They Sold Their Souls for Rock N' Roll

Have any of you ever seen the documentary from Fight the Good Fight Ministries titled, "They Sold Their Souls for Rock N' Roll"? You can check out a clip of it and check out the other stuff they have at http://www.goodfight.org/.The reason why I'm bringing this up is because after watching quite a few movies lately, I'm noticing that in more and more movies, there's a reference to homosexuality or there's a gay character. I think on the documentary they quoted some ancient Greek philospher that talked about how to change a society's standards. I think he said something to the extent of slowly and gradually introducing an idea, and eventually that society would end up accepting it as a way of living... something like that. So I was just realizing, or I have been, that they keep slipping this gay stuff in the media. It's pretty scary to think that pretty soon people aren't going to be shocked anymore if they see two people of the same sex kissing in public, or something to that effect.So what do you guys think about this? And I don't just mean homosexuality, but our society's morals in general. And I do realize that you all aren't in the US. It would be interesting to hear how it is in other parts of the world.

Hey kids, it seems to me that this country is just going to Hell in a handbasket. At this point it wouldnt suprise me in the least to see things get worse. I think all we can really do is pray and keep our eyes focused on the King and not get caught up in worldy entertainment. Hopefully hearing and seeing things like this will break our hearts seeing Gods creation destroyed by the enemy and move us to pray, Jesus died for the sinners to bless his Fathers heart.

I agree, that we need to pray. I think us as Christians need to also be careful that we don't get watered down in standards with the rest of the world. I mean, I'll be honest, I find myself laughing at gay people on movies like "Father of the Bride" or "Win a Date With Tad Hamilton", just to name a couple. But should I be entertained by that? Should I laugh?A good thing to remember is... okay, I can't find the verse. I've been looking forever and I don't have the convenience of PC Study Bible. Well, parapharased, love the world, but don't be a part of it. What verse is that?

umm sorry dude not sure i think it says we must be in the world but not of it. also i was listening to leonard ravenhill one time and he said something just phenomenal. Entertainment is a substitute for the joy of the Lord. Man it steals our time, we can never that back. it is our most precious comodity, and when we give it to God his heart leaps because we have freely chosen to give something to Him. I am not going to pretend that i don't liek to be entertained. I love baseball and video games and movies, but these things are fleeting and passing away.

The wonderful thing about growing in Christ and becoming 'more of Him' and less of ourselves- is that we lose a tast or desire for the world's ways. The world's entertainment, the world's views, the world's political stances, the world's everything. You get to the point where your only really concerned with the His kingdom and how 'such and such' affects it.I have probably seen 2 movies at the theatre this year- don't care if I ever go again. We ruled out all 'R' movies 2 years ago. And now we are finding ourselves buying and renting old movies like 'The Hiding place' and old Bible movies, etc...I still have to say that I did see "Gladiator" and even though I hid my eyes during the violence- it was an awsome movie with some wonderful parable-type messages.I really noticed that when you're away from all of that for awhile and then go back to it- at first your appalled- and then it is easy to lower your standards a little bit again. It seems to blur the lines you've let the Holy Spirit draw for you.Just some thoughts.But as for the whole gay issue and moral decline-I would say a great big (with tears) "watch out Sodom- here comes the U.S.A."In Him, Chanin

Andy,Entertainment is a substitute for the joy of the LordI think of this all the time and it's really true. I remember about a year or so ago, we would go see movies because we were bored and wanted to escape reality for awhile. That's just a crutch though. We really should go straight to the Lord for these needs. Spend time with Him, de-stress in Him, relax in Him, escape with Him.It's still a temptation sometimes because we have given so much other stuff up. It's seemed like the only thing left to do that we could just relax and unwind. Well, we're learning to relax and unwind in His presence amidst our little family.

if you want to access the bible on your PC, just go to www.gospelcom.net/bible (it's a bible gateway sight) it really a quite versatile sight that is a great resource to me...I think the verse(s) you were thinking of are 1 cor 5:9-11I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people-- 10not at all meaning the people of this world who are immoral, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters. In that case you would have to leave this world. 11But now I am writing you that you must not associate with anyone who calls himself a brother but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or a slanderer, a drunkard or a swindler. With such a man do not even eat. or maybe...John 17:10-1710All I have is yours, and all you have is mine. And glory has come to me through them. 11I will remain in the world no longer, but they are still in the world, and I am coming to you. Holy Father, protect them by the power of your name--the name you gave me--so that they may be one as we are one. 12While I was with them, I protected them and kept them safe by that name you gave me. None has been lost except the one doomed to destruction so that Scripture would be fulfilled. 13"I am coming to you now, but I say these things while I am still in the world, so that they may have the full measure of my joy within them. 14I have given them your word and the world has hated them, for they are not of the world any more than I am of the world. 15My prayer is not that you take them out of the world but that you protect them from the evil one. 16They are not of the world, even as I am not of it.matthew

I have found that esword works really well and is free!!! it also has a daily devoitional written by spurgeon.

I am really feeling these days that if we are going to call ourselves Christians we need to really check ourselves and think should we be watching TV and movies? Why should we entertain ourselves with the things people who are unsaved, dead in their sins, and on their way literally to hell?Amen brother! I am starting to hate more and more TV and secular movies,as my walk with God growing! I believe that this is a work of God in my life. I am convienced in my heart that He is sad when His children are watching such dirty stuffs, directly inspired from hell!Cor 10:23 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not.When you are to watch something ask yourself: Is this will make me more closer to God? More holy? Will cause me to hate sin more? If not.. turn it off!

Andrew James,Yeah, I think there should be a balance with entertainment. I know what you mean though. So many nights I crave to watch a movie I can relate to rather than read more of God's Word, write in my journal to Him, pray, or just think about Him. I rather be distracted. Yeah, something to work on.[laughs] And just a side note, what's up with guys calling girls "dude"? Just wondering. I'm not a dude by the way [laughs]. It's all good though.

Chanin, my fellow sister :-)!I totally agree with you concerning losing a taste for entertainment when you grow in Christ and then when you go through those phases of going back to it.Right now I'd have to say I'm in the "back to it" phase. I've found myself watching a lot of movies lately for social reasons. It is kind of sad. I'm sure I'm distracted right now, and I've been praying about it. Especially because I'm going on a mission trip to the Ukraine in June and July. It's like, when God wants to use you, you know that something's going to be right there to distract you from that, to keep you from being effective for Christ. But you know, I think it'll do me good to go to another country and get pulled out of this American culture for a time. It's easier to notice things from the outside looking in, than being in the midst of everything.Let's hope though, that when watching movies, I never stop cringing at cussing, anything against God, or anything morally bad. I hope I will always let the Holy Spirit keep me sensitive.

As it was pointed out, some of these movies with some horrible, unnecessary, immoral content (Gladiator, I believe, was mentioned) have otherwise wonderful, even Christian, values in them.What we have to decide (hopefully following the Spirit) is, is the good in this movie worth the swearing/violence/sexuality?Side note: You're going to the Ukraine? Where? I've been there on a missions trip myself, to Dnepropetrovsk. (nee-pro-peh-trovsk)

Sermonindex,Hmmm... well, I see what you're saying. I remember coming home from a youth summer camp once and being annoyed that my mom was watching Lassie. I had been away from the TV and everything for a week and I was upset that the TV was on. I didn't want to be in the same room because I felt like it was such a big distraction, so I went up to my room.BUT, in this being sensitive to the Holy Spirit... I think we need to be careful that we don't let ourselves get separated from other Christians who are walking with the Lord because we have different convictions. You know, I think it's like that repeated example of food being sacrificed to idols in the New Testament. There's those who were super sensitive to that and those who weren't. Did that make one person more or less of a Christian? No. Now how you act around those who are sensitive to certain things, that's different. You don't go flaunting your freedoms. Like, if I were to hang out with you, I wouldn't be like, "Hey, let's go catch a movie?" I'd probably be like, "Hey, let's just hang out and fellowship." But if I were to hang out with another Christian who invited me to go over and watch a movie with them, I would (depending what movie of course) because it doesn't bother me.Be all things to all people to win the more, right? Paul said that somewhere, didn't he?I do hope that I didn't offend you. I do see where you're coming from because I have been there. I have just come to a different place. I am a really extreme person most the time, but I have personally felt that I need to find a balance to all things. I have struggled with spiritual pride and not so fun stuff like that, so that's where I'm coming from with the balanced thing. I do respect your views though and thank you for your input.

Not to push my personal convictions, but I'd really advise anyone with a TV to get rid of it immediately, particularly if you have kids. I'm so thankful I'm not around a TV, it's such a time-sink, snare, and poison.If you have some tapes or DVDs worth watching (i.e. video bible or something like that), that could be a valid use of a TV, just keep it out of the way. Otherwise, out with it.Your decision, of course, but the vast, vast majority of things you can watch with a TV are just awful.Edit:You know, I think it's like that repeated example of food being sacrificed to idols in the New Testament. There's those who were super sensitive to that and those who weren't. Did that make one person more or less of a Christian? No. Now how you act around those who are sensitive to certain things, that's different. You don't go flaunting your freedoms. Like, if I were to hang out with you, I wouldn't be like, "Hey, let's go catch a movie?" I'd probably be like, "Hey, let's just hang out and fellowship." But if I were to hang out with another Christian who invited me to go over and watch a movie with them, I would (depending what movie of course) because it doesn't bother me.I think we should be careful when applying the passage about strong and weak brothers regarding food sacrificed to idols and such. It's clearly referring to non-moral things, things not sinful nor influencing towards sin. An informed Christian could eat food sacrificed to an idol without the slightest ill effect, since they know the idol is nothing and the food is not tainted by the sacrifice. But I don't think any Christian is immune to the sinful influence of the majority of movies out there. There's also the issue of how we should be spending our time...I'm not dogmatic about this, I wouldn't consider someone unsaved if they liked watching movies, but I would not watch a movie with anyone willingly unless (maybe) it were clearly something edifying without any trash.Please, everyone, be very careful what you let in through your eyes and ears, what you let into your mind. The enemy never ceases his efforts to destroy you and/or your ministry, we must never cease to be vigilant against sin.

Regarding the TV:Food Network. It's about the only place I can find anything good.

We watch TV about 2 hours a week. I'm not going to prescribe a rule that you should follow because that could lead to legalism. But the question we must ask ourselves, is does watching TV impact our relationship with our Lord and Savior? If it does, then let's be done with it.Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

remember, one mans Holiness is another mans legalism......When God sanctifies its Holiness--when man attempts sanctification it is legalism...the true dividing factor is Jesus Christ... 8-)

We have small children and a young teen. We are at the point where we have taken our t.v. out of the family room and are getting rid of it. We have kept our t.v. in our finished basement (it's like a family room/play room/workout room) for movies and special shows.We belong to this bible movie club for the kids so we continuously get these great bible stories in the mail (also includes some famous historical people like George Washington, etc...)My kids used to watch cartoons or Disney channel- not anymore. The reason was because of the 'attitudes'. The kids and the cartoons always had an 'attitude' and my kids picked up on this right away. It's bad enough with their friends and school mates and neighbors.So now the only channel we are allowed to watch is the Hallmark channel. They have Little House on the Prairie, etc... during the day and once in a while they have a wonderful family movie about horses or something. There are many days that we never turn the t.v. on and now that it's out of the living room- it's even easier to forget about it and find many others things to do.Oh, yeah, i have to be honest here and say that once in a while Arielle and I stay up late and watch Trading Spaces (a home improvement show) while we have our 'girl time' together and talk. I know it's a good time to let her watch an ok show and I get to spend some one on one time with her too- get to know her and what she is into (like and dislikes, etc..) When they are at this age, you want all the open communication you can get! :)I actually would get rid of the t.v. for good if the kids were not so young. I really feel they benefit from these bible movies- and we get enjoyment out of discussing them afterwards.About the legalism issue- choosing to have or not have a t.v. is definitely one of those things that God deals with each person in his own time about.As we mature, we obviously see less and less need or want for the t.v. But this comes with maturity and growth. We cannot impose this kind of thing on anyone. We must let the Holy Spirit work on each heart. If we encourage growth and seeking the Lord with our all, and surrender to Him- then it will come naturally in time.

sdb,you always have some great little comments 8-)

Sky Angel Christian Tv is a pretty good alternative for secular TV. There are good clean shows, there is a fair share of bad teachers (Jim Bakker is back on TV), but it beats watching cable. We watch the clean sitcoms, movies, and Christian music videos. PBS is pretty good too.

So now we're on the subject of TV. Yeah, I haven't had cable, or access to any channels for I don't know how long. I remember when the 9/11 thing happened, I didn't find out about it until I came to work and everyone was praying about some great catastrophe. I thought there was another school shooting or something.Those of you with families and kids, I see where you're coming from with how your kids get influenced by TV. In my house though, it's a little bit of a different situation. I still live with my parents, but we're all adults. My brother's an adult now too and was living with us, but moved out recently. We still don't have "TV". I mean, we have one, but we can only play movies on it that we check out from the library or rent. So for me, watching a movie is a way to spend time with my parents. And my mom is VERY picky with what she checks out. They're mostly old, black and white films. And then when I watch movies at friend's houses or we go to the theater, it's a way to hang out with them. So I'm not getting bombarded with the world's crud 24/7. I spend more time in a Christian atmosphere than I do in a worldly one. I mean, I work at a church all day long and watch these movies like what, one day a week on the weekend!I do agree with being careful with what you put into your mind and what you see through your eyes. After watching some movies I've felt horrible and weighed down and had to pray that God would remind me of the truth.My whole point of the eating food offered to idols example is, like what Chanin said, I think, you gotta be careful what you tell people they can't and can do. For you it may be a heavy conviction not to own a TV, where someone else doesn't have a problem. Funny thing is, I'm one of those people who technically don't own a TV, so what point am I trying to make... just be sensitive I guess. The same as you would want someone to at least see where you're coming from, pay that same respect. You don't change your standards because someone else has different ones, but you at least are open to what they have to say.Again, you guys all have good input.

Greg wrote:“I am not trying to be negative but rather somber on this issue. I know that you will not stay sensitive to the Holy Spirit if you continue to subjugate yourself to things that grieve the Holy Spirit of God. … I went through a season where I did not even look at the TV for 1 minute for about 6-8 months and rather spent time in Gods word and praying. I had such a sensitivity to sin that if I was in a situation that was grieving the spirit I would literally tremble and shake, It's a different shaking then I could possibly describe but I know it was God jealously guarding over his elect. yes God is jealous over us and wants us to be Holy and set apart to Him.” Greg, Good words. You remind me of the 9th chapter of Watchman Nee’s Love Not the World where he writes:“Those whose eyes have been really opened to this world's true character find they must touch everything in it with fear and trembling, looking continually to the Lord. They know that at any moment they are liable to be caught in Satan's entanglements. Just as the drug which, in the first instance, is welcomed to relieve sickness may ultimately become itself a cause of sickness, so equally the things of the world which we can legitimately use under the Lord's authority may, if we are heedless, become a cause of our downfall. Only fools can be careless in circumstances like these.”http://www.worldinvisible.com/library/nee/lovenottheworld/chapter%209.htmFor those not familiar with the concept of “the world” as John uses it in his Gospel and elsewhere, Nee’s book is valuable.Roger

Just a question, we're not living in fear here, are we? And I don't mean fearing the Lord. That's a good, healthy respect. But I mean living in fear of Satan all the time. Yes, without God we are nothing against the enemy. Okay, here's an example. Kurt Cobain... before I was a Christian, at age 12, I got influenced a lot by the band Nirvana, in a very bad way. Looking back, I know there was evilness involved in that. A couple years ago, I started hearing my brother play songs from Nirvana on our computer or from his room. It grieved me so much. To me, Satan was laughing in my face like, "I don't have you anymore, but now I got your brother!" Whenever I heard any of their songs, I was like chained to the memories of the hold Satan had in my life before I knew God in a relationship sort of way.But one day, I don't remember when, how, or why, but it's like a light bulb came on inside my head. My brother was once again playing Nirvana, and I realized that I was practically cowering in a corner. Why?! Jesus didn't die so that I could be chained to past memories of when I was in bondage. He set me free, and I needed to start living like it! I can't tell you how freeing that felt!But you know, that's me personally. That's something God did in me. I believe that there's all kinds of Christians out there. I believe we need all of them, and I'm not talking about the carnal ones that are pretty much MIA (missing in action). I love the fact that not everyone is like me. I believe I am the way I am for a God given reason, and so is the rest of the body of Christ. Yes, God has much more molding to do in all of us, but thank Him for all the different walks of life we come from.

What we have to decide (hopefully following the Spirit) is, is the good in this movie worth the swearing/violence/sexuality?This is compromise. It says "I'll put up with the swearing/violence/sexuality as long as the plot and theme of the movie is good." Or in otherwords, "the end justifies the means", also known as utilitarianism. The end never justifies the means.

VICTORY "101"(An Excerpt)Beloved, I would answer it by saying that if the enemy is roaming like a roaring lion- it would be good to be vigilant. Do I fear my vulnerability to SIN? ABSOLUTELY! Much of my life is spent guarding my own heart (and soul). And the rest of it- it seems is spent seeking the waterbrook where the enemy looses my scent. I have known many who underestimated the power if sin and were indeed caught in it. It happens slowly and progressively and the plan is called 'wiles' in the KJV. I believe Satan loves it when TV preachers get on TV and start taunting him. Friends we must not think ourselves to stand- we must take heed at every time of day- lest we fall. You are the watchman of your own soul. There is no such thing for me as being too cautious unless I take things to such an extreme that I have stopped up the joy of the Lord. We are to abstain from all appearance of evil. We are to EXERCISE our senses to discern good and evil (Hebrews 5). This is a teaching that is virtually absent in Christendom. We are also to lay aside EVERY weight and the sin that does so easily beset us (Hebrews 12). Running the RaceThe Greeks used to run nude and I have heard would even shave their heads to improve in the wind resistance. We are running as it were from SIN. Weights allow sins that easily beset us to catch us and knock us down. Following Hebrews 5 and 12 can take a sin that does "so easily beset us" and fortify us until it very rarely if ever will beset us. This is the same thought that David proclaimed in Psalm 101 when he said he would set no evil thing before his eyes. He then went on later in the passage to say that he would not allow sin to 'cleave' unto him. That Hebrew word means to "catch by pursuit." Follow the progression- if we set evil before our eyes the enemy will catch us by pursuit. This corresponds to Hebrews 12. Sometimes people fall before the Lord having been tripped by the sin that pursued and caught them. Rather than dropping the weights and running will all their strength they try to pick them up off the ground (as it were) and their besetting sin is right behing them kicking their legs out again. We need to DROP the weights and FLEE these things. Friends I believe many people think they can handle certain 'weights' and refuse to get rid of things. Personally I have found that the 'flesh' can survive on almost anything 'evil' or 'compromising' you put in front of it. Seeds of sin are sown in subtle ways into your eyes and ears, etc. You can be sitting at the Barber shop and pick up a magazine and the process of the 'flesh rising up' can begin. Our senses are the gateways to our heart. That is why we are to EXERCISE (control) them. We are to discipline them to turn away from the sin before the words and images, like seeds, find a lodging place. Laying aside the weights, exercising your senses, and taking the ways of escape when God makes them are 3 of 10 things we can do, biblically, to fortify ourselves against temptation. If timothy needed to flee youthful lusts- so do we. If Paul needed to metaphorically black his bodies eye and lead it away prisoner- so do we. If Paul could become a castaway (adokimos disqualified, reprobate, rejected)- so can we. Understand that if you starve the sin nature it will remain weak. If you feed it- it will get stronger and aquire a greater appetite in terms of volume of sin and also potency of sin. This is 'sowing to the flesh' as Paul called it. For me, secular TV and Radio sows to the flesh no matter what it is. its enough trouble to keep turning from sin on my way home from work as I see all the various wicked billboards. REPENTANCE is turnng from sin everytime it appears in front of you. As long as sin is in the world we will have to keep turning away from it. it will be in our face in this world- but we don't have to set it before our eyes.God Bless and Best Regards in Christ!-Robert

Understand that if you starve the sin nature it will remain weak. If you feed it- it will get stronger and aquire a greater appetite in terms of volume of sin and also potency of sin.Totally agree! What I think is helpful, what's helped me at least, is to find a local Christian radio station, whether they play Christian music or broadcast Biblical teachings. Here's some links I know of:http://calvarychapel.com/effectradio/http://www.air1.com/http://www.kwve.org/http://www.klove.com/If you guys know of any other, please feel free to post!

We have air1 and klove here. Sometimes air1 is too hard and klove too fluffy- but it's much better than secular. My kids (especially my son loves air1) We like to go on the computer and research the different groups and artists to see if they really are "living the Christian life". We can usually tell by the words, but not always.If I hear a song that doesn't really line up with what we believe (which is rare), I make sure I mention something about it and why we believe this is true or not.Our family is totally into music, though. We have so many c.d.s that we don't need the radio very much. :-) Plus we have Arielle to play and sing for us! It's our own worship service when ever we want it! :-D I try to imagine the Lord looking down at our house seeing the aroma of worship coming up from the house- not just in song - but daily living.In Him, chanin

on the whole thought of secular entertainment:I think that we are desensitized to a scary extent when we entertain ourselves with actions (sin) that others are going to hell for If we laugh at what God weeps over, we as a people are in trouble.It reminds me of Romans 1. After Paul mentions this moral slippery slope, the 32nd verse says "who knowing the judgment of God that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them."By entertaining ourselves with filth are we taking pleasure in those that commit sins worthy of death?

By entertaining ourselves with filth are we taking pleasure in those that commit sins worthy of death?Yeah, probably."Try to find out what is pleasing to the Lord. Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, rebuke and expose them. It is shameful even to talk about the things ungodly people do in secret. But when the light shines on them, it becomes clear how evil these things are. And where your light shines, it will expose their evil deeds..."- Ephesians 5:10-14

Wow, I can't recommend that documentary enough! While many of us have been led by the Holy Spirit to give up or severly restrict watching most of whats on the television or on the radio. This documentary will really reenforce your decisions, or make you really think twice if you haven't. Even non-christians, who I've lent it to have been horrified with the reality of the world we live in. The "They Sold their Souls for Rock and Roll" documentary, I don't really consider just an expose on rock and modern music, but digging into the roots of our modern culture, new ageism, etc. Its undeniably traced it back to the leader of the new age/reformed satanism movement founder-Aleister Crowley. There's also a 12 hour extended version, which is also really good. As well as a new video called "Hollywood Unmasked" which details violence in Hollywood.I guarantee that after realizing how many demonic lyrics are hidden throughout popular songs, etc.... you're never be able to listen to the radio or music the same. As for the movie Gladiator, I'll post some quotes from the screen writer under a new thread called "Quotes from Hollywood"

I think the documentary is a ministry tool. When we showed it at our church, I think it was just for the parents, for their eyes to be opened up to the stuff their kids might be listening to and the darkness behind it all.And you know, not everyone's eyes are opened. Just because yours are, or mine, or others, doesn't mean that everybody's is. We're all at different parts in our walks. Anything that can shed light into the dark I don't think should be put down, even if it's something you already know. Have compassion on those who don't know and support those who would reach out to the blind.

It makes me wonder that even if you watch this 12 hour documentary that would defile you itself and satuatrate you with things of the world and clearly denomic things. I think its plain for a Christian who is filled with the Holy Spirit and reads the scriptures that much on TV even the talking on radio is abominable. I was listening to a radio station and the curses, and crude sexual jokes were so awful I couldnt believe it.I once had photocopied a bunch of CD covers a teen I worked with had to show my adult class the lyrics and to inform parents of what was out there- but I never felt easy about it. Some of that stuff was sheer blasphemy and iniquity. I used GREAT caution in the spirit of what I believe Bro. Greg is saying here. It is a shame even to speak of some things that are done by sinners in secret (Ephesians 5). The enemy will walk through any door that we open- so we should use great caution with these tools. The flesh is so easily stirred up within us. God Bless,

I watched the parts I was able to find and download. I found it a 're-fresher' course on the Satanic agenda in much popular secular music.

No, not offended. Hope I didn't offend you. :-) I guess... there's just different parts of the body, right? I'm glad that everyone doesn't think the same. God can use that. Just how to stay sensitive, encouraging, and compassionate to everyone - that can get a little tricky.

Yodi, pretty much stated exactly what I feel. I think we all can agree that in most churches, there are christians who are listening to alot of dangerous secular music. While its better for them to read the bible, pray, become obedient to God, be filled with the Holy Spirit and be able to discern for themselves... if they're not already I think this could be a ministry tool to shock them at the reality of our current world.

I'm offended that no one has apologized for not offending me... :-) j/kRavenhill said "I don't think you'll go to hell if you own a t.v. ...and I don't think you'll go to heaven if you don't." I liked that. The pastor that taught last week at our fellowship on Sunday said something that I will try to get as close to how he said it (I thought of this as I read through these posts)He talked about a bunch of people that we're asked to describe a christian. They talked about how they didn't go to movies, they don't drink, they don't hang out with people that do those kind of things...Then they were asked to decribe Jesus. They talked about how He hung out with prostitues, tax collectors (worse than a prostitute almost), ate with them, talked to them, hung out with them, touched them where they lived...then he said something to this effect."Christians today are known, not for what they do, but for what they don't do."I been a chewin' on that one...

Josh (aka oarsman7),Oh my goodness! I've been thinking about that too! I was planning on starting a topic on that, but... another poster kinda caused a lot of commotion on this forum and I didn't think it to be the right time. But yeah, things seem to have settled down.In the past we've spent so much time debating on what we shouldn't be doing. How about we start sharing about things we have been doing, and I don't mean in a puffed up, spiritually prideful way, as to keep score on our heavenly brownie points or something. But just praising God for the opportunities He gives us to build relationships with others, whether with strong Christians, struggling Christians, or the unsaved world.Maybe this should be started in a whole new topic. I don't know. But good points you made, "oarsmen7", especially the quote from Ravinhill. [laughs] You speak these guy's language better than I do!

Maybe this should be started in a whole new topic.Here you go... What I DO as a Christian