Joel Osteen claims on Fox News that Mormons are Christians too...

I believe in miracles.

When I am placed in a civilian detention camp, I believe that I could be roomies with Joel. I will ask him if he would like me to bribe the guard in to getting us a copy of "Your Best Life Now".

it appears to me that either he is incredibly ignorant, incredibly gullible, or incredibly deceptive.

I like the use of the word 'incredibly' here.

Brother, I've pondered this for a while. I kinda hope it is one of the first two. He's a family man and there's no doubt his ministry does a lot of good work around the world. He seems to court popularity with the world though. He's 'everybody's favorite pastor'.

The verses that come to mind are Matthew 7v13-15

[i]13Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.[/i]

'few there be that find it'. That's quite scary, but it's not going to change. These megachurches contradict this. Their ministry appeals to our flesh nature (not all though).

Wolf in sheep's clothing he may be. To state that Mormons are Christians is to deceive the world. No doubt about it. Their doctrine is from the pit.

Other verses that come to mind are 2 Timothy 3v12-14

[i]12Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.

13But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

14But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;[/i]

Wow, the Bible really sums it up doesn't it. I just pray one day he'll see his error and have the courage to tell his congregation. What a witness that may be.

Joel would probably argue that he interprets scripture different to me (which he does) and that's his right. There's a lot of good people in his congregation though who aren't getting fed proper doctrine (imho) and it's tragic to think of the souls that may be lost.

I want to give him the benefit of the doubt though and will do. Many have told me I'm too soft because I do this, but I just feel we must be extremely careful in questioning these people. They may in fact be God's people, but perhaps just in a state of disobedience.

To know the truth is a wonderful born again privilege and we must use this discernment wisely. I've said before on this site that there was strong, vociferous reeling against the Roman Catholic Church here in Northern Ireland. Scripturally it was correct, but a fierce, bitter 'war' ensued and we now have generations who have bitterness bred into them. i.e. I feel it backfired horrifically. I know this topic is not particularly relevant to this thread, but it just makes me very wary of the best way of handling opposition to false doctrine. Grace should be at the forefront.

David

You know what's funny is all this "exposure" everyone speaks of it's like free advertising for the Church I feel we will need the old Astrodome soon the way it's growing go figure, by the way why always Pastor Joel "all the time" here? read my signature line. I tell you what, I will meet you half way you find me another Church in Houston that the Pastor teaches flawless gospel I will change Churches "You have my Blessing on finding that".

Look for all you that continue to expose Pastor Joel faults why not expose you own along with his, You know I have said this before and I will say it once again that I will "never" leave Lakewood Church if you knew my testimony and how I ended up there you "might" understand but I doubt it, so if anyone is thinking there "exposing" of my Pastor will ever change my mind please don't hold your breath. We have "some" of the most unforgiving so called Christians here that just continue to stir not "sincerely" expose it's unreal, I am sure Jesus would do the same thing right? yea.

If all you exposers used your time to be more valuable way for Gods kingdom he would probably Bless you so much with all the good things to do for his Kingdom you would not even have time to get bored and dig up stuff. I know you will never understand this because folks the continually waste their time degrading folks instead of praying for them probably are not the kind that would understand, but trust me one day you will be dealt the same in life folks will expose and degrade you my guess this would fall under you "will" reap what you sow, I did not say that or Pastor Osteen but God did.

Look you better think God "if you are a Christian" you don't have a microphone hooked up to you for the world to hear everything you say, because if you did I am sure you would never say anything bad again about anyone unless maybe your a Politician they do it all the time.
I think that people have gotten so caught up in certain of their ideas being “true” or “right” that they have lost the most true and right ideas of all, that we can find truth in many of the famous pastors in America if we would only take off our critical lenses for one minute.

Do you give God a chance to work in your life? Or do you expect microwaved, freeze-dried, instant results? well if you do why not give "God" a chance to work in Pastors Joel's life.
How would you like it if you and your spouse were having some serious problems and you were both praying for God to mend or work out your relationship problems, but in the mist of your prayers you have your buddy's telling you, man that girl is a nut case did you hear what she told so and so you need to find you another woman, this is the same thing you are trying to tell me as I keep my Pastor in prayer, look your a so Christian and love God and he is your Lord and savior and you trust him right? well why in the heck don't you trust him to help Pastor Joel? I will never figure that out your like the Christian at the buffet, I will take a little of this and some of that, well hopefully Jesus will not treat your life as a buffet and give you a little of this and a little of that when he really wants to Bless your socks off, good Lord folks give God a chance don't try and be God.

davym wrote:
I just pray one day he'll see his error and have the courage to tell his congregation. What a witness that may be.
David

David this is the attitude of a real man of God to do just this, you have a sweet spirit and a total understanding of how Prayer can work I can see that, please do the Christian thing and keep Pastor Joel in prayer and don't let the nay sayers lead you let God lead you.
God Bless
Mr. Bill

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Instead giving evidence of Joel's teachings to show us that we may be wrong about him, you turn it into a personal thing against us.
Krispy

Ok I will answer this for you, but my guess is you will not understand but I will say it anyway. Look I have given my Pastor to "GOD" through prayer to work out and God don't need "any" of my help in exposing either the Pro's or the Con's of Pastor Joel, I know you won't understand this.

KrispyKrittr wrote:

David this is the attitude of a real man of God to do just this, you have a sweet spirit and a total understanding of how Prayer can work I can see that, please do the Christian thing and keep Pastor Joel in prayer and don't let the nay sayers lead you let God lead you.

So can I assume that you're saying this is not my attitude? How would you know this?

Krispy

No! I was just speaking in general nothing personal at all you know better than that. :-)

KrispyKrittr wrote:
As your brother I feel the need to warn you that your defensive posture when Osteen is mentioned smacks of "cult of personality".
Krispy

Thanks Brother I am glad you warned me because I would have never known put some things in writing.
I sincerely appreciate your warning, but should I listen to you or God? God is telling me to hang in there that he is still working on pastor Joel, now krispy is telling me to leave that nut house, well lets see I will flip a coin what should I do? :-(

Look for all you that continue to expose Pastor Joel faults why not expose you own along with his,

Fair point brother. I've plenty of faults.

Can I ask you Mr BillPro. Are you agreeing with Joel's stance that Mormons are Christians? Would you promote their doctrine to further the cause of Christ? or if given the opportunity on national tv would you gracefully point out that you don't believe you can be saved by works (probably wouldn't get aired though). I've never had this chance, but Osteen had and he missed it.

Ephesians 2:8-10 (KJV)

[i]8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.[/i]

why not give "God" a chance to work in Pastors Joel's life.

Another fair point, but if what you are saying is that he is immature in the faith then I'd question whether he should be on a platform leading a massive congregation and being broadcast worldwide.

What I say won't change any of that though and I hope and pray that you'll continue to grow and be blessed at Lakewood

God Bless

D

By the way. I have to admit that I went to see Joel when he came to Belfast. £12 ($22) I think it was. He and his family are lovely people. Please don't get me wrong. And please don't let this thread become a bickering ping pong match. That's an age old problem that destroys our Christian unity.

I'm sorry if I've offended anybody.

Remember, God will not go into anybody's little box. That's for sure.

davym wrote:
Can I ask you Mr BillPro. Are you agreeing with Joel's stance that Mormons are Christians? Would you promote their doctrine to further the cause of Christ? or if given the opportunity on national tv would you gracefully point out that you don't believe you can be saved by works (probably wouldn't get aired though). I've never had this chance, but Osteen had and he missed it.

Another fair point, but if what you are saying is that he is immature in the faith then I'd question whether he should be on a platform leading a massive congregation and being broadcast worldwide.

What I say won't change any of that though and I hope and pray that you'll continue to grow and be blessed at Lakewood

God Bless

D

David maybe I am wrong here in saying that I should not be commenting either way while I have my pastor in prayer but I don't understand is this not the right thing to do? I have always been taught since I started going to Church back in 1958 that when you give things to the Lord to work out you give him 100% not 99& and you take the other 1% and help God.

I have Pastor Joel in prayer and I should not be commenting at all really God really does not need my help does he? David have you "ever" said anything you regretted and wished you could have back? my guess is you have "many" times in your life we all do, but hopefully if and when you do, you ask God to forgive you through Prayer and if your saved and have trusted Jesus as you Lord and savor he will forgive you.

If some here have such a desire or calling as they would say to expose Pastor Joel the Bible says "confront" him first this is the first Biblical step, and if your not taking the steps the Word says to take, in my opinion you just blowing hot air.

Be a man or woman of God and take the steps God says to take if you have an issue with someone and if you don't know what these scriptures are well read my signature line. In my opinion and I am sure in Gods also, if your putting the cart before the horse in scriptures, now your at the scripture buffet table I will take this scripture and that one and no I don't won't that one.

edit: David maybe this will help,

Mat 18:15-17 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. {16} "But if he will not hear you, take with you one or two more, that 'by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.' {17} "And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector."

(1) To maintain peace in the body of Christ (Eph. 4:1-3). Whenever there is friction and turmoil in the body it hinders people from entering into worship and receiving from God's Word. It hinders people from coming to Christ, creates an uninviting atmosphere for visitors, and can even grieve the Holy Spirit (Eph. 4:30-32).

(2) So Satan cannot gain advantage over us (2 Cor. 2:10-11). For our own spiritual well-being, we must be quick to resolve our differences with brethren and forgive. Satan can hinder our spiritual life, and even deceive us into apostasy, through harbored bitterness or unforgiveness (Matt. 18:35).

(3) To restore a Fallen Brother (Gal. 6:1). Christians must make every attempt to restore brethren who fall into sin. Especially when the transgression has been committed against you personally, your love for your brother's spiritual well-being demands that you confront the brother so that he might be reconciled to God.

Point taken Mr BillPro.

Hiding behind the keyboard I guess you could say. I'm sure he's well aware of the opposition to his ministry. I'll maybe just leave it.

davym wrote:
...continue to grow and be blessed at Lakewood

Dear David, may I ask you..

Are you serious with the Scriptures? Are you deadly serious and in agreement that what the word of God says and declares is the truth?

Have you received the gospel lightly or you have entered the strait gate? Brother, have you believed in a sugar gospel or are you walking the narrow way, the way that is "through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God."?

Are you walking the way of suffering, that you may reign one day with Him?

Brother, if the answers of these questions are yes, then how can you say that someone can grow and be blessed* under preaching which is enemy of the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ? Under preaching of another gospel, not the Gospel of the Bible, but gospel of demons? Dear David, when you read 2 Tim. 4:1-5 what the gentle voice of the Spirit is whispering to your heart?

Brother, is this hard word?

*Some translations are translating the word blessed into happy. That's not true. You can be happy one hour or one year and sing and clap and jump, but you cannot be blessed, to be blessed is a spiritual state.

Tears_of_joy wrote:
Dear David, may I ask you..

Are you serious with the Scriptures? Are you deadly serious and in agreement that what the word of God says and declares is the truth?

Or we could put a spin on this:
Dear Tears, may I ask you..

Are you serious with the Scriptures? Are you deadly serious and in agreement that what the word of God says and declares is the truth?

If so well follow what the scripture say in sequence if you have an issue with someone
Mat 18:15-17 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. have you done this? if not your not serious with "your" scriptures, that bottom line.

tears you have an issue with Pastor Joel? well go tell him privately or you not following the scriptures your at the scripture buffet table.

If so well follow what the scripture say in sequence if you have an issue with someone
Mat 18:15-17 "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. have you done this? if not your not serious with "your" scriptures, that bottom line.

Mr Bill. instead of repent and see all of this as a mercy of God given to you, you are continuing following and not just that, but defending false teacher.

And you are not stopping here, you even try to spread fear in other members (as to David) and now to me, quoting Scriptures and twisting them in your way.

Mr.Bill I will not answer you to your question, because probably [b]hundreds[/b] of times you have been warned in love and you have been warned strongly about the issue of false teachers that are presenting another gospel and what Bible says about that. But instead to repent and humble yourself under the authority of the word of God you are continuing more and more hardening your heart. There is a mercy and repairing, but you must respond to that, you must repent, you must humble under the authority of the scriptures. There is no other way. This is not playing games, singing songs for deeper sleep or fables.

2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Well, I do understand. But I believe that scripturally your position is wrong.
Krispy

Well "maybe" wrong scripturally but The Bible says "If you love someone... you will always believe in him, always expect the best of him" (1 Cor. 13:7. The Living Bible)

Tears_of_joy wrote:
and now to me, quoting Scriptures and twisting them in your way.

Yes I know I hold a patent for that here,:-( what you would like for me to do is quit praying for my Pastor and leave the Church that would make you happy right? well my job is to make God happy not man. :-(

By the way you only "TWIST" scriptures if they don't say what you are saying they say does not Mat 18:15-17 "SAY" "Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone? Thats the way I read it.

Tears_of_joy wrote:

Mr Bill. instead of repent and see all of this as a mercy of God given to you, you are continuing following and not just that, but defending false teacher.

You are playing God here in my opinion, and by the way I am not defending anyone, I have said many times here I am praying for my Pastor if thats defending him well call it what you must. In my opinion since you have not followed the scriptures in "sequence" and went and told Pastor Joel you might be the one that need to be repenting.

KrispyKrittr wrote:
I am not "offended" by Joel. He has not sinned against me..
Krispy

Well if he has not sinned or sinned against you why are we even talking about him? Lord have mercy we flip flop here more than CNN.

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Bill, when scripture speaks about going to the offender privately it is not referring to this issue about Joel.
Krispy

Answer me this do you have an issue with Pastor Joel? if so this is exactly what the scripture is talking about, how can this not be and issue with someone is an issue with someone were does God leave out an issue with Joel Osteen?

If a fellow Christian has sinned or brought an offense against you, Jesus said for you to first go to the offending party, confront them with the offense, and keep the matter private between yourselves. Remember, the objective is to not merely to seek justice for a violation against us, but to seek "reconciliation" between our brother, and his restoration to a right relationship with God.

Why is the matter to be first kept private between you two? Because our love for our brother requires it. If we are sincerely committed to love for our brethren as Jesus commands (John 13:34), then even if a brother has sinned against us or has done us wrong, we would not want to hinder his restoration by damaging his reputation within the body. If this person's transgression against you is circulated within the body, but later he repents, many in the body will have already judged this brother and the accusations will have damaged their opinion of him. By spreading our accusation against an offending party, it builds a consensus against them and makes it difficult, if not nearly impossible, to restore that person to the body should they repent and desire to make things right.

Hi MrBillPro, Many blessings to you.

Who do you consider to be a false profit, if any in this day and age?

If you do consider someone to be a false profit, should we follow what the Bible says about how to deal with a false profit?

If there are known false profits in todays age, how should we deal with them if not based on biblical teachings?

Thanks in advance for your time answering these.

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Because you can offer no defense for what he has said, you throw down a smoke screen to prevent us from discussing it. Thats a really bad defense, and most folks except you can see it for what it is.
Krispy.

I am sorry Brother I did not know or consider "Prayer" a smoke screen but you have every right to call it that.

MrBillPro wrote:
Yes I know I hold a patent for that here,:-( what you would like for me to do is quit praying for my Pastor and leave the Church that would make you happy right? well my job is to make God happy not man. :-(

Mr. Bill please hear me, I live tens of thousands of miles far from you, on the other side of the world. I am following your posts few months now. And I care for your soul, because I believe you haven't come here on SI by accident. And you haven't come here in the midst of tens of others preachers who are strongly preaching against the gospel that your pastor is preaching. On this site, I haven't seen one preacher that is preaching the gospel that is enemy of the cross like your pastor is preaching. And do you think that you have come here by accident?

Why don't you see this as a mercy from the Lord to you? Why don't you see what is REAL love and what is singing songs for a deeper sleep? Why you neglect His love to you brining you here?

Mr Bill when I am seeing your church and those thousands there with the bibles in their lap, listening how your pastor is itching their ears, it breaks my heart. And not for your pastor, but for the flock that he is leading.

I am not saying you to stop praying for him, but what I am saying to consider your ways of following him and defending the gospel that he is preaching. I care for you, because we have met here in one place, and I know you by your posts. And it breaks my heart when I am seeing how you are hardening your heart to the truth. It breaks my heart seeing you how you cannot see the literal fulfilling of the Scriptures about false teachers in front of your eyes.

If you think that I am saying this because I don't have something else to say, you are wrong. I am reading you now few months what are you presenting here. I had chance and wanted to reply hundreds of times to your post, but I didn't. I was waiting and praying, months now.

But you are neglecting the truth and the mercy all the time and hardening the heart more instead of humbling it before the Word, not in front of us.

How can you say that something will make me happy , when this thing is breaking my heart? My heart will be only happy when seeing the truth and the real gospel is preaching, otherwise my heart cries. And it's not about your church or your pastor, it's about you, because I don't know other member from your church. I know that in these last days the truth will be neglected more and more, and I know that my heart will be broken until the end of the this journey here on the earth.

Please don't be quick as you are so far, to respond to this message, consider it well. There is no time for being quick. There is a time for serious meditation and prayer and examing the gospel you are following, instead of trying to find excuses.

There is a mercy, there is a restoration and there is acceptance.

Dear Mr Bill consider that you are not here by accident! And consider what is REAL love, and you will appriciate it as never before!

Kire

Miccah wrote:
Hi MrBillPro, Many blessings to you.

Who do you consider to be a false profit, if any in this day and age?

If you do consider someone to be a false profit, should we follow what the Bible says about how to deal with a false profit?

If there are known false profits in todays age, how should we deal with them if not based on biblical teachings?

Thanks in advance for your time answering these.

Well I know your not going to like my answer but I was not given the gift of identifying false prophets or called to do this, so why would I want to stick my nose into something that I feel God has not called me to do? See this is the problem "some" of us here feel God has called us to be God Jr's and are called to do everything and get involved in "all" things as God does,if we all really just stuck with our God given callings instead of jumping on bandwagons we would probably do more good for the body and not try and do things we are not really called to do that we don't have the "total" gift for and just do damage to the body. You know we can all say what Paul might have done or whoever but I am most concerned on what Jesus would do.

Tears_of_joy wrote:
your ways of following him and defending the gospel that he is preaching. Kire

Please show me "one" post were I am defending the gospel that he is preaching. There is a lot of difference in defending someone in general than defending what the person says. If I were never defended on my general character, and I were just summed up on the words I spoke, I would be in a heap of trouble...

KrispyKrittr wrote:
You have it backwards, my brother. You're calling good evil, and evil good. You are in a very dangerous mine field.
Krispy

Well you have every right to your opinion, but I will say this and this is all I will say on this thread "really" none of us here are doing the body any good when things have advanced to this degree.

I feel many alleged trespasses between brethren are a result of "misunderstandings." We need to first investigate the facts and find out for sure whether a trespass has really occurred. This is another reason why you are to first go privately to the brother in question to confront him with the alleged offense and hear his side of the story.

If we disclose the offense to friends in the body, we may later discover that the matter was only a misunderstanding. But by then, their reputation will have been damaged by our allegations.

Many people foolishly allow themselves to become offended by misinterpreting other's intentions, or listening to rumors and second-hand information which always contain distortions or exaggerations. Many offenses could be immediately resolved by confronting the offending party and hearing their explanation.

You'd be surprised how many people are so immature that they don't even bother to investigate the facts or hear the other side of the story I even have seen this at Lakewood. Don't ever forget, "There's always two sides to a story!" Never assume you know the truth of a matter until you've heard both sides!

There would be far fewer misunderstandings in the body of Christ if people would be firmly devoted to love for their brethren. Love for the brethren gives us a desire to believe the best in our brother. Love gives them the "benefit of the doubt," instead of jumping to conclusions and always expecting the worst. The Bible says "If you love someone... you will always believe in him, always expect the best of him" (1 Cor. 13:7 -- The Living Bible).

If the trespass is proven valid, and they repent for their misdeed, you are to express your forgiveness (Luke 17:3-4). Let the matter be forever ended, and carry no resentment toward them. Remember, if they repent, but you continue to harbor bitterness, you too become a perpetrator of sin (Matt. 6:14-15, Acts 8:23, Eph. 4:31-32).

I googled this topic and somewhere in there is a apology from Joel about what he said.
Joel should be more decisive concerning the "essentials"
In a sense I believe the hyper-scrutiny works in his favor.
I hope he declines further interviews.King and Mathews would like nothing better than to have Romney and Huckabee cancel each other out.
And I'm sure us christians will eagerly do our part by getting sucked in to the destruction machine.
On utube there are plenty of anti Joel videos

They obviously use "correctness" to unleash nothing short of hate against this man.
Mathews was baiting Joel and Joel took the bait.
What a shame.
So Joel will either get some backbone or find himself in a "critique" merrygoround.
The man is out there and nothing he says is a free shot.
For every one of his words there are a hundred counter words.......And it will never stop.

David

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Bill, brother... if you dont agree with his teachings then you will find [b]NOTHING[/b] in scripture that condones or allows you to stay. In fact, it commands you to come out and be seperate from it. .
Krispy

I said I was not going to say anything else but for the record I had to respond "BROTHER I DON"T DEFEND "ANY" PASTORS GOSPEL AT ALL" I only defend the Gospel of Jesus Christ, so with that I guess I should just home church myself. :-)

My 11 yr old son can explain the difference between Mormonism and Christianity. It's not that hard.
Krispy

I am sure out somewhere there are 25 year old coaches that can lead football teams to the Super Bowl can you?
With Ignorance or inability's or Mistake age does not discriminate, trust me I know a lot of younger folks that know more than me, they just might not have the wisdom I have. :-)

KrispyKrittr wrote:
The more you defend him the less your arguments make any sense.

Krispy

Thanks Buddy I knew you Loved me at least you are admitting they do make "some" sense, because for something to make less sense it has to start out making some sense, man that my Blessing for today, Thanks!! now I need to go rake leaves as Momma asked me to do about 2 hrs. ago. :-P

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Pastors are called to a very high standard..
Krispy

Yes I can tell Coaches are not just ask the Dolphins those poor souls, maybe you can get the coaches job at least you can't go anywhere by up and I will support you if you get the job by coming to a game or two. :-)

If Joel Osteen can not even give a brief explanation in an interview as to what it means to be born again... or even say "no, Mormons are not Christians"... then he is not scripturally qualified to be a pastor.

Krispy, you cannot expect from him to say that "mormons are not christians", because he is preaching and presenting another gospel, not the gospel of Jesus Christ from the Bible, but the gospel of '[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=21594&forum=48#168786]American Dream Idol[/url]'. And that interview that he gave is not about mormons and what he said about them, but that was presentation of the other gospel that he is preaching. If you haven't seen the interview, here you can watch it:

[url=http://video.aol.com/video-detail/joel-osteen-on-fox-news-sunday/2312407074]Joel Osteen on 'FOX News Sunday'[/url]

Listen carefully all words.

I hate to throw my hat in on this one, its just an ugly thread. But here's something to mull over from wikipedia: [i]'Osteen has also been critized for not having any theological training. Osteen has received a BA in television production, but did not study theology or religion in college, and has never attended a Seminary.'[/i]

As a lay minister he certainly isn't a Zac Poonen or a John Bunyan by any stretch of the imagination. He may have his face on the covers of books down here, but is his name in the book that counts?

I was referencing the topic of discussion *cough* remember that Satan masquerades as an angel of light... i bet he has perfect white teeth. If I was going to cast Satan for a biblical movie version of the Gospel, I would cast someone who looked a little like Joel.

KrispyKrittr wrote:
I agree, Osteen needs to stay away from interviews. But what i dont get is here I am... simple country boy....
Krispy

Brother I totally and I say it again "Totally" agree with you on this, but then what would we talk about here? maybe God? hey that would be a breath of fresh air. it's almost like some of us here are like Fox and some like CNN, I have to say I am like Fox fair and balanced, well maybe not balanced but fair. :-P
I will say I really do appreciate everyones effort to get me to drop out of my Church but then again were would I go? to another Church were that has something wrong with thats Pastors Gospel so my leaving would be in vain, Trust me there is no "perfect" Gospel Preached on the face of this earth, Why? because there is "NO ONE" that understands the Word of God good enough to preach a perfect Gospel, the only Gospel preached on earth, is one that is laid at the foot of the cross were God can Judge or Forgive whichever he chooses.

Krispy said:"So can I assume that you're saying this is not my attitude? How would you know this?"

Perhaps it's the manner in which you hyperventilate,salivate(slobber), grind your teeth, and talk out the side of your mouth, as you bang that keyboard, discussing JO's short comings on SI. :-)

Yeah, me too man.......bummer. I don't do psychobabble either. ;-)

Clutch :-P

Great quote from Sam Jones:

[i]If I had ten thousand angels to preach to to-day, every word I should say would be pure. Our Saviour preached to men. His sermon on the Mount would not have had so much in it about adultery if He had been preaching to angels. God keep me dead honest in dealing with souls. I want to lay my gun on the rail and aim straight. If I hit you on the side, I did not mean to hit you there, but right square in the head. If you think I hit you accidentally, you never made a greater mistake in your life. I hit you with malice aforethought.[/i]

Quote from Sam Jones about Mormonism:

[i]I once knew a new pastor who, upon taking charge of his church, was met by a delegation of the deacons previous to delivering his inaugural sermon. They said: "No, brother, you musn't preach about fashion, because our fashionable members will be out to hear you. You musn't preach about dram-drinking or liquor selling, because several of our members who are liquor-sellers will be out to hear you. you musn't preach about covetousness, because several of our millionaire members will be out to hear you." "Well, what can I preach about?" he asked in great perplexity. "About the Mormons," replied the good deacons; "give'em blazes; there won't be a Mormon to hear you."[/i]

Friends,

Even if we are zealous for truth, we cannot neglect wisdom because we can fall also, though we try a good thing.

In the proverbs it says,

He that reproveth a scorner getteth to himself shame...

and

...the beginning of strife [i]is as[/i] when one letteth out water

2 cor.11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Where in the bible does it say to stay at a church, or sit under a pastor who preaches false doctrine?
Why would we pay big money to a man who didnt go to bible college or study theology,
Isnt your soul at stake, or how about the kids out there who dont know better who sit week after week getting a gospel that can send them to hell.
James 3 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
Why would anybody want to pastor a church who does not know the fundamentals, and especially brings a mockery to the gospel when asked simple questions and then have to recant after someone points out his "dumbness".
Dont get me wrong Joel seems like a nice guy.
But when he is afraid to say what makes a christian a christian, makes him either ignorant of what a true christian is or he is shrinking back from percution from the world.
Which one is worse?
hmmmm..
well I wrote enought to get me in trouble. god bless.

Scripture is full of warnings about teachers/preachers like Mr Osteen. Apparently many fail to heed the warnings.

Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Jud 1:5 I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the Lord, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not.
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day.
Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.
Jud 1:8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
Jud 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
Jud 1:10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
Jud 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Korah.
Jud 1:12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;
Jud 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.
Jud 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him.
Jud 1:16 These are murmurers, complainers, walking after their own lusts; and their mouth speaketh great swelling words, having men's persons in admiration because of advantage.
Jud 1:17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
Jud 1:18 How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.
Jud 1:19 These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.
Jud 1:20 But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life.
Jud 1:22 And of some have compassion, making a difference:
Jud 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.
Jud 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
Jud 1:25 To the only wise God our Savior, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

I believe that those that willingly continue to follow a teacher/preacher that has continually taught a false gospel need to take heed to the following scripture.

Luk 6:39 And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

Blessings Greg :-o

I don't know why the Boss here just don't create a certain special forum for pastor bashing then folks that like to pastor bash could just direct all the new boots to that forum and it would save a lot of bandwidth and we would not have to repeat this stuff over and over, all this does is just create strife between the Church "which is us" but maybe some like to hold on to the stick of strife, I mean who are we talking to anyway? if your talking to anyone that's been here for a month you beating a dead horse with this Joel Osteen stuff, good Lord some Christians are worse than CNN and FOX and NBC and CBS and ABC all together.

Bill said: "I don't know why the Boss here just don't create a certain special forum for pastor bashing......"

It's simple Bill.

He's up in Nova Scotia (or somewhere like that) building a Monastary with three temples. One for Ravenhill, One for Finney, and one for Canadian Baseball......"A Player to be named later". And he doesn't have tiiiiiiiiiiime.

May I suggest, instead of being openly critical about that particular short coming on SI that:
A. You come along side him in his efforts.AND.....
B. Come off some of that big Texas oil money, and send him a check with a number followed by a lot of zeroes.:-)

MAYBE THEN........he might consider it.

Through the years, I've observed that technique for change to be very effective. And really, that's how we do business here in America.

Clutch :-P

Let's look at what the Bible says about those who don't preach The Gospel. I am not saying this because of any one particular individual. This applies to us all. Reading from the New International Version [NIV]

Galatians 1:8-10

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned! Am I now trying to win the approval of men, or of God? Or am I trying to please men? If I were still trying to please men, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Yeeowch! Boy, Paul didn't care *at all* about what was hip, PC, cool, etc., and he wasn't out to win friends. He was out to win souls. This wasn't a popularity contest for Paul. It was life and death.

1 Corinthians 1:13, 23

Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? ... But we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles

This was Paul's mission in life. Paul was not out to make sinners feel better about themselves. He knew what was at stake (eternity), and could not have cared any less whether they had had their best life then or not.

Galatians 2:20-21

I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!

Paul understood the importance to die to Self. He never told anyone to take a vow of poverty, but doing things his own way was not on his agenda. If Paul were to be alive in this day and age, I suspect that many modern preachers would say that he (hypothetically) didn't have enough faith because he wasn't driving around in a Lexus SUV and he didn't have a 20,000 square foot summer home. *Material things weren't important to Paul unless they helped him spread The Gospel.* I seriously doubt that Jesus chose to get into the loftiest, most luxurious, largest pleasure yacht (THAT HE OWNED) when he preached to the people on the seashore. He could not have cared any less.

John 1:12-13

Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

This is important. It's a bit off track, but I have to add this in here. I do not know the names of all the people who preach that all humans are Children of God, and I honestly do not know if Joel Osteen himself has ever said that, but the people who preach that preach a lie. I am so incredibly sick of hearing "We're all Children of God". Nowhere in Scripture does it say that. All is God's Creation, yes. We humans are all made in the image of God, yes. Without Christ, we are not Children of God, but children of the devil.

John 8:42-44

Jesus said to them, "If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and now am here. I have not come on my own; but he sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father's desire. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies."

Again, here is even more Scripture to indicate that everyone is indeed *not* a Child of God.

John 3:5-7

Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'"

You may say, "Well, how does the Kingdom of God relate to being Children of God?" Think about it. If we are God's Children, then we have access to everything in the Kingdom through the blood of Christ. Remember the parable of the prodigal (lost) son? What did the father say to the "good" son once the "sinful" son returned?

Luke 15:31-32

"'My son,' the father said, 'you are always with me, and everything I have is yours. But we had to celebrate and be glad, because this brother of yours was dead and is alive again; he was lost and is found.'"

Now, if God has a kingdom, then that means He is a King. Anyone who is His Child is royalty. Anyone outside of His kingdom is *not* a child of His. When people say that "We're all God's Children", what they are in fact saying is that whether we like it or not, whether we want it or not, we are all royalty and we all belong to God's Kingdom. If that is the case, then men like Hitler, Stalin, Lenin, Voltaire, Saddam Hussein, Mussolini, etc., *WERE ALL CHILDREN OF GOD*. No. No, no, no. No, they were not Children of God. It's not that they were "bad" Children of God. They simply weren't God's Children *AT ALL*. Being a Child of God is not something we're born and stuck with. We become His Children when we receive His only begotten Son, Jesus, as our Savior and Lord and let Him forgive our sins. This means that we each *CHOOSE* to become Children of God. It's not something that we're born with.

Getting back to the prosperity gospel, what do the prosperity preachers do with Habakkuk 3:17-18?

Though the fig tree does not bud and there are no grapes on the vines, though the olive crop fails and the fields produce no food, though there are no sheep in the pen and no cattle in the stalls, yet I will rejoice in the LORD, I will be joyful in God my Savior.

And what about Job 13:15?

Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him. [KJV]

and Job 1:20-22?

Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped, And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD. In all this, Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

Job was a man who knew his God. And there are so many dear saints in the world today who can't afford one car, let alone several $30,000+ cars. There are so many Godly men and women in third world countries that are being tortured, raped, beaten, hanged, skewered, burned alive, drowned, shot at, starved & emaciated, had their limbs severed, abandoned in prison cells for days at a time, yet they will not renounce their faith because they have found The Pearl Of Great Price. They know He is worth it. How much faith do those people have? I would be honored to be in the presence of such precious, lovely saints. I have not been given an ounce of their level of faith. Do we honestly think what neighborhood they live in is on their priority list?

I'm not saying that God calls us all to suffer as those precious people are suffering and have suffered. He gives us each a measure of faith. And the poor we will always have with us, yes I know that. God is not against us having what we consider to be good things, but when our things get in the way of us getting closer to Him and growing in Him, or leading a lost soul to Jesus, then we need to re-examine our priorities. If we truly believe that material objects and financial wealth are status of our faith, then may God have mercy on us. God *IS* angry with us when we sin and do not repent of it. He *WILL* hold us accountable for our sins on the Day of Judgement if we have not accepted His Son, Jesus, as our Savior and Lord. And it will not be a good Day for many people. God's justice, perfection, holiness and righteousness outweigh His own desire to *NOT* send people to hell. On the Day of Judgement, God's justice, perfection, holiness and righteousness will be so clear and apparent, that every sinner will say "Amen" to their own damnation. Why isn't this preached to the masses?

It just came to me. Earlier in the post someone was stating that we should be patient with Osteen and let God work on him. Then the reply was that this would mean he is an imature believer and should not be leading a flock. Has anyone done any research on Osteen to find out how he got into the ministry in the first place? Well he just filled in the shoes of his father. So was this a The Call or Protocall?? hmmm. True doctrine is the word of God. False doctrine is Heresy. To be called to lead a congregation is no laughing matter it is serious business. Godly business. We are all commissioned as believers to teach the word. Mat 28:19

"Go therefore[fn3] and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mat 28:20 "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Amen.[fn4]

But to lead a congregation is another matter.