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The Rambling Prophetic

H
HIServant

What I hear too often, "America is going to crash and burn! It's going to be missiles, or bombs, or earthquakes! Maybe we have 1 year left, maybe two! Woe is us!" As I discussed this with a brother, what do you say then to your children, "Eat, drink and be merry for tomorrow we die?" PERISH THE THOUGHT! This time is prime for stretching out to preach hope and salvation to the Lost in their hour of most desperate need! NOT to talk about all the details that WE THINK will happen...because we cannot point to scripture and find either the destruction of America in such manner nor the great improvement and huge success of America in this time either.

Regardless we must only BASE our prophetic teachings on the accuracy of the WORD alone...not feelings nor visions. My concern as is my friends this day when we spoke...is that we base all this prophecy on what we think we hear. Rhetorically, am I wrong then for basing my faith in these times on what GOD says...instead of the incessant voices of rambling prophetical leaning souls..self approving and jointly certifying each other?

What HIS WORD says….Jeremiah 14:14: “Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.”
Lamentations 2:14 “Thy prophets have seen vain and foolish things for thee: and they have not discovered thine iniquity, to turn away thy captivity; but have seen for thee false burdens and causes of banishment.”
Matthew 7:15 “Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Matthew 24:11 “And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.”
Matthew 24:24 “For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”
Mark 13:22 “For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.”
Luke 6:26 “\tWoe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
2 Peter 2:1 “But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.”
1 John 4:1 “Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.”

[u][b][size=small][color=CC0000]The Rambling Prophetic[/color][/size][/b][/u]

The “prophets” proclaim great destruction
in a way which is grievous to CHRIST…
Though “light” is HIS burden and “easy” HIS yoke,
still they preach so one fears for their life.

Though End Times seem surely upon us,
“All’s demise” often voiced fails to bless.
Creating distress when our LORD speaks of peace
births the question…”Why sense I no rest?”

This span which precedes HIS appearing
should be viewed with great zeal for the Lost!
So rather than listen to subjective servants,
my hopes are entwined with HIS cross!

As HIS servant in your service,
WVW Jasnoch 1/8/08

S
sermonindex

Putting "America" to the side for a moment - what does God say to The WORLD in HIS WORD?

When people like David Wilkerson or others of his ilk, speak judgment upon this nation - WHY is it?

Despite whether we are going to see judgment, today or five years from now - how long can a nation - ANY nation - continue to kill, and sin to the extremes that some nations have?

Has GOD changed?

Do these verses mean anything?

1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
1Th 5:3[b] For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.[/b]
1Th 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.
1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.
1Th 5:6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.
1Th 5:7 For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night.
1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for a helmet, the hope of salvation.

Jer 6:11 Therefore I am full of the fury of the LORD; I am weary with holding in: I will pour it out upon[i] the children abroad[/i], and upon the assembly of young men together: for even the husband with the wife shall be taken, the aged with him that is full of days.
Jer 6:12 And their houses shall be turned unto others, with their fields and wives together: for I will stretch out my hand upon the inhabitants of the land, saith the LORD.
Jer 6:13 For from the least of them even unto the greatest of them every one is given to covetousness; and from the prophet even unto the priest every one dealeth falsely.
Jer 6:14 [b]They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace.[/b]
Jer 6:15 Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD.
Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
Jer 6:17 [b]Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.
Jer 6:18 Therefore hear, [u]ye nations[/u], and know, O congregation, what is among them.
Jer 6:19 Hear, [u]O earth[/u]: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it. [/b]
Jer 6:20 To what purpose cometh there to me incense from Sheba, and the sweet cane from a far country? your burnt offerings are not acceptable, nor your sacrifices sweet unto me.
Jer 6:21 Therefore thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will lay stumblingblocks before this people, and the fathers and the sons together shall fall upon them; the neighbor and his friend shall perish.
Jer 6:22 Thus saith the LORD, Behold, a people cometh from the north country, and a great nation shall be raised from the sides of the earth.
Jer 6:23 They shall lay hold on bow and spear; they are cruel, and have no mercy; their voice roareth like the sea; and they ride upon horses, set in array as men for war against thee,[i] O daughter of Zion. [/i]
Jer 6:24 We have heard the fame thereof: our hands wax feeble: anguish hath taken hold of us, and pain, as of a woman in travail.
Jer 6:25 Go not forth into the field, nor walk by the way; for the sword of the enemy and fear is on every side.
Jer 6:26 [i]O daughter of my people[/i], gird thee with sackcloth, and wallow thyself in ashes: make thee mourning, as for an only son, most bitter lamentation: for the spoiler shall suddenly come upon us.
Jer 6:27 I have set thee for a tower and a fortress among my people, that thou mayest know and try their way.
Jer 6:28 They are all grievous revolters, walking with slanders: they are brass and iron; they are all corrupters.
Jer 6:29 The bellows are burned, the lead is consumed of the fire; the founder melteth in vain: for the wicked are not plucked away.
Jer 6:30 Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them.


I challenge anyone who hates hearing judgment to tell me, just how much effort do they put into soul winning on a daily basis?

Whether we live in good times or bad - we are to go into all the world and preach the gospel.

Even reading the early church fathers, they thought judgment would come, the last days type, even in there time --- but they still carried the Gospel around the world.

The LORD could use these calls to propel the complacent into "occupying until He comes" as He commanded.

Rather than call them all false prophets and find yourself in hot water - possibly it may just be for you and whomever else to just "be about the Father's business" and leave the judging to the LORD of anyone that says a negative word against your or anyone else's country.

You'd have to be a prophet yourself to go too far in pronouncing too many others as false.

Think about some who are Speakers on this site and then look at your list of Scriptures.

Judging either way there. We must be careful and work while it's yet day - whether they are right or wrong.

S
sermonindex

HisServant, Good Point!

I can relate to what you are saying.

We are instructed to live by Faith, and not by sight.

We live by the faith of Christ in us, setting our affections on things above and not below.

As Christians, regardless of the times any of us are called to live in or through, as I see down through History, from Genesis on, The Saints lived by Faith.....Hebrews 11!!

Love in Christ
Katy :-)

S
sermonindex

I do agree with you on that there is no mention about the destruction of America in the bible nor it's success. Since I do not believe in what everyone else believes in that these are the Last Days of planet Earth, however I do believe regarding the powers that be namely nations that God has strengthened as a superpower, in that their time has come when the balances are found wanting.

There are many scriptures that tell us of great nations that when they begin to trust in themselves instead of the God that made them great, trouble is on the horizon. It begins when the light of Gods' people are darkened and we take on the nature of the world thus letting down our standard and settling for a bowl of pottage instead of the presence of the holy Spirit.

There is always one or more persons who is standing in the gap and making up the hedge. When we all fail to take our place, Christ Jesus who is the one that is Faithful and True will always stand in the gap and make up the hedge until we, all of us once again offer ourselves as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable unto God which is our reasonable service, then we with our LORD will hold back the gates of hell. For it is written that we are the church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against her because Christ our Head has prevailed and the enemy cannot prevail against Him no more.

It's not too late for America or the other nations of the world that is in agreement with her. We think that if we just sit back and wait for all the destructions to come to pass that that is what God wants to do. I tell you the truth, "It's not His will that any should perish but all come to the knowledge of the truth". Though He may say that He will destroy and spare not, lets not take God at His word, lets do what Moses did and stand in the gap and make up the hedge and cry unto God to spare this nation and all nations alike. For this is what God is searching for, someone who will not be satisfied with the decree. The disciples wanted fire to come down and destroy destroy destroy, but Jesus said, "You know not what spirit you are of". God is not into destruction, but He will use it to do what He must do. But He wants us to be merciful, show kindness, to be longsuffering. It's this fruit that He longs to see in us, for they bear His character. His investment in us has not been wasted, when He sees the fruit, He sees Christ being formed in you.

Please don't misconstrued my words when I said, "Lets not take God at His word". Certainly we are to take God at His word, but I am talking about when God is ready to destroy, lets not be satisfied with His decree, lets stand in the way and intercede. Lets block Him, lets throw ourselves in His path. Look what God said to Moses.

Deuteronomy 9:14 Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they.
"Let me alone" in our vernacular that would be, "Leave me alone".

We say, "God is God and He'll do anything that He wants." And here is a man of God irritating as it were the God of heaven to spare His people. Amazing.

We don't know our God at all.

S
sermonindex

I do not believe in what everyone else believes in that these are the Last Days of planet Earth
Why not?

Not sure if [i]everyone[/i] else believes it though...
And there are [b]Biblical[/b] prophecies that haven't been fulfilled yet. For example, the "Gog and Magog" war. There has apparently not been [i]any[/i] time in history so far when all the nations spoken of there (their modern equivalents that is) unite to attack Israel. Yet now things are building up that way...

Love in Him

Jeannette

S
sermonindex


Katy-did wrote:
HisServant, Good Point!

I can relate to what you are saying.

We are instructed to live by Faith, and not by sight.

We live by the faith of Christ in us, setting our affections on things above and not below.

As Christians, regardless of the times any of us are called to live in or through, as I see down through History, from Genesis on, The Saints lived by Faith.....Hebrews 11!!

Love in Christ
Katy :-)

Amen.

However, the signs of the times are plainly indicating that it may not be long before the Lord returns.

So we do need to be ready, more than ever before.

I think I said in another thread that I will be surprised if I die before the Lord returns, and I'm 60 this year! It won't matter either way, just I'd be surprised!

in Him

Jeannette

S
sermonindex


Compliments wrote:
I do agree with you on that there is no mention about the destruction of America in the bible nor it's success.

...I do believe regarding the powers that be namely nations that God has strengthened as a superpower, in that their time has come when the balances are found wanting.

There are many scriptures that tell us of great nations that when they begin to trust in themselves instead of the God that made them great, trouble is on the horizon. It begins when the light of Gods' people are darkened and we take on the nature of the world thus letting down our standard and settling for a bowl of pottage instead of the presence of the holy Spirit.

True, it doesn't really need a prophet to see that. As I said, we only need to be able to read the signs of the times.

There is always one or more persons who is standing in the gap and making up the hedge. When we all fail to take our place, Christ Jesus who is the one that is Faithful and True will always stand in the gap and make up the hedge until we, all of us once again offer ourselves as a living sacrifice holy and acceptable unto God which is our reasonable service,
It is He in us who stands in the gap, we can't do it ourselves. I'm sure you agree, but just wanted to make that clearer in case anyone thinks [i]we[/i] can do it

then we with our LORD will hold back the gates of hell. For it is written that we are the church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against her because Christ our Head has prevailed and the enemy cannot prevail against Him no more.
The quote about the gates of hell not prevailing doesn't mean that the earth will go on for ever, or that evil won't continue to increase.

Indeed it has to for the Lord to return (which I think you said you [i]do[/i] believe). Scripture says that the "harvest" both of good and evil has to come to ripeness on the earth before the Lord sends in His reapers. Which means that evil will become more and more evil in the world, in spite of our prayers. Although, as you said re Moses, the Lord may indeed delay this in response to our intercession, (or rather, HIS in us).

The victory of God's true people will be similar to Jesus' victory on the Cross, and by His power. Thus the gates of hell will indeed not prevail against us, even if we are slain for His Name. The end of Hebrews 11 and Revelation 2-3 shows that, who the overcomers are, and by what means they overcome. Not by pushing back the Enemy in the world, but by laying down our lives (maybe literally) when the he "comes in like a flood".

It's not too late for America or the other nations of the world that is in agreement with her. We think that if we just sit back and wait for all the destructions to come to pass that that is what God wants to do. I tell you the truth, "It's not His will that any should perish but all come to the knowledge of the truth". Though He may say that He will destroy and spare not, lets not take God at His word, lets do what Moses did and stand in the gap and make up the hedge and cry unto God to spare this nation and all nations alike. For this is what God is searching for, someone who will not be satisfied with the decree. The disciples wanted fire to come down and destroy destroy destroy, but Jesus said, "You know not what spirit you are of". God is not into destruction, but He will use it to do what He must do. But He wants us to be merciful, show kindness, to be longsuffering. It's this fruit that He longs to see in us, for they bear His character. His investment in us has not been wasted, when He sees the fruit, He sees Christ being formed in you.
AMEN!

Please don't misconstrued my words when I said, "Lets not take God at His word". Certainly we are to take God at His word, but I am talking about when God is ready to destroy, lets not be satisfied with His decree, lets stand in the way and intercede. Lets block Him, lets throw ourselves in His path. Look what God said to Moses.
Deuteronomy 9:14 Let me alone, that I may destroy them, and blot out their name from under heaven: and I will make of thee a nation mightier and greater than they.
"Let me alone" in our vernacular that would be, "Leave me alone".

We say, "God is God and He'll do anything that He wants." And here is a man of God irritating as it were the God of heaven to spare His people. Amazing.

We don't know our God at all.

No indeed, we can't put Him in a box with a neat label!

Yet, in the end destruction will come.

Even though Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah it was destroyed some years later...

How can the Lord create a "new heavens and a new earth" unless He first dissolves the old one. Not by flood any more (as He promised Noah) but by fire.

I'm sure you are aware of the scriptures on this, but will look them up if wanted...

Though probably not tonight!

Bless you, Brother, you always stimulate and make me think more deeply on things!

in Him

Jeannette

S
sermonindex

So we do need to be ready, more than ever before.


Jeannette, I couldn't agree with you more.

You mentioned Israel, and that is where our eyes and prayers if on anything here on earth should be.


Paul said, Wake up!


Keeping both in mind, John leaves us with this:

1 John 3
1Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.

2Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.

Love in Christ
Katy

H
HIServant

Thank you for all your feedback. I may have missed my intended point but not by far. I know, as those who post here, what Scriptures say and agree that judgment and all that GOD shares regarding End times with us WILL come to pass.

I agree that we need to be prepared. Were my comments based on NOT wanting to hear of it? Not at all. My comments are to those who feel called to be prophets to be wary of their words and the way they state it. Death and life is in the power of the tongue...thus the spoken and written word as well.

If I preach judgement and HEll fire and brimstone and the end of all things because HE calls me to it, GLORY! That is purposed!

HOwever, I review the sheer overload on multiple sites and venues such as radio and TV and there is little to no hope given. Only the damnation of all and no encouragement of CHRIST's hope in the message to build someone up...to encourage them to preach to the LOST with a greater fervency...which I now feel!

I have been blessed by GOD to scribe over 2,000 poems for HIS glory with scriptural support. 40 years worth of study of HIS WORD and display of HIS gift for which I am unworthy..yet so thankful. So if one is surely called to prophecy, Amen! But to bang the drum WITHOUT HIS indwelling or calling...does great damage. I admitted and continue to admit being a flawed vessel. I would love to know that all I hear and read about End Times from the Body is sent and approved by GOD. But I am reminded of the 400 prophets of Baal who spoke to Ahab what he wanted to hear. Only 1 spoke for GOD. Who are the prophets of Baal today? Does not satan array his messengers as messengers of light...yet disguising and end time message so that the result is not spiritual fear of GOD but physical fear of bombs, famine, disease, etc?

When the numbers filling the airwaves and blogs near "countless", I know that many do NOT speak for GOD.

The only REAL PROOF IS THE WORD OF GOD. Show me differently. Thus,40 well known prophets "confirming" something as from GOD is suspect to me with the very mention of it.

I dont have all the answers but have realized through my many travels and many years...only the BIBLE is truth and if I cant point to a passage of scripture for DEFINITIVE answers...then what I am told by others cannot be more than "their version". Else I run to an fro...listening for what the prophets are saying and NOT to what GOD is speaking to me in a still small voice. That is the reality which is presently drawing many, less mature christians to follow the word of man and not of GOD.

There is no disrepect nor condemnation of prophets. Simply a recommendation to carefully weigh what we feel compelled to write or say regarding end times.

The weaker christians, I am seeing daily, are falling under the weight of so much fear. That is not HIS SPIRIT.

My tears and my encouragements are for them.

C
Compton

I understood you brother.

If we stare at evil long enough it might just crawl into our skulls and start looking out through our eyeballs. A little research is a fine thing, but an obsession is not a burden to be trusted. There is a healthier devotion.

"And they were continually devoting themselves to the Apostles' teaching (what is now the bible) and to fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer." ~~ Acts 2:42"

Tony Evans tells about a cruise ship he and his wife were on. One evening the captain announced that a storm was coming and that the passengers should return to their quarters. The storm did come, and with 50 foot waves it was violent enough to knock furniture over, even sliding the grand piano in the ballroom. Mrs. Evans became so agitated that she called the captain, demanding to know why he allowed the ship to enter this storm. The captain's assistant called her right back, and after patiently listening to her layman's opinion on navigation at sea, he respectfully assured her, Mrs. Evans, this ship was engineered and built with this storm in mind.

Likewise, we are kept safe in a savior who has our storms in mind as well. Your life is hid with Christ in God. This is true not just for us who have perfect theology. ;-)

Come let us reason...which of us will be more prepared for the 'end-times': he who spend his days looking at the evil of this world, or the one who spends his days looking at Jesus, and building up the body with his preoccupation with Christ? I am not wanting to be disrespectful, trite or insulting.

This is a crucial question with an answer that has been becoming more clear to me in recent weeks.

The weaker christians, I am seeing daily, are falling under the weight of so much fear. That is not HIS SPIRIT.

My tears and my encouragements are for them

Brother that's me. I am the weaker. To the Lord, I need Thee every hour, in joy or pain; Come quickly and abide, or life is in vain. I thank you for your tears...they are precious to me.

MC

H
HIServant


[b][size=small]"If we stare at evil long enough it might just crawl into our skulls and start looking out through our eyeballs. A little research is a fine thing, but an obsession is not a burden to be trusted. There is a healthier devotion."[/size][/b]

MC, thank you for your words. That is HOW I feel. Pointing at all the negatives which the LORD has pointed out in HIS WORD are surely coming at some point, being prepared as such and taking the measures necessary is what we are called to do.

We need to be prepared. But always looking for the evil and the signs has transformed countless souls that I come across into weakened vessels who are too fearful to stretch out farther for the LOST in this amazing hour of biblical prophecy.

I am constantly reminded of my own errors in sharing this topic in love with both Christians and the Lost. But is not GOD's SPIRIT one that fills us with peace...in the midst of the storm?

Detail heaped upon detail clouds the truth which, in analogy, Mrs. Evans missed and which many weaker vessels are missing...as well as self at times. We look upwards first and foremost from whence comes our help! The ever growing majority of prophecy across the board today -- without any indictment, criticism or condemnation of any here -- seemingly is getting louder and louder for me to turn my attention SIDEWAYS. "Look over here! See that! Be MORE prepared! Listen to this tape and start learning as much as you can!"

That doesnt bring me nor countless other believers any peace. EVERYONE IS WIRED DIFFERENTLY in the Body of CHRIST. So too then when I see people failing under the weight of the ever increasing amount of "crisis" preaching BECAUSE NO ONE POINTS BACK TO THE CROSS AND OUR HOPE WITH ENOUGH CLARITY AND ENCOURAGEMENT.

Maybe I am but a small number who witness the carnage left behind, who also got swept up in the tidal wave and chaotic swirls of prophetic fear. "But blessed are those and believe who have NOT seen and yet believe" JOhn 20:29 is a verse that applies in my life.

Though countless dont get it and need preached to, countless more DO get it and dont need every "detail" which is irrefutably based on visions and dreams are are subject to inaccuracies.

I love the BOdy of CHRIST and encourage both Self and all to weigh our words, to look for how others are reacting as we speak because we could easily cause our brother and sister to stumble with a clouded perspective that ALL need the shotgun/widespread/one message fits everyone I meet.

Thanks for everyone's feedback. Let us stay centered on the HOPE of our calling....not what we're being called from.


We read HIS commandment also is to be still and know that HE is GOD!"

S
sermonindex

The quote about the gates of hell not prevailing doesn't mean that the earth will go on for ever, or that evil won't continue to increase
Why does the LORD need to return? Is His Kingdom not established IN US? Will the Kingdom of God come by observation in Jerusalem? Will the Mount of Olives really separate and literal H20 flow through?

When Jesus said you must be born again, did He mean that you are to go back into your Mothers womb and be reborn? Of course not!
Then why are we taking the literal words and literally interpreting them? We are no different then Nicodemus with his question!

False teachers read in the Holy Bible about Gog and Magog and they automatically conclude it's got to be Russia because they are the "king of the north". Or the ships of Chittim must be China. Or a "Confirmed Covenant with many" must be a signed peace treaty with Israel.

Poppycock!! :-P

H
HIServant

Thank you for your feedback. My wisdom isnt HIS. Thus, I pray for interpretation and understanding for my own peace and devotions. Literal, Figurative, etc interpretations cannot be irrefutable in the wide majority of cases that several mainstream pastors, evangelists, prophets are stating it as such. As though the interpretation is good enough to tout as "Gospel Truth". When coupled with others "revelations" ... by many far more diligent in the faith than I...you have greater and greater degrees of seperation from HIS WORD.

Am I ready? Yes. Do I want others to be ready? Yes. Am I justified in paralyzing them with clearly unproveable points to the level of not witnessing to the lost or serving CHRIST.

No. That is contrary to HIS WORD. Let us serve in our gifts then with careful consideration. I can listen to reason after reason, commmentary after commentary and find that I've just spent 80-90% of my "devotional" time chasing content that cannot be proven.

So let us choose to bless others during that time to get them prepared...because at some point, the details become irrelevant. There will be HIS return, there will be more wars and more signs. How many and to what degree dont really add to HIS revealing that this will happen.

The Pharisees (no jab or indictment of any here) knew FAR more than us...and missed the boat completely. Their great study and attention to detail gained them nothing.

Since no man knows the hour of HIS return, let us pursue the Great Commission up till that moment and not elsewhere...for HIS glory.

I will cease posting on this and return to the poems. Thank you all for your feedback once again. Amen and amen.

P
Psalm73


HiServant wrote:

The only REAL PROOF IS THE WORD OF GOD. Show me differently. Thus,40 well known prophets "confirming" something as from GOD is suspect to me with the very mention of it.

I dont have all the answers but have realized through my many travels and many years...only the BIBLE is truth and if I cant point to a passage of scripture for DEFINITIVE answers...then what I am told by others cannot be more than "their version". Else I run to an fro...listening for what the prophets are saying and NOT to what GOD is speaking to me in a still small voice. That is the reality which is presently drawing many, less mature christians to follow the word of man and not of GOD.

Let's shed some reformation light on these prophets, for through covetousness making merchandise of many. It's not about my words, it's about the scripture that is presented and avoiding interpetations that are private, we study this text, the 1537 Thomas Matthew with modern text avaiable only at faithofGod.net.

Prophets have to preach according to the lines of Ezekiel and Jeremiah, instead of following men's doctrines and teaching for filthy lucre's sake.

Ezekiel 36 25 ¶ Then will I pour clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: Yea from all your uncleanness and from all your Idols shall I cleanse you.
26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put into you: As for that stoney heart, I will take it out of your body, and give you a fleshly heart.
27 I will give my spirit among you, and cause you to walk in my commandments, to keep my laws, and to fulfill them.
28 And so ye shall dwell in the land, that I gave to your forefathers, and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.


Tyndale was a man of God who translated the scripure in a time where men's commandments were easy to come by, and an actual person who understood the scriptures (a mystery) exactly. Actually, this website's preachers teach and preach men's doctrines.

Galations 1 10 ¶ Seek I now the favour of men, or of God? Other go I about to please men? If I studied to please men, I were not the servant of Christ.
11 I certify you brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me, was not after the manner of men,
12 neither received I it of man, neither was I taught it: but received it by the revelation of Jesus Christ. (1526 Tyndale)
Understand these scriptures, if another gospel you are carrying comes up preaching the commandments of men (which turn from the trueth)
, hold such a one accursed. Not me, examine me, see if I am carrying the trueth, because a lot of preachers teach men's precepts and people think they have of God, while ignorant of the scripture, either due to 1 poor bible version or lacking basic understanding 2 Under the blinding sensations of these preachers which understand not what they affirm. 3 Wilful disobedience after recieving the commandment, (neither be ye worshippers of idols I Cor 10:7)

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Compliments wrote:
Why does the LORD need to return? Is His Kingdom not established IN US?
Yes, of course; but that isn't the whole story. Despising - even denying - the physical in favour of the spiritual is the error of gnosticism.

Will the Kingdom of God come by observation in Jerusalem? Will the Mount of Olives really separate and literal H20 flow through?
Why not?

When Jesus said you must be born again, did He mean that you are to go back into your Mothers womb and be reborn? Of course not!
Then why are we taking the literal words and literally interpreting them? We are no different then Nicodemus with his question!
There is a big difference. If you take this attitude to its logical conclusion you would disbelieve that Jesus literally died and rose from the dead.

The main difference in this example is that it is clearly impossible to be physically born again from your mother's womb, while it is [u]by no means impossible[/u] for an earthquake to split the Mount of Olives, and water to gush out.

False teachers read in the Holy Bible about Gog and Magog and they automatically conclude it's got to be Russia because they are the "king of the north". Or the ships of Chittim must be China. Or a "Confirmed Covenant with many" must be a signed peace treaty with Israel.
How do you know that [i]they[/i] are the false teachers, and not those who have influenced you?

Poppycock!! :-P
Brother, it grieves me greatly that you are aligning yourself with those "scoffers" who Peter spoke of (2Peter 3)

[color=990000]3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,
4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us–ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But [i][b]the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.[/b][/i]
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 [i][b]Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness[/b][/i].[/color]

Jesus is coming again because the Bible says so!

And because it is necessary

1Cor 15:
[color=990000]22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ’s at his coming.
24 [i][b]Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.[/b][/i][/color]

Wasn't Jesus living in Peter and Paul by the Spirit? So why did they yet look forward to Jesus' return?

Has the "last enemy", death been destroyed yet?

Do you really think that the Lord would leave the earth in the state it is now?

Certainly some parts of Scripture are symbolic, or allowing only for a spiritual or figurative interpretation, but by no means all. Like the example you gave, most of these are plainly not to be taken literally. One could add others - Jesus is not a literal door for example, and He didn't invite the disciples to literally eat His body and blood!

But He really did die on the Cross, and really did rise, and is really coming back.

Many visionary writings (such as Revelation) that contain a lot of symbolism, still speak of literal physical events.

Do not mock, but seek the Lord. I believe that you have been seriously misled in these things.

in Him

Jeannette

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HIServant wrote:
Thank you for all your feedback. I may have missed my intended point but not by far. I know, as those who post here, what Scriptures say and agree that judgment and all that GOD shares regarding End times with us WILL come to pass.

I agree that we need to be prepared. Were my comments based on NOT wanting to hear of it? Not at all. My comments are to those who feel called to be prophets to be wary of their words and the way they state it. Death and life is in the power of the tongue...thus the spoken and written word as well.

That is so true!

HOwever, I review the sheer overload on multiple sites and venues such as radio and TV and there is little to no hope given. Only the damnation of all and no encouragement of CHRIST's hope in the message to build someone up...to encourage them to preach to the LOST with a greater fervency...which I now feel!
I'm surprised that you have seen and heard so many who preach thus. I would have thought they were in the minority! Most modern preachers seem to teach that a great revival is coming and that the whole world is going to be gained for the Lord, and that this will usher in His return.

Whereas the Bible says that Antichrist will appear first (2Thess 2).

But if you have mostly heard doom and gloom then it makes sense what you are saying.

To me, the best Biblical example of a true prophet who foretold disaster was Jeremiah. Because, when the disaster he warned of was upon them he foretold restoration!

He was stuck in prison for his prophesying of what was then happening, the Babylonian army was almost at the gates, and [i]he alone[/i] had a clear word of hope for the future!

I am reminded of the 400 prophets of Baal who spoke to Ahab what he wanted to hear. Only 1 spoke for GOD. Who are the prophets of Baal today?
The difference was that the false prophets prophesied what they thought the king wanted to hear - success, prosperity, everything will be OK!

I see your point, but that is maybe not a good example to illustrate it!

Does not satan array his messengers as messengers of light...yet disguising and end time message so that the result is not spiritual fear of GOD but physical fear of bombs, famine, disease, etc?
Yes, I see what you are saying. I haven't heard much of that sort of false prophecy personally, only the kind that panders to poeple's vanity and tells them they are OK, ("God thinks you are wonderful! He has an amazing plan for your life! He's going to use you powerfully and give you a worldwide ministry!" - that sort of thing) and don't need to repent.

...the BIBLE is truth and if I cant point to a passage of scripture for DEFINITIVE answers...then what I am told by others cannot be more than "their version". Else I run to an fro...listening for what the prophets are saying and NOT to what GOD is speaking to me in a still small voice. That is the reality which is presently drawing many, less mature christians to follow the word of man and not of GOD.
Yes, you are right...

The weaker christians, I am seeing daily, are falling under the weight of so much fear. That is not HIS SPIRIT.
Again, that is a new one on me, the kind of false prophecy that puts people in fear. Mostly I've heard the opposite, "Peace" Peace! when there is no peace".

My tears and my encouragements are for them.
I hear you brother.

Maybe the words the Lord spoke to Isaiah are relevant here (that time He did rescue His people from enemy threats)...

[color=990000]11 For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying,
12 Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid.
13 Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread.
14 And he shall be for a sanctuary...[/color]

Also Psalm 91.

Yes, evils are coming upon the earth, but we do not need to be afraid because HE is our hiding place in the storm.


in Him


Jeannette

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Yes, of course; but that isn't the whole story. Despising - even denying - the physical in favour of the spiritual is the error of gnosticism.
Gnosticism denies that Jesus even came in the flesh, I do not.

The Kingdom of God will not come by observation because Jesus said it wouldn't

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:Luke 17:21 Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
Very plain to me.

Regarding the River and the Mount of Olives, there is an exciting truth that surrounds this but sufficient to say that it's not literal H20.

How do you know that they are the false teachers, and not those who have influenced you?
The word of God will bear witness of itself. It's not partial but it all agrees together.

It's false teachers that have concocted a Pre, Mid, Post Tribulation Rapture theory. There is not a word of truth in it, yet many swear by it. I too swore by it and spread it's poison. Yes there will be tribulation but there will not be 3 and 1/2 or 7 years of tribulation unless the LORD Himself speaks a word to the Church like He said to the Church at Smyrna that they should receive tribulation ten days.

Brother, it grieves me greatly that you are aligning yourself with those "scoffers" who Peter spoke of (2Peter 3)
It grieves me likewise to see my Brothers and Sisters caught up in a fantasy, when the reality of God's Kingdom is in YOU, Sister.
Do not mock, but seek the Lord. I believe that you have been seriously misled in these things.
I am not mocking, nor scoffing. I am telling you the truth from a different perspective. Do you not think that I too was dumbfounded when I found out that I was deceived? This is a subject that I have little interest in, yet the LORD brings it to my attention. I am a seeker of truth. Does God give to those who are seeking Him in Spirit and Truth a stone? Do you not think for one moment that I have weighed this out and studied this out?

And by the way, I have not denied the coming of the LORD. I have only asked a question, "Why does the LORD need to come back".

What I am talking about is the Words that Jesus spoke, they are Spirit. As He said, "The words that I speak they are Spirit and Life".

Yes, Jesus died on a literal cross, but the literal cross is not the answer for us today. It's a symbol of death. We know what it represents, but the poor Catholics don't. They wear the cross, they have it in their homes, some have massive crosses in the back yard, yet that has nothing to do with what Jesus said when He said, "Take up your cross and follow me". He was speaking things concerning the Kingdom of God. He kept saying, that the Kingdom of God is liken unto this and that and the other.

Whatever happened to, "We walk by faith and not be sight"?

If I am deceived, then please pray for me. I really mean that, I want you to pray that I see the truth. Perhaps I may have missed it, perhaps I am deceived.

I am not interested in being right, "Let God be true and let every man be a liar"

I understand your concerns, and I appreciate it very much.

Sincerely in Christ

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For myself, i will ignore all talk and prophesy of endtimes until I cannot buy or sell without some kind of "mark of the beast." at that time Christians will need to work together collectively, sharing among ourselves the necessities of life, in order to survive. (but this is probably not going to happen in my lifetime) before that time i think those who make endtime predictions are spitting in the wind, or worse.

bub

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Hi Bro Compliments

Just one or two points for now (its late here)


Compliments wrote:
Yes, of course; but that isn't the whole story. Despising - even denying - the physical in favour of the spiritual is the error of gnosticism.
Gnosticism denies that Jesus even came in the flesh, I do not.
I’m sure you don’t, but if you spiritualise Scripture [i]at the expense of[/i] the literal and physical, this is the logical conclusion.

On what grounds do you decide which is spiritual and which is literal? [i]Why[/i] do you believe that Christ came in the flesh, but doubt if He will physically return?

Don't you think that any given Scripture can contain both spiritual and literal/physical truth? This does seem to be the problem here, as in many other cases of controversy. Someone sees one aspect of Truth and thinks that this is the only aspect. The Word of God has many layers of meaning. If we believe and proclaim one to the exclusion of others we are limiting His Truth.

Of course the Kingdom of God is within us. But His Kingdom is [i][b]also[/b][/i] coming on earth, because the King is coming back bodily, to destroy the works of the Evil One once and for all!

Why, because the Bible says so!

To deny one of these truths has to be error because it is less than the whole Truth.

Blessings

Jeannette

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bubbaguy wrote:
For myself, i will ignore all talk and prophesy of endtimes until I cannot buy or sell without some kind of "mark of the beast." at that time Christians will need to work together collectively, sharing among ourselves the necessities of life, in order to survive. (but this is probably not going to happen in my lifetime) before that time i think those who make endtime predictions are spitting in the wind, or worse.

bub

So why are you reading this thread? :-P (sorry, couldn't resist that one!)

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Matt 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Beyond clearly noted signs of endtimes in the Bible, like the mark of the beast, we should not trust any modern day prophesy. They may preach great revival earnestly and sound quite Christian; they may well walk on water and do all sorts of very convincing things.

The Bible has all the prophesy we need.

we have been warned.

bub

C
Compton

Bubba,

I actually agree with every syllable in your last post.

Scary! Is this a sign of the apocalypse?

MC

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How do you see interpret this verse?

2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.

M
murrcolr

I shared on another thread Prophetic credentials that I had a feeling of dread.

God's spirit spoke to mine this is what he said to me. 'Don't be scared about what the Devil will do be scared about what I'll do'

At the time I heard him speak I laughed as there is always joy when prayer is answered.

There are some things on this site that perplex me. Before I start I would like to point out that there are terrible times coming they will be hard to deal with. BUT THEY CAN BE DEALT WITH.

We all know the bablyon is going to fall. That does involve the system of finances. Please don't go and buy anymore books from people who claim they have found a new revelation about a finacial collapse it's not knew it's in the bible.

God is a jealous God he wants us all to himself and he'll get his way and there is no stopping it.

We have to see what God's plan is for his church what will God do. First of all God has to sort out his church. He must he can't bring judgement to this earth without having a people with the answers. Look at Noah God had a plan there.

The church will be like a Ark. Oh and don't listen to these people who say we are going to fly away before the tribulation. We are not going to fly away. Look at Jesus born a Jew in a Roman Empire did God spare him no. Look at Daniel a Jew in captivity in Babylon. Thrown into the Lion's Den.
.........WE ARE GOING TO STAND AND FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT WE WILL OVERCOME..........

People we are getting close to one of the times where God's people are going to shine brighter that we have ever shined. Yes there will be martyrs yes we will be rejected, shunned, mocked, tortured and beheaded but WE WILL OVERCOME. By the Grace of God we will.

That's what perplexs me there seems to be so much fear. We seem to be running scared.

Remember God's people God is with us......

We will overcome

C
Compton

Hi Murrcolr,

You touch on an undercurrent running through much of the revivalist prophetic movement that I would like to hear comments on.

Remember God's people God is with us......

Perhaps why there is so much fear lies in the very nature of revivalist objectives, which seeks to undermine personal confidence in the believer's position of security with God. I am not protesting it here, but I do want to point out it does have some dynamics. Igniting the psychological dynamite of revivalism is risky business, especially if we aren't waiting on the Spirit to light the fuse.

There is a strong imperative within revivalist preaching and prophecy for 'separation'--- come out from among her! The rub is that 'her' means not only the world but the majority of the church where God's people were supposed to be. The implication is that maybe God isn't with his people (ostensibly) afterall.

It should be noted that much end times prophecy is separatist by nature. While this is neither a bad or good thing per se, we should recognize that every separatist movement tends to be energized by a low regard for other groups, seeing their practice as impure or their intentions as corrupted. I do not mean any disrespect, but we should be clear headed enough to recognize that there is a strong separatist attitude among the members of Sermon Index. Many of us have come here seeking earnest fellowship because we have been disenchanted, if not disenfranchised from previously disappointing church experiences, ranging from prosperity charismaticism to formal fundamentalism.

This desire for an authentic fellowship is exciting, but one of the pitfalls of such fellowship is developing a private language and community around the theme that most Christians are deceived Christians.

To make matters worse, occasionally we'll turn the rhetorical weapons we have brandied for others upon one another. One member accusing another of being part of Babylon is not unheard of in this setting.

So this is why there is so much fear brother. It is not fear of going through poverty or war. It is fear of being selected by God for judgement for having failed to separate oneself radically enough from the parts of this worldly kingdom that are going to be destroyed. Indeed, there have been a few voices even in this forum who suggest that being a Christian in America is such an oxymoron that God is going to see this nation nuked not in-spite of the church, but because of her!

I did not notice the downside of being a separatist until I tried to find fellowship in a local church in Lancaster. It took me a couple months to realize that the brethren there I was unconsciously judging, were actually being more loving to me then I was to them.

Well, in any case...this is my explanation of why some here have fear of the end times. Perhaps they have walked into the force of their own indictments against the 'apostate church' and are feeling the cold wind of their own judgments. The circle of perfection is tightening, and the more introspective among us wonder if the standards we impose on others might also exclude us from God's grace.

Blessings,

MC

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God is a jealous God he wants us all to himself and he'll get his way and there is no stopping it.
Yes Yes Yes
Before I start I would like to point out that there are terrible times coming they will be hard to deal with. BUT THEY CAN BE DEALT WITH.
Amen
Oh and don't listen to these people who are NOT going to fly away before the tribulation.
"NOT" doesn't seem to belong in your sentence, as it doesn't make sense with the rest of your paragraph. Your saying that we are to be mindful of a pre tribulation rapture. But the rest of your paragraph says differently.

Or am I reading it wrong.

I agree with the bulk of your message, we are heading into a Whopper of a recession that is going to sweep the earth, for how long only God knows. God wants us to be ready for it and not let that day to take us unawares. It will be "an end of the world for many". The thing that will cause us to overcome is our love affair with Jesus Christ.

Thank you Murrclor for pointing that out.

M
murrcolr

Compliments said:

"NOT" doesn't seem to belong in your sentence, as it doesn't make sense with the rest of your paragraph. Your saying that we are to be mindful of a pre tribulation rapture. But the rest of your paragraph says differently.

Sorry I am not the greatest at English. It should say Oh and don't listen to these people who say we going to fly away before the tribulation. The teaching of being raptured before the great tribulation is lie from Hell.

We will go through the tribulation.
------------------------------------------
Compliments said:

I agree with the bulk of your message, we are heading into a Whopper of a recession that is going to sweep the earth, for how long only God knows. God wants us to be ready for it and not let that day to take us unawares. It will be "an end of the world for many". The thing that will cause us to overcome is our love affair with Jesus Christ.

What I am saying is get your eyes of the recession. Stop chasing all the nonsense that is out there. There is a man I heard on TV yesterday. How to avoid the up and coming recession. How some men will make lots of money in it find out how in my book that I'll give to you for love gift of $20.

When God pulls down the babylon system it won't be a recession it will be a total collapse.
Look at the things that can cause fear.

Global warning
Recession
Terriost Attack
Russia Rearming
Health scares (Chicken Flu)
Hurricanes
Torandos
Eartquakes
Wars
Tidal waves

Jesus warned us of this time. Then you get men and there are some on here that go and spread panic why do we latch onto the fear. Why do we worry about these things. Why are we so scared. Is it because we are not fully sold out to God.


One man said that he stayed up all night to pray to find out the end of America. What are you doing. What about your neighbour the guy you work with. The woman on the bus. The bum you walk past on the street.

Are you just scared that Gods going to burn you up as well. That he is going to damage our life style.

To help you to understand when and who will pull down the Babylon sysytem and cause the collapse.

Rev 17 v 16 And the ten horns which thou sawest, and the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and shall burn her utterly with fire.

Is the antichrist around has he been revealed no not yet. To start with the Harlot is on the back of the beast. The beast must set up his image he must have a way of causing people to get his mark.

God has put it into his heart to do it.

Rev 17 v 17 For God did put in their hearts to do his mind, and to come to one mind, and to give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God should be accomplished.

Rev 17 v 14 These shall war against the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings; and they also shall overcome that are with him, called and chosen and faithful.

The Lamb shall overcome and they also that are with him.

Come on God's people let's press into God. Let us be done with this nonsense. The time is not a time to run scared. It's time to seek God's Face. It's time to humble ourselves. It's time to sell out completly to his divine plan and purpose for your life.

God is going to raise up a people, will you be one of them. Before the beast is revealed God will have a people who will live challenge and confront the powers of darkness.

Or will you give to fear and recieve the Mark of the Beast.

M
murrcolr

by Compton on 2008/1/11 20:44:41

Hi Murrcolr,

You touch on an undercurrent running through much of the revivalist prophetic movement that I would like to hear comments on.

Quote:

Remember God's people God is with us......
---------------------------------------------------
Anything that starts to get eliteist is in danger of turning into a cult.

When I mentioned Remember God's people God is with us. I implied that if you are a part of the body of Christ then God is with you. Not just the members here. If you do a search and have the right words this forum will come up in google.

Sermon Index has been a great blessing to me. I go away to work for a month at a time. Where I'll be behind a wall and not allowed to leave without a armed guard. So it's not a good idea to go church with all the guys with guns. So I stay in my compound listening to the sermons on here. I can listen up to 3 a day.

I try to take on board what they teach and learn from them. Any man or woman who listens to the sermons should not only be listening to the words they are speaking but should allow the spirit that is behind that words to impact there life. If we don't then we become a clanging cymbal.

The first sermon I ever listened to on here was Duncan Campbells testimony. I had been fasting and praying for a great many days for a answer to a problem I was facing. It was a great problem to me it looked like it would cost me everything I had. This thought came into my head what makes a Great man of God Great. So onto the internet to search. I found this sight and Duncan's testimony I downloaded it onto my IPOD and of I went for a 7 hour flight. In the plane it was dark I started to listen to the message. I heard Duncan Campbell say. Go for God whatever it costs.

I had to get out my seat and run to the bathroom. I was in the toilet holding onto the sink. God I'll do it Father but help me I cried.
For one month that is all I could pray crying and weeping before God. I knew that situation I had been praying about had been dealt with. The problem was with me I had to bow the knee and I did. I got home and on that first day home everything just fell into place. I was there but it like everything had been set up perfectly by God I just had to do my part. I went for God though it might cost me everything and you know what it cost me nothing. I tell you people God is truly great and worthy of all our praise.

So whats my point in that ramble. If we truly listen and absorb the spirit that is behind the message our lives will be totally change. We will we live the message. We won't just say the great quotes that great men of God said. We will be the great quotes.

When I did not know God and I sure there are others here who watched movies and heard a great quotes and would copy it. I can't and should not say what some of them are. Are we still doing the same things we did in the world but with diffrent words. I'll let the little quote that I have as a signature challenge you.

C
Compton

Thank you Murrcolr for your testimony. The Gethsamane moment of submission in your life you described was challenging and encouraging.

I obviously wasn't assigning any implications to your post or ideas. I didn't think you were drawing lines in your post at all...in fact just the opposite; your position seemed quite gracious and inclusive to all Christians. I was only attempting to provide my answer to that one question.

Blessings brother,

MC


C
Compton

I tell you people God is truly great and worthy of all our praise.

Had cause to reread your testimony once more. It was even better the second time. I sometimes wonder, why the negative receives so much of our attention and time. I skip over these costly and precious testimonies not only in the forum, but also missing the blessings in my own life. Perhaps we think were here to fix one another. What the Lord did in you is the only fix there is. And I am just a distraction without such a testimony of grace also.

from Psalm 9.
I will praise you, O LORD, with all my heart; I will tell of all your wonders... that I may declare your praises in the gates of the Daughter of Zion and there rejoice in your salvation....Arise, O LORD, let not man triumph; let the nations be judged in your presence... Strike them with terror, O LORD; let the nations know they are but men.

Blessings brother,

MC

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sermonindex

Matt 24:24 "For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Beyond clearly noted signs of endtimes in the Bible, like the mark of the beast, we should not trust any modern day prophesy. They may preach great revival earnestly and sound quite Christian; they may well walk on water and do all sorts of very convincing things.

The Bible has all the prophesy we need.

we have been warned.

bub


Compton wrote:
Bubba,

I actually agree with every syllable in your last post.

Scary! Is this a sign of the apocalypse?

MC

Me too! Except for a small point, which may not even be a real disagreement...

The Bible has all the prophecy we need.
Yes it has. However, this doesn't mean that there is no place for genuine prophecy any more, but genuine prophecy will merely [i]apply[/i] the principles of Scripture, not add to it. Or maybe like Agabus in acts, who was a true prophet and gave specific warnings (in the Biblical examples) of things that would affect individuals or the Church.

Hope you agree :-)

Jeannette

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Compliments wrote:
How do you see interpret this verse?
2 Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
Hmmm, interesting question. I understand how you must see this verse, but it has to be looked at in context.

[color=990000]12 ¶ For we commend not ourselves again unto you, but give you occasion to glory on our behalf, that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.
13 For whether we be beside ourselves, it is to God: or whether we be sober, it is for your cause.
14 For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead:
15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again.
16 ¶ [u] Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more[/u].
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.[/color]

The obvious meaning is that we now have spiritual understanding, so have no need to discern anyone merely "after the flesh" (i.e. from a human standpoint). As the Lord said in 1Samuel 16, when Samuel was going to anoint one of Jesse's sons as king:

[color=990000]7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.[/color]

This is the context of the 2Corinthians verse - I'm not sure if it can be stretched to have the meaning you would apply to it. It [i]is[/i] a stretch because the passage has nothing whatsoever to do with Christ's return.

Paul is saying that, [i]because we are new creations in Christ[/i], we don't look at things from a human point of view any more, but from God's viewpoint, a spiritual understanding. Therefore, we know Christ spiritually, even though He wasn't with them "in the flesh" any more.

When He first came "in the flesh" that was the only way [i]anyone[/i] could know Him, (unless given special revelation from God), and even the disciples didn't understand Him at all! But now He has come in the Spirit we can know Him in a far deeper and more intimate way.

There's also an echo of 1Samuel 16 in verse 12 of 2Cor 5 Paul speaks of those who value only autward appearance, following attractive preachers who tell them what they want to hear. [color=990000]...that ye may have somewhat to answer them which glory in appearance, and not in heart.[/color]

Remember, one of the themes of 2Corinthians is Paul's claim to apostleship, even though his enemies despised him because his appearance seemed to them to be insignificant. This is probably what he had in mind in this verse.

Nowhere in the 2Corinthians passage is there any hint re Christ's return because that isn't what Paul is talking about here! However, other writings of his show that he indeed believed that Jesus would return bodily at the resurrection (1Cor 15, 1Thess 4 etc).

They talk about house hunting, that it's "Location, location, location" that you have to consider. In the Bible it's [b]"Context, context, context"[/b]. You can only make 2Cor 5:16 mean that Jesus isn't going to return bodily if you wrest it completely out of context.

Indeed, even when He returns we will [i]still[i] not know Him any more "after the flesh" because His Spirit dwells within us, and we will have no need of physical recognition and no longer be tempted to judge in a human fashion.

As Paul says in 1Cor 15 there is a natural body and there is a spiritual body. Jesus' body after the Resurrection was physical - solid enough to be touched and to eat food - but it wasn't the same kind of body He had before. No longer would He suffer or die; He could go from one place to another in an instant and pass through locked doors. He could hide from outward eyes when He chose. Yet on the Emmaus Road the disciples said "their hearts burned within them" as He talked. Even though they didn't recognise Him, their spirits knew Him. Just as John the Baptist knew while still in his mother's womb!

This is the kind of body, "like unto His glorious body" (Philippians 3:21) that we shall also be granted at the general resurrection of the dead! Fleshly bodies indeed, but so very much more...

Those were examples of spiritual knowing long before Paul wrote of it. But until Pentecost it was only granted to very few.

Excuse the rather long reply, but I've benefited greatly from studying this, having never thought of it in quite that way before.

Thanks

In Him

Jeannette


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murrcolr wrote:
I shared on another thread Prophetic credentials that I had a feeling of dread.

God's spirit spoke to mine this is what he said to me. 'Don't be scared about what the Devil will do be scared about what I'll do'

At the time I heard him speak I laughed as there is always joy when prayer is answered.

There are some things on this site that perplex me. Before I start I would like to point out that there are terrible times coming they will be hard to deal with. BUT THEY CAN BE DEALT WITH.

We all know the bablyon is going to fall. That does involve the system of finances. Please don't go and buy anymore books from people who claim they have found a new revelation about a finacial collapse it's not knew it's in the bible.

God is a jealous God he wants us all to himself and he'll get his way and there is no stopping it.

We have to see what God's plan is for his church what will God do. First of all God has to sort out his church. He must he can't bring judgement to this earth without having a people with the answers. Look at Noah God had a plan there.

The church will be like a Ark. Oh and don't listen to these people who say we are going to fly away before the tribulation. We are not going to fly away. Look at Jesus born a Jew in a Roman Empire did God spare him no. Look at Daniel a Jew in captivity in Babylon. Thrown into the Lion's Den.
.........WE ARE GOING TO STAND AND FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT WE WILL OVERCOME..........

People we are getting close to one of the times where God's people are going to shine brighter that we have ever shined. Yes there will be martyrs yes we will be rejected, shunned, mocked, tortured and beheaded but WE WILL OVERCOME. By the Grace of God we will.

That's what perplexs me there seems to be so much fear. We seem to be running scared.

Remember God's people God is with us......

We will overcome

AMEN Murrey!

Agree 100%

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Compton wrote:
Hi Murrcolr,

You touch on an undercurrent running through much of the revivalist prophetic movement that I would like to hear comments on.

Remember God's people God is with us......
Perhaps why there is so much fear lies in the very nature of revivalist objectives, which seeks to undermine personal confidence in the believer's position of security with God. I am not protesting it here, but I do want to point out it does have some dynamics. Igniting the psychological dynamite of revivalism is risky business, especially if we aren't waiting on the Spirit to light the fuse.

There is a strong imperative within revivalist preaching and prophecy for 'separation'--- come out from among her! The rub is that 'her' means not only the world but the majority of the church where God's people were supposed to be. The implication is that maybe God isn't with his people (ostensibly) afterall.

It should be noted that much end times prophecy is separatist by nature. While this is neither a bad or good thing per se, we should recognize that every separatist movement tends to be energized by a low regard for other groups, seeing their practice as impure or their intentions as corrupted. I do not mean any disrespect, but we should be clear headed enough to recognize that there is a strong separatist attitude among the members of Sermon Index. Many of us have come here seeking earnest fellowship because we have been disenchanted, if not disenfranchised from previously disappointing church experiences, ranging from prosperity charismaticism to formal fundamentalism.

This desire for an authentic fellowship is exciting, but one of the pitfalls of such fellowship is developing a private language and community around the theme that most Christians are deceived Christians.

To make matters worse, occasionally we'll turn the rhetorical weapons we have brandied for others upon one another. One member accusing another of being part of Babylon is not unheard of in this setting.

So this is why there is so much fear brother. It is not fear of going through poverty or war. It is fear of being selected by God for judgement for having failed to separate oneself radically enough from the parts of this worldly kingdom that are going to be destroyed. Indeed, there have been a few voices even in this forum who suggest that being a Christian in America is such an oxymoron that God is going to see this nation nuked not in-spite of the church, but because of her!

I did not notice the downside of being a separatist until I tried to find fellowship in a local church in Lancaster. It took me a couple months to realize that the brethren there I was unconsciously judging, were actually being more loving to me then I was to them.

Well, in any case...this is my explanation of why some here have fear of the end times. Perhaps they have walked into the force of their own indictments against the 'apostate church' and are feeling the cold wind of their own judgments. The circle of perfection is tightening, and the more introspective among us wonder if the standards we impose on others might also exclude us from God's grace.

Blessings,

MC

Hi MC

What you say is very true, and a real searching challenge.

...That's why I find it strange not to have a local church any more. The only time I went to one that seemed might be right, the Lord gave me a rap on the knuckles for not waiting for Him!

Yet it's seems He's dealing with things in my life that are in some measure separating me from Him and from the Body. He's dealing with them by [i]separation[/i]!

Seems crazy, doesn't it! I wonder if until we become truly "separated" unto Him, we can't be one in Him.

But that's a different kind of separation from the wrong attitude of superiority, that we can so easily have, over other Christians and groups.

That's been a temptation for me too, but it seems He's getting me to a place where I'm so obviously not superior that I can't kid myself any more!

Maybe finding a "near-perfect" local church at this stage would spoil that!

Thank you for that post.

In Him

Jeannette

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Compton wrote:
Thank you Murrcolr for your testimony. The Gethsamane moment of submission in your life you described was challenging and encouraging.

I obviously wasn't assigning any implications to your post or ideas. I didn't think you were drawing lines in your post at all...in fact just the opposite; your position seemed quite gracious and inclusive to all Christians. I was only attempting to provide my answer to that one question.

Blessings brother,

MC

AMEN to that - what a challenge!

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n the Bible it's "Context, context, context"
I know Jeanette, I am not stupid. I only copied and pasted this one verse to HIGHLIGHT this one verse. I could have copied and pasted the whole chapter, and I did read it in it's context. I thought surely everyone has bibles galore to look the rest up in it's contexts. I have said in many threads, I do not just use one verse to build a teaching on, the cults do that. That verse must agree with the whole as well as the part. Verse 15, 16 and 17 are in it's proper context.

Thank you for your contextual letter.

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Compliments wrote:
n the Bible it's "Context, context, context"
I know Jeanette, I am not stupid. I only copied and pasted this one verse to HIGHLIGHT this one verse. I could have copied and pasted the whole chapter, and I did read it in it's context. I thought surely everyone has bibles galore to look the rest up in it's contexts. I have said in many threads, I do not just use one verse to build a teaching on, the cults do that. That verse must agree with the whole as well as the part. Verse 15, 16 and 17 are in it's proper context.

Thank you for your contextual letter.

Sorry, think I've offended you. I know you aren't stupid, but you did give the impression that you wanted to use the verse to prove that Christ will not return bodily. And that would have meant missing the context.

Maybe you didn't mean that...

So what do you think the verse means?

Brother, I have great respect for you and in no way meant to imply that you are stupid. Please forgive me.

Indeed I had never really looked at this passage from that angle before, and it was a blessing to study it and ponder on what it really did mean.

Yours in Him

Jeannette

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Brother, I have great respect for you and in no way meant to imply that you are stupid. Please forgive me.
Someday they will make these forums with a emotion. I wasn't offended at all. No apology is necessary, but I do appreciate the gesture.

You should have no respect for those whom you think to be in error. Compassion yes, a strong and loving hand yes, but not respect. The scriptures tells us not even to be in fellowship with those who walk disorderly. Evil communications corrupt good manners. Evil is anything that is not of the Truth.

Indeed I had never really looked at this passage from that angle before, and it was a blessing to study it and ponder on what it really did mean.
And I too have pondered it with you.

Lets ponder some more. 8-)

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I really did think you were offended. Mostly because I know what I can be like when in "lecturing mode" :-(

A (good!) friend once said: "Sometimes you coma across as a bit of a know-all, but you're quite humble really!"

OUCH!

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Compliments wrote:
You should have no respect for those whom you think to be in error. Compassion yes, a strong and loving hand yes, but not respect. The scriptures tells us not even to be in fellowship with those who walk disorderly. Evil communications corrupt good manners. Evil is anything that is not of the Truth.
Don't you mean "no respect for the [i]beliefs[/i] of those you believe to be in error"?

I do believe you are somewhat in error, (but not on the absolute basics of faith), but you don't "walk disorderly", nor seek to get a following for your beliefs or manipulate others into accepting them. Neither do you attempt to lead any astray with writings that are not Scripture.

Just looked up the word translated "disorderly", it means, according to Strong's:

[i][b]1 disorderly, out of ranks (often so of soldiers). 2 irregular, inordinate, immoderate pleasures. 3 deviating from the prescribed order or rule. Additional Information: Used in Greek society of those who did not show up for work.[/b][/i]

Mmmm no, I don't think so :-)

in Him

Jeannette

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....you don't "walk disorderly", nor seek to get a following for your beliefs or manipulate others into accepting them. Neither do you attempt to lead any astray with writings that are not Scripture.
My book must have been open, you've read me quite well, Sister.

A (good!) friend once said: "Sometimes you come across as a bit of a know-all, but you're quite humble really!"
I hear ya!

Though we can't wish things away, but I wish that I hadn't have learned anything save Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Ecclesiastes 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; [b]and much study is a weariness of the flesh[/b].

Sigh :-(

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Compliments wrote:
....you don't "walk disorderly", nor seek to get a following for your beliefs or manipulate others into accepting them. Neither do you attempt to lead any astray with writings that are not Scripture.
My book must have been open, you've read me quite well, Sister.

A (good!) friend once said: "Sometimes you come across as a bit of a know-all, but you're quite humble really!"
I hear ya!

Though we can't wish things away, but I wish that I hadn't have learned anything save Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Ecclesiastes 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; [b]and much study is a weariness of the flesh[/b].

Sigh :-(

I'm weary too, (it is gone 1am here!)

Let's return to the "simplicity that is in Christ"...

But then what would we have to discuss and debate? ;-)

With the Bible, it's not so much not to study but to study rightly. I [i]will[/i] keep on getting into the intellectual approach, even when trying to describe [i]spiritual[/i] things!

Bless you and goodnight.

And to everyone else out there

Jeannette

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