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Critical Ravenhill

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MisterCheez

This is not meant to run down a great man of God, it's more of a question:

After listening to a selection of Leonard Ravenhill's sermons, I'm confronted on a number of subjects.

However, besides the obvious truth behind his messages does anyone else wonder about the consistent cheerlessness, criticism and hopelessness he seemingly conveys?

I think (stress the word "think") I heard a David Wilkerson sermon where he said something about Leonard ending up as bitter and unhappy in his later years.

Again, this isn't to run the man down but there seems to be a sour thread (understandably) in much of his teaching and I was curious what others thought and what we might be able to learn from this...

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hmmhmm

I belive his consistent cheerlessness as you put it is a godly sorrow, I belive he had a burden larger then most christians. I think he weept more for peoples sin then they themselfes. I belive when we really love, is when we see people as God sees them. And most often that is terrible sight....

his criticism is not so much criticism as it is truth or stated facts in my view

I do think he had joy, i think from what I can hear in his teachings he had a wonderful sense of humor :-) or maybe just me who thinks he does.

I havent been saved so long, but i am already tired of this false and lukewarm "professing" Christianity, what about when seeing it for 50-60 years? as Ravenhill?

Just some thoughts

Christian

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MSeaman


hmmhmm wrote:
I belive his consistent cheerlessness as you put it is a godly sorrow, I belive he had a burden larger then most christians. I think he weept more for peoples sin then they themselfes. I belive when we really love, is when we see people as God sees them. And most often that is terrible sight....

his criticism is not so much criticism as it is truth or stated facts in my view

I do think he had joy, i think from what I can hear in his teachings he had a wonderful sense of humor :-) or maybe just me who thinks he does.

I havent been saved so long, but i am already tired of this false and lukewarm "professing" Christianity, what about when seeing it for 50-60 years? as Ravenhill?

Just some thoughts

Christian

I've listened to several of Ravenhill's sermons and I have found the same to be true. Well stated, Christian.

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sermonindex

I did think that for a while as well, and maybe he didn't show that much joy much of the time! But I also remember hearing a clip from a sermon that he preached, and he sounded like the happiest man alive and was talking about how great God was and how much he loved Him! Was pretty cool, although I can't remember what the sermon was called.

I also think though, as someone mentioned the term earlier in this thread. We can misuse the term 'Godly sorrow'. Yes, it's true that it is real, and we as Christians should all experience it, however that is no reason to be grumpy and unhappy and negative all the time. I should know, I've been there and it's NOT how God would want you to live!

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iansmith

One of the employees in the ministry where I work was a member of YWAM missions overseas in the 1980's. He said that by the time that he had joined YWAM Ravenhill and Keith Green had both recieved a odious reputation among YWAMers.

He refered to Leonard Ravenhill as 'Leonard Ravenous.'

One reason I think that Leonard Ravenhill might have been bitter in his old age was that people who were once friends and supporters turned against his teachings (before or soon after his death).

I am reminded of John 6:60,66 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it? ... From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

But Leonard Ravenhill rightly defined a [url=http://www.ravenhill.org/prophet.htm]Prophet[/url] in his book 'America is too young to die.' Which starts:

The prophet in his day is fully accepted of God and totally rejected by men.

Years back, Dr. Gregory Mantle was right when he said, "No man can be fully accepted until he is totally rejected." The prophet of the Lord is aware of both these experiences. They are his "brand name."

His entire life Ravenhill commited himself to speaking boldy, and sometimes harshly in the name of the Lord. He may have reaped sorrow here in his lifetime, but he will be rewarded with a crown for his obedience to the calling he recieved.

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dohzman

I think what seems to happen with men and women of God who have been set in place, especially internationally, they seem to be a counter balance to what's happening in the church. Here is what I mean, say a movement is going North at 40 miles per hour, it is the wrong direction, so God raises up a man or woman who will tackle that moving object (in this case it's the church movement), the only way that can be done is to have equal or more force moving at a faster pace heading south, until there's a collision, than the church is forced to stand at the cross roads and make a decision, "choice".

Think about John the baptist, he was an ascetic to the max, self denial plus on steroids, this dude was off the hook, But God (Jesus) praised him and said there no greater prophet than he! That's even better than hearing well done good and faithful servant! He was double blessed in that he obtained a more excellant name on earth as well as in heaven.

If I was to make a guess I would probably say that Ravenhill may sit somewhere in there, one things for sure---- No one will ever die and go to hell by following his doctrine.

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sermonindex

Jesus was no doubt a man of sorrows.

And the prophet Jeremiah ended up in a state of "lamentations" at the end of his ministry.

I'm told that Leonard ended his life believing that, as a whole, the Church ignored his message.

And today, many who praise the name of Leonard Ravenhill do not actually practice what he taught.

Many today like to listen to these emotionally stirring and convicting messages, but their will never actually changes. It's just a spiritual high for them. It's become the popular thing today to listen to heavy messages. But many are not changed because of it.

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RobertW

Sometimes it is very hard to sit by and watch things deteriorate as a minister. There is an urgency that increases as time seems to be running out. The challenge is to experience this without coming off as harsh and critical. When I hear Ravenhill I am hearing a man that is very concerned about the state of the Church.

I was recently in with a man that is dying. On this particular day he thought it would be his last. He is very very ill. He called the family over and begin to speak DIRECTLY to them in a very serious and some would argue 'harsh' way. Everyone knew it was a loving plea to WAKE UP before it is too late. He tells the one to stop going to the bars before it sends their soul strait to hell. He begs others to get in church. This went on one by one as he plead with them to turn from their wicked ways and turn to Christ.

Moments like these are not pretty. But it remonds me of Paul in Acts 21 that for 3 years he warned the people [i]night[/i] and [i]day[/i]with [u]tears[/u]. This is urgency. This is the care of the churches. This is a great burden that does not always manifest in ways that are comfortable and delightful. Sometimes it can get very uncomfortable.

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ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi MisterCheez...

I think that I understand how such a sentiment could be taken from simply listening to some of his messages. However, many of his messages are also mingled with wit and humor that reflect his understanding of the age and his own inner joy in the Lord.

As a young teen, I met with Brother Ravenhill in his home shortly before he died. He was both polite and kind. He was certainly somber -- as serious times merit serious attitudes. But he was also a man who reflected the inner joy of knowing our Lord. He spoke about being heartbroken from realizing the condition of the modern Church. He told me that he was writing a new work entitled "Why Revival STILL Tarries" which was dedicated to those who read the first book ("Why Revival Tarries") yet had done nothing.

Even with the terrible responsibility that comes with the realization of the condition of the modern Church, Brother Ravenhill still seemed to convey a very real joy. In the course of our conversation, he encouraged me to not be discouraged. Even when all hope seems lost -- and both the world and Church may seem to be spiraling into deeper darkness, Brother Ravenhill reminded me that the victory of the ages ultimately belongs to Christ Jesus. No matter how dark it becomes, His Word will not return void.

In the midst of our meeting, Brother Ravenhill wept, warned and laughed (well, "chuckled" might be a better word). He warned me that the cost of "going all the way with God" could result in loneliness. But he smiled and told me that a man of God is NEVER alone. Not only are we surrounded by a "great cloud of witnesses," but we learn to grow ever more dependent upon the Lord for encouragement.

When I first heard a message by Brother Ravenhill, I noticed that he would sometimes jest about natural things. I remember him telling about how his garden fulfills the Word through "faith and works." He said that he has the "faith" while his wife has the "works."

Yet I am so glad that Brother Ravenhill didn't attempt to humor or impress us with a keen wit. Rather, his words have been a wakeup call in my own life. The world is damned. Should we attempt to remain acceptable and cheerful as the world dies -- or should we proclaim the truth as is revealed by God's Word? I think that Brother Ravenhill chose the latter while still encouraging himself in the Lord.

:-)

C
crsschk

Like this thread ...

Had the same exact early reaction brother upon wandering into this wonder of wonders, I do believe my initial reaction was that he was "harsh". That later turned to not harsh enough (in many aspects) and to the point now where he is something of a long lost grandfather, perhaps even a spiritual one at that ...

I do cringe a bit when some who have been once impressed, taken or otherwise challenged by this unique man of God now find themselves having ... 'outgrown' him ... maybe and funny but suddenly a Ravenhillesque notion takes hold, doubt they have [i]outgroaned[/i] him.

Our brother I believe had it right, godly sorrow... Have you listened\\watched the interview with him brother? The video speaks perhaps better.

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jimp

hi, i am one who knew len and prayed with him and got to know his heart. i am a joy freak and will always be but i was tempered by those times with him.'THE CHRISTIANS OF TODAY ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR TODAYS LOST' is his burden and further stated "there are more people dying and going to hell today than at any time in history" great love drove him to asullen, burdened life.jimp

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sermonindex

I fully agree that we have had and have 'Jeremiah' types and he was one. They're not too much "fun" to be with at times. They are laden with the burden of the Lord - the things that God shows them. Amen.
You can see into his heart when he wrote about What is a prophet and his desperate prayer that God would send them to us. Amen again.

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intrcssr83

Question: How do we draw the line between genuine godly sorrow that sets people apart which Ravenhill taught as opposed to frustration that comes from a carnal "I'm right, everyone's wrong" kind of attitude?

I ask because I often see people who start with the former, but get deceived into becoming the latter due to lack of humillity, patience and accoutability towards fellow brethren that may lack similar conviction (I myself just had to deal with such a case this past weekend. While it's been resolved, it was quite uncomfortable nonetheless:cry:)

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narrowpath

I sometimes ask myself the same questions. Too harsh, too cynical? Does he send us all on a guilt trip? Who does not feel the whip of his words coming down on his own flesh?
We have many teachers, but very few fathers. We have many preachers but very few true prophets. He was one and he still speaks to this generation. When he exposed lukewarm and false Christianity in his day whith harsh words, what would Ravenhill tell the church of today??
He definitely was not a dry eyed prophet. I do not feel condemned by him. Together wih Art Katz, Paul Washer and Zac Poonen he always stirs me up in the Spirit and causes me to draw closer to God.

Philip

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JFEdgar

As Alan Martin often says, even if a statement is true or accurate, that doesnt necessarily mean it is pleasing in God's eyes.

When the 10 Israelites came back with an "evil report" about the land of Canaan, it wasnt a false report. Everything they said was true... there were giants in the land and overwhelming odds against them. It was the fact that they were faithless in giving the report. The other two came back with the exact same things to share. But they had faith in God to move in them and give them victory.

We need to have the same attitude when addressing the church. It is an "evil report" to blast the 'state of the church in america' without faith that God will come in and have His victory in us. It is an 'evil report' to talk about the overwhelmingly bad situation and the odds against us without believing God for victory.

Love hopes all things. We will be judged for every idle and misspoken word.

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KingJimmy

I think perhaps the deep despair Ravenhill might have felt at the end of his life, if such a report is indeed true, and the seemingly "bitterness" in his preaching, is the product of Ravenhill having some ideas that dominated his preaching that smacked more of romanticism than were necessarily deeply rooted in Scripture.

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saltlicker20

I love listening to and reading Leonard Ravenhill... but I have to agree about the critical thing maybe being a little too overwhelming for some (including myself).

Just from personal experience, I know that if I listen to too much Ravenhill and read too much Ravenhill it becomes extremely easy to become Legalistic. Mainly because of the heavy burdens he preaches and romantic ideals he lifts up. I find it always good to enjoy his teaching in moderation mixed in with a little Andrew Murray and other like teachers.

-DO

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RobertW

I think perhaps the deep despair Ravenhill might have felt at the end of his life, if such a report is indeed true, and the seemingly "bitterness" in his preaching, is the product of Ravenhill having some ideas that dominated his preaching that smacked more of romanticism than were necessarily deeply rooted in Scripture.

I have had that thought cross my mind also. Sometimes I think that the emphasis can center more on how many hours a person can pray than whether or not God is well pleased that we are about the Master's business. This, in my opinion, is how revival's fizzle out. The ultimate goal in seeing a people revived is that they would get about the work with a pure heart fervently. If folk hang around too long waiting on a great move of God they may well get nothing done. Maybe I am too much like Finney in that regard.

Everyone has to make up their place in the hedge and do what God has called them to do. I cannot allow some of the extreme practices of 10:00 PM to 4:00 AM praying 365 days a year take hold of my conscience. I have to do what God has called [i]me[/i] to do. That is the only way I can please God. I have to work a job and provide for my family. I have to tend to their needs [i]first[/i]. Will God reward a man for praying 6 hours a day when he specifically gave instruction to train up His children, etc. and make provision for his own? It would take three men to accomplish some of the things that are pointed out in books and sermons on revival if a person tried to be all of them. I can't be a Brainard, Hyde, Finney, Wesley, etc. all rolled up onto one. I can't have a Hebrides revival every month in our community. But I can get about what God has called me to do- live in personal revival with a clear conscience- filled with the Spirit and set about to accomplish as much as I can in this short life on earth led of the Spirit.

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roadsign

This is not meant to run down a great man of God, it's more of a question:

Mistercheez, I appreciate the thoughtful way in which you raised your concern. I have been feeling similar.

Inarguably, Ravenhill has powerfully touched many lives. I once heard a testimony of a missionary whom he had known and influenced. This Canadian (?) was with the Voice of the Martyrs at the time, working in Sudanese villages, trying to save them from genocide. It was an unbelievable message. I’ll never forget his story about the bullets raining down from helicopters onto the villagers - and he was in the middle of it all. I am convinced that if Ravenhill had heard that testimony, he would have been encouraged – seeing that God is indeed stirring people to give their lives for Christ – those whom he himself had discipled personally, or influenced through his books (me, for example).

Ten years ago, when I read Ravenhill’s books, I did not get the sense of dark grief that I picked up when listening to his sermons. Now I am suspecting that in his later years he was mourning a death of a dream: The very thing that he had passionately craved for, his one biggest hope, did not come true in his lifetime.


Perhaps we can learn from Ravenhill that we need to keep the joy of the Lord at the center of our heart – no matter how deeply we weep and no matter how dark the clouds get. I know for myself how despondency can easily creep in, even leading to cynicism. That’s why I frequently ask the Lord to show me a specific example of where he is working. This seems to be a good antidote. It also helps me remember that God is always working somewhere.

We can also learn from Ravenhill that it is important to keep our eyes on the Lord, more even than on revival or on the apostate church. After all, our hope is in the Lord, not in anything in this world. God is sovereign and has promised to build his Church. We can’t forget that. He works in his time, not ours.

If folk hang around too long waiting on a great move of God they may well get nothing done.

I wonder if this isn’t the outcome of turning revival into an idol. We are trusting IT to do something for us, rather than taking personal responsibility to live out our day by day calling as articulated in Scripture.

Diane

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KingJimmy


I cannot allow some of the extreme practices of 10:00 PM to 4:00 AM praying 365 days a year take hold of my conscience.

Indeed, I have no idea why such is considered a "spiritual" practice. Indeed, most serious Christians know what it is to perform a night watch, when one is so burdened by the Spirit of God that they are compelled to do such. But for it to be a regular personal or corporate discipline, simply isn't very practical... unless perhaps you are in full-time ministry and are single.


I have to work a job and provide for my family.

Indeed, and such is a "spiritual thing." So much so that Paul says that if one does not look after his own, and take care of his family, he's worse than an infidel. There are indeed some "practical" things that one must do in life. But even these practical things can be done in a spirit of worship that is just as pleasing to God. Indeed, those who are spiritual do everything as an act of worship to God.

That's not to say that we are free to neglect regular times simply to lie before the Lord. Nor is that to deny one might indeed have special seasons of devotion e.g. when fasting. But, ultimately all that matters is that whatever we do in word or deed, we do in the name of the Lord.

K
KingJimmy


I wonder if this isn’t the outcome of turning revival into an idol.

Indeed, this can be a problem. We are seeking some great "experience." But in reality, the true experience is not in a revival (as valuable as those might be), rather, the true experience is in a life of discipleship. As Christ said, if you continue in my word, you are truly disciples of mine, and you shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free. Disciples, who apply the truth of God's word in their daily lives-- that is the experience Christ calls us to.

Just seeking revival will open us to deception. That is why I think, perhaps, we see Ravenhill come rather unglued (imo) at the Anaheim Revival conference. At this conference he was in the company of many "prophets" who played upon him and his desire for revival, which I think him led to say some rather silly things. Because if revival is all we become about, and becomes an idol, then such is a possibility.

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dohzman

I believe a disciplined life is what Ravenhill was getting at when he made many of his illastrations. I don't believe he would advocate comparing our selves by ourselves. He was a godly man who spoke sound doctrine as well as wrote it. He saw something coming to the church and something in the church that shook him to the core of his being. I have a friend who has cancer of the left ear but refuses to get it looked at by a doctor. He'll probably die much earlier than what God intended him to if he doesn't do something about it soon. It's that kind of observation of death looming that drives one to be desprite for change. His harshness was rooted in deep concern and genuine love, a love that probably spent many nites pacing the floor and crying out to God for the likes of us.

Old time penecostals tell of revivals that lasted into the early morning hours and godly men and women left church, went home and got ready for work, finished up work and went right back to church and God was with them and they didn't get tired. This church age has lost sight of a limitless God and reduced God to a commonsense approach, Ravenhill saw that, it reflects in his writtings.We need to not second guess men like Ravenhill. Rom 14:22 The faith that you have, keep between yourself and God. Blessed is the one who has no reason to pass judgment on himself for what he approves.
Maybe we should avoid things that cause us to stumble into doubtful disputations.

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theopenlife

This thread has been very thoughtful and useful.

"I can't be a Brainard, Hyde, Finney, Wesley, etc. all rolled up onto one. I can't have a Hebrides revival every month in our community. But I can get about what God has called me to do- live in personal revival with a clear conscience- filled with the Spirit and set about to accomplish as much as I can in this short life on earth led of the Spirit."

That cuts to the heart of it! Agreed.

"I think perhaps the deep despair Ravenhill might have felt at the end of his life, if such a report is indeed true, and the seemingly "bitterness" in his preaching, is the product of Ravenhill having some ideas that dominated his preaching that smacked more of romanticism than were necessarily deeply rooted in Scripture."

In certain ways I agree with this. While I know that his burden rightly came from the neglect others showed towards souls, yet he seemed to have little confidence in the sovereignty of God to save whom He would, guilt of the church's neglect maintained.

"I doubt they have outgroaned him."

So true! Whatever faults Ravenhill had, he loved. It is pitiful to be prayerless and yet worse to be care-less.

Ravenhill taught me that God is worthy of our extreme devotion. Paul Washer taught me that God is extremely devoted to us. I will add that Ravenhill always moved me towards legalism until I became more solidified in the doctrines of grace. Now I am filled with equal energy but it is more like loving obedience.


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Tears_of_joy

roadsign wrote:
Now I am suspecting that in his later years he was mourning a death of a dream: The very thing that he had passionately craved for, [b]his one biggest hope, did not come true in his lifetime.[/b]

One thing he very often repeated was Hebrews 11 chapter, and especially:

Hebrews 11:13 [b]These all died in faith, not having received the promises,[/b] but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.

He used to say how this verse amazed him again and again. So I think he knew that. I think the interview talks very much about his last days, he was a broken man before God. And I think it's not fair to say that he hadn't joy, I can sense his joy was very deep in the Lord.

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Tears_of_joy

KingJimmy wrote:
Indeed, this can be a problem. [b]We are seeking some great "experience."[/b] But in reality, the true experience is not in a revival (as valuable as those might be), rather, the true experience is in a life of discipleship. As Christ said, if you continue in my word, you are truly disciples of mine, and you shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free.

[b]Just seeking revival will open us to deception. [/b]That is why I think, perhaps, we see Ravenhill come rather unglued (imo) at the Anaheim Revival conference. At this conference he was in the company of many "prophets" who played upon him and his desire for revival, which I think him led to say some rather silly things. Because if revival is all we become about, and becomes an idol, then such is a possibility.

From this post seems like he didn't know that. I think he knew that very well.

Here is what he said:

I think it is a [b]danger[/b] of seeking revival to justify my ministry, to prove "we are the best people in the town". What is it say in Malachi "the Lord, whom ye seek". [b]We are not seeking HIM, we are seeking revival, we are seeking healings, we are seeking miracles. It's not that we need! If we get God , we get all that's need it![/b]
-Leonard Ravenhill

We are seeking blessing,
We are seeking success,
We are seeking ministry
God is seeking sacrifice!
-L.R.

I think he knew that very well, what you said: "Disciples, who apply the truth of God's word in their daily lives-- that is the experience Christ calls us to." And he preached that.

From the people whom I have read or heard that have been under his teaching and ministry, we can see a fruits of very mature and stable disciples, that are continuing to preach and live the old paths.

And of course he was not a perfect, but the very fact that this site exist (was created firstly to share his messages) and hundreds were prompted unto deeper life with the Lord, means something.

The Lord has different vessels for different uses, we can gain from Ravenhill one thing, from Andrew Murray other thing, the Lord chooses, ordains and sends for His purposes.

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 [b]For the perfecting of the saints,[/b] for the work of the ministry, [b]for the edifying of the body of Christ: [/b]
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

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RobertW

Old time penecostals tell of revivals that lasted into the early morning hours and godly men and women left church, went home and got ready for work, finished up work and went right back to church and God was with them and they didn't get tired.

I have been in services and prayer meetings like this. I have seen God move in ways that 6 hours in prayer seemed like an hour or two. Like we stepped into eternity. We finally just had to almost force ourselves to go home. I can't recall being real tired the next day.

The challenge in those days was that we came together over and over again and a sense of "Now What?" set in. In other words- God is moving by His Spirit- "Now what are we supposed to do?" Some hung around for more and more experiences and deeper manifestations until things started to really weird out. What we needed to do was do what the 120 did and take to the streets in ministry turning the world upside down. There were mighty manifestations of the Spirit in the early days of the Book of Acts. When God sends a revival it will energize the people to get about the work. This is how the spiritual climate of whole societies can change.

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running2win

It seems to me that those here with a more critical view of Ravenhill (I'm not a Ravenhill fanatic or idolizer) don't have a very good understanding of Len or those who seek revival.
You say Len had idealistic, romanticized ideas? Tell me, have you any faith that God can change this fallen generation? Honestly?
Ravenhill's passion was not for an experience. When talking about revival what he is talking about is God coming and changing peoples's lives. He's talking about the promise that when the Holy Ghost has come upon us He will convict the world of sin, righteousness, and of judgment.
Study real revivals. That's what Len's passion was all about.
And when he talks about praying through the night and things like that He's not being legalistic his point is- can you in the first place? Not do you travail in prayer for hours on end but can you travail in prayer at all in the first place? I'd have to say that Len has never led me into legalism and I've listened to scores of his sermons. How big is the God we serve really? Have we no confidence in the faithfulness of God? When I listen to Ravenhill I find myself crying "God I'm not what I could be! Revive [i]ME[/i]!" You say "I can't be a Brainerd, Finney, &c rolled into one"- why not?
I once read a 400 page biography on Moody and there something that permanently glued itself into my mind. It was telling the story of when Henry Varley told Moody that the world has yet to see what God can do through, and for and in (don't quote that, I know that's not accurate it just gives the general idea) the man wholy and totally consecrated to him, and then it said that Moody was [b]determined[/b] to be that man.

Are there none among us that cry like Moody "God no matter what the cost, for your glory make me the man that turns this generation back to you!"?
Do we not see the tremendous potential there is in the christian life to make an impact for God like Moody, and Ravenhill, and Finney, and Whitefield made? Do we not believe that God can and wants to work through us like He did through them? Do we really believe that God is no respector of persons? Would we dare to pray "God whatever the cost, I must have what Wesley had!"?
Just somethings to ponder.

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RobertW

Not do you travail in prayer for hours on end but can you travail in prayer at all in the first place?

Can a man trevail in prayer for a lost world without first seeing them face to face? My point is that it is of no use to pray without adding legs to the prayers and setting about the work. There are people dying and going to a devils hell all around us and the trevail I feel for them is often at their bedside. What doth it profit if a man say he hath faith and have not works? Can faith alone save this world?

You say "I can't be a Brainerd, Finney, &c rolled into one"- why not?

Because I am just one man. And God never called me to be them- he called me to be [i]me[/i].

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Rahman

Hey i know we all are entitled to our opinions ... So please don't anyone stone me for mine ... OK? ...

i love bro Ravenhill - period! ...

It was he (i believe) whom our Lord used to ehort me to "If you believe yourself called of the Lord to prophet, then whatever you hear God say do - do it" ... Whether he, or myself, was in the will of God of his saying it, and me obeying it, can be argued and debated back and forth as much regarding this subject is on SI Forum, but i can tell you his words have been the catalyst since in continuance of doing everything i've done regarding what i believe i've heard from God, and the intensity toward REVIVAL ...

It's funny, i've never ever once concidered Ravenhill to be "critical" or "harsh" ... i've always concidered his clever plays on words to be "conviction quips" of truth, and that's what they always do to me even now, but then i'm one of those weird kinda saints that likes to be "convicted" ... Don't get me wrong i like scriptural consolation, but for me if a preacher ain't steppin all over my carnal toes in sermon then he's not doing his job ...

When i hear Ravenhill i hear the heart of a man with a "real" burden for God, and the Body, that not many had then, and i know even less have now ... Personally i wish spiritually i was a third of a man of God as i believe Ravenhill was in his love, honesty, and integrity to Jesus and Bride, especially his integrity ... Ravenhill prayed continuously for 60 years for REVIVAL and never saw it, i've only been doing it for 20 and that's been sporadic (save for the last 7 yrs) because truthfully i'm much more "self centered" than "fellow saint centered" and am of the opinion that God sure could find someone else better suited than myself to meddling in other saints/pastors lives than myself, also intercession toward REVIVAL (i'm talking about wicked me here, not you other perfect intecessors) ain't an east thing when all one sees is the Body getting worse, and lastly i find (beginning with myself) God's people to be a real pain to deal with, especially the leadership, when it comes to attempt of delivery of any kind of message that God's not pleased with our behaviour and/or ways of doing things ...

The last thing Laodicea is trying to hear is "correction" ... It's why we'll experience it instead ...


[b]RAVENHILL’S CONVICTION QUIPS:

- THE KEY TO REVIVAL STARTS IN THE PULPIT (JOEL1:13), THEN THE PEW (2 CHRON 7:14) … L.R.

- WE'LL HAVE NO BROKEN HEARTED PEWS, UNTIL WE HAVE BROKEN HEARTED PULPITS … L.R.

- UNLESS WE ALLOW THE LORD TO EMPTY US, THERE IS NO FILLING … L.R.

- IN THE EARLY CHURCH THEY WERE ALL AMAZED (BY WHAT GOD WAS DOING), IN THE MODERN CHURCH WE WANT TO BE AMUSED (BY WHAT WE WANT GOD TO DO) … L.R.

- IN THE EARLY CHURCH THEIR POWER WAS ELECTRIFYING, IN THE MODERN CHURCH OUR POWER IS ELECTRONIC … L.R.

- IN CHURCHES TODAY THERE'S MORE FASHION, THAN PASSION … L.R.

- THE MODERN CHURCH/SAINT IS QUICK TO JOIN A COMMITTEE, BUT SLOW TO JOIN A COMMITMENT … L.R.

- MOST COMMITTEES SPEND HOURS MAKING MINUTES … L.R.

- THE BIBLE DOES NOT SAY WE LOST OUR FIRST LOVE, IT SAYS WE LEFT OUR FIRST LOVE … L.R.

- THE PROBLEM IS NOT GETTING US TO THE CROSS, IT'S GETTING US ON THE CROSS … L.R.

- WE WANT TO ORGANIZE, WHILE GOD WANTS US TO AGONIZE … L.R.

- CHURCH UNITY COMES FROM CORPORATE HUMILITY … L.R.

- THE WORLDS OUTLOOK IS EXTREMELY GRIM, BUT THE CHRISTIANS UPLOOK IS EXTREMELY GLORIOUS … L.R.

- WE'VE GOT MUSLIMS READY TO DIE FOR THEIR FAITH, AND CHRISTIANS WHO AREN'T READY TO LIVE FOR OURS … L.R.

- WE'RE QUICK TO WEAR A CROSS, BUT SLOW TO BEAR A CROSS … L.R.

- WITH THE BIBLE ITS NOT WHETHER ONE GOES THRU THE BOOK, BUT WHETHER THE BOOK GOES THRU ONE … L.R.

- GOD'S NOT INTERESTED IN OUR ABILITY, HE'S INTERESTED IN OUR STICKABILITY … L.R.

- THERE ARE ONLY TWO KINDS OF PERSONS: THOSE DEAD IN SIN AND THOSE DEAD TO SIN … L.R.

- GOD’S NOT LOOKING FOR PARTNERSHIP WITH US, BUT OWNERSHIP OF US … L.R.

- WHAT GOOD DOES IT DO TO SPEAK IN TONGUES ON SUNDAY, THEN CURSE AND GOSSIP ON MONDAY? … L.R.

- WE MUST DO WHAT WE CAN DO FOR GOD FIRST, BEFORE HE WILL GIVE US THE POWER TO DO WHAT WE CAN’T … L.R.

- FOLK MAY CHASTISE YOU FOR TAKING GOD'S WORD SO SERIOUSLY, GOD WILL CHASTISE YOU IF YOU DON'T … L.R.

- SPORTS AND ENTERTAINMENT ARE THE DEVIL'S OPIUM TO THE MASSES … L.R.

- SPORTS AND ENTERTAINMENT ARE THE DEVILS SUBSTITUTE FOR GOD'S JOY …L.R.

- IF JESUS HAD PREACHED THE SAME DILUTED MESSAGE AS MANY CHURCHES DO TODAY, THERE'S A GOOD CHANCE THAT HE NEVER WOULD HAVE BEEN CRUCIFIED … L.R.

- THE FIRST TIME CHRIST CAME MEN HANDLED HIM ROUGHLY, THE LAST TIME HE COMES HE'LL HANDLE MEN ROUGHEST … L.R.

- THE MAN OF GOD NEEDS TO SPEND MORE TIME BEFORE GOD ABOUT MEN, THAN TIME BEFORE MEN ABOUT GOD … L.R.


And two of my favorites …


- THE WORLD IS NOT IN NEED OF A NEW DEFINITION OF CHRISTIANITY, IT’S IN NEED OF A NEW DEMONSTRATION OF CHRISTIANITY … L.R.

- WHEN THERE’S SOMETHING IN THE BIBLE THAT CHURCHES/SAINTS DON’T LIKE, THEY CALL IT "LEGALISM … L.R.[/b]

R
running2win

he called me to be me.

But can you honestly say that you are all that you could be as a man of God? That's my point.

Can a man trevail in prayer for a lost world without first seeing them face to face? My point is that it is of no use to pray without adding legs to the prayers and setting about the work.

I think we both know that Len's heart on the matter was exactly the same. His point is the same that I'm trying to make. WE ARE NOT WHAT WE COULD BE AS CHRISTIANS. period.

edit: sorry if I seem short or like I have an attitude, I'm in a hurry 'cause I have to run to the airport to pick up someone.

R
Rahman

Bro Robert wrote;
"Because I am just one man. And God never called me to be them- he called me to be me."

--- i agree with this in part in that we all have something(s) unique about us individually that God can use to His work and glory ... But really why He called us all is to be like Jesus ...

[b]Rom.8[/b]
[29] For whom he did foreknow, he also did [b]predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son,[/b] that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Herein lies the rub and is the problem with us ALL ... i shudder to think the long-suffering God has had to endure with my own non-sense after salvation ... We ALL love Jesus and what He's done for us in our initial saving but then as we go further we begin to see that it's really not about our continued use of Him toward our own ends, but vice versa (Matt. 6:33) as we're to become meat-eaters of the Word ... That's when the "oh this is just to hard" complacency, and the attempts at working other gospels more favorable to our own self serving creeps in, and the next thing one knows we've become a part of that self deluded, and self blinded, Church that The Revelation speaks of...

Correction comes, and is only necessary, when we attempt to retard, if not cease, the good work He began in us and is determined to finish, in conforming us into the image of His Son to His use and glory while we're here on earth ...

Once we sign up, we may be allowed AWOL for a period, but eventually the long arm of God will recapture us ... That's why proactively throwing ourselves at His feet begging for mercy is far better than doing so reactively ... But then far to many of us are reactionary ---

R
RobertW

But can you honestly say that you are all that you could be as a man of God? That's my point.

That is a tough question. I know I am not perfect by any stretch. I don't believe I could be doing more for God though. I think I could certainly draw closer to Him; but then again I view ministering to the lost and to the sheep as an expression of my love for God and devotion to Him. I think we need to pray up, prepare and preach the Gospel. It was one of Finney's contentions that folk waited around too much waiting on God to move- whereas man had somewhat to do. I think he was right.

edit: sorry if I seem short or like I have an attitude, I'm in a hurry 'cause I have to run to the airport to pick up someone.

It's no problem. Certainly we are all striving for perfection. We should be pressing towards the mark. Again, perhaps there is too much Finney in my blood, but I just can't sit around and wait for something to happen.

R
Rahman

Whoever asked;
"But can you honestly say that you are all that you could be as a man of God? That's my point."

---This may be a tough question, but it's an easy honest
answer for me ...

"No, i'm no where near the man of God i could, or even should be, and sad to say in some areas still fight against becoming, but by His grace i'm no where near as far away as i once was, and both pray and rely on His power working within me that He'll keep on overtaking me more, and more, in this good work He's begun in me, which actually i can see now ...

Bless God for His grace and mercy, and thru whom i can do all things thru Christ who strengthens even more, the more we surrender to His Word, will and way ...

His yoke really is light ... But i think for many of us it's the thought of putting it on in the first place, then it's continuance of wearing that's our problem ---


R
RobertW

I was looking for one of the moving quotes of Ravenhill's that had made a great impression on me. I have re-shared this story several times. Perhaps some would already know the effect it also had on Ravi Zacharias:

[i]"Among the thoughts that shaped me (Ravi) most was the story Ravenhill told of the notorious British criminal Charlie Peace, who was going to his death on a capital offense. As the minister was reading from the Bible and another book, Charlie Peace asked him, “Do you really believe in such a place called hell?” The minister replied, “Yes.” Charlie responded—and this is the thought that impacted me—“Sir, if I believed what you and the church of God say that you believe, even if England were covered with broken glass from coast to coast, I would walk over it, if need be, on hands and knees, and think it worth while living, just to save one soul from an eternal hell like that!” 2 That struck me. If what we lay claim to on these matters is true, then the dramatic influence in our lives is going to be inestimable. “Even if England were covered with broken glass from coast to coast, I would walk over it.” That is the kind of reality and these are the words that shape one’s call. This was the truth I was going to proclaim.

Ravenhill was a fire-and-brimstone preacher, no doubt about it. When I read him today, I wonder, Will today’s audience really listen to this kind of teaching? But there was a time for him; there was an anointing upon him and a mission for him. And for me, Why Revival Tarries sealed my call to preach and proclaim, and it convinced me that this was a real message. I was not going to shirk from whatever sacrifice was required to take this message to the world. Little did I know that God was going to enable me to do just that."[/i]

It stuns me that there are folk dying in hospitals and nursing homes and slipping into eternity without God or even a Christian to offer them the Gospel one last time. If a man would crawl on broken glass across the country- why would we not drive or walk down the street? There is something just wrong with so much talk about God moving when I hearts seem so far out of step with God's and it would almost be a lite thing just to take a simple step and share the Gospel with the lost and dying.

H
hmmhmm

Here is what David Ravenhill said in an interview and asked about his father

UC: Some consider your father Leonard to be one of the godliest men of this century. What was it like growing up as his son?

DR: I always had a deep appreciation and respect for my father and his ministry. He was a man who lived what he preached. I don’t ever recall a time when he was angry or frustrated. He was always a man of prayer as well as passionate for God. He deeply cared about the spiritual condition of the church and wept over her continually. Even at age 87 he was still rising every night to pray. How could you possibly find fault with that?

UC: What do you think your father would say about the spiritual condition of the Church in America today?

DR: I believe he would describe the church as prayerless, passionless, and far from pure. He would see the church as shallow and self-centered. More conscious of how the world views her than how the Lord sees her. He would describe her as rich and increased with goods and in need of everything.

T
TonyS

It stuns me that there are folk dying in hospitals and nursing homes and slipping into eternity without God or even a Christian to offer them the Gospel one last time. If a man would crawl on broken glass across the country- why would we not drive or walk down the street? There is something just wrong with so much talk about God moving when I hearts seem so far out of step with God's and it would almost be a lite thing just to take a simple step and share the Gospel with the lost and dying.

In one of Wilkerson’s older messages I have he says something to the effect he is tired of hearing about Revival, it has become a meaningless cliché.

As for Ministry, yes why the shotage of laborers? I have heard for some 40 years now “We are there every time the doors are open”, families will drag their sick contagious children to church thinking it is somehow honoring God, never mind the welfare of others. Sort of screwed up! Wouldn’t dream of missing quote “service” yet little burden for the tens of thousands of infirm who can no longer attend “service”. Get’s me sort of worked up, would hate to venture at calling it holy anger?

And then incredibly for some to rank the dedication and consecration based on their attendance at church…. You know, it’s broke down something like the Sunday morning crowd are there to just ease their conscience, the Sunday night crowd another level and then the mid-week crowd you really know are on fire for the Lord ect… sickening.

Perhaps all this is way off topic, the real test is not to be mad at people. Rather to direct our frustration at the spirit of deception, always easy to recognize the error or problems, God help us to seek wisdom to be part of the solution.

As for Ravenhill, or rather us. Learning a life of great balance is critical I think. Is it possible to alienate our target audience, and what then?

Tony S.

R
running2win

No, i'm no where near the man of God i could, or even should be

Neither am I brother but oh how I long to be all that I ought to be as a christian.
- THE WORLD IS NOT IN NEED OF A NEW DEFINITION OF CHRISTIANITY, IT’S IN NEED OF A NEW DEMONSTRATION OF CHRISTIANITY … L.R.

Oh, how I desire from the depth of my heart to be that new (yet we might do better to call the [i]old[/i]) demonstration of what a christian ought to be. I look at the book of Acts and if I am brutally honest with myself I have to realize that they had something that I don't have. I long for what they had and urgently seek God for it. What's the balance? Do I "tarry in Jerusalem until I be endued with power from on high"? Or do I get busy trusting that in God's timing He'll work in my own life that which He worked in the lives of men like Finey and Moody and so forth? Honestly, I have no clue as to what's right in this whole matter. Many times I find myself feeling like a 4 year old saying "God help me for I can't sort through this myself."

R
RobertW

Oh, how I desire from the depth of my heart to be that new (yet we might do better to call the old) demonstration of what a christian ought to be. I look at the book of Acts and if I am brutally honest with myself I have to realize that they had something that I don't have. I long for what they had and urgently seek God for it. What's the balance? Do I "tarry in Jerusalem until I be endued with power from on high"?

You will notice that in Genesis 3 God made His entrance in the [i]cool of the day[/i]. Adam could hear the 'sound' or 'voice' of God coming. That word 'cool' is ruach in Hebrew and it means 'wind' or 'breath'. When the sn begins to go down the air begins to stir as things cool off. When Adam sinned that 'sound' of wind signalling God coming would not be heard again until Acts 2. And it was a MIGHTY rushing wind.

I have observed that God will come when we set about to do two things:

1) Clean out the idols that are in the land (our hearts and lives) and the altars that would provoke God to jealousy (Ezekiel 8, Judges 2).

2) Set about to hedge about with thorns our swept and garnished hearts and homes. This is what God told Adam to do in Genesis 2:15. He was to 'keep' the Garden. This is an attitude, I think. It is a settled determination that nothing is coming into my life that will offend God and drive Him far from me. Nothing is going to provoke Him to jealousy in my life.


When we will finally settle it- God is more willing to give us His Holy Spirit than we are to receive it. If we ask for a fish will He give us a serpent? If we ask for bread- will he give a stone? God will come when we finally decide God; take my houses, take my lands, take my dreams and take my plans, becuase I am placing my whole life into your hands. What ever it takes that I might be[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19951&forum=34&0]The Habitation of God [/url] that is what I am willing to do. Then we will have a revival.

M
myfirstLove

I have observed that God will come when we set about to do two things:

1) Clean out the idols that are in the land (our hearts and lives) and the altars that would provoke God to jealousy (Ezekiel 8, Judges 2).

2) Set about to hedge about with thorns our swept and garnished hearts and homes. This is what God told Adam to do in Genesis 2:15. He was to 'keep' the Garden. This is an attitude, I think. It is a settled determination that nothing is coming into my life that will offend God and drive Him far from me. Nothing is going to provoke Him to jealousy in my life.


When we will finally settle it- God is more willing to give us His Holy Spirit than we are to receive it. If we ask for a fish will He give us a serpent? If we ask for bread- will he give a stone? God will come when we finally decide God; take my houses, take my lands, take my dreams and take my plans, becuase I am placing my whole life into your hands. What ever it takes that I might beThe Habitation of God that is what I am willing to do. Then we will have a revival.

Good word, Robert! I really like that title too, "HABITATION OF GOD"

R
Rahman

Bro Robert you wrote;
"It stuns me that there are folk dying in hospitals and nursing homes and slipping into eternity without God or even a Christian to offer them the Gospel one last time. If a man would crawl on broken glass across the country- why would we not drive or walk down the street? There is something just wrong with so much talk about God moving when I hearts seem so far out of step with God's and it would almost be a lite thing just to take a simple step and share the Gospel with the lost and dying."

--- Brother Pastor who's talking about, and praying for, God moving? ... Who's talking about, and praying for REVIVAL? ... In my circle i can tell you it's only the ones who're doing the work that you speak of, and we are few ... What does it say that out of a congregation of 3,500 one can't even get 30 to do any kind of organized street witnessing? - and that's ministry directed outward from the church, God help you if He calls you to do ministry inwardly to His comfortable Church, chances are if one does it as He wishes your gonna get labeled "critical", "harsh", "legalistic" and any other term describing the annoyance of folk who don't want to be awakened from our slumber ...There is a sense amongst the few i know that the majority is well content to let us do all the work, and that's true, and if one doesn't keep our eyes on that what we do we do for Christ, one can either lash out in anger, or do a Jonah as i initially did when i actually told God out loud after a meeting with my pastor, "Lord, i'm not doing this by myself" ...

It's been my experience that when God goes out of His way to show any of His servants something it's really gonna profoundly change one's life ... You're gonna become weird to other people, even to yourself initially ... You're gonna begin to care about the things He cares about, and that's gonna put you in direct clash with just about everyone else around you ... i had a sister ask me slightly annoyed, "Why do you talk about REVIVAL so much"? ... i answered her back as tactfully as i could, "For the same reason you speak of prosperity so much - it's the desire of my heart" ...

In pondering this threads title about bro Ravenhill's demeanor i thought of ...

[b]Dan.7 [28] - [/b]
"Hitherto is the end of the matter. As for me Daniel, [b]my cogitations much troubled me, and my countenance changed in me:[/b] but I kept the matter in my heart." ...

Then i looked up the words ...

[b]Cogitate:
"To ponder or meditate on usually intently" ...

Countenance:
"Bearing, demeanor, a: calm expression b: mental composure c: look, expression"[/b]

Then i thought of ...

[b]Heb.11 [6] -[/b]
"But without faith it is impossible to please Him: for He that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that [b]He is a rewarder of them that diligently (pain-stakingly) seek Him."[/b]

As you well know bro Robert sometimes God's spiritual rewards to our seeking can be very painful to our humanity/flesh ... i think this sums up for me bro Ravenhill's motives, and his subsequent demeanor ... First off he took Jesus, and what He heard from His word and the mission He placed in his spirit very "seriously" , amongst a Church of Christ ever marginalizing all seriousness in proper spirituality ... i almost sometimes can't believe the degeneration i've seen up close in two congregations, and pastors, that i've known for 20+ years, one Baptist, one Pentecostal ... i've come to the conclusion that (similar to Ravenhill) if i've delivered "words" from our Lord, agonized in prayer over the leadership/assembly of my assignment and REVIVAL, out of some kind of self deluded unctioning of my own, then i'm in need of serious psychiatric help ... Brother Robert you're a pastor, and you know firsthand on a level i praise God for that i don't know, how stiff-necked so many of God's flock can be ... Not many saints like the message(s) (i believe) God has given me to deliver but i'm in a calling dis-associated from any reliance at all on the congregation, not so a pastor, and it takes one who totally relies on our Lord for everything in order to preach to the unsaved that you're on your way to hell without Him, and to stomp on congregational toes when we're wrong ...


Bro Robert you wrote;
"I have observed that God will come when we set about to do two things:"

---And i have observed (scripturally, but i believe soon to be seen by us actually) that God will also come (un-invited) once He's decided that those of His He's sent out with His messages of warning against our laxity mouths are shut, and then He gets to "rebuking and chastisng" we that
he loves (whipping us into shape so-to-speak) ---


Bro Robert you wrote;
"God will come when we finally decide God; take my houses, take my lands, take my dreams and take my plans, because I am placing my whole life into your hands. What ever it takes that I might be The Habitation of God that is what I am willing to do. Then we will have a revival."

--- i could very well be wrong, but i believe we're way past such an opportunity of "pro-active repentance", and are about to experience in "re-active repentance" God's correction of "taking our houses, lands, dreams and plans", because He is toppling our idols that completly block our vision to us actually being The Habitation of God ... We have no willingness whatsoever toward God in our present greed, but i believe many of us will have in our times of need ...

Then we will have REVIVAL! ...

Looking forward to experiencing the day when there are a majority of saints on fire for our Lord in the churches, instead of the few ...

Blessings in our Lord Jesus Christ! :-D ---

R
Rahman


Tony S. wrote;
"As for Ravenhill, or rather us. Learning a life of great balance is critical I think. Is it possible to alienate our target audience, and what then?"


--- Bro Tony if your meaning here of balanced is in the sense of "being as wise as a serpent, and as gentle as a dove" i can see your point ... But really when it comes to me i like full blast Biblically hot preachers and preaching that'll help burn off my dross down here way before i get to glory ...

i'm a very black and white kinda person, i'm either on fire, or i'm not ... So for me the terms "balance" and "Christianity" in the same vacinity set alarm bells off because Christ said that He'd rather me be "hot" or "cold" ... Balance says to me "room temperature", which is way to close to "luke-warm" for me ...

Also when it comes to the "hard" sayings i believe our Lord has any of His servants deliver to we already saved, His "target audience" is never alienated, just all the others in the assembly who are making up the crowd ... As with the parable of the seed thrower, i think
we may be utilized of God to throw the "seed" (I planted, Appolos watered), but it's He who makes it grow in His targeted audience (fertile ground) ...

Blessings in our Lord Jesus Christ! :-D ---


S
sermonindex

hmmhmm posted:

Here is what David Ravenhill said in an interview and asked about his father

UC: Some consider your father Leonard to be one of the godliest men of this century. What was it like growing up as his son?

DR: I always had a deep appreciation and respect for my father and his ministry. He was a man who lived what he preached. I don’t ever recall a time when he was angry or frustrated. He was always a man of prayer as well as passionate for God. He deeply cared about the spiritual condition of the church and wept over her continually. Even at age 87 he was still rising every night to pray. How could you possibly find fault with that?

UC: What do you think your father would say about the spiritual condition of the Church in America today?

DR: I believe he would describe the church as prayerless, passionless, and far from pure. He would see the church as shallow and self-centered. More conscious of how the world views her than how the Lord sees her. He would describe her as rich and increased with goods and in need of everything.

Thank you hmmhmm.
___________________________________________

This may go against the grain of what most of this younger generation believes, but when you've grown up cutting your new-born[again] baby teeth on Ravenhill, with him being a contemporary at that time and with all those from Texas who were talking about stirring up the fallowed ground back in the 60's to the early 80's - the group who followed these men, all dead but David Wilkerson now - then you know why Ravenhill seemed sad.
This great Apostasy was moving in by time he died.
The heretics out-numbered the good men like himself and the others like him of that period of desire for renewal.
He cried out for Prophets and saw nothing but an entourage of false prophets come into the church, that's increased ever since.
I may have said it before - but those who were of that camp from Texas over 30 years ago - had their [u]own Personal[/u] Refreshing and moved on to SERVE GOD - to burn out for Jesus.

I know why Ravenhill was sad. We watched the "church" for over 30 to 40 years become un-recognizable. First Hagin and down from there, to where almost everything or anybody is called 'christian' now. It's got most of us depressed. Most especially these false prophets.
Jeremiah was depressed. Did he need anti-depressants or told he wasn't living in the joy of the Lord?

Those in Texas at that time, were the last warning before the flood of false prophets and heretics took over.

Now, [u]personal[/u] reviving [shaking oneself into the reality of GOD and His Word] is a necessity and possibility to the few who can glean from these Classic Authors.
These Classic Authors are what that last great generation of teachers/preachers grew up on and what made them what they were.
But it was Mainly that they took God's Word and commands very seriously and respectfully - such as Matthew 25.

H
hmmhmm

I think i had know the Lord for three weeks when i heard my first Leonard Ravenhill sermon, I watched "christ magnified in my body"

even as one who had not read my bible through once, not even new testament once.... I knew God spoke through that man, that was the most wonderful thing i had heard in my life, I remember i was watching that video when going to sleep, and my first thought was kind of "what this old grey haird man with funny accent have to say"

I was counting on falling asleep, but I ended up being more awake then ever before, And I think out of all speakers available on Sermonindex, I think Leonard Ravenhill inspired challenged me the most to live a life totally sold out to God. And to realize any other life then that is worthless, his passion and burden and tears can leave no man unaffected i believe, no genuine born again child of God.

The next sermon I watched by him was "what is your life?" and that is the sermon the one i have heard so many times i lost count. And when he speaks truth just comes forth in a convicting and challenging way,

This comp from some Ravenhill sermons that I think shows his passion and burden.
[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=15773]WE NEED GOD[/url]

And I recently was very blessed by this message also, [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=7734&commentView=itemComments]to live is christ ,to die is gain[/url]
I think it should be our daily prayer to ask God to send men with Ravenhills caliber....

Christian

R
Rahman

HE_Reigns wrote;
"I know why Ravenhill was sad. We watched the "church" for over 30 to 40 years become un-recognizable. First Hagin and down from there, "

--- Ugggghhhhhhh ... how well i remember the onset of Hagin ...

i was newly saved when two folks from "the name it and claim it" camp came to work at my employ ... Their antics in 'super-natural" prosperity and healing" turned the name of Christ (and Christianity) into something of a carnivale side show amongst the majority Catholics i worked with ... It was alarming then, but over time i've watched it, especially that straight from the pit of hell properity gospel, creep into Pentecostalism (COGIC) big time, and even in a more masked degree amongst Baptist ...

Makes one really understand the power of "just a little leaven", but praise God that He's all powerful an can/will extract such leaven once His allotted time of His enduring it in "long-suffering" is past

May His Body be at the very door of such extraction ---

R
Rahman

hmmhmm wrote;
"I think out of all speakers available on Sermonindex, I think Leonard Ravenhill inspired challenged me the most to live a life totally sold out to God."

---Aaaaaaaaaaaa-men! ... me too! ... Makes me wish i had an old man (father figure in Christ) like him to spend time with in the things of our Lord ...

1Cor.4[15] -
"For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: " ---

S
sermonindex

hmmhmm wrote:I think i had know the Lord for three weeks when i heard my first Leonard Ravenhill sermon, I watched "christ magnified in my body"

even as one who had not read my bible through once, not even new testament once.... I knew God spoke through that man, that was the most wonderful thing i had heard in my life, I remember i was watching that video when going to sleep, and my first thought was kind of "what this old grey haird man with funny accent have to say"

I was counting on falling asleep, but I ended up being more awake then ever before, And I think out of all speakers available on Sermonindex, I think Leonard Ravenhill inspired challenged me the most to live a life totally sold out to God. And to realize any other life then that is worthless, his passion and burden and tears can leave no man unaffected i believe, no genuine born again child of God.

The next sermon I watched by him was "what is your life?" and that is the sermon the one i have heard so many times i lost count. And when he speaks truth just comes forth in a convicting and challenging way,

This comp from some Ravenhill sermons that I think shows his passion and burden.
WE NEED GOD

And I recently was very blessed by this message also, to live is christ ,to die is gain
I think it should be our daily prayer to ask God to send men with Ravenhills caliber....

Christian

This made me :-D .

Brother, I only disagree with your last line.

I pray that we would pray that God MAKES US ALL of that caliber - and it [b]can[/b] happen over night - If we desire that and are willing to pay the price [self]. Amen it is true. We needn't look to others - just look into [u]HIS[/u] Face. He's no respecter of persons.
You "have" ALL the FULLNESS OF GOD, PRESENTLY WITHIN YOU. ;-)
It's not about us - it's all about Who resides in us. Yes, it can happen over-night. Please believe that.
[b]HE[/b] is LORD.

W
Warrior4Jah

Oh I remember listening to Leonard Ravenhill, so far I remember I was mostly listening to Leonard Ravenhills sermons when I first got here, way back when there was still a section on the forum dedicated to Leonard Ravenhill messages. :-)

Back then I was making my way through the bible for the first time, and God changed me from a careless 'everything what is branded christian [edit]is good[/edit]' to someone who became pretty critical (in the good sense of the word). But, the hardest thing of his sermons and other sermons is that I usually cannot ask the speakers any questions, advice or counsel.

Let God raise up any man or woman doing precisely what God wants! :-) Glory to Him!

R
RobertW

--- Brother Pastor who's talking about, and praying for, God moving? ... Who's talking about, and praying for REVIVAL? ... In my circle i can tell you it's only the ones who're doing the work that you speak of, and we are few ... What does it say that out of a congregation of 3,500 one can't even get 30 to do any kind of organized street witnessing?

I think this is a common problem. The ole' 80/20 rule: 80% of the work is done by 20% of the poeple. I suppose I am grieved most by the fact that it seems so few are in their calling and walking with their cross. Could it be as simple as the people have not truly been born again- therefore they have no heart for God and desire to spend and be spent for Him?

T
TonyS

In all of this I am reminded of Ezra.

Ezra knew full well the danger his people had placed themselves in of the wrath of God. Ezra was grieved even beyond words:

“And when I heard this thing, I rent my garment and my mantle, and plucked off the hair of my head and of my beard, and sat down astonied.” 9:3

So grieved, such sorrow to pull the hair from his body. Whether we speak of leaders in Ministry, in our families, or even in civic or business endeavors learning how to channel frustration and sorrow in productive means is critical. There is that danger of trying to accomplish in the flesh what can only be produced by the Holy Spirit.

We may suppose that Ezra went up to the house of the Lord to humble and consider his own self (to vent- as we may loosely say today). And for sure public notice was soon taken of it. And as one commentator said, to tremble at God’s word is to also tremble at the sins of men.

When this is neglected, submitting ourselves to God what follows is great fear from those around us. For it is possible to brow beat folk into picking up the word, church attendance and the like. Yet what we have effectively done is usurp the Holy Spirit’s leading and guiding unto ourselves. What should be God working in folk to will and do of His good pleasure becomes our working using threats, intimidation and even control.

I must write again, finding a balance in life is healthy, and may we not confuse compromise at any level with balance.

We are not the entire puzzle we are but a piece. To think otherwise in my opinion is to cause unnecessary stress not only for ourselves but everyone with whom we have contact.


C
coops

I know it's a little naughty to not read the whole thread before replying - but I have to go to bed soon and just wanted to say this:

Tucked away nicely in one of the many sermons on this site from Ravenhill is a statement that shocked me out of the sullen and critical attitude I had begun to develop listening to him.

Ravenhill said, (something like), "Do you have times in prayer of unspeakable joy and elation?" (not his words, but to the same effect) "I do. You should. If you have times of deep sorrows for the lost, you should also have times of great joy in Christ - both are yours in Him"

It seems like he showed an unbalanced view of things, to bring balance to the unbalanced perspective in the church. Never give up the joy we have in Christ - not this "joy" that equates to only contentment, but JOY that LOVES and is GLAD... that is indescribable.

Good night from Australia. :-)

R
RobertW

It seems like he showed an unbalanced view of things, to bring balance to the unbalanced perspective in the church. Never give up the joy we have in Christ - not this "joy" that equates to only contentment, but JOY that LOVES and is GLAD... that is indescribable.

The question we then have to ask is, "why does it seem that we (I say 'we' for lack of a better pronoun) often seem to major on the most radical aspects of a person and then wonder why we have come away with distorted views about people?" Sermon titles are important. Why do [i]we[/i] (not everyone I know, just grasping for words) seem to pass over a sermon title like "going weeping and coming rejoicing" (probably a newer addition) for "burning heart" (perhaps an older title)? Are we fixed on just hearing the thrashing or weeping; have we been somehow effected by the way secular news is presented to us?

R
RobertW

What should be God working in folk to will and do of His good pleasure becomes our working using threats, intimidation and even control.

This is true. Even more subtle things happen that by way of showing 'frustration' folk are being driven, say, by a worship leader to get more involved in a worship service. It is not uncommon for this to happen in many places. This is why a person almost has to close their eyes at times and not look at what others are doing. If you can't [i]lead[/i] folk- why try to [i]drive[/i] them? There are times when we must preach on Hell as the Lord leads us- but we also have to know that it is the goodness of God that leads to repentance.

I like something Ron Bailey said about G.W. North. His answer to almost everything was to "recast the net". I believe he is right. What good is it for a fisherman to get angry and curse or a mechanic to get mad and throw his wrench? Keep casting the net- it is our [i]only[/i] real hope.

C
crsschk

Still love this thread ...

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=2884&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]Ravenhill Quotes..[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=6523&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]Ravenhill Quotes 2[/url]

A variety of reasons, but there are some very foundational aspects that launched this site and 'Why Revival Tarries' is a great part of it as was mentioned or alluded to earlier.

[i]Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.[/i] Rom 13:7

I do not know that it is anything more nor less than this. He had a wry wit and often it seemed a great deal of his humor just sailed over the heads of his hearers. At other times and often enough you can hear his voice start to crack before he composes himself, sometimes it just breaks ...

Sure, he often employed a bit of hyperbole to stress a point but if there is a summarizing word from even many of the responses here it seems to be one of 'challenge'. And praise God for that, I think that is what SI is rich in; A challenge to our thinking, our preconceived notions, constructs, what have you, that grand "[i]Have you considered?[/i]".

Not too ironic yesterday that in two successive correspondences the saints had signed off with a variation of;

“[i]looking unto Jesus[/i]”

And I had to reply that every time I hear this now it is always with Len's voice and articulation, intonation, something that just stuck many years ago from one of his messages ... "Keep looking unto Jesus".

The things that have attached themselves to the marrow unaware from this place ...

Lifted from the links;

All time favorite:

"[i]If you are going to get mature in God all the dwarfs around you will criticize and sneer at you and say 'Your trying to be holier than the rest of us, ah?[/i]"

And to my surprise, not a reply away from it, this, which often has come to mind and in all sincerity just yesterday;

[i]I share the view of E.M. Bounds that it takes God twenty years to make a preacher[/i].
L. Ravenhill
Why revival tarries

E
elected

I think Leonard Ravenhill inspired challenged me the most to live a life totally sold out to God. And to realize any other life then that is worthless, his passion and burden and tears can leave no man unaffected i believe, no genuine born again child of God.

Ravenhill was a rare man of God, one of those costly diamonds that radiated the light of God in his life.Challenging, uncompromising,defying the the false gods of izrael in a critical time of the church. Like Jeremiah he lamented for the people of God, like his Master his was a man of sorrows and tears. Broken hearted for the sins of the church his burden was too heavy for him yet he had to bear it alone for the men of his spiritual status were one by one passing away.

Maybe there are very very few men of God today who have such an spiritual insight today to the condition of the church as he had.We are living in the last of the last days before Jesus second coming and the apostasy that Jesus fortold is sweeping millions away from truth of the gosple and the true Shepherd of the flock.

John the baptist didnt seemed like a "happy man" in the desert with all his wierd dress and escetic lifestyle. probably if he lived in our modern times he would have been branded not only by the worlde but especially by those group of 'christians' who beside God worship the idol self: "a lunatic, fanatic or a crazy man who has lost his common sense".

I think Leonard Ravenhill was uncompromising with his message he spoke the truth of God with the love that burns deep like a consuming fire. This love ablaze zealous for the glory of God to return in the temple made him very bold to defy the prophets of baal.The sad thing is that these voices that come out of wilderness and thunder 'repent, repent, repent' and sound the trumpets for a waking call in Zion we seldom hear or pay attention while their are alive; after their death we pay tributte to their lives and works but very few will dare to live their message in our lives.

Ravenhill belonged to another age, may be he belonged to the age of the evangelical Revival of the 18th and 19th century and it was like he traveled forward in a 'time machine' to the post modern 20th century to remind us of the old paths, of the glories of old,that God of the past is the same and unchanged, that what he did with our evangelical forefathers he can do for us today.

In an age of scepticism,shallowness,materialism, pragmatism, relativism and all other ism that disgust themselves to make the gosple watered down and so much void of its substance but stil attractive in its form, a man like Ravenhill sounded like somebody who was walking agaisnt the tide of the spirit of worldliness and apostasy sweeping the evangelical christiandom.

I'm sure that Ravelhill had a deep joy in the presence of the Lord but when he looked to the sad condition of the church his heart would break in anguish to lament the captivity of God's people and he poured out his heart prayers,books and messages.

He was not a lost cuase, just an idealist and romantic of the past revivals. He was a burning light to his generation and its books and messages i'm sure have and will inspire many and by God's grace be instrumental to kindle the same holy fire in us.

R
Rahman

[b]Bro Robert you wrote of G.W. North ...[/b]
"His answer to almost everything was to "recast the net". I believe he is right. What good is it for a fisherman to get angry and curse? Keep casting the net- it is our only real hope."


--- As a fisherman in both realms i find this analogy both appropriate and pertinent, especially in that a short while ago (while pondering my faith walk thus far) John 21:3 popped into my spirit and i heard Peter, when he didn't quite know what else to do, say, "i go a fishing" ---


[b]John.21[/b]
[1] After these things Jesus shewed himself again to the disciples at the sea of Tiberias; and on this wise shewed he himself.
[2] There were together Simon Peter, and Thomas called Didymus, and Nathanael of Cana in Galilee, and the sons of Zebedee, and two other of his disciples.
[3] Simon Peter saith unto them, I go a fishing. They say unto him, We also go with thee. [b]They went forth, and entered into a ship immediately; and that night they caught nothing.[/b]


--- Tho i believe i heard Him say to me way back, "When your ministry takes off it will take a multitude with it", and even in more recent years in continuation of this analogy when i'd get tired and want to quit casting i'd hear in my spirit, "Remember the multitude", the above passage pretty much sums up how i've percieved the last 20+ years of what i believe my calling to be in Him, that of casting out and pulling up empty nets in the dark ---


[b]John.21
[4] But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore:[/b]
but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
[5] Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.
[6] [b]And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.[/b] [7] Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
[8] And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.


--- i know i'm in a place in my Christian life/walk right now that i ain't never been before, that Jesus is about to dawn on me afresh and initially unrecognizable, and to eventually say/do whatever it is that He will do to His jarring my awareness that "It is the Lord"!!! ...

There are some points in the following that have really blessed me ... i won't point mine out but pray that anyone led to read Holy Spirit will bless also with what He identifys to you ---


[b]Matthew Henry Bible Commentary - John Chapter 21[/b]
http://www.apostolic-churches.net/bible/mhc/john/21.html

[b]--- II.[/b] Their agreement to go a fishing. They knew not well what to do with themselves. For my part, says Peter, I will go a fishing; We will go with thee then, say they, for we will keep together. Though commonly two of a trade cannot agree, yet they could. Some think they did amiss in returning to their boats and nets, which they had left; but then Christ would not have countenanced them in it with a visit. It was rather commendable in them; for they did it, (1.) To redeem time, and not be idle. They were not yet appointed to preach the resurrection of Christ. Their commission was in the drawing, but not perfected. The hour for entering upon action was to come. It is probable that their Master had directed them to say nothing of his resurrection till after his ascension, nay, not till after the pouring out of the Spirit, and then they were to begin at Jerusalem. Now, in the mean time, rather than do nothing, they would go a fishing; not for recreation, but for business. It is an instance of their humility. Though they were advanced to be sent of Christ, as he was of the Father, yet they did not take state upon them, but remembered the rock out of which they were hewn. It is an instance likewise of their industry, and bespeaks them good husbands of their time. While they were waiting, they would not be idling. Those who would give an account of their time with joy should contrive to fill up the vacancies of it, to gather up the fragments of it. (2.) That they might help to maintain themselves and not be burdensome to any. While their Master was with them those who ministered to him were kind to them; but now that the bridegroom was taken from them they must fast in those days, and therefore their own hands, as Paul's, must minister to their necessities and for this reason Christ asked them, Have you any meat? This teaches us with quietness to work and eat our own bread.

2. Their disappointment in their fishing. That night they caught nothing, though, it is probable, they toiled all night, as Lu. 5:5. See the vanity of this world; the hand of the diligent often returns empty. Even good men may come short of desired success in their honest undertakings. We may be in the way of our duty, and yet not prosper. Providence so ordered it that all that night they should catch nothing, that the miraculous draught of fishes in the morning might be the more wonderful and the more acceptable. In those disappointments which to us are very grievous God has often designs that are very gracious. Man has indeed a dominion over the fish of the sea, but they are not always at his beck; God only knows the paths of the sea, and commands that which passeth through them.

[b]--- III.[/b] After what manner Christ made himself known to them. It is said (v. 1), He showed himself. His body, though a true and real body, was raised, as ours will be, a spiritual body, and so was visible only when he himself was pleased to make it so; or, rather, came and removed so quickly that it was here or there in an instant, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye. Four things are observable in the appearance of Christ to them:—

1. He showed himself to them seasonably (v. 4): When the morning was now come, after a fruitless night's toil, Jesus stood on the shore. Christ's time of making himself known to his people is when they are most at a loss. When they think they have lost themselves, he will let them know that they have not lost him. Weeping may endure for a night; but joy comes, if Christ comes, in the morning. Christ appeared to them, not walking upon the water, because, being risen from the dead, he was not to be with them as he had been; but standing upon the shore, because now they were to make towards him. Some of the ancients put this significancy upon it, that Christ, having finished his work, was got through a stormy sea, a sea of blood, to a safe and quiet shore, where he stood in triumph; but the disciples, having their work before them, were yet at sea, in toil and peril. It is a comfort to us, when our passage is rough and stormy, that our Master is at shore, and we are hastening to him.

2. He showed himself to them gradually. The disciples, though they had been intimately acquainted with him, knew not, all at once, that it was Jesus. Little expecting to see him there, and not looking intently upon him, they took him for some common person waiting the arrival of their boat, to buy their fish. Note, Christ is often nearer to us than we think he is, and so we shall find afterwards, to our comfort.

3. He showed himself to them by an instance of his pity, v. 5. He called to them, Children, paidia—"Lads, have you any meat? Have you caught any fish?'' Here, (1.) The compellation is very familiar; he speaks unto them as unto his sons, with the care and tenderness of a father: Children. Though he had now entered upon his exalted state, he spoke to his disciples with as much kindness and affection as ever. They were not children in age, but they were his children, the children which God had given him. (2.) The question is very kind: Have you any meat? He asks as a tender father concerning his children whether they be provided with that which is fit for them, that if they be not, he may take care for their supply. Note, The Lord is for the body, 1 Co. 6:13. Christ takes cognizance of the temporal wants of his people, and has promised them not only grace sufficient, but food convenient. Verily they shall be fed, Ps. 27:3. Christ looks into the cottages of the poor, and asks, Children, have you any meat? thereby inviting them to open their case before him, and by the prayer of faith to make their requests known to him: and then let them be careful for nothing; for Christ takes care of them, takes care for them. Christ has herein set us an example of compassionate concern for our brethren. There are many poor householders disabled for labour, or disappointed in it, that are reduced to straits, whom the rich should enquire after thus, Have you any meat? For the most necessitous are commonly the least clamorous. To this question the disciples gave a short answer, and, some think, with an air of discontent and peevishness. They said, No; not giving him any such friendly and respectful title as he had given them. So short do the best come in their returns of love to the Lord Jesus. Christ put the question to them, not because he did not know their wants, but because he would know them from them. Those that would have supplies from Christ must own themselves empty and needy.

4. He showed himself to them by an instance of his power; and this perfected the discovery (v. 6): he ordered them to cast the net on the right side of the ship, the contrary side to what they had been casting it on; and then they, who were going home empty-handed, were enriched with a great draught of fishes. Here we have, (1.) The orders Christ gave them, and the promise annexed to those orders: Cast the net there in such a place, and you shall find. He from whom nothing is hid, no, not the inhabitants under the waters (Job 26:5), knew on what side of the ship the shoal of fishes was, and to that side he directs them. Note, Divine providence extends itself to things most minute and contingent; and they are happy that know how to take hints thence in the conduct of their affairs, and acknowledge it in all their ways. (2.) Their obedience of these orders, and the good success of it. As yet they knew not that it was Jesus; however, they were willing to be advised by any body, and did not bid this supposed stranger mind his own business and not meddle with theirs, but took his counsel; in being thus observant of strangers, they were obedient to their Master unawares. And it sped wonderfully well; now they had a draught that paid them for all their pains. Note, Those that are humble, diligent, and patient (though their labours may be crossed) shall be crowned; they sometimes live to see their affairs take a happy turn, after many struggles and fruitless attempts. There is nothing lost by observing Christ's orders. Those are likely to speed well that follow the rule of the word, the guidances of the Spirit, and the intimations of Providence; for this is casting the net on the right side of the ship. Now the draught of fishes may be considered, [1.] As a miracle in itself: and so it was designed to prove that Jesus Christ was raised in power, though sown in weakness, and that all things were put under his feet, the fishes of the sea not excepted. Christ manifests himself to his people by doing that for them which none else can do, and things which they looked not for. [2.] As a mercy to them; for the seasonable and abundant supply of their necessities. When their ingenuity and industry failed them, the power of Christ came in opportunely for their relief; for he would take care that those who had left all for him should not want any good thing. When we are most at a loss, Jehovah—jireh. [3.] As the memorial of a former mercy, with which Christ had formerly recompensed Peter for the loan of his boat, Lu. 5:4, etc. This miracle nearly resembled that, and could not but put Peter in mind of it, which helped him to improve this; for both that and this affected him much, as meeting him in his own element, in his own employment. Latter favours are designed to bring to mind former favours, that eaten bread may not be forgotten. [4.] As a mystery, and very significant of that work to which Christ was now with an enlarged commission sending them forth. The prophets had been fishing for souls, and caught nothing, or very little; but the apostles, who let down the net at Christ's word, had wonderful success. Many were the children of the desolate, Gal. 4:27. They themselves, in pursuance of their former mission, when they were first made fishers of men, had had small success in comparison with what they should now have. When, soon after this, three thousand were converted in one day, then the net was cast on the right side of the ship. It is an encouragement to Christ's ministers to continue their diligence in their work. One happy draught, at length, may be sufficient to repay many years of toil at the gospel net.

[b]--- IV.[/b] How the disciples received this discovery which Christ made of himself, v. 7, 8, where we find,

1. That John was the most intelligent and quick-sighted disciple. He whom Jesus loved was the first that said, It is the Lord; for those whom Christ loves he will in a special manner manifest himself to: his secret is with his favourites. John had adhered more closely to his Master in his sufferings than any of them: and therefore he has a clearer eye and a more discerning judgment than any of them, in recompence for his constancy. When John was himself aware that it was the Lord, he communicated his knowledge to those with him; for this dispensation of the Spirit is given to every one to profit withal. Those that know Christ themselves should endeavor to bring others acquainted with him; we need not engross him, there is enough in him for us all. John tells Peter particularly his thoughts, that it was the Lord, knowing he would be glad to see him above any of them. Though Peter had denied his Master, yet, having repented, and being taken into the communion of the disciples again, they were as free and familiar with him as ever.

2. That Peter was the most zealous and warm-hearted disciple; for as soon as he heard it was the Lord (for which he took John's word) the ship could not hold him, nor could he stay till the bringing of it to shore, but into the sea he throws himself presently, that he might come first to Christ. (1.) He showed his respect to Christ by girding his fisher's coat about him that he might appear before his Master in the best clothes he had, and to rudely rush into his presence, stripped as he was to his waistcoat and drawers, because the work he was about was toilsome, and he was resolved to take pains in it. Perhaps the fisher's coat was made of leather, or oil-cloth, and would keep out wet; and he girt it to him that he might make the best of his way through the water to Christ, as he used to do after his nets, when he was intent upon his fishing. (2.) He showed the strength of his affection to Christ, and his earnest desire to be with him, by casting himself into the sea; and either wading or swimming to shore, to come to him. When he walked upon the water to Christ (Mt. 14:28, 29), it was said, He came down out of the ship deliberately; but here it is said, He cast himself into the sea with precipitation; sink or swim, he would show his good-will and aim to be with Jesus. "If Christ suffer me,'' thinks he, "to drown, and come short of him, it is but what I deserve for denying him.'' Peter had had much forgiven, and made it appear he loved much by his willingness to run hazards, and undergo hardships, to come to him. Those that have been with Jesus will be willing to swim through a stormy sea, a sea of blood, to come to him. And it is a laudable contention amongst Christ's disciples to strive who shall be first with him.

3. That the rest of the disciples were careful and honest hearted. Though they were not in such a transport of zeal as to throw themselves into the sea, like Peter, yet they hastened in the boat to the shore, and made the best of their way (v. 8): The other disciples, and John with them, who had first discovered that it was Christ, came slowly, yet they came to Christ. Now here we may observe, (1.) How variously God dispenses his gifts. Some excel, as Peter and John; are very eminent in gifts and graces, and are thereby distinguished from their brethren; others are but ordinary disciples, that mind their duty, and are faithful to him, but do nothing to make themselves remarkable; and yet both the one and the other, the eminent and the obscure, shall sit down together with Christ in glory; nay, and perhaps the last shall be first. Of those that do excel, some, like John, are eminently contemplative, have great gifts of knowledge, and serve the church with them; others, like Peter, are eminently active and courageous, are strong, and do exploits, and are thus very serviceable to their generation. Some are useful as the church's eyes, others as the church's hands, and all for the good of the body. (2.) What a great deal of difference there may be between some good people and others in the way of their honouring Christ, and yet both accepted of him. Some serve Christ more in acts of devotion, and extraordinary expressions of a religious zeal; and they do well, to the Lord they do it. Peter ought not to be censured for casting himself into the sea, but commended for his zeal and the strength of his affection; and so must those be who, in love to Christ, quit the world, with Mary, to sit at his feet. But others serve Christ more in the affairs of the world. They continue in that ship, drag the net, and bring the fish to shore, as the other disciples here; and such ought not to be censured as worldly, for they, in their place, are as truly serving Christ as the other, even in serving tables. If all the disciples had done as Peter did, what had become of their fish and their nets? And yet if Peter had done as they did we had wanted this instance of holy zeal. Christ was well pleased with both, and so must we be. (3.) That there are several ways of bringing Christ's disciples to shore to him from off the sea of this world. Some are brought to him by a violent death, as the martyrs, who threw themselves into the sea, in their zeal for Christ; others are brought to him by a natural death, dragging the net, which is less terrible; but both meet at length on the safe and quiet shore with Christ.

[b]--- V.[/b] What entertainment the Lord Jesus gave them when they came ashore.

1. He had provision ready for them. When they came to land, wet and cold, weary and hungry, they found a good fire there to warm them and dry them, and fish and bread, competent provision for a good meal. (1.) We need not be curious in enquiring whence this fire, and fish, and bread, came, any more than whence the meat came which the ravens brought to Elijah. He that could multiply the loaves and fishes that were could make new ones if he pleased, or turn stones into bread, or send his angels to fetch it, where he knew it was to be had. It is uncertain whether this provision was made ready in the open air, or in some fisher's cabin or hut upon the shore; but here was nothing stately or delicate. We should be content with mean things, for Christ was. (2.) We may be comforted in this instance of Christ's care of his disciples; he has wherewith to supply all our wants, and knows what things we have need of. He kindly provided for those fishermen, when they came weary from their work; for verily those shall be fed who trust in the Lord and do good. It is encouraging to Christ's ministers, whom he hath made fishers of men, that they may depend upon him who employs them to provide for them; and if they should miss of encouragement in this world, should be reduced as Paul was to hunger, and thirst, and fastings often, let them content themselves with what they have here; they have better things in reserve, and shall eat and drink with Christ at his table in his kingdom, Lu. 22:30. Awhile ago, the disciples had entertained Christ with a broiled fish (Lu. 24:42), and now, as a friend, he returned their kindness, and entertained them with one; nay, in the draught of fishes, he repaid them more than a hundred fold.
...

R
Rahman

elected you wrote;
"Ravenhill belonged to another age, may be he belonged to the age of the evangelical Revival of the 18th and 19th century and it was like he traveled forward in a 'time machine' to the post modern 20th century to remind us of the old paths"


--- i understand your heartfelt sentiment, but may i humbly say, " i believe Ravenhill was exactly where God placed Him, and wanted Him to be, in the warning and exhortive voice "of one crying out in the wilderness" (tho bro Ravenhill was quick to not call himself a prophet) ...

God seems to call some to hard tasks of warning, even tho He already knows very few if any will heed ... Many a time on SI there've been threads asking "Where are the (true) prophets" ... We've had em', but generally they don't make "the big time" because they're not false ... Usually you'll find em' in smaller settings, insignificant to the greater Body, shunned and/or deemed way over the top even in their smaller settings ... i think nobody really likes a true prophet of God, because by the time God trot's em out He's already done a major sin purge on em', in ability to carrying His warning message about the greater sin at large ... The other thing is the intimacy level with God becomes so great until one begins to feel what God feels, which is wondorous when He's happy, but grieviously burdensome when He's not ... That's what i believe bro Ravenhill had to deal with, God burdened Him with such, and sent him forth to "sticks and stones" ... It's like a saying i once heard, "I don't mind working for God, it's what He'll have me do that concerns me" ...

i thank God for sending bro Ravenhill, and Ravenhill his integrity in fulfilling his "hard" task ... All of us who know of Ravenhill will never be able to say "Lord i didn't know" ---


C
ccchhhrrriiisss

Hello...

After reading many of the comments, I understand some of the sentiments about Ravenhill (even if I disagree). I met him shortly before he died, and he was not a depressed old cynic. He was a man burdened with the knowledge of the condition of the modern Church, yet few listened.

Given the amount of "feelgood" messages out there, I would rather listen to a "bad" or "critical" Ravenhill message than many of the messages preached in churches today. I get something from his messages -- something that pounds upon the heart of my inner man. Yet I could attend many churches and leave without a care in the world -- a world going to Hell in a handbasket!

I think that Brother Ravenhill's messages are far more needed now than ever before.

:-)

R
running2win

I think that Brother Ravenhill's messages are far more needed now than ever before.

Well said Chris.

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