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Eze 39: a question

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Ezekiel 39
21 [b]And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.[/b]
22 So the house of Israel shall know that I [i]am[/i] the LORD [u]their[/u] God from that day and forward.
23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because...


I have a simple question, of anyone whose scholarship is up to it.

In v 22 I have underlined 'their' because in the context of v 21 it looks (to my spirit) as if 'their' is a reference to 'the heathen' and that Israel is seeing that Israel's God has become the heathen's God.

Look at it without the verse divisions:

And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them. So the house of Israel shall know that I [i]am[/i] the LORD their God from that day and forward. And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because...


Does anyone else see what I mean? (I hope so...)

(The reason I'm asking, is that v 22 has been given in a Bible study someone sent me, to support [u]Israel's[/u] return to the Lord.)

C
Christinyou

Just a thought: Who is God's Glory? Is it not Jesus Christ? Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Without this revelation now, how could they even understand the Glory of God. "which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Ezekiel 39:21 And I will set (forth) my glory among the heathen (Gentiles), and all the heathen shall see

P
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dorcas,
dorcas wrote:

Ezekiel 39
all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

I got a tape from a rabbi that said any time you see "and the Lord bare his right arm" that it is judgement against the gentiles.
I never did look into it.
Have you ever heard of this?


David

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Hi David,

I got a tape from a rabbi that said any time you see "and the Lord bare his right arm" that it is judgement against the gentiles.
I never did look into it.
Have you ever heard of this?
No. And it doesn't read that way every time either. Sounds like a bit of undue re-interpretation of the word of God, as some rabbis have become used to doing.

All I am asking in my leading post, is for someone with Hebrew to agree or disagree with an explanation, that the 'their' which I underlined in v 22 refers to the Gentiles being able to claim[u] as their God also[/u], the God of Israel.

This is [i]not[/i] to say the God of Israel is no longer the God of Israel. It is to say the God of Israel has taken Gentiles under His lordship also - as well as Israel.

I can't see any other way to read it.

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Dorcas, for a Gentile to worship the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, in the OT, one need to become a Proselyte.

We see this happened to Ruth, who left the gods of her for-fathers behind to worship the God of Naomi....then becoming the Grandmother of David, and in the genelogy of the house of David.

There are specific warnings in the OT, prophecy still to be fulfilled concerning Jews as well as Gentile world power. Read Isaiah 14. A Very clear distinction.




I got a tape from a rabbi that said any time you see "and the Lord bare his right arm" that it is judgement against the gentiles.
I never did look into it.
Have you ever heard of this?


No. And it doesn't read that way every time either. Sounds like a bit of undue re-interpretation of the word of God, as some rabbis have become used to doing.

Can you specifically quote scripture that does not read that way every time?

Even though many Jews are not saved, that doesn't mean they don't know their Bibles and we think we know more then they do?????

Their eyes may have been blinded concerning salvation until the fulness of the Gentiles come in, but that doesn't mean they are not well versed in the OT scriptures.

Where it says, "The Day of the Lord" always without exception mean the wrath and vengence of God.

When it says, "and the Lord bare his right arm" certainly does mean judgement against Gentiles.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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Isaiah 52:9-11

9Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the LORD hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.

10The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

11Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst of her; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the LORD.

Yes, this will happen, read Isaiah 14. God will exalt Israel and His promises before all arrogant Gentile world power who thinks to rob Israel of those promises. Yes, all the world will see the salvation of Israel, Romans 11...where a Deliver will come out of SION and all Israel will be saved.

It's still in God's plan, and nothing has changed that from the time Paul wrote it. Paul wrote that in the Church age, the time we are in now.

Praise God!!

Love in Christ
Katy-Did ;-)

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Hi Katy,

Thanks for joining in.

I really was looking for someone with Hebrew, because I don't think there's any dispute that the Jews knew the God of Israel as their God.

So....

Ezekiel 39:21, 22
And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them. So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.


This is a prophecy about the day when 'the heathen' will also be known as servants of the 'God of Israel' 'from that day and forward'.

To me, the judgement being spoken of here, is that against sin, on the cross, in Jesus Christ.

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Dorcas, This is a judgement against those who believe God is finished with Israel, and a warning to those who think the Church replaced those promises. This is judgement against Mystery Babylon..Gentile world power, exalting itself above God, and sits with satan above the stars of God ( Israel) This is what Isaian 14 is about, and what the need for a DELIVER is in Romans 11. He comes to deliver Israel from this Gentile arrogant world power. Otherwise the scriptures would read redeemer.

Just as Israel was delivered out of the mouth of Pharoah, so too will they be delivered out of the mouth of antichrist....the head of this Gentile world power

Read Revelation...and they sang the song of Moses......this is certainly referring to DELIVER.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

PS: King Neb was a Gentile Babylonian King, who ended up eating grass like a dog on four legs.
Mild compared to what is going to happen in the last days.

PS: Added

Dorcas, you seem to believe everyone in the end will be saved??? This is not so. Yes, there will be some Gentiles saved, but this is the time now for Jews. Gentiles have their time NOW to be saved, and when that fulness is up, then it is Israel's time.

You see, when Jesus takes the throne of David, satan KNOWS his time is UP, being bound for 1000 years and then eternally in the lake of fire.


He wants to take as many with him as possible.

So be careful who's side your are playing on.

Katy

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Dorcas, it is dangerous to take a verse and build a theory leaving out those verses before and after.

I have posted here the whole chapter of Ezekiel 39 and especially bolded and underlined those verses AFTER yours to give a clear and concise understanding of these scriptures.

Again, this is about Israel...not gentiles.

Not everything is in the Bible is about you, nor is this about the Cross in the way you want it to read.

You will also see in Revelation referring to God and Magog...Gentile world power who comes against Israel. Many believe this to be before the 1000 year reign, so Gog and Magog no matter how you slice it is evil Gentile world power coming against Israel. Some too believe this is China and Russia.


Ezekiel 39
1Therefore, thou son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal:

2And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel:

3And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand.

4Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured.

5Thou shalt fall upon the open field: for I have spoken it, saith the Lord GOD.

6And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles: and they shall know that I am the LORD.

7So will I make my holy name known in the midst of my people Israel; and I will not let them pollute my holy name any more: and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel.

8Behold, it is come, and it is done, saith the Lord GOD; this is the day whereof I have spoken.

9And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:

10So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.

11And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.

12And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land.

13Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD.

14And they shall sever out men of continual employment, passing through the land to bury with the passengers those that remain upon the face of the earth, to cleanse it: after the end of seven months shall they search.

15And the passengers that pass through the land, when any seeth a man's bone, then shall he set up a sign by it, till the buriers have buried it in the valley of Hamongog.

16And also the name of the city shall be Hamonah. Thus shall they cleanse the land.

17And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

18Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

19And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

20Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD.

21And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.

22So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.

[u][b] 23And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.

24According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.

25Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;

26After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.

27When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;

28Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.

29Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.[/b][/u]

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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It doesn't take a profound knowledge of Hebrew to understand the passage. The only clue in form of the Hebrew words themselves would probably be, for example, if "heathen" was neuter and "house of Israel" was masculine. In that case the form of "their" or "them" would be masculine or feminine and probably confirm which group of people was meant.

I have checked and all the words - "heathen", "house of" and "Israel" - are all masculine forms. "Heathen" = "goyim" is derived from a feminine form, but is itself masculine. So the word form gives us no clue.

However, the immediate context does:

[color=990000]21 And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.[/color]
Here "them" has to refer to "heathen"

[color=990000]22 So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward.[/color]
Here, "their" has to refer to "house of Israel". "They" (both Israel and the nations) shall know that God is Israel's God.

[color=990000]23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity:
because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
24 According to their uncleanness and according to their transgressions have I done unto them, and hid my face from them.[/color]
Here, "their" "they" and "them" must mean Israel

[color=990000]25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies’ lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;[/color]
Again, "they" and "them" refers to Israel.

[color=990000]28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.[/color]
Again referring to Israel, except for a possibility that in v28 ..."Then shall they know ..." might mean the nations [i]as well as[/i] Israel shall know...

The whole context of the chapter is that a great coalition of Israel's enemies shall come against her, and shall be destroyed by God's power.

Taking the passage as a whole, [b]both Israel and the nations shall see the glory and power of God[/b]. And [b]both Israel and the nations[/b] shall see that Israel is His, in a way that other nations are not.

To HIS glory, not Israel's

In other words, world events shall make it obvious to both Israel and the nations that the God of Israel is the true God, because:

1. He punished Israel for her unfaithfulness to Him by driving the people into exile
2. He afterwards restored them to their land
3. When this huge heathen coalition attacks Israel, God will defend her, and destroy the nations that come against her.

I say "will" because historically those particular nations or people groups have never yet banded together against Israel, so that particular prophecy is not yet fulfilled.

This is simple and obvious. It only becomes obscure if the plain meaning of Scripture is twisted to mean something else.

in Him

Jeannette

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Was it a coincindence that I'm just reading a book about this passage in Ezekiel, as it relates to world affairs?

It's called "Epicentre" by Joel Rosenberg, a man who worked both for the White House and the Israeli government at different times, and has his finger on the pulse of world affairs. He wrote a novel about an Islamic suicide plane attack on the USA, [i]BEFORE[/i] 9/11. Other scenarios in his novels have also been reflected in world events that happened after they were written. Not becasue of any prophetic insight but from study of scripture and understanding of how world governments work.

Here's his site if anyone wants to look into it
http://www.joelrosenberg.com/

Last night I came to the part which discusses which nations are probably to be involved:

These include what are now called:

Russia
Iran
Most or all of the former Soviet Union's predominantly Muslim states
Libya
Algeria
Ethiopia
Northern Sudan
Probably Turkey
Plus other nations not definitely identified in Ezekiel of whose present identity isn't certain - possibly even Germany.

apparently, in recent years, [i]for the first time in history[/i] a league between Russia and Iran (Persia) is now highly likely. This has to happen for the Gog-Magog war to take place as the Bible says.

Makes you think!

in Him

Jeannette

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Katy-did wrote:
Even though many Jews are not saved, that doesn't mean they don't know their Bibles and we think we know more then they do?????

Their eyes may have been blinded concerning salvation until the fulness of the Gentiles come in, but that doesn't mean they are not well versed in the OT scriptures.

It is amazing how people brought up in the Word can have great insight, whether they are saved or not. You will know, Linn, that Mr North knew his Bible well and was able to pray, preach, do anything in the church - [i]before[/i] he was actually born again!

And I read the famous essay, "I and Thou" by Martin Buber, the Jewish philosopher, and was [i]amazed[/i] at his insight into aspects of Truth, though he was in no way a Christian.

I've also read commentary by modern Jewish scholars that show great understanding of the Scriptures and of the things of God, even though they don't know God!

As Paul says in Romans 9:

[color=990000]3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen.
[/color]

Of course he goes on to say that not all who are of Israel are the true, spiritual, Israel; yet there is still that precious legacy passed down through Abraham - "in the genes" as it were. Even though that won't gain individual salvation or acceptance with God. They are the ones [color=990000]"to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and [b]the giving of the law[/b], and the service of God, and the promises;
5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came"[/color]

So one would expect, from Jews who study the Scriptures, a deeper understanding of the Word, (or at least an unique [i]contribution[/i] to its understanding), than those of us from a Gentile background, even though it may never become saving faith in an individual.

...Maybe a more "holistic" understanding, because of having the same distinctive patterns of thought and history as the writers of Scripture.

Where it says, "The Day of the Lord" always without exception mean the wrath and vengence of God.
I'm sure that is correct, though have never yet managed to look up all the references and make a thorough study.

When it says, "and the Lord bare his right arm" certainly does mean judgement against Gentiles.
Katy, do you have those references? I tried to look it up but it doesn't seem to be put quite that way in the KJV which is the main study source (because good ocncordances like Strongs are based on that version).

(Maybe pm them if you like, unless it would be helpful to this discussion)


Blessings

jeannette

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Katy-did wrote:
Dorcas, This is a judgement against those who believe God is finished with Israel, and a warning to those who think the Church replaced those promises...

...So be careful who's side your are playing on...

That is my concern too, Linn. Yet you will not hear.

The way you scorn others' interpretation of Scripture, especially if they are Jewish, showed when you said:

Sounds like a bit of undue re-interpretation of the word of God, as some rabbis have become used to doing.
Even if you were right in that instance, the manner of that jibe shows clearly where you are coming from in this matter.

It's ironic that [i]your[/i] interpretation of the verse in Ezekiel is also a re-interpretation, that the sense of the passage doesn't support in the least.

I will try to find an expert Hebrew scholar if you like, but am 100% sure he will say the same.

Love in Him (yes this [i]is[/i] said in love)

Jeannette

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Jeannette, I could put many scriptures here to show this thuth.

God's Right arm is that which defends Israel against her enemies, and at the same time brings judgement against the enemies. there are only two classifications on earth...Jew and Gentile.

Here's one I like:

But it's fun too to look up and study. This verse is very obvious, however, others, you will have to read the situation going on, just like having to read all of Ezekiel 39 to understand what is being said.

It's Good to read Ezeliel 38 first to go with 39.


Isaiah 63:12
who sent his glorious arm of power to be at Moses' right hand, who divided the waters before them, to gain for himself everlasting renown,


This is what Jewish Scholars are so wonderful at....understanding deeper meanings. Understanding Types and Shaddows. Understanding what numbers mean....(not numerology, as some may think....but the number 7 is very significant, 12 is very significant, etc. etc.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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Just thought I'd add this too. It's so great.

God is known as the " Strength of Israel"

And the Joy of the Lord is OUR Srength.

ADDED: Joy is not a feeling, Joy is the Person of Jesus Christ IN YOU!

You can't have the Joy OF the Lord, unless you are one OF the Lords.

Compare these scriptures and I hope you are blessed by these.


God can overcome his enemies without our hands, but we cannot so much as defend ourselves without his arm.

One of God's names is, "the Strength of Israel", I Sam. 15:29 And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.

I love the Psalms, and the Lord taught me so many things from the psalms.

For one David said


Psalm 18:33-35
33He maketh my feet like hinds' feet, and setteth me upon my high places.

34He teacheth my hands to war, so that a bow of steel is broken by mine arms.

35Thou hast also given me the shield of thy salvation: and thy right hand hath holden me up, and thy gentleness hath made me great.

Psalm 144
1Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight:

2My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust; who subdueth my people under me.

3LORD, what is man, that thou takest knowledge of him! or the son of man, that thou makest account of him!

Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think
any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God, 2nd Corinthians 3:5

Abide in Me and I in you, as ye can do NOTHING of Yourselves.....John 15:5

But here it is,

Put on the Whole Armour of God, that ye may be able to stand.

Spiritual warefare...and we all have it, always have and always will.

The ARM of the Lord is your strength. Yet, there are so many ways God has made this truth real, not only to David in the physical realm , but to His Saints in the spiritual realm.

This is genuine true Faith in God, and see how it parallels Ephesians ....of putting on the whole armour of God..We are Putting on Christ!

Psalm 91
1He that dwelleth in the secret place of the most High shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.

2I will say of the LORD, He is my refuge and my fortress: my God; in him will I trust.

3Surely he shall deliver thee from the snare of the fowler, and from the noisome pestilence.

4He shall cover thee with his feathers, and under his wings shalt thou trust: his truth shall be thy shield and buckler.

5Thou shalt not be afraid for the terror by night; nor for the arrow that flieth by day;

6Nor for the pestilence that walketh in darkness; nor for the destruction that wasteth at noonday.

7A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee.

8Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked.

9Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;

10There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling.

11For he shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee in all thy ways.

12They shall bear thee up in their hands, lest thou dash thy foot against a stone.

13Thou shalt tread upon the lion and adder: the young lion and the dragon shalt thou trample under feet.

14Because he hath set his love upon me, therefore will I deliver him: I will set him on high, because he hath known my name.

15He shall call upon me, and I will answer him: I will be with him in trouble; I will deliver him, and honour him.

16With long life will I satisfy him, and shew him my salvation.


Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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Thanks Katy. I thought you meant the [i]exact[/i] wording, i.e. "and the Lord bare his right arm", so tried to look up "his right arm" or "right arm" and couldn't find it!

Of course the message of the Lord's "arm" in judgment [i]is[/i] found, though I haven't personally done a study as you have, to show that it is always referring to the Gentile nations...

Individual verses have to be kept in context, not taken out and looked at on their own, as you also pointed out.

..................................................................................................

Ezekiel 38-9 has important implications re events in the present-day Middle East, so its correct interpretation is important.

I've nearly finished that book. The only fault I find personally is that, in the chapter on the rebuilding of the Temple, he only speaks of the "temple made with hands", (whose building of course has to be completed too, as is foretold) But he doesn't mention the "Temple which is His Body".

Hopefully he [i]is[/i] aware of the spiritual factor as well, but it isn't the topic of the book, so maybe that's why it isn't spoken of.

Scripture makes it clear that the spiritual and the natural are intertwined in world events. Natural events, such as rise and fall of empires, alliances and wars between nations etc, merely reflect the spiritual realities behind them. And spiritual powers [i]drive[/i] natural events too, according to God's plan. So that, in Daniel and Revelation for example, the "four beasts" represent both spiritual forces and actual world empires, and the "Prince of Persia" in Daniel represents both the human monarch and the demonic principality behind his throne.

Does that make sense? Maybe not expressed very clearly, but it's how I'm beginning to understand the relationship between spiritual and natural in world affairs.


in Him


Jeannette

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Scripture makes it clear that the spiritual and the natural are intertwined in world events. Natural events, such as rise and fall of empires, alliances and wars between nations etc, merely reflect the spiritual realities behind them.
That's why its so difficult sometimes to know exactly what God [i]means[/i] by things foretold in Scripture. Especially as there are multiple layers of Truth, and often multiple fulfillments.

To think that events foretold in the Bible (such as the rebuilding of the pyhysical Temple) are merely natural and literal is error.

It is also error to see things as purely spiritual and discount the natural. The first springs from materialism and the second from Gnosticism.

The Bible holds both aspects together in balance.

Soeone mentioned recently that the Lord often veils His meaning so that events are only seen for what they are with the eyes of faith.

Only two people, in the whole of Israel, were sufficiently in the Spirit recognise Jesus as the Messiah when He was born. Even though it was exactly as the Scriptures foretold. Later, even the disciples were very slow to begin to understand who He was.

Of course, His second coming will be different - everyone will know - but how many will be first taken in by the Antichrist?

A disturbing thought...

Blessings

Jeannette

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This does seem to be the discussion among many who wonder and many who scoff.

It's no laughing matter though, that there is an Israel TODAY that many over history had scoffed at too...yet here we are, seeing it with our own eyes.

Are these the times and seasons we are to discern as well. I say Yes.

The Book of Daniel seem to be a key to most of these end time Prophecies for Israel called..."The Time of Jacob's Trouble".

Excellent students of Prophecy KNOW there are future events that have to take place.

God has already decalared in His Word ( Romans 11) He has a plan for National Israel who was set aside for this moment we call the Church Age, made up of both Jew and Gentile, called ONE NEW MAN, breaking down the walls between us, and our life is the very LIFE of Christ in you.

When Paul writes in Thessealonians "He(anti-christ) Sits in the TEMPLE as though he were God" is he talking about a Literal Temple? Notice the words Paul uses and comforts the Saints who were suffering persecution and they thought it was about ((THIS TIME...The Day of the Lord)) and Paul said, " The Day of the Lord" has not come. They confused the persecution of the Church and their sufferings with the end time last days Day of God's Wrath and Judgement.

As a Christian, whatever may come in our future, remember when Jesus Christ Himself takes teh throne of David, WE will be with Him , already Glorified together with Christ. So the way I look at it, if i'm still here and someone sits on that throne in my lifetime, and I'm still in this flesh body......It's Not Jesus Christ.....it's anti-christ.

In the OT, there are TWO Comings of Messiah, one as KING and one as Redeemer. For Jesus Christ to take the Throne as King, He first needed to be redeemer, die and rise again, in a Physical Gloridied Body to be KING...and that will yet be.
(Redeemer didn't cancel out King...it made it possible).

Here are words of wisdom ( not mine) to consider.


((((("Impossible." "It's never going to happen." "It will be the end of the Middle East as we know it." These are comments from people whenever someone mentions that Israel will build the Third Temple on the temple mount in Jerusalem. I have to say that I would totally agree with them due to the political climate in the world. However, there's this little book called the Bible that explains not only that the Jews will build a Third Temple, but gives instruction to the two witnesses as to where exactly to build it on the temple mount. Revelation 11:2-3 states, "But leave out of your measuring the court outside the sanctuary of God; omit that, for it is given over to the Gentiles (the nations), and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months (three and one-half years). And I will grant the power of prophecy to My two witnesses for 1,260 (42 months; three and one-half years), dressed in sackcloth." Although there is some dispute as to whom the two witnesses are-Enoch? Elijah? Moses?-there is not a dispute that the third Jewish Temple will be built, the only question is when.

The first Jewish temple (Solomon's temple) was built circa 950 BC and was destroyed in 586 BC by the Babylonians. The second Jewish temple (Herod's Temple) was built around 20 BC and was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD. Since then the only remnant of Herod's Temple has been the Western Wall. Islamic buildings, the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa mosque, now occupy the area on the mount where the temples previously stood. Decades after the destruction of Herod's Temple, the Muslims built the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa in 688 AD and 705 AD, respectively. The Dome of the Rock and Al Aqsa are two of the most important symbols in Islam. However, ever since Israel reclaimed the city of Jerusalem during the 1967 Six-Day war, there has been ongoing discussion among the Jews regarding rebuilding the third temple where the two Islamic buildings currently stand.

Gershon Saloman, an Israeli soldier during the Six-Day War, has never forgotten the words his commander exclaimed after victory, "The Temple Mount is again our hands." That same day, Saloman heard God's call for him to rebuild the Third Temple. Since 1967, Saloman has formed the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement; their objectives are:

Liberating the Temple Mount from the Arab occupation of the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa mosque.
Consecrating the Temple Mount to the Name of God.
Rebuilding the Third Temple in accordance with the words of all the Hebrew prophets.

As of May 25, 2006, the Faithful Movement has dedicated two 6 ½ ton marble cornerstones for the Third Temple. The stones for the future temple are already prepared.

Even more amazing, on October 10, 2006, MK (Member of Knesset) Uri Ariel drew up plans to construct a synagogue on the temple mount. How unbelievable! Ariel has announced his intentions publicly to the world. Not to mention, British historian, Sean Kingsley claims in his book, God's Gold, that the Temple treasures stolen by the Romans in 70 AD are buried in the Judean wilderness waiting to be discovered.

Many people believe that after Gog-Magog war, with Israel's miraculous defeat of the Persian and Russian army; the Jews will build the Third Temple on the temple mount in Jerusalem to the God of Israel who astoundingly saved them from their enemies. The Temple sacrifices of the past will once again be instituted.

Seemingly unbelievable events are rapidly taking place in the world that many thought would never happen. As Biblical prophecy continues to line-up, remember the words of Jesus Christ, "When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.))))

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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Just a note for those who believe the Book of Daniel is referring to what happened in 70AD....that John wrote Revelation in 95AD, 25 years later...of things YET to come.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did ;-)

Daniel 2:34-35

The *Times of the Gentiles*, not to be confused with the fulness of the Gentiles.

Thou sawest a STONE was cut without hands (((((( Christ Daniel 2:44-46, Zachariah 4:7 Genesis 49:24;1 Peter 2:8))))
which smote the image upon it's feet, that were of iron and clay, and broke them in pieces. Then were the iron and clay the brass, the silver and gold broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff( matthew 3:2) of the summer threshing floor, and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them, and the stone that smoteth the image became a great mountain and filled the whole earth.

******Zechariah 12:8-14 & 13:1**** Promised TO ISRAEL.


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ChrisJD

Hi Jeannette,


"That's why its so difficult sometimes to know exactly what God means by things foretold in Scripture."

But people talk like they know for certain anyway.

T
Tears_of_joy

http://www.templeinstitute.org/

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When you check out this link, please scroll down to the short discussion about the Greek word for the temple made without hands with scripture references, and think about whether Christ [u]is[/u] the eternal sacrifice or, there will actually be physical sacrifices in some future temple which will be then justified under His earthly reign.

If you decide the latter, how do your reconcile it with what you believe is the efficacy of your present theology? Does it raise any slight question of a works-based salvation - or not?

Acknowledgements to Rahman for finding this:

[url=http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzekielsMillennialTemple.htm]http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzekielsMillennialTemple.htm[/url]

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Hi Katy,

You may not be able to answer these questions, but first could you say where you got the long quote in your post on p2?

Although there is some dispute as to whom the two witnesses are-Enoch? Elijah? Moses?-there is not a dispute that the third Jewish Temple will be built, the only question is when.
'the only question is when'? Do you believe this?

"But leave out of your measuring the court outside the sanctuary of God; omit that, for it is given over to the Gentiles (the nations), and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months (three and one-half years). And I will grant the power of prophecy to My two witnesses for 1,260 (42 months; three and one-half years), dressed in sackcloth."
Do you believe these two periods of 'three and one-half years' run at the same time? If so, on what basis?

Rebuilding the Third Temple in accordance with the words of all the Hebrew prophets.
I found this interesting '[u]all[/u] the Hebrew prophets'?

Are you able to give any scripture references for this very specific prophecy of 'Rebuilding the Third Temple'?

The Temple sacrifices of the past will once again be instituted.
Does this mean they are planning to build on David's pattern?

If so, will this temple have to be replaced with Ezekiel's and necessarily the sacrifices he described, at some future date?

As Biblical prophecy continues to line-up, remember the words of Jesus Christ, "When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.
Noticing the word 'begin', do you believe the afore-mentioned third temple will have been completed before or after the battle at Jerusalem?

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Dorcas, there are so many articles so much information if you just look for it.

I have so many resources and information I will be glad to PM you if you like, but Tears of Joy's article confirms what my post said.

Tears of Joy...I get a News Letter from Rabbi Richman the Temple Institute. It is so informative as to what is going on in Israel today, many things you never hear on the News.

Unfortunately, we don't hear these things on the news, but through the Jerusalem Post, and other resources. Those who have no interest, or are blinded by yellow journalism against Israel will believe only a one sided argument.

I especially love how the press had sanitized Arafat, "the original PLO TERRORIST", who, if you have forgotten was behind the Airline hi-jacking in the 70's, the murdering of Jews during the Olympics( and so much more)...who NEVER really wanted PEACE to begin with....just the LAND. Why....to keep the Temple from being built.

The re making or re-telling of History is always a tactic of the enemy. The Idea that there are Palestinian Arabs is nonsense. If you look in strong’s, the Palestinians(not Jews) are the Philistines, who have always been the enemy of Israel from OT times. The genealogy of the Philistines goes all the way back to Genesis 10.

They came from the island of Crete...Greeks mind you.

However these modern day Palestinian Arabs are a displaced group of Arabs, not Palestinians...yet today's history would like you to think they are.


The rebuilding of the Third Temple has been something I have known about since I was a teen, and something that Good Prophecy teachers have taught as well.

Linn, what I also pick up on your comments is this.....you take these times that refer to the end and God's wrath, and turn them around as though it will be some wonderful time belonging to Gentiles as to their salvation.

Woe to those false prophets who say Peace Peace when there is no peace. You are leading *I believe* many people astray into a false sense of peace with scripture you have tried to manipulate to your liking. Not only here but "Who Killed Jesus" thread as well.

I would suggest a Good prophetic teacher who knows the book of Daniel, and how it correlates with Revelation, Israel, and the anti-christ.

The anti-christ will make a covenant of Hell with Israel to allow the rebuilding of the temple, and after 3 1/2 years turn on Israel.

I also believe the Mystery of God, Colossians 2 and Revelation 10:7 will have been removed from the earth at this time.

Before God CAN restore the Kingdom to Israel Acts 1:6&7, Gentile world power will be overthrown. They will be fed to the fouls of the air called "The great supper of God".....this is not going to be a pretty sight by any stretch of the imagination.

What I'd really like to know is, Why are you bothered by these things? Why do you insist on taking scripture about future promises to Israel and apply them to Gentiles wrapped in peaches and cream...misleading into false hope?

Today is the day of Salvation to both the Jew and the Greek forming the Church. These future promises to Israel are not to the Church, but to National Israel itself, at the end of the age, which also will be the final overthrow of Satan.

The Church is not going to overthrow Satan, or put an end to death. The Church is not the smiting stone used as some dominion power over the earth to knuckle under....but when or if you do see such things...this IS anti-christ...sitting in the temple as though it were God.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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ChrisJD wrote:
Hi Jeannette,

"That's why its so difficult sometimes to know exactly what God means by things foretold in Scripture."

But people talk like they know for certain anyway.

True!

Of course, there [i]are[/i] certainties, otherwise we wouldn't have a sure hope at all, or know that Jesus is Lord and that He was crucified and rose from the dead and is coming back as conquering King, to reign over the whole world.

But the exact manner of His coming, or the exact order of events leading up to it, or precisely where we are now in that sequence of events is another matter. (For example, do the events represented by the seven seals, seven trumpets and seven vials of Revelation happen one after another or all at the same time?)

If the facts in [i]Epicenter[/i] are correct, we know, for example, that the "Gog and Magog war" is still to come; but also that, for the first time, it's easily possible in the forseeable future, maybe the near future. But how and when is another question.

What we can do is be spiritualy aware, ready, watch and pray and learn to read the signs of the times.

And [i]the[/i] key sign is the nation of Israel.

Whether they know Him or not, whether they like it or not, they are His witnesses, as Isaiah said!

Not of course to deny the reality of the spiritual Israel, Jew and Gentile together in Christ. As I and others have said many times.

in Him

Jeannette

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Hi Katy

Linn, what I also pick up on your comments is this.....you take these times that refer to the end and God's wrath, and turn them around as though it will be some wonderful time belonging to Gentiles as to their salvation.
I have no idea how you read this into my posts.... honestly.

And, it is okay for me to ask you to back up your quotes from non-Christian sources.... about scripture ... with scripture references. I would be happy if you said you don't know where to find them, than to refer me to secular websites.

As you say, I can spend time cruising the internet for the sources you espouse, but you are claiming these as part of your [u]Christian[/u] belief... which is something I could never do.

One of my most longstanding quests as a believer has been to work rigorously at cross-referencing with[u]in[/u] scripture, what I then continue to hold as 'doctrine'. Don't you feel this is the only safe way forward?

Perhaps you would be encouraged to know that my understanding is changing, partly because of things which you say, [u]but[/u] at least some of the time, I come to a different conclusion from you as to what scripture means. I do this [u]without denying Israel[/u] her national destiny. Here's an example which militates against the separation of Israel and Church:

Colossians 1
18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [i]things[/i] he might have the preeminence.
19 For it pleased [i]the Father[/i] that in him should all fulness dwell;
20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, [u]by him to reconcile[/u] [b]all things[/b] unto himself; [b]by him[/b], [i]I say[/i], [b]whether[/b] [i]they be[/i] [b]things in earth, or things in heaven[/b].


I am doing my level best to understand your views and I ask questions only because they don't make sense to me in the light of scripture which I do believe I understand. (I mean, that scripture which I [i]do[/i] understand... I was not making a claim to understand it all [i]equally[/i])

Trusting that we both know the Lord personally, I don't particularly worry how much both of us may have to change our thinking to understand Him better, but I am bent on that alone.


And just because I'm not crying 'woe, woe' doesn't mean I don't understand how hard it may be to endure to the end. It's a regular topic of my prayers, that I may make it through.

Whether Jew or Gentile, Christians everywhere are going to be challenged.


This leads me to a question I've been wanting to ask you, in light of your many references to 'all Israel shall be saved' (which, (you should know) I do believe, but think it means something different from what you - so far - have explained to my understanding). [u]Note[/u] this is not a question about Sion, Zion Zech 12:10 or any end-time prophecy. What I wonder is: how are you defining 'all Israel'?

If you think you've answered this question previously, please indulge me again, particularly defining any Jews who will [u]not[/u] be saved.

Thanks. I look forward to greater mutual understanding.

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[*some slight editing of words, for clarity*]


dorcas wrote:

When you check out this link, please scroll down to the short discussion about the Greek word for the temple made without hands with scripture references, and think about whether Christ [u]is[/u] the eternal sacrifice or, there will actually be physical sacrifices in some future temple which will be then justified under His earthly reign.

If you decide the latter, how do your reconcile it with what you believe is the efficacy of your present theology? Does it raise any slight question of a works-based salvation - or not?

Acknowledgements to Rahman for finding this:

[url=http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzekielsMillennialTemple.htm]http://www.sonstoglory.com/ThirdTempleEzekielsMillennialTemple.htm[/url]

Hi Linn

We have been over this same ground again and again yet you still won't receive the truth of it!

think about whether Christ [u]is[/u] the eternal sacrifice [b]or[/b], there will actually be physical sacrifices in some future temple which will be then justified under His earthly reign.
Christ IS the eternal Sacrifice, AND there will probably be physical sacrifices in a third temple. The word "or" doesn't come into the question at all!

The main purpose of a third, physical temple and animal sacrifices, is that the Antichrist will come and set himself up as "God" there.

There [i]is[/i] a possible alternative (or additional) interpretation which has a bearing on the present increase in deception in the Church, (see the Emerging Merger thread). That is that the Antichrist will appear in the Church, claiming to be the true Christ.

Or probably both?

But the plain reading of Scripture is that there will be a third physical temple built in Jerusalem, and that there will be sacrifices made. Why not? [b]Does that in any way negate the fact that Jesus is the Sacrifice and there is no need of another?[/b]

Does it raise any slight question of a works-based salvation - or not?
Very definitely NOT! Why on earth (or in heaven for that matter!) should it?

As [i]Christians[/i] we know that Jesus is the Eternal Sacrifice for sin, and that there is no more need for any sacrifice, or "religion of works". The book of Hebrews explains this in depth.

But religious [i]Jews[/i] don't accept that, because they don't accept that Messiah has already come. [b]so why shouldn't they work towards rebuilding the temple and renewing sacrifices? And why shouldn't the Bible foretell that this will ALSO happen?[/b]

Why you keep talking as if there might be a problem reconciling the two I don't know.

in Him

Jeannette

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Hi Jeannette,

While I'm replying to your post, here is a link to the design of Solomon's temple, which was, apparently, patterned upon the Tabernacle.

Would this agree with your understanding of it?


[url=http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/king_solomons_temple/table_of_contents.htm]http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/king_solomons_temple/table_of_contents.htm[/url]

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I have no idea how you read this into my posts.... honestly.

Linn, on both here and on the "who Killed Jesus thread" I'm not the only one who may have suggested you are playing on the wrong side.

You say..." I really don't know what Dominion Theology is", and again say..."No I don't believe in Dominion Theology"....YET you are an excellent teacher of Dominion Theology whether you know it or not.

We do see in the secular NEWS very important facts leading up to end times prophecy, whether those news medias are Christian or secular.

If a secular News media definitely states those who have the building materials to re-build the Temple are in the works, what does that matter. News reports News.

Are you too calling the Temple Institute a secular part of information? Or are you just stating these facts are not true?

And just because I'm not crying 'woe, woe' doesn't mean I don't understand how hard it may be to endure to the end. It's a regular topic of my prayers, that I may make it through.

Are you living during the great tribulation NOW that you hope to make it through?

I believe we have a different understanding of the endurance of the Christians during the church Age, and some personal individual quest for those who will endure the Great tribulation.

What exactly are you *enduring* NOW? WE endure the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to the image of Jesus Christ. Not the same as those during the Great Tribulation, one that will be nothing like this world has ever seen...Matthew 24 & 25, who will endure something quite different...not taking the mark of the beast..who will be the enemy of Israel in the Last Days. We are NOW are being prepared to return with Christ at that time, executing Judgement ( Jude) and reigning with Christ during the Kingdom Reign.

If you can't separate these two totally different times, you will be enduring for the wrong reasons, with a different outcome.

Read 2 Thessalonians, where the early Church going through suffering also thought it was the Great Tribulation, and Paul states very Clearly, that day called "The Day of the Lord" is not yet. Yes, they too were being led astray by false teachers stating they had to endure to the end. Have YOU rejected the Love of the Gospel that you may be saved? If not, then why act as though you have and are one God's wrath is coming upon. Jesus took our wrath upon the Cross.

Peter also states "that day will not overtake US as a thief in the night".


If you think you've answered this question previously, please indulge me again, particularly defining any Jews who will not be saved.

Linn, Jews NOW, TODAY who have rejected the Gospel will not be saved under any circumstances, as well as Gentiles....as this is the Age of Grace. After the Church is translated out, Read Matthew 24....the Gospel of the *Kingdom* will be preached.... the Kingdom to be restored to Israel. We NOW live in the Gospel according to the Mystery.....the Church...Christ Body...bone of His Bone and flesh of His flesh.......this is not promised to future National Israel. Read 1 Corinthians 15 and read the order of events:

(1)Christ the First fruits
(2)THEN...Those who are His at His coming (the Church)
(3)AND THEN the Kingdom, where He must reign until He has put all things under His feet.

( If God states in Romans 11 *All* Israel will be saved...I'm not going to argue...are you? ;-)

(4) and then after all this is fulfilled everything will be THEN be The NEW Heaven and New Earth, delivered up to God...as we see in Revelation 21 & 22 where there is no need for the sun or the moon. See what it says then.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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http://www.lighthousetrailsresearch.com/blog/index.php?m=20061030

Linn, here is an excellent site re: Emergent Church, Dominion/Replacement Theology -anti-semitism ahd how it all links together.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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http://bsimmons.wordpress.com/2007/01/30/splitting-the-evangelicals-from-israel/

Linn, here is another great article. I hope this helps in understanding.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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ChrisJD

Hi Jeannette,


"Of course, there are certainties,..."


But those things are not being discussed here.

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ChrisJD wrote:
Hi Jeannette,


"Of course, there are certainties,..."


But those things are not being discussed here.

That's basically what I meant!

Love in Him

Jeannette

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ChrisJD

Jeannette,


"We have been over this same ground again and again yet you still won't receive the truth of it!"


Like this?

C
ChrisJD

Or how about this from Katy-Did,


"The Church is not going to overthrow Satan, or put an end to death. The Church is not the smiting stone used as some dominion power over the earth to knuckle under....but when or if you do see such things...this IS anti-christ...sitting in the temple as though it were God."

No certainties. Like that?

C
ChrisJD

Dorcas, I looked into the phrase you were talking about earlier in the thread and I think this is similar isn't it?


"The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God."


- Isaiah chapter 52 verse 10(KJV)


In chapter 53 it asks to whom is the Arm of the Lord Revealed. According to Strong's the word translated revealed is


H1540
גּלה
gâlâh
gaw-law'
A primitive root; to denude (especially in a disgraceful sense); by implication to exile (captives being usually stripped); figuratively to reveal: - + advertise, appear, bewray, bring, (carry, lead, go) captive (into captivity), depart, disclose, discover, exile, be gone, open, X plainly, publish, remove, reveal, X shamelessly, shew, X surely, tell, uncover.

It looks similar to the word in chapter 52 and verse 10 also.

Chris

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Also, 2 Corinthians 6:17 appears to be a qoutation of Isaiah 52:11.

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Hi Chris,

Thanks for joining the discussion. Your input is appreciated.

Actually, it was David (psalm1) who raised this question:

He said

I got a tape from a rabbi that said any time you see "and the Lord bare his right arm" that it is judgement against the gentiles.
I never did look into it.
Have you ever heard of this?
Because I hadn't ever noticed this and had never studied it, I didn't comment. But I have to say it's not how it reads in the context of the verse you quote (Isa 52:10) There are other mentions of God's 'arm' also, which are equally important.

Having come from an extremely Israel-sympathetic Christian background, it is only recently - mainly since The Passion was branded as 'anti-Semitic' - that I've begun to take note of the turmoil in the world around things to do with being Jewish today.

I've always been under the impression that evangelism was the Church's mission, and no-one would be saved in the end except Christians. To imagine an end before the return of Christ, or, before one's own natural (or unnatural) death, is definitely alien to my background theology...

... that is, the theology I'm trying to perfect ... ;-)

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Hi Katy,

Since your last post in which you are very specific about how you believe history will progress, I am clearer about why I don't always make sense of your posts.

Certainly, you are not basing [i]everything[/i] you state on your own Bible study and God's revealation to you personally, or perhaps you would be less (not more) ready to say what you think you know. That's what happens to me, anyway.

At the beginning of this thread, you drew my attention to the context of the verse for which I had asked clarification. When I went back and read Eze 38 and 39 through, I could see what you meant. Still, my verse come just after a change of focus, from the battle to a promise to Israel, which additionally, I can see within the context of their regularly drifting away from God, it was kind of Him to remind them that He was still [i][b]for[/b][/i] them. Therefore, in the context that I orginally came across the verse, it does make better sense than in the isolation I found it.

Having said all that, perhaps this is an obsolete comment. I would like to think so.

You are leading *I believe* many people astray into a false sense of peace with scripture you have tried to manipulate to your liking. Not only here but "Who Killed Jesus" thread as well.
In the other thread, though, there is nothing wrong with the discussion I have raised, even though you may be unfamiliar with the reasoning I'm putting forward. My comments are scriptural, thoughtful and hopefully, thought-provoking.

I would suggest a Good prophetic teacher who knows the book of Daniel, and how it correlates with Revelation, Israel, and the anti-christ.
I'd rather pray as I read scripture, thanks, and listen to Spirit-filled expositors.

The anti-christ will make a covenant of Hell with Israel to allow the rebuilding of the temple, and after 3 1/2 years turn on Israel.
Is this what you have learned from a 'Good prophetic teacher', or can you explain it to me from scripture?

What I'd really like to know is, Why are you bothered by these things?
I see it as a function of having been grafted into the olive root.

I see there will be a great victory for Israel against Israel's enemies - the massed Gentile powers of all origins. Is this Armageddon? Why not? What I don't understand about the way to talk of this time of victory (as far as I can make sense of it), is how the victorious Jews who don't know the Lord, are going to be saved, if all the Christians have already been taken out of the picture?

Why do you insist on taking scripture about future promises to Israel and apply them to Gentiles wrapped in peaches and cream...misleading into false hope?
I have slowly come to understand why you think this, and also, I am beginning to understand the simplicity of the Jews who know God having their own physical country in fulfillment of God's promises to bring them back from the nations where they've been sequestered. But, leaving aside your belief in pre-trib rapture, I don't see Christ's return as a moment for conversions, but rather, for wrath against those who have rejected Him, both Jews and Gentiles alike.

About 'false hope'... what hope is there outside Christ?

I also believe the Mystery of God, Colossians 2 and Revelation 10:7 will have been removed from the earth at this time.
Do you mean, this 'mystery'?

Ephesians 3:1 - 13 (Just one sentence!)
For this cause, I Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you the nations, if, indeed, ye did hear of the dispensation of the grace of God that was given to me in regard to you, that by revelation He made known to me the secret, according as I wrote before in few [i]words[/i] -- in regard to which ye are able, reading [i]it[/i], to understand my knowledge in the secret of the Christ, which in other generations was not made known to the sons of men, as it was now revealed to His holy apostles and prophets in the Spirit-- that the nations be fellow-heirs, and of the same body, and partakers of His promise in the Christ, through the good news, of which I became a ministrant, according to the gift of the grace of God that was given to me, according to the working of His power; to me--the less than the least of all the saints--was given this grace, among the nations to proclaim good news--the untraceable riches of the Christ, and to cause all to see what [i]is[/i] the fellowship of the secret that hath been hid from the ages in God, who the all things did create by Jesus Christ, that there might be made known now to the principalities and the authorities in the heavenly [i]places[/i], through the assembly, the manifold wisdom of God, according to a purpose of the ages, which He made in Christ Jesus our Lord, in whom we have the freedom and the access in confidence through the faith of him, wherefore, I ask [i]you[/i] not to faint in my tribulations for you, which is your glory. (Young's Literal Translation)

This is interesting..... Because of the mention of the prophets in Rev 10:7, I looked up 'mystery' in Youngs and the KVJ expecting it to throw up something from the Old Testament I'd never heard before. But it didn't.

Search Results: KJV

Mark 4:11
And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all [these] things are done in parables:

Ephesians 1:9
having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

Search results: Young

Mark 4:11
and he said to them, `To you it hath been given to know the secret of the reign of God, but to those who are without, in similes are all the things done;

Ephesians 1:9
having made known to us the secret of His will, according to His good pleasure, that He purposed in Himself,


In concluding this post let me repeat that I still don't know what 'Dominion Theology' is, so I ask you again to desist from this assumption.

Also, you have referred to 'Kingdom'... theology? (perhaps)... by which, are you able to give a definition of what you mean, please? I would find that helpful, thanks, (and of course, I would like scripture to support your understanding).

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Hi Jeannette,

I didn't reply sooner for a number of reasons, this being one of them... that you said

That is my concern too, Linn. Yet you will not hear.
That was not helpful to my willingness to be open-minded - although I will continue to be open-minded - or to share what the Lord has been bringing to my understanding.

Katy-did wrote:

Dorcas, This is a judgement against those who believe God is finished with Israel, and a warning to those who think the Church replaced those promises... This is judgement against Mystery Babylon..Gentile world power, exalting itself above God,..

...So be careful who's side your are playing on...

Now Jeannette, did you really [i]read[/i] [u]the rest[/u] of what Katy said here? (I didn't quote it all - p1 her third post.)

Do you mean you [i]agree[/i] that 'Mystery Babylon' is 'Gentile world power'?


I've been up half the night now, and I have to say I'm relieved finally to find this little clue to the reasoning I've struggled to comprehend.


Perhaps this discovery explains a great deal more also...

Bedtime beckons.... 8-)

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Jeannette,

Whether they know Him or not, whether they like it or not, they are His witnesses, as Isaiah said!
What Isaiah said is at least two thousand years out of date, except as it can be applied to those who believe in God. Jesus - the fulfillment of so much of Isaiah's prophecy - said His witnesses would take the message of His testimony to the Father's love, forward to the ends of the earth - and not only to Jews.

Please remember that when I write here, I am trying to open out the wider truth of scripture for those who are not familiar with it.

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markm

http://www.templeinstitute.org/slide_images/awakening_slide_8.jpg

Also pictured: The approximate location of the Garden of Gethsemane, where the red heifer was prepared... :)

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Good Morning Linn,

I have read over these questions and do want to take time to respond to each question with careful thought and scripture.

I want to let you know it won't be at this moment, but wanted you to know I will respond, and that I haven't overlooked or ignored here.

I will comment briefly concerning your response to the rapture as many call it and bring something here to mind for you.

There are only two instances the term "THE MYSTERY OF GOD" is used (as there are many references to Mystery this and Mystery that, but this exact phrasing is only used two times, one in Colossians 2 and the other in Rev 10:7.

Colossians 2 explicitly refers to the "Church", the Body of Christ. Would it be interesting that Rev 10:7 would be referring to the church? Can that be disproved?

To further this we see that this Mystery is in accordance with Paul's words in 1 Corinthians 15, *at* the last trump. The seventh angel who is about to sound IS *AT* the last trump, just prior to Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The [u][b]kingdoms [/b][/u] of this world are become the [u][b]kingdoms [/b][/u] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Now, it is interesting it says KINGDOM**S**, and not Kingdom.

Well, this is the announcement of the return of the Lord Jesus Christ second coming....as spoken in Matthew 24 and Acts 1:6&7 that it is a time only the Father knows about.

It is also stated when the Lord returns to reign and rule....WE, His Body, the Church will reign and rule with Him.

I guess because of these scriptures I lean more towards mid-trib rapture. The first 3 1/2 years are the judgments, of which it is stated not to touch "the wine and the oil", possibly those who are Christ’s still on earth. Also those affected with boils will not affect those who are again HIS.

When the Kingdoms of this world become the Kingdoms of Christ, that is the overthrow, or the announcement of the overthrow of Gentile world power, and if you really concentrate on the scriptures after, especially Chapter 12, the Woman (Israel) with the 12 stars etc....this is now concerning Israel, and the fulfillment of the promises and prophecies concerning Israel.

This is the New Covenant promised to Israel, and the fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant of Christ taking the throne of David, and the fulfillment of the Palestinian Covenant ( all these are unconditional Covenants) fulfilling the promise of the land. This is NOT to the church, or the Gospel according to the Mystery that belongs to the Church.

Well, I need to go for today, and will get back with you later.

Love in Christ
Katy-Did

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***EDIT, try again in response to same original post***


dorcas wrote:

Jeannette,

Whether they know Him or not, whether they like it or not, they are His witnesses, as Isaiah said!
What Isaiah said is at least two thousand years out of date, except as it can be applied to those who believe in God.
The appplication always was, and continues to be much wider than that. Why do you limit the Word of God in this way?

Jesus - the fulfillment of so much of Isaiah's prophecy - said His witnesses would take the message of His testimony to the Father's love, forward to the ends of the earth - and not only to Jews.
Yes, of course. Do you imagine this fact indicates that much of Isaiah is now "out of date"?

To use one truth to attack another, as you are doing, is wrong.

Please remember that when I write here, I am trying to open out the wider truth of scripture for those who are not familiar with it.
Maybe this is what you are trying to do, but the effect is the opposite - a dangerous narrowing down of truth.

in Him

Jeannette

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dorcas wrote:

Hi Jeannette,

While I'm replying to your post, here is a link to the design of Solomon's temple, which was, apparently, patterned upon the Tabernacle.

Would this agree with your understanding of it?

[url=http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/king_solomons_temple/table_of_contents.htm]http://www.phoenixmasonry.org/king_solomons_temple/table_of_contents.htm[/url]

This is published by the FREEMASONS!!!! The eye in the triangle at the top made it obvious that this was a spiritually unclean source, without need to read further.

In any case where is the relevance to this discussion? We are concerned with what the Bible says, not with Freemasonary!

Are you perhaps saying that this is where the Jewish movement to rebuild the Temple got their information?

But, even if they did, [i]what difference does it make to the present discussion???[/i]

As far as I know, no-one is saying (especially in the light of New Testament truth) that the Jews are [i]right[/i] to rebuild the Temple, and reinstate the sacrifices - only that Scripture seems to be saying that this [i]will[/i] happen. Also that this will mark a key stage in events leading up to the Lord's return (though the Antichrist comes first, as we are warned in Thessalonians).

The Gog and Magog war will also take place (because the historical evidence is that it hasn't yet happened), but that doesn't mean that those who attack Israel are right to do so, only that Scripture fortells it.

It is fulfillment of Bible prophecy that's important.

in Him

Jeannette

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Thanks for the link, markm. I looked at the whole set of slides. :-)

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Katy said

I want to let you know it won't be at this moment, but wanted you to know I will respond, and that I haven't overlooked or ignored here.
Thanks Katy. I am going to be in much less evidence over the coming weeks, indefinitely, (I know I've said this before but I think it's going to happen this time.) and I just want to acknowledge that I've found this post from you, and will give it my full attention in the coming days.

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Jeannette said

Maybe this is what you are trying to do, but the effect is the opposite - a dangerous narrowing down of truth.
I wonder whether it would be possible, then, for you to include in your posts when quoting fulfilled scripture, on which you rely for a [i]different[/i] point you are making, to lay out the distinction for the reader, yourself?

I don't believe truth can be narrowed, but, it can be presented along with statements which are untrue, or, used to bolster faulty reasoning.

And perhaps I've been completely wrong to assume that a positive witness for God is what the world requires. You are absolutely correct that the unbelieving Jew is just as much a witness, and the pain they have borne in fulfillment of the prophecies of several prophets, can be used just as clearly to support both God and scripture.

This is published by the FREEMASONS!!!!
I noticed that (of course) and it fits with the word on the ground that they want Jerusalem. (This is not directly scriptural to my knowledge of scripture, but it is compatible with the fulfillment of prophecy, of course).

As far as I know, no-one is saying (especially in the light of New Testament truth) that the Jews are right to rebuild the Temple, and reinstate the sacrifices
Jeannette,

I have accepted this point some time ago. The reason that I've posted these links, and questioned you, is because the Temple Institute appears to be hoping to rebuild Solomon's Temple, but it has been put to me here on SI, that the 'third temple' has to be Ezekiel's temple.

I have assumed you are aware of the differences in layout, but supplied a link of a model of Ezekiel's temple to be sure, and also, I have assumed you are aware of the differences in sacrifices required under both.

I keep raising the matter of the sacrifices, because I understood that Jesus died once for all, and there is no more sacrifice for sin. In a way, now I am asking what would the sacrifices in Ezekiel's temple be for, if it is built at some future time, as much as I am asking what is the scriptural support for the 'third temple'.

Again, I have been told that a 'third temple' is prophesied in scripture and I still don't know - apart from Ezekiel's - where there is any other reference to 'the third temple'.

Realising that non-Christian Jews are planning to build a third temple in no way answers my request for supporting scripture.

If you and others are saying that they are simply [u]guessing[/u] they need a temple because they haven't been able to have one for so long... then please tell me that's all there is to it, and that [i]purely[/i] they are making assumptions based on the existence of a first temple.

Again, I would bring forward for general consumption...

John 4
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, [u]and now is[/u], when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God [i]is[/i] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [i]him[/i] in spirit and in truth.
25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am [i]he[/i].

P
psalm1

Dorcas, Are you referring to the temple that the antichrist sacrifices a pig in?
Just wondering.

David

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psalm1 wrote:
Dorcas, Are you referring to the temple that the antichrist sacrifices a pig in?
Just wondering.

David

Hi David

A pig isn't mentioned, only that the temple is defiled. Antiochas Epiphanus, an evil Roman emperor, apparently sacrificed a pig on the altar in the Jewish temple. He was a kind of Antichrist figure, but obviously not THE Antichrist. This happened [i]before[/i] Jesus came, yet He referred to a future fulfillment, which happened in 70AD, when the temple was destroyed last time. But I doubt very much if this was the complete or final fulfillment, but that that is still to come

Of course Dorcus is right in quoting from John 4 about worshipping in spirit and in truth, just that isn't the whole story.

I found this link which explains things very clearly - better than I can! At least as far as I've read:

http://www.letusreason.org/Doct4.htm

We aren't told exactly what the Antichrist will do, except for:

Daniel 8
[color=990000]12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

13 Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot?[/color]

2Thessalonians 2:
[color=990000]3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that [b]he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God[/b].[/color]

Jesus spoke of Daniel's words re the defiling of the temple:

Mt 24:15 [color=990000] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)...[/color]

Mr 13:14 [color=990000]But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,)...[/color]

So, whether a temple such as in Ezekiel's vision, or the form of temple which present day Jews are aiming to build I don't know. But I have little doubt that there will be some form of temple, and that the Antichrist will defile it, as the above Scriptures say.

Of course, it would be possible to spiritualise the whole thing and deny any future [i]physical[/i] fulfillment at all. This is called Preterism. At its extreme it even denies the physical return of Christ.

But that's another subject...

in Him

Jeannette

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http://www.letusreason.org/Doct4.htm

Here's an extract from the article:

"Dan.8:12-14 Daniel’s prediction has its partial fulfillment in the time of the Maccabees. For us to understand the future fulfillment we need to understand what happened to the Maccabees. Daniel’s prophecy is a picture of what will also happen in the last days. Rev.13:15 with the image of the beast being worshipped and Matt 24:15: “Therefore when you see the 'abomination of desolation,' spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place.” This prediction is totally fulfilled in the end times but was partially fulfilled in the time of the Maccabees as prophecy sometimes has repetitive patterns.

There have been multiple fulfillments of the abomination through out history. The event of Antiochus was a type of the future anti Christ in partial fulfillment. As was the destroying of the temple when the Romans came and they set up pagan images on the temple mount such as Zeus and worshipped them to symbolize political dominion over the house of God, this too was an abomination. In the 2nd century the Emperor Hadrian leveled the city of Jerusalem and built a pagan city with the temple of Jupiter which was another type of the abomination of desolation. Another example the Muslims dome of the Rock is a type of a abomination of desolation. On the outside of the dome is a quotation saying of a Sura in the Koran which says “God has no Son.’ 2 Jn. says he who denies the Father and the son is anti Christ. So this to is a type of what will be done in the future by the Anti-Christ as he speaks against God."

Blessings

Jeannette

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Linn,

Every year, as we anticipating the Lord's soon return is sure to generate paranoia about the end times. We see this with so many books written in our day, stating times and dates etc, etc. The obsession with "things to come" is probably going to be unprecedented from any thing we've witnessed in the past. The predictions of these so-called modern day prophets will range from setting dates for the Rapture to receiving a special revelation that the Church is going through part or all of the Tribulation period. I just mentioned one on another thread here. This by the way, takes your mind OFF of Christ and glued to Fox News…..a sure fire filibuster used by the enemy to keep you from Growing in the Grace and Knowledge of Him.
Now, as I have stated many times here before, in the Old Testament there are two comings of Messiah…one as King, and one as redeemer. One does not negate the other, but one (the Redeemer) needed to come first before Messiah KING could come. Jesus Redeemer (***left*** His Glory ---Philippians 1&2) and Jesus Christ KING will come in ALL His Glory. Redeemer first, King next.
One of the problems Judas had with Jesus was that He…Jesus didn’t overthrow the Roman Empire, or even act as though He was…which was part of what they believed Jesus KING was to do, fulfilling the 70th week left in Daniel.
This was also asked by the Apostles (Peter) in Acts 1:6&7 if at THIS time, the Kingdom would be restored, as promised…and Jesus said NO, not at this time. This time is the age of GRACE, not the KINGDOM age restored to Israel.
Because of this , the state of confusion that the Church finds itself in is largely a product of its own doing. You would think that after so many failed attempts to accurately predict the Rapture those who make such claims would be reluctant to appear in public. Yet the Church persists in its rejection of the Gospel according to the Mystery that was committed to Paul, that of the Church, the Body of Christ, both Jew and Gentile, making one new man….so making peace with us who are HIS Body, through the Cross.
"And to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come" (I Thess. 1:10).
According to Paul's gospel the Rapture is imminent, that is, it could take place at any moment. There are no signs, times, or seasons that will precede this glorious event. It could be the year 2000 or 2005; then again it may be 2075. We simply don't know how long the longsuffering of God will be extended to the Gentiles. God may well extend His grace for another two thousand years, although this seems unlikely.
THE HYSTERIA OVER THE ANTI-CHRIST
"And then shall that Wicked [one—the anti-christ] be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders" (II Thes. 2:8,9).
It is inexcusable for someone who understands Paul's unique apostleship and message, of the Gospel according to the Mystery…Romans 16:24-27 with the promises exclusively to Israel. We should probably brace ourselves because these types of departures from the faith will become more and more common as the days grow more evil. We've often said that those who depart from the doctrine of the Rapture of the Church never fully understood the nature of Paul's gospel to begin with. If the Rapture is near, as some predict, or the Body of Christ is going through the coming Tribulation, as others teach, this explains the present day mania over the identity of the anti-christ.

Yet, if you really look at Paul’s teaching, you will see comments like:
You’ve been translated out of the world into the Kingdom of His dear Son.
Seek those things that are above and not below
Those who mind earthly things are enemies of the Cross
That you would know the Hope of YOUR calling
No longer of this world…..My Kingdom is not of this world
Waiting for our Blessed Hope
Also note Paul says WE , the church will meet Christ in the Clouds…..yet we want to throw away large sections of scripture, and our obedience to that scripture to try and figure out who, what, when, and where the anti-christ………
Where does Paul teach us to do this?

Example:
One popular prophecy teacher was convinced that the anti-christ was Bill Clinton. He points out that the number equivalent of his name is 666. Through elaborate charts, diagrams, and genealogies he somehow draws the conclusion that Mr. Clinton is a direct descendant of the Emperor Nero, and heir to the Rothchild fortune. According to him, Mr. Clinton could be, might be, probably is the anti-christ, the last great world dictator. He's the seventh head1 of John's apocalyptic vision (Rev. 13:1 cf. 17:9), which, by the way, this self-ordained prophet surmises the heads to be:

(1) Nebuchadnezzar
(2) Cyrus
(3) Alexander the Great
(4) Antiochus Epiphanes
(5) Nero
(6) Hitler
(7) Clinton—anti-christ

Wow. If there's one thing that the past should have taught us, it would be that it is extremely dangerous to interpret the Bible according to current events, so much so that if we don't intrepret correctly so, we cause others to lose their faith. Those who lived through World War II will recall how well-known Bible teachers confidently declared Adolph Hitler to be the anti-christ, only to find that they had to recant their position after the war. While it could be said Hitler was anti-christ, he was not the anti-christ foretold by the prophets. Many also, who believed this were waiting for the Rapture and many lost their faith at that time.

I can recall during the Nixon administration many believed Henry Kissinger was the anti-christ, and they too found themselves in an awkward situation trying to explain that it was apparently a case of mistaken identity. Then we were told President Clinton was the anti-christ.....now Bush, then the USA, and it goes on and on. And look how rich these authors are getting over these self procalimed "God's Greatest Prophet of Our Time", that always seems to be the words on the inside jacket, or someone acclaiming this for someone else.

Incidentally, we know Bill Clinton could not have been the son of perdition for a number of reasons. First , the last three world leaders referred to by this prophetic teacher, Nero (54-68 A.D.), Hitler (1939-1945), and Bill Clinton (1992-2000), have all ruled and reigned during God's parenthetical period of Grace. But the anti-christ is inseparably bound to prophecy; therefore, his reign cannot begin until the close of the age of Grace.

Truth always exposes error. This is why in my personal ministry I have never spent a lot of time familiarizing myself with false teaching. I spend the lion's share of my time studying the truth—it makes error stand out like ink on a white shirt.

They say the Federal Reserve never train its agents with counterfeit bills for obvious reasons. Instead, they take actual currency and make each agent memorize the minutest detail of each denomination. This is done over and over again until it makes an indelible impression upon them. Consequently, when counterfeit bills are intermingled with the real thing, they are able to detect the forgery every time. The same is true in regard to spiritual things; darkness cannot withstand the light of God's Word.

WHAT THE SCRIPTURES SAY ABOUT THE ANTI-CHRIST

The prefix "anti" means against and/or instead of. Both are true concerning this future dictator. He poses as the Messiah, but opposes Christ by executing all that name His name. The anti-christ will have a winsome personality that the world will find irresistible. The prophet Daniel says:

"And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all" (Dan. 11:36,37).

In this narrative, the prophet Daniel gives us a biographical sketch of the anti-christ. As we know, the Tribulation is said to open with wars and rumors of wars. It will be a period of unparalleled lawlessness (Matt. 24:6 cf. II Thes. 2:7). Like Hitler, the anti-christ will take full advantage of the times. In fact, they will provide the platform for him to
"prosper politically" and become a household name.

During the forty days in which Christ was tempted, you will recall the devil took our Lord up into a high mountain and "...showed unto Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. And the devil said unto Him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever I will I give it. If thou therefore wilt worship me, all shall be thine. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Get thee behind me, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and Him only shalt thou serve" (Luke 4:5-8).

Notice that the world lies in the lap of the evil one. The devil gained power over the nations when Adam fell. Clearly he has control of the kingdoms of this world if he offered them to Christ. Of course, our Lord exposed the devil's desire to overthrow the plans and purpose of God by quoting the Scriptures. But the anti-christ, whose coming is after the working of Satan, will happily receive control of the nations (Rev. 13:1,2,7). While we know him to be a ruthless dictator who opposes the righteous ways of God, he begins his reign of terror as a man of peace. And, sadly, the world will be predisposed to accept peace at any price.

Having control of the kingdoms of this world, the anti-christ negotiates a peaceful solution with those nations that are at war with one another. Eventually, he forms an alliance with these nations which serve as his seat of authority (Rev. 13:2 cf. 17:9-13). At the same time, the anti-christ strikes a covenant with the nation Israel, which allows her to re-establish the Old Testament sacrificial system. This brings peace to the Middle East.

"And he [the man of sin] shall confirm the covenant with many for one week [7 years]: and in the midst of the week [middle of the Tribulation] he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation..." (Dan. 9:27).

The anti-christ will seek to conceal his identity for as long as possible at the beginning of the Tribulation. In other words, he would never be so foolish as to say publicly, "I have come to deceive and rob the nations." This isn't how deception works. Notice that Daniel states: "He shall confirm the covenant with many for one week...." This impostor will establish this peace agreement with "many" in Israel, but not all. While he may deceive the religious leaders and their followers as to his true identity, apparently some in Israel will suspect that he has evil intentions, and rightfully so.

The initial agenda of the anti-christ will be to bring peace to the world, as uncertain and fleeting as that may be. As this false sense of security sweeps across the landscape, the world will wonder after the beast, saying, "Who is like unto the beast?" (Rev. 13:4). But "when they shall say, peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape" (I Thes. 5:3). It quite literally is going to be hell on earth with the wrath of God raining down from heaven and the military machine of the anti-christ crushing anyone or any nation that stands in his path.

"But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things" (Dan. 11:38). In addition to his lavish lifestyle, the anti-christ will honor the God of forces with his wealth. The word "forces" is the Hebrew term "ma'owz" or fortresses. Satan is the god of fortresses or war—he is the author of confusion.

The General who leads the forces of evil into battle in the coming day of the Lord is none other than the anti-christ. His military prowess will make the remarkable accomplishments of Alexander the Great look insignificant. He is the rider on the white horse who goes forth to conquer (Rev. 6:2). And the main objective of this diabolical leader will be to do battle with the saints and destroy the Nation Israel. Little wonder the souls of the martyrs cry out to the Father, "how long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?" (Rev. 6:10).

Daniel also informs us that "neither shall he regard the God of his fathers" (Dan. 11:37). The phrase "God of his fathers" is uniquely Hebrew. The "fathers" is a reference to the patriarchs, namely Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Upon receiving the decree from King Artaxerxes that Israel could return to the land with the gold and silver vessels of the temple, Ezra offered a prayer of thanksgiving:

"Blessed be the LORD God of our fathers, which hath put such a thing as this in the king's heart, to beautify the house of the LORD which is in Jerusalem" (Ezra 7:27).

In relation to the anti-christ, he will have little regard for the "God of his fathers." He'll have absolutely no desire to know Him nor worship Him.

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