courting

some time back someone post some text sermons on courtig.. I was wondering if anyone knew some..
thanks
charlene

This is not a sermon, but a short teaching somewhat helpful to me...

"A Bride for Isaac"

The 24th chapter of Genesis begins with Abraham's realization that the time has come for Isaac to be married. Rather than let Isaac pick one of the local idolatrous ladies, Abraham calls for his servant and gives him a job.

"Travel a thousand miles to my family and find a bride for my son."

You might expect Isaac to go with the servant and pick the woman out for himself, but three times Abraham forbids Isaac to go with the servant to choose his bride. Instead the father sends his servant to find a bride. She must be selfless, brave, and willing to leave everything behind in order to please her God.

The servant tests her by asking for a sign: "Show me a servant who helps strangers." After he meets her he explains why he has come. She agrees to follow him across a dangerous desert to marry a man she hasn't even met. The servant leads the woman a thousand miles, giving her gifts along the way.

Now Isaac is in the field meditating when he sees something in the distance. Not the woman, but camels. Remember that. As they near, the woman asks the servant, is this the master? Yes, he says. She covers her face with a viel. The servant tells Isaac about the miracles God did to bring the woman there. Isaac accepts and loves her. She becomes his bride.

What does this show us? The son represents Christ and the bride represents those who are being saved, lead by the Spirit back to their saviour to be wedded forever with Him (Rev. 22.). Likewise, Paul writes that all men and women are supposed to symbolize this same relationship. Therefore, if we truly desire to be like Christ and the Church, then we must model this same example:

At the right time God will send His Spirit to find a suitable bride, not an idolatrous woman, but a woman from "our own family". This woman is a selfless servant. The Spirit meets her at the place where everyone draws water, i.e. the Word of God, and compels her to follow Him into a life of dedication and trust. He gives her gifts of the spirit. So I know that the woman the God wants is a woman who is in the word and freely shares the word with total strangers.

In turn, men are to be as Isaac, found "in the field" of evangelism which is so white with harvest. Men are to be meditating and praying that God sends more workers into the field. In fact, it says that Isaac was at a place called Beer Lahai Roi, which means "The well of God's vision for life." The man of God is to drink from God's vision for life. He water's the world with God's way of life, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.

When the woman has been lead far enough away from her attachments to the former life then the Spirit will lead her into view. What the man of God sees first is not the figure of the woman but the method of her travel: as Isaac saw camels, so the man of God will see the woman riding upon the gifts of the Spirit.

She asks the Spirit, is this the man? He says yes and she prepares herself by covering her outward beauty with godly humility. She steps off of her camel, which is a picture of the woman willingly lowering herself beneath the authority of her groom.

The Spirit brings her closer to the man of God and tells him, "look at this woman who has left everything behind to follow Me into the pursuit of God's will. Look at how she has crossed a desert of trials, riding upon the gifts of the Spirit. This woman is chosen by God to be the wife of whomever the Father desires and she has proven herself to be a servant of all, a traveler and a sojourner. Accept her and love her." And so the chapter ends with the words, "Isaac loved Rebekkah."

The Father will send His Spirit at the appropriate time to prepare wives for His sons. Until then men must be wholeheartedly in the fields of evangelism and prayer. When she does arrive, the man will know because of two things: he will see her riding upon the gifts of the Spirit instead of walking in her own strength. And the Spirit Himself will testify in the man's heart that God the Father has selected and prepared her, having first proven her worth as a helper by testing her willingness to serve strangers with the Word of Life.

----

Be blessed in Christ, Charlene.

I don't think I have never told in that light.
On grace gems they had on thing story, a little same but not really.. thanks..

I was talking with my broter and sister about dateing. I told don't date. all their eyes got big. what thats what everyone does.. I told
that Gods ways are better then the worlds way.
My little whom is 12 years old had a girlfriend, and she was saying I love you to him and he said it back. I called and tried to talk how foolish it is. My younger sister read I kiss dating good by, but she like the idea of dating someday.

I have seen that there, the way men and women
act to each is way different then we did 50 years ago. The idea of courtship and waiting on God, and praying. Is not in the college age. For 1 1/2 half I worked with college students. I was sad by how fool it is to date just to date.

I was just talking with my cousin the other day about this, and I wanted to send her some stuff too, so thank you so much..

In His love
charlene

No problem, Charlene. Glad it was a blessing.

does anyone else no any?

blessing
charlene

Denny Kenaston has some messages on courting that were a blessing to me (though I've been married five years). Chris

thank you both...
in Christ
charlene

Denny Kenaston has some messages on courting that were a blessing to me (though I've been married five years). Chris

Here are the transcripts of those sermons.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=category&cid=119]Click Here. Scroll down a little ways.[/url]

The audios are also on the site.

Surprised no one has mentioned Joshua Harris yet :-P. Here are some of his audio sermons:
[url=http://www.covlife.org/sermons/dl_dialog.php?filename=../audio/2005_11_27.mp3]Courtship is a Community Project[/url]

[url=http://www.covlife.org/sermons/dl_dialog.php?filename=../audio/2005_11_20.mp3]Courtship, Shmourtship: What really matters in relationships[/url]

Wow, you guys posted some great stuff. The bride for Isaac story was wonderful! A great explanation for biblical courtship! :) Paul Washer's sermons on them are great... Bill Gothard has some good things to say on it too! All very encouraging! :)

The Gothard link was a blessing. Yeah, the Paul Washer ones were pretty intense for me... I was thinking, what if her dad is an unbeliever? And Paul doesn't support men EVER being alone with a woman. A bit drastic, to me, but foolproof!

Lol, there is a part where Paul Washer says (to the young men about being alone with girls) don't even be alone with your cousin, unless she is really ugly! Lol, that was just too funny :)

And if the father is an unbeliever... Gothard gives a good explanation for that situation, and how even unsaved parents are still in a place of authority over us, and God can use them to direct us... even if they aren't saved. I've had to learn this myself because my father isn't a believer... and it's really a matter of humility to obey one's parents (as long as it doesn't go against scripture) when the flesh wants to rebel and say, "What do you know? You aren't even a Christian!" God has used my father in a lot of ways, and I trust that God has placed me under my father's authority for a purpose and I just gotta trust that God knows EXACTLY what He is doing!!! :)

Laura

I think on the most part just a few months ago I would of agreed that paul was a little drastic.

I wasn't brought up in a Christian home. I lived in the world until I was 20. But I didn't understand womanhood or manhood at all. Before I was saved I went after guys, and guys came after me where no rules. I dated for fun, not for marriage.
When I was saved, although I was dead to my old self my pattern was still somewhat the same in many things.
So I started dating a guy. God had freed , even although God had freed me from my pas or us freeing me, I had a desire to be Pure now that I knew Christ.. I had said I wouldn't kiss unless we were to be married. But we did so many other things wrong, like hanging out alone, not having family part of it.. We based on what we felt. it wasn’t biblical it was base on emotions not on Gods will. We have to be careful our hearts can fool us. I was sending all my time with him alone. No one said it was wrong. I couldn't see things clearly because my emotions were keeping me to see. I learned a lot about right and wrong ways of relationship, from it. and how unwise we can be. We are alone with another. We think we are strong. But all I was doing was seeing so close I could get before sinning. Very unwise. Who knows what others thought, I sure when it was meant to be good, look bad.
But being alone with guys never really hit as you need to be ver carful, but there was were sometime it was just fine. until I came to Tucson, my whole world has been turned upside down. And I listen to Paul washer sermon dating..YUmm.. I was praying alone with guys, I was on a prayer team.. I couldn't help I said one else came? and driving in the car alone with brothers. It was safe and fine, just a ride. After they were just brothers. I posted on SI about being alone in the car with a guy, from what people said I took it to heart and started praying about it. What is good in your eyes God? ANd why? Should I never be alone with a guy? and why? I remember paul west posting about never be alone with a guy or guy with a women unless family. Why such rules? Now when I was at the prayer tent I have a guy walk me to me car, and saw nothing wrong with that, it was only when he tried to stay and talk with me for a while.. Of course I think life things come and there can never a firm line, but there can be many other lines drawn to help..

I think there more to be pure, when we hang out alone, it seem evil..
But at least from what I have learned is it the best safe guard for my heart and emotions. I think that we can still be friends and talk with our brothers. and pray and such.
But John Piper talks about true womanhood and manhood.
My father is not living anymore, so who would a guy go to? If he is to go the father? Should a guy go to the father first, before trying to talk with a lady? and why?
I have seen this to be true, How sweet and wonderful it is when it happens. Both of my friends husband did this. I think it bring safety to the women.

I wrote this just a few months ago..after talking with a friend on SI

After I went AL I had some crazy things in the way I see things and God said you need to set rules.. Lady my dear sisters, there many guys out there that don't how to respect young lady with purity please keep your self safe to. as for you guys I know some you this doesn’t apply and I thank you for being a good role model for me. I thank you all. may God grow us to be more pure.

It is my desire to keep my heart and emotions pure.
"Save yourself emotionally for your husband, for your wife. I believe that God’s best, God’s perfect will, God’s sweetest order, as much as possible is that you be a virgin physically, and emotionally when you enter into this matter of marriage."

"Why? I’m saving them for the most precious woman/man in my life. I don’t know who she is yet, but I’m saving them for her. Sorry all of you other young ladies/ guys, this is a prized possession, and I’m saving these emotion for the precious young lady of my life’s partner."

I desire to not allow my feeling to overflow for no one but the man I will someday marry.

"My heart is overflowing with love for you and I want you to know that it’s never overflowed before. I’ve been tempted for it to overflow but I’ve stopped it. By the grace of God, I didn’t allow it to stay". That’s a beautiful way to start, and that’s the right place to end."
No defrauding "stir up desires, that they cannot lawfully fulfill"
Not being a flirt. Not playing with love
taking your responsibilities- Please lead when needed
Never going to be alone with a guy, in a car or in home
Never going to pray alone, maybe at Church with others around
Never talking on the phone, with personal matters
Only hanging in groups
Please don't ask my number for personal reasons
Please open doors, pull out chair
See me as your little sister
Act like a brother acting towards me in purity
Time spent, in groups
Not dating, only that leads to marriage.

I know I far understanding is all I am asking God to keep growing me to be a women of purity.

I am very thankful for everyones post.. It has been very helpful...

IN CHrist, we can do all things
Charlene

"One of the valuable rewards of courtship is the protection of emotions that are stirred up by physical and emotional interaction, until the time when it is clearly God’s will to proceed into marriage.

If, during the time of courtship, one party realizes that this is not God’s will and ends the relationship, it can still be regarded as a successful courtship, because God directed and the individuals were not damaged."

now that my father is dead. My step father feels that he in the place of my father. In the same as Lauras father, he dosn't know the Lord. But I would want his blessing and would want to repect him.
in his love
charlene

"“It is not good for the man to be alone”. It’d like us to recognize that God is the one who recognized it, it was God who noticed that, it was God who looked at his creation, it was God who looked down the road, [and] it was God in His infinite wisdom who looked at the man and said, “It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a help meet for him”. "

"I’m going to make him a helper that is meet to him, that is suitable to him, that is adopted to him, that is compatible to him, that is compared to him, that is a companion to him”. That’s what God was saying. He wasn’t saying, “I’m going to make him a woman so Adam has somebody to help him"

"And verse 22, “And the rib which the Lord God had taken from man made He a woman and brought her unto the man”. Can you just imagine with me a little bit, that meeting? Ponder "

" Can you imagine what that meeting must have been like? She was perfect. She was absolutely perfect, and he was perfect, and he was everything that God wanted him to be, and she was everything that God wanted her to be. Ca you imagine what that meeting must have been like? Bless the Lord."

", “this is now bone of my bone, and flesh of my flesh. She shall be called woman, because she was taken out of man"

"What kind of a relationship do you think they had with a meeting like this? How do you think he felt about her? Do you think he said, “Thank you Lord. Come on, Eve, there’s a lot of work to do in the garden. Let’s go!”. Do you think He looked at her that way? And I know we chuckle about that, but let’s get some depth out of it, too. He didn’t look at her that way. My, he looked at her; “My treasure! My wife! My queen! A gift from God! This gift that God game me! A woman! A wife!”. What kind of relationship do you think they had? "

"Therefore shall a man leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife, and they shall be one flesh”. "
"And man fell, and all of that beautiful order that God had set into motion has been muddled up. It’s been confused. It’s been hated by sin. It’s been infested by a lower nature, and that’s why we’re going to have the rest of this session today, and tomorrow and on Friday, because there is a Genesis Chapter 3.

God wants to restore this beautiful, meaningful part of His order and His kingdom. That is God’s heart."
"

pursue marriage?
Ho do I know when it is time to pursue this awesome relationship called marriage? I believe they’re very wise when the start asking those kind of questions to their fathers, and their mothers and their spiritual leaders"

"First of all, God will help you to know. He’s very concerned about it, He’d very concerned that it’d be right, He’s very concerned that it come forth by the beauty in which we just looked at it, here. I assure you that God will help you to know when it’s time for you to pursue this relationship of marriage"

would that be mne and women eyes on Christ, seeking after him..? Seeking his will.. Much prayer?

"Number two, your parents will be able to discern this. They know you. They know you like nobody else knows you except God. They know you, they know where you’re at, they know the level of your maturity, they know your strengths, they know your weaknesses, they know your walk with God, they know you. Let your parents help you to discern when it’s time for you to pursue this relationship called marriage.

dad's are ver important!!! and mom's

And thirdly, godly leaders will be able to give you some insights concerning this subject. If you have godly leaders in your life (some of you I know you don’t, but some of you do) don’t just pass them by. They can also help you in this area. They also know you. They watch for your soul. They’ve been watching over you. In some situations, they’ve watched you grow up; they’ve known you for five years; they’ve known you for ten years. Let them help you to discern when it’s time for you to enter into this "
That would pastor?
or older men?

blessing
charlene

Denny Kenaston
courtig #1
Number one: one with a vision. One with a vision, one that sees beyond just having a husband or a wife. You want one with a vision higher than that. You want one that sees eternal things as they look down the road, and as they look at marriage and they consider life and the future, and what God’s will is for them. You find one that sees something, that sees godliness, that sees order, that sees a godly family, that sees a testimony, that sees a life message, that sees the work of God, that sees the building of the kingdom. You find one like that. I’ve often said, and I do believe this, don’t even consider the ones that don’t have any vision.

“Well, I want to get married.”

“What for?”

“I need wife! I need a husband!”

“What for?”

“Well, I’d like to have some children.”

Don’t’ go that way. The goals are so much higher than that, so much higher.

Number two: You need one that is virtuous. A virtuous woman, a virtuous man. “A virtuous one? What do you mean one that is virtuous,”? Well, we can look at Proverbs Chapter 31, on the ladies side the most beautiful commentary on a virtuous woman that you’ll ever find in the Bible, and it’s all put together, there, all packed together in all of those verses. And I tell you, you won’t find this kind out in the world, and you won’t find in a worldly Church, usually, because the goals of the women in many Churches today are far from those in Proverbs Chapter 31. But I’d like you to consider Proverbs Chapter 31 when you are looking for a virtuous woman. You find one who’s virtuous like it is in Proverbs Chapter 31. And those are “down home” virtues, the kind that make for an orderly home. The kind that make for a godly home, [and] blessed children. You look for one like that. One that knows how to sew, one that knows how to cook, one that knows how to keep a house, one that would be concerned about children. You look for one like you find there in Proverbs Chapter 31. I assure you, that’s the kind that you need. Forget about the natural beauty. I’m not against that, but if you put that n the top of your list, you may be surprised, young men, and you may be surprised, young ladies. The most beautiful one, the most handsome one, is often not the most virtuous one. I’m not saying it’s always that way, but don’t put it at the top of the list. You take a young lady or young man, you get that heart clear, and clean, and pure, you fill that heart with the grace of God, you let them be filled with the joy of God, and get a radiance on that face, and he’ll be beautiful, and he’ll be handsome, even though he may not have everything just perfect on him. A virtuous woman, but also a virtuous man. There is no Chapter in the Bible on virtuous men. I believe the reason for that is because the whole Bible is there to challenge us men. It’s all there. But you look for a man who’s filled with virtues.

Godly characters: point number three. One who has been developing the qualities of godliness in their life. ..But one who is developing the qualities of godly character, and you know they’re changing, they’re allowing God to work on them in this area, God is purified over here. You look for one like that, who has their focus on godly character, and they’re in the midst of God transforming their life into the beautiful character of Christ.

Point number four, and the one has already been said, but I want to say it again in another perspective, “What kind of partner do I need?”. Consider this matter of authority. Young men, you don’t need a wife who has not found this beautiful place of being under the authority of her father and her mother. You do not need a wife like that. You do not need it. But you say, “But she’s pretty!”, “But I like her”, “But I don’t think it will be a problem!”. Her me, hear me, you don’t need a wife that has not learned the beautiful place of being under the authority of her father and her mother. You don’t need one like that. I’m not saying God can’t work in spite of all of that, but now we’re down here choosing. If I could use Brother Bill as an illustration, you know “Now don’t just walk in there and just stick your hand in that wood lathe”. You don’t need one like that. And young ladies, you don’t need a young man, who has not learned to be under authority. I tell you from experience from watching many, many a home. If he doesn’t know how to be under authority, he will absolutely fail at being in authority. If he doesn’t know how to be under authority, he won’t be a leader. He might stomp on you, he might push you around, but he will not be a leader. If he doesn’t know how to be under authority, he won’t be a leader in a good way, in a positive way. He won’t be one of those who leads out and says, “Let’s go in this direction,”. It doesn’t happen. Secrets, secrets, young men, young ladies. This is a big secret. But really, it’s not, [but] this is one that you don’t want to just pass over in your mind. You need a husband, you need a wife, that has mastered this area of authority.

And lastly, and I said this already, but I’ll say it again, you need one who is in love with Jesus. It’s not enough to say, “Well, she says she’s a Christian.”, “He goes to a good church.”, “He’s in a good youth group,”. It’s not enough to do that. Those things can be put on. There’s plenty of hypocrites around. It’s not enough to say, “I’m a Christian”, it’s not enough to say, “I love Jesus”, it’s not enough to go to a good church, it’s not even enough to be from a good family! That’s not enough! You need to love Jesus, and you need to be able to know that by the testimony of their life.

What about the waiting?
I’d like to encourage you to wait emotionally. Wait emotionally
Save yourself emotionally for your husband, for your wife. I believe that God’s best, God’s perfect will, God’s sweetest order, as much as possible is that you be a virgin physically, and emotionally when you enter into this matter of marriage. I believe that’s God’s perfect will that you be a virgin, not just physically, but emotionally, and I praise God that around here we have the standard of physically purity and virginity. Praise God for that. I just rejoice over it. I’ve been around a lot, it’s a beautiful thing, and we’re blessed that we have that standard. But I tell you, I believe we need to raise the standard a little higher than that, because just like everything else in the Christian life, just like we heard from Brother Phillip today, it’s not the act, it’s the heart. Save yourself emotionally for your husband.

Young men, save yourself emotionally for your wife. How beautiful that a young man can hold his emotions back and watch guard over them, and not allow them to run away, and not give them to this young lady, and then give them to this young lady, and she may not even know that you did it, but you did it. But just hold those emotions in check. Why? I’m saving them for the most precious woman in my life. I don’t know who she is yet, but I’m saving them for her. Sorry all of you other young ladies, this is a prized possession, and I’m saving these emotion for the precious young lady of my life’s partner.

Young ladies, you do the same. You put a reign on your emotions. Put a reign on them. Don’t let them go. If I could just encourage you sisters, throw away all of those romance books. I mean that. I don’t even you try to figure out what’s wrong with them, I think you need to do it just because I told you to throw them away, because they’re ruining you.
What should you do? Young men, what should you do? Should you build a big business? Should you make a bunch of money while you’re waiting? No, you won’t mature if you do that. You’ll be waiting a long time. Don’t do that; use these years of waiting to deepen your relationship with God and your relationship with others. Use these years of waiting as a motivation to holiness and to purity. Use these years for that. Use your desire to get married, to have a wife, use that motivation to change your whole life.
The motivation to have a wife, what a powerful thing it is?

"The first word it the word “court”. That’s where we get our word “courtship”. The word “court” means this: “Devoted attention in order to win favor”. Now, we use that word “court” in many ways, but of course the way we’re using it here, today, is in the area our relationships. “Devoted attention in order to win the favor of a young lady” is the context that we’re giving it in, and that is the historical context of the word “courtship”. If you trace it back, that is the way that is was used.

Alright, the next word we want to look at in definition is the word “flirt”. I’ll just give the words in the dictionary, they are very revealing. I had to think as I was studying this word “flirt”. I don’t think any of the young people are going to want to do this anymore, or want to have anything to do with the word “flirt”. It means, “To court triflingly,” and courtship is a very serious thing. It means “to express emotions of love without serious intent”. It means, “to play at love”. It means, “to toy with love”. Those are very interesting definitions, aren’t they? And that’s exactly what it is! Young people who flirt, they make a game out of one of the most serious relationships of life. They make a game out of it. They turn it into a toy; they think it is something that they can play with. (I.E.) “Let’s see how this happens, and let’s see what this is, and let’s see how this feels, and let’s see how she reacts to this”. They are making a game out of the most serious relationship of their life. I don’t think you want to do any flirting."

"Alright, the next word we want to look at is the word “dating”. And some of these words are just modern American words, but we have to look at our definitions so we can decide whether we like these words or not, and whether we want to use these words, and whether we want to enter in what these words mean. “Dating” is “a temporary romantic relationship”. It happens all the time in the world. Some that are sitting in this room know what I’m talking about. It gets pretty close to what whole area of “flirting”. (I.E.) “I want to see what love is all about. I want to play with it for a while, so I’m going to enter into temporary romantic relationships”. And I know that in this room, we don’t have much of a problem with that. That’s freely done in the world as they get together, but in God’s people, this is often done in a more of a secret way. The young people, they often have temporary romantic relationships, also, but they do it a little bit more secretly because they know it’s allowed to be done like the world does it. They do it through thoughts, little looks, notes, little talks, long stares across the room, sparkling eyes, that’s how they do it. They ride in the same car when the young people are going to a certain place, they just “end up” in the same car, and I could expound on that one quite a bit today, but I think you know what I’m talking about. Often he young people say, “Oh, we’re not dating”, or maybe if the pastor comes an says to the parents, “What’s going on here?”, they say, “Oh, they’re not dating. They’re not dating”. Well, we have to question that."

"A few scriptures here, Matthew Chapter 5, as relating to this matter of Godly courtship, and all that surrounds it. You don’t need to turn to these, I’m just going to read them to you quickly. “Blessed are the pure in heart”.

Second one is in 1st Timothy 5:12 where it says, “Young men, treat the younger women as sisters, with all purity”. Now, what that means to me is, “Young men, you treat all of these sisters over here, except the one that you feel like God would have you to court and marry, just like you do your sister.

2nd Timothy Chapter 2, verse 22 says, “Flee also youthful lusts”. Stay away from them. There are lusts which the youth are tended to that as you grow older, you’re not so tended to them. God says in His word admonishing you to flee those youthful lusts. That means as we have so clearly have heard this week already, you stay away from them. Don’t you get near them."

Denny Kenaston