The End of the Rapture or the Rapture at the end

Brother "O", you are a God send.
Not to puff you up - but this message is "the greatest need of the hour". Undeniably. Never has a "word" been more necessary than this - truthfully - never.

Please see what Tim LaHaye and company are doing with their money and with this pre-trib lie that only came about around 1826 and fit the puzzle pieces together.

http://www.google.com/search?q=council+of+national+policy&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

Please forgive the size of this URL.

This is a very powerful group that has met with the President not that long ago and when the 18 of them, that were there came out, they were all whooping it up about attacking Iran and sending us into WW3 and having Russia then to attack US.

Excuse me - but why do I not see that as something to "whoop" about and why do I see it all as LaHaye and Company trying to self-fulfill prophecy?

Yes, this CNP has the Christians by the nose and is extremely influencial in exactly what they are titled to be - The Council of NATIONAL POLICY.
Jesus warns us to be as wise as Serpents but as Harmless as Doves.
Thank you.

Sorry to have upset you brother, but I haven't much else to say except that after reading the ECF, the "origin" of the belief and every verse in the Bible on the last days - yes, it is a lie.
And I feel no harm done to myself whatsoever if others would consider what we believe to be a lie. I don't take offense or take it personal when anything I believe is called a lie. No, not at all Sir.

The Lord wrote enough about the last days for us to 'know' and we're told 'to know'.
Sorry if we disagree, but yes I am adamant on this, because unless one is holding "the testimony of Jesus which is the spirit of prophecy" - they're going to have a very rough time discerning the times they are living in and I would be willing to wager a major bet - that if Keith Green should not have been killed in that plane crash, that he'd have come right out and taught eschatology differently by now.

I've known more men to change their view just within this last year alone, then I'd seen in over 40 years in the Church and since I've dug into this - I 'was' pre-trib many years ago.
Something's happening out there - to cause this polar shift in men's eschatology.

Again, sorry that you are upset.
I'll leave this one link to explain a little more, but you are still free to believe as you choose.
http://www.geocities.com/lasttrumpet_2000/timeline/index.html

I cannot apologize for calling it a lie but I can say, that I feel badly that you are so upset.
Eschatology is not "irrelevant". Jesus, Paul, Peter, Jude and John and our O.T. Prophets certainly didn't think so in the slightest. Very far from it.

A least you ended it with a :-).

Dear Brother Onesimus4God.

Thank you for your post.
You have written down really good texts to support your understanding of this matter. And you raised some interesting points..

Some people here might not agree, but I think that there is no other way to confront something
as important as this any other way.

Some people say that it is not important if we meet Jesus before or after the Tribulation, but I totally disagree.

firstly: As you said before, You believe all your life that at some point something should happen and it doesn't you might start questioning your faith. What else have I believed that isn't the truth?

Secondly: As Jesus mentioned before, this will be times that will be very difficult for the believer.

Matthew 24:22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened.

When Jesus said this I cannot but think how the disciples must have reacted. Here is Jesus, The loving saviour that always said conforting words to those around him. and now he is talking about terrible times. Times never seen before or after.

Matthew 24:7-13 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 "All these are the beginning of sorrows. 9 "Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. 10 "And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 "Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 "And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 "But he who endures to the end shall be saved.

But here is the promise:

He who endures to the End shall be saved..

It clearly tells me that at least some will be here until the very last moment.

And that is why it is very important for us to be prepared for this. For those who are preparing themselves to be part of this great tribulation is already going to be very difficult, I cannot imagine for the believer that thought he would be in heaven during all that , but instead find themselves facing something that they have never comtemplated.

So, yes, I think it is very important to study the word of God and ask the guidance of the Holy Spirit for this will be times that if wasn't for God's mercy to the Elects no flesh would survive. We are not talking about a man made war here, this is war Between God and Satan and Satan knows he has lost already. So if you a believer, if you gave your life to Christ, he is going to be after you like a angry lion for he knows his time is short.

Thank you Brother for voicing something that will make us go to the Book in prayer to find what God is trying to Tells us now, so we can prepare for those terrible days.

And do not forget.

He who endures to the End shall be saved.

A real pleasure to have you here.....

Hi David - yes, it is an anti-pre-trib site. He debates with the head of Tim LaHayes Pre-Trib Org..

About your first question up there - Yes, we "meet Him in the "air" and the dead in Christ rise first and we do not precede them - but they precede us in the "resurrection" and we all meet "in the air" as HE is Coming in the clouds, just like He left.

He only comes back once, with the clouds and the angels and the Glory and like a theif in the night - but only like a thief in the night to those who aren't "awake and watching" and with sufficient oil in their lamps. You don't need oil lamps "at" - "the brightness of His appearing" - only to see your way through the darkness that precedes His Coming.

As far as the marriage supper - could you give me the Scriptures that teach you about "it".
Thank you David.

Brother David, I think you took offense where Eli meant none at all. He's never called anyone "names" and he was only encouraging you to be open to an exchange of the Scriptures.
David, we all must be open to examining ALL of the Scriptures from the O.T. to the new and not just a few here and there.
That is what I for one have done and others here.
How can you say you could win a debate with a man who has posted pages that you haven't read - such as the one posted on page one about the accurate "origin" of the pre-trib teaching ?
The Early Church and Early Church Fathers did not teach a pre-trib rapture.
Over 40 years of researching just this so-called Mystery and where it came from and yet, folks are too afraid to really look at the Biblical and Historical proofs.
Misunderstanding Eli has only closed off all communications on this thread that "O" started.
I don't think anyone truly read his post.
All doctrines must be backed up with every Scripture in the Bible that mentions that particular subject - in this case, the last days and His Coming.
You have been "taught" pre-trib, just as I had been and I believed it and taught it in my Ministry. But then I began to find the verses that contradict a pre-trib doctrine and that is when I focused on this doctrine from cover to cover of my Bible. I was trying to 'prove' pre-trib and instead found out that I had been taught a teaching compiled by men based upon a very few of the Scriptures that speak about the last days. I found that the verses I was taught, were taken out of context and most were not taken literally, but "meanings" were being placed on them - such as Rev. 4 - that they claim is the rapture.
If you are not open to comparing Scripture for Scripture, but just insist that you could debate Tim Warner - then, it is no use to even try to answer any further questions, because you've admitted that your mind is settled on this issue and you are not open to compare Scripture with Scripture.
Read Eli's post again, at the least, and see that he did not call you names and that if you knew him at all, you'd find he is one of the most polite posters on this Forum.
That's all I can say.
I'd just like to post to the topic of this thread now and not to anyone but to the topic.
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Commentary on -

MATTHEW 24:29-35 J.C. Ryle

But immediately after the oppression of those days, the sun will be darkened, the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken; and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. Then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. He will send out his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together his elect ones from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.

"Now from the fig tree learn this parable. When its branch has now become tender, and puts forth its leaves, you know that the summer is near. Even so you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Most certainly I tell you, this generation will not pass away, until all these things are accomplished. Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will not pass away.

In this part of our Lord's prophecy, He describes His own second coming, to judge the world. This, at all events, seems the natural meaning of the passage. To take any lower view appears to be a violent straining of Scripture language. If the solemn words here used mean nothing more than the coming of the Roman armies to Jerusalem, we may explain away anything in the Bible. The event here described is one of far greater moment than the march of any earthly army. It is nothing less than the closing act of this dispensation, the second personal advent of Jesus Christ.

These verses teach us, in the first place, that when the Lord Jesus returns to this world, He shall come with peculiar glory and majesty. He shall come "in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." Before His presence the very sun, moon, and stars shall be darkened, and "the powers of heaven shall be shaken."

The SECOND personal coming of Christ shall be as different as possible from the FIRST. He came the first time as a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. He was born in the manger of Bethlehem, in lowliness and humiliation. He took on him the form of a servant, and was despised and rejected of men. He was betrayed into the hands of wicked men, condemned by an unjust judgment, mocked, scourged, crowned with thorns, and at last crucified between two thieves. He shall come the second time as the King of all the earth, with all royal majesty. The princes and great men of this world shall themselves stand before His throne to receive an eternal sentence. Before him every mouth shall be stopped, and every knee bow, and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord. May we all remember this. Whatever ungodly men may do now, there will be no scoffing, no jesting at Christ, no infidelity at the last day. The servants of Jesus may well wait patiently. Their master shall one day be acknowledged King of kings by all the world.

These verses teach us, in the second place, that when Christ returns to this world, He will first take care of His believing people. He shall "send his angels," and "gather together his elect."
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=3593

I am not "offended" by your post. Rather, I felt frustrated by your choice of wording. The problem with your post was not that you believe that the teaching of a "pre-trib rapture" is a lie." The problem that I see is that you refrained from distinguishing your belief (or assumption) from truth. You have left no room for error. It seems that you feel 100% certain of something that, with our limited eschatology, cannot be completely determined by Scripture.

Do you see the problem with this? You have willfully criticized a sincere doctrinal belief that is accepted by many believers around the globe. You not only described the belief as "incorrect," but you have labeled it a "LIE." This makes the people that preach it "LIARS," and those who believe it "FOOLS."

CCChhhrrriiisss, I've watched many of the debates on this forum and being a "News and Current Events" type - have watched you all debate issues, not just political. On every thread, I've seen strong disagreements being exchanged and on most all - even those that you were involved in - there were the "this is not true - this is 'fiction' - this is falsehood" type replies. I've noticed where each person has very strong feelings on certain topics, including yourself.
If I say that a doctrine is not true - I am saying what is being said on most threads here.
To say that something is not true - is to say it is a lie. [Websters]
Even on "political" threads, I've read these "that's not true" replies.

HAVE I called anyone a "LIAR or FOOL" ??

You are baiting and bringing in antagonism and riling this subject up by straining over one three lettered word that defines a false belief - that the N.T. Authors themselves used.
1Jn 2:21 "I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth." Rom 1:25 "Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen." 1Jn
[b] [concerning the antichrist - Paul writes - >]2Th 2:11 "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie"[/b] 1Jn 1:6 "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and [b]do[/b] not the truth"

If one believes OSAS is a lie, a falsehood, fiction, false doctrine, that is their right here. Or vice versa.
Until I call someone a LIAR OR FOOL - you should not Insinuate and take a potentially good thread off into these "personal" problems.

If one believes that is doctrine is "NOT TRUE" - what is a synonym for "Not True" ?

You have said some things about post-trib that can be interpreted that the belief is "not true" in some of your paragraphs above. "Not true" = a lie in God's Word.

The thread had just begun and we haven't had the chance to post the Scripture we believe sheds light on when HE said HE would "gather" His Elect, but off it went into the - personal and splitting hairs on how some term "fiction - falsehood - not correct teaching - not Scriptural doctrines" when my old Webster's says that I can use a three lettered word for all of the above - 'lie'.

God's Word is either taught in Truth or it is a lie. No gray areas. Paul said, "I would not have you ignorant".
In the Spiritual - there are no Gray areas. It is either Truth or a lie. That is N.T. language.
I do not nick-pick with much brother -- but when it comes to people believing they won't be here when Antichrist is revealed nor go through the greatest calamities this world has ever seen - then Yes, out of LOVE alone - I get nick-picky, to save people from that Delusion Paul mentions above.

When I and whomever else is freed up from all of these "personals" - we will be freed to post [u]Scripture[/u].
Mid-Trib or Pre-Wrath don't bother me - because at the least, they know that the Lord told us to "watch - and count the number of the beast" and so on - but Pre-Trib is the only belief that does not believe we need to do so. They do not feel that they will have to avoid the mark. They believe they will be Gone when antichrist rules.
You betcha I worry about that for their sakes - and not to just prove I'm "right" on an "irrelevant" or non-consequential teaching.

[b][u]Justin Martyr (A.D. 110-165)[/b][/u]

"Two advents of Christ have been announced: the one, in which He is set forth as suffering, inglorious, dishonored, and crucified; but the other,[b] in which He shall come from heaven with glory, when the man of apostasy, who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians[/b], ... Now it is evident that no one can terrify or subdue us who have believed in Jesus over all the world. For it is plain that, though beheaded, and crucified, and thrown to wild beasts, and chains, and fire, and all other kinds of torture, we do not give up our confession; but the more such things happen, the more do others and in larger numbers become faithful, and worshippers of God through the name of Jesus." [Dialog with Trypho, CX]

[u][b]Irenaeus: Discipled by Polycarp who was discipled by John. (AD. 120-202)[/u][/b]
"Moreover, another danger, by no means trifling, shall overtake those who falsely presume that they know the name of Antichrist. For if these men assume one [number], [b]when this [Antichrist] shall come having another, they will be easily led away by him, as supposing him not to be the expected one, who must be guarded against[/b]. These men, therefore, ought to learn [what really is the state of the case], and go back to the true number of the name, that they be not reckoned among false prophets. But, knowing the sure number declared by Scripture, that is, six hundred sixty and six, [b][u]let them await[/u], in the first place, the division of the kingdom into ten; then, in the next place, when these kings are reigning, and beginning to set their affairs in order, and advance their kingdom, [let them learn] to acknowledge that he who shall come claiming the kingdom for himself, and shall terrify those men of whom we have been speaking, having a name containing the aforesaid number, is truly the abomination of desolation. ... It is therefore more certain, and less hazardous, to await the fulfillment of the prophecy, than to be making surmises[/b], and casting about for any names that may present themselves, inasmuch as many names can be found possessing the number mentioned; and the same question will, after all, remain unsolved. ... But he indicates the number of the name now, that [b]when this "man" comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: ... But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, [u]HE will reign for three years and six months[/u], and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this "man" and those who follow "him" into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest[/b], the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob." [Irenaeus: Against Heresies, Book V, XXX]

" an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God; and that, although a mere slave, he wishes himself to be proclaimed as a king. For he being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, nor a legitimate king in subjection to God, but an impious, unjust, and lawless 'one'; as an apostate, iniquitous, and murderous, as a robber, concentrating in himself satanic apostasy, and seeking aside idols to persuade that he himself is God raising up himself as the only idol, having in himself the multifarious errors of the other idols. This he does, in order that they who do worship the devil by means of many abominations, may serve himself by this one idol, of whom the apostle thus speaks in the second Epistle to the Thessalonians."

"And there is therefore in this beast, when "HE"[ ( Antichrist ) comes, a recapitulation made of all sorts of iniquity and of every deceit, in order that all apostate power, flowing into and being shut up in him, may be sent into the furnace of fire...since he sums up in his own person all the commixture of wickedness which took place previous to the deluge, due to the apostasy of the angels."

"[b]In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord’s disciples what shall happen in the last times[/b], and concerning the ten kings who shall then arise...These have one mind, and give their strength and power to the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, because He is the Lord of lords, and King of kings...And they (Ten Kings) shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the church to flight. After that they shall be destroyed by the coming of our Lord.” [Against Heresies V, XXVI, 1]

"[b]But he indicates the number of the name now, that when this man comes 'we' may avoid him, being aware of who he is:[/b]...But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, [u]he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple in Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that “many coming from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.” [Against Heresies V, XXX, 2, 4]

"For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken [b]in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming of the Antichrist, and the destruction of nations under his rule[/b]; in (the times of) which (resurrection) the righteous shall reign on the earth...and those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven, and [b]who have suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked 'one' (Antichrist).[/b]" [Against Heresies V, XXXV, 1]

[b]Hippolytus: Bishop of Portus, was a disciple of Irenaeus who was discipled by Polycarp who was discipled from John.(AD. 170-236) [/b]

"[b]As these things, then, are in the future[/b], and as the ten toes of the image are equivalent to (so many) democracies, and the ten horns of the fourth beast are distributed over ten kingdoms, let us look at the subject a little more closely, and consider these matters as in the clear light of a personal survey. The golden head of the image and the lioness denoted the Babylonians; the shoulders and arms of silver, and the bear, represented the Persians and Medes; the belly and thighs of brass, and the leopard, meant the Greeks, who held the sovereignty from Alexander’s time; the legs of iron, and the beast dreadful and terrible, expressed the Romans, who hold the sovereignty at present; the toes of the feet which were part clay and part iron, and the ten horns, were emblems of [b]the kingdoms that are yet to rise; the other little horn that grows up among them meant the Antichrist in their midst[/b]; the stone that smites the earth and brings judgment upon the world was Christ." [Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 27,28]

[b] It is proper that we take the Holy Scriptures themselves in hand, and find out from them what, and of what manner, the coming of Antichrist is; on what occasion and at what time that impious one shall be revealed; and whence and from what tribe (he shall come); and what his name is, which is indicated by the number in Scripture; and how he shall work error among the people, gathering them from the ends of the earth; and (how) he shall stir up tribulation and persecution against the saints; and how he shall glorify himself as God; and what his end shall be; and how the sudden appearing of the Lord shall be revealed from heaven; and what the conflagration of the whole world shall be; and what the glorious and heavenly kingdom of the saints is to be, when they reign together with Christ; and what the punishment of the wicked by fire...With respect to his name, it is not in our power to explain it exactly, as the blessed John understood it and was instructed about it, but only to give a conjectural account of it; for when he appears, the blessed one will show us what we seek to know... Wherefore we ought neither to give it out as if this were certainly his name, nor again ignore the fact that he may not otherwise be designated. But having the mystery of God in our heart, we ought in fear to keep faithfully what has been told us by blessed prophets, in order that when those things come to pass, we may be prepared for them, and not be deceived. For when the times advance, he too, of whom these things are said, will be manifest...Now concerning the tribulation of the persecution which is to fall upon the Church from the adversary, John also speaks thus, "And I saw a great and wondrous sign in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, ... And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent”...That refers to the one thousand two hundred and threescore days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church.... These things then, being come to pass, beloved, and the one week being divided into two parts, and the abomination of desolation being manifested then, and the two prophets and forerunners of the Lord having finished their course, and the whole world finally approaching the consummation, what remains but the coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ from heaven, for whom we have looked in hope." [Treatise on Christ and Antichrist, 5, 50, 60, 61, 64][/b]

"on account of his tyranny and violence. For the deceiver seeks to liken himself in all things to the Son of God. Christ is a lion, so Antichrist is also a lion; Christ is a king, so Antichrist is also a king. The Savior was manifested as a lamb; so he too in like manner, will appear as a lamb, though within he is a wolf. The Savior came into the world in the circumcision, and he will come in the same manner. The Lord sent apostles among all the nations, and he in like manner will send false apostles. The Savior gathered together the sheep that were scattered abroad, and he in like manner will bring together a people that is scattered abroad. The Lord gave a seal to those who believed on Him; and he will give one in like manner. The Savior appeared in the form of man, and he too will come in the form of a man. The Savior raised up and showed His holy flesh like a temple, and he will raise a temple of stone in Jerusalem."

"He ( Antichrist )will be harsh, severe, passionate, wrathful, terrible, inconstant, dread, morose, hateful, abominable, savage, vengeful, iniquitous. And, bent on casting the whole race of men into the pit of perdition, he will multiply false signs."[/u]

“When the times are fulfilled, and the ten horns spring from the beast in the last (times), then Antichrist will appear among them. [b]When he makes war against the saints, and persecutes them, then may we expect the manifestation of the Lord from heaven.[/b] [Fragments from Commentaries, II, 7]

"shall be sent through every city and country to destroy the faithful; and the saints shall travel from the west to the east, and shall be driven in persecution from the east to the south, while others shall conceal themselves in the mountains and caves; and the abomination shall war against them everywhere, and shall cut them off by the sea and by land by his decree, and shall endeavor by every means to destroy them out of the world; and they shall not be able any longer to sell their own property, nor to buy from strangers, unless one keeps and carries with him the name of the beast, or bears its mark upon his forehead. For then they shall all be driven out from place to place, and dragged from their own homes and haled into prison, and punished with all manner of punishment, and cast out from the whole world." These shall awake to everlasting life."

[b][u]Lactantius (260-330)[/b][/u]

"He ( Antichrist ) shall harass the word with an intolerable rule; shall mingle things divine and human; shall contrive things impious to relate, and detestable; shall meditate new designs in his breast, that he may establish the government for himself; he will change the laws, and appoint his own; he ( Antichrist )will contaminate, plunder, spoil, and put to death."

[u][b]Tertullian (c. 160 - 225) [/b][/u]

“...that the city of fornication may receive from the ten kings its deserved doom, and [b]that the beast Antichrist, with his false prophet may wage war on the Church of God[/b]...Since, then, the Scriptures both indicate the stages of the last times, and concentrate on [b]the harvest of the Christian hope in the very end of the world ...Now the privilege of this favor (the resurrection) awaits those who shall at the coming of the Lord be found in the flesh, and who shall, owing to the oppressions of the time of Antichrist, deserve by an instantaneous death, which is accomplished by a sudden change, to become qualified to join the rising saints...[/b]” [On the Resurrection of the Flesh, XXV, 7 and XLI]
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Polycarp-Pupil of John the Apostle (AD. 70-156)

THE EPISTLE OF POLYCARP TO THE PHILIPPIANS
CHAPTER VI.--THE DUTIES OF PRESBYTERS AND OTHERS
"we must all appear at the judgment-seat of Christ, and must every one give an account of himself." Let us then serve Him in fear, and with all reverence, even as He Himself HAS COMMANDED US, AND AS THE APOSTLES WHO PREACHED THE GOSPEL UNTO US, and the prophets who proclaimed beforehand the coming of the Lord [have alike taught us]."

CHAPTER II.--AN EXHORTATION TO VIRTUE
"But He who raised Him up from the dead WILL raise up us also"

PAPIAS-Pupil of John the Apostle (AD. 70-155)

FRAGMENTS OF PAPIAS FROM THE EXPOSITION OF THE ORACLES OF THE LORD. V.
"those who are deemed worthy of an abode in heaven SHALL go there, others SHALL enjoy the delights of Paradise, and others SHALL possess the splendour of the city; for everywhere the Saviour WILL BE seen, according as they SHALL BE worthy who see Him."

VI.

"there WILL BE a millennium AFTER the resurrection from the dead, when the personal reign of Christ WILL BE established on this earth"

IGNATIUS-Pupil of John the Apostle (AD. 67-110)

THE EPISTLE OF IGNATIUS TO THE TRALLIANS
CHAPTER IX
"He was also truly raised from the dead, His Father quickening Him, even as after the same manner His Father WILL SO raise up us who believe in Him by Christ Jesus"

CHAPTER I.--DESIRE OF IGNATIUS FOR MARTYRDOM.

"Ignatius, the disciple of John the apostle, a man in all respects of an apostolic character, governed the Church of the Antiochians with great care, having with difficulty escaped the former storms of the many persecutions under Domitian"

Irenaeus-Student of John the Apostles's pupil Polycarp (AD. 120-202)

AGAINST HERESIES, BOOK V, XXX
"But he indicates the number of the name now, that WHEN this man comes we may avoid him, being aware who he is: ..But when this Antichrist SHALL HAVE devastated all things in this world, he will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord WILL COME from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom"

AGAINST HERESIES, BOOK V, XXVI, 1

"In a still clearer light has John, in the Apocalypse, indicated to the Lord's disciples what SHALL HAPPEN IN THE LAST TIMES, and concerning the ten kings WHO SHALL THEN arise, ... These have one mind, and give their strength and power to the beast. THESE SHALL make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb SHALL OVERCOME them, because He is the Lord of lords, and King of kings. ... And THEY SHALL lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and SHALL GIVE their kingdom to the beast, and put the church to flight. AFTER THAT THEY SHALL be destroyed by the coming of our Lord."

AGAINST HERESIES, BOOK V, XXXV, 1

"For ALL these and other words were UNQUESTIONABLY SPOKEN IN REFERENCE TO THE RESURRECTION OF THE JUST, WHICH TAKES PLACE AFTER the coming of Antichrist, AND the destruction of all nations under his rule; IN [the times of] WHICH [resurrection] THE RIGHTEOUS SHALL reign on the earth, waxing stronger by the sight of the Lord: and through Him they SHALL become accustomed to partake in the glory of God the Father, and SHALL enjoy in the kingdom intercourse and communion with the holy angels, and union with spiritual beings; and those whom the Lord SHALL FIND IN THE FLESH, AWAITING HIM from heaven, and WHO HAVE suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked one."

Hippolytus-Student of Iranaeus of the direct teaching lineage of John (AD. 170-236)

TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, 5
"It is proper that we take the Holy Scriptures themselves in hand, and find out from them what, and of what manner, THE COMING of Antichrist is; ON WHAT OCCASION AND AT WHAT TIME that impious one shall be revealed; and whence and from what tribe (he shall come); and what his name is, which is indicated by the number in Scripture; and how he SHALL WORK error among the people, gathering them from the ends of the earth; and (how) he SHALL stir up tribulation and persecution against the saints; and how he SHALL glorify himself as God; and what his end SHALL BE; and how the sudden appearing of the Lord SHALL BE revealed from heaven; and what the conflagration of the whole world SHALL BE; and what the glorious and heavenly kingdom of the saints IS TO BE, when they reign together with Christ; and what the punishment of the wicked by fire."

TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, 27,28

"As THESE THINGS, then, ARE IN THE FUTURE, and as the ten toes of the image are equivalent to (so many) democracies, and the ten horns of the fourth beast are distributed over ten kingdoms, let us look at the subject a little more closely, and consider these matters as in the clear light of a personal survey. The golden head of the image and the lioness denoted the Babylonians; the shoulders and arms of silver, and the bear, represented the Persians and Medes; the belly and thighs of brass, and the leopard, meant the Greeks, who held the sovereignty from Alexander's time; the legs of iron, and the beast dreadful and terrible, expressed the Romans, who hold the sovereignty at present; the toes of the feet which were part clay and part iron, and the ten horns, were emblems of the kingdoms that are yet to rise; the other little horn that grows up among them meant the Antichrist in their midst"

TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, 27,28

"With respect to his name, it is not in our power to explain it exactly, as the blessed John understood it and was instructed about it, but only to give a conjectural account of it; for when he appears, the blessed one will show us what we seek to know. ... Wherefore we ought neither to give it out as if this were certainly his name, nor again ignore the fact that he may not otherwise be designated. But having the mystery of God in our heart, we ought in fear to keep faithfully what has been told us by blessed prophets, in order that WHEN THOSE THINGS COME TO PASS, we may be prepared for them, and not be deceived. FOR WHEN THE TIMES ADVANCE, he too, of whom these things are said, will be manifest."

TREATISE ON CHRIST AND ANTICHRIST, 60, 61, 64

"Now concerning the tribulation of the persecution WHICH IS to fall upon the Church from the adversary, John also speaks thus, "And I saw a great and wondrous sign in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, ... And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent." That refers to the one thousand two hundred and threescore days (the half of the week) during which the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church.... These things then, being come to pass, beloved, and the one week being divided into two parts, and the abomination of desolation being manifested then, and the two prophets and forerunners of the Lord having finished their course, and the whole world finally approaching the consummation, what remains but the coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ from heaven, for whom we have looked in hope."

FRAGMENTS FROM COMMENTARIES, II, 7

"WHEN THE TIMES ARE FULFILLED, and the ten horns spring from the beast in the last (times), then Antichrist WILL APPEAR among them. WHEN HE MAKES war against the saints, and persecutes them, THEN MAY WE EXPECT the manifestation of the Lord from heaven."

[b]2Th 2:2-4 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
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Is The Pretribber In Danger Of Accepting A New Age Christ? [/b]

In "Jerome's Apology In Answer To Rufinus--Book III" (AD 402) from the writings of the early Church fathers, Jerome wrote,

"Yet it behoves us to know that the enemy is wont to counterfeit this salutary advent of Christ with cunning fraud in order to deceive the faithful, and in the place of the Son of Man, Who is looked for as coming in the majesty of His Father, to prepare the Son of Perdition with prodigies and lying signs, that instead of Christ he may introduce Antichrist into the world; of whom the Lord Himself warned the Jews beforehand in the Gospels, "Because I am come in My Father's Name, and ye received Me not, another will come in his own name, and him ye will receive." And again, "When ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the Prophet, standing in the holy place, let him that readeth understand." Daniel, therefore, in his visions speaks very fully and amply of the coming of that delusion: but it is not worth while to cite instances, for we have enlarged enough already; we therefore refer any one who may wish to know more concerning these matters to the visions themselves. The Apostle also himself says, "Let no than deceive you by any means, for that day shall not come except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the Son of Perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above everything that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself as though himself were God." And soon afterwards, "Then shall that wicked one be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus shall slay with the breath of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders." And again, shortly afterwards, "And therefore the Lord shall send unto them strong delusion, that they may believe a lie, that all may be judged who have not believed the truth."' For this reason, therefore, is this "delusion" foretold unto us by the words of Prophets, Evangelists, and Apostles, lest any one should mistake the coming of Antichrist for the coming of Christ. But as the Lord Himself says, "When they shall say unto you, lo, here is Christ, or lo, He is there, believe it not. For many false Christs and false prophets shall come and shall seduce many." But let us see how He hath pointed out the judgment of the true Christ: "As the lightning shineth from the east unto the west, so shall the coming of the Son of Man be."

Jerome warned of a coming of the antichrist being mistaken for the coming of Christ. Today many debate whether the Pretribulation doctrine is dangerous, that whether or not Christians could be deceived into following this false Christ. I believe it is, because

It tells Christians to look for Christ to come at a time when He will not come, opening the door to a false "Christ" to be followed

It tells Christians that when this "Christ" comes, he will take them somewhere by means of a spiritual experience
The Pretrib belief in immanency - that there is nothing else to be fulfilled before Jesus comes - opens the door for this deception because He can now come at any time, even today or tomorrow. In Posttribulationism, Christ can only be immanent when we reach the end of the tribulation period when the events of the sixth seal will take place.

Some Pretribbers show the uncertainty of their belief in the doctrine by saying that if Jesus does not come just before or at the inception of the Tribulation, they wouldn't be deceived. But, I say, some do not know the power of deception. They've already fallen for a false doctrine, the seeds of which came from spirits not of God. Many in the Church today have fallen for the current apostasy after centuries of being warned that such an event will definitely happen. Deception is a very possible thing in the Church, especially in this day and age. Is there such a strong deception ahead that Christians will fall for a false "Christ" coming at a different time? I believe the strong possibility is there. In spite of the tremendous amount of evidence coming forth regarding Ribera, Lacunza, Macdonald, Irving, Kelly and Darby, not to mention the Pretribbers being presented excellent Scriptural evidence there is no Pretrib rapture, the vast majority of Pretribulationists refuse to turn from their error. In fact, it seems any debate only hardens their heart all the more.

In Jesus' own description of His overwhelmingly visible parousia that occurs "immediately after the tribulation," He warned of deceit several times:

Matthew 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Note - these are warnings from the Lord Himself against DECEIT: "Take heed," "shall deceive many," and "if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect . . . Behold, I have told you before . . . believe it not." Jesus wasn't just blowing off steam. He was the Son delivering a message of warning and danger from His heavenly Father concerning the culmination of all that God had been doing since time began.

Of special interest is Jesus' statement concerning false prophets in verses 10 and 11, where the prophets instigate an apparently successful apostasy, turning many from the faith. As a result, love among God's people grows cold, and is replaced by hate. Whenever true and deceptive messages are mixed, there is division resulting in visible apostasy and a change in ultimate vision. All that is needed to start this process is one small change in the truth. From then on, it is just a matter of letting the weed grow to fruition.

The devil's goal is unity in the world and apostasy in the Church, for the purpose of leading the Church into that world through spiritual deception to a false Christ. How deep can such deception go? We believe it is this deep: the devil has most likely set up the coming of a false Christ to mimic the parousia anticipated in pretribulationism (and other isms, except posttribulationism - I will deal only with pretribulationism here). Heirs to the belief that only Christians will see Jesus' coming for the Church before the tribulation, either visibly or invisibly, pretribbers are most likely one of the targets for the New Age occult (meaning "secret") "leap into the heavens" I will now describe.

In the prologue of his book, "Inside The New Age Nightmare" (pp.89-91), Randall Baer writes that he was involved in Eastern mysticism since his teenage years, eventually becoming an international New Age teacher on the national teaching circuit. The reason he wrote this book was because he became a Christian. He said "I want you to know exactly what the New Age Movement is about."

Baer discusses two major schools of New Age thought concerning humanity:

The first is transformational, in which all men reach a state of consciousness that enables them to see that heaven has been here on earth all the time, and they finally reach a point where they can see it.

[b]Edit: Please read: http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/leonardsweet.htm [/b]

The second school of thought, labeled the "Quantum Leap of Consciousness," has a strong similarity to Pretribulationism. This Quantum Leap into the heavens is typified in Baer's quote from a New Age Center's literature:

"We are on the brink of a new age, a whole new world. In the twinkling of an eye, mankind's awareness, our collective consciousness, is going to make an instantaneous quantum leap into the heavens. Everything will change in a flash of divine Light. Get ready. Your heavenly heritage awaits. Come on in; the water's fine . . . He who hesitates is lost . . . . He who chooses life is found" (From promotional material from "The Center for New Age Light.")

Terminology borrowed from scripture, no doubt. Baer sums up the above quote with the statement that some factions of the New Age believe that "Earth and humanity will literally leap in a flash of light into the heavens above."

He goes on to say that this Quantum Leap model "is directly tied to some form of divine intervention. Though there are a rich variety of concepts about the nature and form of this divine intervention, essentially a sovereign and omnipotent celestial force is said to deliver Earth into the heavens above. Various groups attribute this intervention to various sources."

Baer closes this section with the statement that the Quantum Leap view contains within itself predominant themes that "lie much more towards mediumship, spiritism, witchcraft, psychic powers, and sorceries in myriad shapes and forms." He attributes increased levels of demonic forces in the world today to this branch of the New Age belief system.

The New Age has long expected such an experience of change, promoted through New Age philosophers such as Pierre Teilhard de Chardin (Omega Point) and Matthew Fox's Creation Spirituality (Quantum Leap).

Could Christians be deceived to the point of accepting the coming of "a [supposed] sovereign and omnipotent celestial force" masquerading as Christ? I believe the seeds of such an acceptance are viable. Hints of the "mediumship, spiritism, witchcraft, psychic powers, and sorceries in myriad shapes and forms" are evident in the origins of the pretribulation doctrine. For instance, we've already looked at Margaret Macdonald's spiritistic vision concerning the second coming which was delivered by a spirit not of God, and it draws very close to what some New Agers describe as "The Second Coming.".

So, is there a hint of evidence that Christians can be deceived? Look at the apostasy. Look at the phenomena from New Age spirits that invaded the Church that were "transformed" into "Christian" experiences. Look at the appearances of "Jesus" in meetings, even in fire at times. People are seeing "Him" in visions, and also "angels" that actually minister to people. We know the visions and promises of Benny Hinn regarding "Christ" appearing in meetings. We are already hearing of "mediumship, spiritism, witchcraft, psychic powers, and sorceries in myriad shapes and forms" being taken as Christian practices and events on which the whole agenda of the modern day "Church" hinges. Put these together with seeing "Jesus" and "angels" in the spirit in so many forms and fashions, and see the strong possibility that the stage is being set for a deceptive "Second Coming of Christ" at a time foreign to Scripture, i.e., the Pretibulaiton doctrine. Even the language of the "revival" is basic Barbara Marx Hubbard doctrine, who also believes in a Quantum Leap where man changes from Homo Sapien to Homo Universalis (corporate, universal human). If you don't believe me, look at the comparisons I have done between New Age and the "revival" at PART IV: Laughing: Deeper Realities and Part Five: The Preparation Of The Corporate Child. If Irving bought into Macdonald's vision to use the idea of it in his "secret coming" and brought that spirit into the Church, why do we believe Pretribbers when they say they won't be deceived if their is a false "rapture"? If the "revival" brought the New Age agenda into the Church - lock, stock and barrel - as described in the two files I referenced above, why do we think Pretribbers won't buy into a false New Age experience of a "rapture"? These are two major deceptions that have deeply deceived people who responded to the gospel at one time. What in heavens name do we think will stop the deception short of a fake rapture before the tribulation?

I don't know how the devil will work his deceitful "leap into the heavens" in a counterfeit coming of "Christ" as far as the Christian is concerned, but we know he will. Deceptions are rampant now, and it is not even logical to think that the adversary would ignore the premier event of our time and work his deceptions around it. I am basically saying "let the buyer beware" because there is already a false "Christ" appearing in the "Church" with signs and wonders, and some Christians have fallen and are falling for it. We've drained our energies warning people about Pretribulationism and a false revival, but to what avail? And yet we give the Pretribulationist the benefit of the doubt that he won't be deceived when the culmination of its promised rapture arrives. We call the "revival" and the apostasy the delusion God has sent, and I am believing more and more that pretribulationism is a part of that.
http://www.velocity.net/~edju/Pretrib8.htm

[b]2Tim 2:15 [u]Study[/u] to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.[/b]

The Marriage Supper (see Rev 19:7-10)(see Rev 19:11ff).

ANSWER:
The words "is come" (v.7) (most translations say "has come") could be understood to mean "is upon us" or "is immediately coming up" to take place shortly after Christ's descent. We often use the words to indicate an event that has not yet occurred, but whose time "has come."

In Revelation 6:17, for example, the men cry out that the great day of His wrath "is come" (same Greek word as in 19:7) The implication is not that the wrath has already occurred, but that it will happen very soon.

In John 17:1 Jesus uses the same Greek word ("is come"). The Greek is past tense. Yet the clear meaning is that Jesus is referring to an event that is soon to occur--not one that has already occurred.

For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? (Revelation 6:17)
These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee: (John 17:1)

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God. And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. (Revelation 19:7-21)
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The Armies in White (Rev 19) Imply Pretribulationalism ?
The armies clothed in white linen who come with Christ (Rev 19:11ff.) imply a previous rapture?

ANSWER:
These may be the deceased Christians coming with Christ to receive new bodies at the soon coming resurrection. We can read about obviously not-yet-resurrected Christians with white robes in Rev 6:9-11 (the tribulational martyrs), so why not also in Rev 19?

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. (Revelation 19:11-14)
And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. (Revelation 6:9-11)

http://www.aboundingjoy.com/posttrib-fs.html
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[b]Strange Sounds from the Pretribulational Camp[/b]
by Eli Brayley

For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle?" -1 Corinthians 14:8

It never ceases to amaze me the way the pretribulational rapture teaching can make such fantastic conclusions out of such straightforward Bible passages. As one commits to an honest and objective study of the interpretations presented by pretribulation advocates, one cannot help but notice the gross discrepancies which inescapably arise between the supposed doctrine and the inspired Scriptures. A prominent German theologian put it rather bluntly: "Pretribulationism must be refuted as a dangerous distortion of New Testament eschatology."

It is my object in this article to cover a few of the most obvious Scriptural discrepancies that arise from holding to a pretribulational position, in the hopes that those who read the following few words would consider the strangeness and error of this 19th century doctrine.

A SECOND COMING BEFORE THE SECOND COMING

"So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation." (Hebrews 9:28)

The term "Second Coming" is actually never found in the Bible, although the concept most certainly is, just like the word "trinity" is not found in the Bible but the concept is unmistakably there. Though the verse above is the only mention of the word "second" in connection with the future coming of the Lord, the belief that Jesus would once again return to earth a second time saturates the Old and New Testaments. Jesus announced to His disciples the night before He was crucified, "I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also." (John 14:3) Likewise the angel announced to them also on the Mount of Olives just after Christ ascended, that "this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." (Acts 1:11) The expectation of the apostles was that Jesus would return a second time to earth in the same manner that He ascended. This is shown by their continual unanimous testimony concerning Christ's coming:

Paul - "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." (1 Thessalonians 4:16-17)

Peter - "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?" (2 Peter 3:10-12)

John - "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." (Revelation 1:7)

Notice the apostolic expectation is simply the full and glorious appearing of the Lord Jesus and that no dual distinctions are made. The reason why there are no distinctions ever made between the "second coming" and a "secret pretribulational coming" is because no duality of "comings" existed in their doctrine. The apostles purely preached that Jesus Christ would come again, plain and simple.

On the other hand, pretribulationists, if they are to remain consistent with their theology, must believe in three comings of Christ, a notion utterly foreign to the teaching of the New Testament. Neither Jesus, nor the apostles, ever taught such a thing. To save themselves the embarrassment of such a conclusion, pretribulationists attempt to maintain the expression "the Second Coming of Christ" while at the same time believe in a coming prior to it. They cannot have it both ways. If they say the "secret rapture" is NOT a "coming", then they disqualify all the verses they have since used to support a pretribulational rapture which utilize the word "coming" (see 1 Corinthians 15:23, 1 Thessalonians 4:15, for instance). If they say then that the "secret rapture" IS a "coming", then they must believe in three comings, and therefore maintaining the expression "the Second Coming of Christ" as the final glorious appearing of Christ makes no logical sense.

A LAST TRUMPET BEFORE THE LAST TRUMPET

"Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed." (1 Corinthians 15:51-52)

One of the most popular pretribulational verses in the Bible is 1 Corinthians 15:51-52, quoted above, and yet this Scripture is in fact one of the most strongest arguments AGAINST pretribulationism!

The context of this verse is speaking about the resurrection of the dead when Jesus comes. Paul says in verse 22 and 23, "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." (Notice again that there is no distinction between a second coming and a pretribulational coming... just "His coming"). The key to interpreting when this transformation occurs (if it wasn't already obvious) is the pronouncement, "at the last trump." But what is the last trump and where is it found in Scripture?

It is not difficult to discover that the final trumpet spoken of in the Bible occurs at the very end of the age when Jesus returns to earth in great power and glory with all His holy angels. In our Lord's own words spoken to the apostles in the Olivet Discourse, it is stated: "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other." (Matthew 24:29-31) The last trumpet and the gathering of the saints are synonymous. When the trumpet is blown, it signals the reapers to go and separate the wheat from the tares. A simple comparison of Matthew 24:29-31, 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 clearly reveals the timing and nature of the last trump: it's timing is when Christ comes at the end of the great tribulation; it's nature is that it instigates the rapture, or gathering, of the saints. After the event described in Matthew 24:29-31, there is never another trumpet prophesied to come.

Therefore, if the pretribulationists are using 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 to support a rapture prior to the glorious appearing of Matthew 24:29-31, they run into an irreconcilable dilemma. How can an earlier rapture feature the last trump if there is yet another trumpet to be sounded at the end of the great tribulation? How could 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 be speaking of anything else but the final coming of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, as it's context clearly shows? Either verse 52 is truly talking about the last trumpet, or Paul was terribly mistaken.

A FIRST RESURRECTION BEFORE THE FIRST RESURRECTION

"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." (Revelation 20:4-6)

The last discrepancy we will examine involves the resurrection of the dead, which doctrine is an elementary principle according to Hebrews 6:1-2. Our text above clearly reveals that the first resurrection takes place at the end of the great tribulation when Jesus returns in glory. Christ returns to earth and destroys antichrist at the end of chapter 19 and those who are resurrected suffered greatly under the wrath of the beast. But notice also that the first resurrection is not exclusive to only those who passed through the great tribulation; no, it includes all the saints of God from all generations. John sees all those who had suffered for the Word's sake, and states in verse 6, "Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." This is written for all believers, for we are all "kings and priests unto God" because He "loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood." (Revelation 1:5-6) "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed men to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; and hast made them unto our God kings and priests: and they shall reign on the earth." (Revelation 5:9-10) The requirement for the second death to have no power over you is for you to take part in the first resurrection. To this all believers will attain by the grace of God.

Throughout the Bible there is only this one resurrection that Christians are promised to receive. We have already looked at 1 Corinthians 15:23. Jesus said in John 6:54, "Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day." He repeats this expression, "on the last day" four times in chapter 6 so that no one would be confused as to when the resurrection will occur. If we are to believe in a secret resurrection that takes place before the last day then we are not following the plain teaching of Jesus Christ, our Cornerstone.

Either John was correct in saying this is the first resurrection or the pretribulationists are right in saying it is not, and that there is a prior resurrection at the secret coming before the tribulation. What folly! Not one Scripture supports such an idea.

TRUTH OR CONJECTURE: YOU DECIDE

In this cursory article we have briefly examined how the pretribulation theory requires 1) a coming, 2) a rapture and 3) a resurrection all prior to the prescribed time clearly set forth in the Holy Scriptures. It is up to pretribulationists to decide whether or not they are going to continue attempting to squeeze the Word of God through the filter of prejudicial conjecture or simply believe the Bible for what it says. In the words of the late W.J. Erdman, the third pastor of Moody Church in Chicago who was once a pretribulationist and an editor of the Scofield Reference Bible before a "further searching of the Scriptures" convinced him otherwise: "Better the disappointment of truth than the fair but false promises of error."

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." (2 Timothy 2:15)

from: http://www.timothyministry.com/

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=category&cid=741

[b]Taken and Left - Tarkowski[/b]

MATTHEW 24:39-41: TOOK (AIRO) AND TAKEN (PARALAMBANO)

I was reading a new book titled "Of The Last Days: Listen, I tell You A Mystery" by Richard H. Perry and liked the distinction he made between the words "took" and "taken" in Matthew 24:39,40 describing the Lord coming in judgement. He wrote,

"There is another message in this passage for which we need to look to the Greek. English translations alone do not provide a clear interpretation. Two very different Greek words are translated into a form of the English verb 'to take.' In verse 39, airo is translated as 'took.' Then in verses 40 and 41, paralambano is translated as 'taken.'
"'As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took [airo] them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. Two men will be in the field; one will be taken [paralambano] and the other left. Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken [paralambano] and the other left (Matthew 24:37-41).'

"The difference between these Greek words is important.

"• Airo means 'to take away, put away, loose, and remove.' [Strong's G142]

• Paralambano means "to receive near, i.e., associate with oneself (in any familiar or intimate act or relation); receive, take unto, take with." [Strong's G3880]

"These two Greek words actually have opposite meanings! . . .

"Therefore, when the Lord returns, one man in the field will be received unto the Lord and the other will be put away from Him. One woman will be gathered unto the Lord in the air and the other will be left to the judgment and wrath of God" (Perry, pp. 72-74).

Robert Gundry in "The Church and The Tribulation" makes the same point:

"'Then there shall be two men in the field; one will be taken, and one will be left. Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken, and one will be left (Matt. 24:40, 41, paralleled in Luke 17:34, 35 with omission of the two in the field and addition of two in one bed).' . . .
"The argument is put forward that the context requires us to regard 'one will be taken' as judgmental. The preceding verses do, indeed, draw upon the Deluge: 'the flood came and took them all away' (v. 39). Notably, however, two different words appear for the action of taking, airo (v. 39) and paralambano (vv. 40, 41). The same word could easily have been employed had an exact parallel between the two takings been intended. Instead, we have the employment of another word which only two days later describes the rapture (John 14:3). The example of the Deluge illustrates not so much the judgmental character of the Parousia as its unexpectedness so far as the wicked are concerned. But granting that the context indicates judgment, we are not forced to conclude that 'one will be taken' in judgment and 'one will be left' in safety. The reverse may just as easily be understood: 'one will be taken' in rapture and 'one will be left' for judgment.''

"As mentioned, two days later the same word for taking appears in description of the rapture: 'I will come again, and receive (paralambano) you to Myself' (John 14:3). The apostles would naturally have associated the two expressions. Jesus probably so intended, else He would have drawn a distinction. The thought underlying paralambano militates against our treating the word as descriptive of judgment. The prefix para (alongside) denotes accompaniment and association (though not always of a friendly or joyous sort—cf. John 19:17) following the action of taking: "take (to oneself), take with or along" (BAG). Subsequent association and accompaniment with the one who takes or receives admirably suits the rapture but clashes with the sudden stroke of judgment at Armageddon, where a terrible, eternal separation follows. In this light, the change from airo to paralambano indicates a change in topic and connotation: the former term [airo] refers to judgment similar in unexpectedness to the Flood, the latter [paralambano] to reception of the saints at the rapture to be forever with their Lord (cf. 1 Thess. 4:17; John 14:3) (Gundry, p. 138)."

The phrase "one will be left" would support this. According to Strong's, word "left" means:

G863 From G575 and hiemi (to send; an intensive form of eimi (to go)); to send forth, in various applications: - cry, forgive, forsake, lay aside, leave, let (alone, be, go, have), omit, put (send) away, remit, suffer, yield up.
Thayer's definition of "left" makes the case even stronger that those left are left because of Christ's rejecting them:

"1) to send away
1a) to bid going away or depart
1a1) of a husband divorcing his wife
1b) to send forth, yield up, to expire
1c) to let go, let alone, let be
1c1) to disregard
1c2) to leave, not to discuss now, (a topic)
1c2a) of teachers, writers and speakers
1c3) to omit, neglect
1d) to let go, give up a debt, forgive, to remit
1e) to give up, keep no longer
2) to permit, allow, not to hinder, to give up a thing to a person
3) to leave, go way from one
3a) in order to go to another place
3b) to depart from any one
3c) to depart from one and leave him to himself so that all mutual claims are abandoned
3d) to desert wrongfully
3e) to go away leaving something behind
3f) to leave one by not taking him as a companion
3g) to leave on dying, leave behind one
3h) to leave so that what is left may remain, leave remaining
3i) abandon, leave destitute"
All of these definitions show a separation of the believer from the unbeliever at the time of the Lord's one return, not a separation of the believer from the unbeliever separated by a seven year period. The context of this parable was based on what happened to the righteous and unrighteous of Noah's time. When the flood came, it took the unbeliever away in judgement, while the righteous were lifted above the flood. There was no time period in between this event that brought separation and distinction.

Gundry's point in the first paragraph I quoted from him is important to understanding these verses in their right context. Some believe that those taken are the unbeliever and they are taken in judgement because the unrighteous in Noah's time were taken away, but the meaning of the words "took" and "taken" shows that cannot be true. As Gundry says,

"The preceding verses do, indeed, draw upon the Deluge: 'the flood came and took them all away' (v. 39). Notably, however, two different words appear for the action of taking, airo (v. 39) and paralambano (vv. 40, 41). The same word could easily have been employed had an exact parallel between the two takings been intended. Instead, we have the employment of another word which only two days later describes the rapture (John 14:3)."

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[b]ARE THERE TWO PHASES TO CHRIST'S SECOND ADVENT?[/b]
Dr. Vic Reasoner

In order to be orthodox there are several fundamental doctrines relating to eschatology which we must accept. We must believe in the literal second coming of Christ, the judgment, and eternal life in heaven or eternal death in hell. If we are not careful we will lose sight of these great truths and spend our time speculating on questions of lesser importance. Good men have not always agreed on the details, but they have agreed on these fundamental truths. We must never forget the religious leaders of Israel when Christ came the first time and how far they missed Him. Our loyalty must be to Him and not to our personal theories about His coming. It is sad that theories with little biblical support have often been made a test of faith. We are often the most dogmatic about theories we have not carefully studied. It would take a book to answer the question posed as the title. The author does not offer his conclusions as the last word on the subject, but in order to challenge our thinking.

Our Lord's disciples asked Him, "What will be the sign of your coming and the end of the age?" (Matthew 24:3). The disciples clearly put these two great event together in their thinking. In His answer Jesus does not make a distinction in time between His coming and the end or conclusion. He warns against growing cold spiritually and assures us that we will be tested. He tells us not to be overly alarmed about wars, famine, and earthquakes for this has been the pattern of history. Then He gives the sign that the disciples had asked for. "But he who stands firm to the END will be saved and this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations and then the END will come." "The final and proper coming of the Lord cannot take place until the whole world has been in the New Testament sense of the word, evangelized," writes W. B. Pope. (1) He promised no secret rapture before the end came. The sign of His return is to be the worldwide proclamation of the gospel. It is absurd to teach that this great revival will occur after the Church has been raptured, after the Holy Spirit hasdeparted, and that people left will be justified by a different method. But to the dispensationalist who divides Israel from the Church, it is necessary to dispose of the Church so that God can deal with Israel. Dr. John Walvoord, a leading dispensational spokesman admits, "It is therefore not too much to say that the rapture question is determined more by ecclesiology than eschatology." (2) In other words the theory that God has two peoples - the Church and the nation of Israel leads to the logical necessity of a second and a third coming of Christ. We are assured that Christ will come "the second time without sin unto salvation," but there is no clear teaching scripturally that He will come more than that.

Those who make a distinction between the "rapture" and the "revelation" also base their teaching on the use of three Greek words. Parousia is said to refer to the rapture and apokalupsisand ephiphaneia are said to refer to the revelation. However, in 2 Thessalonians 2:8 both parousia and ephiphaneia are used in the same verse to describe the same event. The blessed hope promised in Titus 2:13-14 would not be the rapture since the word ephiphaneia is used. This is also true of 2 Timothy 4:8.

Some also say Christ must first come FOR His saints in the rapture and then after a disputed length of time come WITH His saints in revelation. 1 Thessalonians 3:13 is a proof text since it uses the word "with." However, the Greek word used is parousia and by their definition this word refers to the rapture.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 is the most commonly used passage to support the idea of a secret rapture. It does compare His coming to a thief who comes unexpectedly, but nothing about this coming is secret. On the contrary it will be loud enough to raise the dead!

Not only do the experts disagree as to whether this rapture is to be pre-trib, mid-trib, or post-trib, but we also have partial rapturists who hold to several raptures. Only those members of their elect group will miss the tribulation period.

After surveying the major passages used to prove two phases to Christ's return, George Eldon Ladd summarized his findings:

The vocabulary used of our Lord's return leads no support for the idea of two coming of Christ or of two aspects of his coming. On the contrary it substantiates the view that the return of Christ will be a single, indivisible, glorious event. (3)
Christ declared that "the wheat and the tares are to remain together in the field until the harvest" or end of the age. The secret rapture theory teaches that all the wheat is removed and the tares left standing before the end. (4)

In addition to the weak biblical basis for the doctrine of two separate comings of Christ, it is interesting to consider the historical background of the theory. Dave MacPherson has written more than one book on the historical origin of this theory and concludes that all Christian before 1830 believed in a single unified coming of Christ. He says the secret rapture was so secret it was never heard of before a follower of Edward Irving prophesied it through the "gift of tongues." (5) In Background to Dispensationalism we read:

Even dispensationalists admit the late development of this doctrine. Walvoord admits, "This teaching was espoused of Darby and the Plymouth Brethren and popularized by the famous Scofield Bible." Ironside, in writing about the Powerscourt Prophetic conferences (of which Darby was the leader) states, "It was in these meetings that the precious truth of the rapture of the Church was brought to light. (6)
It was Edward Irving that first became convinced that the world was not moving toward better conditions, but worse. He believed that directly before man there lay a period of terrible suffering. By the year 1824 he concluded that almost all biblical prophecies had been fulfilled and the coming of the Lord could not be over a few years away. Finally his movement set the date of June 27, 1835. (7)

It was in 1830 that Margaret MacDonald, a follower of Irving, received her revelation. Darby tells about his visit to the MacDonald home in his book, The Irrationalism of Infidelity. (8) He too then began teaching a pre-trib rapture.

[b]WHEN IS JESUS COMING AGAIN,
ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES?[/b] by Chaplain Billy

There has been much confusion over the past years on this question. Is there an answer? Must we all continue to guess? Aside from our relationship with Jesus Christ, this is perhaps the most important question we could ask today, When is Jesus returning?

One minister says one thing, another, something else. There are theories, doctrines, and teachings galore. Are they all, right? Which Preacher, or, denomination is telling the truth? They all, say they are! While looking at the March 28th 2000 issue, of the "Pentecostal Evangel" an Assembly of God publication, I was almost awestruck at the title of The conversation with Tim LaHaye, on page 6. Titled:

LAHAYE'S PROPHECY-BASED FICTION

Quite a title for an interview, especially in the Assembly magazine. As I read the article about three times, I thought, A very appropriate name for the "secret rapture" that is supposed to take place at any second. "Prophecy-based fiction." Our Brother, had also written another rapture thriller, called "Left Behind." LaHaye, has written, "Tribulation Force" "Soul Harvest" "Apollyon, and Assassins." As Brother LaHaye was being interviewed, he was asked this question: Evangel: Where did the idea for the "Left behind series" originate? LaHaye: While I was on an airplane flight in the 1980s, I got the idea for a novel about the Rapture. The idea percolated for years. I needed a novelist. My agent put me in touch with Jerry Jenkins, whose more than one hundred books, include, biographies of Hank Aaron, Meadowlark, Lemon, Nolan Ryan, and Billy Graham. I gave Jerry the outline of the scripture for each book, and he hangs the story on the outline. Evangel: The books have stayed on Christian best seller charts, and have climbed to the tops of lists kept by the New York times, USA today, Wall Street Journal etc. Why do you think this series has been so successful? LaHaye: Left behind is the first fictional portrait of events that is true to the literal interpretation of Bible prophecy. They are written for anyone who loves gripping fiction! On page 7, we have the scenario, of "people being raptured, or, snatched away on an Airplane," and, the explanation of the "Blessed Hope" at the bottom of the page, which states: The "Left behind series," is a fictional account of events after the rapture of the Church.

WHAT'S THE POINT?

The point being dear ones, that this "fictional book" along with thousands of videos, and movies, is being received by the majority of Christians today as the TRUTH, not fiction! The secret "snatching away" of the Christians, while all the world suffers untold persecution under the anti-god, and, anti-Christ system, is a teaching as false and full of fiction, as the LEFT BEHIND SERIES of our dear Brother, LaHaye. Incidentally, this "Left Behind" will be at the movies in the near future, further confusing Millions of Christians who will not study their Bible for themselves.
I am going to show you, "according to the scriptures" when our Lord is going to return. He will return THEN, and not before. One of the reasons these "gripping fiction" books, and films are so "hazardous" is, they are exactly as LaHaye describes them: FICTION! I fear for the poor misguided souls, who will not read their Bible today, but trust these "off the wall movies" like, "Omega Code," (I read the entire book) which is as fictitious as a three dollar bill. Is it any wonder, Paul Crouch of TBN, is proclaiming "Hollywood's" great approval of "The Omega Code"? For it is as phony as Hollywood itself! I could name numerous Ministries, who have made absolutely "millions" of dollars, on these phony books, and videos. Good plots, and fictitious stories, do NOT THE TRUTH MAKE! A little leaven, leaveneth the whole lump! A partial truth, is more dangerous than a complete lie!

BUY YOUR VIDEO TODAY!

We are told by leading TV Ministers, that when the "Church is raptured" if, you or, a loved one do not make the rapture, because of backsliding, luke warmness, or refusing Christ as Savior, just pop in one of the latest "Left Behind" videos, and, then be true to God, don't take the mark of the beast, be faithful until death, accept the persecution coming, and then you will be saved! Beloved, are we so blind? Can a man, or woman, who will not attempt to live for Christ now, with no persecution, no trials, no mark of the beast, or, any pressure from any quarter, still have all the strength and courage, to face the persecution of the anti-Christ? Many can't make it to Church if it rains, they are to stubborn to give their heart to God now, how in the name of Heaven, can they (all at once) after watching Hagee's, Van Impes, and, other pre-trib rapture videos, suddenly be the giants of faith, to go through the kind of tribulation that is coming upon this whole world? Dear one I say this to you, and, to your loved ones: If you won't, or can't, live for Christ now, you sure won't stand in the time of persecution, regardless of all of your "The Day After" videos. Many of these Ministers know, that these Videos are worthless, but they keep churning them out, as long as the gullable Christians keep buying them. The sleeping giant (The Church) is still looking for an easy out, and, someone who will lie to them and tell them what they want to hear. Some of the stories being pushed by TV Evangelist today, put "Star Trek" to shame. Satan, wants you to believe, that IF you should miss the "first coming of Christ" just wait for the second! The devil is smarter than most Christians in that respect. If he can have some "well meaning minister," preach the doctrine of the second pickup, or, the second return of Christ, (after the secret rapture) he will have millions in his grasp. Satan, only wants to fool you ONCE! The next time, it is his move!
Why is the return of Christ so important? For many reasons, but one reason is, if you know what to expect, you know what to prepare for. One of the false teachings by the Catholic Church, is the doctrine of Purgatory. The doctrine of Purgatory, is the doctrine of the second chance. Another false teaching is: Jesus, is coming in the clouds, to rapture all of His children, just before the anti-Christ steps on the scene! We will then all be in Heaven, while every one else will be going through tribulation on earth. The scripture used to support this teaching is: "We are not appointed to wrath"! The tribulation, is not the wrath of God, but the wrath of the anti-Christ. He goes all out, to try and destroy the true Church for the last time. More about this later. God, is behind the WRATH of God, but, it is two distinct happenings, the WRATH of God, and, the tribulation.

LISTEN UP CHRISTIANS!

Christian friend pay close attention: There have been more persecutions, and more martyrs, IN THIS CENTURY, (than in all the years since Christ's returned to the Father)! Fourteen hundred prisons in China alone, (and growing) full of believers! Pastors, Christians in home churches, (Bible smugglers), and any other type of Christianity. It is not like Christian Television tells us! The Christian, is on the open market in many parts of Africa, especially in the Sudan! Churches are being burned, Pastors slaughtered, Christians are being killed, and the carnage goes on and on. In Indonesia, every week, Christians are being killed, and Churches burned, NOW, RIGHT NOW! As supposedly intelligent, and as Christians, (why do you think in many parts of the world today, such as India, Pakistan, Arabia, and many, many more countries), that we Christians in America will escape persecution?
Do you think in Rawanda, Africa, where they had almost total genocide, as men, women and children were decapitated, and slaughtered beyond human description, do you think, that they believe a tribulation is coming in the future? In Indonesia, Christians are killed daily. With the hundreds of thousands loosing their lives in other parts of the world for Christ, do you think that they might believe that: Tribulation is coming in the future?

CAN WE BE HONEST?

Do you think God has two Bibles? One for THEM, and one for US! In our bible it reads: That before anything bad happens to us, God will "rapture us" away to Heaven, while the rest of the World, goes through absolute Hell on earth! Is that what it says Christian? Tel-evangelists, are robbing many people blind, as well as many Pastors, by telling the people WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR, instead of what the Word of God teaches, and declares! Although I am white, God has assured me that He cares for me no more, than the Ethiopian of Phillips day. When Jesus said: Go into all the world and preach the gospel, Jesus was not just referring to the good old USA, because, He was not IN the good old USA. You, and I, will have the same future problems, as our Brothers and Sisters across the waters who are suffering for their faith right now. How did this "secret rapture" get started in the first place? Does the Bible teach such a doctrine? If so, WHERE? We will attempt to piece together this tangled web of misquotations, so it will make some sense. Let us begin, in the much preached, and talked about passage of scripture in the Bible, MATTHEW 24.

GODS WORD!

Matthew 24:3 and as He, (that is Jesus) sat upon the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately saying, tell us, WHEN shall these things be? ….. and, WHAT shall be the SIGN of thy coming, AND the end of the world?
The disciples asked, three distinct questions, we will then look at each one to see how Jesus answered them. If we will then be honest with ourselves, we can see the absurdity today of this teaching of the "secret rapture" theory! The disciples asked simple questions, and received simple answers. Jesus first stated, before answering their questions directly. TAKE HEED THAT NO MAN DECEIVE YOU. If it were not possible to be deceived on this all important issue, Jesus would not have said so!

DECEPTION!

Jesus said: many shall come in my name, AND SHALL DECEIVE MANY! Not just a few, but MANY! They are doing it today on television beyond belief. And, to supposedly Bible believing Christians! Jesus did not want his disciples to be deceived, as to His return! We must not misinterpet the teaching on the Second coming of Christ. I have been in Churches lately, where the prophecies come forth like rain! One Pastor gave this prophecy often, in the last few months: I'M COMING SOON! I'M COMING SOON, the Pastor would say, with head bowed low in apparent great reverance. Assuming that it was Jesus, that was (supposed to be speaking), through the Pastor, there was this great scriptural problem to deal with. Jesus said in Mark 13: 32 that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in Heaven, NEITHER THE SON, but the Father.
So, it could not have been Jesus speaking, for He said: The SON DIDN'T EVEN KNOW OF HIS RETURN! Why did he prophecy? It certainly wasn't Jesus, or, the Holy Spirit, since the Spirit and the Word agree. Nor was it God! Take heed, let no man deceive you, Jesus said so! In this Church, the Pastor was never challenged, (although he was going against the very teaching of Jesus Himself). A Pastor, that will prophecy lies, will do anything else to build his, or, her kingdom! Our Churches are going on a "prophecy rampage." It is sad to say, but most of the prophecy I hear from the Pulpit today, is complete nonsense. Can man deceive? You bet he can. File this message away somewhere, and read it again, and again. It is that important! Beloved, this is more than just some doctrine that we can agree, or, disagree with. A momentous situation is about to break on this old world, and you need to be informed of every thing that Jesus said would take place (before His return)!

TELL US!

Matt. 24:6 …and ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: See that ye be not troubled: For all these things must come to pass, but, the end is not yet. One of the questions asked Jesus was: when is the end of the world? Jesus didn't say: Men, you have it all wrong, all you need to be concerned about, is the "rapture," for you certainly won't be here near the end of the world! (7) and Nation shall rise against Nation, and Kingdom against Kingdom, and there shall be famines and pestilences, and earth quakes in divers places. (8) All these are the beginnings of sorrows. Just the beginning friend! Sorrow, is so rampant in our land today, I hesitate to mention it. The world around us, is as it were in it's death throes. Noah's day, was like a picnic in comparison. Even the, God said: The world was filled with violence! What would He say today?

TROUBLED TIMES!

Russia, has continued her war games. Our Leadership (if you call it that) is at an all time low. Satan is setting America up! We have little, or, no defenses. Our President has decided (on his own) that we will first absorb a first strike nuclear attack, before we retaliate! God help such total insanity! Reader's Digest, and some of our News Stations, tell us that we are more vulnerable now from an attack from the enemy, than anytime in the last 25 years! Many of our Pulpits, which should be "flaming torches," are frozen zombies. Telling the congregation, don't worry, you are about to be raptured! READ MY LIPS PASTOR!
God Almighty, is going to hold you responsible, for your misleading of God's people! Sleep on my little ones, give those tithes, bring them in to the "storehouse." Listen to Pastor, I wouldn't tell you wrong. Would I? One Radio Minister in Texas, describes it like this: There will be a Nuclear war he said, and, just as the Missiles hit the earth, THE CHURCH IS RAPTURED! I must say, I haven't read anything that even remotely resembles such a scripture.

THE DAKE BIBLE!

Dake, states, that in Matthew 24: 9-14, that these scriptures deal only with Israel. Look closely now: When they deliver you up to be afflicted, and kill you, and you are hated of all nations (10) And many shall be offended and betray one another (11)many false prophets shall rise and deceive many, (is this only Israel?) (12) and, because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. (is this only Israel?) Dear one, when 250.000 Christians are killed each year, (and it is climbing), is this only Israel? I have heard hundreds of times thundered from the pulpit, (because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold)? Is this only Israel? If it is, why are we always quoting it as the present day Church? You can't have it both ways. Many Preachers are telling the flock, that "they must endure until the end." Why should we endure until the end, WHEN WE WON'T BE HERE ANYWAY? Why should we be faithful till death, if we won't be here to die? In most of the 24th Chapter of Matthew, Dake inter-changes Israel with the Church at will. If it's a bad situation It is Israel! If it's a rapture, It is the Church! VERY CONVENIENT! (14) And the gospel of the Kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations, and then shall the end come. Does ALL the world, mean only Israel? If so, why are we preaching today? We will try one more of Dake's explanations. Watch closely, how Dake handles this. The next 5 verses are called:

THE SECOND ADVENT!

The Second coming of Christ! He is absolutely correct in saying so, but, we must remember, that somewhere, between verse 3 and 21, Some how, some way, and some place, a rapture took place! How, or where, they do not know, but as one good Baptist told me: You have to read between the lines! I said: That is the reason the (lines) are there, there is nothing between them! How could you take a doctrine as important as the coming of Christ, and just say: Well, He came somewhere, between verse 3 and verse 21? It is almost unbelievable, that the doctrine of the "silent, secret, snatching away Rapture" is taught today, and you can't even find it? Many Ministers, use verse 27, for their rapture. What does it say? As the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. Beloved, that says absolutely nothing, about a "secret rapture," it only states that when He does return, He will return swiftly! We are about to see for the first time clearly, when JESUS IS COMING BACK! Let us read verse 29. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man in Heaven: And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of Heaven with power and great glory.

IS IT NOT PLAIN?

The Disciple's, asked (3) questions. Here, two are answered if you accept the Word of God! What is the sign of your coming, and of the end of the world? Jesus said: (29) immediately after the tribulation of those days ……. (30) And then shall appear the sign of the Son of Man from Heaven: And then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn. And they shall see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Dear child of God, you need not be a bible scholar, a bible teacher, or Preacher, to understand what Jesus was saying. He said: He would return "in the clouds of Heaven" just like your Pastor teaches, with the exception of the truth that Jesus states: I will come immediately after the tribulation of those days.. To teach other wise, is to make Jesus a liar. When are you coming back Jesus, the disciples asked? He just told them! He told you also, if you will accept His Word over the teachings of man, and denominations today. I must say, ALL THE TRIBES OF THE EARTH, do not just pertain to Israel! Jesus said also: immediately after the tribulation, you will also see the sign of the Son of man, following the shocking display of the stars, moon and Sun. Some teach, this pertains to Israel only. If so, why do we teach here in America, that He is coming back in the clouds? I will tell you this my friends, with all the love I can: You will not leave this earth by a rapture, UNTIL AFTER THE TRIBULATION. You may go by the grave, old age, nuclear blast, war, or a hundred other ways, but you will not be raptured into the Heavens on the clouds, until you ride the same clouds Jesus spoke of, and that one comes only, AFTER the tribulation, not before! If your church, or denomination teaches otherwise, it is false! And you won't find one Scripture to back up your theory. Some Ministers tell their flock: There are some folks that want to go through a tribulation! Friend, I haven't found anyone yet! A man would have to be a fool, to WANT to go through a tribulation. I sure don't want to. But what I want, and what the Word of God says, is many times "poles" apart. You will never hear anyone, that believes in a Post-trib return of Christ, that wants to go through a tribulation. I want to settle that thought right now!

MAY I ASK A QUESTION?

If all power was given to Jesus by the Father, as (Jesus said it had been given), I have all power in Heaven and, in earth Jesus said ……. May I ask, why, does Jesus have to sneak back to this earth, (morning, noon, or night as we sing) and steal away His children from the devil? May I ask another question? If He is going to sneak back with a quiet rapture, why in the name of Heaven, is He going to return in 1st thess. 4:16 with a Shout, the voice of an Archangel, and the trump of God? If you believe this is a silent rapture, I would like to sell you some "ocean front property" here in West Virginia. Even if there were a secret rapture, what would be the purpose? There are many good books on the market today, that tells of the origin of the "rapture teaching" but I will not speak of them at this time. I want to mention something also that is very important, especially to those of you WHO ARE NOT MINISTERS! Remember, child of God, in the church where you go, there are bylaws, rules, and teachings of that particular organization, should it be the Church of God, the Assemblies of God, and many others. THEY MUST STICK STEADFAST TO THEIR BYLAWS, AND THEIR TEACHINGS! To not do so, they say, they would not be in "unity." For a Minister to deviate in any of these main doctrines, is cause to loose their ministerial license immediately! I have talked to Ministers in both of the groups I have just mentioned, some have told me: Brother, I don't believe this secret rapture teaching, but, if I say anything, I am out of the organization in a hurry! Some Ministers, have been in the organization's for years, and, they wait for their pension. So the rest of their ministerial life, they continue to teach a lie, or, repress what they really believe to be the truth. That is the power and Organization can hold on a minister. So, I must teach what the organizations books say teach, Ministers tell me.

WHEN IS HE RETURNING?

Jesus said in verse 33. When ye see all these things, know that it is near, even at the door. What was He talking about? He was saying, that when the signs of versed (29) and (30) take place, that His coming was near. Notice again: This takes place AFTER the tribulation. Then, Jesus went on to give another example of the times in which we live today. He told His disciples in (33) when ye shall see … (it is rather obvious that the disciples will not see these things come to pass), but our generation will! If we would not be here, how could we see anything? There is a major misunderstanding among many ministers, on verse (37). Here is another example of teaching what you want to teach, and leaving the rest alone. In this passage of scripture, we are told by modern day preachers, of the many millions getting saved after the rapture. Here is how they handle it: Just as it was in the days of No'e, so shall it be in the coming of the Son of Man. They say: We are living in the days of No'e, (or Noah) but they don't tell you all that happened in the days of Noah! Right now, things are all set for the rapture, they teach. ‘Let's see what the Bible really says! What Jesus said would take place, is THE EXACT OPPOSITE OF WHAT IS BEING TAUGHT TODAY! But as the days of No'e were, so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. (38) for as the days that were before the flood they were eating drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that No'e entered the ark, (39) and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away: So shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. Now let us do a little study: What did Jesus really say?

WHAT REALLY HAPPENED IN NOAH'S DAY?

Jesus said: If I may paraphrase a little. It will be just like the days of Noah, when I return. They were eating drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that No'e entered into the ark, and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of Man be. Can you see this yet friend? NO ONE WAS SAVED like the preachers are teaching today! My what a contradiction of the Word! Jesus said: IT TOOK THEM ALL AWAY! If it took them ALL away, who was left to get saved? Where will you're Van Impe videos be then? These Video's, are a curse on our generation, giving people second hope, on a total impossibility. Someone is going to be responsible "big time" for all the finance made on these poor lost souls. Notice also; it wasn't seven years after the rapture took place, Jesus said: THE SAME DAY NO'E ENTERED THE ARK, THE FLOOD CAME AND TOOK THEM ALL AWAY. REMEMBER THAT PREACHER, THE NEXT TIME YOU ARE EXPOUNDING THE WORD!
To late for the videos then, to late for the cassettes from your favorite preacher. If you have been reading God's Word, you can be prepared for the days ahead. Let me say this. You don't have to be "raptured" to be saved! God can save you, (if that is His plan), "in" your problem, He does not have to deliver you from it. Daniel was not saved "from" the Lions den, he was saved in it! The three Hebrew children, were not saved "from" the fiery furnace, God saved them "while still in it" to show His power! Noah was not saved from the flood, he was saved while in it! Dear friend, the same water that destroyed the world, kept Noah afloat, and safe!

WHAT DOES LUKE SAY?

Luke 18:28 likewise also as it was in the days of Lot, they did eat, they drank, they bought they sold, they planted, they builded, (29) but the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from Heaven, and destroyed them all. (30) even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of Man is revealed. If we will remember who is teaching here, It is the Son Of God. Jesus said again: THAT THE SAME DAY, that Lot came out of Sodom, fire came down from Heaven and destroyed them all. Jesus said: it would be like that again when He comes. Just like the days of the Sodomites, (and we are there)! If it is like that time, WHO GETS SAVED? Who, watches the videos, to tell them what to do "the day after"? It will be to late to play their LEFT BEHIND tape by Tim LaHaye. It will be burned up. Friend, this is no fun and games, your soul is at stake, who do you believe, the Word of God, or your favorite TV Evangelist? For the many of you who go by the teachings of your Church, and, who lean heavy on the DAKE ANNOTATED BIBLE, let us see how Rev. Dake handles this, in Luke 21:36 On page 86 in your Dake Bible Rev. Dake tells us how to interpet the Bible: When it is a literal saying, it should be taken literally. Dake, first makes (his own prediction) at the heading of the verse, by stating: Promise of a rapture before the second advent. Notice that it is Brother Dake's heading. (36) Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man. Dakes main purpose for his own heading is: to escape all these things! The things of Matthew 24 Mark 13th Chapter, and, Luke 21: ch. They all have the same context.

HOW DO WE ESCAPE?

It is very important to notice, Dakes own statement in the right column of verse 36. Dake says: This is the "first" plain reference in "all the scripture", to the rapture! Notice! Dake himself states: THAT THIS IS THE FIRST PLAIN REFERENCE, IN ALL THE SCRIPTURE, TO A RAPTURE. He did not say (one more), but, "the first" plain reference. How they were to escape, if they met conditions was: To stand before the Son of Man! Now Dake ask's this question: How could all worthy ones go before Him, (if not by rapture), as stated in John 4:1-3 Friends, the facts is, Jesus is not saying anything about a rapture, He is simply stating, that: In His Fathers house are many mansions, and. He will return again! To stretch the point beyond that, as some secret rapture, is implying something that the scripture does not say. Dake says also: 1st Thess. 4: 13-18 pertains to the rapture. We mentioned before, that this is an impossible "silent secret rapture" using these scriptures, due to the Lord shout, the voice of Archangel, and the blowing of the trumpet. SECRET RAPTURE? I think not. Remember, anytime you ask your own questions, and give your own answers, you will ALWAYS get the desired answer. Could I add something? Since the "secret rapture teaching" is so prevelant today, why did Jesus try to hide it somewhere in His Word? Why did He try to keep it secret? He didn't, He told us clearly when He would return again! Immediately "after the tribulation of those days," and not before!

BELOVED, PAY ATTENTION!

Dear child of God, on the false teaching on the "secret rapture," it is so important for you to know the truth! It is a teaching of the "second chance." The devil knows, that if you miss the second coming of Christ, that He is NOT coming back again like all the Evangelists are telling you. If you miss the Next coming of Christ, there will BE NO MORE RETURNS! You will be lost for all eternity, regardless of what any Minister tells you. I have already shown you, that NO ONE, was saved in Noah's time, once he went into the ark. Likewise, NO ONE was saved in Lot's time, the day he left Sodom, the rest were destroyed. Jesus said, it would be the same way when He returns, Do you believe that? Beloved, I have studied the Coming of Christ, and the rapture teaching, for a good 28 years. I didn't just hear about it yesterday. Through God's mercy, I found out what I was being taught, was as false as a "snow storm" in July, on this "secret rapture" theory. It is taught today by some very large Ministries, and, denominations, that the Lord is going to return "in phases"! One Church of God, (Cleveland Tenn.) District Overseer, in Illinois, told me that Jesus is actually coming back 4 times. In phases he said. I said: The bible teaches no such thing as a return in phases! Jesus said: He would return again. He didn't say, He would return again, again, and again.

HALF SCRIPTURES USED!

Preachers make much of the "falling away" today, but they only read part of the scripture! In the book of 2nd Thessalonians, 2:1-4 Now we beseech you brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him, (2) That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as the day of Christ is at hand. (3) Let no man deceive you by any mans; (AS MANY ARE DOING TODAY) emphasis mine, for that day shall not come, except there be a falling away first …… I left of reading that for a purpose. That is where most preachers stop reading. Why? Because the rest of the verse, tears down their rapture teaching, Many preachers like to teach, that the Church is raptured BEFORE the anti-Christ comes on the scene. But, that is a false teaching! Preacher, read all of the verse to your flock! Shall we continue with the rest of the verse now? And that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; (4) Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. My friends, these scriptures all go together. You will not get away from the anti-Christ, unless God sees fit to take you home sooner. Even now, he is working full time, in the United States Of America among our ungodly leadership today! You hear nothing from the pulpits today on the anti-Christ, because it completely destroys the teachings of the church being raptured before he appears. You might ask about now, why don't our spiritual leaders tell us these things? There are many reasons, but here are a few. (1) If it is in their denominational minutes, or, bylaws, THEY MUST TEACH IT, or get fired from their Pastorate, and that is the truth! (2) Some ministers, could care less. They don't read the Word of God, so, they just teach what they hear the next preacher preach, be it right, or wrong! (3) The "secret rapture teaching" IS A MONEY MAKER! Not many people in America, want the real truth! So, the preacher gives them what they want, and, he gets what he wants, and they are both happy.

ANOTHER IMPOSSIBLE RAPTURE SCRIPTURE!

While continuing to talk to my District Overseer friend, I asked him: Do you want to make the first resurrection? He said: Of course! I said let me hear you clearly now, you do want to make the "first resurrection" correct? He again said: Yes! I said my dear Brother, do you know who made it in the first resurrection? I said lets read the Bible and see. I then showed him Revelation, Ch. 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgement was given unto them; and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the Word of God, and which had not worshipped the best, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands, and they lived a reigned with Christ a thousand years. (5) but the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. THIS IS THE FIRST RESURRECTION. (6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in THE FIRST RESURRECTION, on such the second death hath no power. but they shall be priests of God, and of Christ and shall reign with Him a thousand years. I said Brother, if these tribulation Saints made it in the FIRST RESURRECTION, which was stated "twice," how can there be another resurrection, before the FIRST RESURRECTION? Nothing, comes before the first, or, it wouldn't be the first! The only way to make the first resurrection, was to do the same thing the tribulation Saints did, refuse the mark, refuse to worship the Image, or the beast. Then, and only then, do you qualify. I want to share another scripture with you. In the book of John. Lazarus had been dead for 4 days. When Jesus came on the scene, in 11th Ch., V. (23). Jesus saith to her, thy Brother shall rise again. (24) Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again, at the resurrection at the last day. Would he not be raised dear friend, at the "same resurrection" as with the tribulation saints? Remember, they made it in the FIRST RESURRECTION! Dear Christian, try as you may, and believe what you want, the days ahead will be trying days for ALL OF US! None of us will be exempt from what lies ahead. We need to pray, and hold each other up in prayer, rather than to try to believe, and hide behind some doctrine that is not true . Believing it will not make it so!

ANOTHER BLOOPER!

In the Dake Annotated Bible, Dake teaches that in Rev. Ch.4:1 He sees the raptured Saints. Incidently, the Dake Bible, is to the Pentecostal, Full Gospel groups, as, the C.I. Scoffield Bible, is to many of the Baptist groups. If Dake said it, THAT IS GOSPEL! Keep in remembrance , that if you ask yourself the question, You get the answer you desire. After telling John about the 7 churches in Chapter 3, he continues in Chapter 4:1.
After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in Heaven: and the first voice which I heard, was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said , come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter (I have just finished watching Jac van Impe Presents) the date being 7-6-2000. Jack gives his big smile and says: I can't wait until I hear Christ say: Come up hither Rev. 4:1, Just as Dake is teaching here. Dake, has this as HIS heading, at the beginning of Ch. 4. THE THINGS WHICH SHALL BE HEREAFTER, AFTER THE CHURCHES, OR, AFTER THE RAPTURE. (4:1 - 22:5)

As Dake speaks of the throne room in V (4) and round about the throne were four and twenty elders, sitting clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crown's of gold. On the left column of the Dake Bible, and, on page 289 (since all Dake bibles are the same), under (a) Dake states: that the word "elders" IS PROOF that they represent the "raptured Saints," or, THE CHURCH. He further states in the same column.

(1) Elder, is never used of angels.
(2) They are distinguished from the Angels.
(3) They have crowns and thrones, which were promised to redeemed men.
(4) They wear white raiment, which is used only of Christ and the saints.
(5) It is clear from 1:1 5: 5-7 7: 13-15; 19; 10:22 8-9, that one of these elders is the person showing John the Revelation, and, that he is a redeemed man.

Dake states: that if one of them is a man, then all 24 are men. Since they are redeemed men and in Heaven on thrones all through the time of the fulfillment of Rev. 4-22 THEN THEY MUST HAVE BEEN RAPTURED BEFORE THAT! I suppose that Rev. Dake would think someone would ask the question: Why do you pick out 24 Elders? So, this is his answer.

WHY 24 ELDERS?

Dake says, the answer is not stated! But 2 things are clear, he states.
(1) The whole priesthood of old, was represented by 24 elders!
(2) The names of the twelve tribes of Israel, and the twelve Apostles, are written on the holy city New Jerusalem (21-24).

Are the 24 Elders, the Church? You decide, I have giving you irrefutable proof, of the "first resurrection" and, many other scriptures that were not even completely read.

I have written this message, to show you to what great lengths many will go, to either preserve their special doctrine, or, to perpetuate a new one. One of the most powerful Scriptures in the Word of God, is found in: Rev. 1:3. BLESSED IS HE THAT READETH, AND, THEY THAT HEAR THE WORDS OF THIS PROPHECY, AND KEEP THOSE THINGS THAT ARE WRITTEN THEREIN: FOR THE TIME IS AT HAND. Do you mean to tell me friend, that with this great admonition from the very Son of God Himself, that the majority of this great book is useless, (since the Church is seen in the 4th chapter). If we are raptured, as Dake states, why be concerned about any of the other chapters, especially, since we supposedly will be in Heaven looking down on this world in tribulation? HOW MUCH OF THIS PROPHECY DID JESUS SAY TO KEEP, IN VERSE THREE? I believe, that when Jesus said: TO KEEP THOSE THINGS THAT ARE WRITTEN THEREIN, that He meant all of it! Why, and how, could we READ, HEAR, AND KEEP those things that are written therein, IF WE WON'T BE HERE? Jesus, has placed 18 chapters in Revelation, that is of absolutely no concern to Christians, if what Dake teaches is true! All the important information that God wants you and I to know, is contained within the TWENTY TWO CHAPTERS OF REVELATION! I shudder to think, that a minister of the gospel, (whoever they may be) would try to deceive, (on purpose, or ignorantly) anyone on the ONLY BOOK IN THE BIBLE, THAT GOD HAS PROMISED A BLESSING, IF WE WILL HEAR, READ, AND KEEP IT!

Why, would God in Rev. chapter 2 & 3 warn the Church, REPEATEDLY, they must live an "overcoming life if the Church is not going to be here? Such reasoning is senseless. Jack van Impe, LaLonde, Hal Lindsay, and a host of others, may have "blood dripping from their hands" when the folks that are supposed to be "sneaked away" are not "sneaked away," in one of the biggest frauds ever perpetrated on the Church. In her famous book, Tramp for the Lord, Corrie Tim Boom had these scathing remarks to make, on this teaching of "the secret rapture." She stated: One of the biggest lies ever perpetrated on the Church is: the doctrine of THE SECRET RAPTURE. Corrie stated, having been in Germany's prison death camps, that thousands of Christians put up no resistance, or, tried to get away from the death squads, because their Pastor had told them: (Just like today), DON'T WORRY, YOU WILL BE RAPTURED BEFORE ANYTHING HAPPENS TO YOU! Friend, nearly 6 million people were not raptured, as they marched them off into the ovens, of Dachau, Triblinka, Auswhitz, and more. I don't know how many were Christians, but, the Christians believed they would be saved, (because their Pastor told them so). Listen to me friend! If your Pastor tells you to take a mark, in your forehead, or hand, because, he tells you: This can't be the mark of the beast, because Jesus has not come yet. Jesus will rapture you, before you have to take the mark. WILL YOU TAKE IT? This is a warning! Your very soul is at stake!

MY LAST PROOF FOR THE PENTECOSTALS!

Having been a Pentecostal for nearly 32 years now, I know of what I speak. I have heard three times as many "prophecies" as there are books in the Bible. I have heard warning prophecies, blessing prophecies, guidance prophecies, personal prophecies, etc. We Pentecostals are a tough breed. We don't like for anyone to show us where we might be wrong. But what I share with you in this last portion of the message, IS TRUE, and, it can be taken, or left, it's up to you.
One night in Chicago, after a good "Church of God" service, I was invited to the Pastors house for a meal. Knowing how I believed about the false rapture teaching, he told me this: Brother Bill, I can't see how you could not believe in a rapture at any moment! I smiled, and then asked: Brother, was that prophecy you gave tonight of the Lord? Of course it was, he stated. I said: do you mean to tell me then, that under the anointing of the Holy Spirit, you were led to give that prophecy? Again he replied in the affirmative. I said, if that being the case, I don't see how Jesus could possibly come back tonight! You prophecied to the whole Church, that God was going to bless the Church, that the Church was going to grow, I said: How can God bless the Church, and the Church begin to grow, if Jesus could come tonight? He looked at me and said: I hadn't thought about that! I said, you need to think about it, the next time you feel a prophecy coming on. Probably ninety percent of the prophecies given today in Churches, are not of the Lord. They are simply of the flesh.

THE T.B.N. NETWORK!

In the years I have watched the TBN Network, I have heard Paul crouch, speak of waiting for the "rapture" many times. One night, or, on several nights, I heard the Evangelist who was speaking that night on Praise The Lord, call Paul over and gave him a prophecy, that went something like this!
'Paul, God has called you for a work, and He is not through with you yet. There are many things that you must do, and God is going to be with you. He will protect you, and supply what is needed for His work. God is not only going to bless you, but your children, and your grand children!"
I have heard all kinds of prophecies on TBN, but my point is: If this is a real Prophecy, and I do not know if it is, or isn't, If God said those things through a prophecy, (word of knowledge) what ever, HOW IS IT POSSIBLE, FOR JESUS TO COME BACK AT ANY MOMENT, UNTIL THOSE THINGS BE FULFILLED? HOW IS IT POSSIBLE, FOR GOD TO BLESS PAUL'S CHILDREN, AND GRANDCHILDREN, WHEN HE COULD COME AT ANY MOMENT? Those prophecies, and thousands more that are being given in Churches each week, how can they be fulfilled, if the Lord can come back at any moment? The answer is simple: They can't! As I said: THIS IS FOR THE PENTECOSTALS! Many other groups do not believe in the gifts of the Spirit, so this is not for you. How can God say, He is going to do one thing, and then send His Son back to earth any second? It is an impossibility! Will there be a "any moment rapture?" The question is up to you! You may believe what you wish, but only what the Bible teaches will come to pass!
I close with this. If you are not praying, giving, and working in the "Harvest Fields" for Christ, YOU DON'T BELIEVE HE IS COMING EITHER, no matter what your Church doctrine teaches! If you believe there is a literal Hell, where men, women, boys, and girls go that do not know the forgiveness of sins, and you are not making some attempt to warn them, YOU don't believe He is coming back either, regardless of your Church teachings.

WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE?

My job is finished with this message. I am sure it could have been written in a more scholarly manner, and with much more insight, (For there are volumes of information on this, but I have shared with you not only from my heart, (but from the Word of God) what Jesus had to say about His return. I beg you, to read your Bible, and believe what He says, and to forget other teaching's of man! It is only the Word of God, that will stand, not our man made doctrines! Again I ask you. WHAT DO YOU BELIEVE? I pray the God of Heaven, will somehow take the words of this message, and cause you to search the scriptures yourself, (to see if these things be so). If you DO believe, He is coming at any moment, ARE YOU READY?
Are you working for him? Child of God, the days ahead are indeed going to be dark. Know for yourself what the Bible says about His coming. The enemy is preparing an attack on our Nation, even as you read this. China, and Russia, hate the United States of America with a wicked passion! I urge you to forget the videos, cassettes, and books of all the LEFT BEHIND SERIES, which are out there by the millions, to make more millions. See what Jesus has to say about His return, AND BELIEVE IT! The web site you are now watching, wasn't put there by accident. You can get much Spiritual strength, by following every message to it's conclusion. Study them all! Then ask God for great discernment, He will give you all the wisdom necessary to study His Word. May His richest blessings rest upon you, as you believe His word. In His Service, Chaplain Billy
http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/jesusreturn.htm