Whats your favorite Christmas CD/music

I really enjoy Carter Conlon's CD titled [url=http://www.worldchallenge.org/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=WCOS&Product_Code=SPCL-Combo&Category_Code=MM]Where Christmas Never Ends[/url].

I also like Martina McBride's CD titled White Christmas. Although she is a secular artist she has an amazing voice and her rendition of Oh Holy Night is unmatched in my opinion.

In Christ,

Ron

Lynyrd Skynyrd Family Christmas CD

You wouldn't be truly southern if you didn't have at least a little itch for Skynyrd growin up. :-P

In all honesty I've given up on most pop music...especially when it comes to Christmas. Pop singers can't just sing the melodies anymore. Everyone is scatting and doo wopping all the place. Give it a rest already!

Still I've got a couple Secular faves. Other then a Charlie brown Christmas (Which in my opinion is actually sacred music;-) ) I really like Harry Connick Jr.s "Harry for ther Holidays." He has a really intelligent arrangement for O Little Town of Bethlehem.

The incredible 12 voice choir Chanticleer has a beautiful historic survey of Christmas music called "Sing we Christmas."

And what Christmas list would be complete without Handel's Messiah? My preferred edition is a two CD set by Paul McChreesh and the Gabrieli Consort & Players played on period instruments. While Handel usually gets all the credit for this famous music, special credit should also go to Charles Jennens who assembled the libretto with a keen understanding not only of the Gospel but also of dramatic story telling. For those of us offended at contempory stlyes of music, it worth noting that Handel's Messiah was considered to be too operatic and theatrical for a sacred work. It actually recieved a lack luster response for it's first years in the public.

MC

I love Elvis' Christmas album...I grew up with Elvis as my mother is a huge Elvis fan, and it's one I just have to listen to each year. I also like Harry Connick Jr, Alabama, Point of Grace, Gaithers, Kenny Rogers, Reba McEntyre, Go Fish, and many others.

My favorite Christmas song is "Its about the Cross" by Go Fish...you can find it on youtube if you want to hear it, someone made a video to it.

Rudolph the red nose rein deer song. :-P

The 1st Alabama Christmas album is great. The 2nd one was ok. I love "Christmas In Dixie"

I have the 2nd one. I love "the Blessings." But I do have some of the songs from the first one too. Christmas in Dixie is one of them. I like it too.

I also have both of Harry's albums. I like his arrangements.

I also found a couple of albums online. Kids for Christmas...exactly what it says. and all music for "Jesus' birthday. My kids and I love it.

Have never been, nor ever will be a fan of John Denver.

I'm not really a fan either. I do have a couple of his Christmas songs though.

My kids really like Alvin and the Chipmunks...their favorite is "All I want for Christmas is my two front teeth." I always liked the chipmunks too when I was a kid.

Thanks, I'll check it out. But I'm always leery of new movies with old characters...and I'm especially leery of movies aimed at children.

I wasnt recommending it because I dont know anything about it... I was just pointing out that they just made an Alvin & Chipmunks movie.

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply you were doing anything other than pointing it out.

Nobody blast Krispy! :)

oh, yeah. I like Burl Ives too. And Bing Crosby.

Confession time: I love the movie Miracle on 34th street! I watch it and It's a Wonderful Life usually on the same day. I like White Christmas and Christmas in Connecticut too.

Thanks for letting me know! I'll probably just watch my video though, because I hate commercial interruptions. :)

Well,

This year I've been listening to "A Little Christmas" by Legacy Five, " A Greater Visions Christmas" by Greater Vision, "Christmas with Brian Free and Assurance", "Dream a Dream" by Charlotte Church, "The Carol of Emmanuel" by David Klinkenberg, "Noel" by Josh Groban, and some of Iworship's Christmas CDs.

Edit: And, "A Charlie Brown Christmas". :-D

Jordan

Although we don't "break out the Christmas music" at Christmastime like some do, there are a couple of Christmas CDs that I enjoy listening to throughout the year. I think my favorite is the Messiah and my other favorite would have to be "Hale and Wilder Sing Christmas" by Robert Hale and Dean Wilder. They are both opera style, which I don't usually like, but both are beautiful and worshipful. This Christmas God has helped me to focus more on Him and the amazing gift He has given to us.

Isn't it amazing that even secular stores will put on Christian Christmas carols during Christmastime? It is neat since so many of theses carols are deep and meaningful. I pray that people would listen to the words and have a desire to know more about why we celebrate Christmas.

Mikah

This is probably going to cause WWIII to break out here in the forum, but I'll go ahead and say it anyhow:

For me, if the person doesn't live it, I don't want to hear him or her sing it. I say this respectfully, but I also say it unflinchingly. I don't know of anything that turns me off more than a secular person adorned in the choir robe of the hypocrite. This goes for Elvis, Johnny Cash, Oak Ridge Boys, Mariah Carey, Frank Sinatra, you name it. When the pretty Jesus songs are over, they take their choir robes off and continue in their sin. What kind of message are they sending? It would have been better if the Name of Jesus had never been spoken in the recording studio.

Imagine Nehemiah and the descendants of Asaph lending an ear to Sanballat and Tobias and the Moabite choir as they sang the songs of David outside the walls of Jerusalem. Imagine them stopping the building of the walls and working in the temple to sit and listen to the beautiful voices for a few minutes and smile and be amused or even worse - [i]edified.[/i]

Okay, I'm wide open (speads his arms). Who's gonna chuck the first snowball?

8-)

Brother Paul

My favorite recorded Christmas music is Handel's Messiah -the classical version -the entire thing.

In a neighboring city, the commumity presents this every year. It used to be given at the First Baptist church but in recent years it is now given at the Catholic church. Anyhow, we went one year and the way they sang it just about made me go crazy. They appeared to have run out of time and just stopped in the middle of a song. I know it so well I can anticipate the lyrics and music. And when they do not finish it, I am just about fit to be tied!

PaulWest wrote:
For me, if the person doesn't live it, I don't want to hear him or her sing it.

I understand your point. I feel this way when I go listen to the Messiah. (I have had too many religious singles as clients at CPC). Or when we go to the Methodist Church's singing Christmas tree. Others have told me they use the term "Jesus" rarely in their worship service: God is ok but not Jesus. And they are also tolorant of unrepentant homosexuals. Knowing this puts a damper on my enthusiasm for their otherwise excellent concert. So we just will not go anymore - am afraid that by attending they will take this as approval of their doctrine, lifestyle.

Have a blessed Christmas,
ginnyrose

I feel this way when I go listen to the Messiah.

My wife and I went to see the Austin symphony and choir perform "Messiah" last year, and we did not enjoy it because of this very reason. I am a huge classical music buff, I'm the type of guy that is very picky with his selctions; depending on the composer, only certain conductors and symphony orchestras are acceptable. I've been avidly into classical and baroque music since I was 16, collecting Bach and Handel and Vivladi and Telemann music...but my maturity in the Lord is getting to the point where I cannot go to public performance of music (such as Handel's Messiah) if it's being done merely for entertainment value.

All I can tell you is that we were both grieved in spirit and knew we made a mistake, and I avowed to my wife never again will we do this. This is sad because I love Handel's Messiah and also Bach's Christmas Oratorio. But if the conducter and performers are not God-fearing, I will not pay to hear the Holy Name of Jesus be used as a vehicle of soulish entertainment.

Brother Paul

I agree, it is better to hear these things from those who are Godly. Unfortunately that is hard to find in the public arena to sing such things that is Godly!

I also wonder if someone having to sing words that are SOOO powerful if at some point God may use them to prick their hearts. I don't see how anyone can sing "For He is like a refiner's fire" and not get convicted...

Nevertheless, Handel's Messiah and Fernando Ortega's "Let all Mortal Flesh Keep Silent"

Thanks for the perspectives!
Lori

Hi Paul,

You make a compelling case and your perspective on the secular use of once sacred music is one I admire.

I would, however, like to add my own perspective. I offer this only as an alternative and not a rebuttal. I am perfectly convinced of the merit in what you shared, and I have no desire to alter your feelings.

As a young artist growing up in the church I was always aware of a certain disdain and even detachment evangelicals in general have for the arts...which ostensibly communicates a broader disdain for humanity, and and even broader disdain for creation. The only use for artisitc expression among modern evangelicals is for rank prostelyzing...yet the arts themselves were a specific quality of mankind that most resembles the Creator.

As a young man in the Church, I happily discovered the writings of Francis Shaefer. Culture has an expression that transcends the individuals who write music and paint paintings. We are thankful to God for those who have come before us, allowing us to stand high on the shoulders of thier lives and achievements consecrated to God. In the past Europe's greatest thinkers were God-fearing Christians who were able to apply their intellects for both worship and for humanitarian and scientific benevolence. Their great achievements shaped and overshadow Western civilization...for centuries all that came after Bach, or Newton live in their shadows.

Yet today, evangelicals are happily becoming intellectual midgets with a short term apocalyptic disdain towards all human endeavors. We once were mankinds greatest entreprenures of progress, now we are cheap bourgeois speculators living off the acomplishments of heathen scientists and artists while making no greater artistic expression then tawdry end-times movies and sentimental radio jingles. The heathen spend millions of dollars expressing their darkness, or limited light, in science and art, while we spend millions on building projects and other worthless financial endeavors, all the while becoming children drinking the milk of their culture. (and whining about it...)

This is one reason, I believe, why paganism and humanism have become increasingly attractive...because Christians seem to have no regard for humanity or creation in general.

Earlier this week I was listening in my car to a youtube video of Faure's Pie Jesu that I had downloaded into my iPod. I have no idea as to the spiritual state of Faure, or the conductor or the soloist. It was honestly not a polished performance...it seemed like a poorly mic'd small chamber orchestra in someone's local church. Yet, I candidly share now in this forum, as I listened to the artistic effort of these talented amateurs, I strangely wept in that moment with both admiration and pity for all mankind...and I prayed most spontaneously, "Please God. Human beings are a most wonderous creation...I know we are capable of great evil, but when I see what spark of divinity still resides within these fallen beast, what faint reflection of glory is still latent in these shattered images, how even the unsaved are bestowed by their creator with such capacity for worship...I cannot bear the thought of seeing them destoyed or cut off from hope without feeling overwhelming sorrow."

In this light I not require a singer of Messiah to be a Christian. I see serious art of even this 200 year old music as more honesty then is found on the shallow stage of modern evangelical religion...at times a plaintive and even rebellous honesty...but an honesty nevertheless that enables me to stay empathetic for, rather then disdainful of, endangered humanity. Handels' Messiah may be all the exposure to the actual Messiah, these people have.

So when I see our countries greatest artists performing the Messiah, I do not percieve soulish performers making a mockery of a sacred theme. I see instead that our centuries finest musicians cannot escape the light of the Gospel. Centuries ago there were Christians who were also artists with the ability and enrgy to shape entire civilizations... and yet had the humilty to employ these talents for worship to God. Handels' testimony "I did think I did see all heaven before me, and the great God Himself" is vividly preserved in every note played and heard by every unbelieving musician and concert goer. (And maybe a few believers you might have presumed were not present...) Handel may be no longer alive in the Earth, but his achievements and the light of his testimony remain with us.

So, with a heart of pity for mankind, most of who is surely lost, why would we desire to see sacred music banned from our secular concert halls? The transmission of the Gospel is all but extinguished in our age...especially by conventional middle-class evangelicals who have no vision...why squelch it further when it is the world who is footing the bill and putting in the practice time?

Let all flesh bless his holy name for ever and ever...Therefore will I give thanks unto thee, O LORD, among the heathen, and sing praises unto thy name.

Just another viewpoint!

MC

Brother Paul, singing the songs of Zion from the lips of heathen, I consider it as an abomination before the Lord. And not just that, also the many thousands CD's and 'touching' songs from the CCM industry recorded from unconverted people for the sake of profit and men's exalting and entertainment.

About the snowballs, I believe that the true Church of Jesus Christ will face bullet-balls in the days ahead from the christian religious crowds accompanied and with the support of the heathens. Mainly because of disturbing their lifestyle and comfort of living.

What an amazing record is given in the Scriptures about the reaction of the heathen, when the two prophets were killed, which were sent to prophecy (Rev.11:3):

Rev 11:10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall [u]rejoice over them[/u], and make merry, [u]and shall send gifts one to another[/u]; [b]because these two prophets tormented[/b] them that dwelt on the earth.

Kire

I totally understand where you're coming from, Mike. I read your entire post, and I didn't quote any particular section...because I'd have to quote the whole thing! It's Marvellous.

That said, let me try to express my thoughts a bit differently. My eschewing secular performances of religiously-inspired pieces is not out of an aire of spiritual superiority over unregenerate humanity, or even based upon a disdain for the lack of godly authenticity in the public forum of entertainment. It's more of a personal issue.

I realize that Handel himself was probably not born-again, and that the debut performance of Messiah in Dublin was amidst the common folk, sung and performed by secular musicans. It was an operatically staged performance, Handel undertook while in the midst of financial debt after a string of failures on the London stage. It was never meant to be an evangelical masterwork, though the entire basis of the work was built on scripture. The problem I have with it (and again, it's personal) is that the scriptures that are being tearlessly, unctionlessly sung to the yuppie jetsetters in attendance today happen to be the same scriptures that I've wept over in secret quiet time.

As I was in attendance last year, I just remember my conscience smitting me. This was because I went for the music, not the scriptures. See, I really love the grand Handelian choir works, the awesome cadences (unfortunately Austin doesn't have much of a power symphony, and the choir was way too small) and I just went to hear how the interpretation would be. And, like I said, my wife and I were disappointed. Disenchanted at the vacuous energy of the instrumentalists and unpersuasiveness of the choir, I began to focus soley on the libretto (the underlying scriptures) and that's when I really began to feel uncomfortable. I felt as though the scriptures were being cheapified, sung platitudinously at the behest of tradtion-loving, unsaved people.

Unsaved people don't come to Handel's Messiah for the scripture (the Word of God); they come for the music, the show, the ambience, and the scripture libretto is just ancillary. At the conservatory I had Jewish friends who totally rejected Jesus Christ but totally accepted Handel's Messiah - they loved to sing the choruses, [i]"For, unto us a child is born.."[/i]

It was just words to them, a fairy tale, mythology like if they were singing about Phoebus and Pan or Ino. People only stand for the Hallelujah Chorus because of King George's tradition, and not for God. I will not judge anyone who goes to a public performance of the Messiah (I know Smith Wigglesworth loved to go), all I can say is that if you've wept in brokeness over Isaiah 53 at the feet of Jesus...and then go to a concert hall where the same scripture is being sung tearlessly while people are getting up to take cell phone calls...

It changes you. And then, to have God say, "Why are you here, Paul?"

That settles the issue very quickly. And, in the car, on the way home, my wife said she didn't feel right either. It all just seemed so...well, profane and plastic. But I dare not judge a brother or sister who goes to a public performance of Messiah. Just don't go see the Austin Symphony! The London singers are much better, or Sir Neville Mariner conducting the Academy of St. Martin-in-the-Fields.

Brother Paul

I don't know anyone that is "living it" and deserves to sing any song. Everyone that I thought I knew who was "living it" turned out to be hypocrites themselves or their doctrine is way off.

This is sad, and I'm sorry to hear this. I happen to know a few people that [i]are[/i] living it, though they are only mortal men of flesh like you and I.

So I have no idea what this "living the life" is.

Living the life of God in Christ is not something your physical eyes see. It is an inner quickening of your spirit by the Holy Spirit, a transformation wrought through grace that translates you from being carnally minded to having the mind of Christ....where sin is hated and now pleasing and obeying God is all that matters. And when you have this mind of Christ you do not sing "The First Noel" like Elvis and then sleep with your groupies. This is what I mean. I'm not sharpshooting Elvis or whoever else might be your favorite Christmas music singer - but what I [i]am[/i] saying is that a tree is known by its fruit.

And a snow ball back at you...(crunch) 8-)

Brother Paul

Hi Kire,

Brother Paul, singing the songs of Zion from the lips of heathen, I consider it as an abomination before the Lord.

I'm not so sure (we can make such a blanket statement). Perhaps these people will be judged all the more for their indifference to the light that passed through their lips without residing in their hearts...but I do not believe this is an abomination automatically. Who knows how the word of God will go out...we do know that it does not return void.

I think we can all agree that cultural religion is not true worship of Jesus..and perhaps our fear is that people will become immune to the Gospel with their small diluted doses of it every Christmas. Yet, we also know that the Lord calls people in at different ages in their lives, and I hve seen that when the crisis hits a person who has been raised in Christian tradition, that person is more likely to call upon the 'God of his forefathers' then not.

This is a conversation about how to be in the world but not of it I suppose. I wish we could talk to some of the people who lived through the communist revolution in the former USSR. Perhaps they could tell us about various organizations like the League of Militant Godless who systematically stamped out all traces of the church in their society. We might romance about this...but I believe it scarred Russian society. The Soviets complained about the unfair advantage of the Americans, but they killed the soul of their own people. Certainly Richard Wurbrand didn't seem to think the eastern europeans were better off without cultural christianity.

I for one am cautiously accepting of Elvis singing sappy Christmas songs, and even gospel songs ...rather then nationalitic songs for the Soviet party or Islamic prayers. He may indeed have been a heathen, but his commercial choices of music reveals he lived relatively close to the light of the Gospel rather then some opressive or demonic system. It is important to note that he at least had enough respect for Christian traditions to fake respect for Christian traditions. Cultural Christianity is not the worse thing unless it is all that exists...in fact when the real Church does exist then at her borders will be those who are still influenced by her example, and wanting to live according to her ideals without the real power to do so. In other words, cultural Christianity is in many ways an unavoidable pitfall of real Christianity, like Barry Bonds is a result of Hank Aaron; true truth often inspires pretend truth.

Living the life of God in Christ is not something your physical eyes see.

I think this is a very healthy rule to keep in mind. Along these lines we cannot see God's steps for men. Just today my wife and I were reminded how God weaves even our failures into his care for us.

We enter into Christ and like a 747 he transports us to our destination. None of us are wise enough to give other men direction to heaven...except through Jesus! We know how to give men direction into Jesus and therin they are hidden away untill the day of arrival. So keeping men close to Jesus is the thing...and forgive me, but I think secular produced music with Christian themes in the concert hall or on the radio is one step closer in the right direction then any other secular produced music. (Although I can appreciate that we would rather it wasn't played by the symphony in Austin!;-) )

In the end, I mostly agree with Paul and Kire. However I would seek clarification as to how we should proceed in our reactions to unbelievers singing Christian themes.

Blessings,

MC

What is so distressing to me is that it is the large worldly churches, if you please, that can really put on a wonderful production. Hey! I love music, love the excellence in their performance! And you could rightly say, "yeah, all it was IS just a performance" and you are right. The smaller churches do not have the resourses at their disposal to put on such a magnificant production.

Have you ever seen "The Miracle" at Pigeon Forge, TN? That is just wonderful, but are the performers godly? Who knows? I have no idea. I love all of it except for the part where a lady acted like a seducer - at this I cringe. But she was, oh so good... Then you come to the point some make that acting, even as a profession is sinful, taking their clue from ancient Christian writers who opposed stage acting as being hypocritical.

You want excellence in music, but you do not want hypocrites working as ministers to you of God's word...

Can't win. "sigh" :-o

ginnyrose

Brothers,

Paul and MC ... Read through your most recent expressions here last night and could only pray for this spirit of heart honesty to take hold of us all here. I hesitate, as Paul spoke so well to, to even excerpting from what you wrote MC but I am compelled nonetheless ...

Earlier this week I was listening in my car to a youtube video of Faure's Pie Jesu that I had downloaded into my iPod. I have no idea as to the spiritual state of Faure, or the conductor or the soloist. It was honestly not a polished performance...it seemed like a poorly mic'd small chamber orchestra in someone's local church. Yet, I candidly share now in this forum, as I listened to the artistic effort of these talented amateurs, I strangely wept in that moment with both admiration and pity for all mankind...and I prayed most spontaneously, "Please God. Human beings are a most wonderous creation...I know we are capable of great evil, but when I see what spark of divinity still resides within these fallen beast, what faint reflection of glory is still latent in these shattered images, how even the unsaved are bestowed by their creator with such capacity for worship...I cannot bear the thought of seeing them destoyed or cut off from hope without feeling overwhelming sorrow."

You got to the heart of the matter brother and likewise Paul as well. My own expression contains both of your hearts and ... This is so much better than an earlier attempt I had at trying to wrestle out why this whole upheaval over Christmas and ... I cannot finish the thought here, lest I taint this.

This is extraordinary brothers, I bless God for it and for you both.

Not to leave out anyone else in the slightest.

Hi ginnyrose...

Have you ever seen "The Miracle" at Pigeon Forge, TN? That is just wonderful, but are the performers godly? Who knows? I have no idea. I love all of it except for the part where a lady acted like a seducer - at this I cringe. But she was, oh so good... Then you come to the point some make that acting, even as a profession is sinful, taking their clue from ancient Christian writers who opposed stage acting as being hypocritical.

You want excellence in music, but you do not want hypocrites working as ministers to you of God's word...

Can't win. "sigh"

:-(

By the way, I am currently listening to Josh Groban's [i]Noel[/i]. His rendition of [i]Silent Night[/i] is lovely.

Thanks, Krispy, as usual, I am in perfect agreement with ya! :-P

Dear Compliments,

It is sad, as someone else said, that you can't find anyone who is truly "living it", especially since that is what Christ has called all Christians to do. I do know several people who are [i]truly[/i] living it; I have been in their homes, I have heard their spouses speak of their selflessness and love at home, I have seen them live the life of Christ on a day to day level. My grandfather is one of them. I don't think I have ever heard him say a harsh word to my grandmother; he is loving and compassionate even though it doesn't really come naturally to him since he is a strong German. He lives what he preaches (quite literally, since he is a pastor) and that is something I value in him. I do agree with you that it is rare, but it is possible by God's grace. Praise the Lord for that!!

Mikah

What eloquent replies!

When I was a child, I used to sit by the lighted tree and sing Silent Night quietly until someone got up. I didn't know what it truly meant or where it came from, I just liked the music and I thought it was appropriate, at age 11.

The year after I was born again I went to a church "Contada" and I was overwhelmed weeping when they sang a song that said, "He became one of us." It meant so much to me to realize that Christ had laid aside His glory and became human on my behalf.

Now as I look back 25 years later I see that we humans have an error within us, we do not always see as God sees; neither do we hear as God hears. Oft times we speak before we give time for fruit to grow, before we fall on our faces and pray for the backslider or the opressed doubter.

My heart still rejoices when I see a child singing with all their hearts to the Lord; I also rejoice when I see an old man, battered by life and sin barely holding onto breath singing Amazing Grace. Sometimes the song of a bird at just the right time causes me to consider the birds of the air and how the Father takes care of them (which do not have an eternal soul); or I will hear a song by a secular artist which shows a searching soul for an eternal ache and I will pray that God will reveal Himself to them.

I have also been offended at some who call themselves Christian performers or artists and in my heart I sense that they are stumbling blocks for the weak. Sometimes singing scriptural error with mere emotional cues and demanding mere emotional response.

I surely agree, I would rather hear a child sing Silent Night, or a secular artist sing a song saying "O come let us adore Him!" than to hear error in the church.

Thanks for the differnt insights!

(By the way, several years ago when asked to sing around Christmas time at the church I was attending I sang this song....... most folks were quite confused.....)

"Let all mortal flesh keep silent, and with fear and trembling stand. Ponder nothing earthly minded for with blessings in His hand, Christ our God to earth descended, our full homage to demand.
Rank on rank the host of heaven, spread their vanguard on the way, as the Light of Lights descended from the realms of endless day that the power hell be vanquished; as the darkness slips away.
At His feet the six winged seriph, cheribum with sleepless eye, veil their faces to His presence as with ceaseless voice they cry, Hallelujah, Hallelujah, Hallelujah Lord Most High."

Now, I don't "celebrate" the worlds idea of "Christmas", altough, now I enjoy Christ birth, death, and resurrection everyday in my heart. I want to be giving and generous everyday to those around me, my family and the less fortunate. By the way, I like to sing songs about Christs Incarnation whatever the time of year!!! How great of a song is Hark the Herald Angels Sing!? God and sinners reconciled! Veiled in flesh the Godhead see, Hail the incarnate Diety!! How great is that?!
Lori

When I think of Christmas Carols it's not the lives of the person singing that I connect with the song, it's the style and the atmosphere it creates.

I suppose for me it's the complete opposite: when I encounter Jesus Christ and anything even remotely associated with His Name and glory, I am so very [i]apprehensive[/i] of relegating the experience to one of style or atmosphere. Other things may lend well to this, to plumb the depths of nostaligia, but not using the Name of my Lord and God as a vehicle to do so.

When Bing is crooning in the back ground I dont get an image of Bing... I get nostalgic about Christmas pasts when I was a kid visiting my grandparents. The smell of apple pie baking, Christmas cookies, honey comb, and Bing Crosby in the back ground.

I've got nothing against Bing, and I concur with the above. Let Bing sing his heart out! The only issue I'll have is when Bing or Elvis Presley or Cash begins to sing about my Husband with an adoration that obviously did not extend outside the recording studio. Others may derive edification from such performances (without judgment), and indeed, such sounds will evoke nostalgia. But Christ, for me, transends nostalgia, and I refuse to allow my soul to utilize a heathenistic employing of his Name as a transporting vehicle to fit the season.

It's more of a stylistic thing for me, and not necessarily about the person.

The opposite is true for me. Style has no bearing whatsoever if the channel by which the Name of Christ flows is impure, ingenuine. The question now, therefore, is this: how do we differentiate between a pure and impure vessel? Those of us that are in leadership positions in a local assembly, do we just allow anyone to get on the platform and preach, or sing, or lead worship? If not, how is it different here? We have total say on what we allow to grace the platforms of our ears and hearts and minds. Shall we flood our eargates with water from a corrupted well for the "soul" purpose of floating a boat down nostalgia canal?

Paul named Johnny Cash and the Oak Ridge Boys. Johnny Cash was a very complex man, but he claimed to be a born again Christian. Would I agree with everything he ever did? Probably not. But he did show evidence of being saved. The Oaks started as a gospel group, then went secular, and are now a gospel group again. Having just read an interview with Joe Bonsall (the tenor), I came away confident that at least three of the members truly are committed Christians. He said "I am a born again Christian."

I really think we need to grow some backbone in this area, and start calling the shots as they are. Krispy, you're a big man, you play football. I've heard you finger many, many preachers here in forums as false teachers - and unabashedly - and 99.9% of the time I believe you are right!

And you are also right to say we cannot judge a man's salvation. Truthfully, I didn't know that the Oak Ridge Boys went back strickly to gospel. I do know, however, that many an entertainer has named Christ Lord, and has sung songs of adoration with mixed fruit on the brances. When I come to a orange tree, I want oranges; not appleranges. Johnny Cash may have been a complex man - and hence his complex fruit - though I am certainly not to judge his salvation, or say it is [i]sin[/i] to listen to Bing croon about Jesus.

My problem with Cash, again, is [i]mixed fruit[/i]. One moment it's Jesus is Lord, the next it's Tennessee Stud or Fulsom Prison Blues or drinking and fist fighting and shooting and a-whoring. Rotten fruit taints all that touches it. I think it is feasible to point the finger to the fruit, and exclaim: "As for me and my family, we won't eat from such a tree, born-again confession or no born-again confession."

See, dear brother, there's just too many [i]real[/i] trees to eat from, too many trees that yield [i]uncomplicated and holy[/i] fruit. These trees shall I eat from, and with a good conscience, and with an inner witness the Holy Spirit can honor. Why bother with the complex? Let God judge the root; I meanwhile abstain from the fruit, and I can do this with a clean conscience.

Just my thoughts, anyhow.

Brother Paul

I think you may think there is something sexual about that song, but trust me, it's about a stud horse. (you need to visit a horse farm! LOL) There is nothing wrong with that song, and in fact it is an old Appalachian folk song.

This is what I mean, brother - there's [i]a lot[/i] wrong with Tennesse Studd. And if you think shooting a man dead during a poker game and galloping off with with "silver and gold"...

Me and the gambler, we couldn't agree
We got in a fight over Tennessee
Pulled our guns and he fell with a thud
And I rode away on a Tennessee Stud

...is clean, well, I don't know what to tell you. Brother this is bad fruit, and this is a bad song. 90% of Cash's songs contain these elements (unless he happens to be singing a religious song), but, see, this is the damage. Mixed fruit, some rotten some sweet. I'd rather stay away from it all, shun it all, and teach others to do so, and label the tree for what it is: "A bad tree." Brother, I've heard you say many good things, and make many fine judgments (save condoning alcohol and tobacco); I just don't understand why you can't apply the same standards to music and entertainers. Like I said in a previous thread, music is a soulish issue, it perverts a man's good judgment. It will cause him to tolerate that which is not beneficial for spiritual growth, and even fight to justify and keep it.

This reminds me of a young man who used to be in my youth group. He wanted to be a youth leader, but he couldn't stop dipping. Wherever he went, he had to have his little round pack of Copenhagen bulging out the pocket of his Wranglers. He told us that he would two-step, dip, drink a beer every now and then, that God didn't judge him for it and neither should man. He would tell us that "the new Spiderman movie is totally clean and safe" and that the kids can go see it. And then, a 12 year old child would pipe up: "No, mister Dan. They had kissin' scene, an then some guy got kill't with a spear in his stomach..."

"Oh," he would say, and scratch his head. "Well, apart from that...it's clean!"

I just wanted to respond to it being clearly stated in your post that certain people were not Christians

That's right, I said it. I think you and I may have different ideas of what a true Christian is, Steve. A true, born of the spirit Christian will [i]not[/i] write songs of such a filthy nature nature and then profess Christ publically, not for very long, and certainly not the Christ of Holy Scripture. And if he is a Christman, he is horribly backslidden and others need to be warned that what promotes is not a true representation of Christianity.

I'll fight this one to the core, Steve, so get ready. Your endorsement of Tennesse Stud opened the doors to potential mayhem!

Brother Paul

I wish we could just discuss Christmas music here. I wasnt looking for a debate... I was looking for a light hearted discussion about Christmas music.

A discussion about Christmas music will invariably lead to who is singing it. We as Christians will always be concerned for the souls of others and human nature introduces a certain level of complication to this, albeit unnecessarily.

Oh well.

I do have a few thoughts to toss out. Not being confrontational…just stating my thoughts and opinions.

I wrote this the other night.

Every time I hear Dean Martin’s beautiful singing voice I smile as the memories of watching Him and Jerry Lewis when I was a child come rushing back. Just the other night while visiting my parents I heard him singing Let It Snow. What a voice; I enjoyed it immensely. In my opinion NOBODY sings Let It Snow like Dino.

I have always been greatly affected by music and now that I’m a Christian I find this has not changed, but something about it is different. I guess I’m just the opposite of some in this aspect for I can rarely hear a song and not think of the person(s) singing it, and their motivation for doing so. For me it used to be just about the music…now it’s about the people too. I now hear the voice of one of God’s creations. I still hear and recognize God given talent, but now by the end of the song I’m usually in tears or close to it when I think about their relationship with God. Not judging them…it’s just that their lifestyles and the Word don’t add up.

One of my all time favorite songs is Just a Closer Walk With Thee. When I was first saved my favorite rendition was by Willie Nelson but I cannot listen to it any longer. It just saddens me to much.

When I hear the seemingly unsaved singing hymns and songs of worship I wonder…did they bring glory to God…or was it illicit fire?

I have prayed for Willie Nelson and those like him…that they be saved. They have taken precious offerings of worship and adoration and turned them into…merely songs.

I would love to hear Mr. Nelson sing that song under different circumstances…truly offering his best to his God, but until then it will be just a song he sings…and I can find no joy in it.

Peace be with you all.

Okay, I was in a hurry this morning when I typed my post (I didn't get out of the wrong side of bed) and I was and am actually in a real good mood. It is a shame we can't see our faces when we type. When I wrote the last sentence about "I am ready to fight this to the core" I meant debate-wise, and loving debate. I don't think I can be accused of typing posts in this forum with a hateful, beligerent spirit. But, when it comes to something like this, I'll stand against it. I'll call out Steve's judgment, not because I dislike Steve, but because since he put it forth publically, it must be called out publically.

This is the same thing that happened when we "discussed" Iron Maiden. Brother, I read your posts carefully. Very carefully. You have a great personality here, but you can also rub people the wrong way with your forthrightness. I am the same way! My only advice to you is be prepared to end that which you start here. You offered absolutely nothing in the way of the lyrics I provided for Tennesse Stud, a public challenge to you. I love you brother, but either you don't take my posts seriously or you get blustered by the shellshock too early and end up appealling to emotions (crying ad hominem). O dear brother, I am not angry! I am just looking for you to hatch this out with me, with maturity, piece by piece.

You can do it, Steve. I'm just lobbing the snowball back to you. One thing I've learned is that if you are going to be a Christian with prominent convictions, buy a crash helmet. We can do this in brotherly love, I promise.

:-D

Brother Paul

Bottom line tho, Paul... is that I love you.

And this statement conquers all, and I know you understand this same love is reciprocated. I don't even need to send you a PM, because the Selfsame Spirit that lives in me, lives in you also. He bears witness to us both and for us both.

"Discussions" on music are so dangerous. They have a tendency to morph into something quite unappealing. I think this is the final nail for me, brethren, as far as this topic goes. The last thing I want is to be guilty of assuming the role of the Holy Spirit in this forum.

Krispy, please forgive me if I've been shoving you around. I need to humble myself. If you can find it in your heart, please be in prayer for your brother. By the grace of God, I'll be preaching tomorrow evening, 7 p.m.

Like you said: "It's all good." It's [i]more[/i] than good! Yes, we love can each other with the love of God!

Brother Paul

My favorite Christmas album is Third Day's Christmas Offerings

i don't have too many christmas cd's but the one we bought this year is frank sinatra. my wife and i really like the J-I-N-G-L-E BELLS song from him. it is a little upbeat and my 11 month old son started dancing (bending at the knees to the beat) to this song. so it is special to us for this reason.

my favorite christmas song is O COME O COME EMMANUEL. it ministers to me so much.

merry christmas,
phil

Uh ohhh... dancing?? Better get that kid saved!!

(...just kidding!!)

Krispy

i don't want to rabbit trail this thread with that dancing comment. ;-)

phil