My theology: Love God first, then you are free to live as you please.

This makes your love the measuring rod in moral issues, this makes your love the measuring point in ethics, this makes your love the measuring rod between you and God – you could stay being a humanist, Buddhist, communist or any other “ist”.

The Kingdom of God is marked by God’s love in operation through the Holy Spirit in our hearts – a very different approach.

Indeed Pursuit 101

If you truly love God, then those things that dont please Him will be repulsive to you as well.

If you truly love God, holiness is not an issue for you. It's a [b]pleasure[/b] to live in holiness

:)

Hi Krispy,

Your theology reminds me of Galatians 5. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

So in a very real way, we could say that the law is not for Christians, but for those who do not have the fruit of the Spirit.

You might enjoy [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=10455&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]this[/url] from Diane.

Blessings,

MC

How much do you love God?

Prior to this question is to answer and know what it means to love God.

I am afraid of sentimentalism, emotionalism and abstract use of terms like "pleasing God", "holiness", "love God". And also of illusion of thinking that we please Him, when we please our fleshly desires.

Spurgeon prayed this prayer and we should also:

"I pray that we may be able [u]to prove constantly by our acts,[/u] that Jesus Christ is He whom our soul loves."

We need to examine ourselves and look into the mirror of the simple and pure Word of God, and then ask ourselves, do we love God and how much we love Him, or we are just in great delusion.

Jam 1:23 For if any be a hearer of the word, [b]and not a doer,[/b] he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
Jam 1:24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
Jam 1:25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, [b]but a doer of the work,[/b] this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Jam 1:26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.
Jam 1:27 [b]Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this,[/b] To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

1Jo 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, [b]how dwelleth the love of God in him? [/b]

I feel this thread is well worth expanding on.

Love God first, then you are free to live as you please.

This point is so simple yet so profound and is effectively the working out of our salvation. The problem is that none of us by nature want God. It takes us to be born again by the Spirit of God and this only comes by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour!

Many professors of Christianity if they search their hearts will discover that they only really seek the ‘blessings’ God can give us, but don’t seek God. Many churches have exploited this hunger for ‘blessings’ at the expense of the salvation of souls. If and when these ‘professors’ realise their error and repent of not just this sin, but all their sins and trust Christ for their salvation then we trust they will be born again and then capable of truly loving God (who has revealed Himself to us through His Son)

Believers must get a firm grip on the book of Romans! It will truly bless them. Below is an excerpt which I feel summarises the discussion on the thread so far. I feel we could discuss it on this thread until the end of time and still not get to the bottom of it. It’s wonderful! (especially v 23-26)

Romans 3 v 10-31 (KJV)
10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth,[b] there is none that seeketh after God.[/b]
12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17And the way of peace have they not known:
18There is no fear of God before their eyes.
19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
[b]23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.[/b]
27Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

No, we do not miss your point. . .
If what you do for Christ and what you do for men only stems from your love, it is really inadequate, even sentimental.
It is not touched by the cross of Christ, which declares that man is inadequate – a dying is needed and a resurrection and a living unto God in his power, including his love is necessary.
If we preach man’s love as adequate, we do not preach the cross, which is God’s power unto salvation and, thereby, to adequate standards in ministry to both God and man.
This we pursue.

Krispy, I didn't reject directly your statement and question, but in the context of your post, you are missing something more important that needs firstly to be answered, that is: What it means to love God? Otherwise, we can decline into just theoretical reasoning, without practical benefit.

Here are the thoughts of a dear brother, which I think are touching the core:

We are missing that we are limited in our knowledge WHO IS GOD. And that's why, to say "I love God" is everything simply based on presumption, that you already know fully WHO IS GOD.
And this is not true.
You cannot love God, if you don't know who He is.
Knowing God is one [b]long and deep[/b] process, and not something that we can receive by presumption that we have, and now what it is left to us to love God.
You can love God, by the measure you know Him.

And when you know more of Him, it can happen that you are far from loving God. That's why the greatest battle is, WHO HE IS [i]in reality[/i].

The real thing is to know Him and His character and thoughts about us in reality. His practical commandments. And examing ourselves in the light of that, because we could be in great delusion, thinking that we love Him and pleasing Him. Which I think, we all have been there, and are yet, just depends on the measure. That's why let us focus on that, pursuing to know Him and examing our own hearts in the light of that knowledge.

Kire

I am afraid of sentimentalism, emotionalism and abstract use of terms like "pleasing God", "holiness", "love God". And also of illusion of thinking that we please Him, when we please our fleshly desires.

Ahh, well assured.., each of us is held accountable to GOD, be there emotional nonsense or works of faith. I do realize that there are all too much emotionalism in the "christian" circle these days.

However, "work(s)" and "do(s)", at times, can very well be just some small doses of praise, exhortations, and expressions of that GODward love, be it emotional or sentimental, to CHRIST and to one another.

Thankfully and happily, I'm encouraged by some of the emotions and sentiments expressed by GOD's people here, and I hope to return the likekind to some of you via prayers and a few inadequate words.

Yes, I do love GOD, but it's always because HE first loves me, even at this moment. Holiness, I myself could never produce any, if I tell any of you I could, I'd be lying. Good works? Mine are as good as the thieves' by THE Cross,:(, may be worse, so there, for this moment in time, I can only offer a bit of my expression of love and sentiment of gratitude to our wonderful LORD for some of you here.

I rest contented that the Grace of our Father will only let me enjoy that precious Fruit of the Spirit (CHRIST), and the [i]pleasure[/i] of HIS Holiness. I'm sure HE does not see me as a workless, actionless and fruitless parasite, but is pleased with that Blood of Christ alone, covering all of my ...

Christ alone be gloried,
mamaluk

--- Yo Bro Krisp ...

i looked at your title beginning with "My" Theology, and instatly thought what's "His" Theology about this ... This reminds me of sis D's thread some time back: Love God Then Do What You Want ...

i guess i don't get it either because back then i could only see: Love God Then Do What He Wants, and with your thread all i can see is: Love God first, then you are free to live as He pleases - or something to this effect ...

i think i can just about fathom what you're getting at tho to me it seems like playing with words (not a jab here bro, just my honest opinion) ... For me there is a certain sense of freedom i have/know/feel in our Lord for scripture does say "Whom He's set free is free indeed" ... But i guess my problem is that i only see this freedom in terms of being set free spiritually from the laws of sin and death to salvation via being washed in His shed blood at Calvary, but i DON'T know/have/feel or even see that freedom in terms of my own everyday personal earthly life in that it's still yoked by His precepts, and tho His yoke is light (as opposed to satans heavy one) - it's still a yoke, and i must never forget that i'm a servant of God, bought and paid for with a price ...

i don't know, maybe i'm wrong here, way to tense in this or something, because altho i love God, perhaps i haven't attained the type of love you or Sis D is refering to that'll make me feel free to live as i please, or even moreso trust that i would to His glory out of just love alone, or perhaps i'm just way to suspect of anything that puts a "me" where i believe there should be a "He" to keep me energized and empowered to such Godly living ... Love of Him as i'm getting older i will admit has been more instrumental in my submitting and surrendering to Him, but prior to my getting here it was always how much i owe Him (my very eternal life) that was the major driving factor for me ... But really i guess the real truth of the matter is i don't want to be free to do what i want, or live as i want ... i want to do what He wants me to do, and as He pleases, and pray to Him continually that He make it plain to me whatever work He wants me to do ... i want to know His ultimate pupose for my life, and pray to God that i'm on the right track in what's been one strange journey thus far, because really if He's not got a job/work for me past years end i won't know what to do, save "go a fishin" literally ...

You know the thought of personal freedom in the same sentence with God actually gives me a scary feeling in the pit of my stomach ... Truth be told i'm very afraid of such freedom in attempting to choosing my direction, maybe this is a serious character flaw in me, but i surely do hope and pray not only does He have a full time, all encompassing, time consuming job for me, but that also He'll make it very plain & soon ... Even in love with Him, any kind of idelness scares me, so really i don't want to be that free ...

Enuf of my rambling here, but glad you posted this bro Krisp as it's made me think upon the subject again and i'm sure it's all part of His working out Rom. 8:28 in my behalf ... i'm at a crux of a transition place here where i'm about to become "free" one way or the other ... Free in something, or finally free of it ... His will be done ...

Blessings in Christ Jesus bro! ---

Love God first, then you are free to live as you please

The inversion of this statement is:

[i]If you don't love God first, you are not free to live as you please. [/i] And we all know that such a statement is not true. Plenty of non-believers live exactly how they please.

But consider:

[i]If you love God first, you are empowered to live a life that pleases Him[/i]

Because the inversion of it states:

[i]If you don't love God first, you are not empowered to live a life that pleases Him.[/i] And we know this to be a true statement.

This ought to open a few more doors for balanced discussion (and be less treacherous to a carnal believer). I'm not heckling; I understand where Krispy is coming from, and also where Kire and Pursuit are coming from, and I bless God for the balance.

Brother Paul

Amen brother Paul, I liked that better, I understand what Krispy is saying, but I belive that a person can not change of his own accord or rather can not do what the Lord pleases on his own strenght. A person by himself has a perverted will and can not be anything else but what he already is, A God hating person. It is when God lives through us that we stop being what we where and it is no longer us livig, but Christ living in us and through us. There is a compilation called Crucified with Christ by Paris Reidhead wich talks just about this. I think it is well worth listening to. here is the lik.
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=15790

God Bless.

Reply to Krispy
All the books of the New Testament beginning with the second chapter of Acts, teach the Perfect Law of Liberty. Even the book of James but it requires careful study.

Krispy, this topic was covered in a thread a while ago, (Compton posted the link) and if I recall, it raised a few eyebrows back then. (Mind you, cautions are not bad!)

Some considerations:

1. Is God ever satisfied with ANYTHING we do for him reluctantly or under obligation (ex to appease guilt, win God’s favor, etc) – in other words, for any reason other than WANTING to?

2. The reference to “doing what you want” is normally associated with selfishness, and so many may have difficulty attributing that idea to true godliness.

3. Some equate “want” (desire) with sin, and so falsely assume that if you suppress all wanting, you can also suppress sin. Isn’t that a Buddhist teaching?

4. God sure took a gigantic risk by giving Adam and Eve the freedom to want. Why did he do that? Does that relate with this topic?

5. I agree with those who point out that your theology (a good word) rests on the foundation of grasping the meaning of "loving God" and living it in reality.

Diane

The more I learn about myself, the more I love God. It bemuses me how God could love a sinner like me.

The work of the cross was God's greatest act in my opinion. In Christ we have a wonderful Saviour!

[i]God manifest in flesh, oh wonder to behold

Creative power within the breast that felt the blast of cold.

God in our likeness made, oh may we understand

The One who made the wondering worlds appears as lowly man

He stood within the realm He fashioned with a thought,'

His creatures gazed upon Him; alas they knew Him not,

They cried out for His blood, His claims cast down as dross,

They spat upon His princely face, then nailed Him to a cross.

But He made the tree for that cross of wood.

He made the hill on which it stood,

And in some hidden vein of land

He made the steel that pierced each hand;

He made the sun which hid its face;

He made the fathers of that race

Who, in their hatred knew Him not.

He made the fiends with which He fought

And there, in death, He made a way Back to Himself

Eternally.

Pastor Willie Mullan (1911-1980)[/i]