Menu

Seventh Day Adventist

S
sermonindex


Some professing Christians are claiming that alot of Seventh Day Adventist are saved and born again. Here is a portion of Ellen White's statements a well known heretic quoted in her own book. These beliefs are seeping into the church and many are fellowshipping with these people professing them to be belivers and brothers in Christ. I wanted to post these comments another brother posted who fortunately stepped in at just the right time, an answer to prayer as I was trying to dissuade these brothers from further fellowship with them and as he was trying to witness to these cult members.

This is a very unfortunate thing that is happening in the body of Christ.

If someone is saved even if they do not believe all of this womans teachings should totally renounce being a part of this cult by not having anything further to do with it.


Romans 16:17
17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.


2 Timothy 2:16-18
16But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.

17And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;

18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

Galatians 1:8-10
8But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

2 Timothy 3:5
5Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

Jude 1:3 3Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.


2 Thessalonians 3:6
6Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

From Ellen White's own book:

Can we be saved by keeping the Law?

Ellen White said: "The condition of the eternal life is now just what it always has been … perfect obedience to the Law of God" (Steps to Christ, page 65,67)

The Bible says: "Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith." - Galatians 3:11 (ESV)

Who bares the sins of the world?

Ellen White said: "Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the penitent will finally be placed." (The Great Controversy,
page 419,422,485,486)

The Bible says: "He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed. " - 1 Peter 2:24

Does the Blood of Christ cleanse us from sin?

Ellen White says: "The blood of Christ was not to cancel sin. (Patriarchs & Prophets, p.357)

The Bible says: "In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace," - Ephesians 1:7

"...the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin." - 1 John 1:7

Should we pay for our sins?

Ellen White says: "The best you can do is to bring a trespass offering to the alter of the Lord, and he will accept and pardon you."
(Testimonies 5:339)

The Bible says: "Where there is forgiveness of these, there is no longer any offering for sin. " - Hebrews 10:18

Can we be assured of salvation?

Ellen White says: "Those who accept the Saviour should never be taught to say or feel that they are saved." (Christ’s Object Lessons; Two Worshippers, p.155)

The Bible says: "I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life. " - 1 John 5:13


S
sermonindex

Here is the link to that thread on Open Air Outreach's message board where we had this conversation about the SDA's! These SDA's have been on this board for quite some time and are persuading other brothers. Thankfully a fellow brother who was more equipped than I was came on the board, an answer to prayer:

http://openairoutreach.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=doctrinaldiscussion&action=display&thread=1197436709&page=1

S
sermonindex

This is serious stuff folks! Fellow believers are being influenced by this cult. I just want you to be aware. We should not be fellowshipping with those who oppose the doctrine of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I
InTheLight

This is indeed a serious matter. You might find the resources at the following link to be of help in this area, most of the material there was written by a former adventist minister who was gloriously delivered into the liberty of Jesus Christ.

[url=http://www.exadventist.com/]Ex Adventist.com[/url]

In Christ,

Ron

S
sermonindex

That looks like a very good websight thank you!

S
sermonindex

Thank you for this

I knew the Adventists tend to hold to many of the OT laws, but didn't realise that their founder actually [i]denied[/i] the true Gospel!

While it is possible, I'm sure, for Adventists to be saved, they would have to leave that movement in order to get anywhere spiritually.

I've known Roman Catholics who obviously knew the Lord too, but unless they came out they would be spiritually stunted.

Jeannette

S
sermonindex


LittleGift wrote:
Thank you for this

I knew the Adventists tend to hold to many of the OT laws, but didn't realise that their founder actually [i]denied[/i] the true Gospel!

While it is possible, I'm sure, for Adventists to be saved, they would have to leave that movement in order to get anywhere spiritually.

I've known Roman Catholics who obviously knew the Lord too, but unless they came out they would be spiritually stunted.

Jeannette


Amen!

Romans 16:17
17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Like alot of cults they try to skirt the issue of the deity of Christ. They are wolves in sheeps clothing and wolves go in through the back door always.

Ellen White denied the deity of Jesus Christ. Check out part four of the John Ankerberg Show with Walter Martin:

http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Video/tabid/502/Default.aspx

You'll have to scroll down.


C
c52

I know any fine born-again Adventists, I think many people that frequent this web-site need to read the Bible more, much ignorance here, try starting out with Mt.chapter 7.

S
sermonindex


If you adhere to the teachings and prophesies of Ellen White than you cannot be born again. If you do not than you should not be a part of this cult and leave it entirely.

Romans 16:17
17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

S
sermonindex


glorytoglory wrote:

If you adhere to the teachings and prophesies of Ellen White than you cannot be born again. If you do not than you should not be a part of this cult and leave it entirely.

Romans 16:17
17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.


I'll give you an example of exactly what I mean:


READ THIS:

Reply #61:
http://openairoutreach.proboards52.com/index.cgi?board=doctrinaldiscussion&action=display&thread=1197080689&page=4

Titus 3:10-11
10A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;

11Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.


C
c52


glorytoglory wrote:
you cannot be born again...mark them which cause divisions...being condemned of himself.


Hummm! I haven't found any adventists here creating division, who is creating a division? Who can say, "you can not be born again"? Who?

J
jayyou

Dear Brother Glorytoglory,

After reading your post I could not but reply to your message. I usually don't get involved in this sort of discussions. but I feel that I have a voice and therefore I must speak.

I have being into trouble in this site before, but I cannot be attacked like this and keep silent.

It doesn't take a rocket cientist to know that you have an opinion about SDAs and for me to try to change your mind about us would somewhat be a mission impossible and I am no Tom Cruise.

But having said that I feel that I cannot pass this opportunity to at least clarify certain things that were said about us.


"""Romans 16:17
17Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.""""

and you went on quoting quite a few texts regarding the same issue.

Now, you are right, Paul preached the Gospel the way it should be preached and I totally agree with you, even if an angel would preach a different Gospel, let him be accursed. But having said that You are assuming that what you preach is that same Gospel that Paul preached, and I have the feeling that a lot of people might disagree with that. If you ask a catholic he will say with all his heart that they preach the gospel of Paul, if you go to a presbyterian He will say the same, baptist, Pentecostals and the list Goes on. I myself, believe that what the SDAs preach is the gospelthat Paul preached. So there we are, You will not convince me that you are right neither will I convince you otherwise.

Now, you are the One causing division by passing judgment on Us. If you do not agree that what we preach is correct than challenge us in scriptures, but openly acuse us of causing division and passing judgment on us, I think this is out of order.

Everyone assume that they are right, otherwise they would be living a lie expecting to be saved by it, It doesn't make sense.

I am not really interested on what this one believes of that one believes and so on. I am interested in what the word of God says to me as an individual.


So, Please let's not pass judgment on anybody, it is not a Christ like thing to do.

My final Goal is the same as yours, and If for a single moment I did not believe that we preach the same gospel that Paul preached, I would not be an SDA.

J
jayyou

Dear brother Glorytoglory,

I have a few question for you.

Quote:""""The Bible says: "Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith." - Galatians 3:11 (ESV)""""

Please allow me to comment on this.

who wrote that the Righteous shall live by faith?

Habakkuk 2:4 But the just shall live by his faith.

Written by someone from the OT, someone that was under the law. Interesting!!!

Now, Paul wrote what you have quoted for this reason.

verse 16
Galatians 2:16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ,

but if you go back to the beginning of the chapter you find this.

Galatians 2:3-4 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),

What was Paul really saying about the works of the law?
Circumcision,
You have to take the whole context of what Pauls was saying.
Now, in anywhere where Paul said that we live by faith or that we are not justified by the law, I can garantee you that if you go back a few verses you will find that he is talking about circumcision.


Now, my question to you is.

Who will be justified according to romans 2


Romans 2:13-15 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

Please brother explaing this text for me.

doers of what law will be justified? see verses 21-22-24

What law do we find (Steal, adultery, and blasphemy the name of God)?

I would love to have your explanation of Romans 2:13

Waiting for your answer brother.

God bless.

S
sermonindex

Obviously there is a huge gulf between what I believe is heresy and what others believe is heresy. I was just told last night by someone else on this other site I am referring to that if you are a Calvanist than you are a heretic.

I already posted what Ellen White teaches and why she is a heretic. Now I am finding out just by starting this thread that there are SDA's on this sight as well. Hopefully you will be persuaded by the lovely christians here that there is true life on this board because they do have Jesus.

By the way I am a woman.

I
InTheLight

I know your questions were not directed at me but I would like to take this opportunity to respond nonetheless.

What was Paul really saying about the works of the law?
Circumcision,
You have to take the whole context of what Pauls was saying.
Now, in anywhere where Paul said that we live by faith or that we are not justified by the law, I can garantee you that if you go back a few verses you will find that he is talking about circumcision.

Let's look at the full context, Paul is speaking of much more than circumcision in Galatians. He is speaking of the whole law. Just a few examples follow.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
(Gal 3:10)(see Deut 11:26-28)

But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years...
(Gal 4:9-10)

For this Agar is [i]mount Sinai[/i] in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
(Gal 4:25-26)

Now, my question to you is. Who will be justified according to romans 2 Romans 2:13-15 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) Please brother explaing this text for me. doers of what law will be justified? see verses 21-22-24 What law do we find (Steal, adultery, and blasphemy the name of God)? I would love to have your explanation of Romans 2:13 Waiting for your answer brother.

From this passage in Romans it seems clear that the basis for judgment is "the secrets of men"(v.16), that is, their heart relationship to God.

If what is hidden in a man is a hard and impenitent heart, a secret self-satisfaction, a false security based on self-righteousness, then his relationship to God is totally and absolutely wrong. Even though he knows the law (or the whole Bible!), and even though he does his best to serve God, he is and remains nothing more than a hearer of the law and not a doer of it, and will therefore be finally judged by that very law. His is a false security. If, however, God finds hidden in man a contrite heart, a broken heart and a tender conscience, then his relationship to God is what it should be. In that sense he is a doer of the law, and will be declared righteous in that day.

In Christ,

Ron

S
sermonindex


InTheLight wrote:
I know your questions were not directed at me but I would like to take this opportunity to respond nonetheless.

What was Paul really saying about the works of the law?
Circumcision,
You have to take the whole context of what Pauls was saying.
Now, in anywhere where Paul said that we live by faith or that we are not justified by the law, I can garantee you that if you go back a few verses you will find that he is talking about circumcision.

Let's look at the full context, Paul is speaking of much more than circumcision in Galatians. He is speaking of the whole law. Just a few examples follow.

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
(Gal 3:10)(see Deut 11:26-28)

But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years...
(Gal 4:9-10)

For this Agar is [i]mount Sinai[/i] in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
(Gal 4:25-26)

Now, my question to you is. Who will be justified according to romans 2 Romans 2:13-15 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified; 14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, 15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) Please brother explaing this text for me. doers of what law will be justified? see verses 21-22-24 What law do we find (Steal, adultery, and blasphemy the name of God)? I would love to have your explanation of Romans 2:13 Waiting for your answer brother.

From this passage in Romans it seems clear that the basis for judgment is "the secrets of men"(v.16), that is, their heart relationship to God.

If what is hidden in a man is a hard and impenitent heart, a secret self-satisfaction, a false security based on self-righteousness, then his relationship to God is totally and absolutely wrong. Even though he knows the law (or the whole Bible!), and even though he does his best to serve God, he is and remains nothing more than a hearer of the law and not a doer of it, and will therefore be finally judged by that very law. His is a false security. If, however, God finds hidden in man a contrite heart, a broken heart and a tender conscience, then his relationship to God is what it should be. In that sense he is a doer of the law, and will be declared righteous in that day.

In Christ,

Ron


Amen, what is actually being taught is all about going back to the law. Being justified by keeping the law. Paul rebuked Peter for going back to the law:

Galatians 2:11-13
11But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.

12For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.

13And the other Jews dissembled likewise with him; insomuch that Barnabas also was carried away with their dissimulation.

The law of the SDA's is that of Ellen White a known heretic being quoted straight out of her own book. It's from this persuasion that Seventh Day Adventism is built upon which is wood, hay and stubble.


J
jayyou

Deareast Sister glorytoglory,

I was reflecting on what you wrote here and I have to say that for some reason this text in the bible came to my mind.


Matthew 5:11-12 "Blessed are you when they revile and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely for My sake. 12 "Rejoice and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

So you made me very happy today Sis and for that I thank you....

You quoted:"""I already posted what Ellen White teaches and why she is a heretic. Now I am finding out just by starting this thread that there are SDA's on this sight as well. Hopefully you will be persuaded by the lovely christians here that there is true life on this board because they do have Jesus."""

MY dearest Sister, I am not sure if I know why you started this thread.

Is it because we SDAs Keep God's law(Ten Commandments)?

Or because we believe EGW writtings?

Either way, Let me tell you where I am coming from.

If the problem is because of the Commandments of God. I answer you with this.

1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.

So, as Paul said himself, Keeping the commandments of God is what really matters to me. Do you know why?

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

As far as Persecution and being slendered is concerned,

Revelation 12:17 and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

=================================================

Now if it is because of EGW, I say this:

You do not believe Her, Fine.
I have tested her writtings and to me they are in accordance with the Bible.

So, You do not believe her to be a Godly person , I do and that settles it. You can say that we are a cult, I have no problem with that for I do not believe this to be the case. EGW is a woman, just like you and me, not perfect by any means, Now we have Peter, a man filled with the Holy Spirit and yet, He was acting like a hypocrite and Paul had to tell Him off for that reason. Now because of that whatever Peter wrote has no value to me?

Doen't that make you wonder how a man filled with the Holy Spirit could be such a hypocrite?


Now As I said before, This matter about EGW is settled, You believe her to be a heretic, I don't, so that settles it and then we move on.


Please everybody, let me make this very clear, I am not preaching EGW to anybody here, I said what I said in defence of what is being said about me, and that is it.

=================================================

Quote; """"Hopefully you will be persuaded by the lovely christians here that there is true life on this board because they do have Jesus."""""


Wow, It is amazing how people such as yourself can sit down in judging bench and judge us.

It is true the fact that there are many loving people in this Site, but
Who made you judge over us to say who has and who hasn't Jesus?

And I say this with love Sis, Do not tell me that inspite of the fact that I was baptized in the precious name of Jesus, promising to live my live for Him, promising to pursue the wisdom of God the Father by studying His Holy Word and praying constantly to God to make me more like His son. I still do not have Jesus in my life?

I am not perfect by any means, but the blood of Jesus has washed all my sins away and it is out of my love for Him that I keep the Holy Laws of His father. who loved me far more than I deserve by providing a way of salvation for me through His Son Jesus Christ.

Psalm 119:10-11 With my whole heart I have sought You; Oh, let me not wander from Your commandments! 11 Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You!

My question to you Sis is this.

What makes you think that I am not saved?
what makes you think that I do not have Jesus in my heart?
How are you in a better relationship with Jesus than me?

I just have one more thing to say.

I do live by faith and also I am a doer of the Law, So I am very sure of my justification with is by faith but my faith without the works is dead.

But thank you for your concern.

L
LoveHim

dear jayyou,

my name is phil. i don't know all the history between you and glorytoGod and honestly, i don't care. you guys can get that straightened out on a pm message or something.

but as for other believers on here, we have seen the legalism that certain sda practices have caused in others lives (and some of our own). that is what the past discussions have been about...legalism vs freedom in Christ.

my hope is that you will one day analyze ellen white's prophecies and books and test them as you would a true vs false prophet (by the deuteronomy test). if you can honestly come to them and let them ALL stand next to the Word, you will have to be honest and see that she falsely prophesied many times and that makes her a false prophet.

So, You do not believe her to be a Godly person , I do and that settles it. You can say that we are a cult, I have no problem with that for I do not believe this to be the case. EGW is a woman, just like you and me, not perfect by any means, Now we have Peter, a man filled with the Holy Spirit and yet, He was acting like a hypocrite and Paul had to tell Him off for that reason. Now because of that whatever Peter wrote has no value to me?
with all due respect, you cannot compare the inspired writings of peter and the right and wrong prophesies of ellen white. did peter sin? yes. did he falsely prophesy?? no. that is the difference between a true and false prophet.

as for your salvation. i would not dare to presume whether i know if you are saved or not. God knows and i am not God. i would hope and pray that you are and if you are born again, then i will rejoice to fellowship with you in the Lord.

your brother,
phil


J
jayyou

Dear brother InTheLight,

Thank you for your question.

Please allow me to comment of it.


Quote: """For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. """


You have quoted a text from Galatians 3:10, ok let's have a look in the whole context.

Galatians 3:2-3 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

As I said brother go back a few verses and you will see a larger picture.

Paul asked, did you received the Spirit by the works of the law or by faith? and He goes on saying"" having begun in the Spirit are you being made perfect by the flesh?"" In other words, are you being made perfect by Circumcision?

Not satisfied? ok, let's go back a few more verses.

Galatians 2:3-4 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),

Again, as you said youself, Circumcision is bondage, and if you are convinced that you need to be circumcised in order to be saved than it will be a curse and you will have to be under the whole law of ceremonies to atone for your sins, therefore Jesus died in vain for you.

moving on.

Galatians 2:7-8 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),

Paul goes on telling that the problem of circumcision and uncircumcision was even afecting the apostles.


Galatians 2:12 for before certain men came from James, he would eat with the Gentiles; but when they came, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing those who were of the circumcision.

Just after Paul mentioned the problem with Peter being a hypocrite, He says this:

Galatians 2:15-16 "We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, 16 "knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified.

We can go to Romans as well and it will show you the same pattern.


Romans 3:27-31 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.

Very clear to me Brother, on verse 27 Paul talks about the law of works and the law of faith and on verse 30 He clearly identify the law of works by being circumcision.

And of verse 29, Paul asks, is He God only to the Jew? in other words is He God only of the circumcised?

And on verse 31 Paul clearly reafirms the law, Do we make void the law through faith, No we establish the Law.


Now look at something really interesting in Romans 9

Romans 9:30-32 What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone.

Please pay attention to verse 30, Paul talks about a righteousness of faith but on verse 31 He talks about the law of righteousness but they did not attained it because of lack of faith,
Now look at verse 32
Paul Gave the reason why they did not attained the law of righteousness, because they did not seek it by faith,
but by Romans 9:32 by the works of the law.

Now wait a minute, there is a law of righteousness that they did not attain because they pursued it by the works of the law?

Interesting. does it make sense to you? they did not attain the law of righteousness because they porsued it by the works of the law?


===============================================
Quote: """"But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage? Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years...
(Gal 4:9-10)"""""

Again brother let me quote you what Paul said about going back into bondage.


Galatians 5:1-4 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.

Paul could not have being clearer than this brother. If you circumcise yourself than you have to keep the whole law of ceremonies and then Christ died in vain, you have just fallen from Grace.

Again

Galatians 2:3-4 Yet not even Titus who was with me, being a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4 And this occurred because of false brethren secretly brought in (who came in by stealth to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage),

Circumcision again,

=================================================

You quoted:""""From this passage in Romans it seems clear that the basis for judgment is "the secrets of men"(v.16), that is, their heart relationship to God."""

I am sorry brother but we are not talking about judgment we are talking about justification.

Yes, we will all be judged but when Paul said about secrets of men, this is what it is all about.

Mark 4:22 "For there is nothing hidden which will not be revealed, nor has anything been kept secret but that it should come to light.

This is what Paul meant when he said secret of men.

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man's all. 14 For God will bring every work into judgment, Including every secret thing, Whether good or evil.

Now, in Regard of Romans 2:13-15, you labored too hard to explain it, when in fact it is very simple.

Now, in Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 , we have: Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man's all.

Now in Romans 2:13-15 we have the doers of the law will be justified.

Now, what I find interesting is the fact that whenever you find in the bible about the law being a curse, people will refer to it as being the whole law of God, now when scripture clearly says,
The doers of the law will be justified, you come up with this.

you quoted: """If what is hidden in a man is a hard and impenitent heart, a secret self-satisfaction, a false security based on self-righteousness, then his relationship to God is totally and absolutely wrong. Even though he knows the law (or the whole Bible!), and even though he does his best to serve God, he is and remains nothing more than a hearer of the law and not a doer of it, and will therefore be finally judged by that very law. His is a false security. If, however, God finds hidden in man a contrite heart, a broken heart and a tender conscience, then his relationship to God is what it should be. In that sense he is a doer of the law, and will be declared righteous in that day.""""

Now, you forgot to mention, verse 14,

Romans 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,

How does that go with your understanding of this scripture?

Romans 2:15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

What is this work of the law that is written in our hearts?

You forgot to mention verse 22

Romans 2:22 You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?

Please I would ask you to explain this text again including all the chapters mentioned.


and Again, How do you explaing circumcision of the heart?


Romans 2:26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?


Romans 2:27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law?

S
sermonindex


Romans 2:14 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves,

How does that go with your understanding of this scripture?

Romans 2:15 who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them)

What is this work of the law that is written in our hearts?

You forgot to mention verse 22

Romans 2:22 You who say, "Do not commit adultery," do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?


The law of God is written on our hearts. That is all the apostle Paul is saying here, not that we are to keep the law. The law only has ONE purpose:


Galatians 3:23-26
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.


The law is how we know that we have sin, that's all!:

Romans 7:5-13
5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

8But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

9For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

10And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.

11For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.

12Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.

13Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.


But because you are decieved by the teachings of Ellen White you are blinded and can't see this.

S
sermonindex


I am not perfect by any means, but the blood of Jesus has washed all my sins away and it is out of my love for Him that I keep the Holy Laws of His father. who loved me far more than I deserve by providing a way of salvation for me through His Son Jesus Christ.

Psalm 119:10-11 With my whole heart I have sought You; Oh, let me not wander from Your commandments! 11 Your word I have hidden in my heart, That I might not sin against You!

My question to you Sis is this.

What makes you think that I am not saved?
what makes you think that I do not have Jesus in my heart?
How are you in a better relationship with Jesus than me?

I just have one more thing to say.

I do live by faith and also I am a doer of the Law, So I am very sure of my justification with is by faith but my faith without the works is dead.

But thank you for your concern.




If anyone believes that they are saved by keeping the law than no, they are not saved.

Here you have faith and works:

#1.We are saved by believing in our heart (FAITH)

#2.Confessing him with our mouth.(works)


Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Nothing about keeping the law here. If you really are a christian than your works will come by your faith. But what are the works, is it by keeping the law??? No.


These are the works but they are not our works they are the work of the Holy Spirit living through willing vessles:

Galatians 5:22-23
22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,

23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.


Who does the work here is it us??? No, it's the Holy Spirit. Our part is to just walk in the spirit.


Romans 8:14
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Just like when you believe in your heart automatically you confess with your mouth. Why??? Because you believed in your heart!


J
jayyou

Dear brother phil.

Thank you for your message.

Since you made a comment I feel like I have the right to write back to you.

I have no history with glorytoglory whatsoever. She expressed her opinion about something that afected me and that is her right, and As I said the matter About EGW between me and her is settled as far I am concerned.

But then you come and made a comment and as much as I do not want to comment I feel I have to. You could have sent me a PM as well but you chose to make it public.

Now, please if you want to comment again on this pm me, for I first made a comment here because someone accused us of making division and cunfusion, and I feel that I have beingsucked
right into this big mess.

So this will be my last response in regard of EGW


and as I said before, Everybody is entitled to have their opinions but please let's respect each other.

quote:"""my hope is that you will one day analyze ellen white's prophecies and books and test them as you would a true vs false prophet """

Brother I say this with love so please do not get mad at me.

I can see this estatement in two ways,

either you think that I am not intelligent enough to test her writtings and cannot see what you see.

or You think that I choose to believe that I beleive out of my laziness or lack of interest in porsuing this.

Now, either way, I feel offended by your assuption so I will not answer it.

I will just say this, To you she is a false Prophet, to me She isn't and that settles it.


=================================================

Quote: """with all due respect, you cannot compare the inspired writings of peter and the right and wrong prophesies of ellen white. did peter sin? yes. did he falsely prophesy?? no. that is the difference between a true and false prophet."""""

Dear brother nowhere in my comment I meant what you are acusing me of.

I said what I said to say that EGW was human just like Peter, and by saying that I meant that they were sinners like me, and therefore I do not worship either as many seems to think we do with EGW, and therefore call us a cult.

=================================================

quote: """"as for your salvation. i would not dare to presume whether i know if you are saved or not. God knows and i am not God. i would hope and pray that you are and if you are born again, then i will rejoice to fellowship with you in the Lord.""""


I find amazing that people would even consider commenting on someoene's salvation.

Dear brother Salvation is something much more complicated than we think. I will show you why.

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 Fear God and keep His commandments, For this is man's all. 14 For God will bring every work into judgment, Including every secret thing, Whether good or evil.

and Jesus goes on even further.

Matthew 12:36-37 "But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned."


So brother, as you can see salvation is not simply say I am saved, it goes way beyond that.

And as far as you acusing us of being legalistic, I have a few verses to you.

Matthew 23:1-3 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: "The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3 "Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.

and in regard of God's law brother, have a look on psalms 119.

pay attention to verse

Psalm 119:126-129 It is time for You to act, O LORD, For they have regarded Your law as void. 127 Therefore I love Your commandments More than gold, yes, than fine gold! 128 Therefore all Your precepts concerning all things I consider to be right; I hate every false way. 129 Your testimonies are wonderful; Therefore my soul keeps them.

Now please we have settled the EGW. So let's move on if you want to talk about scriptures great, but I will not reply to comments about EGW anymore for I do not want to be told off unfairly for talking about her. If you want to make a comment to me, please pm and I will answer.

quote: """i would hope and pray that you are and if you are born again, then i will rejoice to fellowship with you in the Lord."""


Thank you for the offer brother but I fellowship with like minded people and that is sufficient for me.


God bless us all

M
Miccah


jayyou wrote:


Thank you for the offer brother but I fellowship with like minded people and that is sufficient for me.

Wow. Didn't Peter get rebuked from Paul about doing the same thing? Why do you fellowship here if we are not "like minded people"? Or better yet, your people? I am confused.

I fellowship with like minded people...

So did The People's Temple.

L
LoveHim

dear jayyou,

i think you misunderstood me (it's easy with computers). in regard to you and glorytoGod, i was saying that you guys should settle that. it was seeming like you guys were getting mad at each other, so i was saying that you guys should settle it.

as for EGW, i do not think your stupid or anything like that. i just believe that you fail to measure her against the Word. if you think that is mean, i'm not trying to sound mean. just as you think i'm deceived about the commandments and the mark of the beast, i think that you are being deceived about the law and EGW. is that mean?? i don't think it is. i'm sorry if you think it is. if you could hear me say this, you wouldn't think i am trying to be mean. very loving and careful.

with the salvation thing. i know you got offended about what glorytoGod said about you not being saved or something like that, so i was trying to tell you that i am not God and i couldn't know your heart. i don't know who is saved in my church let alone on a website, so i would not pass any judgement like that. i am not God. that is all i was saying.

i hope that this may clear up some things. i am putting this public so that if anyone misunderstood my first post to you, they would know that i am not trying to be mean-spirited or angry with you.

ps. i know you don't want to fellowship with me, but if we're believers, you're gonna see me for all eternity. we might need to get used to it. :-
phil

J
jayyou

Dear brother Phil,

Thank you for your reply.

I have a few things to say to you....

In Regard of EGW, I said what I had to say, and that is settled. So I will comment no more.


Quote: """ think you misunderstood me (it's easy with computers). in regard to you and glorytoGod, i was saying that you guys should settle that. it was seeming like you guys were getting mad at each other, so i was saying that you guys should settle it.""""

I say this with love brother, You were the one that misunderstood us. Glorytoglory has her opinion I have mine, I said that she was out of order by naming and condeming SDAs and that is that. I will not waste my time having silly arguments with people, and that is final.

As far as I am concerned, I made my point and that settles it. I will not keep argueing the same subject forever.

In regard of what you said about the commandments, I have one more thing to say and that will be final as well, I will not discuss this again.

Like David, I delight in God's commandments. To me they are more precious than Gold. I Serve my Lord Jesus Christ and Have Him as the Lord of my life. I could not be happier.

and I end this by quoting this text:

This is found in Ecclesiastes 12:13

I will give you different versions of the same text.

NJV Ecclesiastes 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.


NAU Ecclesiastes 12:13 The conclusion, when all has been heard, is: fear God and keep His commandments, because this applies to every person.

NLT Ecclesiastes 12:13 Here is my final conclusion: Fear God and obey his commands, for this is the duty of every person.

Dear brother, to settle the argument of commandments, I will just repeat.

This is the Duty of every person.
Now you can say that you are not deceived by it, Well that is your decision but please Do not rob us from this blessing.
=================================================

In regard of the salvation issue, I have no further comment.

=================================================

You quoted: """"ps. i know you don't want to fellowship with me, but if we're believers, you're gonna see me for all eternity. we might need to get used to it. :- """"

Now here is something that I must comment.

Since not only you and another brother, Miccah mentioned this, so I will answer both of you here.

If I remember well, This was your first post to me.
You quoted:
"""if you are born again, then i will rejoice to fellowship with you in the Lord."""

Now, Please I do no speak English as my first language so if I misunderstood you, I really apologize.

Do you note the, ""IF"" Something ""THEN"" something,it tells me that you were the one that put a condition on our fellowshiping together, Not me.

All I said was that I already fellowship with people that are likeminded. I did, by no means, exclude you from fellowshiping with me brother, All I said was that the condition you put for us to fellowship together, means absolutely nothing to me.

And As far as us fellowhiping in heaven is concerned, Nothing would give me more pleasure to one day meet all the saints face to face in heaven and being able to exchange stories of How God's amazing grace was given to us through His Holy Son.

So Yes, I would love to meet you there, for sure.

God bless us all.

J
jayyou

Dear sis Glorytoglory,

I would like to comment on something that you said.

quote:""""The law of God is written on our hearts. That is all the apostle Paul is saying here, not that we are to keep the law.""""


Laws that are written in the heart but with no reason to be there.
If you do not need to obey them, what is the point in having them there?


It seems to me sis that you should be doing more reading and less writting.

S
sermonindex


jayyou wrote:
Dear sis Glorytoglory,

I would like to comment on something that you said.

quote:""""The law of God is written on our hearts. That is all the apostle Paul is saying here, not that we are to keep the law.""""


Laws that are written in the heart but with no reason to be there.
If you do not need to obey them, what is the point in having them there?


It seems to me sis that you should be doing more reading and less writting.

The law is only for three purposes, to show us we have sin, to instruct us in righteousness and so we may know God. The law is our schoolmaster.

Galatians 3:23-25
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Romans 7:5-7
5For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

6But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

7What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet

S
Smokey


It is nearly impossible to convince a LDS (mormon) that they are not Christians either. The most amazing thing about being deceived is that you can't see it.

Blessings Greg :-?

J
jayyou

Dear brother smokey,

I am not sure if it was your intention to include us SDAs in the same category as the mormons when you said( They are not Christians either). But if you did, Then it tells me that you have just made two mistakes.

One= You and me are in not position to judge anybody.

Two= You know absolutely nothing about us, please get informed about something then make comment like this.

As far as you claiming that is impossible to convince someone, you are right, you cannot convince anybody, the convincing part comes from the HOly Spirit and not from you.

I know nothing about mormons, but you included us in a non Christian category and I do not believe that you are in a position to pass such a judgment and go as far as saying that someone is not Christian.

These are my thoughts in regard your message.

May the love of Christ and the Love of God abide in us, that way we will be empowered to show love an respect to others.

In love Jayyou....

This discussion is archived and closed to new replies. Start a new discussion to carry the subject on.
Archived
1 of 29 posts

Everything we make is available for free because of a generous community of supporters.

Donate