What I consider sound doctrine

I can just see where this thread will go brother

may everyone "discuss" with Love and in a way that glorifies Jesus, agree on most things but not all....

Assuming that you live by the principles you so diligently espouse, as not doing so would be so damning, then, sir, it must be a delight to be in your presence, and I am only sad we live so far apart. It would be both a privilge and pleasure to meet you; every element of your life must exemplify Christ incarnate.

Mike

PS In case there might be any uncertainty on anyone's part, this post contains not even the slightest hint of sarcasm.

I've defended these positions with an abundance of scriptures time and time again on these boards, but I just wanted to make it abundantly - plainly - and publicly known what I believe the Spirit of God has taught me through revelation.

No what you have done is avoid answering questions you cannot by alluding to the emotional or sarcastic, or even stretching history to make your agenda known. Brother Ron(philologos), myself and others have time and again tried to correct your misinterpretation of verses, or asked you what you were getting at, and strangely you either forget those threads exist, or avoid the questions altogether.

Now as for sinless perfection, and understanding that you mean it as a complete love for God, or something of that idea. How in the world can you stand before God, and say you have always loved your neighbour as yourself? I have unfortunately watched too many of your videos of you preaching, and what is displayed is not love and a genuine concern for the souls you are speaking to. Rather it is an egotistic barrage of hopelessness made even worse by the fact that all you care to do is anger people by your pompous unfounded declaration of sinlessness. You expect dead men to live, and then beat them for not doing so. How dare you, you are worse than Pharaoh demanding bricks without straw.

To be blunt, you are as the lawyers Jesus spoke of that bind heavy burdens upon people, and yet cannot carry them themselves. And another prime example of your type would be the Pharisee who prayed thus with himself, "Lord I thank you that I am not as other men, for I do not sin, I am wondrously pure because I have exercised my free-will and made myself born again. Oh thank you Lord that I am so wondrous."

Meanwhile a publican (whom you would despise and verbally accost, and probably not allow near the temple) cannot even lift up his face, and cries out, "Lord be merciful to me a sinner"

Wonder whom Jesus said went home justified, or declared righteous?

Free will is a figment of the imagination. For it is as a rock that can only sink, or move downwards. To do anything else, it requires an outside force. You cannot say that men are slaves to sin, yet free to choose for in this you express the double mindedness of your free will predecessors who have long been proved wrong.

If the will is enslaved in one point, it is not free at all. If it cannot do good(God's standard) on its own, then it is not free and must look outside itself for freedom.

I have really tried Jesse, but your doctrine is heresy reborn from the lies of Pelagius, and the Sophists through the annals of hell, and must be countered whenever possible. These are strong words, but because I love you and grieve for the souls you abuse I say this.

roaringlamb,

It's too bad your theology doesn't allow you to love your brother. Your post shows that you live up to it.
If you don't see love in Jesse's preaching, you are blind.

RoaringLamb there is no hope in your message. you make God to seem like He is too small to help us overcome sin. When He said He came to set us free from sin.

Your message is depressing sayng that christians will continue to struggle. That is unscriptural.

Galatians 5:24

24And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

1 John 5:4
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Where is your faith in God to lead us in victory, going from glory to glory, not defeat to defeat?

It is not of works that sets us free. It is FAITH, brother.

Here are some ore questions for you Jesse-

Do you love your wife as Christ loved the Church ALL the time? Do you ever get irritated with her, or she with you?

Has your wife been hurt by things you have said, or done?

Do you ever argue?

Do you ever worry about a bill being paid?

Do you ever not give thanks to God in everything?

There are more, but these should have blown your sinlessness out of the water. If not you should start doing marriage seminars! :-P

Note, I do not agree with all of Jesse's view.

I just wanted to share with roaringlamb in giving him hope and encouragement.

acutually I really disagree with a lot of Jesse's view.

roaringlamb wrote:
Here are some ore questions for you Jesse-

Do you love your wife as Christ loved the Church ALL the time? Do you ever get irritated with her, or she with you?

Has your wife been hurt by things you have said, or done?

Do you ever argue?

Do you ever worry about a bill being paid?

Do you ever not give thanks to God in everything?

There are more, but these should have blown your sinlessness out of the water. If not you should start doing marriage seminars! :-P

are tease things acceptable? or not as bad as other sins? I know what you are trying to say brother...but no sin is ever ok in any way or form, fore a believer...ever....

but [b]if[/b] we sin..... you know the rest :-)

The hope is Christ, and His life in me.

That is it, I am accepted because of Christ's death and resurrection. Now that His Spirit abides in me, I am being sanctified, and then when I see Him, I will be like Him because I will be transformed when I receive the glorified body at the resurrection of the dead.

I am sorry if this is depressing, but Christ promised the Cross in the here and now and that is a slow painful death, but He also promised glory in the life to come, and for that we must joyfully wait.

Now for anyone who say it is possible to live sinlessly in this life, what of this verse-

Romans 14:23b [b]" for whatsoever is not of faith is sin."[/b]

this verse is also quite "refreshing" James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

what do you people make of this verse? to me it is clear.

and this one

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

I do not believe in "sinless perfection" but pretty close :-) i do believe there are victory over all sin

Even if everyone in the world sins, God still says we must cease from sin.

Brother if you are anything like me, there are things that are sin to you now that were not even a year ago. Now if we died then would we have gone to hell?

To say that we must have absolutely no sin in this life to be accepted is right in one sense, because the sins of God's people have been laid upon Christ, thus removing the guilt and granting pardon, This is why Paul can dare to say-

Romans 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and [b]whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.[/b]

So it does not say anything there about sinless perfection, but rather glorification. Paul uses similar language in Ephesians and refers to us being seated in the Heavenly places with Christ.

As I have stated many times, a regenerated heart is a justified heart, and that justified heart will be being made a sanctified heart.

And no I do not believe that a man can indulge in sin without conviction and be a Christian just so the record is straight. A true child of God will have extreme displeasure with sin in his or her life.

Isn't pardon from God conditional upon repentance?

Pardon from God is based upon justification brought by faith which is only in the regenerated heart. God Himself births new life into the heart, and thus establishes new desires so that the molester now does not want to molest, the blasphemer no longer wants to blaspheme etc.

You come at this the wrong way supposing a man can fix himself, or re-birth himself and that is why you do not understand that a forgiven soul is a new soul even though there are remnants of sin that must be dealt with.

Isn't repentance necessary in order to get saved?

Yes. the regenerate heart now sees its crime against God, and sees Christ as the only Saviour from the penalty.

Repentance and faith must go together as one cannot go without the other, forgive me for overlooking that in my previous post.

But man will not repent until he has a new heart. That is where we will mainly disagree. I see the Gospel as being God's saving of people who don't even want to be saved(not violating their wills but renewing them so they desire Christ), and want nothing to do with Christ. But then the grace of God comes and by His Spirit enables men to believe, and receive justification.

This is why the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, because they cannot see any value in it with natural eyes.

roaringlamb wrote:
But man will not repent until he has a new heart.

Therfore, you are saying that one needs to be saved in order to repent.

roaringlamb wrote:
I see the Gospel as being God's saving of people who don't even want to be saved(not violating their wills but renewing them so they desire Christ), and want nothing to do with Christ.

The conviction gives one a desire for Christ to save from the sin being convicted of.

Amen Brother Logic.

I think you just used Logic. :-)

Getting a new heart(regeneration, born again) is salvation.
Therefore, you are saying that one needs to be saved in order to repent.

No, I am saying the new birth produces repentance, faith, justification, and sanctification. These are fruits of the new birth. Not causes of it.

There is no ability to truly do these things without the new birth. Natural man will not because he sees no need to.

God saves people by convicting them of their sin so they will repent to be saved.
The conviction gives one a desire for Christ to save from the sin being convicted of.

Wait, I thought man saved himself by his own choice to be saved. You mean God must first do something in order for men to react? ;-)

The conviction comes from the new birth, and thus will produce repentance.

Lazarus1719 wrote:

- God's commandments are not impossible and He expects us to keep them

Sinless Perfection is attainable in this life

A person must stop sinning in this life or they will not go to Heaven

Entire sanctification is necessary before justification can occur. A person must make a conscious choice to surrender everything to Jesus (all sin included) before they can be saved.

Conversion/Regeneration is a personal decision to deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow Jesus; a decision to repent and believe the gospel

- Sin is not a hereditary disease but a voluntary decision of the will, a wrong use of freewill

- Sin is a rebellious use of freewill against the Sovereign plan of God

- Babies are born innocent and sinless and voluntarily choose to corrupt themselves at the age of accountability

- Sinners are sinners by choice not birth

The future is partly open and partly settled and God knows it as such

- The foreknowledge of God consists in God foreknowing all certainties as certain and all possibilities as possible

- Jesus Christ died for everyone, his blood was a sin offering which makes it possible for God to forgive everyone conditionally

- Salvation is conditional upon repentance and faith

- Salvation can be lost by one act of rebellion

- The Church was wrong for condemning Pelagius and agreeing with Augustine

For the sinner, God's commandments are only posible when they come to christ so that the law may be fulfilled in them as they walk in accord with spirit.(Rom 8:4)

Look at the verse before it, and tell me who did what-
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For [b]what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:[/b]

Do you see that Christ fulfilled the Law on our behalf? and that is we if we believe we are free from sin and death? These are objective truths, they are true whether we feel it to be true or not. That is why the righteousness of the Law shall be worked out through us, that is the process of being conformed to the image of Christ is it not?

roaringlamb wrote:

Getting a new heart(regeneration, born again) is salvation.
Therefore, you are saying that one needs to be saved in order to repent.

No, I am saying the new birth produces repentance, faith, justification, and sanctification. These are fruits of the new birth. Not causes of it.

roaringlamb wrote:
There is no ability to truly do these things without the new birth. Natural man will not because he sees no need to.

roaringlamb wrote:

God saves people by convicting them of their sin so they will repent to be saved.
The conviction gives one a desire for Christ to save from the sin being convicted of.

Wait, I thought man saved himself by his own choice to be saved. You mean God must first do something in order for men to react?

One does not need a "new birth" in order to let truth efect him.
Why would one need to be saved(new birth) to be convicted of sin(the truth)? you have it backward.
One needs to be convicted of the truth(sin) to have the new birth.

Furthemore, it is not man saving himself!
It is man recognizing that he needs saved and acting upon the fact. Man is saved by faith in HIS Blood.
Mans choice to be saved is choosing to act upon the truth of what Jesus did and who he is.

Say Jesus is a boat. Man must choose to get in the boat.
Man must choose to aply HIS blood just as the children of Israel had to choose to put the blood on their doorposts.

Brother logic,

The term "saved" is an invented term for our day I suppose, and if I had to be technical I was saved before the foundation of the world(Eph 1:4,5), or even 2000 years ago when Christ bore my sins on Calvary.

So regeneration is not equal to salvation, but is a means of applying it.

You and I can go round and round about this, but I fear neither will convince the other. I once was on your side, I know the arguments, and am amazed that you, Jesse, and others think that I just fell off the turnip truck or something.

Brother two years ago I would have been Amening every word both you and Jesse have said, no longer for now I am convinced otherwise. And unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason here is where I will stand, so help me God by His grace through Christ.

But I never want you or Jesse to feel that I do not value you as brothers, and even though we have shared harsh words at times, it is good to have passion about what we believe else it would be nothing more than a hobby.

Blessings to you brother.

The term "saved" is an invented term for our day I suppose, and if I had to be technical I was saved before the foundation of the world(Eph 1:4,5), or even 2000 years ago when Christ bore my sins on Calvary.

roaringlamb, I am sure others are just as flabergasted as I am at this.

Being "saved" is not an invented term for our day! Just think: how many times is the word "saved" used in the New Testament?

Brother, when I say salvation, it is NOT what you mean as salvation.

We have different salvations.

My salvation is a salvation from sinning and from the wrath of God.

Your salvation is a salvation from the wrath of God. That's only half of salvation!

("half" - I am being simplistic for times sake.)

So regeneration is not equal to salvation, but is a means of applying it.

That's what we should discuss. Monergism and Synergism. Maybe I'll make a newthread for it sometime.

You bring up another reason why I reject your kind of atonement theory. Because according to it, you have been saved since the foundation of the world, or for the past 2000 years.

Well then you reject Scripture, not much I can do about that.

So you would not say that you were under the wrath of God in your life?

Of course I was until the actual work had been applied to me. All are lost until saved(have to get back to nile on this).

I am not a supralapsarian ;-)

You would not say that you were an enemy of God before you were converted?

Yes I would, but better yet God says I was.

Because Christ died for you even before you were converted, and therefore you are saying that you were saved before you were even converted?

No I am not saying this. The application had to be made, the new birth had to happen. In my first birth as all I was depraved and fallen thus I needed to be re-born. Christ died for me when I was a sinner. He died over 2000 years ago, and made justification possible for His people by dying for their sins.

That is what the commercial transaction view of the atonement teaches! That is what the satisfaction to retributive justice theory teaches! That the elect for whom Christ died were truly saved from God's wrath even before they were converted, because Christ satisfied the wrath of God for them before they were even born.

Substitutionary atonement is a must for a man to be justified. For he who knew no sin was made to be sin for us, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him. The OT shows clearly that substitutionary sacrifice was God's plan of dealing with the offences of his people.

No one is saved from God's wrath until they are reborn, now of course God would not allow one of the elect to perish prior to new birth, but that is another topic.

Being "saved" is not an invented term for our day! Just think: how many times is the word "saved" used in the New Testament?

Brother allow me to expound on what I meant and please forgive me for not fully explaining previously.

Generally, when someone says, "are you saved" they want to know if you have been born again, or they want an exact date of your new birth.

What I meant is that salvation has three main meanings, or stages.
1)I have been saved, which is justification. The penalty for sin is done away with.
2)I am being saved, which is sanctification. The power of sin has been defeated and I am now being molded into the image of Christ.
3)I shall be saved, which is glorification. The presence of sin is no longer a threat to me as I am in Heaven.

Your salvation is a salvation from the wrath of God. That's only half of salvation!

No that's justification, but that is the most important point of all, how can a man be declared right before God? My answer is as the Scriptures declare by faith in Christ.

Hello again Brother.

The power of sin has been defeated and I am now being molded into the image of Christ.

Brother, has that truly happened in you.

Has the power of sin over you really been defeated?
I would that it was true Brother, and would exedingly rejoice if it where true.

But brother, if sin has lost its power over you then you can live a sin free life.

Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
Isaiah 1:18

I still love you Brother.

roaringlamb wrote:
Brother logic,

The term "saved" is an invented term for our day I suppose, and if I had to be technical I was saved before the foundation of the world(Eph 1:4,5), or even 2000 years ago when Christ bore my sins on Calvary.

When people talk about being "saved", they are refereing to [b]Matthew 1:21[/b] [color=990000]And she shall bring forth a son, and you shall call his name JESUS: for he shall [b][u]save[/b] his people from their sins[/u].[/color]

So regeneration is not equal to salvation, but is a means of applying it.

Therefore you are in error, salvation is the "regeneration"

roaringlamb wrote:
You and I can go round and round about this, but I fear neither will convince the other. I once was on your side, I know the arguments, and am amazed that you, Jesse, and others think that I just fell off the turnip truck or something.

How do you turn the guilty into inocent?
You say that God gives all ability to come to Him because people are unable to, and make people guilty from a distant relitive(Adam) before thay are born.

roaringlamb wrote:
Brother two years ago I would have been Amening every word both you and Jesse have said, no longer for now I am convinced otherwise. And unless I am convinced by Scripture and plain reason here is where I will stand, so help me God by His grace through Christ.

roaringlamb wrote:
But I never want you or Jesse to feel that I do not value you as brothers, and even though we have shared harsh words at times, it is good to have passion about what we believe else it would be nothing more than a hobby.

roaringlamb wrote:
Of course I was until the actual work had been applied to me. All are lost until saved(have to get back to nile on this)...
...The application had to be made, the new birth had to happen...
...Christ died for me when I was a sinner. He died over 2000 years ago, and made justification possible for His people by dying for their sins

[b]PLEASE TELL ME WHY HE WOULD COMMAND AND NOT GIVE THE ABILITY TO OBEY THE COMAND?[/b]

by Lazarus1719 on 2007/9/15 8:02:02

For about 7 years I've been diligently studying the scriptures for the truth and have also read many books by great men of God and this is what I have come to believe:

- All men have a freewill, the power of contingent choice and are for that reasonable accountable for their actions

- God's commandments are not impossible and He expects us to keep them

- Sinless Perfection is attainable in this life

- A person must stop sinning in this life or they will not go to Heaven

- Entire sanctification is necessary before justification can occur. A person must make a conscious choice to surrender everything to Jesus (all sin included) before they can be saved.

- Conversion/Regeneration is a personal decision to deny yourself, pick up your cross, and follow Jesus; a decision to repent and believe the gospel

- Sin is not a hereditary disease but a voluntary decision of the will, a wrong use of freewill

- Sin is a rebellious use of freewill against the Sovereign plan of God

- Babies are born innocent and sinless and voluntarily choose to corrupt themselves at the age of accountability

- Sinners are sinners by choice not birth

- The future is partly open and partly settled and God knows it as such

- The foreknowledge of God consists in God foreknowing all certainties as certain and all possibilities as possible

- Jesus Christ died for everyone, his blood was a sin offering which makes it possible for God to forgive everyone conditionally

- Salvation is conditional upon repentance and faith

- Salvation can be lost by one act of rebellion

- The Church was wrong for condemning Pelagius and agreeing with Augustine

I've defended these positions with an abundance of scriptures time and time again on these boards, but I just wanted to make it abundantly - plainly - and publicly known what I believe the Spirit of God has taught me through revelation.

No doubt some of you may disagree with me on all points, some of you may agree with me on some points, and maybe a few actually agree on all points.

Hi Jesse,

A few questions I have to raise that has the potential to open a huge can of worms for all of us:

Do you believe in the inspiration, infallibility of Scripture; that the Bible you hold in your hands represents God's spoken revelation and hence it is without error or contradiction?

Where did the Bible come from?

Whose thinking does it reflect? God's or Man's?

Does it live up to its own claims?

Has Scripture been protected through the centuries from human tampering?

If the Bible in it's original manuscripts were written over an estimated period between 1500 years (1400BC? to 100AD?), what has prevented the text from being changed or altered in any way by man's carelessness or ill motives?

Let's look at how the bible explains itself:

7 The law of the Lord is perfect, ◙
reviving the soul;
the testimony of the Lord is sure,
making wise the simple;
8 the precepts of the Lord are right,
rejoicing the heart;
the commandment of the Lord is pure,
enlightening the eyes;
9 the fear of the Lord is clean,
enduring forever;
the rules of the Lord are true,
and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold,
even much fine gold;
sweeter also than honey
and drippings of the honeycomb.
11 Moreover, by them is your servant warned;
in keeping them there is great reward.
12 Who can discern his errors?
Declare me innocent from hidden faults.
13 Keep back your servant also from presumptuous sins;
let them not have dominion over me!
Then I shall be blameless,
and innocent of great transgression.
14 Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart
be acceptable in your sight,
O Lord, my rock and my redeemer.
Psalm 19:7-14

16All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 3:16-17

16For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. 17For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” 18we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. 19And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. 21For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter 1:16-21

So what is the Bible? Does it represent a hallmark of mere human literary achievement? Or is it indeed the inspired word of God, that is without error or contradiction, having been inspired and preserved by God himself?

If you adhere to the former, then there is a logical fallacy within your theology, brother. If man's relationship with God is indeed fully conditional on the part of free will, and hence man at any time could fall into sin and thus lose his salvation altogether, why should we trust the inspiration of the Bible when in fact it's authors could have at any time simply lost their standing before God? Would not such a possibility open the door for the probability of the Bible not being fully inspired and innerant?

If your view of free will is correct, how can we say that the inspiration of scripture was genuinely safeguarded from human error unless God himself intervened in the thought processes of free men?

On the otherhand, if the above were not the case and scripture was written by people who had attained sinless perfection without God needing to directly intervene in their thinking, 2 Peter 1:20-21 would have to be wrong, thus making the Bible contradictory and containing error.

In conclusion, the best scriptural proof against pelagian theology and it's offshoots is simply the revelation, inspiration, infallibility and innerancy of scripture in of itself as it is a perfect representation between the relationship between God and Man.

LiveforGod wrote:

The power of sin has been defeated and I am now being molded into the image of Christ.

Has the power of sin over you really been defeated?

roaringlamb wrote:
Brother logic,

The term "saved" is an invented term for our day I suppose, and if I had to be technical I was saved before the foundation of the world(Eph 1:4,5), or even 2000 years ago when Christ bore my sins on Calvary.

So regeneration is not equal to salvation, but is a means of applying it.

However, you are correct in that power of sin was broken.

Lazarus1719 wrote:
And it is from studying the bible that I have come to the doctrinal conclusions that I have come to. I can't argue with the bible. I submit unto it because it's the infallible Word of God.

The sinless perfection would mean to never, ever sin in deed and/or thought the rest of your entire life, how is this posible with our un-glorified flesh/bodies?

Logic wrote:

Lazarus1719 wrote:
And it is from studying the bible that I have come to the doctrinal conclusions that I have come to. I can't argue with the bible. I submit unto it because it's the infallible Word of God.

In the light of 1John 2:1, will you please explain why you say, "- Salvation can be lost by one act of rebellion"
[b]and[/b]
"Sinless Perfection is attainable in this life".

The sinless perfection would mean to never, ever sin in deed and/or thought the rest of your entire life, how is this posible with our un-glorified flesh/bodies?

If I may explain for him, sinless perfection does not mean that you [i]will[/i] never sin again. It means that you are [i]able[/i] to never sin again. You must still choose to not sin.

Also, do you think sin will not be an option in heaven? Consider - do we lose our free-will? Lucifer was in Heaven when he sinned.
No, I believe that we must continue to choose not to sin even once we get to heaven. To say otherwise is to say that we lose our freewill!

Nile

Also, do you think sin will not be an option in heaven? Consider - do we lose our free-will? Lucifer was in Heaven when he sinned.
No, I believe that we must continue to choose not to sin even once we get to heaven. To say otherwise is to say that we lose our freewill!

Brother are you saying that it is our willing not to sin that gets us into and keeps us in Heaven? I really hope not.

The Bible makes it clear that our soul will go to Heaven, and than our bodies shall be changed and made incorruptible. Or in other words glorified, and we shall not be able to sin. Here the body is corruptible, and will go from whence it came.

Your view has no need of Christ if you can by your own will get and keep yourself in Heaven. If this is your view, please explain what role Christ has in salvation for you?

Brother are you saying that it is our willing not to sin that gets us into and keeps us in Heaven? I really hope not.

The Bible makes it clear that our soul will go to Heaven, and than our bodies shall be changed and made incorruptible. Or in other words glorified, and we shall not be able to sin. Here the body is corruptible, and will go from whence it came.

Your view has no need of Christ if you can by your own will get and keep yourself in Heaven. If this is your view, please explain what role Christ has in salvation for you?

Willing not to sin is a condition of getting into heaven. Christ's death is the ground of getting into heaven.

But ultimately it is our decision that sways the vote? So is Christ's death the start, and we must maintain or lose our salvation?

Being in heaven and having an incorruptible body does not mean you lose free-will. Lucifer sinned. Adam sinned.

Satan still went to Heaven in Job, and appears in Revelation as the one who accuses the brethren.

Adam was in the garden of Eden when he sinned not Heaven.

Lastly, your view is contrary to Scripture, for Jesus said we would be like the angels, and since we never read of any other angels sinning, it is safe to say we shall be without sin, and unable to sin. Especially since the Bible says that [b]when we see Him, we shall be like Him.[/b]

We go to heaven of own will only in that we must "will" to want to go there. We cannot go to heaven merely because we will to though!

Sorry brother but you lost me here. There are lots of people who want to go to Heaven, even those who cast out demons, and did great works in Jesus' name, but they hear, "depart from me for I never knew you". So willing is not the ticket in.

But ultimately it is our decision that sways the vote? So is Christ's death the start, and we must maintain or lose our salvation?

Lastly, your view is contrary to Scripture, for Jesus said we would be like the angels, and since we never read of any other angels sinning, it is safe to say we shall be without sin, and unable to sin.

Especially since the Bible says that when we see Him, we shall be like Him.

Yes, ultimately the individual is responsible for their salvation.

Then it is a wonder that any are in Heaven at all. To think I thought Christ alone gained entrance for His people because He died for their sins.

What about Satan and the 1/3 of the angels that followed him?

After that, there is no mention of any others falling.

Brother if the Scriptures declare that when we see Christ, we shall be like Him, that means pure, sinless, and holy. The view you are putting forth makes it seem that this verse means Christ has sin in His being. Very dangerous.

Then it is a wonder that any are in Heaven at all. To think I thought Christ alone gained entrance for His people because He died for their sins.

God extends the grounds of salvation to everyone - it is up to the individual to fulfill the condition and obtain salvation.

"Except ye repent, ye shall likewise perish."

It is up to each man to repent or not.
It is his decision.

After that, there is no mention of any others falling.

Brother if the Scriptures declare that when we see Christ, we shall be like Him, that means pure, sinless, and holy. The view you are putting forth makes it seem that this verse means Christ has sin in His being. Very dangerous.