English Grammar - Help please

Sure Christian, if you translate your Blog for me. ;-)

Your Blog looks very good.

I wasn't sure which of these you would prefer so I'll just post the link to the Search.

http://www.google.com/search?q=english+grammar+basics&rls=com.microsoft:en-us&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&startIndex=&startPage=1

I'm wondering though, is it English Grammar or Greek Grammar that you're looking at?

I'd like to take this opportunity to tell you that your posts or threads have been a blessing to me.
This may sound off the wall but - I have a feeling that you could be used in a major way in Evangelism in Sweden. But you know what the reward will be from men on earth for that -- But how great it will be in Heaven for it.
That's it.
All the best with your grammar search.
God richly Bless you Christian. Be of good cheer.

Hear I go saying, "I had a feeling".
But I had a feeling you wanted the Greek Verb tenses - 'particles' & all.
You could try this one - http://www.foundalis.com/lan/grkverbs.htm
The charts and how used in sentences helps.
Over here in the U.S., we say "squeaky clean" -- is that how clean you're wanting to be first. 8-)
Have a great day in Jesus.

hmmhmm,

I'm amazed at anyone that knows more than one language as you do. I am trying to learn all over again my own English language such as: Verbs, Pronouns, etc. For the simple reason that my study Bible calls for it. The [u]Newberry Bible[/u] and boy is it rich and deep already but to have to go back and learn my English to better understand my Bible now thats tough. :-?

Hi Christian,

Yes! Your posts bless me also!

About English grammar... I believe there are tenses in Greek which we do not identify, because in English we often use more than one word to describe an action or direction.

Simply to get a consistent translation of all the verbs in the text from the original language to English, I would recommend Young's Literal Translation. The only Bible website I use is [url=www.olivetree.com]www.olivetree.com[/url] where you can find it listed amongst the translations under the Online Bible Search link at the foot of the home page.

Young's is available elsewhere on the net, where tools for textual analysis are better than at olivetree.

Hi Julian,

I echo your thought on Christian's English which is growing better all the time.

You posted while I was writing something to add about 'articles'. I toyed with sending it to Christian privately, but since you have mentioned your interest in improvement, (although you may know what follows already as some do), I'll post below for everyone who's interested.

[b]An other[/b] good thing about Young's translation, is that he is meticulous in retaining whether the definite article [i]the[/i] or the indefinite article [i]a[/i] is used originally.

As I've noticed that a few on SI whose [i]first[/i] language is English, are unsure when [u]an[/u] should be used instead of [u]a[/u], I hope this offering is helpful to some. I enjoy trying to explain these points but realise the limitations of a [i]written[/i] presentation of them.

The history of this practice is rooted in our natural inclination to make [i]spoken[/i] language flow as easily as possible.

But when [i]writing[/i] down this spoken language for formal purposes, [u]all[/u] words should be spelled in full and initials (such as 'KJV') should not be used.

Initials should not be used in speech [i]either[/i], in any formal setting.

As English is continually evolving, and drawing in words from other languages it is understood that spellings may vary. Therefore, your ears are always your best aid in deciding how to proceed when writing.

[u]A general Guide[/u]

[color=006699]When the [u]in[/u]definite article is needed and the next word begins with a [i]vowel[/i] - a, e, i, o, u - [u]a[/u] is [u]always[/u] changed to [u]an[/u].[/color]

Examples:

The first in this list is the [i]short[/i] sounding use of the vowel, the second is the [i]long[/i] sounding use of the vowel.

an apple, an ape,
an envelope, an egret,
an ink-pot, an item,
an olive, an odour,
an umbrella, an uniform.

You notice the 'long' sound is also the [i]name[/i] of a vowel.

When a word begins with [i]two[/i] letters which make the [u]same[/u] [i]sound[/i] the same rule applies; for instance, [i]eagle[/i] also begins with the sound of the name of [i]'e'[/i].

Examples:

an air, an aeroplane,
an eiderdown, an eye,
an eerie,
an oar,
an euphemism.

There are two exceptions to note.

The first is: nouns beginning with 'h' also should preceded by 'an' rather than 'a'.

Examples:

an hangar, an haven,
an honour, an hotel,
an help, an heap,
an hill, an hire,
an hunger, an hue.

I realise that even in speech these are falling out of use, but this cannot be because it makes the language easier to speak, as it does not.

The second exception is when [u]in[/u]formal English is written down, and uses the initial letter of the [u]word[/u] intended, instead of the full spoken word.

For ease of flow both in reading, and particularly if such [i]text[/i] is to be [u]read aloud[/u], one must [i]listen[/i] to the [u]names of the consonants[/u] (all the alphabet except the vowels), and apply 'an' before those letter-names which [i]begin[/i] with a [u]vowel[/u] [i]sound[/i].

Examples:

[u]an[/u] N.U.S. rep (NUS = National Union of Students) should be spoken formally as '[u]a[/u] National Union of Students representative'.

[u]an[/u] M.O.T. certificate (MOT = Ministry of Transport) should be spoken formally as '[u]a[/u] Ministry of Transport certificate'.

.... you get the idea.

This brings me to one last little point about English pronunciation.

In the sentence 'you get the idea', the 'e' of 'the' is pronounced [i]ee[/i] as in [i]thee[/i].

This is true for all the other ('th[u]ee[/u] other') possibilities of 'the' preceding a word which begins with a vowel sound.

In fact, whichever part of (written) speech begins with the vowel sound, [color=006699]('th[u]ee[/u]' in [i]spoken English only[/i] or)[/color] 'an' should be used.

We looked at nouns (above) but since the object of using 'an' is to achieve flowing [u]speech[/u] primarily, 'an' can also precede adjectives (or other words which require this spoken flow).

Examples:

an honest man,
an open heart,
an under-dog,
an even surface.

In older written English - [i]mine eyes[/i], [i]Thine eyes[/i] and [i]thine heart[/i] - we retain the same principle but these days we would not refer to [i]mine apples[/i] any more. :-P

Thank you for your patience. :-)

EDIT:

For those who are wondering about the other consonant which often sounds like a vowel in speech - y - this is classed as a 'semi-vowel'.

As in English it usually occurs within or at the end of words and its name begins with double-you (duhb-uhl-yoo) - a consonant sound - it will rarely come under the rules above.

Dorcas,

Goodness Sister, are you an English teacher because if you are could i get free lessons. It's incredible how you break it all down. Wish i knew like you do and thank you for your response. Most helpful:-)But i fear i have a long way to go and at my old age i don't see me understanding it all in the time frame i have left.:-P

running2win asked

Do you personally use an before your 'H' nouns?

If I understand it correctly the H's were silent in old english as they are in french because of the french influence on the english language which is why in classic english you use an before 'H' nouns, adjectives, and adverbs.

Also, 'an' may be a corruption of 'a' preceding nouns commencing with 'n'. An example I read was that the snake was originally known as the nadder, but it became 'an adder' when written English caught up with spoken English. Someone has to decide!

English is still pronounced in a wide variety of ways over here. The Scots have made a clear separation between 'the Queen's English' which they must speak and learn to write and spell in the classroom, and, the many dialects used in homes. In England, this distinction has been less clear, I think and some experiementation in the 1970s did lasting damage to the national consciousness of both grammar and spelling.

By the way, I think North Americans have done a fine job of preserving English, considering the competition it has had from other language groups.

Julian asked

are you an English teacher because if you are could i get free lessons.

I've done a little work on understanding how to communicate the essentials when I was a volunteer in adult literacy, but I'm not qualified to degree level. Far from it. However, if you're serious about needing help, please keep in touch, and if I am certain of the answer to the questions, then I'll do my best to share them with you.

There are some good resources online, but some of the parents on SI who are home-schooling will be able to give you more detailed technical answers on some intricacies, than I.

i don't see me understanding it all in the time frame i have left.

Preach asked

Wasn't there a thread on here one time teaching the basics on English?

I've been thinking of reviving it to revise and clarify some of what may not have been as clear as it should, in my initial enthusiasm. :-?

hmmhmm said

the Apostrophe............i forget
... Please "revive" it or link to it sister...

dorcas wrote:

...English is still pronounced in a wide variety of ways over here. The Scots have made a clear separation between 'the Queen's English' which they must speak and learn to write and spell in the classroom, and, the many dialects used in homes. In England, this distinction has been less clear, I think and some experiementation in the 1970s did lasting damage to the national consciousness of both grammar and spelling.

By the way, I think North Americans have done a fine job of preserving English, considering the competition it has had from other language groups.

Brother Christian, your English is excellent, and far more correct than most of us who have English as a first language.

The type of English seems to take on the rhythms, word order etc of the original language of the area, or the first language of the person. For example, in my home area there's Welsh-English (or "Wenglish" as it's been called), which can sound strange ot other people. My great grandfather, who was Welsh speaking, used to talk about the "pony mountains", meaning "mountain ponies", the feral horses that roamed the moorland in the area.

And an English person would be confused when we say things like, "I won't do it now, I'll do it again". "Again" here means "later".

When in Uganda I found that they spoke English differently too, and you had to start speaking like the local people or you wouldn't be understood!

For example the word "stubborn"... I was in the truck one day with an African friend, and the road was very bumpy. He said, "this road is very stubborn"!

Or someone might say, "That man is not serious!", meaning he was acting stupidly. Because in their culture it's a deadly insult to call someone stupid. That caused a serious misunderstanding on one occasion, because in my part of Wales we tend to call all sorts of things, as well as people, "stupid", meaning, ridiculous, or that something doesn't make sense. A lad from this area used the word in talking about the best way to do something and badly offended the African lady he said it to, though he meant no harm.

And to say that someone is fat is to them a compliment, because fat = healthy in that culture, while "slim" is the local slang for AIDS.

I find different languages and cultures fascinating, though I'm not very good at remembering words of other languages.

The African language where I was had almost no adjectives. All except about 6 true adjectives were derived from verbs. A verb would have prefixes, suffixes and infixes in a precise order, until you would sometimes lose the original root word almost completely. For example, "I did not give them to him" would be one single word based on the verb "give". And there were different past tenses for whether something happened recently - such as a few minutes ago, a few days ago, or a long time ago.

Mistakes can sound very funny. I sometimes confused the lady who helped us in the house by telling her what I thought meant "Don't cook supper". Eventually I discovered I was actually saying "You [i]never[/i] cook supper"!

Recently I bought an mp3 player, for wearing in my exercise class (to drown out the rock music). One instruction tells you to "[u]longly press[/u] >// to stop...".

Oh no, not a thread on apostrophes. I've enjoyed observing writing styles and in some cases have wondered if the lack of apostrophes may be a case of the Member's account being over-riddened [taken over] by someone else doing an SQL Injection, where apostrophes are non-existent.

All jokes aside - two weeks ago I found myself 'trying' to do a Search on the Origin of the English Language and for dates of origin. All that I have found was one statement - that the English language is a combination of many other languages and that was all.
Would any of you members have a source or knowledge yourselves of this history?
Thank you in advance.

HE_Reigns asked

Would any of you members have a source or knowledge yourselves of this history?

The BBC has a radio series investigating aspects of the history of English in England, but I have the feeling it is not a systematic documentary.

Sis Dorcas - Thank you for your reply.

It's no wonder I have a headache. This is where I've been and am up to thus far ---

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_language

English is a West Germanic language originating in England, and the first language for most people in Australia, Canada, the Commonwealth Caribbean, Ireland, New Zealand, the United Kingdom and the United States of America (also commonly known as the Anglosphere). It is used extensively as a second language and as an official language throughout the world, especially in Commonwealth countries such as India, Sri Lanka, Pakistan and South Africa, and in many international organisations.

Modern English is sometimes described as the global lingua franca.[1][2] English is the dominant international language in communications, science, business, aviation, entertainment, radio and diplomacy.[3] The influence of the British Empire is the primary reason for the initial spread of the language far beyond the British Isles.[4] Following World War II, the growing economic and cultural influence of the United States has significantly accelerated the spread of the language. On an average school day approximately one billion people are learning English in one form or another.

A working knowledge of English is required in certain fields, professions, and occupations. As a result over a billion people speak English at least at a basic level (see English language learning and teaching). English is one of six official languages of the United Nations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_English_language

English is a West Germanic language that originated from the Anglo-Frisian dialects brought to Britain by Germanic settlers and Roman auxiliary troops from various parts of what is now northwest Germany and the Northern Netherlands. Initially, Old English was a diverse group of dialects, reflecting the varied origins of the Anglo-Saxon Kingdoms of England. One of these dialects, Late West Saxon, eventually came to dominate. The original Old English language was then influenced by two waves of invasion. The first was by language speakers of the Scandinavian branch of the Germanic family; they conquered and colonized parts of Britain in the 8th and 9th centuries. The second was the Normans in the 11th century, who spoke Old French and ultimately developed an English variety of this called Anglo-Norman. These two invasions caused English to become "mixed" to some degree (though it was never a truly mixed language in the strict linguistic sense of the word; mixed languages arise from the cohabitation of speakers of different languages, who develop a hybrid tongue for basic communication).

Cohabitation with the Scandinavians resulted in a significant grammatical simplification and lexical enrichment of the Anglo-Frisian core of English; the later Norman occupation led to the grafting onto that Germanic core of a more elaborate layer of words from the Romance branch of the European languages. This Norman influence entered English largely through the courts and government. Thus, English developed into a "borrowing" language of great flexibility and with a huge vocabulary.

The Germanic tribes who gave rise to the English language (the Angles, Saxons, Frisians, Jutes and perhaps even the Franks), traded with and fought with the Latin-speaking Roman Empire in the process of the Germanic invasion of Europe from the East. Many Latin words for common objects therefore entered the vocabulary of these Germanic people even before any of these tribes reached Britain; examples include camp, cheese, cook, fork, inch, kettle, kitchen, linen, mile, mill, mint (coin), noon, pillow, pin, pound, punt (boat), street, and wall. The Romans also gave English words which they had themselves borrowed from other languages: anchor, butter, chest, devil, dish, sack and wine.

According to the Anglo-Saxon Chronicle, around the year 449, Vortigern, King of the Britons, invited the "Angle kin" (Angles led by Hengest and Horsa) to help him in conflicts with the Picts. In return, the Angles were granted lands in the southeast of England. Further aid was sought and in response "came men of Ald Seaxum of Anglum of Iotum" (Saxons, Angles and Jutes). The Chronicle talks of a subsequent influx of settlers who eventually established seven kingdoms, known as the heptarchy. Modern scholarship considers most of this story to be legendary and politically motivated and the identification of the tribes with the Angles, Saxons and Jutes is no longer accepted as an accurate description (Myres, 1986, p. 46ff), especially since the Anglo-Saxon language is more similar to Frisian than any single one of the others.

The invaders' Germanic language displaced the indigenous Brythonic languages of what became England. The Celtic languages remained in Scotland, Wales and Cornwall. The dialects spoken by the Anglo-Saxons formed what is now called Old English.

The modern Brythonic languages are generally considered to all derive from a common ancestral language termed British, Common Brythonic, Old Brythonic or Proto-Brythonic, which is thought to have developed from Proto-Celtic, which was possibly introduced to Great Britain from the middle second millennium BC (Hawkes, 1973). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brythonic_languages

History of the English Language
http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~cpercy/hell/

I would say that I've found my answers - for when I am up to reading it all. :-? I suppose an ice-pack is in order presently.
[u]Thank you![/u]

Well that was interesting reading!

I think the Frisian has left a big influence in some dialects. Apparently people who speak the dialect in NE Scotland (Aberdeenshire) in the days before radio, may not have understood the King's English, but could manage to communicate with those from across the North Sea.

hmmhmm,

Brother thank you so much for this. It will surely help and aid me in my studies with my Newberry Bible.

Julian and Christian,

Would you like a thread on spelling...? I don't mean spelling short words, but the ones which have a [i]root[/i] word (often from a language such as Latin, Greek or French), which has had meanings added or subtracted from it by the [i]addition[/i] of prefixes (before the root) and suffixes (after the root)... often more than one both before and after. I would not try to do a comprehsive list, but simply give the main idea, for you to notice in your reading, and be more confident in your spelling. I don't mind if you don't. It was just a thought.

Well, brother, I was not sure about this one, so I resorted to the web, and found this page. I think it gives just enough English to help you work out what you need, but it is primarily an explanation of Greek construction, so I hope it is also helpful in that respect.

Briefly explained, an [b]emphatic pronoun[/b] follows immediately (in the same sentence), the noun of which [u]it is a form of repetition for the sake of emphasis[/u], (a pronoun being a way of alluding to a noun already in use in the sentence or paragraph).

I haven't read the whole page, but I noticed one [i]mistake[/i] in the English, namely 'you self'. Corrected, it should be [u]yourself[/u], with no break between the two words.

[url=http://www.geocities.com/alexandrosworld/Greek/Pronouns.html]http://www.geocities.com/alexandrosworld/Greek/Pronouns.html[/url]

If you scroll down the page to Emphatic Pronouns, even if you don't understand the Greek, I think the English is quite clear.

What do you think?