What is the Gospel?

I'm just wondering how everyone here at SI defines the Gospel.

How do you define or understand the Gospel?

That which GOD has done for us in Christ.

Amen!

Perhaps even more succinctly the Gospel is Christ. If the work relies upon us, we're doomed from the beginning, so anything emanating from us is not the Gospel. The Gospel is 100% outside of us, and done for us, and then brought into us by the Holy Spirit's work of regeneration.

To get this wrong is a travesty of immense proportions.

Col 1:18-22 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence.
For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;
And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven.
And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblamable and unreprovable in his sight:

or in short:

Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Is the sum of the gospel then the reconciliation of sinners? Or is it more than that?

Jesus Christ , who is very God, born of a virgin, came to the earth He created to purchase back fallen man, to purchase him back from satan and sin and show man the way he could have again the original relationship with God that was intended and in the end to inherit eternal life. This same God suffered died and was buried to pay for our redemption, on the third day He rose from the grave to secure our justification and is seated at the right hand of the Father. As evidence of such He sends the Holy Spirit of promise who leads and guides those he has redeemed in the ways of God on earth and into heaven for all eternity.

I know that this is simplistic and there is much I did not include, like repentance and sin and etc.... but, I like simple but even in simple there is alot that falls between the lines. it's called real life.

i think the gospel is preaty much sumed up in

Heb 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

believe and repent and be saved.

The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation for everyone that believes.

I agree with this. But is this really a definition of the gospel or the result of proclaiming it? (Rom. 1:16-17)

Prov. 2:1 My son, if you receive my words,
\tAnd treasure my commands within you,
2 \tSo that you incline your ear to wisdom,
\tAnd apply your heart to understanding;
3 \tYes, if you cry out for discernment,
\tAnd lift up your voice for understanding,
4 \tIf you seek her as silver,
\tAnd search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 \tThen you will understand the fear of the LORD,
\tAnd find the knowledge of God.
6 \tFor the LORD gives wisdom;
\tFrom His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
7 \tHe stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
\tHe is a shield to those who walk uprightly;
8 \tHe guards the paths of justice,
\tAnd preserves the way of His saints.
9 \tThen you will understand righteousness and justice,
\tEquity and every good path.
10 \tWhen wisdom enters your heart,
\tAnd knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
11 \tDiscretion will preserve you;
\tUnderstanding will keep you,
12 \tTo deliver you from the way of evil,
\tFrom the man who speaks perverse things,
13 \tFrom those who leave the paths of uprightness
\tTo walk in the ways of darkness;
14 \tWho rejoice in doing evil,
\tAnd delight in the perversity of the wicked;
15 \tWhose ways are crooked,
\tAnd who are devious in their paths;
16 \tTo deliver you from the immoral woman,
\tFrom the seductress who flatters with her words,
17 \tWho forsakes the companion of her youth,
\tAnd forgets the covenant of her God.
18 \tFor her house leads down to death,
\tAnd her paths to the dead;
19 \tNone who go to her return,
\tNor do they regain the paths of life—
20 \tSo you may walk in the way of goodness,
\tAnd keep to the paths of righteousness.
21 \tFor the upright will dwell in the land,
\tAnd the blameless will remain in it;
22 \tBut the wicked will be cut off from the earth,
\tAnd the unfaithful will be uprooted from it.

In Christ
Jeff

Prov. 2:1 My son, if you receive my words,
And treasure my commands within you,
2 So that you incline your ear to wisdom,
And apply your heart to understanding;
3 Yes, if you cry out for discernment,
And lift up your voice for understanding,
4 If you seek her as silver,
And search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 Then you will understand the fear of the LORD,
And find the knowledge of God.
6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
7 He stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
He is a shield to those who walk uprightly;
8 He guards the paths of justice,
And preserves the way of His saints.
9 Then you will understand righteousness and justice,
Equity and every good path.
10 When wisdom enters your heart,
And knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
11 Discretion will preserve you;
Understanding will keep you,
12 To deliver you from the way of evil,
From the man who speaks perverse things,
13 From those who leave the paths of uprightness
To walk in the ways of darkness;
14 Who rejoice in doing evil,
And delight in the perversity of the wicked;
15 Whose ways are crooked,
And who are devious in their paths;
16 To deliver you from the immoral woman,
From the seductress who flatters with her words,
17 Who forsakes the companion of her youth,
And forgets the covenant of her God.
18 For her house leads down to death,
And her paths to the dead;
19 None who go to her return,
Nor do they regain the paths of life—
20 So you may walk in the way of goodness,
And keep to the paths of righteousness.
21 For the upright will dwell in the land,
And the blameless will remain in it;
22 But the wicked will be cut off from the earth,
And the unfaithful will be uprooted from it.

In Christ
Jeff

I'm confused, perhaps some commentary?

Here is the most concise summary I can give to you. May it aid you in understanding and communicating God's truth.

The Gospel:
God is holy. Whatever is unholy is punished by God in hell forever. Yet God has graciously made a way through Jesus Christ for unholy things to become holy and go to heaven.

Here is a slightly longer explanation:

Background:
God is unimaginably holy and pure. The slightest disobedience to His commands is called sin. Every sin ever committed is viewed by God as a crime against His perfect holiness. By nature God hates all sin with infinite hatred. All sinners and every sin will be judged by God and compared to the infinite righteousness of Himself. He will destroy whatever comes short.

The Problem Brought Closer:
God made man for the purpose of worshiping and serving Him, but all men have sinned and fall short of the glorious standard of God. God keeps His word - He has promised prove His justice by destroying anyone and everything that is not perfectly righteous and pure. For this purpose God has made a place called hell where He will isolate sinners from all goodness forever.

The absence of goodness is deeper than you or I can fathom. A place without goodness is a place without hope, joy, peace, and love. The absence of hope is total despair. A place without joy is a place of wailing misery. A place of no peace is a place of unending, agonizing torment. God describes hell as a lake of fire that never ceases to burn. It will make men weep and gnash their teeth, and they will hate God forever in this place because they honored themselves and their sin more than Him.

God is just and fair, thus the severity of this punishment shows us how holy God must be, and how sinful our sins are.

The Problem Made Worse:
On the Day of Judgment God will not accept bribes or excuses. No amount of so-called good works will make up for the slightest sin. God is disgusted that a you would dare to consider your heart pure enough to approach the holiness of God. He is not satisfied that you think (wrongly) that He is a loving father-figure waiting to bandage your ruined soul at death. (At this point you must keep in mind that God is not evil because He wants to destroy you, but rather you are so blinded and corrupted by the sins that you are an addict of that you cannot see how deserving of death you are. This God truly is right, and you are bitterly wrong and deceived by sin.) In short, all men are utterly hopeless in themselves because they have sinned against the holiness of God and will be judged, found guilty, and damned.

The Gospel:
God was willing to make His love and forgiveness known by providing a way of salvation for a people He would save by grace through faith. For this reason God the Son came in the humble form of a man, named Jesus. He lived perfectly and sinlessly and was persecuted by self-righteous men. According to the will of God, He offered His life as a sacrifice for sins and paid the ransom of the debt owed by sinners. He was brutally beaten and hung on a painful cross. Then the full wrath of God the Father was poured on Jesus as He bore the eternal penalty that you and I deserve. “Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many.” [Heb 9] Three days later God raised Jesus from the dead to prove His victory over death. He appeared to hundreds of witnesses and then ascended into heaven. He now sits at the throne of God the Father, ready to forgive all who repent and believe on Him.

How to be saved:
You cannot save yourself by any amount of self-guilt or promises to live better. God alone saves and He does not have to save you. He saves only those He chooses to save, and He saves them only because He has chosen to show grace to some. No one deserves grace or else it would not be grace. However, God promises that all who repent and believe on Christ shall be saved.

This means that if you are willing to forsake your life of sin, forsake control of your earthly destiny, and willing to surrender yourself to the commands and will of God; and if you believe that Christ was a worthy sacrifice for your and all sins, then you may have confidence that God is saving you. But do not stop here. Many people come this far and then stop because they think they have repented but in their heart they were satisfied to hold on to certain sins. You must be born again of God's Spirit. Do not cease to repent and believe and to pray for forgiveness until He very clearly and undeniably changes your heart and mind. By the grace of God get rid of and destroy every known sin in your life. Pray night and day and shake heaven until He saves you from the old life you lived.

What then?
All who are saved by God love and grow in holiness. If after time you do not love and grow in holiness, you were not and will not be saved by God. You must repent and believe. You must be born again.

I pasted this thought from Brother Patrick from another thread....

By Christ and His intercession for them. Consider 1 Corinthians 1:30 "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:"

We often speak of the gospel, the good news. In the above Scripture we find that Jesus, as high priest, provides for us and is for us, "wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption." If one studies what Solomon wrote in Proverbs chapter 2 we find that through God's intervention in man's life each is given the opportunity to be adopted by God and removed from the world which is evil.

Since the fall of man, man has been given both the knowledge of good and evil. Because Sin entered this world in the spiritual realm through Satan, man has been held in captivity to him and death. Yet man is not left to only the influence of Satan but Scripture also states that there exists a way in which man may escape his captivity.

Look for the "job description" of Christ in the first 9 chapters of Proverbs. Look to beyond what is seen. Look to the spiritual world that Scripture teaches of. Look to the work of the Holy Spirit in these chapters and how she "wisdom" lights a path that leads to righteousness. Also look to the immoral woman, and how this spiritual guide leads many to the pits of hell.

Proverbs 2 points out the good news to all who hear and do. Christ's job description is to free the captives.

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff

Thanks for the clarification Jeff.

The reason why I asked the question in my first post "What is the gospel?" is because I've been wondering if we miss it when we think of the gospel as Jesus died to save you. (I agree that Jesus died to save men btw)

In other words, the gospel is not "Jesus died to save you" though that's a part of it. More specifically I believe the gospel is defined and proclaimed in Acts ch2 culminating in verse 36, "Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified both Lord and Christ."

This is the Gospel proclaimed. To this point in Peter's sermon there was no call to repentance, only a proclamation that Jesus is Lord. The call to repent and believe came after and as a result of the proclamation of the gospel.

In other words, believe, repent and be saved because Jesus died for the sin of the world is a fruit of gospel preaching, rather than being the gospel its self.

I know this is subtle but it contains great implications especially in evangelism. There's no more convincing, there's only knowing Christ and Him crucified. It explains the revelation of the Righteousness of God revealed in the gospel manifesting faith and also the wrath of God revealed from heaven manifesting ungodliness and unrighteousness. To explain: Why are lives set right and sins forgiven? Because Jesus Christ is Lord. So also: Why is there no peace in the world, rather it's filled with hatred and violence? Because Jesus Christ is also Lord over those who do not believe and is actively resisting them resulting in ungodliness and unrighteousness in men who do not lack the truth, but suppress it in unrighteousness. (Rom. 1:16-18, Psalm ch2)

Proclaiming "Jesus is Lord" if I'm correct then should always proceed "Repent and believe."

Thoughts?

[i]edited for clarification[/i]

Reply to Hulsey
Greetings and peace to all
God has made it possible for us to know Him through His Son whom came as a man. The Gospel is a man called Jesus that walked among men as man’s friend. A man that could be touched and handled and fellow shipped with. A man that laid down His life, forsaken by His friends on a cruel Roman cross that as many believed that He was the Son of God full of glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Friends of Jesus who by faith willing lay down their lives and except Him as their Prophet, Priest and King. Friends that take part in His resurrection and gather in His Kingdom of Light and truth.
Friends healed and ministered to by The Word Of God that reveals our Father to us.
Friends who speak the words of truth inspired in us by God’s Holy Spirit so those who are lost in darkness and perdition can also come to the Light and have fellowship with the living.

Jesus is the good news, He is our portion, Our life , our holiness, our redemption, our righteousness. He is the first born of the new creation, the last of the old creation, he ascended on high and became the perfect sacrifice for all mankind, and He sent the Holy Spirit to draw all men unto Himself. Give your all to Jesus, and He will become your all in all. Jesus is the Gospel, whosoever puts their trust in him , will never be put to shame.

love in Christ Tom

What is the Gospel? Christ in you.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Colossians 1:12-29 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Phillip

Brother Jeremy wrote:

The reason why I asked the question in my first post "What is the gospel?" is because I've been wondering if we miss it when we think of the gospel as Jesus died to save you. (I agree that Jesus died to save men btw)

Gal. 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God the Father and our Lord Jesus Christ, 4 who gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age, according to the will of our God and Father, 5 to whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

Coming alongside you brother, Paul writes this above...

"He gave Himself for our sins, that He might deliver us from this present evil age...."

The reason Christ gave Himself for our sins, according to Paul, is that He might deliver us from the present evil age. The question then is, How does He deliver us from this present evil age?

In the book of Proverbs in chapter 2 we have this thought...

1 My son, if you receive my words,
\tAnd treasure my commands within you,
2 \tSo that you incline your ear to wisdom,
\tAnd apply your heart to understanding;
3 \tYes, if you cry out for discernment,
\tAnd lift up your voice for understanding,
4 \tIf you seek her as silver,
\tAnd search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 \tThen you will understand the fear of the LORD,
\tAnd find the knowledge of God.
6 \tFor the LORD gives wisdom;
\tFrom His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
7 \tHe stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
\tHe is a shield to those who walk uprightly;
8 \tHe guards the paths of justice,
\tAnd preserves the way of His saints.
9 \tThen you will understand righteousness and justice,
\tEquity and every good path.
10 \tWhen wisdom enters your heart,
\tAnd knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
11 \tDiscretion will preserve you;
\tUnderstanding will keep you,
12 \tTo deliver you from the way of evil,
\tFrom the man who speaks perverse things,

In this Scripture we learn that "wisdom" is given to those who obey and learn from Him. The promise for those who obey is this..."When wisdom enters your heart, and knowledge is pleasant to your soul...this process...then will preserve those who hear and obey. They who believe are given understanding. This grace that is given "delivers you from the way of evil...."

This work of God through Jesus Christ is meant to, as Paul teaches,

"that He might deliver us from this present evil age,"

The work of Christ is to seperate us from this evil age. Listen again to Proverbs...

10 \tWhen wisdom enters your heart,
\tAnd knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
11 \tDiscretion will preserve you;
\tUnderstanding will keep you,
12 \tTo deliver you from the way of evil,
\tFrom the man who speaks perverse things,
13 \tFrom those who leave the paths of uprightness
\tTo walk in the ways of darkness;
14 \tWho rejoice in doing evil,
\tAnd delight in the perversity of the wicked;
15 \tWhose ways are crooked,
\tAnd who are devious in their paths;
16 \tTo deliver you from the immoral woman,
\tFrom the seductress who flatters with her words,
17 \tWho forsakes the companion of her youth,
\tAnd forgets the covenant of her God.
18 \tFor her house leads down to death,
\tAnd her paths to the dead;
19 \tNone who go to her return,
\tNor do they regain the paths of life—

Here in the above Scripture we are given a picture of what God defines this evil age to be...

For those who enter in to His rest, they will find the beauty of the truth that reveals the works of Christ in us to free us from the bondage of Satan and of perverse men in this age of evil...

This is the Good News...

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff

Brother Phillip quoted this Scripture...

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom;

Paul preaches, "warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom" about the "riches of the glory of this mystery."

Again let us go to Proverbs to learn more of this mystery...

Proverbs 1:

Prov. 1:1 The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel:
2 \tTo know wisdom and instruction,
\tTo perceive the words of understanding,
3 \tTo receive the instruction of wisdom,
\tJustice, judgment, and equity;
4 \tTo give prudence to the simple,
\tTo the young man knowledge and discretion—
5 \tA wise man will hear and increase learning,
\tAnd a man of understanding will attain wise counsel,
6 \tTo understand a proverb and an enigma,
\tThe words of the wise and their riddles.

Solomon writes of this same mystery.

He writes, "A wise man will hear and increase learning,
\tAnd a man of understanding will attain wise counsel,
\tTo understand a proverb and an enigma,
\tThe words of the wise and their riddles.

The Holy Spirit, as our conselor, will illuminate the word of God in a way that the world does not understand. But for those who "increase learning" for those who obey, the will be given the ability to "understand a proverb and and enigma, the words of the wise and their riddles."

According to God, the wise of this world are fools according to God's wisdom. The 'wise" that Solomon is refering to are those who hear and do the commands of God according to His Word and His Voice.

In Christ
jeff

I LIKE YOU ANSWER

thomasm wrote

"Jesus is the good news, He is our portion, Our life , our holiness, our redemption, our righteousness."

The struggle to not splinter into men led groups.

Cain cannot save you, either can anything in the old testament except Law. All the commandments in the old testament have a consequence, if you don't do them you are condemned. None of the commandments in the new testament have condemnation. In Paul's epistles alone there are over 355 commandments to to do good and none of them carry condemnation. They are done out of Love for the Work God has done in us. When we believe we receive not only the Holy Spirit of God in us, but we receive the Life and New Nature of being birthed by God with the Incorruptable Seed of Christ born again in us. Cain was not born again or Able or even Moses, Abraham, David or Nicodemus, the highest Israel had to offer when it came to the Keeping of the Law God had commanded them to keep, and even Nicodemus did not understand. How can Cain and Able be expected to understand the Mystery Paul reveals to us in all his epistles.

Grace and mercy in the old testament must be different, they did not have the Holy Spirit in them or The Birth of The Son of God in them.

For it is now by Grace you are save through Faith, not of the Law or Works which no man can be saved by. Christ in you, The Holy Spirit, not just on you or with you, but in you, this is the Mystery Paul speaks about always in all his epistles, given him direct by Jesus Christ Himself, if it were not a new way of salvation, it would not have been a Mystery hidden from all generations. It is God who made this Mystery, that is Christ in you the Hope of Glory in His plan for before He ever planned the earth and man. "The Lamb slain from the foundation of the World" and Man "chosen in Christ before that foundation".

Nothing in the old testament has our salvation revealed in it except the promise of Jesus Christ being brought through Israel, a 14 year old virgin would be with child, by the Seed of God Himself through the Holy Spirit, giving birth to the Only Begotten Son of God. Now that we believe by the Holy Spirit, we are rebirthed the same way. The Spiritual, Sexual, The Greatest act of Love possible, Sperma of the Father placed in the believer by the Holy Spirit because we believe the Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

John 3:15-18 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (((((For God so loved))))) the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1 Peter 1:22-23 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The whole list in the old testament, Cain, Able, Moses, David, Abraham, etc, none had this birthing and were save by God's mercy through the Law and what they did.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

Jhn 16:31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

Jhn 17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

Christ is our Justification to New Life, The Life of God birthed in us by the Son of God.

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Why put a yoke upon the neck of all who are in Christ?

Acts 15:8-11 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

Even unto all those that believe, it is God who for His good Pleasure causes us to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved, not Cain or Able etc.

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Have you received the Word of God concerning His son Jesus Christ?

1Th 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received [it] not [as] the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

In Jesus, Who are these?

1Ti 1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

Old testament Saints will be with God their Husband, new testament Saints will be with their Husband, Christ. One to earthly benefits, one to heavenly benefits.

1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

Believe What?

Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

1Pe 1:21 Who by Him (Jesus Christ) do believe in God, that raised Him up from the dead, and gave Him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe [He is] precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the Stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

Who are the builders? Israel

1Jo 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

1Jo 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

1Jo 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Having eternal life in Christ: Phillip

thomasm,A big AMEN to what you said.I would also like to add: the good news to the jew was that mesiah had already come the vail was rent and now no more need for animal sacrifice. sin can now be washed away with Gods blood.And for the gentile he can be a grafted in jew. With full benefits.
THIS IS SO AWESOME
....David

psalm 1 wrote:

thomasm,A big AMEN to what you said.I would also like to add: the good news to the jew was that mesiah had already come the vail was rent and now no more need for animal sacrifice. sin can now be washed away with Gods blood.And for the gentile he can be a grafted in jew. With full benefits.
THIS IS SO AWESOME
....David

David understood this also

Psalm 51

16 \tFor You do not desire sacrifice, or else I would give it;
\tYou do not delight in burnt offering.
17 \tThe sacrifices of God are a broken spirit,
\tA broken and a contrite heart—
\tThese, O God, You will not despise.

Listen to the "wisdom" that the Holy Spirit gave to David...

Psa. 51:0 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David when Nathan the prophet went to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.

Psa. 51:1 \tHave mercy upon me, O God,
\tAccording to Your lovingkindness;
\tAccording to the multitude of Your tender mercies,
\tBlot out my transgressions.
2 \tWash me thoroughly from my iniquity,
\tAnd cleanse me from my sin.
3 \tFor I acknowledge my transgressions,
\tAnd my sin is always before me.
4 \tAgainst You, You only, have I sinned,
\tAnd done this evil in Your sight—
\tThat You may be found just when You speak,
\tAnd blameless when You judge.
5 \tBehold, I was brought forth in iniquity,
\tAnd in sin my mother conceived me.
6 \tBehold, You desire truth in the inward parts,
\tAnd in the hidden part You will make me to know wisdom.
7 \tPurge me with hyssop, and I shall be clean;
\tWash me, and I shall be whiter than snow.
8 \tMake me hear joy and gladness,
\tThat the bones You have broken may rejoice.
9 \tHide Your face from my sins,
\tAnd blot out all my iniquities.
10 \tCreate in me a clean heart, O God,
\tAnd renew a steadfast spirit within me.
11 \tDo not cast me away from Your presence,
\tAnd do not take Your Holy Spirit from me.
12 \tRestore to me the joy of Your salvation,
\tAnd uphold me by Your generous Spirit.

There is a remnant that walked in the way of Abel in each generation...

In Christ
Jeff

Brother Phillip wrote:

Cain cannot save you, either can anything in the old testament except Law. All the commandments in the old testament have a consequence, if you don't do them you are condemned. None of the commandments in the new testament have condemnation. In Paul's epistles alone there are over 355 commandments to to do good and none of them carry condemnation.

How does what you wrote compare to Scripture?

Rom. 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Gal. 6:7 Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever a man sows, that he will also reap. 8 For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.

Col. 1:21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister.

What does the word "if" mean in Scripture?

In Christ
Jeff

Psalm 1

Psa. 1:1 \tBlessed is the man
\tWho walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
\t\tNor stands in the path of sinners,
\t\tNor sits in the seat of the scornful;
2 \tBut his delight is in the law of the LORD,
\t\tAnd in His law he meditates day and night.
3 \tHe shall be like a tree
\t\tPlanted by the rivers of water,
\t\tThat brings forth its fruit in its season,
\t\tWhose leaf also shall not wither;
\tAnd whatever he does shall prosper.
4 \tThe ungodly are not so,
\tBut are like the chaff which the wind drives away.
5 \tTherefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment,
\tNor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6 \tFor the LORD knows the way of the righteous,
\tBut the way of the ungodly shall perish.

This is another section of Scripture which speaks of the Gospel. Only by the power of the Holy Spirit can one be like the tree. Only by the power of the Holy Spirit can there be a "congregation of the righteous."

Just a thought

In Christ
Jeff

Brother Phillip wrote:

For it is now by Grace you are save through Faith, not of the Law or Works which no man can be saved by.

This was also true of another generation, according to Paul's teaching...

Romans 11:
4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” 5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

How does this Scripture compare to your understanding?

In Christ
Jeff

There was a remnant chosen and set aside for Himself and one of them was Able, then by God Himself was the only way Able could. Able did not bow the knee to Baal, because He was chosen by God and set aside.

We are chose in Christ by believing and God is the One that gives the believing to those that are in Christ. We did not choose Him but He chose us. Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Jhn 15:19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

In Christ: Phillip

If: ei ei i
a primary particle of conditionality; if, whether, that, etc.:--forasmuch as, if, that, (al-)though, whether. Often used in connection or composition with other particles, especially as in 1489, 1490, 1499, 1508, 1509, 1512, 1513, 1536, 1537. See also 1437.

eige eige i'-gheh
from 1487 and 1065; if indeed, seeing that, unless, (with negative) otherwise:--if (so be that, yet).

ei de mh(ge) ei de me(ge) i deh may'-(gheh)
from 1487, 1161, and 3361 (sometimes with 1065 added); but if not:--(or) else, if (not, otherwise), otherwise.

ei kai ei kai i kahee
from 1487 and 2532; if also (or even):--if (that), though.

ei mh ei me i may
from 1487 and 3361; if not:--but, except (that), if not, more than, save (only) that, saving, till.

Etc. depending on the context of what one is reading.

Perfect,

Romans 11:27-36 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

By this in Christ: Galatians 2:14-21 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

In Christ: Phillip

There was a remnant chosen and set aside for Himself and one of them was Able, then by God Himself was the only way Able could. Able did not bow the knee to Baal, because He was chosen by God and set aside.

So then based on what you have said above, the OT saints also entered into the grace of God.

According to Scripture are these OT saints empowered by God to be both righteous and do righteous works?

In Christ
Jeff

Quote:

""So then based on what you have said above, the OT saints also entered into the grace of God.""

Yes, but without the birthing of Christ in them and they will still have to live on this earth with Christ as King, ruled by Christ on David's Throne. Old Testament Saints, earthly. Not New Testament Saints, Heavenly.

John 14:1-12 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know, and the way ye know. Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; and how can we know the way? Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

These works cannot be done by old testament saints. Only those that are in Christ, born again.

In Christ: Phillip

Quote:

""According to Scripture are these OT saints empowered by God to be both righteous and do righteous works?""

No. Only by God's merciful Grace will they be saved and be ruled by Christ on this earth in the millennium.

Rom 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

Isa 41:26 Who hath declared from the beginning, that we may know? and beforetime, that we may say, [He is] righteous? yea, [there is] none that sheweth, yea, [there is] none that declareth, yea, [there is] none that heareth your words.

Only God is Righteous and the Christ that is born again in us making us righteous by The Father birthing His Son in the Believer, "New Creatures" in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

In Christ: Phillip

Brother Phillip wrote:

No. Only by God's merciful Grace will they be saved and be ruled by Christ on this earth in the millennium.

Jesus testified of Abel...

Matt. 23:31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

John also writes according to the Holy Spirit that was in him...

1John 3:10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother. 11 For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, 12 not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother’s righteous.

So, according to Scripture, is your understanding based on Scripture or a man's doctrine?

In Christ
Jeff

Here is another testimony of one who know's righteousness...

Psa. 119:1 \tBlessed are the undefiled in the way,
\tWho walk in the law of the LORD!
2 \tBlessed are those who keep His testimonies,
\tWho seek Him with the whole heart!
3 \tThey also do no iniquity;
\tThey walk in His ways.
4 \tYou have commanded us
\tTo keep Your precepts diligently.
5 \tOh, that my ways were directed
\tTo keep Your statutes!
6 \tThen I would not be ashamed,
\tWhen I look into all Your commandments.
7 \tI will praise You with uprightness of heart,
\tWhen I learn Your righteous judgments.
8 \tI will keep Your statutes;
\tOh, do not forsake me utterly!
9 \tHow can a young man cleanse his way?
\tBy taking heed according to Your word.
10 \tWith my whole heart I have sought You;
\tOh, let me not wander from Your commandments!
11 \tYour word I have hidden in my heart,
\tThat I might not sin against You.
12 \tBlessed are You, O LORD!
\tTeach me Your statutes.
13 \tWith my lips I have declared
\tAll the judgments of Your mouth.
14 \tI have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies,
\tAs much as in all riches.
15 \tI will meditate on Your precepts,
\tAnd contemplate Your ways.
16 \tI will delight myself in Your statutes;
\tI will not forget Your word.
17 \tDeal bountifully with Your servant,
\tThat I may live and keep Your word.
18 \tOpen my eyes, that I may see
\tWondrous things from Your law.
19 \tI am a stranger in the earth;
\tDo not hide Your commandments from me.
20 \tMy soul breaks with longing
\tFor Your judgments at all times.

This is another example of the power of the gospel found in Scripture...

In Christ
Jeff

Quote:

"So, according to Scripture, is your understanding based on Scripture or a man's doctrine?'

My Salvation is based on what Paul says, in the New Testament.

Ephesians 2:7-10 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Ephesians 1:2-6 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.

Colossians 1:26-28 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Galatians 1:3-9 Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

Galatians 2:16-20 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

What is your salvation based upon? The works of the Law?

In Christ: Phillip

What is your salvation based upon? The works of the Law?

By the hearing of the word of God and then acting upon what I hear.

Brother, do you see that Scripture testifies that God enabled men in the OT like Abel to both know Him, His righteousness, and then do what He asked them to do?

Do you believe Abel was righteous?

In Christ
jeff

Modern dispensationalists have carried their doctrine of the carnal Christian to such absurdities as claiming that you can't tell a carnal believer from a lost man because they both act the same way. This explains how Christians can steal, lie, commit adultery or suicide and still go to heaven. It has even been taught that a carnal Christian can fall away from the faith, cease believing, and still be eternally secure.

Jesus taught this idea in this way...

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. 35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever. 36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.

Jesus taught that a 'slave of sin" does not abide in the house forever. Listen to the condition that Jesus places before those whom He taught that day...

John 8:31 Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

We all come to God, still ravaged by our sinful past. Jesus conditionally promises 'If" you abide in My word...you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free." The word of God is able to free those who are slaves of sin.

While the Holy Spirit convicts the nominal Christian that they are not ready to meet God,

Is "nominal Christian" another word for what Scripture teaches on "babes in Christ?' A babe in Christ is not able to understand the things of the Spirit according to Paul's teaching....

Passages apparently teaching conditional security

I would like to add one more which ties in everything said previously...

Rom. 8:12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.

Here Paul teaches that a born again believer has a choice, and then receives what is sown...

"For (if) you live according to the flesh you (will die); (but if) by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live." () added to highlight conditional statement....

Overall, I believe that those who continue to allow the word of God to have it's way in the life of a believer, the ongoing obedience (faith to faith) will convince the believer of the love that God has for the believer. This love overcomes the old man. This love creates the substance of what is hoped for, the evidence of what is not seen.

Our path creates the evidence of what we hope for. Only by hearing the word of God does one know where to walk.

In Christ
Jeff

He_Reigns wrote:

"Nominal" means, "in name only". Those professing to be Christian - not babes.

I should have worded my response more clearly...Paul teaches that those who he considers to be carnal christians are babes in Christ. Paul points to the fact that distinguishes a babe in Christ as one who does not understand Spiritual things...

1Cor. 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3 for you are still carnal.

I have found that Scripture teaches us of a progression in understanding. Those first weaned are considered children. If you read through 1 John, you will find that the majority of his instruction is pointed at the children of the congregations. Yet John also identifies that there is a difference between the children, young men, and fathers within the congregation of believers...

1John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

1John 2:12 I write to you, little children,
\t\tBecause your sins are forgiven you for His name’s sake.
13 I write to you, fathers,
\t\tBecause you have known Him who is from the beginning.
\t\tI write to you, young men,
\t\tBecause you have overcome the wicked one.
\t\tI write to you, little children,
\t\tBecause you have known the Father.

1John 2:18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour.

1John 2:28 And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.

1John 3:7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous.

1John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth.

1John 4:4 You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.

1John 5:21 Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen.

The argument of active faith or believ-ing rests on -- "The present participle is used 48 times which denotes continuous action. This accounts for over half of all the usages we are considering."

This "continuous action" is the process by which the "little children" begin to follow the Spirit. This process continues to stretch and grow those who diligently take part in this "continuous action."

The little children are grown spiritually into young men who are said to have the word of God abiding in them strongly. This abiding of the word enables them to discern both good and evil...

1 John 2:

14 I have written to you, fathers,
\t\tBecause you have known Him who is from the beginning.
\t\tI have written to you, young men,
\t\tBecause you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
\t\tAnd you have overcome the wicked one.

Until one is able to discern the spiritual battle one often reacts according to the 'old man" ways of doing things.

What John MacArthur does not point out, is the other part of the argument...that is the present day preacher teaches that one can be a carnal christian (babe in Christ, according to Scripture) and once saved always saved. This teaching leads many astray...

Jesus taught that a slave of sin does not abide in the house forever and Paul teaches that one who sows according to the flesh will die a spiritual death.

Do you see the distinction that Scripture presents here?

God Bless
Jeff

The Gospel in poem form.
I wrote this a few years ago.

Jesus has a love for us
that no one can compare
a love that had to pay a price
that no one else could bare
he bore the weight of all our sins
and took them to the ground
to bare our own iniquities
we would surely drown
praise the lord he rose again
our God for us sinners slain
trust in him and as promised
he'll free us from our chains.

yes, the gospel is Who Jesus is, what he has done for us and what he is doing in us..
freeing us from the power of sin and bondage.
and bringing us into right relationship with our father in heaven.

Some people use the term "full gospel" in respect to an inclusive gospel doctrine (everything from Genesis to Revelation is considered full gospel, gifts of the spirit, baptism of the HS, etc..). Tell me, is there a difference between the notion of a full gospel as opposed to the gospel of Jesus Christ?

Thanks,
sonya

Tell me, is there a difference between the notion of a full gospel as opposed to the gospel of Jesus Christ?

There is no difference...Jesus Christ is the word of God, the Alpha and the Omega. All Scripture reveals the work of Christ in those who enter into a life lived by faith. The OT is full of instruction as to this mystery that Paul preaches about. Even the oldest book of the bible gives us the "good news" of a life that finds his or her Savior...

Job knew his Savior...

Job 19

Job 19:23 "Oh, that my words were written!
Oh, that they were inscribed in a book!
Job 19:24 That they were engraved on a rock
With an iron pen and lead, forever!
Job 19:25 For I know that my Redeemer lives,
And He shall stand at last on the earth;
Job 19:26 And after my skin is destroyed, this I know,
That in my flesh I shall see God,
Job 19:27 Whom I shall see for myself,
And my eyes shall behold, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me!

This is the Gospel that he heard...

Job 36:5 "Behold, God is mighty, but despises no one;
He is mighty in strength of understanding.
Job 36:6 He does not preserve the life of the wicked,
But gives justice to the oppressed.
Job 36:7 He does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous;
But they are on the throne with kings,
For He has seated them forever,
And they are exalted.
Job 36:8 And if they are bound in fetters,
Held in the cords of affliction,
Job 36:9 Then He tells them their work and their transgressions--
That they have acted defiantly.
Job 36:10 He also opens their ear to instruction,
And commands that they turn from iniquity.
Job 36:11 If they obey and serve Him,
They shall spend their days in prosperity,
And their years in pleasures.
Job 36:12 But if they do not obey,
They shall perish by the sword,
And they shall die without knowledge.[fn1]

Job 36:13 "But the hypocrites in heart store up wrath;
They do not cry for help when He binds them.
Job 36:14 They die in youth,
And their life ends among the perverted persons.[fn2]
Job 36:15 He delivers the poor in their affliction,
And opens their ears in oppression.

All those who live by faith, who hear the word of God and do it will be as Scripture above states...

Job 36:7 He does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous;
But they are on the throne with kings,
For He has seated them forever,
And they are exalted.

In Christ
Jeff

He_Reigns wrote:

Jeff - I see "carnal" differently - more as Paul meaning "those who should know/do better".

Paul begins his letter to the Corinthian church in this manner...

1Cr 1:1 PAUL, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,

1Cr 1:2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

1Cr 1:3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Cr 1:4 I thank my God always concerning you for the grace of God which was given to you by Christ Jesus,
1Cr 1:5 that you were enriched in everything by Him in all utterance and all knowledge,
1Cr 1:6 even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you,
1Cr 1:7 so that you come short in no gift, eagerly waiting for the revelation of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1Cr 1:8 who will also confirm you to the end, that you may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
1Cr 1:9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of His Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

In this section of Scripture we find that the Christ was confirmed in them. Paul states that they have received all things pretaining to Christ. Yet there is a problem...

Paul identifies that many of the Corinthian church are "babes in Christ."

A little further in to Paul's evaluation of the Corinthian church this is what he has observed...

1Cr 4:14 I do not write these things to shame you, but as my beloved children I warn you.
1Cr 4:15 For though you might have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet you do not have many fathers; for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

Here again we see that Paul is writing to the children of the congregation. Paul points out that thought there might be 10000 instructors yet there are few fathers...

What seperates a "babe in Christ" a "child" who may even teach the word of God from a "father in Christ?"

God Bless
Jeff

The Final Gospel by Warren Litzman:

There are great numbers of believers who do not know there is a final gospel. For centuries theologians have erroneously maintained that there is only one gospel in the Bible. This is grave error but worse is the fact that such untruth has kept multitudes unaware that Christ lives in them and is their only life to God (Gal. 2:20). Why would anyone maintain such an idea when the Scriptures are so clear? I see that there are at least five reasons for this grave oversight and confusion of interpretation.

1) When believers are denied the facts of the seven dispensations in the Bible, they can never know who God is talking to or why. The study of the different dispensations open up the fact that God had a different message in each one of the dispensations. When you see this it becomes simple to see that God had a different message for the Gentiles. While God has but one plan it is broken into many different parts. Seeing this difference is knowing your Bible.

2) Unless you know the difference between the ministries of Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus our Lord, you can never understand the final gospel. When Jesus of Nazareth was sent to Israel He came to His own, but His own received Him not. The facts concerning His coming to Israel is one great truth, but Jesus, the Lord of our life, was sent to live in believers, whether Jews or Gentiles. Such an idea as this is not an extension of the work or words of Jesus of Nazareth. While it is the same Jesus that healed the sick, raised the dead, cast out devils and performed miracles and is the same Jesus that lives in believers today, the gospel for these two different works of God require two different messages.

3) This confusion over the final gospel exists because of the denial, by many, of the Apostle Paul’s message which he called my gospel. Paul must be accepted as God’s last voice for the ultimate truth. He is the last God appointed Apostle, he is the final teacher of grace and his words alone set the pattern for modern believers “Follow me as I follow Christ (I Cor. 11:1).” Unless you follow Paul it will be difficult to know Christ in His fullness as Paul says three different times, “God gave the final gospel to me to give to you” (Eph. 3:17, Col. 1:25, I Cor. 9:16-17).

4) Most believers do not know the radical division there is in the Scriptures. That is the difference between prophecy and the mystery. Prophecy occupies at least 4/5 of the Bible and is based on law and legalism. Paul’s teaching on grace is the message to the born-again and only occupies 1/5 of the Bible. The final gospel, the mystery, is to be found mostly in the 1/5. This by no means nullifies the 4/5 of the Bible.

5) The misplacement and the misuse of the Holy Spirit has kept many from the final truth. Most have erroneously taught the Holy Spirit is Christ. They teach that the believer is only “in Christ” when the believer receives the Holy Spirit. However, the life is only in the Son, Christ’s Spirit is joined to our spirit, and the Holy Spirit is joined to our soulish part (the mind) and is the teacher of the Christ-life.

End.

Paul speaks of the Gospel that God allowed him to call "his Gospel, or My Gospel", This is the Gospel that Jesus Christ Gave to Paul personally and only to him that are Born Again and live our life by the Christ that is birthed in us.

Colossians 1:20-29 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

He Received it not of Man, but of Jesus Christ Himself.

This is the "final Gospel" We had the Gospel of Moses by God Himself. We had the Gospel of Jesus Christ to Israel.

Now the Final Gospel: Galatians 1:10-24 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus. Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. Now the things which I write unto you, behold, before God, I lie not. Afterwards I came into the regions of Syria and Cilicia; And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ: But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed. And they glorified God in me.

In Christ: Phillip

By Warren Litzman

Why follow Paul?

There are many religionists who believe following Paul is heresy. I would have felt the same way many years ago. But by the Holy Spirit’s leading I came to see that the Scriptures are plain. The only way that a born-again believer can follow Christ is by first following Paul. This is not a mere idea of my own. It is a truth that is firmly stated many times in the Scriptures (I Cor. 4:16, I Cor. 11:1, Phil. 3:17, Phil. 4:9, Gal. 4:12, II Thes. 3:7, II Thes. 3:9, II Thes. 3:4). These 8 Scriptures give a heavy weight of truth to the fact that Paul received something special from Christ: something that belonged only to the born-again and the Gentiles. Look at the special things Christ gave only to Paul.

1) Paul alone gave us pure grace. In the Old Testament, the word “grace” is usually translated to be “mercy.” Mercy is good, but not pure grace. Mercy is contingent on the recipient doing something to make it possible. This is the opposite of grace. Sadly, too many believers today are being taught mercy instead of grace. In Christianity, grace alone is sufficient (II Cor. 12:9).

2) Paul alone was given the message that the law of Moses and the laws of the Old Testament are abolished at the cross (Eph. 2:15, Col. 2:14). Most believers today are not taught this because modern religion cannot operate without law. Most born-again believers without the fullness of Paul’s revelation will live and die always worried about their law keeping.

3) Paul alone gives to the born-again their final gospel. He received from Christ a message that was strictly to the Gentiles (Acts 28:28), and was not a part of, or even a shadow of the Old Testament or prophecy. It begins in the latter part of Jesus of Nazareth’s ministry in Gethsemane and ends with the rapture of the church (I Thes. 4:15-17). The key to the final gospel is the in-Christ position. The first aspect of in-Christ position was when the sin of the world went into His body as He drank the cup in Gethsemane. From then on everything Paul writes about is contingent on being in-Christ.

4) Paul alone is the one to whom the revelation came that Christ lived in Him (Gal. 1:16-17). The revelation did not come to Peter or James or John or anyone else. Christ in the believer is strictly a Pauline truth. It is truth that was never known by mortals until it was given to Paul (Eph. 3:3-6). It is not only the final gospel, but it is the only workable gospel for today’s believers. Yet most believers know little of nothing about it as they are fed man-made religion daily¾devoid of Paul’s revelation.

5) Paul is the only one in the Scriptures that had a right to say the revelation Christ had given him was “my gospel” (Rom. 16:25, Rom. 2:16, II Tim. 2:8). This is important to our understanding. Since no one in the Old Testament knew this final gospel and since Jesus of Nazareth did not teach this gospel (He taught Moses law) and since no other disciple or Apostle preached this message, it is well that Paul called it his gospel. It is sad that modern religion has not picked up Paul’s gospel. Multitudes could be blessed if they did.

End.

The Gospel of God to Israel, The Gospel of Jesus Christ to His own, The Gospel of Paul by Jesus Christ's final Gospel. This final Gospel is The Gospel of Christ in you the Hope of Glory, a real change in the creature from created to Heirs of God with the birth certificate of God the Father, He is the Birth Right written Father on our birth certificate. Jesus Christ the Seed of the Father in us which produced The last Adam, Jesus Christ and produces Him in us now. John 3:15-17 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1 Peter 1:18-25 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

"by the Logos of God" The Word of God.

John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

In Christ: Phillip

Thanks Phillip

A great change, happened at the cross, and was brought into fullness on the day of Pentecost.
When Jesus said: " It is finished " he wasn't talking about his life. he was talking about this great salvation, this new covenant, this new creation, Adam was the first creation, Jesus was the first born of the new creation, this perfect restoration of all things that were lost in the fall, perfect fellowship with God, the sinful nature destroyed, crucified with Christ, born again with the nature of God. These aren't just words to hang on to, this is a reality now is this life, for all who will dare to throw off their own understandings, and trust Him, the scriptures are all about Him, and this great salvation. In Him we lose ourselves and enter into His perfect rest, where we stop our struggles and working and Jesus Himself becomes our life.
love tom

And our Father in heaven has revealed this truth to us, by His Holy Spirit. Amen

By all the Love that is God in Christ Jesus and He in us. Phillip

Brother Thomas wrote:

the scriptures are all about Him, and this great salvation. In Him we lose ourselves and enter into His perfect rest, where we stop our struggles and working and Jesus Himself becomes our life.

Yes, all the Scriptures are about Him....Listen to what Paul preaches to the Colosians

Col 3:16

Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

This is what Christ called Paul to do in his ministry...

Act 26:17 'I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now[fn1] send you,
Act 26:18 'to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.'

The ministry of the Psalmists also points God's way out to those who hear...

Psa 119:1 PSALM 119
BETH
Psa 119:9 How can a young man cleanse his way?
By taking heed according to Your word.
Psa 119:10 With my whole heart I have sought You;
Oh, let me not wander from Your commandments!
Psa 119:11 Your word I have hidden in my heart,
That I might not sin against You.
Psa 119:12 Blessed are You, O LORD!
Teach me Your statutes.
Psa 119:13 With my lips I have declared
All the judgments of Your mouth.
Psa 119:14 I have rejoiced in the way of Your testimonies,
As much as in all riches.
Psa 119:15 I will meditate on Your precepts,
And contemplate Your ways.
Psa 119:16 I will delight myself in Your statutes;
I will not forget Your word.
GIMEL
Psa 119:17 Deal bountifully with Your servant,
That I may live and keep Your word.
Psa 119:18 Open my eyes, that I may see
Wondrous things from Your law.

Here we see in the last verse this man's prayer...Lord, "open my eyes, that I may see Wonderous things from Your law...

Faith finds it source in the word of God speaking to us in a way that delivers us from the grasp of Satan. Those who hear and obey the Spirit of God will be transformed into the image of His Son. For we are Co Heirs with Christ...

One must walk with Christ to be a Co-heir...

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff

Here we see Now: That we be strengtened in the Spirit of the Inner Man which is Christ in you the Hope of Gory. This is Now, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
This is salvation by Grace through Faith.

Ephesians 3:14-21 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Here we see then:

""Here we see in the last verse this man's prayer...Lord, "open my eyes, that I may see Wonderous things from Your law...""

This is salvation by the Law? Psa 119:17 Deal bountifully with Your servant,
That I may live and keep Your word.
Psa 119:18 Open my eyes, that I may see
Wondrous things from Your law.

Old Law, earthly, New Grace, Heavenly.

This is where we live and move and have our being, that is Christ in you the hope of Glory.

Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

No heavenly places in Christ Jesus in the old testament earthly sacrifice and Law.

But, heavenly works are this: Rom 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, [which is] your reasonable service.

Presenting your bodies, the living sacrifice of self to allow the Christ that is in us to do the works greater than Jesus of Nazareth. For we no Him no longer in the Flesh, but the Spirit.

2Cr 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.

We only know Him by His Spirit that birthed in us.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

And, His Prayer has also sent us the Holy Spirit Teacher of Heavenly things, that is Christ.

Jhn 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Brother Phillip wrote:

Here we see Now: That we be strengtened in the Spirit of the Inner Man which is Christ in you the Hope of Gory. This is Now, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
This is salvation by Grace through Faith.

Psalm 119:

45 \tAnd I will walk at liberty,
\tFor I seek Your precepts.
46 \tI will speak of Your testimonies also before kings,
\tAnd will not be ashamed.
47 \tAnd I will delight myself in Your commandments,
\tWhich I love.
48 \tMy hands also I will lift up to Your commandments,
\tWhich I love,
\tAnd I will meditate on Your statutes.
49 \tRemember the word to Your servant,
\tUpon which You have caused me to hope.
50 \tThis is my comfort in my affliction,
\tFor Your word has given me life.

What does the Psalmist mean by "walk in liberty," and what has the word of God given him when he declares "life?"

Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

The Scripture here says that the glory of the church by Christ Jesus spans "all ages."

Old earthly, New Heavenly.

Job 36

5 \t“Behold, God is mighty, but despises no one;
\tHe is mighty in strength of understanding.
6 \tHe does not preserve the life of the wicked,
\tBut gives justice to the oppressed.
7 \tHe does not withdraw His eyes from the righteous;
\tBut they are on the throne with kings,
\tFor He has seated them forever,
\tAnd they are exalted.

In the oldest book of the Bible we find that God exalts the righteous, whom God has seated on thrones with kings forever...

Brother Phillip do you believe Scripture when it says that God exaults the righteous of the OT?

In Christ
Jeff

Brother Phillip wrote:

This is Now, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.
This is salvation by Grace through Faith.

Is not this love, and it's breadth, and length, and depth and height...also found in the OT church?

Have you ever considered the love story given to us in the OT....

Song of songs....

About this book Matthew Henry writes as an introduction...here is part of what he writes...

This song might easily be taken in a spiritual sense by the Jewish church, for whose use it was first composed, and was so taken, as appears by the Chaldee-Paraphrase and the most ancient Jewish expositors. God betrothed the people of Israel to himself; he entered into covenant with them, and it was a marriage-covenant. He had given abundant proofs of his love to them, and required of them that they should love him with all their heart and soul. Idolatry was often spoken of as spiritual adultery, and doting upon idols, to prevent which this song was penned, representing the complacency which God took in Israel and which Israel ought to take in God, and encouraging them to continue faithful to him, though he might seem sometimes to withdraw and hide himself from them, and to wait for the further manifestation of himself in the promised Messiah. 2. It may more easily be taken in a spiritual sense by the Christian church, because the condescensions and communications of divine love appear more rich and free under the gospel than they did under the law, and the communion between heaven and earth more familiar. God sometimes spoke of himself as the husband of the Jewish church (Isa. 64:5, Hos. 2:16, 19), and rejoiced in it as his bride, Isa. 62:4, 5. But more frequently is Christ represented as the bridegroom of his church (Mt. 25:1; Rom. 7:4; 2 Co. 11:2; Eph. 5:32), and the church as the bride, the Lamb’s wife, Rev. 19:7; 21:2, 9. Pursuant to this metaphor Christ and the church in general, Christ and particular believers, are here discoursing with abundance of mutual esteem and endearment. The best key to this book is the 45th Psalm, which we find applied to Christ in the New Testament, and therefore this ought to be so too. It requires some pains to find out what may, probably, be the meaning of the Holy Spirit in the several parts of this book; as David’s songs are many of them level to the capacity of the meanest, and there are shallows in them learned, and there are depths in it in which an elephant may swim. But, when the meaning is found out, it will be of admirable use to excite pious and devout affections in us; and the same truths which are plainly laid down in other scriptures when they are extracted out of this come to the soul with a more pleasing power. When we apply ourselves to the study of this book we must not only, with Moses and Joshua, put off our shoe from off our foot, and even forget that we have bodies, because the place where we stand is holy ground, but we must, with John, come up hither, must spread our wings, take a noble flight, and soar upwards, till by faith and holy love we enter into the holiest, for this is no other than the house of God and this is the gate of heaven."

What about the love of God for the saints of the OT? What kind of love is it?

In Christ
Jeff

Quote:

Psalm 119:

45 And I will walk at liberty,
For I seek Your precepts.
46 I will speak of Your testimonies also before kings,
And will not be ashamed.
47 And I will delight myself in Your commandments,
Which I love.
48 My hands also I will lift up to Your commandments,
Which I love,
And I will meditate on Your statutes.
49 Remember the word to Your servant,
Upon which You have caused me to hope.
50 This is my comfort in my affliction,
For Your word has given me life.

What does the Psalmist mean by "walk in liberty," and what has the word of God given him when he declares "life

This is Law that leads to Life and liberty.
This is not the life of Christ in you that is Life of Liberty.

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

You cannot be a son unless birthed by a Father.
Birthing only began after the Cross. Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

2Cr 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.

The Spirit of Christ birthed in you. "He who has not the Spirit of Christ is non of His"

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

This was the spy bus from Jerusalem, to bring them back into bondage to the Law.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

Works, yes, but the works of Christ in you.

Jam 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth [therein], he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Christ is that perfect Law that we continue in, these works will be blessed, for they are greater that Law works.

Jhn 5:20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and He will shew Him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.

Jhn 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Put these two together and see the works we will do by the Christ in us. Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

There is a prerequisit to this phrase: Quote: Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen

Ephesians 3:16-21 That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

That prerequisit is Christ in you.

reaching for straws?

In Christ: Phillip

Quote:

In the oldest book of the Bible we find that God exalts the righteous, whom God has seated on thrones with kings forever...

Brother Phillip do you believe Scripture when it says that God exaults the righteous of the OT?

Yes, by the mercy of God and them keeping the Law, His remnant he has saved for Himself of Israel and before but not since. That is by Grace through the Faith of Jesus Christ that is birthed in us.

In Christ: Phillip

Brother Phillip wrote:

Yes, by the mercy of God and them keeping the Law, His remnant he has saved for Himself of Israel

According to Scripture no one is made righteous by keeping the law of Moses...we are told in Scripture that the law of Moses condemns.

What law then enables the OT saints to overcome the law of Moses which only condemns?

Psalm 119

Psa. 119:1 \tBlessed are the undefiled in the way,
\tWho walk in the law of the LORD!
2 \tBlessed are those who keep His testimonies,
\tWho seek Him with the whole heart!
3 \tThey also do no iniquity;
\tThey walk in His ways.

What law does this for the OT saint?

In Christ
Jeff

Psalms 119:1 ALEPH. Blessed

The old testament saints, were declared righteous by faith just as we are, but their hope was in the promise to come, Jesus, the first promise given was right after the fall, gen 3:15. Adam had his faith in the promised deliver. We have the sure hope , the finished work, Jesus Christ and him crucified, raised, and alive forever more.

Rev 1:8 He says "I am the alpha and the Omega, who is and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty"
Again he says Rev 1:18 " I am the living one; I was dead, and behold I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. "

The O.T saints received the promise when Jesus, ever the regions of death and lead captivity the the heavenlies.

love tom

Brother Phillip wrote:

This is not the Law of Love or liberty in Christ Jesus. They did not know it or Him. When He came to His own, "They received Him not".

Who is the Holy One of Israel? And what is Solomon writing about in Song of Songs?

In Christ
Jeff

Brother Tom wrote:

The O.T saints received the promise when Jesus, ever the regions of death and lead captivity the the heavenlies.

So looking back now these 2000 years, the OT saints are in the heavenlies...
Paul writes...

2Cor. 5:4 For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life.

As long as we are in this tent...mortality is a burden we are to bare. The Holy Spirit covers us until we are swallowed up by life.

In Christ
Jeff

Quote:

"Who is the Holy One of Israel? And what is Solomon writing about in Song of Songs?"

Isaiah 48:17 Thus saith , the Holy One of Israel which teacheth thee to profit , which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go .

To start with, we will use "the Lord",

Then, "I am the Lord, (Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
3478. Yisra'el
Search for H3478 in KJVSL
larsy Yisra'el yis-raw-ale'
from 8280 and 410; he will rule as God; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: --Israel.

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
3068. Y@hovah
Search for H3068 in KJVSL
hwhy Y@hovah yeh-ho-vaw'
from 1961; (the) self-Existent or Eternal; Jehovah, Jewish national name of God:--Jehovah, the Lord. Compare 3050, 3069.

Then, "thy Redeemer":

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
1350. ga'al
Search for H1350 in KJVSL
lag ga'al gaw-al'
a primitive root, to redeem (according to the Oriental law of kinship), i.e. to be the next of kin (and as such to buy back a relative's property, marry his widow, etc.):--X in any wise, X at all, avenger, deliver, (do, perform the part of near, next) kinsfolk(-man), purchase, ransom, redeem(-er), revenger.

Then, "the Holy One":

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
6918. qadowsh
Search for H6918 in KJVSL
vwdq qadowsh kaw-doshe'
or qadosh {kaw-doshe'}; from 6942; sacred (ceremonially or morally); (as noun) God (by eminence), an angel, a saint, a sanctuary:--holy (One), saint.

Then, "of Israel":

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
3478. Yisra'el
Search for H3478 in KJVSL
larsy Yisra'el yis-raw-ale'
from 8280 and 410; he will rule as God; Jisrael, a symbolical name of Jacob; also (typically) of his posterity: --Israel.

I am the LORD hwhy thy God Myhla which teacheth dml thee to profit ley, which leadeth Krd thee by the way Krd that thou shouldest go Kly

Follow the Law and you have gone where I have told you to go.

Now the Lord Jesus Christ, whom was among the apostles after the Cross, whom we know no more as a man but as He that is in us, The Lord of Glory.

1 Corinthians 2:1-2 And I , brethren , when I came to you , came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom , declaring unto you the testimony of God . For I determined not to know any thing among you , save Jesus Christ , and him crucified .

Jesus Christ, The Lord of Glory:

1 Corinthians 2:7-8 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery , even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory : Which none of the princes of this world knew : for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory .

If you look up the Lord of Glory and Jesus Christ the Lord in Greek you will see the difference in the God of Israel and The Lord Jesus Christ, Savior after the Cross.

God Himself is the Holy One of Israel. Jesus Christ is the Lord of Glory. That is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

Colossians 1:25-28 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Old Testament in the God of Israel, earthly works. New Testament in Christ of His body the church, in the Heavenlies, salvation by Grace through the Faith of Christ Himself.

Colossians 3:1-4 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.

Galatians 2:16-19 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

In Christ the Lord of Glory: Phillip

Brother Phillip wrote:

Old Testament in the God of Israel, earthly works. New Testament in Christ of His body the church, in the Heavenlies, salvation by Grace through the Faith of Christ Himself.

By this answer are you denying that Jesus is the Holy One that led Israel?

Do you view our Savior as Lord only for these last 2000 years?

Do you believe in the doctrine of the Trinity?

Who is Solomon writing about in the Song of Songs?

In Christ
Jeff

Brother Phillip:

Another question...what law is able to reveal these to the Palmist of 119?

18: Open my eyes, that I may see
Wondrous things from Your law.

33:Teach me, O LORD, the way of Your statutes,
And I shall keep it to the end.

Psa 119:34 Give me understanding, and I shall keep Your law;
Indeed, I shall observe it with my whole heart.

Psa 119:35 Make me walk in the path of Your commandments,
For I delight in it.

Psa 119:36 Incline my heart to Your testimonies,
And not to covetousness.

Psa 119:37 Turn away my eyes from looking at worthless things,
And revive me in Your way.[fn1]

Psa 119:38 Establish Your word to Your servant,

Do you think God answered these prayers and if so by what means did the Father convey this grace to the Psalmist of 119?

In Christ
Jeff

your questions are endless, I know what I believe and you know what I will say.

Bless you in Christ: Phillip

Brother Phillip wrote:

your questions are endless, I know what I believe and you know what I will say.

I will always contend for the faith in love towards you brother Phillip. These questions I ask to press towards a greater more glorius view of our Savior and His work which began long before the cross.

Most are not willing to hear what Scripture says, just like those who told Moses, you go and hear, and we will do what you say. But the offering that Christ has as our High Priest is to put His words in our hearts.

Paul taught...

1Cr 10:1 MOREOVER, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea,
1Cr 10:2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea,
1Cr 10:3 all ate the same spiritual food,
1Cr 10:4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.
1Cr 10:5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness.
1Cr 10:6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted.

These things become our examples also...not only those that speak of the unfaithful but also the men of God who wrote about relationships they had with God and the Holy One of Irael...

The writer of Psalm 119 teaches us the elementary ways of God in the life of a believer. He teaches us how to recognize the Spirit's work in our lives. He teaches us the content of what we should pray for...

The Song of Song speaks of a love story...

The word of God is powerful not only for those who have lived these last 2000 years....most today deny Christ in the OT.

Paul didn't how about you brother?

In Christ
Jeff

Christ is the Old Testament. The way we receive Him is different in the New Testament or we would still be under the Law and sacrificing in the Temple. We are now the temple and the sacrifice is Christ in us.

The spiritual drink they drank from was not Christ but the miracle of God in providing them with water from the rock.

And that Rock was Christ. This cannot be intended to be understood literally, for it was not literally true. The rock from which the water flowed was evidently an ordinary rock, a part of Mount Horeb; and all that this can mean is, that that rock, with the stream of water thus gushing from it, was a representation of the Messiah. The word was is thus often used to denote similarity or representation, and is not to be taken literally. Thus, in the institution of the Lord's Supper, the Saviour says of the bread, "This is my body," that is, it represents my body. Thus also of the cup, "This cup is the new testament in my blood," that is, it represents my blood, 1Co 11:24-25. Thus the gushing fountain of water might be regarded as a representation of the Messiah, and of the blessings which result from him. The apostle does not say that the Israelites knew that this was designed to be a representation of the Messiah, and of the blessings which flow from him, though there is nothing improbable in the supposition that they so understood and regarded it, since all their institutions were probably regarded as typical. But he evidently does mean to say that the rock was a vivid and affecting representation of the Messiah; that the Jews did partake of the mercies that flow from him; and that even in the desert they were under his care, and had in fact among them a vivid representation of him, in some sense corresponding with the emblematic representation of the same favours which the Corinthian and other Christians had in the Lord's Supper. This representation of the Messiah, was understood by Paul to consist in the following things:

You must be born again of water and the spirit.
I will give you living water.

John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

The water in the desert from the rock, they had to continually drink. The living water that Christ in us gives we will never need again.

John 4:10-14 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

Again and again and again, the old testament is earthly as the millennial kingdom will be on this earth, which we are the heavenly dwellers in the Father's House that Christ prepared and is preparing for us. The Heavenly Kingdom in the Father's House, us ruling and reigning with Christ by our heavenly birthright, son's and co-heirs with Christ.

The earthly water from the rock was not Jesus Christ, but it was a representation of what he would be to the Born Again of Spirit and water, living water which we never need drink again. That is why God was so upset with Moses, The Rock represented Christ and the Water Life in Christ. The people and even Moses did not understand it.

In Christ: Phillip

Brother Phillip wrote:

And that Rock was Christ. This cannot be intended to be understood literally, for it was not literally true.

Paul writes of a rock in another place...

Rom. 9:30 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone. 33 As it is written:
\t“Behold, I lay in Zion a stumbling stone and rock of offense,
\tAnd whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

If you do not believe what Scripture says in 1 Corinthians 10...who do you believe Paul is identifying here in Romans 9? Who is the rock, the stumbling stone which most of Israel but not all of Israel denied? Why does Paul quote the OT about this rock?

In Christ
Jeff

Brother Phillip wrote;

You must be born again of water and the spirit.
I will give you living water.

The living water you speak of was also available to this generation...

Jer. 2:13 \t“For My people have committed two evils:
\tThey have forsaken Me, the fountain of living waters,
\tAnd hewn themselves cisterns—broken cisterns that can hold no water.

Do both Scriptures speak of the same thing, the Spirit of God?

In Christ
jeff

Jeremiah 2:12-14 Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD. For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water. Is Israel a servant? is he a homeborn slave? why is he spoiled?

The pagan are guilty of but one sin - idolatry; the covenant-people commit two - they abandon the true God; they serve idols.

This is Jehovah God Israel speaking, not the Son. The Son is of the Father and He has living water also for those that believe that He, Jesus Christ is the Son of God, that is born again in us unto living water and the Spirit of Christ in us, who has baptized us into the Holy Spirit that our soul might know that we are son's of the living God, who has both birthed Jesus His only begotten Son and rebirthed us as son's by His Seed Incorruptable by an act of the epitome of Love.

We have a new life, being a new creature, that nobody had before the Cross. We have the whole God head in us, by the birthing of the Son and The Holy Spirit promised and the Spirit of God our progenitor of the Seed making us new creatures in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

The Spirit of God, the Spirit of Christ and the Holy Spirit.

In Christ a new creature that none had been before the Cross:

Phillip

Brother Phillip wrote:

that is born again in us unto living water and the Spirit of Christ in us, who has baptized us into the Holy Spirit that our soul might know that we are son's of the living God, who has both birthed Jesus His only begotten Son and rebirthed us as son's by His Seed Incorruptable by an act of the epitome of Love.

1Pet. 1:23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

According to Peter we are born of the incorruptible seed, through the word of God which lives and abides forever...

Let me ask this question then, will one who is born of the incorruptible seed, THROUGH THE WORD OF GOD, then experience the precepts, statutes, commandments, judgements, which are found in the book of Psalms? Will the experiences spoken of in the Psalms be of any value to you?

How about the book of Proverbs,,,will these words be of any value to you?

How about the book of Song of Songs?

Will one who is a Co-heir with Christ learn anything from these Scriptures?

In Christ
jeff

The word of Christ , is the good news of his salvation, not all the bible, the word {scriptures] is used for the old testament, which only a few first century saints had access to, they relied on the spirit, fellowship, and the apostles teaching.

love in Christ tom

P.S. I wonder if little children could understand this gospel?

Brother Thomas wrote:

The word of Christ , is the good news of his salvation, not all the bible,

1Pet. 1:23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

I do not know if you were actually speaking to what this verse declares...

The incorruptible seed finds it's life, through the word of God...it doesn't say the word of Christ...

the word {scriptures] is used for the old testament, which only a few first century saints had access to, they relied on the spirit, fellowship, and the apostles teaching.

I don't believe the NT teaches this...

You see, where Paul went, he first went to the jews to preach the gospel. Because of the dispersion of the jewish people thoughtout the known world at that time, the OT was present in all the locations where Paul founded churches....

Here is an example...

Acts 17:10 Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. 11 These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily to find out whether these things were so.

What Scriptures does Paul point to when he teaches the Corinthians, Romans, Ephesians?

What Scriptures does John point to in Revelation?

You see, one is born again, as a child, a babe in Christ... but to grow into maturity one must feed on the meat that is contained within the Scriptures. The writer of Hebrews points this out to the congregation. He was refering to the OT wasn't he?

In Christ
Jeff

Earlier in this thread the topic of "carnal christian" came up. Here is an insightful sermon on this topic. The sermon is found on the "Charity Christian Fellowship" church tape minsitry. This sermon was a teaching given during a youth bible study conference. Two of it's preachers are scheduled to preach at the upcoming Revival Conference...

http://www.charityministries.org/audio/3742.mp3

In Christ
Jeff

1Pet. 1:23 having been born again, not of corruptible seed but incorruptible, through the word of God which lives and abides forever,

"The Word of God"

How can words live? The bible is the Word of God. They are just words without the Holy Spirit which gives them revelation about Christ.

If you check our the word, "Word" you will see that this one in 1:23 is the same word in John 1, where the Word is Christ. This is the Seed of Christ birthed in us by the Father, we are Born Again of this Incorruptable Seed.

This Word is Logos: Strong's Greek Dictionary
3056. logos
Search for G3056 in KJVSL
logoV logos log'-os
from 3004; something said (including the thought); by implication, a topic (subject of discourse), also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension, a computation; specially, (with the article in John) the Divine Expression (i.e. Christ):--account, cause, communication, X concerning, doctrine, fame, X have to do, intent, matter, mouth, preaching, question, reason, + reckon, remove, say(-ing), shew, X speaker, speech, talk, thing, + none of these things move me, tidings, treatise, utterance, word, work.

(I.E. Christ) John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word , and the Word was with God , and the Word was God . The same was in the beginning with God . All things were made by him ; and without him was not any thing made that was made . In him was life ; and the life was the light of men .

"Word" Logos, same word as in 1 Peter 1:23
This is not the written word it is the Word of God Himself, Jesus Christ, that is who we are born again with His Incorruptable Seed of the Father as with Mary.

1 Peter 1:25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever . And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you .

This word is Rhema, Strong's Greek Dictionary
4487. rhema
Search for G4487 in KJVSL
rhma rhema hray'-mah
from 4483; an utterance (individually, collectively or specially),; by implication, a matter or topic (especially of narration, command or dispute); with a negative naught whatever:--+ evil, + nothing, saying, word.

This is the written word the Holy Spirit uses to teach us who Jesus Christ in us is. John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

This is the written words the Holy Spirit will reveal to us in 1 Peter 1:25, not the living Word Himself.

In Christ: Phillip

How can words live? The bible is the Word of God. They are just words without the Holy Spirit which gives them revelation about Christ.

Listen to what Scripture teaches us...

Luke 24:32 And they said to one another, “Did not our heart burn within us while He talked with us on the road, and while He opened the Scriptures to us?”

You are absolutely correct...The Scriptures plus the Holy Spirit...without either there is no life...

Paul teaches Timothy...

15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

2Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

What does it mean when Paul writes that the Holy Scriptures, "are able to make you wise for salvation"?

In Christ
Jeff

Quote:

""""""2Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

What does it mean when Paul writes that the Holy Scriptures, "are able to make you wise for salvation"?""""""

""""2Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.""""

Yes and also:

Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Hear again, "For the Word of God" the Logos of God Jesus Christ Himself. In Him by the Holy Spirit we are divided asunder, by Christ now our Spirit and the Holy Spirit in our soul mind dividing us even to the Joints and Marrow, body, which is quickened contain the God Head in us, by rebirth of the Son of God in us.

And::: 2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

The Holy Spirit came to convict of sin, also to draw the sinner to Christ and then teach us about this Christ that is in us.

We have an unction, that is to keep what God has given us in Christ Jesus, a whole new Gospel, sent and revealed to Paul. Follow him as he follows Christ.

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

1 John 2:20-29 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. ((not old testament, but from Paul's beginning of "my gospel"))If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

(( Added by me ))

Then:
John 16:7-15 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Has The Holy Spirit shown it unto you?

That is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

In Christ: Phillip

Quote:

""How are the benefits of Jesus subjectively appropriated to us? How do I get it? The Bible makes it clear that we are justified not by our works, not by our efforts, not by our deeds, but by faith – and by faith alone. The only way you can receive the benefit of Christ’s life and death is by putting your trust in Him – and in Him alone. You do that, you’re declared just by God, you’re adopted into His family, you’re forgiven of all of your sins, and you have begun your pilgrimage for eternity.""

Amen, and now that we have Christ in us, by us presenting our bodies a living sacrifice, His works become our works, the only works that God can accept, in Christ being the only perfect sacrifice that God see's in us. Born Again, a New Creature.

I know this is a lot of scripture, but the rule of presenting our bodies a living sacrifice is: Now all Israel will be saved the same way, that is not every Jew, but all that are saved will be saved in the same way, be they Jew or Gentile. All that follows are because God in Christ Jesus was reconciling the world to Himself. Let our works reflect and be the works of God in Christ Jesus through our bodies presented to God, which is only our spiritual service. In other words, the least we can do. I am His, He is mine.

Romans 11:1-36 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying, Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life. But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal. Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day. And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead? For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in. Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree? For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Romans 12:1-21 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. For as we have many members in one body, and all members have not the same office: So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, whether prophecy, let us prophesy according to the proportion of faith; Or ministry, let us wait on our ministering: or he that teacheth, on teaching; Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that sheweth mercy, with cheerfulness. Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good. Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another; Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord; Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer; Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality. Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not. Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep. Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits. Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

57 verses only, what a blessing. Amen, not over but praising God always.

In Christ: Phillip

AMEN and AMEN.

Brother Phillip quoted

Romans 12:1-21 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Do these brethren have Christ in them?

In Christ
Jeff

Phil. 3:7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith; 10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death, 11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

What does Paul mean by this, that he himself "be found in Him"..."that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection"?

Is this part of the gospel?

In Christ
Jeff

Brother Michael quoted;

The Gospel is called the 'good news' because it addresses the most serious problem that you and I have as human beings, and that problem is simply this: God is holy and He is just, and I’m not. And at the end of my life, I’m going to stand before a just and holy God, and I’ll be judged.

Do you ascribe to Paul's teaching that 'babes in Christ" are prone to live according to the flesh?

In Christ
Jeff

Quote:

Brother Phillip quoted

Quote:
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Romans 12:1-21 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
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Do these brethren have Christ in them?

In Christ
Jeff

Speaking to the same people as in the scripture you quoted; Romans 8:10-16 And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh. For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

You can answer your own question.

In Christ: Phillip

Quote:

""What does Paul mean by this, that he himself "be found in Him"..."that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection""

Verse 10. That I may know him. That I may be fully acquainted with his nature, his character, his work, and with the salvation which he has wrought in me. It is one of the highest objects of desire in the mind of the Christian to know Christ. We will be knowing Him throughout all eternity, and God the Father also, we will never exhaust the Mind of God.

And the power of his resurrection. That is, that I may understand and experience the proper influence which the fact of his resurrection should have on the mind. That influence would be felt in imparting the hope of immortality; in sustaining the soul in the prospect of death, by the expectation of being raised from the grave in like manner; knowing that we were resurrected with Him already and seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. We died with Him and were buried with and are resurrected with Him because He lives in us. Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Rom 6:4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Philippians 3:11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

He sought to participate in the full honour and glory of such a resurrection.

Paul was in the race and he new the finish but he had not crossed the finish line yet, that would happen when the good race had been won.

1Cr 9:24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

2Ti 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished [my] course,(race) I have kept the faith:

2Ti 4:8 Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

A crown of laurels for the victor for finishing the race.

Philippians 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

Win Christ: Phillip

You can answer your own question.

I will, yes these are believers and Christ is in them...yet to be more succinct (sp?), Paul is exhorting them to "And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind..."

This renewing of our mind, how does a believer, one who is obedient to the gospel do this?

In Christ
jeff

Brother Phillip wrote:

That is, that I may understand and experience the proper influence which the fact of his resurrection should have on the mind.

Could you please explain how one "may understand and experience the proper influence" that comes to bear on the mind of the believer?

In Christ
Jeff

Quote:

""This renewing of our mind, how does a believer, one who is obedient to the gospel do this?""

Jhn 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

Eph 3:20 Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

Mat 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Answer: Ask, Seek, Study, you will most assuredly find, listen to Paul and most of all hear the Parakleet, the Holy Spirit Teacher of all things that Christ says.

2Ti 1:11 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.

In Christ: Phillip

We all ready have all things in Christ, we do not experience this, full gospel, because we will not accept all things, like a little child. We have to search it out dig through all the word, get totally right, and then, we may have the truth, but we forget to make our own. Wouldn't it be easier to just receive it, because Jesus through the Holy Ghost, told us.
I'm not against searching, but some things we have trust God on, if the scriptures spelled everything out clearly, as it does on some things, we wouldn't have to rely on God.

God gave me a vision [or a daydream] in it I saw a number of His children standing on the bank of the river of life, crying out to God to put them in the river. I said Lord whats up? Then He opened my eyes and I saw them all standing in the river crying to God " Put us in the river"." My people parish for lack of knowledge."

All things are done , we need to ask God, to open our eyes, to see this great salvation IN HIM.

love in CHRIST tom

Amen:

Once you are saved you get the whole bucket of Grace. The Spirit of Christ, total, The Holy Spirit, complete, The Father Himself, abiding Himself in us with the Son.

We fall behind in nothing. 1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

1Cr 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1Cr 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;

1Cr 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;

1 Corinthians 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.

Trust in Him. 1 Corinthians 1:4-10 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord. Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

In Christ; Phillip

God gave me a vision [or a daydream] in it I saw a number of His children standing on the bank of the river of life, crying out to God to put them in the river. I said Lord whats up? Then He opened my eyes and I saw them all standing in the river crying to God " Put us in the river"." My people parish for lack of knowledge."

I see brother that you are quoting from the OT...

Paul writes to Timothy...

2 Timothy 3:

14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Paul is exhorting Timothy to continue on in reading of the Scriptures because it is the Scriptures which enable one to grow in wisdom for salvation...

The Corinthian church had been given all things in Christ Jesus, there were many teachers, yet few fathers among them...pride and fleshly affections held many in bondage to the old man. Many were not willing to obey the Spirit and thus Paul could not discuss spiritual precepts with them...

God gave us the Scriptures so that we too could recognize His voice...

Keep on keepin on Brother Tom...

God Bless
Jeff

Brother Phillip wrote:

Once you are saved you get the whole bucket of Grace. The Spirit of Christ, total, The Holy Spirit, complete, The Father Himself, abiding Himself in us with the Son.

We fall behind in nothing. 1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

Paul writes to the Ephesians...

Eph. 4:11 And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, 12 for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, 13 till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14 that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting,

Paul exhorts all of us that "we should no longer be children..." who are "tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting."

Again we find Paul teaching and exhorting the Ephesian church to grow in as you wrote, to take advantage of the "bucket of grace" that is freely given to all who are born again. Yet Paul continues to make the distinction that those who remain "children" are easily "tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine."

Today is no different than it was in Paul's day. We see the doctrines of men causing confusion and strife amongst the people...we see people barking, we see people laughing, we see preachers fleecing the flocks for wages. We see the church divided.

Christ in you is still the same message we hear today as the Ephesians heard then... We know that the Ephesian church also suffered in the same ways...look at all the problems Timothy was having...

So is Paul's gospel of no effect?

In Christ
Jeff

Pastor Daniel Kenaston who will be preachin at the Revival Conference teaches a series on the "Declaration of Faith."

In his second message he teaches that there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ who continue to say yes Lord.

http://www.charityministries.org/audio/3279.mp3

In Christ
Jeff

Dear Rookie;
Brother Phillip, is simply saying, that we are saved by grace, and that grace, is the power of God that transforms us into the image of Christ.
Paul said; "The gospel isn't about words [or doctrine,] it's about Power in the Holy Spirit".

I don't understand your argument.
Grace isn't a means to lawlessness, it brings about Christ likeness, which is the purpose of the gospel, son ship. God desires many sons and daughters. Jesus was the first born of many brothers.
The holy Spirit leads us into all Truth, revealing who we are in Christ, faith brings the reality of what Christ has finished to a completion in us. We are just lacking knowledge of this great salvation, that is all ready complete. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. Many are trying to move God, but the work is complete, Pentecost, is finished, it's time to humbly accept the word which will save us. Jesus isn't coming to die again, He's coming to redeem the mortal body.

love in CHRIST tom

Brother Thomas wrote:

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ. Many are trying to move God, but the work is complete, Pentecost, is finished, it's time to humbly accept the word which will save us. Jesus isn't coming to die again, He's coming to redeem the mortal body.

The gospel comes with power to overcome the flesh. As you have said, "Faith comes by hearing..." The power of the gospel is ministered to us by the Holy Spirit....

Rom. 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

The point of this thread was focused on this issue...that those who obey the Gospel will not continue to walk after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

To obey the Gospel means that we are called by the God to..."mortify the deeds of the body" "through the Spirit."

This precept it taught throughout Scriptures like Proverbs 1-8, Psalm 119, Job 32-36.

The Gospel never ever changed throughout the generations that has precede ours....

God spoke to Cain and Abel as well as He speaks to us who have the Spirit of God...

3 And in the process of time it came to pass that Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground to the LORD. 4 Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering, 5 but He did not respect Cain and his offering. And Cain was very angry, and his countenance fell.

Gen. 4:6 So the LORD said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen? 7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”

Abel obeyed the word which was spoken to him....this is an example of being saved by grace through faith. Cain on the otherhand disobeyed God when He spoke to him...this ia an example of rebellion and the sin of unbelief....

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff

Quote:

""so is Paul's gospel of no effect?"

In Christ
Jeff

Only when we commingle it with the Law.
Only when we commingle the Old Creature with the New Creature in Christ Jesus.

Old:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
New:
Rom 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.

Rom 8:20 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope,

Rom 8:21 Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

The Creature Himself in us, making us new creatures in Him.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and [be] not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, [and] which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister
Only when Paul's Gospel is not the Center of our new Life in Christ. By which his Gospel makes Christ the Center of all that we are in this life. Paul's Gospel is not the same gospel of Able and Cain, they had no Gospel but the Fall of Adam and Gods mercy Able did not know who Christ was or is. He chose to give of His flock and Cain chose to give of His fields. God is the One that made Able's gift of thanks the Gospel of Christ, by the blood Able shed and it has not changed ever sense, and even before the foundation of the world, "the Lamb slain". If Able is saved it is because of God's mercy.
I am Saved by the Grace of God and by the Son that is in me. Able could not have had that born again experience of The Seed of God, which is Christ birthed in you, because He had not risen yet. Our salvation is in Christ, Able's was in God's mercy. All Israel will be saved, not is saved.

We are saved now and seated in Heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

In Christ: Phillip

In Christ: Phillip

Brother Phillip wrote:

Only when we commingle it with the Law.
Only when we commingle the Old Creature with the New Creature in Christ Jesus.

The Corinthians, Ephesians, and Colosians all had Paul's gospel, yet Paul had to correct each church, he had to exhort each church, why?

In Christ
Jeff

Brother Thomas wrote:

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of Christ.

I was pondering the prayers of the psalmist of 119, and saw this...

49 \tRemember the word to Your servant,
\tUpon which You have caused me to hope.

This is a picture of the faith which you speak of...

132 Look upon me and be merciful to me,
\t\tAs Your custom is toward those who love Your name.
133 Direct my steps by Your word,
\t\tAnd let no iniquity have dominion over me.

Just as the Lord directed the steps of Joshua, just as the Psalmist prays for the same, we too look to hear from Him who is both our King and High Priest.

154 Plead my cause and redeem me;
\t\tRevive me according to Your word.

40 \tBehold, I long for Your precepts;
\tRevive me in Your righteousness.
41 \tLet Your mercies come also to me, O LORD—
\tYour salvation according to Your word.

Just a thought...

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff

Quote:

""The Corinthians, Ephesians, and Colosians all had Paul's gospel, yet Paul had to correct each church, he had to exhort each church, why?

In Christ
Jeff""

Galatians 1:1-16 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who raised him from the dead;) And all the brethren which are with me, unto the churches of Galatia: Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ, Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father: To whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers. But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

By trying to make the Jewish religion the reason that a Christian would be accepted as a religious person, that is by circumcission and the Law. This is what Paul fought his whole ministry of his Gospel, which is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

Again speaking of the Jerusalem Church, specifically Peter James and John, who changed his mind when he wrote John's epistle, and his gospel, which is completely different than the three History Gospels.

Galatians 2:3-10 But neither Titus, who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised: And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you. But of these who seemed to be somewhat, (whatsoever they were, it maketh no matter to me: God accepteth no man's person:) for they who seemed to be somewhat in conference added nothing to me: But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter; (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:) And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision. Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

Then the strongest correction:

Galatians 3:1-9 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

By faith Abraham was saved by God's mercy, not believing on the Name of Jesus Christ His Son and receiving the Faith of Christ not Abraham, we are blessed in Abraham but we are saved by the Faith of Jesus Christ.

Collisians, save thing: Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

Philippians also: Philippians 1:26-30 That your rejoicing may be more abundant in Jesus Christ for me by my coming to you again. Only let your conversation be as it becometh the gospel of Christ: that whether I come and see you, or else be absent, I may hear of your affairs, that ye stand fast in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel; And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake; Having the same conflict which ye saw in me, and now hear to be in me.

Also the Ephesians, as in all His letters trying to keep the circumcision form polluting the Gospel of Christ with their Law and ceremony.

In Christ: Phillip

I don't think anyone is saying, anything against the OT. We have all the promises about Christ there, though they longed to see, what we have, the fulfillment of the promises, that started the day Adam fell. You see Paul, Peter, John, or even Jesus Himself, didn't merely quote the word, they also gave, the revelation that the Spirit was showing them about it. Sometimes when we merely quote the word, it's hard to understand, where you are coming from. There is so much misunderstood scripture, that it's hard to discern, if we are on the same page.
I remember when I was young in the Lord, He would give me revelation, on a word, and I would be lite up like a light bulb, just overjoyed, and I'd share the verse with someone, there responds was "so I read that two years ago" or something like that. I asked God "Why don't they see it." he said "Quote the word but speak the revelation."
love IN CHRIST tom

Brother Phillip quoted this Scripture...

I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

Did Christ "pervert" His gospel when He sent out His disciples to preach even before He taught them that He was going to die on the cross?

Collisians, save thing: Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

But why must Paul always teach about the effects of the "old man" verses the 'new man"?

Whether it is the Ephesians, Corinthians, or Colossians, even being given all things in Christ, even being given all spiritual gifts, evening being taught over and over again about what it means to have Christ in them, why do they continue to suffer from the works of the flesh?

In Christ
Jeff

Brother Thomas wrote:

I remember when I was young in the Lord, He would give me revelation, on a word, and I would be lite up like a light bulb, just overjoyed, and I'd share the verse with someone, there responds was "so I read that two years ago" or something like that. I asked God "Why don't they see it." he said "Quote the word but speak the revelation."

Yes, to be taught by God, to experience His revelation to our inner man creates the substance of what we hope for, the evidence of things unseen...

Brother, I am sorry for anything that may cause you grief...

The point I often try to bring out in this forum is the power of all Scripture to make us wise for salvation...

Your words above remind me of another man who had a similar experience...

Psalm 119

81. My soul faints for Your salvation,
But I hope in Your word.
82. My eyes fail from searching Your word,
Saying, "When will You comfort me?"

When one has a thirst like you have testified of and is similar to what this man, who was inspired by the Holy Spirit wrote, then you can know without doubt, that you are a disciple of Christ.

Psa 119:97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it [is] my meditation all the day.

Psa 119:98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they [are] ever with me.

Psa 119:99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies [are] my meditation.

Psa 119:100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.

Psa 119:101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.

Psa 119:102 I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me.

Psa 119:103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! [yea, sweeter] than honey to my mouth!

Psa 119:104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

Psa 119:105 NUN. Thy word [is] a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

Psa 119:106 I have sworn, and I will perform [it], that I will keep thy righteous judgments.

Psa 119:107 I am afflicted very much: quicken me, O LORD, according unto thy word.

In the above section of Scripture we find that your testimony is in line with this man.

Have you ever considered that the "light bulb' experience you testified of, is the same that this man prays for when he says..."quicken me, O Lord, according unto thy word."

The reason I contend with Brother Phillip is that he believes that Paul's gospel is superior to all other Scripture in it's ability to save the individual. What I try to do is to bring to light the "mystery" which was working in all generations to bring men into the light as Jesus is the light.

The works of Jesus are testified to all generations. The book of Job, the oldest book of the Bible testifies that Christ is Job's savior....the more one sees Christ throughout Scripture the greater He becomes in one's life...

You see, if we don't find ourselves sharing the same experiences of the OT saints, we may not be abinding in the vine.

In Christ
Jeff

Quote:

""The reason I contend with Brother Phillip is that he believes that Paul's gospel is superior to all other Scripture in it's ability to save the individual. What I try to do is to bring to light the "mystery" which was working in all generations to bring men into the light as Jesus is the light""

I don't believe it is superior, but I do believe you cannot use 1973 Chevy PU manual to fix or overhaul a 2002 Chevy PU, purchased new.

Paul's gospel brings forth a new creature in the birthing. Not a fixed up creature by Moses manual. A new complete Chevy with its own Manual. Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

"according to the dispensation of God", New owners manual, called "My Gospel", by Paul, Author: Jesus Christ, Teacher: Holy Spirit.

No old testament saint has Not this model. Each one that is born again is a complete new model a dispensation in the fullness of time by God and has its own owners manual, Author: Jesus Christ, Teacher: Holy Spirit in you, not with you. You cannot fix a born again believer by the Moses works Law Manual. You must have the Year and Model Manual, to deal with the New Creature.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

In Christ a complete new model.

The old model sacrifice is not the same as the New Model Sacrifice, is it?

Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.
A Christ one, a son: Phillip

Dear Jeff;
I still do not understand, what you are trying to say, yes David was inspired by the mantle of God, the Spirit with him, Most of the psalms are prophetic words about Christ, whom they longed to see and understand, all these saints in the old covenant, died looking for the day in which we now stand. They trusted God, but redemption, was still a promise for the future.[heb;11;39-40] Jesus is that promise, he went into the grave and delivered those who were held captive and brought the fullness of what they hoped for into reality.[eph; 8-10] These were those who were obedient by faith, or because they believed in God they acted.[Rom;4;1-25] The old testament has to be brought under the light of the gospel of grace, not the law of moses, which cannot save and did not save anyone, it only made them and us aware of our sin,[rom;7;7-25] and need for Gods mercy through Christ who is Lord over all, and through all, to the praise of his glory.[rom;5;1-11].
We live in righteousness because the Spirit of righteousness, [Christ] is now our life, not a following of rules, but new life in the new creature, with Gods nature, which is Love, guiding us. Love does no harm.
love IN CHRIST tom

Brother Phillip wrote:

No old testament saint has Not this model. Each one that is born again is a complete new model a dispensation in the fullness of time by God and has its own owners manual, Author: Jesus Christ, Teacher: Holy Spirit in you, not with you. You cannot fix a born again believer by the Moses works Law Manual. You must have the Year and Model Manual, to deal with the New Creature.

Do you believe that a babe in Christ is carnal christian?

In Christ
Jeff

Brother Thomas wrote:

Most of the psalms are prophetic words about Christ, whom they longed to see and understand, all these saints in the old covenant, died looking for the day in which we now stand.

Do you believe that the word of God, when read by the OT saints, had any power in them as you have testified of your own "light bulb" experience?

They trusted God, but redemption, was still a promise for the future.

Do you consider the ressurection to be the redemption that all are waiting for some time in the future?

Rom. 8:23 Not only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body.

Eph. 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Jesus is that promise, he went into the grave and delivered those who were held captive and brought the fullness of what they hoped for into reality.[eph; 8-10]

Until the blood of Christ was spilled, the OT saints were held still in bondage to the fall of man.

Romans 6:
17 For if by the one man’s offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.)

Is the grace of God only in the NT? What does Scriptures teach?

These were those who were obedient by faith, or because they believed in God they acted.[Rom;4;1-25]

Is this not still the same path...

Rom. 11:36 For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen. 1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

How is our mind renewed daily?

The old testament has to be brought under the light of the gospel of grace, not the law of moses, which cannot save and did not save anyone, it only made them and us aware of our sin,[

The law was never meant to save anyone. The purpose of the law is as you stated," it only made them and us aware of our sin,"

But we have this testimony from Paul concerning the power of God's grace in the OT saints...

Romans 11:

2 God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, 3 “LORD, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? 4 But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”

In the last verse we see that the grace of God enabled these saints to overcome the wicked one. Likewise John writes of the young men in whom the word of God abides...

14 I have written to you, fathers,
\t\tBecause you have known Him who is from the beginning.
\t\tI have written to you, young men,
\t\tBecause you are strong, and the word of God abides in you,
\t\tAnd you have overcome the wicked one.

The power of God's word abiding in the saint enables that saint to escape the bondage of Satan.

Paul goes on in his teaching of the nature of the grace extended to the OT saints...

5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

We live in righteousness because the Spirit of righteousness, [Christ] is now our life, not a following of rules, but new life in the new creature, with Gods nature, which is Love, guiding us. Love does no harm.

What you wrote above is also stated by Solomon...

Proverbs 2:

1 My son, if you receive my words,
\tAnd treasure my commands within you,
2 \tSo that you incline your ear to wisdom,
\tAnd apply your heart to understanding;
3 \tYes, if you cry out for discernment,
\tAnd lift up your voice for understanding,
4 \tIf you seek her as silver,
\tAnd search for her as for hidden treasures;
5 \tThen you will understand the fear of the LORD,
\tAnd find the knowledge of God.
6 \tFor the LORD gives wisdom;
\tFrom His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
7 \tHe stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
\tHe is a shield to those who walk uprightly;
8 \tHe guards the paths of justice,
\tAnd preserves the way of His saints.
9 \tThen you will understand righteousness and justice,
\tEquity and every good path.
10 \tWhen wisdom enters your heart,
\tAnd knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
11 \tDiscretion will preserve you;
\tUnderstanding will keep you,
12 \tTo deliver you from the way of evil,
\tFrom the man who speaks perverse things,

10..."when wisdom enters your heart....who is our wisdom?

God Bless

In Christ
Jeff

Psalm 119:

160 The entirety of Your word is truth,
\t\tAnd every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.

1John 5:6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.

What part of God's word is not able to transform man into the image of His Son?

In Christ
Jeff

rookie wrote:
Psalm 119:

160 The entirety of Your word is truth,
\t\tAnd every one of Your righteous judgments endures forever.

1John 5:6 This is He who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ; not only by water, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is truth.

What part of God's word is not able to transform man into the image of His Son?

In Christ
Jeff

Hi Jeff; now your speaking more clearly, I was worried you were promoting, the law for righteousness, I believe Jesus is the word of God, apart from his indwelling, or rheum,[living word in us], we cannot understand the written word.
The saints in the OT were saved by grace through faith, just as we are, but Jesus Christ in the flesh, hadn't been revealed yet, so there hope was in His coming. Our hope is in His return the redemption of our bodies, our souls are already redeemed, Jesus redeemed the OT souls when He entered the regions of death, and proclaimed the good news, so they to are at the throne of God, as we are seated in the heavenlies with Christ.
That the only difference, when they believed they had to wait until, Jesus came, to receive the redemption, we are instantly seated with Christ when we believe.

And yes all the written word is good for growing in the grace of God, but it is the indwelling of the Spirit that transforms us, not the written word, the Spirit gives life to the written word and we are transformed by the power of God.

1cor 2;6-16...But we have the mind of Christ.
We all ready have it, though not many are ready to receive this word yet, so it can be a reality in them.

love IN CHRIST tom

Brother Thomas wrote:

Jesus redeemed the OT souls when He entered the regions of death, and proclaimed the good news, so they to are at the throne of God, as we are seated in the heavenlies with Christ.
That the only difference, when they believed they had to wait until, Jesus came, to receive the redemption, we are instantly seated with Christ when we believe.

According to the Scripture that I posted, the redemption will take place at the first resurection. The Holy Spirit is the seal for us that believe. Paul says that the presence of the Holy Spirit is the down payment for the redemption that will take place some day in the future. We only see dimly what will one day be brighter than the sun; the glory of the Father and the Son. In that day we will see Him as He is.

1cor 2;6-16...But we have the mind of Christ.
We all ready have it, though not many are ready to receive this word yet, so it can be a reality in them.

Yes, we do have access to the mind of Christ. As you have quoted Paul's testimony of the gift that was freely given to the Corinthians, yet we also find that many were falling short of knowing the mind of Christ.

This reminds me of another time when Scripture points out that the gospel was preached to the generation of Moses. This is found in the book of Hebrews...

Heb. 4:2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.

Have you ever considered this event? And have you ever considered why the Corinthians who were babes in Christ were not able to know the mind of Christ?

God Bless
In Christ
Jeff

This is part of what I wrote for our small group meeting...

In it is the message of the gospel...

Let us turn to the Scriptures we have begun to study from. In 1 John 1 we see these verses…

1John 1:5 This is the message which we have heard from Him and declare to you, that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth.

When Apostle John writes, “if we say that we have fellowship with Him,” he is pointing to every man or woman who makes the claim that they are Christians. John declares that these who claim the name of Jesus, but “walk in darkness,” are deceiving themselves, because they “do not practice the truth.” If we look around us, in our community, in our nation, we see this precept manifesting itself in many people. Many claim Jesus as their Savior, but the fruit of their walk becomes evident. The motivations of their hearts speak of the things that are of darkness. The evidence of their lives more closely resemble the fruit of those who walk in the ways of this world.

So then it is of the utmost importance to discover what John means when he says of these people, they who deceive themselves, they “do not practice the truth.” In 1 John 2:

3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoever keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him.

In verse 4 we are given the answer to what John means when he speaks of those who “do not practice the truth.” John equates “not practice (ing) the truth” with “not keep (ing) His commandments.” In verse 5 we are told that those who “keeps His word, truly the love of God is perfected in him.” So then, what do we make of these words and ideas found in Scripture? What does John really mean when he states that those who “keep His word, who walk in the light, who keep His commandment, the “love of God is perfected in him.”

Throughout the entirety of God’s word, we find that God requires this of men and women who say they are followers of Christ. In Deuteronomy 6 we hear this…

4 “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God, the Lord is one! 5 You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your strength.”

Jesus declares this in Mark 12:

Mark 12:29 Jesus answered him, “The first of all the commandments is: ‘Hear, O Israel, the LORD our God, the LORD is one. 30 And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ This is the first commandment. 31 And the second, like it, is this: “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

I submit to you that this is the will of God for all that proclaim Jesus as their Savior. And we know according to what John has written, that “the love of God is perfected” in those who “keep His word”, “who walk in the light,” and “who keep His commandments.” I want to make this very important distinction here. John is not saying that God loves us when we obey His commandments, but that our love for God is perfected by Him in us as we walk in the light as He is in the light. John writes, 7” But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. “ (1 John 1) And then, “6 “He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.” (1 John 2)

For those who walk in the light as He is in the light, the 'love of God" is implanted and nurtured in us by Him. This is the good news. Are you experiencing the power of the gospel?

In Christ
Jeff

This is the Gospel: 77 times

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Act 24:24 And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ.

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Rom 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

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Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

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Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

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Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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Rom 9:1 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost,

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Rom 12:5 So we, [being] many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another.

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Rom 16:3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus:

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Rom 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

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Rom 16:9 Salute Urbane, our helper in Christ, and Stachys my beloved.

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Rom 16:10 Salute Apelles approved in Christ. Salute them which are of Aristobulus' [household].

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1Cr 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

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1Cr 1:30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

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1Cr 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, [even] as unto babes in Christ.

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1Cr 4:10 We [are] fools for Christ's sake, but ye [are] wise in Christ; we [are] weak, but ye [are] strong; ye [are] honourable, but we [are] despised.

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1Cr 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet [have ye] not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.

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1Cr 4:17 For this cause have I sent unto you Timotheus, who is my beloved son, and faithful in the Lord, who shall bring you into remembrance of my ways which be in Christ, as I teach every where in every church.

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1Cr 15:18 Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

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1Cr 15:19 If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

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1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

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1Cr 15:31 I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily.

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1Cr 16:24 My love [be] with you all in Christ Jesus. Amen. [[[The first [epistle] to the Corinthians was written from Philippi by Stephanas and Fortunatus and Achaicus and Timotheus.]]]

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2Cr 1:21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, [is] God;

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2Cr 2:14 Now thanks [be] unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place.

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2Cr 2:17 For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

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2Cr 3:14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which [vail] is done away in Christ.

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2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

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2Cr 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

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2Cr 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech [you] by us: we pray [you] in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.

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2Cr 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

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2Cr 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.

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2Cr 12:19 Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ: but [we do] all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying.

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Gal 1:22 And was unknown by face unto the churches of Judaea which were in Christ:

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Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:

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Gal 3:17 And this I say, [that] the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

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Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

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Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.

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Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

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Eph 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

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Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

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Eph 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:

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Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

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Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

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Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

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Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

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Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

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Eph 3:6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

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Eph 3:11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

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Phl 1:1 Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons:

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Phl 1:13 So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other [places];

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Phl 2:1 If [there be] therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,

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Phl 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:

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Phl 3:3 For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.

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Phl 3:14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

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Phl 4:21 Salute every saint in Christ Jesus. The brethren which are with me greet you.

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Col 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

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Col 1:4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love [which ye have] to all the saints,

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Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

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Col 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ.

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1Th 2:14 For ye, brethren, became followers of the churches of God which in Judaea are in Christ Jesus: for ye also have suffered like things of your own countrymen, even as they [have] of the Jews:

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1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

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1Th 5:18 In every thing give thanks: for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus concerning you.

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1Ti 1:14 And the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant with faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

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1Ti 2:7 Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, [and] lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

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1Ti 3:13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

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2Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

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2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

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2Ti 1:13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus.

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2Ti 2:1 Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.

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2Ti 2:10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

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2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

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2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

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Phm 1:6 That the communication of thy faith may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus.

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Phm 1:8 Wherefore, though I might be much bold in Christ to enjoin thee that which is convenient,

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Phm 1:23 There salute thee Epaphras, my fellowprisoner in Christ Jesus;

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1Pe 3:16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.

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1Pe 5:14 Greet ye one another with a kiss of charity. Peace [be] with you all that are in Christ Jesus. Amen.

and most of all our new life in Christ by the birthing. That is Christ in you:

Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Rom 8:10 And if Christ [be] in you, the body [is] dead because of sin; but the Spirit [is] life because of righteousness.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Romans 15:16-18 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

Romans 15:29-31 And I am sure that, when I come unto you, I shall come in the fulness of the blessing of the gospel of Christ. Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me; That I may be delivered from them that do not believe in Judaea; and that my service which I have for Jerusalem may be accepted of the saints;

What does Paul preach? The Mystery of the Gospel?

Colossians 1:23-29 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

1Cr 1:23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

And Him born again in us.

Jhn 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Jhn 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

One more time, In Christ: Phillip
and "Christ in you The Hope of Glory"

Brother Phillip

Why didn't you list the Scripture that says the gospel was preached in the OT as well? Did God enable the OT saints to love Him?

In Christ
Jeff

Of course it was, the gospel of Moses, not Paul's Gospel of Christ in you. The earthly gospel of created Israel and the Heavenly Gospel of Christ birthed in a person, a complete new person or as Paul says a new creature in Christ.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

What is a new creature?

Who is the beginning the first born of the dead?

Knowing those that came out of the graves when He rose, were they saved? Yes but not born again. The born again can only happen to the living. The ones that came out of the graves were the old testament saints and were seen of many. Born of the dead and born again are different. Born again are seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. The old testament saints born from the dead are waiting for their King on David's Throne in the New Jerusalem. We the born again are not waiting for our King, He is birthed in us. Where are we already seated?

I could not happen until after the cross especially it is I that believe that Jesus is the Son of God being born again anew a new creature in Christ Jesus.

Why do you think Christ will come for His own?

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

In Christ, a new creature birthed by God the Father by the Seed of Christ the first born of every creature in Him: Phillip

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

The whole of it: Colossians 1:17-29 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Phillip

Brother Phillip wrote:

Of course it was, the gospel of Moses, not Paul's Gospel of Christ in you. The earthly gospel of created Israel and the Heavenly Gospel of Christ birthed in a person, a complete new person or as Paul says a new creature in Christ.

Brother have you ever considered this Scripture...

Rom. 10:15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
\t“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
\tWho bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?”

In this we find that the "gospel of peace" was preached to the generation of Isaiah.

We know that this is not the gospel of Moses, first of all there is no such thing in Scripture. Furthermore, the law of Moses condemns, what then is Paul pointing to when he declares the the "gospel of peace" was preached to them in that generation?

Please do not add to Scripture, allow the pure word of God to speak to you.

In Christ
Jeff

Brother Phillip:

What is the gospel of peace which Paul declares?

In Christ
Jeff

"Christ in you the Hope of Glory"

Brother Phillip wrote:

"Christ in you the Hope of Glory"

I agree. Paul wrote that this 'gospel of peace" was preached in OT times also...

Romans 10:

15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written:
\t“How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the gospel of peace,
\tWho bring glad tidings of good things!”
16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “LORD, who has believed our report?” 17 So then faith
comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Again in another place in Scripture we find that this gospel was preached to the OT people.

Heb. 4:2 For indeed the gospel was preached to us as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in those who heard it.

So then according to Scripture, do you agree that the gospel of peace was preached in the OT as well?

In Christ
Jeff

2Pet. 1:5 But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, 6 to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, 7 to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

2Pet. 1:10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble; 11 for so an entrance will be supplied to you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

This is also part of the gospel...belief must be followed by walking with Christ...

8 For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he who lacks these things is shortsighted, even to blindness, and has forgotten that he was cleansed from his old sins.

If one does not grow in understanding and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ, one is likely to be barren and unfruitful. He is shortsighted, even to blindness.

Is Peter talking about physical blindness or spiritual blindness?

In Christ
Jeff