Christmas haters... They're Baaaaaack!!

Here is a column that was written by Charlie Daniels. If you dont know who that is, you're probably not from America. But anyway... you just gotta love Charlie's down to earth "country boy" logic. I think he hits the nail on the head with this. Enjoy.

Krispy

[i][b]They're Baaaaack!!!![/b]
by Charlie Daniels
Mt. Juliet, Tennessee

Well here we go again. The Christmas season is coming and the boo birds are coming out of the woodwork to resume their efforts to remove every vestige of God, Jesus and Christmas from any property that could remotely be considered to be public.

They're so uptight that they don't want anybody to even say Merry Christmas and some of the merchants have given in on their silly hypocritical demands by informing their employees that the limits of their Christmas greeting to customers has to be Happy Holidays.

Oh yeah!!!!! Well the next time somebody in a store tells you Happy Holidays just ask them what holiday they're talking about.

You see, that's what's so silly and totally beyond any reasonable person's rationale, what is the holiday? It's Christmas. What is Christmas? It commemorates the birth of Jesus Christ. Would we be having the holiday if
not for Jesus' birth? No, we would not.

So what is so threatening about Christmas to these handful of rabid dobadders? If it's just another Holiday, like say Labor Day why are they so afraid of allowing the symbols of the season to be on public display?

It doesn't bother them for you to say Happy New Year or Happy Memorial Day or have a good Fourth. Yet they cringe at the dreaded words Merry Christmas.

Now be honest with yourself, even you cherry pickers. Do you really believe if the Muslims wanted to have their moon and star symbol on public display during Ramadan or the Wickans put a broomstick on the courthouse lawn or the Buddhists passed out little figurines of Buddha on one of their holidays these people would even bother to lift a finger?

You know cotton pickin well they wouldn't.

But there's something about Christmas that terrifies them to the point that some of the people in Fort Collins, Colorado are wanting to ban colored lights from the public square, now just how silly is that. But you know, come to think of it, the white lights could be construed to signify the purity of Christ. Don't tell them that or they may come unglued.

So why does Christmas so frighten these people?

Could it be because Christmas signifies a real event? That a star in the Heavens that could only have been controlled by the Creator of the Universe shone down over the manger in Bethlehem where Jesus was born.

Or could it be the fact that He walked on water, witnessed and attested to by mortal men, or that He healed the sick, gave sight to the blind and even raised someone from the dead, also witnessed by mortal men.

Or could it be that He was raised from the dead and was seen by hundreds of people afterwards.

Or could it be that He said that He is the way, the truth and the life which doesn't leave any wiggle room for the new age junk so many of these people practice.

It makes no difference how much the secularists try to cover it up or how many cases the A.C.L.U. wins to remove the manger scenes from public places, they can never remove Jesus from the heart of men and women all over the world.

I will continue to be a walking talking reminder of Christmas. I will not say Happy Holidays, I will say Merry Christmas. My Christmas cards will speak of Jesus and I will read the Christmas story to my family Christmas Eve night and thank God in Jesus' name for the food we have the next day.

When you're shopping this year and somebody wishes you Happy Holidays, why don't you respond by saying Merry Christmas?

Pray for our troops

What do you think?

God Bless America

Charlie Daniels

December 3, 2007[/i]

They say that "you know a man by his enemies" and I've watched to see the character of those who despise Christmas.

Mostly all secular folks.

Anyhow - this reminded me to tell you about one Christmas years ago, where I had a large number of folks over for the day.

It was very "festive" - lots of laughter, eating, making merry - UNTIL - I came out with a white cake with "Happy Birthday Jesus" written on it and candles --- well - out the window went that "festive" feel. It went over like a led balloon and I couldn't figure out why.

I think we should make the Most out of this time of year. It's the Only time I can freely talk or write about The Love of my life, to my unsaved loved ones - so you know ya gotta make the most of this one month outta 12. :-D

Way ta go Charlie !

It was very "festive" - lots of laughter, eating, making merry - UNTIL - I came out with a white cake with "Happy Birthday Jesus" written on it and candles --- well - out the window went that "festive" feel. It went over like a led balloon and I couldn't figure out why.

Funny how even after 2,000 years He still has that effect when He enters a room! Hellelujah!

Krispy

These same folks want free speech when it comes to trash on TV, radio or so-called "literature"... but as soon as someone says something they dont like... free speech goes out the window.

Hypocricy isnt just in the church.

Krispy

I love Christmas.

If any Fathers and Mothers out there that hate Christmas and you make such a big deal explaining it to your children how wrong it is blah blah blah. Your just fustrating your childrens minds. Who cares about the symbolism, the tree we had in the back yard is still the same tree just cut off and sitting in the corner of my house with all kinds of decorations on it, oh and don't forget the blue lights.

There are all kinds of way to celebrate the birth of our LORD Jesus.

But you say, "Oh, He wasn't born on Christmas day". Who cares, the fact is He was born!

I like using different ideas for each year like putting a Manger Scene instead of a tree. You know the kind that has lights in the statuettes, placed a little higher off the floor so you can accomodate the gifts. There are so many ideas, just don't deprive your children of it.

My Dad did for many years and all he did was make the season miserable. Explaining year after year why we shouldn't have christmas. Of course as I grew older I had come to some sort of an agreement with his indoctrination, but I was confused about the whole thing myself. Finally one day I thought, "I know who I have believed, I know the true meaning of Christmas, and I am going to celebrate it in that fashion." We keep it simple and we are not extravagant in our gift giving.

Yes with all the commericalism thats out there, we got to remember thats the worlds version. Our version is that a virgin did conceive gave birth to a Son and called His name Immanual.

What we should be explaining to our Children that Santa Claus and all the folk lore that surrounds "OUR VERSION" of Christmas are lies.

God Bless you Charlie

Yea, Christians have an amazing ability to complicate everything, and think waaaay to hard about things. Some do it about Christmas. Some do it about music, some do it about baptism, etc etc... and let's be honest... we [b]all[/b] do it.

Following God really doesnt have to be as difficult as we make it.

Neat thing about Charlie Daniels is that now that he's 70... he actually looks like Santa! (Oh no... I said "Santa" on the SI forum... Duck!! Here comes a stone!) lol

By the way, Charlie has a lot of good columns he wrote on his website. Just go to http://www.charliedaniels.com/ and click on "Soapbox" at the top of the home page.

Charlie is a neat guy. I've had the opportunity to meet him twice. The last time was here in Asheville 4 years ago. A buddy of mine who works for a radio station here in town that was hosting The Charlie Daniels Band in concert actually got me and my wife and kids on the bus to meet Charlie. What a sweet soul Charlie is... got a nice picture of my kids sitting on his lap. You also get the impression that as sweet and cuddly as he is, you dont want to mess with him either... lol.

Krispy

Neat thing about Charlie Daniels is that now that he's 70... he actually looks like Santa! (Oh no... I said "Santa" on the SI forum... Duck!! Here comes a stone!) lol

...thanx... now I have snow up my nose!

Krispy

You have snow?? We hardly get snow here. I could drive 20 minutes up into the highlands (I'm in the Blue Ridge Mountains) and see some snow, but my house isnt at a high enough elevation for it here. We might get an inch a year.

It's the ice storms that get us bad.

By the way... wouldnt it be nice if all the "fights" that occur on this forum were fought with snowballs instead of words?? How wonderful that would be.

Krispy

This is the coolest thread ...

I dont know, dude... with all these snow balls flyin' around, I'm thinking this may be the [i]coldest[/i] thread... :-P

Krispy

KrispyKrittr wrote:

This is the coolest thread ...

I dont know, dude... with all these snow balls flyin' around, I'm thinking this may be the [i]coldest[/i] thread... :-P

Krispy

That's the sort of horrendously bad joke that my grandad always tells, and that's nothing to be proud of...

Compton wrote:

You have snow??

Yup. We are getting more tonight even.

Ohh, I want some nice fluffy snow! We have ice right now. Anyone want an icicle? No, you can't use it in the snowball fight...too deadly. :-x

But you could suck on one. :-P

Merry Christmas everyone...

:-)

MC said
(... I reject this nonsense in favor of my more straightforward explanation.):lol: Right...! ;-)

As a Christian I HATE Christmas.

Bah-humbug to you too! :-)

Do you really think that Christmas is something to celebrate?

Yessir-ee-bob... and celebrate it I will, to the utmost.

Jesus didn't die so that people could be anesthetized to the truth through this Pagan festival, but in order to awaken in us the need of salvation - when did Christmas ever do that?

You know... you're right. I never noticed it before but everytime we trim the tree and my wife plays Silent Night on the piano next to it... I get this overwhelming urge to put on a black hooded cloak, light candles and recite incantations... and then I go outside and hug a tree. ;-)

To acknowledge or to participate in this worldly festival is to add to the pure Gospel the beliefs and practices of Roman Catholicism and paganism. Christmas is an abomination and Christians should boycott it completely because it makes a complete mockery of true Christianity.

You're right! How shameful of us to be excited about the fact that "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life". And besides, boycotting Christmas saves us money too.

Christmas as the name tells us is Roman Catholic, not Christian, and as an ex-RC I am qualified to make such a statement.

Seriously tho, I know I'm poking a bit of fun at you, but I do respect your convictions on this. If you choose to boycott Christmas than all I ask of you is that you do it unto the Lord. Since you've come out of the RCC I applaud your desire to seperate as far from it as you possibly can.

However, for folks like me, and many others here... the only thing "Catholic" about Christmas is the "mas" at the end of the word. As I said before, we all know Jesus wasnt born on the 25th of December. We all know there is no hint in the Bible of how many wise men there were... just that there was more than one. We all know that they werent even there for Christ's birth.

But the fact is, He came. He was born in a stable in Bethlehem, and the angels visited the shepherds who were watching their flocks by night. They delivered a glorious message to them, and they proceeded to seek out this newborn King. What a wonderful message that is to us common folks. The King of the Universe invited lowly shepherd to welcome Him into this world... and not kings and princes.

Luke chapter 2 is what we celebrate. Sure, we have certain traditions we enjoy... like Christmas trees (which were introduced by Martin Luther, a man like yourself who rebelled agaisnt the RCC), and gift giving (whats wrong with that?).

I'm not going to try and convince you that you should celebrate Christmas. Thats your business. If you boycott Christmas in order to show your devotion to God, then I support you. But you would be in error if you did so, and passed judgement on those who do celebrate Christmas.

As for me and mine, we will celebrate the birth of our Lord, even if He wasnt born on the particular day we celebrate it on.

One more question, and this is pointed toward the logic you're using. You dont celebrate Christmas because of it's Catholic roots. Well, the RCC is one of the strongest defenders of the doctrine of the Trinity... do you reject the doctrine Trinity as well, because of it's strong Catholic heritage? (By the way, I'm no friend of the Catholic Church... I'm just asking.)

Oh... I almost forgot! MERRY CHRISTMAS, brother!

Krispy

You're in CA, arent you Mike? What are you doing up so early???

Krispy

Ok... whats "Fox & Geese"?

Tell ya what, while y'all are playing in the snow, I'm gonna chop some wood. I love chopping wood when it's real cold out... especially red oak. When red oak is cold is cracks right open. Smells good too.

Krispy

Must be nice. It was cold enough to snow last night... but alas, we are still in a drought here in the south. Havent had any real rain in months, so I reckon if it's too dry to rain it's probably too dry to snow.

I'm dreaming... of a brown Christmas...

Krispy

Ahhh... ok. We must not have had a lot contact with the outside world when I was growing up. Never played that game. Seems when I was a young'in we would get snow now and then. 5 inches or so for a couple days. Now it hardly ever snows. Maybe it's just my mind thinking there was more snow back then. (lets not digress into a debate over global warming!)

Krispy

And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith*
* Forbidden to speak of salvation and grace.*

I am not coming against any one in particular, even the brother who posted this as I have been edified by previous postings of his. I am making a broad sweeping statement here. The fact of the matter is that "they" have not taken our ability to weep, fast and sell our possesions to give to the poor... we have chosen that for ourselves.

And for that matter they have not taken away our rights at all, that is quite purposterous and I wonder what our brothers who are in prison in China for preaching the Gospel would do if they heard americans saying that. Probably laugh, cry, hurl and pray for us even more fervently.

We can street preach, weep in the prayer closet, sell our possesions, minister to the homless... that is, we in America can still do all of the things that Jesus ACTUALLY told us to do. It's just that we dont want to do those things, we'd rather create a false persecution complex for ourselves once a year to strengthen us in our false christianity that we live the rest of the year.

Again, I know this sounds "judgmental" but it is largely true and needs to be said. I have a feeling our interest and boldness spent on keeping "Christ in Christmas" would be far better spent in keeping Christ as the 100% Lord of our hearts, finances, time, families and lives the other 364 days in the year.

Of course it is far easier to play it this way, but it will never bring revival in our own lives or others. I love Jesus, I hate the American Christmas tradition that so many evangelicals want to fight for. (I used to be one of them) It's a smokescreen to make us appear more religous then we really are.

James 1:27 niv
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

Happy holidays to all.

In Christ - Jim

[color=CC0033][b]'Thank you' for all the Merry Christmas wishes being sent out to all and the message of "Joy to the world - the Lord has Come." I'm basking in it with you and truly look forward to hearing much more of the happiness you're enjoying with your families.

Help spread "the Reason for the Season" --- steal it back - no matter who set this particular date - grab it and use it to HIS GLORY.

***The world doesn't understand 'us' knocking Christmas at all.***

Your joy is contagious - and it should show this world why the Angel said, "Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of Great Joy, which shall be to all people."

Shout in song anywhere you are - "JESUS CAME TO SAVE THE WORLD"

We'll have our hard times, sure enough, in His timing - so enjoy this Christmas while we still have the freedom to sing Carols in Public and let's be a witness to the JOY of His Coming while we still can.

Also Thanking GOD that a few of our members have received healings from our God, to even be here this Christmas with their families and us!

[u]Praise The LORD !!![/u]

Isa 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon His shoulder: and His name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.[/color][/b]

He_Reigns that was nice to see your post in Christmas red. When the page opened, I said, "Wow" like seeing fireworks.

Ginny: I never played Fox and Geese before, it sounds like fun. The closet I think that we've come to in a game like that was "Red Rover".

Our family has not celebrated Christmas for 15 years. I have five kids and they have everything they need. My kids are the first to point out the Christmas trees in the sanctuary and the fact that the choir is dressed in red like santa.

All kids want is to be loved, cared for and have parents with true convictions. What more could a kid ask for??? They are happy children and they have learned how to stand for what you believe even when it doesn't always appeal to the flesh and that God is sufficient to fill those needs we have.

It's a tough world and God has blessed us with strong children who will stand in the gates of thier enemies.

Psalm 127:3-5
3Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

4As arrows are in the hand of a mighty man; so are children of the youth.

5Happy is the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate.

Why can it not be both? Why give only two options? I do understand your points Jim, duly noted and understood.

Same here, brother I understand. I write specifically about many who do nothing the Lord commands, but will raise their voice in protest over the holiday / christmas situation.

Blessings to you in Christ Jesus-

Jim

I think the Christmas haters have always been here on the earth. The key though to recognizing who they are, as they masquerade themselves as angels of light is observing them as they compartmentalize Jesus and HIS Word and HIS church in any area of their life and ask others to do the same, it goes up as a red flag for me in knowing their identity.

What if there were no such thing as Christmas? What than would you say to christians who decided that they were going to celebrate the birth of Christ and have a tree, lights, exchange gifts, have musical programs, plays, a big dinner and a Sunday set aside to commemorate the birth of Christ? Would you encourage them or discourage them and why?

In your opinion wouldn't this distract the lost away from the true meaning of why Christ came which is His sinless life, death, burial and resurrecton all to take our place on the cross and to save thier soul?

Wouldn't you say this is really what needs to be proclaimed to a lost and dying world?

Isn't Christmas taking away from the true meaning of why Christ came by keeping Him as a baby in the manger?

HomeFree89 wrote:

glorytoglory wrote:

Isn't Christmas taking away from the true meaning of why Christ came by keeping Him as a baby in the manger?

Nobody's keeping Christ in the manger. We're just celebrating this time in His life.

Personally, this Christmas season has been one of great rejoicing for me. It is my fifth Christmas as a Christian and it's been one of pondering what Jesus' advent meant to Him and us.

He left the glories of Heaven and the fellowship with His Father to come to this dark, decaying, and dying world to save us. So, we celebrate this time in His life and every other part, too.

Why not celebrate that Gift?

Jordan

When I became a christian I too enjoyed christmas. I enjoyed celebrating the fact that not only did He die to save my soul He also left heaven to come to this earth to save my soul BUT this is something that I need to celebrate everyday and not turn into a holiday. God forbid I should say "let's celebrate His birth" when the apostle Paul said:

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

The problem with making this a holy day, a feast and a national holiday like it has become now is that to the world, in thier eyes, it is a distraction from the cross, this is my concern.

The truth is only christians are enjoying the true meaning of christmas not the unsaved world.The unsaved world enjoys the gifts and santa clause ect...along with the christians.

I can't say for sure if it is doing more damage than good or visa versa. I will say that it is harming the church because we are compromising with the tree and the gifts ect.. which have nothing to do with clebrating the fact that He came.Also their are many other things this holiday brings that are infiltrating into the church. It's strange fire...

I don't condemn anyone who celebrates it, I just believe the church is better off without it. Of course the church is better off without alot of things. Since we live in America I guess we feel we have room for alot of things. :-(

Here some history on how this holiday came about. I have always believed that it came about because of the persecution of the church and Constantine's attempt to unite the church with the world.

"2. In the third century, Paganism itself experienced a shift in religious mood. Attention was less focused on the many gods of the classic religion, but gave more attention to the transcendently holy and life giving God whose power the lesser Gods represented. This development is manifest particularly on the imperial cult. Emperors, human beings as they were, were no longer seen as gods. Rather they were seen as persons who, in virtue of their office, were "begotten of the gods", sharing in their mortal way in the holiness of the Divine and enjoying its protection. Behind this shift in the sense of the imperial cult lay the third century development of solar monotheism, worship of the life-giving sun as a symbol of the ultimate God who is the source of all things. The emperor Aurelian built a great temple to the Unconquered Sun, which he intended to be the center of the empire's religious life. [b][color=000000]Christians in the fourth century could find no better way of rivaling this popular deity than by using his birthday, December 25 (the winter solstice), to celebrate the birth of Christ, the [/color][/b][b][color=CC0000]Sun of Righteousness[/color][/b]"

http://www.theologywebsite.com/history/growth-persecution.shtml

TonyS wrote:

But brother, please don't use such words as "false sense and application of holiness", for disqualification.

And what I have in mind is nothing other than legalism. Legalism that masquerades as holiness.

Legalism is certainly not holiness. Jesus produces any good works that is not in vain. If any works are done for the purpose of justification, it is all in vain. Being reverent in celebration of Christ's birthday is certainly not legalism when it driven the Holy Spirit's unction. You certainly could not get a Holy Spirit unction to be against Christmas celebration. The Holy Spirit prompts a Christian to give preeminence to HIM in everything, including HIS Birthday and everything else that is in HIS purpose.

moe_mac wrote:

You certainly could not get a Holy Spirit unction to be against Christmas celebration. The Holy Spirit prompts a Christian to give preeminence to HIM in everything, including HIS Birthday and everything else that is in HIS purpose.

[b][color=330000]What a statement that is! So would you say then that everything that is done all in the name of Christ is influenced by the holy spirit of God? Not so![/color][/b]

What a statement that is! So would you say then that everything that is done all in the name of Christ is influenced by the holy spirit of God? Not so!

moe_mac wrote: If you will read carefully again what a posted, I said nothing about what is done in the name of Christ, but I what I said was, what is done as Holy Spirit's unction gave prompting. That will never differ from HIS WORD. The answer to your question is no.
My question for you is, why would anyone read differently from what posted and ask a question about something totally different?

Merry Christmas and may HIS name be lifted high in all things, that HE might have preeminence in everything.

We need to celebrate the birth of Christ everyday. Since I am not catholic I can't say Merry Christ-[b][color=0000FF]mas (mass)[/color][/b] but I will say this:

Praise God for the birth of Christ but don't stop there! Praise Him even more because He died for me and saved my soul from hell!

Did you know that the word [b][color=0000FF]mass [/color][/b]in Christ-[b][color=0000FF] mas[/color][/b] means [b][color=0000FF]"dismissal"[/color][/b]. Everytime you say Merry Christ[b][color=0000FF]mas[/color][/b] your saying Christ-[b][color=0000FF]dismiss[/color][/b]. Something to think about!

From Wikipedia (direct link won't work):
"The term is derived from the late-Latin word missa (dismissal), a word used in the concluding formula of Mass in Latin: "Ite, missa est" ("Go; it is the dismissal").[1]

Same here, brother I understand. I write specifically about many who do nothing the Lord commands, but will raise their voice in protest over the holiday / christmas situation.

Trying to read thru all the posts. There were a lot since I last looked at this thread!

Jim, I understand and agree that most believers in this country would fall under this category, however I think that for the most part you're preaching to the choir here at SI. I have found that most folks that actively participate in this forum are far more serious, and much more active in their walk with the Lord than the average pew warmer. Not that we dont all need a fire lit under us, but this forum is not for the "weak at heart", if we can put it that way.

Just wanted to point that out.

Krispy

I think it was Mike who brought up a point that we should all consider...

Ask the average heathen in America what Christmas is about and they will tell you it celebrates the birth of Christ. Thats universally understood around the world.

How confusing to the unbelieving masses when they see and hear Christians say things like "I hate Christmas!" or "I refuse to celebrate Christmas!".

I think it's a horrible witness.

I'm even a bit confused about it myself. You can celebrate the birth of Christ w/out all the Santa's and stuff like that. But to ignore it all together just to show everyone how spiritually deep we are? I dont get it.

I think a lot of believers need to relax and make Christmas something that would pleasing to God. Christmas is what we make it.

Krispy

Did you know that the word mass in Christ- mas means "dismissal". Everytime you say Merry Christmas your saying Christ-dismiss. Something to think about!

...and I never knew that the "mas" stood for anything at all until I was nearly 30. A well meaning Christian made sure I knew how evil I was being by uttering the word "Christmas".

Gotta love spiritual party poopers.

(by the way... it's not a sin to say MERRY CHRISTMAS!)

Krispy

As with most things, things can be done to honor Christ, or men . And probably christmas to, and i think it is a very nice thing to celebrate our saviors birth.... it is just that i read somewhere our Lord and Saviour Jesus was most likely born in april, so all of you maybe wanna stick your christmas tree back into the garage for some months.

Only real trees used in our Christmas celebration! ;-)

It's been noted that we all agree that December 25th was not the day Christ was born on. But I think it would be funny if the first thing the Lord says to us in heaven is:

"Well done thou good and faithful servent. Oh, by the way... jokes on you... I [i]was[/i] born on December 25th!"

:-P

Krispy

KrispyKrittr wrote:

celebration! ;-)

It's been noted that we all agree that December 25th was not the day Christ was born on. But I think it would be funny if the first thing the Lord says to us in heaven is:

"Well done thou good and faithful servent. Oh, by the way... jokes on you... I [i]was[/i] born on December 25th!"

:-P

Krispy

I wouldn't be surprised if December 25 was the day He was actually crucified! Seriously!

Another word for mass(dismiss) in the dictionary is "depart".Which means your saying Christ[b][color=0000FF]depart[/color][/b] and for me that is sinful.

Another word for mass(dismiss) in the dictionary is "depart".Which means your saying Christdepart and for me that is sinful.

Let us rejoice that He departed, if He had not of the comforter which is called the Holy Ghost would not have come.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

So if Christmas means Christdepart, praise the LORD! I am glad that He is gone because I need Him to be my mediator, I am doomed without Him.

Compliments wrote:

Another word for mass(dismiss) in the dictionary is "depart".Which means your saying Christdepart and for me that is sinful.

I am glad that Christ departed!

Let us rejoice that He departed, if He had not of the comforter which is called the Holy Ghost would not have come.

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

The truth of the matter is that Christ came to do His Fathers will and to depart sending His Spirit, which was the promise that even the Angels inquired to look into, is now God in us.

So if Christmas means Christdepart, praise the LORD! I am glad that He is gone because I need Him to be my mediator, I am doomed without Him.

2 Timothy 4:8
Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, [b][color=0000FF]but unto all them also that love his appearing.[/color][/b]

Kinda all comes back to what I have said before... I love the Carols of Christmas, I love the decorations, I love gift giving, I love the warmth of my wife and the fire, I love the look on my kids' faces when the come downstairs Christmas morning, I love wishing folks Merry Christmas as I walk by them in the store, I love sipping coffee with my wife while the kids open presents, I love family stopping in, I love taking plates of cookies to our neighbors on Christmas Eve w/ my wife and kids, I love listening Crosby and Sinatra crooning "The Christmas Song" in the back ground, I love reading Luke Chapter 2 to my family before the kids all head to bed on Christmas Eve, I love my 4 yr old crawling under the covers and wriggling in between my wife and I before the sun comes up asking if they can go open presents.... etc etc...

And so far, the Holy Spirit has not convicted me of one of these things. Y'all can keep or not keep Christmas if you want to... but as for me and my house...

Krispy

Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing.

We are praying for revival, there are those that love to have the LORD appear again in power and demonstration and then there are those who do not. Like someone said in another thread, "Stop preaching against religions and homosexuality or we're leaving". This couple who said this does not love our LORD's appearing. I take the above verse in different ways, not just the traditional thinking of the Rapture.

Kinda all comes back to what I have said before... I love the Carols of Christmas, I love the decorations, I love gift giving, I love the warmth of my wife and the fire, I love the look on my kids' faces when the come downstairs Christmas morning, I love wishing folks Merry Christmas as I walk by them in the store, I love sipping coffee with my wife while the kids open presents, I love family stopping in, I love taking plates of cookies to our neighbors on Christmas Eve w/ my wife and kids, I love listening Crosby and Sinatra crooning "The Christmas Song" in the back ground, I love reading Luke Chapter 2 to my family before the kids all head to bed on Christmas Eve, I love my 4 yr old crawling under the covers and wriggling in between my wife and I before the sun comes up asking if they can go open presents.... etc etc...

Gee Whiz, I feel like coming down and celebrating Christmas with you and your family.

C'mon down! Just keep in mind, we aint got any snow!

Krispy

I can think of alot of things that appeal to my flesh but in the end the flesh is never satisfied. I want to have a feast everyday on whatsoever is good, true and holy. I want to sow into my family spiritual things. Christmas to me in the end was always draining. Kids act really spoiled after Christmas I have noticed, they seem discontent and constantly craving for more even adults. Then they go out on New Years Eve to get blasted on alcohol and more parties.

I can think of alot of things that appeal to my flesh but in the end the flesh is never satisfied. I want to have a feast everyday on whatsoever is good, true and holy. I want to sow into my family spiritual things. Christmas to me in the end was always draining. Kids act really spoiled after Christmas I have noticed, they seem discontent and constantly craving for more even adults. Then they go out on New Years Eve to get blasted on alcohol and more parties.

Like I said... Christmas is what you make it. It can become everything you just mentioned, or it can be a meaningful time of commemorating the birth of Christ and the gift of salvation... and a time for friends and family... or you can let it get totally out of control.

Krispy

KrispyKrittr wrote:

I can think of alot of things that appeal to my flesh but in the end the flesh is never satisfied. I want to have a feast everyday on whatsoever is good, true and holy. I want to sow into my family spiritual things. Christmas to me in the end was always draining. Kids act really spoiled after Christmas I have noticed, they seem discontent and constantly craving for more even adults. Then they go out on New Years Eve to get blasted on alcohol and more parties.

Like I said... Christmas is what you make it. It can become everything you just mentioned, or it can be a meaningful time of commemorating the birth of Christ and the gift of salvation... and a time for friends and family... or you can let it get totally out of control.

Krispy

Nope! It is what it is and were all going to have to find out what that is "IS"! lol!!!

Everything is either black or white, there are NO GREY AREAS.

Christmas to me in the end was always draining. Kids act really spoiled after Christmas I have noticed, they seem discontent and constantly craving for more even adults.

It's like a poor man become rich over night, he goes crazy with the spending, finally in the end he's poor again. Too much is not good. Too much heat in the greenhouse produces poor seedlings for transplanting.

Children should receive items that they will be grateful for when they get older. My Sister said that she wouldn't go over board with her gift giving to her children, but there she is, spending and spending on her two sons whom she has spoiled, they get what they want. They are never satisfied. The gifts that they get at Christmas are tossed aside. Within a years time they are either broken or the gifts they didn't touch are taken to the Salvation Army. What a waste. On top of that, because of their pickiness, their health is poor. She took them to a naturalpath who told her get your kids off junkfood. And your right, Adults are the same way.

We need to take on the K.I.S.S principle.

Keep It Simple Stupid! 8-)

Everything is either black or white, there are NO GREY AREAS.

If this is true then you must find yourself in disagreement with the apostle Paul a lot.

Krispy

Maybe I'm like John Wesley, and need to go cold turkey off caffeine. I heard that his withdrawls almost drove him mad when he kicked tea. I don't I'm spiritual enough to say good-bye to coffee yet.

I used to drink a lot of coffee and chocolate, and my favorite tea, "The London Cuppa", the best tea in the world. But I had to give it up because everytime I wouldn't drink it for a day I'd get these headaches and I didn't want to be addicted to "having" to drink the stuff to get rid of the headache. So all caffiene is totally out of my system. I drink decaf coffee, and herbal teas. I am headache free.

I can see Wesley going mad, afterall in those days, they didn't have Bayer Aspirin. :-D

KrispyKrittr wrote:

Everything is either black or white, there are NO GREY AREAS.

If this is true then you must find yourself in disagreement with the apostle Paul a lot.

Krispy

I'm never in disagreement with the word of God!

Everything is either black or white, there are NO GREY AREAS

Proverbs 20:29 The glory of young men is their strength: and the beauty of old men is the grey head.

I love the clearance sales though afterwards! Last year I was able to get an air hockey table for my kids at 75% off! :-) Im saving up now to buy everything up that everyone else paid full price for! lol!!!

Compliments wrote:

Everything is either black or white, there are NO GREY AREAS

Proverbs 20:29 The glory of young men is their strength: and the beauty of old men is the grey head.

Sorry, but I have some grey areas. :-P

LOL!!! :-)

I'm never in disagreement with the word of God!

Well then... you have to agree then that there are some grey areas. Paul addressed many "grey areas" and then concluded with "Let every man be fully convinced in his own mind". That, my friend, is a grey area.

Krispy

KrispyKrittr wrote:

I'm never in disagreement with the word of God!

Well then... you have to agree then that there are some grey areas. Paul addressed many "grey areas" and then concluded with "Let every man be fully convinced in his own mind". That, my friend, is a grey area.

Krispy

"WE" may have grey areas but the word of God does not. God is holy, just and pure and we are to be holy as He is holy.

Let the tree be good and it's fruit good or let the tree be corrupt and it's fruit corrupt! Matthew 12:33

Proverbs 11:1
A false balance is abomination to the LORD: but a just weight is his delight.

Proverbs 20:23
Divers weights are an abomination unto the LORD; and a false balance is not good.

"WE" may have grey areas but the word of God does not. God is holy, just and pure and we are to be holy as He is holy.

Well, I think you know what I was saying. If not, I cant help that.

Krispy

KrispyKrittr wrote:

"WE" may have grey areas but the word of God does not. God is holy, just and pure and we are to be holy as He is holy.

Well, I think you know what I was saying. If not, I cant help that.

Krispy

This is an admonition to the church to be persuaded that what you are doing is of the Lord. This scripture is not to mean do whatever you feel like.

Romans 14:4-6
4Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

I can prove this because there were those who were eating at the idols table and they regarded it as unto the Lord but at the same time they were causing others to stumble. Just because you call something as unto the Lord doesn't mean that it is.

I guess when the question is not answered, one can only conclude they used pleased the fifth.

Merry Christmas to all who say Happy Holidays instead of Merry Christmas in the name of Christianity and then call turn around and call it tolerance, just and good. I hope Santa brings all you a years life's supply of eye sauve.

This is an admonition to the church to be persuaded that what you are doing is of the Lord. This scripture is not to mean do whatever you feel like.

Considering that you have completely misunderstood me, nor do you seem interested in trying to understand me... I'll just ignore what you said... and wish you a Merry Christmas with much love.

Krispy

What do you think of this? Do you think this is a correct definition of mass? This is what I've been told, still researching...

"As previously stated, the word "Mass" in religious usage means a "death sacrifice." The impact of this fact is horrifying and shocking; for when the millions of people are saying, "Merry Christmas", they are literally saying "Merry death of Christ!" Furthermore, when the fat man in the red suit laughs boisterously and says, "Ho ho ho, Merry Christmas", he is mocking and laughing at the suffering and bleeding Saviour, who died for our sins. He does this while parents place their little children into his waiting arms to hear his false promises of gifts that he says he will give them. Consider what you are saying when you say "Merry Christmas."

What is so amusing about our Saviour's painful death? What is so funny? Why is Santa laughing? Why are you going along with it? Your words do count and Satan knows it. Yes, the word "Mass" does mean "death sacrifice", and to cement that fact, we will consider the definition of the inventors of the religious application of the word "Mass." I am looking at page 537 of the Catholic Encyclopedia, which says, "In the Christian law, the supreme sacrifice is that of the Mass." It goes on to say, "The supreme act of worship consists essentially in an offering of a worthy victim to God, the offering made by a proper person, as a priest, the destruction of the victim." (2) Please note carefully the word, "victim" of the Mass. The Latin word for victim is "Hostia" from which the word "host" is derived. The Mass, by definition of those who coined the word, is a sacrifice involving a victim. There is no other meaning for the word "Mass" or "Christ-Mass." On page 110 of a book entitled "The Mass In Slow Motion", we find the following words: "It is only with the consecration that the sacrifice of the Mass is achieved. I have represented the Mass to you, more than once, as a kind of ritual dance." (3) "

http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract4.html

Furthermore, when the fat man in the red suit laughs boisterously and says, "Ho ho ho, Merry Christmas", he is mocking and laughing at the suffering and bleeding Saviour, who died for our sins.

Dont forget, if you scramble the letters... you can make Santa into Satan! And what about Rudolph's Red Nose? Obviously that is a promotion of drunkeness...

The mass is blasphemous. I dont think you'll find anyone here that would argue that point.

But that doesnt make the utterance of "Merry Christmas" sinful or blasphemous.

Here's the thing, Glory... I encourage you to completely ignore Christmas if thats you're conviction. Not celebrating Christmas doesnt make you any more or any less of a Christian than celebrating it does. Our salvation is not based on our views of Christmas. If you can not in good conscience celebrate it unto the Lord then you would be sinning if you did celebrate it.

But at the same time, I would be a hypocrite if I didnt celebrate it because I dont see anything wrong with commemorating my savior's fulfillment of prophecy in Isaiah by being born in the City of David.

Whats important here is that neither of us should be sitting in judgement of each other.

You havent brought any new information concerning Christmas that hasnt been presented here every Christmas since I joined this forum. It's almost like as we unpack the Christmas decorations we find all these stale arguments and debates in the bottom of the box. We spray 'em with Fabreeze and put them out there... it's almost a Christmas tradition. LOL

I support your decision to lock yourself in your house on Christmas (which is what you have to do in order to ignore it)... but as for me, I find I have many more opportunities during the Christmas season to share the gospel with those who need to hear than any other time of the year.

And the world doesnt need to hear arguments agianst Christmas... that would be confusion to them. And it's not God who is the author of confusion. They need to hear about WHY Jesus was born. What better time to do that then at Christmas, when everyone is singing songs about Him?

So if you feel you must ignore... I say you better do it. But I hope someday you will put all that aside, go Caroling, take some cookies to some shut ins, feed some homeless people, and take advantage of the opportunity to explain to the heathen masses WHY Jesus was born... instead of telling the world WHY you dont celebrate His birth.

Krispy

The festival of Mithras (Christmas) has now become firmly positioned within the institutional church as an 'official' celebration. In doing this, it has chosen to observe a celebration that is not Biblical, all the while rejecting those celebrations that are appointed by the Lord (Leviticus 23). Yeshua rebuked the religious leaders of His time for their traditions: "Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the traditions of men" (Mark 7:8). Eighteen-hundred years later, nothing had changed: "Though these two divine streams [the Bible and tradition] are in themselves, on account of their divine origin, of equal sacredness, and are both full of revealed truths, still, of the two, tradition is to us more clear and safe (Catholic Belief, 1884 edition).

I wouldnt recommend you use Judaizers as a resource. While they are trying to convince us not to celebrate Christ's birth, they are trying to convince us we should observe the OT feasts and festivals.

To me... thats even worse.

Sorry, but I disagree with whole underlying premise of these websites you've posted.

Krispy

What on earth has happened to this thread?

I hadn't looked at it since page 4.

Are we comparing who's holier than who? It sure does look that way.

Should we start a thread on what do you do 24/7 - 365 days a year compared to what others do, 24/7 - 365 days a year ? I've got some Missionary friends who may join in on that one.

That's what this thread looks like. A contest of who's holier than who here.

Most of you aren't Jewish. If you were, you would celebrate Chanukah & all the other Feast days. You'd have a Chanukah bush and be buying gifts and spinning dredels. Hey, I saw there's a good one about spinning dredels on youtube - unless you want to start digging at Chanukah traditions next.

Anyhow ~ No one is commanded to or not to, keep the Jewish Feasts (or how to get back to the LAW on how to - which few Jews do. But maybe on some Orthodox Forum they're fighting over that also - sigh) - and no one is condemned in Scripture for keeping one day above another, to celebrate the Incarnation and sharing the Incarnation with the world and 'Why' He Came.

If we all quit Christmas - our loved ones who don't fully know Him would NEVER understand why. They'd ask if we'd gone JW or something. I know mine would and it's the only time of the year that I can write them "Jesus Stories". I've known the "roots of Saturnalia" for 20 years but
even my Jewish Relatives who married gentiles respect this day and their gentile spouses respect the Feasts their spouses keep. They celebrate all together.
If you don't DO Christmas - then what profit is it to condemn those who do?

We're not to judge each other on "days" that we keep as "unto The LORD."

I posted elsewhere that HE was born more than likely in September and so HE was more than likely "conceived" in December.
No one knows what day HE was conceived. The "Feast" He was born for - Yes - but not the day of His actual Incarnation, when the Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary --- His Conception Day is His Incarnation Day.

Oh, I'm getting tongue tied now ~

[color=336666][b]MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OF YOU INCARNATION CELEBRATORS.

HAPPY CHANUKAH TO WHOMEVER IT MAY CONCERN.

The mix ~

"Dashing through the snow - [i]HOY[/i] - in a one horse open sleigh - [i]HOY[/i] - over the hills we go - [i]HOY[/i] - laughing all the way - HoyHaHa...[/color][/b]

:-D

I think it's important that we distinguish between what it means to judge a person and what it means to judge all things. If we could not judge anything we would be in a real pickle wouldn't we?

1 Corinthians 2:15
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

glorytoglory wrote:
I think it's important that we distinguish between what it means to judge a person and what it means to judge all things. If we could not judge anything we would be in a real pickle wouldn't we?

1 Corinthians 2:15
But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Christmas lover wrote: We have not judged until we arrive someone is guilty, consider the appropriate punishment and instruct others to administer the punishment. Ask yourself what does a does a judge do? What is the definition of a Judge. How many times I gotta post this? Merry Christmas all my little liberal buddies who goes with the world view!!!!

ginnyrose wrote:
Quote:

I wouldn't be surprised if December 25 was the day He was actually crucified! Seriously!

You have got to be kidding! You are not serious are you???? Do you not know that Jesus was crucified during passover week? That the Jewish passover is observed during the month of Nisan which is the same as our March/April? Wikipedia will tell you this, if you want to check it out.

ginnyrose

Psalm 119:165
Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Thanks for straitening this out ginny. I suppose some are against celebrating Easter too. After all, there are many lies being spread about the lost discovered tomb of Jesus. Lies strait from the pit of hell and it's not hard for one to identify the groups that spread these lies, as I said in an earlier post.

crsschk wrote:

Did you know that the word mass in Christ- mas means "dismissal". Everytime you say Merry Christmas your saying Christ-dismiss. Something to think about!

With each year I become more aware of the word Christmas and all the commercialism that goes with the event. I find myself wishing it would all go away. Spend, spend, spend, on things which have no lasting value, and for the most part what we do not need. We all know that this celebration is a tradition of man. I don't believe that our Lord Jesus Christ ever asked us to celebrate his birth, just remember his death until He comes again. We have tried to make it a religious holiday, but amidst it all is carnality.

Here is another definiton of Christ-Mass

http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract4.html

"For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

Blessings
Jalim

Jalim, Mike didn't say that and the same sister that did say that also gave that same link to David J. Meyer's "prophetic" site on this previous page.

You both are posting Scriptures that are condemning your brothers and sisters.
Even when ginnyrose said something valid about dates.

If either of you can interpret Scripture at all - it is those type posts that are putting an unnecessary stumbling block of condemnation on people who's hearts are not corrupt.

I didn't see this much on Halloween.

If a Saint only knows history as Mike and others have posted about this celebration - what do you believe you are accomplishing by adding your own condemning ideas and scriptures to this?

If in their hearts, they feel this day is for sharing Christ to the world - then why only find those sites that have a history that is questionable?

I've found that most people who are against this day are those who got tired of buying gifts, as was expressed earlier - about all the "work" and "money".

I liked Compliment's answer to that. :-D
"Keep it simple " and may I add - give what you would have spent to the poor.

I've heard more "histories of this day" in the last 20 something years than I can keep track of.
I don't even 'do' Christmas anymore - but I see that condemning folks who do is wrong Scripturally. This is not Halloween and there's no witches here - to my knowledge.

I wish you all would read these and see what is being said and done here to innocent "hearts".

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
Rom 14:4 [u]Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at naught thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.[/u]
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offense.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

1Co 8:1 Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth.
1Co 8:2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know.
1Co 8:3 But if any man love God, the same is known of him.
1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
1Co 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Co 8:8 But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse.

1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the meat market, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
1Co 10:26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof.
1Co 10:27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.
1Co 10:28 But if any man say unto you, This is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that showed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fullness thereof:
1Co 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?
1Co 10:30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?
1Co 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.
1Co 10:32 Give none offense, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God:
1Co 10:33 Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.

Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of a holy day, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Col 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshiping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,
Col 2:19 And not holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.
Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances,
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a show of wisdom in will-worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honor to the satisfying of the flesh.

He_Reigns said

If in their hearts, they feel this day is for sharing Christ to the world - then why only find those sites that have a history that is questionable?

To be sharing Christ with the world is a worthy deed, and not just for a day. I was looking at the meaning of the word Christmas and the carnality that is attached to the event. Each person acts according to their own conscience.

Blessings
Jalim

HE_Reigns wrote:

You both are posting Scriptures that are condemning your brothers and sisters.
Even when ginnyrose said something valid about dates.

If either of you can interpret Scripture at all - it is those type posts that are putting an unnecessary stumbling block of condemnation on people who's hearts are not corrupt.

I didn't see this much on Halloween.

If a Saint only knows history as Mike and others have posted about this celebration - what do you believe you are accomplishing by adding your own condemning ideas and scriptures to this?

If in their hearts, they feel this day is for sharing Christ to the world - then why only find those sites that have a history that is questionable?

I've found that most people who are against this day are those who got tired of buying gifts, as was expressed earlier - about all the "work" and "money".

Your one of the only ones throwing judgements and accusations around. Maybe you ought to reread your own post a few times. The facts are the facts and if you don't like the facts than maybe you have some praying to do.

It looks more to me like you and a few others may be under some heavy convection the way you come out swinging all the time and attacking others who are only presenting the truth to you.

Your one of the only ones throwing judgements and accusations around. Maybe you ought to reread your own post a few times. The facts are the facts and if you don't like the facts than maybe you have some praying to do.

It looks more to me like you and a few others may be under some heavy convection the way you come out swinging all the time and attacking others who are only presenting the truth to you.

And this isnt judgemental??

C'mon folks... this is rediculous. Christians fighting over Christmas, of all things.

Someone mentioned that there are probably Christians who wont celebrate Easter. Well, guess what... be here when Easter rolls around. There will be an argument about that too. Happens every year.

I could say "the sun is hot", and in 10 minutes there will be 3 or 4 posts telling me I am of my father Satan because the sun is cold.

This was meant to be a light hearted thread... and it started out that way. Even one of the moderators posted a quick note saying how cool this thread was. But there are some folks here that just cant let things be. Probably get some enjoyment out of getting everyone else's dander up or something, I guess.

There are days this forum is like a 1st grade classroom without a teacher to keep order.

Some of you ought to be ashamed of yourselves.

Krispy

KrispyKrittr wrote:

Your one of the only ones throwing judgements and accusations around. Maybe you ought to reread your own post a few times. The facts are the facts and if you don't like the facts than maybe you have some praying to do.

It looks more to me like you and a few others may be under some heavy convection the way you come out swinging all the time and attacking others who are only presenting the truth to you.

And this isnt judgemental??

We are to judge things not people.

I SAID:

1)Your one of the only ones throwing judgements and accusations around:

TRUTH

2)The facts are the facts and if you don't like the facts than maybe you have some praying to do:

Everything I have said here and two other people on this thread are the facts. Reread my posts and see if you see anything but facts.

3)It looks more to me like you and a few others may be under some heavy conviction the way you come out swinging all the time and attacking others who are only presenting the truth to you:

Are they coming out swinging? YES THEY ARE!

I'm done with this thread. Have a good day!:-)

Are they coming out swinging? YES THEY ARE!

...and so are you. Just the fact that you have to go tit-for-tat on everything.

I'm done with this thread.

...good.

Krispy

KrispyKrittr wrote:

Are they coming out swinging? YES THEY ARE!

...and so are you. Just the fact that you have to go tit-for-tat on everything.

I'm done with this thread.

...good.

Krispy

I'll let God be the judge of that.

See what I mean? You cant leave things alone... you have a need to get the last word in.

Sorry you feel that way. I feel bad for you.

Merry Christmas, my friend.

Krispy

crsschk wrote:

Everything I have said here and two other people on this thread are the facts. Reread my posts and see if you see anything but facts.

Will challenge that, with a caveat ... That being this all need not turn sour and ill-willed, divisive.

Your earlier quote and the same that I also quoted (Jalim please note) did have it's own qualification there;

What do you think of this? Do you think this is a correct definition of mass? This is what I've been told, still researching...

So to be fair we shouldn't be jumping to conclusions.

Actually I wrote that before I found this:

I am looking at page 537 of the Catholic Encyclopedia, which says, "In the Christian law, the supreme sacrifice is that of the Mass." It goes on to say, "The supreme act of worship consists essentially in an offering of a worthy victim to God, the offering made by a proper person, as a priest, the destruction of the victim." (2) Please note carefully the word, "victim" of the Mass. The Latin word for victim is "Hostia" from which the word "host" is derived. The Mass, by definition of those who coined the word, is a sacrifice involving a victim. There is no other meaning for the word "Mass" or "Christ-Mass." On page 110 of a book entitled "The Mass In Slow Motion", we find the following words: "It is only with the consecration that the sacrifice of the Mass is achieved. I have represented the Mass to you, more than once, as a kind of ritual dance." (3) "

http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org/tracts/tract4.html

I am content with the facts that I have found. Please do not quote me anymore because like I said I am done with this thread and when you quote me you are just dragging me into a fleshly debate I choose not to get into.

God bless you and have a nice day! :-)

Please do not quote me anymore because...

OK, I wont quote you anymore... :-P

Sorry, I just couldnt resist. Glory, as much I dont agree with you on this topic, I do love you and wish you a Merry Whatever It Is.

Your brother...
Krispy

crsschk wrote:

Your earlier quote and the same that I also quoted (Jalim please note) did have it's own qualification there;

My error. Please accept my apologies for attributing to you words spoken by someone else.

Blessings
Jalim

It seems there are many different opinions on Christmas meaning in when it was, whose birthday it represents, and who it is about.

While there are some things that does not necessarily have absolutes, we need to be very careful we don't blend in with the world and take their definition of tolerant and call it good. I'm posting a story below and have removed the name of the person referred to but you can get the general idea as you read it. Most people will have a good idea of what US National figure the story was aimed at and it fits many people.

Judy Wallman, a professional genealogical researcher, discovered that Mrs X's great-great uncle, Remus X, was hanged for horse
stealing and train robbery in Montana in 1889.

The only known photograph of Remus shows him standing on the gallows.
On the back of the picture is this inscription:

Remus X; horse thief, sent to Montana Territorial Prison 1885,
escaped 1887, robbed the Montana Flyer six times. Caught by Pinkerton
detectives,
convicted and hanged in 1889.'

Judy e-mailed Mrs X for comments.
The staff of professional image adjusters sent back the following
biographical sketch:
Remus X was a famous cowboy in the Montana Territory.
His business empire grew to include acquisition of valuable equestrian
assets and intimate dealings with the Montana railroad. Beginning in
1883, he devoted several years of his life to service at a government
facility, finally taking leave to resume his dealings with the railroad.
In 1887, he was a key player in a vital investigation run by the renowned
Pinkerton Detective Agency. In 1889, Remus passed away during an
important civic function held in his honor when the platform upon which he
was standing collapsed.'

No absolutes, just whatever the spin right.

lol... I loved that "spin".

Krispy

If I might add one more thing on this thread. Although the wilkipedia has much true information, it is a worldly tool and is full of errors. A wilkipedia story will neither confirm or dis-allow or change m...y opinion one iota in God's Word. Ask yourself was it written under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Only one book WAS written under the inspiration of the HOLY SPIRIT AND IT IS God's Holy inspired, infallible, inherent Word. (BIBLE)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/10/18/wikipedia_quality_problem/

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2005-11-29-wikipedia-edit_x.htm

http://www.conservapedia.com/Examples_of_Bias_in_Wikipedia

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17740041/

I can go to wikipedia right now and pick a name like Jesse James and write on there that he was a spirit filled man of God who built orphanges and freed the slaves... and it would go on wikipedia without any checks or balances... and people world-wide would read it.

For the most part wikipedia is useful, but we do need to be careful.

Krispy

The First Christmas
Plain and Simple

Matt 1:18-25

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS.
KJV

Luke 2:1-11
2:1 And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed.
2(And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
3 And all went to be taxed, every one into his own city.
4 And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judaea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem; (because he was of the house and lineage of David:)
5 To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child.
6 And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.
7 And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.
8 And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night.
9 And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
10 And the angel said unto them, Fear not: for, behold, I bring you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people.
11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
KJV

I didnt... all I said is we need to be careful when we use wikipedia, and it wasnt in reference to anything you wrote, Ginny.

The Bible makes it quite clear that what you wrote was 100% accurate.

Krispy

Ginny, I was not aiming anything at anyone in particular on the wilkipedia comments. Actually I was not aware of who made what and when as I posted it. Just as Krispy said, I have no problems with your post or you.
Merry Christmas Sister.
moe_mac

This thread started out with an article by Charlie Daniels... and there was a little bit of discussion about Charlie... and thought that perhaps for those who can appreciate the man you would enjoy seeing a Christmas present that Charlie received last week.

Every year he has a Christmas benefit concert at the Grand Ole Opry in Nasheville TN, and the proceeds to go several charities that deal with sick children and children living in poverty. This video is from this years benefit concert, I think it was last week.

After Charlie and his band finished their first song for the evening, he was presented with an invitation to join the Grand Ole Opry... and it's neat to see this big ol' country boy get emtional on stage in front of all those people.

Very cool...

Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo6wOPaeD8g

Krispy

GlorytoGlory and others who are willing to accept the raw facts re: this abominable idolatry, so-called 'christmas'. It matters not who sees this thread as a light-hearted thread.The Truth is what really matters.

[i]Post edited by moderator, duplicate post can be found below[/i]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=21155&forum=35&post_id=165835&refresh=Go] Is Christmas Purely a Pagan Holiday?[/url]

[i]Post edited by moderator, duplicate post can be found below[/i]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=21155&forum=35&post_id=165835&refresh=Go] Is Christmas Purely a Pagan Holiday?[/url]

Ray... please dont post the same thing in multiple threads. It's more annoying than it is convincing. Especially since it appears that you didnt write any of this yourself, but copy/pasted it.

Love ya, bro.

Krispy

Is there a forum rule against this also or are you getting irritated by the truth? Are you making the rules as you go? You ought to consider what is being brought to your attention by several of God's dear ones rather than continuing attempts to defend one of your own idols. Worship God

Merry Christmas, Ray!

And no... I dont think there is a rule against what you're doing, which is why I said "Please"... it was a request. If it's your intention to be a nuisance, thats your business. But this is a nice thread where people are enjoying sharing with each other... and again, I simply request that you debate your Christmas issues on other threads where it is more fitting.

Whether or not you agree with us, thats ok... but trying to sabotage this thread isnt going to make folks want to hear what you have to say.

Krispy

Undisclosed Author

Christmas and Christianity in the Modern Culture

As our nation continues to drift into a state of secular monotony that guarantees that nobody is offended (unless you are a Christian), we are again witnessing many retailers deciding to abolish “Christmas” in favor of the “holiday season.”

Because Jesus Christ — the Son of God who came to earth to save us — does not meet contemporary criteria for “diversity” and “multiculturalism,” the day that bears His name is becoming increasingly unacceptable. And yet these retailers that want to take advantage of the Christmas tradition of gift giving have become painstakingly opposed to the mere mention of “Christmas.”

I certainly understand that Christmas has become largely plagued by consumerism in our modern culture. Nevertheless, I find it troubling that secularist engineers are recklessly encouraging American companies to sweep the term under the rug because it might be offensive to a few people.

This effort has seeped into virtually every part of our culture. On a radio commercial I heard this morning for a national restaurant, a female character declared “Happy Holidays” to her husband as she presented his presents to him. I was amazed that the restaurant ad would allude to the Christmas gift-giving tradition but reject the word “Christmas.”

As Christians, we must pledge ourselves to becoming proactive with our families, ensuring that our children and grandchildren understand the colossal Judeo-Christian influence on our nation’s founding. We must also teach them of their constitutional religious freedoms and rights to fearlessly live out their faith in Jesus Christ, even though they may face opposition. And, most importantly, we must make sure that our children understand that Jesus came to earth as a first step in providing the avenue to heaven for all who believe in Him.

And finally, in this land of the free, we must never be afraid to proclaim a “Merry Christmas!” to all!

Nowhere do I suggest in this statement that he is not. You have read your own thoughts into it. RayinPA

In no wise am I making an attempt to sabotage this thread. Your choice of a forum title caught my attention. If you didn't want anyone to oppose this abominable idolatry you ought to have chosen a less attractive title. But so be it, you have done what you have and I have done what I have. I will take your suggestion and go to another thread. RayinPA Predestination is a big word.

Perhaps the employer of each business should let each employee make their own decision in the manner in which they give the Christmas Greeting. It would be helpful information for each of us Christians to hear how they did it. It would give all Christians a chance to tell about the Savior. If one is opposed to showing honor and reverence to the birth of the Savior of the world, JMO opinion, methinks they maybe lost. Reason, I believe it is absolutely imperative to include the virgin birth in ones belief of Jesus as Lord and Savior. Although we may not know the exact date of HIS birth, we do know just at the right time( God's Timing) He sent HIS son born of a woman into the world to save sinners like all of us.
Gal 4:4-7
4 But when the time had fully come, God sent his Son, born of a woman, born under law, 5 to redeem those under law, that we might receive the full rights of sons. 6 Because you are sons, God sent the Spirit of his Son into our hearts, the Spirit who calls out, "Abba, Father." 7 So you are no longer a slave, but a son; and since you are a son, God has made you also an heir.
(from New International Version)
All of us a born of woman and a man, but Christ was born of a woman, minus a man, born of a virgin came to the world for the purpose of saving that which is lost. If we miss the virgin birth, they have missed the truth.
Also just the right time, the sent HIS SON to the cross.
Rom 5:6-8
6 You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7 Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
(from New International Version)

But he didn't stay there.
Rom 8:34-9:1
Christ Jesus, who died-more than that, who was raised to life-is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? 36 As it is written:

"For your sake we face death all day long;
we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered."

37 No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(from New International Version)

Merry Christmas everyone!!!!

So called Christians who bash Christmas are not doing any favours to the world that simply enjoy this time of the year. They don't understand what the birth of Jesus Christ is all about and why He came, nevertheless, they enjoy doing it. For so called believers to put down a celebration that most people enjoy makes no sense to the world. For all you Christmas haters out there, do what the Apostle Paul would do, use the moment to preach the gospel of the birth of Christ and why He came. If you know the exact date that he was born then you have an advantage. But since you don't, use this season instead. I am VERY sure that our LORD doesn't care what day we think He was born on. The fact remains, He was born.

1 Corinthians 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.

Hi all

I was going to post on "Is Christmas Purely a Pagan Holiday?" but it got locked!

No time to read the whole thread here, but maybe can add my two-pennyworth (or two cents worth if you're American)...

I thought that article on the other thread was well balanced on the whole.

Charlie Daniels' one is good too, (never heard of him before!)

So why does Christmas so frighten these people?

Could it be because Christmas signifies a real event? That a star in the Heavens that could only have been controlled by the Creator of the Universe shone down over the manger in Bethlehem where Jesus was born.

Personally re Christmas, I tend to be suspicious of the pagan origins of many of the symbols, but agree that why shouldn't we celebrate the birth of Christ - whatever the date?

The only danger, I believe, is that of spiritual mixture. It is possible that with some symbols and celebrations we may, even as Christians, honor (without being aware of it) paganism rather than Christ?

For pagan "gods" aren't fussy about who they accept worship off, or whether we mean to worship them or not, but will take any "crumbs" they can get.

Do we leave a mince pie and a glass of wine out for "Santa" for example? Isn't that actually an oblation to a false god?

How attenuated from its pagan roots does a symbol or custom have to become before it is rendered spiritually harmless? And if the pagan roots are revived and strengthened, as seems also to be happening these days, (paralleling the secular attempts to take Christ out of Christmas), what do we do then?

I'm not sure, but holly and mistletoe and leaving out cakes for Santa are out as far as I'm concerned.

But then, I don't have kids...

in Him

Jeannette

RobertW wrote:
One of my brothers commented that one of his favorite Christmas songs was the Little Drummer Boy by David Bowie and Bing Crosby. I had to agree. For kicks I looked it up on youtube to see the video. I have to say that I learned a lesson. Oh, I have sat among the nay-sayers that criticized Christmas as pagan and endured their hard looks and sayings.

I have always known that the people that celebrated Christmas had no idea of it's supposed origins. I recalled it's meaning from my childhood days. There is something about that time. When I watched that video of Bowie and Crosby it seems to me that Bowie was visibly touched by merely singing that song. Some of you may disagree, I suppose. But God has a way of touching people [i]through[/i] these means. And I think caution is in order when criticism of such things comes down and one ought to consider if mocking is in order when the slightest of steps towards God are taken by even the hardest of sinners.

I believe Bing Crosby died 1 month after their appearance together. After all, no doubt at times I sense the presence of God in a special way at Christmas. When families are together and looking to mend a years worth of trouble. Even fugitives try to return home to the family as a refuge many times and strike teams lie in wait. What a powerful time. I think so much is shrouded in mystery about it all. But at once I pray to God I never get so 'holy' that I feel exalted above calling to remembrance the coming of Christ. that I would look with disdain upon the rare occasion that so many families and brethren dwell safely together in unity and love. Perhaps if were willing, we may see in these times a foretaste of heaven and glory Divine.

Had to comment on this, especially:

When I watched that video of Bowie and Crosby it seems to me that Bowie was visibly touched by merely singing that song. Some of you may disagree, I suppose. But God has a way of touching people [i]through[/i] these means.

He was under deep conviction, and felt terrible, but managed to drag himself to church thinking he'd just read the service (it was Anglican) and not preach. Then when he read the text he thought he may as well say a few words on it. As he was speaking he suddenly "got it".

Someone in the congregation, (many of them had been praying for his salvation) realised what was happening and stood up shouting, "The parson's converted! Praise God, the parson's converted!" Instead of being offended at this "unseemly" interruption vicar Haslem joined in the praise, merely putting in the Doxology to make things a bit more "orderly"...

Who knows what God can do, through all kinds of means.

There was the Muslim lady who had a vision of Jesus who told her to read about Him in the Koran (she didn't have access to a Bible), and this alone started her wondering if Jesus must be greater than Mohammed because even the Koran said He did miracles, and Mohammed didn't!

Blessings

Jeannette

Compton wrote:

You have snow??

Yup. We are getting more tonight even.

For all of my fellow Sermon Indexers in the south, here is a little snow for you...taken tonight just down the street. :-)

thanks

Jeannette

richardf wrote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:

This is the coolest thread ...

I dont know, dude... with all these snow balls flyin' around, I'm thinking this may be the [i]coldest[/i] thread... :-P

Krispy

That's the sort of horrendously bad joke that my grandad always tells, and that's nothing to be proud of...

Jeannette :lol:

Isleander wrote:
As a Christian I HATE Christmas. Always have and always will. Christmas as the name tells us is Roman Catholic, not Christian, and as an ex-RC I am qualified to make such a statement. Do you really think that Christmas is something to celebrate? Everything to do with Christmas is of Pagan origin and is a counterfeit to Christianity. Jesus didn't die so that people could be anesthetized to the truth through this Pagan festival, but in order to awaken in us the need of salvation - when did Christmas ever do that?

As "...one day is no more holy than another, as all days are the gift of the Most High, do we continue to maintain a firm Christian witness that our members do not join in any public fasts, feasts, so-called holy-days and religious festivals (such as times called "Christmas" and "Easter" by some); for though exterior observances of a similar kind were once authorised under the law, as shadows of things to come, yet they who come to Christ will we believe assuredly find that in him all shadows end."

To acknowledge or to participate in this worldly festival is to add to the pure Gospel the beliefs and practices of Roman Catholicism and paganism. Christmas is an abomination and Christians should boycott it completely because it makes a complete mockery of true Christianity.

In theory I basically agree with you, (see my recent post). I also commend you for not personally attacking anyone or being rude as another poster of the same opinion (now "Anonymous") did.

I can also appreciate that, having come out of Catholicism, you are very sensitive to anything that suggests a return to the compromise with paganism that the RC Church shows.

What is the origin of this quote (below)? It sounds as if you belong to some particular grouping that rejects the celebratiohn of Christmas?

"...one day is no more holy than another, as all days are the gift of the Most High, do we continue to maintain a firm Christian witness that our members do not join in any public fasts, feasts, so-called holy-days and religious festivals (such as times called "Christmas" and "Easter" by some); for though exterior observances of a similar kind were once authorised under the law, as shadows of things to come, yet they who come to Christ will we believe assuredly find that in him all shadows end."

But how would you get anyone to agree on another date?

I think Paul should have the last word on debates such as this...

[color=990000]4 Who art thou that judgest another man’s servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.[/color]

Yours in Him

Jeannette

HomeFree89 wrote:

Personally, this Christmas season has been one of great rejoicing for me. It is my fifth Christmas as a Christian and it's been one of pondering what Jesus' advent meant to Him and us.

He left the glories of Heaven and the fellowship with His Father to come to this dark, decaying, and dying world to save us. So, we celebrate this time in His life and every other part, too.

Why not celebrate that Gift?

Jordan

Jeannette

glorytoglory wrote:

When I became a christian I too enjoyed christmas. I enjoyed celebrating the fact that not only did He die to save my soul He also left heaven to come to this earth to save my soul BUT this is something that I need to celebrate everyday and not turn into a holiday. God forbid I should say "let's celebrate His birth" when the apostle Paul said:

1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

The problem with making this a holy day, a feast and a national holiday like it has become now is that to the world, in thier eyes, it is a distraction from the cross, this is my concern.

The truth is only christians are enjoying the true meaning of christmas not the unsaved world.The unsaved world enjoys the gifts and santa clause ect...along with the christians.

I can't say for sure if it is doing more damage than good or visa versa. I will say that it is harming the church because we are compromising with the tree and the gifts ect.. which have nothing to do with clebrating the fact that He came.Also their are many other things this holiday brings that are infiltrating into the church. It's strange fire...

I don't condemn anyone who celebrates it, I just believe the church is better off without it. Of course the church is better off without alot of things. Since we live in America I guess we feel we have room for alot of things. :-(

in Him

Jeannette

swsojourner wrote:

the celebration of the feast of the nativity of Christ goes back before the fourth century.

"The present Feast, commemorating the Nativity in the flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, was established by the Church. Its origin goes back to the time of the Apostles. In the Apostolic Constitutions (Section 3, 13) it says, "Brethren, observe the feastdays; and first of all the Birth of Christ, which you are to celebrate on the twenty-fifth day of the ninth month." In another place it also says, "Celebrate the day of the Nativity of Christ, on which unseen grace is given man by the birth of the Word of God from the Virgin Mary for the salvation of the world."

In the second century St Clement of Alexandria also indicates that the day of the Nativity of Christ is December 25. In the third century St Hippolytus of Rome mentions the Feast of the Nativity of Christ, and appoints the Gospel readings for this day from the opening chapters of St Matthew.

In 302, during the persecution of Christians by Maximian, 20,000 Christians of Nicomedia (December 28) were burned in church on the very Feast of the Nativity of Christ."

Jeannette

ginnyrose wrote:
Jeannette,

Your post reminds me of a question that has been brewing in the back of my mind..perhaps you or someone else can answer it...

Is there a possibility these pagan gods and their myths have their roots in Judiasm? but have been greatly corrupted. All the devil does is pervert what God has done - he cannot do anything original, can he?

(I am not suggesting one give any credibility to pagan culture....am just wondering if they are not a perversion of something God has done...)

Just wondering...What do others think? or know?

ginnyrose

I don't really know any solid facts about this, except what is in the Bible, but it seems unlikely that these myths have their roots in Judaism, because many of the pagan gods were already around when God called Abraham.

Unless you mean the specifically pagan Christmas customs?

I would think that they all had their roots in paganism, not Judaism.

Although Satan did apparently take steps to confuse things before the birth of Christ by introducing myths into men's minds and culture.

About a mother goddess and her son for example, who died and was brought back to life.

Maybe you could clarify exactly what you are asking?

thanks

jeannette

Isleander wrote:
Hello Jeannette,

Thank you for your reply to my posting.

For me there is something that is seriously wrong with "Christmas." As I say I am an ex--Roman Catholic ('though have been born from above by the Seed of Christ now for over thirty-three years).
Having come to the Lord back in 1973, not only from a RC background but also having been involved in Hinduism, Buddhism, astrology, and other occult beliefs, and drugs associated with these religions, I saw clearly that all these so-called Christian festivals, like Roman Catholicism, had their roots in Pagan practices. Christmas is a revival of these pagan practices under the guise of being Christian. Which they certainly are not. I had a very deep concern (and still do) that people were recognizing and also celebrating a festival based upon demon worship. At the time God led my to Alexander Heslop and other Christian writers who explained in some detail the basis of these Roman Catholic beliefs, which are in fact a revival of the mystery religions; Babylonish, Greek, etc.

The Roman Catholic Church (which is itself a revival of Babylonish religion) deliberately linked Christian beliefs with these pagan festivals to draw people away from worshipping God to worshipping demons, and ultimately to the worship of Satan himself. For this reason Christians must reject this festival as also the festival of Ishtar (Easter) and other “saints days” etc. etc.

I am based near Bridgend, although originally from Barry!

The quote is from early Quaker literature. The Quakers (original Quakers, that is, not those parading as Quaker today) were raised up of God to speak out against the idolatry of religions, especially State religion, which dominated Britain at the time. George Fox and the early Quakers pointed men and women to Christ – looking unto Jesus the Author and finisher of faith – and away from the religions of men (which lead to bondage). Fox remonstrated with those who named the name of Christ, that ‘Jerusalem which is above is free’ and that people should not worship God in a man made Jerusalem (religion) which is in bondage with her children (Galatians 4) like the Jews. Any outward observance which distracted from the true inward kingdom of God was to be avoided if the children of light were to walk in the light as He is. (I John 1).

Because people have been brought up in the Christian religion and not in Christ they are unable to distinguish these things, and even those who are the children of Light (those who follow the True Light – Christ Jesus) can be distracted by those who claim to be walking in the light but are yet walking in the darkness of man-made religion.

If you go to our website ([url=www.calvaryholinessmission.org]http://www.calvaryholinessmission.org[/url]) there are some links to early Quaker writings which give more on this than I can provide here. However, I am not a Quaker in that I am not a member of the Society of Friends, but I am a Jew which is one inwardly (Rom. 2:28-29), which the Apostle Paul says is the only true qualifying factor for salvation – not religion.

Sincere regards – Alex (Isleander)

It does help to know where someone is coming from (not geographically in the first instance!)

Yes, you are right about the pagan origins of much of the "traditional" things of Christmas. If only it could be purely for the celebration of Christ's birth the day - even if it is the date of a major pagan festival - it wouldn't matter. But pagan things have a way of creeping back in if they have half a chance. Personally I don't see why the celebration shouldn't be on the dates of already established Jewish festivals.

Does anyone know why and when this was changed?

I know the RC Church mixed pagan and Christian things, much as the people in 2Kings 17:24ff did. They worshipped the Lord, but they [i]didn't[/i] worship the Lord, because they also kept the pagan gods and ways of worship as well. The RC Church is very like that. Yet there are true believers there, that's the strange thing. Why don't they come out as you did???

Re Christmas, the important question is to what degree, if any, is it OK to compromise? Do we celebrate Christ's birth on the usual date but avoid the tinsel, trees and stuff? Do we send cards and gifts in celebration of Him or do we avoid the whole thing completely?

Personally I would go for the first option, but is that because I'm a coward?!

The only problem in a thread like this is when people who disagree call each other heretics! Which you have not done :-)

I live a few miles from Swansea, on your side, so we are in the same general area. Maybe we could arrange to meet up some time? I quite often go past Bridgend on the M4, to visit friends in Cardiff.

yours in Him

Jeannette

Wow... Robert, excellent posts. Bravo. I have nothing to add.

The vast majority of Christians who have been willing to research this subject no longer acknowledge Christmas.

Is there anything to document this? Or are you just throwing that out there? I know many who have really delved into this, and every year we're forced to deal with this on this forum... and I dont know anyone who has stopped celebrating Christmas.

Krispy

Isleander wrote:
Jeannette,
The Apostolic Constitutions referred to by swsojourner, are not to be regarded as Christian as they are only traditions passed down apparently by the Apostles. But this is extremely doubtful. These "Constitutions" have in fact been accepted by the Roman Catholic Church as authorative. :-o

Thanks for the historical info and source, it's useful to have that.

Jeannette

RobertW wrote:
it is not a matter of anesthetizing the people to the truth but diluting it with the pollution of diversionary concepts (Santa, Rudolph, Frosty, etc.). The challenge for the Christian is not to allow those cultural aspects of Christmas to steer their focus from its true meaning.

Some friends prayed much about what to tell their little daughter about "Father Christmas", and it bore amazing fruit when a lady in the local post office asked her what "he" was bringing her for Christmas. The little one replied (confidentially) "Father Christmas isn't real - but [i][b]Jesus[/b][/i] is!"

Out of the mouth of babes...

Jeannette

1. I gently push the Bible in your direction and ask the question..."Show me." Where in the bible does Jesus, Himself, celebrate Christmas with the disciples or show them how to? If anybody knew how to glorify God throught His actions, it was Jesus. If this is such an important opportunity to glorify God.... where from the Bible (as a newish Christian) can I find Jesus doing this or teaching us how to do this, to fulful all obedience?

I'm not going to bother answering most of this because I think where you misunderstand those of us who celebrate Christmas is in the very last comment of your question. You ask: "to fulful all obedience?"

No one here said anything about obedience to God being a part of celebrating Christmas or not celebrate Christmas. In fact, those of us who do have been extremely clear that those who dont are not sinning. You are quite correct that there is no command in scripture to celebrate Christmas. There is no command that you wear a suit and tie to church either, yet many do... and many look down their noses at those who dont. (modesty being the exception because scripture does address that)

It is not, never has been, and never will be an issue of "obedience to God" whether one celebrates Christmas.

I celebrate Christmas everyday. If He hadnt been born in the City of David we would all be lost.

2. All those who celebrate Christmas... please tell me, how God told/taught you to do this. When you humbly cried out for understanding and sought His will in taking part in this festival........ What was His answer? What did He show you?

I think most of us have already answered that question by giving testimony that Christmas has provided most of us with great opportunities to share the gospel like no other time of the year. It also draws believers together, families together... and at times, as in WWI it brought peace in a time of war. I. myself, always set aside time with my wife for prayer and supplication on Christmas Eve, specifically meditating on what His arrival in this world has meant for us.

I've never thought to seek His councel as to whether I should keep Christmas or not because since the day I was saved Christmas to me has been all about Him anyway... and I know in my heart and in my spirit that He is honored by it. Why, when I am honoring His name, and ministering to others at the rescue mission on Christmas Day would I bother to ask Him if I'm sinning?

I am fully convinced that, for me, Christ is honored by the way I choose to keep Christmas. Nothing anyone can say will ever convince me otherwise.

And if someone, like yourself, is convinced that they should not keep Christmas... then I would say to you that you would be sinning against your own conscience if you DID keep Christmas.

But again, where I think you're misunderstanding us is that none of us have ever said a believer is being disobedient to God if they ignore Christmas. I dont believe that to be true, and neither does anyone else.

If someone wants to judge me as sinning, then I recommend that they take that to God because I am clean before my Lord... and I reject any condemnation that may come from mere mortal men.

Krispy

Well said RobertW. Oh if we could give many the eye suave Jesus spoke of to some people.

Every body want a pure religion? What do we know about a pure expression of religion? Shall we also cast off our shoes for sandals and clad ourselves in tha garb of the first century? Shall we put away our cars and walk on stone streets in order to feel more authentic in the expression of religion? Shall we throw out everything in our lives that are not found expressly in the scriptures? If we embark on this journey where will we end? And who will have the wisdom, judgment, discipline and equity to judge these things indiscriminately? Will you?

As I was reading your post, Robert, I was forming the same thoughts in my mind which you expressed in your last paragraph. If we take the line of reasoning which says "If it isnt seen in scripture then we shouldnt do it..." then where do we end up?

This is the reasoning that the Amish people have used. My question to the Amish (and if there are any Amish reading this... your busted!! lol) would be how did y'all decide that the 19th century farm technology was ok? Thats not in the scriptures either.

Jesus never told the disciples to use a printing press. The mode of writing scripture and copying scripture was quill and parchment. Should we still be doing it that way because thats what we see in scripture?

[b]James 1:27[/b] [i]Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.[/i]

This is how to live the Christian life right here in a nutshell.

And I dont know about other people, but considering how I personally keep Christmas, I can say that I am unspotted from the world in my celebration of it.

Krispy

undisclosed writer:

Five Facts about Christmas

With Christmas in America becoming heedlessly commercialized, secularized or even outright banned, I want to share five key facts about Christmas and the One whose very name is incorporated in this blessed day.

1. Jesus was God “manifest in the flesh” (I Timothy 3:16).

His birth was the realization of Old Testament prophecies which told of the coming of God to earth in human form. Jesus stated this Himself in Matthew 5:17 (“… I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill”).

Jesus came to earth in the most humble of circumstances, being literally born in a manger, linking Himself with the most common of peoples, indicating that His love is available to all.

2. Jesus was born of a virgin.

In fulfillment of Isaiah 7:14 (“Behold, a virgin shall conceive …”) God came in the personhood of Jesus. This prophecy was fulfilled when Mary “found favor with God” (Luke 1:30), and she conceived in her womb “the Son of the Highest.”

This is important because Jesus was the God-Man. He could not have retained His heavenly claim if he had been born of man, or born into sin with the nature of a mere man. Throughout His life, Jesus remained blameless so that He could fulfill His purpose.

3. Jesus came to earth with the sole purpose of dying for our sins.

The name of Jesus (Hebrew: Yehoshua) means “Jehovah Saves,” signifying that, as the Tim LaHaye Study Bible notes, “by His very name and nature” Jesus is “the Savior.”

Listen to Jesus describing His purpose: “For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”

Sin alienates us from God; and we all have sinned. But Jesus’ death and resurrection bridged the gap between heaven and hell for us. This is the beauty of the Christmas story. The King of Kings willingly came to earth as a humble servant to save you and me.

4. Jesus is real.

Jesus’ life is not a fable or an allegory. The New Testament accounts of Jesus’ life are written by four eye witnesses to His earthly ministry. Josh McDowell states, “The New Testament has more manuscript authority than any piece of literature from antiquity.” So we have reliable historic evidence of the fact of Jesus’ life. Further, He was seen by hundreds of people (I Corinthians 15: 5-8) following His death on the cross, meaning that His resurrection, his conquering of the tomb, was indeed factual.

He lived. He willingly died. And He lives again! And through faith in Him, we too are freed from the awful power of death.

5. Jesus is reaching out to you.

This is the most important message of Christmas. No matter your race, creed, heritage, background or station in life, His love is available to you. Just as Jesus was born in Bethlehem some 2,000 years ago, if you don’t know Him, He can be born into your heart and life.

The most well known verse in the Bible, John 3:16, tells us the way to know Jesus Christ as your Savior: “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Did anyone see the interview with Barbara Walters where she was offended by a Christmas card that was sent to her by President Bush and the First Lady Laura Bush. It had scripture on it, can you believe that and she was offended. She was talking about being so proud of the one Elton John sent her that was lacking in any reference to what Christmas was all about. I can only imagine what Elton had on it.
God open her eyes please.
moe_mac

Elton John... yea, now there's someone who understands what that line in Deck The Halls is all about. You know the line... [i]"Don we now our gay apparel..."[/i]

Barbara Walters? She still alive?

Krispy