Menu

False prophet preacing FLUFF??

B
brentw

I was watching Paul Washers video yesterday...loved it!! I am going to ask about false prophets and I know it probably is posted somewhere here...I realized theres probably nothing new that can be wrote about here anyway. But someone will probably still tell me so anyhow..

Paul Washer was talking about false prophets in the sense of preaching sugar coated sermons.
"Peace, peace when there is no peace"...if a pastor was always preaching "FLUFF" and sometimes preaching convicting sermons would you call that a false prophet??

S
sermonindex


"Shall I not visit for these things? saith the Lord: shall not my should be avenged on such a nation as this? A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land; The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?"
-Jeremiah 5:29-31

"bear rule by [b]their means[/b]" if a preacher is able to preach without God then this is looked upon not well by God. If people are preaching "fluff" then we can possibly ascertain that they are not preaching what the Lord is telling them or wanting them to preach.

Nothing is worse then multitudes of preachers who are capable and can bear their own rule with erudition and charisma. Heaven weeps when there are no weak men in the pulpit who hear soley from the God of heaven.

H
hmmhmm

I think some will have more wisdom in answering this, but i heard from a sermon from Zac Poonen latly, that he mentioned something that stuck with me, he was speaking about Jeremiah , and he said basically Jeremiah was preaching the same message for 40 years.

and maybe some of you has recived a message from God but you changed it because someone thought you should be more "balanced".

maybe in some cases yes, but if God has given a certain message to you, you should stick with it as Jeremiah did.

NLT

[b]Jer 20:8 Whenever I speak, the words come out in a violent outburst. "Violence and destruction!" I shout. So these messages from the LORD have made me a household joke.
Jer 20:9 And I can't stop! If I say I'll never mention the LORD or speak in his name, his word burns in my heart like a fire. It's like a fire in my bones! I am weary of holding it in![/b]

Just some thoughts....

Christian

S
sermonindex

Well I would first have to say, there are no such things as 'prophets' in the old testament, or gospels since of the word, but there are many teachers and preachers and I would have to say that there are (according to scripture) many of those out there.

Let me also add that these people don't know or think of themselves as false teachers. Their as zealous as the next in teaching or preaching their message.

I think that in most cases, like Jude for example, the people that they were talking about were the Jews who were trying put the new converts, (mostly jews) back under the law, so they were mixing law and grace and corrupting people with their false teaching and preaching, same as today, nothing has changed.

S
sermonindex


brentw wrote:
I was watching Paul Washers video yesterday...loved it!! I am going to ask about false prophets and I know it probably is posted somewhere here...I realized theres probably nothing new that can be wrote about here anyway. But someone will probably still tell me so anyhow..

Paul Washer was talking about false prophets in the sense of preaching sugar coated sermons.
"Peace, peace when there is no peace"...if a pastor was always preaching "FLUFF" and sometimes preaching convicting sermons would you call that a false prophet??

Ahhh, but there is peace, it is the gospel of peace, and for now God is not the judge, he is the prince of peace. It is good news, after all that's what gospel means, good news. This scripture that you quoted was when Israel was about to be judged as a nation. This is the age of GRACE. The church age. A great mystery to the prophets in the old testament. Daniel was not able to understand it.

For now all sin is covered. Jesus paid the debt on the cross. It IS a time of peace and grace no matter what the hell fire and brimstone preachers will tell you.

S
sermonindex

For now all sin is covered. Jesus paid the debt on the cross. It IS a time of peace and grace no matter what the hell fire and brimstone preachers will tell you.

Brother,

You have fully committed yourself to dispensational teachings which is foreign to the early church and the reformers. "This" what you are saying is another gospel which does not save from sin. There is only peace for those that accept and come to Christ, for those outside their portion is only weeping and gnasing of teeth, the bible says there is no peace for the wicked. God's wrath abides on the children of disobedience "right now" if you look carefully enough in the new testament you can find this teaching.

I am not meaning to come down hard on you but this is very important, I implore you to read your new testament and when you come to those "hard verses" underline them in a bible, and when you have done that for the entire new testament read through them all together and perhaps things will come together more.

The sad fact is many people teaching this new gospel are experts on skipping over all 100 scriptures that speak of God's anger, wrath on sin and sinners in the new testament.

But oh how much more glorious does grace appear in light of this if we are in the beloved.

S
sermonindex


sermonindex wrote:
For now all sin is covered. Jesus paid the debt on the cross. It IS a time of peace and grace no matter what the hell fire and brimstone preachers will tell you.

Brother,

You have fully committed yourself to dispensational teachings which is foreign to the early church and the reformers. "This" what you are saying is another gospel which does not save from sin. There is only peace for those that accept and come to Christ, for those outside their portion is only weeping and gnasing of teeth, the bible says there is no peace for the wicked. God's wrath abides on the children of disobedience "right now" if you look carefully enough in the new testament you can find this teaching.

I am not meaning to come down hard on you but this is very important, I implore you to read your new testament and when you come to those "hard verses" underline them in a bible, and when you have done that for the entire new testament read through them all together and perhaps things will come together more.

The sad fact is many people teaching this new gospel are experts on skipping over all 100 scriptures that speak of God's anger, wrath on sin and sinners in the new testament.

But oh how much more glorious does grace appear in light of this if we are in the beloved.

I am a dispensationalist in my beliefs. I do believe that there are certain dispensations in which God deals with a certain people or world for that matter in a different way than in other times, and it all has to do with the word of God. God's word is finished in it's entirety, so there no need for prophets, etc....

This being another gospel is absurd. if it were another gospel I guess you would have to throw out the word of God because if you study it long enough you would have to realize it is the simple truth. God has and does deal differently with people in certain times and time frames, it's not really that big an issue, it's just good scholarship.

For God so loved THE WORLD, that he gave his only begotten son. That seems cliche, but it's the simple truth, he don't just love the jews, or the greeks, or the geeks, or the freaks. He loves everyone and everyone is predestined for heaven, but it is our choice to turn from him or except him. Whosoever will may come. His blood has predestined the whole world.

I understand that there are many that have gone after the way of Baalam, and are preaching a feel good message only to tickle the ears of the people, so they can line their pockets.

I still have to say that the gospel is good news, and we are living in the best DISPENSATION. ;-)

C
c52

Peace?, read Mt. 10. Our King is not here, this world is being ruled by the enemy. Peace? I beg to differ!...

S
sermonindex

For now all sin is covered. Jesus paid the debt on the cross. It IS a time of peace and grace no matter what the hell fire and brimstone preachers will tell you.

It obviously is not a time and peace for those who are without Christ, because only those In Christ have peace with God that WE will not be called to God's wrath, for He took our wrath.

Why would you not want to warn those without Christ about His coming wrath or eternal damnation?

This IS teh most difficult time for any Christian through out all ages, for there is a great responsibility on our shoulders....

Chiefosinners, Have you considered the following:

Chiefosinners.

Reading Hebrews 11 along with what is said for the Saints in the NT, I don’t believe anytime is greater or more easy or better. OT Saints, although under law, still lived by Faith. The life of Faith is not easy, and will become I believe even more difficult through out the end of time.

We have the Holy Spirit in us, yes that does make it somewhat easier then the OT Saints who according to Hebrews 11 the author makes a comment that the world is not even worthy of them. That should make us even more ashamed.


Acts 9:16
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.


Philippians 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Galatians 6:12
As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

Acts 5:41
And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.


2 Thessalonians 1:
4So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 5Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

1 Peter 4:12-14
12Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

13But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

1 Peter 3:14
But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

1 Peter 2:22-24
22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:


James 5:10
Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

Hebrews 11:24-26
24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

2 Timothy 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Yea, and all tht preach the Gospel to teh Lost will suffer persecution and death....Witness's mean martyr. Now we have this witness within us, Christ Himself, operating in our lives through the Holy Spirit. A no fluff message!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did ;-)

S
sermonindex


Katy-did wrote:
For now all sin is covered. Jesus paid the debt on the cross. It IS a time of peace and grace no matter what the hell fire and brimstone preachers will tell you.

It obviously is not a time and peace for those who are without Christ, because only those In Christ have peace with God that WE will not be called to God's wrath, for He took our wrath.

Why would you not want to warn those without Christ about His coming wrath or eternal damnation?

This IS teh most difficult time for any Christian through out all ages, for there is a great responsibility on our shoulders....

Chiefosinners, Have you considered the following:

Chiefosinners.

Reading Hebrews 11 along with what is said for the Saints in the NT, I don’t believe anytime is greater or more easy or better. OT Saints, although under law, still lived by Faith. The life of Faith is not easy, and will become I believe even more difficult through out the end of time.

We have the Holy Spirit in us, yes that does make it somewhat easier then the OT Saints who according to Hebrews 11 the author makes a comment that the world is not even worthy of them. That should make us even more ashamed.


Acts 9:16
For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.


Philippians 1:29
For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Galatians 6:12
As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

Acts 5:41
And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.


2 Thessalonians 1:
4So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of God for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure: 5Which is a manifest token of the righteous judgment of God, that ye may be counted worthy of the kingdom of God, for which ye also suffer:

1 Peter 4:16
Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

1 Peter 4:12-14
12Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:

13But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
14If ye be reproached for the name of Christ, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of God resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.

1 Peter 3:14
But and if ye suffer for righteousness' sake, happy are ye: and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;

1 Peter 2:22-24
22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:

23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:


James 5:10
Take, my brethren, the prophets, who have spoken in the name of the Lord, for an example of suffering affliction, and of patience.

Hebrews 11:24-26
24By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter;

25Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season;

26Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

2 Timothy 3:12
Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

Yea, and all tht preach the Gospel to teh Lost will suffer persecution and death....Witness's mean martyr. Now we have this witness within us, Christ Himself, operating in our lives through the Holy Spirit. A no fluff message!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did ;-)

Well I don't apologize for my stand. "Perfect love casteth out all fear, he that feareth is not made perfect in love". I realize what the early church went through and even in the last century more have been martyred for the name of Christ than in any other time, but this does'nt mean their saved. Im willing to bet that there will be many who thought that if they would just lose theri life for Christ they would end up in heaven, but again, that's not faith. I could run into a crouded mall full of people with bombs strapped on and blow it up in the name of Christ but this doesnt get me anywhere but dead. It's the same thing, some commy wants me to renounce Christ or he'll blow my head off. My thoughts could be this "If I do this I will be a HERO to the christian faith, everyone will just love me I will finally be somebody". That's not faith. What if you had nothing to lose and your death would make you a hero? Theres no sacrifice in that. Just because someone loses their life doesnt mean anything. whats the motive behind it.

The only thing that keeps God from blowing up this world is the blood of Christ, Gods son. That's it. Nothing more. We can't do anything to help matters. Our life means nothing to God as a sacrifice. His Son is the ONLY thing that pleases him. Our faith is all that's required.

C
crsschk

Well I would first have to say, there are no such things as 'prophets' in the old testament, or gospels since of the word, but there are many teachers and preachers and I would have to say that there are (according to scripture) many of those out there.

Could you clarify that?

This being another gospel is absurd. if it were another gospel I guess you would have to throw out the word of God because if you study it long enough you would have to realize it is the simple truth. God has and does deal differently with people in certain times and time frames, it's not really that big an issue, it's just good scholarship.

Good scholarship brother is to consider everything that the scriptures teach;

[i]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:[/i] 2Ti 3:16

Would challenge you perhaps in a different way. It is very difficult to wrest from our presuppositions whatever they may be. Such is my disdain for what amounts to 'preprogramming' by way of holding to certain constructs as rules of measurement; Predestination. Calvinism. Arminianism. Dispensationalism. Just about anything that has an 'ism' or an 'ian' attached to it. That doesn't mean there isn't anything true of them only that the inference is to either be on the defensive (if it is your 'holding' or 'belief') or on the offensive if you are a detractor. Seems to be standard debating and normative though I might inject more worldly tactics, standards of going about things.

What throws a big wrench in all this is just one word; Consider.

That is the great challenge for all of us.

Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

A true Berean mindset. If you were take SI collectively you would find great variance and difference of perspective and truly much to consider and reconsider. I could but pray for more ignorance actually on some of these particular 'holdings' that become doctrines in their own right, dogmatic where honesty would require more consideration and quite often a loosening of position.

And perhaps that is one of our great fears; To change our mind is thought to court embarrassment when in reality it is the sweetest most wonderful and liberating things there is. It truly baffles the mind that for all the resources, for all the experience and study of so many of us, the heart searching and scripture searching, the encouragement and attempts towards edifying one another that it is such a rare thing to hear; "I was wrong", "I never considered that before", and the rarest of all; "I changed my mind."

Certainly this a launch off into generalities at your expense perhaps. But brother, I cannot tell you how much all of this has changed and rearranged, challenged me profoundly, all by just considering, especially those things that can be a bit irksome, generally and often more so by their presentation or motivation ... Many things that are true are given in a spirit of vindictiveness, haughtiness, peevish or a prideful manner. Sometimes it is just our own reluctance or aptness to jump to the defense if not to conclusions. One of the great challenging questions is often, "Why am I offended?", "Should I be?", "Need I be?" It is a derivative of the Lords;

Joh 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

For God so loved THE WORLD, that he gave his only begotten son. That seems cliche, but it's the simple truth, he don't just love the jews, or the greeks, or the geeks, or the freaks. He loves everyone and everyone is predestined for heaven, but it is our choice to turn from him or except him. Whosoever will may come. His blood has predestined the whole world.

Ahhh, but there is peace, it is the gospel of peace, and for now God is not the judge, he is the prince of peace. It is good news, after all that's what gospel means, good news. This scripture that you quoted was when Israel was about to be judged as a nation. This is the age of GRACE. The church age. A great mystery to the prophets in the old testament. Daniel was not able to understand it.

For now all sin is covered. Jesus paid the debt on the cross. It IS a time of peace and grace no matter what the hell fire and brimstone preachers will tell you.

Not to forget the greater context;

Joh 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

More for consideration;

[i][u]Think not[/u] that I am come to send [b]peace[/b] on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.

For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.[/i] Mat 10:34-39

(If you do not know by way of experience what all is entailed by way of this 'variance' that the Lord speaks of, it is anything but peaceful brother)

[i]If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple. For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? [/i] Luk 14:26-28

[i]Now thanks be unto God, which always causeth us to triumph in Christ, and maketh manifest the savour of his knowledge by us in every place. For we are unto God a sweet savour of Christ, in them that are saved, and in them that perish: To the one we are the savour of death unto death; and to the other the savour of life unto life. And who is sufficient for these things? For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.[/i] 2Co 2:14-17

Just with these few verses there is a very great implication if we were to think about it. One of the old oft quoted lines recalled from memory goes along this sort of order; "[i]I wish I had never read that.[/i]" Or 'heard' it, 'knew it'. The inference being that one is unable to plead ignorance any longer.

The point is also presented in these verses of very [i]bad news[/i] to those that reject them. Certainly paradox is involved, it is good news indeed, that is the Gospel, but it is not without cost or consideration of what that cost is.

The trouble with dispensationalism is that it can twist things out of proportion.

Mal 3:6 For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed.

[i]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.[/i] Mat 5:17,18

The book of Hebrews is very informative, if one was to attempt to encapsulate it, certainly it is not something of an alteration to the lesser but the greater. No longer is it in ritual and sacrifice, types and shadows but if I may in sheer exposure of the depths and burrows of the heart, [i]in spirit and truth[/i];

[i]But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.[/i] Joh 4:23,24

[i]God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.[/i] Heb 1:1-4

If there is anything of a alteration in 'dispensation' it is that the demands are higher and more penetrating, difficult to put it this way because in effect they have always been in place ...

[i]Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device. [u]And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:[/u] Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.[/i] Act 17:29-31

[i]Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture*, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.[/i] 1Pe 2:6-8 (*Isa 8:14)

[i]But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;[/i] 1Co 1:23

[i]And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner? Whosoever shall fall upon that stone shall be broken; but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.[/i] Luk 20:17,18

Just for consideration brother. It is far too simplistic the way you are presenting it, the greatest "hell fire and brimstone" preacher was none other than the Lord Himself;

Mat 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Mat 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Mat 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

C
crsschk

Well I don't apologize for my stand. "Perfect love casteth out all fear, he that feareth is not made perfect in love".

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2.\tWe are not to suppose that the love of God casts out every kind of fear from the soul; it only casts out that which has torment.

1.\tA filial fear is consistent with the highest degrees of love; and even necessary to the preservation of that grace. This is properly its guardian; and, without this, love would soon degenerate into listlessness, or presumptive boldness.

2.\tNor does it cast out that fear which is so necessary to the preservation of life; that fear which leads a man to flee from danger lest his life should be destroyed.

3.\tNor does it cast out that fear which may be engendered by sudden alarm. All these are necessary to our well-being. But it destroys,

1.\tThe fear of want;
2.\tThe fear of death; and
3.\tThe fear or terror of judgment. All these fears bring torment, and are inconsistent with this perfect love.

Adam Clarke

~~~~~~~~~~~

We are required to work out our [i]salvation, katergazesthe.[/i] The word signifies [i]working thoroughly[/i] at a thing, and taking [i]true pains.[/i] Observe, We must be diligent in the use of all the means which conduce to our salvation. We must not only work at our salvation, by doing something now and then about it; but we must work out our salvation, by doing all that is to be done, and persevering therein to the end. Salvation is the great thing we should mind, and set our hearts upon; and we cannot attain salvation without the utmost care and diligence. He adds, [i]With fear and trembling[/i], that is, with great care and circumspection: “Trembling for fear lest you miscarry and come short. Be careful to do every thing in religion in the best manner, and fear lest under all your advantages you should so much as [i]seem to come short[/i],” Heb_4:1. Fear is a great guard and preservative from evil.

II. He urges this from the consideration of their readiness always to obey the gospel: [i]“As you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, [/i]Phi_2:12. You have been always willing to comply with every discovery of the will of God; and that in my absence as well as presence. You make it to appear that regard to Christ, and care of your souls, sway more with you than any mode of showing respect whatsoever.” They were not merely awed by the apostle's presence, but did it even [i]much more in his absence[/i]. “And because [i]it is God who worketh in you[/i], do you work out your salvation. Work, for he worketh.” It should encourage us to do our utmost, because our [i]labour shall not be in vain.[/i] God is ready to concur with his grace, and assist our faithful endeavours. Observe, Though we must use our utmost endeavours in working out our salvation, yet still we must go forth, and go on, in a dependence upon the grace of God. His grace works in us in a way suitable to our natures, and in concurrence with our endeavours; and the operations of God's grace in us are so far from excusing, that they are intended to quicken and engage our endeavours. “And work out our salvation with [i]fear and trembling[/i], for [i]he worketh in you.[/i]” All our working depends upon his working in us. “Do not trifle with God by neglects and delays, lest you provoke him to withdraw his help, and all your endeavours prove in vain. Work with [i]fear[/i], for he works of his [i]good pleasure.” - To will and to do[/i]: he gives the whole ability. It is the grace of God which inclines the will to that which is good: and then enables us to perform it, and to act according to our principles. [i]Thou hast wrought all our works in us[/i], Isa_26:12. [i]Of his good pleasure.[/i] As there is no strength in us, so there is no merit in us. As we cannot act without God's grace, so we cannot claim it, nor pretend to deserve it. God's good will to us is the cause of his good work in us; and he is under no engagements to his creatures, but those of his gracious promise.

Matthew Henry


I realize what the early church went through and even in the last century more have been martyred for the name of Christ than in any other time, but this does'nt mean their saved. Im willing to bet that there will be many who thought that if they would just lose theri life for Christ they would end up in heaven, but again, that's not faith.

I could run into a crouded mall full of people with bombs strapped on and blow it up in the name of Christ but this doesnt get me anywhere but dead. It's the same thing, some commy wants me to renounce Christ or he'll blow my head off. My thoughts could be this "If I do this I will be a HERO to the christian faith, everyone will just love me I will finally be somebody". That's not faith. What if you had nothing to lose and your death would make you a hero? Theres no sacrifice in that. Just because someone loses their life doesnt mean anything. whats the motive behind it.

The only thing that keeps God from blowing up this world is the blood of Christ, Gods son. That's it. Nothing more. We can't do anything to help matters. Our life means nothing to God as a sacrifice. His Son is the ONLY thing that pleases him. Our faith is all that's required.

[i]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? [/i] Jas 2:14-20

S
sermonindex


crsschk wrote:
Well I don't apologize for my stand. "Perfect love casteth out all fear, he that feareth is not made perfect in love".

Php 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

2.\tWe are not to suppose that the love of God casts out every kind of fear from the soul; it only casts out that which has torment.

1.\tA filial fear is consistent with the highest degrees of love; and even necessary to the preservation of that grace. This is properly its guardian; and, without this, love would soon degenerate into listlessness, or presumptive boldness.

2.\tNor does it cast out that fear which is so necessary to the preservation of life; that fear which leads a man to flee from danger lest his life should be destroyed.

3.\tNor does it cast out that fear which may be engendered by sudden alarm. All these are necessary to our well-being. But it destroys,

1.\tThe fear of want;
2.\tThe fear of death; and
3.\tThe fear or terror of judgment. All these fears bring torment, and are inconsistent with this perfect love.

Adam Clarke

~~~~~~~~~~~

We are required to work out our [i]salvation, katergazesthe.[/i] The word signifies [i]working thoroughly[/i] at a thing, and taking [i]true pains.[/i] Observe, We must be diligent in the use of all the means which conduce to our salvation. We must not only work at our salvation, by doing something now and then about it; but we must work out our salvation, by doing all that is to be done, and persevering therein to the end. Salvation is the great thing we should mind, and set our hearts upon; and we cannot attain salvation without the utmost care and diligence. He adds, [i]With fear and trembling[/i], that is, with great care and circumspection: “Trembling for fear lest you miscarry and come short. Be careful to do every thing in religion in the best manner, and fear lest under all your advantages you should so much as [i]seem to come short[/i],” Heb_4:1. Fear is a great guard and preservative from evil.

II. He urges this from the consideration of their readiness always to obey the gospel: [i]“As you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, [/i]Phi_2:12. You have been always willing to comply with every discovery of the will of God; and that in my absence as well as presence. You make it to appear that regard to Christ, and care of your souls, sway more with you than any mode of showing respect whatsoever.” They were not merely awed by the apostle's presence, but did it even [i]much more in his absence[/i]. “And because [i]it is God who worketh in you[/i], do you work out your salvation. Work, for he worketh.” It should encourage us to do our utmost, because our [i]labour shall not be in vain.[/i] God is ready to concur with his grace, and assist our faithful endeavours. Observe, Though we must use our utmost endeavours in working out our salvation, yet still we must go forth, and go on, in a dependence upon the grace of God. His grace works in us in a way suitable to our natures, and in concurrence with our endeavours; and the operations of God's grace in us are so far from excusing, that they are intended to quicken and engage our endeavours. “And work out our salvation with [i]fear and trembling[/i], for [i]he worketh in you.[/i]” All our working depends upon his working in us. “Do not trifle with God by neglects and delays, lest you provoke him to withdraw his help, and all your endeavours prove in vain. Work with [i]fear[/i], for he works of his [i]good pleasure.” - To will and to do[/i]: he gives the whole ability. It is the grace of God which inclines the will to that which is good: and then enables us to perform it, and to act according to our principles. [i]Thou hast wrought all our works in us[/i], Isa_26:12. [i]Of his good pleasure.[/i] As there is no strength in us, so there is no merit in us. As we cannot act without God's grace, so we cannot claim it, nor pretend to deserve it. God's good will to us is the cause of his good work in us; and he is under no engagements to his creatures, but those of his gracious promise.

Matthew Henry


I realize what the early church went through and even in the last century more have been martyred for the name of Christ than in any other time, but this does'nt mean their saved. Im willing to bet that there will be many who thought that if they would just lose theri life for Christ they would end up in heaven, but again, that's not faith.

I could run into a crouded mall full of people with bombs strapped on and blow it up in the name of Christ but this doesnt get me anywhere but dead. It's the same thing, some commy wants me to renounce Christ or he'll blow my head off. My thoughts could be this "If I do this I will be a HERO to the christian faith, everyone will just love me I will finally be somebody". That's not faith. What if you had nothing to lose and your death would make you a hero? Theres no sacrifice in that. Just because someone loses their life doesnt mean anything. whats the motive behind it.

The only thing that keeps God from blowing up this world is the blood of Christ, Gods son. That's it. Nothing more. We can't do anything to help matters. Our life means nothing to God as a sacrifice. His Son is the ONLY thing that pleases him. Our faith is all that's required.

[i]What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? [/i] Jas 2:14-20

I've argued my point so many times that now it really seems pointless. It's not gonna change your view or edify you, and more than likely it will cause division and discourse between myself and many others here. So instead of trying to win an unwinable arguement i will just say this. No matter what you or I or anyone else believes there is an element of truth in all doctrines, and philopsophys, even worldy philosophys such as Darwinism. That tells me something. That God has his hand in everything, and everything was created for him, and his glory ,and he will get glory out of everything, no matter if it is godless, and cursed, or pure, and holy.

For our salvation it's all or nothing. It's either all Christ or nothing. We could sit and argue about scriptures and I could tell you why it was written and specifically who it was written to and you could say that it was written for all christians and then i could argue my point and then you argue your point but that will not get us anywhere, what's the point. i've wrestled over these issues until I have peace about what I believe. I truly believe God has wrought those things that I believe in my heart as you could probably say for yourself. So why argue? Lets talk about things we can all agree on. probably everyone here that posts on a regular basis is a real christian. i don't doubt that. some of us have swallowed poisonous doctrines that have hurt us, but I believe it's Gods way of teaching us in many cases. Sometimes it's just our own stubborn will and pride that causes us to make mistakes. I don't want others to make the same mistakes I did because I know the grief and hell it caused me, but I have to realize in most cases theres nothing I can do. God has to teach them. It's like watching a helpless child be carried off by a wolf. You want to help so badly but he's too fast and there are probably many more waiting just beyond the tree line.

So instead of argueing with you brother I will just say "Thank you very much for the response I appreciate the concern."

C
c52

The only thing that keeps God from blowing up this world is the blood...our life means nothing to God as a sacrifice...

I beg to differ: He is long-suffering towards us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentence.
I beg to differ: I beseech you therefore brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice...

Isn't His Word wonderful? I'm sure glad that some of the opinions I see written on the web-site are just that, opinions, and not His truth---otherwise, I'd be doomed.

S
sermonindex


c52 wrote:
The only thing that keeps God from blowing up this world is the blood...our life means nothing to God as a sacrifice...

I beg to differ: He is long-suffering towards us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentence.
I beg to differ: I beseech you therefore brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice...

Isn't His Word wonderful? I'm sure glad that some of the opinions I see written on the web-site are just that, opinions, and not His truth---otherwise, I'd be doomed.

Are you trying to pick a fight? :-x well it's not gonna work 8-)

S
sermonindex

I could run into a crouded mall full of people with bombs strapped on and blow it up in the name of Christ but this doesnt get me anywhere but dead.

Is this what you think a martyr is?

Please look in your storng's, it means WITNESS.

Who said anything about running into a mall and killing in teh name of Jesus?

WOW! Hold on here a minute.

Paul clearly tells us:

Romans 8:35-37
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.


So, you think you were saved to just sit around in all your glory while others witnessing for the Gospel **are being killed***, and you are just going to walk away thinking you are not called to suffer for the sake of the Gospel as well?:

JAson, I believe you have been deceived **AGAIN**with false doctrine!!!

Paul said too in Romans...Those who suffer with Him will **Reign with Him**..Those who suffer with Him, will be **Glorified together with Him**.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did


S
sermonindex

"Peace, peace when there is no peace"...if a pastor was always preaching "FLUFF" and sometimes preaching convicting sermons would you call that a false prophet??
First of all, are all preachers Prophets? Are not prophets who prophesy?

S
sermonindex


First of all, are all preachers Prophets? Are not prophets who prophesy?


Not all who claim to be prophets have the testimony of Jesus Christ, which is "Christ In You", the Hope of Glory.

Many today have made a farce out of prophecy and prophesying about having new and different ideas not in scripture.

But here is what the Bible says about NT Prophecy and those who Prophesy.

Are you testifying about the very life of Christ in you...? Even if you don't open your mouth, the Holy Spirit within you conforming you to the Image of Jesus Christ is quite evident.

Here's what Paul tells us. Is this YOUR doing or God's? For me, I have no control over it.

2 Corinthians 4:10-12

10Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

11For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

12So then death worketh in us, but life in you.


Revelation 19:10
And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Who is making war with who?

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

S
sermonindex


Katy-did wrote:
I could run into a crouded mall full of people with bombs strapped on and blow it up in the name of Christ but this doesnt get me anywhere but dead.

Is this what you think a martyr is?

Please look in your storng's, it means WITNESS.

Who said anything about running into a mall and killing in teh name of Jesus?

WOW! Hold on here a minute.

Paul clearly tells us:

Romans 8:35-37
35Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
37Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.


So, you think you were saved to just sit around in all your glory while others witnessing for the Gospel **are being killed***, and you are just going to walk away thinking you are not called to suffer for the sake of the Gospel as well?:

JAson, I believe you have been deceived **AGAIN**with false doctrine!!!

Paul said too in Romans...Those who suffer with Him will **Reign with Him**..Those who suffer with Him, will be **Glorified together with Him**.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did


Actually, there are many that do this very same thing that call themselves martyrs. I think that many people that lose their life, whether walking into a crouded mall, or refusing to renounce Christ, think this is a sure way to enter heaven, when in fact it's not. It's just another form of works, does'nt get ya nowhere. Sorry. :-(

Let me turn that question around on you. So tell me Katy-did, how have you suffered for Jesus? Will it be enough? If we have to suffer, well, I sure hope you have suffered enough, because if you havent than your just a hypocrite.

S
sermonindex

Actually, there are many that do this very same thing that call themselves martyrs. I think that many people that lose their life, whether walking into a crowded mall, or refusing to renounce Christ, think this is a sure way to enter heaven, when in fact it's not. It's just another form of works, does'nt get ya nowhere. Sorry

Oh Dear!!!

Well, like I said, it's something you have no control over.

Works are when you decide to run ahead and do something for the Glory of God, only to find out it's for your own glory....yep...that is false.

However, those who belong to the Lord have no Idea how the Lord plans to pour them out a drink offering day after day, as they die to self.

Jason, babies know their sins are forgiven...YEA!!! but we go on from there...young men have overcome the evil one...and that takes a mighty skillful handling of the sword. Have you ever met a swordsman that didn't have to work at it, and get cut here and there along the way?

Are you and over comer who never went into combat???

Oh I see, one of those who was given a desk job because he had connections?:-? Not in God's army!!!

Possibly a 4f maybe????? :-P Not in God's Army....He's actually looking for as many 4f ranks as He can.....that's where His Glory shines the most!


All righty then!!!:-(

Hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

S
sermonindex

Alright sister :-x I like the wise cracks, your my kind of person :-P Hard to find someone as smart elicky as me :-P

But you still havent answered my question. What have you suffered for Christ. You stated earlier that we MUST SUFFER for our saviour, so do tell, what have you sister KATEEEEEDID, suffered for our precious saviour. If you havent than your not practicing what you preach, and that makes you a bonified, HIP-O-CRIT. ;-)

Balls in your court sis 8-) All eyes are on you :-o Your reputation on SI is on the line. CAN YOU HANDLE THE PRRRRESSSSSSSSHHHHHHAAAAAAAA!!! :-?

B
brentw

Boy O boy did we ever get off topic on this one. ;-)

I have been pondering being in a "fluffy" church setting...there needs to be a light in the midst!?

I had a Episcopal church fly me out several years ago to preach one Sunday...DID I FEEL OUT OF PLACE....I met a sister their and she said to me she was called their to be a light in the darkness. She was a Pentocostal.

I believe theres a remnant in almost all "christian churches". A church within the church.

S
sermonindex


brentw wrote:
Boy O boy did we ever get off topic on this one. ;-)

I have been pondering being in a "fluffy" church setting...there needs to be a light in the midst!?

I had a Episcopal church fly me out several years ago to preach one Sunday...DID I FEEL OUT OF PLACE....I met a sister their and she said to me she was called their to be a light in the darkness. She was a Pentocostal.

I believe theres a remnant in almost all "christian churches". A church within the church.

LOL :-P That's good!!!

C
c52


chiefosiners wrote:
Are you trying to pick a fight?

Me? Pick a fight? Nah! It simply amazes though that I see statements like yours on this website. I hope you don't believe some of the things that you say. Many come here to learn what God has said, I hope that they can separate the wheat from the chaff, otherwise they are doomed.

S
sermonindex


c52 wrote:

chiefosiners wrote:
Are you trying to pick a fight?

Me? Pick a fight? Nah! It simply amazes though that I see statements like yours on this website. I hope you don't believe some of the things that you say. Many come here to learn what God has said, I hope that they can separate the wheat from the chaff, otherwise they are doomed.

What are you talking about, seperate the wheat from the chaff? I did'nt say that. I don't know what your talking about.

Tell me what youre talking about and i'll clarify whatever it is your having a problem with. I try not to get too stiff and serious about things because there are enough people here that are STIFF and SERIOUS. I don't mind a friendly debate as long as it doesnt cause hard feelings, and that's what usually happens when your too serious.

I mean, come on. There are some people here that think their John Bunyan, or Charles Spurgeon, or even KING JAMES for that matter. So proper. ggggggrrrrrrr (clearing my throat) I must be so distinguished and proper and I must use vocabulary that goes right over the WORKING mans head. Rediculous.

Have you ever noticed little children? Their foolish. The more foolish you are the more they like you. It's kind of interesting to me that Jesus would say "except you become as one of these". It's o.k. to laugh c5234. It'll do you some good. Loosen up man I don't want to fight.

Hey, I like it when someone rakes me over. You know why? Because I can laugh at myself. I am foolish, and clumsy, and all those things. But ya know what else? I'm a CHILD of the king.

S
sermonindex

What have you suffered for Christ.

Jason, I've shared many things here on SI and one just recently on the Covenant Thread about AFTER I became a Christian.

You have no Idea.

Anyway, I may have overlooked something you said on the Iron=Cross thread. You agreed with Total surrender correct. Now that I re-read that, I don't mean only when we need something. I'm talking about OUR WHOLE Life surrendered to the Lord, once and for all. Without that, you will never know what I am talking about.

Also remember we were bought with a price, and that price is/was beyond our wildest comprehension.

We are here to bring Glory to God, and I know you agree with that, but Glory comes through refinement, and purified by fire...those firey trials and tribulations, having our faith tested, and Boy oh Boy can that be....well....

Can I handle the pressure? I've been in training over 30 years for that very reason, very purpose!!

If your world came crashing down around you overnight, would you be able to handle the pressure? Would you become bitter? Angry? Suicidal? Deny Christ? You may say NO, No and a thousand times NO, but how do you know?

Read James Chapter 1 thoroughly, and ask yourself, are you being perfected >>>>>>an ongoing process through trials? Have you endured that can one day say....there is a Crown of Life laid up for me...have you finished your course, run YOUR race? None of us have, because it will be run until the day we die or the Lord Comes,

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

C
crsschk

Tell me what youre talking about and i'll clarify whatever it is your having a problem with. I try not to get too stiff and serious about things because there are enough people here that are STIFF and SERIOUS. I don't mind a friendly debate as long as it doesnt cause hard feelings, and that's what usually happens when your too serious.

I mean, come on. There are some people here that think their John Bunyan, or Charles Spurgeon, or even KING JAMES for that matter. So proper. ggggggrrrrrrr (clearing my throat) I must be so distinguished and proper and I must use vocabulary that goes right over the WORKING mans head. Rediculous.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=20768&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]"Sober-Mindedness Pressed Upon Youth" Matthew Henry sermon modernized and in installments[/url]

Z
ZekeO


Katy-did wrote:
Glory comes through refinement, and purified by fire...those firey trials and tribulations, having our faith tested, and Boy oh Boy can that be....well....

Can I handle the pressure?

Sorry to interupt a private discussion.

I agree with what you are saying here, but the caveat is that God will never test us beyond what we can endure. As someone who has been in training for 30 years you would know, as I'm sure everyone else who has been involved with physical training, that you can't expect someone to do a hundred pushups from scratch.

Your perspective of trials/test/temptations may be allot different for someone else. I think also, that Jasons idea of trials/tests/temptations are allot different as well.

The key to reading any map is not necessarily were you are going, but where you have come from that gives the proper perspective as to how to get to the end. In terms of our ideas of God, this holds true I believe.

As I sit at my desk the thought of the roman Circus brings to my mind the option of deny Christ and your child shall live, if not then the lions wait for her. That is a gut wrenching thought that I may have to make that decision, I Pray to God not. All I know is that I will not seek out such a thing, and I will try to avoid that ever happening. I may appear that I am not willing to embrace the cross, but who is to say that, that is the cross for me? I may have failed the test in professing Christ to my work colleagues for fear of rejection. Its all relative.

If however circumstances are such that I would have to make a choice, all I know is that when the time comes his grace will be there to endure making the hard one. I will have a choice, and that in itself is an amazing work of Gods grace, in my flesh I would want my child to live.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that our definitions of what something means can sometimes box us in understanding what another person is meaning.

To end here is a little story that illustrates this point.

'A student assistant was about to prepare a test for the next class. He asked "Professor Einstein, which test are we giving them?" To which Einstein replied "The same test as last week!" The assistant, bewildered, asked "But why give them the same test again?" To which Einstein replied, " Because the answers are different this week."

Principle: Your answers will be different based upon what you know.

S
sermonindex


Katy-did wrote:
What have you suffered for Christ.

Jason, I've shared many things here on SI and one just recently on the Covenant Thread about AFTER I became a Christian.

You have no Idea.

Anyway, I may have overlooked something you said on the Iron=Cross thread. You agreed with Total surrender correct. Now that I re-read that, I don't mean only when we need something. I'm talking about OUR WHOLE Life surrendered to the Lord, once and for all. Without that, you will never know what I am talking about.

Also remember we were bought with a price, and that price is/was beyond our wildest comprehension.

We are here to bring Glory to God, and I know you agree with that, but Glory comes through refinement, and purified by fire...those firey trials and tribulations, having our faith tested, and Boy oh Boy can that be....well....

Can I handle the pressure? I've been in training over 30 years for that very reason, very purpose!!

If your world came crashing down around you overnight, would you be able to handle the pressure? Would you become bitter? Angry? Suicidal? Deny Christ? You may say NO, No and a thousand times NO, but how do you know?

Read James Chapter 1 thoroughly, and ask yourself, are you being perfected >>>>>>an ongoing process through trials? Have you endured that can one day say....there is a Crown of Life laid up for me...have you finished your course, run YOUR race? None of us have, because it will be run until the day we die or the Lord Comes,

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

I understand what you are saying Katy-Did. We hold two different views on total surrender. I do belive in total surrender but not in the same way that you view it. I believe total surrender is just that, giving up and saying I can't do this. I'm not strong enough.

Jesus has already won the battle. There is NO BATTLE. It's over. If we try to go against the enemy he'll give us a battle, but through Christ theres no battle to be fought because hes already won. He's defeated sin, hell, and death. These battles that we fight are mostly fought in the mind. Satan wants to draw us away from our armour, which is Christ, so he can render us defenseless. The more we try to fight the battle on our own, the more we'll be defeated.

It's not God getting the glory out of OUR life. It's God getting the glory through Christ. It's all Jesus. Our mind set has to shift from ourselves to Christ. It has nothing to do with us sister.


I have a wife, a daughter, and twin baby boys, and I would do whatever it took to protect them. I hope I never have to do anything like that but i'm gonna tell you right now I would do WHATEVER it took.

My race? I will finish my race and fight a good fight regardless of the outcome of my life because I'm in Christ.

"I've fought a good fight, I've finished my course, I've kept THE FAITH." Whose faith? Jesus faith. See? It's all Jesus.

S
sermonindex


Jason, this is one ONE of the thing I am referring to:

Also Romans 12:1&2 is not a lay away plan.


Philippians 3:10

That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

16Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

17Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

18(For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:

19Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

20For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:

21Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

S
sermonindex

I agree with what you are saying here, but the caveat is that God will never test us beyond what we can endure.

Zekeo, I agree with this completely. But the fact is we are tested.

'A student assistant was about to prepare a test for the next class. He asked "Professor Einstein, which test are we giving them?" To which Einstein replied "The same test as last week!" The assistant, bewildered, asked "But why give them the same test again?" To which Einstein replied, " Because the answers are different this week."

Well, Einstein was wrong, the answers are not different.

If we have to retake the test, it's because we failed the test, and will have to keep retaking until we get it correct...**to live by the faith of Christ**. To walk in the works that were finished from the foundation of the world, not ours, but His.

And after you have suffered awhile, God will strengthen establish and settle you.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

S
sermonindex

**to live by the faith of Christ**. To walk in the works that were finished from the foundation of the world, not ours, but his.

My point exactly!! So what is the misunderstanding, I don't get it. :-(

S
sermonindex

My point exactly!! So what is the misunderstanding, I don't get it. :-(

Jason, Philippians 3 is one of the most profound chapters in scripture. Paul, once a devout Pharisee, said he kept the law, blameless, now has found what the life of a True Believer entails ( I placed those scriptures here a couple threads ago).

Paul never gave any indication that he had finished his course. He was actually hands on physically active in this life of Grace.

It wasn't until he was going to his death, that he said, I have kept the faith, I have finished my course, and NOW there is laid up for me a Crown.

We don't skip over this hands on day by day life, living vicariously in the finished product, saying, It's done, and I don't have to participate in any way. He did it all ready, and I will be rewarded later.

You will see Paul said, "be ye followers of Me the way I am of Christ".

Have you all ready stood at the judgement seat of Christ? Have your works been judged, those things done inside and outside the body? Did any burn up? Did you buy of the Lord **Gold tried in the fire**? or are you just assuming it's all Gold without the fire?

Love in Christ
Katy-Did ;-)

S
sermonindex

I disagree. We DON'T HAVE to do anything, theres no demand on us to PRODUCE. If were under some kind of pressure to produce then that is the wrong motive. Jesus said "my yoke is EASY and my burden is LIGHT." Theres no PRESSURE. We witness, and work as God gives us opportunity. Theres no DEMAND on our life. Were not here to create factorys, were here to spread the word.

L
Lowly

Chief of Sinners,
Yes, your conclusion is right, we all must come to the place of complete surrender.....
We can't do it.......
That is what it actually is talking about when it says "to work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

Because we know that we cannot accomplish it, we are diligently with all of our heart, mind, and strength cooperating with the Lord to let Him finish the work in us.

Producing Spiritual fruit, and making us ready for the Master's use

The example Paul uses of his life in Philippians, is actually an exact example of Jesus, when He left His glory in Heaven and became a servant
He made Himself of no reputation, "He emptied Himself"
and then He humbled Himself even to the death of the cross
The death of a criminal..........
These steps are all actions, we are to be actively involved
Knowing we cannot do it , that it is by the power of the Spirit of God working in us.........we are submitted to the Lord to see it accomplished.

Paul emptied himself.......counted all things lost........suffered as a criminal...........lost his reputation.........was fruitful not inspite of this but because of this.............Paul was actively involved in the fight...........He exhorted us to be aware of the enemies, to take up our weapons of warfare, we are in a fight good soldier.

In His amazing love,
Lowly

S
sermonindex


Lowly wrote:
Chief of Sinners,
Yes, your conclusion is right, we all must come to the place of complete surrender.....
We can't do it.......
That is what it actually is talking about when it says "to work out your salvation with fear and trembling"

Because we know that we cannot accomplish it, we are diligently with all of our heart, mind, and strength cooperating with the Lord to let Him finish the work in us.

Producing Spiritual fruit, and making us ready for the Master's use

The example Paul uses of his life in Philippians, is actually an exact example of Jesus, when He left His glory in Heaven and became a servant
He made Himself of no reputation, "He emptied Himself"
and then He humbled Himself even to the death of the cross
The death of a criminal..........
These steps are all actions, we are to be actively involved
Knowing we cannot do it , that it is by the power of the Spirit of God working in us.........we are submitted to the Lord to see it accomplished.

Paul emptied himself.......counted all things lost........suffered as a criminal...........lost his reputation.........was fruitful not inspite of this but because of this.............Paul was actively involved in the fight...........He exhorted us to be aware of the enemies, to take up our weapons of warfare, we are in a fight good soldier.

In His amazing love,
Lowly

Hi lowly, nice to meet you.

The point I'm trying to make is that as long as were in Christ and our mind is in Christ then no matter what were going through, there is no struggle, there is no battle because jesus has won the battle theres no striving or grueling task at hand we can be content in everything no matter the trials we might be facing.

You see that's the only power satan has against a child of God. Th ability to distract and cause us to lose our peace. The bible says'I will keep him in perfect peace whos mind is stayed on me, because he TRUSTS in me." So it's not a struggle as long as our focus is Christ no matter what we go through.

Some may never have a struggle in their christian life, doe's'nt make them any less of a christian. Some may struggle their whole life, does'nt make them any more a christian. The one without the struggles may be more sound in their faith despite having had a comfortable walk. The one who has had nothing but struggles might be firm in their faith as well and you would never know there was a struggle, and quite honestly it may appear to us to be a struggle, but to them there is no struggle because their faith rests in Christ.

You see, Jesus said "Come unto me all ye that LABOR and are HEAVY LADEN, AND I WILL GIVE YOU REST". There is rest in the bosom of Christ, no striving or struggling, just REST. We put pressure on OURSELVES. Christ does'nt put pressure on us. We expect things out of ourselves that Christ doe'nt expect or even want most of the time. That's the world we live in. Go....go...go...go...go...go...go...go....go!

What about "Be still and KNOW that I am GOD."

There is REST in Christ. There is Peace in Christ. There is HOPE in Christ.

L
Lowly

Chief of Sinners,
If that is the point you were trying to make.............I hear you, and I agree with you.
It is because of that rest, peace,and hope in Christ that I can count it all joy when trials come......
And I can know that the trying of my faith is working patience, and as I allow patience to have its perfect work..........it is making me complete so that i will lack nothing.........

It is nice to meet you too,
Lowly

S
sermonindex


Katy-did wrote:

'A student assistant was about to prepare a test for the next class. He asked "Professor Einstein, which test are we giving them?" To which Einstein replied "The same test as last week!" The assistant, bewildered, asked "But why give them the same test again?" To which Einstein replied, " Because the answers are different this week."

Well, Einstein was wrong, the answers are not different.

Yes they are.

The actual answers haven't changed, but the students will have a chance to get the questions right which they got wrong last week. Some of the answers that they'll be writing will change, and so the answers will be different.

S
sermonindex

Well, Einstein was wrong, the answers are not different.

Yes they are.

The actual answers haven't changed....

Cute richardf!!!!!

Wouldn't the answers be a deeper understanding of the question?

A deeper understanding of **Christ in you**...the Hope of Glory!!!

Merry Christmas!!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did ;-)

S
sermonindex

Some may never have a struggle in their christian life, doe's'nt make them any less of a christian

Not according to 1 Peter 4 and many other scriptures.

To me, anyone claiming to be a Christian and one who has NEVER had a struggle, or fellowship of teh sufferings of Christ may want to check and make sure they are in the faith.

Peter said AFTER we have suffered, God will strengthen, settle, and establish you, He uses Job as an example.

Paul prayed in Ephesians, that you would be strengthened by might in the inner man, and to KNOW the length, depth, width and height...which is the very Person on Christ in you, maturing you...... that only comes through stretching you.

Those who know this truth have those stretch marks...the Marks of the Lord.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did ;-)

S
sermonindex

To me, anyone claiming to be a christian and one who has NEVER had a struggle, or fellowship of the sufferings of Christ may want to check and make sure the are n the faith.

I have a bad problem with this. This is you becoming judge and that sister is the spirit of the antichrist, the root of phariseeism. I'm sorry but I totally and completely disagree with this, you are completely taking what Paul said out of context.

S
sermonindex


Katy-did wrote:
Well, Einstein was wrong, the answers are not different.

Yes they are.

The actual answers haven't changed....

Cute richardf!!!!!

Wouldn't the answers be a deeper understanding of the question?

A deeper understanding of **Christ in you**...the Hope of Glory!!!

Merry Christmas!!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did ;-)

Patronising Katy-Did!!!!!

S
sermonindex

I have a bad problem with this. This is you becoming judge and that sister is the spirit of the antichrist, the root of phariseeism. I'm sorry but I totally and completely disagree with this, you are completely taking what Paul said out of context.

I'm really sorry you feel that way Jason. But Jesus Himself said, to Keep your life you will lose it but to lose it you will gain eternal life.

It's a painful process, no matter how you look at it... to die to self, die to the things of this world, to witness....which is costly...is painful. and pain = suffering.

Paul and all the Apostles clearly teach what true Christianity is.

That doesn't make me an anti-christ to make that statement or to bring that FACT to the open.

Actually, Jesus said, If you deny Him, He wll deny you.....that wasn't referring to a verbal...I believe in Jesus, ( even the demons know that).

This is exactly what James is saying in His epistle....Faith without works/obedience is dead.

Obedience of Faith....is obedience unto death...keeping this mind in you that was also in Christ Jesus.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did :-)

S
sermonindex

[b]The Accuser of the Brethren[/b]

There is a reviewer of John MacArthur’s lastest book, [i]The Truth War: Fighting for Certainty in an Age of Deception[/i], who insinuates that the likes of MacArthur are suitably called "the Accuser of the Brethren," also known as Satan. [url=http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0785262636/ref=s9_asin_title_3-2288_p/102-6699843-3878565?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-1&pf_rd_r=1EFRPEWW5KD8CXMF4VF4&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=279438101&pf_rd_i=507846]He wrote:[/url]

[i]"There are so many people who make a ministry out of accusing other people of being cultic and unorthodox.
Satan is the accuser of the brethren. Christians are the brethren and it is not becoming for them to treat one another like this. The devil accuses us and we should not help him."[/i]

So, what the reviewer meant was that MacArthur was guilty of "[url=http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/shootingtheir.htm]shooting his own wounded[/url]."

It is strange that whenever [url=http://puritanreformed.blogspot.com/2007/05/essence-of-neo-evangelicalism.html]names are named[/url], or whenever some favorite personalities are criticized in an essay, book or sermon, deep emotions are often stirred up. Like a pre-pubertal girl infatuated with her pretty boy-next-door, such emotions and loyalties are sometimes hidden until that momentous event - the publication of a critique of her beloved personality. And hell knows no fury like a woman scorned. In the same vein, New Evangelicalism knows no fury like hearing names named.

But what are these names? I mean names of favorite, widely publicized "Christian" personalities, teachers, events or even churches. Such names include Billy Graham, Robert Schuller, and Brian McLaren. It is believed, and sincerely held by numerous believers, that we should not criticize overtly or name such personalities directly in our critiques. Well-meaning Christians insist that we should not name names openly, or publicly expose in an unequivocal manner the identity of such compromising Christian leaders or organizations. But is such a methodology of exposing error erroneous or perhaps unjustified biblically?

Paul commanded Christians everywhere, and indeed, he beseeched them earnestly, to "mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which [we] have learned; and avoid them. For they [i.e. the false teachers] that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple (Romans 16:17-18)"

Paul’s instructions were simple. The first step for us is to "mark them" or keep our eyes on those who cause dissensions and hindrances. But who are "them?" According to some, "them" refers to everyone who disagrees with us! This is, of course, not what Paul is advocating. MacArthur writes, "Paul is not talking about hair splitting over minor interpretations, or about immature believers who are divisive because of personal preferences, as disruptive and damaging as those things can be. We are to "shun foolish controversies and genealogies and strife and disputes about the Law, for they are unprofitable and worthless" (Titus 3:9). We are to "refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels" (2 Tim. 2:23). Paul is here talking about something immeasurably more serious. He is warning about those who challenge and undermine the teaching which you learned, that is, the divinely-revealed apostolic teaching they had received (MacArthur’s New Testament Commentary on Romans 9-16)."

As you might have already realized, false teachings can be divided into three categories. There are those known as differing preferences or opinions. These include different interpretations of certain verses of Scripture (e.g. 1 Corinthians 15:29), as long as these variant interpretations do not influence any major doctrine, or affect any system of theology. The second category is known as systematic errors. Such doctrinal errors are reasonably serious, and affect at least some major doctrines or systems of theology, but at the same time, will not render the Gospel ineffective for salvation of souls. In other words, systematic errors alter one’s system of theology, but will not endanger one’s salvation - provided that the errors are not taken to the logical extreme. Such doctrinal errors include -- Limited Inerrancy ... in that category lies soul damning heresies. Heretical teachings concerning Theology proper, Christology and Soteriology should be included within this last category.

Paul, in my humble opinion, required us to at least "mark" them who are heretics, and to avoid them. Yes. We must avoid them, and not dialogue with them, or shake hands with them, or try to understand their fascinating exegeses concerning some crucial passages of Scripture. MacArthur continues, "The right response of believers to false teachers, especially those who teach their heresy under the guise of Christianity, is not debate or dialogue. We are to turn away from them, to reject what they teach and to protect fellow believers, especially new converts and the immature, from being deceived, confused, and misled (MacArthur’s New Testament Commentary on Romans 9-16)."

My question to those who insist on not publicly exposing such heretics who teach publicly is this, "How do we mark them unless we know who these false teachers are?" "And how do we avoid them if we do not know who to avoid?"

Yes, we can preach against the heresies or other relevant issues concerning a certain false teacher or organization, but unless we can enable the flock to connect the identity of the false teacher with the content of their preaching, we have failed to warn the flock against the wolves. And we can rest assure that such failure will bring with it dire consequences, and eventually, judgment from our Chief Shepherd. We simply cannot afford such a failure if we are to remain faithful to the calling that God has given to every shepherd of His flock.

When we read the New Testament, we realize that our Lord Jesus Christ rebuked false teachers and heretics publicly (Matthew 23). We see Paul rebuking Peter publicly for his compromise of the truth (Gal. 2:9-14). Paul did not beat around the bush to talk about all the related issues, all except to name Peter’s name.

In the Pastoral Epistles alone, eight men are mentioned publicly for their errors (1 Tim. 1:19-20, 2 Tim. 1:15, 2:17, 4:10, 4:14-16). Hymenaeus (1 Tim 1:20, 2 Tim 2:17), Philetus (2 Tim. 2:17-18), Alexander (1 Tim 1:20, 2 Tim 4:14), Demas (2 Tim 4:10), Diotrephes (3 John 9), Phygellus and Hermogenes (2 Tim 1:15) were all properly identified and dealt with in the epistles. If the act of naming names in rebuking error were a sinful attitude likened to that of the "accuser of the brethren," wouldn’t Paul be guilty of "accusing" the brethren just like Satan did? In this case, New Evangelicals are indeed more righteous than the Apostle Paul.

We are commanded to "preach the word," and to "reprove, rebuke, exhort (2 Tim. 4:2)." Thus, reproving error is a matter of obedience. The failure to reprove error, therefore, is disobedience, and is rightly called sin.

I would rather be called an "accuser of the brethren," than to be guilty of sin and failure before my Master and Chief Shepherd. We are the servants of God, not man. And it follows logically that if we are to do the bidding of our King in heaven, we are to follow His Word in the Bible. And Paul says in the Scripture, [i]"Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them[/i] (Romans 16:17)."


vincit omnia veritas


S
sermonindex

You say works is obedience. Have you always been obedient? Have you always done what your supposed to do? If you havent than that is hypocritical.

Notice I didnt call you an antichrist or a pharisee. I said that is the SPIRIT of antichrist when we become judge of others spiritual state.

When the antichrist comes he will set up his throne in the holy of holys and become JUDGE. His word will become final and he will decide on what is good and what is evil. The same way we do when we say that others are not in the faith.


I really do understand what your saying, but there is alittlr leaven in what your saying, and it don't take much to corrupt your doctrine and theology. The foundation is Chrsit without a good foundation in Christ our structure is unstable and will crumble everytime a little wind blows by. I'm just saying this from experience. As long as we keep looking at anything other than Christ our judgement is clouded and we begin to drift.

I agree with He-reigns about false teachers. We SHOULD mark them, and we SHOULD avoid them, and we should not under any circumstances let them teach the flock, but I believe we should TRY to help them since they are victims themselves of false teaching.

They cause more trouble in the church than anyone else. They are the major cause of church splits. I have been one of these trouble makers myself and am so ashamed of the trouble I caused, but God straightened me out with some help from some fellow brothers and sisters who cared enough to reach out a hand and help me.

S
sermonindex

You say works is obedience. Have you always been obedient? Have you always done what your supposed to do? If you havent than that is hypocritical.

Good Morning Jason,

I'm not saying works is obedience. I'm saying James uses the word works in place of obedience of faith.

Now the question is, obedience to what. The Voice of God.

I agree with He-reigns about false teachers. We SHOULD mark them, and we SHOULD avoid them, and we should not under any circumstances let them teach the flock, but I believe we should TRY to help them since they are victims themselves of false teaching.

How do you suggest we do that in light of your next statement?

Jason,

When the antichrist comes he will set up his throne in the holy of holys and become JUDGE. His word will become final and he will decide on what is good and what is evil. The same way we do when we say that others are not in the faith.

Jason, all we can do is point to the Word of God, to the words of Jesus, to the words of the Apostles...that's how we know who is true and who is false...God's word is the final authority.

Pointing out scripture is not the spirit of anti-christ....but quite the opposite.

Now if someone wants to hand you a book, or someone's doctrine....look out!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did ;-)

S
sermonindex


Katy-did wrote:
You say works is obedience. Have you always been obedient? Have you always done what your supposed to do? If you havent than that is hypocritical.

Good Morning Jason,

I'm not saying works is obedience. I'm saying James uses the word works in place of obedience of faith.

Now the question is, obedience to what. The Voice of God.

I agree with He-reigns about false teachers. We SHOULD mark them, and we SHOULD avoid them, and we should not under any circumstances let them teach the flock, but I believe we should TRY to help them since they are victims themselves of false teaching.

How do you suggest we do that in light of your next statement?

Jason,

When the antichrist comes he will set up his throne in the holy of holys and become JUDGE. His word will become final and he will decide on what is good and what is evil. The same way we do when we say that others are not in the faith.

Jason, all we can do is point to the Word of God, to the words of Jesus, to the words of the Apostles...that's how we know who is true and who is false...God's word is the final authority.

Pointing out scripture is not the spirit of anti-christ....but quite the opposite.

Now if someone wants to hand you a book, or someone's doctrine....look out!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did ;-)

Just because someone teaches false teachings does'nt mean their not saved. I do not mean their evil false converts with an appetite for sheep. I just mean that their doctrine is messed up and we can't take a chance that that will spread through the flock, so don't let them teach, and avoid conversation with them, because false doctrine warps the mind and there are things going on inside of them that cause that person to be "unstable in all of his ways".

Would you let a murderer babysit your kids? Absolutely not! This does'nt mean we can't love them and try to help them. It's the same thing with Gods sheep. I would'nt let a wolf take care of the sheep.

The bottom line is Christ. If we move away from Christ we have missed the mark. It really boils down to salvation, "the common salvation" as Jude speaks of. John 3:16 is the most well known passage of scripture.

IF WE DON"T GET ROMANS WE'LL END UP IN JUDE.

This discussion is archived and closed to new replies. Start a new discussion to carry the subject on.
Archived
1 of 47 posts

Everything we make is available for free because of a generous community of supporters.

Donate