False Prophets - False Teachers

After seeing and being apart of many threads about certain "ministers" or "pastors" with people either saying they are false, and some saying no they are not i started wondering.

How do we discern who is false? how do we judge who is satan disguised as an angel of light? or from whom we should withdraw from?

My wish is not to bash a certain minister or pastor or church or denomination or anything of the sort. But rather discuss how to obey all the commandments in scripture from Jesus himself and the apostles to be watching out from these who will deceive many.

And seek out what scripture CLEARLY teaches about these things.

This verse to me speaks about those who preach "get rich gospels" from such run away. If they say belive in God he will make you rich and those gospels....

1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

then we have the wolves
how do we know who these are?

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.

And Jesus also said this: to me this is a very serious thing he says "take heed", take extra special effort making sure no one deceives you. Many shall be claiming to serve Christ but in reality serve satan.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

and here we have many who actually belive they are serving the real Jesus, but are decived

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

and this one, how can we recognize or expose satan when trying to come to us as an angel of light?

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

Please try avoid naming names or ministries if possible please. Thank you

The Apostle Psul came against a few elements of his day 1)those who were legalistic, those who added circumcision and the law to the gentile church inorder to be saved. They had changed simple faith into a works religion, we have that today also. 2)those who mishandled the word of God 1Ti 6:3 If anyone teaches other doctrine and does not agree with the sound teaching of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the teaching that promotes godliness,
The teachings that don't promote godliness, that's the real bench mark for church doctrine, many of the prosperity teachings have an element of truth but are easy enough to turn toward the sinfulness of mans flesh, which is what is happening. 3) Jud 1:4 For certain men, who were designated for this judgment long ago, have come in by stealth; they are ungodly, turning the grace of our God into promiscuity and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
These men pervert the gospel to a self serving gospel that eventually denies Jesus entirely, we see that through doctrines that accept certain parts of the gospel but than deny the ressurrection or maybe the virgin birth or some other pivitol element in church doctrine, they breed doubt in the heart and mind of those who follow them. There's more but this is a good quick list
:-) :-)

hmmhmm wrote:
After seeing and being apart of many threads about certain "ministers" or "pastors" with people either saying they are false, and some saying no they are not i started wondering.

How do we discern who is false? how do we judge who is satan disguised as an angel of light? or from whom we should withdraw from?

I personally think "NotMe" said it best on another thread:
From NotMe:
Paul warned the Corinthians about claiming to be followers of different teachers (some said they were of Apollos, other of Paul, third of Christ), for this divisiveness was a sign of their carnality. The Lord Jesus Himself knew what was in man and didn't commit Himself to any man (John 2:24-25). Neither should we, but we have one Teacher, the Christ (Matthew 23:8). The question is that as long as we trust in the authority of men more than in God, we are sure to be deceived, one way or another. You choose whether you are going to make some man's authority truth for yourself or make the Truth your only authority. Authority before men is worth nothing, regardless of what people--or the majority of people--may say. One day we will all appear before the judgement seat of Christ to give an account of what we've done in the flesh, to be confronted with Truth Himself, and what shall we do then with our doctrines, and beliefs, and preferences?

HE_Reigns wrote:
I believe brother, that the Lord gives His Sheep, who hear His Voice and won't follow another voice - Discernment.

[b]2Co 11:3-4[/b] [color=990000]But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his cunning, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
[b]:4[/b] For if he that comes preaches another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if you receive another spirit, which you have not received, or another gospel, which you have not accepted, you might well bear with him.[/color]

These Churches were of "His Sheep".
Don't be so bold as to say that those who are following some False Prophets or False Teachers are not HIS own.

False Prophets & False Teachers are rampant in the Philippines, there is not a "sound" church there accept for maybe a few. However, there are more of His "sheep" than one might expect.

There is a state of one's spirit where they have calloused themselves to the Spirit of Truth so many times, that they are not considered His Sheep.

Who's Randles and whats ACT?

In the "end" - His Sheep will not follow another.

I really wish it was that simple, to say that everyone that follows a false doctrine or false teacher is false, but it is not, in the communion table of the Lord there is a principle of chastisement unto death (1Co 11:30 This is why many are sick and ill among you, and many have fallen asleep.) that needs to be noticed, this was to spare the person on the day of the ressurection so that they would not be judged with the world. The same will hold true for many who are duped by false teachers and false prophets. They'll partake of the wrong communion and be sickly and sleep for it but they themselves will be spared on the day of judgement, the Lord knowing the thougts and the intents of thier hearts.
Generally speaking>>>this is a blanket statement>>>not directed at anyone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The trouble as I see it in many that post so strongly against False Teachers and False Prophets or false whatevers is that by the end of the day everything is false, everyone in anykind of leadership is false and the person posting always is really one of the few who has the ultimate truth which leads to salvation, but they themselves have no disciples, generally speaking, and they aren't out actively seeking the misguided masses who are being lead by these false teachers and prophets. Which really makes thier sin greater by comparision than that of the false teachers and prophets, since they knew the way and did nothing to stop the misguided.

I would say that to stay free from deception one must be careful that they do not become fixated on only one form of deception. Most who frequent this site seem to be passionately opposed to the errors of Joel Osteen and the Rick Warren types, but these are just one of many deceptive teachings out there. An over emphasis on any one truth will always lead to a neglect of another. An over emphasis on "holiness" (which is typically seen not through the lens of NT scripture but rather through the writings and preaching of "holiness" preachers...) is just as dangerous as an over emphasis on grace. The majority of the errors Paul countered were not those in the "greasy grace" genre, (although he certainly did confront this...) or the prosperity types. Rather his biggest "beef" seemed to be with the legalists and those pseudo-watchmen types who took away the brides cloak of imparted and imputed righteousness by constantly beating the self-denial drum. (SOS 5:7-)

Perverted prosperity messages, greasy grace/seeker sensitive types, and watchman wannabe's are all in the same category to me. One is not more dangerous than the other. One leads you into selfish materialism, one leads you into lasciviousness, and one leads you into legalistic bondage, cross mocking, worship of the human will (yes even the calvinist), and ultimately far from the face of Jesus.

It is important to be balanced! So many of us live on the defensive instead of the offensive. Everything we do is in RESPONSE or in REACTION to sometime someone else did. We are always countering the false. This can ultimately lead to the creation of error in the name of correcting error. Most errors are just exaggerated versions of the truth (although this is certainly not always the case). Most error can be corrected by adding something more to the diet instead of subtracting. When we subtract in response or reaction to error, we are always left with a mutilated portion of the gospel.

I was getting really close to error once in my life because I developed an unhealthy addiction to repentance preaching. It was ALL that I listened to. If every message was not a slam in the face, I counted it as being compromised, cupcake Christianity. But why was I so addicted? I would search my heart for every little impure motive, every area of secret sin, you name it, I searched it out. Yet I was living a moral life as much like Jesus as I knew how. I had so separated myself from anything that may have smelled similar to something that looked like it may have smelled like something that tasted like deception, that I was missing about 99.9% of the gospel. I was living off of the "foundation of repentance from dead works..." (Heb 6) which the scriptures encourage us to grow beyond.

I was stuck. Yet in the midst of it I had truly deceived myself into thinking I was right and everyone else wrong. I would not even witness many times out of fear that my witnessing was being done out of impure motives. Sometimes even praying was fearful! Was I praying so that I would be anointed by God so that when I stood in the pulpit to preach men would look at me and say "What a holy man of God!"? AHH! Even my prayers and desire for intimacy with God had impure motives behind them! This constant examination of the motives and "navel gazing" had me crippled and dying. I was desperate to be more like Jesus and for revival. I prayed and fasted and fasted and prayed. Yet my doctrine was horrible. I reveled in concepts like "dying daily", "crucifying the old man" etc... I had no idea that these were total misinterpretations of scripture. Maybe that was why I felt so stuck!

I've come to see that those who are most desperate for genuine revival and most hungry to bear and manifest the character of Christ are also typically those who really don't know the true gospel of the NT but only that of the holiness camp. I have discovered that most of what is taught as "holiness" and the "deeper life" (by the way-since when are elementary truths the "deeper life"?) could not realy be seen through the teachings of Paul and the apostles when taken by themselves. It was only in addition to the writings and teachings of those with a repentance fetish that I could see the scriptures saying those things.

In Song of Solomon 5:7- , the woman tells of how she is desperately searching for the one her soul loves. (as i was) When she encountered watchmen who beat her, bruised her, and took away her robe. It is often those who are most desperately seeking Jesus who fall into the hands of abusive watchmen. The scripture says that the "bruised" her. Bruising is indicative of internal bleeding. It's an interesting note that she DID not have these internal problems until she met up with the "watchmen". In my life I was actually living in much more victory over sin, much greater intimacy with God, much greater efficacy in witnessing and preaching before I encountered the watchmen - the unbalanced holiness message. But the unbalanced words bruised me and actually created within me problems that were not there before. I was just lead to believe it was the "self-life". Then my robe of righteousness was stolen. I could no longer see myself through the blood of Jesus - only the bruised condition the watchmen had left me in.

I write this only to say that I was nearly deceived by a more subtle form of deception. It wasn't gross prosperity or greasy grace - rather it was an over emphasis on the elementary truth of repentance. The less I tinker with the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and the more I simply find my pleasure in intimacy with God in the garden, the more holy I live!

these are just my thoughts,
God Bless!
Jeff

Found an interesting and powerful word by Art Katz

(The Testimony of Jesus is the Spirit of Prophecy)[url=ttp://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=5806&commentView=itemComments]Against false prophets[/url]

Logic wrote:

HE_Reigns wrote:
I believe brother, that the Lord gives His Sheep, who hear His Voice and won't follow another voice - Discernment.

What was Galatians about? Or 2 Corinthians for that matter?

[b]2Co 11:3-4[/b] [color=990000]But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his cunning, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
[b]:4[/b] For if he that comes preaches another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if you receive another spirit, which you have not received, or another gospel, which you have not accepted, you might well bear with him.[/color]

These Churches were of "His Sheep".
Don't be so bold as to say that those who are following some False Prophets or False Teachers are not HIS own.

False Prophets & False Teachers are rampant in the Philippines, there is not a "sound" church there accept for maybe a few. However, there are more of His "sheep" than one might expect.

But does not Paul indicate that maybe the belivers in corinth, or some of them was not his sheep?

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

[b][url=http://www.benisrael.org/writings/online_books/anatomy_of_deception/taod_contents.html]The Anatomy of Deception[/url] by Art Katz[/b]

2Pe 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly [b]bring in[/b] destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
2Pe 2:3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

It seems to me we have to watch out when someone or when something new is "brought in". Something which was not there from beginning.

2Pe 2:10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,

And here it speaks about such teachers make our own flesh and lust and our self the center of attention

this whole chapter is interesting i think when talking about this

2Pe 2:1 But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2Pe 2:2 And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed.
2Pe 2:3 By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.
2Pe 2:4 For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment;
2Pe 2:5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly;
2Pe 2:6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly;
2Pe 2:7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked
2Pe 2:8 (for that righteous man, dwelling among them, tormented his righteous soul from day to day by seeing and hearing their lawless deeds)--
2Pe 2:9 then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment,
2Pe 2:10 and especially those who walk according to the flesh in the lust of uncleanness and despise authority. They are presumptuous, self-willed. They are not afraid to speak evil of dignitaries,
2Pe 2:11 whereas angels, who are greater in power and might, do not bring a reviling accusation against them before the Lord.
2Pe 2:12 But these, like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed, speak evil of the things they do not understand, and will utterly perish in their own corruption,
2Pe 2:13 and will receive the wages of unrighteousness, as those who count it pleasure to carouse in the daytime. They are spots and blemishes, carousing in their own deceptions while they feast with you,
2Pe 2:14 having eyes full of adultery and that cannot cease from sin, enticing unstable souls. They have a heart trained in covetous practices, and are accursed children.
2Pe 2:15 They have forsaken the right way and gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;
2Pe 2:16 but he was rebuked for his iniquity: a dumb donkey speaking with a man's voice restrained the madness of the prophet.
2Pe 2:17 These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
2Pe 2:18 For when they speak great swelling words of emptiness, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through lewdness, the ones who have actually escaped from those who live in error.
2Pe 2:19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by whom a person is overcome, by him also he is brought into bondage.
2Pe 2:20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
2Pe 2:22 But it has happened to them according to the true proverb: "A dog returns to his own vomit," and, "a sow, having washed, to her wallowing in the mire."

I think one of the main characteristics of false prophet is preaching peace when there is no peace. Preaching material prosperity, when calamity and judgement is coming. Preaching that you are healthy when you are sick and you are to die in your sins. Preaching that you are rich and you are good, when you are blind, and miserable, and poor. This is called false security, this lie to the core. This is tragedy by any means. Because sudden tragedy will come.

Jer 14:13 Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, [b]the prophets say unto them,[/b] Ye shall not see the sword, neither shall ye have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.

Jer 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
Jer 14:15 Therefore [b]thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that prophesy in my name, and I sent them not,[/b] yet they say, [b]Sword and famine shall not be in this land;[/b] By sword and famine shall those prophets be consumed.
Jer 14:16 [b]And the people to whom they prophesy [/b]shall be cast out in the streets of Jerusalem because of the famine and the sword; and they shall have none to bury them, them, their wives, nor their sons, nor their daughters: for I will pour their wickedness upon them.

In other words, false prophet and a teacher gives you false comfort. It makes you comfortable in your sins and it leads you to hell and eternal destruction.

The Lord already warned us, we are without excuse, we are given enough admonition to recognize the false prophets.

2Ti 4:3 [b]For the time will come[/b] when they will not endure sound doctrine; but [b]after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; [/b]
2Ti 4:4 And they shall [b]turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.[/b]
2Ti 4:5 [b][u]But watch thou in all things,[/u][/b] endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Here is the test. Is he itching your ears, leaving you comfortable in the way you are living in your sin? If yes, then run for your life with all your might.

If he is not speaking to you about the wrath of God, His righteousness, His holiness, His justice, your sin, you wretchedness, your need of mercy and grace in the light of His wrath! Run from him and save your life.

[b]A PLEAD TO THE PASTORS/TEACHERS/PROPHETS[/b]

Dear Pastor,

Preach to me no more sermons on God’s love, unless it is accompanied by a message of His holiness. Preach to me no more sermons of His amazing grace without mentioning from what His grace saves me. Preach to me no more sermons of my Lord’s mercy except it be contrasted with what He would otherwise be just and righteous to do.

I cannot understand this God of love without hearing of His many other characteristics. My God is woefully complex, but He has been reduced to a god of mere sentiment and romance, which god has no power to save. Explain to me the wrathful God of the Old Testament. Acquaint me with His jealousy; why is His Name Jealous? When God says He “hates,” tell me what is it He despises? Show me His anger in full that I might know the object of this anger and avoid it in my own life. Don’t down play and trivialize His anger, I know He doesn’t change.

Show me the horrors of hell that I might truly prize my salvation and seek to share Him with others. Teach me to be hopeful of Judgment Day but to share with those whom are lost they should greatly fear it. Declare God’s holy commandments that I might have a portrait of His purity and holiness and conversely, that I might know what sin is. Proclaim to me my sin – that I lie, that I cheat, that I hate and covet. Tell me of my helplessness to keep said commandments that you might impress upon me my dire need of a Savior.

Once I have a grasp of the abomination of sin, then and only then, show me my Savior! When I fully comprehend the depth and breadth of my personal sin, my original sin, my self-righteousness and my unbelief, then the Gospel will really be Good News! When I realize my nakedness before God, my utter bankruptcy with respect to sin, I might esteem my deliverance utterly. Pastor, teach me the meaning of repentance, that I might truly be forgiven. Show me true humility that I might know its semblance.

Declare to me the offense of the cross and expound upon its meaning. Tell me, Pastor, why does it offend? Don’t merely tell me this is God’s love; help me to see His perfect justice in this Event. Describe for me also the representation of His holiness and righteousness at Calvary. Explain to me that this is what I have escaped through a life laid down for Christ; that this is the hell I deserved and instead Jesus took the punishment. Tell me that on that day, He became sin for sinners.

Then permit me to see by example how to live for this beautiful Savior. Help me to see in you the life of the redeemed. Show me your love for the lost; teach me likewise how to pour out my heart for them.

Then finally, tell me of God’s wonderful love for me. Then I think I will really understand “how great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God!” Then I know I will understand. Then I will be truly in His loving grip.

[b][url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=19934&forum=35#155687]Digged from SI archive.[/url][/b]

Just wanted to add Jesus' own words to the 7 churches in Revelation. I see those 7 churches as always having exsisted even to the present time. It's worth the read, as Bro. Ron Bailey says, read it more slowly.

generally when pastors preach to their congregations they are preaching to saved people. hence people that should be taught to repent without the help of a pastor.
Otherwise people will go to church to hear all the bad and how bad they are and I suppose this type preaching if not accompanied by an alter call leaves the saint condemed.

David

FireinmyBones1 or Jeff that was a really good Honest, Genuine, Sincere, Humbling, Self examining post, we need more like this here.
Thanks
Mr. Bill

by psalm1 on 2007/12/11 7:25:18

generally when pastors preach to their congregations they are preaching to saved people. hence people that should be taught to repent without the help of a pastor.
Otherwise people will go to church to hear all the bad and how bad they are and I suppose this type preaching if not accompanied by an alter call leaves the saint condemed.

David

paul in acts 20:27 says that he declared to them the full counsel of God. how many people can say that they hear the full counsel from the pulpit on sundays?? praise God that some do, but some do not. we need to hear the good and the bad (as some call it).

i don't think the type of preacher is what matters (ex. repentance, grace, etc), but rather preaching the word the Holy Spirit desires for you to give. being obedient to the Lord, saying what He wants you to say, ya know? and if one is doing that, they will declare all the will and counsel of God.

just some thoughts,
phil

The signs of a flesh-pleaser or sensualist are these:

1. When a man in his desire to please his appetite, does not do it with a view to a higher end, that is to say to the preparing himself for the service of God; but does it only for the delight itself. (Of course no one does every action conciously with a view to the service of God. Nevertheless, the general manner or habit of a life spent in the service of God is absent for the flesh-pleaser.)

2. When he looks more eagerly and industriously after the prosperity of his body than of his soul.

3. When he will not refrain from his pleasures, when God forbids them, or when they hurt his soul, or when the necessities of his soul call him away from them. But he must have his delight whatever it costs him, and is so set upon it, that he cannot deny it to himself.

4. When the pleasures of his flesh exceed his delights in God, and his holy word and ways, and the expectations of endless pleasure. And this not only in the passion, but in the estimation, choice, and action. When he had rather be at a play, or feast, or other entertainment, or getting good bargains or profits in the world, than to live in the life of faith and love, which would be a holy and heavenly way of living.

5. When men set their minds to scheme and study to make provision for the pleasures of the flesh; and this is first and sweetest in their thoughts.

6. When they had rather talk, or hear, or read of fleshly pleasures, than of spiritual and heavenly delights.

7. When they love the company of merry sensualists, better than the communion of saints, in which they may be exercised in the praises of their Maker.

8. When they consider that the best place to live and work is where they have the pleasure of the flesh. They would rather be where they have things easy, and lack nothing for the body, rather than where they have far better help and provision for the soul, though the flesh be pinched for it.

9. When he will be more eager to spend money to please his flesh than to please God.

10. When he will believe or like no doctrine but "easy-believism," and hate mortification as too strict "legalism." By these, and similar signs, sensuality may easily be known; indeed, by the main bent of the life.

R.Baxter

I found this article, and it was very interesting and good

The Distinguishing Marks of False Teachers by Thomas Brooks

'But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.' 2Peter2:1-3

Satan labors with all his strength by false teachers, which are his messengers and ambassadors, to deceive, delude and forever destroy the precious souls of men. The prophet Jeremiah declared, 'And I have seen folly in the prophets of Samaria; they prophesied in Baal, and caused my people Israel to err.' (Jeremiah 23;13). And through the prophet Micah, the Lord himself complained 'Thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that make my people err,' (Micah 3.5a). They seduce them and carry them out of the right way into by-paths and blind thickets of error, blasphemy and wickedness, where they are lost forever. Jesus Himself warned, 'Beware of false prophets which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves' (Matthew 7:15) These scoundrels lick and suck blood of souls, 'Beware of dogs, beware of evil workers,' (Phil. 3:2) These evil men kiss and kill; they cry, 'Peace, Peace' until souls fall into everlasting flames (see Proverbs 7) Now the best way to deliver poor souls from being deluded and destroyed by these messengers of Satan is to display them in their true colors, so that being known poor souls may shun them, and flee from them as hell itself. Now you may know a false teacher by the following distinguishing marks.

1. The first distinguishing mark is that they are men-pleasers. They preach more to please the ear than to profit the heart. Isaiah thus described the longing of God's rebellious people. 'Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:' (lsaiah 30:10). And again the Lord complained through Jeremiah in these words; 'A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means, and my people love to have it so and what will ye do in the end thereof?' (Jer 5.30,31) These men handle the holy things rather with wit and entertainment than with godly fear and reverence. False teachers are soul-destroyers. They are like evil surgeons, that skin over the wound, but never heal it. Flattery destroyed Ahab and Herod, Nero and Alexander. False teachers are hell's great enrichers. It is not bitter, but flattering words which do all the mischief, said Valerian, the Roman emperor. Such smooth teachers are sweet soul-poisoners (Jeremiah 23:16,17)

2. The second distinguishing mark of false teachers is that they are notable for casting dirt, scorn and reproach upon the person, names, and credits of Christ's most faithful ambassadors. Thus Korah, Dathan, and Abiram charged Moses and Aaron that they took too much upon themselves, seeing all the congregation was holy (Numbers 16:3). 'You take', they said, 'too much state, too much power, too much honor, too much holiness on you; for what are you more than others, that you take so much upon you?' And likewise Ahab's false priests fell, upon good Micaiah, paying him with fits and fists instead of a reasonable reply (see I Kings 22 10-26). Yes, even Paul, that great apostle of the Gentiles, had his ministry undermined and his reputation blasted by false teachers: 'For his letters,' they say, 'are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible.' (2 Corinthians 10:10). They rather despise him than admire him; they look upon him as a dunce rather than a doctor. And indeed the same harsh treatment had our Lord Jesus from the scribes and Pharisees, who labored as if their life depended on it, to construct their own esteem upon the ruins of His reputation. And never did the devil have a more prosperous business in this way than he does in these days ( Matthew 27:63). Oh, the dirt, the filth, the scorn that is thrown upon those of whom the world is not worthy! I suppose false teachers fail to consider that saying of Augustine 'He that willingly takes my good name unwillingly adds to my reward'

3. The third distinguishing mark of false teachers is that they spew out the devices and visions of their own heads and hearts. The Lord said to me. 'Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name I sent them not, neither have commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.' (Jeremiah 14:14). 'Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the Lord.' (Jeremiah 23:16). Are there not multitudes in this nation whose visions are but golden delusions, lying vanities, brainsick fantasies? These are presently Satan's great benefactors, but one day divine justice will hang them up in hell as the greatest malefactors, unless the physician of souls graciously delivers them.

4. The fourth distinguishing mark of false teachers is that they easily pass over the great and weighty things both out of the law and the gospel, and dwell mostly upon these things that are of the least importance and concern to the souls of men. Thus Paul warned Timothy: 'Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned: From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling. Desiring to be teachers of the law, understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.' (I Timothy 1:5-7). And our Lord rebuked the Pharisees: 'Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees. hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy and faith: these ought ye have done, and not to leave the other undone.' (Matthew 23:23). False teachers are meticulous in the lesser things of the law, and quite negligent in the greatest! Once more the Apostle Paul spoke strong words to Timothy when he said: 'If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness, He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself' (I Timothy 6:3-5). If such false teachers are not genuine hypocrites, I know nothing (Romans 2:21.22). The earth groans to bear such wicked men, and hell is fitted for them.

5. The fifth distinguishing mark of false teachers is that they cleverly disguise their dangerous principles and soul-deceiving notions with very attractive speeches and golden expressions. Many in these days are bewitched and deceived by the magnificent words, lofty strains- and stately terms of deceivers, such as illumination, revelation, and deification. As harlots paint their faces and adorn and perfume their beds, the better to allure and deceive simple souls, so false teachers will put a great deal of paint and garnish upon their most dangerous principles and blasphemies, in order that they may better deceive and delude poor ignorant souls. They know that sugared poison goes down sweetly: they wrap up their pernicious, soul-killing pills in gold. In the days of Hadrian the emperor, there was a man Ben-Cosbi who gathered a multitude of Jews together, and called himself Bencocuba, the son of a star, applying the promise of Numbers 24:17 to himself, but he proved to be Bar~chosaba, the son of a lie. And so will all false teachers, for all their lofty expressions will prove at last to be the sons of lies.

6. The sixth distinguishing mark of false teachers is that they strive more earnestly to win men over to their opinions, than to improve their behavior. The Lord Jesus again spoke with soberness when He said 'Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves' (Matthew 23:15). They busy themselves, most about men's heads. Their work is not to better men's hearts and mend their lives; and in this they are much like their father the devil, who will spare no pains to gain converts.

7. The seventh distinguishing mark of false teachers is that they exploit their followers through covetousness. The Apostle Peter, nearing his own death (see 2 Peter 1:12-15), warned his followers: 'But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall he evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.' (2 Peter 2:1-3). They eye your goods more than your good; and care more for serving themselves, than the saving of your souls. So long as they have your possessions, they care not that Satan possess your souls (Revelation 18:11-13). In order that they may better pick your pocket, they will hold forth such principles as are very indulgent to the flesh. False teachers are the great worshippers of the golden calf, as the Lord declares: 'For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness, and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely' (Jer.6: 13). Crates threw his money into the sea, resolving to drown it, lest it should drown him. But false teachers care not who they drown, so long as they may have their money.

Now by these seven distinguishing marks you may know false teachers, shun them and so deliver your souls out of their dangerous snares. And that you may, my prayers shall meet yours at the throne of grace.

Thomas Brooks

Ultimately false teaching is best recognized when you are intimately acquainted with the truth. Think of the proverbial movie script in which two seemingly identical persons switch places for an extended period of time. When people get suspicious they come to notice that the person is missing the tell-tale birthmark (or some other exclusive feature) that the real person bore. (Sorry for the cheesy example...)

The point: they were so intimately acquainted with the truth, down to little details like unsees birthmarks, that they could distinguish the true from the false.

Likewise the best way to avoid deception is to love and explore truth to it's depths. Do not spend your time studying about deception or fearing deceivers - rather delight yourself in the truth of God's word.

The best way to distinguish a true from a counterfeit bill is to know the distinguishing marks of a true bill. It is not in knowing the blemishes that may or may not mar the appearance of a fake - but it is in knowing the characteristics that ONLY a true bill carries.

My advice - love truth! Devour the scriptures and bask in the presence of the Holy Spirit that he may teach you what they mean. Do not go on doctrinal witch hunts, because you will burn MANY innocent brothers and sisters. You will also create grave error in your crusade against error. More truths get stomped on during doctrinal crusades than at any other time.

Just my thoughts,
God Bless
Jeff

Dear brother,
I certainly didn't mean to discount the great job that many godly discernment ministries do. I do occasionally take issue with some of what I read for I have known some things to be posted that are either downright lies or that have been truly and publicly repented of by the accused parties.

My reason in saying what I said was because I truly think that is the best way to avoid deception. Surround yourself with tried and true biblical teachers, voraciously study the scriptures for yourself as a berean, fall madly in love with Jesus, and find your greatest pleasure in His presence. Certainly though, we must be as wise as serpents while maintaining our "dove-like" innocence. Sometimes that's a hard balancing act. Sometimes I have found (in my own life) when I get to wrapped up in identifying deception, I may have been as wise as a serpent, but I lost my dovelike innocence.

does that make any sense?
God bless,
Jeff

Amen!
And WOOPS! I should have headed the last post with: "Dear SISTER"! I'm sorry! :)
God bless,
Jeff

I thought i post this excerpt from a book by Art Katz, I think it is a good read for all of us

"As we come to the end of the age, we must be particularly wary of the phenomena of ‘lying’ signs, wonders and miracles. If there is a void in our lives, if our present church life is dull, and we are not receiving in our relationship with the saints the kinds of things that should constitute the true and apostolic life of believers that makes for our maturity, engaging our spirits and minds and the totality of our being, we will have an itch to fill that void with running to the venues where such impressive demonstrations of power are being displayed; we will be drawn to individuals who seem to have it, and to ministries that demonstrate it. We will be open receptors for this because of the condition of our inadequate conventional Christian life. One of the preventives, therefore, is the work of God in our churches, so that we do not have to find compensation outside of them.

To maintain and guard our spirits, to grow in the nurture and admonition of the Lord cannot be performed in an environment of a Sunday service and a mid-week Bible study. True church is not a Sunday supplement. We are coming to the end of the age! God has great purposes to consummate through the Church, but only that remnant of the Church that knows Him and will do great exploits out of that knowledge, and that knowledge only. Paul understood this when he said, “that I might know Him and the fellowship of His sufferings!” There is a knowledge of God in His sufferings that is so exquisite, and it is not to be obtained from any other source. What is our present attitude to the sufferings of Christ? Have we been inducted into the mind-set of the world with its pursuit of pleasure and the avoidance of pain, protecting our life, our privacy, and guarding ourselves lest there be any injury or pain? No wonder that much of the Church is hardly more than a conglomerate of individualities living their privatistic lifestyles. Where is the Church of the apostolic kind where those who believed were together?

And with great power the apostles were giving witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and abundant grace was upon them all (Acts 4:33).

We are going to have to break down the brick walls we have built, and the sanctity of our separate and privatistic lives, contrary to the ethos, character and genius of true church. True church is a suffering before it is a glory, just by what we are in ourselves, together, in the intensity of that life, and until we will go that way, we will not move anybody to jealousy, certainly not Jews.

When we see a phenomenon touted as revival, in which the word of God is conspicuously absent, or denigrated as not being the source of God’s greatest blessing, our alarm bells should start ringing. When those who are at the forefront of any revival phenomenon begin to deprecate their own preaching, saying that what they are now seeing far eclipses any result that they saw from their preaching, then we have already embraced a deception. If the avenues by which the ‘blessing’ comes are not the word of God, or our response to God’s word, which has always been the operative principle of God, but rather, it comes through the hearing of the testimony of others, or seeing men decompose before one’s eyes in drunken stupor, sagging and collapsing on the platform, accompanied by shrieks of delight and the inducement to join in, then we have already crossed an invisible line of truth. It may be an avenue of receiving alleviation from dullness and boredom from church programs, but we have already succumbed to deception.

Even if what we have been observing in recent years is not the lying signs and wonders about which we have been warned as characteristic of the Last Days, when those lying signs and wonders do come, how will they be substantially different in form and appearance from the signs and wonders we presently see? And how will we exercise then the discernment that we are incapable of exercising now? When the lying signs and wonders come, will we recognize them? There will be signs, wonders, miracles, demonstrations of power and much ‘benefit’! But they will be lying signs and wonders, and if we are concerned only with the benefit of them, and not all that much with their source, will we be able to discern the one from the other?

There is a gift of discernment, but there is also an exercise of discernment that is corporate, that is somehow the reflection of the stature, quality and maturity of the corporate people of God. Are we able to discern not only the things that are evil, but the things that are ‘good’? The things that are good are most likely to trap us. It is ‘good’ to go here; it is ‘good’ to do this, and it is ‘good’ to take care of that need. But it is ‘good’ that will be our undoing because evil is so much more blatant and evident. The ‘good’ thing is the most difficult to discern unless our discernment has been strengthened by the exercise thereof. Is ‘good’ good enough? Unless we have a priestly jealousy for that which is perfect, ‘good’ will be our downfall.

There will be demonstrable miracles, an evidence of power with a result, but does that power mean the result is from God? Or is it a work of the flesh, or of the enemy? If men need only to employ the ‘name of Jesus’ to perform many wonders in His name, what do we know about the source of these wonders? It may even be that those men are sincere, that they mean well, and that they think they are doing service to God. One safeguard to keep us from an emptiness and shallowness that makes us responsive to the appearance of power is to be so solidly in relationship with Christ and with God’s people in an earnest and authentic way that the void is filled. That saves us from being easily convinced by lying signs and wonders.

Are we in a fellowship that is a fellowship indeed, rather than a mere aggregate of individuals meeting casually on Sunday for an hour or two? Are the people leaving in the same condition in which they came? I am talking about the real thing to which God has called us, moving from glory to glory and beholding in each other’s faces the glory of God, going again from house to house breaking bread, and at the same time hearing and sharing the kinds of things that in fact make up our life, and experiencing the redemptive work of God working through each other. If our Christian life is a boredom and a drag, and we are looking for excitement and demonstrations of seeming power, we need, really, to look at what the structure and the whole make-up of our Christian life is.

We are urged to exhort one another daily while it is yet today, because next Sunday is too late. How many of us are in a relationship with saints of God daily? How many of us are willing to give up the privacy that we so enjoy, and the time before the television set to make room for that kind of relationship? I am not talking about merely dropping in, putting your feet up on the coffee table and making small talk; that is not a synonym for fellowship. Do we love the other brother enough to say, “My spirit is disturbed. I heard your singing at the service and I heard your testimony, but there is something about it that does not ring true. It lacked the real joy of the Lord. I sense that you are drifting into a kind of performer mentality and spirit. If I am wrong, forgive me, but love compels me to express the sense of alarm and caution in my heart.”

Is there something in our lives, something wrong, that is beginning already to show itself, especially in the place where we think ourselves spiritual? And do we prefer privacy to daily exhortation? Do we prefer coming together for a Sunday wing-ding and feeling good, then going back again into the same pattern of privacy and seclusion? If so, we are guaranteed that the world will have its opportunity to invade, compromise and ultimately destroy us? The church in which the people are not in authentic relationship with one another daily is not church. True church relationship is costly, both in terms of pride and humiliation, as well as in terms of privacy and time. Are we willing to make time for it? Is it of that great a value to us, that the name of God not be blasphemed in the earth, for we are His witness people?

The full sanctification we so desperately need in order to live an authentically Christian life comes not by a wand magically passed over us, but in the interaction of the saints. It comes with the grit, the strains and the tensions that are only to be found in true church, where the saints are going on with determination from glory to glory. Sanctification belongs to those who love the truth, and who recognize that there is only one agency by which that truth can be formalized and demonstrated in the earth, namely, a Church that is called to be the ground and the pillar of truth. But if the Church becomes a flaky phenomenon, if it is soft, indulgent and corrupt, if it loves its flesh and its luxury, if it is willing to cut corners, then what hope shall we have for its effectiveness in the world?

Self-Centered Church

When sitting in meetings, I have often been astonished when the appeals for healing come. Almost everyone comes out of their seats. I have never seen such a sick Church everywhere, and I think that we will continue to be sick, both physically and spiritually, so long as we live egocentric lives. For example, what is the first question you raise when you leave the building Sunday morning? Is it, “What did you think of the speaker? Did you like him? Did you like the worship? Did you like the sermon?” Is your ‘like’ the center of your being? If we have shifted from carnal centrality to spiritual centrality, we are still the center. No wonder we are sick; no wonder we need continually to be healed. Until we make God, His glory, His honor, His name and His eternal purposes the center, we will continue to be sick. We have a false center, and it is in ourselves.

To think in terms of our own benefit and to have our central focus on what we receive is, in itself, the breeding ground of deception. The saving grace from God is to have another center outside of ourselves and other than ourselves, namely, the eternal purposes of God, which redound to His glory. Our sickness is a preoccupation with ourselves, even our spiritual selves, which makes us candidates for deception, and the only corrective is to replace our self-centeredness with that which God intends, a jealousy for His glory. Our mistake is to think that our concern with spiritual things is not as much a form of egocentrism as a concern with carnal things. Let the spiritual benefits come, not because they are our principal focus, but let them come out of a life of obedience and discipline that seeks first and foremost the things that pertain to God. Out of that may come the benefits that accrue, but we are not to be seeking them as the things in themselves. That would still make our focus egocentric, and therefore, by very definition, the posture of deception itself.

To seek God is painful to the flesh. We are lazy and indolent; we cannot find the time; there are too many distractions, even of a valid kind. Another safety for the Church is the seeking of God in the ‘closet’ and in the holy place. The first results of that seeking will be dullness, deadness and nothing; our prayers will not go up beyond the ceiling. It is a testing, and we need to persevere beyond that point until finally we come into a place of grace where God Himself is giving us divine assistance, and we are not looking for an experience, and we are not looking for the benefit of receiving the fire of God, or revelation for preaching. No, we are seeking Him because He is God, and He is the thing in Himself, and not for any benefit that accrues to us. Any seeking of God that seeks benefit is by that definition no longer a seeking of God. Seeking God must be without any concern or consideration for ourselves. We seek Him because He is God, and God deserves our prostration before Him; He alone is God. Only in that place can we begin to sense the awe of God, the fear of God and the holiness of God. These are some of the criteria that will save us from the things that are false.

“The bar is open. Come on in now and drink! Have your fill! There is no limit!!” The vulgarity of that invitation (which I have witnessed) is flagrantly contrary to the holiness of God and so patently a contradiction of God. How can we even respond to invitations of that kind unless we are mindless and so bent on ‘experience’? When we see people ‘slain in the spirit’ or in a stupor of drunkenness, we mindlessly want it too, though, if we had even the most rudimentary sense of God, we would be turning and running in the opposite direction. When the Lord reveals what all of this is about, those of us who have opened ourselves up for this kind of thing will be astonished that we had been so easily deluded. Out of the depth of the repentance and the acknowledgment of our sin there will come a seeking of God and a true knowledge of God that will enable us to endure in the Last Days’ stresses and trials. Who is a greater candidate for deception than those who think that they cannot be deceived?

The enemy’s whole purpose in deception is either to destroy or to divert. Deception that springs from wanting to ‘do’ for God and to be used by God is the most subtle, the most powerful and the most difficult to recognize. Are we in a fellowship predicated on a man’s vision for a work? Is it a situation where he can be corrected, or is he surrounded by affirming people whom he calls ‘intercessors’? And how much are they working toward the success of that ministry for the benefit that might accrue to them? In other words, the whole basis by which those people are related to one another and to him is a soulish vision, rather than the vision of the Lord and His over-arching and eternal purposes. Can you predicate a fellowship and a ministry of intercession on the basis of this one thing? Where is the safeguard?

Why is the fellowship dull and the services predictable? What is lacking in our normative Christianity that makes us susceptible to this kind of alternative? My own answer would be that we have forsaken, or never known at all, the apostolic and prophetic configuration of the faith centering in the Cross. We do not know the sacrifice, the suffering, the embracing of the eternal purposes of God, not the least of which is the mystery of Israel in the Last Days that requires a Church of an ultimate kind. For the lack of that kind of format and orientation enlivening the entire faith and the issues of the faith, we condemn ourselves to finding an alternative to the blandness in our lives, the end thereof being spiritual death."

[url=http://www.benisrael.org/writings/online_books/anatomy_of_deception/taod_contents.html]The Whole Book ~ Anatomy of Deception by Art Katz[/url]

It would seem that we should look at miracles as God does and not man.
"And stephen full of faith and power,did great wonders and miracles amoung the people."
I see no reason to reject what God has given his people to walk in.
I think Art must have a paranoinia concerning miracles.
And btw, where are the Lying signs and miracles attached to the apostles?
I cant find it!

David

Seems to me there is an enormous amount of references in the old testament too, concerning God's mighty signs and wonders..why would we want to believe that in a time of such trouble with the need for real power, that God would withdraw all that He can and will do for and through His people miraculously? I am alarmed at the 'guards at the gate ' of this rich freedom. Simply because Satan will use counterfeits to decieve...doesn't make sense to me... and isn't at all what Jesus has to say about it either...(greater things He said) however looking for them in everything,waiting around for them and chasingafter them is one thing..I for one know that when my eyes are fastened securely to my Father's hand to watch Him closely to know what He wants me to do,signs and wonders show up all the time in big ways and small,but they are not there to make me look good..no way! they appear/happen for His glory, and purposed will made manifest...definately not some side show circus event to promote some ministry...I was thinking today that not too many miracles were recorded having been performed by Jesus,within the church/temple buildings...He taught there mostly and it was outside as He went out into the highways and the byways that He did the best stuff...these were drawn to Him from their daily activities. May I be allowed to proclaim that almost all the miracles/healings that I've seen/performed have been a natural outflow of a HolySpirit-filled life tending to the needs of the least of these,my brethren,potential brethren or actual...bringing the good news to those who were perishing and in rescueing the folks from His flock who were nearly destroyed by false brethren...I don't think "church on sunday as usual" folks realize all that God is doing through Jesus'surrendered and obediant friends,He says we are His friends...for one thing ,they don't go run to the nearest fellowship to bring it to everyone's attention.. but rather go on with the work and the next miracle.In fact you lose track there become so many... Not to say they do not ever speak of these things..no just when God wants them to...because even speaking of the mighty works of God releases power!Besides in much of todays church do you realize how envious people can be...how meanspirited? sometimes I think the believers inside the buildings are in abigger mess than those who no longer go there,but love Him deeply. How fun it would be for me to find a group of believers where I am living now..but I 've not been here very long yet..I will keep believing while I go where God sends me and Pray.

I believe that folks get too comfortable with the safety/familiarity of how they've set up the order of their religious lives...perhaps never really encountering the Word of God in their study of Jesus' words first..this flesh they haven't begun to digest before they are taken the direction which seems right because of what they are taught when they come together to worship and study the Bible..This bread of life that is fresh- Jesus - challenges man to do what the 'church' today deems quaint but impossible in today's earthly system...too radical.What most have never understood is that the authority structure isn't plumb and so there is very little authority,thus power. With the fields so white with harvest...Perhaps we should all pray for Him to send out His workers to gather it in. And so we say what would you have me do Father...then just do it.

He's still doing the same things He was then..because He doesn't change...now He likes to do these through us...wow! What a honor..huh?

I concur wholeheartedly! And I love what Jeff had to say about the counterfeit and the real bill...may we become so immersed in the Truth that is Jesus in all His fullness that we would glorify God with our faith in all that He can and will do for His beloved who are trusting in Him and Him alone to get through such a dark and perilous time...mayhem...exactly! And far worse than it's ever been or ever will be again, that is after His appearing for all to see! Blessed are those who have not seen and yet believe!

I think if a person keeps it simple they can avoid a lot of complex extra biblical rabbit trails.
Jesus gave good advice concerning the devil
God good
devil bad.

Earnestly desire the gifts.
To connect the devil to miracles done at the hand of modern day christians is appalling.
As if they were not bretheren but instruments of the devil?
The word over and over attributes these to God,Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
There is lack of miracles, not a runaway devil outdoing the modern apostles.
If I took Art Katz teaching to heart I surely would be wary of power, wondering if maybe the devil was manipulating something.
No sir I will look to God and expect his word and presence and testimony to always agree that no devil can duplicate the miracles of God.
Show me one place where a devil healed anybody or isnt Gods word true when it says if a boy ask for a fish will his father give him a stone?

No sir to emphasise what the devil can falsely do ........I dont want that to my charge.
I would rather be like Elisha. If I have to chase the mantle of God across 3 continents and wait for the prophet to be taken off the earth.......When the man of God recieves his mantle no wimpy demon can stop him.
and the devil cant stop the power of God.
If Jesus is still alive then he still heals,raises the dead,and casts out demons
"for this purpose the son of God was manifested ....to destroy the works of the devil"

David

It doesnt matter to me if i am the only christian on the planet that believes benny hinn, rodney howard browne, and steve hill are all men of God. People can say or think what they will.
It also doesnt matter to me if they go down in history as men that made a mistake or two, or men that were slightly off.
Because all men are those things.
I object to the blanket indictment of these men. They are maligned , lampooned and put on the same level [actually lower]than the devil himself.
read art katz link ch. 3.......I am one of those deluded souls.
Art portrays the dying and emptying of the believer as "total christianity"
The infilling is portrayed as deluded and wrong.
Dying? yes suffering ?yes ...These are only part of the walk.
I dont believe poonen or katz are circumspect or balanced teachers.
I disagree with them in lots of areas.
But i do believe they are men of God.
A bit "off" but men of God none the less.
I would NOT call them false prophets or devils.

Also ....do a study on "lying" signs and wonders and miracles.
This is mainly referring to the beast and anttichrist.the time of "false" is given power[possibly from heaven]
And this is what is talked about concerning last days deception.
Peter missing it on so many fronts and needing rebuke is NOT last days deception.

David

our Lord gives us a general caution against the way of the many in religion. It is not enough to think as others think, and do as others do. It must not satisfy us to follow the fashion, and swim with the stream of those among whom we live. He tells us that the way that leads to everlasting life is "narrow," and "few" travel in it. He tells us that the way that leads to everlasting destruction is "broad," and full of travelers. "Many are those who enter in by it."

These are fearful truths! They ought to raise great searchings of heart in the minds of all who hear them. "Which way am I going? By what road am I traveling?" In one or other of the two ways here described, every one of us may be found. May God give us an honest, self-inquiring spirit, and show us what we are!

We may well tremble and be afraid, if our religion is that of the multitude. If we can say no more than this, that "we go where others go, and worship where others worship, and hope we shall do as well as others at last," we are literally pronouncing our own condemnation. What is this but being in the "broad way?" What is this but being in the road whose end is "destruction?" Our religion at present is not saving religion.

We have no reason to be discouraged and cast down, if the religion we profess is not popular, and few agree with us. We must remember the words of our Lord Jesus Christ in this passage: "The gate is narrow." Repentance, and faith in Christ, and holiness of life, have never been fashionable. The true flock of Christ has always been small. It must not move us to find that we are reckoned singular, and peculiar, and bigoted, and narrow-minded. This is "the narrow way." Surely it is better to enter into life eternal with a few, than to go to "destruction" with a great company.

In the last place, the Lord Jesus gives us a general warning against false teachers in the church. We are to "beware of false prophets." The connection between this passage and the preceding one is striking. Would we keep clear of this "broad way?" We must beware of false prophets. They will arise. They began in the days of the apostles. Even then the seeds of error were sown. They have appeared continually ever since. We must be prepared for them, and be on our guard.

This is a warning which is much needed. There are thousands who seem ready to believe anything in religion if they hear it from an ordained minister. They forget that clergymen may err as much as laymen. They are not infallible. Their teaching must be weighed in the balance of Holy Scripture. They are to be followed and believed, so long as their doctrine agrees with the Bible, but not a minute longer. We are to try them "by their fruits." Sound doctrine and holy living are the marks of true prophets. Let us remember this. Our minister's mistakes will not excuse our own. "If the blind lead the blind, both will fall into the ditch."

What is the best safe-guard against false teaching? Beyond all doubt the regular study of the word of God, with prayer for the teaching of the Holy Spirit. The Bible was given to be a lamp to our feet and a light to our path. (Psalm. 119:105.) The man who reads it aright will never be allowed greatly to err. It is neglect of the Bible which makes so many a prey to the first false teacher whom they hear. They would have us believe that "they are not learned, and do not pretend to have decided opinions." The plain truth is that they are lazy and idle about reading the Bible, and do not like the trouble of thinking for themselves. Nothing supplies false prophets with followers so much as spiritual sloth under a cloak of humility.

May we all bear in mind our Lord's warning! The world, the devil, and the flesh, are not the only dangers in the way of the Christian. There remains another yet, and that is the "false prophet," the wolf in sheep's clothing. Happy is he who prays over his Bible and knows the difference between truth and error in religion! There is a difference, and we are meant to know it, and use our knowledge.

J.C Ryle

True spiritual discernment is much lost sight of as a real Christian grace; discernment between the evil and the good, the false and the true. 'Beloved, believe not every spirit; but try the spirits whether they are of God; because many false prophets are gone out into the world' (1 John 4:1). This 'discernment,' which belongs to every one who is taught of God, is the very opposite of that which is called in our day by the boastful name of 'liberality.' Spiritual discernment and 'liberal thought' have little in common with each other. Truth is a mighty thing in the eyes of God, whatever it may be in those of men. All error is, more or less, whether directly or indirectly, a misrepresentation of God's character, and a subversion of His revelation.

Satan is the consummate deceiver! It is Satan who gives to the ballroom, and the dance, and the theater, and the voluptuous music their special power to harm; for these are Satan's baits and nets, by means of which he allures the unwary, and leads back the believer to unbelieving ground, disarming our watchfulness, dazzling our vision, reviving our worldliness, and perhaps, for a season, lulling us wholly asleep. we know that the last days are to be like the days of Noah and Lot (Luke 17:26-32), days of reveling, and banqueting, and luxury. Let us be wary, lest, standing as we do on the edge of these days, we be drawn away into the sins of an age led captive by Satan at his will.

H.Bonar

"The prophets who lead my people astray." Micah 3:5

Satan labors by false teachers, who are his emissaries
to deceive, delude, and forever undo the precious souls
of men! They seduce them, and carry them out of the
right way into by-paths and blind thickets of error and
wickedness--where they are lost forever!

As strumpets paint their faces, and deck and perfume
their beds, the better to allure and deceive simple souls;
so false teachers will put a great deal of paint and garnish
upon their most dangerous principles and blasphemies, that
they may the better deceive and delude poor ignorant souls.
They know sugared-poison goes down sweetly. They wrap
up their pernicious, soul-killing pills in gold! "Peace, peace!
they say, when there is no peace." Jeremiah 6:14

"Beware of false prophets, for they come to you in sheep's
clothing--but inwardly they are ravening wolves!" These
lick and suck the blood of souls! These kiss and kill! They
cry, 'Peace, peace!' until souls fall into everlasting flames!

False teachers handle holy things with wit and trifling, rather
than with fear and reverence. They are soul-murderers! They
are like evil surgeons, who skin over the wound--but never
heal it. False teachers are hell's greatest enrichers! Such
smooth teachers are sweet soul-poisoners! This age is full of
such teachers--such monsters!

They eye your goods more than your good; and mind
more the serving of themselves--than the saving of your
souls. So they may have your substance--they care not
though Satan has your souls! That they may the better
pick your purse--they will hold forth such principles as
are very indulgent to the flesh.

These are Satan's great benefactors, and such as divine
justice will hang up in hell as the greatest malefactors!

T.Brooks

The True Gospel And The False - Zac Poonen

Christians are generally speaking, categorized into two groups as follows:

(1) "Roman Catholics" and "Protestants" - depending on birth.
(2) "Episcopal" (conformist) and "Free church" (non-conformist) - depending on church-pattern.
(3) "Born again Christians" and "Nominal Christians" - depending on an "experience";
(4) "Evangelicals" and "Liberals" - depending on doctrine.
(5) "Charismatics" and "Non-charismatics" - depending on "speaking in tongues".
(6) "Full-time Christian workers" and "Secular workers" - depending on profession.

There could be other such categorizations too. But none of these categorizations deal with the root of the problem that our Lord came to solve.

Many know that "Christ died for our sins" (1 Cor.15:3). But many do not know that the Bible says that Christ also died "that we should no longer live for ourselves but for Him" (2 Cor.5:15).

A more Scriptural way of categorizing Christians therefore would be as follows: "Those who live for themselves" and "Those who live for Christ"; or "Those who seek their own" and "Those who seek the things of Christ" or "Those who seek earthly things first" and "Those who seek the kingdom of God first"; or "Those who love money" and "Those who love God". (Jesus said it was impossible to love both -Lk.16:13)

But I have never heard of such a categorization being used. This categorization deals with the Christian's inner life and private walk with God, whereas the methods mentioned earlier deal with the external details of his life. Yet it is in this latter way that heaven categorizes Christians. And if that be the case, then this is the only categorization that matters! In this method, others cannot categorize us. We have to categorize ourselves - for no one but we ourselves know our inner motivations and desires. Even our wives may not be aware what we are living for.

Our Lord did not come primarily to give people a doctrine, or a church-pattern or to make them speak in tongues or even to give them an experience!

He came to "save us from sin". He came to lay the axe to the root of the tree. And the root of sin is : Being centered in ourselves, seeking our own and doing our own will. If we do not permit the Lord to axe and uproot this "root" from our lives, we will be Christians only superficially. Satan may however deceive us into imagining that we belong to a higher class than other Christians, because of our doctrine or our experience or our church-pattern!

Satan doesn't care even if we have the right doctrine, experience and church-pattern, so long as we continue to "live for ourselves" (This, by the way, is just another phrase for "living in sin"!!). Christendom today is filled with Christians who seek their own and live for themselves, who are yet convinced that God views them as superior to other Christians, merely because of doctrinal differences or church-pattern or "experiences". This shows what a great work Satan has succeeded in doing in Christendom.

In John 6:38, our Lord said that He came from heaven to earth:
(1) To deny His human will (that He had acquired, when He came to earth as a Man), and (2) To do the will of His Father, as a Man. Thereby He became our example.

Throughout Jesus' earthly life -- during all His 331/2; years - He denied his own will and did His Father's will. And He told His disciples clearly that those who wanted to be His disciples would have to go the same way. He came to hit at the root of sin in our lives - "doing our own will" - and to deliver us from that.

In the realm of science, for thousands of years, man made the mistake of imagining that the earth was the center of the universe. It looked like that to human eyes - because the sun, moon and stars did indeed appear to be revolving around the earth once every 24 hours. It took the courage of a man like Copernicus to question this popular notion, just about 450 years ago, and to show that it was utterly false and that the earth was not even the center of the solar system, leave alone the universe. The earth, he showed was created to be centered in the sun. As long as man had the wrong center, his scientific calculations and deductions were wrong - because his center was wrong. But once man discovered the right center, then these calculations and deductions turned out right.

It is the same with us when we remain "self-centered" instead of being "God-centered". Our understanding of the Bible and of God's perfect will (our calculations and deductions) will then be wrong. But just as men were convinced for over 5000 years that they were right (as we saw above), we too may imagine that we are right! But actually, we will be 100% wrong.

This is what we see even among many "good Christians" today. They have so many different interpretations of the same Bible - and yet each one is convinced that his interpretation alone is right and everyone else's is wrong. The others, they will say are "deceived". Why is this so? Because they've got their center wrong.

Man was created to be centered in God and not in himself. And when Christians have got their center wrong, their "gospel" will be wrong too. Basically, there are only two gospels being preached today - one man-centered and the other God-centered.

The man-centered gospel promises man that God will give him everything he needs to make his life on earth comfortable and will also give him a seat in heaven at the end of his life. Man is told that Jesus will forgive all his sins, heal all his diseases, bless and prosper him materially, solve all his earthly problems, etc., etc.

Self still remains at the center of such a man's life, and God revolves around him - as his servant - to answer his every prayer and to give him whatever he wants!! All that he has to do is "believe" and "claim every material blessing in Jesus' Name"!!

This is a false gospel, because no mention is made of "repentance". Repentance is what John the Baptist, Jesus, Paul, Peter and all the apostles preached first of all. And repentance, unfortunately, is what is not preached today, even last of all!!

The God-centered gospel, on the other hand, calls upon man to repent. It explains that "repentance" means:

Turning FROM Self as the center of one's life, from doing one's own will, from walking along one's self-chosen way, from loving money, and from loving the world and the things in the world (the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes and the pride of life), etc., and

Turning TO God, loving Him with one's whole heart, making Him the Centre of one's life and doing His will henceforth etc.,

Faith in Christ's death on the cross can forgive a man his sins only when he has repented. Then he can receive the power of the Holy Spirit empower him to deny himself daily so that he can live a God-centered life. This is the gospel that Jesus and the apostles preached.

The false gospel makes the gate wide and the way broad (easy to walk along, because one does not have to deny one's Self or stop living for one's own interests or stop seeking one's own gain). Millions attend meetings where such a false "gospel" is preached. And many enter through this gate and walk along this way, imagining that it leads to life. But it actually leads to destruction. The evangelists of this gospel however gloat in, and report about the large numbers of people who "raised their hands and made decisions for Christ" in their meetings!! But it is all a deception. Although some are indeed genuinely converted in such meetings, because of their sincerity, many such "converts" end up becoming "twofold children of hell" (Matt.23:15) - deceived about their true state.

The true gospel however, makes the gate small and the way narrow - not smaller or narrower than Jesus Himself made it, as some "super-spiritual" cultists do, but just the same size as Jesus made it. Few there be, that find this way to life. There is not much for the evangelists of this gospel to report about, and the statistics are not impressive. But this gospel leads people to the Lord Jesus and to heaven.

"Be careful how you listen. Whoever obeys what he has heard, to him more light and understanding will be given. But whoever does not obey what he has heard, even what light and understanding he thinks he has will be taken away from him." (Paraphrase of Luke 8:18).

He who has ears to hear, let him hear

one would have to wonder if God himself knew what he was talking about when he said "if a son asks for a fish will his father give him a serpent?"
Since the devil is so powerfull to diecieve maybe we should not even pray to God for fear the more powerfull devil will instead answer our prayers

David

almost everything with God is man centered. he even gave his son for man.
Even the gospel[good news] is man centered
Maybe God hasnt read the Katz books

David

A very intresting [url=http://www.cfcindia.net/vbvaudio/Matthew/08_Matthew_Ch7-6_Ch7-29.mp3]bible study about Jesus words in[/url] Matt 7:6-7:29 by Zac Poonen

also ....I dont know of anyone who got saved just to make God happy

no, we all got saved for us. We wanted something for us.......Salvation!
we are man centered.
what do you think pride is?
We all have it and we are all sefish.
Do you know i can glory in my great accomplishments of sanctification and dying?

Mayby those that seem the holiest seem that way because they convinced us?

pride,pride,pride!

David

yes all those people wrote books. Are they about God? or their preoccupation even obsession with man and the devil.
They tell you the opposite and yet look at the subject matter ....MAN!
repentance message is man centered. Ask any english teacher.
God is not the one repenting.
Guess what Man is .....So repentance message is a man centered message.

David

westminister: "the chief and of man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever"

David: "the chief and of God is to make man happy"

;-)

I dont know of anyone who got saved just to make God happy

I know Jesus did everything for his father, so that is available to us.

I will say this...you nor I could stand in Gods presence very long. It takes getting used to. It is Gods presence that convicts.
Not my abilitty to preach or have such right on doctrine.
His presence absolutely disarms and bringss the best of us to our knees.
When God shows up the worrk begins in man. Man is the center of all God does.

Better to have God show up then all the "doctrinally correct 'ministers' on the planet"

David

Dear David.

Have you ever considered prayerfully that you may be following a false teacher(s) ? you know there is a chance you may be wrong ? your experiences can be be very wonderful, but that is no guaranties they are from God. I know we have discussed it before brother about the fake thing of "holy" laughter . And about some of the people promoting such. Like LittleGift i dont need Art Katz or Zac Poonen to tell me some "prophet" is false, it was my desire not to mention names in this thread, but some of the names you mentioned I just found for example Art or brother Zac they put in words what my spirit told me first time i heard Mr Hinn, or the first time i saw people bark like dogs claiming they are filled with the spirit and laughing like they have taken an overdose Lsd. My spirit went of as an alarmclock. Now i read Art Katz and find he puts in word what my spirit felt.

Have you ever considered brother you may be deceived? these men might have fooled you? You are only in deception when you think you have the genuine but in reality, you dont....

I will pray for you brother, God knows all things and can reveal everything to a humble heart seeking him.

God bless you

Brother Christian

hmmhmm wrote:
you know there is a chance you may be wrong ? your experiences can be be very wonderful, but that is no guaranties they are from God.

Minutes before to see this post, I was reading this:

A skilful liar lies not only in word but in gesture and deed ; he can as easily pass a bad coin as tell an untruth. The Devil is a skilful liar, and we cannot expect him to stop at words in his lying. [b]He will resort to lying signs and feelings and experiences in his attempts to shake us from our faith in God's Word.[/b]

You probably know the illustration of Fact, Faith and Experience walking along the top of a wall. Fact walked steadily on, turning neither to right nor left and never looking behind. Faith followed, and all went well so long as he kept his eyes focused upon Fact; but as soon as he became concerned about Experience and turned to see how he was getting on, he lost his balance and tumbled off the wall, and poor old Experience fell down after him.

All temptation is primarily to look within; to take our eyes off the Lord and to take account of appearances. Faith is always meeting a mountain, a mountain of evidence that seems to contradict God's Word, a mountain of apparent contradiction in the realm of tangible fact- failures in deed, as well as in the realm of feeling and suggestion-and either faith or the mountain has to go. They cannot both stand. But the trouble is that many a time the mountain stays and faith goes. That must not be. [b]If we resort to our senses to discover the truth, we shall find Satan's lies are often enough true to our experience ;[/b] [u]but if we refuse to accept as binding anything that contradicts God's Word[/u] and maintain an attitude of faith in Him alone, we shall find instead that Satan's lies begin to dissolve and that our experience is coming progressively to tally with that Word.

[i]-Taken from The Normal Christian Life by Watchman Nee[/i]

If I took Art Katz teaching to heart I surely would be wary of power, wondering if maybe the devil was manipulating something.
No sir I will look to God and expect his word and presence and testimony to always agree that no devil can duplicate the miracles of God.

[i]And Moses and Aaron went in unto Pharaoh, and they did so as the LORD had commanded: and Aaron cast down his rod before Pharaoh, and before his servants, and it became a serpent.[/i]

[i]Then Pharaoh also called the wise men and the sorcerers: now the magicians of Egypt, they also did in like manner with their enchantments.[/i]

[i]For they cast down every man his rod, and they became serpents: but Aaron's rod swallowed up their rods.[/i] Exo 7:10-12

[i]For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.[/i] Mar 13:22

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[i]Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.[/i] 1Jn 4:1

creschk, I am making a point and not pitting one leader against another. I am FULLY aware of what is true and what is false.
By everyones own admission there is FAULT in ALL leaders.
Now suddenly one camp enjoys the exclusive rights as to who gets the false prophet crown.
I am NOT anti Art katz.
I am not necesssarily pro wof,hinn, or r. h. browne.

I have a bible and a teacher.
I refuse to jump on the false prophet band wagon.
Why would anyone want to demonize a ministry.
Please look closely at YOUR formula for deternining who is demonic and who is of God.
All reference is supposedly put through a FOOLPROOF DETECTOR and out pops a list of demonic false leaders.
Please look at the anti christ and the beast.
This is the last days deception the bible refers to. To make it something else is to indict even the true prophet.
Peter [a prophet] was so messed up paul had to go go rebuke him to his face.
peters sin made ananias aand saphira look like saints.
My objection continues in that this demon labeling [error by emphesis] promotes false conception to the bretheren as to the power and manipulation of the devil.

Thats why i say the thingss i say. It is possible to be so enamored with a leaader that they get a pass on error.
So you see my objections [totally reasonable] envoke great wrath from the "berreans"
Can you just humor me with a speck of "audience" that the "microscope" of the "berreans" should in turn work equally as well in both camps.
The false signs and wonders label connected to the modern day saints , in my opinion , is damageing to "seeking" saints that are babes looking for more of God.
Unchecked I feel this continued lampooning of ministries will ultimately damage even the participants.
In my short time here I have brought forth valid points that i feel have been met with anger and resentment.
Notice pauls exposing of false prophet imediately qualified by his EXAMPLE OF THE TRUE PROPHET .....himself!
This great example should be herolded as a viable litmus test. I never see this point taken. But paul doesnt stop there he goes on to say that Miracles signs and wonders AUTHENTICATED his ministry.
I keep bringing up the father and stone analogy that Jesus taught.
You CANNOT get a demon from the hand of God!!!
It is IMPOSSIBLE!!
John did not come back from patmos wondering if the devil blessed him with a vision from hell.
He knew his redeemer as does mr hinn,steve hill and rodney.
Theese are true men of God . I have spent many,many, possibly hundreds of hours in these camps and I KNOW my redeemer.
My God does not deliver a demon into my hand .
He promised his people this . and i belong to him.
When in florida i passed through horrendous demonic attacks that just almost got me.
But Jesus came along side and showed me what to do.
Now i have a "understanding " with the devil.

I know we win everytime. I want this for the saints.
I lived my whole christian walk with a "win sometimes" walk.
Now I win because HE wins . HE NEVER looses. So now I never loose. The devil goes down everytime.

I can assure you these ministries are wrongly demonized.
Are they off ?....you bet!
But ALL of us walk a little sideways. But we are not demonic.

David

both the mantle staying behind and the transferring of the annointing are scripural.
you shouldnt criticize those that are seeking.
some have one ministry some annother. just because some have a different ministry doesnt qualify them for the demon label.

david

YES YES YES! i love that little story with pharoh and the serpents.
Did you notice that arrons rod swallowed up the demons!!
Even if a man of God might have a meeting where signs wonder and miracles are present the devil will try to duplicate what God does.
I believe you will never see the devil heal one person.
Notice if the devil even tries to copy the annointing and power of God the true swallows up the false.
I forgot about this. But now that you mention it . this happened a lot at the Brownsville revival. The devils distraction was always swallowed up by the power of God.
If you ever have the privlidge to be in a true revival you will see thousands saved and you will take with you many memories of watching the devil loose.
You will also notice two strange phenomenon. 1] the religious peeople will accuse you of being in a false demon "revival"
2]You will stand in awe of the great annointing and power of God and you will see the religious people get mad and stomp out.

David

The 22nd chapter of 1 Kings gives us insight concerning how things can work in the kingdom of heaven. Micaiah is given a rare view of a rather 'unorthodox' meeting of all the host of heaven standing before the throne of God. What spirit do you suppose told God that he would be a lying spirit in the mouth of the kings prophets? These prophets were all gathered (about 400 men)to inquire of the Lord concerning whether or not to go to war with Syria with whom Israel had been at peace with for 3 years. Even the opposing kings of Judah and Israel were coming together in regards to this proposition.

I especially like what Micaiah says to Zedekiah,who struck him on the cheek demanding, "which way did the spirit go from me to speak to you?"

"Indeed you shall see when you go into an inner chamber to hide!"

This speaks to me of those who have been in the limelight,recieving recognition,of an elite crew who may have had the word of the Lord at one time but for whatever reason couldn't be trusted to give speak the truth,needing to step down and go 'hide themselves in their inner 'closet'.Perhaps the exposing of their falsness makes them want to go and hide.

Micaiah having heard the strategy beforehand tries to play along but when the truth is demanded he spills the beans...not that it made any difference. The king had already determined in his heart what he wanted to do and did it.God wanted him to fail and got Ahab in the bargain. So as far as what God will or will not allow or even devise when He is against someone's agenda...think again. Our thoughts are not His thoughts..unless He reveals them to us. God desires that we know the true from the false...will we trust Him to do so?

DANGEROUS DAINTIES

Arthur W. Pink (1886-1952)

"When you sit to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before you" (Proverbs 23:1). We suppose that this verse has little or no voice for many of our readers, inasmuch as there is scarcely any likelihood they will ever be invited to dine with the President of the United States or the King of Great Britain. Alas that such a thought should find place in any Christian's mind. Alas that the tendency to carnalize God's Word should now be so general. Alas that our spiritual interpreters of the Living Oracles have well-near vanished from the earth. Yet even though there be no anointed teacher available to open up the Scriptures, ought it not to be self-evident that the Holy Spirit would never have placed such a verse as this in the Word if it had no application unto the rank and file of God's people? And ought not that very consideration cause us to prayerfully seek for its hidden significance?

"When you sit to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before you." There are other "rulers" mentioned in Scripture beside civil ones. Do we not read of "rulers of the congregation" (Exo. 16:22), the "ruler of the synagogue" (Luke 8:41), as well as the "rulers of the darkness of this world" (Eph. 6:12)? Now, not all of the religious "rulers" in Christendom today have been appointed by God. No indeed, far from it. Personally the writer very much doubts if two out of each thousand of the preachers, ministers, and missionaries, the world over, have been Divinely called! Many of them are self-appointed, some of them sent out by men, most of them raised up by Satan. The attentive reader of the Old and New Testaments will find that the false prophets have, in every age, greatly outnumbered the true. It is for this reason that God commands us to "believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world" (1 John 4:1). Thus the admonition given in Proverbs 23:1 has always been a timely one for God's people to pay strict attention unto, and perhaps it was never more needful to give heed unto it than in the degenerate and apostate time in which our lot is cast.

The preaching we listen to, and in measure absorb, has precisely the same effect upon our souls, as does the food we eat have upon our bodies: if wholesome, it is nutritious; if injurious, it works harm. "When you sit to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before you." The tragic thing is that many of God's own children today are so unspiritual, and therefore so spiritually ignorant, that they know not how TO "consider diligently" what is set "before them." They know not what tests to apply, nor how to examine what they hear. So long as the preacher is "orthodox" and approved by those whom they consider "sound in the Faith," they think his message is alright. So long as the preacher holds to the "fundamentals" of the Faith, they suppose that he is a true servant of God. So long as the preacher sticks close to the letter of Scripture, they imagine their souls are being fed with the sincere milk of the Word. Alas for the credulity of such unwary souls.

Is the reader ready to ask, "But what other tests are we to apply?" Let us help you to answer your own question by asking another. What criterion do you apply to the material food you eat? Are you satisfied if it has been prepared and cooked according to the best culinary books? Of course not. The chief thing is, what effect does your food produce? Does it agree with or upset your digestive system? Does it promote or injure your health? We are agreed, are we not? Very good, now apply the same rule or test unto the spiritual— or, we should say, more correctly, the "religious"—food of which you are partaking; what effect is it having upon your character and conduct, what is it producing in your heart and life? But we must not stop there with a mere generalization. If souls are to be helped today, the servant of God must be precise, and enter into details. Ponder carefully these questions, dear reader.

Does the preaching you listen to come home to your heart in the power of the Holy Spirit? If not, what is the use of hearing it? Does the preaching you hear pierce you, search your conscience, condemn you, and make you cry, "O wretched man that I am"? Or does it add to your store of intellectual knowledge, minister to your delight, and make you feel self-satisfied? Do not treat these questions lightly, we beg you, or you are very likely to prove your own worst enemy. Face them fairly and squarely, as in the presence of God. "Consider diligently" what is set before you from the pulpit, for it must do one of two things: help or harm you. It either promotes humility, or feeds pride. It either stimulates to work out your own salvation "with fear and trembling," or it fosters carnal security and self-confidence. It either drives you to your knees, or it more and more lulls your spiritual sensibilities. It either makes you more conscientious and careful about all the details of your daily life, or more careless and callous. It either causes you to cry unto God day and night for Him to work in your heart a deeper and more constant hatred of evil, or (probably unconsciously) leads you to think more lightly of sin—excusing "little" failures, and consoling yourself with the thought that none of us reach perfection in this life; whereas God says, "Be holy in all manner of behavior" (1 Peter 1:15).

"And put a knife to your throat, if you be a man given to appetite" (Proverbs 23:2). This is strong language, is it not? Yes, and the subject calls for it. So very few realize the fearful consequences which follow from a disregard of that command of Christ's, "Take heed what you hear" (Mark 4:24). False doctrine has the same effect upon the soul as poison does upon the body. But Satan appeals to the pride of so many, and succeeds in making them believe they are immune, that they are so "well established in the Truth" that listening to error cannot injure them. Therefore does the Holy Spirit say, "Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners" (1 Cor. 15:33): not they may, but DO! Yes, even though you are quite unaware of it. "And put a knife to your throat, if you be a man given to appetite." This is plainly a word of warning for those who are consumed with curiosity to hear every new "evangelist" or "Bible-teacher" who comes to town; those who have an insatiable appetite to sample every religious "feast" that is spread in their community. That is what is meant by "a man given to appetite": one who craves to hear the latest pulpit or platform sensationalist.

To all such God says, Take yourself in hand, and use no half measures to check this dangerous tendency. It is at your imminent peril you disregard this Divine admonition. If you disobey, Satan will either slay you, or else drug and put you soundly to sleep. "Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful food" (Proverbs 23:3). Yes, he has "dainties" to offer you: that is why so many are attracted to his table. These "dainties" are skillfully varied to meet different tastes. For "prophetic students" they are spicy items from the newspapers, served under the name of "signs of the times." But these are "deceitful food," for they leave the soul starved and barren: there is no spiritual nutriment in them! For the energetic young people, there is a pleasing presentation of "Christian service," calling upon them to engage in "work for the Lord": these too are "deceitful food," for they neither edify (build up) nor lead to a closer walking with Christ; instead, they take the eye off Christ, unto the "perishing multitudes": as though God were unable to save His own elect without our assistance! "Keep your heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life" (Proverbs 4:23) is God's word unto you.

For others there is a regular exposition of "our doctrines" which are indeed "dainties" unto those of a theological turn of mind. "Yes, but 'our doctrines' are Scripture doctrines, and surely they cannot be 'deceitful food'!" Ah dear friend, Satan frequently transforms himself into "an angel of light"; he knows full well that no harm will be done unto his cause while doctrinal dissertations are addressed to the intellect, and the conscience is not searched. Unless there be a practical application made of each Scripture doctrine, the heart is not touched nor the soul humbled; instead, pride is fed and the head is merely stuffed with a theoretical knowledge of the Truth. Mark this well: doctrine divorced from experimental and practical preaching is highly injurious!

What the writer and reader most need is not "dainties," but "bitter herbs" (Exo. 12:8) to purge us of pride, independency, self-love! We need to be fed "with the bread of tears" (Psalm 80:5) and "the water of affliction" (Isaiah 30:20). Only that ministry truly helps which causes us to mourn before God, which brings us into the dust, which makes us loathe ourselves. Perhaps some will reply, "I want a ministry where Christ is exalted." Good; but do you relish a ministry which gives you to see how un-Christlike you are in your ways, how little you are following the example which He has left us? A faithful and well-balanced ministry of "Christ" includes His teaching upon Discipleship, His claims and demands upon us, His precepts and warnings. Beware of flesh-pleasing "dainties," dear reader.

We pass over the intervening ones and come to verse 8 of Proverbs 23, "The morsel which you have eaten shall you vomit up, and lose your sweet words." Yes, if you are really a child of God, this is what the Spirit will, sooner or later, work in you. He will yet make your heart nauseated with those flesh-pleasing "dainties" which you now so much relish; He will yet cause you to turn with disgust from that which the empty professors feed upon with such avidity. We speak from painful experience. Sheep cannot thrive on that which goats eat! If your preacher is admired and eulogized by white-washed worldlings, you may be certain that his ministry cannot help you. If large crowds enthusiastically hear him, it is a sure sign that he is not ministering the Word in the power of the Spirit!

In closing, let us point out that all we have said above about "considering diligently" what preaching you attend, applies with equal force to listening on to the radio! "Take heed what you hear": if it does not make your conscience more tender, it will make it more callous. The same applies to your reading. The great majority of the "orthodox" and "sound" magazines being printed today, can only harm you, for they contain nothing to make you weep before God, nothing to increase the "fear of the Lord" in your soul, nothing that will lead to an increasing mortifying of your members which are upon the earth. If you have proven this to be the case, then from now on shun them as you would a plague. "Cease from man!" (Isaiah 2:22) and feed upon the Word.

Wait a minute.........You guys wouldnt be of baptist origin would you? It seems as if you think anyone operating in the gifts is false. OK,lets start from here .....Does God still do miracles or did all miracles cease? I think this could be the root of the false prophet labeling.
I started thinking last night,Its funny how only those operating in the gifts get such a low score with the bretheren here.

David

hmmhmm, do you see what you are doing? You find material you think supports your suppusitions.But your material indicts not only the teachers but the stooges that sit under them. As if i am so deluded I dont know what false is.

"I am the false and represent all that is detramental to the bretheren."
You got any ideea how it feels to see such widespread deception and yet practically an entire movement call you and what you know to be Gods people demons and worse?

David

Gifts are still for today.

I will make a bold statement here and say that anyone who does not believe that the gifts are for yesterday, today and tomorrow doesn't know the word of the Lord. To my understanding, there is not one place in the bible that says that the gifts are not for today and tomorrow. There are references about tongues ceasing, but sssooooooo many take that out of context.

The gifts are mightly in use today. Honestly though, the only folks I know that disagree with the use of giftings as not for today, or feel that the gifts are now somehow satanic, are the same folks that have not been part of a giftings exxperience.

Yes, there are false teachers out there that mimic the Lords giftings. All you have to do is turn on your TV and watch some of these ungodly preachers lie and extort. They will have to answer for that.

Regardless... No one should chase after the giftings of God, but should pursue the Lord in all things. If you pursue the Lord and ask for the gifs of the Spirit, He will work in you. If you pursue the giftings for fleshly gains, He may not work in you. The Lord is good no matter the giftings. Focus on the Lord and the rest will come.

All thats being proven here is that anyboby can hold selective scripture against anyone and come up with the desired effect.

David

Can you show me where in this thread I have stated i do not believe in the gifts? I believe in the gifts, but i also believe gifts apart from the fruit of the spirit is of satan. I believe there is genuine gifts from God, also believe there are false gifts by satan.

I post articles i feel are according to what I consider be in line with what the sum of all scripture teach,

and for your information i am currently attending and sharing fellowship at a pentecostal church.

psalm1 wrote:
hmmhmm, do you see what you are doing? You find material you think supports your suppusitions.But your material indicts not only the teachers but the stooges that sit under them. As if i am so deluded I dont know what false is.David

Not that I want to get involved in this over my head thread but David your right! "anyone" here that copies and paste anything like a lot of the stuff in this thread it is just another's "opinion" and really holds no more water than our own opinions. I really wished we "all" could post more stuff from our own words and knowledge and find the scriptures to back up our opinions on our own it would hold a lot more water and also we could probably understand the post better.

I know there is a lot of good info. out there but really if you posting "anything" here that is not "scriptural" it's only opinions and it's sad when we start using "others" opinions to talk for us. Would it not be better to post an original opinion from us to debate our points and not let someone else's opinions talk for us? To me that is very unfair for the original writer because he or she is not here to defend what they wrote or meant.

Personally "anything" posted here that is not our original opinions or findings should not be used to debate with, it's very easy to argue with someone else's opinions, but our "real" knowledge
is best expressed through our original opinions.
Mr. Bill

hmmhmm wrote:

Can you show me where in this thread I have stated i do not believe in the gifts?

Hmmhmm

I was making this statement in general and not pointing it at you. I do not know what your beliefs are on the matter and was not trying to accuse you of such one way or another. I appologize if that is how my posting came off. It was not intended to be such.

:-)

wow I ask a question and envoke such responses.
I am only asking and not putting anyone on the spot . I only am making an observation from reading threads that focus on scrutinizing one segment of the body.[or demonising]
I went back and read my question and from it could not come up with any thing derrogatory.
Remember we are talking about false miracles[which i dont think anyone has seen] of Gods people. Since this is not seasoned with true miracles, it would seem appropriate for someone to present that side

would it not?

David

psalm1 wrote:

Remember we are talking about false miracles[which i dont think anyone has seen] of Gods people. Since this is not seasoned with true miracles, it would seem appropriate for someone to present that side

I have seen people claiming they healed a person, one of the persons you named, and when some TV reporters followed up the story it turns out the boy was never healed, and when they do some more research it is just case after case of claimed healings that never took place. And this man is also caught on camera lying. I can PM you the link to this documentary, it is on youtube. It is also interesting it is a secular channel that made this documentary. Not the "baptists" ;-)

And i really dont have to see a false miracle to believe in them, because the bible speaks about them.

you may disagree but i dont think you seen a demon or an angel, yet you believe, i presume in the reality of such.

I have never seen a dead man raised, but i belive such things may happened just as scripture says, scripture also says false miracles happened, and Warns again, and again of being deceived....

so, we can ignore it and say it is all from God , or we can believe what it says, and continue to talk about how to discern who and what is false. And how we best come to that conclusion.

I think you Americans have a saying that goes

"better safe then sorry"

God bless you mightily!

Littlegift,Yes i do see your point and I dont want anyone in false anything including myself.
But I will say this,Peter missed it but wasnt demonic and you and i miss it and I know you are not demonic.
I learned a couple of things in walking with God and I learned from sermon index.
the last few years in my walk have been intense and had i have known what was damaging at first I could have saved a lot of grief.
But what I do know i will never give up.
It came from heaven and nothing can replace it.
My experience is almost exactly opposite of youguy's.
I invert almost everything said.
most of what i see in the gifts is exactly backwards from you.
I only went to one benny hinn crusade and it blew me away.
You guys seem to think I hang on every word of benny hinn.
I have checked him against the word and found him wrong. But mostly right.
I love doctrine and I absolutely love talking to you guys. It is the highlight of my day!
I disagree with hmmhmm on so many things, but he seems so big hearted.....how can you not love the guy?
yes we do disagree but i feel we all are at lest trying to love one another.
And I can assure you I will endever to stay pure doctrinally.
I learned that things that seem virtuous sometimes will barely stand the light of heaven.
And clice's sound good but mostly are empty.
my walk is so different from yall and it burns inside me to see the dead raised and lepers cleansed and blind eyes opened.
I did see blind eyes opened once. Its like cathing a big fish,it will make you go back.
Are we so distracted in celebrating the false we miss opportunities to raise the dead.
I have tried raising the dead twice, I was right there at the corpse, but i lost my nerve and never prayed.
There is something about those dead people that gets to me.
I know one day i will.

Now do you see??
Who will teach me??? who will show me?? who is doing this?? I have no one to show me!! It is imparative to me that the WORD lives!! I am an infant in miracles.
The ministry of elisha is almost non existant.
Does our God live????
The apostles FLOWED in miracles. What are we???
religeous people with no power? May it never be !!!

David

David and I agree on that we disagree with each other :-)

we look at it differently, we do share this view and burden

it burns inside me to see the dead raised and lepers cleansed and blind eyes opened.

and when i read that brother the words of Art Katz came to me

and even as i know what you think brother, maybe this you can agree that there may be some truth in it. Even if you dont, still my own personal belief is there is something of great importance in this excerpt

[i]The account of Ananias and Sapphira in the Book of Acts is a remarkable episode of an incident that occurred in another age, in an hour when the Spirit of God prevailed in such magnitude and purity that the very same act which might well be applauded today, resulted, in that day, in sudden judgment and death. By applauded, I mean that we do not ask questions about those who give great contributions to the Church, but instead, we give such a person a place of honor and acknowledgement, a deacon at least, if not an elder. But the Church, which identified the lie and was not impressed with the sum, is not the Church of today.

It was the Church in its glory then, because it was alert to the issue of truth and deception, because it knew that before the Spirit of God manifests as the Spirit of power, He is first and foremost the Spirit of truth. When truth is disallowed, when truth is compromised, can we think that the dove is going to be around to perform the expressions of power that serve our needs and gratify our souls, if we have forsaken Him and His first designation and identity as the Spirit of truth? There needs to be a jealous regard for the truth that Peter exercised, enabling him to discern the fraud of a man and his wife giving a sum of money, however impressive, presenting it as the whole, though it was only in part. [/i]

But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back some of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God.”

And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came upon all who heard of it (Acts 5:3-5).

Almost in the next breath we read,
And at the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were taking place among the people; and they were all with one accord in Solomon’s portico (Acts 5:12).

[i]In other words, the respect for the Spirit of God as [b]the Spirit of truth makes way for the Spirit of God as the Spirit of power[/b]. The contemporary Church has [b]reversed[/b] it; we have celebrated the power, the signs, the wonders, and relegated the truth to a distant consideration, if indeed, any consideration at all. And which of us has not played the game of giving the part and making that to appear to be the whole? [/i]

maybe the POWER we long to see will come brother, when we do away with the false? when truth, the real truth.... comes....the miracles and wonders follow?

May Gods peace overflow in your hearts.

Christian

I found this, and it was interesting. It contains much scriptures to meditate on. I dont agree on everything this author says otherwise or doctrines he hold but i find this excerpt to be very good.

There is a false faith in which multitudes are confidently resting.

There is a false faith by which multitudes
are deceived and will perish for ever in hell.

A false faith may be greatly enlightened and
knowledgeable in gospel truth (Heb. 6:4).
A false faith excites the affections (Stony Ground Hearers).
A false faith reforms the outward life (The Pharisees).
A false faith may speak very well of Christ (The Jews).
A false faith confesses sin (Saul).
A false faith may humble itself in sackcloth and ashes (Ahab).
A false faith may repent (Esau - Judas).
A false faith may diligently perform religious works
(The Pharisees).
A false faith may be very charitable and generous (Ananias).
A false faith may tremble at the Word of God (Felix).
A false faith may experience much in religion (Heb. 6:1-4).
A false faith may enjoy great religious privileges (Lot's wife).
A false faith may preach, perform miracles,
and cast out demons (Matt. 7:23).
A false faith may attain high office in the church (Diotrephes).
A false faith may walk with great preachers
(Demas was Paul's companion).
A false faith may be peaceful and carnally secure
(The Five Foolish Virgins).
A false faith may even persevere and hold out until the
day of judgment (Matt. 7:22-23).

If you have the faith of God's elect, it will bear examination.

If you do not, if you are resting in a false faith, you need to
be awakened so that you may flee to Christ in true faith.

D.Fortner

Another interesting thought about the real and the unreal.

I have heard it said that the way bank tellers are trained to detect counterfeit notes is to handle only the genuine. They get the 'feel' of a genuine note. Maybe someone in the industry could clarify if this is true.

Any miracle, any driving out by the finger of God, any move of the Holy Spirit which does not point people to Jesus Christ, deserves are close scrutiny and more often than not our rejection.

It is really all about him, the raising of the dead, the opening of blind eyes, etc it is about him and his compassion and grace on mankind, not on the super annoiteds gift. These men/woman should rend their garments like Paul and Barnabas and proclaim, why do you do these things, we are men of like passions.

It creates a gospel that draws men because of their own lack and desire to be like God and not on the work of Gods grace. Like Peter said to Simon, your money perish with you if you think that the gift of God could be purchased with money. How many people invest huge amounts of money on tapes, seminars and books to 'learn' how to 'flow in the anointing'. Maybe if they took Peters words seriously and they understand the real reason why they are so powerless then God could do something with them.

Act 8:21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God. Act 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee. Act 8:23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

Like Ravenhill also said : Oh how we want people to recognise the gifts that God has given you, but you stink with pride.

This is a sword that is directed at my own heart. I don't know of many people that have operated at this level, let alone have stayed true to the Lord. But like the rest here there is a place in God in where I know and believe and trust in the grace of God to do more than I can ask or imagine.

In other words, the respect for the Spirit of God as the Spirit of truth makes way for the Spirit of God as the Spirit of power. The contemporary Church has reversed it; we have celebrated the power, the signs, the wonders, and relegated the truth to a distant consideration, if indeed, any consideration at all. And which of us has not played the game of giving the part and making that to appear to be the whole?

thank you so much for the link to the art katz website. the e-book was such an amazing book. it is always so refreshing to see someone else put words to how you feel about a particular issue.

anyways, thank you so much for that. benisrael.org is now in my favorites. thanks.

phil

SATAN'S CONVENTION

(The following article was edited with additions and
subtractions. The original author is unknown.)

It is said that Satan called a worldwide convention; and in his
opening address to all his evil angels, he said, "We can't keep
the real Christians from going to church services. We can't
keep them from reading their bibles and knowing the truth.
We can't even keep them from holding godly values. But we
can keep them from forming an intimate, abiding fellowship with
Christ. This is most critical for our cause, for if they have
intimate, abiding fellowship with Christ, then we can have no
power over them, and no chance of gaining strongholds in their
lives. Therefore, my evil comrades, this is what I want you to
do-- DISTRACT THEM!"

"But how shall we do this?" shouted one of his demons.

"Keep them busy in non-essentials of life! Invent unnumbered
schemes to occupy their minds. Tempt them to spend, spend,
spend and to borrow, borrow, borrow! Convince them to
work 6 and 7 days a week with both husbands and wives
working 10-12 hours per day, so they can afford their
lifestyles. Keep them from spending time with their children.
Let televisions, VCR's, CD's, video games, and movies baby-
sit their children. By these tactics alone, we will fragment
their families."

"Over stimulate their minds with high energy sounds and
entertainment so that they cannot hear the still small voice of
our dread enemy, the Holy Spirit. Entice them to listen to
music and to watch programs, even many of the religious ones,
which will jam their minds with our agenda and our
philosophies. Flood their schedules with every kind of sports
activity you can imagine. They are especially gullible to these
kinds of tactics, since there is 'nothing wrong with them'!
Fill them with dread by pounding their minds with news and
weather reports 24 hours a day. Flood their mail and email
boxes with "stuff"; and have them pass trivia to and fro to one
another. Fill their minds with incredible amounts of sports
trivia. You see, my dark friends, we shall JAM THEIR
MINDS AND KEEP THEM FROM COMMUNION
WITH CHRIST!"

"In their recreation, entice them to be excessive. Fill church
calendars with sports and recreation. Exhaust them, so that
they will be too tired for serious bible study and prayer.
Exhaust them so that they will have no time for Christian
hospitality. Exhaust them so that they will have no heart for
ministry to the lost. O evil one, our plan will cause them to
forget that the lost are lost! Keep them going to amusement
parks, sporting events, concerts and movies; keep them
consumed with the cares of this life! And when they do meet,
instead of spiritual fellowship, have them involved in gossip
and small talk and card games."

"And don't forget to crowd their lives with causes and events
that are 'good and acceptable'. Again, our strategy is to so
exhaust them that they have no time to feed their souls, or to
cultivate love for our dread enemy, Christ. Thus, they will
have no spiritual power over temptations, over habits, over
wrong attitudes and so much more. They will have less and less
discernment as to what is true and what is false, as to what
is good, and what is evil. They will not even suspect us!"

Well, as you can tell, it was quite a convention!
And the demons went eagerly to their assignments.

Can we judge the success of their convention? Yes!
Just give an honest answer to this one question--
Do you know any busy, busy, busy, exhausted Christians
who are running to and fro, who have knowledge about
many things, but have precious little time to sit at
Jesus' feet, and who are fast loosing their grip on peace
and holiness and love and purity and forgiveness, and
who have less and less time and heart for eternal things,
or for the souls of others (even their own children!)
because their minds and hearts are jammed with
the things of this world?