Rebuilding the Walls

Matthew 18:16-17

16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

[b][color=0000FF]17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: [/color][/b]

Do you think the church is one or many groups of churches? The church is one and should be treated as one body.

Matthew 18:16-17 does have a purpose.

In case anyone was wondering this has to do with a thread that was locked.

Actually I do think it should be reopened but I am not the one to do that and I have no intention of reopening it or discussing it unless it is reopened.

If we were not to discuss anytning that goes on in the church as a whole than atleast 90% of the threads on this board would have to be locked.

I have to obey the Lord and when there is something that I feel the Lord wants me to share I will share it. You can delete my account or do whatever you want to do that is between the moderators and the Lord. I am not trying to be unkind here but that's the way that it is.

Just make sure your hearing from God because were all accountable aren't we?

I would discuss this further but I have to go to work.

brentw wrote:
If your referring to Joel Osteen thread I really dont care because I am sick of seeing and hearing about him here...I think some talk about Joel more than Jesus.

No, I'm not talking about Joel Olsteen. I'm talking about being accountable for each other that we are in fellowship with. I don't know Joel Olsteen.

poet wrote:
I believe the whole purpose of confronting a brother in christ is to bring them back into right fellowship with, Christ, and the fellow brethren.
When we dont do this it causes many problems.
But the whole purpose again is to properly restore someone to fellowship.
Accountability is a good thing.
I dont know about the thread that was blocked, but pointing out someone's elses ministry can be hairy, And not very edifying, there is a fine line between warning someone about a ministry and plain gossiping...
This happened to me,, a pastor was out of line.
I pointed it out...
but not correctly...
I should have confronted the man face to face.
And not talk about it to other people.
Let people discover for themselves error, as the spirit reveals it to them...
I could have done Romans. 16:17
without trying to drag other people into the frey...that is how churches usually split apart when people who werent privy to the situation were being blessed by a ministry until the rest of the discontents kept shouting from the rooftops making sure all would see the dirty laundry, thus hurting a ministry and not being able to give the man time to repent...
That is how it go's...
God bless.

Amen, I've been guilty of this before too. Matthew 18 spells it out pretty clearly though. Where we have to be careful is where it says "if he shall neglect to hear them.." We have to just use discernment here and make sure they have time to rethink things and than you tell it to the church. Also who and how is it effecting others and to what degree. For instance if you have a cult member teaching other christians.

Matthew 18:16-17

16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church:

Christians too need to understand the difference between gossip and trying to protect other members of the body of Christ. Matthew 18 is there for a reason but like you said you have to be careful.

MrBillPro wrote:

glorytoglory wrote:
I think some talk about Joel more than Jesus.

If not Joel sure is running a very close second.:-)

poet, That was a "very" powerful statement thank you
very much for your, humble, honest,and sincere words.

This is a very powerful statement:
I should have confronted the man face to face.
And not talk about it to other people.

Amen, and if he neglects to hear him how few there are that take two or three and so on...How much damage can be avoided for both sides if things are done orderly!

Like I was saying christians need to understand the difference between gossip and protecting the flock of God.

Is it gossip to say there are Seventh Day Adventist on this site? No, that's a fact.Is it gossip to say that some Christians like Leonard Ravenhill, some like to talk about politics, some are more prone to getting out of order, some people on this board are impatient, some are patient, some are more theologically sound, some are not, some like to post articles of theologians, others perfer the word of God only, some like both? Do you get my point?

[b][color=0000FF]This is not gossip this is a fact.[/color][/b]

When another Christian needs to be disciplined in the church it's a much deeper problem than what I just listed of course! If someone on this board were teaching heresy and we all knew it was heresey do we not all say something? If the person refuses to stop do not the moderators warn them and eventually delete thier post or their account?

If this person is a close friend of theirs should it make a difference whether or not the person should be dealt with? No, that would be hypocrisy and I'm sure the moderators would agree.

These are important issues and something we need to think about.

If someone is interested in a church or another websight and I know there are major problems should I not say something when I know that those in that ministry have been told but do not care? That they have made it publically known that they do not care? Would that be gossip? No.

Should we never comment on anything and lock every thread that mentions any happenings in other churches or ministries?

Everything needs to be done decently and in order. We're not just accountable for the things that we do were accountable for the things that we don't do or prevent others from doing.

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
Hi glorytoglory...

It would have probably been better for you to speak to Greg (SermonIndex) about this issue IN PRIVATE -- before you began speaking about it in a public forum. He closed that particular thread for a reason. Have you considered his reasons? Have you even asked?

Even though you may not agree with the reasons that he gave you privately (if indeed you spoke with him), Greg is still the Administrator of this website. Whether or not you agree with this decision is about as relevent as my desire to walk into a local Church this Sunday and [u]force[/u] a discussion about something that I feel is important. It simply is not my place to discuss such an issue if the leaders don't feel that it is the time or place.

In my opinion, your Scriptural anecdote about "[i]Church discipline[/i]" just doesn't seem very relevent in regard to this issue. First of all, it doesn't appear that you have actually gone to this brother and discussed this issue at length with him (remember...there is a difference between a personal discussion in the face and a typed discussion).

Secondly, I'm not certain as to this brother's [i]true[/i] feelings about those issues. Sometimes, our words and beliefs get [i]lost in translation[/i]. I remember an instance where a brother here at SermonIndex disagreed with me and accused me of being a Seventh Day Adventist (although I consider that sect a cult -- and have never attended nor embraced their doctrine). This particular brother tried to "read between the line" with his "gift of suspicion." Even after trying to clarify my beliefs, this brother seemed quite closed. I'm not saying that this is the case, but it is simply something to consider.

Finally, I'm not sure that we would be fulfilling this particular Scriptural anecdote by discussing this brother (and his website) here. How is this going [u]to[/u] the brother with our concerns?

I understand how it can be construed as [i]gossip[/i] -- even though I don't believe this was your intent at all. Personally, I am neither part of the problem nor a willing or acceptable part of the solution. I don't know the brother very well -- and certainly not well enough to "read between the lines" concerning his doctrinal views. I've never visited the website in question. Sometimes, our views are quite different than the ones we present or type (even though they clearly seem to indicate one thing or another). I think that it would be better to simply speak privately with that brother. If you are really concerned, then go visit him and his wife with those concerns. If you aren't willing to do this, then why feel the need to air this in a public, online forum? If after this visit you still have a vital, legitimate concern, why not contact this brother's pastor (or other Scriptural authorities in his life)?

Greg, Mike, at el, are wonderful brethren -- but they are concerned with what is presented HERE (on SermonIndex). They cannot become the "[i]doctrine police[/i]" concerning the discussions at another website. Their legal authority is limited in scope to this web community, even though we might consider their wisdom important elsewhere.

:-)

By the way, you could feel free to discuss the doctrinal issues in question. This might be a little more relevent and productive for those who frequent these forums.

I really wish you had not of drug that other thread into this one. That thread was closed. [b][color=0000FF]This is a whole different thread.[/color][/b]

glorytoglory wrote:

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
Hi glorytoglory...

It would have probably been better for you to speak to Greg (SermonIndex) about this issue IN PRIVATE -- before you began speaking about it in a public forum. He closed that particular thread for a reason. Have you considered his reasons? Have you even asked?

Even though you may not agree with the reasons that he gave you privately (if indeed you spoke with him), Greg is still the Administrator of this website. Whether or not you agree with this decision is about as relevent as my desire to walk into a local Church this Sunday and [u]force[/u] a discussion about something that I feel is important. It simply is not my place to discuss such an issue if the leaders don't feel that it is the time or place.

In my opinion, your Scriptural anecdote about "[i]Church discipline[/i]" just doesn't seem very relevent in regard to this issue. First of all, it doesn't appear that you have actually gone to this brother and discussed this issue at length with him (remember...there is a difference between a personal discussion in the face and a typed discussion).

Secondly, I'm not certain as to this brother's [i]true[/i] feelings about those issues. Sometimes, our words and beliefs get [i]lost in translation[/i]. I remember an instance where a brother here at SermonIndex disagreed with me and accused me of being a Seventh Day Adventist (although I consider that sect a cult -- and have never attended nor embraced their doctrine). This particular brother tried to "read between the line" with his "gift of suspicion." Even after trying to clarify my beliefs, this brother seemed quite closed. I'm not saying that this is the case, but it is simply something to consider.

Finally, I'm not sure that we would be fulfilling this particular Scriptural anecdote by discussing this brother (and his website) here. How is this going [u]to[/u] the brother with our concerns?

I understand how it can be construed as [i]gossip[/i] -- even though I don't believe this was your intent at all. Personally, I am neither part of the problem nor a willing or acceptable part of the solution. I don't know the brother very well -- and certainly not well enough to "read between the lines" concerning his doctrinal views. I've never visited the website in question. Sometimes, our views are quite different than the ones we present or type (even though they clearly seem to indicate one thing or another). I think that it would be better to simply speak privately with that brother. If you are really concerned, then go visit him and his wife with those concerns. If you aren't willing to do this, then why feel the need to air this in a public, online forum? If after this visit you still have a vital, legitimate concern, why not contact this brother's pastor (or other Scriptural authorities in his life)?

Greg, Mike, at el, are wonderful brethren -- but they are concerned with what is presented HERE (on SermonIndex). They cannot become the "[i]doctrine police[/i]" concerning the discussions at another website. Their legal authority is limited in scope to this web community, even though we might consider their wisdom important elsewhere.

:-)

By the way, you could feel free to discuss the doctrinal issues in question. This might be a little more relevent and productive for those who frequent these forums.

I really wish you had not of drug that other thread into this one. That thread was closed. [b][color=0000FF]This is a whole different thread.[/color][/b]

Aside from the other thread that I do not want to talk about because it has been locked, if we were to do everything that you described here as far as discussing anything that is going on in the body of Christ we would not be able to discuss anything. We would have to lock every thread just about on this board.

This is why I started this thread because we need to understand what is the difference between something that needs to be addressed and something that does not. [b]This is not a board issue this is a church issue. I think this is where things are getting misconstrued.[/b]

The only thing I do want to say about the other thread is that things were totally misinterpreted which was partly my fault. I usually word things better but I was tired after working all day. I raised an issue I felt the Lord wanted me to raise and I did.[b]I said nothing wrong and that I am assured of.[/b] But that thread is locked so I have nothing else to say about that.

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
Finally, I'm not sure that we would be fulfilling this particular Scriptural anecdote by discussing this brother (and his website) here. How is this going [u]to[/u] the brother with our concerns?

I understand how it can be construed as [i]gossip[/i] -- even though I don't believe this was your intent at all. Personally, I am neither part of the problem nor a willing or acceptable part of the solution. I don't know the brother very well -- and certainly not well enough to "read between the lines" concerning his doctrinal views. I've never visited the website in question. Sometimes, our views are quite different than the ones we present or type (even though they clearly seem to indicate one thing or another). I think that it would be better to simply speak privately with that brother. If you are really concerned, then go visit him and his wife with those concerns. If you aren't willing to do this, then why feel the need to air this in a public, online forum? If after this visit you still have a vital, legitimate concern, why not contact this brother's pastor (or other Scriptural authorities in his life)?

So do you think we should not talk about Joel Olsteen or anyone else for that matter? What if we have gone to our brother in private and have than taken 2 or 3 with us should we still not take it to the church than?? What is your idea of handling matters in the church according to Matthew 18:16-17? Do you think it's a big mistake on our part to talk about Joel Olsteen's beliefs, ministry ect...? Seriously I really would like to hear how we are suppose to attend to matters that get out of hand in the church.

Matthew 18:16-17

16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church:

Do you think there should be special treatment if they are your friends and if it is someone you do not know personally than it doesn't matter? Wouldn't that be hypocrisy? Seriously???

MrBillPro wrote:

glorytoglory wrote:
17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church:

The way I personally interrupt that scripture is tell it unto the church, I think this means the actual Church the Pastor ministers at, not the whole world church, but that is just my opinion. ;-)

If that is the case than we should not be talking about any man's ministry, beliefs ect.. and these other threads would all have to be locked such as Joel Olsteen ect...We would have to personally confront every prosperity preacher on the face of the earth before we could talk about thier ministry to anyone on this board.

Do you think than we should not be talking about another man's faulty beliefs until we have talked to them first, taken two or three with us and than the church.

You said take it to the pastor but maybe the pastor doesn't agree with you. That is not what Jesus said to do. He said take two or three with you not the pastor although you could take the pastor if he was in agreement.

I really think this is what the church in America is lacking and that is discipline. The Lord disciplines those whom He loves. The bible says if you do not discipline your own child than you hate them. When it is done in love it's a good thing. I would have no problem with someone correcting me in love, just make sure your right. When it is done in love and orderly than this is pleasing to God. Sure it's humbling but would you rather leave them in pride and ignorance? If they are defiant anyway would you rather leave them in their defiance and pretend they have done nothing because you don't want to be bothered or lose their friendship? Have we gained anything by doing this?

Than we have to think about which sins do you confront, obviously heresy would be one of them for instance.

Because it is such a sensitive thing to have to deal with I understand that christians do not want to go there but we are as a church facing these things everyday.

I don't enjoy it, it's not something meant to enjoy. How do you move forward though if you are facing these things?

MrBillPro wrote:

Trust me if it were "my' calling to do this God would give me an abundance of knowledge of these particular scriptures and he would tell me through my spirit to go out among the Churches and tell these men or women, thats the best explanation I have for you, it's pretty cut and dry.

Thanks for your opinion. I feel the same way. I just think this IS where the church is at as far as having to choose between confronting these issues that arise in the church or choosing to ignore them all depending on if God has spoken to us about them. Maybe that is my opinion but I feel God has spoken to me. The church in America is not facing persecution really, poverty or famine we are facing a backslidden, prosperity preaching, Laodecian church. How are we as American christians going to handle these issues when we do face them?

Even if you choose not to do anything you have still made a choice.

I often wonder how many christians see the church as one. How many see that if a brother is suffering either in Africa or maybe NYC we all are suffering? Not recognizing your own body when it is crying out to us is the reason it is sick.

[b][color=000000]Isn't a healthy body one that functions properly? If it has a disease it immediately attacks the disease removing it from the body? If we don't recognize we have a body than we have a serious problem on our hands.[/color][/b]

MrBillPro wrote:

glorytoglory wrote:
Even if you choose not to do anything you have still made a choice.

And your exactly right we do have to make a choice to do as "God" tells us not man, God uses us all differently, if he used us all for the same thing there sure would be a lot of unfinished business to take care of and he would never be able to come back.
I already know what my calling is to Minister to folks through my business and I have done this for over 20 years and best thing is, I don't have to worry about getting fired. :-)

What if I worked for you and you knew I was a professing christian and we went to the same church but you found out I was stealing from you? Even on this message board we run into those we disagree with. I'm sure you could not say you have never had to correct anyone. Don't we have any responsability at all to each other as members of the body of Christ.

Aside from that, if you allowed employees to curse at your business and you posted it on your door and made it publically clear you don't mind would it be gossip if I told others you don't mind? What if you had a sign on your door saying heretics welcome, blasphemers welcome. Would you say it is gossip if I told others about your sign?

MrBillPro wrote:

glorytoglory wrote:
What if I worked for you and you knew I was a professing Christian and we went to the same church but you found out I was stealing from you? Even on this message board we run into those we disagree with. I'm sure you could not say you have never had to correct anyone. Don't we have any responsibility at all to each other as members of the body of Christ.

Aside from that, if you allowed employees to curse at your business and you posted it on your door and made it publically clear you don't mind would it be gossip if I told others you don't mind? What if you had a sign on your door saying heretics welcome, blasphemers welcome. Would you say it is gossip if I told others about your sign?

I will have to have some time to answer that, because that is about the most far fetched hypothetical example I have ever seen, I will try some day to get back to this. :-P
I will try to see how that example is supposed to make me do something I am not called to do and that's go to these Ministers and correct them, I am not even that scripturally knowledgeable to even confront one in the first place, that would be like me defending myself in a court room. :-)

That's not far fetched. Haven't you ever atleast disagreed with another brother or sister to the point you felt like you should say something? Surely you have.

It happens on sermon index all the time.

MrBillPro wrote:

glorytoglory wrote:
That's not far fetched. Haven't you ever at least disagreed with another brother or sister to the point you felt like you should say something? Surely you have.

It happens on sermon index all the time.

Yes but I have yet to come to their home and confront them as we would a Pastor "are suppose to a Pastor" and also most here this is not their profession, I guess I really don't understand you but thats ok I have been guilty of not understanding folks before, and sure I will into the future because my understanding is limited unlike Gods.

You don't have to be a pastor to confront someone. Jesus did not say this to just pastors but all christians. This is the way things should be handled in the church. You can't ignore the body that is why the body is suffering and especially here in America. Untimately if all else fails God intervenes and I have witnessed this many times.

You don't have to be a pastor to confront someone. Jesus did not say this to just pastors but all christians. This is the way things should be handled in the church. You can't ignore the body that is why the body is suffering and especially here in America. Untimately if all else fails God intervenes and I have witnessed this many times.

I recommend this series for young people, for I feel young people are the quickest to speak and feel they can rebuke everyone else, PLEASE LISTEN TO PART 4!!:

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 1[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=7c70561bf5e03b95aa99

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 2[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=2e2a57ace4d9a76fd9ac

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 3[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=92d2124a67ea0f4cb5f8

MUST LISTEN TO THIS PART: [b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 4[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=56fc8a4d2a519803d51b

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 5[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=eee1462c82c6964087ff

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 6[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=650923ea331c15af3b16

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 7[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=f5039a8cadc6acbb4b2c

sermonindex wrote:

You don't have to be a pastor to confront someone. Jesus did not say this to just pastors but all christians. This is the way things should be handled in the church. You can't ignore the body that is why the body is suffering and especially here in America. Untimately if all else fails God intervenes and I have witnessed this many times.

Most times I find when we come to others to speak some correction we usually have a "beam" in our own eyes. I have found the most effective way to be salt and light for the world and more importantly the church is to walk according to the rule of Christ. If we walk in holiness it will speak volumes to others. I have found persecution when I walked in a way that was without reproach but spoke not one word. This unsettled many more then if I spoke many words.

I recommend this series for young people, for I feel young people are the quickest to speak and feel they can rebuke everyone else, PLEASE LISTEN TO PART 4!!:

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 1[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=7c70561bf5e03b95aa99

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 2[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=2e2a57ace4d9a76fd9ac

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 3[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=92d2124a67ea0f4cb5f8

MUST LISTEN TO THIS PART: [b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 4[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=56fc8a4d2a519803d51b

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 5[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=eee1462c82c6964087ff

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 6[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=650923ea331c15af3b16

[b]Young People Who Stand For God by Zac Poonen - Part 7[/b]
http://www.preachingtruth.com/view_video.php?viewkey=f5039a8cadc6acbb4b2c

There is a time and a place for everything and a season ect... It's not all one sided I agree either way or else why would there be Matthew 18:16-17?

Some people too who you approach that have either hurt you or the church in general sometimes you will find they do not care. It's sad but true and you have to know that is a chance you are going to take.

How you handle it afterwards is a different matter all depending on the circumstances.

Let God be true and every man a liar...

MrBillPro wrote:

sermonindex wrote:
Most times I find when we come to others to speak some correction we usually have a "beam" in our own eyes.

And your exactly right, trust me I always
have a beam in mine and maybe thats why I
don't feel comfortable about me correcting
others, but one day when I feel beamless I
might do so. :-P

Atleast your honest! :-) The beam I believe is speaking of your conscience. If you have a clear conscience you can speak to others. We can't judge ourselves and even say we are blameless only God knows if we are blameless.

My conscience bothers me if I am offended and say nothing. You just have to make sure your motives are pure.

I'm doing my best to follow this thread. Still not quite sure what it's about, and whether there is a valid point about the whole body of Christ, which most actual elders and pastors would rather not have to deal with. It is so much easier if they can contain any matters of discipline within their own four walls (so to speak), neither being answerable to their own flock (if they so desire), or to concerns expressed by those outside the immediate catchment from which their congregation is drawn.

I am interested for a couple of reasons, both as one who was in a 'church' being led by a false shepherd, and as one who was not followed-up by elders who believed I was out of order for leaving. Both scenarios give cause for concern, the first more than the second, because a whole bunch of people were being misled.

On the matter of being 'beamless', glorytoglory said

We can't judge ourselves

28 But let a man examine himself, and so let him eat of [that] bread, and drink of [i]that[/i] cup.
29 For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation to himself, not discerning the Lord's body.
30 For this cause many [i]are[/i] weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
31 [u]For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged[/u].
32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Young puts v 32 this way: 'and being judged by the Lord, we are chastened, that with the world we may not be condemned;'

I believe also, that having pure motives is not merely subjective, but our lives should show we do not have a self-seeking agenda.

This verse comes to mind also, as part of the proof of our 'authority':

Ephesians 5
18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
19 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;
20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;
21 [u]Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God[/u].

This last verse plays straight into the whole matter of church discipline, in that one would assume a brother or sister would want to be offered correction, for the sake of their own soul, rather than be left to take responsibility for leading a whole group astray.

In fact, this raises the matters touched upon in the letters to the churches in Revelation 2

to Pergamos...
14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, [u]who taught[/u] Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

to Thyatira...
20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, [u]to teach[/u] and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.

How does a person get into leadership, who does not submit to God, who is not interested in His word, or who doesn't care for the flock [i]willingly?[/i]

The reason I started this thread is I'm trying to understand how we as Christians are to respond in this country to a backslidden, prosperity preaching, Laodecian church that we face everyday. I'm all for resting in Lord of course but their are times when we face things head on in our church like you have dorcas and we are faced with having to respond.My question is how do we go about this?

I believe we each have a responsability to the church we attend. I also believe even though we may think we are not going to be taken well by confronting others when needed we still have an obligation to do so.

You may be surrounded by unbelievers in your church but you are still a member of the body of Christ.

Revival begins with each individual member. God doesn't usually move unless we move first. If we see a need we should respond to it as God calls us to. Since the church is not where it should be we are confronted with many unresolved problems and issues. There is no getting around these things. We aren't called to find acceptance from others but to be faithful to God and the calling on our lives.

This is where I believe we are at as a church in America:

Nehemiah 2:17-18

17Then said I unto them, Ye see the distress that we are in, how Jerusalem lieth waste, and the gates thereof are burned with fire: come, and let us build up the wall of Jerusalem, that we be no more a reproach.

18Then I told them of the hand of my God which was good upon me; as also the king's words that he had spoken unto me. And they said, Let us rise up and build. So they strengthened their hands for this good work.