The Sabbath?

Should we keep it holy or not?

Please give me your answers based on bible texts. I would like to get answers from people who are for and against the keeping of the Sabbath.

Thank you. Jayme

Hi again, Thank you for your message.

I have a couple of bible texts that I would like to mention, I was hoping to receive pros and cons regarding the Sabbath but since it did not happen, I have s few texts that I would like someone to explain.

---First text is in Isaiah 56. Keep in mind that the text is talking about salvation for the Gentiles. I think that God is promising something really special to those who keep the Sabbath or am I wrong?

---Second text is found in Isaiah 66 22-23.

Keep in mind the part that says," and all flesh".

It seems to me that establishes the fact that it is not just for Israel, Although the apostle Paul says that we are all part of the same tree in Romans 11 09-36.

----The Third text is in Mark 15 33-47, 16 01-08,
Keep in mind that these people were Christ's Followers and pay attention to the first verse of chapter 16.

----The Last text is found in Matthew 24 15-28,
pay attention to verse 20. I think that there is no one, not one of us, that is doing what Jesus asked us to do in this verse. I can understand why Jesus would mention "pregnant mothers", and also that their "flight should not be in the winter or on the Sabbath " because it is bad news if we have to run away during this time. But he also asked us to pray so that we would not have to run away on the Sabbath. What would be the purpose of this if not to show us that this day - the Sabbath - is a special day and we should keep it holy?????

Sorry I went on for too long but I can see that all but a few are keeping the Sabbath and I am not sure if this has anything to do with it but Jesus said something about "..the way that leads to life is narrow and only a few enter through." !!!!!

Please have a look in these texts and let me know what exactly is God trying to tell me. God bless us all.!!!!

Hi and thank you for your reply.

I put some bible texts and I asked for someone to comment or give me an explanation about them. I would very much appreciate if you could read them and comment on them for me. can you do that?

I am trying to understand why has God unccountable times in his word kept on telling us, his people that we should not defile his holy day, most of the times that God severelly punished Israel was because they were breaking his commandments by either worshiping other gods or defiling his day.
Jesus said that we came to do the will of the Father, not to nulify or change anything.

Everytime that is mentioned in the Gospels the day that Jesus preached in the synagogues, it was always on the Sabbath. The apostle Paul, resoned with people about the scriptures on the Sabbath.

I am looking for a way to follow the example of Christ, nothing more.

One fact remain,

-In Malachi 3:6 God says, " For I am the Lord, I do not change".

-In James 1:17, "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning".

-Matthew 19:16-17, When the rich man came to ask Jesus about what he should do to have eternal life, Jesus replied, "if you want to enter into eternal life, keep the commandments".

I know that we can go on with this for a long time. The fact remains that, through Jesus example and the example of the Apostles, I should Keep the Sabbath holy.

when God gave us the Sabbath, he did not intended it to be a burden to us. when we understand that the Sabbath is a day set aside for God and to God, and in that day I should forget about everything else and remember that God is my Creator and my Provider.

I have a web link that I read and thought it was very helpful. Have a look.....

http://www.ceremoniallaw.com/

God bless us all and I hope that the life of Jesus Christ may guide us to eternal life.

Your brother in Christ, Carl

Hi brother Phillip, thank you again for your message.

I keep asking people to comment on the texts that I wrote in my previous messages and so far a have not received any comments of that.

Please Phillip, could you comment on those verses?

you wrote.

I don't have to keep any Law, by the Christ in me and by His fulfillment we are the Law. The Sabbath is a Law and we need not observe it as the old covenant anymore for we are in the New Covenant in Christ Jesus our Lord our Life and even our Sabbath. Praise God

If I do not have to observe any law, how do I know that I have sinned? what are the commandments that Jesus is talking about when he said:" if you love me, you keep my commandments".

I have put a web link in my previously message. please have a look and let me know what you think.

God bless us all.

When God led the children of Israel out of Egyptian bondage, He delivered to them in fiery majesty the Ten Commandments. This Holy law was spoken by God, written by God, recorded on tables of stone, and is of eternal duration. At the same time the ceremonial law, of temporary usage, was also delivered to the children of Israel. This law dealt with the ceremonial rites of the Jewish sanctuary service, and concerned itself with a system of religion that passed away at the cross. Large sections of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy describe in detail this temporary ceremonial law. This ceremonial law can easily be identified in the Scriptures. It talks about circumcision (a religious Jewish rite), sacrifices, offerings, purifications, holy days, and other rites associated with the Hebrew sanctuary service.

God's Word speaks of two great Laws. Law Number 1 is the Law of God (the Ten Commandments, or Two tablets of the Testimony,) also known as the Moral law and the Decalogue. Law Number 2 is the Law of Moses (the “Book of the Law,” or “Book of the Covenant”), also known as the Mosaic Law, the Ordinances and the Ceremonial Law. Is there a relationship between the Ten Commandments and the Ceremonial law? Absolutely. If an Israelite sinned, he broke Law Number 1, the Moral Law of the Ten Commandments. He then had to bring his offering according to Law Number 2, the Sacrificial Law to receive forgiveness. This is the relationship between these two laws. Law Number 1 defines sin, as sin is the transgression of the Moral Law, the Ten Commandments (1 John 3:4). Law Number 2 defined sacrifices, the Mosaic Law, the Ceremonial Law or Ordinances which was the remedy for sin.

If the Israelite sinned, he broke the first law. To make atonement for his sin he had to obey the second law. As can be clearly seen, here are two very distinct laws of which this fact is unmistakable. Jesus Christ permanently took the place of Law Number 2 when He cried out ”It is finished” and bowed His head and died. When the unseen hand tore the temple curtain from top to bottom (Matthew 27:51), this signified that this ceremonial law system was once and for all time nailed to the cross.

While the word ceremonial is spoken frequently of in scripture the term Ceremonial Law is not. In the King James Bible, it is normally translated to ordinances which Strong’s dictionary translates to as being a ceremonial law or law of ordinances. As it was a system of commandments given by God to Israel, there can be no doubt that it was a law that involved ceremonies so it will often be called the Ceremonial Law.

The ceremonial law was for Israel alone as the Gospel did not go to the Gentiles for 3.5 years after Jesus died on the cross. The perfect sacrifice of Jesus ended this whole sacrificial system once and for all, thankfully giving us no requirement to obey this law of bondage which pointed forward to the true sacrifice that saves us from our Sins, which is transgression of the Moral law, the Ten Commandments of love. When we sin now, we genuinely repent and through God’s Grace and faith in Jesus, we are forgiven.

Passages of confusion with the Ceremonial law
Many people believe that Colossians 2:16, Galatians 4:10 and Romans 14:5 are referring to the Seventh day Sabbath and even some believe they refer to the Ten Commandments and not the ceremonial law. What is the real truth? Since there is so much confusion in this area, these passages will be our main focus.

The Ceremonial law Holy days and feasts
Before considering Colossians 2:16, Galatians 4:10 and Romans 14:5, getting some insight into the various feasts, holy days and Sabbaths will give us a much better understanding of the ceremonial law and why Paul referred to it as bondage. Leviticus chapter 23 is the simplest and shortest way of covering these feasts and sabbaths so we will start there and then move onto Colossians 2:16 and the other passages.

To fully understand the purpose of the ceremonial law, one must really understand the principle of type and antitype. The sequence of days observed for the feasts as shown in scripture is the “type.” This sequence of days is symbolic of what was to come in the future and for its fulfilment which is the “antitype.” The type and antitype WILL and MUST therefore always match precisely.

Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; you shall do no work therein: it is the SABBATH of the LORD in all your dwellings.

The above verse refers to the fourth Commandment, i.e. Gods Sabbath. It is the “Sabbath of the Lord” and is part of the great eternal law of love. Notice how it is listed separately from the other “feasts of the Lord.” Note also how it is a Holy convocation, that is, the Sabbath is a day intended for fellow shipping with other Christians and quality Holy time with our Creator. This is NOT part of the ceremonial law.

The seventh day sabbath is a memorial of creation that God established at creation. Although it was celebrated as a feast day, it is not a day that originated with the Jews, it preceded them. When one of the feast days fell on the seventh day Sabbath it was referred to as a high Sabbath day (John 19:31).

Leviticus 23:4-5 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which you shall proclaim in their seasons. 5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover.

This part of the ceremonial law was a shadow of Jesus crucifixion and is called “Passover or Pesach.” These and all the following verses in Leviticus chapter 23 are NOT part of God’s eternal Ten Commandment law of love. As verse four says, “these are the many feasts of the Lord” that are not a law of love and were temporary as they represented the work that Christ would do at the cross through his death and resurrection. Love however is not temporary and will never be nailed to any cross.

The type was the Passover in Egypt where the blood of the lamb was smeared on the door posts. Jesus and the disciples ate the Passover meal (Matthew 26:18-20) of unleavened bread and wine in the early hours of this day (Exodus 12:18), which would have been our Thursday evening (the biblical day begins and ends at sunset). Jesus was crucified the afternoon of the 14th (Friday) at the time the Paschal lambs were being slain (Exodus 12:6). Passover is a shadow or type of the sacrifice of Jesus which is the antitype, the lamb of God, at the cross (1 Corinthians 5:7).

Leviticus 23:6-8 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days you must eat unleavened bread. 7 In the first day you shall have an holy convocation: you shall do no servile work therein. 8 But you shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: you shall do no servile work therein.

This part of the ceremonial law was a shadow of the time Jesus spent in the tomb on the seventh day Sabbath and is called the “Feast of Unleavened Bread.”

The Feast of Unleavened Bread was a type of the sinless nature of Jesus releasing us from the bondage of sin (if we have faith in His atoning death). Jesus is the sinless bread of life (John 6:32, 48-51) and leavened bread represented the corruption of sin in one’s life that Jesus overcomes (1 Corinthians 5:8). Putting away the sin in your life (leavened bread) and replacing it by accepting sinless Jesus Christ (unleavened bread) in its place is the Gospel Message symbolized in the Passover meal known today as the Lord's Supper or Communion. You participate in the Lord's Supper to remember the sacrifice that Jesus made for you at the cross (Luke 22:19). This was the time of year of the latter rain (March/April). On this day Israel began to eat from the old corn and the manna ended the following day (Joshua 5:11).

Leviticus 23:9-14 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying, 10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When you be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then you shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. 12 And you shall offer that day when you wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD. 13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin. 14 And you shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that you have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings.

This part of the ceremonial law was a shadow of Jesus' resurrection from the tomb and is called "First Fruits." Note the meat offering and drink offering that Paul refers to at the start of the verse in Colossians 2:16 that we will discuss later. The table below gives clarity to this and the previously discussed feasts.

This was the day of first sheaf waving (type), the first fruit of the barley harvest. The antitype was Resurrection Sunday which also occurred on 16 Nisan. Jesus was the first fruits of the resurrection, (1 Corinthians 15:20, 23, 2 Timothy 2:6-8), the antitype. It is important to note that it was not a day of convocation (Not a Sabbath) to the Jews, so there is no reason for it to be a Sabbath in antitype (post-resurrection) to Christians. This is because the festival Sabbaths were not just commemorative in nature but also prophetic, pointing to future Holy events as fulfilments. To suggest a new Sunday holy day was instituted on resurrection day, is to say the festival calendar appointed by God was in error since it omits a weekly 1st day observance. In Jewish Tradition, the period called the Omer begins on 16 Nisan and extends for 50 days to Pentecost or Shavuot. Manna ceased to fall on this day (Joshua 5:12).

Leviticus 23:15-21 And you shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that you brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: 16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall you number fifty days; and you shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD. 17 You shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD. 18 And you shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the LORD, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the LORD. 19 Then you shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings. 20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the LORD, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the LORD for the priest. 21 And you shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: you shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations.

This was a shadow of Pentecost and is called the “Feast of Weeks or Shavuot.” Note for the second time the meat offering and drink offering that Paul refers to at the start of the verse in Colossians 2:16.

This feast was also a shadow or type because fifty days after the resurrection there was the first outpouring of the Holy Spirit that resulted in three thousand souls being added to the church in one day (Acts 2:41). This outpouring of the Holy Spirit is also known as the early rain (Antitype). There will also be a latter rain, the greater outpouring of the Holy Spirit near the end of time (Joel 2:23, Zechariah 10:1, James 5:7) for the proclamation of the three angels messages (Revelation 14).

Leviticus 23:23-25 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying, 24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall you have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. 25 You shall do no servile work therein: but you shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

This is the Day of Judgment and the Jewish New Year and is called “Trumpets or Rosh Ha-Shanah.”

This was an announcement to Israel of impending judgment which occurred on the Day of Atonement nine days later. The antitype of Trumpets was the worldwide proclamation of the second coming in 1843, during the “Great Awakening” revival which was based on the 2300 days prophecy in Daniel 8:14 which began in 457 B.C. and ended in 1844. This was mistakenly interpreted by many as the time of the second coming and end of the world in 1844, when in fact it was the cleansing of the heavenly sanctuary.

Leviticus 23:26-32 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying, 27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and you shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD. 28 And you shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God. 29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people. 30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people. 31 You shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and you shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall you celebrate your sabbath.

This very important part of the ceremonial law is called the “Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur.”

This was the Holiest day of the year and signified a cleansing of sins and reconciliation with God (Judgment day). The people were to afflict their souls and fast. On this day only, the High Priest entered the Holy of Holies to atone for the sins of the people (Leviticus 16). This was a shadow or type of Jesus carrying out His role as our High Priest (Hebrews 9) and entering the Holy of Holies in the heavenly sanctuary when he began the investigative judgment at the end of the 2300 days of Daniel 8:14. This was the beginning of the antitype or fulfilment of the Day of Atonement which is still underway in heaven today. Many do not understand this investigative judgment and so they condemn it. What they fail to realize in so doing is that they take away the purpose and fulfilment of this day and hence remove the antitype and the whole Old Testament purpose of this Holy day and what it pointed forward to. Jesus is now our High Priest and fulfilment here. This judgment begins with the righteous dead and will end with the righteous living. At the end of this period of judgment, probation for humanity will have closed, and the 7 plagues of God will then fall on the wicked. Soon after will be the second coming to gather the righteous to join the kingdom of God in heaven for a 1000 years. The Jubilee year begins on this day (Leviticus 25:9).

Leviticus 23:33-44 And the LORD spoke unto Moses, saying, 34 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD. 35 On the first day shall be an holy convocation: you shall do no servile work therein. 36 Seven days you shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and you shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and you shall do no servile work therein. 37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: 38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which you give unto the LORD. 39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when you have gathered in the fruit of the land, you shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath. 40 And you shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and you shall rejoice before the LORD your God seven days. 41 And you shall keep it a feast unto the LORD seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations: you shall celebrate it in the seventh month. 42 You shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: 43 That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God. 44 And Moses declared unto the children of Israel the feasts of the LORD.

This final one is called the “Feast of Tabernacles or Sukkoth.” Note once again the meat offering and drink offering that Paul refers to at the start of the verse in Colossians 2:16 which we will cover later on.

For seven days the people moved out of their homes and lived in temporary shelters called “Sukkah” as a reminder of their wanderings in the desert for forty years. The branches cut from palm, willow and other trees were to be waved in celebration to the Lord during the first seven days of the feast (Leviticus 23:40). This final feast of the year is a celebration of ingathering at the end of the harvest (Exodus 23:16) and is a time of rejoicing and fellowship. It symbolizes the gathering or harvest of God's people who leave earth for the marriage supper of the Lamb to be celebrated in heaven after the second coming of Jesus. This begins the millennium. The following table gives an overview of all these feasts just described.

The Ceremonial law and Colossians 2:16
Colossians 2:16 is one of the main areas of misunderstanding when it comes to understanding the ordinances of the ceremonial law, so we will cover this verse first followed by Galatians 4:9-10 and Romans 14:5, which are all related to the ceremonial law and what Paul is explaining in Colossians 2:16.

In Colossians 2:16 it reads “Let no man therefore judge you in meat (offering), or in drink (offering), or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath days:” and so the argument is the fourth Commandment was deleted from stone. What was done away with here was called the ordinances (Ceremonial Law). This is clearly seen by noting what Paul said two verses earlier. Colossians 2:14 states, “blotting out the handwriting (has to be Moses handwriting) of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross.” Paul then goes on to say, so “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:“ Luke 1:6 KJV shows that the ordinances and the Ten Commandments are two totally different things. It states, “And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.” It was the ordinances that were nailed to the cross “not one jot or one tittle” of any of the Ten Commandments. The major differences between the Ten Commandments and the ordinances in the ceremonial law are that the Ten Commandments were written by God’s finger, were written in stone and were placed inside the Ark of the covenant and it is a law of love which is eternal as love is eternal as God is and is why we were created. The ordinances were in the Moses handwriting, were written in a book and were placed on the outside of the Ark of the Covenant and it is NOT a law of love and was temporary. The One great and perfect Sacrifice was offered that Friday afternoon, when the true Passover Lamb bowed His head and died. When He cried out, “It is finished”, the old ceremonial law that pointed people to His sacrificial death was forever nailed to the cross.

The Ceremonial law and God’s Sabbath
Does the phrase “sabbath days” in Colossians 2:16 refer to the Lord’s Sabbath? Absolutely not. Firstly, the word “sabbaths” is definitely plural here and as we have seen, there were several sabbaths in the ordinances of the ceremonial law, and secondly, everything in verse 16 did belong purely and only to the ordinances which Paul also specifically tells us is in verse 14. Studying the table below will give clarity between the ceremonial sabbaths mentioned in Colossians 2:16 and the Sabbath of the Lord.

Sabbath of the Lord Ceremonial Sabbaths
Spoken by God personally - (Exodus 20:1, 8-11) Spoken by Moses - (Exodus 24:3)
Written in stone by God Himself - (Exodus 31:18) Written by Moses hand on paper - (Exodus 24:4)
Placed inside the Ark of the covenant - (Deu 10:5) Stored on the outside of the Ark - (Deu 31:26)
Breaking the Sabbath is sin - (1 John 3:4) These were kept because of sin - (See Leviticus)
It is a law of love - (Mat 22:35-40, Isaiah 58:13-14) They were not love - (Colossians 2:14, Gal 4:9-10)
It is a law of liberty (freedom) - (James 1:25, 2:10-12) They were bondage - (Galatians 4:9-10, Col 2:14)
Was established before sin - (Genesis 2:1-3) Were established after sin - (Exodus 20:24)
Was made at creation - (Genesis 2:1-3) Were made after Sinai - (Exodus 20:24)
The Sabbath is for everyone - (Mark 2:27) Only for the children of Israel & Jews - (Read Bible)
God calls it MY sabbath - (Exodus 31:13, Eze 20:20) God calls it HER Sabbaths - (Hosea 2:11, Lam 1:7)
The Sabbath is eternal - (Psa 111:7-8, Isa 66:22-23) Were nailed to the cross - (Col 2:14, Eph 2:15)

Consider the following three questions:
1) Why didn’t God put His Sabbath with all the ceremonial sabbaths in Moses hand writing if it was to end at the cross?
2) Why didn't God put His Sabbath with the Jewish ceremonial sabbaths that ended at the cross, if His Sabbath was only for the Jews?
3) Why would our omniscient (all knowing) God put His Sabbath in His eternal law of love if it’s not eternal or not part of His law of love?

Does Colossians 2:16 refer totally to the Ceremonial law?
Note that every single part of the verses in Colossians 2:14-17 actually does refer to the ceremonial law. Unfortunately, most modern Bible translations have translated the word meat in verse sixteen incorrectly and most non Jews get this wrong including some of the best theologians. Ask some Jews that have a good understanding of Hebrew. The King James Bible is one of the few translations that does translate these words correctly and is therefore recommended in these studies. So much gets lost at times when translators don’t have a good understanding of Jewish culture and terminology and the ceremonial system. To be referring to clean or unclean foods here would be totally out of context for the passage, but when it is kept in context, every single point here refers to the various feasts and festivals and the sacrificial sanctuary system. Further clarification can be given here from Hebrews. Note that the context of this passage below is undoubtedly the sanctuary service in regards to sacrifices and offerings, of which Christ became the final perfect sacrifice for us.

Paul speaks of meat and drink offerings and carnal ordinances which were imposed until the time of reformation, being Jesus Christ who obtained eternal redemption for us and brought an end to the sacrifices prescribed by the ordinances of the ceremonial law once and for all. Several verses have been given here so that the context of the passage can be seen. Hebrews 9:6-12 “Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God. 7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people: 8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing: 9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; 10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. 11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building; 12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.”

As in Colossians 2:16, nowhere in this passage are clean and unclean foods referred to and nowhere in the Bible where clean and unclean foods are discussed, are there issues of unclean drinks. There is talk of unclean containers and strong drink but never unclean drinks and this clearly still would not fit into the context of the passage here. What is spoken of here in both Colossians and Hebrews are references to meat and drink offerings that were part of the sanctuary service that are in the ordinances of the ceremonial law which had meat and drink offerings. This is all that can possibly be referred to and when done so it fits absolutely perfectly into the context of both passages as it remains totally in context with the sanctuary service.

So lets discuss Colossians 2:16 and Colossians 2:14, 17 again to see if everything does actually refer to the ceremonial law by the fact that the context of the passage remains the same throughout. “Blotting out the handwriting”, the ceremonial law was written in Moses handwriting. “Ordinances”, Strong’s dictionary also directly translates this word to ceremonial law, “that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way”, the ceremonial law is now against us and contrary to us, as Christ has become that One and perfect sacrifice for us. “Nailing it to his cross”, and of course now that Christ has become that perfect sacrifice for us, no longer are meat and drink offerings and animal sacrifices and all associated Holy days necessary, so the ceremonial law was nailed to the cross. Moving onto verse sixteen, “Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink”, and as we have now seen were part of the ceremonial law. “Or in respect of an holyday”, these Holy days included such days as Passover, Feast of Weeks and many others as we saw earlier in this document. “Or of the new moon”, new moon celebrations were also part of the ordinances. “Or of the sabbath days”, Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, Feast of Weeks, Day of Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles and many others were all sabbath days. When referred to in plural and the context of the passage is the ceremonial law, then the sabbaths referred to can be nothing else but that. Verse seventeen goes on to say, “Which are a shadow of things to come.” Again, as we have already seen, these sabbaths were called a shadow because Passover was a shadow of the crucifixion and Feast of Weeks was a shadow of Pentecost etc. These Old Testament feasts and holy days were shadows of what was to come and once those things had come and gone then the shadows disappeared. Here is one verse from Leviticus that refers to such feasts and Holy days, which involves meat and drink, that is meat and drink offerings that Paul is referring to in Colossians 2:16. Leviticus 23:37 “These are the feasts of the LORD, which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day.”

Note the following verses and from the table below how similar Colossians 2:16 and Ezekiel 45:17 are.

Colossians 2:16 “Let no man therefore judge you in meat [offerings], or in drink [offerings], or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:”
Ezekiel 45:17 “And it shall be the prince's part to give burnt offerings, and meat offerings, and drink offerings, in the feasts, [holydays] and in the new moons, and in the sabbaths, in all solemnities of the house of Israel: he shall prepare the sin offering, and the meat offering, and the burnt offering, and the peace offerings, to make reconciliation for the house of Israel.”

Did you note how these meat and drink offerings offerings and feasts etc, were a sin offering, to make reconciliation for breaking God’s Ten Commandment law? This is what Israel had to do to make atonement for sin, which is the breaking of God’s Ten Commandments which includes the Seventh Day Sabbath.

Colossians 2:16 Ezekiel 45:17
meat, or in drink, meat offerings, and drink offerings,
KJV of an holyday, NKJV regarding a festival
(Strong’s Dictionary; a festival: - feast, holyday.) in the feasts,
or of the new moon and in the new moons,
or of the Sabbath days: and in the sabbaths,

Since Colossians 2:14 says “handwriting of ordinances” which Moses wrote in a book. It should make perfect sense to all of us that if God intended for the Sabbath of the Lord to be temporary, He would have had Moses put it in his own handwriting along with the rest of the ordinances that included all the other temporary Sabbaths that were nailed to the cross. The fact is, God did not include the Sabbath that He blessed and sanctified at the beginning of creation and wrote in stone with His own finger along with the other nine commandments and placed inside the original Ark of the Covenant that is in heaven right now and will be for all time. The only logical reason there could be for this with God being omniscience (all knowing) is He obviously did not intend on changing or abolishing it which scripture supports.

Read what “Albert Barnes Notes on the Bible” has to say on Colossians 2:16 in regards to Sabbath days, “Colossians 2:16 - Or of the Sabbath days - Greek, “of the Sabbaths.” The word Sabbath in the Old Testament is applied not only to the seventh day, but to all the days of holy rest that were observed by the Hebrews, and particularly to the beginning and close of their great festivals. There is, doubtless, reference to those days in this place, since the word is used in the plural number, and the apostle does not refer particularly to the Sabbath properly so called. There is no evidence from this passage that he would teach that there was no obligation to observe any holy time, for there is not the slightest reason to believe that he meant to teach that one of the ten commandments had ceased to be binding on mankind. If he had used the word in the singular number - “the Sabbath,” it would then, of course, have been clear that he meant to teach that that commandment had ceased to be binding, and that a Sabbath was no longer to be observed. But the use of the term in the plural number, and the connection, show that he had his eye on the great number of days which were observed by the Hebrews as festivals, as a part of their ceremonial and typical law, and not to the moral law, or the Ten Commandments. No part of the moral law - no one of the ten commandments could be spoken of as “a shadow of good things to come.” These commandments are, from the nature of moral law, of perpetual and universal obligation.”

And this what Adam Clarke’s Commentary on the Bible has top say on Colossians 2:16, “Colossians 2:16 - Let no man - judge you in meat, or in drink - The apostle speaks here in reference to some particulars of the hand-writing of ordinances, which had been taken away, and the necessity of observing certain holydays or festivals, such as the new moons and particular sabbaths, or those which should be observed with more than ordinary solemnity; all these had been taken out of the way and nailed to the cross, and were no longer of moral obligation. There is no intimation here that the Sabbath was done away, or that its moral use was superseded, by the introduction of Christianity. I have shown elsewhere that, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, is a command of perpetual obligation, and can never be superseded but by the final termination of time. As it is a type of that rest which remains for the people of God, of an eternity of bliss, it must continue in full force till that eternity arrives; for no type ever ceases till the antitype be come. Besides, it is not clear that the apostle refers at all to the Sabbath in this place, whether Jewish or Christian; his σαββατων, of sabbaths or weeks, most probably refers to their feasts of weeks, of which much has been said in the notes on the Pentateuch.”

The Ceremonial law and Galatians 4:10
These various Holy days and festivals involved DAYS that took place at various TIMES of the year as well as YEARLY Holy days such as the Day of Atonement and MONTHLY like the New Moon celebrations already discussed. As these were a shadow of things to come and those things have past and the shadows are now gone, to still observe these days would be putting us back into unnecessary bondage. This is what Paul is talking about in Galatians 4:9-10 which says, “But now, after that you have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn you again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto you desire again to be in bondage? 10 You observe DAYS, and MONTHS, and TIMES, and YEARS.” Paul is obviously and definitely not saying you can ignore anything that is a day, month or year in the Bible. He is referring to something that includes all of these things, which is and can only be the ceremonial law.

Galatians 4:9 and Galatians 4:10 is talking about bondage and servitude and the ordinances and ceremonial law was just that, a law of servitude and bondage where they had to year after year observe all the feasts at various times, days, months and years. Galatians 4:3 “Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:” Paul continues telling the Galatians that they are no longer servants in Galatians 4:7 “Wherefore you are no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.” God’s Ten Commandments on the other hand are a law of liberty. James 1:25 “But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.” And for further clarity James 2:11-12 reads, “For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if you commit no adultery, yet if you kill, you are become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak you, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.” The Bible does not contradict itself by one moment calling the Ten Commandments a law of servitude and bondage and then call it a perfect law of liberty or freedom the next. Freedom and bondage are exact opposites. The Ten Commandments show us how to love God and man and could never be referred to as bondage or servitude. Loving God for my family is a natural occurrence and pleasure as it should be for all Christians. If we keep all of these points in mind when studying the Bible, it will help us see more clearly what law is being spoken of. We should also remember to check the context of the entire chapter and if necessary other related chapters for a complete picture.

Romans 14:5 and the Ceremonial law
Having now adequately covered Colossians 2:16 and Galatians 4:9-10, let’s now conclude with the final scripture. The scripture concerned, is mainly Romans 14:5, but so the context of the passage can be seen, I have given the surrounding verses also. Romans 14:1-6, “Him that is weak in the faith receive you, but not to doubtful disputations. 2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. 3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God has received him. 4 Who are you that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yes, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. 5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he does not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.”

It becomes clear from Romans 14 and 15, that several misunderstandings existed between Jewish and Gentile Christians in relation to certain customs which were sacredly observed by one but disregarded by the other. The primary subject of dispute was concerning meats and days. The converted Jew retaining respect for the law of Moses abstained from certain meats and observed ceremonial days while the converted Gentile understood that Christianity put him under no such obligation or regard to these ordinances. It also appears that mutual and heartless judgments existed among them and that brotherly love and reciprocal tolerance did not always prevail. Paul exhorts that in such things no longer essential to Christianity, that even though both parties had a different way of thinking they might and probably do still have an honest and serious regard for God. Paul further explains they should not therefore let different sentiments hinder Christian fellowship and love, but they should mutually refrain and withhold and make allowance for each other and especially not carry their Gospel liberty so far as to prejudice a weak brother or a Jewish Christian. Select this link for more detail on Romans 14:5 by Bible commentary.

When reading the Bible and the passage is about a law of bondage, foods and days and especially when associated with the sanctuary service, then we must realize the ceremonial law and not the Ten Commandments are being referred to. When the Ten Commandments are being referenced, you can always tell as the context of the passage will always be centred around love, as that is what the Ten Commandments are. The Bible tells us in 1 John 4:8 “He that loves not, knows not God; for God Is Love.“ As God is eternal, then Love also must be eternal. 1 John 4:16 says, “And we have known and believed the love that God has to us. God is love; and he that dwells in love dwells in God, and God in him.“ Love is inseparable from God and the true Christian, as God is Love and Love is God. We were created in Love and for Love and no other reason. This is why the Ten Commandments are eternal and unchanging, as God changes not, and love changes not, and the guidelines on loving God and man also changes not. Jesus said in Matthew 5:17 that He did not come to destroy the law and that till heaven and earth pass, not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law. He also warned against not teaching the law and said great is he that does teach and uphold the law. Jesus then raises the bar even higher and tells us that if we commit the sin in our mind, we are guilty as verse 27 shows. Jesus is in no way implying the Ten Commandments are going to be abolished or change, but to the contrary, Jesus shows they are now being magnified. See Isaiah 45:21. To imply that Colossians 2:16, Galatians 4:10 or Romans 14:5 refer to the Ten Commandments puts them out of context and they then also fail to line up with other scripture throughout the Bible as well as seriously contradicting other scriptures.

For more info, select this link see Bible translations charts on Colossians 2:14 and Colossians 2:16 and the issue of plurality on the word Sabbaths or this link if you would like to read some public opinions on Colossians 2:16. Some groups say the ceremonial law feasts are still to be observed. Read this document on Colossians 2:16 for the real truth. Use your browser back button to return from these sites.

The Ten Commandments and the Ceremonial law compared
The Moral Law
(The Ten Commandments) The Ceremonial Law
(A temporary Jewish law)
1. Spoken by God Himself. Exodus 20:1,22. 1. Spoken by Moses. Exodus 24:3.
2. Was written by God. Exodus 31:18; Exodus 32:16. 2. Written by Moses. Exodus 24:4; Deuteronomy 31:9.
3. On stones. Exodus 31:18. 3. In a book. Exodus 24:3, 7; Deuteronomy 31:24.
4. Handed by God its writer, to Moses. Exodus 31:18. 4. Handed by Moses, its writer to Levites. Deuteronomy 31:25, 26.
5. Deposited by Moses “in the ark”. Deuteronomy 10:5. 5. Deposited by the Levites “by the side of the ark”. Deuteronomy 31:26, ARV.
6. Deals with moral precepts. Exodus 20:3-17. 6. Deals with ceremonial, ritual matters. (See parts of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy).
7. Reveals sin. Romans 7:7. 7. Prescribes offerings for sins. (See book of Leviticus).
8. Breaking of “the law” is “sin”. 1 John 3:4. 8. No sin in breaking the ceremonial law, for now “abolished”. Ephesians 2:15. (Where no law is, there is no transgression. Romans 4:15.)
9. Should “keep the whole law”. James 2:10. 9. Apostles gave “no such commandment” to “keep the ceremonial law”. Acts 15:24.
10. Because we “shall be judged” by this law. James 2:12 10. Not to be judged by the ceremonial law. Colossians 2:16.
11. The Christian who keeps this law is “blessed in his deed”. James 1:25. 11. The Christian who keeps the ceremonial law is not blessed. (See for example, Galatians 5:1-6).
12. “The perfect law of liberty”. James 1:25 (Cf. James 2:12). 12. The Christian who keeps the ceremonial law loses his liberty. Galatians 5:1, 3.
13. Paul said, “I delight in the law of God”. Romans 7:22 (Cf. verse 7). 13. Paul called the ceremonial law a “yoke of bondage”. Galatians 5:1; Galatians 4:3, 9 (See Acts 15:10).
14. Established by faith in Christ. Romans 3:31. 14. Abolished by Christ. Ephesians 2:15.
15. Christ was to “magnify the law and make it honorable”. Isaiah 42:21. 15. Blotted “out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us”. Colossians 2:14.

The Ten Commandments and Gods character compared
Notice how God’s moral law, that is, the Ten Commandments, is a reflection of God’s holy character. To say the Ten Commandments are no longer applicable is an attack on love, God and His Holy character.

God’s Ten Commandments equals God’s Holy Character
» Romans 16:26: God is Eternal
» Psalms 111:7-8: The law is Eternal » Luke 18:19: God is Good
» Romans 7:12: The law is Good
» John 4:24: God is Spiritual
» Romans 7:14: The law is Spiritual » Deuteronomy 32:4: God is Just
» Romans 7:12: The law is Just
» Psalms 145:17: God is Righteous
» Psalms 119:172: The law is Righteous » 1 John 3:3: God is Pure
» Psalms 19:8: The law is Pure
» Matthew 5:48: God is Perfect
» Psalms 19:7: The law is Perfect » I John 4:8: God is Love
» Romans 13:10: The law is Love
» I John 1:5: God is Light
» Proverbs 6:23: The law is Light » Psalms 48:1: God is Great
» Hosea 8:12: The law is Great
» Deuteronomy 32:4: God is Truth
» Psalms 119:142: The law is Truth » Isaiah 5:16: God is Holy
» Romans 7:12: The law is Holy

Is your Sabbath on Saturday or Sunday? I choose to celebrate the Sabbath every day. I am in Christ and He is in me, that makes Him my rest and my Sabbath. I choose to go to church on Sunday and not forsake the assembling of ourselves for His Bodies sake.

I choose to observe the Sabbath every day too, however I dont know how you can then say that you choose to go "to church" on Sunday as to not forsake the assembling...

Why do you not go all the way and be the Church, and seek out brethren to live in true New Testament fellowship. Not going "to church" on Sunday is not forsaking the assembly... I believe that is acutally often the very opposite, that we forsake the assembly by following man made traditions and "going to church" on Sunday rather then striving for true fellowship.

In Christ - Jim

If you say Christ nailed keeping the sabbath to the Cross, then you have to also say he nailed "thou shalt not kill to the cross", you would have to also say he nailed " I am the LORD thy God....ye shall have no other God's besides me to the cross as well", you would have to say he also nailed to the Cross " Honour thy Father and Mother, that thy days may be long upon the earth..."

Acutally Christ and the whole NT expound on the true reason and meaning of these commands just as the Sabbath... if you so much as hate your brother you are a murderer and are in violation of the law.

It is so sad that we would move back towards the letter of law rather then complete, sold out, 100%, Spirit filled, New Testament Chrsitianity EVERYDAY. (I know this will not make much sense to those who define there christian experience by going to a building once or twice a week)

In the old cov we temple worshipped one day a week, in the new cov we do this EVERY day , because we are radical new creatures in Christ Jesus and live every day not for this world but for His kingdom. Anything less is not Christianity, no matter how cleverly packaged it is.

In Christ -Jim

as it it says in hebrews 4 let us enter into that rest...

How can we keep one day Holy only if every day is a Sabbath and is Holy unto the Lord?

Colossians 2:16 NIV
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

the NIV is NOT the Word of God!!

Thank you for playing your cards upfront friend... I pray you will find true freedom in Christ. The kingdom of God is not in word but in power. I will continue to live the radical new testament chrsitian life that Christ bought for me with His blood, walking with a clean heart before God. I will not again be yoked to that which was only a forshadow (despite how you might try to explain it away).

PS - The NIV and KJV both say the same things, that Christ died to set us free from the bondage your are promoting.

In Him - Jim

Hi Phillip,

I think I have asked you before but will try again.

Can you comment on these texts.

---First text is in Isaiah 56. Keep in mind that the text is talking about salvation for the Gentiles. I think that God is promising something really special to those who keep the Sabbath or am I wrong?

---Second text is found in Isaiah 66 22-23.

Keep in mind the part that says," and all flesh".

It seems to me that establishes the fact that it is not just for Israel, Although the apostle Paul says that we are all part of the same tree in Romans 11 09-36.

----The Third text is in Mark 15 33-47, 16 01-08,
Keep in mind that these people were Christ's Followers and pay attention to the first verse of chapter 16.

----The Last text is found in Matthew 24 15-28,
pay attention to verse 20. I think that there is no one, not one of us, that is doing what Jesus asked us to do in this verse. I can understand why Jesus would mention "pregnant mothers", and also that their "flight should not be in the winter or on the Sabbath " because it is bad news if we have to run away during this time. But he also asked us to pray so that we would not have to run away on the Sabbath. What would be the purpose of this if not to show us that this day - the Sabbath - is a special day and we should keep it holy?????

any comment will be apreciated...

Jayme

the Sabbath - is a special day and we should keep it holy?????

If we do not keep every day Holy, I do not beleive we are Christians... and there is no room for one day to be "super" Holier then others. This is like our babylonian church system that has huge christmas and easter presentations because they are such "important days"...

if we are not walking in the resurection power of Christ, in holiness and in rest everyday and need a special day to celebrate these things we need to examine ourselves.

Sir you may grasp at scripture to try and find a Holy day but I have a Holy Christ whom I am blessed to walk with daily, and that is more then enough for me.

In His love - Jim

I've just happed upon this verse and thought it may be of interest to you chaps.

Ezekiel 20:12 NASB
Also, I gave them My sabbaths to be a sign between Me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.

So, to bring this into the New Testament, and accepting all that is said by the writer of Hebrews about the connection between unbelief and not entering into His rest:

Jude 1
... To those who are called, [u]sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:[/u]

1 Cor 1:2
To the church of God which is at Corinth, [u]to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus[/u], called saints, ...

Ephesians 5
Christ also loved the church [u]and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her[/u] with the washing of water by the word,

There are many more verses which make the same claim.

Sorry if these thoughts have already been said. Now, back to you guys.

I would encourage you all to visit this website: http://www.exadventist.com

the [b]Seventh Day Adventist[/b] movement is a false system of beliefs surrounded by much controversies and false prophecies by a women named: Ellen G. White.

---

THE SABBATH & SUNDAY
by Pastor J. Mark Martin

WHEN THE COUNSEL OF ACTS 15 CONVENED to determine what Gentile Christians must observe, SABBATH KEEPING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT. Peter exhorts the leadership of the Church not to place the Gentiles under the Law:

Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Acts 15:10-11.

The final judgment of the Jerusalem Council contains no reference to Sabbath keeping. Circumcision was discussed and deemed unnecessary (vss. 5-6; 19-20). If Sabbath keeping were to be an essential part of the New Covenant relationship with God it would have been mentioned in the discussion because it would have been an unfamiliar practice to the Gentiles. Sabbath keeping was not even discussed because it is not a requirement for New Covenant believers:

"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials; that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell." (Acts 15:28-29).

NOTICE that the Holy Spirit told them NOT to lay upon the Gentiles any greater burden than THOSE ESSENTIALS. OBVIOUSLY THE HOLY SPIRIT DID NOT THINK SABBATH KEEPING WAS AN ESSENTIAL THING ANYMORE!

The 7 post-resurrection appearances of Christ show that Jesus purposefully chose the first day of the week to meet with His disciples to encourage and exhort them. The evidence shows that five of these appearances occurred on a Sunday, the first day of the week. We do no have a record of what the actual day on which the other appearances (John 21 and Acts 1:6-10) occurred to His disciples. What we can say with accuracy is this, after Jesus' resurrection whenever He met with His disciples and the day is identified, it is NOT the Sabbath, it is the first day of the week!

1). To Mary, On the morning of the resurrection - Matthew 28:8-10; Mark 16:9; John 20:11-18

2). To two disciples going to Emmaus - Luke 24:13-33; Mark 16:12-13

3). To Simon (Peter) - Luke 24:31-35.

4). To the eleven disciples on the evening of Resurrection Sunday - Mark 16:14-18; Luke 24:36-44; John 20:19-23

5). To the Eleven disciples "Eight days later" - John 20:26-29

Pentecost happened on the first day of the week! The Church was born on the first day of the week! That doesn't make Sunday the Sabbath, it just tells you that after the resurrection of Jesus, the Sabbath is not emphasized.

When a day is mentioned in connection with the appearances of the risen Lord Jesus, it is always the first day of the week. Look at the extremely important events that occurred in the life of the first followers of Christ on the first day of the week.

1). Jesus startled them by appearing to them on the first day (John 20:19).

2). Jesus received worship from Thomas (John 20:27-28).

3). Sunday evening Jesus took bread and blessed it and broke it and gave it to His disciples evidently like He had in instituting the communion meal (Luke 22:19) and their "eyes were opened and they recognized Him" (Luke 24:31).

4). Sunday evening Jesus blessed His disciples twice saying "Peace be with you" (John 20:20; 26).

5). That same Sunday evening Jesus "...breathed on them and said, 'receive the Holy Spirit'" John 20:22.

6). On Sunday evening Jesus gave His disciples the ecclesiastical authority to proclaim forgiveness to those who believe in Him through the Gospel (John 20:23).

NOTE: Why did the Disciples meet on Sunday?

1). Because it now carried a special symbolic/anti-typical significance for them

2). Even if it didn't and was by chance, --Jesus still chose to reveal Himself to them only on Sunday, when we know what day it is. That must also hold some kind of Divine significance.

3). Jesus could have chosen to meet with His disciple on the Sabbath. This would have clearly set a New Covenant precedent. He did not chose to do this. The Sabbath was the sign of a fulfilled covenant (see Exodus 31:17 & Hebrews 8:13).

THE NINE "MORAL" COMMANDS OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS ARE REITERATED in the New Testament:

1). To worship the Lord God only (1st commandment): no less than 50 times
2). Idolatry (2nd commandment): condemned 12 times
3). Profanity (3rd commandment): condemned 4 times
4). Honoring parents (5th commandment) is taught 6 times
5). Murder (6th commandment) condemned 6 times
6). Adultery (7th commandment) condemned 12 times
7). Theft (8th commandment) condemned 4 times
8). False Witness (9th commandment) condemned 4 times
9). Covetousness (10th commandment) condemned 9 times
* see references here *

Why is it that the duty to keep the Seventh day as Sabbath is not mentioned ONCE in the New Testament?

WHEN THE NEW TESTAMENT LISTS SINS, SABBATH BREAKING IS CONSPICUOUSLY ABSENT:

In Mark 7:21-22 13 sins are listed. Jesus did not mention breaking the Sabbath.
In Romans 1:29-32 20 sins are listed and not one of them is Sabbath breaking.
In Galatians 5:19-21 a list of 15 sins are given,
In 2 Timothy 3:1-4 there's a list of 18 sins, but not once is Sabbath breaking mentioned!

WHY IS IT THAT NOWHERE IN THE NEW TESTAMENT IS IT TAUGHT THAT THE FOURTH COMMANDMENT MUST BE OBSERVED?

-Why is it that nowhere in the New Testament is failure to keep the Sabbath day condemned as sin?

-Why is the fourth commandment itself not repeated even ONCE in the New Testament?

-If the Sabbath keeping is so important for a disciple of Christ, why was it not mentioned in His sermon on the Mount or in ANY of His teachings?

-Why didn't Jesus command Sabbath keeping?

-Why didn't any of the Apostles command Sabbath keeping?

-Why didn't the Jerusalem counsel command Sabbath keeping or condemn Sabbath breaking? (Acts 15)

Some answer that the Jews already knew about the Sabbath so it was taken for granted that they would continue to keep it, but then why were the other nine commandments reiterated? Would they not be taken for granted as well? It would also seem that with so many Gentiles coming into the Church, that if keeping the Sabbath was so important there would be instruction in the New Testament Epistles somewhere concerning it. There are instructions for them concerning morality, ethics, worship, Church order and family lifestyle. Why would something as important as Sabbath keeping be ignored? Circumcision, which predates the Law and the Sabbath commandment was an issue in the New Testament Church and is addressed repeatedly in the New Testament Epistles and by the Jerusalem Counsel.

Sabbath keepers argue that it is the example of Jesus that gives us the reason for keeping the Sabbath. "He kept the Sabbath, so I must keep the Sabbath. Jesus is my example," they say. Well this kind of reasoning is flawed because it only chooses Jesus' Sabbath keeping and rejects the rest of His Jewish lifestyle. Jesus also kept Kosher laws. He kept the Passover, Sukkot, Hanukkah, and worshipped in the temple. Are we to follow everything He did?

Galatians 4:4-5 says that Jesus lived under the Law to redeem us from the Law.

"But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons." (NIV)

JESUS WAS ALSO ACCUSED OF SABBATH BREAKING. Why, if He wanted to be our "example" in Sabbath keeping didn't He make it clear that He was not breaking the Sabbath? Instead He clearly admits to it. He also admits that His disciples were breaking the Sabbath and He defends them. Read Matthew 12:1- 14 carefully. Jesus is clearly saying that His disciples are like the priests who may work in the temple every Sabbath and be innocent of breaking the Sabbath. When Jesus says that He is "Lord of the Sabbath" He is declaring that He is above the Sabbath. He may do what He wishes on the Sabbath and therefore His disciples may do whatever they wish as well.

Apparently Jesus did break the Sabbath: "Therefore some of the Pharisees were saying, "This man is not from God, because He does not keep the Sabbath."..." John 9:15. If Jesus did not want us to understand that He was breaking the Sabbath why did He not speak against these accusations. It's because Jesus had the right and the authority to break the Sabbath because He is Lord of the Sabbath. The Sabbath does not bind Him. Think about this, if it does not bind Him, are we not "in Christ"? Why would it be any more binding upon us. (Again Read Matthew 12:1-14 carefully).

One of the issues that needs to be honestly faced is the fact that Jesus never commanded anyone to keep the Sabbath and none of His apostles ever commanded anyone to keep it either. Not once in the New Testament are we told to keep the Sabbath. Those commands to the Church are conspicuously absent from the teachings of the New Testament.

EVERY MENTION OF THE SABBATH IN THE BOOK OF ACTS without a single exception is in connection with Jewish worship on that day and not Christian celebration. Paul's evangelistic strategy was to go to the Jews first in a community and share the Gospel with them. Sabbath is the day when he knew he would find the most Jews gathering for worship. He knew he would have his best opportunity of sharing the good news of the Messiah to the Jews on Sabbath. It was not because he was meeting with a group of believing Christians. He was meeting with non-Christian Jews.

IS THE TEN COMMANDMENT LAW ETERNAL?

No, the Law is not eternal. Galatians 3:19 gives the purpose of the Law. It says: "What, then, was the purpose of he law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come."

The law was given 430 years after Abraham. "What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise." Galatians 3:17-18.

The Law had a definite beginning time (430 years after Abraham) and a definite ending time, --When the promised Seed (Christ, vs. 16) came.

Other Scriptures such as Romans 5:12-14 indicate that there can be sin in the world, even BEFORE the Law was given. "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned -- for until the Law sin was in the world; but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of Adam's offense, who is a type of Him who was to come."

CREATION & THE SABBATH: The Scriptures are very clear that the Sabbath of the fourth commandment was not given before Moses:

The Ten Commandments was not made with the fathers. Deuteronomy 5:2-3 says

"The Lord our God made a covenant with us at Horeb. The Lord did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us, with all those of us alive here today."

Nehemiah 9:13-14 says: "You came down on Mount Sinai; you spoke to them from heaven. You gave them regulations and laws that are just and right, and decrees and commands that are good. You made known to them your holy sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses." (NIV).

WAS THE SABBATH GIVEN FOR ALL MANKIND TO KEEP PERPETUALLY?

No, - Though Genesis 2:1-3 says that after the Lord had ended all His work He rested on the seventh day and blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, there is not a word about it being given to Adam and Eve as a commandment. You don't hear another word about the Sabbath in the entire book of Genesis. All fifty chapters are silent about the Sabbath.

You do not hear that the righteous Patriarchs, Abraham, Isaac, or Jacob kept the Sabbath. There is a conspicuous silence for 2,500 years after the Fall of man. It is not until after the redemption of God's people Israel out of Egypt when they are safely on the other side of the Red Sea that you read in the Book of Exodus that the Sabbath is mentioned again. (Exodus 16:22-30). Abraham was given commandments and ordinances, but the Sabbath is never mentioned as one of them.

Then the Sabbath is given to Israel and Israel alone. The Sabbath is a covenant sign between God and the nation of Israel. "And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you. 'Therefore you are to observe the sabbath, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a sabbath of complete rest, holy to the Lord; whoever does any work on the sabbath day shall surely be put to death. So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever; for in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, but on the seventh day he ceased from labor, and was refreshed." Exodus 31:12-17

Notice that the reason why the Lord links the Sabbath to creation is that He is identifying Himself to Israel as the true and living Creator God. He is separate and apart from all of the other gods of Egypt and of the Gentile world. "Keep the Sabbath, worship Me, for I AM the true, living Creator of the Universe."

Notice also that this Sabbath "SIGN" (Exodus 31:13) is between God and "the sons of Israel" (Exodus 12:15,17) and not for all of mankind.

Nehemiah 9:13-14 indicates that the Sabbath was not given to be kept by anyone until it was given to Israel in the wilderness. "You came down on Mount Sinai; you spoke to them from heaven. You gave them regulations and laws that are just and right, and decrees and commands that are good. You made known to them your holy sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses." (NIV).

DOESN'T THE BIBLE SAY THAT THE SABBATH WAS MADE FOR MAN?

"And He was saying to them, "The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath." Mark 2:27. Sabbatarians often use this verse to say that the Sabbath was made for all mankind, but the text doesn't say that. It doesn't say, "The Sabbath was made for "mankind", it says, "the Sabbath was made for man". When the Scripture is meant to be inclusive of all mankind it is clear. See Matthew 28:19; John 3:16; Acts 2:17; I Timothy 2:4; Titus 2:11. These verses clearly indicate that when God offers something to all mankind He clearly offers it to all.

The Sabbath was not offered to all the nations. It was given only to the nation of Israel. Look at Deuteronomy 5:1-15 which gives the commandments to Israel. It is clearly stated that God did not give the Sabbath or other commandments to the fathers before (see verses 2-3).

One writer has brought up the point that this text shows that the Sabbath was not a part of the "moral" Law to be kept by all mankind from the beginning, for it had to be made. It was made in Exodus 16-20. Notice also that this text does not say it was made for man from the "beginning," as was marriage (cf Matthew 19:4ff). WHICH OTHER OF THE TEN COMMANDMENTS HAD TO BE MADE? --NOT ONE! (Gerald N. Wright, Sabbatarian Concordance & Commentary, Star Bible & Tract Corp., 1977, pp. 78-79).

Wright commenting on this passage says: "The other nine [commandments] were (and are) inherently right from the beginning, reflecting God's righteous nature and being naturally a part of man's moral character, who was made in the image of God (cf Romans 2:14). Which command other than the sabbath is lower than man--subject to being set aside under certain circumstances? When, or under what circumstances, can man lawfully commit adultery? Obviously, never! Man's life is not above God's holy and moral laws. Yet even a sheep's life is more important than rigid enforcement of the sabbath (Matthew 12:10-12)!

NO "BURGER KING" SABBATHS - You can't "Have It Your Way" with the Sabbath. God specifies how it was to be kept.

-It was to be kept from sunset to sunset (Lev. 23:32)
-No burden was to be carried (Jer. 17:21)
-No fire kindled (Ex. 35:3)
-No Cooking done (Ex. 16:23)
-The penalty for doing any of these things during the Sabbath was DEATH (Numbers 15).

NO "INSPIRED" WRITER MAKES ANY DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE "MORAL" LAW & THE "CEREMONIAL" LAWS.

"(2) The Sabbath in its nature, is itself a ceremonial law: the moral law is all law which appeals to the conscience, and needs no written revelation; but as to which day to observe, or whether to observe any day at all, conscience is silent. If we are to distinguish between the moral and the ceremonial law, on the ground that one is passed, and the other still in force, then--as the Sabbath is purely ceremonial law--it is passed. But the most important point still remains. (3) I, as a Christian, obey all law that is moral in the Decalogue, not because it is in the Law, but because it is in the Gospel. Worship of God only is enjoined fifty times in the New Testament; idolatry is forbidden twelve times; profanity four times; honor of father and mother is commanded six times; adultery is forbidden twelve; theft six; false witness four; and covetousness, nine times. "The Ten Commandments," as Luther says, "do not apply to us Gentiles and Christians, but only to the Jews." So the Sabbath--except in a single passage where, classing it with the entire law, he declares it has been totally abolished. So the early Church held."

--D. M. Panton, cited in Heresies Exposed, Compiled by Irvine, pp. 164-165.

SOME SABBATARIANS CLAIM THAT THE SABBATH IS THE SEAL OF GOD

The Seal of God is NOT the Sabbath! The Bible tells us clearly that the Seal of God is the Holy Spirit indwelling the believer the moment he is saved.

Ephesians 1:13 says, "And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession--to the praise of his glory."

Ephesians 4:30 warns, "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption."

2 Corinthians 1:21-22 states "Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge."

IS A SABBATH KEEPING CHURCH THE "REMNANT" OR COMMANDMENT KEEPING CHURCH THAT IS SPOKEN OF IN REVELATION 12:17?

Rev. 12:17 says, "And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and went off to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus."

In the New Covenant, what are the "Commandments" of God? Does this mean Ten Commandments? NO! The Greek word used for the Ten Commandments is "NOMOS". That word is not used here. The word used here is "ENTELE" and means "teachings".

John clarifies this and actually tells us what the "commandments" are that we are to keep:

I John 5:1-3 says, "Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God; and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome."

These verses are often used to teach people that they must keep the Ten Commandments, especially the Sabbath. However, the Apostle John defines the "commandments" for us. In the prior chapter he defines them explicitly. "Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; and whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do the things that are pleasing in is sight. And this is His commandment, that we believe in the name of His Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as He commanded us. And the one who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him..."
I John 3:21-24a.

THE ASSERTION BY SABBATARIANS THAT AT THE COUNCIL OF LAODICEA THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH changed the Sabbath from the Seventh day to the First day is not true. The Sabbath was not changed at that Council.

What did take place at that Council was an anti-semetic move to make it illegal for a Christian to worship on Saturday. But one needs to note that there were thousands of Christians already worshiping on Sunday, the first day of the week. Many in the early Church worshipped on Sunday:

"Anti-Judaism played its part in second-century Christian polemic against Jewish Sabbath observance, but it does not follow that it motivated the introduction of Christian Sunday worship. For we have already argued that Sunday worship dates back to the first century, while few second-century writers compare and contrast the Jewish Sabbath and the Christian Sunday. Derogatory discussions of the Jewish Sabbath do not usually refer to the Christian Sunday. If Sunday were a recent substitute for the Jewish Sabbath, we should expect far more discussion of the superiority of Sunday to the Sabbath." R. J. Bauckham, From Sabbath to Lord's Day, p. 271, edited by D.A. Carson.

EVIDENCE THAT THE EARLY CHURCH WORSHIPPED ON SUNDAY FROM THE EARLY CHURCH FATHERS

THE EPISTLE OF BARNABAS about A.D. 100 - "Wherefore, also we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead."

THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS - A.D. 107 - "Be not deceived with strange doctrines, nor with old fables, which are unprofitable. For if we still live according to the Jewish Law, we acknowledge that we have not received grace....If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and By His death."

THE WRITINGS OF JUSTIN MARTYR: A.D. 145-150 - "And on the day called Sunday all who live in cities or in the country gather together in one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read....But Sunday is the day on which we all hold a common assembly, because it is the first day of the week on which God...made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead."

APOSTOLIC CONSTITUTIONS: Church life in the 2nd Century: - "On the day of the resurrection of the Lord--that is, the Lord's Day--assemble yourself together without fail, giving thanks to God and praising Him for those mercies God has bestowed upon you through Christ."

IRENEAEUS: A.D. 155-202 - "The Mystery of the Lord's Resurrection may not be celebrated on any other day than the Lord's Day, and on this alone should we observe the breaking off of the Paschal Feast."

WHO CHANGED THE SABBATH FROM SATURDAY TO SUNDAY? WAS IT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH?

"Often the question is asked, "Isn't it paying homage to the Roman Catholic church to worship on Sunday because didn't Constantine change the day of worship?"

It is claimed that Constantine's edict of March 7, 321 changed the day. Constantine's edict reads:

"On the venerable Day of The Sun [venerablili dei Solis] let the magistrates and people residing in cities rest, and let all workshops be closed. In the country, however, persons engaged in agriculture may freely and lawfully continue their pursuits Codex Justinianus, book 3, title 12,3, trans. in Schaff, History of the Christian Church 5th ed. (New York: Charles Scribner, 1902), vol. 3, p. 380, note 1.

PLINY'S LETTER, AD 107

Pliny was governor of Bithynia, in Asia Minor, from AD 106-108. He wrote in AD 107 to Trajan, the emperor, concerning the Christians. This is what he said:

They were wont to meet together, on a stated day before it was light, and sing among themselves alternately a hymn to Christ as God....When these things were performed, it was their custom to separate and then to come together again to a meal which they ate in common without any disorder."

We know the day the early church broke bread on was Sunday. "Upon the first day of the week when the disciples came together to break bread" Acts 20:7.

IN AD 120 THE EPISTLE OF BARNABAS says in chapter 2:

"Incense is a vain abomination unto me, and your new moons and Sabbaths I cannot endure. He has, therefore, abolished these things.

When he speaks of the first day of the week, Barnabas says: "Wherefore, also, we keep the eighth day with joyfulness, the day, also, on which Jesusrose again from the dead" Chapter 25.

JUSTIN MARTYR (140 AD)

Justin's 'Apology' was written at Rome about the year 140, only 44 years after the apostle John received the vision of The Revelation at Patmos.

The Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge says this about Justin's works:

"In these works Justin professes to present the system of doctrine held by all Christians and seeks to be orthodox on all points. The only difference he knows of as existing between Christians concerned the millennium. Thus Justin is an incontrovertible witness for the unity of the faith in the Church of his day, and the fact that the Gentile type of Christianity prevailed." Quoted by Canright in The Compete Testimony of the Early Fathers, Fleming H. Revell, 1916, pp. 24-25.

NOTE: At this early date, AD 140, the only major difference among Christians was concerning the millennium. At that time they had no disagreement in keeping Sunday, and as you will see, Justin says that was the day on which all Christians worshipped.

In chapter 67 of his first Apology, entitled, "Weekly Worship of the Christians,"writing to the pagan emperor, Justin states:

"...we bless the Maker of all through His Son Jesus Christ, and through the Holy Ghost. And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought...But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought the change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead."The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 1, pp. 185-186 (emphasis added).

DIONYSIUS, BISHOP OF CORINTH IN GREECE, (AD 170)

Dionysius was Bishop of Corinth, the Church which Paul raised up and to which he gave the command about Sunday collections, in I Corinthians 16:1-2. He says:

"We passed this holy Lord's Day, in which we read your letter, from the constant reading of which we shall be able to draw admonition." Eusebius, Ecclesiastical History, Bk. 4, Chapt. 23 (emphasis added).

CLEMENT OF ALEXANDRIA, in Egypt, (AD 194)

Clement, writing around AD 194 says:

"He, in fulfillment of the precept, keeps the Lord's day when he abandons an evil disposition, and assumes that of the Gnostic, glorifying the Lord's resurrection in himself" Book 7, Chapter 12 (emphasis added).

IGNATIUS, the third bishop of Antioch, who died in AD 108, wrote:

"If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord's Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him... Let us therefore no longer keep the Sabbath after the Jewish manner, and rejoice in days of idleness; for "he that does not work, let him not eat."...let every friend of Christ keep the Lord's day as a festival, the resurrection-day, the queen and chief of all the days [of the week]" "Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians," The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 1, pp. 62-63 (emphasis added).

TERTULLIAN of Africa, wrote around AD 200:

In his Apology, Chapter 16, Tertullian says:

"We solemnize the day after Saturday in contradistinction to those who call this day their Sabbath, and devote it to ease and eating, deviating from the old Jewish customs, which they are now very ignorant of."

"Others, with greater regard to good manners, it must be confessed, suppose that the sun is the god of the Christian, because it is a well- known fact that we pray towards the east, or because we make Sunday a day of festivity" The Ante-Nicene Fathers, vol. 3, p. 123 (emphasis added).

NOTE: The early church explained why they prayed toward the east. It was because, "as the lightning which lighteneth from the east and is seen even to the west, so shall the coming of the Son of man be:" that by this we might know and understand that He will appear from the east suddenly" Ancient Syriac Documents, The Ante- Nicene Fathers, vol. 8, p. 668.

DO WE EVEN KNOW THE REAL SABBATH?

In 1582 Gregory XIII found a miscalculation in the calendar and decreed to drop October 5-14 and to drop 3 leap years in every century. In England 11 days (September 3-13) were dropped in 1752, in addition to other changes. (See Heresies Exposed, p. 167).

NEW LIGHT ON CEREMONIAL SABBATHS AND COLOSSIANS 2:16

An unbiased reading of Colossians 2:16 will show that this is talking about not just "ceremonial Sabbaths." The words "ton sabbaton" or "sabbath days"; are the same words translated "Sabbath day" in Exodus 20:8 in the Septuagint (the Jewish translation of the Old Testament into Greek).

Look at Paul's reasoning, "Let no one judge you regarding a,

• festival - yearly Sabbaths,
• a new moon - monthly Sabbaths,
• or a Sabbath day - weekly Sabbaths (or if you wish Sabbath days)"
• CHRIST, he goes on to say is the "Substance", these things were shadows.

When this passage is compared with Galatians 4:9 an obvious connection in Paul's teaching is revealed:

"But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years."

Verse 10 flatly states, "you observe...",

• days (weekly Sabbaths, corresponding to "Sabbath days in Col. 2)
• months (new moons, corresponding to "a new moon" in Col. 2)
• seasons (the 7 feasts, corresponding to "festivals" in Col. 2)
• and years (the sabbatical year and the 50th year of Jubilee)

Obviously Paul is clearing speaking about the observances of all Jewish holy day, including the Sabbath.

SABBATARIANS have long challenged, "Find one verse in the Bible that shows the day of worship has been changed from Sabbath to Sunday."

Well, that statement is part of building a straw man. It is not the issue. The New Testament makes that a moot point because it says it doesn't matter what day you worship on.

Romans 14:5
"One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind."

Galatians 4:9-11 "But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain."

Colossians 2:16-17 "Therefore let no one act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day--things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."

SABBATARIANS ASK FOR ONE TEXT IN THE BIBLE THAT COMMANDS SUNDAY WORSHIP, HERE IT IS:

LEVITICUS 23:5-11 - Look at verse 11: "'And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord for you to be accepted; on the day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it.'" The day after the Sabbath is Sunday.

Read on specifically looking at Leviticus 23:15 - "'You shall also count for yourselves from the day after the sabbath, from the day when you brought in the sheaf of the wave offering; there shall be seven complete sabbaths. You shall count fifty days to the DAY AFTER THE SEVENTH SABBATH; then you shall present a new grain offering to the Lord.'" This is the Feast of Pentecost. It was one of the compulsory feasts of Israel.

Note on the day of Pentecost, a Sunday God's people were commanded to worship. God says, "On this same day you shall make a proclamation as well; you are to have a holy convocation. You shall do no laborious work. It is to be perpetual statute in all your dwelling places throughout your generations." Leviticus 23:21.

If you think this is only applying to "ceremonial" days, Leviticus 23 starts out talking about the weekly Sabbath (see Lev. 23:1-4). It is called an appointed time and a holy convocation, along with all the other feast days of Israel. No distinction is made by God between these holy days and the weekly Sabbath. He includes them as being equally holy. This would mean that under the Old Covenant the First Fruits Sunday and the Pentecost Sunday were as holy and sanctified as Saturday.

If you think this only applies to Israel, that's our point. The Ten Commandment Covenant, --the Old Covenant was made with Israel, and NOT with the Gentiles.

Look at Exodus 31:13, 16 and 17: "But as for you, speak to the sons of Israel, saying, 'You shall surely observe My sabbaths; for this is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the Lord who sanctifies you....So the sons of Israel shall observe the sabbath, to celebrate the sabbath throughout their generations as a perpetual covenant. It is a sign between Me and the sons of Israel forever;..."

References for the 9 "moral" commandments reiterated in the New Testament:

1st - Worship God -
(53 times) Matthew 2:2; 2:8; 2:11; 4:9; 4:10; 14:33; 15:9; 28:9; 28:17, Mark 7:7, Luke 4:7; 4:8; 24:52, John 4:20,21,22(x2),23,24(x2); 9:38; 12:20, Acts 7:43; 8:27; 16:14; 17:23(x2); 18:7; 18:13; 19:27; 24:11, Romans 1:25; 12:1, 1 Corinthians 14:25, Philippians 3:3, Colossians 2:18, Hebrews 1:6; 9:1; 9:6; 10:2; 11:21, Revelation 4:10; 5:14; 7:11; 9:20; 11:1; 11:16; 14:7; 15:4; 19:4; 19:10; 22:8; 22:9

2nd - No Idolatry -

(20 times) Acts 15:20,29, Romans 1:25, 1 Corinthians 6:9; Chapter 8; 10:7,14; 12:2, 2 Corinthians 6:16, 1 Thessalonians 1:9, Galatians 5:20, Ephesians 5:5, Colossians 3:5, 1 Peter 4:3, 1 John 5:21, Revelation 2:14, 20; 9:20; 21:8; 22:15

3rd - No Profanity -

(4 times) Matthew 12:36, Ephesians 5:4, Romans 2:24, Revelation 16:9

5th - Honor Parents -

(6 times) Matthew 15:5, Matthew 19:19, Mark 7:10; 10:19, Luke 18:20, Ephesians 6:2

6th - Murder -

(7 times) Matthew 5:21; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 1:29; 13:9, James 2:11

7th - Adultery -

(12 times) Matthew 5:27,28,32; 19:9,18, Mark 10:11,19, Luke 16:18; 18:20, Romans 13:9, James 2:11, 2 Peter 2:14

8th - Stealing -

(6 times) Matthew 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20, Romans 2:21; 13:9, Ephesians 4:28

9th - Lying -

(4 times) Matthew 15:9; 19:18, Mark 10:19, Luke 18:20

10th - Don't Covet -

(9 times) Mark 7:22, Luke 12:15, Romans 1:29; 7:7; 13:9, Ephesians 5:3, Colossians 3:5, Hebrews 13:5, 2 Peter 2:14

Ron asked

why is it that the duty to keep the seventh day as the Sabbath is not mentioned once in the New Testament?

But when the writer of Hebrews refers to God having rested on the seventh day, he is drawing on the earliest symbol of rest, and linking it to our spiritual rest in Christ, which is absolute. (Christ, when speaking of marriage, also referred to the earliest mention in scripture, which is a good way of tracing God's original intent or thought.)

Adam and Eve would not have had to work for their food, if they had obeyed God's one negative command. Instead, they ended up working, such that by the time Adam died, a few years before Noah was born, Lamech was so burdened, that he gave his first son the name 'Rest' (which I've wondered about... whether, if Adam had been still alive, he would have had the courage to do :-o ).

So I do believe Jesus was saying that REST was made for the whole of mankind, not just the children of Israel.

Whoever said Jesus in John 4 was meaning salvation is for Jews only, I don't agree, as He said 'of the Jews', meaning, that salvation came through the Jews. Even in Jesus' day, a non-Jew could be circumcised and become Jewish...

Hi Martin, thank you for your message.

Please fo take the time to read this, it is a bit long but I hope it will be a blessing to you, I am not trying to convince you of anything, because the convincing part is not my job but the Holy Spirit. I am just telling you what I believe. please be patient and do read all the way to the end.

About the two laws you rill have to read all the other answears I have put a web link to it. if you do not find it ask me and I will put here again.

Martin, when God created the heavens and the earth, right there and then he decided that the seventh day was a special day to him and then he rested. Do you think God needed rest from his work? no. I don't think so.

Genesis 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished.

And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.

Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

It says that God Blessed and Sanctified it. Does it tell you that the Sabbath was important to him? it does to me.
To me whatever God blesses and whatever God sanctifies, I will make sure that I will be part of it because I want to be blessed and I want to be sanctified by God. The bible doesn't say that He sanctified it to anybody, to any nation, but it says that he did it to Himself. How I know that? because He rested in it, he participated in it, not because he needed rest but because he wanted us to know how important it is to Him.

Isn't it interesting that the first time the word blessed was used in the Bible is refering to Living Creatures, it says that God blessed them(Genesis 1:22). Then the word is used again when God blessed the creation of man.

Now what gets may attention is the fact that God had created the sun, the stars, the moon, the firmament, the Trees and a whole bunch of other things, but he did not bless any of them, but when he created the Sabbath not only he blessed it but he also Sanctified it. Not even Man received such honour to be blessed and be sanctified. Doesn't this tell you that somehow God wants us to read this and ponder seriously about it? it does me........

Then quite some time passed by, then the Bible mentions Enoch. It says that "Enoch begot Methuselah, and that he walked with God for 300 years after that, and he was not, for God took him". I makes me think about the sort of relationship Enoch had with God, that God decided to take him to heaven. It doens't say, but I am pretty sure that Enoch put himself in a position that God decided not only to Bless him but also to Sanctify him.

As you said yourself, it doesn't mention the fact that Abraham did keep the Sabbath, but it also doesn't say that he didn't. We can argue as much as we want about it, you can say that he did not and I say he did, we don't know, but I am sure that when Jesus comes back we will have a chance to ask directly to Abraham, but I am pretty sure he did keep the Sabbath.

One think about Abraham gets my attention.

Genesis 17:01. " When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, "I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly".

The bible doens't mentioned anything about any set of rules or laws that had been given to anybody or any people. How is Abraham supposed to know how to be blameless and how to walk before God? but he did, didn't he, because God confirmed the covenant with him.

Then in Genesis 26:01-05. What commandments and what laws is God talking about.

Then we have the story of Joseph and that follows the story os Moses and how God prepared Moses set them free and to be the guide of his people.

The Israelites were slaves, they were in bondage. And only after God had destroyed the Egyptians and Israel was safe in the other side of the red sea that God mentions the Sabbath again.

Exodus 16:23

((((( note that it is a holy day onto the Lord, not onto the Israelites))))

Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD has said: 'Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD.

((((( note that it is a holy day onto the Lord, not onto the Israelites))))

Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.' "

Here we have God reinstating his Holly Day. After he had seen his people in bondage for all those years, he provided a way for them to be set Free.

Then Moses starts to explain to them that God will provide food for them, the Mana. and that He will provide for six days but the seventh day there shall be none.

Let's not lose sight that since the beginning God created and not only he blessed the seventh day(SABBATH) but he also sanctified it. So He is the(((((Creator))))). Then we only hear about the (sabath or seventh day) after God had provided a way for his people to be free, which to me it means that only free people can keep His day. so He is the (((((Liberator)))))), Then God promises them the Mana, He becomes our(((((Provider))))))).

Then God writes the Ten Commandments. The Perfect Law, well you could not expect anything less for His is Perfect. To me the Ten Commandments from beginning to end talks about Love.

Firstly the Love from us towards him,
Secondly the Love towards our parents.
and Lastly the Love towards our fellow man.

If every nation on this earth were to abide by the ten commandments we would have heaven down here, Just think about it........

In Exodus 20:8-11 It says...

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath

(((((Here we know that the Sabbath is the seventh day, the same seventh day from creatin))))))

of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

It says here that God Rested on the Seventh day, and what did he do after that, He Hallowed it.
How dare we say that it is just another day, a day with no more importance than any other day. Who are we to say that it is not holy?, God created the Sabbath and he blessed it, sanctified it and hallowed it.

His son Jesus Christ Kept the Sabbath, because otherwise when all the Pharisees and Scribes kept on asking why do you do these things on the Sabbath.
Matthew 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days.

If the Sabbath was not important anymore what didn't Jesus just say that the Sabbath was just like any other day, pure am simple, and then we wouldn't be here talking about this. would we? but he didn't instead the said it is lawful to do good in the Sabbath.

The Other thing that I think I should mention is the fact that when Jesus was talking to his disciples about great tribulation. he said

Matthew 24:20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day.

Why would Jesus mention the Sabbath day. It does not make sense for him to say that if he would do away with Gods Holy Day. I wonder how many people in this whole earth, do pray for our day of scape not be on a Sabbath, do you? have you ever praid for that, asking God to provide a way so that we would not have to escape in his holy day??????

But one thing I have to say, and it is an opinon of mine, something that I have to say to you.

Even if Jesus said that the Sabbath is for Israel, which he did not and even if he had said that the Sabbath was not a requirerment of the Law anymore. I would still keep it because there is a promise to those who keep the Sabbath in Isaiah 56:1-8. Isaiah 56:1-8 Which is directed to us Gentiles....

Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. 3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off. 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people. 8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

After reading this passage, I have decided that if by keeping the Sabbath I will be granted a place in Gods house, a place within his walls and a name which will be better than the names of sons and daughters and this name will be everlasting.

In Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

See the similarities in these two passages?

I get sometimes upset that whenever you talk about the Sabbath, people tend to think that we think that by keeping the sabbath makes us right with God. I am here to tell you that, there is only one Name in which I am saved, Jesus Christ, and it is through his blood, shed in the Cross on that dreadful day, were God had to bruse his only son as an atoment for our sins. I also believe that without Jesus we have nothing, we have nothing to do with the father. but Jesus said if you love me you keep my commandments. Jesus did not come here to change the law but to fulfill it. and he also said that not a letter would be taken away of the law of Love, the ten commandments.

The Pharisees with their man made laws made the Sabbath such a burden that the day that God had made for our delight became a cross to bear, and that is why Jesus was so harsh on them. The Jews thought that salvation was only for israel and they thought that any foreigner living with them were lost anyway and they had them doing all the chores that according to their law was forbidden, but by doing this they were breaking the law.

I want you to think that by keeping the Sabbath, I aknowledge God as my creator, by accepting the sacrifice of his son for me, I aknowledge him as my liberator or saviour, he sets me free from bondage, because I am free to keep the Sabbath nobody is going to tell me that I have to work on the Sabbath, I am free I tell them that I do not work on that day, because my God demands from me to keep it holy. And by trusting that God will somehow give me double portion during the week so I don't have to work on the Sabbath, I aknowledge him as my provider.

May the Holy Spirit give us the wisdom to search God's word and be blessed. Jesus Christ is Lord today and forever.

Hello Christinyou and Inthelight brothers.

I think that this is going to be the fourth or fiveth time that I ask any of you to comment on these texts. So I will try once more maybe this time you can comment on them.

---First text is in Isaiah 56. Keep in mind that the text is talking about salvation for the Gentiles. I think that God is promising something really special to those who keep the Sabbath or am I wrong?

---Second text is found in Isaiah 66 22-23.

Keep in mind the part that says," and all flesh".

It seems to me that establishes the fact that it is not just for Israel, Although the apostle Paul says that we are all part of the same tree in Romans 11 09-36.

----The Third text is in Mark 15 33-47, 16 01-08,
Keep in mind that these people were Christ's Followers and pay attention to the first verse of chapter 16.

----The Last text is found in Matthew 24 15-28,
pay attention to verse 20. I think that there is no one, not one of us, that is doing what Jesus asked us to do in this verse. I can understand why Jesus would mention "pregnant mothers", and also that their "flight should not be in the winter or on the Sabbath " because it is bad news if we have to run away during this time. But he also asked us to pray so that we would not have to run away on the Sabbath. What would be the purpose of this if not to show us that this day - the Sabbath - is a special day and we should keep it holy????

In Christ and in Christ alone...

Hi Phillip,

I realise I haven't challenged you on this point before because I had no idea what a big deal it is in the US (and maybe other places), but I can't not comment here and now. (I've also replied in more detail in the Gentile Tribulation Question thread, p8.)

You said:

Israel is not born again and never will be.

Surely, 'Israel' was originally a person, Jacob, to whom God gave a new name, and this resonates with what happens to any who believe in Jesus Christ, whether Jew or Gentile... and, the first Christians were of Israelite descent... so how can you say they were not or cannot be born again?

The second question follows from a statement of Paul's to the Ephesians, 2:12 that at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.

Surely it is not possible to read that verse, without concluding that [u]now[/u] these (and all future) gentile believers are [u]included in the commonwealth of Israel[/u]?

If this is a new thought to you, please tell me.

Hi jayme,

I looked at the scriptures you asked in your last post, and would explain them this way: that Isaiah 56 looks forward to the time when the New Covenant has been established, and in ch 66, he (Isaiah) not fully understanding the changes which will occur (such as us being sanctified by the washing of water by the word, and the Holy Spirit), refers to Sabbaths and New Moons because the people understand these are special times of honour to God for which they would expect to prepare, and rituals they would obey.

Under the New Covenant though, our time of preparation is initially through repentance, followed by walking in newness of life in the terms laid out in Romans 6 and elsewhere - such as Colossians 2, and Romans 14, which both cover the abolition of the Old Covenant laws and our responses to that, from different angles.

The reference in Mark, brings out the spiritual significance of Jesus' death being on the same weekend as a Passover. Nor was it any ordinary Passover, but one in a jubilee year (I believe) which is year 50 in a 50 year cycle - an extra whole year off work - symbolising the liberty with which we have been set free by Christ.

Then, the day of Pentecost was 50 days after His resurrection, highlighting the same truth again.

I think if you read Galatians with the question of law-keeping in mind, you begin to understand why it became so important for the apostles to draw a clear line in the sand so that Jewish Christians learned to abandon those old rituals.... and this was to stop them thinking that they had any part of their salvation, through keeping the old laws.

Now, we are all bound by the royal law (love) to which we are enabled by the Holy Spirit shed in our hearts (Romans 5) and obedience to faith [u]in Christ[/u]. Of course, much more could be said on this last point.

But I want to comment on your text from Matthew. I've always understood this to be Jesus' acknowledgement that there would be Jews\\Israelites who would not receive the gospel, rather than that He was endorsing the keeping of sabbaths. Also, Young's Literal Translation, which is very strict on its use of 'the' 'an' or 'a' uses the indefinite article.

Matthew 24:20
and pray ye that your flight may not be in winter, nor on a sabbath;

One of the remarkable things about Judaism, is that forms of it are still being practised, including, of course, the keeping of sabbaths.
However, this is not a [i]requirement[/i] for the Church, we believe.

Hi Dorcas, thank you very much for your reply.

I would like you to allow me to comment and ask you a couple of things.

You Wrote: " he (Isaiah) not fully understanding the changes which will occur (such as us being sanctified by the washing of water by the word, and the Holy Spirit), refers to Sabbaths and New Moons because the people understand these are special times of honour to God for which they would expect to prepare, and rituals they would obey."

Did I understand you right? if not please tell me.

Are you saying that the prophet Isaiah, The one that God revelead all about the coming of the Messiah, the porpose of His coming, how he would die crushed by his own Father as an atonement for our sins and that he would bring salvation not only to Israel but to the us, the Gentiles. The Same prophet that talked of the new heavens and the new earth. And he also mentioned the fact that in that new earth all flessah from one New Moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another will come to worship before the Almighty God.
Are you saying that Isaiah did not fully understand the changes that would occur because of the coming of the Messiah?

did I understand you correctly, when you said about Sabbaths and new moons as being rituals people would obey. Correct me if I am wrong but isn't Isaiah talking about the new heaven's and the new earth?

If I understand correctly, and by that I mean, reading this passage and interpreting this gramatically. This is what I read here.

In the new heavens and the new earth, when we the saints will be in heaven, we, (all flesh) will, from one Sabbath to another, gather to worship God. Does that sound right? I think Isaiah is talking about the same new heavens and new earth that is mentioned in revelation 21:01.

You all talk about the Ten commandments as somthing that is no longer valid. When God gave the Law to Moses it was put inside the ark of the covenant, A I right?
Let me ask you something, if Jesus did away with the Ten Commandments, how come in Revelation 11:19 talks about the ark of the covenant right inside God's Temple? Makes me wonder......

The other thing about your comment on Matthew 24:20, Jesus is talking to his disciples about the events that will take place in the last days. right? Ok. I don't think he is talking about rituals, or different types of religion practiced back then.

He goes on saying," But woe to those who are pregnant and to those with nursing babies in those days". And He says pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. I do understand Jesus' Concern about women feeding their babies, how difficult it will be for them in those days, and also the Winter, because this will be times never experienced before, because he says that if those days where not shortened, no flesh would survive, (verses 22). what I don't understand is that fact that Jesus wants us to pray so that we don't have to flee on the Sabbath, it doesn't make sense if he did not really care about the keeping of the sabbath, does it?

This is how I see it. The prophet Isaiah left us real clues about what was coming regarding the coming of the Messiah, he new how the Sabbath was important to God, he also new that in heaven we will still keep the Sabbath holy, and by that I mean, all flesh will gather to praise the Lord. He also said regarding the coming of the Messiah for the Gentiles (Isaiah 56:01-08) that those who keep from defiling God's Sabbath, Would receive an amazing blessing, he says, to those I will give in my house and within My walls a place and a name better that that of sons and daughters. I will give them an everlasting name , that shall not be cutt off. this is the same promise that Jesus promised to those who belong to the faithful church. Revelation 3:07-13.

Jesus is mentioned unccountable times preaching in the synagogues on the Sabbath, in fact he only preached in the synagogues on the Sabbath,the bible never mentions any other day.

The apostle Paul did the same, it says that he reasoned with them for three sabbaths. Another interesting thing is the fact that Paul was never questioned by the people that persucuted him about breaking the sabbaths, I wonder why? that is because he kept the Sabbath.

I think that Jesus mentioned that fact that we should pray so that we don't have to flee on the sabbath because the sabbath is something really important to his father and he also wants to keep it holly. I also think that we should keep the sabbath because if is a rehearsal of this to come in heaven. Isaiah said that we will be gathering every sabbath to worship God, and I want to start practicing for that here and now.

Please, do read these passages again, your opinion is important to me and do please reply.

May God give us the desire to know him and understand his will in our lives.

Hi Christinyou. Thank you again for your reply.

Let me ask you something, do think that israel is still under the law? by that I mean should they still keept the sabbath? the way you talk about it I understand that the sabbath was made for israel and they have to keep but we don't? do I understand you correctly?

There is just one thing though, the apostle Paul says that we are grafted in one root, Christ is our root and us(gentiles) and Israel were share one root. I think if this is the case, then we all share one God, we have one Christ in which we are saved and also under the same Law. The ten commandments are laws of Love between God, us and our fellow man, the law that the Apostle talks about in collossians 2:16 is the law that moses wrote and that is why the apostle paul refers to it as the hand writing of requirements that was against us, which was the law that we had to obey should we sin, this law was nailed to the cross because Jesus is our sacrifice we no longer need to sacrifice a sheep for atonment for our sins.

you talk about the idea of anyday, anyday will do. Well there is just one problem with that. When Abel offered a sacrifice to God he was doing what God had commanded him to do, I believe. But Cain decided that he would do his way, he was going to offer God the best he had, but that wasn't what God wanted. and God goes on saying. Genesis 4:7-8 if you do well, will yoiu not be accepted? and if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. and its desire is for you, but you should rule over it. I think that God wants us to worship him in a way that he wants us to do, not the other way around....

Regarding to Hebrews 4:1-16. the last part of the text.

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.

Note that the whole verse is in the past tense. as God rested on the seventh day I can only enter his rest, by doing exactly what he did, He stoped his work and He rested.

For God so loved me that he gave his only begotten son to die for me. And only through him I have eternal life.

Hi Lkid, thank you for your message.

I have read and reread all the messages here not only once, and believe you me that when I read them I do pray that the Holy Spirit will open my heart and mind for the word of God.

A lot of people, when you mention about the Ten Commandments, they seem to disagree among thenselves. some say that the law is still valid for Israel but not for us the Gentiles. Some say that Jesus did away with the Ten commandmens for good, but I have a problem with that because, Jesus said, If you love me you keep my commandments.

John 14:21-24 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

I don't think Jesus could have been any clearer than this. if you love me you will keep my commandments, and what I say, is not me saying but the Father who sent me has said. Jesus never said about giving any new law, He came to show us that everything He did or said was just a repetition of what God had commanded us to do.

Matthew 5:16-19 16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. 17 " Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

I think that Jesus is quite clear when he said that nothing from the law of the prophets should change, Note that Jesus said first heaven and earth will pass away then the fulfilment of the law. To Me The commandments of God is as Holy now as it was then, also it is a source of wisdom now as it was then as well. Read in proverbes what it says about his commandments.

Proverbs 2:1-11 Proverbs 2:1 My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee; 2 So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding; 3 Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; 4 If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; 5 Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God. 6 For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. 7 He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous: he is a buckler to them that walk uprightly. 8 He keepeth the paths of judgment, and preserveth the way of his saints. 9 Then shalt thou understand righteousness, and judgment, and equity; yea, every good path. 10 When wisdom entereth into thine heart, and knowledge is pleasant unto thy soul; 11 Discretion shall preserve thee, understanding shall keep thee.

1 John 2:1-7 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning.

I could go on giving you passages that talk about the keeping of his commandments forever, because all throught the bible, we see the Gods commandmens holy, they are righteousness, they are light they are wisdom,etc........
Look what the apotle Paul says,
1 Corinthians 7:19 19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

This is something for you to think about.

Luke 1:5-6 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

we see that Luke is talking about two laws here. the commandments and the ordinances of the Lord. The Commandments are the Law of God, we have to obey them, the Law that we have to live by them, now should we break any of these laws then we would go to the Ordinances to cleanse us from our sin, which was all the rituals the israel hat to do, Because they were shadows of what was to come, The Messiah.

Now lets read

Colossians 2:13-17 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses, 14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross. 15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it. 16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ.

When Christ offered himself as propitiation for us, all the law of the ordinances then were nailed to the cross. These laws were against us, and since Christ is our priest, we do not need to offer sacrifices anymore, because the law regarding to this ceremony was nailed to the cross.

Please do reply and comment on the verses that I have just mentioned to you. I would like to know how you understand them.

Also I would like to know if you have any comments on these texts. what do you make of them.

May God bless us in your search of the Truth

Hi Lkid. I am not sure if you misunderstood me but you sure let off some steem.

I am not sure where you read in my last message to you that led you to the conclusion that I Judged you!!!!

Here are your words,

please reread the post from sermon index moderator. Its long but worth the read. Please PRAY about this.

I went back to my message and could not find anything that would led you to such conclusions. All I did was to give you bible texts that proves to Me(myself) that I should still keep his commandments.

I did go back to the moderator message and it is very easy to take one verse here and other there put them together and Voila, it says whatever you want it to say. And that is why most of the times I want to give you a verse I try to include the whole idea, what is that verse saying in the context of the chapter.

I have not judged you, I have not said that you have not prayed hard enough, and I have not said or make any comments on God's leaving anybody or any church in sin. These are your words.

I do not want this forum to turn into personal arguments, it was not the intention. I am not interested in opinions, I am interested in what the bible says.

by the Way I do know what is required of me to be saved. I have recognised Jesus as my only saviour, I do recognise him as the son of God and that only through him, and by him I am saved. And I was baptized in his name, dying to the old me and I was born again in his name. I love Jesus and Jesus taught us how to love him.

Jesus said if you love me, you will keep my commandments.

I want to say that we should keep the Ten Commandments because that is the Law of God. In God there is no shadow of change, he is always the same, today, tomorrow and yesterday. He doen't change.

what this, eating meat sacrificed to idols, is all about?

I am not here to offend anybody, and if at any point I did so, please do forgive me.

jayme

Hi there Thomasm.

I totally agree with you. Jesus is not only our everything but he is the only thing we have, whithout him, we have no part with the Father. We have to obey all his teachings, oh, wait a minute, not really his but the Father's, for in

John 14:21-24 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Is Jesus saying that what he is saying is not really him saying but What the Father who sent him said. Interesting.....

So should I keep God's Commands, or should I keep Jesus Commands. Hang on, I think that Jesus just said that the words he says isn't his but from the Father Who sent him. So is he saying that his word is the same words as the Father???

Jesus said that the Sabbath was given to men, but as with everything else God gives to men, men still won't accept it, theyt will not be subject to it. Just like when God gave his son to men, men refused him, denied dim, and tried to do away with him. Is Jesus my rest, He sure is, my salvation rests on him and in him alone.

but look what the Apostle paul had to say about entering his rest.

Hebrews 4:6-10 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts." 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

The secret is in him, the scriptures are about him, let's get caught up in Jesus and his greate salvation, and also let's keep his commandments for this is how we show him that we love him and that we have entered his rest.

with much love, Jayme

Hi Brother Paul, Thank you for your reply.

you said: The Spirit has not given me the guidance to observe the sabbath as one of those laws.
Are you talking about the Holy Spirit? if you are, then Am I to think that God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are three different entities not in accordance with each other?

I believe in the Trinity, God Gave me a command, The Ten Commandmens, you might say that He gave it to the Israelites, Well God called israel to be his people and through Jesus, as the apostle Paul says, Israel and the Gentiles are Grafted in the same Root. So we in fact, are one Body.
I know I keep repeating the same text but here it goes again.

John 14:21-24 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

Well it tells me that Jesus was doing exactly what the Father told him to do.

You asked me what is my definition of Sabbath Obeservance. Well I am afraid I do not have a definition because it is not my place to come up with one, but in his word God make very clear how he wants us to keep his commandments. The problem is that all through out the history of Israel we read how they were deffiling his commandment, by either worshiping other gods or breaking the law of the Sabbath. they were a rebelious people, then God would punish them to bring them back to him. if you read Isaiah, you will see how much emphasis Isaiah puts on the Sabbath.

The Sabbath is such a blessing, it is not a burden as a lot of people seem to think. it is a day that I separated to aknowledge that God is my Creator, is is a day where I do get together with likeminded people to have fellowship with him. and on that day, by the way it start Friday Sunset to Saturday Sunset, not Saturday Sunrise to Saturday Sunset. Some people say that I have Christ is my heart everyday, not only on the Sabbath, but I also have Christ im my mind and in my heart every day of the week, but in the Sabbath, I stop everything I normally do during the week, I prepare myself in a way that can dedicate that day exclusively for my God. it is a day that I will not worry about anything else but worship my Creator, my Provider and Saviour. That is how I keep my Sabbath.

You know, you mentioned the story of that man that was killed because he was gethering wood on the Sabbath. I ask you, On the day that everybody will stand before Gods Judgement, This man will say, How come You being the righteous One, the loving One, the One that never lies, the One who is fair and just, ordered me to be killed for gathering some wood so that I could keep myself warm or cook something for my family to eat. But then changed your mind and decided that the sabbath wasn't really that important to you. and from then on it was fine for everybody to do whatever they wanted on your holy day, Now was it fair what you did to me??????

I think that on that day, God will show that He is fair, Just and Righteous and there won't be anybody that will be able to use any excuse or make any acusations that He is unfair. You know why?? because He is all of that and he mesures all of us with the same mesurments. He does not change, he is One then, the same now and always. In God there is no shadow of change.

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and comes down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow of turning.

God bless us all....

God is my creator, Jesus my Saviour and the Holy Spirit is the one who reveals salvation and opens the doors of the hearts so that Jesus can go in......

Hi there Melissa,

I am a Sabbath keeper. When I started this forum, it wasn't my intention to convince anybody, because this is not my job, the convincing part is the job of the Holy Spirit.

As a believer, I want to share with everybody here why I believe that it is important to keep God's holy day holy. That is my duty to tell what I once was told and I do this because I want to tell people what a blessing is to keep the Sabbath. I have had moments in my life where I didn't think that the Sabbath was that important and during that time I never felt the peace that I feel now. Sometimes people tell us that something taste good, but we have to try it so that we can say for ourselves what that something really taste like. People say well I can do that any day of the week and that is fine, but if you are going to consider this, why not do axactly the way God commanded. In the beginning God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it. I believe that Adam and Eve had a face to face relationship with God, if God blessed the sabbath and sanctified it, and rested on that day, I am sure that Adam and Eve enjoyed the blessing of resting in this day.

The fact that we agree or disagree is it pretty obvious, but what I am interested is how we all can use the bible as our authority and still come up with different doctrines. One thing is a fact, we can't all be right!!!! I am not saying that I am right, although I believe I am. I am not saying you are right, because you could be. But as I said before, we can't both be right.

And that is why I want to know what you believe and also I want to express what I believe....

God bless us all for trying to understand his word......

Hi Warrior4jah, thank you for your questions.

but before I answer your questions and I will. But since I asked first, what is your explanation for what I have written.

You wrote:
You know, you mentioned the story of that man that was killed because he was gethering wood on the Sabbath. I ask you, On the day that everybody will stand before Gods Judgement, This man will say, How come You being the righteous One, the loving One, the One that never lies, the One who is fair and just, ordered me to be killed for gathering some wood so that I could keep myself warm or cook something for my family to eat. But then changed your mind and decided that the sabbath wasn't really that important to you. and from then on it was fine for everybody to do whatever they wanted on your holy day, Now was it fair what you did to me??????

Is it fair for this Guy to be stoned for not keeping the Sabbath and Now we are no longer required to keep it? Are we saying that God can change at anytime and all that we have learned about him looses its value. I think not.

I keep repeatin this but in God there is no shadow of change.

Please I would like you to comment on the above and I will answear your questions.

Hi lkid, I agree with you that everything we do should be for the Glory of God. One more reason for us to keep his commandments. What is sin, if not the breaking of the Law.

I just have one problem with what you have just said. The Catholic church persecuted and killed a lot of people, and I mean a lot of people and they all thought they were doing it for the glory of God. Does it make it right? I think not. I don't think we can be both right. Or you are right and I am wrong, or I am right and you are wrong, cannot have both. now, I keep the Sabbath because I believe it is part of God's law, and I am not only required to do everything that you think is right for you to do but I also believe that I still have to keep the Ten Commandments because it is the will of God in my life. with that in mind, let's do your way.

Let say that we are both right, but I don't believe that it is possible but just for the argument sake. You did your thing, followed what you believe was right, did it for the glory of God. and the same way with me, I did what I believe God wants me to do, did it for his glory. then I guess that we both will receive our rewards. Great.

Now let's do a bit different, only one of us is doing the right thing.

I will start with you, you honor God the right way, and you do it all for his glory. I not only did the same as you did but I went a bit further and decided to keep his commandments, the same commandments that God unccountable times punished israel for not keeping them. I wouldn't have lost a thing, I enjoy honoring my God, everyday of the week, but there is a day, a day that God himself honored, blessed and sanctified it, and I take that day, and I make it a special offering to my God, aknowledging him as my God just as it was written in Ezekiel 20:10-26

" Therefore I made them go out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness. 11 "And I gave them My statutes and showed them My judgments, 'which, if a man does, he shall live by them.' 12 "Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them. 13 "Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, 'which, if a man does, he shall live by them'; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them. 14 "But I acted for My name's sake, that it should not be profaned before the Gentiles, in whose sight I had brought them out. 15 "So I also raised My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, 'flowing with milk and honey,' the glory of all lands, 16 "because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols. 17 "Nevertheless My eye spared them from destruction. I did not make an end of them in the wilderness. 18 " But I said to their children in the wilderness, 'Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers, nor observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols. 19 'I am the LORD your God: Walk in My statutes, keep My judgments, and do them; 20 'hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.' 21 "Notwithstanding, the children rebelled against Me; they did not walk in My statutes, and were not careful to observe My judgments, 'which, if a man does, he shall live by them'; but they profaned My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them and fulfill My anger against them in the wilderness. 22 "Nevertheless I withdrew My hand and acted for My name's sake, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the Gentiles, in whose sight I had brought them out. 23 "Also I raised My hand in an oath to those in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the Gentiles and disperse them throughout the countries, 24 "because they had not executed My judgments, but had despised My statutes, profaned My Sabbaths, and their eyes were fixed on their fathers' idols. 25 "Therefore I also gave them up to statutes that were not good, and judgments by which they could not live; 26 "and I pronounced them unclean because of their ritual gifts, in that they caused all their firstborn to pass through the fire, that I might make them desolate and that they might know that I am the LORD." '

But lkid, if what I believe is the correct way, man you put yourself in the same place that Israel found themselves many many times. This text in Ezequiel tells me that God is serious about his holy day. And I am sure you have read, the troubles that God brought into Israel because of that. Israel was the People that God separated to be his people but they were a rebelious and they did not accept the salvation plan that God had provided to them through Jesus Christ, and then Salvation went to the Gentiles. the apostle Paul says that we are Grafted in the same root(Christ) , (Israel and Gentiles) are the branches. I believe that God does not have a set of commandments for Israel and one for the Gentiles. God has gave his commandments for his people, all of us and they are righteous laws.

As said before I keep the Ten Commandments because I believe it is required of me to do so, not for the reason that I mentioned above. I just said that for the argument sake.

The apostle Paul says,

1 Corinthians 10:11 11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.

Romans 3:23-31 all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

God bless all of us

Hi There Sean, I keep the same day God rested, Blessed and Sanctified when he finished Creation, The Sabbath is the Seventh Day of the Week.

I hope it answears your question.

God bless

Hi Lkid, I would love to here your comments on this..

You know, you mentioned the story of that man that was killed because he was gethering wood on the Sabbath. I ask you, On the day that everybody will stand before Gods Judgement, This man will say, How come You being the righteous One, the loving One, the One that never lies, the One who is fair and just, ordered me to be killed for gathering some wood so that I could keep myself warm or cook something for my family to eat. But then changed your mind and decided that the sabbath wasn't really that important to you. and from then on it was fine for everybody to do whatever they wanted on your holy day, Now was it fair what you did to me??????

If you say that we are no longer under the law of God, how do you know that you still sin?

Jayme

Hi Warrior4jah, you copied a bit of a text I wrote but you did not comment on it. here is it again, do comment of it and I will answer the questions you asked me. I am not saying that you are doing this, but people avoid my questions, with other questions. I will answer questions of those who answer mine, I think it is only fair...

Here is the text again.

the story of that man that was killed because he was gethering wood on the Sabbath. I ask you, On the day that everybody will stand before Gods Judgement, This man will say, How come You being the righteous One, the loving One, the One that never lies, the One who is fair and just, ordered me to be killed for gathering some wood so that I could keep myself warm or cook something for my family to eat. But then changed your mind and decided that the sabbath wasn't really that important to you. and from then on it was fine for everybody to do whatever they wanted on your holy day, Now was it fair what you did to me??????

will answer your question after you comment on this.

Hi there Brother Phillip.

Hebrews 4:1-12 Hebrews 4:1 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"; 5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest." 6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience.

What disobedience is the apostle Paul talking about, I believe you can find this here....

Ezekiel 20:5-27 Say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "On the day when I chose Israel and raised My hand in an oath to the descendants of the house of Jacob, and made Myself known to them in the land of Egypt, I raised My hand in an oath to them, saying, 'I am the LORD your God.' 6 "On that day I raised My hand in an oath to them, to bring them out of the land of Egypt into a land that I had searched out for them, 'flowing with milk and honey,' the glory of all lands. 7 "Then I said to them, 'Each of you, throw away the abominations which are before his eyes, and do not defile yourselves with the idols of Egypt. I am the LORD your God.' 8 "But they rebelled against Me and would not obey Me. They did not all cast away the abominations which were before their eyes, nor did they forsake the idols of Egypt. Then I said, 'I will pour out My fury on them and fulfill My anger against them in the midst of the land of Egypt.' 9 "But I acted for My name's sake, that it should not be profaned before the Gentiles among whom they were, in whose sight I had made Myself known to them, to bring them out of the land of Egypt. 10 " Therefore I made them go out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness. 11 "And I gave them My statutes and showed them My judgments, 'which, if a man does, he shall live by them.' 12 "Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them. 13 "Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, 'which, if a man does, he shall live by them'; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them. 14 "But I acted for My name's sake, that it should not be profaned before the Gentiles, in whose sight I had brought them out. 15 "So I also raised My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, 'flowing with milk and honey,' the glory of all lands, 16 "because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols. 17 "Nevertheless My eye spared them from destruction. I did not make an end of them in the wilderness. 18 " But I said to their children in the wilderness, 'Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers, nor observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols. 19 'I am the LORD your God: Walk in My statutes, keep My judgments, and do them; 20 'hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.' 21 "Notwithstanding, the children rebelled against Me; they did not walk in My statutes, and were not careful to observe My judgments, 'which, if a man does, he shall live by them'; but they profaned My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them and fulfill My anger against them in the wilderness. 22 "Nevertheless I withdrew My hand and acted for My name's sake, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the Gentiles, in whose sight I had brought them out. 23 "Also I raised My hand in an oath to those in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the Gentiles and disperse them throughout the countries, 24 "because they had not executed My judgments, but had despised My statutes, profaned My Sabbaths, and their eyes were fixed on their fathers' idols. 25 "Therefore I also gave them up to statutes that were not good, and judgments by which they could not live; 26 "and I pronounced them unclean because of their ritual gifts, in that they caused all their firstborn to pass through the fire, that I might make them desolate and that they might know that I am the LORD." ' 27 " Therefore, son of man, speak to the house of Israel, and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "In this too your fathers have blasphemed Me, by being unfaithful to Me.

Is God saying that by defiling his Sabbath I am being unfaithful to him?

Paul goes on...

7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts." 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

When did God Ceased his works? Seventh day.

11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

What disobedience? Israel

12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Brother Phillip I keep the Sabbath Because God Blessed it, Sanctified it, and because that is a signal the he is the lord who Sanctifies me.

Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.

Also, I keep the Sabbath because The bible tells me that

Isaiah 66:22-24 For as the new heavens and the new earth Which I will make shall remain before Me," says the LORD, "So shall your descendants and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass That from one New Moon to another, And from one Sabbath to another, All flesh shall come to worship before Me," says the LORD. 24 "And they shall go forth and look Upon the corpses of the men Who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, And their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh."

Is Isaiah saying that all flesh will gather on the Sabbath to worship God? .... Well that isn't going to be anything new to me when I get to heaven, for I am getting good practice right here and now.....

Having said that, I fell like I have to say one more thing. Everytime I post something on the Sabbath people write saying that the keeping of the sabbath doesn't make you holy, doesn't give you the right to go to heaven and all that. I want to repeat again what I have said before.

You are only saved through grace. God's Grace through the sacrifice of his perfect and holy son. Only the blood of Jesus can cleanse my sins, without him we have no part with the Father.

Brother's in Christ....

Hi Love Him, could you explain this to me, not sure I understood what you really mean...

isn't it ironic that many who kept the letter of the law did not keep the spirit of it. and many who do not keep the letter of it have actually kept the spirit of it (because we have Christ).. kinda ironic or something like that.

Are you saying that those who Keept the Ten Commandmenst, do not have Christ? not sure if that is what you are infering here. Could you please be a bit more clear...

jayme

ChrisJD, Thank you for your reply, but please start reading from the beginning and you will see that this has been addressed.

The apostle Paul says that we are part of the same root. There is only one body, the body of Christ.....

Romans 11:7-36 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. 8 Just as it is written: "God has given them a spirit of stupor, Eyes that they should not see And ears that they should not hear, To this very day." 9 And David says: "Let their table become a snare and a trap, A stumbling block and a recompense to them. 10 Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see, and bow down their back always." 11 I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. 12 Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness! 13 For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, 14 if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. 15 For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. 17 And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, 18 do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, "Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in." 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion, And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob; 27 For this is My covenant with them, When I take away their sins." 28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. 29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. 30 For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, 31 even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. 32 For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all. 33 Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out! 34 "For who has known the mind of the LORD? Or who has become His counselor?" 35 "Or who has first given to Him And it shall be repaid to him?" 36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

Hi there Seanjol, I will answear your question, but you will have to do some thinking yourself. And I kind of know the point your are trying to make, but let's try to find out when is the Sabbath according to the Scripture and I will also mention things out of the scripture, but just as an example.

Well the Bible tells in Matthew that the Sabbath is the day after the Preparation day.

Mark 15:42 Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath,

So We have, Preparation Day( sixth day), Sabbath(Seventh day) and then we have the first day(Which I believe to be on a Sunday. Correct? ok, maybe you don't agree with the fact that the Sunday is the first day, but one thing is for sure this is the sequence, because the Apostle

John 20:1 Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.

Paul wrote:

1 Corinthians 16:2 On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.

One thing is a fact, most churchs nowadays to gather together on the sunday because they say it was the day the Christ our lord left to tomb. So if you believe that, then you know that the first day is sunday. Don't know if you believe it or not but just for argument sake.

You agree with me that the sequence of days is correct.
Now here comes the part where you will have to do some research yourself. you will have to find out when was the preparation day for the Jews, Go to the history books and find out when was the Sabbath changed to Sunday and by whom. Because it definetly wasn't the apostle Paul. how do I know that?

Well in
Acts 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures.

One interesting thing to note is that, The Pharisees nowhere in the old testament accused Paul of breaking the law of the Sabbath, makes me wonder why is that? He was persecuted by them, acused by them but nothing regarding the Sabbath. Now they acused Jesus disciples of breaking the Law of the Sabbath didn't they.

Matthew 12:1-2 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day through the corn; and his disciples were an hungred, and began to pluck the ears of corn, and to eat. 2 But when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto him, Behold, thy disciples do that which is not lawful to do upon the sabbath day.

Note that They acused Jesus Disciples, but they did not include Jesus in the acusation Why is that? Then Jesus goes on saying:

Matthew 12:7-8 But if ye had known what this meaneth, I desire mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

This is How I understand this passage. The law required that nobody should work of the Sabbath day. I mean nobody, now Jesus and his disciples were travelling by that city and instead an offer to stay and eat with them, which was a requirement of the law for them, to take care of the travellers so that they did not have to break the law of the Sabbath. it was also required in the law the the some of the crops had to be left without harvest for that same purpose. But insteaf offering the disciples mercy, they went to acuse them of breaking the law and by doing that they broke the law themselves for not offering mercy to them. and Jesus goes on saying, because of your lack of understanding you have condemned the guiltless. Jesus is the Lord of everything including the Sabbath. Someone says here that anything that is very important to us, it is Written in a way that we do not need to interpret. Well if Jesus thought that the Sabbath wasn't important he could just have said, I am the Lord and I say unto you that the Sabbath is no longer binding. but he did not say that.

For those who think that we somehow lost the sequence of the days and things. for in Daniel it says:

Daniel 7:25 and he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws:

I suggest you to do some studying regarding this Prophecy in Daniel, he is talking about the beast trying to change times and laws.

Go to history books and find out who officially changed the law of the Sabbath. and then ask yourself in what authoroty did he do it?

I know I am opening a can of worms in here, but I want everybody reading this that I am not making any assumption I am just giving you food for thought. Go do your research and make your own conclusion.

have a look at this:

http://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/cal_art.html

in here you will see that, T

ten days were omitted from the calendar, and it was decreed that the day following (Thursday) October 4, 1582 (which is October 5, 1582, in the old calendar) would thenceforth be known as (Friday) October 15, 1582.

As you can see, when the calendar changed we changed the dates, but the sequence of days was the same.

Acording to this the Sequence of the days was never lost, therefore I believe that the seventh day, Sabbath and saturday are the same.

Another thing that gives me confidence to the fact that saturday is fact the Sabbath is that, I come from Brazil, and in Brazil we speak Portuguese, and in portuguese the days are not the same as it is in english. In portugues the days are named as is, Domingo(sunday) Segunda-feira(second market day) terca-feira(third market day) Quarta-feira(fourth market day) Quinta-feira(fith market day) sexta-feira( Sixth market day, Sabado(Sabbath). You cannot go wrong with that could you????

I hope this answears your questions.

In love. Jayme

Hi there thomasm.

I suggest you to have a read on the book of Hebrew. it clearly addresses the ceremonial laws, the law that was nailed to the cross when Jesus died, the law that was fulfilled when Jesus died, he became our high priest in the tabernacle that is in heaven, so from then on, we don't need to offer sacrifices for atonment for our sins. And these laws, if you go back to deuteronomy you will see that they talk about,the ceremonial food, drink special Sabbaths, that are no longer binding to us. but make no mistake the Sabbath of the Ten commandments is part of the unchangeble law that God gave us. so go back to Deuteronomy and search the word so you will know that there are two laws. one written by the hand of God and another one called the law of ordinances, which was written by moses, and this is the law that the apostle paul is talking about when he says, let no one judge you by food and drink and sabbaths, because only on the law of ordinances that drink and food and special sabbaths are mentioned. circuncicion is part that ritual which are no longer binding to us.

you said, Jesus was not under the law any more than God our
Father is, the laws is mostly what God isn't, the do not's, Jesus came and show us the father, his love , mercy, his very nature. God's nature is so far above the law, that it keeps it, but isn't governed by it. I also do not need a law to tell me not to covet, with god's love in my heart I would do any harm to even my enemy.

Have a look on what it is said about the righteous law of God.

Psalm 1:1-2 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful. 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.

Psalm 19:7-8 he law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple. 8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.

Psalm 40:1-9 the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.> I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry. 2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings. 3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD. 4 Blessed is that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies. 5 Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered. 6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me, 8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law is within my heart. 9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.

Psalm 78:1-7 Give ear, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. 2 I will open my mouth in a parable: I will utter dark sayings of old: 3 Which we have heard and known, and our fathers have told us. 4 We will not hide them from their children, shewing to the generation to come the praises of the LORD, and his strength, and his wonderful works that he hath done. 5 For he established a testimony in Jacob, and appointed a law in Israel, which he commanded our fathers, that they should make them known to their children: 6 That the generation to come might know them, even the children which should be born; who should arise and declare them to their children: 7 That they might set their hope in God, and not forget the works of God, but keep his commandments:

Psalm 89:30-35 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments; 31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; 32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. 33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. 34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips. 35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David.

Proverbs 28:4-9 4 They that forsake the law praise the wicked: but such as keep the law contend with them. 5 Evil men understand not judgment: but they that seek the LORD understand all things. 6 Better is the poor that walketh in his uprightness, than he that is perverse in his ways, though he be rich. 7 Whoso keepeth the law is a wise son: but he that is a companion of riotous men shameth his father. 8 He that by usury and unjust gain increaseth his substance, he shall gather it for him that will pity the poor. 9 He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.

These are not my words, but the Words of David and Solomon. If I were to put all the verses that talks about the Law of God and how good they are, I would have to put half of the bible here.

Be wise when you talk about the law, and make sure that you know which law you are refering to. Cause Gods Law is all the above and endures forever....

wj3000 wrote:
"Someone says here that anything that is very important to us, it is Written in a way that we do not need to interpret. Well if Jesus thought that the Sabbath wasn't important he could just have said, I am the Lord and I say unto you that the Sabbath is no longer binding. but he did not say that." No jesus didn't, but paul did in col 2:16. Again, i'll point out that your semantic argument regarding the many, plural sabbaths doesn't hold water because many translations have a singular sabbath. You haven't explained this.

joel

btw, I hope that most of us would agree that the sabbath is saturday.

joel

Sorry we can't be begiled!!!!!
Col 2:16-20
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
KJV

I bailed on this thread sometime ago but I was recently reading these words

Galatians 5 NIV

1It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery.
2Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all. 3Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law. 4You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace. 5But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope. 6For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

7You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? 8That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. 9"A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough." 10I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be. 11Brothers, if I am still preaching circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been abolished. 12As for those agitators, I wish they would go the whole way and emasculate themselves!

13You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love. 14The entire law is summed up in a single command: "Love your neighbor as yourself." 15If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

Hello Seanjol.

Let me make a couple of points very clear not only to you but to everbody.

As much as some of us are trying to turn this forum into silly arguments in regards of each other's religion, I will not go down that Road. For if I do not agree with you I will try to explain to you, by posting bible texts, and give whoever wants to read them, my explanation. It is my right to voice what I believe in. I apologize to everybody here before hand.

I have really enjoyed writing in this forum. It has helped me to understand a little bit about the reasons many people don't keep the Sabbath, which I didn't know before. I, at any point declared myself to know everything about the Bible, but I do search throught the word for wisdom and I do ask the Holy Spirit to give me the understanding, for I, like all of you here, want to serve the Lord the right way.

So, please Seanjol, let's not make judgments on peoples's believes or teachings.

You have asked me about when was the Sabbath day in three messages, but after I have replied to you you haven't mentioned a single thing about it. makes me wonder.....

you Quote:

"Now therefore why do you put God to the test by placing upon the neck of the disciples a yoke which neither our fathers nor we have been able to bear? But we believe that we are saved through the grace of the Lord Jesus, in the same way as they also are." Acts 15:10-11."

Please go back the postings, and you will see that I have mentioned this before but will say again..

There is only one name under heaven in which we are saved. Salvation is by grace, not by works. There is nothing you can do that can grant you salvation. I am justified because Jesus died on the cross and paying for all my sins. I am justified by faith.

James 2:17-26 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe -- and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

The Apostle Paul in Romans Chapter 2 is trying to make the same point. The jew thought that they had the law and that was everything they needed to be right with God. The Jew cannot be justified only by the law, and The Gentile saved through faith in Jesus need the law to know what is sin.

Romans 2:12-13 For as many as have sinned without law will also perish without law, and as many as have sinned in the law will be judged by the law 13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;

Again I will repeat what James said, faith alone is Dead and works alone is dead.

I feel I should repeat this again. This is what I believe.

There is only one name under heaven in which we are saved. Salvation is by grace, not by works. There is nothing you can do that can grant you salvation. I am justified because Jesus paid for all my sins. I am justified by faith.

You Quote:

The final judgment of the Jerusalem Council contains no reference to Sabbath keeping. Circumcision was discussed and deemed unnecessary (vss. 5-6; 19-20). If Sabbath keeping were to be an essential part of the New Covenant relationship with God it would have been mentioned in the discussion because it would have been an unfamiliar practice to the Gentiles. Sabbath keeping was not even discussed because it is not a requirement for New Covenant believers:

This is what I believe. There are things that are established, they don't change. The apostles knowing how important the Seventh Day is to God, it was not even mentioned. Funny though, I am pretty sure that the apostles new the terrible things Israel had endured because of it. God throughout the generations, kept on punishing Israel for breaking the Sabbath and because of idolatry, they went through wars, famine, scattered, killed by their enemies and all of that for this very reason. and the apostle, The ones that were with the Lord of the Sabbath would consider changing his holy day. I think not. but then, the fact that they did not mention it, we take as if it is not important anymore. They did not talk about it, so let's change it.

One question for you. Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath, right? I wonder what John meant when he said in

Revelation 1:10-11 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet, 11 saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last," and, "What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea."

he was in spirit on the Lord's Day, did you notice Capital Letters. I wonder if it is talking about something important. and my question to you is, was the book of revelation written after of before the Jerusalem council?

I seems to me that the Lord still honor his day.
That is what I believe, it would be interesting to see your comments on this verse in Revelation.

Did God still honor that day so that people would still call that day the Lord's Day?

You Quote:

"For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay upon you no greater burden than these essentials; that you abstain from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication; if you keep yourselves free from such things, you will do well. Farewell." (Acts 15:28-29). "

You know, Friday evening I come home after working all week. then I get prepared for my Sabbath, once the son goes down, by the way how do I know that it is after the sundown, well

Genesis 1:5 God called the light Day, and the darkness He called Night. So the evening and the morning were the first day.

Note evening comes first. At Friday Sundown, I have a fellowhip moment with my family, we sing, we pray and then our Sabbath starts. Then you ask, what do you do, absolutely nothing, but read my bible, listen to music, and by that I mean music that praises God, for not even during the week I listen to any other kind of music. then I do to bed nice and early, I get up early, I get ready to go to my church, where I will meet with likeminded people to praise the Lord, and there I will spend the whole morning and every two Sabbath we get together for a meal at the church with all the members and visitants, after the meal we talk to each other and some play the piano, some sing, some chat on the basement of the church, then right about the middle of the afternoon, we all get together to praise God, everybody helps with the service by either singing, or talking about God's word. We finish the service right about the sunset with more singing and praying, then we all go home. The days we don't have a fellowship lunch, then we all go home, and go for walks, visit friends and relatives, etc...

This is the way I keep my Sabbath, I am not saying by any means that is the way everybody should keep, I am saying this because everytime I say something here people write back implying things that I have not meant.

My question to you is, does it sound like a burden to you? I tell you My Sabbath is a delight to me, I do not have to do anything else, nothing, nada. Except rest, do good to others and praise my God

The Pharisees with their man made rules turned the Sabbath into a burden, with all the don't do's and by that they were rebuked by Jesus.

You Quote:

16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. 17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. 18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. 19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. 20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. 21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. Galatians 2:16-21

I think I have answeared it before but here it goes again..

There is only one name under heaven in which we are saved. Salvation is by grace, not by works. There is nothing you can do that can grant you salvation. I am justified because Jesus died on the cross and paying for all my sins. I am justified by faith.

You Quote:

Jayme, Sabbatarianism is being a foolish Galatian. It is adding to the gospel. It is trying to gain righteousness through the law.

Uncalled for, so I will make no comments.

You Quote:

So how do you answer? Did you receive the spirit by works of the law or by the hearing of faith? Do you work miracles and proclaim the gospel of Christ by the works of the law or by the hearing of faith.

I think I have answeared this one as well but just is case.....

There is only one name under heaven in which we are saved. Salvation is by grace, not by works. There is nothing you can do that can grant you salvation. I am justified because Jesus died on the cross and paying for all my sins. I am justified by faith.

You Quote:

Finally, I looked back and observed that your join date to this forum coincides with you posting this thread. I also noticed that most if not all of your posts have been concerning this topic. While it is not my mission in life to refute and pursue 7th day adventists, there is a community of believers here who truly desire to seek after God and the fullness of his Spirit. It concerns me when some come on and try to add the yoke of the law back onto believers. Please pray for wisdom. As Greg posted earlier learn about the dangers of the Adventists and the dangers of their teachings.

I will have to break this one down, I don't believe tried to hide the date that I joined this forum, and I did not know there was any rules or regulation as far as to having to wait a certain period so that I can post or open a forum. So I don't really see the point in you mentioning that.

You say that you are not on a mission to refute or porsue anybody and yet, you did this very thing. by the above, do you mean that I don't desire to seek God and the fulness of his spirit?
Learn about the dangers of the Adventists and the dangers of their teachings.

Totally uncalled for, please let's not mention names and pass judgements on each other, I think this is an insult to one's faith. The apotle paul adverted us about doing this.

I hope that I have answeared all your questions.

Since you Wrote this message to me I thought that was my right to say something back, but note that I have only defended myself, I have not made any attack on you or anybody else. As I said in the beginning I will not go down this road of arguing about silly things. This is a Forum that I have oppened to talk specifically about the sabbath matter. If you want to comment on something else there are other forums that you can contribute.

Please do forgive if I offended you in any way..

God bless....

Hi wj3000,

Thank you for your comments.

You quote:

Isaiah 56 clearly refers to foreigners believing in the Lord before Christ. That's why the foreigner in question is worried about being excluded from the Lord's people, the Jews. If it were referring to after Christ, then this obviously wouldn't be a concern. This is why the keeping of the sabbath is mentioned.

Isaiah 56 Starts like this:

Isaiah 56:1 Thus says the LORD: "Keep justice, and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come, And My righteousness to be revealed.

I believe, Isaiah is talking about Jesus. Who is the salvation that is about to come, and how God's righteousness is going to be revelead? by Jesus, that is very clear to me.

So I believe that Isaiah is refering to Salvation that is coming to the Gentiles through Christ. Salvation is to the Lord.

Here comes a Blessing:

Isaiah 56:2-3 Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil." 3 Do not let the son of the foreigner Who has joined himself to the LORD Speak, saying, "The LORD has utterly separated me from His people"; Nor let the eunuch say, "Here I am, a dry tree."

Here comes a promise:

Isaiah 56:4-7 For thus says the LORD: "To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant, 5 Even to them I will give in My house And within My walls a place and a name Better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off.
6 " Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants -- Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant -- 7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."

Interesting that the same promise to them is again repeated here in Revelation.

Revelation 3:10-12 "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 "Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

You quote:

it is very suspect to me that just because the prophet uses new moons and sabbaths in a poetic way to express time passing during which all mankind will come and bow down to me", we should conclude that all mankind is to keep the sabbath for ever. Your interpretation is far from air tight and very suspect.

Look Isaiah 58:13-14 if you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words, 14 Then you shall delight yourself in the LORD; And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of the LORD has spoken."

Did God just call The Sabbath his holy day....

The Sabbath is not a burden whatsoever, just like God said, it is a delight......

I am sorry for being sarcastic but you said that the Poet Isaiah is clearly talking about the new heavens and the new earth in a poetic way.... right? Poets talk about poetry.

I believe that the Prophet Isaiah is talking about the new heavens and the new earth in a prophetic way, Talking about all flesh, and by that he is not talking about Jews or Gentiles, he is talking about all flesh. I see that as every living thing in the universe, will come to worship him. Owesome....

Isaiah 66:4 So will I choose their delusions, And bring their fears on them; Because, when I called, no one answered, When I spoke they did not hear; But they did evil before My eyes, And chose that in which I do not delight."

I see the word delight again,

If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight.

You quote:
In Mark 16:1.. ?? I fail to see how Mary Magdalene and some others trying to anoint Jesus' body after the sabbath is to be taken as a command to keep the sabbath.

Let's see. When the Apostle at the Jerusalem Council did not mention the Sabbath. Everybody assumes that the Sabbath is no longer binding to us. It is very clear to me that they kept the Sabbath. Note that we are talking about Jesus mother, I believe that if Jesus had changed the SAbbath least he would tell his mother if nobody else...

Matthew 28:1 Now after the Sabbath, as the first day of the week began to dawn, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary came to see the tomb.

Mark 16:1 Now when the Sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices, that they might come and anoint Him.

Luke 23:54-56 That day was the Preparation, and the Sabbath drew near. 55 And the women who had come with Him from Galilee followed after, and they observed the tomb and how His body was laid. 56 Then they returned and prepared spices and fragrant oils. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

John 20:1 Now on the first day of the week Mary Magdalene went to the tomb early, while it was still dark, and saw that the stone had been taken away from the tomb.

Pay attention to the last verse in Luke 23:56. Do you still fail to see it.

You Quote:

Matthew 24:20.. It is clear that the Lord is talking about those who are left in Judea at the time of tribulation. These are not necessarily Christians he's talking about. People in Judea would most likely be Jews, and they would have an aversion to fleeing on the sabbath. That's why they wouldn't want to have to flee on the sabbath.

Jesus was a very loving and caring person. He had being with all sorts of disabled people. people that couldn't walk, blind, et.. To think that he would mention pregnant women, and women still feeding their babies, fleeing in the winter, you would think that Jesus would mention, the blind, the lame, but no, even though, according to the new covenant, the Sabbath was no longer to be observed, Jesus cared more about their aversion of fleeing on the sabbath. To me it is clear that Jesus never cared about their man made traditions, so much so that he healed on the Sabbath, He did good on the Sabbath, why is that, because Jesus wanted to make them mad? I believe that Jesus would healed on the Sabbath to leave us the example that it is right to do good on the Sabbath. to do things that will benefit other, but things that we don't get anything back for it.

You quote:

Beyond the points mentioned above, I have an important question. Why is the only evidence that the sabbath should be kept by Christians to be found in offhand and suspect poetic devices, thinly scattered throughout the scriptures?

I believe that the whole Scripture is inspired by God. I do not see the bible as in Old Testament not valid, New Testament valid, I see it as in Bible all valid, all good, and all in accordance. but I will give you some bible texts that to me says that the apostles kept the sabbath..

Mark 1:21 Then they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath He entered the synagogue and taught.

Mark 6:1-2 Then He went out from there and came to His own country, and His disciples followed Him. 2 And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue. And many hearing Him were astonished, saying, "Where did this Man get these things? And what wisdom is this which is given to Him, that such mighty works are performed by His hands!

Luke 4:16-17 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah. And when He had opened the book, He found the place where it was written:

What a conicidence, Jesus was reading the Prophet Isaiah, not the poet Isaiah.

Luke 13:10 Now He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath.

John 7:23-24 If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath? 24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment."

Here Jesus could have said, to them point blank, The sabbath is no longer binding, but no, he said to them judge with righteous judgement, judge what? if the Sabbath is still valid or not, no, I don't think this is what Jesus meant.

About the apostles:

Acts 13:14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down.

Acts 13:27 "For those who dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they did not know Him, nor even the voices of the Prophets which are read every Sabbath, have fulfilled them in condemning Him.

Acts 13:42-44 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. 44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

Almost the whole city.

Acts 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

I don't know if you see the same, but it is very clear to me that both Jesus and the apostle Paul had a habit of going to the synagogue on the Sabbath. Now are you saying that it is the case of do what I say and don't do what I do. please don't say that they did this because everybody did so they did as well. If Jesus had changed it He would not go into the Sabbath he would change it there and then, Dont't Tell me Jesus can provide salvation for all of us but would chose to go along with what was established.

I believe that the Sabbath is as valid today as it was on the first week of creation. God gave all the other days just an ordinal number, but the seventh day.

What do you make of this....

Some say that they sabbath day is Jesus and when they accepted Jesus they entered his rest. That sound good to me, but I don't think Paul is talking about Jesus here, is he? Because it says in the last verse that

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

Just like in Genesis.

Genesis 2:2-3 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Hebrews 4:6-10 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts." 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

The One thing about the Sabbath is that when God Rested in it, and blessed it and Sanctified it, Sin had not even entered this earth. Everything was perfect and that is why the number seven means Perfection.......

God bless you.....

Hi there chris..

Not sure if I understood you point, but as I said before we are part of one body and if you had read until the end of the verse you gave me you would have read this..

Galatians 3:26-29 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

You can choose which one you want to call the root. We are one with Christ and one with Abraham.

you asked me:

Jayme, which is greater: the sabbath day or the Lord of the Sabbath?

Fortunately for me I do not have to answear this question, since I keep the Sabbath and was also purchased by the blood of the Lord of the Sabbath. isn't that cool, I can choose both.

Hi ChrisJD!!!

Your Quote:

Hi everyone, would like to offer here this Apostolic warning concerning the works of the Law, which was given by the Apostle Paul:
For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

If you are talking about the book of law or the Ten Commandments?

Because the book of law was written by Moses:

Deuteronomy 31:24-26 So it was, when Moses had completed writing the words of this law in a book, when they were finished, 25 that Moses commanded the Levites, who bore the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying: 26 "Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

The Ten Commandments were written by God, it was written in stones, not a book.

Deuteronomy 4:13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone.

Deuteronomy 10:1-2 At that time the LORD said to me, 'Hew for yourself two tablets of stone like the first, and come up to Me on the mountain and make yourself an ark of wood. 2 'And I will write on the tablets the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke; and you shall put them in the ark.'

the tablets of stones was then put inside the Ark of the Covenant, the same Ark John saw up in heaven.

Revelation 11:19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. The book of the Law was put beside it the ark as moses told them.

26 "Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you;

What Law is the apostle Paul talking about here...

Romans 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

God bless....

Hi There wj3000,

I haven't claimed anything you are the one suggesting that I said it.

Jesus never sinned, he not only didn't steal, lie, covet, commit adultery, murder, worship other gods, but he Kept the Sabbath as well, right? Because it was required by the law of the Ten Commandments, right? isn't that interesting,....

Because Jesus fulfiled the law, and I have faith in him does it mean that I can do whatever I want?

Faith does not void the Law, it establishes it.

What is faith without works? Dead. what is work without faith? Dead.

How do you know that you have sinned if not by the law. because you know although we are saved we still sin right?

BlazedbyGod wrote:
Col 2:16-20
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which ARE a shadow of things TO COME; but the body is of Christ.

Amen:
Sorry we can't be begiled!!!!!
Col 2:16-20
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.

20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
KJV

Notice Paul does not use the word " were" (past tense), He says which ARE (which means, to still presently be).

He does not says: Which WERE a shadow of things ALREADY come..."

Second point:

Paul makes this statement AFTER Christ has come, died, resurrected, and ascended. Yet he still says ".....TO COME...." (not have come)

Col 2:16-20
16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
17 Which ARE a shadow of things TO COME; but the body is OF Christ.

To use ARE and TO COME-is to speak of in the present something TO happen (not have happened already)

Thirdly: He says "....but the body is OF Christ"
"OF Christ" -not Christ.

Also he says: " Which are a shadow of THINGS (plural) TO COME...not a person, not even one isolated incident, but he said of THINGS (more than one event to occur)

Of course to judge someone is more than to speak.

Dear Brother Phil.

Thank you for your reply, I went back and read all your replies to me. I, then decided to make a few comments to clear the air on some issues that we have been discussing.

You Quoted:

I just don't understand why after beholding Christ would one desire to be in bondage to the "weak and beggerly elements of the law"??

It clearly shows to me that you and I are talking about two different laws. For what you call Weak and beggerly, some others call it bondage, burden, etc... I read all over the bible totally the opposite.

Look how God's commandments are described througout the Bible.

Psalm 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments. His praise endures forever.

Psalm 112:1-3 Praise the LORD! Blessed is the man who fears the LORD, Who delights greatly in His commandments. 2 His descendants will be mighty on earth; The generation of the upright will be blessed. 3 Wealth and riches will be in his house, And his righteousness endures forever.

Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man's all. 14 For God will bring every work into judgment, Including every secret thing, Whether good or evil.

Psalm 1:1-3 Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, Nor stands in the path of sinners, Nor sits in the seat of the scornful; 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night. 3 He shall be like a tree Planted by the rivers of water, That brings forth its fruit in its season, Whose leaf also shall not wither; And whatever he does shall prosper.

Psalm 119:162-167 I rejoice at Your word As one who finds great treasure. 163 I hate and abhor lying, But I love Your law. 164 Seven times a day I praise You, Because of Your righteous judgments. 165 Great peace have those who love Your law, And nothing causes them to stumble. 166 LORD, I hope for Your salvation, And I do Your commandments. 167 My soul keeps Your testimonies, And I love them exceedingly.

Proverbs 28:9 One who turns away his ear from hearing the law, Even his prayer is an abomination.

Proverbs 6:22-23 When you roam, they will lead you; When you sleep, they will keep you; And when you awake, they will speak with you. 23 For the commandment is a lamp, And the law a light; Reproofs of instruction are the way of life,

So you don't say that they are all from the Old Testament, Although, for me, old and new are the word of God I make no distinction between them, but some do, saying that the new believers don't even need it. Can you believe it?

Romans 7:11-12 therefor sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Paul also said that the Commandment is holy, just and Good.

Jesus taught us how to love him.

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.

John 14:10 - 15:1 Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. 11 "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves. 12 " Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 "And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 "If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. 15 " If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever -- 17 "the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 "I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you. 19 " A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 "At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him." 22 Judas (not Iscariot) said to Him, "Lord, how is it that You will manifest Yourself to us, and not to the world?" 23 Jesus answered and said to him, "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me. 25 " These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. 26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. 27 "Peace I leave with you, My peace I give to you; not as the world gives do I give to you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid. 28 "You have heard Me say to you, 'I am going away and coming back to you.' If you loved Me, you would rejoice because I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is greater than I. 29 "And now I have told you before it comes, that when it does come to pass, you may believe. 30 "I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me. 31 "But that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave Me commandment, so I do. Arise, let us go from here.

Jesus clearly said that, your will be done not mine, Also the words he said, were not his but the Father who sent him.

We know one thing, if we love him we have to keep His commandments, now we have to decide what are these commandments.

In John, Jesus sais that the Father gave him commandment and he obeys it so that the world may Know that he Loves the Father.

31 "But that the world may know that I love the Father, and as the Father gave Me commandment, so I do. Arise, let us go from here.

1 John 5:1-3 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Why do we keep saying that his laws and commandments are a burden. To me it clearly says the opposite.

1 John 2:1-8 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining.

I believe that When Paul talks about the Law that was against us, he is talking about the Law of ordinances, the ceremonial law, the Law that were shadow of things to come. The Law the moses wrote, and then it was placed right beside the ark of the covenant.

Deuteronomy 31:26-27 Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a witness against you; 27 "for I know your rebellion and your stiff neck. If today, while I am yet alive with you, you have been rebellious against the LORD, then how much more after my death?

It has nothing to do with the Ten Commandments, The Ten Commandmens are Holy.

You Quoted:
Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

I remember ever saying in this forum that you can be justified by obeying the Law, because then Jesus would have died for us in vain. Because the bible clearly tells me that under heaven, there is not other name in which we can be saved. Justification is through Faith in Jesus Christ, I think that we have stablished that. If we could do anything to be saved apart from what Jesus did for us, we would have a reason to Boast, and that is exactly what the apostle Paul is telling us. But Abraham Believed but when he was willing to offer his son as a sacrificed he confirmed his faith.

Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son.

James 2:17-26 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe -- and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

I believe that when we accept Jesus as our saviour, there has to be a change in our life, there has to be a confirmation of my faith in him there has to be a change in the way I will live my life after coming to know Him . you cannot have Jesus in your life and go on doing the same things that you did before knowing him.

Now how do I aply the Sabbath in all of this.
Once you are Justified by faith in him you then start the process of Santification. He said that if we love him we will have to Keep his commandments, which are not really his, but of the Father who sent him.

Matthew 19:16-19 Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?" 17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." 18 He said to Him, "Which ones?" Jesus said, " 'You shall not murder,' 'You shall not commit adultery,' 'You shall not steal,' 'You shall not bear false witness,' 19 'Honor your father and your mother,' and, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "

Then you say, well he didn't mention the Sabbath.

Note that, Jesus mentioned six commandments from the Ten commandments that we should keept, correct? ok. All of the Commandments he mentioned were commandments that I should keep in relation to my fellow man. what are all the other four Commandment talking about? Well the other four commandments is about my relationship with God.

1st
Exodus 20:3 You shall have no other gods before Me.

2nd
Exodus 20:4 You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth;

3rd
Exodus 20:7 You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

4th
Exodus 20:8-11 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Now, Some say, he did not mention the Sabbath.
but he also did not mention about having other gods. does it make it right for us to have other gods? I think not.

He didn't mention about making carved images. does it make it right for us to make them? I think not.

He did not mention about Taking the name of the Lord God in vain either? does it make it right for us to take his name in vain? I think not.

He did not mention the Sabbath, even though it was his habit to go to the synagogues to preach on the Sabbath. Does it make it right that we say the Sabbath is not longer required?

I wamt to make a point here. A lot of people ask me? so The fact the I don't keep the Sabbath, does it mean that I will not be saved?
When you put like that it does seem legalism doesn't it? but what you have ask yourself is this.

God punished israel severely for breaking mainly the four first commandments, The Commandments that addressed our relationship with God, they did worship other Gods, they made images, which they were not supposed to make. they took the name of the Lord in vain, because God says that his name is blasphed because of their Rebellion. they did not keep the commandments of the Sabbath.

I believe is that if I break his commandments and I do not keep them, I am being rebellios. I am not passing judgment on anybody, I am just saying exactly what God said about Israel. God called them Rebellios people because they were not keeping his commandments.

Read this....

Ezekiel 20:4-49 Will you judge them, son of man, will you judge them? Then make known to them the abominations of their fathers. 5 " Say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "On the day when I chose Israel and raised My hand in an oath to the descendants of the house of Jacob, and made Myself known to them in the land of Egypt, I raised My hand in an oath to them, saying, 'I am the LORD your God.' 6 "On that day I raised My hand in an oath to them, to bring them out of the land of Egypt into a land that I had searched out for them, 'flowing with milk and honey,' the glory of all lands. 7 "Then I said to them, 'Each of you, throw away the abominations which are before his eyes, and do not defile yourselves with the idols of Egypt. I am the LORD your God.' 8 "But they rebelled against Me and would not obey Me. They did not all cast away the abominations which were before their eyes, nor did they forsake the idols of Egypt. Then I said, 'I will pour out My fury on them and fulfill My anger against them in the midst of the land of Egypt.' 9 "But I acted for My name's sake, that it should not be profaned before the Gentiles among whom they were, in whose sight I had made Myself known to them, to bring them out of the land of Egypt. 10 " Therefore I made them go out of the land of Egypt and brought them into the wilderness. 11 "And I gave them My statutes and showed them My judgments, 'which, if a man does, he shall live by them.' 12 "Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them. 13 "Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in My statutes; they despised My judgments, 'which, if a man does, he shall live by them'; and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in the wilderness, to consume them. 14 "But I acted for My name's sake, that it should not be profaned before the Gentiles, in whose sight I had brought them out. 15 "So I also raised My hand in an oath to them in the wilderness, that I would not bring them into the land which I had given them, 'flowing with milk and honey,' the glory of all lands, 16 "because they despised My judgments and did not walk in My statutes, but profaned My Sabbaths; for their heart went after their idols. 17 "Nevertheless My eye spared them from destruction. I did not make an end of them in the wilderness. 18 " But I said to their children in the wilderness, 'Do not walk in the statutes of your fathers, nor observe their judgments, nor defile yourselves with their idols. 19 'I am the LORD your God: Walk in My statutes, keep My judgments, and do them; 20 'hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the LORD your God.' 21 "Notwithstanding, the children rebelled against Me; they did not walk in My statutes, and were not careful to observe My judgments, 'which, if a man does, he shall live by them'; but they profaned My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them and fulfill My anger against them in the wilderness. 22 "Nevertheless I withdrew My hand and acted for My name's sake, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the Gentiles, in whose sight I had brought them out. 23 "Also I raised My hand in an oath to those in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the Gentiles and disperse them throughout the countries, 24 "because they had not executed My judgments, but had despised My statutes, profaned My Sabbaths, and their eyes were fixed on their fathers' idols. 25 "Therefore I also gave them up to statutes that were not good, and judgments by which they could not live; 26 "and I pronounced them unclean because of their ritual gifts, in that they caused all their firstborn to pass through the fire, that I might make them desolate and that they might know that I am the LORD." ' 27 " Therefore, son of man, speak to the house of Israel, and say to them, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "In this too your fathers have blasphemed Me, by being unfaithful to Me. 28 "When I brought them into the land concerning which I had raised My hand in an oath to give them, and they saw all the high hills and all the thick trees, there they offered their sacrifices and provoked Me with their offerings. There they also sent up their sweet aroma and poured out their drink offerings. 29 "Then I said to them, 'What is this high place to which you go?' So its name is called Bamah to this day." ' 30 "Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Are you defiling yourselves in the manner of your fathers, and committing harlotry according to their abominations? 31 "For when you offer your gifts and make your sons pass through the fire, you defile yourselves with all your idols, even to this day. So shall I be inquired of by you, O house of Israel? As I live," says the Lord GOD, "I will not be inquired of by you. 32 "What you have in your mind shall never be, when you say, 'We will be like the Gentiles, like the families in other countries, serving wood and stone.' 33 " As I live," says the Lord GOD, "surely with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out, I will rule over you. 34 "I will bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you are scattered, with a mighty hand, with an outstretched arm, and with fury poured out. 35 "And I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will plead My case with you face to face. 36 "Just as I pleaded My case with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will plead My case with you," says the Lord GOD. 37 "I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant; 38 "I will purge the rebels from among you, and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the country where they dwell, but they shall not enter the land of Israel. Then you will know that I am the LORD. 39 " As for you, O house of Israel," thus says the Lord GOD: "Go, serve every one of you his idols -- and hereafter -- if you will not obey me; but profane My holy name no more with your gifts and your idols. 40 "For on My holy mountain, on the mountain height of Israel," says the Lord GOD, "there all the house of Israel, all of them in the land, shall serve Me; there I will accept them, and there I will require your offerings and the firstfruits of your sacrifices, together with all your holy things. 41 "I will accept you as a sweet aroma when I bring you out from the peoples and gather you out of the countries where you have been scattered; and I will be hallowed in you before the Gentiles. 42 "Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I bring you into the land of Israel, into the country for which I raised My hand in an oath to give to your fathers. 43 "And there you shall remember your ways and all your doings with which you were defiled; and you shall loathe yourselves in your own sight because of all the evils that you have committed. 44 "Then you shall know that I am the LORD, when I have dealt with you for My name's sake, not according to your wicked ways nor according to your corrupt doings, O house of Israel," says the Lord GOD.' " 45 Furthermore the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 46 "Son of man, set your face toward the south; preach against the south and prophesy against the forest land, the South, 47 "and say to the forest of the South, 'Hear the word of the LORD! Thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I will kindle a fire in you, and it shall devour every green tree and every dry tree in you; the blazing flame shall not be quenched, and all faces from the south to the north shall be scorched by it. 48 "All flesh shall see that I, the LORD, have kindled it; it shall not be quenched." ' " 49 Then I said, "Ah, Lord GOD! They say of me, 'Does he not speak parables?' "

The Apostle Paul talks about Laws that the Jews had and the they could not keep why were they trying to make the Gentiles live by them.

Now you know why they couldn't keep those.

Ezekiel 20:25 Therefore I also gave them up to statutes that were not good, and judgments by which they could not live.

God punished them and gave them laws that they could not keep because they were defiling the Sabbath.

You Asked me?

you believe in salvation by grace through faith in Jesus, but how do we stay saved?? what is our sanctification??

Yes, I am Justified through faith in Jesus Christ, once I have accepted Jesus Christ as my saviour, I am Justified, and the Assurance of my salvation is explained in John.

1 John 1:1 - 2:29 That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life -- 2 the life was manifested, and we have seen, and bear witness, and declare to you that eternal life which was with the Father and was manifested to us -- 3 that which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. 4 And these things we write to you that your joy may be full. 5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. 7 But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us. NKJ 1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. 3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. 6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked. 7 Brethren, I write no new commandment to you, but an old commandment which you have had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which you heard from the beginning. 8 Again, a new commandment I write to you, which thing is true in Him and in you, because the darkness is passing away, and the true light is already shining. 9 He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. 10 He who loves his brother abides in the light, and there is no cause for stumbling in him. 11 But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes. 12 I write to you, little children, Because your sins are forgiven you for His name's sake. 13 I write to you, fathers, Because you have known Him who is from the beginning. I write to you, young men, Because you have overcome the wicked one. I write to you, little children, Because you have known the Father. 14 I have written to you, fathers, Because you have known Him who is from the beginning. I have written to you, young men, Because you are strong, and the word of God abides in you, And you have overcome the wicked one. 15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. 16 For all that is in the world -- the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life -- is not of the Father but is of the world. 17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever. 18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. 20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also. 24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us -- eternal life. 26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you. 27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him. 28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming. 29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.

You Asked:
what happens if one in your fellowship if one does not observe the sabbath??

Not Sure if I understood your question. What do you mean what happens? What happens as in, are we going to throw him out of the church? or are we going to try to brain wash him? I believe that to be part of something you have to share the same Ideias, in this case understanding of the scriptures.

is sabbath keeping a rule that your fellowship believes in or a personal conviction??

Well I have fellowship with likeminded people, therefore it is a fellowship with the same beliefs.

Phill, I am not trying to convince anybody, it is not my job to convince anybody, that is the job of the Holy Spirit. I do read the texts that everybody posts in here and I do read them with an open mind and believe you me, if I read something and the Holy Spirit tells me that I should live in accordance to it, believe you me I would change...

Hi Brother Joel.

You Wrote:
If we take away the plural sabbaths, which is a premise of your argument, then what we're left with is trying to explain why Paul means to say the opposite of what he plainly says in clear, unequivocal terms. He says 'don't be pressured into keeping the sabbath'. You've used great amounts of extraneous detail trying to explain away the intended meaning of this passage. I'm not buying it.

Let's see, For one, I am not selling anything. We are discussing something that you believe differently than the way I do, that's all. you have mentioned a few translations that shows it in singular.

If you have any problem with translation, then go to Greek and find out what it really says:

Here are some translation that I found for you...
and they are only in english, if you research the same word in other Languages, French, italian, portuguese, etc... they are all in plural.

(((((((σαββατων, of the sabbaths)))))

(ACV) “new moon or Sabbaths,”
(Darby) “new moon, or sabbaths,”
(DRB) “new moon or of the sabbaths,”
(Geneva) “moone, or of the Sabbath dayes,”
(KJ2000) “moon, or of the sabbath days:”
(LONT) “new moon, or of sabbaths;”
(NET) “new moon, or Sabbath days -“
(NLT) “new-moon ceremonies or Sabbaths.”
(TMB) “new moon or the Sabbath days,”
(VW-Edition) “new moon or sabbaths,”
(WmsNT) “monthly feasts or sabbaths.” (ALT) “new moon [festival] or of Sabbaths,”
(Bishops) “moone, or of the Sabboth [dayes]:”
(EMTV) “new moon or of sabbaths,”
(IAV NC) “New Moon, or of the Sabbath Days:”
(KJV21) "new moon or the Sabbath days,"
(MKJV) “new moon, or of the sabbaths.”
(NIRV) “New Moons and Sabbath days.”
(NRSV) “new moons, or sabbaths.”
(TS98) “new moon or Sabbaths -“
(WCNT) “new moon, or of sabbaths,”
(WORNT) “new-moon, or sabbaths;” (BBE) “new moons or Sabbaths:”
(CAB) “new moon or of sabbaths,”
(GB) “moone, or of the Sabbath dayes,”
(KJV) “new moon, or of the sabbath days:”
(LITV) “new moon, or of sabbaths,”
(Murdock) “new moons, and sabbaths;”
(NKJV) “new moon or sabbaths,”
(RYLT-NT) “new moon, or of sabbaths,”
(Tyndale) “mone or of the sabboth dayes.”
(Webster) “new-moon, or of the sabbaths:”
(YLT) “new moon, or of sabbaths,”

Hope these are enough for you.

You wrote:

If he didn't cancel both, then we wouldn't be saved because we've all broken the ten commandments.

Well israel broke the commandments and they were declared a rebellious people, and God did not change the Commandments to accomodate israel rebellious behaviour, but he punished them severelly. I don't want you to write back and tell me that I am judging you, because I am not. I am just pointing out what happened to Israel for rebellin against God.

Jayme

Hi there Chrisjd

You Asked:

"But who says you can choose both?"

My Answer to you is:

"Who says I cannot?

I believe that the Sabbath is a sign between God and Me. A sigh to show me that he is the one Who Sanctifies me.

Exodus 31:13-14 Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14 'You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you.

Leviticus 20:7-8 Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy, for I am the LORD your God. 8 ' And you shall keep My statutes, and perform them: I am the LORD who sanctifies you.

Ezekiel 20:12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.

Hebrews 2:11-13 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying: "I will declare Your name to My brethren; In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You." 13 And again: "I will put My trust in Him." And again: "Here am I and the children whom God has given Me."

And I Gave my life to the Lord of the Sabbath.

To Me they are Both Holy.

Jesus because he is the Son of God.

and the Sabbath because God (Genesis 2:2-3) on the seventh day, ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Exodus 16:23 Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD has said: 'Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.' "

Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Exodus 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you

And my favourite verse.

Isaiah 58:13-14 If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words, 14 Then you shall delight yourself in the LORD; And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of the LORD has spoken."

You Asked:

And if you were free to choose both are you free to contend for that choice among others?

Are you contending? I am not. You asked me I answered. Remember?

So there you go. I choose both. Sorry

HI there.

I have a couple of questions for you.

You Quoted:

"I am wary (fearful) of man adding to the scriptures and adding on ordinances and sacraments for people to be saved or to maintain their salvation.

Personally, I worship on Sunday, the first day of the week. I worship on the Lord's day. No it is not Saturday."

The bible tells me that Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. So am I right to guess that the Sabbath is the Lord's day? My question to you is, Where is scripture have you found the the Lord's day is the first day? which is called Sunday, day of the sun, sun is a god that most civilizations of the past worshiped. I came accross a text in the bible recently and I would like you to read.

Ezekiel 8:15-18 Then He said to me, "Have you seen this, O son of man? Turn again, you will see greater abominations than these." 16 So He brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house; and there, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about twenty-five men with their backs toward the temple of the LORD and their faces toward the east, and they were worshiping the sun toward the east. 17 And He said to me, "Have you seen this, O son of man? Is it a trivial thing to the house of Judah to commit the abominations which they commit here? For they have filled the land with violence; then they have returned to provoke Me to anger. Indeed they put the branch to their nose. 18 "Therefore I also will act in fury. My eye will not spare nor will I have pity; and though they cry in My ears with a loud voice, I will not hear them."

Please, Do I am not infering that those who do go to church on sundays are worshiping other gods. I would like to know if anybody was ever shown this text before.

I do not want to offend anybody.

Jayme

Hi there Sean,

You said that I keep avoiding your questions, I believe that I have answeared the first in that Long message, but I will answer them again.

you asked:

"So I ask you now, am I an apostate because I worship on Sunday? Am I less of a believer in Christ? If I have confessed Jesus as my Lord and walk with Him daily and go to church faithfully every Sunday, am I in danger of losing my salvation because of my Sunday attendance? I ask this because this has been taught by 7th day Adventists in the past. I am not asking to be contentious, honestly. My only hope is that while you say we are saved by grace through faith and that not of works, you believe that in your heart."

I will answear your question by telling you a story.

Saul was not to offer the Sacrifice he was supposed to wait for Samuel. but Samuel did not arrive then what did Saul do?

1 Samuel 13:9 So Saul said, "Bring a burnt offering and peace offerings here to me." And he offered the burnt offering.

Now you might say, Wow did God rejected Saul just because of that. It was just a sacrifice, He was trying to please God, wasn't him? He thought that he could substitute Samuel and God would accept him. He wasn't doing something so terrible, at the end of the day, he was only trying to please God.

What then Samuel told him?

1 Samuel 13:13-14 And Samuel said to Saul, "You have done foolishly. You have not kept the commandment of the LORD your God, which He commanded you. For now the LORD would have established your kingdom over Israel forever. 14 "But now your kingdom shall not continue. The LORD has sought for Himself a man after His own heart, and the LORD has commanded him to be commander over His people, because you have not kept what the LORD commanded you."

1 Samuel 15:22-23 Then Samuel said: "Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, As in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams. 23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king."

God rejected Saul not because he offered him the Sacrifice, but because he did not obbey what God had commanded him. He thought he could do what he thought was right, but it didn't work did it?

Brother I hope that this will answer your question, but if you are asking me for an answear as in yes or no, I cannot give you that answear for only God is the Judge of all things, and I pray to God that on that day of judgement none of us may be found in fault.

Look what John says:

Revelation 11:16 - 12:1 And the twenty-four elders who sat before God on their thrones fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying: "We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty, The One who is and who was and who is to come, Because You have taken Your great power and reigned. 18 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth." 19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

Look what revelation says about the judgement.

Revelation 20:13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

Remember when the apostle Paul said:

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

James 2:26 - 3:1 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

you see we need Faith because we are only saved through grace, but we also need the works, because one without the other is Dead.

Question 2:

What do we have to take into account here.

1) There were preachers of Judaism in Rome, and they were making claims that you should keep the law of orninances, the law that was nailed to the cross, the law that is not binding to us anymore. As I have mentioned before I believe in two very distictive laws. The Ten Commandments and the Book of the Law. The one that moses said it was against them.

2) The other thing. if you read the whole chapter of Romans 14, you will agree with me that it talks mainly about food and it mentions drinks. People were aguing about it.

Romans 14:17 for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit.

Romans 14:20-23 Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21 It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles or is offended or is made weak. 22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23 But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.

Where does the laws of what is clean to eat and what is anclean? Not in the Ten Commandments. So it must in the other law.

Regarding the fact that Paul mentioned "esteemeth" it is clear to me that he is not talking about the Weekly Sabbath. Everywhere in the bible it is said, keepth, observe, hallow the Sabbath. Nowhere it is mentioned the word "esteemeth" the Sabbath, it is just not there. Now let me show where the word "Esteemeth" is used.

The word was used four times in the whole bible.

here they are,

Job 41:26-27 The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon. 27 He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.

Romans 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

The word does not mean, to keep, to hallow, to observe.
Here is what Esteemeth means: to think, to reckon, to steem, count, compute, calculate, count over, to prefer.

So you don't say that it depends on what translation you are using, I will put the greek word for you as well.

kpl'vew = To Judge, to decide, to think....

Now what of these words fits better in the context.

I particularly believe that the Word think is the best choice, but reckon is fine as well.

Please do a bit of research on it and you will see that it has nothing to do with the keeping of the Sabbath whatsoever.

I myself have days that I esteemeth less than others, for instance I (think, Esteemeth) Fridays above Mondays. Why because Monday is the beginning of my working week and Fridays are the end of my working week and my preparation day for my rest.

This chapter is introduced as pertaining to doubtful things and is predominantly about food matters. (Food matters are expressly mentioned in nine verses out of twenty three.) There is no direct reference to the Sabbath here. In fact a discussion of a matter as important as the Sabbath in verses 5 & 6 would seem somewhat out of place in this chapter as a change in the observance of the day of worship would hardly be an individual matter. It would be an issue seriously affecting the whole church.

The discussion of the significance of certain days can be understood as part of the discussion of food matters rather than as a digression. The observance of "days" would best fit the immediate context if the particular days being discussed concerned fasting. It is conceivable that the problem being addressed was a dispute over the appropriate days for fasting. There was a tradition among the Pharisees that they should fast twice a week, on Monday and Thursday. This tradition was followed by the early Christian Church. As the fasting mentioned here is a voluntary practice, Paul's exhortation, "Let each be fully convinced in his own mind" is an appropriate response to the situation.

You mentioned that I suggested a text in Ezekiel that had nothing to do with the Sabbath.

What about this one in Isaiah?

Isaiah 58:13-14 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: 14 Then shalt thou delight thyself in the LORD; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Please do not mention that this promise is only for israel, because we have already said that we are all sons of Abraham.

Galatians 3:27-29 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I am sorry that you feel that there is no gain in our conversation.

But since you have asked my questions, Can I ask you a few?

has Jesus ever kept the Sabbath?

what day of the week would jesus have fellowship and read the scriptures?

what about the apostle Paul, what day was his habits of going to the synagogues? or was Paul a hypocrite? do what I say not what I do.

How come the Apostle Paul was persecuted and yet, nowhere in the bible he was acused of breaking the law of the Sabbath? How come? Jesus they acused, even though Jesus never did, because we know that Jesus fulfilled the Law in its fulness. and by saying fulfilled I I mean he kept the law he did not abolish it.

one last one, can you tell me, when was the Sabbath changed to the first day of the week and by whom?

I would like you to reply me since you acused me of avoiding yours questions.

If you decide that you don't want to answear them because you had enough of this discussion. I will understand, it is your right. As far as I am concerned, we have discussing the bible, even though we believe in different things I still think there is much to gain, I have learned a lot since I started this thread and I thank you all for your messages.

Jayme

Hi Joel,

your wrote:

OK, I'm not going to argue about translating Koine Greek here. I know perfectly well that there are many translations that have a plural and many that have a singular. This causes me to believe that there is no significance at all in whether paul meant it to be singular or plural.

I will put here what you wrote before.

My point was that the word sabbaths is only plural in some translations. For example, ASV,CEV, ESV, GNB, HMV,ISV,WEB, WNT and NIV all have a singular sabbath here. If we take away the plural sabbaths, which is a premise of your argument, then what we're left with is trying to explain why Paul means to say the opposite of what he plainly says in clear, unequiwocal terms. He says 'don't be pressured into keeping the sabbath'. You've used great amounts of extraneous detail trying to explain away the intended meaning of this passage. I'm not buying it.

I guess that you really didn't want discuss translation.

I my have misunderstood you then. Sorry...

Sonmind,

Like you I also believe that this is a great site, and I am thankful that I found it. When I started this forum I wanted to see biblical explanation regarding the keeping of the Sabbath.

Having said that, I feel like there are people that think that their ways or beliefs are the only ones correct, and think that they know best. I hope you know who I am taking about? I never at any time said that what I believe is the absolute truth, I am studying the word and learning everyday. I have written about what I believe but I also read about what everybody believes, Although we disagree on the issue of the Sabbath I have not passed judgement on anybody.

You wrote:

"I believe we need to continue to have honest discussion, but that we need to be mindful of the others who read what I pray we prayerfully write. There are those who come here as honest seekers of Truth, and there are others who come here to flex their intellectual and theological muscles. Some are yet lost in their sins, while most of us are probably born again and in various stages of development and maturity in our personal faith. Lets be mindful of the fact of the awesome responsibility we have as Ambassadors of Christ."

By writing something like this, my question to you is. What muscles are you flexing? censorship, maybe. prejudice perhaps.

I do know my responsibility as an abassador of Christ and is that very responsibility that compels me to spend hours writing and sdudying the word so it may be a blessing not only for me but for others.

you wrote: """"I am more concerned with rightly dividing the Word of Truth, than maintaining the postions of all these doctrinal and denominational groups and individuals that have nothing to do with Truth, or our being transformed into the image of HIS dear Son"""""

Wow, have you just judged me???????

I

As I said before I do not, and will not write to people about silly arguments. Some people come here once and pass judgements on people.

This is a forum to talk about the Sabbath, if you do not like to talk about it, There are hundreds of other forums that you can contribute.

Although my words seems harsh, I am not mad. I just feel it is my right to reply to you. and it will be my last message to you. I want to talk about the word of God.

Here is a comparison for you of the two very disctintive laws.

(The Ten Commandments) The Ceremonial Law
(A temporary Jewish law)

1. First spoken by God Himself. Exodus 20:1,22.

1. Spoken by Moses. Exodus 24:3.
2. Written by God’s finger. Exodus 31:18; 32:16.

2. Written by Moses. Exodus 24:4; Deuteronomy 31:9.

3. First written on stones. Exodus 31:18.

3. In a book. Exodus 24:3, 7; Deuteronomy 31:24.

4. Handed by God its writer, to Moses. Exodus 31:18.

4. Handed by Moses, its writer to Levites. Deuteronomy 31:25-26.

5. Deposited by Moses “in the ark”. Deuteronomy 10:5.

5. Deposited by the Levites “by the side of the ark”. Deuteronomy 31:26, ARV.

6. Deals with moral precepts. Exodus 20:3-17.

6. Deals with ceremonial, ritual matters.
(See parts of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy).

7. Reveals sin. Romans 7:7.

7. Prescribes offerings for sins. (See book of Leviticus).

8. Breaking of “the law” is “sin”. 1 John 3:4.

8. No sin in breaking, for now “abolished”. Ephesians 2:15.
(Where no law is, there is no transgression. Romans 4:15.)

9. Should “keep the whole law”. James 2:10.

9. Apostles gave “no such commandment” to “keep the law”. Acts 15:24.

10. Because we “shall be judged” by this law. James 2:12

10. Not to be judged by it. Colossians 2:16.

11. The Christian who keeps this law is “blessed in his deed”. James 1:25.

11. The Christian who keeps this law is not blessed.
(See for example, Galatians 5:1-6).

12. “The perfect law of liberty”. James 1:25 (Cf. James 2:12).

12. The Christian who keeps this law loses his liberty. Galatians 5:1, 3.

13. Paul said, “I delight in the law of God”. Romans 7:22 (Cf. verse 7).

13. Paul called this law a “yoke of bondage”.
Galatians 5:1; Galatians 4:3, 9 (See Acts
15:10).

14. Established by faith in Christ. Romans 3:31.

14. Abolished by Christ. Ephesians 2:15.

15. Christ was to “magnify the law and make it honorable”. Isaiah 42:21.

15. Blotted “out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us”. Colossians 2:14.

Look what Jesus said about the Law.

Matthew 5:12-18 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. 13 Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men. 14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. 17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Fulfill=
1. To bring into actuality; effect: fulfilled their promises.
2. To carry out (an order, for example).
3. To measure up to; satisfy. See Synonyms at perform, satisfy.
4. To bring to an end; complete.

Until what time has Jesus said that nothing, absolutely nothing should be taken away from the Law, not even one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law?

His Death? His resurrection? NO. He said until heaven and earth pass.

Is Paul and Jesus saying different things or contradicting each other? absolutely not. Jesus is talking about the Moral Law here.

Look what Paul said about the law?

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man.

Look a comparison between the Moral Law and God's character.

» Romans 16:26: God is Eternal
» Psalm 111:7-8: The law is Eternal

» Luke 18:19: God is Good
» Romans 7:12: The law is Good

» I John 1:5: God is Light
» Proverbs 6:23: The law is Light

» John 4:24: God is Spiritual
» Romans 7:14: The law is Spiritual

» Deuteronomy 32:4: God is Just
» Romans 7:12: The law is Just

» Psalms 48:1 : God is Great
» Hosea 8:12: The law is Great

» Psalm 145:17: God is Righteous
» Psalm 119:172: The law is Righteous

» 1 John 3:3: God is Pure
» Psalms 19:8: The law is Pure

» Deuteronomy 32:4: God is Truth
» Psalm 119:142: The law is Truth

» Matthew 5:48: God is Perfect
» Psalm 19:7: The law is Perfect

» I John 4:8: God is Love
» Romans 13:10: The law is Love

» Isaiah 5:16: God is Holy
» Romans 7:12: The law is Holy

Let us be very careful when we refer to God's Law and we call it bondage, for The Law reflects the Caracter of God.

Under no circunstance the Apostle Paul would refer to The Righteous Law of God and say that it puts you into bondage, Absolutely not.

God bless us All......

Hi there Phil, nice to hear from you again...

I will try to answear your two messages in this one.

First you mentioned the fact the Sabbath is the same word in the OT and NT. and then you asked: Is there a Sabbath day that you have to observe and onother that you don't have?

Absolutely, We have the Weekly Sabbath, the one that God blessed and sanctified since the beginning. but also there are a few other Sabbaths that the Jew was required to observe.

Here they are.

This is the Weekly Sabbath.

Deuteronomy 5:12-14 Keep the sabbath day to sanctify it, as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee. 13 Six days thou shalt labour, and do all thy work: 14 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy manservant and thy maidservant may rest as well as thou.

Note that we are talking about the Seventh day.

This is a different Sabbath.

Leviticus 16:29-31 And this shall be a statute for ever unto you: that in the seventh month, on the tenth day of the month, ye shall afflict your souls, and do no work at all, whether it be one of your own country, or a stranger that sojourneth among you: 30 For on that day shall the priest make an atonement for you, to cleanse you, that ye may be clean from all your sins before the LORD. 31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.

Another one.

Leviticus 23:24-25 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. 25 Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD.

Leviticus 23:39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath.

Leviticus 23:32-33 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath. 33 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying.

Can you see the difference.

One Sabbath was the Weekly Sabbath, God blessed it and Sanctified it. These other Sabbaths were Shadows of things to Come, Jesus Christ.

These were Ceremonial Sabbaths, Pointing to Christ. But once Christ died for us, then he nailed it to the Cross all these ceremonials that were required to clease us from our sins. it is not required anymore, we don't have to sacrifice an animal to cleanse our sins, Jesus blood cleanse our sins, he is our atonement.

If you read all the ceremonials that the Jews had to perform constantly you can understand why moses said that the book of the law was against them. I cannot imagine ceremony after ceremony, but we rest all of this in Jesus Christ, he is the perfect Sacrifice everything that these ceremonials represented we have it in Jesus.

And that is why when Paul talks Says:

Colossians 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Meat, Ceremonial; Drink, Ceremonial; in respect of a holyday, Ceremonial; New Moon, Ceremonial; Sabbaths, Ceremonial Sabbaths;

Everthing that Paul mentions here is from the Ceremonial Law, for him to be talking about the ceremonial law and then the last item he would put the weekly Sabbath, it just doesn't make sense. it doesn't fit in the context.

Now Let's say that Paul is talking about the ceremonial sabbaths.

I can see his point, because I can imagine preachers of Judaism trying to make people observe all of these ceremonials. They were so stuck in these ceremonials laws that they started imposing these on the new converts to Christ.

I do not keep these ceremonial Sabbaths, because Jesus fulfilled all that, nailing it on the cross.

Paul goes on saying.

Colossians 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances.

what are these oredinances that Paul is talking about? isn't it the Ceremonial law contained in the book of ordinances.

I believe that the Sabbath of the Ten Commandments was, is ans always will be very important to God and I believe that if Paul, Through the Holy Spirit, was saying that the weekly Sabbath was not binding anymore he would probably have written a whole Letter(book) on this issue not just mentioned it among a list of ordinances.
The Sabbath is so important to God that he put it as a sigh between us and his, for us to know that He is the one who Sanctifies us. Isaiah says that all flesh will gather on the Sabbath day to worship Him in the new heavens and in the new earths.

Isaiah 66:22-23 or as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain. 23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

I hope I answeared the fact that there are differents Sabbaths.

You asked:
"Let me ask you this. what do you do to someone who is in prison around the world for the faith and is doing forced labor 7 days a week?? what about the man who is a slave and they must serve their master everyday with no rest day??"

I am glad you asked this. I will answer you by using bible texts, Not my opinion.

We know that the Israelites were slaves in Egypt. Nowhere in the bible is mentioned that they kept the Sabbath when they were Slaves. When you are in bondage you cannot kekep the Sabbath, the Sabbath is for people who are free of bondage.

Look what the bible says:

Deuteronomy 5:15 Remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Look what the New king james version say:

Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

Now God took them out of Egypt, after crossing the red sea to a safe place. Where they felt free then God said I will give you a Day where it will be for your rest, they had no idea what rest was.

In the mount Sinai, God said:

Exodus 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Why would God say Remember? you can only remember something that you heard before or practised before, so it tells me must have been something practised before, don't you agree?

Deuteronomy 5:15 Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

Now what is God telling them to remember here. Not the Sabbath but the fact that they were slaves and because he set them free, then he (((((commanded)))))) them

When God said that the Sabbath is a sign between me and you. I Believe that when I worship him on the Sabbath, I aknowledge that fact that He is my creator, Because he blessed that Sabbath day and sanctified it since creation. I have set you free to Worship me when I want you to worship me, not any day, not any time.(it doen't mean that we shouldn't worship everyday everywhere) but it means that he set aside a day for that, so I aknowledge him as my saviour, for he saved me from slavery. When he provided the Mana to Israel, He is saying to us, You are free, because I set you free, and you will have everything you need, because I am your provider, and somewhere along the week he will provide us with double portion, just like he did on the day prior to the sabbath.

I will say it again.

Deuteronomy 5:15 Remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

The question you asked me about the prisioner and the slave. God is righteous and in him there is no evil, so when we stand judgements,

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I don't think I could comment on how God will judge people as such, but one thing I can say, He is righteous, Just and Loving.

You said:

"correct me if i am wrong, but didn't he go into the synagogues to discuss with the jews whether Jesus was the Christ?? didn't he go into the synagogues to persuade the people for Christ?? maybe i'm mistaken, but i don't think i am."

Please read this text:

Acts 13:14-16 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. 16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.

Seems to me that he is preaching on the Sabbath day.

Acts 13:17-27 The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it. 18 And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness. 19 And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Chanaan, he divided their land to them by lot. 20 And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet. 21 And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years. 22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. 23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: 24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. 25 And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose. 26 Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. 27 For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him.

In this passage I see that Paul went to the Synagogue and sat down. then Paul preached.

Another one:

Acts 13:42-44 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. 44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

It tells me that Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
It is pretty clear to me, that Paul was preaching on the Sabbath, and not arguing to try to convince anybody.

Acts 13:44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.

No arguments here either.....

Acts 16:13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.

In another translation..

Acts 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there.

It tells me that there was a regular meeting on the Sabbath day, and he we sat down and spoke to the women who met there. We Know that Paul made his living not as a preacher, he had a source of income . The fact that going to the synagogues to preach on the Sabbath, it tells me that he did not labour on the sabbath day.

Acts 17:2 And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures.

And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

In here it tell me that he reasoned with them. but what we have to pay attention here is, the fact that going to the the synagogue on the Sabbath was his manner. on the Second verse as well. he went there Every Sabbath.

I think Paul set the example. The Gospel os Jesus Christ is not somthing to please people in a sense that it adjusts to people customs, if it wasn't required anymore Paul would not have set the example as to tell us that it was his manner, his habit, his custom to attent the synagogues on the Sabbath.

You Quoted:

The true gospel can be spoken to anyone at anytime in any circumstance. if it is only true of certain people or a certain group today, then we messed up somewhere.

I am not sure what you meant here. Are you saying that because the Majority don't do a certain thing it automatically means that they are correct? I totally disagree with that.

I have said this before I will say it again, this is my interpretation of this verse. I do not want to offend anybody but Jesus said

Matthew 7:12-14 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets. 13 " Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 "Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Jesus is very clear here, very very feel enter the gate that leads to eternal life...

Jesus goes on saying

Matthew 7:21 " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

what is the will of the Father?

I think this is the most import question that we as Christian should be asking ourselves.

What is the will of the Father?

Matthew 7:22-29 22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' 24 " Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: 25 "and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. 26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: 27 "and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall." 28 And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching, 29 for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

If I understood you well, Then yes, then we messed up somewhere. for Jesus said, very few enter the narrow gate. where does the gate take you? eternal life.....

and to have eternal life, what do we need to do?

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

God bless you Phil

I am sorry if I made mistakes but I did not have much time to write this.

Dear friend,

Thank you for you reply.

Let me see if I understood what you wrote.

You agree that The Ten Commandments are still binding to us.

You said that The Sabbath was something for the Jew but way before Israel was a nation God had blessed the seventh day and sanctified it.

You mentioned the fact the Jesus did many miracles on the Sabbath just show the Pharisees the the Sabbath is a day of rejoycing, a day to promote happiness to others, a special day where we should not worry about man made laws to turn the holy day of the Lord into something God never intended his holy day to be.

You know, God created all the other days of the week and to him from the First Day to the Sixth day they were all the same. Creation as usual, but then on the seventh day God blessed it and he sanctified it. It was so important to Him the he gave a special name. The Sabbath is the only day on the bible that has a special name, other then an ordinal number, you might say that Sixth day was called Preparation Day, but again it was a name that pointed to the Sabbath.

You Quoted:

"We keep the Sabbath on Sunday (I don't want to start another discussion on which day you are supposed to worship on, it just makes it clearer for what I am going to say next). Now I understand that you can probably get legalistic about how you keep the Sabbath holy, but as long as you stay with the Scriptures you should be safe. We try not to buy or sell on Sunday, and we also try not to work on unnecessary things on that day (mowing the lawn, repairing the dishwasher, etc. - things that could easily be done on some other day"

I just don't understand this part of your message.

You agree the Sabbath is the seventh day, you agree it is still binding and yet you believe in keeping the First Day of the week.

Please read these texts....

Genesis 4:1-6 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain, and said, "I have acquired a man from the LORD." 2 Then she bore again, this time his brother Abel. Now Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. 3 And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the LORD. 4 Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering, 5 but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell. 6 So the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen?

And he goes on....

Genesis 4:7 "If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it."

I ask you, What was so bad about Cain's offerings that God did not Respect it?
Cain was a tiller of the ground and he probably offered God the best he had, but the bible tells us that, God did not respect his offerings, Why???? The bible doesn't go into details as to why of the rejection, but I believe that God must have told them what pleased him, the sort of offerings that was acceptable to him, but Cain thought that maybe his way of doing it was also ok, at the end of the day, he was offering his best.

Look what John says:

1 John 3:12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.

The bible only mentions the fact they both brought an offering to God and God rejected Cain, but John is quite mean to Cain. Calling Cain evil and Abel righteous. Doesn't that make you wonder why God couldn't just have accepted Cain's offer, that would have saved so much trouble, and because of it Cain became the first murderer.

Look the story of Moses..

Exodus 17:5-6 nd the LORD said to Moses, "Go on before the people, and take with you some of the elders of Israel. Also take in your hand your rod with which you struck the river, and go. 6 "Behold, I will stand before you there on the rock in Horeb; and you shall strike the rock, and water will come out of it, that the people may drink." And Moses did so in the sight of the elders of Israel.

But the second time around God told moses the same thing but look what he did...

Numbers 20:8-12 Take the rod; you and your brother Aaron gather the congregation together. Speak to the rock before their eyes, and it will yield its water; thus you shall bring water for them out of the rock, and give drink to the congregation and their animals." 9 So Moses took the rod from before the LORD as He commanded him. 10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock; and he said to them, "Hear now, you rebels! Must we bring water for you out of this rock?" 11 Then Moses lifted his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod; and water came out abundantly, and the congregation and their animals drank. 12 Then the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, "Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them."

God Told Moses to Talk to the rock but moses Hit the rock twice, and because of that God told him,

Numbers 20:12 Then the LORD spoke to Moses and Aaron, "Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them."

One might say" Wow, he should have talked to the Rock but instead he hit it. What is the big deal?" The big deal was that He did not halloed God by obeying Him and that prevented Moses from going into the promised land.

God takes his commandments very seriously, Because Moses didn't obey just as he had commanded he Says: "Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel"

Is God saying that by obeying his commands we hallow him, we sanctify him.

Now you might say, I know about the sabbath. I know it is the seventh day but I choose to keep the First Day of the week.

Dear friend you are putting yourself in a very dangerous place. And what makes it even worse if the fact that you know what is correct.

Hebrews 3:8-11 8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness, 9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. 10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' 11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.' "

After accepting Jesus as your only saviour the most important thing in the life of a Christian is to learn "His Ways". Because Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments.

John 14:23-24 "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our home with him. 24 "He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father's who sent Me.

You Quoted:

"but as long as you stay with the Scriptures you should be safe"

You are absolutely right, but I would say:" if you stay with the Scriptures you will most definetely be safe."

One more thing, if you want to keep God's command's you have to go all the way, because if you fall in one you will have missed them all. You either accept the fact that the Sabbath is the seventh day, which is the Saturday and we should keep it holy, or you do not accept it, but you cannot accept it and decide to keep holy another day. it just doesn't make sense..

Please I don't want you to think that I am passing judgement on you. But should you think that I have offended you, please do forgive me....

Would love to know your comments on this..

Jayme

Hello ChrisJd.

You quoted:

" think one of the issues here is that the Ten Commandments are not a seperate part of the law and covenant which God gave to Moses, and that includes the 7th day Sabbath."

I Disagree with you, the issue here it the fact that God gave Israel two laws, one everlasting and one shadows of what is yet to come.

The Ten Commandments describes firstly our relationship with God and then it describes our relationship with others.

There is the law of ordinances, which was against us, it was nailed to the cross. this is the old covenant as it is described in here.

Hebrews 9:1-28 Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary. 2 For a tabernacle was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, the table, and the showbread, which is called the sanctuary; 3 and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All, 4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant; 5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail. 6 Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services. 7 But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people's sins committed in ignorance; 8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. 9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience -- 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation. 11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where there is a testament, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator. 17 For a testament is in force after men are dead, since it has no power at all while the testator lives. 18 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you." 21 Then likewise he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry. 22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission. 23 Therefore it was necessary that the copies of the things in the heavens should be purified with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Christ has not entered the holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us; 25 not that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters the Most Holy Place every year with blood of another -- 26 He then would have had to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now, once at the end of the ages, He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment, 28 so Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.

It is very clear here, Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary. Paul is talking about the ordinances, the Sacrificial ceremonies.

And it says,

Hebrews 9:18-20 Therefore not even the first covenant was dedicated without blood. 19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and goats, with water, scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, "This is the blood of the covenant which God has commanded you."

Sprinkled blood on the book itself and all the people. This is the book of the law that was against us. the same book the moses ordered to be put beside the ark of the covenant as a sign against us. The Ten commandments are not even mentioned here, why? because it was not part of the ordinances.

Hebrews 10:1-39 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. 2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. 3 But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins. 5 Therefore, when He came into the world, He said: "Sacrifice and offering You did not desire, But a body You have prepared for Me. 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin You had no pleasure. 7 Then I said, 'Behold, I have come -- In the volume of the book it is written of Me -- To do Your will, O God.' " 8 Previously saying, "Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them" (which are offered according to the law), 9 then He said, "Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God." He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10 By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. 15 But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before, 16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them," 17 then He adds, "Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." 18 Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin. 19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. 23 Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. 24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. 26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has rejected Moses' law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay," says the Lord. And again, "The LORD will judge His people." 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. 32 But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: 33 partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; 34 for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. 35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. 36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise: 37 "For yet a little while, And He who is coming will come and will not tarry. 38 Now the just shall live by faith; But if anyone draws back, My soul has no pleasure in him." 39 But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul.

Here is what the old and new covenants are all about. Nothing to do with the Ten Commandments.

We were delivered from the law of ordinances not the moral law.

Paul sayd:" Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. " there must be two laws, because one time he says that the law is Good, holy and just. but somewhere else he is not positive about it. How come?

Romans 7:25 I thank God -- through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Again two different laws. wouldn't you agree???/

Jayme

Dear brother Ron Halverson,

Quote:

"Again two different laws. wouldn't you agree???

I for one would not agree".

Ok. Let's go down this road. We have one Law.

Let's see what the Bible tell us about the law.

Proverbs 4:1-9 NKJ Proverbs 4:1 Hear, my children, the instruction of a father, And give attention to know understanding; 2 For I give you good doctrine: Do not forsake my law. 3 When I was my father's son, Tender and the only one in the sight of my mother, 4 He also taught me, and said to me: "Let your heart retain my words; Keep my commands, and live. 5 Get wisdom! Get understanding! Do not forget, nor turn away from the words of my mouth. 6 Do not forsake her, and she will preserve you; Love her, and she will keep you. 7 Wisdom is the principal thing; Therefore get wisdom. And in all your getting, get understanding. 8 Exalt her, and she will promote you; She will bring you honor, when you embrace her. 9 She will place on your head an ornament of grace; A crown of glory she will deliver to you."

Romans 7:11-25 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good. 13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God -- through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

""""Has Paul just Talked about two different laws? For The Law of God cannot be the same as the Law of sin""""

I do not believe the Prophets, Jesus himself and The Apostles, would once say that the Same Law is holy, is just and good and then in another place say that the same law is a curse. It doens't make sense.

You cannot do away with the Law. Paul clearly says that it is through the Law that sin is revealed.

Romans 3:9-20 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin. 10 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one." 13 "Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps is under their lips"; 14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness." 15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways; 17 And the way of peace they have not known." 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes." 19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

We already have established that no one is Justified by the law, and only by the blood of Jesus. So, please do not say that we that keep the Ten commandment are trying to get justification through the Law, because that is not what the Ten commandments is about. We keep his commandments because Jesus said if you love me you will keep my commandments. Whose Commandments? Jesus or God's Commandments? Jesus clearly said that his words are not his, but from the One who sent him.

John 7:16 Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me.

I have one question for you. Prior to come to Jesus how did you know you were a sinner? and that you needed God's grace to get rid of your sins? How was sin revealed to you?

Now, then, You have accepted Jesus as your saviour, you are a new creature. Does it mean that you can go on doing the same things as you did before, so grace may abound?

Romans 6:1-2 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

You can say whatever you want in regard to the law.

Quote:

Thank God that the Lord Jesus Christ has rendered the Law of Moses inoperative and those who are in Christ are no longer under any bit of its authority! Christ is indeed the end of the law. The Law of Moses was temporary, it could not supercede the covenant made with Abraham which was fulfilled in Jesus Christ. Glory to the Lamb of God!

I am not sure what you really mean with this. Are you saying that you live your life without any law? How do you know that you have sinned and that you need to repent and confess your sins? Or you don't sin anymore. because if you don't have the law to reveal your sin, how is sin revealed to you?

Jesus Said:

"Matthew 5:13-19 You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt loses its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? It is then good for nothing but to be thrown out and trampled underfoot by men. 14 "You are the light of the world. A city that is set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 "Nor do they light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. 17 " Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

The Same commandment that you saying Jesus did away, he is saying here that nothing should be taken away Until Heaven and Earth pass away.

I would love to know what you think of these question.

Are you saying that you live your life without any law? How do you know that you have sinned and that you need to repent and confess your sins? Or you don't sin anymore. because if you don't have the law to reveal your sin, how is sin revealed to you?

God bless us all....

Hi, you have written two messages and I will try to answear them separatelly.

Quote:

" why is it that the Apostles worshipped on the first day of the week instead of on the customary seventh day of the week?"

I have never found this statement in my bible. Where in the bible I can find this statement?

Are you referring to this passage?

Acts 20:6-8 But we sailed away from Philippi after the Days of Unleavened Bread, and in five days joined them at Troas, where we stayed seven days. 7 Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight. 8 There were many lamps in the upper room where they were gathered together.

Becauuse if it is then We have to stablish what break bread really mean?

I have a few verses for you to read....

(Lamentations 4:4)"...The young children ask for bread, But no one breaks it for them."

(Mark 8:19)"When I broke the five loaves for the five thousand…" (Mark 8:19)

In reference to Paul on the Alexandrian ship to Italy:
Acts 27:35 And when he had said these things, he took bread and gave thanks to God in the presence of them all; and when he had broken it he began to eat.

Luke 24:34-37 "The Lord is risen indeed, and has appeared to Simon!" 35 And they told about the things that had happened on the road, and how He was known to them in the breaking of bread. 36 Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, "Peace to you." 37 But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit.

Acts 2:46-47 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

Acts 2:46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart,

They were breaking bread from house to house. In all the texts above I cannot see how you could understand that you are supposed to Keep the first day of the Week because the disciples came together, after the unlevened bread, and broke bread. Could it be that break bread means just to eat....

Here is the thesaurus defition of the word break bread.

To break bread = To eat.

Now I will give you proof that not only Paul went to the synagogues on the Sabbath(Seventh Day) but Jesus did as well.

Mark 1:17-22 Then Jesus said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you become fishers of men." 18 They immediately left their nets and followed Him. 19 When He had gone a little farther from there, He saw James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother, who also were in the boat mending their nets. 20 And immediately He called them, and they left their father Zebedee in the boat with the hired servants, and went after Him. 21 Then they went into Capernaum, and immediately on the Sabbath He entered the synagogue and taught. 22 And they were astonished at His teaching, for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

Mark 6:2 And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue. And many hearing Him were astonished, saying, "Where did this Man get these things? And what wisdom is this which is given to Him, that such mighty works are performed by His hands!

Luke 13:10 Now He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath.

Look at this...

Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.

It was Jesus custom to be at the synagogue on the Sabbath Day, not first day, Sabbath Day.

Look Paul just imitating Jesus....

Acts 13:14-16 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. 15 And after the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, "Men and brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on." 16 Then Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said, "Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen.

Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.

When is the Gentiles asking Paul to preach to them? yes, on the following SAbbath, not first day.. Go on reading and you will see what happen in the next SAbbath...

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.

I think I have made my point. Jesus and his disciples and the Apostle Paul had the same Custom to go to the synagogue on the Sabbath. it is repeated time and time again all throughout the scriptures and very clearly. but then Some, because there is a verse saying the Paul broke bread with the disciples on the first day, We assume that somehow Paul was telling us to have fellowship on the first day.

Paul goes to the Synagogue on the Sabbath, and please do not say that it was because he was trying to persuade the Jews, because in one of the verses above says that the Gentiles were there as well they ask Paul to preach for them in the next Sabbath.

Please if the reason why we should go on the first day is other than the one I have mentioned above, please do let me know because I have searched my bible all over to find evidence to it but just cannot find. I would love to know where did Paul showed us or commanded us that.

Please do let me know....

May the Lord of the SAbbath alse be the Lord of our lives.

Jayme

Hi again I will try to comment of your second message...

Quote:
"Do I understand correctly that you believe part of the Ten Commandments to be revelant and part not?"

Absolutelly not. The Ten Commandments reflects the character of God. which is Love. every single commandment God gave us on the Ten Commandments talks about Love.

The first four commandments.

The Love that we have to demostrate towards him.

If you Love Him.
1-You shall have no other Gods but me.

If you Love Him.
2-You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it.

If you Love Him
3-You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

If you Love Him
4- Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Now These are the commandments regarding how we Show love to Him, that Created us.

The Six other Commandments talks about our love towards our fellow men.

Look what John says:

1 John 4:21 And this commandment we have from Him: that he who loves God must love his brother also.

John is very clear, if we love our brothers we are demonstrating Love to God. So God Gave us six Commandments to show us how to love our brothers and if we observe these commandments we are loving God by loving our brothers.

Here they are...

If you Love God, you will.
5-Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.

If you love God, you will
6-not murder.

If you love God, you will
7-not commit adultery.

If you love God, you
8-not steal.

If you Love God, you will
9-not bear false witness against your neighbor.

If you love God, you will
10- not covet your neighbor's house; or nothing that belongs to him.

I agree with you that the law of Love(Ten commandments) is as important to God then as it is now. For in God there is no shadow of changing.

I don't understand why people think that the Ten commandments are void, cause they are perfect.
If a whole country would have these then commandments they would bring heaven down here on earth. everybody would love everybody and respect everybody, and most of all everybody would love God the way he commanded us. and what does God say to those who keeps his commandments? He says, you truly Love me. If you love me you keep my commandments..

Please do read the passages the show you clearly that Jesus and Paul went to the synagogues on the Sabbath(seventh day). I would love to see your comments on them.....

I love this passage from James.
To those who think the apostle Paul said that the Sabbath is no longer binding....

James 4:12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy.

God bless us all

Hi there brother.

Quote: "Paul's point here is that until a man receives the gospel of Christ he will remain captive".

Romans 7:25 I thank God -- through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin."

Dear brother I suggest you read the passage again. To me is very clear that Paul was talking about himself, about his condition at the time. Right there and then.

He said, Through Jesus Christ our Lord! I serve these two laws....

So, your claim that Paul's point to someone that hasn't received the gospel of Christ, to me it is not Correct. Paul is talking about two laws the he serves. He clearly says that he is under these two laws.

My question to you is, what is the Law of God that Paul says he serves? To me he clearly says that there is a law of God and he serves it.. Or am I wrong?

Quote:

1) "This is a straw man, the law itself is not a curse, it does however proclaim a curse on all who would seek to live by it and fail(Gal 3:10).

My Comment:

Paul is talking to those who thought that by being under the law (Ten Commandments and ceremonial law) they would be justified. and Paul is very clear when he said that if we could be justified by our works, we would have reason to boast. So, to level the field, not flesh shall be justified by their own works, but by faith in the Son of God. But as I said before once Jesus Died for us, the sacrificial laws and ceremonies were fulfilled, therefore are no longer binding to us, if we have Jesus as our heavenly priest, the perfect sacrifice, why would we want to be under the ceremonial law like some of them wanted to be and preach to the new converts. This is the new covenant that Jesus talks about, he has offered the perfect sacrifice for us and through his blood and body our sins are forgiven. But the perfect Law of God is the only guidence that we have to reveal our sins.

The problem here is that everytime the word law is mentioned we all assume that it if refering to the Ten Commandments. and it is not.

Quote: Also, it may be helpful to consider all the purpose of the Law. The Law has several purposes and they are brought out in different places.

First it is a revelation of the Holiness of God and the righteous standard for communion with Him. Of course we know that it is not a means of salvation, Isreal had already been redeemed from Egypt, so it was not given in order to redeem them.

My comment: You got this one spot on.

When I talk about the Law, I want you to understand that I am refering to the Ten Commandment. The one on tablets of stones. Not the book of the Law containing the ordinances.

You got this one spot on.

Quote: Second, it was meant as a rule of life for the Old Testament believer.

My comment:

It is a set of rules for all believers, Paul said that God is the same God to the Jew and Gentiles.

Romans 3:29-31 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Quote: Third it was to keep Israel seperate from the world.

My Comment:

It is to keep all believers in Jesus Christ from the World, to separate us, to show the world how we relate to our God and how we relate to our brothers...

Quote: Fourth it was to provide set times for individual and corporate worship.

My Comment:

It still sets apart a day in which we have to keep holy and in that day we do have to have fellowship with likeminded believers.

Quote: The fifth purpose was to reveal sin as pointed out in three places in Romans (3:19-20 ; 5:20; 7:7)

My comment: it still reveals our sins, Just like Paul says, with my mind I serve the law of God but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. with my mind I wanto to sanctify God but with the desires of my flesh I sin against the Holy One. but we have a faithful priest in heaven, and if we confess our sins he will forgive them, and will remember them no more.

Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?
Romans 6:2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

Quote: Sixth, the law actually is to make a person sin more (Romans 4:15 ; 5:20).
Paul explains this in Romans 7 and 1 Corinthians 15:16 where he wrote the power of sin is the law.

My comment:

You got this one totally wrong.

Let see the bible texts that you mentioned.

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "You shall not covet."

How is the Law making you sin more? The law does not make you do anything. it shows you what is right and what is wrong, but it is your choice to go against it, therefore causing you to sin. How can the law possibly make you sin? but it does reveal sin to you. and that is exactly what Paul is saying here. he would not have known that to covet was a sin except through the law. Is the law making Paul covet? not at all. if he is, that is his choice therefore his sin.

1 Corinthians 15:16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.

My comment: You must have written the wrong verse cause it does not fit the context that we are talking here. we have established that only by faith we are justified. Here Paul is talking about faith that Jesus died and raised up again. And he goes on saying that if Jesus did not raise then our faith in him is in vain, and if we believe that we are justified through his blood them, yes we are still in are sins. We are talking about the law.......

Quote: Where there is no law there is no transgression. He didn't mean there was no sin before the law, just that it gave the sin nature a base of operation.

My Comment: I disagree with this nature of operation. To me the law establishes that there is sin, and We know that God hates sin. So Through the law we can learn what what sort of life God wants us to live, but if we go against his commandments, by our decision, then we have sinned.

Proverbs 6:16-35 These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him: 17 A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood, 18 A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil, 19 A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren. 20 My son, keep your father's command, And do not forsake the law of your mother. 21 Bind them continually upon your heart; Tie them around your neck. 22 When you roam, they will lead you; When you sleep, they will keep you; And when you awake, they will speak with you. 23 For the commandment is a lamp, And the law a light; Reproofs of instruction are the way of life.

If God hadn't given us his Holy Law, we would not know that he hated these things.

Look what is said about sinners.

John 9:31 "Now we know that God does not hear sinners; but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does His will, He hears him.

1 John 5:1-4 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world -- our faith.

Quote: "Seventh, to lead us to faith in Christ.(Gal 3:24)."

My comment: absolutely spot on. but not only to lead us but to keep us in his faith.

Look what John says:

1 John 5:1-4 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world -- our faith.

My questions to you.

What is this law that paul is talking about in romans 3:31?

You said that you live by the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus which has set you free. what are these laws?

Where can I find them in the bible? HOw many laws are there?
does these law make you aware that you have sinned and that you need to confess and repent?

Jesus is very clear when he said that the word he said were not his, bot from the one who sent me. So I believe that when he says if you love me, you will keep my commangments, he was refering to God's commandments, or am I wrong? I do not think that God has a set of Laws and Jesus has another. for they are One, Father, Son and Holy spirit.

Please, I would like you to answer these questions individually if you have the time. I would like to know what are your views.

Are you saying that you live your life without any law?

How do you know that you have sinned and that you need to repent and confess your sins?

f you don't have the law to reveal your sin, how is sin revealed to you?

God bless us all...

Dear brother Inthelight.

I have asked you some questions, but you have not answeared them yet. I would love to see your comments on them?

Here they are again, for the third time.....

My questions to you.

What is this law that paul is talking about in romans 3:31?

You said that you live by the law of the spirit of life in Christ Jesus which has set you free. what are these laws?

Where can I find them in the bible? How many laws are there?
does these laws make you aware that you have sinned and that you need to confess and repent?

Jesus is very clear when he said that the word he said were not his, but from the one who sent him. So I believe that when he says if you love me, you will keep my commandments, he was refering to God's commandments, or am I wrong? does God has a set of Laws and Jesus has another? for they are One, Father, Son and Holy spirit.

Please, I would like you to answer these questions individually if you have the time. I would like to know what are your views.

How do you know that you have sinned and that you need to repent and confess your sins?

f you don't have the law to reveal your sin, how is sin revealed to you?

God Bless....

Dear Brother LoveHim.

Once more thank you for your message.

It is pretty clear to me that no matter how many times we mention the fact that there must be two different Laws. Almost everybody here doesn't seem to recognise it. Others recognise that there are two laws but they believe that the bible makes no distinction between them.

However, to me the Bible does make that distinction very clearly.

What do we call the Law of God?

The Ten Commandments.

But we also have the law moses gave Israel in the book of Law. It is very clear to me. Two laws.

Here the apostle Paul says,

Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

But in here.

Ephesians 2:15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace.

It is logically impossible for the Apostle Paul to say in one place that the law is Good, Just and Holy and in other places to say that it was a curse. and it was abolished. I just doesn't make any sense.

Here he clearly Tells us what law or part of the law that was abolished, abolished the Law of commandments contained in ordinances...

Look what Paul says here...

Hebrews 9:9-10 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience -- 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.

Now check this out...

Colossians 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths.

See the similarity... All ceremonials.

The Sabbaths that he mentions here has to be ceremonial sabbaths, for him to mention the weekly sabbath here would not make sense, it would be out of context. The weekly Sabbath is a Commandment, not a ceremony (The Sabbaths of the feasts of the Lord).

He repeats here.. Food, Drinks, and ceremonies imposed on them Until the Time of reformation.

What is this time of reformation he is talking about?

Here is another text that makes distinction between them...

Luke 1:5-6 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the division of Abijah. His wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elizabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Now the Law of ordinances, one can say it was against us. Can you imagine all the killings of the animals for sacrifice as an atonement for the sins of the people. and All the ceremonies that they had to obeserve, that was hard work and very bloody as well. I most definetely agree with Paul on that, and I thank God that he Sent his son to not only to put a stop on all that ceremonies. Ceremonies that were only shadows of things the were to come. Jesus gave Us a much better covenant. Before the priest was human and also sinned and had to offer sacrifices for his own sins,but Now I do not have to go to anyone But the Holy and perfect son of God to confess my sins And through his blood My sins are forgiven.

Hebrews 9:12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption.

I ask you, Jesus came to redeem us from...

the law that is holy, and from the commandment that is holy and just and good?

Look how the word redeem is used in this text..

Titus 2:12-14 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.

Just one more thing, My bible says:

Galatians 4:5 to redeem those who were under the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

I emphasize the fact that Paul said, redeem those who were under the Law.

He does not say: to redeem those from the law. What translation are you using that says """"from the law"...?????

My next question to you is, what does """under the Law"""""mean?

Let's see what the word under mean...

Under=

1 In a lower position or place than: a rug under a chair.
2 To or into a lower position or place than: rolled the ball under the couch.
3 Beneath the surface of: under the ground; swam under water.
4 Beneath the assumed surface or guise of: traveled under a false name.
5 Less than; smaller than: The jar's capacity is under three quarts.
6 Less than the required amount or degree of: under voting age.
7 Inferior to in status or rank: nine officers under me at headquarters.

\t8 Subject to the authority, rule, or control of: under a dictatorship.
\t9 Subject to the supervision, instruction, or influence of: under parental guidance.
\t10 Undergoing or receiving the effects of: under constant care.
\t11 Subject to the restraint or obligation of: under contract.

12 Within the group or classification of: listed under biology.
13 In the process of: under discussion.
14 In view of; because of: under these conditions.
15 With the authorization of: under the monarch's seal.
16 Sowed or planted with: an acre under oats.
17 Nautical Powered or propelled by: under sail; under steam.

Please pay attention 8/9/10/11.

How about we substitute the definition of ""under"" in that text.

Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were Subject to the authority, rule, or control of the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Again

Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were Subject to the supervision, instruction, or influence of the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Again.

Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were Undergoing or receiving the effects of the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

Galatians 4:4-5 But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the law, 5 to redeem those who were Subject to the restraint or obligation of the law, that we might receive the adoption as sons.

It is pretty clear to me here that the text tells me exactly the opposite that you are claiming...

Please do read this verse again look up the words, because I have dozens of bible translations and I did not find anywhere that says Jesus came to redeem us """""from"""" the Law. Please do not add words that should not be there........

God bless us all

Dear brother LoveHIm:

quote:

""do you realize that many people can keep the law of the 10 commandments and yet be an

idolator and adulteror and murderer in their heart. that is the problem with trying to

live by the law. it measures your outward acts, but does nothing about the heart. then

Jesus comes and begins to show us the spirit of the manner. He was further revealing

God's character and further explaining the heart of the issue""

I am tired of saying here that we that keep the ten commandments, are not trying

to get justified by our works, we can only be justified by faith, faith in the son of

God, but Everybody keeps repeating the same statement. Though I have mentioned

countless times, people still keep saying the same thing. Paul said if we could be

justified by our works we would have reason for boasting. But faith without works is

dead and works without faith is dead, you cannot have one and not have the other, for

they go along together.

You are saying that one can keep the ten commandment and still be all of that.

I ask you,

how about you? you that think the Ten commandments are no longer binding, are you

saying that you are free from commiting murder, adultery in your heart. why is that?

because you do not have the law to tell you that murder is a sin and so is adultery in

your heart?

What law do you live by?

you must have some laws to show you what is right and what is wrong.

I just don't understand how your logic work. I keep the commandments by I commit murder

in my heart. How does that work? how can you keep something and break it at the same

time? it tells me that you did not keep it in the first place.

quote:

""it measures your outward acts, but does nothing about the heart.""

brother, if you say that you have met Jesus Christ, and you heart hasn't changed, it

tells me that you did not meet him at all. Having said that, When you meet Jesus and

you have a change of heart, then you want to submit yourself to his commandments,

because you want to love him, you cannot meet HIm and not desire to love him, it is

impossible. He said: if you love me you will keep my commandments..

I will tell you what I believe:
You have to have the work of the Holy Spirit in your heart in order recognise that

Jesus is Lord of all. That he Died for you and that there is no salvation any other

way. there is no salvation in any other name.

But then we are told that we have to be holy for God is holy, How do I get from the

state of sin that once my life was into the state of being holy, if not by obeying his

laws and commandments....

What Did God say about sanctification?

2 Thessalonians 2:12 - 3:1 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the

truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 13 But we are bound to give thanks to God

always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you

for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14 to

which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus

Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast and hold the traditions which you were

taught, whether by word or our epistle. 16 Now may our Lord Jesus Christ Himself, and

our God and Father, who has loved us and given us everlasting consolation and good hope

by grace, 17 comfort your hearts and establish you in every good word and work.

Who are being sanctified ??

Hebrews 10:12-14 But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever,

sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from that time waiting till His enemies are made

His footstool. 14 For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being

sanctified.

Hebrews 2:10-13 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are

all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation

perfect through sufferings. 11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being

sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren,

12 saying: "I will declare Your name to My brethren; In the midst of the assembly I

will sing praise to You." 13 And again: "I will put My trust in Him." And again: "Here

am I and the children whom God has given Me."

2 Timothy 2:19-26 "Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity."

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood

and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses

himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the

Master, prepared for every good work. 22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue

righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And

a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,

25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them

repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses

and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.

who sanctifies us???

Exodus 31:13-14 "Speak also to the children of Israel, saying: 'Surely My Sabbaths you

shall keep, for it is a sign between Me and you throughout your generations, that you

may know that I am the LORD who sanctifies you. 14 'You shall keep the Sabbath,

therefore, for it is holy to you.

Leviticus 20:8 And you shall keep My statutes, and perform them: I am the LORD who

sanctifies you.

Leviticus 22:32 You shall not profane My holy name, but I will be hallowed among the

children of Israel. I am the LORD who sanctifies you,

Is God not very happy here????? who sanctifies us?

Ezekiel 20:11-14 And I gave them My statutes and showed them My judgments, 'which, if

a man does, he shall live by them.' 12 "Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a

sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.

13 "Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in

My statutes; they despised My judgments, 'which, if a man does, he shall live by them';

and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in

the wilderness, to consume them. 14 "But I acted for My name's sake, that it should

not be profaned before the Gentiles, in whose sight I had brought them out.

Quote:

""""""all the other 9 commandments were re-emphasized many times over in the NT, but

obeying a weekly sabbath never once is commanded. in fact a few verses (like colossians

2) show us that we are not under that anymore.""""

Throught the whole old testmanet, Israel were Punished severely for idolatry and for

the breaking of the sabbath.
Fist God gave us the Sabbath as a memorial of his creation, for us to remember that he

is the creator. then when israel was free again he told them to remember it because it

was a sign between them and God. God wanted them to REst of his Holy Day but we even

refused God's offering of rest.
Then God Got really seriously about it, and he was willing to kill those who would not

obey it. Again out of his great mercy and for the sake os his holy name. he did not

destroy the whole of Israel.

Ezekiel 20:11-14 And I gave them My statutes and showed them My judgments, 'which, if

a man does, he shall live by them.' 12 "Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a

sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.

13 "Yet the house of Israel rebelled against Me in the wilderness; they did not walk in

My statutes; they despised My judgments, 'which, if a man does, he shall live by them';

and they greatly defiled My Sabbaths. Then I said I would pour out My fury on them in

the wilderness, to consume them. 14 "But I acted for My name's sake, that it should

not be profaned before the Gentiles, in whose sight I had brought them out.

The stories in the old testament are there to show us that if we rebel against God

there will be consequences, but we are willing to to things our way. The sabbath had

being stablished since creation and even with all the trials israel went through for

breaking these very laws, we assume that God somehow forgot his commandments.

The way I see it all throught the new testament there are clues to tell us that the

SAbbath is still binding. but we refused to see it.

You quote:

"""""""""why did paul go and preach on the sabbath?? to testify of Christ. he did try

to persuade the jews that Jesus was the Christ. in one of your posts back to me on this

question, even one of your verses say that he talked to them to persuade them of

Christ. jayme, if you were paul and you wanted to preach and testify about Jesus, what

day would you pick?? a random day or a day where you knew people were gathered meeting

and reading the OT?? i would pick the sabbath as well so i could talk and preach and

reason with them about Jesus.""""""

I have given you quite a few verses that tell me the sabbath was kept I will post them

again.. but you choose to base all your comments on one verse that mentions Paul

persuading the jews of the SAbbath, what about all other verses. Can you comment on

them as well....
_______________________________________________________________________________________
I will put the one you like first....But note that the Greeks were there as well so it

tells me that the Gentiles were attending on the SAbbath.

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and

Greeks.

_______________________________________________________________________________________
Acts 16:12-15 and from there to Philippi, which is the foremost city of that part of

Macedonia, a colony. And we were staying in that city for some days. 13 And on the

Sabbath day we went out of the city to the riverside, where prayer was customarily

made; and we sat down and spoke to the women who met there. 14 Now a certain woman

named Lydia heard us. She was a seller of purple from the city of Thyatira, who

worshiped God. The Lord opened her heart to heed the things spoken by Paul. 15 And

when she and her household were baptized, she begged us, saying, "If you have judged me

to be faithful to the Lord, come to my house and stay." So she persuaded us.

In this passage, I gather that:

The prayers were costumarily made on the sabbath and out of the city, it was not even

in the Synagogues. No jews involved. How about that......
_______________________________________________________________________________________

This is an interesting one....

The famous Jerusalem meeting.....When was the scripture being read for generations?

Acts 15:17-22 So that the rest of mankind may seek the LORD, Even all the Gentiles who

are called by My name, Says the LORD who does all these things.' 18 "Known to God from

eternity are all His works. 19 "Therefore I judge that we should not trouble those

from among the Gentiles who are turning to God, 20 "but that we write to them to

abstain from things polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from things strangled,

and from blood. 21 "For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him

in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath." 22 Then it pleased the

apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to

Antioch with Paul and Barnabas, namely, Judas who was also named Barsabas, and Silas,

leading men among the brethren.

If the sabbath was no longer binding, I think this would be the time where the Apostles

would openly declare it. for something so important to God, the Sabbath, They would

probably dedicate a whole book in the bible to explain why the sabbath would no longer

be binding to us.

The Sabbath was not even mentioned here, why not, because it was no longer

important???? I beg to disagree. It was not mentioned because it was something that God

hallowed in the beginning, it was not a point of disagreament among the believers. they

all understood that the Sabbath is the day of rest. No disagreament, not need to

discuss it... But they mentioned the fact the moses was read in the synagogues every

sabbath......

_______________________________________________________________________________________
Acts 13:14-52 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and

went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day and sat down. 15 And after the reading of

the Law and the Prophets, the rulers of the synagogue sent to them, saying, "Men and

brethren, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say on." 16 Then Paul

stood up, and motioning with his hand said, "Men of Israel, and you who fear God,

listen: 17 "The God of this people Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people

when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an uplifted arm He brought

them out of it. 18 "Now for a time of about forty years He put up with their ways in

the wilderness. 19 "And when He had destroyed seven nations in the land of Canaan, He

distributed their land to them by allotment. 20 "After that He gave them judges for

about four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet. 21 "And afterward they

asked for a king; so God gave them Saul the son of Kish, a man of the tribe of

Benjamin, for forty years. 22 "And when He had removed him, He raised up for them

David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, 'I have found David the son of

Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.' 23 "From this man's seed,

according to the promise, God raised up for Israel a Savior -- Jesus -- 24 "after John

had first preached, before His coming, the baptism of repentance to all the people of

Israel. 25 "And as John was finishing his course, he said, 'Who do you think I am? I

am not He. But behold, there comes One after me, the sandals of whose feet I am not

worthy to loose.' 26 "Men and brethren, sons of the family of Abraham, and those among

you who fear God, to you the word of this salvation has been sent. 27 "For those who

dwell in Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they did not know Him, nor even the

voices of the Prophets which are read every Sabbath, have fulfilled them in condemning

Him. 28 "And though they found no cause for death in Him, they asked Pilate that He

should be put to death. 29 "Now when they had fulfilled all that was written

concerning Him, they took Him down from the tree and laid Him in a tomb. 30 "But God

raised Him from the dead. 31 "He was seen for many days by those who came up with Him

from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are His witnesses to the people. 32 "And we declare to

you glad tidings -- that promise which was made to the fathers. 33 "God has fulfilled

this for us their children, in that He has raised up Jesus. As it is also written in

the second Psalm: 'You are My Son, Today I have begotten You.' 34 "And that He raised

Him from the dead, no more to return to corruption, He has spoken thus: 'I will give

you the sure mercies of David.' 35 "Therefore He also says in another Psalm: 'You will

not allow Your Holy One to see corruption.' 36 "For David, after he had served his own

generation by the will of God, fell asleep, was buried with his fathers, and saw

corruption; 37 "but He whom God raised up saw no corruption. 38 "Therefore let it be

known to you, brethren, that through this Man is preached to you the forgiveness of

sins; 39 "and by Him everyone who believes is justified from all things from which you

could not be justified by the law of Moses. 40 "Beware therefore, lest what has been

spoken in the prophets come upon you: 41 "Behold, you despisers, Marvel and perish!

For I work a work in your days, A work which you will by no means believe, Though one

were to declare it to you.' " 42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the

Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now

when the congregation had broken up, many of the Jews and devout proselytes followed

Paul and Barnabas, who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of

God. 44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of

God. 45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy; and

contradicting and blaspheming, they opposed the things spoken by Paul. 46 Then Paul

and Barnabas grew bold and said, "It was necessary that the word of God should be

spoken to you first; but since you reject it, and judge yourselves unworthy of

everlasting life, behold, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 "For so the Lord has commanded

us: 'I have set you as a light to the Gentiles, That you should be for salvation to the

ends of the earth.' " 48 Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and

glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life

believed. 49 And the word of the Lord was being spread throughout all the region. 50

But the Jews stirred up the devout and prominent women and the chief men of the city,

raised up persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them from their region.

51 But they shook off the dust from their feet against them, and came to Iconium. 52

And the disciples were filled with joy and with the Holy Spirit.

I particularly like the this verse:

Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of

God.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Quote:

""""""another question brother. how many times did the Risen Christ appear to others or

His didciples on the sabbath?? now how many times did He appear to them on the first

day?? almost all if not all the times that we know the days the risen Christ appeared

to His disciples and others, it was on the first day not the sabbath. does this mean

that sunday is the sabbath? no. but it simply shows that Jesus for some reason chose to

continue to reveal Himself on the first day. such is the reason why the apostolic

church with people like irenious and justin martyr write that the believers meet on the

first day.""""""

Why should I think important the fact that Jesus appeared to his disciples of the first

day? Jesus declared him to be the lord of the sabbath. Now , had he said I am the lord

of the first day. you could say the he thought high of the first day. But the fact is

that he did not say that.

Brother. God gave you a direct command, not open to interpretation, not open to

opinions. The apostles never mentioned anything about the first day. The apostles would

not have said anything unless instructed by God, They had Jesus with them for so long

and Jesus never said anything about the importance of the first day, why?

John 14:9-10 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not

known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us

the Father'? 10 "Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The

words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells

in Me does the works.

Jesus Just declared here that his words were not his, but from the Father.

I am amazed of how humble Jesus was. Here you have the King of the universe, the

creator of all things and look what he said here...

Matthew 19:16-17 Now behold, one came and said to Him, "Good Teacher, what good thing

shall I do that I may have eternal life?" 17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me

good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep

the commandments."

Wow, Not even Jesus considered himself to be good but only the father. He declared that

his words are not his but from the father who sent him. and he says, if you want to

enter into life , keep my commandments.

HIs commandments? God's commandments?

I believe that whatever Jesus said and did was in accordance with what God wanted his

to say and do. so I am pretty sure that his commandmets and the father commandments are

the same...

One question?????

who are these people, irenious and justin martyr? what authority do they have to

change anything?

_______________________________________________________________________________________

to those who think works are nothing, read this....

Matthew 5:16-18 "Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good

works and glorify your Father in heaven. 17 " Do not think that I came to destroy the

Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I

say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means

pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

_______________________________________________________________________________________

Brother the question here is not the day you go to church. but the day that you keep

holy unto the Lord. The day that you do not work, The day that God separated for

himself, so you will remember that you have a God that is your creator..

The question is, do you want to obey him and his commandments? or do you want to

choose to follow people's interpretation of the scrypture?

_______________________________________________________________________________________

The thing that gets me is this....

Here God is offering you a whole day to Rest, to forget about your day to day activities and rest. A day to take to spend with you family and rest.
But we are so rebelius against God that we even refused to accept his rest.

I wonder how many people would object to his boss at work if he would come to you and say, look brother I want you to take a day off. but I will choose the day.

I wonder how many people would say, no I'd rather work. would you?

That is exactly what God is offering us.

a whole day of rest, no obligation to do anything but to worship him, to remember that he is God creator, God provider and the God who sets us free.

Why people see it as bondage I will never understand.....

Think about it as Rest, freedom, time with your family and most importantly time with your God. see it as a sign between him and you, a sign that says he is the God who sanctifies me. and maybe you will see that the keeping of the Sabbath is a blessing not a curse like the pharasies wanted it to be, allt he rules don'ts and don'ts and don'ts.

God bless you Phill

Yes I did,

BlazedbyGod, Thank you very much, It was really nice what you wrote.

Please do contribut here as well, I have learned a lot since I started writing here. I has given me a chance to know a bit more of why people do not keep the Sabbath.

One thing I cannot understand though.

After God finished creation, he offered us rest. Before man even knew what work was, God offered us rest.

What I don't understand is the fact that God wants to give us rest from all our activities and we see it as a burden. We look at it and we cannot get pass the cannot do this or that. It amazes me that People cannot see the Sabbath as something amazing, a day separeted by God so that we can remember him.

I love when God said: this is a sign between me and you, for I am the Lord who sanctifies you.
Doesn't that make you want to put yourself in a place where God said if you there He will sanctify you? I do.

It also amazes me, that everytime you mention the Sabbath or the Ten Commandments, people assume that you are trying to justify yourself through your works. The bible is very clear when it tells us that no one will be justified by works, because then one would have a reason for boasting. But to say that Faith alone is enough, it isn't. One complements the other..

James 2:17-26 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe -- and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Brother, the Sabbath is a Blessing and it is part of God's commandments. Commandments that are eternal.

John starts the book of revelation by saying that he had a vision on the day of the Lord. I believe that john is talking about the Sabbath. For Jesus said he was the Lord of the Sabbath.

And John in his vision, saw the ark of the covenant inside his temple, the very same ark that the Ten Commandments were put inside. if the Ten commandments are a thing of the past why was God still showing it to John....

Revelation 11:18-19 The nations were angry, and Your wrath has come, And the time of the dead, that they should be judged, And that You should reward Your servants the prophets and the saints, And those who fear Your name, small and great, And should destroy those who destroy the earth." 19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

Now, why did John mention the ark right when he is talking about judgment and rewards. What is the importance of mentioning the ark of the covenant that contains the Ten Commandments inside. Makes you wonder doesn't it? maybe it is because inside of the ark, God placed the Laws in which we will be judged? I don't know but it makes me wonder..

Brother, may God give us the understanding to uncover the secrets of his holy book.

I love what the apostle Paul wrote about the word of God:

Hebrews 4:1-16 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"; 5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest." 6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts." 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. 11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience. 12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 And there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account. 14 Seeing then that we have a great High Priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15 For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us therefore come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

I cannot understand how people can read this passage and still say the seventh day is not the day of resting....

God Bless you brother and please let's talk about it so people may see the true pleasure of keeping his holy day.

Dear brother LoveHim:

This is what you said:

""do you realize that many people can keep the law of the 10 commandments and yet be an idolator and adulteror and murderer in their heart. that is the problem with trying to live by the law. it measures your outward acts, but does nothing about the heart. then Jesus comes and begins to show us the spirit of the manner. He was further revealing God's character and further explaining the heart of the issue. """..

Could you please explain to me. I might have misunderstood what you were trying to say..

If one thinks that commandment are good holy and just, could still be adulteror and murderer in the heart. Brother we all struggle in this life in regard of sin, when one says that he believes in the ten commandment and that we should keep it, it does not mean that he will not stumble and fall, but as john says, we should not sin, but if we do, we have an advocate up in heaven, and if we confess our sins he is faithful and just, and he will forgive ours sins. nobody is free from sin, and that is why we need the blood of Jesus to cleanse our sins.

but Paul warned us.

Romans 5:18 - 6:2 Therefore, as through one man's offense judgment came to all men, resulting in condemnation, even so through one Man's righteous act the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by one Man's obedience many will be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered that the offense might abound. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more, 21 so that as sin reigned in death, even so grace might reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
NKJ Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?
_________________________________________________

Please do reply to this for I might have misunderstood you.

_________________________________________________

You quote:

here brother is where i think the difference in our opinions manifest itself. you believe that one is saved by grace through faith in Christ. then you seem to be saying "ok now i must keep the commandments". thus one becomes sanctified more or less by keeping the 10 commandments. it seems like you are saying that we become sanctified by what we do and what we observe. is this what you believe?? but brother, this is sanctification by works. this is exactly what paul was writing to the galatians about calling it "another gospel". do you know this??

You are right, this is exactly where we do not agree.

I believe that I am saved by faith and by my works. my faith has to result in something.

James 2:17-26 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe -- and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

What are your views about this?

As I said before, I believe that I am saved by my faith and by my works, one is nothing without the other. there is the place where we disagree, Correct me if I am wrong but you believe that you are saved by faith and faith alone, am I right?

If your answear is yes, then you have to be very careful for James is very clear when he says that your faith without your works is dead......
_________________________________________________

I have come accross people that think because one day the prayed the sinners prayer they are saved, and after that they can go on living the same way they lived before, and I believe that they could not be further from the truth. And some people think that once saved, forever saved. I just have one problem with that. King Saul once was God's anointed one but because of disobedience to one of God's commands, God departed from him. King Hezekiah also did right in the eyes of the Lord until his lasts days and God departed from his as well.

I think that there is nothing more beautiful than to hear someone saying that Jesus is his all and all. however, with this great gift that God has offered us by giving his son for a sacrifice on the cross for our salvation comes a great responsibility with it.

Hebrews 4:1-10 Therefore, since a promise remains of entering His rest, let us fear lest any of you seem to have come short of it. 2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it. 3 For we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: "So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,' " although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. 4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"; 5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest." 6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts." 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

To me Paul is clearly saying that:

God rested on the seventh day

Hebrews 4:4 And God rested on the seventh day from all His works.

There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from his.

How can you read this brother and not understand the importance of entering into His rest?

Well you might say: my rest is in Jesus and all that. I rest in Jesus as well. I rest in everything he has done for me to be saved. but I think Paul is not saying this at all.

Here Paul is talking about a resting day, a day that God stop his works, and blessed and sanctified this day, and for those who has entered his rest, he also stoped working on the seventh day....

Brother I wish you would open your mind and for one day, try to keep the Sabbath, just as an experience. Friday sunset, all you do is to rest, read God's word, go for a walk somewhere that you can appreciate nature, God's creation. Spend some moments in prayer and I can garantee you that by saturday sunset you will wish the day was longer....

You Quote:

"""I love you brother and i can't wait to meet you in heaven."""

I cannot wait for this day. and I, for one, am praying that our escape doens't happen during the winter, I pray for the pregnant women, and also I pray that we do not have to escape on the Sabbath...

Matthew 24:20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.

Dear brother Christinyou.

You Quote:

"""No, it does not and cannot. It is no longer your faith or your life that is now in you, it is Christs, Him in you the Hope of Glory. Not of works lest any man should boast."""

I think I have said this about ten times but here it goes again.

WE cannot be JUSTIFIED by our works. JUSTIFIED by our works. JUSTIFIED by our works.

Because then we would have a reason to boast.....

What does the Word JUSTIFIED mean?

Here it is...

adjective

Definition:

1. with good reason: having an acceptable reason for the action taken.

2. acceptable: acceptable or reasonable in the circumstances.

And that is what the Faith in Jesus does for us. It makes us Acceptable to God. But once you come to know Christ, you cannot go on doing everything you did in the past, there must be a change in your life, so, yes, your faith is confirmed by your works..

There is nothing you can do in this world that could make you acceptable to God except through faith. However, James said, faith without works is dead!!!!!! and Works without faith is also dead.

Could you please explaing to me what James is saying here....

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

James 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.

James 2:18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works.

James 2:19-26 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe -- and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

What is James saying about Abraham here?

Was he Justified by his works? no. James explains that by offering his son, faith was working together with his works. Had Abraham had faith in God but denied to sacrifice his son. then his faith would have been dead. Or am I Wrong?

What is Paul saying here.

Romans 3:27-31 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Paul said: Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. Again I will repeat this JUSTIFIED.
Paul was very clear: do we make void the Law? Certainly not. We establish the law. Because once you are Justified you have to Change your ways and obey God's law.

I would love to see your comments on these two texts....

In Love. Jayme

Dear brother phillip,

I asked you some questions in my last message. I would really like to see your comments on them.....

will answer this after having received your reply..

God bless

Dear brother Phil.

Once more thank you for you reply.

Quote:

"""here brother is where i think the difference in our opinions manifest itself. you believe that one is saved by grace through faith in Christ. then you seem to be saying "ok now i must keep the commandments".

Are you saying that we do not need to Keep his commandments?

but then Jesus said:

Matthew 19:17 So He said to him, "Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments."

do you want to enter into life?

John 14:14-15 "If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. 15 " If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Do want to love him?

John 15:10 "If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.

Do you want to abide in Jesus Love?

1 John 2:3-5 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

what makes us not be a liar when we profess to know him?

1 John 3:22-24 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.

How do you know that the spirit is in you?

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Who are the offspring that the dragon is enraged with?

Revelation 14:12-13 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus. 13 Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Write: 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.' " "Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them."

what will follow the ones who died in the Lord?

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Then you asked?

thus one becomes sanctified more or less by keeping the 10 commandments?

brother I have faith in Jesus but also I want to say yes to all of the questions above.

no, I am not justified by my works. we have gone through this one before. Justified means to be acceptable to God and that only happens through Jesus Christ. but once I have accepted him I want to love him, I want to enter into life, I want him to abide in me. I want to have the spirit within me. I want the dragon to be enraged with me. I want to one day be presented as one of them that died in the lord.
The bible is very clear that there is one way you can achieve all that. I don't think I need to say it, but here it is, by keeping his commandments....

Brother I think I have mentioned this before, but will say it again.

The galatians were being imposed the ceremonial laws, circumcision, to name one. the text that everybody uses in colossians to nulify the Sabbath is totally misinterpreted. I said before, foods, drinks, new moon and sabbaths: are all ceremonials feasts, shadow of what were to come, they all pointed to Jesus. but Jesus nailed those on the cross. but the seventh day sabbath was never part of these ceremonies....
These are the laws that Paul was talking about, if they thought that they needed all the sacrifices and purification feasts to be justified , then Jesus had died in vain....

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I don't understand how you can read the verses regarding the keeping of his commandments and not accept the fact that we are to keep his commandments.... for love towards him, not to get justification through our works.
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brother, you couldn't keep the law before Christ and you can't keep the law after Christ.

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Brother, I hope I have misunderstood this, but if not. then you or I as you said have a big problem.

The first four commandments of the Ten Commandments tell us what we must or must not do, in order to honor and Love God.

If you have other gods.

if you make images and idols.

if you take his name in vain.

if you do not keep his holy day. (which I am pretty sure you will say no to this one)

The other six, gives us guidance as to how we should love other...

if you do not honour your father and mother.

if you are a murderer.

if you are an adulterer.

if you steel.

if you are a liar.

if you covet.

Which one one of these you are saying that you or I could not keep. which one of these you are saying is impossible for you to keep?

Brother, (apart from the sabbath, which I think is as important as all the others, for God commanded us to keep his holy day.)

I hope you keep all the other, because if you don't I think you better think very seriously about your christian life. I will give you just two verses, but I could give you quite a few that would say the very same thing.
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Matthew 22:37-38 Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 "This is the first and great commandment.
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How can we love our God with all our hearts..

I think it is pretty clear in the four first commandments....

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Matthew 22:39-40 And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."
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Wow, did Jesus just mentioned all the other six commandments summed up in one?

Has Jesus just talked about the Ten Commandments?
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Brother, please do not say that one cannot keep these commandments for if you break one of the first four. You have just stop loving God.

or if you break one of the six other, Oh boy, you have just stop loving your brother.

Please do not say that one cannot keep the Ten Commandments, because they are commandments of love and if we want to show love towards God and our brother we must keep them.

Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

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we will not be judged by whether we observed a physical day of rest.
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No you are right, one will not be judged just because one did not obeserve a day, but one will be judged because God gave a command, a gift of rest, but one refused to receive it and obey it. and by doing so, one rebelled against Him. Therefore one will be judged because of rebelion, just like israel was judged and punished for their rebelion.

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I was reading the book of second Peter today and found there something very interesting. would like to know your thoughts about it...

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2 Peter 3:15-18 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation -- as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you, 16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, since you know this beforehand, beware lest you also fall from your own steadfastness, being led away with the error of the wicked; 18 but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory both now and forever. Amen.

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I am no directing this to anybody, I would like to see your views on the text.

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Dear Brother Phillip.

You keep repeating the fact that you keep the commandments by the Christ that is in you.

Please explain to me, according to what you are saying, how someone comes to Christ? Lives in Christ and dies in Christ?

Please use a language that I can understand, because all you have said so far is, Christ lives in me, the Spirits lives in me, etc..
Christ fulfilled the law, he kept the commandments for you. but what part do you play in this conversion?

What I want to know is, according to what you are saying. How does one recognises the fact that Jesus lives in Him, that the Holy Spirit abides in him? that he has been converted? that he can have the assurance of his salvation?

for the bible is very clear brother, faith alone is dead...

What I am saying here is faith has to work together with your works, one cannot go without the other. Faith alone does save you and works alone does not save you either.

Look what John said here...

Matthew 16:26-27 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? 27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

You said:

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He see's only His son, I am nothing.

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
2Cr 13:11 Finally, brethren, farewell. Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.
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My comments:

You started talking about what Jesus said regarding someone loving him by keeping his words but then you went to a text in cor. that Paul is saying goodbyes in the end of his letter. then he goes on saying Be perfect, be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace . Makes not sense at all....

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A lot of people here, including yourself, take a verse here and a verse there, and you make the bible say anything you want.

I will give you an example....

Matthew 10:2-4 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is
called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.
1 Corinthians 10:5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
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You cannot just take a verse here and there and expect it to make sense.

You said:

Then the Christ in you prepared before the foundation of the World will complete His work in us and that is the greater works we will do because of Him that is in us. Just present you body a living sacrifice unto God just as Christ did. By Faith.

Yes. I know is by faith but
How do I do this? how is my faith confirmed?
How can I be sure that my faith is acceptable to Christ?
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Live by the Spirit of Christ in you, another person living in you. Renew your mind to the Mind of Christ by the Holy Spirit.

Yes, beautiful words.. but how do I live by the Spirit? How do I know that my mind is renewed by Christ?

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Dear brother Christinyou..

In regard to I John 2:3-5 you wrote:
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Quote:
This is how we abide in Him and His love.

Jhn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

It is Christ that works for His good pleasure to do the works of Love in us. Then we will love as He loves, and accept the Love He gives us by the Cross. Pretty deep Love I would say, in fact Jhn 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Jhn 15:15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made known unto you.

Friend we can only love and be loved by the Christ that is Love, and because He is now our life, another Being living in us.
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After all that you only mentioned the abide word.
Where is the part that Jesus said:

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him

Talk to me about his commandments, why Jesus mentioned the word commandments?

Here is what commandments really mean.

greatest commandment according to Christ.

Matthew 22:36-40 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 37 Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 "This is the first and great commandment.

39 "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Now look at the Greatest Commandment according to Moses...

Deuteronomy 6:5 "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.

This is Moses describing the essence of the law(Ten Commandments)

Is Jesus and Moses talking about the same commandments?

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Christ is not the minister of sin and I will not build on my works and keeping commandments, but only build on the life of Christ that is in me.
By this all men.

I think you were the one that said that you are not going to keep any commandments.

1 John 2:3-5 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

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Dear Brother.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Who are the offspring that the dragon is enraged with

Your answer.
Israel.

It cannot be Israel for israel did not keep God's commandments and they also do not have the testimony of Jesus.

Please read this.

It is not until verse 17 that the church comes directly into the picture, identified as "the rest of her [the Woman's] offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ," the Messiah born to the Woman in verse 5. Israel, the nation, does not keep the commandments of God, nor does it have the testimony of Jesus Christ. Even as the Messiah was born of the Woman and definitely kept the commandments of God, so also does the remnant of her offspring, who are now clearly distinguished from her.
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One can argue the The women is israel, and some says the women is the church. but everybody agrees that the offspring is not Israel. they are the ones that accepted Jesus as they saviour and also kept his commandments.

Quote:
""brother, you couldn't keep the law before Christ and you can't keep the law after Christ.""

The Christ in me is the Law keeper. He is the Sabbath, rest, by Him that is in me the Sabbath is completely fulfilled and I keep it in Him 24-7
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But in here we have///

Hebrews 4:4-10 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"; 5 and again in this place: "They shall not enter My rest." 6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, 7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, "Today," after such a long time, as it has been said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts." 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, then He would not afterward have spoken of another day. 9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God. 10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
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It tells me of a day(seventh day), it tells me that God rested and whoever wants to enter his rest should also cease his works just like God did his.

Paul is talking about the Seventh Day (SAbbath). you can say that Jesus is your sabbath and that you rest in him 24/7, but the fact remains that if you want to enter his rest Brother you will have to cease your works, just like God ceased his.

Dear Brother Phillip.

Quote:
"""You cannot keep the Sabbath unless Christ is born again in you, it does not even Israel any good to keep the Sabbath, as they deny Christ."""

I keept the Sabbath and I do not deny the Son of God, on the contrary, He is my all in all, Where I am weak he makes me strong. and I love Him. Therefore, I cannot but keep his commandments.

I do not keep the Sabbath because I want to score points with God, so I have a better place in heaven than you. I keep His commandments because he simply commanded me to. Do I want to be rebellious like Israel, and then put myself in the same place where Israel found themselves many many times and were severelly punished.

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Quote:
Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

"Nothing"

I am not sure why you wrote this text. I has nothing to do with what we are talking about. Have I somewhere said that I can do anything without Him? But since you mentioned:

ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit.

What is the much fruit He is talking about here? Am I wrong to think that, if you are in Him you will produce something? Correct me if I am wrong.
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Quote:

Is not Christ our rest, are we going to enter it or are we going to keep the Sabbath to enter that rest?

Christ is most definetely our Rest. My Salvation rests on Him, without Him we have no part with the Father. There is no other Name in which we can be Saved. If Christ didn't die for us nor rose in the Third day, then we have nothing.

1 Corinthians 15:32 If the dead do not rise, "Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die!

Without Christ we are Dead. Just plainly DEAD.

I hope you understand that I, like you, rest my salvation on Jesus.

Now, Brother. Jesus Called Himself Lord of the Sabbath, it was his habit to go to church on the Sabbath (you might say synagogue). Jesus most definetely Kept the Sabbath, for it was and still is requirement of the law(Ten Commandments) and we know that Jesus never sinned. Therefore, I know for fact that he kept the Sabbath.

One more thing, all throught the Gospels we see texts that says Jesus performed Miracles on the Sabbath and healed people on the Sabbath, etc... but Nowhere it is mentioned that Jesus or his disciples Worked, I mean , laboured on the Sabbath, because if he had done, then we would say, well he is telling us that the Sabbath is no longer binding. but in the other hand he would have sinned because He would have broken the Fourth commandment.

And He said:

Matthew 5:17-19 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Has Jeus fulfilled the Law? Most definetely yes.

Does fulfilled mean Abolish? NO, we went through that one before.

Has the whole law of the prophets been fulfilled? I don't think so, thera are a whole bunch of prophecies still to be fulfilled.

for he said until all all all all the law of the prophets is fulfilled nothing should change.

You can say, that Jesus is your rest and that you do not need to keep his commandments, but the way I see it is that you are contractiding yourself. If Jesus is your all and all, you should obey him. for he says:

John 14:14-15 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. 15 " If you love Me, keep My commandments.

Brother, Again you can say, Jesus has fulfilled the law for me, I do not have to do anything else. Then I ask you, what kind of partnership is this that only one side is doing all the work. don't you have to contribute with something? How do you show Jesus that you love him?
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You Quote:

He Kept the Law on earth, He still keeps the Law in our Hearts, that is where our Sabbath should be, not a day of the week, but as I have said many times Jesus Christ is our Sabbath 24-7 in our heart not the world.

Brother, you keep reapeting the same thing and I keep reapeting the same thing. You say that the Sabbath is not a day of the week, There is just one problem with that.

James 4:12 12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another?

Isaiah 33:22 For the LORD is our Judge, The LORD is our Lawgiver, The LORD is our King; He will save us;

There is one Lawgiver and He is Our Lord, and he commanded the Sabbath, a day of the week. the Seventh Day of the Week, and firstly He Sanctified it, secondly, He told us to remember it. and Thirdly, he Commanded us to keep his day holy.

Yes, it is a day of the Week, as much as you do not accept it, but the fact remains that God is the Lawgiver, not us....

Dear Brother Phillip.

quote:
""Pure religious works, keeping the Sabbath day.""

It is just too bad that you describes God's law and judgements that way. God gave his people(Israel) commandments, and they did not keep them bringing judgement upon them.
God then offers us(gentiles) the same opportunity to be his chosen people by accepting His son and by then submiting ourselves to his will. For, the bible says we will be judged according to our works...

Revelation 20:12-15 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
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The Blessing of the Sabbath Keeping.

Isaiah 56:2-3 Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil." 3 Do not let the son of the foreigner Who has joined himself to the LORD Speak, saying, "The LORD has utterly separated me from His people"; Nor let the eunuch say, "Here I am, a dry tree."

The promise to those who keeps the SAbbath.

Isaiah 56:4-7 For thus says the LORD: "To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant, 5 Even to them I will give in My house And within My walls a place and a name Better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off.
6 " Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants -- Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant -- 7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."

Interesting that the same promise to them is again repeated here in Revelation.

Revelation 3:10-12 "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 "Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

Peace to you all...

Brother Phillip.

God gave you a command, it is up to you to choose to ignore it or not.

Just one last Question to you. Do you have a church to attend? I am not asking for a name just a yes or no answer.

All through the NT, The bible talks about those who keeps the commandments of God until the end.
Specially in revelation, I haven't come accross any text that says, to those that Jesus Kept the commandmenst for them until the end.

What I am trying to say here, is that you have a part to play.

Jesus Justified me, when he died for me but now that I am a new creature, I have to submit myself to his will, to his Holy law.

Brother you can say anything about the Ten commandments but one fact remains, with the exception to the Sabbath, which you don't seem to think relevant. You better be keeping all the other nines cause if you are not, I think you got yourself a problem.

Matthew 22:36-40 Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 37 Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 "This is the first and great commandment. 39 "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

But don't forget what it is said about it, you can keep the other nines but if you stumble on the forth one, you missed them all.

God Bless you.

Dear brother Thomasm:

Thank you for your post.

Brother you quote:

""""""The law of moses isn't good enough, are you keeping matt:Ch;23 ch;24 ch;25.
Because if you think the ten comandments are keeping back the wrath of God, Jesus made the law higher than the law of Moses, all who enter fully into His rest keep it in the flesh, because the sinfull nature was destroyed, and the nature of God replaces it."""

Brother I suggest you to go back to either exodus 20 or Deuteronomy 5 and have a read again at the Ten Commandments.

I am sorry for saying this but I do not think you know what you are talking about when you refer to God's perfect Law and in "not Good enough"

Firstly, The Ten Commandments were Statutes Given to Moses By God. God was showing the his chosen people how he wanted them to, Firstly show love towards him and secondly, how they should respect their fellow man. They are the hand write of God himself on stones, placed inside the Ark of the Covenant, the same ark that John saw in heaven when he wrote the book of revelation. The Same ark that is in the heavenly tabernacle where Jesus Himself if the high priest.

Revelation 11:19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

Nehemiah 9:14-16 You made known to them Your holy Sabbath, And commanded them precepts, statutes and laws, By the hand of Moses Your servant. 15 You gave them bread from heaven for their hunger, And brought them water out of the rock for their thirst, And told them to go in to possess the land Which You had sworn to give them. 16 " But they and our fathers acted proudly, Hardened their necks, And did not heed Your commandments.

I said before brother, you might not agree to the fact that God gave us some very specific guidance as to how we love Him and the ones around us. But do not label it as not good enough, for everything that God does or give us, is not only good enough but it is also holy. The Ten Commandments are the Laws of God, Given to moses but They are the hand write of God himself, not of moses.

You mentioned matthew 23/24/25.

Ok. I will disregard that you are putting me in the same category as the people Jesus is talking about here. but get this....

Matthew 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone.

Matthew 23:28 "Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.

Then I ask you, what is lawlessness?

Since you mentioned chapter 24:

Matthew 24:14-21 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. 15 " Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place" (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 "then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 "Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 "And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 "But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 "And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 "For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Are you praying brother for the things Jesus asked us to pray?

Matthew 24:20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath.

On chapter 25 we have,

The parable of the wise and foolish virgins, The parable of the Talents and also Jesus talks about judgments that will come upon the nations.

I am not sure what you were trying to imply by asking if I keep this.

But get this.

YOu forgot to mention Matthew 22:

There is something very interesting here.

Matthew 22:35-40 Then one of them, a lawyer, asked Him a question, testing Him, and saying, 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the law?" 37 Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 "This is the first and great commandment. 39 "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 "On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

Look at Jesus talking about the Ten Commandments here.

What is the First great commandment.

-To love my God above everything else. How do I do that?

Deuteronomy 5:6-15 I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. 7 ' You shall have no other gods before Me. 8 ' You shall not make for yourself a carved image -- any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 9 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. 11 ' You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. 12 ' Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. 13 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 14 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your male servant and your female servant may rest as well as you. 15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

Very clear to me as to how God wants me to love him.

-Second greatest commandments, To love my neighbour as I love myself. How do I love my neighbour? Here it is...

Deuteronomy 5:16-21 Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may be well with you in the land which the LORD your God is giving you. 17 ' You shall not murder. 18 ' You shall not commit adultery. 19 ' You shall not steal. 20 ' You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. 21 ' You shall not covet your neighbor's wife; and you shall not desire your neighbor's house, his field, his male servant, his female servant, his ox, his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.'

And in those two great commandments hangs all the law of the Prophets, Jesus said it Himself.

You might not like it or you might not agree with it, but that is exactly what Jesus said.

Please Read the Ten Commandments and meditate in them, you will see that the law of God is perfect and holy.

I particularly like this verse.

Deuteronomy 5:10 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Jesus clearly said that he wasn't here to do his will. He was here to do the will of the Father. it was all about the Father, He came to please the Father, the Same Father that said,

Deuteronomy 5:10 showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

Brother, do not look at the sabbath as a burden, something that you have to do in order to be saved. Think about it as a day that God Separated for you. a day that he wants you to forget everything else and only concentrate on him. A day for you to REst, to take it easy to relax to enjoy your family. To visit friend and family to talk about HIM, it is all about Him. Nothing else.

Then you can say, well I have to be in him 24/7, that is great, fantastic, but one fact remain, God Commanded us to keep his SAbbath holy, that is what he requires from us, not a sunday, not a monday not any other day, but the Sabbath.
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Something interesting here.

Ephesians 2:14-16 For He Himself is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of separation, 15 having abolished in His flesh the enmity, that is, the law of commandments contained in ordinances, so as to create in Himself one new man from the two, thus making peace, 16 and that He might reconcile them both to God in one body through the cross, thereby putting to death the enmity.

Paul could have just said:

Abolish the law of the prophets, or the Ten commandments, or the whole law, or the commandments of God. That would have made very clear to us that nothing of the law was still binding to us, but he did not do that, did he?

Instead he, explained so we would be sure that he is talking about a part of the law, that contained ordinances.

KJV Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Do you see now what Paul is talking about?

You quoted:

"""""Yes the law of moses is keepable Paul said he kept it without fault in the flesh, but his heart was full of evil thoughts.""""

I want to ask you somethings, please you do not have to answer, they are just for you to ponder about them?

Do you have evil thoughts?
do you wish to do things that you shouldn't?
Do you have desires of the Flesh?

Just so you don't think that I am judging you, my answer to all those questions are Yes.

I don't want to have evil thoughts but I do.
I don't want to do things I shouldn't but sometimes I do.
I don't want to have desires of the flesh, but I do and sometimes I give in to them.

Does it mean that I do not have Jesus living in me?

does it mean that I wasn't born again?

all these things will only disapear completely When I get to heaven.

Look what Paul said:

I thank God -- through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Brother Phillip.

quote:""No one can keep all the commandments,"

Brother, Jesus said the greatest commandment is to love your God above everything else.

no other gods, Do you have other gods?

No images, Do you worship images?

No taking his name in vain. do you take his name is vai?

The Sabbath, which to me is a delight.

Honour my mother and father. Do you?

do not murder. do you?

do not commit adultery. Do you?

Do not steal. Do you?

do not bear false testimony. Do you?

Do not covet. Do you covet whatever belongs to your neighbour?

Brother I do not know you, but to see that you are studying the word, I can pretty much assume that you are in accordance with all the other nine commandments. Or am I wrong?

Now the Sabbath is the easiest of them all to keep. All you have to do is to cease your works, and rest. REst. Rest. Rest. HOw difficult is that?

God would not ask us something that he thought was impossible for us to keep. but look what God says here.

Ezekiel 20:24-25 because they had not executed My judgments, but had despised My statutes, profaned My Sabbaths, and their eyes were fixed on their fathers' idols. 25 "Therefore I also gave them up to statutes that were not good, and judgments by which they could not live;

In love

Dear brother Phillip.

Just for me to understand where you stand.
Are you saying that you do not have to keep any of these commandments?

no other gods
No images
No taking his name in vain. T
The Sabbath
Honour my mother and father.
do not murder.
do not commit adultery.
Do not steal.
do not bear false testimony.

Matthew 3:10 Therefore every tree which does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.

Please satisfy my curiosity, do you attend church? Or you also think it is not necessary for you?

Brother thomasm.

I just don't understand why would you ask me if I keep the laws of matthew 5,6,7. For I believe that the Christian should keep the Ten commandments, and if you have a closer look, almost all the commandments on these three chapter are included in the Ten Commandments. And that is why the Ten commandmments are called the law of love.

Chapter 5

Christ fulfilled the Law. what law? Ten commandments and all of the other ceremonial laws right? yes.

Murder in the heart.
Adultery in the heart.
Well according to the Ten commandments I should not murder and not commit adultery, God commanded us not not to commit adultery and not to commit murder.
Please do not say that Jesus is talking about adultery of the heart here and murder of the heart because I do not believe that when God Gave the ten commandments they were allowed either.
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matthew 5:31

again talking about adultery, we have covered that one.
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Matthew 5:33

Do not swear: Do you think that when we say, I swear to God. Are we taking his name in vain?

Or when we say, By God I will do this? or when we use the name of Jesus in vain repetition.
2nd Commandment again.
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Matthew 5:38-48

Well The six last commandments talks about us loving our fellow men. The last commandment tells us to respect our neighbour. is he our friend or our enemy, it doesn't say, but we have to respect him just the same.
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Matthew 6

Matthew six is really cool, because it tells us a bit more detailed how to please God.

The four first commandments, tell us a bit about how to please And respect God, here it shows us how to pray for him, God does't want you to be screeming at him as if he could hear you better if you pray louder. He is a God of order not of confusion.

Matthew 6:24

You cannot serve God and riches, The money can be a false god and we know that we cannot serve two gods. it says you cannot serve God and mammon.

First Commandment.
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Matthew 6:25-34

Why should I worry, God will provide for me.

Read the Story of Israel in the desert, God provided mana for them, and get this. on the friday(sixth day) they would get double portion for the SAbbath.

I keep the Sabbath, for God, set me free from bondage just like he did with israel. only after they were safe int he other side of sea, and only after God had started providing the mana for them that God commanded them to keep the Sabbath. I am free to tell anybody that on the Sabbath, I am not going to work, There is nothing you can offer me, there is not threat you can throw at me, will make me break the law of the sabbath. for it is a day of worship. I just don't worry about it, God will provide for me one way or the other, if I am put in a position where I have to choose between my job and my God, rest assure that I don't even have to think about it, and the coolest thing of it all is that my whole family would support me all the way. I am proud to say that at the age of 34 years old, God has blessed me in such a way that I have never worked a single sabbath in my whole life.

Let me write this again, for I am sure someone will write to me saying that I am trying to justify myself through my works.

And I am not. my justification is in Jesus, Without him there is no salvation. There is no other name in which we can be save. I do not keep the sabbath to be saved, I keep it because I am saved. Jesus said

Matthew 5:48 "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

So yeah, I don't worry about it.
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Matthew 7:01-06

Do not judge.

Matthew 7:12 Therefore, whatever you want men to do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.

How can you love your neighbour and at the same time judge him?

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Matthew 7:13-14

This is my interpretation of this, Please do not write back to me saying that I am totally wrong and I have misused the bible.

Jesus talks about the wide and narrow way. Now let's consider that the narrow way is the keeping of the Sabbath(seventh day). and let's say that the keeping of the sabbath is the way to eternal life. How many churches do you think preaches the keeping of the SAbbath compared to the number of churches that don't. Does this makes sense?
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I would love to see your interpretatin of the wide and narrow way that Jesus talks about here.
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Just a few texts for you to ponder about them.

Deuteronomy 5:12 Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you.

Deuteronomy 5:15 And remember that you were a slave in the land of Egypt, and the LORD your God brought you out from there by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the LORD your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.

The essence of the Law.

Deuteronomy 10:12-22 And now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require of you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and to love Him, to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 "and to keep the commandments of the LORD and His statutes which I command you today for your good? 14 "Indeed heaven and the highest heavens belong to the LORD your God, also the earth with all that is in it. 15 "The LORD delighted only in your fathers, to love them; and He chose their descendants after them, you above all peoples, as it is this day. 16 "Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer. 17 "For the LORD your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great God, mighty and awesome, who shows no partiality nor takes a bribe. 18 "He administers justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the stranger, giving him food and clothing. 19 "Therefore love the stranger, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. 20 "You shall fear the LORD your God; you shall serve Him, and to Him you shall hold fast, and take oaths in His name. 21 "He is your praise, and He is your God, who has done for you these great and awesome things which your eyes have seen. 22 "Your fathers went down to Egypt with seventy persons, and now the LORD your God has made you as the stars of heaven in multitude.
Deuteronomy 11:1 Therefore you shall love the LORD your God, and keep His charge, His statutes, His judgments, and His commandments always.

Isaiah 56:2 Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil."

Sabbath not just for Israel.

Isaiah 56:6-7 Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants -- Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant -- 7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."

Isaiah 58:13-14 If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable, And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways, Nor finding your own pleasure, Nor speaking your own words, 14 Then you shall delight yourself in the LORD; And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth, And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father. The mouth of the LORD has spoken."

May God gives us the understanding of his word

Dear brother chris.

quote:
The ministration of death, written and engraven in stones.

Look what moses said regarding the Commandments.

Deuteronomy 11:26-27 Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse: 27 "the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you today;

Deuteronomy 11:28 and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to go after other gods which you have not known.

Is it the ministration of Death well according to moses it you don't obey them it is a curse.

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You quote:

""The letter of the Ten Commandmets are still relevant in bringing the knowledge of sin and proving all to be guilty(Romans 3:19-20). However I do not believe the letter of the Ten Commandments are a part of New Covenant in Christ""

Not sure if I understood what you said. When you don't know what sin is you need the Ten Commandments, but then once you know what you are a sinner, then you don't need the law anymore?
How does that Logic works?
When does the new believer can disregard it?

What is even more amazing to me is this.

Here we have various people describing the law and the commandments of God.

Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

1 Timothy 1:5-8 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith, 6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk, 7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm. 8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully,

Psalm 89:30-34 If his sons forsake My law And do not walk in My judgments, 31 If they break My statutes And do not keep My commandments, 32 Then I will punish their transgression with the rod, And their iniquity with stripes. 33 Nevertheless My lovingkindness I will not utterly take from him, Nor allow My faithfulness to fail. 34 My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

Psalm 112:1-3 Praise the LORD! Blessed is the man who fears the LORD, Who delights greatly in His commandments. 2 His descendants will be mighty on earth; The generation of the upright will be blessed. 3 Wealth and riches will be in his house, And his righteousness endures forever.

Matthew 5:18-19 For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
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I think that this is what paul really meant about the law.

Romans 7:12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.

Me again

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how can you read Hebrews chapter 4 and not see paul writing about the sabbath?

Here is what I think.

Hebrews 4:4 or He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: "And God rested on the seventh day from all His works"

-- we have here the Seventh day, God rested in it from his Creation works.

Hebrews 4:6 Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience.

What is paul saying here.

What was preached? The SAbbath, seventh day.

To whom it was preached? Israel

Why they did not enter the rest? because of rebellion. We know for a fact the Israel was severelly punished because they forgot the Commandments of God, and they did not walk in His ways.

Hebrews 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

So there are some of us the will enter his rest.
but how?

Hebrews 4:10-11 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His. 11 Let us therefore be diligent to enter that rest, lest anyone fall according to the same example of disobedience.

How does one enter his rest? by ceasing his works.

When should one cease his works? The same day that God ceased His.

When did God ceased His works?
On the seventh day, Sabbath.

Then Paul Goes on saying:

Let's not make the same mistake as did Israel. and not enter into His rest.

So, God rested on the Seventh day. and he gave us His rest. if we want to enter in His rest, we will have to to the same thing he did. He rested on the seventh day.

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I would love to see your interpretation of this text, step by step like I did.

You mentioned the text but you did not comment on it.

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Quote:

""And the book of Hebrews tells us to enter into rest, by ceasing from our own works. Not once a week, but for good.""

Brother, Paul is saying that if we want to enter his rest we have to stop our work on the same day that God stops his. According to the bible God rested from his works on the seventh day of Creation.

God did not rest all his works for good. he rested on the seventh day only. So to rest our works for good doesn not fit in the context here. for Jesus himself said:

John 5:17 But Jesus answered them, "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working."

one might argue, Well you see, God and Jesus are working on the Sabbath. Well Jesus works was to heal, to preach, to do good. He himself said that is is lawful to do good on the Sabbath.
But one thing is a fact, God rested on the seventh day and he blessed it and sanctified it. and He commanded us to Rest. You can say, Jesus said that God works on the sabbath(God can do anything he wants, he is the law giver not us) but one fact remains,

HE COMMANDED US TO KEEP HIS HOLY DAY.

Dear brother.

Quote:

God made that covenant with the children of Israel. He gave THEM the 7th day sabbath and the others as a sign that He sanctified them.

I don't believe that there is a separation between us and Israel anymore, for Paul says that we are all part of the same body, the body of Christ. Christ is the root and Gentiles and Israel the branches. so I believe that in Christ we are the people of God. the Spiritual Israel.

Read this.

Revelation 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

Revelation 21:9-12 Then one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls filled with the seven last plagues came to me and talked with me, saying, "Come, I will show you the bride, the Lamb's wife." 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

Correct if I am wrong, but John does not mention a gate for the Gentiles in the New Jerusalem. Does he? He talks about twelve gates with the names of the tribes of Israel, but I thought that this is where all the saints will live. Am I wrong? If I am correct. which I might not be. but let's say that I am. Then you and I will be part of a tribe right? or how does it go?

I would love to hear you comments on that, if God still separates Israel and the Gentiles and gives us different set of rules to live by. Are we all going to live together in heaven or are we going to be separated even over there?

Brother Phillip

I have some question:

You keep repeating the same things over and over, but you never answer my questions.

Jesus Fulfilled the Law. What is my part in my salvation process? Jesus fulfilled the law, can I steal? can I covet, can I had other gods, can I take the name of god in vain?

Please answer me, for if jesus fulfilled if for me, so that I do not have to keep the 4th commandment then, can I break all the others as well? if not, then please point out for me where it says that it is only the Sabbath that is no longer binding?

In revelation brother John is very clear when he says:

Revelation 20:12-13 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

How is everybody going to be judges brother Phillip?

Revelation 22:12 And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work.

My works or Jesus works?

Revelation 2:23 I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

Brother you salvation depends on your faith in Jesus and in the fruits that you bear.

James 2:17-26 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe -- and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

So Please answer my questions,

once you are saved what part do you play in your salvation?
HOw can you be sure that you have presented your body as a holy sacrifice to God?

You keep repeating the same things, I do not base my salvation on my works alone, for it I could do that, then I would have a reason to boast.

Jesus died for me, the justification part of my salvation rests on Him and in Him alone. we cannot come to the Father by any other way except through Jesus. Without Jesus we have no part with the Father. I don't know how many times I have said this here. But people keep writing to me as if I am trying to save myself by my works.

But Jesus Himself said that we have to bear good fruit, if we do not, then we will be cut down and thrown into the fire.

Matthew 7:15-21 Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 "You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 "Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 "A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 "Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 "Therefore by their fruits you will know them. 21 " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.

What is the fruit that Jesus is talking about here?

Brother if you believe that you can be saved by faith alone, be aware of what James said.

Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?

You faith without fruits is dead.

I would like to see your answers to these questions?

Hello brother Phil,

Nice to have you back.

I will try to answer some of your questions, since I am the one answering questions and never getting my questions answered.

Firstly, you posted a text from Timothy, Let's see what it says:

1 Timothy 1:5-6 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith.

Here we have the purpose of the Law, right?
it listed only good things, Love, Good conscience and a sincere faith.

but look what Paul says next.

1 Timothy 1:6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk.

what is the word "Which" refering to? The Commandment. do you agree? ok moving on...

what's next?

having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk.

Definition according to the Cambridge dictionary.

""stray""
verb [I]
1 to travel along a route that was not originally intended, or to move beyond a limited area.

2 to start thinking or talking about a different subject from the one you should be giving attention to.

Again.
some started thinking or talking about a different subject from the one you should be giving attention to. turned aside to idle talk.

So, what is the Subject that some went stray. The commandment maybe? what do you think?

1 Timothy 1:7 desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say nor the things which they affirm.

Am I trying to be teachers of the Law?

I am not sure if that is what you were trying to imply about me here, but I just want you to know that nowhere I have said anything of the sort. I am here making public the fact that I believe we are to keep God's Law. God Gave his Laws to his chosen People and I believe that if I want to be part of his chosen people I have to keep his commandments. All throughout the bible this is clearly shown to us.

1 Timothy 1:8 But we know that the law is good if one uses it lawfully.

Look what moses said about the Law of God.

Deuteronomy 11:26-28 Behold, I set before you today a blessing and a curse: 27 "the blessing, if you obey the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you today; 28 "and the curse, if you do not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside from the way which I command you today, to go after other gods which you have not known.

I ask you then, how do I use the law the right way so it becomes good?

You might say that it was given to Israel, we have no part in it. I totally disagree. It was given to God's chosen people, a people set aside for the Lord. Am I included? most definetely, I want to be part of God's people and I also want to keep His commandments out of my Love for Him rather than fear.
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John talks about the New Jerusalem, with the twelve gates with all the names of the tribes of israel. where are we gonna go if we are not the spiritual Israel? Where are we the gentiles going to live if not in the new Jerusalem? Nowhere is said that they will live in a city and the gentiles in another. Or am I wrong.

I asked Brother Phillip(Christinyou) and he said that Jesus went to prepare many mansions.

The cambridge dictionary describes mansions as being:

large impressive house.

Am I correct to assume that the mansions Jesus is talking about are houses in the new Jerusalem? please correct me if I am wrong.

Revelation 21:10-14 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, 11 having the glory of God. Her light was like a most precious stone, like a jasper stone, clear as crystal. 12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: 13 three gates on the east, three gates on the north, three gates on the south, and three gates on the west. 14 Now the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

Brother why do I keep Gods commandments, because I want to have part on the tree of life and I also want to enter his Gates.

Revelation 22:13-14 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last." 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

in love.

Jayme

Hi again, I will try to reply to the second half of your post.

Quote:

""but we know the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, ETc."

ok. please explaing this to me, because although people keep repeating this I just cannot understand the logic.

Here is my problem:

I never heard of Jesus and his commandments. I live my life accordingly to my flesh desires. But then, what happens. I hear of Jesus, and his laws and I recognise that I am a sinner and my whole life has been about sin. I give my life to Jesus, and then what happens brother?
The same commandments that showed I lived in sin do not have importance anymore? How do I go about showing others that I love him?

please explaing to me, because I just do not understand the logic.

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Quote: "paul tells us the law is not made for the righteous, but for the unrighteous."

Was Jesus righteous or unrighteous?
for he was under the Law and fulfilled it in every way?
Was Elijah, righteous or unrighteous? He kept the commandments of God. he was taken into heaven.

Isaiah, righteous or unrighteous?
Jeremiah, righteous or unrighteous?

The list is endless. Did all these people kept God's commandments?

What paul said was that is it through the law that sin is revealed, without the law, there is no sin.

Romans 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

NIV for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

Romans 3:29-31 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Faith brother does not make the law void, on the contrary, it establish the law.

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Quote:

""tell me this brother jayme, is the true body of Christ any of those things?? no, the body of Christ is a spotless bride, a royal priesthood, a holy nation. the church or body of Christ is clothed with the righteousness of Christ. these things listed are not true of the true church."""

Is the Church of Christ all the above? let's see what Jesus has to say about the churches.

Revelation 2:1 - 4:1 To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, ' These things says He who holds the seven stars in His right hand, who walks in the midst of the seven golden lampstands: 2 "I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars; 3 "and you have persevered and have patience, and have labored for My name's sake and have not become weary. 4 "Nevertheless I have this against you, that you have left your first love. 5 "Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place -- unless you repent. 6 "But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. 7 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God." ' 8 " And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ' These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life: 9 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. 10 "Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life. 11 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes shall not be hurt by the second death." ' 12 " And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write, ' These things says He who has the sharp two-edged sword: 13 "I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells. 14 "But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. 15 "Thus you also have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate. 16 'Repent, or else I will come to you quickly and will fight against them with the sword of My mouth. 17 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give some of the hidden manna to eat. And I will give him a white stone, and on the stone a new name written which no one knows except him who receives it." ' 18 " And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write, ' These things says the Son of God, who has eyes like a flame of fire, and His feet like fine brass: 19 "I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first. 20 "Nevertheless I have a few things against you, because you allow that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophetess, to teach and seduce My servants to commit sexual immorality and eat things sacrificed to idols. 21 "And I gave her time to repent of her sexual immorality, and she did not repent. 22 "Indeed I will cast her into a sickbed, and those who commit adultery with her into great tribulation, unless they repent of their deeds. 23 "I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works. 24 "Now to you I say, and to the rest in Thyatira, as many as do not have this doctrine, who have not known the depths of Satan, as they say, I will put on you no other burden. 25 "But hold fast what you have till I come. 26 "And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations -- 27 'He shall rule them with a rod of iron; They shall be dashed to pieces like the potter's vessels' -- as I also have received from My Father; 28 "and I will give him the morning star. 29 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." ' NKJ Revelation 3:1 "And to the angel of the church in Sardis write, ' These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. 2 "Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. 3 "Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. 4 "You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. 5 "He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. 6 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." ' 7 " And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write, ' These things says He who is holy, He who is true, "He who has the key of David, He who opens and no one shuts, and shuts and no one opens": 8 "I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name. 9 "Indeed I will make those of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews and are not, but lie -- indeed I will make them come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you. 10 "Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth. 11 "Behold, I am coming quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown. 12 "He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. And I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name. 13 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches." ' 14 " And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write, ' These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 "Because you say, 'I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing' -- and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked -- 18 "I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 "To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. 22 "He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches."

Did it answer your question about the church?

Hi there brother,

quote:

"The purpose, or end, if you will, of the commandment may have been love, but it could not bring it. Only the Spirit can, through faith."

Did you just say that God gave us a law of love that failed to acomplish its porpose? God miscalculated it?

God Himself told the Prophet Ezekiel why Israel did not receive his blessings.

Ezekiel 20:22-25 "Nevertheless I withdrew My hand and acted for My name's sake, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the Gentiles, in whose sight I had brought them out. 23 "Also I raised My hand in an oath to those in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the Gentiles and disperse them throughout the countries, 24 "because they had not executed My judgments, but had despised My statutes, profaned My Sabbaths, and their eyes were fixed on their fathers' idols. 25 "Therefore I also gave them up to statutes that were not good, and judgments by which they could not live;

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When I quoted what Moses said about the Law being a blessing and a curse I was hoping that people would perceive the two sides of of it. But again we always take the side the favours our side of the argument and totally forget the other side. Sorry to say this brother, but how come you did not mention the fact that he said if you obey the Commandments it will be a blessing.

I ask you. Do you think it can be a blessing or was moses just talking words?
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Brother Chris.

I will reply to the second part of your message.

I feel that I have to write this again for I think some of you still don's seem to understand what I have written many many times.

You cannot be justified by works, it is not what I am trying to say here. You can only be justified by faith in Jesus, without him we have not part with the Father. My salvation is based on Christ and in Christ alone. HOwever, To me the bible is very clear, we have to keep God's Commandments.

In Revelation, John talks about the people who keeps his commandments.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

What commandments are these?

Who is the Devil after?

Revelation 12:17 and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

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Quote:
""but faith which worketh by love""

Does your faith have works?
and is your works done by faith?

James 2:14-26 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister is naked and destitute of daily food, 16 and one of you says to them, "Depart in peace, be warmed and filled," but you do not give them the things which are needed for the body, what does it profit? 17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. 18 But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that there is one God. You do well. Even the demons believe -- and tremble! 20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? 23 And the Scripture was fulfilled which says, "Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness." And he was called the friend of God. 24 You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only. 25 Likewise, was not Rahab the harlot also justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way? 26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

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Please explain to me this text.

Matthew 5:16-19 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works and glorify your Father in heaven. 17 " Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. 18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled. 19 "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Have heaven and earth passed away?
have all of it been fulfilled?

Dear Brother Chris. It is me again.

Quote:

""The Apostle Paul calls the giving of the Ten Commandments, written and graven in stone, the ministration of death.""

Brother Chris, could you please point out, in the Ten Commandments, which ones are the ministration of Death. What part of the Ten Commandments that would lead you to believe that Paul was talking about the Ten commandments. I know you will say that he mentions the stone part of it, but tell what part of it, do you think paul was referint to.

Cause for me, the Ten Commandments is all about Love between me and God, and me and my neighbour.

Your comments will be very much appreciated.

Jayme.

Dear brother phillip.

Quote: """These are the people headed for the second death, those that are not God's son's of God with Christ Jesus, old testament saints, the
Tribulation saints. This is the Great white throne Judgement of God, all those that are not elect."""

Now, we have established that this is the second Death, and by what are they going to be judged?. By their faith, by their works?

Let's talk about the Saits. How are they going to be rewarded?

We Know brother that our Justification comes only by faith in Christ. NO one is argueing that. But in the other hand my Faith is reflected in my works, they go together, cannot have one without the other.

Revelation 22:11-14 "He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still." 12 " And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work. 13 "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last." 14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.

Was Abraham Justified by faith alone? by works alone?
Welll we know that by faith he believed God and by offering his son as a sacrifice he confirmed his faith by his works.

I have faith in Jesus Christ. I believe he is the Son of God that takes away all my sins. My life without Him woul be empty and without hope.
But God made various promises to those to keep his commandments. I keep his commandments with joy in heart. I want put myself in a position where God will sanctify me.
Is the promises and blessings only for Israel. I totally disagree with it.

Isaiah 56:1-7 Thus says the LORD: "Keep justice, and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come, And My righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil." 3 Do not let the son of the foreigner Who has joined himself to the LORD Speak, saying, "The LORD has utterly separated me from His people"; Nor let the eunuch say, "Here I am, a dry tree." 4 For thus says the LORD: "To the eunuchs who keep My Sabbaths, And choose what pleases Me, And hold fast My covenant, 5 Even to them I will give in My house And within My walls a place and a name Better than that of sons and daughters; I will give them an everlasting name That shall not be cut off. 6 " Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants -- Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant -- 7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain, And make them joyful in My house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar; For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations."

Do I want to be included in this blessing? most definetely. YOu might say that we do not have to keep the sabbath, which I disagree, but even if we didn't, God said he would give a special blessing for those who do his commandments.

Brother wherever there is a promise of blessing, I will do it, for there is nothing in this life that I want more than receive his blessings.

1 John 5:1-3 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

Gods commandments to me is a delight. it is not burdensome at all.

How can you even consider the fact that God wants to give me a whole day of rest. no worries about this life, a day dedicate to Him so we can rest. How can I possibly look at it and think it is burdensome?

I have never heard someone saying that to rest is burdensome.

Don't look at the SAbbath as something full of do and don'ts. Something that you have to do in order to be saved.

The SAbbath is a day to look at as a blessing from God to us. A day to remember, that God is creator, he is the only true living God, and I will not take his name in vain by breaking his commandments. Remember that God did not completely destroy Israel for their disobedience because of His Name's Sake. What would the other nations think about his name.

I wish you would consider to at least try to rest on the sabbath. Just as an experience, you would be amazed with the results.....but I know in my heart that this is something that you would not even consider, which is too bad..

God bless you brother....

Bother Phillip

Quote: ""Old testament saints keeping the commandments and keep the Faith.

Not The son's of God that live by the Faith of the Son of God. We don't keep the faith, we live in His Faith, and it is eternal by the Christ in us.""

we have discussed it brother, I do not believe there is a separation between israel and the gentiles, for Paul said that God is the Same God of the Jew and of the Gentiles.

You have not commented on the text about the New Jerusalem, or do you think we will be living somewhere else.

I also think it is very convenient, every time there is a text in bible that there is only one interpretation, you then say, oh well this if for israel, not us.

Jesus said it very clearly, the saints. He did not say the patience of the Jews that keep my commandments and have faith in me.

You are putting a separation between the israel and us that doen't exist. We will all live together in the New Jerusalem, which will have many mansions. mansions are houses not cities.

You keep writing galatians 2:16-20, but we have gone down this road uncountable times. Paul is talking about Justification, go search in the dictionary what justification is: it means acceptable. I cannot be acceptable to God through my works. But I can demonstrate my love for him by keeping his commandments, by doing what he asks me.

John 14:14-16 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it. 15 " If you love Me, keep My commandments. 16 "And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever --

John 14:20-21 "At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him."

Brother phillip I have tried to answer all your questions, the ones I haven't answered is because the answers were obvious but i will do now. Please go back in the posts and do answer some of my questions as well..

you quoted Romans 2:16-29, Brother it is very clear in the text that what Paul is trying to tell us. Half of the text you posted here is about circumcision, you can see from the text that there were people trying to get the new converts to turn to circumcision, and I have said before that the Ceremonial law was abolished.
Paul is saying here that you cannot just choose to keep the commandments that suits you or that pleases you. for it is clear that if you break one all the others are made of no effect.
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You asked:

Whose Spirit is in us? "Holy Spirit"

Whose Heart do we have? "we have a new heart in jesus"

Why does God Praise the Born Again?

"not sure I understood the question."
But I would say, because we have come to Him through His Son.

Who is our Righteousness?"Definetely My Jesus and my saviour"

Whose nature being the uncircumcision do we have?

Romans 2:26-27 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law?

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YOu asked:

Who can keep the Law, perfect?

When you say law, do you mean the ten commandments? because if do, then I have to repeat this again.

Brother, with the exception of the Sabbath, which I think is as important as any other commandment, otherwise God would not have included in his Holy Law.

I sure hope you are keeping all the other nine, because you are not, then I think you have something to worry about Brother.

Do you have other gods?
do yo take his name is vain?
do you make images to worship?

""Do you keep the Sabbath? ""

do you honour you mother and father?
do you murder?
do you commit adultery?
do steal?
Do you bear false testimony, or lie?
do you covet?

I am pretty sure brother Phillip, with the exception of the Sabbath, you are pretty much a law keeper.

So, can we keep the law perfectly? most definetely Yes, yes, yes. otherwise, we are saying that God is an unjust God for giving us something that we cannot fulfil. Is it that you are saying?
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I am also crucified in Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me. and that is why I want to do His will, not mine. And it is by his grace that when I fall and sin against my God, I have the assurance that by repetence and confession sins and my faults are forgiven. But does that gives me the right to sin as I please so grace may abound, not at all.
For sin is lawlessness.

Brother phillip, I like you, believe in everything the Apostle Paul preached. I am justified by faith, not by works. I am not a slave of the ceremonial laws, that includes food offerings, drink offerings, the Ceremonial Sabbaths, festivals, animal sacrificial, circumcision and all that.
All of that I have in Christ, he fulfilled all of that for me. The new covenant I have with him is much better, although the old one was glorious, for they pointed to the spotless lamb of God. The new one is even more glorious, for I go straight the Him for remission of my sins.

I have Christ in me, Do I still sin?

unfortunately, yes. don't you?

Aren't you sometimes driving and some cutts you off, or toot at you, and all of the horrible things drivers do, nowadays. don't you sometimes say or think things that are not really appropriate for Christians to think and verbalise?

I do, I am not proud to say it but I am not ashamed to admit it either. but when this happens, I go to Jesus and I ask him for forgiveness and I say please help me to control this. I don't want to do this but I still do, but with the Help of my Jesus I will overcome this faults, so that I can be more like Him and less like me.

we will only be perfect in heaven, but until then Brother day to day life will always be a struggle, at least it has been for me.

But having said that, will I just go on doing it? for all I have to do is to repent. not at all, I have to do my share on the process of becoming more like Him, That is what it is all about, to become like Him.
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Brother Phil.

My quote:1 Timothy 1:5-6 Now the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience, and from sincere faith.

Here we have the purpose of the Law, right?
it listed only good things, Love, Good conscience and a sincere faith.

Then you wrote:

Quote: "brother here is a problem. the word commandment in the greek means instruction, charge, but does not refer to the 10 commandments. you cannot interchange the 10 commandments everytime you see the word commandments. in the first verse of this passage, paul says that he was called by the commandment of God. this word is not talking about the 10 commandments. it means authority. so we have to be careful when using the same english word to talk about different greek words.

Dear brother Phil, The commandment I was refering to is found on verse 5, not first.

Please go back to a message you posted here on 2007/9/19 21:23. You claimed that Paul was talking about the Ten Commandments.

Just in case you don't remember here it is exactly what you wrote:

"but we know the law is good if one uses it lawfully, knowing this: that the law is not made for a righteous person, but for the lawless and insubordinate, for the ungodly and the sinners, for the unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for fornicators, for sodomites, for kidnappers, for liars, for perjurers, and if there is any other thing contrary to sound doctrine, according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God which was committed to my trust." (i timothy 1:8-11)

paul tells us the law is not made for the righteous, but for the unrighteous. he obviously is not talking about the ceremonial law because the ceremonial law was not used against the liar, adulterer, murderer, unrighteous, lawless, fornicator, and profane. so he is talking about the moral law. so paul says that the moral law (10 commandments) are not made for the righteous, but the unrighteous.

So brother you have to decide what it really is, you cannot say it is one thing and later change you mind and say it is something esle.

You claimed it was the Ten Commandments.

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But just to give you something to think about. What does Paul mean when he said:

1 Timothy 1:12-17 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.

Where does the Apostle Paul places himself as far as sinners are concerned? is it a fair guess to say, the Chief, the worst.
Now then, did Jesus come to save Righteous people or Sinners? Aparently Sinners and the Apostle Paul placed him at the top of the list.

You are right, the Righteous do not need the law, The righteous do not need Jesus either, for he came to save sinners. The Problem Brother is that Paul pretty much put us all in the same sinning situation.

Romans 3:10-18 As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one; 11 There is none who understands; There is none who seeks after God. 12 They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one." 13 "Their throat is an open tomb; With their tongues they have practiced deceit"; "The poison of asps is under their lips"; 14 "Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness." 15 "Their feet are swift to shed blood; 16 Destruction and misery are in their ways; 17 And the way of peace they have not known." 18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes."

So, are we all under the Law?
or are there righteous people that do not need Jesus blood to cleanse them from their sins?

Dear Brother Phil.

I want you to know that at any time , the thought has crossed my mind of you trying to be vicios to me. If I give you this impression, please do forgive.

We are not here to get angry with anybody, or to offend anybody. I am here because I want to study the word of God, I want to learn, and I have to say that since I have started writing here it has been a blessing for me. You have mentioned the fact that it stinks communicating by computer, but I would not have it any other way. I will not talk about this with anybody in person. As much as we want to be loving brothers, the conversation always gets heated up and most of the times the blessing is lost because the participants inevitably end up screaming at each other. One trying to speak louder than the other. So I still think that this is the best way, you say what you want to say, and then I have my turn, and vice versa.

You quote:

the purpose of the law is to point to Christ. now here in your deuteronomy passage, moses is setting before them 2 ways of living. according to God's way or their own destructive way. for them, it would be beneficial to follow God's way. but moses was not just talking about the 10 commandments. he was talking about obeying the whole law (moral and ceremonial).

That is it brother, You got it.
But if you read in Hebrews about the new covenant. You will see that we do not need the ceremonial Law anymore, for Christ is the sacrifice for atonement for our sins. You are definetely correct to say that the ceremonial law pointed to Christ. But all the requirements for those Laws were nailed to the cross. Paul said if the old covenant was fautless we would not need a new one.

Hebrews 8:7 - 9:15 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah -- 9 "not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 "None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 "For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more." 13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. NKJ Hebrews 9:1 Then indeed, even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and the earthly sanctuary. 2 For a tabernacle was prepared: the first part, in which was the lampstand, the table, and the showbread, which is called the sanctuary; 3 and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All, 4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant; 5 and above it were the cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat. Of these things we cannot now speak in detail. 6 Now when these things had been thus prepared, the priests always went into the first part of the tabernacle, performing the services. 7 But into the second part the high priest went alone once a year, not without blood, which he offered for himself and for the people's sins committed in ignorance; 8 the Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. 9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience -- 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation. 11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.

Note that Paul is talking about the new covenant.

To whom dows he say the new covenant is for?
Israel and the house of Judah?

For those who thinks that there is still a division between Israel and the Gentiles. I would like to ask, where is the new covenant made specifically for the gentiles?

Brother tears of Joy,

Thank you for your unexpectedly message.

Brother I do spend most of my online time in this site talking about the Sabbath. it is my right do spend my time here as I please.

I am not trying to be vicious to you but you are the tenth person who have written to me about this. It really doesn't concern me what you do here so please stop wondering what other people are doing here. It shouldn't bother you how I spend my time here.

My words may seem harsh but I feel like I am being bulied here. you are not the first one trying to shut me up, but the tenth.

I have tried not to offend anybody here, I have treated everybody with respect. So What is wrong with me spending my time here?

Please do forgive me if I have offended you.

Dear brother Phil, Let me answer the last part of your message.

Quote:
I ask you then, how do I use the law the right way so it becomes good?

Moses said , if you obey them is a blessing, but if you don't then it is a curse.

Why was it a curse, because if you broke one of the laws(Ten Commandments) then you would have to go to the ceremonials laws to cleanse your sins. You would have to sacrifice an innocent animal, which simbolised Christ as an atonment for your sin. Isn't it a curse having to kill the innocent?

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Quote:

"I use it to show the unbelievers in verses 9 and 10 that they have broken God's holy law and that they under His judgement until they repent and place their faith in Him. "

Brother I keep asking this and so far have not received an answer.

You tell the unbeliever that he broke the Holy Law of God. Then the unbeliever becomes a believer, then he asks you, what about the Holy Law of God, what do you say? Now that you are a believer it became the useless Law of God. for if the Law doesn't have any use, it become useless.

It doesn't make sense. because even after becoming a believer he needs the guidance of the law to reveal what sin is. We all know what sin is and without the law there is no sin. Before Adam and Eve sinned, there wasn't a law, but God gave them a commandments. they did not obey, and here we are today.

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Quote:
"""""""here is a question for you. can you use the law bad?? if paul tells us the law is good if we use it right way, then what is the wrong way to use the law?? ""

Brother, the right way to use the law, is the way God commanded you to. Jesus used to get very angry with the scribes and Pharisees, for their used the law for their own benefit an glory, not the glory of God. and Jesus many times mentioned that they preached man made laws, not the law of God...

Mark 7:6-7 He answered and said to them, "Well did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: 'This people honors Me with their lips, But their heart is far from Me. 7 And in vain they worship Me, Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.'

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Quote:
"i know that immediately you will say that the ceremonial laws passed away and i will agree with you, but i think you have taken the ceremonial sabbath and applied it to the moral law sabbath. that to me is the mistake that i see with what you are saying."

Brother, You said that I have taken the ceremonial SAbbath and applied it to the moral Sabbath? Not at all.
Unless I misunderstood you, that is exactly what you do. To me there is a Sabbath, seventh day(moral law) and Sabbaths(part of the feasts of the Lord that pointed to Jesus)Ceremonial Law.

The seventh day Sabbath, is a statute forever, we will be observing it in heaven according to Isaiah. But the Sabbaths of the Feasts of the Lord, these we are no longer required of us to Keep, for Jesus nailed the law containing the ordinances on the Cross.

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Brother Phillip.

You are the one that claims some laws are for Israel Only.

Dear Brother Phillip.

Quote:
""All Law was for Israel, the Law is perfect. Christ is the Perfection of the Law.""

When it comes to receive the blessings, we are one in Jesus, no Jew, no greek, no gentiles, we are all one in Christ. But when it comes to submit ourselves to the will of God, and do His commandments then the law is holy and only for Israel.

I ask you, didn't Jesus come to save Israel?
Wasn't salvation sent to the Gentiles after Israel refused Christ?

He commanded His Disciple not to go to the gentiles.

Matthew 10:5-7 These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: "Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. 6 "But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 7 "And as you go, preach, saying, 'The kingdom of heaven is at hand.'

I am so glad that the Gospel came to us. By having faith in Jesus we became part of his body. I do not agree to the idea that Israel are under the law(moral Law) and we are not. Jesus is the root we are the branches.
Either there is no law(moral law) at all, and no one is under it or there is a Law(moral law) and everyone is to be subject to it.

Can't just have it your way Brother.

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Quote:

""Why are we to keep the Sabbath and Make it Holy?""

Because God, the Creator of the universe, the creator of you and me gave the Sabbath to us, so we can recognise that God is the One that Sanctifies us.

Nowhere in the bible you will find that Jesus made God's commandments of no effect. He enfatically said that he did not come to change anything, but to fulfil everything in accordance with God's plan. He came to do The will of the Father, Not His will, but the Father's will.

Luke 11:2 "When you pray, say: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven.

Whose will is going to be done? The Father.

I have asked you this before but will try again.

Jesus said he came to fulfil the Law and until heaven and earth pass away, nothing from it would be taken away.

My question to you is. Have heaven and earth passed away?

Please don't say that it is only meant for israel. According to your argument if Jesus fulfilled the Law that was meant for israel than only israel can use your argument that Jesus fulfilled the law for them.

How could Jesus fulfil a law for you that wasn't meant for you? it does not make sense.

Please, when I say fulfilled I do not mean abolished, a lot of people used the word fulfilled meaning abolished and it isn't that at all. For Jesus clearly said that he did not come to abolish but to fulfil.
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Dear Brother Phillip.

You take one verse of the bible and you put together with another and it will say anything you want. Please when you quote bible texts try to includ a couple of versus before and after that way we can see what is the context that the verse was used.

in your last post you quoted one verse from ten different places.

Rom 8:9, 1Cr 2:16, Psa 119:50, Psa 119:93, 1Cr 15:36, Eph 2:1, Eph 2:5, Col 2:13, 1Pe 3:18

all single verses. For me to read your message I will have to go and check every verse individually. to see the context and that is a lot of work.

I will give you an example.
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Matthew 10:2-4 Now the names of the twelve apostles are these: first, Simon, who is called Peter, and Andrew his brother; James the son of Zebedee, and John his brother; 3 Philip and Bartholomew; Thomas and Matthew the tax collector; James the son of Alphaeus, and Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus; 4 Simon the Canaanite, and Judas Iscariot, who also betrayed Him.

1 Corinthians 10:5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.

Does it represent what the verse is meant to? I think not.

I don't mind reading long bible texts, so please quote texts that we can see what the context is. I know that sometimes one verse conveys the idea and that is fine.
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Quote: ""He truly is our Sabbath.
Praise God we can keep the Sabbath 24-7.""

Brother the Sabbath is a day of the Week, and God asked us to keep it holy and it is only one day. not 27/4, this is not what he commanded us.
You are doing things your way, not His.

Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath, not the sabbath itself. otherwise he would have said, I am the sabbath to the pharisees.

and John, in revelation says:

On the Lords day. it is a day, not a person.

Revelation 1:10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a loud voice, as of a trumpet.

We are to have Jesus in our lives 24/7, but that is not the sabbath, the sabbath is the seventh day of the week brother and if you want to keep it holy you will have to do it God's way.

Dear Brother Phil, Thank you for your message.

I am really confused now.

Firstly, you said that he is talking about the Moral law(Ten commandments)""

your words ""paul tells us the law is not made for the righteous, but for the unrighteous. he obviously is not talking about the ceremonial law because the ceremonial law was not used against the liar, adulterer, murderer, unrighteous, lawless, fornicator, and profane. so he is talking about the moral law. so paul says that the moral law (10 commandments) are not made for the righteous, but the unrighteous.""

You said he is talking about the Ten commandments. But then when I said that the purpose of the commandment is love from a pure heart, from a good conscience and from sincere faith.

You wrote back saying:

brother here is a problem. the word commandment in the greek means instruction, charge, but does not refer to the 10 commandments. you cannot interchange the 10 commandments everytime you see the word commandments. in the first verse of this passage, paul says that he was called by the commandment of God. this word is not talking about the 10 commandments. it means authority. so we have to be careful when using the same english word to talk about different greek words.

Brother, Commandment meaning=instruction is found on verse 1, but when mentioned The purpose of the commandment I was reading verse 5. which describes exactly what the Ten commandments are: Pure hear, good conscience and from a sincere faith.

The first Commandment, verse 1, you can change by the word instruction, and you cannot change it by the word law and still make sense. I totally agree with you. Because it says by the commandment of God our Saviour. but on chapter five, it talks about the the purpose of it. Here we can use the word law, Commandments, and it does not change the meaning.

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quote:""1 Timothy 1:6 from which some, having strayed, have turned aside to idle talk.

what is the word "Which" refering to? The Commandment. do you agree? ok moving on...

yes, but remember the commandment in verse 5 is not talking about the 10 commandments per se, but the instructions and commands of the faith.""

is it yes, or no? What does per se mean? you agree but you don't agree?

Brother the Ten Commandments is all about faith and that is exactly what Paul means when he said that the law is good if used lawfully. I have to keep the Ten commandments Because I have faith in God. I have faith that He is the only God, and because of it, I will not take his name is vain, nor make idols for myself. I have faith that in the beginning God created all that there is, including the Sabbath, and He blessed the Seventh day,( you see it is a day. As long as you see the Sabbath day and a burden brother you will never be able to see the Sabbath for what it really is. Jesus said that the sabbath is for us and not the other way around.