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The Matthew 24 Watch

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brokenvessel

The Matthew 24 Watch
By Kato Mivule
April 17, 2005

Knowing the Times in which we live and Reading The Signs of the times has never been imperative and perpetual ignorance of the times we live is deadly and its effects is a lethal poison to all that we believe as Christians. Those who know the times will act wise but those who knowingly refuse to acknowledge the times we live, the fruits are very clear…far from those of The Holy Spirit. A correlation can be clearly seen between those who read the signs of our times as command by Jesus and a strong a vibrant spiritual life; while those who out of procrastination, stupor, and impertinence reject to Watch as Jesus commanded, live lives governed by sin and cares of this world. In other words, show me a man who engages in The Lord’s Watch and I will show you a Christian seeking to please God or show me a man who out of lethargy rejects the Watch of The Lord and I will show you the most carnal Christian. An evil spirit of lethargy and procrastination has taken over a many saints and kept many from the True Watch that The Lord Jesus Christ COMMANDED all those who love Him to do. This has been partly due to End-time teachers who have painted a picture of Jesus Christ coming to secretly ‘Rapture’ His church away…not mentioning the Left Behind Series. As such many Christians are simply waiting for the mystical wind to come and take them out of this world and escape its troubles—Escapism Theology. The lives of such Christians is very evident, the fruits are very clear… I have noticed over and over again that Christians in such a mindset always don’t care about their spiritual lives but continue to be blinded by Left Behind series and Purpose Driven messages…supposing not calamity will befall them but somehow they will be raptured away and escape the tribulations coming to test all men. Secondly I believe that the bible was not written for ‘experts’ with PhDs, those who can only understand ‘Eschatology’ or the ‘Study of End-Times’. Reading through the letters of the Apostles I don’t find any letter was written to ‘experts’. The letters were to be read in home group settings, mainly composed of poor Christians being persecuted and killed by Rome. Anyone there could understand what Jesus Christ was saying. Those who continue to profit from End-time ministries also add insult to the injury. These groups claim to have the full knowledge of End-Time Events but deny other Christians access to such material unless they pay for it. As I have written before such actions have consequences…unless these teachers repent and turn away from such evil…their destiny is well determined. Watching as the Bible teaches also has implications. There are actions to be taken. You cannot claim to Watch and not take any action. Good Watchers are those who are also good at doing The Commandments of The Lord. Their lifestyles are not driven by current trends in the world but governed by God. So in our Apostate Christian Generation, many refuse to Watch not because they don’t know what to do but because they are afraid God will command a change of their lifestyles…that they no longer walk according to the blueprints of this world. Due to procrastination, some Christians put off The Watch of The Lord to go enjoy the goodies of this world one more time. Then there are those who claim to ‘Watch’ but only watch to see things that will please those who hire them to do so. These are the Positive Possibility Thinkers…who suppose that The Lord will conquer the earth through their positive influence…therefore they imagine a dominion of theirs here on earth and focus wholly on building magnificent kingdoms and taking over nations to extend rule and dominion of the American Church. These things and many more led to the sin of procrastination, lethargy, and eventually full blown sin in the churches and Christians who fail to see any Redemption from Christ Jesus but eventually end up loving the world or inviting the World back into their churches and lives…Not Watching! Also there is a group of Christians who think that ‘Watching’ is some mystical ‘thing’ that is supposed to be left for the ‘Prophets’ or those with ‘Prophetic’ Anointing. However, if you have your Bible and read it diligently, that is enough for you to Watch through God’s perspective as written in His Holy Word. Jesus Christ Himself categorically COMMANDED His disciples to Watch and Pray. Jesus goes ahead to tell us the consequences of NOT Watching. In this article I take an endeavor to look at what Jesus meant by Watching and also the consequences of not watching. Definitions…According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary the word ‘watch’ means to: Keep Vigil as a devotional exercise, to be awake during the night, to be attentive or vigilant, to keep guard, to keep someone or something under close observation, to observe as a spectator and to be expectant. The Greek New Testament word for ‘Watch’ that Jesus Christ uses in Matthew 24 is ‘Gregoreuo’…Strong’s number 1127 and used a total of 23 times in the New Testament. ‘Gregoreuo’ has a meaning of…give strict attention, be cautious, active, to take heed lest through remission (decrease, cutback) and indolence (lethargy, stupor, sluggishness) some destructive calamity suddenly overtake one. Looking at the definitions here gives us more clarity. The Merriam-Webster dictionary definition I like is to ‘keep guard’ and ‘be awake during the night’, both definitions take action and really don’t give room for any entertainment or laziness. However, The dictionary adds some humor to the definitions (depends on how you take it)…’to observe as a spectator’…looks like many Christians are turning into spectators than doers of the Word of God that Calls All His people to Watch. What some Christians call watching is simply being a spectator. We love to read and contemplate on how Early Church Christians suffered for Jesus Christ or how Christians in Sudan and China are suffering for Christ but when our turn comes to Watch, we flee and hide. We procrastinate, we push it to the next generation thinking these sayings of Jesus Christ will happen in 30 years, maybe when we are dead or raptured away; and thus we remain indifferent. The Greek definition now opens our minds and hearts to what Jesus Christ was saying in His Word. ‘Gregoreuo’ which is the Greek word for “Watch” give us the following…
Give Strict Attention to
Be Cautious
Active
To Take Heed Lest Through Remission and Indolence some Destructive Calamity Suddenly overtakes you.
Of course ‘Remission’ meaning a decrease or a cutback And ‘Indolence’ meaning Lethargy, Stupor, Sluggishness, Apathy, Slowness, Indifference, Lack of Concern, Lack of Interest, Languor, Laziness, sleepiness, and unresponsiveness. All the above words are a characteristics of many Christians today who really show a lack of concern and such apathy to The Words Of Our Lord Jesus Christ and as such the lack of Watching and Self inflicted blindness, especially in America were riches and wealth take precedence over Jesus Christ’s matters. If any of those words appear in any area of your life or if you take any area of God’s Word with such attitudes of any of those above words, then certainly you are not watching. So we see Jesus Christ warning us of all these things and that we are to keep watch. We truly live in a dark world and we are to watch through the night until The Master comes. Why was Jesus Christ so adamant with His disciples to watch (Gregoreuo)? Is watching today a serious matter in the ‘Church’ or Christian circles? If we watch what should we watch for anyway? What are the consequences of not watching? Some people think watching as a Jesus Christ mentioned it was simply praying. Again looking through the Book of Mark, Jesus Christ cautions with such seriousness for His disciples to watch. Lack of seriousness and lethargy in our Christian churches has caused us not to watch but be taken over by a spirit of stupor or sluggishness in the things of the Lord. Jesus commands every one to watch…all those who love him, not just some who are interested in what theologians have termed as ‘eschatology’ to further blind the saints of God with lingo from not knowing what is to come and thus the blindness of the times in which we live. Watch in Context of Matthew 24...However, we must also remember The Context in which Jesus mentions this word ‘ Watch’. We find that the first mention is in Matthew 24: 42 Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. The context had to do with The End-Times. It had to do with what Jesus Christ was describing to His disciples in Matthew Chapter 24. There cannot be a True Watching when we exclude Prophesy from the bible or misunderstand it, or worse like many do today show a lack of concern but endeavor ironically to spend millions of dollars by reading “Left Behind” books. In other Words Jesus Christ’s Coming and The End of Ages as described in Matthew Chapter 24 will greatly affect our spiritual lives if we act on those words to WATCH. This will greatly help with growth of our spiritual lives if we do Watch properly as described in The Context of Matthew 24. Many Christians don’t want this because they still enjoy their comfy lives…especially in America. As such we have hypocritical Christians who pretend to say thy watch through prayer and just reading God’s word but endeavor to skip all of Matthew 24 and all Prophesy on End Times just because things don’t line up well with their comfy Laodicean self-indulgent lifestyles. So they amass teachers who teach things they love to hear and write books on end times they can find easily at Wal-Mart and have nothing disrupt the comfy of their lives. That is were we got all these “Left Behind” Theologies and “Secret Rapture” now series…lack of Watching…yes Watching is hard work…no laziness…it means you refuse to become indifferent…you refuse to become sluggish and you reject the repugnancy of modern day Christianity and all the self indulgency in Christendom. Current Political Evangelicalism is due to Lack of Matthew 24 Watch…The Matthew 24 ‘Watch’ has to do with seeing Jesus Christ as The Only King of kings and Lord of Lords who will come to set things in order. The Matthew 24 ‘Watch’ has to do with us putting our hope and trust not in princes but in Jesus Christ who will come in all His Glory and every eye will see Him. The reasons we Christians in America placed our hope in GW Bush is because we rejected The Matthew 24 Watch. Yes, many Christians blindly voted for the Neo-con Illuminati because they were not keen on the Matthew 24 watch and rejected it and or simply became indifferent and showed a Lack of concern, stupor, apathy and sluggishness, so as to protect their riches and comfy lives, hoping a ‘Christian’ President will help protect their ‘Christian’ Rights. They placed their hope and trust in princes in whom there is no help… Psalms 146: 3 3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. Again looking at the Greek word for ‘Watch’, Gregoreuo, it has to do with watching so as not to be suddenly taken over by destructive calamities. Jesus Christ was clearly warning His disciples that if they would not watch then sudden, unexpected calamities would over take them…the thief in the night would come to them unaware. Certainly those who are wise in our times will take on the Matthew 24 Watch. Looking at a few scriptures were 'Gregoreuo' is used in the New Testament… Matthew 24:42…Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. Matthew 24:43…But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watch ed, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Matthew 25:13…Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. Matthew 26:38 …Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me. Matthew 26:40…And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour? Matthew 26:41…Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. Mark 13:34…For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Mark 13:35…Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Mark 13:37…And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. Mark 14:34…And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch. Luke 12:37…Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watch ing: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. Luke 12:39…And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watch ed, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. 1Corinthians 16:13…Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong. Colossians 4:2…Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving; 1Thessalonians 5:6…Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. 1Peter 5:8…Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: Revelation 3:2…Be watch ful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Revelation 3:3…Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Revelation 16:15…Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watch eth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. The Coming of The Lord Watch... Matthew 24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. Certainly ‘Watch’ has to do with The Coming of The Lord Jesus Christ as shown in the scriptures above. Matthew 24 is very troubling to those who hold to a ‘Left Behind’ Series Theory, in part because there is no escapism in Matthew 24 anyway, it looks like Jesus Christ simply tells His disciples what they will have to go through…very difficult times. Many people try to insert ‘The Secret Rapture’ here and there in Matthew 24 but it all fails to fit in. The Saint’s redemption is clear at the end when Jesus Christ comes in His Glory...so clear that any serious believer would understand and do the command of The Lord to Watch till He comes through the troubled times Jesus speaks about in Matthew 24. We are certainly to watch for all the signs Jesus Christ mentions in this chapter and never ignore them. Those who do ignore these signs are only drinking from the devils cup of deceit and stupor, being blinded at the Lord’s Coming and as such sudden destructive calamities will overtake them unaware. The Prayer Watch...It also has to do with Prayer but in context that we will not be tempted by the evil one to sin and thus become sluggish, indifferent and lukewarm as such sudden destructive calamities and The Lord’s Coming take us unaware because of our sinful behaviors. This type of Watch has to do with our daily relationship with Jesus Christ. It has to do with seeking God’s Will and Knowing The Lord’s Heart and doing as He pleases. We must remember that all this has to do with our anticipation to meet Jesus Christ and be with Him forever. Rebellious Christians who have no eagerness to see Jesus Christ will have a shallow prayer life often characterized with praying for material things like new cars, houses, jobs, and more material blessings as is evident today in many American and Westernized Churches. The Matthew 24 Prayer Watch has also to do with asking God for strengths to go through what was coming. Jesus Christ in Luke 21 emphatically stresses this Prayer Watch… Luke 21:34-36 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. It is important to also note the things Jesus Christ commands us to watch and be careful about in these times we live as mentioned in the Luke 21:34-36 piece of scripture above…
Take heed to your selves…
Lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with...
Surfeiting
Drunkenness
Cares of this life
And so the day comes upon you unawares
Jesus Christ fore saw the times in which we live were men only care for their stomachs and mammon. There has never been such a materialistic society in history as we evidence the fall of America to the Spirit of vicious greed and materialism. Jesus Christ however, warned us to watch that the cares of this life should not blind us at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. So we see Jesus Christ commands His disciples to pray for strength so as to…
Be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass
And to stand before the Son of man
Any True Christian Prayer Watch has to engage in The Matthew 24 Watch…Now I find it satirical that many so-called Watch Ministries get entangled with watching what types of demons live in their city or town, however the Watch that The Lord commanded His people in Luke 21:34-36 is totally ignored. It is a waste of time and energy doing all spiritual mapping to take over cities and yet totally ignore The Lord’s Watch as in Matthew 24. You can spiritual map all you want but if you ignore The Matthew 24 Watch of The Lord, the Devil has then succeeded in diverting you from The Lord’s Watch. It is also very difficult if you prescribe to the “Left Behind” and “Secret Rapture” theories to ever engage in such prayer for endurance and perseverance, and checking one’s lifestyle so as not to be caught up in the drunkenness and stupor of this world. The reason is because such theories believe you are to reign as a king here on earth and then be raptured away secretly before disaster comes…Dominionism Theology. However, it is more imperative than ever that we begin to ask God for strength to endure the days coming ahead and that we never get caught up in the desires of this world. The Word of God should be a Light to us to search our hearts that no evil or goodies of this world capture any area of our lives. Those who reject this type of watch will insolently live a type of Christianity that enjoys the drunkenness, stupor, and cares of this world. Such Christians will be caught unaware. For calamity will come upon them like a snare. I am afraid than many American Christians and those who love Laodicean westernized Christianity fall in this category and choose to refuse to watch. The tribulations coming ahead will require special strength from God for His saints to help them endure. You are not going to stand by mere stubbornness and reject the onslaught of the anti-Christ forces, which are already at work. It is going to take the Holy Spirit Strength and not man made strength. There are Christians who think this is just another joke and take such warnings with flippancy. They claim they are ready to die for Christ but have no real insight of what is coming ahead. I have heard some claims that it is easy to die for Christ but very hard to live for Christ. Such Christians though are right with the latter but are dead wrong with the former. It is going to take Strength from The Holy Spirit when they try to reprogram your brain to accept the anti-Christ…not mere doggedness. I will warn you that begin to ask God for strength to endure what is coming. It is going to be so horrible…the greatest tribulation ever in history. So you are going to need strength that comes from The Holy Spirit to overcome and not just mere stubbornness. Jesus Christ was very serious when He commanded us to pray so as to endure and escape these times. So any Prayer Watch that is of The Lord cannot ignore The Matthew 24 Watch that Jesus Commanded. If it does, I suggest that should be a red flag for you to begin asking questions. Those who claim another watch other than The Lord’s Watch, certainly Watch in vain and the Bible is clear about that… Psalms 127:1 1 Except the LORD build the house, they labour in vain that build it: except the LORD keep the city, the watchman waketh but in vain. So mere Watching that neglects the Prophetic Scriptures, End-Times and The Coming of Jesus Christ is a Watch in Vain. I know this is a very hard saying especially those who engage in Intercessory ministries and Prayer Warriors…certainly if your Watch ignores The Coming of The Lord Jesus Christ, you Watch in vain. It would be worthless going on every street in your City and mapping all demons that live on every tree top but ignore the Prophetic End time Watch that Jesus Christ Commanded. The ‘Not Fall into Temptation’ Watch…While Jesus was agonizing in deep prayer before He was crucified, He commanded the disciples to Watch with Him. He found them asleep and commanded that they at least Watch an hour with him. He told them to Watch so as not to get into temptation. Trouble times where coming ahead. Jesus Christ knew he had to endure very worse times ahead and was Watching and praying for strength to endure what was coming His way. Jesus Christ did not ask for a ”Secret Rapture” to escape what was coming but simply prayed that The Father’s will be done. The disciples of course in the flesh, decided to sleep on. True to Jesus’ words did His hour of tribulation come. One thing after another and Peter is fighting with swords…fighting in flesh and blood. But we remember Jesus had warned them that they needed to pray so as not to be taken by the temptations that were coming ahead. This was not a battle in the Flesh but a Spiritual one…Jesus was to overcome the Devil on The Cross. The same warnings go out to the Church today. Sadly to say, in The West, Especially America and its Laodicean Christianity, we have not heeded to the Commandment of The Lord to Watch and not fall into temptation in these perilous times. It is interesting that the Greek word that Jesus Christ used in the Garden of Gethsemane is the same word ‘Gregoreuo’…The disciples were warned to stay alert, awake, not allow stupor, drunkardness, sleepiness, Lack of concern, indifference, apathy, lukewarmness, so as not to be overcome by sudden calamities. The disciples slept, when the hour of testing came, Peter resorted to the flesh with guns blazing…or should I say with swords blazing and cutting off someone’s ear. This is the present day church. We have resorted to flesh and blood. We have resorted to a dominionism gospel of flesh and conquest. There is almost no difference between an evangelical American Christian today and the crusaders…they all believe in dominionism, with violence in order to extend what they think is God’s kingdom. Some of today’s American Evangelicals believe in torture of those out of paranoia they think are terrorists. We have Christians today who believe that Missiles and bombs will help extend the kingdom of God. The clear appalling example was when so-called evangelical Christians supported GW Bush and his so-called war on terror in Iraq in hunt for purported weapons of mass destruction. It turned out that all this was based on lies and deceit and to amazement Christians still voted to uphold the Neo-con agenda of Violence, bloodshed, and Oil loot in the Middle East in the name of Freedom. However, the fall into such temptation came as a result of rejecting The Matthew 24 Watch of our Lord Jesus Christ that only sees hope and redemption at the Coming of Jesus Christ. Christians in America resorted to war and bloodshed to free countries, some even claimed that America was right in attacking Iraq so they could go and preach the gospel in these ‘heathen’ nations…lack of watching! So American laodicean Christians even to this day refuse any rebuke and hate and disparage all who stand to correct them but continue to support a regime in America that supports torture, murder, looting oil, bombing innocent civilians, and much more…all in the name of dominionism and extending what they call God’s kingdom. I warn all who read this article as I have always done before that such so-called Christians who continue to support, such Neo-con State sponsored atrocities against other nations while hiding behind the Holy Name of Jesus Christ are not true Christians but dogs, sorcerers, murderers, idolaters, lovers of lies and practice lies (support liars) and such have no part in God’s Kingdom…unless they REPENT, their destiny is clear…HELL and THE LAKE OF FIRE… Revelations 22:14-15 14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. 15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. So if your ‘Patriotism’ is causing you to sin, and engage in, or help others murder, torture, warmonger, then repent and turn to Jesus Christ, He is greater than your image of Patriotism. Remember you will stand alone before Jesus Christ, GW Bush will not stand with you, neither did he force you to support his wars for oil and you know it. Fear God and not man…repent; be zealous and serve Christ alone. It is very clear the Lord calls us to watch so as not to fall into temptation when the tribulation times or the hour of our testing comes. Not only are we to Watch against State sponsored sin but any sin in our lives certainly. I challenge anyone to re-read Matthew 24 prayerfully with ‘Watch’ in mind. The Matthew 24 ‘Signs of the Time’ Watch…Jesus gave the signs in Matthew 24 that I believe should be easy for anyone to follow and know that we truly live in the end times. Many people have been lead to believe that this chapter is beyond their comprehension…those that read it turn it into debates of when the ‘rapture’ would occur but don’t want to deal with scriptures that call Christians to endure and persevere. However, Jesus gave us many hints that we need to seriously Watch if we are to engage in the Matthew 24 Watch of The Lord. For instance earthquakes are happening at a very higher rate than they used to previously, we all witnessed the Tsunami earthquake if you are still alive. Many Christians especially in the West go ahead and ignore such signs and give silly reasons as to why they do. They pretend that they are not to worry or be anxious, they comfort themselves in a false security…if you think so, then you are being fooled and blinded by Satan himself. Jesus Christ was clear of such behavior and called such people who cannot read the signs of the times hypocrites. This category of lazy Christians can interpret the stock market and weather patterns but flippantly with procrastination ignore the Geo-physical signs of our times. Matthew 16:1-3 1 The Pharisees also with the Sadducees came, and tempting desired him that he would shew them a sign from heaven. 2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. 3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times? We are called to Watch for those signs too...it is a command from Christ Jesus. I do have a Geo-Physical Blog I follow that keeps scientific records of these Geo-Physical signs Jesus Christ told us about, you can take a look and Watch… http://www.markswatson.com/yellowstone.html The Responsibility To Watch, a COMMANDMENT from Jesus Christ…Now we know that the Responsibility to Watch is not just for some few believers but Jesus commanded his disciples and told ALL of them to Watch. Truly we live in perilous times and these are the last days, we cannot afford to sleep and stay blind. The early church knew that they had to keep watch. Peter writes his epistle to the saints and reminds them to Watch. If early church saints had such a sense of urgency to Watch, almost 2000 years ago, then what about we Christians today? Why do we hide from The End time Prophetic Watch of The Lord Jesus Christ? Truly if we fail or have no growth in this area of our lives then the fruits will be manifest in other areas, we begin to slowly accept the dominionism gospel and see our selves as citizens of the earth and not Citizens of heaven. Mark 13:37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch. 1 Peter 4:7 7 But the end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer. 2 Timothy 4:7 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. 1 Corinthians 16:13 13 Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong. Blessings for those whom The Lord Finds Watching…Certainly there are blessings for all who Watch and engage in The Lord’s Watch. The blessings am speaking about don’t have to do with money but have everything to do with your spiritual state before The Lord. Blessings these days are confused with money and material gain but I am speaking about the Blessings of your growth in relationship to Jesus Christ. The evil spirits that reign on this world do not blind you but you are blessed because you await the salvation that comes from Jesus Christ and not man. Your eyes behold Jesus and are fixed on Him and not the cares, worries, and burdens of Life. You are blessed to be counted worthy to suffer for Christ Jesus and to truly love and worship Him, anticipating the day you will be with him forever and ever. Proverbs 8:34 34 Blessed is the man that heareth me, watching daily at my gates, waiting at the posts of my doors. 35 For whoso findeth me findeth life, and shall obtain favour of the LORD. 36 But he that sinneth against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death. Luke 12:37-40 37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. 40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. Consequences of Not Watching…For those who refuse to Watch, certainly the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the Night. It will be like a snare to all who refuse to watch. Sudden calamity will strike many Christians who reject the watch of the Lord. Now, does that mean it has to do with your salvation if you refuse to Watch? Certainly that is what the Bible says, that is what Jesus Christ said…that if you fail to Watch then there would be consequences… Revelation 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watch eth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. Luke 12:39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watch ed, and not have suffered his house to be broken through Luke 12:36-44 36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38 And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39 And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through. 40 Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not. 41 Then Peter said unto him, Lord, speakest thou this parable unto us, or even to all? 42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season? 43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath. 45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; 46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. Lack of Watching Means Portion with Unbelievers... So for all who reject God’s Call on His People to Watch can rest be assured of having their portion with unbelievers and be cut asunder. For the ‘Feel good’ message lovers and those who think I am ‘harsh’, these are not my words, they are of Jesus Christ. Certainly you will have your portion with unbelievers cause the Lord will come at a time when you don’t expect Him. One thing the bible is clear about is that Hell and the Lake of fire and the wrath of God will be upon those who don’t believe in God and all those who hate and are rebellious against God and His Holy One…certainly no one with working common sense would love to have their portion with unbelievers…simply because they refused and rejected The Matthew 24 Watch of The Lord. Tools for Watching…Every saint in Christ Jesus should arm themselves with the most powerful tools to help keep The Lord’s Watch. It does not take a PhD as some end time and ‘prophetic’ pundits depict it to be. Many Christians have not kept the Watch of The Lord because some so-called experts in the End Time prophesy claim that it is too difficult to understand What Jesus Christ was saying as concerns the last days. Many of these so-called prophesy teachers try to make it harder for believers to understand end times because they want you to buy all their books and stop reading the bible for your self…its all about money. 1)The Word of God…The best source and tool in the Watch of The Lord is His True and Holy Word. Simply reading the bible and looking at all that is going on in our current world in Light of what the Word of God says. The word of God is not biased as your local CNN or Fox News Channels. If you happen to read the book of Hosea or Habakkuk you should have no problems seeing America in light of God’s Word and how we are no different from the people Hosea and Habakkuk prophesied about. Most people will get to this point, however they are then held back by false patriotism and love of so-called freedoms that don’t exist…they find it very disturbing that God could judge America just like Hosea and Habakkuk prophesied. However, to the wise, look at things the way God sees them through His Word. Secondly, The Word of God will help shine light in areas of our lives that need to be subjected to The Lord’s will. God’s Word will help us deal with those areas in our lives that are being burdened by materialism and all cares of this life that Jesus warned us to Watch for. So I challenge all Christians, rather than Watch the so-called conservative Fox News channel, read your bible…watch God’s Channel—God’s Word. Read Psalms 119 and you won’t be surprised with another 911… Psalms 119:11-16 11 Thy word have I hid in mine heart, that I might not sin against thee. 12 Blessed art thou, O LORD: teach me thy statutes. 13 With my lips have I declared all the judgments of thy mouth. 14 I have rejoiced in the way of thy testimonies, as much as in all riches. 15 I will meditate in thy precepts, and have respect unto thy ways. 16 I will delight myself in thy statutes: I will not forget thy word. 2)The Leading of Holy Spirit…As you engage in the Matthew 24 Watch of The Lord, allow The Holy Spirit to guide and lead you. The Holy Spirit is God and not just some force or power like some Christians would like to portray, that you could command Him anytime you wish to do this and that miracle for you. We have engaged in such stupidity and childishness simply because we have no Revelation of Who The Holy Spirit is. Any Watch with no leading and guidance of The Holy Spirit is a waste of time and energy; you might as well watch a movie. The Holy Spirit will always lead you to Truth in God’s Word. He will truly convict of sin and judgment to this world. The Holy Spirit will also comfort you, especially during the Tribulation periods we have entered in. The early church experienced this comfort but, during times of persecution in the book of Acts. So I am not speaking of Western American comforts, those are not real, they are synthetic, many people who have all the riches and comfort they enjoy, are very depressed in America and no wonder, America is the largest consumer of anti-depressant drugs. However, The Holy Spirit Comfort is authentic and we are going to need a lot of that in the days coming ahead, when persecution against the saints intensifies. When they kill your family while you watch because you love Jesus Christ, you will need genuine comfort from The Holy Spirit in such times. John 16:6-14 6 But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart. 7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. 8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 Of sin, because they believe not on me; 10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; 11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. 12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. 13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 3)Prayer… Unquestionably prayer is not to be taken lightly like we do today. Again Prayer in context with God’s will and The Lord’s Watch that we fall not into temptation and that God will give us grace to endure the tough times coming ahead. Prayer again these days has been turned into some magic by Christians who think they can get new cars, wives, husbands, jobs and all material goods. However, prayer in these last days has to do with seeking God’s Will, and asking for strength to persevere and endure. Prayer has to do with asking God for an outpouring of His grace on men and women that they will repent and turn to the Lord, that God will grant boldness with signs and wonders to His servants as they proclaim God’s Word fearlessly in these end times. We need such boldness and wisdom that comes only from God to proclaim His word in these last days accompanied with signs, wonders and miracles…just like in the early church as we preach repentance and God’s coming Kingdom to all men. Matthew 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak Colossians 4:6 Continue in prayer, and watch in the same with thanksgiving; Luke 21:36 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. Jesus Christ’s Commandment to us is serious and great emphasis that we pray. It is surprising that many Western Pastors take prayer lightly. However, for us to endure what is coming ahead we are going to need very serious prayers. I am not speaking just of a few ‘gifted’ prayer worriers…you will need to learn how to pray to endure what is coming. Jesus Christ did His part before He was crucified on the cross. He prayed as the disciples slept and certainly God strengthened Him to endure the cross. Now the time is ours to endure the greatest tribulation ever, we are going to need all the prayers we can ever get. I know many Christians take such warnings with frivolity but that times are indeed upon us and we are to Watch and Pray more than before. When they arrest you and throw you into jail and torture you, you will not endure by your mere stubborn heart but you will have to endure with strength from Jesus Christ Himself. Many times I tremble and shake at what is coming, when God reveals a little to me, none of us will boast of merely saying that we can die for Christ out of our own strength…such talk is likened to Peter saying he would die with Jesus Christ on the Cross but when that time came to crucify Jesus, he was no where to be found but denied The Lord three times…begin now when things are still a little bit okay to pray that you will endure what is coming ahead…that God will strengthen you and you will have boldness from Him to proclaim His Word fearlessly with signs and wonders as God confirms His word., and when the time comes for you to be tortured or beheaded for Christ you will have strength to endure. As the Lord Jesus Christ Says so I say to you WATCH. Your Brother In Christ JesusKato Mivule

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WOW!

What confirmation!

Blessings

Jeannette

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brokenvessel wrote:
This is the present day church. We have resorted to flesh and blood. We have resorted to a dominionism gospel of flesh and conquest. There is almost no difference between an evangelical American Christian today and the crusaders…they all believe in dominionism, with violence in order to extend what they think is God’s kingdom. Some of today’s American Evangelicals believe in torture of those out of paranoia they think are terrorists. We have Christians today who believe that Missiles and bombs will help extend the kingdom of God. The clear appalling example was when so-called evangelical Christians supported GW Bush and his so-called war on terror in Iraq in hunt for purported weapons of mass destruction. It turned out that all this was based on lies and deceit and to amazement Christians still voted to uphold the Neo-con agenda of Violence, bloodshed, and Oil loot in the Middle East in the name of Freedom. However, the fall into such temptation came as a result of rejecting The Matthew 24 Watch of our Lord Jesus Christ that only sees hope and redemption at the Coming of Jesus Christ. Christians in America resorted to war and bloodshed to free countries, some even claimed that America was right in attacking Iraq so they could go and preach the gospel in these ‘heathen’ nations…lack of watching! So American laodicean Christians even to this day refuse any rebuke and hate and disparage all who stand to correct them but continue to support a regime in America that supports torture, murder, looting oil, bombing innocent civilians, and much more…all in the name of dominionism and extending what they call God’s kingdom. I warn all who read this article as I have always done before that such so-called Christians who continue to support, such Neo-con State sponsored atrocities against other nations while hiding behind the Holy Name of Jesus Christ are not true Christians but dogs, sorcerers, murderers, idolaters, lovers of lies and practice lies (support liars) and such have no part in God’s Kingdom…

moe_mac
Much truth about Matt 24. Jesus is the way, the truth and the life. But while we watch and HIS WORD says to be at peace with everyone if possible, Jesus told us these things must take place. We would see wars and rumors of wars. These things must take place.

Now I don't want to get political, but what if we had chosen the other guy or what if she/he is chosen this next time. Will we then, see the abomination of desolation spoken by the phophet Daniel then or are we seeing it now? I don't know, I am asking not making a statement. Will we then after we get rid of George Bush be right smack dab in the middle of God's will in everything, on abortion, homosexual marriage, what's God got to with it attitude. My faith is not in George Bush, but my faith is in Jesus Christ and it is certainly is not in someone that has the attitude of condoning sin and saying , what has God go to do with it, some say oh, well sin doesn't matter, we have our constitutional rights that superceed God's ways. I am not at all satisfied with our nations devotion to the Lord now and back as far since 40 years ago when I look back on our American history I am not at all pleased with our laws being Godly. The laws are determined by the heart of the majority. It is the heart that matters.
There was much truth in Matt 24 and in your post, and our faith needs to be and should be only in Our Lord Jesus Christ. I was enjoying reading the post until I got to the political part. As I said in an earlier post somewhere, all these people that are complaining about the war on terror, and not a one them in their right mind can argue that there is not a large group of terrorist trying to do much harm to both America and Israel and many others including there own people. These same people who are complaining about our nations defense against terrorism, I don't see any of them organizing a group and trying to dismantle their local and all police police departments in congress or anywhere else and when roll over when the thugs come to their house to steal, kill and destroy, just say we don't need to police, just do as you please with my family. I don't see these whinners really striving in that direction domestically and to do away with their police protection for them and their family. A double standard so to speak. We could save a ton of money dismantling the nation's police department. That's what about half the America people say, we need not spend that money protecting those people we don't even know and lose soldiers in the process. We lose police officers everyday. They talk out of both sides of their mouth. I did not intend on being contentional with all your post, just the political portion.


In our Blessed Hope Jesus

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brokenvessel,

This is a very truthful article of the condition of American Christendom. It is very sad when the mere mention of a man, George Bush, Fox News, CNN, and American Dominionism, makes this to some a political article.
American Christians are so in love with themselves, that they actually believe they put men in the Whitehouse.
They truly believe that war spreads the love of Jesus Christ and the killing of women and children is an acceptable price for spreading this love.
They believe the world could not exist without them and they will do anything to keep the good life no matter what the cost.
They are more concerned about issues of this world then they are about the eternal damnation of souls.
Why, because they all believe they have arrived and God is so in love with them that He is coming to rapture them into a heavenly bliss which they truly believe they deserve.

You are wasting your time and the time of American Christians with such articles as long
As they really believe they are putting leaders in office and they are deciding what or who is running their country and this world.
You see, they don’t see…

Rev. 17:17
For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

Romans 13:1
Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Daniel 4:17
This matter is by the decree of the watchers, and the demand by the word of the holy ones: to the intent that the living may know that the most High ruleth in the kingdom of men, and giveth it to whomsoever he will, and setteth up over it the basest of men.

Thank you brokenvessel for your sincere effort to turn our hearts, may those who have ears, Hear.
Will there be any faith when HE returns?
Only in those who Watch!

In His Love
pastorfrin

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pastorfrin

A warning, a warning has been given, many warnings have been given, but will they who are blind see? Will they who are deaf hear?
Only if the Lord performs a miracle, to give them eyes that will see and ears that will hear. Pray for this now, pray with all your heart, seek the Lord while He may be found, seek Him with all your heart. Pray for strength that you may be able to Watch! Proclaim it from the house tops. WATCH!

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pastorfrin wrote:
A warning, a warning has been given, many warnings have been given, but will they who are blind see? Will they who are deaf hear?
Only if the Lord performs a miracle, to give them eyes that will see and ears that will hear. Pray for this now, pray with all your heart, seek the Lord while He may be found, seek Him with all your heart. Pray for strength that you may be able to Watch! Proclaim it from the house tops. WATCH!
[size=small]AMEN!!!!![/size]

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Googled Kato Mivule and found more ---

End Time Saints And The Call To Endure
By Kato Mivule


If you don’t endure to the end, you won’t be SAVED!
If you don’t abide in Jesus Christ, you will be cutoff and thrown into the Fire!

To The Lord’s Remnant…this is not the time to backslide and go back to Babylon and embracing the ways of Babylonian Christianity…this is a time to ENDURE and Persevere…

We are coming to a time when the Christian world is going to be SUDDENLY engulfed in very heavy persecutions as never before. There is going to be a worldwide HATE for all who love Jesus Christ.

I am not just being an alarmist here, however, if it requires that I should sound as an alarmist for you to awake , then so be it... The Lord has shown this to me over and over again, sudden and unexpected furious persecutions against the saints and it is at this juncture that I put out this message on endurance. World events are occurring at a very fast rate and news is hard to keep track of…evil is on a large increase everywhere.

However, Jesus Christ warned us about this time in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21. The Lord gave us the signs of the times and among these signs as we come to the close of this age are the heavy and vicious persecution of the Saints. This persecution comes suddenly and without warning…

I write this article in hope that is will encourage you and for those who are still “fellowshipping” in the Apostate Churches that preach health, wealth and a good life here on earth, I pray that this will be a wake up call for you…

Even as we see earthquakes... Tsunamis, drought, hate, Ethnic warfare, and all the Matthew 24 signs Jesus Christ spoke about, what is coming suddenly and unexpectedly very soon is the heavy persecution of the saints.

Prosperity will not come, health-wealth will not come, no Dominionism but the sudden and unexpected diabolical persecution of the saints…

I pray that these scriptures below will help prepare you to ENDURE…Jesus Christ commands that we MUST endure during this time of persecution and tribulation…We are called to Endurance. Don’t let any foolish and idiotic preacher or pastor tell you that you don’t have to worry, that all things will be as they have been…

The difference between the past persecutions and what is coming is that this persecution will be unique as Jesus Christ described it in Matthew 24, that is has never been nor will it ever happen again… It will involve the whole host of the demonic and not just people who hate Jesus Christ…it is going to be demonic hate targeted at those who love Jesus Christ…

It will involve the betrayal of the True Saints of God by those in today’s churches who are in love with the World…it will involve your Pastor handing you over to be killed, it will involve great betrayals by demon posed Pastors, Apostles, Bishops, etc as they turn against the sheep in their care…this will happen…now is the time to prepare yourself, your family and friends who will listen and tell them that God is calling us to endurance and suffering for Him…

Lets take a look at what Jesus Christ said would happen concerning Persecutions, Tribulation, and our call to endure…

>>We Notice here that Jesus Christ clearly mentioned that you will be:
Afflicted…
Killed…
Hated of ALL Nations for His Name Sake…
Many shall be offended…
Shall betray one another…(Christians in context here)
Hate one another…(Christians in context here)
And…many False Prophets shall arise…
And…deceive many…
And…because iniquity shall abound…
The love of many will grow cold…

>>It is in such a state of events that Jesus Christ is calling all True Christians to endurance…

>>Many Christians during these state of events will fall back and their love for Christ will grow cold, they will fall in the faith and become totally apostate…the reason is that they did not take HEED and Watch as Jesus Christ commanded us to do so…their pastors, apostles and bishops lied to them that all would be well and they later realize that the promised prosperity and “Enjoying Life Everyday” with Joyce Meyer is not what happened but real bloody persecutions…

>>Notice also that Jesus Christ says that ALL Nations will HATE YOU for my Name’s sake…it is going to be world wide…what causes this kind of hate? It is nothing short of Satan and his demons…it is going to be sudden and unexpected and very diabolical…

>>Jesus Christ commands that we MUST ENDURE to the End…we must stand, persevere, and be faithful to the end…

Matthew 24:9-12
(9) Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
(10) And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
(11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
(12) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.


Matthew 24:21-22
(21) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
(22) And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

Mark 13:9-13
(9) But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.
(10) And the gospel must first be published among all nations.
(11) But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.
(12) Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.
(13) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Luke 21:12-19
(12) But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.
(13) And it shall turn to you for a testimony.
(14) Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:
(15) For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.
(16) And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
(17) And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
(18) But there shall not an hair of your head perish.
(19) In your patience possess ye your souls.

>>Endurance is in context with persecution, tribulation, ill treatment, and great suffering of the Saints because they hold on to the Testimony of Jesus Christ. The hour has come that all who name themselves after The Name of Jesus Christ must endure the worldwide diabolical hate and persecution of the saints.

>>We must stand strong in The Lord Jesus Christ and hold onto our Faith in Him, we must hold onto His Truth and Abide in Him Alone...

>>So, we take a look at what endure means here from the Greek language to get a clear picture of what we must do as we obey The Lord’s COMMAND that we ENDURE…

G5278
ὑπομένω
hupomenō
hoop-om-en'-o
From G5259 and G3306; to stay under (behind), that is, remain; figuratively to undergo, that is, bear (trials), have fortitude, persevere: - abide, endure, (take) patient (-ly), suffer, tarry behind.

G5278
ὑπομένω
hupomenō
Thayer Definition:
1) to remain
1a) to tarry behind
2) to remain, i.e. abide, not recede or flee
2a) to preserve: under misfortunes and trials to hold fast to one’s faith in Christ
2b) to endure, bear bravely and calmly: ill treatments

>>We find some interesting definitions…
To stay under, that is remain…
To undergo trials…
To bear trials…
To have fortitude…(courage)
To abide…not recede or flee
To persevere…
To take patiently…
To suffer…
To tarry behind…
To preserve: under misfortunes and trials to hold fast to one’s faith in Christ
To endure, bear bravely and calmly: ill treatments
>>Remember that we cannot endure outside Jesus Christ…interestingly is that one of the definitions for the word ‘Endure’ is to abide…so we can only abide in Jesus Christ as He commanded us in John 15:1-6…

John 15:1-6
(1) I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
(2) Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
(3) Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
(4) Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
(5) I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
(6) If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

>>Satan and his demonic forces will suddenly unleash an onslaught of very heavy and ferocious persecutions to the lax and lukewarm Christians to take as many as he can down with him to hell…

>>Our only source of strength is to ABIDE in Jesus Christ…please note that those who don’t abide in Christ, those who don’t endure will BE CAST INTO HELL…it will cost you your salvation if you refuse to Abide in Christ Jesus and as such cannot endure to the end and you will not be saved…these are not my words and spin…if you have controversy with them, then go to Jesus Christ, He said them and not me…

>>It is God’s Word and very clear that if you don’t abide in Him you will be cut off and cast into the fire…it is God’s Word and very clear that if you don’t endure to the end you will not be SAVED!

>>We can only endure the coming worldwide persecution and tribulation by abiding in Jesus Christ…we cannot do anything without Him…

>>It is at this juncture that I mention about the Holy Spirit…Jesus Christ said that He would not leave us as orphans but would send the Helper, The Spirit of Truth, The Comforter, The Holy Spirit, and that The Holy Spirit would lead us in all Truth and He would glorify Jesus Christ…

>>Many End time teachers out there ignore the ministry of The Holy Spirit and think that they will abide and endure because of their stubbornness, research, knowledge about the Illuminati, UFOs, New World Order, knowing "their rights" etc...but such thinking is stupidity and foolishness and suicidal at its best… You MUST be FILLED with The Holy Spirit...

>>The Holy Spirit is present and yes, we NEED to be filled with the Holy Spirit and He will guide us in all Truth for He is The Spirit of Truth… This means that you cannot have half truth but Truth…no more 70% truth and 30% lies…The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Truth and God’s Word is Truth, therefore The Holy Spirit testifies to The Whole Counsel of God's Word…John 17:17.

John 16:1-14
(1) These things have I spoken unto you, that ye should not be offended.
(2) They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.
(3) And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.
(4) But these things have I told you, that when the time shall come, ye may remember that I told you of them. And these things I said not unto you at the beginning, because I was with you.
(5) But now I go my way to him that sent me; and none of you asketh me, Whither goest thou?
(6) But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow hath filled your heart.
(7) Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
(8) And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
(9) Of sin, because they believe not on me;
(10) Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
(11) Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
(12) I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
(13) Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
(14) He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

>>Context of the scripture above is that Jesus Christ was speaking about the persecutions that His disciples would have to endure…so, the disciples’ hearts were filled with sorrow and then Jesus Christ spoke about the Holy Spirit, The Spirit of Truth and The Comforter, that He would not leave them as orphans without a Helper…

>>So, throw away all your unbiblical ideologies, prejudice, and preconceived ideas about The Holy Spirit that you gotten from the religious circles like the Baptist movement and all other Cessationist Preachers...read your Bible yourself and check to see if what I say is true…

>>You NEED and MUST be FILLED with The Holy Spirit as the early Christians were in the Book of Acts…anything less than what happened in the book of Acts concerning being filled with The Holy Spirit is a counterfeit…

>>As a matter of fact Jesus Christ told them to wait for the promise from The Father – The Holy Spirit in the upper room and they did not begin to witness for Christ Jesus until they were filled with The Holy Spirit…

>>They were able to endure the onslaught of persecutions because of the grace and strength they received from The Holy Spirit. They were also able at the same time to be True witnesses of Jesus Christ and contend earnestly for the Faith and hold firm to the whole counsel of God’s Word…and Endure to the end because of the grace and strength from The Holy Spirit…

>>So, those who think that they will simply overcome the Antichrist onslaught without the promise from The Father – The Holy Spirit are deluded and deceived…humble yourself and humbly ask that you will receive The Holy Spirit and be Filled with The Holy Spirit so you can be a witness for Jesus Christ in this end times and endure by abiding in Christ Jesus…Amen

>>Our Endurance cannot be done in the current state of Christendom, we cannot bare fruit that endures through the coming Tribulation by abiding in such messages as Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland, and TD Jakes…we cannot endure by being apart of the fallen apostate church…we MUST come out of such and ENDURE by ABIDING in JESUS CHRIST, The True Vine! Being grounded in “your church” will not help, being a friend of your pastor won't help either, or by loving your denomination or should I say demon-nation...

>>You must abide only in Jesus Christ in order for you to endure and stay standing at the end...

>>Endurance brings about death to self, death to the world and its ways in us, even as we are conformed to the Image of Jesus Christ...

>>As we endure we bare fruit in Christ Jesus, here by fruit, I mean the life and character of Jesus Christ is formed in us...many religious liars from the church growth movement in Christendom always spin John 15 to mean that the fruits spoken about are people that we soul win...this is not so... The fruits we bare are those of The Holy Spirit, which is the character and likeness of Jesus Christ in us...

>>So, we take a look at some scriptures here concerning the call to ENDURE…

>>Yes, to be saved, we must also endure to the end...those who don't endure to the end will not be saved...those offended over this should contact Jesus Christ directly...

Matthew 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

>>Affliction, persecution, and tribulations must come because of God's Word in us , to test us, however those who don't abide in Christ Jesus take offense...terrible record breaking persecutions are coming because the world hates Jesus Christ...and we MUST Endure...

Mark 4:17 And have no root in themselves, and so endure but for a time: afterward, when affliction or persecution ariseth for the word's sake, immediately they are offended.

>>Yes, we shall be hated by ALL men because of Jesus Christ...and we must endure by abiding in Jesus Christ even when hated for His Name Sake to the end to be saved...endurance is part of salvation...(I am so sorry all ye Pre-Tribers...contact Jesus Christ directly on questions about this...)

Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

>>The early church was one that endured, so must we endure persecutions also...

2 Thessalonians 1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

>>All GOOD soldiers of Jesus Christ MUST endure hardships...Jesus Christ and the Apostles never promised prosperity, wealth, and riches, like TD Jakes, Joyce Meyer, Rick Warren and other Babylonian Preachers teach... Jesus Christ and His apostles taught endurance of hardships, tribulations, persecutions, and suffering for Christ Jesus even unto death...

2 Timothy 2:3 Thou therefore endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.

>>Those called by Jesus Christ to lead His people must have a history of endurance'; they must be good soldiers who endure hardships, persecutions, tribulations, and sufferings even unto death...these set an example to follow for the rest of the saints...current Christian Leaders in many churches today are not so but seek to live a luxurious life at the expense of the saints...such men are liars, importers, fraudsters and wolves in sheep's clothing...you can find many of them crisscrossing the globe on TBN and Day Star TV...

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

>>It is interesting that many will not endure, abide, remain, stay in sound doctrine...they won't abide in Jesus Christ, they reject God's True Word, they reject the whole counsel of God's Holy Word and refuse to abide in Jesus Christ -The True Vine, they reject The Holy Spirit – The Spirit of Truth and as such are reserved for the fire since such branches that don't abide in Jesus Christ are thrown into the fire...

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

>>It is clear the Apostles taught endurance and sufferings for Christ Jesus...

2 Timothy 4:5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

>>God deals with us as Sons and Daughters if we endure His chastening, the tribulation period will certainly be a last chance for all saints to endure hardships and die to the things of this world and be conformed to Christ Likeness – Image of Jesus Christ...must of the Christian church has rejected the chastening of The Lord and therefore are likened to bustards but the persecutions and tribulations coming will give every Christian a chance to endure the chastening of The Lord and die to this world and be conformed to Christ's likeness...and as such God will deal with them as His True Sons and Daughters separated for Him and Holy unto him...

Hebrews 12:7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?

>>The Lord is allowing the worldwide hate and ferocious record breaking persecutions to occur to the saints for our own good...that we be separate from idols of the world – Egypt that have taken over the lives of many saints because of false pastors and preachers... The Tribulation will stripe us of every worldliness and take us out of Egypt/Babylon and Egypt/Babylon out of us...as we endure the chastening of The Lord, the Lord will deal with us as His Sons and Daughters even as we separate ourselves for Him...so, why wait until the tribulation begins? Why not start enduring and accepting the chastening of The Lord now?

2 Corinthians 6:16-18
(16) And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(17) Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
(18) And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

>>The Israelites could not endure God's Commands even the Church has done today and they could not stand the presence of God on the Mount of Meeting...they rejected a personal relationship with God and decided to have Moses speak to God on their behalf...they ended up choosing a king over them and rejecting God as their leader, they wanted to be like other nations and this grieved Samuel the Prophet greatly...today many Christians have over them kings who act as intermediaries and have rejected a personal relationship with Jesus Christ...

Hebrews 12:20 (For they could not endure that which was commanded, And if so much as a beast touch the mountain, it shall be stoned, or thrust through with a dart:

>>Yes, True Faith has to do a lot with endurance, just like Abraham, Joseph, Noah, Job and all the heroes of faith in Hebrews 11...faith which endures not is not faith...faith spoken about by charlatan preachers on Christian TV is not faith...True Faith endures...

James 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

>>Again our endurance cannot be outside God's Holy Word....we endure by abiding in Jesus Christ...we suffer for Him, not as robbers, thieves etc...

1 Peter 2:19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.

>>True Faith will endure persecutions and testing...this is not the prosperity preaching faith here, this is True Faith in Christ Jesus

1 Peter 1:6-7
(6) Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations:
(7) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honor and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

>>Yes, these are the saints that come out of the tribulation, saints that endure sufferings for Jesus Christ and endure by abiding in Jesus Christ and hold His word True...

Revelation 7:13-17
(13) And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
(14) And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
(15) Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
(16) They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
(17) For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

>>The Saints that endured by abiding in Jesus Christ overcame Satan by The Blood of The Lam, The Word of their Testimony – God's Word – Truth, and not loving their lives unto death...enduring to the end...

Revelation 12:11
(11) And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

Brothers and Sisters, Let us Endure to The End...

The Coming days are going to be very evil and persecutions are going to be very heavy and record breaking and we must endure to the end...

We are only pilgrims in this earth and our citizenship is in Heaven where our inheritance is with Jesus Christ...let us ENDURE to The END...Amen

Called to Endure to The End
In Christ Jesus
Kato Mivule
Uganda, Africa

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Matthew also warns "Pray your flight does not take place on the Sabbath. My freinds Christians are not under Sabbath Law.( We are under GRACE) Matthew is speaking to Jews who will be going through the great tribulation, before the 1000 Year Kingdom Reign.

The Covenant Promises are sealed in the Blood of Jesus. Read Hebrews concerning this New Testament/NewCovenant.

It says a WILL in not in effect unless that person dies. His death and the shedding of his blood is the highest OATH/Promise God made to mankind. Gen 3:15

Jesus is the SURETY ,*Guarantee* in the Covenant Promises.

You're missing the point. One promise is Your sins are washed away. Another is your eternal security sealed in the *Blood of the Covenant


He who is IN YOU (Christ Jesus)is stronger then he who is in the world.

Jesus said, overcame the World. We Overcome throught the Blood of the Lamb. The New Covenant Promises sealed in the ***Blood of the Covenant. Jesus Christ OUR SURETY, and those promises by OATH ( God Cannot Lie) Hebrews 13:20&21


Romans 8:37-39
37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors( Overcomers) through him that loved us.
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Covenant PROMISE, *The Blood of the Covenant*

Ephesians 6:11-13
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5
3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Jesus Christ WON our( Born Again Christians) Victory at Calvary. Don't put faith in yourselves, but in God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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Hebrews 10:
28He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite( INSULTED) unto the Spirit of grace?
30For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The Two Witnesses
1 Then I was given a reed like a measuring rod. And the angel stood, saying, “Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there. 2 But leave out the court which is outside the temple, and do not measure it, for it has been given to the Gentiles. And they will tread the holy city underfoot for forty-two months. 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy one thousand two hundred and sixty days, clothed in sackcloth.”
4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands standing before the God of the earth. 5 And if anyone wants to harm them, fire proceeds from their mouth and devours their enemies. And if anyone wants to harm them, he must be killed in this manner. 6 These have power to shut heaven, so that no rain falls in the days of their prophecy; and they have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to strike the earth with all plagues, as often as they desire.

Gods told Moses how to build the Tabernacle EXACTLY as God said, it was built after a pattern of things in Heaven.

The ARK is a picture of Jesus Christ Himself.

No one could enter into the Holy of Holies. Now through Jesus Christ, we enter into RE:
“Rise and measure the temple of God, the altar, and those who worship there.

Those in the outer court, never answering the knock at the door, ***Rev 3, Behold I stand at the door and knock***

We enter into the Holy of Holies, through the veil, that is to say His Flesh…I am crucified with Christ.

The Blood of the Everlasting Covenant was a Covenant made before the foundation of the world. A Covenant between Father, Son and Holy Spirit, sealed in the Blood of Jesus Christ. And those who are written in the Lambs Book of LIFE, from the foundation of the world, are those who are redeemed through His Blood. Purchased with HIS Blood.

So, to deny our redemption through the BLOOD of Jesus Christ, are those who have insulted the SPIRIT OF GRACE, tramples underfoot the Son of God, and have counted the Blood of the Covenant an unholy thing. These God Will take vengeance on.

This warning to Jews( and to professing Christians) who sitting on the fence between Law and Grace were warned there is no more sacrifice for sin. Jesus paid it all. To go back and live under LAW in any form or fashion is to insult the Spirit of Grace, trample underfoot the Son of God, and count the Blood of the Covenant an unholy thing.

As Noah was sealed in that ARK, so we too are sealed in the Holy Spirit of Promise.

Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-Did


:-)

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The Laodicean American Church in Bed with another Lover
The Deceit of Unholy Alliances; an African Perspective
By Kato Mivule
http://www.cephas-library.com/church_n_state/church_n_state_us_loadicean_church_in_bed_with_another_lover.html


Having gone back to the Search on this Brother, I found his own site, though he is on many.

I respect this man and his ministry.

"Called to Endure to The End"
In Christ Jesus
Kato Mivule
Uganda, Africa

http://www.yesumulungi.com/index.htm

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Katy-did wrote:

Matthew also warns "Pray your flight does not take place on the Sabbath. My freinds Christians are not under Sabbath Law.( We are under GRACE) Matthew is speaking to Jews who will be going through the great tribulation, before the 1000 Year Kingdom Reign.

[color=990033]Hi Katy

The verse quoted above could refer to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD. But either way, it was, as you say, a warning to believing Jews.

But is that relevant to the present discussion? Jesus was speaking only to His disciples, who at that time were all Jews. [i]Other[/i] parts of Matthew 24 clearly speak of the times leading up to Christ’s return, including the present, time. Therefore the command to “Watch and pray” is still in force for us in these days.[/color]

The Covenant Promises are sealed in the Blood of Jesus. Read Hebrews concerning this New Testament/NewCovenant.

It says a WILL in not in effect unless that person dies. His death and the shedding of his blood is the highest OATH/Promise God made to mankind. Gen 3:15

Jesus is the SURETY ,*Guarantee* in the Covenant Promises.

You're missing the point. One promise is Your sins are washed away. Another is your eternal security sealed in the *Blood of the Covenant

[color=990033]Of course, if you take a strongly Calvinistic view, it doesn’t make any difference to our personal salvation if we are watchful or not. But [i][u]is THAT a reason for disobeying the Lord and [b]neglecting[/b] to watch?[/u][/i][/color]

He who is IN YOU (Christ Jesus)is stronger then he who is in the world.

Jesus said, overcame the World. We Overcome through the Blood of the Lamb. The New Covenant Promises sealed in the ***Blood of the Covenant. Jesus Christ OUR SURETY, and those promises by OATH ( God Cannot Lie) Hebrews 13:20&21

Romans 8:37-39
37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors( Overcomers) through him that loved us.
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Covenant PROMISE, *The Blood of the Covenant*

Ephesians 6:11-13
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

2 Corinthians 10:3-5
3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)

5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

Jesus Christ WON our( Born Again Christians) Victory at Calvary. Don't put faith in yourselves, but in God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

[color=990033]Is anyone saying that these things aren’t true? Do they annul the command to watch and pray; or to “work for the night is coming” (work as we allow Him to work mightily in us)? Do they deny that there will be suffering and persecution for those who follow the Lord fully? Do they make void any of the warnings that He gave? Do they mean that we can rebel against Him with impunity because we are eternally safe?


in Him


Jeannette[/color]

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HE_Reigns wrote:
The Laodicean American Church in Bed with another Lover
The Deceit of Unholy Alliances; an African Perspective
By Kato Mivule
http://www.cephas-library.com/church_n_state/church_n_state_us_loadicean_church_in_bed_with_another_lover.html


Having gone back to the Search on this Brother, I found his own site, though he is on many.

I respect this man and his ministry.

"Called to Endure to The End"
In Christ Jesus
Kato Mivule
Uganda, Africa

http://www.yesumulungi.com/index.htm

I MUST look up this site, thank you for posting it! I was in Uganda twice, and love Africa, but so many Christians there (as in the developed world) seem to have jumped on the "Prosperity" bandwaggon. If he hasn't it will be a refreshing change!

I haven't heard of this brother, though he's obviously from the area of Uganda where I was. ("Yesumulungi", from the web address, means "Jesus is good"!)

Blessings

Jeannette

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LittleGift wrote:

I MUST look up this site, thank you for posting it! I was in Uganda twice, and love Africa, but so many Christians there (as in the developed world) seem to have jumped on the "Prosperity" bandwaggon. If he hasn't it will be a refreshing change!

I haven't heard of this brother, though he's obviously from the area of Uganda where I was. ("Yesumulungi", from the web address, means "Jesus is good"!)

Just had a quick look at the site and almost at once found this:

[i][color=000066]Attention: I don't send out e-mail solicitation for money or donations; any e-mails that purport to use the website name, YesuMulungi.com or use my name, and that they are from Africa seeking donations for Orphans, AIDS/HIV victims, etc, should be strongly disregarded. I only send reply e-mails to inquiries and feedbacks I get from visitors on this site. I don't collect money or donations via e-mail and I don't own or operate any e-mail list. Thanks...KM[/color][/i]

Wow, if you know anything about Africa that is amazing!

He has to be a good man! :-D

Jeannette

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Thank you LittleGift. Look forward to feedback on his articles. Amazing that you lived there.

[b]Yesumulungi![/b]

:-D

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HE_Reigns wrote:
Thank you LittleGift. Look forward to feedback on his articles. Amazing that you lived there.

[b]Yesumulungi![/b]

:-D

Yes it seems an excellent site. I look forward to reading more articles.


Jeannette

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quote:>>Jesus Christ commands that we MUST ENDURE to the End…we must stand, persevere, and be faithful to the end…

Matthew 24:9-12
(9) Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.
(10) And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
(11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
(12) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.


thought:
It is amazing to me how we take some passages so deep to into the heart and only a chapter away from where we hear Jesus' Words we totally disregard a passage such as Matt 23:23 as Old Testament law.

Matt 26:13
13 Verily I say unto you, Wheresoever this gospel shall be preached in the whole world, there shall also this, that this woman hath done, be told for a memorial of her.
KJV

How much did this oil cost the woman in material costs?


Matt 6:21
21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.
KJV

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Moe, I think you have just prophesied here.

Firstly - with the 10 virgins - how much did it cost the 5 wise virgins to have enough oil to make it through the darkness that preceded His Coming - whereas the 5 foolish didn't bother.

Secondly - I clicked on the profile of the initial poster of this thread and noticed this was their last post here.
I have wondered why now and have this poster in prayer and sending thanks for this post that started this thread.
Thank you brokenvessel, wherever you are.


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HE_Reigns wrote:
Moe, I think you have just prophesied here.

Firstly - with the 10 virgins - how much did it cost the 5 wise virgins to have enough oil to make it through the darkness that preceded His Coming - whereas the 5 foolish didn't bother.

Secondly - I clicked on the profile of the initial poster of this thread and noticed this was their last post here.
I have wondered why now and have this poster in prayer and sending thanks for this post that started this thread.
Thank you brokenvessel, wherever you are.

moe wrote:
My prayers go out for brokenvessel as well.
I haven't noticed the brokenvessel name on the prayer list of "miricles follow the Plow" page, of course I I stay in the magoo mode often. Thanks for bringing this to my attention He_Reigns.
and yes HE does reign.

B
BrokenOne


HE_Reigns wrote:

Secondly - I clicked on the profile of the initial poster of this thread and noticed this was their last post here.
I have wondered why now and have this poster in prayer and sending thanks for this post that started this thread.
Thank you brokenvessel, wherever you are.

Brokenvessel was going to be a grandmother around the end of July. I suspect that a new little grandbaby might be occupying her time currently. She is a precious sister and I hope she comes back soon.

Danielle

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Yes brother Moe, HE DOES REIGN. :-D
Thank you!

Thank you BrokenOne for noticing our concern.
Praying she's a Happy Granny.
Also praying she'll be back to tell us if it's a girl or a boy and all about her new proud and joy.
God Bless you and Moe and LittleGift and brokenvessel.

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Of course, if you take a strongly Calvinistic view, it doesn’t make any difference to our personal salvation if we are watchful or not. But is THAT a reason for disobeying the Lord and neglecting to watch?

Jeannette, Are you suggesting the Blood of the Everlasting Covenant is Calvinistic? How silly.

I'm not a Calvinist, and I don't know any Born Again Jews who are, personally. I do know Salvation IS OF the Jews, as Jesus clearly said. Calvin wasn't a Jew and was anti-semitic along with Luther. ( I'm leary of any religion who names it after a person anyway)

To also suggest The Covenant sealed in the Blood of Jesus NEGATES suffering and Tribulation is also not found in Scripture...( maybe in Calvinism...but like I say, I am NOT a Calvinist.

This Everlasting Covenant sealed in the Blood of Jesus Christ is to WHOSOEVER WILL.

Not Only ***DO WE SUFFER***, as we are called to suffering..." THE FELLOWSHIP OF HIS SUFFERINGS"
Please read Philippians 3 very closely,
(and also get in your minds it's not the sufferings of this world, but the fellowship of HIS sufferings...(but only those who are IN CHRIST and belong to Him can partake of THIS suffering, and understand the difference)

But also consider the following scripture to the CHURCH of SAINTS who are WASHED IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB,

Colossians 1:12-14
12Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:


John 16:33
These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Acts 14:22
Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Romans 5:3
And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Romans 8:35
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

Romans 12:12
Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

2 Corinthians 1:4
Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

2 Corinthians 7:4
Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.

Ephesians 3:13
Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

1 Thessalonians 3:4
For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

2 Thessalonians 1:4
So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:


Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ

You are teaching we endure IN THE WORLD"

Those who are redeemed and washed in the Blood of the Lamb, who are partakers of Jesus Christ hear Jesus Words...

Jesus Teaches, we In Christ have OVERCOME the World.

Consider Paul's warning very closely:

Philippians 3:18-21
For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the Cross of Christ,
who's end IS distruction, who's God is their appetite, who's glory is in their shame, WHO MIND EARTHLY THINGS.

FOR OUR CITIZENSHIP IS IN HEAVEN, FROM WHICH WE LOOK FOR THE SAVIOR, THE LORD JESUS CHRIST,

WHO SHALL CHANGE OUR LOWLY BODIES, THAT IT MAY BE FASHIONED LIKE HIS GLORIOUS BODY, ACCORDING TO THE WORKING BY WHICH HE IS ABLE EVEN TO SUBDUE ALL THINGS UNTO HIMSELF.

Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-did

Discern your sufferings!!!!! It could mean the difference between LIFE or death.
Anyway, we are not saved by suffering. We're saved by the finished work JESUS ALONE did at Calvary. The Christian suffering is our sanctification.

Yours however sound more like survival and hopes you will be saved if you endure. What if you should die before your put to task? Did you miss out on proving you could endure it all and save yourselves?

He who is IN YOU is stronger then he who is in the world. Those who are Christ have overcome the world. WE are MORE than Conquers( Overcomers)!!! Romans 8


Oh and PS,
To the Christian who is Washed in the Blood, and have have the Promises of the New Covenant AKA New Testament...The CHRISTIAN warefare is NOT against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities and rulers in dark places. This is OUR personal battlefield, as we overcome.

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Jeannette and Others
Part 2

Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath TRANSLATED us into the kingdom of his dear Son: AS WE SPEAK!!!!
Hebrews 11:5
By faith Enoch was TRANSLATED that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had TRANSLATED him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

It would appear the Saint has already been TRANSLATED, AKA Raptured, and is only waiting for the redemption of our bodies.

Paul said, I am crucified to the world, and the world is crucified to me.

We are dead to the things of this world, another reason Paul instructs the Saints:

Colossians 3
1If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

With Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-Did ;-)

PS: Added/Edited for Content:

PS: It’s also very important to discern your KINGDOMS.

Acts 1:5-7

5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.
[b][color=CC0000]6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again THE KINGDOM TO ISRAEL? [/color][/b]

[b]*****Referring to Matthew 24,[/b]

OF which WAS NOT restored in 70AD. To say such a thing would be to suggest Jesus was suffering from Schizophrenia, (Schizophrenics will begin telling you about the weather and end the sentence with the ingredients on how to bake a cake) or your concern for Matthew 24 would be no concern to us now at all, thus being fulfilled in 70AD. The 1000 years would be over, satan in the lake of fire, and we would be now in the New Heaven and New Earth.


7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.


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And just wanted to say this is an EXCELLENT Article:

The Laodicean American Church in Bed with another Lover
The Deceit of Unholy Alliances; an African Perspective
By Kato Mivule
http://www.cephas-library.com/church_n_state/church_n_state_us_loadicean_church_in_bed_with_another_lover.html

Dominion Theology believes you have to endure to the end to be saved.

True Christianity believes those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ are saved.

Romans 10:9&10

Kato Mivule is saying exactly what I am saying...the PROSPERITY teachers are the Kingdom NOW/ Dominion/ Replacement Theology Teachers, who believe Matthew 24 is speaking to the CHURCH.

The Church is a New Creation, neither Jew or Gentile, but a New Creation. Ephesians explains that the CHURCH has a HIGHER Calling, and it was Paul's heart desire that "we" the Church understand and know THE HOPE OF OUR CALLING.

And that is to Preach the Gospel of Salvation before these things come to pass, of which they will.

We do more then *watch and pray* or sit and watch Fox News and think we are being sanctified just by the wonder of it all.

How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the Gospel of Peace ( with God) and bring Glad tidings of Good things...

Well, Matthew 24 sure isn't glad tidings of good things is it. But the message of Salvation IS to give hope to those going through tribulation.

Salvation is not a message of I hope so's!

Jesus Christ IS OUR HOPE, PERIOD, no matter what we go through or may go through!


So, NO, I didn't miss the point at all!

Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-did

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HE_Reigns wrote:
Yes brother Moe, HE DOES REIGN. :-D
Thank you!

Thank you BrokenOne for noticing our concern.
Praying she's a Happy Granny.
Also praying she'll be back to tell us if it's a girl or a boy and all about her new proud and joy.
God Bless you and Moe and LittleGift and brokenvessel.

Yes, thankyou for that news. There are many precious, QUIET brothers and sisters (unlike some of us :-)) who tend to be overlooked.

jeannette

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Dear Katy

I had wondered about sending you a pm, but think this is best said in the open.

I am not going to attempt a response to your last two posts, because of your confrontational and aggressive manner.

It seems as if you are deliberately trying to start a quarrel.

Is that really your aim - to divide, stir up bad feeling and destroy any hope of reasonable discussion?

I'm not angry - maybe you actually don't mean any harm - but harm is being caused (not to me, or in this thread only) and I'm concerned; not only for you, but lest any "little ones" on SI are caused to stumble.

The Lord is able to deal with all our prickles and wrong reactions, and the underlying reasons (and maybe deep wounds) that only He knows.

He loves each one of us, including you and me.


Yours in that love


Jeannette

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My Dear Jeannette,

If we want to look back at the posts, I believe it was YOU who made a rude comment to my post concerning the GOSPEL of Salvation. Funny how things get twisted around.

You didn't need to say anything at all to me, but you post was rude and confrontational.

To call someone a *Calvinist*, and the way YOU put it was a derogatory comment , because of our eternal security preached by none other than Jesus Christ Himself. If you don't believe in your eternal security, then I'm really sorry.

I am not going to attempt a response to your last two posts, because of your confrontational and aggressive manner

I'm sorry but the Truth is confrontational. But I don't believe that is not why you don't want to respond.

I asked you several months ago on another post if You believed in the Millennial Kingdom Reign, Jesus returning to take the throne of David, and the Church called to Reign and Rule with Christ during this time.

You refused to answer then and said it was too complicated to explain, and that you would PM me to explain what it really meant.

I didn't ask for an explanation...simply a Yes or NO. It's a very simple question.. Yes or No.

You can tell those who believe in Dominion/Replacement Theology by their answer.

If in fact you don't believe in the Kingdom Reign, and that the Kingdom will be restored to Israel, Acts 1:6&7, and also the fulfilling of the Prophecy of Isaiah 14, that has yet to come to pass, then you in fact believe God is restoring this lost and dying world to the Church...Replacement Theology/ AKA: anti Semitism.


SO, the next time I place the GOSPEL online, The preaching of the Cross, the Blood of Jesus, and the Covenant Promises , maybe you will be polite enough not to be rude and confrontational.

Is that really your aim - to divide, stir up bad feeling and destroy any hope of reasonable discussion?

Actually Jeannette, I thought YOU were the one doing that....destroying the HOPE of a reasonable Gospel!!!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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Katy, why are you so angry?

Do you want to get this thread locked?

Jeannette

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Jeannette, I am not angry at all. But I'm confused as to why you keep wanting to keep baiting me, and trying to bring this into something personal?

Please STOP doing that!

I've presented scripture here to the Church and our calling. Also showing Matthew 24 is not to the CHURCH, but Prophecy concerning the end times, Daniel's 70th week, leading up to the return of Jesus Christ as KING who will take the Throne of David.

Do you know Jeannette, the Two witnesses is a call of salvation before this horrible wrath takes place. I pointed out in Revelations, those IN CHRIST, IN THE ARK, are secure as you can see, will not be tramples by the Gentile world power that is going to come crashing down....Mystery Babylon and all that is in that.

I'm not angry at all Jeannette, only concerned that we preach the Gospel of Salvation, before these events take place.

As you see in Matthew 24, it will be a terrible time. We can do more then watch and pray...as that was instructed to the Jews going through this time. This is not a message to the CHURCH, the Body of Christ. I showed the differences in the two messages.

So, Lets stick with scripture, as I have, and leave any personal comments, RE:(Calvinism) etc, out of it. That way, the thread won't get closed down.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did


PS Edited for Content

1 Thessalonians 5
1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness

Keep in mind here YE, WE, .....THEY, THEM!!!

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Matthew 24 actually begins in Matthew 23. God doesn’t write in Chapters, that is man’s doing, put together in proper context, seeing the SAME scripture in both 23 and 24, This Generation.

Well, we know this did not happen in 70AD. No recorded history of any of these events happening in 70 AD.

Matthew 23: 36

Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
37O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
38Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
39For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.
Matthew 24: 34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

What things ?


Matthew 24 a continuation of Matthew 23

1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.

2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.

3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.

8All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.

11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)

16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25Behold, I have told you before.

26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:

33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,

39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;

49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;

50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,

51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

But again, Paul Comforts the CHURCH with these words:
1 Thessalonians 5
1But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.

2For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

3For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

4But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

5Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness

Keep in mind here YE, WE, .....THEY, THEM!!!

With Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-Did

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[b][u]Watch! For The Love of Many Shall Wax Cold[/u][/b]


[b]Matthew 24:11-13[/b]
(11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
(12) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
(13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

[b]Watch and be not taken by the love of this world…[/b]
As we approach the Tribulation Period, many Christians are being led astray by focusing on the perishable things of this world and as such they are chocking their love for Christ Jesus. We sadly have many Christians setting their affections not on Christ Jesus but the material things of this world.

Jesus Christ gave us a very clear warning that in the last days, the love of many would grow cold. This warning is very imperative that we all watch and take heed that we don’t become part of those who fulfill this scripture. Regardless of who you are spiritually, the Devil is all out attacking Christians, right at the cravings of their hearts.

The Devil is simply giving Christians a fake love, a love for this world and as such killing the love of Christ in the believers. We are to take heed because those who loose their love for Christ and those whose love for Christ grows cold in these last days are not destined for good but have their reward with Satan in Hell.

So, in this article we take a look at how one comes to loose their Love for Christ or how their love for Christ grows cold. Also, what type of love does the Bible speak about, is it Man’s love or Christ’s Love? The Bible is very clear and shows this to us.

We are therefore to be aware of the traps that Satan would set in order to cause us to loose our love for Jesus Christ.

[b]The Rise of False Prophets…[/b]
Matthew 24:11-13
(11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
(12) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
(13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
We see that there was a rise of False Prophets…
They shall deceive many…
Iniquity shall abound…
…As a result the love of many shall wax cold…

The rise of false teachers and prophets has been and is a catalyst to the coldness among many Christians today. Simply feeding at the feet of false teachers will certainly bring about coldness to the love of Christ Jesus in many Christians.

So, this is a warning that we awake and use scripture to discern what is right from what is wrong so that our faith and spiritual eyes will stay focused on Jesus Christ and not man. Those who continue to feed at the feet of false teachers and prophets risk having their love for Christ grow cold.

The Bible clearly speaks of a time when the love of many will grow cold. This coldness is in context with the rise of false prophets who come to deceive many. Always deception will be accompanied by a coldness and lukewarmness of a Christian. Truth in Christ Jesus will always set us free from satanic bondage and set us on fire for God.

So, it is imperative that Christians today take discernment based on God’s Word very seriously as not doing so will certainly cause one to feed on leavened bread and adulterated word which in turn will cause you to set your spiritual affection after things of this world – idols of this day and age.

[b]Deception in the last days…[/b]
Deception will not come upfront as ‘deception’ but rather a cover-up. Many times deception comes with half truth and half lies. The devil will use the half truth as a packaging mechanism to sell his lies to the church. However, we are to reject all false doctrines and expose them as false, having nothing to do with them.

The deception in this day and age is to sell sin, lies, and evil as being ‘okay’ and normal, not just in the world but in the Church too. Remember, it takes little poison in food or a drink to kill you, having a preacher teach 70 per cent truth and 30 percent lies will kill you spiritually. The 30 per cent poison is enough to put you to sleep as they say…in other words to kill you…

[b]Iniquity shall abound…[/b]
The Bible identifies the period of time in which iniquity shall abound thus the love of many growing cold. We live in a time when evil abounds… The Lord Jesus Christ was referring to the end time saints and giving us a warning that when we see the rise of false prophets and the abounding of iniquity, then we are to take heed that we don’t get caught up in false doctrines from false prophets and thus participation in the abounding iniquity, leading to a coldness of heart and lack of love for Christ but instead an increase in the love of the world.

[b]If You Love Me, Keep My Commandments…[/b]
However, knowing Truth alone is not enough, we must act on that Truth we know; we must be doers of God’s Holy Word.

[b]John 14:15-18[/b]
(15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.
(16) And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
(17) Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
(18) I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

The Lord Jesus Christ says that if we love Him we should keep His commandments. So, it is very important to know that loving Jesus Christ in Truth involves us keeping His commandments. It is in this context that The Lord says that “and I will pray to the Father and He shall give you another Comforter that He may abide with you forever…”

The Lord will pray to the Father that we get the comfort of the Holy Spirit but in context of keeping His Word and that means keeping His Doctrine. The Love of many is growing cold today simply because they keep not the Commandments of The Lord. They abide not in the Doctrine of Jesus Christ. Therefore they abide in the false doctrines of false prophets and false teachers filled with the love of this world.

[b]Loving Jesus Christ means obeying Him…[/b]
John 14:21-24
(21) He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
(22) Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
(23) Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
(24) He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Brethren, The Lord Jesus Christ is very clear that if we truly love Him, then we shall keep His sayings, we shall keep His Word, and we shall keep His commandments. You cannot separate your love for Christ from obeying and Keeping His commandments.

Don’t be deceived by Christians who claim that they Love The Lord yet don’t keep His sayings… Brethren, such Christians don’t love The Lord enough to keep His sayings. They simply like The Lord but Don’t Love Him! As a matter of fact The Lord Jesus Christ says that those who keep not His Commandments are NOT His! Brethren, if we truly belong to The Lord Jesus Christ, then lets keep His sayings and Doctrine.

I have of recent been visiting some Pastors and Churches here in Uganda and found out that most Christians are not up to keeping The Lord’s Commands. They pick and choose what they want to believe in and reject all sayings of Jesus Christ that call to carry our cross and follow Him. Many Christians simply want messages that will have them get material prosperity in the world. Brethren, this is clear deception and one which is currently causing the love of many to wax cold.

[b]The Rich Young Ruler and His love for the world…[/b]
Luke 18:18-25
(18) And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
(19) And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
(20) Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
(21) And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
(22) Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
(23) And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
(24) And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
(25) For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

From the above scripture we see that this Young Rich Ruler loved his riches more than he loved The Lord. Though he obeyed some of The Lord’s Commandments, he became very sorrowful when it came to forsaking the love of this world and love for riches in this world. Many Christians today are likened to the Young Rich Ruler who loved his wealth more than The Lord.

Love for the world and the things of the world are the greatest cause of love growing cold among Christians today. Many false Church doctrines are engineered toward making Christians conform to this world and love the things of this world.

The Prosperity Doctrine, Dominionism Doctrine, Doctrine of Balaam, Jezebel Doctrine, are set up to conform Christians to the Love of this world. As Christians living in these last days, we must watch out for this. If your love for Christ is growing cold, then certainly there must be an increase for the love of the things in this world and disobeying The Lord’s Commands.

[b]The Greatest Commandment...[/b]
Matthew 22:35-40
(35) Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
(36) Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
(37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
(38) This is the first and great commandment.
(39) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
(40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

The Greatest commandment that Jesus Christ spoke about in this verse above talks about our Total Love for Jesus Christ and then love for our neighbor. It is interesting to note that we don’t love our neighbor with our own fleshy love that is so limited and selfish.

However, when we love The Lord with all our total love then being filled with The Love of Christ we can truly love our neighbor. The Love spoken about here involves our obedience to Christ and our keeping of His Commandments, for those who love Jesus Christ keep His sayings and obey His commandments.

This is the Love that the Devil hates and wants to destroy in our lives by enticing us with the Love of this world. Brethren, we are to watch against this and make sure that we are not being enticed from obeying The Lord’s Commands.

[b]You Abide in His Love If You Keep His Commands…[/b]
John 15:9-10
(9) As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
(10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Jesus Christ is clearer here when He says that if we keep His commandments, we abide in His love. Brethren, don’t believe in those who lie and deceive that Once Saved You are Always Saved regardless of how you live. If you really love Jesus Christ then you are going to keep His sayings and obey His commandments.

Many today are ashamed of the Words of Jesus Christ, they are ashamed of the cross, they are ashamed of words of Christ that call for death to self and enduring shame and suffering for His Name.

I know Pastors and Church leaders who don’t want to hear anything message they deem ‘negative’… They don’t want to hear any message that speaks about suffering for Christ…all they want is messages that speak about getting rich, church growth and having dominion over this world.

Brethren, this we are to watch out for, the devil will use the love of this world and the things of this world to kill the love and obedience for Christ in the undiscerning believer.

[b]Be Grounded in The Love Of Christ Jesus, in His Doctrine…[/b]
Ephesians 3:17-19
(17) That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
(18) May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
(19) And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

We are to be grounded in The Love of Christ, with Christ dwelling in our hearts fully, that we may be filled with all the fullness of God. The love of Jesus Christ involves our keeping of His sayings, sayings being His teachings and Doctrine, and also obeying His sayings and Teachings. This love of Christ that fills our hearts then overflows in obedience to Christ to love our neighbors as we do ourselves…

2 Timothy 1:13
(13) Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

We are to hold fast to the sound words of our Lord Jesus Christ, the sound Doctrine of Jesus Christ, this is what will keep our hearts from growing cold.

[b][u]Love towards Jesus Christ and All Saints…[/u][/b]
Philemon 1:5
(5) Hearing of thy love and faith, which thou hast toward the Lord Jesus, and toward all saints;

We see here again a similar pattern in which Paul speaks about the love and faith first towards our Lord Jesus Christ and to all saints, or for that matter to our neighbor. So, the more we relate deeper to Jesus Christ and get grounded in Him, in His word, then certainly we shall love the brethren and our neighbor…

This love for Jesus Christ involves fully obeying His commandments, and this is what will keep us from growing cold.

On a side note, some Christians claim that they are on fire for God because they shout and scream a lot in prayer meetings and when preaching. Yes, one could be totally charismatic in their preaching but their love for Christ Jesus is all dead cold.

Simply being a ‘preaching machine’ or an eloquent preacher does not mean one is on fire for God. For most part, it is the opposite; such folks tend to be cold hearted towards the commandments of Jesus Christ and love for the saints, only seeking accolades and vain glories from man.

[b]Love for the world is enmity with God…[/b]
James 4:4-6
(4) Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
(5) Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?
(6) But he giveth more grace. Wherefore he saith, God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble.

James warns us against love for the world. This is total enmity with God. So, if one does not love Christ Jesus, then they certainly are in love with the world and the things of this world. The devil will try as much as possible to entice undiscerning Christians into this kind of love…the love for the world, which is friendship with the world.

Brethren, this is what we are to watch out for, in our jobs, homes, children, friends, etc there is always a pull towards loving the world and being a friend of the world, so we don’t offend them. Brethren, flee from such worldly love, this type of love is worldly and deadly, only causing you to grow cold hearted towards The Lord.

[b]God’s Love in us perfected when we keep His Commands…[/b]
1 John 2:3-6
(3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
(4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
(5) But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.
(6) He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

We are warned and exhorted again that if we say that we know Jesus Christ and don’t keep His commandments, then we are liars and truth is not in us. However, if we keep His word then is the Love of God perfected in us…

Brethren, if you have read this article this far, you are sure now that our love for Christ Jesus requires us to obey His commandments and also keep His sayings…and this is what will keep us unstained from the world and on fire for Jesus Christ.

[b]Love not the world, neither the things of the world…[/b]
1 John 2:15-17
(15) Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
(16) For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
(17) And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.

We are not to love the world, neither the things in the world, the lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and pride of life are not of the Father. Such love is sensual and leads to hell. Such worldly love is what has captured the hearts of many Christians today making their love for Christ grow cold and finally leading to apostasy.

We are to watch against this worldly love daily and examine ourselves daily according to God’s word to see if we are still in the faith…the True Love of Christ.

[b]The Holy Spirit Abides with those Who Keep His Commands…[/b]
1 John 3:23-24
(23) And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
(24) And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

When we keep His commands and doctrines, no matter how hard they seem to be or sound, then we dwell in Him and as such know that His Spirit abides in us. I have heard of preachers claiming that they live in a “Holy Spirit Generation” but they are very disobedient to the commands of The Lord. They forget that The Holy Spirit is The Spirit of Truth and will abide with those who obey and keep the commandments of Jesus Christ.

[b]This is love that we walk after His commandments…[/b]
2 John 1:3-6
(3) Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.
(4) I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father.
(5) And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.
(6) And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.

It pleases The Lord that we walk in Truth and Love, certainly John is speaking about The Love of Christ here that leads us in obedience to His commands and keeping His sayings or doctrines. This is love that we walk after His commandments. The love of the world will always lead us to walk against the commands of Jesus Christ…as such causing our love of Jesus Christ to grow cold…

[b]Many Deceivers have entered the world, they love not Christ…[/b]
2 John 1:7-11
(7) For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
(8) Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
(9) Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
(10) If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
(11) For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

John finally warns the saints that deceivers have already entered this world and confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh…they reject the authority of Jesus Christ in the life of the believer today.

They reject the notion that Christ Jesus abides in us if we abide in Him and obey His commandments. These lairs abide not in the doctrine of Christ and therefore they have not the Love of Christ in them because Christ abides not in them… Their hearts have grown cold towards The Lord and are filled with love of this world.

We are to stay away from such. Many Pastors and Christians today abide not in the Doctrine of Christ and as such have become enemies of Christ Jesus. Brethren, we ought not to walk along their path that leads to destruction…

[b]Thou Has Left thy First Love…Repent!!![/b]
Revelation 2:4-5
(4) Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
(5) Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

Finally Brethren, many claim to be part of the Remnant Church and movement, they properly discern false brethren, and false prophets, yet, they have lost their first love for Christ Jesus. Brethren, we are to examine ourselves daily with God’s Holy Word to see if we still stand in the faith.

Many claim to be true Christians but are slowly loosing their first love for Jesus Christ. The world is slowly eating at their souls. They are being taken by the love of the world, lust of the eyes, lust of the flesh and pride of life. Brethren, this is what is causing many to have their love grow cold.

[b]~~~~~~~~~~~[/b]

The Church at Ephesus was had lost their first love yet continued to do the works of The Lord, they continued in discernment and other good ministry deeds yet they were getting cold hearted.

How can it be that one serves The Lord yet they are cold hearted? Yes, brethren, it can happen, that is why many will come to The Lord and say, Lord we cast out devils in your name, we did miracles in your name, yet The Lord will tell them to get out of His presence and that He never knew them because they were workers of iniquity.

Brethren, this sounds harsh and terrifying and yes, it should. We are to work out our salvation with both fear and trembling before The Lord.

So, simply calling yourself a remnant Christian and with a good discernment ministry will not be of help eternally to you if you loose your first love and cease obeying the commandments of The Lord and keeping His Doctrine and sayings. Brethren, lets watch that we loose not our first love for Jesus Christ [and one another].

In Christ Jesus
Kato Mivule
June 3, 2007
http://www.yesumulungi.com/index.htm

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The Deceit of Unholy Alliances; an African Perspective
By Kato Mivule
February 28 2005 | Updated March 20, 2005

I wrote an article recently about some deception flowing from the Western Church to the whole Christian world packaged as truth in Prosperity, Left Behind, Purpose driven, and Church Growth Movement gospel. The intent of this article is to continue casting light on these matters as some of that material and deceit is already spreading quickly in Uganda and other parts of Africa. I deal with the unholy alliances--harlotry, whoredom and spiritual adultery practiced in the Laodicean church of America and sadly being spread to many parts of the Christian world under the guise of Church Dominionism gospel.
The Laodicean Church in America is holding to a false belief that God has called His people to extend Christian rule in all spheres of government and life, so as to have a Christian society or nation. This deception stems from dominionism theology, a belief that Christians should be rulers of all spheres of life in this present age. History is a witness that this kind of religious lunacy produced the likes of Emperor Constantine, the Crusaders, Hitler and all other tyrants who used religion and Christianity in particular to foster imperialism, fascism and all other despicable social sins always hiding behind the name of Jesus Christ.
The Deceit of Unholy Alliances; an African Perspective
By Kato Mivule
February 28 2005 | Updated March 20, 2005


Yes, as this Dominionism Theology takes hold of the world and our country, you can be sure LOVE will wax cold. As Kato Mivule so wonderfully states in his article.

Dominion Theology began in this country with Calvinism. In the Book, The Light and the Glory, Peter Marshall suggests that America is the NEW Promised Land and America is God’s NEW Chosen People….therefore claiming all the EARTHLY promises to Israel, this we have the beginning of the first Prosperity Gospel …Commerce.

Now we have those who continue to carry a message out of Matthew 24, a message to APOSTATE Jews, who rejected Jesus Christ, and apply it to a REMNANT Church???!!??

I’ve never heard of a “Remnant Church” or that the Church was a Remnant of anything. Paul, Peter, James, John etc never once use the term “Remnant Church”. Once again the Idea that the Church is now taken the place of the wrath and finished business He plans to deal with Israel. A remnant is that which is left over from the Original peace. Those original promises to Israel of KING was also fortold in the OT. There were 2 Comings, one of King and one of Redeemer. Redeemer comes before Kingship.

Consider Romans 11...yes, Israel is still called God’s Elect and the believing Remnant WILL be saved.

In our Country’s interest in giving back the Land to the Palestinians, drawing s timeline of when those in certain areas had to leave their homes, and give them over is nothing more than a Hitler move to say the least.

Added for content:

[b][color=CC0000]Isaiah 65:19And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

21And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.

22They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.

23They shall not labour in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

24And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear.

25The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

[/color][/b]


As we continue to neglect the promises to Israel, and their future, claiming those promises to the Church or that America is now God’s New Chosen People who decide this or that will be OUR ultimate downfall.

Watch! For The Love of Many Shall Wax Cold

(11) And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
(12) And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
(13) But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Love will wax cold because of Israel and those faithful to the scriptures concerning Israel. Jesus warned the Jews this will happen. Israel is exorted to wait for the Messiah, and not believe anyone who comes in His name. Those will be horrible times for Daniel's 70th week. Endure they must!

Thank you for Listening

Love in Christ
Katy-Did


PS Added for content:

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Hi Katy-did, I've viewed many of LittleGift's posts in my searches and found her on a thread on Israel defending the side that you and I would take.

Also, on eschatology, I see we take the same view of anti-dominianism and pro-pre-millenial reign.

Now away from that - I personally would like to ask - if you wouldn't mind - are you a Pre-Mid or Post Tribulation Resurrection believer ?

Not for dialogue on the issue, just so that I may follow you easier.
Most all of what you posted I agree with, but got tied up on a mention about Matt 24 just being for the Jews.

I think a few of us are feeling the tension because of all of the debate going on presently elsewhere on Board and all but fear to ask questions or start another doctrine war, so that is why I'm posting these verses here below.

I don't worry about what people believe until it may somehow cause them to not be saved. Such as, messed up Christology for one.
I know people from every eschatological view there is, but I could not say they aren't saved, so rather than argue with each other, we put love first - like that post earlier.
The Church at Ephesus had all their doctrines straight, but they lost their Love.
With apologetics, that is where the need to guard the heart most may be, in how we treat one another and if we can give a gentle answer.

Thanks for understanding my question and my heart in this.


Jas 3:17,18 But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
Bless you!

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Jeannette,

I do want to apologize for our misunderstanding.

Sometimes it's difficult when just reading words to know the tone ahd heart of the comments.

I do see you are Pro- Israel.

Please accept my apology as you are a Dear Sweet Little Lamb.

Sincerely with Love
Katy-did

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Oh this is great - thank you both.
Praise our Lord.
Glory to The Lamb.
Bless all His Lambs. :-D

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Hello He_ Reigns,

Well, first let me say, that Matthew 24 is most certainly concerning Jews, just prior to and leading into the 1000 Year Kingdom Reign. If the Church still believes itself to be here, these believers are POST or maybe believe they will be up and back in a split second to reign and rule with Christ.

Those going into the Kingdom Reign will not be saying as does the Church...I am Crucified with Christ.

If you look at all of Matthew, it is Kingdom Reign teachings, or LAW...certainly not the Grace the Church is in a the moment. The Church is composed of ONE NEW MAN...neither Jew or Gentile, but a New Creation. This was Paul's hearts desire that WE, the Church, know the hope of OUR Calling. Those going into the Millennial Reign are going to be flesh and blood Jews and Gentiles...****not the ONE NEW MAN--the CHURCH who is going to reign and rule with Christ.

Knowing and understanding this puts Matthew 24 along with 23 into perspective. Also in Matthew are the Judgment of Nations and Judgment of the Sheep and Goats....again NOT THE CHURCH. This Judgment will be those who are left here during this tribulation period and how they treat the Jews.

NOW, with that said, How interesting the Church is called in Colossians 2 " The Mystery of God". There are only two instances in scripture the words "Mystery of God" is used. The Mystery of coarse is the CHURCH, Christ in you, the Hope of GLORY,.... not the hope of the Millennial Reign, however we will be with Christ during that time IN OUR GLORIFIED BODIES. Many scripture, also in Thessalonians/ Revelation 14, state we will return WITH HIM. So then, we must first be with Him to return with Him.

Now, the other place in scripture "The Mystery of God" is Revelation 10:7...The Mystery of God is complete. Immediately afterward the KINGDOM REIGN is announced (but only announced...not yet set up, as many things have to first take place one being the total annihilation of Gentile world power, Mystery Babylon).This makes sense because there cannot be two testimonies on earth at the same time...one for the Kingdom...being restored to Israel (earthly) and one for the Church (a heavenly calling).
It is also at the seven or last TRUMP, as the sound of the Angels leading up to that are the seven Trumpets of Judgment...not WRATH, which are the Bowls that do certainly come later.

This too is in keeping with (1st Corinthians 15...at the LAST Trump, and another place I believe Thessalonians, about the Trump will sound and WE, The Church will meet the Lord in the Clouds.

Peter makes an interesting statement....Judgment begins in the House of the Lord...and what will be the end of those ..etc. etc.

The 7 trumpets are the Judgments. But are the Judgements those of Matthew 24. I don't believe they are. I believe Matthew 24 comes later in the plan...when the Jews take flight in the dessert, prior to Armageddon. (Pray your flight is not on the Sabbath) Will the Church be here then...I don't believe we will. Are we called to take flight...NO!


I do find in Rev 3, when the Lord says, Come up here, that the remainder of John's prophecy is from Heaven looking down, and not John looking up.


Well, there you have it. You know I don't believe in POST, and not totally convinced on pre.

But with many books written and much money made, who wants to hear out or even consider another option.??

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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Katy-did wrote:
Jeannette,

I do want to apologize for our misunderstanding.

Sometimes it's difficult when just reading words to know the tone ahd heart of the comments.

I do see you are Pro- Israel.

Please accept my apology as you are a Dear Sweet Little Lamb.

Sincerely with Love
Katy-did

Thank you Katy :-D :-D:-D

I wonder if part of the misunderstanding re Israel is because I have, in recent years, learned to look at Scripture in a non-linear way (as it was originally intended apparently) - in the Hebrew way instead of the Greek, "logical" way in which I was previously trained. This means I could easily have given the wrong impression on this subject.

There are often (so this way of looking at Scripture teaches) multiple applications of the same passage,and multiple fulfillments of the same prophecy (up until the ultimate, final fulfilment).

This may need further explantion, but bear with me for a moment...

The point I'm trying to make is that a comment that applies a passage such as Matthew 24 to the Church, [i][u]in no way[/u][/i] denies its relevance to Israel. So some parts of that passage could easily apply to both Israel and the Church in different ways.

Even though I firmly hold, as Paul said, and I have quoted here more than once, that it's "to the Jew FIRST".

Hope that makes sense?

I must read Matthew 24 again!

love in Him

Jeannette

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Thank you for your answer Katy-did.

Do you feel that the Saints will have to deal with the antichrist for a while ?

I'm just enjoying this thread.
Didn't make it to the Evening Service, so fellowshipping here has been a pleasant filler.

I like to see where we can walk on common ground. Debates come hard to me, so enjoying a thread like this has been enjoyable. I've enjoyed Kato since the other day too.
Bless you!

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Jeannette, I agree that all scripture is for use in Righteousness, and certainly the spiritual application of the Righteousness of God will apply in all of our lives. Even though we are not under Law, the Law is Righteous, and we are the Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.

I think Jews and Greeks THINK differently, and process and express themselves differently.

Saying many things the same,but in different ways.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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Hi Again He Reigns,

Do you feel that the Saints will have to deal with the antichrist for a while ?

I believe Thessalonians 2 Ch. 2 says he will be revealed to us. and then he who hinders will be taken out of the way. (I don't know if he is referring the church, or the Holy Spirit that is now working through the Church, but the Holy Spirit with or without the Church will still be active during the Great Tribulation that has never been or ever will be again Matt 24.)

Reading Thessalonians 2 mentions the Day of the Lord. In the OT, the Day of the Lord is the day of His wrath. ,not to be confused with The Lords Day, of which John speaks of in Rev 1.


To what extent I don't know, but we certainly are seeing the falling away right before our eyes faster then a speeding bullet.

The anti-christ also is that who comes up against Israel, gathering his arrogant gentile world powers (Mystery Babylon) also refer to Isaiah 14.

Looking at the Church..we in Christ are a 7. Perfect in Christ 7
Perfect in his rest 7
Perfected in His Sanctification in and through us 7,

and looking at those who fall short - man 6.

666 is the total embodiment of man without Christ.
Rev speaks of those who overcome the Beast and sing the song of Moses.....Israel. Have you read the story of Moses and the song of Moses in the OT. Now look at Rev, and you will see many things in comparativeness to their journey out of Egypt.

Many of the Judgments sound like a replay of the Wrath, and I will admit I don't know if they are or not. One is called Judgments and the other Bowls of Wrath.

"Hurt not the wine or the Oil" could possible be the True Church washed in the Blood(wine) and filled with the Holy Spirit( Oil).

Also the 144,000 prior to Rev 10:7 could mean as Paul stated in Romans 11...there is a remnant, according to the election of Grace...could the 144,000 be those who have always been with the Church since the beginning of the Church Age, possibly 5-7000 in each generation making up this 144,000. Paul said, unless God had left a remnant, we would be as Sodom and Gomorrah. Just a thought. I don't know.

Anyway, the spirit of anti-christ had always been from the beginning...Balaam can testify to that!

The actual person who sits in the Temple as though he were God...seems to be according to 2 Thessalonians 2 something of a different nature, and the falling away leading up to. AND according to 2 Thessalonians 2, many will actually believe he is God, as they will be allowed to believe their delusions, because they received not the Gospel that they might be saved.

There will be wonderful peace for 3 1/2 years, a covenant of Hell made with Israel until he turns on them.

So if perchance we do happen to be here for what ever amount of time, it is imperative no matter what we are totally Loyal to Israel. Continuing to preach the Gospel, of which I'm sure we will be killed for,and our loyalty to Israel, those who are alive at that time, until we are taken out of the way.

Well, What do you think?

Love in Christ
Katy-did

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What do I think ? I think that's close enough for me.

You brought up my only concern and that is for those who believe we'll be gone before the antichrist is revealed.
And don't see the dangers and clear timing of 2Thess2 - Exactly Sis.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.

That is the one portion of Scripture that matters the most at this juncture and you nailed it. "2Thess 2:10,11 .... because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie" and as you know, from the preceding verses there, that "the lie" is believing the antichrist.

Whether we agree on who "he" is in - 2Th 2:7 "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way." and the rest, matters little to me.
I believe the Vials are the Wrath as stated in Rev 15:1,Rev 15:7, Rev 16:1, Rev 16:19.

I believe we are Resurrected at the 7th trump of Revelation or the last trump as Paul said and you quoted.
We meet Him "in the air" as He is descending/returning with those who died in Christ first - and from the air - we return to earth with HIM and He has the vials pouring out just as we are caught up to 'meet' Him in the air.
Some pre-wrath folks have Him coming twice - I see only One Coming. Rev. 20:4-6 speaks of the "First" Resurrection.
So, to label what I believe, I suppose we would say Post-Trib/Pre-Wrath.
This I am firm in - but not to the point where I force it on anyone.
Only those who feel they will not be here to see and need to resist the antichrist - are those I feel concern for.
Thank you Katy. I really did/do appreciate your answer. :-)

Addition: Just remembered - you gave a link to "endtimepilgrim". I agree very much toward his beliefs I'd say - especially on the restrainer.
Thank you!

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HE_ Reigns:
You know I just thought of something else that needs serious consideration. The Man of Perdition
Judas was also called the son of perdition. Hummmmm!

John Chapter 6 has some very interesting insights into the character of those who betray Christ, why he considers them, those who will betray, and compares to Judas.

In The beginning of John 6, after Jesus feeds all these people, He says, lets leave before they try to make me KING. When they caught up with Him again, he asked, (I’m paraphrasing here) are you following me for me or just for the miracles. He told them what true discipleship was ( to eat my flesh and drink my blood...AKA..."I am Crucified with Christ, no longer I but Christ in me") Their reply was ...this is a hard saying...and left. Jesus asked his disciples, will you betray me ***too***! then continues to tell us about Judas.

Judas represents APOSTATE Israel, those who rejected the savior, but wanted Him to then take His throne and overthrow Caesar, or Rome.

Now, look at APOSTATE Christianity, and compare Judas with this. Many are too rejecting the savior, and the Cross, opting rather for Dominionism, Miracles etc. Judas SOLD Jesus out for MONEY, just as the Church is today. And Dominionism is selling out Jesus Christ, the message of the Gospel, the Cross, The Blood. They will get their KING all right, the KING of Perdition. And this may very well be where anti-Christ arises from.

All these false gospels coming together in one form or fashion.

No we must never compromise the Truth for the sake of unholy alliances.

Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-Did

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Correction, it wasn't about the mircles, it was food. I'm glad I re-read John 6.

So as I'm re-reading this I remembered ESAU, who sold his birth-right for a morsel of FOOD. Well, food is not a sin, but instant gratification at any cost is. This is prosperity teaching. Instant, name it claim it me, me, me. now, now , now.

Esau represents the kind of person God hates. God didn't hate Esau, but what Esau represents, earthly man, who only thinks about earthly gratification. The opposite of those who die to self, and can wait for their DOVE award, at the Judgement seat of Christ.

666 is the total sum of man gratifying man with greed, lust and power of the things of this earth. Those who have rejected the Gospel, that they might be saved and translated out of this present evil age into the Kingdom of His Dear Son (for if we have been planted together in the likeness of His death, we shall be also in the likeness of His resurrection.)

And if ye be Christs, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to promise. Gal 3:29

As Isaac was, so are we...obedient unto death.

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Good points Katy. Both with Judas and the "fish and bread" followers.
I read the whole Something Horrible thread the other night and the thoughts going through my mind during and after were so many I just had to just get off line after posting a quick one and let it all sink in.
I was feeling what the unprepared or those in denial would feel. Reading for some reason from that angle.
I suppose because I've heard it all already, that I slipped into the other mode because God wanted me to.
To see how it would either anger a person to read that thread or they'd want to just put it out of their minds and go on to the next subject or just get quiet with God for a while and let The Lord speak to them and then through His Word.
I'm happy you and LittleGift and the others are willing to talk about these things.
You wouldn't believe some of the sites I visit in one day. I'll just put two here, but multiply this by at least 10 a day - somedays more.
Some people would ask Why? Well, I go to these for the people asking "What?" instead of why.
I'm not a legalist when I say this, but I truly believe we should buffet our bodies and get them used to fasting for the future.
A person would be surprised what a bondage that food can actually be, when they start to try to fast. We're spoiled as you know. Three meals a day and we don't work as hard as our brothers in slave labor do in China on maybe some rice and Lord knows what.
You mentioned Esau - imagine what he traded for his "Birth-right" ?!
You were right to bring that up and even Judas, as the Lord said, that brothers or family will be turning in and on others and why ?
The thing is, some think most of this stuff is yet to come - I can't express right now how already "there" we are.
The people of this country with the really BIG bucks, are funding Org.s to bring in this one world thing and we're almost all the way there -- but no one who 'should' know does know or wants to know - though they've been told to 'watch'.
We just read our Christian stuff and watch the TV news and life just goes on.
In the meantime, the big money is going to exterminate us. Go ahead, make my day but the New Agers already said that they know we'll "be happier" if they send us to our "other dimension". So they'll be happy and we'll be happy. Everybodies happy, except the ones who should have known it was coming but were to busy trying not to think about it. Makes you want to yell - Hey Wake-Up!
Well, there's a few Christian sites out there that report on these things.
Lighthousetrailsresearch does some and ones like it. But check out these two secular ones I looked at tonight.
http://www.worldparliamentgov.net/

http://www.worldwatch.org/taxonomy/term/115

That's just two milder ones. Others from the big "Think Tanks" and Universities as we sit here arguing over the things we do. Amazing.

I love your last line. I'll make it mine here too.

As Isaac was, so are we...obedient unto death.

God Bless and Thanks, I enjoyed your posts.

C
Christinyou

"""As Isaac was, so are we...obedient unto death."""


Is this refering to Christ? He is the only one obedient to death. Even in Him are we also.

Phl 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

In Christ: Phillip

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Brother Philip, I do believe that Katy-did meant, "compared" to the others - he remained faithful until he died.

I know that is what I got out of her post and what I also related to -

Rev 2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days; [u]be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.[/u]

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He_ Reigns,

I looked at these 2 articles you posted. WOW! I didn't know it had gone this far.

I too enjoyed our conversation! I Hope you stay on line here. You have a lot to offer.
LOve in Christ
Katy-Did

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"""As Isaac was, so are we...obedient unto death."""

You know Phillip, One thing the Lord Showed me that was so totally awesome...and the real gem is in Hebrews 11.

What *exactly* is the author saying is the EVIDENCE of those who have TRUE Faith...obedience unto death. Starting from Abel to those who were sawn asunder, who died without the Promise. They didn't die without the promise of Salvation, but they died without SEEING the Promise that came with the Death and resurrection of Jesus Christ...the Promise of the Holy Spirit indwelt.

Moses chose to suffer the reproach of Christ with the people of God, then to enjoy the treasures of Egypt (the world).

Joseph refused to bow to Pharaoh...at point of death.

Little Isaac, lay on an alter, having complete trust in his father, and no mention of a whimper.

Shadrack, Meshak and Abendigo were thrown into a furnace refusing to bow to King Neb.

OH it goes on and on and on. It’s all there!

Everything they went through was for US!!! And everything we go through is for the NEXT.

I wonder, what are we leaving behind. Everyone is all wrapped up in the series “ Left Behind”, but what about someone writing a series “ What we are leaving behind”.

If perchance we are not alive during the Great Tribulation, do you wonder about the two witnesses ?

They are so hated that the whole world REJOICES and sends presents to one another because they are dead. Why such a hard heart. I think it says no one repented. But only as they rose up from the dead, did anyone Give Glory to God. Not before.

But I’m sure it had a lot to do with being conditioned with Political correctness, and all this peace, love, dove , we’re told to live in some sort of unity with?! Or risk being called “ The troublemakers” the ones who cause dissention, ect, ect. People will be so conditioned to say nothing by the time they get here, they will be the ones called the troublemakers and rabble rousers…who cause discord in the Church, or the World, ALL THE WHILE , being sent by God, at one final attempt to bring souls to repentance. YET look at the hardness of their hearts. You can see it already working in this manner right now.

Yet, even so, God is still saying WHOSOEVER WILL!


Those who don’t believe in Whosoever Will have NO CLUE, no clue at all. It's teh ones who do who are willing to lay down their own lives to spread teh Good News. Just ask those in other Countries tonight, how many were killed for having a Bible, and sharing the Gospel at the risk of their own death.

More then we know. They put us to shame shame shame!

Love In Christ
Katy-did

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Katy - All I can say is AMEN sister - Preach it!
In Love of course. :-D

C
Christinyou

I thought that is what you were saying. Isaac's death was not our salvation, but it was a picture of Christ's death for us, and leads us into the Cross, our death with Him, leads us into His resurrection, and leads us into His Life, that Isaac blessed Jacob with, It truly is The Faith of Christ that we live by and as He is so are we in this world. In blessing Jacob instead of the first born, Jacob became the seed barer of Christ through the line unto Mary. Hebrews 11:39-40 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect. Amen.

Love in Christ: Phillip

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Phillip,

We're talking about the WALK of a Christian. You quoted Philippians 2, but you failed to begin at the beginning of Chapter two. Actually it would be good to start at the very beginning of Philippians to get what Paul is talking about. The Book of Philippians is not a book on how to get saved.

The Book of Philippians is a continuation of the MYSTERY Paul built upon, and is continuing to unfold, and that is our WALK.

Notice in the Beginning of Chapter 2, or just prior to the verse you quoted about Jesus becoming obedient unto death......do you see the words

"Keeping this mind in you that was also in Christ Jesus".....

You know, the Author of Hebrews states their walk and obedience unto death was SOOOOOOOOOOO much more difficult because they weren't indwelt yet with the Holy Spirit...saying the world is not even worthy of them.

They looked forward to the Cross (the true Circumcision, and YES even in the OT, it was the Heart, the ears).

Even John the Baptist knew who Jesus was...Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the World.

John said , He who comes after me is preferred before me, signifying redeemer before Kingdom. His ministry of the Kingdom restored to Israel, that was lost and scattered after Solomon.

Now these true believers in the Lamb of God, came upon great opposition of the Pharisees, those without faith, who lived strictly by the LAW. Now, the LAW was good, but the LAW could never save, and was never meant to save, and they should have known that.

Even Job said, I know that my redeemer liveth, and I shall see him in the last day.
Job also said, tho He slay me...yet will I trust in HIM.

Job was a believer, and that is why he was considered righteous and just in God's eyes. Satan didn't want to sift him because he was just a good man, one who didn't even keep law, as no mention of a Sabbath rest etc are mentioned. But he did keep the law of sacrifice, going all the way back to Adam & Eve. He knew the Promise of The Redeemer.

If you look beneath the surface, you will see the cost of being tested (our faith) of those who do. You think that only came when Jesus Died and Rose again?

But then again, anyone who doesn’t believe in free will, or Whosoever will, will not see these scriptures in the light of that truth. For if one thinks themselves to be a robot with out a will or choices, why would God have to test them to begin with? He tests us as well, so we, through that testing, can prove God’s faithfulness. As we grow strong, in the Grace and Knowledge of Jesus Christ, strengthened, established and settled ( AFTER we have suffered awhile) we are called into this world, knowing no matter what we face, we have been strengthened to endure.

The problem with so many Christian leaders falling is, they ran ahead, right out of the shoot, probably handed a Sunday school quarterly and asked to teach a Sunday school class, also given one of those man made humanism tests that tell you what your spiritual Gift is and before you know it we have here in, another baby Christian calling himself a prophet of God………....later is exalted, all men worship, …..comes crashing down, Satan laughs ( as he was appealing to his vanity to begin with) and all are laughing at Christians.

Remember Paul sat 14 years behind a Mountain, and another 8 making tents and who knows what tests he went through at that time to prepare him to WHAT? Go around and say….Me, Me, I can’t believe God picked ME. NO, Rather He took that calling and saw the AMAGING Grace that God would save whom he felt himself the Chief of Sinners, and set him on fire to preach to OTHER SINNERS about this Amazing Jesus Christ who died for the SIN of the whole world. In DOING SO, along with PETER, they both were killed for preaching the Gospel….which was politically incorrect not only with Rome but with the Pharisee’s!


Well, time for work,

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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Katy - your last two paragraphs had truth in them that shook me. I'd like to post this for that reason and for reference on other present day topics. Lord Bless you and all and brokenvessel.
Jesus said, "Do not be deceived" and "Watch".
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[b]To Judge or To Judge Not?[/b]
By Kato Mivule
Uganda, Africa
www.YesuMulungi.com

[b]To Judge or Judge not, which is which? Are we Supposed To Criticize?[/b]

I have had many aggravated here in Uganda, Africa over the issue of Discernment were by some accusations have been flying left and right from "Pious African Christians" that we are "Judging", "Critical", and we are "To Judge Not"...

In Africa we have a cultural barrier when it comes to Bible Discernment and Righteous Judgment...Leaders especially African Village Chiefs are highly esteemed in African Cultures that it is a very bad omen to speak out against them or question them. African Leaders also take advantage of such weakness in the African Cultures by claiming that all who stand to oppose them will receive "Curses"...

This trend can be seen across Africa's Political Platform were Presidents assume a Deity Role and assume life Presidency often ending up in a dictatorship. Such thinking that I call the 'African Village Chief Mentality' has sadly taken the African Church by storm...

It is a shame that so-called Christian leaders have taken on this 'African Village Chief Mentality' and threaten all who question their activities and false doctrines with "Curses", Excommunication, and persecutions including death threats. These so-called Church leaders in Africa threaten their constituents by telling them that they should never "Touch the Anointed of God" and never speak against the "Man of God", those who do so are told they will receive "Curses"...

This has been one reason why Discernment and Righteous Judgment is not exercised in most African Churches as the believers walk and live in pure fear. As such the "Man of God" is free to teach whatever False Doctrine they desire... The African Church Leaders reign over their churches with an iron fist and nothing short of the Nicolaitanes Doctrine...

However, is this what the Bible teaches? Is this what Jesus Christ and the Apostles taught? So, we take a look at the scriptures below and see what the Whole Counsel of God's Word says...

Many have also made a tragic mistake of thinking that Pharisees don't exist in our so-called churches today, and that if they do exist they remain in the confines of Denominations like the Roman Catholic Church, Anglican Church and other Religions...this is nothing short of joining those who say Satan does not exist, that if he does he must be confined with those who practice witchcraft...

Such folks with this line of thinking forget that the most established 'Pharisees' of our day belong in the Prosperity Purpose Driven Political Dominionism Evangelistic Movement and can clearly be seen with their flashy and pompous so-called ministries across TBN and other "Christian" TV outlets around the world....

So, to simply "judge" and say that 'Pharisees' don't exist today is not to exercise discernment and not judging properly and righteously as we shall see below...

What was Paul doing when he warned the Galatians, Corinthians against FALSE TEACHERS? What was Peter and Jude doing in warning the believers in their epistles against false prophets and false teachers? What Was Jesus doing in Matthew 23?

What was Jesus Christ doing when He warned his disciples about False Prophets, the Yeast of the Pharisees, and the Yeast of Herod? Was Jesus Christ simply rebuking Pharisees of His day and that was it? Does the Bible Self Contradict? Does Jesus Christ speak one thing then another next time and self contradict? Are we trying to accuse Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, James, Jude of Flip-flopping?

Do you suppose that So-called Born again Christians today have not Rejected Jesus Christ? Really, really, really??? Well, not until the Bible Scriptures prove otherwise…

Greek Words for Judge is…
Okay, well, lets take a look at the original Greek word ‘Judge’ and then we can verify what the Bible is speaking about. The Bible offers no Contradictions. The misunderstanding of the word ‘Judge’ and pious phrase most Christians use, “Judge Not” , comes from not reading the Whole Counsel of God’s Word and lack of study of God’s Word.

Many Christians simply accuse those who ‘Judge Righteously’ as simply being “Critical”, “Filled with bitterness”, “Filled with hate”, “they hate my Pastor yet he is a Man of God…” and all the lazy excuses we give in entertaining false doctrines and the lies of Men…so let the Greek Words help us…

Judge: Strong's Number: 350 Anakrino
examine or judge
to investigate, examine, enquire into, scrutinize, sift, question
specifically in a forensic sense of a judge to hold an investigation
to interrogate, examine the accused or witnesses
to judge of, estimate, determine (the excellence or defects of any person or thing

Judge: Strong's Number: 1252 Diakrino
to separate, make a distinction, discriminate, to prefer
to learn by discrimination, to try, decide
to determine, give judgment, decide a dispute
to withdraw from one, desert
to separate one's self in a hostile spirit, to oppose, strive with dispute, contend
to be at variance with one's self, hesitate, doubt

Judge: Strong's Number: 1348 Dikastes
judge, arbitrator, umpire

Judge: Strong's Number: 2919 Krino
to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
to approve, esteem, to prefer
to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
to determine, resolve, decree
to judge
to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
to rule, govern
to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
to contend together, of warriors and combatants
to dispute
in a forensic sense
to go to law, have suit at law

Judge: Strong's Number: 2922 Kriterion
the instrument or means of trying or judging anything
the rule by which one judges
the place where judgment is given
the tribunal of a judge
a bench of judges
the matter judged, thing to be decided, suit, case

Judge: Strong's Number: 2923 Krites
one who passes or arrogates to himself, judgment on anything
an arbiter
of a Roman procurator administering justice
of God passing judgment on men
of the leaders or rulers of the Israelites

Judge: Strong's Number: 2924 Kritikos

1. relating to judging, fit for judging, skilled in judging


"Judge Not?" Does the Bible Self-Contradict?
So, did Jesus not say first remove the beam (log) in your eye and then remove the mote (speck) from your neighbours? Was he refusing judging?

Did He not state that He himself judges righteously?

Is there no Righteous Judgment?

Does not the spiritual man judge all things and is judged by no one?

So, what is the context of judge not?

It is simple, if you practice evil or still struggle with evil and a certain sin in your life, then you can judge no one while practicing the same thing...

First get delivered from that sin then go and deliver others after you are free...

>>[u]The Bible forbids to Judge Unrighteous based on outside appearance, foods, days, festivals etc as the scriptures below show[/u]…

Romans 14: (Krino = To Condemn, Damn) …unrighteous judgment based on foods, days, drinks, etc…
1 Corinthians 10:23-33 (Krino = To Condemn, Damn)…unrighteous judgment based on foods…
Colossians 2:16-17 (Krino = To Condemn, Damn)…unrighteous judgments based on foods, drinks, holidays etc…
1 Corinthians 4:1-5 (Krino = To Condemn, Damn in Verse 5... Anakrino in previous = To Examine)…forbidden to premature judgment based on outward appearance in context of Paul going to the Corinthians in Chapter 1 and 2…In Uganda for instance, the “anointed” preacher is judged to be “anointed’ if they drive a New SUV, Fly First Class, live in a Mansion, have a 8000 Church etc, yet many True Anointed preachers who have nothing are prematurely judged by men in the flesh…
>>Again in this scripture we are forbidden to judge by outside appearance or by The Standards of this world, this includes status, riches, class, race, ethnic back ground, educational background etc…this is very common in many Prosperity Purpose Driven Churches and among Preachers who preach Riches, wealth and materialism…

James 2:1-13 (Krites = A Judge; Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, Judge Rightly, To Condemn, Damn = Unrighteous Judgment )
1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

>>[u]But WE MUST JUDGE AND JUDGE RIGHTEOUSLY BASED ON GOD’S HOLY WORD[/u]….
>>Judge After You Have Removed the Log out of your Eye first…
>>Then you can help others...first get delivered to deliver others…
>>First get deliverance from evil doctrines and then help others who are bound…

Matthew 7:1-5 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, Judge Rightly, To Condemn, Damn = Unrighteous Judgment)
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

>>[u]Jesus says that Judge with RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT[/u]…

John 7:24 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, To Condemn, Damn = Unrighteous Judgment)
24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Luke 7:43 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Determined Rightly; Called into Question Rightly = Righteous Judging)
43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

2 Corinthians 10:7 (Prosopon = Surface; Outside appearance)
7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? if any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

>>Why Don’t you yourselves Judge what is Right?

Luke 12:56-57 (Dokimazo = Examine; Determine; Test; ...Krino = Question Rightly)
56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

>>[u]Prove, Judge, Discern ALL Things…Hold to The Good[/u]

1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 (Dokimazo = Examine; Determine; Test; Prove; Try)
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

>>[u]The Spiritual Man Judges ALL things[/u]…

1 Corinthians 2:11-16 (Anakrino = Question; Investigate; Interrogate; Scrutinize; Discern; Judge Rightly)
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

>> Paul says…”Judge ye what I say”…

1 Corinthians 10:15 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, Judge Rightly)
15 I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.

>>[u]Be AWARE of FALSE PROPHETS[/u]…
>>How can you be AWARE of false prophets is you don’t judge righteously?????
>>You SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS…
>>How can you know them by their Fruits if Don’t Judge????

Matthew 7:15-20 (Prosecho = Be Aware, Pay Attention, Be Cautious, Take Heed)
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

>>What is our Standard of Righteous Judgment???
>>Is it not the Word of God?
>>We Judge basing on God’s Holy and True Word…
>>If they live and teach contrary to scripture there is no light in them!

Isaiah 8:20
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

>>Avoid those who teach contrary to Sound Doctrine…
>>How can you AVOID them if you Judge not righteously???
>>…They serve their own belly = Prosperity Movement???
>>They give fair speeches (feel good messages) to deceive the simple…

Romans 16:17-18 (Skopeo = Mark Them, Take Heed, Consider)
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple…

>>ALL scriptures below require Righteous Judgment Based on God’s Word…
>>Unless you “Judge not”, then you cannot accept these scriptures…

2 Corinthians 6: 14-18 (Aphorizo = Separate, Sever, Exclude, Divide)
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

2 Timothy 3:5 (Apotrepo = Turn Away, Deflect, Avoid)
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 (Stello = Avoid, Withdraw Yourself, Abstain from Associating with)
6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Ephesians 5:11 (Elegcho = Reprove, Confute, Admonish, Tell A Fault, Rebuke)
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Romans 12:9 (Apostugeo = Abhor, To Utterly Detest)
9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

>>[u]We are COMMANDED to TEST every spirit[/u]…
>>How are you going to Test, if you “Judge not”?
>>…For many False Prophets are gone out in the world…

>>So, Brothers and Sisters, Try, Test, Discern, Judge, all Spirits…
>>False teachers and preachers will detest the Life of Christ Jesus in them…
>>They hate to live after the example of Jesus Christ…to carry our Cross and follow Him…

>>They hate to live for Christ Jesus and Jesus Christ living in them…

>>…Which means death to the fleshly desires, things of this world, the prosperity comfy gospel, the get rich quick gospel…it means a life of persecution, being hated by the world, giving to the poor, storing up riches in Heaven and not earthly possessions…it means adhering to The Words of Jesus Christ…false teachers, ministries, apostles, prophets hate this because Christ Lives Not in Them…

>>They speak always of The World, the riches, money, fame, popularity, how to build mega million dollar buildings, glamorous cars, Elite Traveling, Mansions and the best indulgence they can get from the world; therefore the world loves them and cherishes them because Truly they belong to the world…for them godliness is a means of gain…and the world listens to them because they are of the world…

1 John 4:1-6 (Dokimazo = Try, Examine, Discern, Prove, Test)
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

>>Friendship with this world is enmity with God…
>>If you are in love with this world, you are an enemy of God…
>>Many Churches today are adulteresses…in love with this world and hating Jesus Christ their Bridegroom, Head, Husband and King…

James 4:4
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God

>>Therefore James 4:11 speaks about the unrighteous judgment of judging by outside appearance that James speaks about in James 2, otherwise Jesus, Paul and James are self contradicting which is not the case…

>>[u]EXAMINE yourself to see if you are still in the faith[/u]…
>>How can you do this if you don’t self-judge???
>>Judge yourself based on God’s word so as not to be judged with the world…

2 Corinthians 13:5 (Peirazo = Examine, Scrutinize, Prove, Try; Dokimazo = Prove, Discern, Approve, Examine, Test , Try)
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1 Corinthians 11:31-32 (Diakrino = Judge Ourselves, Separate Thoroughly, Discern, Judge; Krino = Condemn, Damm, Decree, Determine, Call in Question)
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

>>[u]Judge those within the Church with Righteous Judgment Based on God’s Word[/u]…

1 Corinthians 5:11-12 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Determine, Judge, Try, Conclude, Decree, Think, Decide)
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

>>[u]Judge Prophets and their Prophesy[/u]…Deuteronomy 18:20-22, Jeremiah 14 and Jeremiah 28 speak about the same thing and not being afraid of Prophets who prophesy of their own accord…but JUDGE ALL PROPHETS AND PROPHESY based on God’s Word…

1 Corinthians 14:29 (Diakrino = Separate Thoroughly, Discern, Judge, Contend, Discriminate)
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

>>We are forbidden to Judge the Brethren using world standards and taking them to courts of Law…this thing is very common among Prosperity Movement as they fight over Control of Material Wealth…

>>We are settle disputes among brethren we ourselves and Judge our selves…
>>So, how do we carry out such Judgment in 1 Corinthians 6 and “Judge not”?

1 Corinthians 6 (Krino = Judge, Properly Distinguish, Call in Question, Condemn, Sentence To, Conclude; Kriterion = A Rule of Judging, Tribunal, Judgment, To Judge)
1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

>>[u]We are supposed to grow up spiritually and be able to discern, judge, prove, test, try ALL things based on God’s Word and discern between good and evil[/u]…

Hebrews 5:11-14 (Diakrisis = Discern, Judicial Estimation, Disputation)
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

>>We must grow and abound in more knowledge and ALL judgment…
>>This is to grow in the knowledge of Christ = His Holy Word and All Judgment…
>>So, we can then Judge Righteously based on God’s Holy Word…

Philippians 1:9-10 (Aiathesis = Discernment, Judgment)
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

Conclusion...
If I am freed by God's Holy Word from Prosperity Doctrines, Mega-Church Building Teachings, the False Doctrine of Tithes from Hell, Nicolaitanes Doctrines of one Man Pastor Ministries, Balaam Doctrine of Greed, and Materialism, Political Christianity, Rapture before Tribulation (Pre-Trib) False Doctrine, Church Growth Movement, Purpose Driven False Doctrine, and many many more, so I can speak out against such Heresies just as Paul the Apostle did clearly with His mandate and approval from God...

Christians Today need to be more Discerning and to Judge with Righteous Judgment Based on God's Holy Word. There are many False Prophets that have gone throughout the world. Many of them are on TBN, the likes of Joyce Meyer, Kim Clement, Rod Parsley, Paul Crouch, Ben Hinn, Joel Osteen, and almost 99% of the TBN family...being a part of this False TBN Family and associating and supporting it makes one engage in their False Doctrines and Teachings, especially the Prosperity and Political Christianity Dominionism Doctrines...

In Africa we have Copycats of the TBN Family and because people are poor, many tend to see the rich affluent Preachers on TBN as Holy and True and simply believe all their False Teachings without question...this ought not to be so...

Acts 17:10-12 (Anakrino = Searched, Scrutinize, Investigate, Interrogate, Determine, Question, Ask, Discern, Examine, Judge)
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

True Christians act like the Berean Christians and Search the Scriptures Daily to see if those things preachers today say are so...yes, they will question everything, judge All things, Discern and Prove if all what preachers say is true...Apostate Christians are forbidden by their Pastor Preachers from doing so by telling them out of simplicity that, "Judge Not" while they feed them with False Doctrines from Satan and Hell...

[i]Yes, I pray that we continue to grow in the Knowledge of Christ Jesus, His Holy Word so we can Rightly discern between Good and Evil...the days are evil and the Great Apostasy is happening before our own eyes...

Yes, as True Christians and Holy Saints of God, we are called to Judge ALL Things and to Judge Righteously, The Word of God being our Basis...Amen.[/i]

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He-Reigns:
Thanks for posting that article. WOW! Even Paul said “WAKE UP“!!!!! Seems as though many have fallen asleep at the wheel.

How foolish for anyone to give honor to meer men, just because they are someone's daughter or son. A Doctor or famous person who got saved, and just because of that we think they are God's spokesman.

ALSO remember we are a BODY, and we work together as a BODY. When someone claims they were chosen to lead the way, and become exalted above all the other members of the BODY..watch out...red flag!!!

It is GOD who approves, not men. Even Paul, the 12th Apostle, was not chosen by the remaining 11. So even Apostles don't have power to exalt anyone.

TRUE Christianity IS NOT POPULAR, so when you see those who have millions following..... beware...that's a red flag right there. If Jesus were on earth today, He couldn't get elected as Dog Catcher...that is A FACT. Christinity has not changed from the beginning and it will get WORSE as we get closer to the return of the Lord. THAT is a FACT!!!! ** 2 Timothy 2

We are shunned for speaking the truth. Actually it's made me even bolder and bolder as time goes on. I know the time is short. I know I'm saved, I know they can kill my body, but my heart, mind and soul my all in all belong to the Lord.

There is an awesome verse in Psalms, I believe in Psalms 66:

(para-phrasing here) We went through fire and water...they rode over our heads, but the Lord brought us out into …well you read it…I say, Mt. Sion, the Mt .of Amazing Grace with Hudspa to go with it!!!!

That would be equal to …Rev 3: "buy of me gold tried in the fire that you may be rich…with eyes to see and ears to hear. Your utterly LOST without them!!!!!

I love Job’s words when he went through his trial….I SHALL COME FORTH AS GOLD.

Well, the GOLD is the WORD of God. And all else is wood hay and stubble.

Paul said to Timothy, In Timothy “ In my fathers house there are vessels of honor and vessels of dishonor“.

Don’t forget we are called to be soldiers as well. We fight the good fight of faith.

Jesus said, I didn’t come to bring peace but a sword…and HIS WORD is that Sword.

One would ask, “ why does God prepare us through those fiery trials……?

Ephesians 3, “We are strengthened with MIGHT in the Inner man…to know the height, depth, length and width, of none other that Jesus Christ, and the Wisdom and Knowledge in Him, passing to His Saints…His Chase Virgins who refuse to go whoring around and compromising with the world, and anything that exalts itself against and above the WORD of God.

Do you see in Revelation….“He who sits on a White Horse…and His name is Called the WORD OF GOD, and his vesture dipped in Blood“. That is such a profound verse!!!!


You know all that cursing and curse stuff started with Benny Hinn when he was criticized for what he was teaching. These are wells without water…spewing up their own shame.

These are End Times, who are making the way for anti-christ to take his, or should I say, the Throne of David, and will actually believe he is Jesus Christ…because they knew not the scriptures.

Thanks for your post He Reigns!!!!!! Keep posting!!!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did


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Katy, thank you for your post. Love rejoices at Truth.

ALSO remember we are a BODY, and we work together as a BODY. When someone claims they were chosen to lead the way, and become exalted above all the other members of the BODY..watch out...red flag!!!

Two major facts there. No lone-rangers either way. Even the prophets are accountable to the others. We're the Body - [b]He's[/b] The Head.
Sis, if you're shunned for Truth, you still tell the Truth. That's love. It seems humans have His love strangely defined. If one fears not being "liked" for telling the truth - that isn't love but self-love. If we are always looking at self - we'll fall for sure. Precious are the wounds of a friend. Yes, we must say things from a sincere and fervent love for people, but the reaction from most, the Word says, won't be "liking you". He said, if they hated Him they'll hate His people. No matter how sweet you try to be, they'll still hate you. Yet, continue to tell the truth in love.
Considering the verses you posted - I'd rather stay in His Love and Truth than compromise, just to be just a little more comfortable in this world and to "make friends and influence people. John the Baptist and the Apostles didn't write that book. Almost all were killed. Do we think we won't be ?
Yes, it will get worse, as you've said. The multitudes will turn against His Saints.
Well, you posted my favorite verse and I got happy reading it. These passages make my blood move. Can't even begin to fathom the sight this will be.
Whenever any of us are discouraged or oppressed, think of these, that you've posted in part ---

First these fools gather -

Rev 16:12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
Rev 16:13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

And then the sky is rent -

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
Rev 19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Rev 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;
Rev 19:18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshiped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 19:21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Yes! Victory by "The Word of God". That sure is "the Gold". How worth it all it will be on That Day. Unimaginable. Incredible. And to think of the petty things that we think or worry about. Our love [b]must[/b] be for The Word of God First. Yes!

Sis, how many times I've closed my mind off to everything else and tried to picture this/His Return. Mind boggling. "And every eye shall see Him" - words fail for this.
As soon as I saw that you had posted Rev 19:13 my heart started to skip for joy.
These are encouraging words and we're to encourage each other along. Sometimes, some "encouragers" are like Marine Boot Camp Instructors - but it works. How are we to think that our Commander and Chief - The King of kings - would give us an easier boot-camp then that ? We're training to go through some "perilous times" - yes, you're right there - spiritual warfare as never seen before in human history - so how is it that we want to be pampered ? I'd say - Lord - send in your Drill Instructor SIR - Get us ready to get through as Overcomers. These days, it seems we want a Spa and back rubs instead. Soaking in the whirlpool doesn't make Overcomers.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the Coming of the Lord;
He is trampling out the vintage where the grapes of wrath are stored;
He hath loosed the fateful lightning of His terrible swift sword;
His Truth is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! His truth is marching on.

I have read a fiery Gospel writ in burnished rows of steel;
“As ye deal with My contemners, so with you My grace shall deal”;
Let the Hero, born of woman, crush the serpent with His heel,
Since God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Since God is marching on.

He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment seat;
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet;
Our God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Our God is marching on.

In the beauty of the lilies Christ was born across the sea,
With a glory in His bosom that transfigures you and me:
As He died to make men holy, let us live to make men free;
[originally …let us die to make men free]
While God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! While God is marching on.

He is Coming like the Glory of the morning on the wave,
He is wisdom to the mighty, He is honor to the brave;
So the world shall be His footstool, and the soul of wrong His slave,
Our God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Our God is marching on.


Sis, Thank you for loving & lifting up The Word of God - and you keep posting too. :-)

M
Miccah

Whew. I just got done reading all of this. You all can sure post some long postings :-)

I am post-trib. But let me ask...what does it matter? We all need to live ready for Him to come. I feel that if Father chooses to take me before the great trib, Great! If not, Great!

The question is...Are you ready if you are right? Are you ready if your wrong? Break off the spirit of religion and move to the spirit of God.

Many blessings

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Miccah and He Reigns:

Everything in the OT was for an example for us. I love Judges, and one of the most telling tales is Judges 6:

Now, it's not about Deborah, so I'm not trying to exalt women here. It's about what she is saying.

Listen:

6In the days of Shamgar the son of Anath, in the days of Jael, the highways were unoccupied, and the travellers walked through byways.

7The inhabitants of the villages ceased, they ceased in Israel, until that I Deborah arose, that I arose a mother in Israel.

[b][color=CC0000]8They chose new gods; then was war in the gates: was there a shield or spear seen among forty thousand in Israel? [/color][/b]

9My heart is toward the governors of Israel, that offered themselves willingly among the people. Bless ye the LORD.

10Speak, ye that ride on white asses, ye that sit in judgment, and walk by the way.

11They that are delivered from the noise of archers in the places of drawing water, there shall they rehearse the righteous acts of the LORD, even the righteous acts toward the inhabitants of his villages in Israel: then shall the people of the LORD go down to the gates.

Have a Blessed Day in the Lord!!!

Love in Christ
Katy-did

M
Miccah


Katy-did wrote:
Miccah and He Reigns:

Everything in the OT was for an example for us. I love Judges, and one of the most telling tales is Judges 6:

I see you are pre-trib. Still the question remians below.

The question is...Are you ready if you are right? Are you ready if your wrong? Break off the spirit of religion and move to the spirit of God.

Are you ready? Are you ready regardless of what you think you know, and what I think I know? Are you ready for the Lord to come and shake everything that can be shaken?

What will happen if everything that you have is stripped away and all that you have left is God? Are you ready for that day?

Look at the Church in states without freedom of religion...they are persecuted for Christs sake. They are killed, tortured, raped, beaten and much more. Are you prepared for that day to come against you?

Are you prepared to harbor those that will kill you? Are you prepared to give it all, your family, your friends, your job, your life for the sake of the Kingdom?


This is what I mean by "be ready".


Luke 12:35-37 (NKJV)

35 “Let your waist be girded and your lamps burning; 36 and you yourselves be like men who wait for their master, when he will return from the wedding, that when he comes and knocks they may open to him immediately. 37 Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them.

You be like men who wait for their master.

In Christ

Miccah

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Are you prepared to harbor those that will kill you? Are you prepared to give it all, your family, your friends, your job, your life for the sake of the Kingdom?

Miccah,

When I gave my life to the Lord, I gave Him ALL, and was translated out of this present evil age into the Kingdom of His Dear Son, Jesus Christ.

I'm not sure I'm pre-trib, and not sure if Revelation 10:7 is pre or mid or pre-mid, or what, but I know:

1st John says,

We don't know what we will be, but we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He is.

Christians are no longer part of this world system, in anyway, shape or form...or at least this is our calling to the Church.

Jesus Christ is my HOPE, not a kingdom. And today, since there are so many Kingdoms that people are referring to, I want to know exactly what Kingdom you are referring to.

The Kingdom of God
The Kingdom of Heaven
The Coming Kingdom Restored to Israel Acts 1:6&7
The Kingdom of His Dear Son, Jesus Christ.

To suggest one has never suffered unless one suffers through the Great tribulation is nonsense.

Our whole life is the fellowship of His Sufferings. So once again, one must discern their suffering, and make sure you are suffering for the right reasons, and for the right Kingdom.


You ask, if the Lord were to return today would I be ready…..Well, I’m as ready as ready can be.

If I should suffer MORE than I have suffered all ready, would I be ready……Well, The suffering I have all ready gone through HAS prepared me to endure, or even die if need be. I know I will be with the Lord. I HAVE PEACE WITH GOD, and I have the PEACE OF GOD.

I would give my life for the sake of the Gospel, and keep singing those praises the Jesus Christ came into this world to save sinners. To translate us out of this present evil age into the Kingdom of His Dear Son. And as Paul told those in Rome before he was beheaded, when he stood to preach the GOSPEL to them,

Acts 26:

17Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,

18To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

19Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:


What about You? Are you ready? And what Kingdom are you prepared to give your life for? Or rather, WHO are you prepared to give your life for.....THE LOST PERHAPS!!!????!!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

Added:
PS, also remember, we are PERFECTED in LOVE, and perfect love casts out fear.....

Did Stephen show fear when he was stoned to death? NO! He looked up to heaven and said:
I see Jesus, sitting at the Right Hand of God!

M
Miccah


Are you prepared to harbor those that will kill you? Are you prepared to give it all, your family, your friends, your job, your life for the sake of the Kingdom?


Jesus Christ is my HOPE, not a kingdom. And today, since there are so many Kingdoms that people are referring to, I want to know exactly what Kingdom you are referring to.

The Kingdom of God
The Kingdom of Heaven
The Coming Kingdom Restored to Israel Acts 1:6&7
The Kingdom of His Dear Son, Jesus Christ.

The Kingdom. The Kingdom is the Kingdom. Not to be confussed with different theologies or timelines taught on the subject.

To suggest one has never suffered unless one suffers through the Great tribulation is nonsense.

I could not agree more. But that is a different topic.

Our whole life is the fellowship of His Sufferings. So once again, one must discern their suffering, and make sure you are suffering for the right reasons, and for the right Kingdom.

One Kingdom (with many different theologies from man that will all say their own theology is the right theology. This is dangeous btw, many are headed under a spirit of religion), headed by God. God's Kingdom is absolute.

Miccah


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One Kingdom (with many different theologies from man that will all say their own theology is the right theology. This is dangeous btw, many are headed under a spirit of religion), headed by God. God's Kingdom is absolute.

Miccah,

We are told to RIGHTLT divide the word of Truth.


Many today think they are bringing in the Kingdom FOR Jesus. The same mistake made during the Crusades...and look at all the blood shed.

Added Edited for content:
Here is what is happening now, because many not knowing and dividing the Word of Truth correctly. Too many people rely on others to tell them what the Bible says...big mistake!:

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/warrenexplanation.html

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/rick_warren_new_age.html


Dominion Theology is anti-christ, all based on Kingdom NOW Theology.

With that in mind. YES please discern your Kingdoms, with the Word of God.

So I will have to whole-heartedly disagree with your comment.


Love in Christ
Katy-Did

PS Added for Content

Many people recite the Lord's Prayer

Our Father etc.

However, we are not to pray recited prayers in the first place...pagan.

But notice it says,

On earth as it is in Heaven.

Kingdom of Heaven is refering to the 1000 year Reign, and that is a Kingdom Age Prayer, for the 1000 year Reign.

Strangely, those who have not rightly divided the Word of God think we can pray in Peace for the world. But look....there won't be any peace until Jesus Reigns and Rules in the Kingdom Reign. The CHURCH HIS BODY, you know the one Paul has told us about will reign and Rule with Christ during this time. But before that happens, the world will be in great turmoil.


This IS where many will be deceived when anti-christ takes the throne, 2 Thess 2, and he will actually bring peace for 3 1/2 years...When this happens everyone will believe him to be the Lord.

The way the Body of Christ KNOWS he is not God is because we will have been raptured at that time to reign and rule with Him. This IS in scripture.

Anti-christ WILL be on the scene before we go...and not sure how long that will be for, but according to 2 Thess 2, he will be revealed to us.

Don't be deceived! Study your Bible's.



To suggest one has never suffered unless one suffers through the Great tribulation is nonsense

I could not agree more. But that is a different topic

Actually Miccah, that was the topic in this blog!

M
Miccah


Miccah,

We are told to RIGHTLT divide the word of Truth.

Divide it does not call for multiple Kingdoms.

Many today think they are bringing in the Kingdom FOR Jesus. The same mistake made during the Crusades...and look at all the blood shed.

Jesus is Lord, there is nothing any of us can or will do that can change this. God ushers in the Kingdom, not man.

Added Edited for content:
Here is what is happening now, because many not knowing and dividing the Word of Truth correctly. Too many people rely on others to tell them what the Bible says...big mistake!:

http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/warrenexplanation.html

http://www.inplainsite.org/html/rick_warren_new_age.html

Kate, by suggesting these different links, are you not just doing what you said others are doing?

Too many people rely on others to tell them what the Bible says...big mistake!:
I rely on the word of God, and not man to tell me He means and says in scipture.

Many people recite the Lord's Prayer

Our Father etc.

However, we are not to pray recited prayers in the first place...pagan.

So when Jesus said this...

9"This, then, is how you should pray:
" 'Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name,
10your kingdom come,
your will be done
on earth as it is in heaven.
11Give us today our daily bread.
12Forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
13And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one.[a]' 14For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 15But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins.

...you feel that it is pagen? I appreciate your opinion on this and no offense, but I trust the words of Jesus and what He tells all of us to do, over what you think we should do. Plus, by denying doing what The Lord tells us to do [u]in the Bible[/u], you are saying that the Bible is wrong and the word of Jesus is inaccurate. This truly concerns me. Anytime someone would have me question what Jesus told us to do is grounds sets off for multiple bells and whistles to
end the discussion.

But notice it says,

On earth as it is in Heaven.

Kingdom of Heaven is refering to the 1000 year Reign, and that is a Kingdom Age Prayer, for the 1000 year Reign.

Kate,

This is what you've been taught and is your theology.

One God manifest into three beings (Trinity) does not equal multiple Kingdoms. It equals one heck of an equation that will be reveiled to us on that Day. One Kingdom, God the Trinity.

Also, I hope I am misunderstanding you and you are arguing timeline about your point above. To suggest that there are multiple Kingdoms is to say that there is multiple gods. The Kingdom is! It consists of different timelines and actions happening in it, but it never is a seperate Kingdom from God. To preach anything else is sinful.

The way the Body of Christ KNOWS he is not God is because we will have been raptured at that time to reign and rule with Him. This IS in scripture.

Very much your theology and your opinion. I get all fuzzy inside too thinking that the Father will take me before the great trib, but what your again talking about is scripture interpretations, which are everywhere and all different. If you put your hope and faith in the pre/mid-trib, that is your business. I put mine in the Lord

But still, the question is not when it happens, but are you ready for things to happen? Even if it is different then you expect. For someone to think, including myself, that they have absolute key-in on the mind of God and His plans needs to rethink some things.

Also, if you are wrong about the pre-mid trib rapture, could this be the "great falling away" that is talked about? What would pre and mid rapture folk think about God if they were here in those days? I have a feeling that they would either not believe that we are in those days, or they would "fall away" from God because they believed the theology that God was saving them from pain and hardship. I do not ask you to change your mind, but pray. Pray and ask God to reveal Himself.

Anti-christ WILL be on the scene before we go...and not sure how long that will be for, but according to 2 Thess 2, he will be revealed to us.

Not a very fun thought, but this is one area I do agree with you on completly

Don't be deceived! Study your Bible's.

*sigh*
Thanks for thinking I have no idea what I'm talking about and I don't know the Bible. Very denominational of you.

To suggest one has never suffered unless one suffers through the Great tribulation is nonsense

I could not agree more. But that is a different topic

Actually Miccah, that was the topic in this blog!

It was?

I will not call out a denomonation, because that only creates division. But as much as you can, please keep your denomonation out of converations. Jesus did not have a denomonation/religion, and to suggest that He did creates a spirit of religion amoungst us.

Be very careful if you keep it in. Jesus was against what the Pharisees represented, religion. Don't get stuck in this rut.

Great discussion. Many blessings

Miccah

S
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Whew. I just got done reading all of this. You all can sure post some long postings :-)

I am post-trib. But let me ask...what does it matter? We all need to live ready for Him to come. I feel that if Father chooses to take me before the great trib, Great! If not, Great!

The question is...Are you ready if you are right? Are you ready if your wrong? Break off the spirit of religion and move to the spirit of God.

Many blessings

Hello Miccah - I see you have the gift of correction. :-)

You have popped on here and basically addressed us both or all on this thread -- may I ask where you have [i]discerned[/i] the "spirit of religion" and also -- how is that -- "When" He is returning to gather His Elect - doesn't matter - as you've said - "what does it matter?" - if we have to go through the tribulation and deal with the beast and the mark or not?

It seemed to "matter" quite a bit to GOD in His Word. Indeed.

Most curious as to how you discern a "spirit of religion" in whomever - on this thread.
This ought to be interesting.

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Be very careful if you keep it in. Jesus was against what the Pharisees represented, religion. Don't get stuck in this rut.

Miccah, Those Links ARE ABOUT RELIGION!!!

I do hope you know the difference. I also hope you've read them. An interesting comment on the first one.......kinda reminds me of what you too are saying here !!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did


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To Judge or To Judge Not?


He Reigns, I hope you don't mind my re-posting Kato Mivule Article here.

Here is another Great Article that is a must read:

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/04/smith-deceived_on_purpose.htm

Seems as though there is a need for refreshing in the GIFT OF TRUTH! ;-)

To Judge or To Judge Not?
By Kato Mivule
Uganda, Africa
www.YesuMulungi.com

To Judge or Judge not, which is which? Are we Supposed To Criticize?

I have had many aggravated here in Uganda, Africa over the issue of Discernment were by some accusations have been flying left and right from "Pious African Christians" that we are "Judging", "Critical", and we are "To Judge Not"...

In Africa we have a cultural barrier when it comes to Bible Discernment and Righteous Judgment...Leaders especially African Village Chiefs are highly esteemed in African Cultures that it is a very bad omen to speak out against them or question them. African Leaders also take advantage of such weakness in the African Cultures by claiming that all who stand to oppose them will receive "Curses"...

This trend can be seen across Africa's Political Platform were Presidents assume a Deity Role and assume life Presidency often ending up in a dictatorship. Such thinking that I call the 'African Village Chief Mentality' has sadly taken the African Church by storm...

It is a shame that so-called Christian leaders have taken on this 'African Village Chief Mentality' and threaten all who question their activities and false doctrines with "Curses", Excommunication, and persecutions including death threats. These so-called Church leaders in Africa threaten their constituents by telling them that they should never "Touch the Anointed of God" and never speak against the "Man of God", those who do so are told they will receive "Curses"...

This has been one reason why Discernment and Righteous Judgment is not exercised in most African Churches as the believers walk and live in pure fear. As such the "Man of God" is free to teach whatever False Doctrine they desire... The African Church Leaders reign over their churches with an iron fist and nothing short of the Nicolaitanes Doctrine...

However, is this what the Bible teaches? Is this what Jesus Christ and the Apostles taught? So, we take a look at the scriptures below and see what the Whole Counsel of God's Word says...

Many have also made a tragic mistake of thinking that Pharisees don't exist in our so-called churches today, and that if they do exist they remain in the confines of Denominations like the Roman Catholic Church, Anglican Church and other Religions...this is nothing short of joining those who say Satan does not exist, that if he does he must be confined with those who practice witchcraft...

Such folks with this line of thinking forget that the most established 'Pharisees' of our day belong in the Prosperity Purpose Driven Political Dominionism Evangelistic Movement and can clearly be seen with their flashy and pompous so-called ministries across TBN and other "Christian" TV outlets around the world....

So, to simply "judge" and say that 'Pharisees' don't exist today is not to exercise discernment and not judging properly and righteously as we shall see below...

What was Paul doing when he warned the Galatians, Corinthians against FALSE TEACHERS? What was Peter and Jude doing in warning the believers in their epistles against false prophets and false teachers? What Was Jesus doing in Matthew 23?

What was Jesus Christ doing when He warned his disciples about False Prophets, the Yeast of the Pharisees, and the Yeast of Herod? Was Jesus Christ simply rebuking Pharisees of His day and that was it? Does the Bible Self Contradict? Does Jesus Christ speak one thing then another next time and self contradict? Are we trying to accuse Jesus Christ, Peter, Paul, James, Jude of Flip-flopping?

Do you suppose that So-called Born again Christians today have not Rejected Jesus Christ? Really, really, really??? Well, not until the Bible Scriptures prove otherwise…

Greek Words for Judge is…
Okay, well, lets take a look at the original Greek word ‘Judge’ and then we can verify what the Bible is speaking about. The Bible offers no Contradictions. The misunderstanding of the word ‘Judge’ and pious phrase most Christians use, “Judge Not” , comes from not reading the Whole Counsel of God’s Word and lack of study of God’s Word.

Many Christians simply accuse those who ‘Judge Righteously’ as simply being “Critical”, “Filled with bitterness”, “Filled with hate”, “they hate my Pastor yet he is a Man of God…” and all the lazy excuses we give in entertaining false doctrines and the lies of Men…so let the Greek Words help us…

Judge: Strong's Number: 350 Anakrino
examine or judge
to investigate, examine, enquire into, scrutinize, sift, question
specifically in a forensic sense of a judge to hold an investigation
to interrogate, examine the accused or witnesses
to judge of, estimate, determine (the excellence or defects of any person or thing

Judge: Strong's Number: 1252 Diakrino
to separate, make a distinction, discriminate, to prefer
to learn by discrimination, to try, decide
to determine, give judgment, decide a dispute
to withdraw from one, desert
to separate one's self in a hostile spirit, to oppose, strive with dispute, contend
to be at variance with one's self, hesitate, doubt

Judge: Strong's Number: 1348 Dikastes
judge, arbitrator, umpire

Judge: Strong's Number: 2919 Krino
to separate, put asunder, to pick out, select, choose
to approve, esteem, to prefer
to be of opinion, deem, think, to be of opinion
to determine, resolve, decree
to judge
to pronounce an opinion concerning right and wrong
to be judged, i.e. summoned to trial that one's case may be examined and judgment passed upon it
to pronounce judgment, to subject to censure
of those who act the part of judges or arbiters in matters of common life, or pass judgment on the deeds and words of others
to rule, govern
to preside over with the power of giving judicial decisions, because it was the prerogative of kings and rulers to pass judgment
to contend together, of warriors and combatants
to dispute
in a forensic sense
to go to law, have suit at law

Judge: Strong's Number: 2922 Kriterion
the instrument or means of trying or judging anything
the rule by which one judges
the place where judgment is given
the tribunal of a judge
a bench of judges
the matter judged, thing to be decided, suit, case

Judge: Strong's Number: 2923 Krites
one who passes or arrogates to himself, judgment on anything
an arbiter
of a Roman procurator administering justice
of God passing judgment on men
of the leaders or rulers of the Israelites

Judge: Strong's Number: 2924 Kritikos

1. relating to judging, fit for judging, skilled in judging


"Judge Not?" Does the Bible Self-Contradict?
So, did Jesus not say first remove the beam (log) in your eye and then remove the mote (speck) from your neighbours? Was he refusing judging?

Did He not state that He himself judges righteously?

Is there no Righteous Judgment?

Does not the spiritual man judge all things and is judged by no one?

So, what is the context of judge not?

It is simple, if you practice evil or still struggle with evil and a certain sin in your life, then you can judge no one while practicing the same thing...

First get delivered from that sin then go and deliver others after you are free...

>>The Bible forbids to Judge Unrighteous based on outside appearance, foods, days, festivals etc as the scriptures below show…

Romans 14: (Krino = To Condemn, Damn) …unrighteous judgment based on foods, days, drinks, etc…
1 Corinthians 10:23-33 (Krino = To Condemn, Damn)…unrighteous judgment based on foods…
Colossians 2:16-17 (Krino = To Condemn, Damn)…unrighteous judgments based on foods, drinks, holidays etc…
1 Corinthians 4:1-5 (Krino = To Condemn, Damn in Verse 5... Anakrino in previous = To Examine)…forbidden to premature judgment based on outward appearance in context of Paul going to the Corinthians in Chapter 1 and 2…In Uganda for instance, the “anointed” preacher is judged to be “anointed’ if they drive a New SUV, Fly First Class, live in a Mansion, have a 8000 Church etc, yet many True Anointed preachers who have nothing are prematurely judged by men in the flesh…
>>Again in this scripture we are forbidden to judge by outside appearance or by The Standards of this world, this includes status, riches, class, race, ethnic back ground, educational background etc…this is very common in many Prosperity Purpose Driven Churches and among Preachers who preach Riches, wealth and materialism…

James 2:1-13 (Krites = A Judge; Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, Judge Rightly, To Condemn, Damn = Unrighteous Judgment )
1 My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.

2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;

3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

4 Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts?
5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?

6 But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?

7 Do not they blaspheme that worthy name by the which ye are called?
8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.

10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.

12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.

>>But WE MUST JUDGE AND JUDGE RIGHTEOUSLY BASED ON GOD’S HOLY WORD….
>>Judge After You Have Removed the Log out of your Eye first…
>>Then you can help others...first get delivered to deliver others…
>>First get deliverance from evil doctrines and then help others who are bound…

Matthew 7:1-5 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, Judge Rightly, To Condemn, Damn = Unrighteous Judgment)
1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

>>Jesus says that Judge with RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT…

John 7:24 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, To Condemn, Damn = Unrighteous Judgment)
24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Luke 7:43 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Determined Rightly; Called into Question Rightly = Righteous Judging)
43 Simon answered and said, I suppose that he, to whom he forgave most. And he said unto him, Thou hast rightly judged.

2 Corinthians 10:7 (Prosopon = Surface; Outside appearance)
7 Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? if any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.

>>Why Don’t you yourselves Judge what is Right?

Luke 12:56-57 (Dokimazo = Examine; Determine; Test; ...Krino = Question Rightly)
56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time?
57 Yea, and why even of yourselves judge ye not what is right?

>>Prove, Judge, Discern ALL Things…Hold to The Good

1 Thessalonians 5:21-22 (Dokimazo = Examine; Determine; Test; Prove; Try)
21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.
22 Abstain from all appearance of evil.

>>The Spiritual Man Judges ALL things…

1 Corinthians 2:11-16 (Anakrino = Question; Investigate; Interrogate; Scrutinize; Discern; Judge Rightly)
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

>> Paul says…”Judge ye what I say”…

1 Corinthians 10:15 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Esteem, Determine, Conclude, Judge Rightly)
15 I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say.

>>Be AWARE of FALSE PROPHETS…
>>How can you be AWARE of false prophets is you don’t judge righteously?????
>>You SHALL KNOW THEM BY THEIR FRUITS…
>>How can you know them by their Fruits if Don’t Judge????

Matthew 7:15-20 (Prosecho = Be Aware, Pay Attention, Be Cautious, Take Heed)
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

>>What is our Standard of Righteous Judgment???
>>Is it not the Word of God?
>>We Judge basing on God’s Holy and True Word…
>>If they live and teach contrary to scripture there is no light in them!

Isaiah 8:20
20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

>>Avoid those who teach contrary to Sound Doctrine…
>>How can you AVOID them if you Judge not righteously???
>>…They serve their own belly = Prosperity Movement???
>>They give fair speeches (feel good messages) to deceive the simple…

Romans 16:17-18 (Skopeo = Mark Them, Take Heed, Consider)
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them. For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple…

>>ALL scriptures below require Righteous Judgment Based on God’s Word…
>>Unless you “Judge not”, then you cannot accept these scriptures…

2 Corinthians 6: 14-18 (Aphorizo = Separate, Sever, Exclude, Divide)
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

2 Timothy 3:5 (Apotrepo = Turn Away, Deflect, Avoid)
5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 (Stello = Avoid, Withdraw Yourself, Abstain from Associating with)
6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

Ephesians 5:11 (Elegcho = Reprove, Confute, Admonish, Tell A Fault, Rebuke)
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

Romans 12:9 (Apostugeo = Abhor, To Utterly Detest)
9 Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.

>>We are COMMANDED to TEST every spirit…
>>How are you going to Test, if you “Judge not”?
>>…For many False Prophets are gone out in the world…

>>So, Brothers and Sisters, Try, Test, Discern, Judge, all Spirits…
>>False teachers and preachers will detest the Life of Christ Jesus in them…
>>They hate to live after the example of Jesus Christ…to carry our Cross and follow Him…

>>They hate to live for Christ Jesus and Jesus Christ living in them…

>>…Which means death to the fleshly desires, things of this world, the prosperity comfy gospel, the get rich quick gospel…it means a life of persecution, being hated by the world, giving to the poor, storing up riches in Heaven and not earthly possessions…it means adhering to The Words of Jesus Christ…false teachers, ministries, apostles, prophets hate this because Christ Lives Not in Them…

>>They speak always of The World, the riches, money, fame, popularity, how to build mega million dollar buildings, glamorous cars, Elite Traveling, Mansions and the best indulgence they can get from the world; therefore the world loves them and cherishes them because Truly they belong to the world…for them godliness is a means of gain…and the world listens to them because they are of the world…

1 John 4:1-6 (Dokimazo = Try, Examine, Discern, Prove, Test)
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them.
6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

>>Friendship with this world is enmity with God…
>>If you are in love with this world, you are an enemy of God…
>>Many Churches today are adulteresses…in love with this world and hating Jesus Christ their Bridegroom, Head, Husband and King…

James 4:4
4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God

>>Therefore James 4:11 speaks about the unrighteous judgment of judging by outside appearance that James speaks about in James 2, otherwise Jesus, Paul and James are self contradicting which is not the case…

>>EXAMINE yourself to see if you are still in the faith…
>>How can you do this if you don’t self-judge???
>>Judge yourself based on God’s word so as not to be judged with the world…

2 Corinthians 13:5 (Peirazo = Examine, Scrutinize, Prove, Try; Dokimazo = Prove, Discern, Approve, Examine, Test , Try)
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

1 Corinthians 11:31-32 (Diakrino = Judge Ourselves, Separate Thoroughly, Discern, Judge; Krino = Condemn, Damm, Decree, Determine, Call in Question)
31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

>>Judge those within the Church with Righteous Judgment Based on God’s Word…

1 Corinthians 5:11-12 (Krino = Properly Distinguish, Call to Question, Determine, Judge, Try, Conclude, Decree, Think, Decide)
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

>>Judge Prophets and their Prophesy…Deuteronomy 18:20-22, Jeremiah 14 and Jeremiah 28 speak about the same thing and not being afraid of Prophets who prophesy of their own accord…but JUDGE ALL PROPHETS AND PROPHESY based on God’s Word…

1 Corinthians 14:29 (Diakrino = Separate Thoroughly, Discern, Judge, Contend, Discriminate)
29 Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.

>>We are forbidden to Judge the Brethren using world standards and taking them to courts of Law…this thing is very common among Prosperity Movement as they fight over Control of Material Wealth…

>>We are settle disputes among brethren we ourselves and Judge our selves…
>>So, how do we carry out such Judgment in 1 Corinthians 6 and “Judge not”?

1 Corinthians 6 (Krino = Judge, Properly Distinguish, Call in Question, Condemn, Sentence To, Conclude; Kriterion = A Rule of Judging, Tribunal, Judgment, To Judge)
1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.

>>We are supposed to grow up spiritually and be able to discern, judge, prove, test, try ALL things based on God’s Word and discern between good and evil…

Hebrews 5:11-14 (Diakrisis = Discern, Judicial Estimation, Disputation)
11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

>>We must grow and abound in more knowledge and ALL judgment…
>>This is to grow in the knowledge of Christ = His Holy Word and All Judgment…
>>So, we can then Judge Righteously based on God’s Holy Word…

Philippians 1:9-10 (Aiathesis = Discernment, Judgment)
9 And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and in all judgment;
10 That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till the day of Christ.

Conclusion...
If I am freed by God's Holy Word from Prosperity Doctrines, Mega-Church Building Teachings, the False Doctrine of Tithes from Hell, Nicolaitanes Doctrines of one Man Pastor Ministries, Balaam Doctrine of Greed, and Materialism, Political Christianity, Rapture before Tribulation (Pre-Trib) False Doctrine, Church Growth Movement, Purpose Driven False Doctrine, and many many more, so I can speak out against such Heresies just as Paul the Apostle did clearly with His mandate and approval from God...

Christians Today need to be more Discerning and to Judge with Righteous Judgment Based on God's Holy Word. There are many False Prophets that have gone throughout the world. Many of them are on TBN, the likes of Joyce Meyer, Kim Clement, Rod Parsley, Paul Crouch, Ben Hinn, Joel Osteen, and almost 99% of the TBN family...being a part of this False TBN Family and associating and supporting it makes one engage in their False Doctrines and Teachings, especially the Prosperity and Political Christianity Dominionism Doctrines...

In Africa we have Copycats of the TBN Family and because people are poor, many tend to see the rich affluent Preachers on TBN as Holy and True and simply believe all their False Teachings without question...this ought not to be so...

Acts 17:10-12 (Anakrino = Searched, Scrutinize, Investigate, Interrogate, Determine, Question, Ask, Discern, Examine, Judge)
10 And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews.
11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
12 Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.

True Christians act like the Berean Christians and Search the Scriptures Daily to see if those things preachers today say are so...yes, they will question everything, judge All things, Discern and Prove if all what preachers say is true...Apostate Christians are forbidden by their Pastor Preachers from doing so by telling them out of simplicity that, "Judge Not" while they feed them with False Doctrines from Satan and Hell...

Yes, I pray that we continue to grow in the Knowledge of Christ Jesus, His Holy Word so we can Rightly discern between Good and Evil...the days are evil and the Great Apostasy is happening before our own eyes...

Yes, as True Christians and Holy Saints of God, we are called to Judge ALL Things and to Judge Righteously, The Word of God being our Basis...Amen.


Thank you Kato.

Seems as though more here are in agreement then not!!

Love in Christ
Katy-did


S
sermonindex

Miccah,

2 Corinthians 10:3-5
3For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
7Do ye look on things after the outward appearance? if any man trust to himself that he is Christ's, let him of himself think this again, that, as he is Christ's, even so are we Christ's.


Just as Israel when going to possess the land, were to drive out all those “ITES”, by Faith, The Lord going before them.

As we approach these last days, we too must drive out the “ITES” re: the Hinnites, Warrenites, Popites, Mormonites, Parasites, Termites, Moonites, etc, etc, out of any thoughts in our minds, and bring our Whole Heart, Mind, Body and Soul into the OBEDIENCE of the WORD of God, and through that obedience, the Lord WILL, bring these strongholds down and reveal Truth like you’ve never seen.

Yes, there does seem to be giants in the land, but do not be afraid...don't look to the right or look to the left, but Keep your eyes on Jesus Christ ALONE!!!


It’s called OBEDIENCE of FAITH.

THEN we are exhorted to:

Ephesians 6:
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the WORD OF GOD:

Love in Christ
Katy-Did


M
Miccah

Hello Miccah - I see you have the gift of correction. :-)

lol. No. I have the gift of difference on opinion is all. It sometimes feels that if you post here, and are not a Baptist, you get blasted. Again though, just my opinion.

You have popped on here and basically addressed us both or all on this thread -- may I ask where you have [i]discerned[/i] the "spirit of religion"

Great question.

Before I post anything, I pray about it. I ask to speak in truth and honsety for His gain and not my own. I ask that He reveals His truth to me/us and that I speak this truth. I ask for barriers to be broken down between brethren.

The discernment comes from prayer, fasting and experience. It may be hard to see the spirit of religion (I know because I have been under that same spirit a time ago), but it is present in these forums/people. People are hesitant to look past their differences in theologies and follow the one true purpose there is, which is Kingdom. As you have seen even in this posting, people would rather argue about what they believe to be the interpretations of scripture, then focus on the One. When people begin to judge others because they are not in agreement, ie. KJV vs. NKJV, Baptist vs. Non-Denomonational, Kingdom vs. kingdoms, etc... a spirit of pride/religion takes hold. This is why I try not to debate pre, mid or post trib events, or denomonational stances. People get so focused on trying to explain why everyone should believe what "they" think about how God handed His word to us and why everyone else should submit to this thinking, that they loose the true focus of The Word.

Do you think that God agrees with your position only? Do you think that God only believes what you believe? Do you think that God is a Baptist, Catholic, Luthern, etc...? Do you really think that when Jesus comes back that only "insert denomonation" will be saved?

God is above religion, and so we must also be. He is for His Church, so we must be also. To do anything else is religious. When we start to get religous on others and think that our position is the only position, we open ourselves up to hypocrisy and false teachings based on the "knowledge of man" and not the knowledge of God.

and also -- how is that -- "When" He is returning to gather His Elect - doesn't matter - as you've said - "what does it matter?" - if we have to go through the tribulation and deal with the beast and the mark or not?

I would never try to come off and say that the Word of the Lord doesn't matter. It does and It shall. The point I was making is to have people overlook their personal religious beliefs and look at the broad picture. That picture is that we need to be ready for what ever God has in store for us, regardless if it is pre, mid or post. If someone is so dead set that it is pre or mid, [u]and then it is really post[/u], they may feel mislead and fall away from God. This is all I am saying. Just because everyone "feels" one way or was "taught" one way about the rapture [u]doesn't mean that it is correct[/u]. Thus said, instead of getting into "debatable subjects" as talked about in the Bible, focus on being ready to do what ever God has in store for His people.

It seemed to "matter" quite a bit to GOD in His Word. Indeed.

Yes, end times does matter to God, and to His people. So does spreading false teachings based on personal beliefs. I for one do not care when He takes me, as long as He does. To plan on something else is planning to be let down. All we know is that He will take us at some time. Eveything else is "debatable".

Most curious as to how you discern a "spirit of religion" in whomever - on this thread.
This ought to be interesting.

Reference above. Hopefully this answered your question/s.

May the Lord give you grace upon grace upon grace.

Miccah

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Hello again Miccah.

Here are my feeble attempts at trying to come to some sort of understanding.

lol. No. I have the gift of difference on opinion is all. It sometimes feels that if you post here, and are not a Baptist, you get blasted. Again though, just my opinion.

So that would mean, your "doctrine" is different than a lot of the folks here, as you see it.

Before I post anything, I pray about it. I ask to speak in truth and honsety for His gain and not my own. I ask that He reveals His truth to me/us and that I speak this truth. I ask for barriers to be broken down between brethren.

The discernment comes from prayer, fasting and experience.

So, because you've prayed and fasted and because of "discernment" - you "speak in truth and honesty" the "truth that He reveals" to you, because you've done all of these things and believe most of us here are Baptists who jump on non-Baptists.

It may be hard to see the spirit of religion (I know because I have been under that same spirit a time ago), but it is present in these forums/people.

Interesting.

When people begin to judge others because they are not in agreement, ie. KJV vs. NKJV, Baptist vs. Non-Denomonational, Kingdom vs. kingdoms, etc... a spirit of pride/religion takes hold.

Oh, I see. So that would mean, that what you have is the humility that the rest of us need.
May I ask, who brought up the word "Denominations" and judging kingdoms vs Kingdom first ?

This is why I try not to debate pre, mid or post trib events, or denomonational stances. People get so focused on trying to explain why everyone should believe what "they" think about how God handed His word to us and why everyone else should submit to this thinking, that they loose the true focus of The Word.

So on page 6 - where you signed onto this thread - you weren't trying to "debate", nor were you "trying to explain why everyone should believe what [you] think about how God handed His Word to us and why everyone else [here] should submit to [your] thinking" ?
O.K..

I suppose I will have to go back and read all your posts again.

When we start to get religous on others and think that our position is the only position, we open ourselves up to hypocrisy and false teachings based on the "knowledge of man" and not the knowledge of God.

O.K.. Will keep that part about "false teachings" in mind.

Thus said, instead of getting into "debatable subjects" as talked about in the Bible, focus on being ready to do what ever God has in store for His people.

Do you believe in the word "doctrine" ? It's listed 44 times in the N.T..

Yes, end times does matter to God, and to His people. So does spreading false teachings based on personal beliefs.

Yes, I see that you began to explain your end-time beliefs in the last post on page 6.

Now I have another question - how do we Stop the "spreading false teachings based on personal beliefs" unless we expose them Scripturally ?

But you said, we shouldn't do this [debate], above - yet, you've debated since signing on here.

You see - I see you saying two things at once since you've signed on to this thread and I'm just trying to get some consistency here.

As Katy well posted earlier -- I believe it was just before you signed onto this thread on page 6 -- "Jesus is The Word of God" - and that is what we were marveling at before your First post.

Personally, I prefer posts about "beliefs", to be filled with 'The Word of God' and not just directives. How about you?

You cannot throw away doctrine and reproving false doctrine and say, you have discernment about "the people here".
You cannot say, God tells you what to post and say you don't like debates by starting debates.

Can you at least consider where I've quoted you above and see these answers don't square with each other and only add to confusion -- adding in also, your earlier posts?

And that -- that may very well be why Katy has re-posted the Message on "Judging"?

I am not in or of any "denomination" btw, if that helps you to relax at all.

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Do you think that God agrees with your position only? Do you think that God only believes what you believe? Do you think that God is a Baptist, Catholic, Luthern, etc...? Do you really think that when Jesus comes back that only "insert denomonation" will be saved?

Miccah, you are absolutely correct in stating God is not denominational. Actually that is considered "Carnal" or worldly minded according to Paul in 1 Corinthians 3.

This is why in these days it's SOOOOOOO important to put on the mind of Christ, that comes only through reading the Bible...the Word of God, and not let men regardless of what denomination try to hold dominion over your mind.

Actually Rick Warren is BAPTIST. The POPE is Catholic etc.

I believe I posted here earlier we should never run after men who have become so popular with the world, and world views. James says friendship with the world is at emnity with God. Meaning the ENEMY of God.

To be perfectly honest, the Obedient Saint will not be popular AT ALL.

To Judge, or what I got from Kato's comment, is we Judge what is being taught...just as the Bereans, after hearing Paul, an Apostle, went back and searched the scriptures to JUDGE what Paul was teaching was indeed the truth. They didn't say...Gee, that's Paul, we don't need to question.

We should all be good Bereans and Judge EVERYTHING that is being said today...it could be a matter of life or death...and that, I believe, is the most important reason we do judge, and warn.

As Jude says..."snatching some out of the fire, hating even their garments to be spotted by the WORLD". Obviously they KNEW how serious we should take God's warnings. We just re-iterate them...as Peter also said...."it's not burdensome for me to keep reminding you"... It's not a burden at all. It's out of LOVE, not debate.

With Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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So that would mean, your "doctrine" is different than a lot of the folks here, as you see it.

I don't have a doctrine besides what is talked about in the Bible and the Word of God. But if you wish to call it that, so be it.

So, because you've prayed and fasted and because of "discernment" - you "speak in truth and honesty" the "truth that He reveals" to you, because you've done all of these things and believe most of us here are Baptists who jump on non-Baptists.

The beautiful thing about the Lord is that He will speak to all of us. I always move to speak in truth and honsety. If this upsets you, I am sorry for that, but how will I be able to stand before the Lord and explain that I was silent when something needed to be said.

As for the comment about being or not being a Baptist, it was only my opinion. God said nothing to me one way or the other about that :)

Oh, I see. So that would mean, that what you have is the humility that the rest of us need.

No, I need Christ's humility. I strive for that daily. But your reply to me here has no tone of humilty or patience.

Again, I am sorry to offened, but the Word IS offensive to many. Sometimes it is even offensive to us believers. Some times it offends me, but that offensivness allows me to reexamine myself and my relationship with Christ and make changes where changes need to be made. I never said agree with me, only that I do not need to agree with you. Test everything, everything I say, and even everything that you say to others. I How else will we learn unless we do this?

May I ask, who brought up the word "Denominations" and judging kingdoms vs Kingdom first ?

When talking on the subject of "the spirit of religion", what does it matter who brought what up first? If denomonations and multiple kingdoms are implied, should I keep it quite?

So on page 6 - where you signed onto this thread - you weren't trying to "debate", nor were you "trying to explain why everyone should believe what [you] think about how God handed His Word to us and why everyone else [here] should submit to [your] thinking" ?
O.K..

I suppose I will have to go back and read all your posts again.

I guess it will be hard to truly know what my "doctrine" is, since I am new to these forums. But to quickly break it down for you...

I believe in the Word of God. I stand for the truth and honesty. I fight for the Son, as He fights for me. I have a heart of no compromise when it comes to the Truth.

Do you believe in the word "doctrine" ? It's listed 44 times in the N.T..

Yes, I see that you began to explain your end-time beliefs in the last post on page 6.


Now I have another question - how do we Stop the "spreading false teachings based on personal beliefs" unless we expose them Scripturally ?

But you said, we shouldn't do this [debate], above - yet, you've debated since signing on here.

What does this accomplish? Think about all the good you and I could be doing for the Kingdom if we focused this energy on prayer. Wow.

You see - I see you saying two things at once since you've signed on to this thread and I'm just trying to get some consistency here.

If I have confused you or have been confusing, I am sorry. It is not my intention. I am imperfect and doing the best I can to stay true to what the Lord wants me to do.

As Katy well posted earlier -- I believe it was just before you signed onto this thread on page 6 -- "Jesus is The Word of God" - and that is what we were marveling at before your First post.

Personally, I prefer posts about "beliefs", to be filled with 'The Word of God' and not just directives. How about you?

Would it just be easier if I was quite and agreed with what everyone else is saying? Would it make everyone feel more comfortable?

I cannot.

You cannot throw away doctrine and reproving false doctrine and say, you have discernment about "the people here".
You cannot say, God tells you what to post and say you don't like debates by starting debates.

I said that God tells me what to post? I think I said that I pray, fast and use experience. Plus I ask for His revelation so that I may speak truth.

Can you at least consider where I've quoted you above and see these answers don't square with each other and only add to confusion -- adding in also, your earlier posts?

I will pray about what you have said since it is from a fellow brother. I will never turn my back on a brother or sister if they ak me of something. I may not give them the answer they want, but I will not turn away, unless it is a sin.

I ask you to please do the same in return. Pray for what I have said and test it.

How can we become united unless the Lord unites us? Praying together is a great start.

I am not in or of any "denomination" btw, if that helps you to relax at all.

I sense that you would take this as a personal attack on yourself, your/others denomonation and your friend, it is not. What I say I say out of love, regardless if it is painful. I try to remove flesh from my words and insert the Spirit. I do fail. Christ doesn't.

Many blesssings to you and yours.

Miccah.

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Miccah, I was thinking through supper - What would it matter if everyone on this forum was Baptist?
You've said you've discerned things about those on this forum - but then you say to give you a chance because you are new. I know what it is to be new too - but if you have differences with the things you've read on this thread - bring Scripture to the table and we can discuss things.
Miccah, I don't get offended by words on my monitor and least of all from someone I don't know.
Maybe if you'd just re-read your posts from page 6 - you may see what I was trying to ask you.
I love sharing God's Word back and forth with the brethren. You haven't given any Scripture yet, but just came on correcting; I don't know what.
Maybe Katy can understand what your differences are with the people here, as you've said - because I don't think I really want to know. If everyone here is Baptist, I could care less - so I think I'll just leave it at that - too nebulous for me.

M
Miccah


HE_Reigns wrote:
Miccah, I was thinking through supper - What would it matter if everyone on this forum was Baptist?
You've said you've discerned things about those on this forum - but then you say to give you a chance because you are new. I know what it is to be new too - but if you have differences with the things you've read on this thread - bring Scripture to the table and we can discuss things.
Miccah, I don't get offended by words on my monitor and least of all from someone I don't know.
Maybe if you'd just re-read your posts from page 6 - you may see what I was trying to ask you.
I love sharing God's Word back and forth with the brethren. You haven't given any Scripture yet, but just came on correcting; I don't know what.
Maybe Katy can understand what your differences are with the people here, as you've said - because I don't think I really want to know. If everyone here is Baptist, I could care less - so I think I'll just leave it at that - too nebulous for me.

Thanks for the reply. My last post stands as is, and has answered your questions above. Other then that, thank you for your general statements.

If you wish to discuss, feel free. If not, God blessand move on to the next topic.

Again, many blessings.

Miccah

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[b][u]Exceprts[/u] from Mysticism & Christianity by Benjamin B. Warfield (1851-1921)
This essay originally appeared in The Biblical Review (vol. 2 ,1917, pp. 169-191)[/b]

"It is characteristic of mysticism that it makes its appeal to the feelings as the sole, or at least as the normative, source of knowledge of divine things. That is to say, it is the religious sentiment which constitutes for it the source of religious knowledge. Of course mystics differ with one another in the consistency with which they apply their principle. And of course they differ with one another in the account they give of this religious sentiment to which they make their appeal. There are, therefore, many varieties of mystics, pure and impure, consistent and inconsistent, naturalistic and supernaturalistic, pantheistic and theistic — even Christian. What is common to them all, and what makes them all mystics, is that they all rest on the religious sentiment as the source of knowledge of divine things.


If ... the mystic chances to be a theist, he may look upon the movements of his religious feelings as effects in his soul wrought by the voluntary actions of the God whom he acknowledges; and if he should happen to be a Christian, he may interpret these movements, in accordance with the teachings of the Scriptures, as the leadings of the Holy Spirit or as the manifestations within him of the Christ within us the hope of glory.

This Christian mysticism, now, obviously differs in no essential respect from the parallel phenomena which are observable in other religions. It is only general mysticism manifesting itself on Christian ground and interpreting itself accordingly in the forms of Christian thought. It is mysticism which has learned to speak in Christian language. The phenomena themselves are universal. There has never been an age of the world, or a form of religion, in which they have not been in evidence. There are always everywhere some men who stand out among their fellows as listeners to the inner voice, and who, refusing the warning which Thoas gives to Iphigenia in Goethe's play, "There speaks no God: thy heart alone 'tis speaks," respond like Iphigenia with passionate conviction, "'Tis only through our hearts the gods e'er speak." But these common phenomena are, naturally, interpreted in each instance, according to the general presuppositions of each several subject or observer of them. Thus, for example, they are treated as the intrusion of God into the soul (Ribet), or as the involuntary intrusion of the unconscious into consciousness (Hartmann), or as the intrusion of the subconscious into the consciousness (Du Prel), or as the intrusion of feeling, strong and overmastering, into the operations of the intellect (Goethe).


Clearly it is the type which has been called supernaturalistic that has the closest affinity with Christianity. Christian mysticism accordingly, at its best, takes this form and passes insensibly from it into evangelical Christianity, to which the indwelling of the Holy Ghost — the Christ within — is fundamental, and which rejoices in such spiritual experiences as are summed up in the old categories of regeneration and sanctification — the rebegetting of the soul into newness of life and the leading of the new-created soul along the pathway of holy living. From these experiences, of course, much may be inferred not only of the modes of God's working in the salvation of men but also of the nature and character of God the worker.

The distinction between mysticism of this type and evangelical Christianity, from the point of view which is now occupying our attention, is nevertheless clear. Evangelical Christianity interprets all religious experience by the normative revelation of God recorded for us in the Holy Scriptures, and guides, directs, and corrects it from these Scriptures, and thus molds it into harmony with what God in His revealed Word lays down as the normal Christian life. The mystic, on the other hand, tends to substitute his religious experience for the objective revelation of God recorded in the written Word, as the source from which he derives his knowledge of God, or at least to subordinate the expressly revealed Word as the less direct and convincing source of knowledge of God to his own religious experience. The result is that the external revelation is relatively depressed in value, if not totally set aside.

In the history of Christian thought mysticism appears accordingly as that tendency among professing Christians which looks within, that is, to the religious feelings, in its search for God. It supposes itself to contemplate within the soul the movements of the divine Spirit, and finds in them either the sole sources of trustworthy knowledge of God, or the most immediate and convincing sources of that knowledge, or, at least, a coordinate source of it alongside of the written Word. The characteristic of Christian mysticism, from the point of view of religious knowledge, is therefore its appeal to the "inner light," or "the internal word," either to the exclusion of the external or written Word, or as superior to it and normative for its interpretation, or at least as coordinate authority with it, this "inner light" or "internal word" being conceived not as the rational understanding but as the immediate deliverance of the religious sentiment. As a mere matter of fact, now, we lack all criteria, apart from the written Word, to distinguish between those motions of the heart which are created within us by the Spirit of God and those which arise out of the natural functioning of the religious consciousness."

Complete Article - http://www.contemplative.us/archives/2006/06/mysticism_christianity.php

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The characteristic of Christian mysticism, from the point of view of religious knowledge, is therefore its appeal to the "inner light," or "the internal word," either to the exclusion of the external or written Word, or as superior to it and normative for its interpretation, or at least as coordinate authority with it, this "inner light" or "internal word" being conceived not as the rational understanding but as the immediate deliverance of the religious sentiment. As a mere matter of fact, now, we lack all criteria, apart from the written Word, to distinguish between those motions of the heart which are created within us by the Spirit of God and those which arise out of the natural functioning of the religious consciousness."

Great article He Reigns:

We must know that not everything supernatural is spiritual. Satan can turn himself into an angel of light and preacher of righteousness. All sorts of manifestations are going on today NOT IN SCRIPTURE re: being slain in the spirit is one of them.

Anti-christ is coming with great signs and wonders, and we are to know the difference between truth and lie. We have God’s Word for this. Yet, how many claim to have extra-biblical knowledge, not is scripture and claim this is of God.

Revelation says concerning anti-christ and HIS KINGDOM…., “who can fight against it”. Well, we may not be able to fight against it, but we are to discern it and not go near it.

We know these *Marian* sightings are satanic…., stigmas are mystical phenomenon, but NOT IN SCRIPTURE.

2 Timothy 3:
8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.

Jannes and Jambres were those mystics and magicians during the time Moses went into Egypt to bring Israel out. These men were able to imitate everything Moses could do. Scary huh?
2 Timpthy 3 is concerning these last days, including the warnings of mystics and magicians.

Here are two web sites that would be of great edification for these days.
I’m sure there are many more out there.


http://www.crossroad.to/Excerpts/warnings.htm
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/mysticism.html


2 Timothy 3:
8Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
9But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as their's also was.
10But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
11Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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Let me make something perfectly clear here.

"This forum"

Some of you have been here a mere matter of days, some not even a month and others perhaps only a few. It is quite troubling for one thing to hear many of the statements leveled at "This forum" and that is not from the posture of defense but one of either ignorance or presumption.

One of the most grievous things that goes on here is the overlooking of so much. There are [i]years[/i] of history behind this forum and the brethren who have contributed to it.

It would behoove many to hold their tongues, hold their peace and leave the moderating to the moderators.

Having stated this, would appeal again to the disclaimers linked at the bottom of this reply. Would bring no discouragement to anyone, all are welcome and misunderstandings abound, it is the very nature of things. But, there is something that must be understood about the surroundings one finds themselves in here. The manner and behavior of those who participate need to recognize that "This Forum" is quite likely very different than the idea that one either carries into it or supposes that it's members and constituents are made up of. These things are generally laid out in the links mentioned.

More will be needed elsewhere spoken to about this and will be again of a general observation, one that must be understood as to those it applies to, others will rightly disregard it. I am speaking of a general peevish and argumentative mindset that has spiritual ramifications and attributes, it is unruly, divisive and out of place here.

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Appreciate your words and function here on this Site Brother. No small task -- that, I can only imagine.
'Nebulous' is still in mind here. I expect on mosts threads where there will be/are "disagreements" - but if one comes out with no clarity as to what they disagree 'with', it makes all feel defensive or just plain confused and fearful to post at all. Am experiencing that myself, because of vagueness. Communicating effectively what is our hearts can be straining.
Let your yea be yea and nay be nay - I suppose. Or as one brother stated - send a PM or email and specify.
We all need help -- all desiring to be transformed into 'His' image [no small task for the Holy Spirit] and this may be a means of help for us all.
May He Bless you with the wisdom and strength for the task/responsibility. In Him.

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Katy - Thank you for your clarification.
Yes, the age of that Article confirms that truth remains truth - whereas, those things outside of Scripture, fall to the ground in time.
You've caused me to look up your reference and felt the whole of that chapter would fit in with the subject of this thread.

I'm only looking at the Title of the thread in this matter.

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Thank The Lord for the Ballast of His Word.
God Bless all by It.

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[b]CONTEMPLATIVE SPIRITUALITY - THE LATEST 'CHRISTIAN' CRAZE[/b]
By Paul Proctor

The greatest danger to the church today is not the atheist, the agnostic, the liberal, the humanist, the Marxist or even the Muslim extremist, but rather the "Christian" who subtly blends truth and lie resulting in a designer deity and discipline that finds common ground with the very enemies of Christ so as to become modish and marketable to the mainstream.

When one leavens the Christian faith with New Age teachings and practices, the result is a sacrilegious synthetic that is every bit as damning as the New Age itself, minus the stigma, rendering it more perilous than its predecessor precisely because of its churchy disguise. By way of the Hegelian Dialectic, many professing Christians are now embracing and promoting the hottest new hybrid to hit the church today, called "Contemplative Spirituality," that brings certain beliefs and practices from Eastern Mysticism into otherwise Christian worship to effectively permit, provide and promote what biblical Christianity does not.

Thesis (Christianity) + Antithesis (New Age) = Synthesis (Contemplative)

This dialectic derivative and its use of chants, more commonly associated with Zen Buddhism and the Transcendental Meditation of Hinduism, is becoming well entrenched in the Christian culture and being practiced for the sole purpose of emptying one's mind in order to experience an altered state of consciousness, (aka, "Alpha," "Nirvana," etc.) and the spiritual empowerment of "finding God within," which ultimately results in, among other things, silence, darkness, voices, visions and a "presence" erroneously assumed to be Divine - certainly not something Jesus taught His followers, but instead what He often delivered the demonically oppressed and possessed from - now ironically and tragically what many young "Christians" are actually seeking.

"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out. And when he cometh, he findeth it swept and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh to him seven other spirits more wicked than himself; and they enter in, and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first." - Luke 11:24-26

Nowhere in scripture are we encouraged to recite mind-emptying mantras but are in fact, specifically commanded NOT to engage in them. Jesus considered such things to be a "heathen" practice. Nevertheless, today's Emergent enthusiasts fondly refer to it as "Contemplative Prayer" or "Centering Prayer." Some even use biblical words and phrases as their mantra, known to many as "lectio divina," which essentially turns the Word of God into a meaningless mechanism of magical mush. Still others choose the repetition of very short prayers that can each be voiced within in a single breath to achieve "the silence" – calling them "breath prayers."

"But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking." - Matthew 6:7

And please don't write me citing the Lord's Prayer as an example of God condoning recitation. The Lord's Prayer was an example of HOW to pray, not WHAT to pray.

We all know what an insult it is to be patronized and propagandized by anonymously authored speeches, store bought sermons and ghostwritten books where someone feigns the wisdom, insight and sincerity of another by claiming and/or reciting their words as their own before an audience to artificially accomplish what they could not authentically articulate themselves. Even though this is becoming an increasingly accepted practice in our conscience-free culture, when it comes right down to it, nobody likes a hypocrite or a schmooze. And when we perform prefabricated prayers or chant monotonous mumbo jumbo to vacate our brains for ecstatic experiences instead of honestly opening our hearts in prayer and supplication before the Lord Jesus Christ, we demonstrate to Him and everyone else that we have nothing real to offer, and worse, aren't all that interested in anything He has to say to us through His Word, because we're in it for the high, not for religious "dogma," as it is so insultingly referred to by many from within the Emerging Church movement who are clearly no more convicted by the Holy Spirit than the carnally-minded crowds that followed Jesus around to get their stomachs stuffed.

Imagine your child communicating with you by reading someone else's scripted speech - or just repeating to you the very same words and phrases over and over and over until their eyes roll back in the head. Do you honestly think that would bring the two of you closer together? Why then do Contemplatives think recitations and incantations will bring us closer to our Father in Heaven? I dare say that the only one it will bring them closer to is the prince of this world.

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world." - 1st John 4:1

Frankly, those who indulge in Contemplative prayer and walk Labyrinths to get a buzz for Jesus are no better off than winos mumbling and stumbling through a maze of darkened downtown streets only to wind up languishing alone on cardboard beds beneath bridges and between buildings, because the end is the same - confusion, delusion, depression and death. They're not following Christ or obeying His Word, they're only junkies chasing a high and running from the reality of their own rebellion by attempting to anesthetize their pain and escape accountability - all the while justifying themselves by sorting through the conjectural compost of beard-stroking street urchins and calling it "Emergent conversation."

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ." - Colossians 2:8

Contemplative Spirituality is finding its way into the church these days largely through youth groups, events, conferences, concerts, and coffee houses where Emergent leaders and their wayward wisdom wow young wannabes into mind-numbing mysticism right under the noses of ignorant and/or delinquent parents and pastors who assume their teens are being instructed in the faith of their fathers, having, in absentia, abdicated their spiritual duty over to change agents so they themselves can passionately pursue their own purpose driven lives.

The seeker-sensitive pulpits of America long ago jettisoned the fear of the Lord and the Gospel of repentance in order to partake in the pragmatic pleasures of personal experience and cuddle in the cozy compromise of consensus, spawning a generation of "Christians" that care not about the absolute truth of God's Word but only about turning inward for gratification and guidance and outward for adulation and affirmation, just like their PDL parents, making them more compliant to the coming one-world religion of tolerance, diversity and unity. Simply put, Contemplative prayer is quickly becoming the transition tool of choice to ultimately unite a compromised church with a wanton world through mysticism.

"Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools…" - Romans 1:21-22

If you would like to know just who these Contemplative gurus are and what they're teaching today's young people, I would invite you to bookmark the following websites below #1, 2, and 3, where a wealth of information is available. Just because your son or daughter is an active member of a "traditional church," don't make the mistake of thinking they aren't being tempted to join in and experience this latest "Christian" craze.

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you." - 2nd Corinthians 6:14-17

Related Articles:

1. Lighthouse Trails Research
2. Eastern Regional Watch (Contemplative/Emergent Section)
3. Christian Research Service (Contemplative Section)


http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/

http://lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?cat=3

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I was so blessed by reading this last article posted.


The greatest danger to the church today is not the atheist, the agnostic, the liberal, the humanist, the Marxist or even the Muslim extremist, but rather the "Christian" who subtly blends truth and lie resulting in a designer deity and discipline that finds common ground with the very enemies of Christ so as to become modish and marketable to the mainstream.


So many Christians today are so wrapped up in the politics of the world and the war and Fox news, that it would seem the greatest of a filibuster the enemy would use to keep our minds off of what is really going on from a Spiritual perspective....fleecing the Sheep in more ways then one.

As we all join hands in fighting the Islam’s and terror, we are not Growing in the Grace and Knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Islam is not the enemy.....ignorance; apathy and indifference is the greatest enemy IN the church today.

I pray for those and am so thankful for those who will speak the truth from the roof tops! God Bless those who do!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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crsschk

If you would like to know just who these Contemplative gurus are and what they're teaching today's young people, I would invite you to bookmark the following websites below ...

Of the links you provided I would add a note of discretion just as well. Whatever their intentions, and amongst others, they did an especial disservice to George Fox by their equating him at fault and linking to some fringe cultic group borrowing of his name.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=13444&forum=16&post_id=&refresh=Go]A QUAKE THAT SHOOK ENGLAND by Greg Gordon[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=category&cid=410]George Fox[/url]

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I would bring your concern to their attention.
It is one of the more reputable ministries out there - so I'm sure they would be interested.
I've yet to meet a 100% inerrant human - so I would never discredit 'any' ministry on the basis of just the mention of one man. Just as I wouldn't want this Site that we're on, discredited for the variety of authors carried.
I wrote extensively 28 years ago, things that I wouldn't necessarily write today. Though not "error" in the sense of heresy - but I believe when I was younger, I gave much more credit to humans than I would now, nor would I shun any large ministry, solely on the basis of one favored author.
I have Quakers in my own family, so I am somewhat familiar.
The type ministries that were linked to above, meet the most critical judgments of all and are seldom on most people's Favorites List, though they carry one of the hardest of all ministries.
With all due Respect for all that preach(ed) the centrality of Christ, in sincerity.

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George Fox thought Paul to be, I guess, someone beneath George Fox's standards or opinion of himself and the Written Word of God.

Also known as the Godfather of the feminist movement, encouraged women to leave the home and preach, also promoting the complete opposite of Paul's teaching (or rather God's inspired Word through Paul) concerning Husband and wife.

George Fox and Company did not obey or follow the following Scripture.

1 Timothy 2
1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;

2For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;


1 Peter 2:12-14
12Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.

13Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.


http://www.cephas-library.com/renovare_willow_creek.html

http://www.universalistfriends.org/intro.html

http://pamphlets.quaker.org/QUF.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quakerism


One MUST study the background of George Fox against the Written Word of God and decide if George truly was Moved by the Holy Spirit that moved him away from scripture rather then obey Scripture. The INNER LIGHT He was moved By is in opposition to the LIGHT we abide in, Jesus Christ, the Light of the World.

And look where that behavior has taken them today!!!


George Fox may very well be quaking still in dread of Judgement Day.

Love in Christ Jesus
Katy-Did


2 Thessalonians 3:14
And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.


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crsschk

And look where that behavior has taken them today!!!

You would be wise to look to your own and your poor comments.

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A previous posting for those interested ...

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=7778&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Quakers, old and new, and the 'inner light'[/url]

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You would be wise to look to your own and your poor comments

crsschk, Your comment was out of line.

George Fox did not use scripture to guide his "inner light"....and rebelled against many scriptures.

We are sanctified through the Truth, and Jesus said the WORD is truth.

Now, George Fox, who disobeyed scripture, you EXALT for this, and yet call my comments poor.

I stand by what I say, and warn others to look thoroughly into the teachings of George Fox.

The Holy Spirit illuminates God's Word, He doesn't thumb His nose at it and say....Hay, I the Holy Spirit have exalted myself above the Word of God...follow me. That's totally contrary to scripture.

Yes, look where this INNER LIGHT has taken them.

THY WORD is a LAMP unto my feet...a LIGHT unto my path.

We are Born Again of the WORD OF GOD!!! James.
Cleansed through the Word, Sanctified through the WORD. Obviously you have more respect for men and their INNER LIGHT then the WORD.


You would be wise to look to your own and your poor comments.

No Dear!! We are to LOOK on others as more important than ourselves....even when telling the truth comes back with a thoughtless reply. That's also in the WORD.

Unless George Fox has been resurrected, George Fox will be what he was. There is no new George Fox.

Love in Christ
Katy-did
George Fox felt that the INNER LIGHT far exceeded obedience to the Word of God.

I know that is not the LIGHT David spoke of in the Psalms,

Thy [b][color=CC0000]WORD [/color][/b]is a [b][color=CC0000]LIGHT[/color][/b]unto my feet, and a [b][color=CC0000]LAMP[/color][/b] unto my path.

George Fox dis-reguarded the Word as secondary to the INNER LIGHT he had...hummmmmmmm!

Also the WORD of God is LIVING and Powerful and sharper than a two edge sword. And no where when we put on the whole armour of God is the "Inner Light" even mentioned. Actually the INNER LIGHT concept is not even in scripture at all.

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crsschk, Your comment was out of line.

No, it is your behavior and mean spiritedness amongst other things. There is nothing more diabolical than the business of climbing into someone's head, filling it with ones own notions and then attempting to tear him or her down. It is setting up a scarecrow and then putting a match to it.

These are your own statements below, that you wish to carry back and forth between threads. Compare them with the contrasts here;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19694&forum=35#154307]Is speaking in tongues...[/url]

LOVE thinks NO EVIL as you have of me in your false accusations of my being a smart *whatever*. Comments like that are filtered through your OWN mind and reveal YOUR unloving attitude all ready formulated back on another blog.

Now, George Fox, who disobeyed scripture, you EXALT for this, and yet call my comments poor.

Precisely what you are doing. Where did you come up with the notion that I was exalting him? A fair treatment is what all should be given ...

AND you are presuming to assume that you know EXACTLY what I am talking about, or who I am or what motivates me.Please don't, by your own comments....re-arranging my thoughts and telling me and others what I did and didn't say to begin with.

No duplicity here?

Some believe in following their INNER LIGHT, without God's Word to sanctify our minds and give us the mind of Christ. What a dangerous concept. This INNER LIGHT seems to want NEW revelations and thinks very little of the tried and true complete nothing new need be added scriptures.

Carried over from this post as insinuation ...

George Fox may very well be quaking still in dread of Judgement Day.

And you? What pride and haughtiness to level such a flippant charge, your comment is out of line in it's very utterance, what happened to;

[i]"LOVE thinks NO EVIL"[/i] ? Your words.

Furthermore you wish to contend with us in the same manner of spirit;

I guess teh problem many have with me including the moderators is that I LOVE the WORD of God. I don't play around with it.

Unfortunately you do play around with it not recognizing your duplicity and forgetting that those you may have disagreement with also love God's word. Furthermore your digs at the moderators and this site only continue;

What your really saying is, Be quiet, if you don't agree with others. Read SI's standing on the subject....agree or get off!!!

What is "SI's standing"? With such a variety of opinion here in sermons, articles even the discussions themselves you would have to fall back on the notions that you are assuming and accusing others of doing. If there is a 'standing' here it is to put a decided halt to these very notions that cause schisms, divisiveness and quarreling over things not even entered into the minds of those being accused of doing so. It doesn't matter if the subject is transmissions or predestination, it is the behavior, conduct and this diabolical evil that continually jumps to conclusions by the deadly poison of assumption, suspicion, ill will, on and on it goes.

One MUST study the background of George Fox against the Written Word of God

Absolutely! And it behooves us as disciples to do so rightly with honesty and integrity, credibility. To lash out and jump all over something, someone without presenting facts accurately and fairly is a disservice. Worse, to present links to obvious cults and others who have taken bit's and pieces and decided to craft their own take on things and use that as the foundation for 'proving' is decidedly cruel and grievous. Would the same logic be used against the Lord, since the Jehovah's Witness's or the Mormons or any of the multitudes that use His Name, borrow that which they like and discard the rest ...

George Fox dis-reguarded the Word as secondary to the INNER LIGHT he had...hummmmmmmm!

On the contrary. Though there is much in question undoubtedly over this 'inner light' and what it meant to him or what he tried to express there is as much to state the very opposite.

[i]"'The scripture says' is not only a phrase with Fox. His searching before conversion gave him and almost encyclopaedic grasp of the scripture. It would be almost impossible for someone like Fox to go contrary to the scripture accidentally. This makes 'Fox's' "inner light" a much safer luminary than "inner light" in others.[/i]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=7778&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]Quakers, old and new, and the 'inner light'[/url]

Is this so? In all honesty my memory is not sufficient to recall this exactly but from what I have read in the past of him this rings true still. I do not know nor will assume what level of attention you may have given him and his writings but to make the dangerous statement of his standing before the Lord is beyond the bounds of a saint and shows your pride in thinking you know or would even harbor a guess.

The greater point in all of this is not in George Fox but in touching the nerve of ourselves in how easily we apply wrong judgment without factual representation to back it up. Even then, all of the facts, all the ministry, all of the life, all the things to be considered go by the wayside ...

To touch back to the discernment ministries again. These need their own discernment. The tendencies are to go too far in their temperament and they begin to cherry pick at any mention or equivalent to their particular bias and rather than being a help to the unwary end up being an entity unto themselves. In other words they lose credibility by not presenting facts as they are and let the reader do their own deciding, rather they tend to group and whitewash everything into their presuppositions. For all the good that can do in warning they can undo in being pragmatic to further their cause.

Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=19700&forum=13&post_id=&refresh=Go]Some notations regarding "This Forum"[/url]

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Ephesians 5
1Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children;

2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;

4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

7Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

8For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

9(For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth;)

10Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.

12For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.

13But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.

14Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

15See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,

16Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

17Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

18And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

19Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

20Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

21Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.

22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.

25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.

29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:

30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.

31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.

32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

33Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence

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What I posted earlier in reply -

I would bring your concern to their attention.
It is one of the more reputable ministries out there - so I'm sure they would be interested.
I've yet to meet a 100% inerrant human - so I would never discredit 'any' ministry on the basis of just the mention of one man. Just as I wouldn't want this Site that we're on, discredited for the variety of authors carried.
I wrote extensively 28 years ago, things that I wouldn't necessarily write today. Though not "error" in the sense of heresy - but I believe when I was younger, I gave much more credit to humans than I would now, nor would I shun any large ministry, solely on the basis of one favored author.
I have Quakers in my own family, so I am somewhat familiar.
The type ministries that were linked to above, meet the most critical judgments of all and are seldom on most people's Favorites List, though they carry one of the hardest of all ministries.
With all due Respect for all that preach(ed) the centrality of Christ, in sincerity.

These links below are looking at both sides of this issue.


http://www2.gol.com/users/quakers/T&QQuaker.htm

http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/christianmysticspast.htm

http://www.universalfriends.org/statement.html

INNER LIGHT
The basic concept for understanding the Quaker belief is the idea of the Inner Light. George Fox refers to Light Within in his Journal as " ...Spirit and Grace by which all might know their salvation" "that Divine Spirit which would lead them into all l Truth." Friends believe that God is present in everyone, "Christ within." Light is in every man and that Light is Christ. The concept of the Light of God comes from the Gospel of John. John identifies the Light with the Word of God which was embodied i n Jesus Christ. The Light is the source of knowledge of good and evil and of all religious truth. The obedience to the Light is a source of salvation. The Divine Light is in every man of any religion and is universal. The Light within is not to be identif ied with conscience, which is human and fallible. The Light represents spiritual power which increases awareness of permanent values, instructs and transforms conscience and represents the most excellent ethical development ! that we are capable of. It is "God http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/~rs133/Resources/StudentPapers/quaker.html


George Fox -

"Walk cheerfully over the world,
answering that of God in everyone."

"The Light shines through all."

"There is that of divinity in all things."
http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/fosteranduniversalism.htm

http://brooklynquaker.blogspot.com/2006/03/more-from-new-george-fox-web-site.html

http://www.bible.ca/cr-quakers.htm

http://www.qis.net/~daruma/hoare.html

http://lightandsilence.org/quakers/george_fox/

http://www.qhpress.org/texts/gfprinc.html#s2

http://www.qhpress.org/texts/oldqwhp/gf-e-toc.htm

http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/05/contemplating_t.html

http://www.bustedhalo.com/features/TheLight.htm

_______________________________________________

There are [b]some[/b] "discernment ministries" that the Church needs to be very grateful for.
They were the ones who exposed the WOF movement and others. The Apostle Paul was in the "discernment ministry" - naming names and all.

When they report - it is our job to be Bereans and search out what they are saying. To just say, "I don't agree with them" without doing the many hours of Research that they have done on the subject would be completely unfair and non-fact-based.
To be in that ministry - one needs it to have it as a Full-Time Job. The amount of Research is not within most people's calling nor time allowances nor capability.

Regardless of what one feels about what they read in the links above - in their Research - to disparage Discernment Ministries is something I would never want to find myself doing. Unless through my own hours of Research to find them biased in some way - and I could name a few "discernment minstries" that I could say that about, but I have also 'contacted' them with what I found that showed that they were biased.

For one Christian Website to be disparging others is not the proper course of action here.

These Discernment Ministries "contact" those who they are writing "about" first, to see if they can reason together with the WORD.

It would be much wiser that we not put down another ministry unless we first try to reason with them ourselves first or do the amount of Research that they do, with contacts and all, before we speak a word against them.

"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is what I see needed here the most.

I've attempted to share that view in my first post, quoted above.

With all due respect in Christ.

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Meant to add - was not sure whether to post what I have to the Quaker thread or here - but in light of the Title of this thread - felt that we are in the days, when Jesus told us to "Watch" and to discern the times and Teachings, all the more, because deceptions are on the increase.
I would say, Incredibly Increasing.
Jesus said, "Beware."

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This too is from a Quaker site and their beliefs.

They deny the DIETY of Christ. All men DO NOT have the Spirit of God within them, that comes only as we receive Jesus Christ THE SON OF GOD as our Personal Lord and Savior.


What do Quakers believe?

It's difficult, possibly dangerous, to try to summarize any faith in two or three sentences. But in brief Friends believe that the Spirit of God is present in every human being, and every one who seeks to do so can communicate directly and continuously with God at any time and place, needing no clergy or intermediaries. Every one also has responsibilities toward all other persons since they contain something of God. In both relationships -- with God and with other humans -- one relies upon guidance by the inner light which comes from God.

Do they have a formal creed?

They have strong beliefs but no formal creed. The Society of Friends does not require of its members the acceptance of any formula of belief. It holds that the basis of religious fellow- ship is an inward, personal experience, and the essentials of Quaker unity are the love of God and the love of all humanity.

How do these Quakers define God?

Quakers have always tended to speak of the "inner light" or spirit rather than of any more personified God. In general they believe that God is revealed to an individual in the way that each can best understand through the lives of Jesus and others, through the beauties of nature, through the arts and sciences. Through the love of family and friends- One of the values of the Society of Friends is that it allows, even forces, each member or attendee to develop a personal definition of God. Thus to some Quakers God may be a rather specific or concrete figure. To others God may be a rather vague force. But nearly all accept the existence of something which distinguishes human beings from the rest of the world, and which gives each of us a recognition of existence, an ability to think, a willingness to set moral standards of right and wrong, and an acceptance of the responsibility to follow that which is right.

What about the position of Jesus?

Here we begin to concentrate on the kind of Friends whom we characterized as holding to unprogrammed worship and non-conservative- beliefs. Many of these Friends would question the divinity of Jesus. In fact rather than being trinitarian they seem to hold a unitarian belief, with God and the Holy Spirit as interlocked. Jesus is thus regarded as a person who more than most achieved sensitivity to God and the ability to express it. At least to a lesser degree this is also regarded as true of many other religious seers and leaders. Quakers do not establish ranks of saints or prophets, but they respect those persons in the past and present who seem to have this Christlike ability to express religious thinking and to show others the way in which we should try to live.

Katy-Did

PS Oh Yes and this!!
Are Quakers "born again"?

They see no reason why this should be necessary. If each of us has that of God within us, and is guided by the inner light of that divinity, we should continue throughout our lives trying to live as best we can by that light. Quakers think very little about sin, but when they do they regard it not as anything innate but as a failure to live as well as one should and could. As such, it is in the past and atonement for it is not through some penance or now birth, but in a renewed and continued attempt to do better in the present and future. Friends are confident that God supports this effort, and that such support does not depend on some sudden point of conversion or salvation. Similarly, Friends are sure that from birth they are in this relationship with God as part of their very existence and hence there is no need or question of "accepting Christ" or "being saved" or "being redeemed from sin". God is always present and it is merely a matter of being as sensitive as possible to the divine presence and guidance.

Jesus said Ye MUST be Born Again.

I will go with the written WORD of God over the vain imaginations of men any day of the Week.


YES! I LOVE THE WORD OF GOD, and nowhere does God's Word say I am to LOVE the False teachings of False religions at the expense of The Truth that is in Christ Jesus.

And don't let anyone bully you into believing it either!!!!

Praise God when men will say all manner of evil against you for Righteousness sake!!!! GREAT is your reward in Heaven!!!

PS: Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment.

Absolutely, crsschk, Absolutely!!!


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http://endtimepilgrim.org/corrie.htm

[b][Part of this letter by Corrie Ten Boom, appears in the book "When Jesus Returns" by British evangelist and Bible teacher David Pawson.]


""The world is deathly ill. It is dying. The Great Physician has already signed the death certificate. Yet there is still a great work for Christians to do. They are to be streams of living water, channels of mercy to those who are still in the world. It is possible for them to do this because they are overcomers.
Christians are ambassadors for Christ. They are representatives from Heaven to this dying world. And because of our presence here, things will change.

My sister, Betsy, and I were in the Nazi concentration camp at Ravensbruck because we committed the crime of loving Jews. Seven hundred of us from Holland, France, Russia, Poland and Belgium were herded into a room built for two hundred. As far as I knew, Betsy and I were the only two representatives of Heaven in that room.

We may have been the Lord's only representatives in that place of hatred, yet because of our presence there, things changed. Jesus said, "In the world you shall have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world." We too, are to be overcomers – bringing the light of Jesus into a world filled with darkness and hate.

Sometimes I get frightened as I read the Bible, and as I look in this world and see all of the tribulation and persecution promised by the Bible coming true. Now I can tell you, though, if you too are afraid, that I have just read the last pages. I can now come to shouting "Hallelujah! Hallelujah!" for I have found where it is written that Jesus said,

"He that overcometh shall inherit all things:
and I will be His God,
and he shall be My son."
This is the future and hope of this world. Not that the world will survive – but that we shall be overcomers in the midst of a dying world.
Betsy and I, in the concentration camp, prayed that God would heal Betsy who was so weak and sick.
"Yes, the Lord will heal me,", Betsy said with confidence.
She died the next day and I could not understand it. They laid her thin body on the concrete floor along with all the other corpses of the women who died that day.

It was hard for me to understand, to believe that God had a purpose for all that. Yet because of Betsy's death, today I am traveling all over the world telling people about Jesus.

There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this. These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days. Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution.

In China, the Christians were told, "Don't worry, before the tribulation comes you will be translated – raptured." Then came a terrible persecution. Millions of Christians were tortured to death. Later I heard a Bishop from China say, sadly,


"We have failed.
We should have made the people strong for persecution,
rather than telling them Jesus would come first.
Tell the people how to be strong in times of persecution,
how to stand when the tribulation comes,
– to stand and not faint."
I feel I have a divine mandate to go and tell the people of this world that it is possible to be strong in the Lord Jesus Christ. We are in training for the tribulation, but more than sixty percent of the Body of Christ across the world has already entered into the tribulation. There is no way to escape it.
We are next.
Since I have already gone through prison for Jesus' sake, and since I met the Bishop in China, now every time I read a good Bible text I think, "Hey, I can use that in the time of tribulation." Then I write it down and learn it by heart.

When I was in the concentration camp, a camp where only twenty percent of the women came out alive, we tried to cheer each other up by saying, "Nothing could be any worse than today." But we would find the next day was even worse. During this time a Bible verse that I had committed to memory gave me great hope and joy.

"If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye;
for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you;
on their part evil is spoken of,
but on your part He is glorified."
(I Peter 3:14)
I found myself saying, "Hallelujah!
Because I am suffering, Jesus is glorified!"
In America, the churches sing, "Let the congregation escape tribulation", but in China and Africa the tribulation has already arrived. This last year alone more than two hundred thousand Christians were martyred in Africa. Now things like that never get into the newspapers because they cause bad political relations. But I know. I have been there. We need to think about that when we sit down in our nice houses with our nice clothes to eat our steak dinners. Many, many members of the Body of Christ are being tortured to death at this very moment, yet we continue right on as though we are all going to escape the tribulation.

Several years ago I was in Africa in a nation where a new government had come into power. The first night I was there some of the Christians were commanded to come to the police station to register. When they arrived they were arrested and that same night they were executed. The next day the same thing happened with other Christians. The third day it was the same. All the Christians in the district were being systematically murdered.

The fourth day I was to speak in a little church. The people came, but they were filled with fear and tension. All during the service they were looking at each other, their eyes asking, "Will this one I am sitting beside be the next one killed? Will I be the next one?"

The room was hot and stuffy with insects that came through the screenless windows and swirled around the naked bulbs over the bare wooden benches. I told them a story out of my childhood.

"When I was a little girl, " I said, "I went to my father and said,
"Daddy, I am afraid that I will never be strong enough to be a martyr for Jesus Christ."
"Tell me," said Father,
"When you take a train trip to Amsterdam,
when do I give you the money for the ticket?
Three weeks before?"

"No, Daddy, you give me the money for the ticket just before we get on the train."

"That is right," my father said, "and so it is with God's strength.
Our Father in Heaven knows when you will need the strength to be a martyr for Jesus Christ.
He will supply all you need – just in time…"

My African friends were nodding and smiling.
Suddenly a spirit of joy descended upon that church and the people began singing,

" In the sweet, by and by,
we shall meet on that beautiful shore."
Later that week, half the congregation of that church was executed.
I heard later that the other half was killed some months ago.
But I must tell you something. I was so happy that the Lord used me to encourage these people, for unlike many of their leaders, I had the word of God. I had been to the Bible and discovered that Jesus said He had not only overcome the world, but to all those who remained faithful to the end, He would give a crown of life.

How can we get ready for the persecution?

First we need to feed on the Word of God, digest it, make it a part of our being. This will mean disciplined Bible study each day as we not only memorize long passages of scripture, but put the principles to work in our lives.

Next we need to develop a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Not just the Jesus of yesterday, the Jesus of History,
but the life-changing Jesus of today who is still alive
and sitting at the right hand of God.

We must be filled with the Holy Spirit. This is no optional command of the Bible, it is absolutely necessary. Those earthly disciples could never have stood up under the persecution of the Jews and Romans had they not waited for Pentecost. Each of us needs our own personal Pentecost, the baptism of the Holy Spirit. We will never be able to stand in the tribulation without it.

In the coming persecution we must be ready to help each other and encourage each other.
But we must not wait until the tribulation comes before starting.
The fruit of the Spirit should be the dominant force of every Christian's life.

Many are fearful of the coming tribulation, they want to run. I, too, am a little bit afraid when I think that after all my eighty years, including the horrible Nazi concentration camp, that I might have to go through the tribulation also.
But then I read the Bible and I am glad.

When I am weak, then I shall be strong, the Bible says. Betsy and I were prisoners for the Lord, we were so weak, but we got power because the Holy Spirit was on us. That mighty inner strengthening of the Holy Spirit helped us through. No, you will not be strong in yourself when the tribulation comes. Rather, you will be strong in the power of Him who will not forsake you. For seventy-six years I have known the Lord Jesus and not once has He ever left me, or let me down.

"Though He slay me, yet will I trust Him", (Job 13:15)
for I know that to all who overcome,
He shall give the crown of life.
Hallelujah!""

- Corrie Ten Boom - 1974

____________________________________________________

A Letter From Ruth Bell Graham [/b]

http://www.tedmontgomery.com/bblovrvw/Rapture/ruth.html

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2nd Timothy says, those who live Godly in Christ Jesus will be persecuted. When does one first live Godly in Christ Jesus? At the Time of their New Birth? Absolutely!

The Children of the Flesh HATE the children of th Spirit. At the beginning of the Church age Paul and Peter along with others wrote numerous times about our persecutions as Christians and to expect them. This is not about a FURURE persecutuion ,but one that accompanies Salvation.

There have been wars and persecutions from the very beginning, so for us to think we need to prepare for the Great Tribulation, as thought it were an event not yet in America is wrong. Americans may not be murdered, bheaded or the likes, but American Christians living Godly in Christ Jesus ARE Persecuted. With that in mind I share another perspective on the teaching of the Rapture or catching away.

However much we love Corrie Ten Boom, "Antipas, my faithful martyr" died standing for the Word of God in His time...Stephen, and more then we can number were persecuted for speaking the Truth

There are those who claim that the pretribulation rapture is an evil deception because it was invented by evil Jesuits (the evil henchmen of the Catholic Church) for the purpose of deceiving and countering the Protestant reformation, and to distract from the prophetic interpretation of the reformers that the Pope was the antichrist.
For a long time, I felt it unnecessary to investigate these claims, for several obvious reasons. Most importantly, the doctrine of the rapture does not stand or fall on who may have first noticed and taught certain elements of doctrine in scripture. The rapture doctrine is valid only if it is supported by scripture. The Protestant reformation was based on turning to scripture to resolve matters.
2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That alone should be enough to put this entire matter to rest, and nothing more need be said. It is obvious that we must agree that something true, such as 2+2=4, remains true, even when such a truth is spoken by a liar, or the most evil man. Truth does not become untrue just because an evil or stupid man speaks it. Therefore, there is simply no basis for the claim that the rapture is an evil deception because futurism was once taught by an evil Jesuit. I could read 1000 pages on how the Jesuits are evil, and I can even agree on that. I could even read about, and agree that, an evil Jesuit expounded the doctrine of futurism for the evil purpose of trying to discredit the Protestant reformation. But neither of those facts has any bearing on the truthfulness of the doctrine of the pretribulation rapture.
Further, not only is the entire idea of the "Jesuit rapture" irrelevant (only scripture is relevant) but also, the idea is absurd. The doctrine of the pretribulation rapture is simply not taught by the Catholic Church! Therefore, the doctrine of the pretribulation rapture condemns the Catholic Church because it makes the Catholic Church into a "false prophet" since they do not teach it!
Yet, despite these self-evident truths which destroy the claims that "the pretribulation rapture is an evil deception because it was invented by evil Jesuit Catholics", there is no shortage of web sites that take this position. You can find many such web sites if you go to a search engine and search for "rapture jesuit ribera".
Francisco Ribera was a Jesuit, and he wrote a book on Bible Prophecy in 1585-1590 (?) with the perspective of "futurism". However, Ribera did not invent futurism! The key element of a future antichrist is easily seen in scripture itself and requires no inventiveness of any kind. Ribera simply read 2 Thess 2:3-4 and took the words "temple of God" to mean a literal rebuilt temple in Jerusalem instead of the view of the reformers that the "temple of God" was referring to the Church, because, of course, the body is the temple. (1 Corinthians 6:19, John 2:21) If anything, the view of the reformers was more inventive (requiring a sort of spiritualized substitution of words) than Ribera's view! Additionally, it is far more obvious to see the 1260 days and/or 42 months, of Revelation 12 & 13 as 3.5 years of 1260 literal days than as 1260 years. It takes no evil inventive subversive genius to simply believe what the Bible says! But the view of a future antichrist in a future literal temple is so clearly evident in the scriptures (and not an invented heresy) that it was also taught by men over 1000 years earlier by Church Fathers such as Irenaeus & Hippolytus around 125 AD. You can look those names up in a search engine and find that Irenaeus & Hippolytus interpreted Daniel's 70th week as a future event, with a future antichrist to come during a final period of tribulation. To read Irenaeus, see "IRENAEUS AGAINST HERESIES - BOOK V", Chapter 25, paragraph 4 at http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/0103525.htm or http://www.ccel.org/fathers/ANF-01/iren/iren5.html or http://www.gnosis.org/library/advh5.htm To read in the Bible about the antichrist to come, see Daniel 7-12, 2 Thess 2, Matt 24, and Rev 12-13.
There are a few more false assumptions made by those who would deny the pretribulation rapture because of it's supposed Jesuit origins, and I would like to examine a few of them:
False assumption #1. They assume that the reformers and martyrs, because they died for the faith, must have had an absolutely correct and perfect view of prophecy. This assumption elevates men above scripture. The men of the Protestant reformation died because they fought against revering men, they died for the right of all men to respect scripture more than men. Therefore, putting the prophetic beliefs of the reformers and martyrs up on a pedestal is exactly the opposite of the principle for which they fought and died.
If the reformers had the ability and the right to make Christ as their head instead of the Pope, and they trusted the words of Jesus that he would lead them into truth, and they trusted in their ability to read and comprehend the scriptures, then there is nothing stopping us from doing the same thing ourselves.
Speaking of the beliefs of the reformers; there were many early English Bible translations before the King James Version in 1611. In at least seven of these early English translations from the 1500's, the Greek word "apostasia" from 2 Thess 2:3 was translated "departure" or "departing", instead of "falling away" as in the King James, or "rebellion" in other modern translations. When the word is seen as "departure", the verse can easily be seen to teach that the departure, or rapture, must come first, before the Day of the Lord is present, or that the tribulation is present. Therefore, this verse, and the early English translations of many of those martyred for the faith, strongly support the position of the pretribulation rapture. But unless one has the perspective that this prophecy is about future events and sees that the Day of the Lord starts at the time of the coming tribulation, then the "pretribulation" implications of 2 Thess 2:3 might be missed.
I acknowledge that the reformers had a good understanding of prophecy, but certainly not perfect. Not even the authors of the Bible claimed to understand prophecy perfectly in all points.
1 Corinthians 13
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
But we, who live in the last time, should understand prophecy better than any previous generation, because that's what Daniel says, "knowledge shall be increased," and "the wise shall understand."
Daniel 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
...
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
False assumption #2. They assume that the futurist view of a future antichrist is incompatible with the historicist view that the pope is the antichrist. Nothing could be further from the truth. There are often double or multiple references and double or multiple fulfillments in scripture. Just because there is an "antichrist to come" does not mean there cannot now be any antichrists such as the Pope. The scriptures clearly indicate both a future antichrist to come, and the existence of antichrists at the time scripture was written. Futurism, and the view of the pretribulation rapture, does not take the heat off the Pope.
In the following two scriptures, the future antichrist to come is indicated by the phrases "ye have heard that antichrist shall come" and "whereof ye have heard that it should come". In addition with that, and not to refute that, the verses also indicate the presence of the antichrist already in the world by the phrases, "even now are there many antichrists", and "even now already is it in the world."
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
Therefore, to say that the issue is one where the antichrist must either be interpreted as coming in the future only, or existing now in the present only, is really quite a distortion, or lie. Anyone can simply read the scriptures, and easily conclude the answer is both! Those who adhere to the view that it must be "either/or", and not both, are the ones who are playing into the hands of the Jesuits, since it was only by framing the argument in those terms could the Jesuits be successful.
False assumption #3. Often it is assumed or claimed that Francisco Ribera invented the pretribulation rapture. But Ribera did not teach the pretribulation rapture, he primarily taught futurism, and an antichrist to come in the future. Admittedly, yes, Ribera did place the rapture 45 days prior to the end of a 3.5 year tribulation, but not 7 years before. And so, some say he was the first (I don't believe he was, in fact, the first) to split the timing of the rapture and the physical return of Christ. But Ribera's view was more of a form of post tribulation or pre wrath viewpoint where the Church has to go through most of the tribulation.
False assumption #4. Some claim, on the one hand, that the few thousands of early reformers who were killed for their faith somehow proves that their prophetic interpretation of historicism was true. On the other hand, these same people who deny the rapture will claim that the millions in China who were taught about the pretribulation rapture and who were killed for their faith just goes to show that they had the wrong prophetic view. Hmm... It seems that there is a gross inconsistency in the application of this principle which views martyrs for the faith as automatically having the right prophetic views.
I have read that Corrie Ten Boom, a Christian woman who went through the horrors of the Jewish holocaust, said that the doctrine of the pretribulation rapture deceived many Christians in China who were martyred because they were not prepared for being persecuted, because they were taught that persecution would only come in the future. Well, there are several problems with her evaluation. First, there is nothing in the pretrib view that says that there cannot be tribulation today. Therefore, the pretrib view was not responsible for "not preparing" anyone for persecution. So, if Christians in China were unprepared for persecution, then it must have been that they were taught an erroneous view of the pretribulation rapture. Second, there is no need to lament the deaths of Christians, if one has any understanding and faith in the resurrection at all. That's what 1 Thess 4, which is about the rapture, is all about.
1 Thess 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
Again, to revere Corrie Ten Boom's evaluation of the rapture as somehow worthy of adulation since she suffered at the hands of the Nazis is the same old error of elevating the opinions of men above what scripture says.

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Katy, all I can do is smile. If you could have only read my mind of "why" I posted that.
Anyway - moving on along --- I came to my belief that I now hold to, after having been Pre for years and then by just reading my Bible alone, many years ago, long before computers - came to what I believe now through and by Scripture Only.
I hadn't heard of Corrie's letter or the Origins of the Pre belief, or the ECF's quotes, etc. until a few years ago.
If you'd like me to be blunt about "why" I posted that "back on topic" post of Corrie and why I came on the tongues thread, though I didn't want to post on it prior to today, it was because I don't want to see you "gone".
Hang on to His Love Sis and have a Jesus filled night.

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sermonindex

If you'd like me to be blunt about "why" I posted that "back on topic" post of Corrie and why I came on the tongues thread, though I didn't want to post on it prior to today, it was because I don't want to see you "gone".

He-Reigns, please don't use me for a reason for posting what you did. I do believe the subject matter has not changed at all, and to sugguest posting this will keep me from geting kicked off is rather odd.

We are talking about the persecution of the Saints, not only has this always been, but will continue to be....that is the point of the article.

The Bible clearly says we are not called to Wrath, also known as the Day of the Lord.

Christians do need to know the difference between God's Wrath and persecution. God's wrath is coming to un-belivers, not to His Children.

We even discussed in the OT Saints were persecuted and sawn usunder for their faith in Christ. So why mislead people by stating THE COMING PERSECUTION only, when persecution is a sign one is saved to begin with.

The point of the article is, that because of a faulty misconception about many pre-trib teachers we will escape persecution.....that has nothing to do with the doctrine of the Rapture, no matter where you place it.

It's only the Pre-trib teachers who have never suffered with Christ to begin with that could make such a statement to begin with....and it's also those who have never suffered(post-trib) in their walk with Christ who only see persecution as something of the future. Both have a faulty understanding our our life in Christ.

We will suffer with Christ no matter no matter what. Paul said in Philippians, not only do we believe the Gospel but we are called to suffer for the Gospel too.....If THIS is taught from the beginning.......the Rapture Doctrine regardless of where you place it, has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Do you know, many during WWII, because they thought they were going through the Great Tribulation, believing Hitler to be the anti-christ, lost faith completely because they believed the rapture would take place at that time. Much of what Corrie was writing about were to those Saints who lost faith. If left in the context of why she wrote what she did, at that time, we would not be using it as a doctrine to refute any rapture at anytime. Taken out of context, it is being used to disprove the pre-trib rapture or any rapture all together. Paul clearly says we will be Caught up together with christ in the clouds. Look in your strongs *caught* . What is the definition?


We do know, WWII was NOT the great tribulation in the first place, and if people KNEW the scriptures to begin with, they should have known that too.

There were other prophesies,that must take place before the Great Tribulation, that had not taken place at the time of WWII.

Paul says the Falling Away comes first. The falling away is those who run after false teachers and false prophets and deny the Diety of Jesus Christ, and the atonement through His Blood.
These are those who have a form of godlieness, but deny the power, from such turn away. 2 Timothy 3. Which my posting on teh Quakers and George Fox's "Inner Light" Doctrine does just that. also kept in context to this thread. If I get kicked off for stating that fact...then PRAISE GOD!!!

Keeping that in perspective, along with Jesus Words, "In the World you will have tribulation, but in me you will have peace", belong to all Saints at all time regardless of when they live.

We enter the Kingdom through much tribulation, was clearly taught from the beginning of the Church Age by all the Apostles.

Paul makes many referrences to their own persecutions and tribulations at their time that they were not to worry as though the Day of the Lord( Wrath), or the Day of Christ( Rapture) had come, because he clearly is telling them certain things must happen first. Because of their sufferings and persecutions and tribulations, these saints thought they had been left behind, as did those during WWII.


Love in Christ
Katy-Did


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Sis Katy, my post of Corrie was intended for "O"s thread. Sorry you found it odd.
I personally don't see the Tribulation as the Wrath. The Wrath is in The Vials.
I need to run for now. Have a Blessed day.

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Concerning the Deity of Jesus Christ, anti-christ and end times which do apply to this thread.

The pre-eminent importance of the doctrine of the Deity of Jesus Christ in the Christian faith is shown by the fact that this is the test by which we are to distinguish between true and false prophets, between spirits which are of God and spirits which are not of God.

The Apostle John, after giving the warning, ‘Beloved, believe not every spirit, but prove the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world,’ adds these words: ‘Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God; every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God, and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof we have heard that it cometh, and now it is in the world already,’ 1 John 4:1-3.

Here we are plainly told that every one who acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, and that every one who denies the Deity of Christ is antichrist.

Regardless of how eloquent the speaker may be, how pleasing or magnetic his personality, how widespread his in influence, or even how sincere his motives, the prophet or preacher or teacher who denies the Deity of Jesus Christ is branded in Scripture as a false prophet or preacher or teacher. To this same effect Paul says: ‘No man speaking in the Spirit of God saith, Jesus is anathema; and no man can say, Jesus is Lord, but in the Holy Spirit,’1 Cor. 12:3.

Paul is declaring that only by the spiritual insight which the Holy Spirit gives as He regenerates a soul can that soul KNOW teh truth of the Deity of Jesus Christ. No one recognizes Jesus Christ as Lord and as his Lord unless he has been born again. In otherwords, an unregenerate person does not KNOW within himself Christ In You, and recognize by this Born Again experience Jesus Christ as Lord And Savior.

The man who looks at Jesus only with his own unenlightened eyes sees in Him only a man, perhaps a great man with many lofty principles and ideals, yet a man who has claimed too much for Himself and who has committed blasphemy by calling himself the Son of God. But when the Holy Spirit comes into his life, renewing and enlightening him spiritually, he then sees himself a guilty, condemned sinner who merits nothing but God’s wrath and punishment. He is also given to see, by the eye of faith, that Jesus is the Son of God, that He lived on this earth, that He was crucified for the sins of His people, that He arose from the grave, and that He now reigns from heaven.

Never does an mortal man know the Lord Jesus Christ in a pesonal way, and never does he accept Him as his Lord, unless it is given him by the Holy Spirit.

Paul says that no person can acknowledge Jesus as Lord unless he has been enlightened by the Holy Spirit. Lord meand GOD, And, incidentally, in these words he also tells us that the person who DOES acknowledge Jesus Christ as LORD has been regenerated and is assured of his salvation.

M
Miccah

Christians do need to know the difference between God's Wrath and persecution. God's wrath is coming to un-belivers, not to His Children.

I agree with you 100% on this statement. The believers that are here during the Great Trib will not suffer the Wrath of God, but they will be persecuted. Wonderful point. Many Christians do not realize this when talking about being persecuted in the end days, regardless of pre, mid or post beliefs.

In Chirst

Miccah

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