Evangelism

Outside of the gospels, wherein Jesus Christ Himself directly commissions the disciples in evangelsitic types of endeavors, is there any other New Testament exhortations to evangelize? Not implied, but clearly stated?

Paul says copy him in 1 Cor 4:16, and 1 John 2:6 says copy Jesus. Paul and Jesus went fishing for men and doing good, all for the glory of God. Jude vs 22-23 says "Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear- hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh." I encourage evangelism, I think that's one of the most loving things we can do for people (I also evangelize as God directs). It is surprising to then read in Rev 22:11 "Let him who does wrong continue to do wrong; let him who is vile continue to be vile; let him who does right continue to do right; and let him who is holy continue to be holy." That Scripture seems a little odd to me. (I'd appreciate any insights myself)

The commands in the Gospels should not be treated as "only for the early church" without good cause, but if you want other verses:Acts 1:8But ye shall receive power after the Holy Ghost is come upon you; and ye shall be witnesses unto Me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth."Romans 1012 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich unto all who call upon Him.13 For "whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?15 And how shall they preach unless they are sent? As it is written: "How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the Gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"16 But they have not all obeyed the Gospel. For Isaiah saith, "Lord, who hath believed our report?"17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God.2 Timothy 41 I charge thee therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at His appearing and His Kingdom:2 preach the Word; be instant in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.James 519 Brethren, if any of you err from the truth and one convert him, 20 let him know that he who converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.(It's talking about turning believers from sin to save them from spiritual death, but the situation isn't that different with the non-believers)Jude20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,21 keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. 22 And on some have compassion, making a difference;23 and others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire, hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.As mentioned above, Paul also exhorted his readers to imitate him as he imitated Christ; both Paul and Christ did quite a bit of what we might call "evangelism."I think the emphasis is more on preaching the Word and discipling people, not making quite as sharp a distinction as we do today between preaching to believers and preaching to non-believers.edit:As for the calling or lack thereof needed for evangelism; I do believe there are some specially called to the duty, but I also believe every mature believer should have the knowledge, faith, and courage (from faith) to preach the Law and the Gospel in the open air. Not that they have to do so, but the reason for them not doing so should not be lack of knowledge, lack of faith, fear of men or lack of fear of God. I could go into verses supporting public preaching of the Word (for evangelism and other things), but I think I'll refrain from quoting the whole Bible in every post :)

but for all Christians to go out on the streets and proclaim Christ, some being in sin, others not even knowing Christ, others even speaking out of a wrong spirit, I must first ask for clarification, are you of the opinion that those who continue (I know that's not your word if I've misinterpreted your words I apologize) in sin, and those who do not know him ARE Christians?John 17:3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent. Also,Philippians 117The former preach Christ out of selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing that they can stir up trouble for me while I am in chains.[1] 18But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. 19Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, for I know that through your prayers and the help given by the Spirit of Jesus Christ, what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance.Paul is pleased that people are preaching Christ to make trouble for him. That is deffinitly not the right motivation...butThe important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.

Given this is not the case, but IF there were NOTHING save the command of Jesus to evangelize, would that not be enough? Maybe I'm missing your intent in asking, if so Sorry...

Just wondering... isn't sending out 100's of copies of the Revival Hymn- evangelism? isn't having this site to spread the true gospel considered evangelism? Or is evangelism only considered to be public speaking? If so, there are many who might not be capable of this.We all need to do the best with what we've got - the gifts we have. As we grow in Christ- I am sure He will lead us to do what we are supposed to do.In my lifetime, I don't know how many non-christians I will explain the gospel to. I do know that I have a heart to explain the true-full gospel to "christians"- to challenge them to live up to the name of Christian. To wake them up from their sleep.If I had the opportunity to talk to non christians about my faith- then I take the opportunity. But I feel my calling is to the exhisting church. We all have different callings and gifts which gives us a heart or passion instinctively for certain things.-in Him, chanin

Yes, a concurring thought that has been foremost in mind of late and with complete honesty I am a bit perplexed as to what the Lord would have me do.I can't but help being drawn back to what transpired at Pentecost, the sharp, distinct transformation of the disciples and especially of Peter who had only weeks before denied his Lord.A message that I have been listening to once again is; Martyrdom From Art Katz. Though this doesn't pertain exactly to 'evangelism' there is much that does lend itself to being living examples and specifically an emphasis on one telling word; FullFull of the Spirit.The example being primarily centered around Stephen in Acts 6 and 7.Act 6:5 "...So they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and the Holy Spirit..."Act 6:10 "But they couldn't resist the wisdom and the Spirit by which he kept speaking."Act 6:15 "Then all who were seated in the Council glared at him and saw that his face was like the face of an angel." Have always been fascinated by Stephen, by his character. Humble enough to be the equivalent of a 'bus boy', full of the Holy Spirit he goes on to give a masterful defense of the Christian faith along with a tongue lashing at the end (verse 51 and following). Then to top it all off and note again the emphasis of verse 55 "Act 7:55 " But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God" as he is being taken down under a hail of stones still says "Lord, lay not this sin to their charge."Another word that is predominate is: Unction (thanks Robert for bring that back to my recollection)Hopefully you can see where I am going with all this. But as it pertains to me personally all I can say is it seems that I am 'waiting', still...Still dying to self (Praise God!)Less of 'me'.."He must increase, I must decrease"I had to pause to try and get my thoughts together, went to prayer and this came to mind;Mat 7:22 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." I don't want to try and make this say what it is not saying out of context, but isn't there something key here? As I have alluded to before I hate 'sales' as something you 'do' because you 'should' or it's your 'job'. In the past even as a heathen found myself forced into this type of position and you might have as well written LIAR across my forehead, had to be the worlds worst salesman, just didn't have it in me to try and convince people to buy something. It was just phony, forced, dishonest...just couldn't do it.Sorry to be redundant again, but after going through the "Becoming a Contagious Christian class" it felt exactly the same, for me. I don't want to knock it or any other similar...like what Ray Comfort is doing for instance.I guess part of what I am trying to get at is this recurring thought of what seems to be hovering over much of modern day Christianity. Things are out of order.An easy-believism has produced a very different kind of 'believer' and a whole host of disciples that just ape their leaders and produce more of the same 'kind'. What about repentance? Are we really presenting conversion or is it more 'adaption'?Along that line is this comment from another excellent thread:Christian PerfectionFor some time I have been puzzled by a strange omission in modern Evangelicalism. Literature dealing with the issues of heart holiness has been conspicuous mainly by its absence. (Philologos) It is very easy to tell someone about Jesus, about faith, about Christianity and it seems that it can be construed as "well, I did my part", here's a tract, stop by my church sometime and then we end up with what brother Katz coins as the "succession of Sunday services" syndrome, like some kind of garment you take on and off. To use another great quote from Leonard Ravenhill: "What happens when they get shipped up the Amazon?"On the one hand I am truly glad that I kept my big mouth shut early on in this walk, being caught up in all kinds of false doctrine. There would have been an awful lot of backtracking to do. It took a lot of time to assimilate all this muddy teaching and even longer to unlearn it all.I praise God that He led me back down the old paths, to some 'hard' teaching, to a lot of things that I just recoiled at, though I knew they were true. Then that glorious day!SermonIndex! Oh my! I am not alone!"Thank you Lord!" and I haven't stopped thanking Him yet. To quote Paris Reidhead "...it changed it all!What I have learned here, from the messages, from you all...couldn't adequately express my gratitude. Taking stock of where I am now, looking back over the last year, shoot even the last month, it's quite incredible.But how does all this pertain to this subject?I don't know! :-P Do I fear men? Honestly?Nah, that's not it.Ridicule? Scorn? Embarrassment? Being made a 'fool'?Nah, grew up as a skinny little twerp, shy, reserved, harassed, then grew my hair long to boot...So just what is it that keeps my mouth shut?Mis-representation, think I fear that more than anything and the other thing is I feel compelled right now to keep my mouth shut in a way. Isn't that bizarre? It's almost like a "...my time has not yet come" and yet I can feel it just building up inside me at the same time. Don't get me wrong here, if spiritual matters come up, it does come out, boy does it come out, just hope it is not zeal without knowledge, I can ramble on (obviously!) with the best of them.But to go actively 'evangelising'...I don't know, may not be my calling or maybe it truly is and this is what I am being prepared for.Maybe I am just deceived.Maybe I need to have a fire lit under my...Maybe all this is just a covering for lack of courage? So easy to just talk here rather than face to face...Maybe someone can see through all this and exhort me, rebuke me, challenge me. You can't offend me so let me have it!Just want to be transparent here, time is short, many are perishing. In the mean time will keep waiting, keep praying and seeking the Lord. It doesn't matter what it is I am to be doing, just want to be about my Lords business because He is worthy! Forgive me, this is disjointed, but consider the source :-(... just musing out loud.

personally- and I know I will have those who differ! I believe you have to sit at Jesus' feet first- learn all you can learn to get direction from Him. We will have plenty of opportunities to do whatever the Lord asks of us. But to me, He is my priority- ministering to Him. Waiting on Him. Someone recently shared with me this article called The Priests of the Lord.( http://www.watchman.net/articles/priests2.html ) How some are called to minister to others in the outer court and others are called to minister to the Lord in the inner court. Very eye opening. Neat how the priests in this certian temple (Ezekiel's temple I think) were to wear linen only- so as not to sweat- as in no works of the flesh) there were times when they did go to the outer courts too-but they were required to change their clothes.Anyway, I believe you are on the right track. :)I know many people who share the gospel via. the "FOur Spiritual Laws" and i know they are out and out hypocrites. Those who they are witnessing can se their lifestyle and their actions very plainly. Are they to believe this is ok? Are they being made into worse sinners than the person witnessing? I believe that could be the case. I wouldn't want that on my hands.I look back at my own example a few years ago- calling myself a "christian" and my actions are an embaressment to me. I defiled the Lord's name by making it seem that some things were ok while I called myself a christian. I know what you mean there.I would rather be wasted on the Lord and know for sure that I did not miss out then run around like a Martha and be missing Jesus. Not many are wiling to pour themselves out for the Lord and be wasted on Him alone. We have been taught in the church that it is all about "do, do, do". If we are ministering to the Lord and waiting on Him, we will certainly be able to hear Him say "get up now, time to go do this" then we come back to his feet and wait for his next direction. :)Just my own thoughts.In Him, chanin

Chanin,There are many forms that evangelism can take. absouletly. But I never ment to give the impression that it is "public speaking." Much of what I've read and heard, says that the most effective way to evangelize is 1-to-1.Paul says in 2 Tim 4:2, that we are to be READY to preach the word in season and out of season (those are the only two times ). :-) That "preaching" is not always done publicly. Phillip left public ministry to go to the dessert to evangelize 1-to-1 with the Ethiopian eunic.In fact Billy Graham has been reported to have said that public crusades will not effectivly change people, but 1-to-1 will.for what it's worthmatthew

Matthew,You wrote:"Given this is not the case, but IF there were NOTHING save the command of Jesus to evangelize, would that not be enough? Maybe I'm missing your intent in asking, if so Sorry"Thanks for your humble and sincere inquiry. Good question. My response is that Jesus Himself commissioned those specific disciples at that moment in time. Some might argue that if we are Christians then we are disciples of Christ and then this applies to us today as well. While that kind of works, it's not an absolutely conclusive argument, just opinion. If Jesus said something like "and all who follow after Me are to verbally evangelize on a consistent basis" then the matter would be settled. But I haven't found any such statement. Here's what Jesus did say in prayer concerning all who would later believe:"I do not ask in behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word; that they may all be one; even as Thou, Father, art in Me, and I in Thee, that they also may be in Us; that the world may believe that Thou didst send Me" (John 17:20-21). What I am getting at is the religious burden of evanglism. The one that says "You're not as loved and accepted by God if you're not consistantly sharing your faith with unbelievers." The one that says "You have to evangelize, it's your duty as a Christian."Doing it out of some religious motive with the kind of mindset that you have to do it to be loved and accepted by God is the big problem I think.I think R.A Torrey does an excellent job concerning this issue in "How to Witness to Anyone." He says:"Certain requirements must be fulfilled for real success in leading lost souls to Christ....First, be a born-again believer. If you desire to bring others to Christ, you must turn away from all sin, worldliness, and selfishness, allowing Jesus to be Lord over your thoughts, purposes, and actions.Second, truly love others and long for their salvation. If you have no love for other souls, your efforts will be mechanical and powerless. But if you, like Paul, have great heaviness and continual pain in your heart for the unsaved (Romans 9:2), the earnestness in your tone and manner will impress even the most uninterested person....Third, have a working knowledge of the Bible...Fourth, pray frequently. Pray about whom you should speak to and what you should say. Pray that you would speak powerfully.Fifth, be baptized in the Holy Spirit. After Jesus gave His disciples the Great Commission, He told them:"But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto Me..." (Acts 1:8)"We can do a lot of things...work our courage up, die to self, etc., but I don't think we will see "real success" unitl all 5 of these requirements are met. That doesn't mean God won't direct us to evangelize in some way without all 5 of these in perfect maturity, but as a general idea, if we want to see real succes... I think the majority of "evangelicals" in America who feel burdened to evanglize might fulfill requirement 3. Sometimes, maybe number 4 is sincere, and perhaps some truly fulfill number 1. However, if 2 and 5 are not real in us, I would say we won't see much "real success".If our motive isn't primarily love for God and out of that sincere love for others, I think we probably have a religious burden and that will only weigh us down and will be of little help to others, likely having a negative consequence for both. Yes, Paul said to imitate him as he did Christ. I don't think that's totally clear. So we should wait until we are 30 to start public ministry, as Christ did? Or wait until we have a divine light blind us for three days and someone prays for us and scales fall off our eyes, like Paul? Or, like Paul, must we first go to the desert for years and only learn from Christ before we're qualified? I think a lot of what Paul was getting at is to imitate him in character, though there's likely a lot more to it. Yeah, let's imitate Paul and Christ in reference to evangelism by not doing it until there's sincerity and right motives about it.

This thread has some great Scripture insights. You guys are so helpful!!! Praise God He can help the sheep from this form of communication!!!

There's an article I'd like you all to read about open-air preaching, I'd quote it here but it's probably simpler to give the link:http://www.gospeljohn.com/method_biblical.htmedit: I agree, by the way, that we should not evangelize/preach/witness/etc because of some sense of religious obligation, and those 5 points by Torrey sound about right to me. I believe, however, that if we don't fulfill those 5, we should earnestly seek God that He remedy the problems, we should not be complacent about whatever is disqualifying us from the work of preaching the Word.As for the whole "4 spiritual laws" approach, it has some serious Biblical deficiencies regardless of the character of the one using it, though obviously a hypocrite preaching the Gospel is likely to make converts twice as fit for hell as he/she is.

"I desire mercy not sacrofice"I would say that anything we do out of religeous duty is "filthy rags."Paul though says 2 Cor 5:11"Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men."I know there is nothing directly stated here, but it implies that the direct result of the fear of the Lord (which is the beginning of wisdom) is a desire to persuade men to the faith.My question is then...(and I know this is a bold question but I make it an extreme position for the sake of the discussion):If we can have nothing of Wisdom without Fear, has there even been a Cristian reborn who was not given a desire to reach the lost? I agree that to do anything out of religeous duty is dangerous at best, However EQUALLY dangerous is grieving the spirit who gave us the desire to see the lost saved, by keeping silent because of the fear of men.What I am concerned happens is that TOO MANY of us keep silent because we fear men more then God.I know that TOO OFTEN that hapens with me. In the book of Isiah 51 God shows That to be an offence to Him when he says:12 "I, even I, am he who comforts you. Who are you that you fear mortal men, the sons of men, who are but grass, 13 that you forget the LORD your Maker, who stretched out the heavens and laid the foundations of the earth, that you live in constant terror every day because of the wrath of the oppressor, who is bent on destruction? For where is the wrath of the oppressor? 14 The cowering prisoners will soon be set free; they will not die in their dungeon, nor will they lack bread. 15 For I am the LORD your God, who churns up the sea so that its waves roar- the LORD Almighty is his name. 16 I have put my words in your mouth and covered you with the shadow of my hand- I who set the heavens in place, who laid the foundations of the earth, and who say to Zion, 'You are my people.' " Sorry about the length, this is something God has REALLY been working on me about. for what it's worthmatthew

Wow, outstanding you guy's (and girl's :-D)Thanks to all. Matt, love Is 51, a scripture that often comes to mind and makes one realize the absurdity of fearing man who are but grass as we all are, here today, gone tomorrow. Mere creatures that come in and go out of this world the same way.Like the Torrey assessment as well and it seems the train of thought I am following is not lost on anyone. I guess I just don't want to be deceived or am 'coping out'. I think I am more inclined, because of my own past experience, to be a bit overprotective when I have been 'witnessing', which is not often."Stay away from these guy's" "Whatever you do, don't listen to..."It's still coming together but I do feel that my role may be that of prayer and of 'feeding'. 'You guy's bring 'em in and will get them a change of clothes, make sure they are well fed and protected, will stand guard and fend off the wolves'. Exhort and encourage.There are fishers of men but somebody has to clean the guts out...Have been praying about this this morning and wrote down what I think the Lord is telling me, may share it at a later date. I know am pretty fond of the word 'seems', I prefer it because I don't trust most of what passes through this fallible mind. Yet I also trust and know that the Lord will confirm what He wills to preform.Some more scriptures that come to mind:Joh 21:16 "He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him,Feed my sheep."Joh 4:34 "Jesus saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to accomplish his work".Mat 9:37"Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few; Mat 9:38"Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that he will send forth labourers into his harvest." Mat 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit: Mat 28:20 teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world".

Your post made me think of this...1 Cor 12:12The body is a unit, though it is made up of many parts; and though all its parts are many, they form one body. So it is with Christ. 13For we were all baptized by[3] one Spirit into one body--whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free--and we were all given the one Spirit to drink. 14Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. 19If they were all one part, where would the body be? 20As it is, there are many parts, but one body. I don't mean to make it seem as if everyone needs to be a mouth, I guess I just see the field as being SOO white, and the workers soooo few.matthew

Preach the gospel at all times, if necessary use words.This quote is often attributed to Francis of Assisi; however, you will not find it in any of his works. Nevertheless, it captures the essence of what he was trying to say.

Quote:"2 Cor 5:11'Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men.'I know there is nothing directly stated here, but it implies that the direct result of the fear of the Lord (which is the beginning of wisdom) is a desire to persuade men to the faith."This is an interesting thought, and I don't totally understand that passage. I don't follow your logic that "it implies that the direct result of the fear of the Lord (which is the beginning of wisdom) is a desire to persuade men to the faith." It seems clear to me that, in context, Paul is referring primarily to persuading Christians towards godliness. What I get from that verse is that, since they have comprehension of the seriousness of life and eternity, how our temporal choices have eternal consequences, they persuade men in various ways with eternity in mind. So I definately think this can be applied to evangelism but I don't think it's the primary meaning.Quote:"My question is then...(and I know this is a bold question but I make it an extreme position for the sake of the discussion):If we can have nothing of Wisdom without Fear, has there even been a Cristian reborn who was not given a desire to reach the lost?"I think the answer is clearly "yes." As far as I can tell, fear and wisdom are not requirements for salvation. Quote:"I agree that to do anything out of religeous duty is dangerous at best, However EQUALLY dangerous is grieving the spirit who gave us the desire to see the lost saved, by keeping silent because of the fear of men.What I am concerned happens is that TOO MANY of us keep silent because we fear men more then God."I think you could be right about this, and I think the fear of man is a big problem. But I don't think the solution is somehow working ourselves up and overcoming our struggle with the fear of man. Then evangelism becomes more of a therapy for you so you can feel like you're ok and God is now ok with you. Then, if you do somehow overcome the fear of man, you will likely have to deal with pride issues and that's obviously dangerous. I think this type of awareness (i.e. a desire not to greive the Spirit) is useful to drive us into the secret place and become more desperate for God and His power. But God deals with us as individuals and takes us through seasons and works on certain areas at different times and in different ways... so I don't think every sincere believer is going to start out with a sincere and burning desire to see the lost saved. I believe that as we get more intimate with God and keep the first commandment first (loving God), the second one (ministry) will naturally come about in it's proper time and way. To force it for any reason seems dangerous. God doesn't love or accept us anymore on the basis of our works. I think that when we get right with God we won't fear man. So God direcely is our source and means of change, not our own efforts to try harder. Just getting closer to Him.

What an important thread! Thanks for all the comments offered and questions raised … good stuff. Hope you don’t mind my rambling a bit on several things that seem to flow throughout the thread. 1.\tIt can be quite dangerous to take the commands of Christ to His disciples and relegate them to the “not for us disciples today” pile without very good reason. If this door is opened too wide, think of the commands that might be banished outright. (“… love one another even as I have loved you,” and “…you also ought to wash one another’s feet.”) What’s to keep these commands – spoken only to the twelve – from being lumped into this pile for the same reasons? Of course there are times when the commands of Jesus were only for the twelve, but those are easy to spot as they were relevant to special times or circumstances. We’d have to work pretty hard to place Acts 1:8 and Matthew 28:19-20 in this special category. Though Acts 1:8 was apparently only spoken to the apostles, there is clear evidence that His whole message (verses 4-8) was also meant for other disciples of the time, and not just strictly the eleven. After all, it wasn’t just the eleven who waited in Jerusalem for the Spirit to be poured out. Acts 1:14-15 indicates that there were 120 believers waiting with the apostles for this outpouring. And they – along with the apostles – seem to have received it. If this part of Jesus’ Acts 1 message was heeded by other disciples at the time, might this be an indication that the command in verse 8 is for us as well?Matthew 28:19-20 is even easier to figure out. Jesus specifically tells the apostles to “teach them to observe all that I commanded you.” Think about it. This would mean that the apostles were under obligation to teach these “disciples of all the nations” (that’s us) to “go make disciples of all the nations.” This was, after all, one of the things that Jesus commanded them to do. We can know for sure, then, that this “Great Commission” is still a relevant command for all disciples today.Even though there are plenty of other New Testament scriptures (already listed in another post) that show our obligation to evangelize the lost, one might wonder why it isn’t mentioned more often or with greater clarity. Not to worry. I believe this only means that evangelism is one area that the early church got right. Most of the epistles were written to deal with issues or correct problems in the existing bodies. The historical record of the early church’s success in reaching the lost, along with this “lack of mention”, just shows how devoted these believers were to obeying the mission Jesus had given them. It’s been mentioned that maybe not every Christian is called to evangelism. I guess if one could show me an exemption from such a clear calling in the Word, I might buy it. Otherwise, it’s a bit of an iffy stand. (“Most Christians are called, but not me.”) I’ve encountered this thinking many times in the ministry we’re part of. A believer who would like to join our ministry team but indicates that their calling is discipleship and not evangelism. (Which always means, “I don’t want to do evangelism.”) My reply is always the same. What kind of disciples will you make if you are not actively involved in evangelism? Answer: Disciples who are not involved in evangelism. Disciples who don’t reach the lost. They will be molded by what they see in the “mature” discipler’s life and actions … and not just by the discipler’s teaching. They will end up following the example of “non-evangelism.” (And become a very unhealthy – unfruitful – disciple.)The whole Word of God reeks with the desires of God to set the captives free, and with our calling to partner with Him in this great mission. I think it was Hudson Taylor who said something like, “The Great Commission is a command to be obeyed, not a suggestion to be considered.” We have enough Christians today who will opt out of such a command … let’s be careful not to water it down for them. (Or for ourselves.)2.\tI think it’s a huge mistake to feel that we must get our lives and motives purified “enough” before stepping out in this great calling Jesus has given us. What is holiness but stepping out in obedience to the commands of Christ? Is there another practical definition I don’t know about? Should we ever delay obedience in order to become more obedient? Of course not! It has been suggested that we should obey the first (and greatest) command first, and that the second command will come naturally. Surely there is a relationship between the two, but the conclusion to wait is wrong. After all, the second command is a command. That means we are called to do it … whether we feel ready enough or not.It’s my experience that we actually put ourselves in a great position to purify our lives and motives when we step out in obedience to those things we might not be “ready” enough to accomplish. The very act of stepping out in obedience puts us in a position of growth. (I presume, of course, that I’m addressing believers on this board who desire to obey Jesus and live holy lives. This doesn’t apply to those church-going hypocrites – mentioned in an earlier post – whose hearts are not bent on following Jesus.) Also – let’s not presume that holiness or purified motives are a prerequisite for being used by God. Are any of us there yet? Not by a long shot. But God can use us in amazing ways if we allow Him to. We can even take heart (as Paul does in Philippians 1:18) that Christ is proclaimed even “in pretense.” (Not that we should ever aim or settle for such false motives. But Paul’s attitude sure puts things in a God-glorifying perspective.)In the final analysis, the “one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.” (James 4:17) I believe this would include our calling to evangelize the lost. Let’s not wait for perfection or maturity before obeying Jesus. Perfection and maturity are obeying Jesus.3.\tI agree that lifestyle is a very valid (read biblical) method of evangelism, but would caution against using an either/or stand in its application. Words without lifestyle is usually impotent. And lifestyle without words can be equally impotent. In other words, it’s usually not enough to preach or share when your life doesn’t match up. It’s also usually not enough to be a great example if you never end up communicating the actual gospel message at some point. We must have both if we want to be effective witnesses for Jesus. (The concept of lifestyle evangelism has often served as an obedience cop-out in many churches. The idea that as long as we live it we don’t need to preach it. This has sadly resulted in a “social gospel” approach to evangelism around the world.)Well, enough rambling for now. My bottom line is … let’s obey! We don’t have to be constrained by one method or strategy in reaching the lost, but let’s do be constrained by an obedience (yes, a “duty”) that results in God receiving the glory due His name.

Is there any biblical support for this?It is a nice idea, but where is it in the bible?Actions are NECESSARY, but are words not also?matthew

Todd,Perhaps I was unclear, you have mised my intent in much of your last post. Most significantly, I think the answer is clearly "yes." As far as I can tell, fear and wisdom are not requirements for salvation. I never intended that wisdom was REQUIRED FOR salvation, only that (like works--James 2) those saved have it. The fear of God is said throughout scripture to be an atribute of those Jews and getiles (like Cornelius) who had a heart that pleased God. The fear of God then could be said to be a result of faith becauseHebrews 11:6And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him. speaking of 2 Cor 5:11'Since, then, we know what it is to fear the Lord, we try to persuade men.'You saidWhat I get from that verse is that, since they have comprehension of the seriousness of life and eternity, how our temporal choices have eternal consequences, they persuade men in various ways with eternity in mind. ]That is a GREAT deffinition of evangelism. Perhaps all we need is a clarification of terms. How do you define evangelism?As I said previously, I agree that EVERYTING we do in ourselves to try to merrit the favor of God is worthless. However, since we have not been given a spirit of fear, we can be confident that when we step out, God will provide the strength, courage needed. When we fear men, it is either because We do not have faith in God to protect us, or because we honor the praise of men more than the praise of God. Perhaps I err here, but I have always (since my conversion) been of the opinion that in regard to overcoming sin--fearing men included--we as new creatures have the infinate resources of God to draw upon whenever we would deny ourselves and take up our crosses and follow. In regard to the God's initiative vs mans, I have heard it said like this, We should act asif it depends on us, but pray like--and understand that--it all depends on God. For what it's worth,matthew

HakkaMin,Very well said!Words I needed to hear and take to heart. Don't want to skirt the issue in the least, yet probably didn't do a very good job of expressing myself prior. You are absolutely correct, it is not 'either/or' but 'both/and'. Love the example of Stephen, what a combination, busboy and in at least one final and glorious example, he was the greatest evangelist on the planet at that moment.I think I was leaning more towards this train of thought: " And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."Eph 4:11-16 What kind of disciples will you make if you are not actively involved in evangelism? Answer: Disciples who are not involved in evangelism. Disciples who don’t reach the lost. They will be molded by what they see in the “mature” discipler’s life and actions … and not just by the discipler’s teaching. They will end up following the example of “non-evangelism.” (And become a very unhealthy – unfruitful – disciple.)Well said!It’s my experience that we actually put ourselves in a great position to purify our lives and motives when we step out in obedience to those things we might not be “ready” enough to accomplish. The very act of stepping out in obedience puts us in a position of growth. (I presume, of course, that I’m addressing believers on this board who desire to obey Jesus and live holy lives. This doesn’t apply to those church-going hypocrites – mentioned in an earlier post – whose hearts are not bent on following Jesus.) Think this is what I really needed to hear, though I have heard it before. If we are honest enough, we can find 'excuses' not to do what we should be doing. Personally I am not real big on systems and programs, having a ready made 'speil', but that doesn't mean that I should not be prepared. " Instead, exalt Christ as Lord in your hearts. Always be prepared to give a defense to everyone who asks you to explain the hope you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak evil of your good conduct in Christ will be ashamed of slandering you." 1Pe 3:15,16I do also find that there is much to be said about being full of the Spirit and it is the Holy Spirit that convicts and works through us.It should just be normative and natural if we are walking in the Spirit, not something we should have to 'work up' in our flesh or be compelled out of guilt. But I still have some work to do and I appreciate your comments brother.Mike

My friend just had a child and I am sick of hearing about it and looking at pictures of this young perfect person! My son was just married. It is fun to watch them learn to love each other, totally engroused in exploring their new-found emotional intimacey. They are poster kids for marriage. Anyone who thought it was not a good idea should take a look at them. The idea is when we are in Love with Jesus no one can stop us from talking. When we are in Love with Jesus no one can keep us from touching his hand and speaking to him or of him. Its the love of Jesus that is the most effective evangelistic campaign. That is why it seems new Christians have such an easy time winning the unsaved. They are in love and everyone is going to hear about it. They can't help it. We are old married folks. We have learned to live with our spouse. We need to rekindle the romance with Jesus and light the world on fire. If you love Jesus it will be expressed to your Christian brother. They will know us by our love one for another.

Quote:" It can be quite dangerous to take the commands of Christ to His disciples and relegate them to the “not for us disciples today” pile without very good reason. If this door is opened too wide, think of the commands that might be banished outright. (“… love one another even as I have loved you,” and “…you also ought to wash one another’s feet.”) What’s to keep these commands – spoken only to the twelve – from being lumped into this pile for the same reasons?"Good point. Let me clarify. It's not that the commands are not for "us" today. But when you say "us" are you speaking of the Church universal or the individual? Quote:"If this part of Jesus’ Acts 1 message was heeded by other disciples at the time, might this be an indication that the command in verse 8 is for us as well?"Acts 1:8"but you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."Again, first of all, Church universal or contemporary individual application? Is every Christian required to make a witnessing pilgramage to Israel? Second, I don't read this as a command but simply a true statement. Third, I simply want to emphasize the point that the witnessing will come about after the reception of power from the Holy Spirit.Matthew 28:19-20"Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age."Universal or individual? Not only was Acts 1:8 only spoken to the apostles, so was Matthew 28:19-20. If we are going to apply these verses today in a general way, musn't it be to the Church universal? Why is this disctinction so important? Because then we have breathing room to be dealt with individually by God and not be burdened under religious yokes. As long as the Church at large is witnessing and making disciples, this mandate from the Lord is being accomplished. Joe Christian may never witness or make one disciple in his whole life and completely fulfill God's will for his life (in theory). Sure, some may hide under such a truth, but it's a truth nonetheless. Or what if I was even to concede that every Christian has a responsability to direct evangelizm. So how about I go walk down the street tonight and share to gospel with someone and then never do it again for the rest of my life. Have I now fulfilled this requirement? Am I now "ok"? Who is to make the rules as to how much and consistency? What does it take? 10 people in a lifetime? 10 people a week? 10 a day (starting the day of conversion)? Can we go this route without leaving the clear teaching of Scripture and venturing into mans (religious) reasoning? It seems clear to me that the "Great Commission" can, at best, be seen as a commission to the Church universal, and it is therefore incorrect to make this a rule for each individual. It's a great ideal, but it's wrong. Quote:"Even though there are plenty of other New Testament scriptures (already listed in another post) that show our obligation to evangelize the lost."Hmmm... I think I would agree with this statement in reference to Matthew 28 and perhaps a few others if applied to the Church universal. Quote:"It has been suggested that we should obey the first (and greatest) command first, and that the second command will come naturally. Surely there is a relationship between the two, but the conclusion to wait is wrong. After all, the second command is a command. That means we are called to do it … whether we feel ready enough or not."Agreed. Let me clarify. I do not mean to imply that we are to wait or hesitate concerning the second command. But the command is to love others, which can be done in countless different ways, evangelism only being one of them. Quote:"It’s my experience that we actually put ourselves in a great position to purify our lives and motives when we step out in obedience to those things we might not be “ready” enough to accomplish. The very act of stepping out in obedience puts us in a position of growth."Agreed.Quote:"Also – let’s not presume that holiness or purified motives are a prerequisite for being used by God."Agreed.Quote:"In the final analysis, the “one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin.” (James 4:17) I believe this would include our calling to evangelize the lost."That's fine if you believe that and apply it to yourself in some way, but should you allow your opinion to defile the consciences of others? I think many people "think" they are supposed to evangelize in a certain kind of way because they have been taught that by men, not because God has made it known to them.

It's good to talk about this stuff, but we must also be doers: Jesus says "why do you call me "Lord, Lord" and do not do the things which I say?" Luke 6:46. If we truly love God, clean the inside, and the outside stuff will just come. God gave me the opportunity and with being in the Bible as much as I can, Jesus just came out of my mouth. God will grow us and He will use us as His instruments if we love Him and want to do whatever He wants us to 24-7-365.

Thanks for helping to clear up your position, Todd. I think I can better see where you’re headed now. Just a couple of observations, though.It's not that the commands are not for "us" today. But when you say "us" are you speaking of the Church universal or the individual? It seems clear to me that the "Great Commission" can, at best, be seen as a commission to the Church universal, and it is therefore incorrect to make this a rule for each individual. It's a great ideal, but it's wrong. I still have a pretty big problem with the idea that the commands of Christ to make disciples (evangelize) are for the “Church universal” and not for the individual believer. You didn’t mention why you believe this is true, or what standard of criteria you use to come to this conclusion, so I’ll just plow ahead with some of my reasoning. First – the wording of Matthew 28:19-20 reveals that the command given here by Jesus is for individual believers. The key word is “them.” “Them” (whoever they are) are to be taught to observe all that Jesus commanded the disciples to do … including, of course, this very command to “make disciples.” So, who is “them?” Church universal or individual believers? Sure seems to me that Jesus is referring to individuals. After all, the apostles are called to baptize “them”, and I’m not sure how that would apply on some kind of corporate scale. Baptize churches? Baptize the “Church universal?” I think Jesus is referring to individual believers who He is calling the apostles to baptize and teach. And, therefore, it’s these individual believers who are to be taught to obey all that Jesus commanded the apostles – including the command to make disciples.Second – the example of how the apostles responded to this command might help to shed some light on whether they believed it was to be applied to the “Church universal” or to the individual believers. After all, the command was first given to them (and then, as commanded by Jesus, taught to others.) So what do we see? How did these eleven apply this direct command of Christ? The book of Acts and early church tradition seem to indicate that they took this command personally. Doesn’t seem like any of them were saying, “Hey, each of us has our own gifting. If we work together we can corporately obey this command … but that doesn’t mean I have to do the actual evangelism.” We don’t see that seven were actively involved in evangelism while the other four were opting out due to it being a “to the Church universal” command. Acts 4:29 says that these twelve (now) apostles prayed that God they would speak God’s word “with all confidence.”Act 4:31 - And when they had prayed, the place where they had gathered together was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak the word of God with boldness.They all – each of them – seemed to take this call by Jesus seriously … and sought the empowering of the Holy Spirit for the very purpose of evangelism. Their testimony – and the example of the rest of the early church believers – shows a people who seemed to feel that they were each expected to reach the lost. Just an interesting observation. Third – I believe that the burden of proof falls heaviest on the one who takes a command of Christ (or the apostles) and claims that it was only meant to be obeyed by the “Church universal.” Wouldn’t it be much safer to firstly presume that it is meant for us, as individual believers, and then – if necessary (and with clear evidence) – to move it to the realm of for the “Church universal” only? If we are in danger of erring, wouldn’t it be best to err on this side? For example, Paul (in his letter to the Corinthians) commands, “Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?” Should we take this as a command given only to the “Church universal” or to individual believers? I’d rather start off by presuming that it’s a command for me personally, and then wait for strong evidence to show otherwise. (Though as you can see from my first point, I believer that the evidence is strongly in favor that the Great Commission is a command for every believer.)Finally – I understand your desire to protect the church from legalists who place a “religious yoke” on the necks of the unsuspecting. Great desire. But don’t forget that the true commands of Christ are a “yoke” as well … a (delightful) responsibility that we dare not lighten or disregard. I don’t have time to deal with the problem of these legalists who add their own requirements to what the Word of God actually says. Important topic, but maybe not here and now. I just want to stand strong in encouraging us all to see the Great Commission as a command from Jesus that applies to every one of us as individual believers … believers who delight to do His will.

Here's a different way of looking at evangelism. What is evangelism? It is helping people be born again. They have new spirits birthed by the Holy Spirit that are of God which make them offspring of God.Jesus came to gather a family together for God. The First Born of many Bretheren. The Bible calls the church, The Church of the First Born. We are a new creation. The world has never seen a human vessel and soul with a Spirit that is all God. In Genesis everything is declared to produce after its own kind. Our God is a God who believes in increase.Jesus cursed the fig tree because it did not produce. We are not all called to operate in the office of evangelist. Just as not every person is not a doctor who delivers babies. Many will have children and, or impart into the lives of young people. It doesn't matter what we think. Look at it from God's perspective. What does He want?

smichael,I agree that we should always attempt to see things as God sees them (not that we ever could perfectly, but a paralell far beneith) however, I am concerned your conclusion is in error.We are not all called to operate in the office of evangelist. Just as not every person is not a doctor who delivers babies. This is a false analogy, you cannot equate evangelism with an occupation. Nowhere does God command people to be doctors or deliver babies. The case is different with evangelism.Regarding what God wants:2 pet 2:9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentanceGod wants everyone to repent.I won't spent the time (or forum space) to again redo all the work that others have done previously regarding our responsibility to evangelize...from God's perspective there are many going down the broad road needlessly. A penalty has been paid which far exceeds what they owe...but...Romans 10:14How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? but for what it's worth,matthew

I just realized I said:...from God's perspective there are many going down the broad road needlessly. A penalty has been paid which far exceeds what they owe...but...Forgive me for claiming God's perspective...I have no right or ability to say "here is how God sees this"Rather, from the perspective of what I know scripture to say...matthew

The church (each believer) has two main responsibilities. These two are the main purpose for the church. First one is to "love God." As we all know Jesus said this was the greatest commandment. Learning to Love God is as endless as eternity. The second, (as important as the first) is to love your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:37-40). As a believer we have two different "neighbors." One being my fellow believer. Scripture calls me to love them, and think of them more than myself. We have over 36 "one another" commnadents to follow concerning my relationship with other believers. My other neighbor is the unbeliever. My relationship with the unbeliever is limted. God warns me to aviod any deep dealings with them. But I am to show them such compassion and respect that they will ask me why I have so much hope. That, it combination with the way I love my fellow believer, I hope God uses to bring the unbeliever to salvation. God might also ask me to use my mouth also. There are those times that we need to share what Jesus has done for us. Remember that when you became a believer the living truth became part of each of us. That truth longs to be revealed to others. We all desire joy in our faith. We look for it in worship style, preaching, activites with-in the body, and so on. But joy in the believer will never reach the desire I long for till we particapate in the suffering for the unbeliever. John knew this very well. For he writes to us in IJohn 1:1-4, that even though he saw, touched and felt Jesus, his joy would not be complete till he shared Jesus with others.Just some thoughts..jnp

Acts 1:8"but you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be my witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."Again, first of all, Church universal or contemporary individual application?I believe the correct answer to this question is, both. The call to fellowship with God is both to individuals and to the Church as a whole. So also is the call to our vocation, our real service to God. Our vocational calling springs from and is only possible through fellowship. This vocation of ours relates to the nations;Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. (Jeremiah 1:5)We are called, just as Jeremiah was, to this heavenly purpose and prophetic ministry, both as individuals and as a Body and God provides the endowment to meet that responsibility. In Christ,Ron

I would like to ask two questions for clarification to two different posters. First jnp,But I am to show them such compassion and respect that they will ask me why I have so much hope.Is there a bible verse that says we are to wait until we are asked to open our mouth? Secondly Ron,We are called, just as Jeremiah was, to this heavenly purpose and prophetic ministrydo you mean that we are all, like Jeremiah called to the ofice of a prophet?also, is there other scripture that shows a VOCATIONAL calling. that is a teaching I have not heard (or maybe have purposly ignored). Either way, I am unfamilliar and would like biblical clarification.thanksmatthew

Todd:I see you have caused quite a stir again by your understanding of Matthew 28:18-20. (How did the discussion on "prosperity" in the scriptures go?)After reviewing all of your posts in this thread, I think I can see the underlying reasons for your re-interpretation of the Great Commission. I will state my conclusions first: I believe your underlying concerns are valid, but your interpretation of Matt 28:18b-20 needs clarification.First, your underlying concerns. You seem to be very concerned about how some Christians try to convince others to consistently participate in evangelism (narrowly understood as verbal communication of gospel truth) simply because it is a Christian's duty and the Lord's command. You are concerned that these Christians might be "burdened under religious yokes," such that verbal evangelism becomes a "requirement" to be fulfilled, or worse, a "rule" that is to be strictly followed. Hence, you have an issue with "doing it out of some religious motive with the kind of mindset that you have to do it to be loved and accepted by God." I totally agree that evangelising merely out of duty is ill-advised, and can easily fall into legalism.Because of these concerns, you cited R. A. Torrey's five prerequisites for evangelism, emphasising that evangelism must be done with "sincerity and right motives" (2nd prereq.) and that evangelism must be done in the power of the Holy Spirit (5th prereq.). I heartily agree with you on this.Second, interpretation of Matt. 18b-20. I believe your unique interpretation of these verses grew out of the underlying concerns just mentioned.The thrust of your argument is simple. You argued that these verses were only directed to the disciples of Jesus and applied specifically to them. Making a distinction between the universal church and modern individuals, you further argued that even if the application of this verse were to be extended, it would apply only to the "Church Universal," not the individual.On this basis, an interesting understanding emerges: the Church as a corporate Body is to carry on this Commission, whereas some individuals within this Body may not engage in evangelism (again, narrowly understood as verbal witnessing to unbelievers). To you, part of the underlying appeal to this understanding is that "we have breathing room to be dealt with individually by God and not be burdened under religious yokes."My understanding is as follow:First, I think the Great Commission is intended to be applied to all disciples of Jesus, from the first century to present. For instance, a strong hint is given at the conclusion of the Great Commission (and of the Gospel of Matthew) (v. 20)--"to the very end of the age"--a phrase that most commentators agree refers to the time of the eschaton, the second coming of the Son of Man as King and Judge. Hence, it is a Commission that is to be carried on until the end times.Second, the Great Commission should not be narrowly understood as verbal witnessing to unbelievers. It stated the goals (to "make disciples" and to "teach them") but did not mention the method. It should include all means, verbal and non-verbal, by which the power of the gospel is demonstrated.Third, the distinction between the Church and the individuals should not be pushed too far. We are the Church, the Body of Christ. The Lord's command to the Church naturally applies to individual members of the Body. Thus, the Great Commission is for every Christian. We should all engage in evangelism, both individually and corporately. "Evangelism" here though, does not exclusively mean verbal preaching or witnessing, however it will nevertheless be an important part to it. Experience shows that even at times when we feel unprepared for, opportunities to speak for Christ and to make a testimony for him in our daily conversations often arise by the providence of God. Indeed, evangelism is a lifestyle, one that every Christian should live. We may not feel called to go on the streets to preach, but by the way we live and by the way we speak, we witness Christ to others. And insofar as we do engage in daily conversations with friends and colleagues, if Christ is really the controlling paradigm of our lives, it is virtually impossible for the topic of faith to not come up once in a while.Finally, I agree with your concern that some Christians might fall into legalism. However, I would say the Great Commission applies to all of us; it is a call for us to engage in evangelism as a lifestyle. Nevertheless, it should never be used as a legalistic rule; After all, Jesus was the one who opposed legalism most vehemently.P.S. Rebecca Manley Pipert's book, "Out of the Saltshaker and into the World" is an excellent book on evangelism as a lifestyle.

Secondly Ron,Quote:We are called, just as Jeremiah was, to this heavenly purpose and prophetic ministrydo you mean that we are all, like Jeremiah called to the ofice of a prophet?also, is there other scripture that shows a VOCATIONAL calling. that is a teaching I have not heard (or maybe have purposly ignored). Either way, I am unfamilliar and would like biblical clarification.And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. (Revelation 19:10)Our vocation (and apparently angels too), is to testify of the Lord Jesus, by the same Spirit which inspired the prophets of old. The way of bearing this witness, the substance and essence of this testimony is the Spirit of prophecy.You may want to listen to a T.A. Sparks series of sermons called Vocational Fellowship, this is excellent ministry and highly recommended;Vocational Fellowship Part 1Vocational Fellowship Part 2Vocational Fellowship Part 3Vocational Fellowship Part 4Vocational Fellowship Part 5Vocational Fellowship Part 6In Christ,Ron

Matthew I reply with the Word of God regarding the supposed lack of official occupation for evangelists in the body. Ephesians 4:11-1311 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets;p and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of ChristThe word "gave" is didomi meaning (supply, furnish, give something to someone, something to be administered, to furnish, endue, to appoint to an office, and there is more strongs's 1325)Quite a few people deliver and birth children, but not everyone is a doctor. But in a situation that calls for me to deliver I am more than capable. "I can do all things through Christ..." but that does not mean I am called to the office of evangelism.

Re Ron and theJeremiah commentI understand what you mean by prophetic ministry, I think. You are saying there are two streams in the church right now the evangelical and propetic. The prophetic is a term that implies a God-centered view and a maturing in spiritual matters that the evangelical does not address. There is a difference between the prophet and the prophetic. The prophet is a person who is called to be a mouthpiece for God. The prophetic is an adjective that describes the noun more fully. We are not all called to be Jeremiah. By the way there were plenty of prophets besides Jeremiah. Some of us our called to be of the other 5 ministries and some are called into business, and other secular missions that we are to be victorious in. God wants His people everywhere. He wants His presense felt all over. Its time to make the devil sweat. By the way the verses supporting the difference between the prophetic and evangelistic view?Hebrews 5 and 6Let's not lay again the first things but move into perfection.

Most of the Scriptures pertaining to proclaming the Gospel of Jesus Christ has already been mentioned, but I would like to share the Scriptures pertaining to certain aspects of public ministry, and what I believe the Bible tells us concerning its requirement.OPEN-AIR PREACHINGOld Testament Preachers And thou hast also appointed prophets to preach of thee at Jerusalem, saying, There is a king in Judah: and now shall it be reported to the king according to these words. Come now therefore, and let us take counsel together. (Nehemiah 6:7) I David have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest. (Psalm 40:9) The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. (Luke 16:16) And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; (2 Peter 2:5)John The Baptist In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 3:1-2) John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. (Mark 1:4) And many other things in his exhortation preached he unto the people. (Luke 3:18)Jesus The Preacher From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 4:17) And it came to pass, when Jesus had made an end of commanding his twelve disciples, he departed thence to teach and to preach in their cities. (Matthew 11:1) Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel. (Mark 1:14-15) And he said unto them, Let us go into the next towns, that I may preach there also: for therefore came I forth. (Mark 1:38)New Testament Preachers And they went out, and preached that men should repent. (Mark 6:12) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14) And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. (Mark 16:20) Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word. (Acts 8:4) And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters. (Revelation 14:6-7)The Command To Preach And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. (Matthew 10:7) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20) And he ordained twelve, that they should be with him, and that he might send them forth to preach, (Mark 3:14) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (Mark 16:15) And he sent them to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick. (Luke 9:2) And they departed, and went through the towns, preaching the gospel, and healing every where. (Luke 9:6) Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God. (Luke 9:60) And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things. (Luke 24:46-48) I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. (2 Timothy 4:1-5)The Command To Preach Loudly What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops. (Matthew 10:27)Isa 58:1 Cry aloud, spare not, lift up thy voice like a trumpet, and shew my people their transgression, and the house of Jacob their sins. (Isaiah 58:1) Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; (Joel 2:1)Preaching Different From Teaching Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead. (Acts 4:2) And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ. (Acts 5:42)The Purpose Of Preaching How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! (Romans 10:14-15) To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: (Colossians 1:27-28) But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour; (Titus 1:3) So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it. (Isaiah 55:11) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Romans 10:17)The Reaction To Preaching For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18) And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not. Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed. Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate, And the LORD have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land. But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof. (Isaiah 6:9-13) And he said unto me, Son of man, go, get thee unto the house of Israel, and speak with my words unto them. For thou art not sent to a people of a strange speech and of an hard language, but to the house of Israel; Not to many people of a strange speech and of an hard language, whose words thou canst not understand. Surely, had I sent thee to them, they would have hearkened unto thee. But the house of Israel will not hearken unto thee; for they will not hearken unto me: for all the house of Israel are impudent and hardhearted. Behold, I have made thy face strong against their faces, and thy forehead strong against their foreheads. As an adamant harder than flint have I made thy forehead: fear them not, neither be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house. (Ezekiel 3:4-9) Therefore thou shalt speak all these words unto them; but they will not hearken to thee: thou shalt also call unto them; but they will not answer thee. (Jeremiah 7:27)God Likes Open-Air Preaching For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. (1 Corinthians 1:21) Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. (1 Corinthians 1:25) But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; (1 Corinthians 1:27)I Must Preach The Gospel! For though I preach the gospel, I have nothing to glory of: for necessity is laid upon me; yea, woe is unto me, if I preach not the gospel! (1 Corinthians 9:16) For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. (2 Corinthians 4:5) Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely? (2 Corinthians 11:7)You Should Delight In The Preaching The Gospel Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. (Philippians 1:15-18)"But The Bible Says 'Do Not Preach While Standing On The Street Corners'" Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. (Matthew 6:1-8)"But The Bible Says 'Thou Shalt Not Judge' Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. (Matthew 7:1-5) Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment. (John 7:24) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them. (Matthew 7:16-20) Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand. (Romans 14:4) But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. (1 Corinthains 2:15) But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self. For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord. Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God. (1 Corinthians 4:3-5) Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren? (1 Corinthians 6:2-5) I speak as to wise men; judge ye what I say. (1 Corinthians 10:15) For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world. (1 Corinthians 11:31-32)You Are The Watchman Now Son of man, speak to the children of thy people, and say unto them, When I bring the sword upon a land, if the people of the land take a man of their coasts, and set him for their watchman: If when he seeth the sword come upon the land, he blow the trumpet, and warn the people; Then whosoever heareth the sound of the trumpet, and taketh not warning; if the sword come, and take him away, his blood shall be upon his own head. He heard the sound of the trumpet, and took not warning; his blood shall be upon him. But he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul. But if the watchman see the sword come, and blow not the trumpet, and the people be not warned; if the sword come, and take any person from among them, he is taken away in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at the watchman's hand. So thou, O son of man, I have set thee a watchman unto the house of Israel; therefore thou shalt hear the word at my mouth, and warn them from me. When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand. Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul. Therefore, O thou son of man, speak unto the house of Israel; Thus ye speak, saying, If our transgressions and our sins be upon us, and we pine away in them, how should we then live? Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it. Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right; If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die. None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live. Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal. When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby. But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby. Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways. (Ezekiel 33:2-20)I believe the Scriptures outline a very solid case against the form of evangelism we see today in the American culture, and we need to return to the Biblical approach to evangelism, which is the public proclamation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, regardless of creed or religion of the surrounding culture.Attempting to make every man perfect in Christ,Danny

Re to Matthew:"But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give and answer to everyone who ask you to give the reason for your hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect. I Peter 3:15. NIVI would not use this verse as an end to all to my responsibility of sahring with those who do not know Christ personally.But it is a good verse for us to be encouraged with on some of the important elements of sharing with others that do apply in all situations. First, Christ should be the Lord of you life. Second, no matter how knowledgedable you might be with scripture as a whole,we all have been given a "living hope" when we are saved. All believers should be able to share that hope to some degree or another. third, we need to be gentle and respectful of others. So often we try to cram the Bible down unbelievers. The result can often be a "throwing-up" of the words we tried to impose on them.How quickly we forget how gentle God has been and is with us.One last thought. We need to remember that evangelism is a gift. In Ephesians 4:11 we are told that "He gave some to be prophets, some to be evangelist, and some to be pastors and teachers. Not only is an envagelist to proclaim the gospel clearly to each people group or culture that he might be in. But also teach others how to share the gospel.We are not all called to be evangelist. But God is encouraging all believers to share with others our hope, and what He has done for us. In other words "proclaim" God's greatness to a dying world.Have a great day serving the king of KingsJNP

JNP (and all SI members and guests),if I have been offensive in my previous posts, Please forgive me. none was intended...we need to be gentle and respectful of others. So often we try to cram the Bible down unbelievers. The result can often be a "throwing-up" of the words we tried to impose on them.I agree totally. Method for evangelism is very important...One last thought. We need to remember that evangelism is a gift. In Ephesians 4:11 we are told that "He gave some to be prophets, some to be evangelist, and some to be pastors and teachers. Not only is an envagelist to proclaim the gospel clearly to each people group or culture that he might be in. But also teach others how to share the gospel.We are not all called to be evangelist. But God is encouraging all believers to share with others our hope, and what He has done for us. In other words "proclaim" God's greatness to a dying world.again we are in agreement, I would though say that, like those not called to be a "teacher" can teach, those not called to be an "evangelist" DO evangelize when they (as you said)'"proclaim" God's greatness to a dying world.'matthew

Although it's been awhile since my last post on this topic, I'd like to continue discussing it with anyone who is still interested. I'm not going to attempt to respond to everything in one post but I'm going to start with this key issue... to whom does the Great Commission apply and, specifically, how?What makes me think it applies to the "Church Universal" (or maybe "corporate Body")? I think the best argument for why we can even apply Matthew 28:18-20 beyond the persons it was immediately spoken to, comes from the last verse in the book. Speaking to this group comprised of 11 individuals, Jesus says, "I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Who is "you"? Peter? James? Or the group as a unit (or maybe "team")? Perhaps someone who has a better understanding of Greek grammer can help here. Imagine for a moment that you are the captain of a "Rescue Squad" giving a commencement speech to the group of people about to graduate after years of equipping and preparation. At the end of your speech you passionately exclaim "Go, then, and rescue those who need your help! This is what you've been trained for! GO!!!."A little later in the bathroom you overhear the conversation of a couple of the new graduates. "Now I'm just not sure Jim. Was the captain talking to me? Doesn't he know that my job is only to fly the helicopter? I don't actually rescue people. I don't actually grab the person and rescue them. Maybe I'm just not as important." "I know what you mean Matt, I only coordinate the rescues back at the base using the computers and stuff. Maybe he was only talking to those other guys like Pete and Phil who physcially get to grab the people and rescue them. Maybe we should quit." What would you do? I'm pretty sure I know what I'd do. I'd go find those 2 guys as quick as possible and explain, "No, no, no. You guys misunderstood me. You're just as important as the guys who get all the glory, sometimes even more important. When I said "you" I was speaking to the graduating class as a whole. YOU, as a group, as a whole, as the Rescue Squad, are to go and do this. It's a team effort, and each of you need to do your part. You DO rescue people! Though not in as direct a way as others. Without you it wouldn't happen!" In case you haven't already caught on to my little comparison, the captain in this story represents Jesus, the "Rescue Squad" is the Church, and the commencement speech is "The Great Commission." You can't go too far with the comparison but you probably get the idea I am trying to convey. Jesus commissioned this specific group of people as one whole, as one unit, one team... and He commissioned the Church (historical and universal and consequently "us") with the final line "even unto the end of the age." Since "the end of the age" is not yet come, and the 11 disciples Jesus was speaking to have long since passed on, it seems clear that the "you" in this statement was not meant strictly for them. So who was He speaking to? The Church. That is, the mystical Church (historical and universal). I like using the word "corporate" now because I am leaning towards the idea that each city has one "church". And the corporate "church" in that city is to carry out their role in "The Great Commission" (thought clearly this is also done in an organic way throughout the world). But even if you don't agree with the "local church" idea, I still think this interpretation makes the most sense.