love one another, if we aren't loving we are sinning greatly... but some of us do express our love in different ways.

Edit: and I also wanted to add repentance to mine too. I get out of line a lot, being a youth, just rebuking elder people like I would any old peer. Bible says I'm supposed to show extra respect to you guys (gals implied), but sometimes I forget that you guys aren't my peers in the anonymity of the net.

S

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007

KrispyKrittr wrote:
I want to make a challenge to all who read this and participate in this forum. While there will be disagreements on this forum, lets not make someone out to be the enemy. They are not. Our enemy is Satan. Not another believer, and not even someone who claims to be a believer but may not be demonstrating the spiritual fruits that a true believer in the Gospel should demonstrate.

Amen

Eph 6:12-13
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
KJV

You are right, satan is our enemy, and we should must not get upset when people do not agree with us. We put on the helmet of savation that only Jesus can give us. We pick up the shield of faith the the Holy Spirit gives us so we quench all the fiery darts that satan throws. We put on the belt of truth that Jesus provides and speak the truth even when it means confession of sin in our own life. We have our feet shod with the gospel of peace. We use the only offensive weapon that HE gave us against satan, which is the SWORD OF THE SPIRIT, THE WORD OF GOD, which is what we do on SI, it is the standard of measure in everything we discuss and also should be the standard in which we measure each topic that is discussed on SI. HIS WORD and also should effect every aspect of our life, whatever the topic might be. There should not be a subject that HIS WORD should not shed light on, although some subjects may get very touch-e at times, escepecially if it goes against modern day culture.
I too, pray that I don't take anything personal and only state HIS WORD. I pray for the ability to not be offended by disagreement but rather making sure I am in agreement with HIM and being pleasing to HIM in each post. I pray that I don't offend anyone but if I should happen to offend, it would be with HIS truth.

Matt 5:3-10
3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 4 Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted. 5 Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth. 6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled. 7 Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy. 8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God. 9 Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. 10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

S

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007

I want to present what I've learned from the scriptures and what God has taught me, but it seems that that's what everyone else wants to do, too, but with different conclusions. And sometimes I feel that I am under obligation to speak the other side of the issue to them because I used to believe what they believed and it inhibited me in some way.

Hope... there is nothing wrong with that. Thats why we're here. To share what God has done in our lives and to discuss the truths that He has mercifully shared with us.

We should share our convictions and revelations in love. Sometimes there is a call to be bold and "earnestly contend for the faith"... but we can do that without getting personal about it.

At the same time, we must all be teachable. We must all be willing to learn and willing to be open to the fact that guess what... we could be wrong. I've changed my position on a number of things since I've been here because someone shared something that I hadnt considered before.

On other occasions, I've stood rock solid on my convictions.

We all need more grace, more mercy, more patience with one another... and more Jesus.

Krispy

T

tjservant Jul 26, 2007

We all need more grace, more mercy, more patience with one another... and more Jesus.

Amen brother!

I too repent of any and all wrong doing...on any thread.

S

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007

Can I post too Krisp ?

Guess I'm gonna anyways. ha.

This morning I posted on the "Depression" thread about how I feel here lately, but in a very joking manner.

I looked at the Scriptures and Doctrine Forum and all I saw was the same arguments that have existed for many-many centuries that have never been solved since way back when and it covered the entire Scripture & Doctrine index page.
That was looking sad to me. It's been looking like we're splitting up as a Body.

But I also noticed, that when the deeper Theological issues are posted, like when Robert posted his writing on "Gathering and the gathered" --- that very few reply to those type threads. Just look at the Articles and Devotional Thoughts sections and see how few views and replies there are and than you'll see what's wrong with us ..... Hey, AMEN ... ha, I just amened myself ..... ha ..... but it is true. We complain about General and S & D but where are we with the GREAT discussions on these other Forum sections ? Yeah man. ha.
Only if it's controversial, do we all gather around like we're watching a dog fight. Now that is sad.

Maybe if we start looking at these other Forums on here, we'll start seeing what's missing on General, S & D, and then it will even flow down to the News section after a while.

As far as this other stuff goes. I think it only really gets rough on the News section. I love peace too, but that gets really hot there. It usually always goes or will go that way because we all have our own opinion that we are entitled to but, but then folks get mad at us for our opinion, so I think that area needs more simmering down. I won't post there anymore unless it's something 'other than' those type subjects.

Harry Potter and all those others things 'will' come up and we have folks of all ages here and that's good, except as you have said, unless it gets heated but we should be open to answer things on these fringe topics for whomever.

I'm with you on love & unity between us, cuz the world does & will hate us, so we need to love one another.

We should just maybe try to get off of this "President" topic is what I think you and Chris and others are saying mostly. That's an unsolvable problem and nothing we say or do now about what we think about him will change one iota of what is and will happen. So it's senseless to be arm-chair politicians.

We need to put more meat behind what we've all just posted to this thread and if we truly want to get more spiritual, let's visit Devotional Thoughts and read more closely those type posts and post out our thoughts on them and Articles ... that will be the proof of the pudding here.

Fellowship handshake.
:-)
Thanks !!!

S

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007

We should share our convictions and revelations in love. Sometimes there is a call to be bold and "earnestly contend for the faith"... but we can do that without getting personal about it.

S

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007

Only if it's controversial, do we all gather around like we're watching a dog fight. Now that is sad.

Just had to bring up dog-fighting, didnt ya! lol...

I have noticed many of the same things you're pointing out. I know I've posted some thoughts on what God has been teaching me, and if it isnt controversial it disappears rather quickly.

Thats human nature. Like rubber necking as you pass an accident on the road, or someone pulled over for speeding.

As for topics like politics... it's a lot like coaching football. No matter what I do as a coach, there is always some parent who thinks I'm wrong... and doesnt mind telling me (and everyone else) that I'm wrong. You learn to ignore them.

Many of the discussions on here are like that... no matter what any of us say, someone here is going to disagree. However, sometimes someone gets involved in those discussions and hears something they never considered before. That happens to me. And I cant begin to tell you how many PM's I've gotten from people about the Bible version issue who were dead set against what I was saying, but later softened their hearts toward my words. They may not have come to the conclusions I did... but they were willing to learn and consider.

And if that happens... praise be to God.

Krispy

H

hmmhmm Jul 26, 2007

yes its sometimes sad to see harry potter threads have 178 replies and over 4000 views, and a thread like ~~[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=18239&forum=34&2]~~Picture of a prophet[/url] only slides by almost un-noticed, not that harry potter is not important to discuss, but something in my gut says it should be the other way around

God bless you all

Christian

M

murdog Jul 26, 2007

Christian,

something in my gut says it should be the other way around

That is probably the Holy Spirit.

Murray

S

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007

yes its sometimes sad to see harry potter threads have 178 replies and over 4000 views, and a thread like Picture of a prophet only slides by almost un-noticed,

Brother you are so right. I can watch two cats fight, fur flying and watch it as if I watching two guys in the ring wrestling, pure entertainment. But when it comes to brother pitching against brother, thats not entertaining at all, in fact it hurts.

We are drawn to controversy, arguments and debates, we want to see whats going on. We may hate what we see, but we still are there anyway. When a house is on fire, the whole community comes out to watch. Some may get negative about how the fire was started while others offer assistance, which can be interpreted as both good and bad.

We are funny people, I know I am.

S

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007

We are drawn to controversy, arguments and debates, we want to see whats going on.

Sometimes thats a good thing. For instance... football. (everything with me comes back to football...)

Look at the Atlanta Falcons. The Atlanta Falcons are the #1 rival team of the Carolina Panthers. Last year the media hyped the Panthers as being the team to win the Super Bowl even before training camp began. So the spotlight was on them and they fell on their face and spent the rest of the season trying to catch up.

This year, thanks to Americas pre-occupation with controversy... NOBODY is talking about the Panthers, thanks to the Falcons Quarterback, Mike Vick!

So now, maybe the Panthers can quietly work their way to the Super Bowl.

So controversy can be a good thing. :-)

Dont ya love football logic??

Oh, and as a die-hard Panthers fan, y'all just know I'm loving every second of this Mike Vick thing... hee hee hee...!

Krispy

F

FreebyWord Jul 26, 2007

Contention and debate rule where you find two or more people, and grievously for the name of Jesus this includes Christians.

I worked for a Christian book store three years and witnessed that the truly humble man of God, with vast knowledge of the Word, has little to say and much love toward the brethren in Word and deed, humbly submitting himself to God and man, mindful of the needs of others.

Those with the most to say, the "great" expositors of bible scholarship usually don't.

S

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007

Krispy, thank you for your reply to my post on this previous page. You've noticed it too then, that the "really" Spiritual threads get ignored, yet we cry that we want to everyone else to post more "spiritual". HEY-HOY ? What kinda stuff is that ???? :-?

We've gotta back up our words with getting 'into' these other Spiritual threads, like you said.
There's no sense always doing the motes and beamers thing here with accusing each other of not being spiritual, when we don't even look over at the Devotionals or Articles, nonetheless share at the least an AMEN if we've really read them and felt them tug on our hearts.

It's SOOOOOOOO much easier to pull the log out of other's eyes, isn't it ?

I think if we just keep looking at our own-selves (as they say down yonder here :) and to where 'we' need to grow, then we'll appreciate these more spiritual threads again or more and find our "first love" and return to it.

I really recommend Robert's thread on "Gathering" because it talks about when "we are together and 'why' we are" and stuff like that.
We need to back each other up more in the Positives, so when you or Kire or Pastorfrin or BrokenOne or BrokenVessel or roniya or the many-many others post Spiritual things, that's where we should gather together to meet, thread by thread.

I found another "statement of faith" just now, that maybe we could somehow incorporate into our fellowshipping together here. Heck, if we're gonna have to spend eternity together, we may as well start it off right now ..... :-D .....
Anyhowz, here's the link....

It's written by Anonymous and it can be fashioned to our situation here somehow, maybe ?

Give me your opinion. It's kinda like a house Church thing, but not. I belong to a Church, but see SI as a House-Church, cuz we're all in each other's homes ... ha ... glad there's no video here. Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. (How many cats does she have ????) Ha.

Don't let the title in the link throw ya though... you'll see, it looks like a good goal to have here ... but I'll wait your discernments.

Thanks again!!

EDIT: MY MISTAKE ... it was this one... I'm sorry ...

http://www.lifehouse.org/tracts/christiansimplicity.htm

C

ccchhhrrriiisss Jul 26, 2007

Hi Grannie...

I agree.

I think that the bulk of the problem that I have with such threads are not the opinions that are made -- but the manner in which such opinions are made. There is seldom a distinction between what is PERSUASION and OPINION (in many such matters, including political and doctrinal) and what is FACT.

Examples of "persuasion" incorrectly articulated as "fact":
- There were no WMDs in Iraq, so President Bush is a liar!
- The KJV is the best version of the Bible and all modern versions are corrupt!
- Christian rock-n-roll is authored by Satan himself!
- Believers in a pre-trib "rapture" are deceived!
- As a mature believer, I now understand that tithing is spiritual bondage.
- Drinking wine is going to take you to Hell!
- There aren't any true believers in the Roman Catholic church.
- The neocons in Congress and the White House don't really care about stopping abortion.
- Hurricane Katrina was God's judgment poured upon New Orleans.
- The war being fought in Iraq is all about oil.
- People who speak in tongues are deceived!
- The only truly modest women, according to the Word of God, wear head coverings.
- There is nothing wrong with watching movies!
- The Word of God is clear that watching movies equates to worldliness and will take you to Hell.
- Fat people are guilty of the sin of gluttony, which is just as bad as taking drugs!
- True prophets are rejected by most people in the Church.
- Satan is the author of all secular music!

While some of these statements may contain element of "fact" (and may actually be truth) they are still merely a persuasion. I truly believe that we need to be careful to make a distinction between what is undeniable truth and those things for which we are merely persuaded (even through study and prayer).

There are many different believers from many different backgrounds at many different stages of growth and maturity. If we could all get to the point of agreeing on the essential, articulating the differences between fact and opinion, and showing love in all things -- then perhaps these things wouldn't happen as often?

Besides, there are far more pressing issues at hand.

:-)

S

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007

Examples of "persuasion" incorrectly articulated as "fact":
- The KJV is the best version of the Bible and all modern versions are corrupt!

Uhmmm... actually... well... hmmm...

...leaving it alone... for now.

Krispy

C

ccchhhrrriiisss Jul 26, 2007

Hi Krispy...

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Examples of "persuasion" incorrectly articulated as "fact":
- The KJV is the best version of the Bible and all modern versions are corrupt!
Uhmmm... actually... well... hmmm...
...leaving it alone... for now.
Krispy

lol

But do you understand what I mean about "persuasion" as a possible different entity from "fact." Sometimes, those persuasions are accurately based upon fact. And sometimes, our opinions about what we feel to be undeniable "fact" changes over time.

Anyway, I think that we are on the same page about this (even if we sometimes tend to disagree over Bible translation).

:-)

H

HomeFree89 Jul 26, 2007

Krispy,

Bless you man. This is what the Lord has been teaching me, as you know. ;-) Praise God for these words of wisdom.

Jordan

T

tjservant Jul 26, 2007

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Examples of "persuasion" incorrectly articulated as "fact":
- The KJV is the best version of the Bible and all modern versions are corrupt!
Uhmmm... actually... well... hmmm...
...leaving it alone... for now.
Krispy

Wow. I have seldom seen such restraint on these forums. A true example. It’s hard, at times to let certain comments go by without remark, but if Krispy can do this…well…anything is possible. :-)

On a more serious note. I often think of how Jesus could have verbally shredded any of those that gave opposition, but he chose to remain silent.

S

sermonindex Jul 26, 2007

Chris, I considered giving the same answer as Krispy did on this but decided, since you have always been a very good brother 'to' me, that I should tell ya what I think ... mind you this is just my opinion now ... ha.

You are just as firm with your opinions.

See, that's what I was meaning to say on this previous page. We all have opinions and we shouldn't jump back with our opinions in such a way that we are doing the same thing yet begruding another of free expression. Am I making any sense here ??? I really don't know myself at times. This form of communicating REALLY TRUTHFULLY comes hard to me, but I'm pushing my brain at this point to express what I mean and how I see where we all could get along much better too, just as all the rest are on this thread of Krispy's.

Chris, you do express your opinions as fact and very much persuasion and I don't mean an ounce of harm in that because I prefer that people DO DO THAT.

If a person has a "conviction", which is better way to term it than "opinion" --- then if they don't stand behind they're convictions, they are whimping out .... I'm sorry ... I truthfully cannot come up with a better synomym right now.

Even if your conviction is wrong, I think you just state what it is that you believe and that's it. There's no way to state your convictions or opinions without sounding like you're trying to "persuade" ... I've never seen many of your posts not try to "persuade" ... see ? But I wouldn't have it any other way.
You have the freedom, right and obligation to try to persuade anyone, if you feel your conviction is from GOD. You feel yours are ... in fact ... even these posts on this thread are a form of "persuasion", including yours again.

We should be free to post our convictions/opinions and have others post theirs back at us, which will ALWAYS be a form of "persuasion" ... see ?

It's just that when we put "motives" in someone's heart of "why" they are posting what and why they are, that things get down right ugly.

We've all done it. I have too. Even with you almost two years ago now. I don't forget. I had to beg your forgiveness over a News article and stayed up past 9 am waiting here to see if you'd come on and forgive me. I don't forget when things like that happen.

This form of communication is so difficult PERIOD, without placing extra tension on "what" we post, nonetheless, how we "think" it sounds.

You carry a very strong type of authority in your posts and I cower sometimes from your posts and I'm sure there are those who feel the same about my posts, even you ... but if we all "met" each other, I know for certain that none of us would feel that "authority" from each other.

First, I'd like to take care of "my own-self" like I posted above and make that my only aim as far as my "attitude problem" until the Lord comes back.

I can't adjust others "attitudes" and they can't adjust mine, except through exceptance and love.

Hmmmm, I feel like I'm failing in words again and could be cuz I'm kinda of tired ... but I wouldn't take your right to try to persuade with your convictions for all the tea in the local Chinese restaurant, as long as you recognise that you do do that with most every post and give others the same freedom. We don't have to fight --- just permit freedom. If we allow more freedom, then there won't be as many Fights to gain back one's freedom of expression. Not as much "name calling" and the other sad things that happen between us. Also, to Trust God more for others who differ with us. Don't go on and on about things on every thread sort of thing, except maybe on the Love issue.

In your list above are a few issues where I've seen you even get angry with your convictions to those that are the opposite of yours ... and again ... I wouldn't change that or take that from you for all the tea at Aunt Sophie's house.
It's only when we try to take away the freedom of each man to have his own convicitions or opinions and to freely express them that the Fights start. Man wasn't built to work that way. Restraint is what drove the founding fathers here to begin with and write our bill of rights. Amen, hey ? :-D Let's cherish those rights while they're still here.... we'll miss these days with each and each-other one day maybe.

Love you brother. Happy "home" coming to you & your Bride.... Always.

Annie

S

sermonindex Jul 27, 2007

Wow. I have seldom seen such restraint on these forums. A true example. It’s hard, at times to let certain comments go by without remark, but if Krispy can do this…well…anything is possible.

Yes... it was one of my more profound utterences on this forum, wouldnt you say?

LOL...

Krispy

C

crsschk Jul 27, 2007

Lets have a day of repentence.
Let's start with me.
Lord, I repent for being upset at some of my brethren, and I repent for allowing myself to get caught up in debates and divisions that I should have ignored. Help me to be more focussed on edifying and encouraging my brethren, as well as being open to what others have to say. Help me to learn from my friends here at SI. Lead all of us into the truth.
Amen.

Thank you brother.

So what if someone hates George Bush, or hates Al Gore...? Find a forum that discusses politics and fight like Hannity & Colms all you want. Thats not why we're here. The internet is not lacking for political debate... dont bring it in here.

Precisely.

This forum used to be a sanctuary. A place where we could come and have healthy discussions. Every once in awhile we do lose focus and need to be brought back in and reminded of why we are here.

Indeed, that is what makes this all so grievous. There has always been these seasons where hostilities rise up and the reasons are just as various anything from newer members not truly knowing the manner and spirit back of these things to even the older longer tenured saints slipping, being caught up in things even when they think they are fixing them. To that part I must confess my own culpability and ask forgiveness.

The rarest thing, strangely enough is the lack of confession in these parts, I cannot help but wonder that no answer or no forthcoming of shortcomings is not one of the greatest problems extant. To move on and leave things trailing behind us ... At the same time independent conviction cannot be forced. From a moderator standpoint the large question or plea is just ~~[i]~~think[/i] ... ~~[i]~~pray[/i].

Somewhere I believe Krispy mentioned "That's human nature". And therein lies our problem, no?
We, filled with the Holy Spirit ... Jesus, before us, with us, in us. How might we see things differently if this was always before our conscious minds while we write and more importantly before we push that little button.
It is redundant to say, but used to strike me ironic and when given more heed to it, even profoundly; That little "Submit" button, to take notice of the response that comes back:

"Thanks for your submission!"

~~[i]~~Submission[/i]

Php 2:3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.

Just to break down this one verse;

Let nothing
be done
through strife or vainglory
but in lowliness of mind
let each esteem (the) other
better
than themselves

I am responding off the original post here from our brother Krispy and pray all these things might be taken to heart, well spoken my friend.

We are back quite a bit to some of the simpler matters noted in the "disclaimer", those that even a moderator needs care to recall. Asking questions and for clarifications rather than leveling charges or assuming accusations. Keep in mind not only that accountability to ~~[i]~~every word spoken[/i] before the Lord Himself ... (Is this not enough all on it's own?) But to each other and never to forget those eyes peering into these things, how many might have turned away due to our hostilities?

One last plea here. Please, please ~~[u]~~search[/u] this site, it's forum, the articles ... Remember S e r m o n Index, sermons and messages, the depth and untold riches lying dormant, hidden ... shoved off the main page. With that, something that has been a musing of late;

"Front page-itis"

It could be somewhat paradoxical but what I am appealing to is the momentum that seems to gather primarily around the continual controversial topics, it gives an 'appearance' that otherwise is only partial. It is an old suggestion but one of the great ways of discovery is to search back pages or postings that have 0 (zero) replies or maybe one or two. There are some possibly life altering things that get swallowed up because of that responsive nature ("human" again) in that rush to opinion. Things edifying and convicting, deep, penetrating spiritual truths, wonderful things, profound things and ...

Things that take time to process. Patience. We, of the book reading sort can become impatient with "longer" posts, some little trick of the brain that discards before assimilation. "~~[i]~~Ah, this is too long ... next, 'click' [/i]". But we can read whole chapters of a good book without a blink. Pace, the worlds pace, it is catching us up in it's whirlpool saints.

Holding our peace ...
Moving on ...
Allowing ourselves to be misunderstood ~~[i]~~and[/i] ...
Not retaliating or holding some foreign suspicion about each other.

Please, I plead, can we just put a complete stop to climbing into each others heads, telling each other what is really going on when we are still altogether so faulty all on our own?

The ~~[i]~~play the ball, not the man[/i] 'rule' is explicit for just these very reasons. No, we are not puppets nor robots nor playthings, but the level of offendeness, of being personally assumed or abused or some quasi combination of both is not becoming of cross carrying saints, ready to forgive before the asking, ~~[i]~~"walking as He walked[/i]", suffering misunderstandings, patiently 'taking things' even if they are not deserved. What of it? When it comes right down to it. The great problem it seems is that we can add to the trouble more than we know, giving offense just by way of so much defending, justifying ... and drawing things off ~~[i]~~away[/i] from the words written, the subject matter at hand, ~~[i]~~not the person[/i], not in 'totality', not by injecting suspicions of each other ...

2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Every high thing
Every thought
To the obedience
Of Christ

"~~[i]~~Thanks for your submission[/i]!"

The Lord is watching, the world might be just as well.

K

Koheleth Jul 27, 2007

"Front page-itis"
It could be somewhat paradoxical but what I am appealing to is the momentum that seems to gather primarily around the continual controversial topics, it gives an 'appearance' that otherwise is only partial. It is an old suggestion but one of the great ways of discovery is to search back pages or postings that have 0 (zero) replies or maybe one or two. There are some possibly life altering things that get swallowed up because of that responsive nature ("human" again) in that rush to opinion. Things edifying and convicting, deep, penetrating spiritual truths, wonderful things, profound things and ...

Personally, I believe SermonIndex could do more to promote the Christ-focused rather than topics-focused nature of this site by removing the front page list of recently posted-to threads. Why not have people go to the forum section that they choose? Why highlight the "recent" ("hot"?) threads. Why? I would humbly request a review of this policy to ask if it has Christ as its primary focus. Online forums, as we all generally know, are so rarely conducive to true Christianity. If the sermons, articles, and videos are where the real blessing of this site are, then de-emphasize the forums, but still have them as fully available through the forum section as they are now. Encourage people to refer to sermons and articles (site content) more than just debates and views. God bless all your work for Christ.

S

sermonindex Jul 27, 2007

I like the front page because if I'm involved in a fast moving thread I like being able to jump back in quick and easily... I dont want to have to fish around for it.

I know thats very practical, but I couldnt find a spiritual way to word that. :-)

Krispy

S

sermonindex Jul 27, 2007

yes and amen.

S

sermonindex Jul 27, 2007

There are some Forums out there that are more like a side-show. The largest Christian Forum out there is like that.
But SI doesn't do what they do, they purposely put the "hot topics" up on the homepage for just the reason we'd want to avoid at all costs, but the reason some of us have to use the Homepage to get caught up with the brothers & sisters is because of a time factor.

I don't think we're trusting GOD enough to be in things.

Who knows what young person may have benefitted by something they saw on the homepage. I know God has His Hand here, but we're just looking at each other right now. He's a big GOD and loves all and wants to touch all lives, not just ours.

Oh well, just my opinion, but because it's hard enough for me to get around here and I find that forum section on the homepage makes SI look "approachable" and not looking as if we're not human or here for other humans. Like a Church should be open to everyone and there should be something about that Church that makes it look open to humans.

Bless ya's.
Thank you!

S

sermonindex Jul 27, 2007

Does disagreement mean we do not have unity in the same purpose? Remember Paul had disputes but they had the same purpose.
Acts 15:2-3
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
KJV

Acts 15:37-39
37 And Barnabas determined to take with them John, whose surname was Mark.
38 But Paul thought not good to take him with them, who departed from them from Pamphylia, and went not with them to the work.
39 And the contention was so sharp between them, that they departed asunder one from the other: and so Barnabas took Mark, and sailed unto Cyprus;
KJV

Also Paul and Peter had exchanges.
Gal 2:9-18
9 James, Peter and John, those reputed to be pillars, gave me and Barnabas the right hand of fellowship when they recognized the grace given to me. They agreed that we should go to the Gentiles, and they to the Jews. 10 All they asked was that we should continue to remember the poor, the very thing I was eager to do.

11 When Peter came to Antioch, I opposed him to his face, because he was clearly in the wrong. 12 Before certain men came from James, he used to eat with the Gentiles. But when they arrived, he began to draw back and separate himself from the Gentiles because he was afraid of those who belonged to the circumcision group. 13 The other Jews joined him in his hypocrisy, so that by their hypocrisy even Barnabas was led astray.

14 When I saw that they were not acting in line with the truth of the gospel, I said to Peter in front of them all, "You are a Jew, yet you live like a Gentile and not like a Jew. How is it, then, that you force Gentiles to follow Jewish customs?

15 "We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' 16 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

17 "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not!

These discussions are some of same discussions that occur on SI. Even Peter and Paul had discussions.
Paul and Mark, they were all used by God.

So disagreements alone does not indicate we are not in unity.

C

crsschk Jul 27, 2007

Just to clarify a couple of things. The way the home page works is by 'design' and by that I do not mean intention, it came with the package so to speak.

It is part of the programming module that simply moves one post in at a time sequentially. This reply will be 'first' once I hit the submit button and goes on the top, thereby forcing everything else down one notch. There are only 15 available 'slots' in the main (home page) showing the forum section, so they just move sequentially through as others respond. So there is no real hierarchy or anything, it is just a mathematical calculation.

I would humbly request a review of this policy to ask if it has Christ as its primary focus. Online forums, as we all generally know, are so rarely conducive to true Christianity. If the sermons, articles, and videos are where the real blessing of this site are, then de-emphasize the forums, but still have them as fully available through the forum section as they are now. Encourage people to refer to sermons and articles (site content) more than just debates and views. God bless all your work for Christ.

Think part of this earlier expression (from Krispy) was to draw back to this Koheleth, "~~[i]~~Online forums, as we all generally know, are so rarely conducive to true Christianity.[/i]" We have tried very hard to keep that otherwise distinction and it is often a very difficult work, to have some patience and yet try to keep things geared somehow to first inceptions all the while having freedom to discuss a range of related questions, what have you.

To be honest I do not think what is needed is to deemphasize the forums, this has been a great source of putting ourselves to some real challenges ... We can be often much more freer in our expressions than we might face to face, which is also our present danger just as well. Our words do spell us, tell us, expose us ... How do we respond, will we make corrections ... are we teachable .. can we relent, re-think, repent ...?
be silent ...

Appreciate this and sure Greg more so, this is his site and really it is also in this small way open sourced to all of us ... we all make up the content of the forum and therefore are responsible, accountable to each other after the Lord.

There have been some tremendous things that have come through here, through the years, another reason to go back and do some digging. It really is up to us all and sometimes it is to do just this, pause and reflect, recalibrate ourselves ... Is what we bring up worth what might become of it? Is it moving us forward, along with the Lord ...

Encourage people to refer to sermons and articles (site content) more than just debates and views.

Indeed, that is what this whole forum was originally founded on, revival and learning all the aspects related and as byproduct of that.

B

BrokenOne Jul 27, 2007

crsschk said:
There have been some tremendous things that have come through here, through the years, another reason to go back and do some digging.

I just wanted to say amen to this. At times when I have trouble sleeping I have gone back to look at things that were posted years ago and found some real treasures.

R

Rahman Aug 1, 2007

Bro Krisp you wrote,
"But if I have done or said anything to encourage anyone here, let God get the glory... cuz I know the real me."

Sorry this took a while, and i hope you won't think it picky, or overboard, but i think it's an important detail ... i think what you really meant was you know the "old you" , that guy according to Rom. 6 who's now crucified with Christ (tho if he's anything like my old me he keeps on trying to get back down every once in a while :-( ) ...

The "real you" (me, and every other saint) according to 2Cor.5: 17 is now the "new creature/man" in Christ" - "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

Just wanted to share this in light of the fact that your statement set me on a contemplation of just what it really means for me to have the "holy spirit", meaning my actually, and consistently, manifesting the attributes of Holy Spirit in my everyday "real me" life in Christ - (But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
meekness, temperance) ... All that the "old me/us" ain't!

Blessings in Christ bro! ... :-D

S

sermonindex Aug 1, 2007

Re: Bro Krisp: The Real You or the Old You? ...

Hello again Rahman,

No, I'm not following you round the board.... and I'm glad you did post this. It's literally exactly - using Krispy's phrase as the example - what I was sharing with a sister earlier today.

i think what you really meant was you know the "old you"

Only, my point was that we are not 'channels only' but we ourselves are to be whole as Christ was whole - ~~[i]~~being[/i] changed in body, mind and soul by the Spirit ~~[i]~~while we serve Him[/i].

We are not just fleshly ~~[i]~~pipes[/i] through which the Holy Spirit flows when various circumstances are all lined up correctly and we 'feel' moved upon by Him, the rest of the time being free to do as we please.

Krispy, not for a moment am I attributing to you this mindset. 8-)

R

Rahman Aug 1, 2007

Sis Dorcas you wrote ...

"Only, my point was that we are not 'channels only' but we ourselves are to be whole as Christ was whole - being changed in body, mind and soul by the Spirit while we serve Him.
We are not just fleshly pipes through which the Holy Spirit flows when various circumstances are all lined up correctly and we 'feel' moved upon by Him, the rest of the time being free to do as we please."

--- Amen ... there's something going on in my spirit right now that's different from anything i've experienced in Him before ... a "re-focusing" as bro Krisp's thread suggest, or perhaps even a real focusing for the first time of who and what i am in this relationship, this marriage actually, and what exactly is the part i'm to implement in this partnership ... And so these two scriptures that i've read/heard a thousand times i'm hearing now something even deeper in them ...

1Cor.6
[15] Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
[16] What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
[17] But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
[18] Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that commiteth fornication sinneth against his own body.
[19] What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
[20] For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

2Cor.4
[1] Therefore seeing we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we faint not;
[2] But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
[5] For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake.
[6] For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ.
[7] But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
[10] Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
[11] For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

... in that Holy Spirit seems to be ministering to my spirit that the main function of our partnership with Him, to the glory and honor of our Groom Jesus Christ, and His/our Father, is to keep ourselves ever submitted and surrendered before Him via what the Word points out as our "reasonable service" and/or "reasonable behaviour" in many instances ... We are married to Christ, and so we owe Him spiritual "due benevolence" which unlike what is meant by this in the flesh, in the spirit means to me a "due" 24/7, and at all times ... And also since we know we have a tendency to slip every now and then in our spiritual reasonable "due", He's given us 1 John 1:9 ... You know there once was a time when holding every thought captive and "repenting" for every little thing was tedious to me, but now i caount it as a joy as i think this must be very pleasing to Christ, and equally as disturbing to any evil forces around me ... i used to read the scripture about how He was determined to finish His good work in me as something future, but now i see Him actually doing it in my present ... One thing i'm now sure of, i've made, and am making much more spiritual progress by just "submitting and surrendering" to the Word, than when i was trying to "fight" against it ... Submitting and surrendering have changed so many areas of my life from struggle, to freedom in Him ... There's much to be said for keeping what i call onself "clear before God" ... The power in earthen vessels has a much easier time of moving, and motivating us to do what He's hearing from heaven when we do waht the scriptures above say ...

i was speaking to a sister the other night who's having her share of troubles, and in the midst of the conversation she said to me, "You're the only Christian i know who's not going thru" (meaning some kind of extremely trying difficulty) ... It shocked me actually, made me praise God for bringing me to the realization that much of what we suffer we bring on ourselves, but sad also that so many are going thru (in my circle not much joy and exhortation going on) ... But there is so much to be said about not having ones attention set on earthly things, in trying ones best to please God, in seeking His kingdom and righteousness, and being concerned with storing up treasures in heaven ... i have to admit that even for this old saint, i'm embarrased to say that these things have just recently become this important to me say in the last 5 years ...

i believe God's up to something in all our lives, the Treasure and Power already within we earthen vessels, and all He mainly requires of us is that we keep ourselves ever surrendered
to Him that He can do His work thru us ...

It's just amazing to me my rememberance of just how easy satan's unholy spirit flowed thru me and out before i got saved, but the resistance i've put Him thru once He purchased me and His wanting to flow thru me and out with His goodness just as easy ... i find myself telling Him i'm sorry about that a lot now ...

Blessings in our indwealt treasure and Power sis! ...
:-D