BSBKJVWEBYLTASVBBEWMBT4TDBY|HymnsMusicDonate
Menu
Home › Forums › Judgementalism will eventually KILL this forum
General

Judgementalism will eventually KILL this forum

S
sermonindex

[b]THIS IS LENGTHY, BUT IT'S FROM MY HEART... SO I HOPE Y'ALL READ IT AND UNDERSTAND WHERE I AM COMING FROM[/b]

There is a serious problem that is happening on this forum, and I'm going to deal with it very frankly.

Over the past few months I have noticed a disturbing trend on this forum. I have been informed numerous times that I am not a Christian because I do not believe a certain way about a certain doctrine. The following is a list of topics over which I have been told I am not saved...

1) I dont believe 100% in Calvinism... therefore I am not saved.

2) I do not agree that tithing is a New Testament teaching... therefore I am not saved.

3) I do not agree that Christian rock music is of the devil (tho everyone here should know by now that I do not in any way promote the Christian music industry!)... therefore I am not saved.

4) I have found myself in need of forgiveness for sins committed since being saved (i.e. I'm not perfectly sinless)... therefore I am not saved.

5) I do not agree that drinking a glass of wine is a sin worthy of hellfire... therefore I am not saved.

6) I do not believe that tongues are the initial evidence of being filled with the Spirit... therefore I am not saved.

....etc etc etc. This is not an exhaustive list, but you get my point.

On each of these topics I have been told either publicly on the forum, or in a PM that I must not be a Christian.

While I have talked about at length on this forum that certain forms of judgement are commanded of the believer, we are not in the position to judge the heart of anyone. But I see that happening on this forum at an alarming rate lately.

Some have PM'd me and asked why I havent been as active on here. This is why. I find it frustrating, I find it isolating, and at times I've even been hurt by it... and it takes a lot for me to admit that someone has hurt me.

A long time ago, when my wife and I came out of the deception that is called Word of Faith, we both prayed together one night that God would lead us thru the Holy Spirit into all truth, just as He promised He would do.

I told God I didnt want any fluff... I didnt want what Christian pop culture has to offer... I didnt want to live up to what other peoples ideas of what a Christian is... I only want the truth. Nothing but the truth.

What this usually means for me is that I find myself going against the grain... especially among Christians. The Church has done a really good job of adopting a lot of traditions and rules that have no foundation in the Word of God. Several times on here I've promoted a book called "Pagan Christianity", and I still recommend everyone get their hands on it.

Over the past week or so I've been involved in a thread about drinking wine. JulianSims called me out yesterday and claims to have left this forum because I did not tow the party line about wine. Instead of going along with the tradition view that drinking a glass of wine is a gross sin... I've been pointing out that the Bible NEVER says that.

So my brother's response was:

Yet over hundreds of posts i've read from you, Julian wants to convey that smoking and saying it's ok is not ok. Julian wants to also convey that drinking is not ok. Julian again wants to convey that so call christian rock music is not ok. Julian once again wants to convey that to much sports is not ok either. All these things i've mentioned are of the world and not of God. And i've read many of your post's. Hard to tell the difference if your in the world or in God or have one foot in the world and one foot in God, then using scripture to argue ( i mean debate ) one's point or to say there's nothing in scripture to back such and such. There are different levels of spiritual maturity but when one adheres to the things of the world and the things of God both, then we are no better than the world itself. We are to come out and be seperate from the world.

This was uncalled for.

Now, I dont want to turn this into a "bash Julian" thread... he's my brother, and I love him. But this is a perfect example of what happens when someone speaks the truth even when it goes against what most Christians have been taught to believe.

First off... I am very open about the fact that I am not perfect. I do sin. I do need to go to God on a regular basis and repent and be made clean again. Anyone who says they arent in the same boat is a liar, according to 1 John.

I dont hide the fact that I am not against the moderate consumption of alcohol. Why am I not against it? Because scripture is not against it. I am against "strong drink" and drunkness. Why? Because scripture is against it.

I will align myself with scripture, not a pastor (if that pastor doesnt agree with scripture).

Now, on this topic, some have come against me claiming that by my not condemning a glass of wine then I am promoting drinking to those who may stumble spiritually. Not at all. Paul defended the eating of meat that had been sacrificed to alters... but you wouldnt say that he was doing so at the expense of spiritual stumblers. You would say he was teaching truth.

Julian took me to task because I have been open about the fact that in the course of a 12 month period I may smoke 2 or 3 cigars... usually when camping or deer hunting. While I believe strongly that a smoking "habit" is a sin because the smoker is allowing the cigarette to rule and reign (a god), I do not believe that smoking 2 or 3 cigars in the course of a year is a sin. I'm not promoting smoking, I'm just being open and honest about what I believe.

Julian took me to task because I refuse to come out and say that rock music simply as a style of music is of the devil. Therefore, I'm of the world (which I believe is code for: not saved). Nevermind that I have had much to say about the pathetic shape that Christian music as a whole is in...

Let me switch gears... I say all that to say this... I am very open about myself here for several reasons.

I am who God made me to be. I will not put on a false pretense for everyone. I will not put on a Sunday morning smile and tell everyone how wonderful my life is. While God has blessed me with a pretty good life, the fact is... I'm Krispy, y'all. What you see is what you get, and I aint pretending for anyone.

You know what I find? I find that unbelievers, and people that I minister to in real life away from this forum appreciate that about me. I dont come off as some "head in the clouds" dream weaver of a believer.

I've know many Christians who put on a facade of having it all together and being this spiritual giant... only to see them fall. A friend of mine is a Baptist preacher at a small church out in the country. He's lost his entire congregation because while he was coming off as some super Christian... he was stealing from the building fund.

A guy I knew growing up was always coming around and preaching to my dad... he was Super Christian... but now he's in jail because the whole time he was putting on this act for everyone... he was raping his two daughters.

Last year I stopped by a local tent meeting after football practice... had on kaki shorts, sweaty t-shirt and a ball cap... and a preacher there mentioned to me after to the service that he would love to lead me to the Lord. I gladly told him I was already saved, and he responded that if that was the case then he expected me to be in a shirt and tie for the meeting the next night. I didnt. But guess where this man, who judged me by how I was dressed, is today... jail. Seems he was molesting a couple of 13 yr old girls in an orphanage he helped run.

Soooo... I may be a little too open and honest for some of you folks on this forum... but one thing I am not... and thats a fake.

I'm not comparing myself to those men, I am merely pointing out that what you get from me is honesty. If I dont agree with something, I'm going to say so even if it goes against popular belief. Truth is truth, period.

One thing I have never done on here is talk about the ministries that the Lord has allowed me to be a part of. Main reason for this is because I dont want to come off as boasting. But I think that I need to discuss this a little because I believe it is utter foolishness to judge me or anyone based on my beliefs concerning a couple of minor subjects. Especially on a forum like this where no one really knows anyone beyond what they write here.

Julian has come against my involvement in sports. What my brother does not realize is that this is a ministry God has called me to. I've lost count of how many young men God has allowed me to lead to Him. Some may have found the Lord after they aged out at my level of football, but my influence on them pointed them in the right direction.

Usually about 30% of my players come from stable, two parent homes. Thats it. The other 70% come from broken homes, "blended" families", etc. They either dont know their dad, or dad is living in another state, or dad is in jail. There is no good male role model in the home. This is my mission field, and football is the tool that God has given me to reach these kids.

So before I get blasted for being involved in sports... why not find out why I do what I do? You might find yourself railing against God.

On Saturday mornings I have a Bible study with inmates at a local prison. These guys have had several ministers do this with them in the past, but they seem to connect with me really well... an guess why... because I am open and honest with them. I'm not putting on any pretenses with them, I'm not a fake. And God has given me such a love for these guys, and it comes thru loud and clear. And one of the guys in the Bible study is in prison because he broke into [b]MY HOUSE[/b]. (He also had other warrents for which he was convicted as well). I led him to the Lord last year.

Twice a month I haul free baby food to a crisis pregnancy center. There is a local church that has a warehouse where they ship in baby food from Gerber, and then distribute it out. My wife will locate different crisis pregnancy centers, set up a time, then I'll hook up my trailer to my pickup and I haul some food to them. This is another ministry God has given us.

By the way... God allows me to be involved in all these things because he has blessed my business, and has allowed me to be self employed.

Once a month, sometimes more, my two older boys and I volunteer at the rescue mission feeding the homeless. We try to make a point of doing on Christmas day too.

And on top of all that, I am an elder in a group of elders overseeing a small network of house churches... and all the ministry that goes along with that.

Again, I hate talking about these things because I know that someone will see this as boasting. I'm not boasting, I'm merely trying to point out that you can not come onto this forum and judge the heart of another believer based on what you know of them on here.

Over the past few months I've been painted as a worldy, fleshly believe who is a drunkard and glutton because I refuse to go along with rules and traditions that are not scriptural. Funny thing tho... it's exactly what the religious crowd did to Jesus because He didnt do what they thought He should.

So how about we quit acting like fools, and stop sitting in judgement over our brothers and sisters?

Should we judge doctrine? Absolutely!

Should we judge actions? Absolutely!

Should we judge anothers heart? No!

We should all look inside and judge our own hearts.

I'll end this by saying that even tho I've been hurt, kicked, and beaten at times on this forum for standing up for what believe God has revealed to me as the truth... I still love you all.

And I know that I know that God saved this imperfect man. I have no idea why. But He did. And His Spirit lives inside of me, and He is guiding and directing my life. And He is leading me into all truth. I'm not there yet, but I know I'm on the right road... and boy, it's a narrow one.

Krispy

S
sermonindex

[b]BUMP[/b] (sorry!, but the forum is moving fast this morning, and I wanted to be sure everyone reads this. I think this is important)

Krispy

M
makrothumia

Thanks Krispy,

I'm not ashamed to call you brother. May His grace be richly supplied to you, and may the pain from these interactions provide that perfect work that wisdom is after. Here is a quote from a poem in the front of my bible.

I walked a mile with pleasure
She chatted all the way
but left me none the wiser
for all she had to say

I walked a mile with sorrow
and ne're a word said she
but O the things I learned from her
when sorrow walked with me

makrothumia

S
sermonindex

Thanx, bro. I dont want whatever hurt I have experienced to be the focus here. I want all of us to understand that we hold to many many beliefs that just arent found in scripture... and we need to seek what God says, and not what man says God says.

I guess truth is my only point. And love for the brethren, not judgementalism.

A good example of this is there is a member of this forum who attends Joel Osteen's church. I rail against Osteen pretty hard, yet this brother on this forum is truly one of my favorites to converse with here. I love him, and he loves me, even tho at times we definately dont see eye to eye, especially concerning his pastor.

I love this brother! I dont agree with him on some things, but that doesnt prevent us from fellowshipping one with another.

That poem is great, I think I will jot that down in my Bible as well. Thanx for sharing that.

Krispy

S
sermonindex


KrispyKrittr wrote:

Should we judge doctrine? Absolutely!

Should we judge actions? Absolutely!

Should we judge anothers heart? No!

We should all look inside and judge our own hearts.

Hi Krispy, I don't know you too well because I'm new to this forum. Your right we cannot judge others only their actions.You said we should judge our own hearts but the apostle Paul said:

1 Corinthians 4:3
3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.


I just want to leave you with this one verse:

[color=0000FF]Psalm 119:165Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.[/color]

We need to be open to what the word says and if that person is wrong be willing to be open to discussion as the Lord leads you. If anyone is not open to what the word says the word says they do not love the law. People cannot judge you or you them but we must be open to the word of God. Praying for us all that we have love for one another.

S
sermonindex


Bless you bro. I'm sorry you've been having a hard time. It's character-forming though, and that shines through.


Also, if I may observe, your leading post is part of your spiritual ministry here, as part of the body on SI (in case you don't realise that).

Thank you for caring about us. :-D


I hope maybe I'll get to meet you next year, if you're willing.


S
sermonindex

I hope maybe I'll get to meet you next year, if you're willing.

If we have another revival meeting like last month's, I am hoping to be there. :-)

Krispy

S
sermonindex

Hi Krispy, I don't know you too well because I'm new to this forum. Your right we cannot judge others only their actions.You said we should judge our own hearts but the apostle Paul said:

1 Corinthians 4:3
3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

While of course I agree w/ Paul, I think my point was more along the lines of what Christ said about motes in the eye. We need to remove the logs in our eye before we can remove the sliver from our brothers.

And I have a lot of logs! lol...

Welcome to SI, by the way.

Krispy

C
consecrateme

Brother Krispy,
Thank you for your honesty. It is such a blessing to have brothers like you in this forum. I felt every word i read on this forum as coming from a transparent heart. May God continue to bless you and use you and your family for his glory!!

Bless you,
c

S
sermonindex


KrispyKrittr wrote:

While of course I agree w/ Paul, I think my point was more along the lines of what Christ said about motes in the eye. We need to remove the logs in our eye before we can remove the sliver from our brothers.

And I have a lot of logs! lol...

Welcome to SI, by the way.

Krispy

AMEN! I get misunderstood alot, Im a very open person.

Thanks for the welcome! :-)

S
sermonindex

Heyyy brother Krispy
I have not been following the post, I just spotted it and read yours. I love your heart man, just telling it how it is and doing it with love. Can I suggest something bro, go out on your deck and have a nice big cigar :) I hope you feel the love brother, there is more of you out there than you think, keep on truckin and following His lead , I know you do and will..............Appolus

E
Everett

I thank you for your honesty and I see your heart. I haven't peaked into the whole drinking thread yet so I don't know what ruckus happened over there. Definitely there is a line where one comes to while judging and it does more harm then good. Sometimes we can't see the difference between judging and arguing. I hope that you don't leave this forum because there are good things that come out of this too. You are not obliged to respond to people that relentlessly judge and criticize. We are here to edify and build up not to tear down and destroy. I'm glad that you came to the conclusion to still love us, forgive us and to humbly see yourself as a mere vessel in which God's spirit dwells. That takes much strength. God Bless you. Although I have some comments regarding to what you wrote and I will write them as far away from judging as possible because we may sometimes feel like we are being judge when we are not and sometimes we try to convince and argue a point with someone when we are actually judging but this whole negative connotation that has been put on judging is improper and need to be balanced and weighed by the word of God. I don't think many people including myself know exactly what judging entirely is. Sometimes we get judging mixed up with correcting, rebuking, reproofing and preaching against something false which is not judging. Anyways here are my comments:

you said: "A long time ago, when my wife and I came out of the deception that is called Word of Faith, we both prayed together one night that God would lead us thru the Holy Spirit into all truth, just as He promised He would do."

I am not a part of the word of faith movement but what did God reveal to you how it was a deception?

You said:

"I do not agree that drinking a glass of wine is a sin worthy of hellfire... therefore I am not saved."

Although I don't even drink wine I still do believe that drinking wine just as a drink not to make you drunk isn't a sin. It is a sin whenever you have become a slave to it. Jesus says that he who sins is a slave to sin. Many people don't have all the many varieties of drinks that we have in America such as all the juices, pops, hot drinks and cold drinks. Some people all they have to refresh themselves are wine and water. For us to drink wine instead of all the other drinks shows some kind of tie to that drink in which it does something to you, it makes you feel a certain way so you are inclined to it. So I would say it is in the category of the all things permissible but not all things beneficiary or are good because they might master you.

You said:

"Paul defended the eating of meat that had been sacrificed to alters... but you wouldnt say that he was doing so at the expense of spiritual stumblers. You would say he was teaching truth."

Paul did indeed say that if what you drink or eat causes your brother to stumble you are sinning although drinking wine or eating food sacrificed to idols or eating unclean meat isn't a sin in and of themselves but if it causes your brother to stumble you are then sinning against Christ and I think that many Christians who have the faith and conviction of God that it is okay to drink wine sin because there weak brothers see them drinking and they mistake them for getting drunk and having a good time so they go and do it themselves saying if my big brother can do it and stay saved then so can I.

You said:

"Julian took me to task because I have been open about the fact that in the course of a 12 month period I may smoke 2 or 3 cigars... usually when camping or deer hunting. While I believe strongly that a smoking "habit" is a sin because the smoker is allowing the cigarette to rule and reign (a god), I do not believe that smoking 2 or 3 cigars in the course of a year is a sin. I'm not promoting smoking, I'm just being open and honest about what I believe."

Truly I don't know how you can smoke and still operate as a Christian because of the intense evil connotation that is on it based upon the media, the society and the majority of unbelievers who do it but that is the same thing for a person that looks at pornography. How can anyone who looks at pornography operate as a Christian when even the society calls it wrong? People are probably easy to condemn you in that area of smoking but I know my sins and they are no different from smoking. Now you don't believe smoking is a sin rather the habit of smoking is a sin but how do you say only 3 cigars this year and not go on into 4 or 5 or 6 cigars? Is smoking something that is a luxury for you that you get to do and regulate so that you don't over do it? God said not to love the world neither the things that are in the world. I know that Charles Spurgeon smoked a cigar every now and then and that is between him and God. This is between you and God because it could be a sin but then again it could not be but now that many of your brothers know that you consider it okay to smoke in moderation then they could say to themselves okay then I can do it too. This would be a sin unto you and cause your brother to stumble because they would say why just smoke cigars? Why not cigarettes? Why not marijuana? Why not cocaine or crack? If as long as you smoke cocaine in moderation or 3 times a year is it still not a sin? You see where I am going? But overall we will know you by your fruit and if you don't produce the fruit of the spirit than your smoking cigars isn't a primary factor anymore for a person to prove you don't have the spirit but the lack of fruit in your life.

I hope I have shed some light onto your situation. I am too in that category of not being perfect. I need God's forgiveness daily. I pray that you will not be offended in your faith in Christ and that no one or no thing would hinder you in your love and devotion for Christ. Amen

M
MSeaman

Krispy,
Great post. I'd believe I'm not saved before I ever thought that of you. Bless you brother.

I
InTheGarden

Thank you, Brother Krispy, for your post. Like others have said, I appreciate your openness. It isn't often that you find men of God willing to rebuke lovingly when a rebuke is needed! Thank you!

May the Spirit guide us into His truth!!

Mikah

S
sermonindex

Everett... thank you for your kind and brotherly response. If we would all respond as you have I think a lot the things I'm addressing on this thread would be resolved.

Very quickly, let me say that I agree with most of what you had to say. You are correct about what Paul said concerning causing others to stumble. Let me say tho that many take this too far and wont even address this topc in the light of scripture because they're afraid that they might cause someone to stumble by being honest about what scripture actually says. So they try to reason that Jesus turned the water into grape juice, etc. See what i mean? But absolutely you are correct... we should be willing to sacrifice our liberty for the sake of our brethren. "The greatest of these is love." Thats the message there.

As to smoking, I think since I was raised in a state where for the longest time the two biggest exports were textiles and tobacco, my attitude toward that topic may be a little different than those from other areas... I don't know. Smoking as a habit is wrong, scripture is clear that it becomes a god. You compare tobacco to porn, but I think that's a stretch. Clearly porn is a moral and purity issue that cuts to the core of the spirit. Enjoying a cigar as a luxery when sitting around a camp fire is not the same thing.

Marijuana? Hmmm... not the same thing. Clearly the only reason to smoke pot is to get high. It doesn't go well with meat (...well, brownies and doritos perhaps). It is mind altering, and we are clearly commanded in scripture to exercise self control... and you cant do that and smoke pot. Not to mention that smoking pot is disobedience to civil authority... another sin.

As for what brought us out of WOF.... oh boy, long story. I've gone over that a number of times on this forum. If you cant find any threads where I discuss this, let me know and I'll go over it again.

Thanx again, brother!

Krispy

I
iansmith

I've experienced the same issues on this forum, and I'm just about spent. I have enough drama in my life not to have to deal with internet-drama.

S
sermonindex

I've experienced the same issues on this forum, and I'm just about spent. I have enough drama in my life not to have to deal with internet-drama.

Yea, brother Ian... I think I'm in that place as well, but not willing to give up and quit like some are.

Stick around bro.

Krispy

S
sermonindex

Julian took me to task because I have been open about the fact that in the course of a 12 month period I may smoke 2 or 3 cigars... usually when camping or deer hunting. While I believe strongly that a smoking "habit" is a sin because the smoker is allowing the cigarette to rule and reign (a god), I do not believe that smoking 2 or 3 cigars in the course of a year is a sin. I'm not promoting smoking, I'm just being open and honest about what I believe.
Krispy, you know that I love you regardless. Our only one differences is that when one receives the holy Spirit they will speak in other tongues. But I would never say to you that you are not saved. We are saved by grace thru faith.

If I may say this, and please don't look at this as judgmentalism.

When we open up to others about our personal indulgences, we are opening ourselves up for criticism. Because not everyone is like you or I. Not everyone can understand why. To the one who was saved from a life of alcoholism, and for you or I to say that an occasional drink is not a sin, to him it is a sin. Who has the problem? We do! We need to be silent on certain issues for the sake of loving him.

They say that we should be an open book, that is tricky and dangerous. The only one's that we should be that open too is our LORD and our wives/husbands.

For example, we wouldn't serve the meat of the word to babes. Then why try to serve our liberality to those who have not this understanding?

Romans 14:22 Hast thou faith? [b]have it to thyself before God[/b]. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

To me, the romance of hunting and having a cigar sounds sporty.

There are only two mind sets here. One is coming from a religious mindset, the other is coming from a deliverance mind set. To the legalistic person, I could care less if they fall flat on their face, because they need to fall down so that the LORD can have mercy on them, a proud look and lying tongue He hates.

The other who has been delivered from substance abuse, I literally shudder if I find out that I had anything to do with his fall. For this cause do I keep my liberal actions to myself and I give thanks before the LORD.

I love you Steve!

S
sermonindex

When we open up to others about our personal indulgences, we are opening ourselves up for criticism. Because not everyone is like you or I. Not everyone can understand why. To the one who was saved from a life of alcoholism, and for you or I to say that an occasional drink is not a sin, to him it is a sin. Who has the problem? We do! We need to be silent on certain issues for the sake of loving him.

Comp... absolutely I agree with you. When I was open about those topics I fully expected criticism and disagreement. What I am concerned about is statements that a "true Christian" would never believe this or that, or participate in this or that.

See, then you're judging someone's salvation on something other than what scripture says. For instance, most everyone here knows I defend the KJV, and reject modern versions. However, one thing I have never done is say someone is not saved if they dont agree with me on this issue. And I consider this to me a very important issue.

But the fact is... we are not saved by which version we read. I have many brothers and sisters who are strong believers who read the NIV. I was saved in an NIV church.

See what I mean?

I will have to disagree that there are topics we should be silent about. Nothing in scripture is off limits. Even this is a tightrope at times, we can not let an untruth (drinking a glass of win is a sin no matter what) be propogated. Now, the way I have discussed it here may be open for debate... but an untruth is an untruth no matter how good it sounds.

But for me, the debate was not about whether a Christian should or should not drink... it was about man-made rules that are not found in scripture. I'm sure it comes across to some as defending drinking, but thats kinda hard to avoid. Some people are just going to misunderstand no matter how clear I am. It should never prevent us from talking about truth.

And the truth is... scripture never suggests that a glass of wine is sinful. There are clear prohibitions against drunkeness and strong drink... and warnings about the abuse of wine. But never suggests that moderate, responsible consumption is a sin.

Anyway, I appreciate your response bro, and you know I love you too.

Krispy

E
Everett

Well, we all learn sometimes by trial and error so I have learned from the recent past to not appear as being "judgmental" for the sake of the other person who is or maybe in need of encouragement. I mean the people we talk to maybe 100% of the time we don't even know them and we still have the guts to label them as not saved. I mean if it is evident you can do that in a kind way and in response to the other persons inquiry but my take on it is how does it feel if someone you don't even know tell you you are not saved?

So I thought cigars are big cigarettes. Either way smoking anything is detrimental for your health but then again just living in this polluted environment is unhealthy. I guess all I can say for smoking is that as long as it doesnt master you, be a stumbling block to a christian or become a god (something you put before God) which if you smoke without doing these things I guess it would be alright but this is extremely hard from my perspective because to take food for example somethings I make food a god or a idol and put it before God because it is not only sustenance to strengthen your body but it is also a type of pleasure and any type of pleasureful activity such as smoking and eating can be over done like we have gluttons and drug addicts for example of those that over do stuff. BUT AGAIN I SAY IT IS VERY HARD TO MODERATE THESE THINGS BECAUSE OF THE FLESH. IF YOU CAN DAILY CRUCIFY THE FLESH AND WALK IN THE SPIRIT THEN THIS CAN BE DONE. I wonder if the old testament prophets, saints and priests ever smoked anything of some kind that wasn't off limits as it is today in our society which is good for the regulation of crime and violence.

The reason I related porn with cigars is that people will be quick to judge you for smoking cigars 3 times a year or more while they may be looking at porn once a month not by choice but by temptation and think that smoking cigars is a greater sin than adultery in the heart. It is probably obvious that you smoke since it is not a secret sin like fornication or masturbation but it is mostly done out in the open so you are more open to say that I smoke cigars 3 times a year. One question that popped up in my mind was that if you smoke only 3 cigars a year then why not go for none? But what matters the most is if you are obeying God's commands. That is for you to figure out cause I can't see your heart whether all you have done listed in the other thread was done in love or for self recognition. I guess we got to lay our all on the altar and God will consume up everything that is not right. Whether cigars stays or goes, God will decide but you will have to obey.

Yeah, I don't remember what thread it was on but I will look. Please do send me a link for the thread page or just the category it is in and the name it is on.

Okay, God Bless

S
sermonindex

The things that people used to believe in are staggering. I remember when people used to believe that if you drank Tea or Coffee, your salvation was to be questioned. A woman who cut her hair had a Jezebel spirit. These are taboo's and superstitions, one translation translates superstitions as doctrine of devils.

I do know what your saying Krispy about truths and untruths. However, people will only believe what they have been taught. It only takes a severe thrashing of the holy Spirit to knock these things out of us to realize the actual truths of God's word. Basically one would have to leave their present organization and go back to square roots of Christianity with bible in hand and the Holy Spirit to lead. Otherwise all we will always have here on this site is the flesh(obeying the letter of the word) warring against the Spirit(obeying the quickened Word)

S
sermonindex

However, people will only believe what they have been taught. It only takes a severe thrashing of the holy Spirit to knock these things out of us to realize the actual truths of God's word. Basically one would have to leave their present organization and go back to square roots of Christianity with bible in hand and the Holy Spirit to lead.

Someone inquired of me on this thread earlier about how and why the Lord led my wife and I out of the WOF movement. Compliments, you just said it right there. We abandoned the institution in favor of reading the Word and following the quickening of the Holy Spirit. It's as simple as that.

I stopped reading every book the christian peddler stores had... and read the Bible. The only other book I used was a Matthew Henry commentary... which I still utilize on a daily basis.

God is truth, and every man a liar.

There is definately a place in the church for teachers. Scripture tells us this. But it also tells us that in the last days men will "heap upon" themselves teachers... and will be led astray. No time in history has this ever been true like it is today.

I think that if someone was totally ignorant of Christianity, and western Christian "pop-culture", and simply picked up a Bible and read it cover to cover... and applied it to their life... they probably wouldnt look or act anything like most Christians I know, myself included.

Krispy

M
Miccah

Stay strong.

A wise man once told me that if everyone agrees with everything you do, your doing something wrong.

The ways fo the world even affect us who long to be away from the world.

Let me suggest Psalm 6 for you. The group "Sons of Korah" sing this Psalm beautifully. I turn to this Psalm when I feel like David, and the world is against me. This will be in NIV wording for you, since I know that it is your favorite :-)

[u][b]Psalm 6 (NIV)[/b][/u]

[i]O LORD, do not rebuke me in your anger
or discipline me in your wrath.

Be merciful to me, LORD, for I am faint;
O LORD, heal me, for my bones are in agony.

My soul is in anguish.
How long, O LORD, how long?

Turn, O LORD, and deliver me;
save me because of your unfailing love.

No one remembers you when he is dead.
Who praises you from the grave?

I am worn out from groaning;
all night long I flood my bed with weeping
and drench my couch with tears.

My eyes grow weak with sorrow;
they fail because of all my foes.

Away from me, all you who do evil,
for the LORD has heard my weeping.

The LORD has heard my cry for mercy;
the LORD accepts my prayer.

All my enemies will be ashamed and dismayed;
they will turn back in sudden disgrace.[/i]


This is not intended to call anyone here your enemy. The enemy is of and by the world.

Your brother in Christ,

Chirstiaan

H
HisDaughter

Krispy,

I have observed these threads for a long time before I started posting, and you have been an encouragement to me many a time regardless of if I was involved in the thread.

I rarely find these threads edifying, and get very frustrated at the lack of fellowship, encouragement, or edification when there are so many arguments, doctrinal debates, and judgmental comments. Sometimes I wonder why I bother reading the forums because they bring me down more than they build me up. What a shame when you think about what this site is intended for...

But then there are some exceptions; folks who have a heart for God and his pure word, and are blessed to share only what the word says without pretending to be someone else.

Bless you brother for being so open and forthcoming about who you are and what you believe.

Matthew 11: 18-19 says: For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners. But wisdom is justified of her children.

You can only be who God made you to be and walk in the calling to which He has called you. People can draw their conclusions about you based on the mote that they believe is in your eye (even if it never was there) or they can judge you in the way that the word of God show us to: by your fruit! God bless you and keep you brother!

Jude 24:25
Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

S
sermonindex

Krispy, I am going to be honest with you and I said earlier when I went on this board that I was going to speak out more which is something I do not often do all the time like I should. So far I even had one person on this board call me a man I guess because I don't roll over and play dead anymore, who knows.

Anyhow there are health risks in smoking and your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost. You were bought with a price and you are therefore to glorify God in your body and in your spirit which are God's.

Here are some health facts you should know:

http://quitsmoking.about.com/od/cigarspipesandsmokeless/f/CigarHlthRisks.htm


C
ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi glorytoglory...

So far I even had one person on this board call me a man I guess because I don't roll over and play dead anymore, who knows.
Please understand that I didn't call you a "man" as an insult. I simply have a habit of referring to everyone as a "brother" and, on occassion, I have accidentally referred to some women as "brothers" and some men as "sisters." I apologize. I didn't comprehend that you would become so offended by it, but please don't mistake this "slip of the tongue" as anything more than a mere accident.

Once more, I offer you my sincere apologies.

:-(

S
sermonindex

Anyhow there are health risks in smoking and your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost. You were bought with a price and you are therefore to glorify God in your body and in your spirit which are God's.

I appreciate your concern, sister. In case you were unaware, I am a fitness fanatic and well aware of the health risks. Not to dismiss you (cuz I'm not), but wood smoke from a camp fire is more hazerdous to my health than a couple cigars in one year. We burn wood in our house, and I camp quite often.

But anyway, I do appreciate your response.

The issue at hand is not whether I smoke a cigar or not... it's man's rules added to the gospel. It's like debating the Civil War. Most immediately bring up slavery. While that was the topic around which the issues swirled, the Civil War was NOT about slavery. See what I mean?

Krispy

S
sermonindex


ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
Please understand that I didn't call you a "man" as an insult. I simply have a habit of referring to everyone as a "brother"
:-(


Ive never heard of calling a woman brother but if you say so sister LOL! just kidding ;-)

I accept your apologies but I do not think it wise of you to call a woman brother anymore than I think a woman should call a man sister.

Didn't you see my avatar top lefthand corner?

Are you saying you call everyone brother and you don't pay attention to avatars???:-(


C
ccchhhrrriiisss

Hi Sister glorytoglory...

Ive never heard of calling a woman brother but if you say so sister LOL! just kidding

I accept your apologies but I do not think it wise of you to call a woman brother anymore than I think a woman should call a man sister.

Didn't you see my avatar top lefthand corner?

Are you saying you call everyone brother and you don't pay attention to avatars???

No, I didn't notice your avatar. I don't tend to look at the avatars at all; I usually look at the name. Since you haven't included a name, I reverted to my habit of referring to individuals as "brothers."

And no, I am not saying that I call [u]everyone[/u] brother. I usually respond generally to names, but that can be confusing too. I have wrongly attributed genders to certain names in the past too.

I wouldn't try to "read between the lines" and come to a conclusion that just doesn't exist, though. It was a simple mistake on my part, and I apologize for referring to you as a "brother" instead of a "sister." I think that we can safely say, however, that we are all part of the "brethren."

:-)

S
sermonindex


ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
Hi Sister glorytoglory...
Ive never heard of calling a woman brother but if you say so sister LOL! just kidding

I accept your apologies but I do not think it wise of you to call a woman brother anymore than I think a woman should call a man sister.

Didn't you see my avatar top lefthand corner?

Are you saying you call everyone brother and you don't pay attention to avatars???

No, I didn't notice your avatar. I don't tend to look at the avatars at all; I usually look at the name. Since you haven't included a name, I reverted to my habit of referring to individuals as "brothers."

And no, I am not saying that I call [u]everyone[/u] brother. I usually respond generally to names, but that can be confusing too. I have wrongly attributed genders to certain names in the past too.

I wouldn't try to "read between the lines" and come to a conclusion that just doesn't exist, though. It was a simple mistake on my part, and I apologize for referring to you as a "brother" instead of a "sister." I think that we can safely say, however, that we are all part of the "brethren."

:-)


Apology accepted brother! :-)

S
sermonindex

See that?? This is what this forum ought to be! Even when we disagree... but all too often everyone wants to be Elijah and bring down hellfire and sulfur.

...and then say they "did it in love".

No no, this is what love is.

Krispy

S
sermonindex

well, I broke my agreement with myself to not get involved in this thread.

THIS IS THE MOST ABSURD THREAD EVER IN THE HISTORY OF SERMON INDEX.

I will just reference the first two pages of this other thread... if any one gets it fine, if not let this fun puffing up and pitty party continue... start with my comment on page 1 then the reply on page 2 then my next reply...

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=20038&forum=35&start=110&viewmode=flat&order=1]https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=20038&forum=35&start=110&viewmode=flat&order=1[/url]

S
sermonindex

... whatever, Jim. Some get it... some dont.

Krispy

C
crsschk

Hold your peace brother ... Lay down the sword.

There is a great need of ceasing from strife and insinuations from all that it applies to.

Conduct. Suffer yourselves an ability to keep silent. Might we try and just keep this one thing before us ...

The Lords Testimony

M
Miccah


jimdied2sin wrote:

THIS IS THE MOST ABSURD THREAD EVER IN THE HISTORY OF SERMON INDEX.

I don't know about the MOST absurd thread on the index. I thought the post about Jesus not being God was the most absurd :-)

Christiaan

S
sermonindex

Mike... was that for me? ...cuz I was doing a lot of tongue biting right then.

Krispy

S
sermonindex


KrispyKrittr wrote:
...for me, the debate was not about whether a Christian should or should not drink... it was about man-made rules that are not found in scripture. I'm sure it comes across to some as defending drinking, but thats kinda hard to avoid. Some people are just going to misunderstand no matter how clear I am. It should never prevent us from talking about truth.

And the truth is... scripture never suggests that a glass of wine is sinful. There are clear prohibitions against drunkeness and strong drink... and warnings about the abuse of wine. But never suggests that moderate, responsible consumption is a sin.

Just started reading this thread. That would be my stance also Bro Krispy.

Don't suppose there'd be any point in quoting this on the drinking thread though.


In Him

Jeannette

S
sermonindex

Kristy wrote: And I know that I know that God saved this imperfect man. I have no idea why. But He did. And His Spirit lives inside of me, and He is guiding and directing my life. And He is leading me into all truth. I'm not there yet, but I know I'm on the right road... and boy, it's a narrow one.

moe wrote: While I could fall on either side of some those issues, I won't here on this post, but I have touched on them in other posts. But I do want to say that I enjoyed reading your post and to also say I know why God saved you. If I might use a bit of the shorter catechism. He saved you and me both to glorify God and enjoy HIM for eternity. If you are judged by anyone, it should be by your local church body. Our culture has omitted Church disciple as it was visable in the early church from scripture. I'm not saying anything you do is worthy of judgment by the church because I don't know you. I would like to say the definition of judging is not merely making a statement about an issue or speaking what one believes is truth. Judging is when you make a call that he/she is sinning, arrive at the proper penalty for that sin and administer the penalty, that's when it becomes judgment. If speaking truth was judging then the Apostle Paul and all the Prophets of the Bible and the true Word preaching Preachers/Prophets today are sinning every Sunday from the pulpit, so that's not judging in my understanding. Thank you for allowing HIM to do a work in you and allowing you and giving the strength and provision for you to do your ministry and use your gifts that HE has given you. I too, like yourself still sin sometimes and I ask forgiveness regularly for it. My life is not sinless, but I do sin less, than prior to receiving the converted heart by HIM, much less. I too have some ministries. It is not those ministries that saved me, but a regenerated heart that HE gave me, because of what Jesus did at the cross, and HE put a new SPIRIT within me that gives me the desire to be pleasing to HIM. It is HIM that works in us both to will and to do HIS good pleasure.
God Bless
moe_mac
8-)

S
sermonindex


Compliments wrote:
The things that people used to believe in are staggering. I remember when people used to believe that if you drank Tea or Coffee, your salvation was to be questioned. A woman who cut her hair had a Jezebel spirit. These are taboo's and superstitions, one translation translates superstitions as doctrine of devils.

I do know what your saying Krispy about truths and untruths. However, people will only believe what they have been taught. It only takes a severe thrashing of the holy Spirit to knock these things out of us to realize the actual truths of God's word. Basically one would have to leave their present organization and go back to square roots of Christianity with bible in hand and the Holy Spirit to lead. Otherwise all we will always have here on this site is the flesh(obeying the letter of the word) warring against the Spirit(obeying the quickened Word)

Having been brought up very strictly teetotal I remember the first time I set foot in a pub alone - it was scarey! The reason was that my car had broken down and could see no other building for miles where I might get help!

I was amazed (not kidding!) that the people in the pub turned out to be really normal, kind helpful folk!

Wonder if an atheist feels that way if he sets foot in a church?

But the Lord has done a lot in my life since then...

Blessings

Jeannette

I
iansmith

Will there be kittens in heaven? I say yes! Who wants to disagree and start an arguement? (I'm just kidding, please don't reply).

S
sermonindex


iansmith wrote:
Will there be kittens in heaven? I say yes! Who wants to disagree and start an arguement? (I'm just kidding, please don't reply).
Sorry for ignoring your plea, but couldn't resist :-P. There will be cats (and probably kittens) in the new creation, though I don't know about heaven.

It says in Romans 8 that the creature (= creation as a whole, including cats?) will be delivered from corruption to share in the glorious liberty of the children of God.

In mediaeval times there was apparently a big argument on how many angels could dance on the head of a pin! :lol:

Jeannette

S
sermonindex

It is not those ministries that saved me, but a regenerated heart that HE gave me, because of what Jesus did at the cross, and HE put a new SPIRIT within me that gives me the desire to be pleasing to HIM. It is HIM that works in us both to will and to do HIS good pleasure.

Amen... is because He saved me that I am even able to do anything good in this life. I'm not saved because I work, I work because I'm saved.

Love ya, mac

Krispy

S
sermonindex

Will there be kittens in heaven?

I hate cats, so do you really want my opinion?? lol

I know there will be some good coon dogs up there tho... God is a dog lover. I mean, after all, dog spelled backwards is... God. (At least it is in English. I dont know about other languages, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's true in all languages!!)

I cant help it... sometimes my redneck logic comes out. Sorry about that! lol

Krispy

S
sermonindex


KrispyKrittr wrote:
Will there be kittens in heaven?

I hate cats, so do you really want my opinion?? lol

I know there will be some good coon dogs up there tho... God is a dog lover. I mean, after all, dog spelled backwards is... God. (At least it is in English. I dont know about other languages, but it wouldn't surprise me if it's true in all languages!!)

I cant help it... sometimes my redneck logic comes out. Sorry about that! lol

Krispy

Sorry to disappoint you but the Bible says, "Without are the dogs..." So it seems they are specifically excluded :-P

Isn't it nice to have some comic relief after all the heavy stuff!

Jeannette

H
HisDaughter

by jimdied2sin on 2007/11/15 13:03:51
well, I broke my agreement with myself to not get involved in this thread.

THIS IS THE MOST ABSURD THREAD EVER IN THE HISTORY OF SERMON INDEX.

I will just reference the first two pages of this other thread... if any one gets it fine, if not let this fun puffing up and pitty party continue... start with my comment on page 1 then the reply on page 2 then my next reply...

Jim (I hope I've got the name right!) I don't know you or Krispy from Adam, but all your post proved was that you have a personal issue with Krispy. Who knows, perhaps there are personal issues between the two of you. (This makes me think of Phillipians 4:2 "I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.") Perhaps if there are personal issues between the two of you they should be worked through without littering the forums with links referencing other differences of opinions. And I do encourage you Jim to let your differences rest, and to be in one mind as that would be more glorifying to God than links to pages where you are having differences of opinion with Krispy.

What this forum SHOULD BE is a place that believers who feel condemned or judged can come to be encouraged in the Lord by the brethren who are of one mind in Him. I do not think this thread is absurd, I think it is indicitave of abuses that have been going on in the forums, and a chance for others to see what the results look like in one man's life. And Krispy is certainly not the only casualty here, I have been hurt deeply by words from some saints on this site, and have almost stopped using the forums as a result. We are to be building each other up in the Lord, not striving to tear each other down!

I have had the great pleasure of meeting and getting to know several folks from this forum, and the only constant that I have found is that they are not as holy as they tout themselves to be on these threads, and that they are as much in need of God's grace as I am in my wretchedness. Nobody on here should be throwing stones. We are all of one body and should move and work together as such.

Of course that is not to say that I do not thank the Lord every day for those saints who I just referenced, and their faith and trust in Jesus as savior. Rather just noting that all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. There is no grace in kicking someone while they are down or by adding insult to injury. Yes, we are to admonish one another, and to encourage and to rebuke when there is sin. But so many things are said on these threads almost daily that go beyond that. Personal convictions are just that: personal. If someone holds a different view on a non-salvitical issue, that is for God to work out. We cannot be the Holy Spirit for anyone! As we seek God, He will refine us, and will work out anything that needs to be worked out.

To GOD be the glory in all things!

S
sermonindex

Thank you for that. I too was grieved at Jim's words, but it's better coming from a newcomer who doesn't know the people involved and has no personal axe to grind.

That said, maybe we'd best leave things there.

Love in Him

Jeannette

S
sermonindex


KrispyKrittr wrote:
Anyhow there are health risks in smoking and your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost. You were bought with a price and you are therefore to glorify God in your body and in your spirit which are God's.

I appreciate your concern, sister. In case you were unaware, I am a fitness fanatic and well aware of the health risks. Not to dismiss you (cuz I'm not), but wood smoke from a camp fire is more hazerdous to my health than a couple cigars in one year. We burn wood in our house, and I camp quite often.

But anyway, I do appreciate your response.

The issue at hand is not whether I smoke a cigar or not... it's man's rules added to the gospel. It's like debating the Civil War. Most immediately bring up slavery. While that was the topic around which the issues swirled, the Civil War was NOT about slavery. See what I mean?

Krispy


Hi Krispy, Our family likes camping also. We have camp fires in our back yard all the time. We try to be safe and not get to close to the smoke ect. There are some things that can be prevented but surely not all like you said.

Cigar smoking has other risk factors though than just your lungs if you visit that link I gave you again. I just wanted to let you know that but I'm sure you are already aware since you said you are into fitness ect.. There are other things that we christians do that are unhealthy that may be causing us way more physical harm than what your doing. Whatever we do we should honor God in our bodies and in our spirit and try to avoid those things we know are harmful when at all possible.

You know that if you mention these things like drinking wine and smoking cigars you are going to get a response from others :-).

S
sermonindex

Krispy is highly thought of here, and people are more likely to take to the ideas of the "in crowd", even if they oppose the very purpose of this site.

Perhaps you could have taken some time to get to know me or understand why I wrote what I did before publically assigning motive to my writings? Or you could have asked me in private if you had a concern.. as you suggest that I do?

Blessings to you in Christ either way

- Jim

S
sermonindex

I think it is indicitave of abuses that have been going on in the forums, and a chance for others to see what the results look like in one man's life.

my point was to show that this one man that everyone is rallying around does the same things he accuses others of. it is difficult to communicate on hte internet when we feel strongly without coming off harsh sometimes.

Anyway, I am exiting this thread as fast as I came in.

In Christ - Jim

S
sermonindex

Anyhow there are health risks in smoking and your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost.
I work in a Special Care Home where half the men here smoke. I am bombarded with it every day. Every time without fail when I turn the corner the smoking room door flies open and *POOF* I am holding my breath till I get away from it. We have a smoking by law in our city that requires everyone to smoke 10feet away from the building. Is this adhered to? absolutely not! Smoke is every where, it doesn't matter what angle I am at, it finds me. In other cities, it's the smog, pollution, etc.. What exactly does the Apostle mean don't pollute the temple of the holy Ghost? It's too late, we're already polluted.

OR was he speaking of a different type of body?

S
sermonindex

Will there be kittens in heaven?
Jack Van Impe was heard saying that your pet might be in the rapture.

At a theatre near you! :-P

P
pastorfrin

Holiness: It's Conditions

No man imagines it is possible to live the holy life if he is resolutely keeping sin in his life, something in his habits, his home, or his business. We know that these things grieve the Lord. We excuse them, and holiness is never perfected, and we lack the grace and loveliness of character which ought to be the testimony to the power of our Lord because we have not yet begun to be determined to renounce the hidden things of.darkness and to put out of our lives the things that are unlike our Master. Do we desire the holy life? Here are the conditions. Conviction He gives. That we are to respond to by the faith that renounces evil, puts away sin, abandons the life to Him. Holiness is not realized by my endeavor, but by His working in me, when I have given Him His chance. May God lead every one of us not merely to conviction, but to the faith that renounces the things He disapproves, and surrenders to Him all that is His by the indwelling of His Spirit.


G. Campbell Morgan

A
awakenwithin

Brother and sister Please stop and think what we are doing. If you want to talk about a subject fine, but when you bring names in you are gossiping and tearing a brother down. This is not biblical way to deal with a hurt.

Please read and apply to those who need to. For me this has been life changing in these few weeks, seeing the great importance to why Jesus say these things.

A Message that Tim Referred to by Ken Sande on Church Discipline:
1. http://www.tucsonsovgrace.org/pages/index.php?pID=575&PHPSESSID=e2c883abded018938cd0c21aed2d3f1

Look up..the main principles from the "Peacemaker" book by Ken Sande to help in dealing with Conflict Resolution in a Biblical way. This how we should be DOING IT>>>>>


But I must beg all, whenever we are angry with another brother and sister lets be biblical.Stop gossip. STOP!!! STOP and GO TO HIM> Frist and ALONE..

WE HAVE NOT DONE THIS IN THESE POST> GO MAKE IT RIGHT>

MAYBRE you have misunderstood a brother? who is one to speak in a wrong way,, GO TO HIM>>

"If your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault, between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, that every charge may be established by the evidence of two or three witnesses. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. And if he refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector."
-Matthew 18:15-17

“When I first entered upon the work of the ministry among you, I was exceedingly ignorant of the vast importance of church discipline. I thought that my great and almost only work was to pray and preach. I saw your souls to be so precious, and the time so short, that I devoted all my time, and care, and strength, to labor in word and doctrine. When cases of discipline were brought before me and the elders, I regarded them with something like abhorrence. It was a duty I shrank from; and I may truly say it nearly drove me from the work of the ministry among you altogether. But it pleased God, who teaches His servants in another way than man teaches, to bless some of the cases of discipline to the manifest and undeniable conversion of the souls of those under our care; and from that hour a new light broke in upon my mind, and I saw that if preaching be an ordinance of Christ, so is church discipline. I now feel very deeply persuaded that both are of God – that two keys are committed to us by Christ: the one the key of doctrine, by means of which we unlock the treasures of the Bible; the other the key of discipline, by which we open or shut the way to the sealing ordinances of the faith. Both are Christ’s gift, and neither is to be resigned without sin.”
- Robert Murray M’Cheyne

What is Biblical Correction in the Body of Christ?
There has been many times over and over we come to this. People say anything against us, or we say towards someone else the wrong way. We go behind there back, or email or prayer against them in from t of others. I am guilty as I am sure many us are.
Looking at Matthew 18..
these are just the notes I took from this sermon
http://www.tucsonsovgrace.org/pages/index.php?pID=574

I am seeing that When we go a brother or sister with correction it is a gift if done in a right way, when done wrong it is a sin, and bring pain and hurt to the body.

- When a brother sins against us, we are to go the them alone..

Please lets do it the bible ways. This seems to the most saddest thing when do not obey the bibles ways. So lets encourage each others, to go first to the person. Lets stand up against this brothers and sister. If a person come at us saying something about someone lets be quick to point them to go to that person and speak with them. Don't LISTEN!! Tell them to go to that person and if the person don’t listen then they may come back. Let help the body by not LISTING

are we not Guilty? Of going behind others back and speaking about them? Don't we know how hurtful this is to the body? Don't we know this not love at all? loving the body my beloved when we going behind others to tear them down is not love. I have done this am I guilty? May God help me to speak with pure lips at all times. So this dear sister came by tonight to say she was sorry she heard a person belittle me telling to careful, saying I was off. Now this sister has something towards, me. She went behind my back to tell others, yet never told me. When we do this beloved we only bring greater broken to the body of Christ. Awake Beloved this is wrong, and it must hurtful to many. God say go to them alone.

We are called to love one another, but how can we love when we are tearing each other down? We most not let sin destroy us. Let go to each other.

When we fail to go we come to all kind of false ideas of that person. I ask the question how many times have we thought someone meant this or that, and when you get all the fact you are WRONG. I know I have been many times. Lets be wise and ans ask lots of questions first.
Misunderstanding do come, that is why we are to go to them first and alone.. Lets be wise and truly love one another. When speak against another behind there back, it is not love.

When a person see another in sin the most loving thing we can do is to go to them, with a loving and gentle spirit to show them hey you are off.
It is Gods way of using the body to kill a sin that could grow bigger. So when we don’t go we fail to express our love for them.
- But we must go with first looking at self, log in own eye. and with a humble spirit. We need to go with a humble spirit and we need have a humble spirit when another comes at us. are we willing to expect the corrections?
- We need Gods grace to be humble.
- We need a right picture of Sin. Sin is evil wicked the thing that brought Christ to the Cross. Sin is no small thing. Sin is huge. Sin is what brake fellowship, when we are unwilling to obey and turn from sin. When you want to be right. We are blind to our blindness we need each other to show us, where we are getting off.
- What lies do we believe that we are unwilling to go and tell another their sin?
- its unkind
- God will change them
- Its risky
- I am I willing to take the chance of losing a friend, to more loving and show them where they are off.

Think on this, Jesus Christ came to the world to point out Sin.
James 1:9
when bring a brother back from sinning cover many sins...- it is seen as compassionate and kind to go and bring correction to a brother.

But why alone? How often do we follow this?
Do we go to the person first?
I need to repent of not going to them first.
Or not going to a brother who is in Sin.
It say in Gal 6.. if brother in sin, he who is spiritual , to correct with gentle spirit?

-Gods order is we go first to our brother alone..

If we don’t repent, or listen then we go to get others.

It seen has a case Prov 9:8
porv 29:5
Rebuke better hidden love

Peace makers- say that they see as someone is in great need and are going to save them. They take the risk. Our love is not deep if we are not willing to go and bring correction when a brother has sinned towards you, or you see on the path of sin. You are no help to them, if they blind are about to walk in the water and you say nothing. We are blind. We need each to point out our sins.

If they don’t listen to others, then to the Church.
If they don’t repent then we see as unbelievers


In Christ

A
awakenwithin

"I know it is hard to ask forgiveness when you know that you have been wronged by another person." Brother, what bitterness and anger is in your heart? Never have I never seen any post by whom you have said that if son't do this you are not saved, this way you took,. I am sorry you have missunderstanding, I think it will be best to go and talk alone with these brothers. Do we need to this letter? No not at all, it between and a brother.
"It is true that in your letter or post I sensed an attitude of judgment that is not
good for a believer to have. Unfortunately it is very normal when conflicts arise that
Christians go to attacking each other on moral grounds as if they had declared a Holy War. What often is behind these conflicts is misunderstanding and even different directions in God's calling, like Paul and Barnabas. On the
mission field we know there are hundreds of cases where fellow workers go to fighting and
cutting down one another just because of a personality conflict. This is where the grace of God really needs to be spread on thick, because the Devil loves to see us hurting one
another's reputations and ministries."
Be careful brothers and sisters what we are agreeing to and talking about. You have made claims about some brothers without knowing them. Be careful what we are saying..


"Instead, we need to all look inside and see our own serious faults - we need to take the LOG out of our own eyes. "I imagine that the Lord looks at his people much as I see totterers in a nursery. Each child is so consumed with his own
interests and desires that there is endless struggling, fighting and crying! They value their own happiness so much that there is not the slightest interest of making others happy.
When a conflict arises within the church it really is an opportunity for ministry to
others, but we so often blow it and exaggerate the issues at hand.Who wins when Christians accuse each other of evils beyond
what they actually have done? Satan is the accuser and we without knowing it become
his helpers! The world mocks a church that claims to have God's love and yet spends
so much time tearing each other down. How sad!"

But on the other hand when we do handle issues as God would have us, we are a shining light to the world. Everyone else faces conflicts as well, but when the see love, appreciation and forgiveness within the Body of Christ it is an
attractive thing! We shouldn't strive to
humiliate a brother or sister by what has offended us - often we are off base in our
judgements anyway. SO maybe alot of this is missunderstanding and look how we are accuses a someone, when in the end is most likly
misunderstanding? why then do we go shooting them with both shotgun barrels?"


" We need to keep other's good in mind during
any conflicts and try not to spread accusations that will run down the entire reputation of God's people. In my opionin, only outright heresy, going against the gospel of Christ, immorality or financial
misappropriation should be censured among the believers. Issues like yours where you sensed pride, were offended by words and so forth should never go beyond dealing with person to person. We will never iron out all these wrinkles, since as we try to work on one we make a few more, right? Instead we need to fix our
eyes on Jesus, love each other and walk in humility of purpose. Be content that the
Lord is working in this man's life as well as in your own. Guard your heart against
personal offenses as they are many."

“Run from temptations that capture young people. Always do the right thing. Be
faithful, loving, and easy to get along with. Worship with people whose hearts are
pure. Stay away from stupid and senseless arguments. These only lead to trouble,
and God's servants must not be troublemakers. They must be kind to everyone, and they must be good teachers and very patient. Be humble when you correct people who oppose you. Maybe God will lead them to turn to him and learn the
truth. 2Timothy 2:23-25 CEV)


On base of Holiness, there is nothing wrong with speaking truth you may agree, but the Lord say you shall be HOly as He is HOLY. WE are called to hate sin, even if you love it, do not the things of the World. This a matter of do you want to die and deny yourself or keep your ways, Christ say to give it all and die to all. It isn't a matter of what we think we die to all, to fix our eyes on Christ, We are be HOLY and Hate sin. Why because we love God, and when we sin he don't get the Glory. It all about him
I too ask are we willing to go to the cross and die, willing to be wrong. We can't see all our sins, that why we need each other, to help us. We need to be humble. I talk with a friend today, a couple of weeks ago I brought somthing up to her I was worried about, she got mad and said I was wrong, well today she said you know God showed I was just fighting to keep my own way thats way I was upset at you. Don't fight God, Let grow to more like him.

In Christ
charlene

A
awakenwithin

Holiness: It's Conditions

No man imagines it is possible to live the holy life if he is resolutely keeping sin in his life, something in his habits, his home, or his business. We know that these things grieve the Lord. We excuse them, and holiness is never perfected, and we lack the grace and loveliness of character which ought to be the testimony to the power of our Lord because we have not yet begun to be determined to renounce the hidden things of.darkness and to put out of our lives the things that are unlike our Master. Do we desire the holy life? Here are the conditions. Conviction He gives. That we are to respond to by the faith that renounces evil, puts away sin, abandons the life to Him. Holiness is not realized by my endeavor, but by His working in me, when I have given Him His chance. May God lead every one of us not merely to conviction, but to the faith that renounces the things He disapproves, and surrenders to Him all that is His by the indwelling of His Spirit.


G. Campbell Morgan


thank you brother

H
HisDaughter

Perhaps you could have taken some time to get to know me or understand why I wrote what I did before publically assigning motive to my writings?

Brother Jim, please forgive me if you took this as an attack on your person. Indeed I do see through this thread and the one you referenced that there is something other than "brotherly love" going on, and only wanted to encourage you both to let any differences be resolved and to love one another. I never intended to put you on the offense.

The bulk of what I wrote was (I thought) in tune with the original post and thread, and not at all directed toward you. (Perhaps I should have divided my post better). Rather I was speaking of my observations in general. When I wrote of the abuses in these forums, I certainly did not mean to single you out as I wrote those sentiments. I had many many examples in mind, of which you were not a part.

I have not been here from the beginning, but if I were to guess, I would say that the heart behind the forums on this site was to be a community of believers who are encouraging one another in the faith, and driving each other towards Jesus as we intend to run the good race; seeking God, desiring to know Him more, and helping others as God allows us to along the way. (Or if you are in my shoes, taking advantage of gleaning any and all wisdom which is in abundance on here in the hearts of many saints) It would be a sad thing indeed if debates, arguments, and hard feelings were in greater supply on these forums than love.

God help me to walk in the way that He intended me to.

C
crsschk

was that for me? ...cuz I was doing a lot of tongue biting right then.

No brother, it was not, the posts had just crossed at the time.

Krispy is highly thought of here, and people are more likely to take to the ideas of the "in crowd", even if they oppose the very purpose of this site.

You are mistaken and are not helping matters here at all. There is something to be said for longevity in this forum and that means there is much that has taken place in the ensuing years, much that has escaped anyone's grasp that has not been involved throughout.

This is not about setting one up above another or worse [i]setting[/i] one against another, anyone who wishes to purpose this here will be removed.

I am asking those who do not want to hear it to hold their peace, consider whether they truly know what they are speaking of, have amassed all the evidence and then most importantly prayed whether it is even of any benefit to bring it forth. This must cease.

[i]The Lords Testimony[/i]

This thread will be locked.

This discussion is archived and closed to new replies. Start a new discussion to carry the subject on.
Archived
First
1 of 57 posts
Last

Everything we make is available for free because of a generous community of supporters.

Donate