Is Your Church Free from Cultic Tendencies?

Hia Loveyouall. Welcome.

Happy to report - my Church scored "Free" on this test.
Passed the Dean-Gotcher test also. :-D

Lord Bless and thanks for the test. I can breath easier now.

loveyouall wrote:
Is your pastor fully accountable to a board of elders, presbyters, etc?
Is loyalty to Jesus and to one's own calling placed before loyalty to pastor and church?
Does your pastor encourage questions and suggestions? Is he approachable?
Does your pastor give equal attention to all kinds of people in his congregation?
Does your pastor readily admit his errors?
Does your pastor avoid boasting or hinting at a "special anointing"?
Is your pastor truly humble?
Are the sermons based on clear Biblical truths, not on "original revelations" or ax-grinding?
Does your church interact with other churches?
Does your church staff avoid secrecy?
Is power shared in your church (rather than preempted by a hierarchy)?
Does your church see itself as just one organ of the Body of Christ, and not the main one?
Is your church truly friendly?
Does your church emphasize ministry to people rather than church programs?
Are especially needy people cared for lovingly in your church?
Are church members encouraged and loved even when they leave?
Are relationships with former members encouraged or allowed?
Do the pastor and congregation avoid attacking and using as object lessons, former members or those who disagree?
Are families encouraged to stay together and spend time together?
Does your family worship Sunday service include children, at least for part of the service?
Are you encouraged in your own calling?
Are pleas for money rare and unemotional?
Are your children happy to attend church?
Are you happy to bring unsaved friends to your church?
Is there a diversity of classes, races, dress styles, ages, and occupations in your church?
Are people encouraged to hear from God for themselves?
Is there a single behavior standard for all people in the church?
Are all types of people considered welcome at your church?
Is the joy of the Lord present in your church?
Are you free from fear in your church?
Do you think more about God and Jesus than you do about your pastor and church?
Does your pastor include himself in any calls for repentance and forgiveness?
Are you clear that the pastors and elders never exaggerate or lie to make themselves look good?
Is your group encouraging of each other and free from gossip and rumoring?
Is there a humility of doctrine that points to the grace of God and His mercy for sinners?
Are you encouraged to serve in ministries or missions outside the local body?
Is there ever any pressure put upon members to give or lend money to leaders for their personal or business use (exclusive of church business or projects)?

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/a04aa.html

Did not see anything about church discipline on this list, why not.

Discussing "cultic" Moe - I think this one may cover "discipline", for one.

Quote:
"Do the pastor and congregation avoid attacking and using as object lessons, former members or those who disagree?"

by HE_Reigns on 2008/1/14 14:42:32

Discussing "cultic" Moe - I think this one may cover "discipline", for one.

Quote:
"Do the pastor and congregation avoid attacking and using as object lessons, former members or those who disagree?"

by moe_mac 2008 01/14 16:54:45
I am not sure this is an appropriate question about church discipline. I don't beleive the Bible teaches anyone should be used another as an object lesson but everyone member should be held accountable whether they be Pastor, Elder, Deacon, or member. The churches purpose should always be that of restoration rather than excommunication, if possible. If the members are submissive to the Lord and leadership they shouldn't have a problem with restoration.
However there is biblical instructions in the proper order on how and who to carry this out within the local church body.

2 Tim 4:9-10
9 Do your best to come to me quickly, 10 for Demas, because he loved this world, has deserted me and has gone to Thessalonica.

2 Tim 4:14-15
14 Alexander the metalworker did me a great deal of harm. The Lord will repay him for what he has done. 15 You too should be on your guard against him, because he strongly opposed our message.

Acts 15:1-3
2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question.

Acts 15:36-41
37 Barnabas wanted to take John, also called Mark, with them, 38 but Paul did not think it wise to take him, because he had deserted them in Pamphylia and had not continued with them in the work. 39 They had such a sharp disagreement that they parted company. Barnabas took Mark and sailed for Cyprus, 40 but Paul chose Silas and left, commended by the brothers to the grace of the Lord. 41 He went through Syria and Cilicia, strengthening the churches.

Everyone needs to be accountable to the church and ultimately to the Lord.

I think there is situations where the leadership visits a member in private and ask them to repent to the church. If they don't next step. If not next step. This is something I have only come to grips with in recent years. In the past, I would have stood firm against such.

And there is more.

moe_mac

loveyouall wrote:
Is your pastor fully accountable to a board of elders, presbyters, etc?
Is loyalty to Jesus and to one's own calling placed before loyalty to pastor and church?
Does your pastor encourage questions and suggestions? Is he approachable?
Does your pastor give equal attention to all kinds of people in his congregation?
Does your pastor readily admit his errors?
Does your pastor avoid boasting or hinting at a "special anointing"?
Is your pastor truly humble?
Are the sermons based on clear Biblical truths, not on "original revelations" or ax-grinding?
Does your church interact with other churches?
Does your church staff avoid secrecy?
Is power shared in your church (rather than preempted by a hierarchy)?
Does your church see itself as just one organ of the Body of Christ, and not the main one?
Is your church truly friendly?
Does your church emphasize ministry to people rather than church programs?
Are especially needy people cared for lovingly in your church?
Are church members encouraged and loved even when they leave?
Are relationships with former members encouraged or allowed?
Do the pastor and congregation avoid attacking and using as object lessons, former members or those who disagree?
Are families encouraged to stay together and spend time together?
Does your family worship Sunday service include children, at least for part of the service?
Are you encouraged in your own calling?
Are pleas for money rare and unemotional?
Are your children happy to attend church?
Are you happy to bring unsaved friends to your church?
Is there a diversity of classes, races, dress styles, ages, and occupations in your church?
Are people encouraged to hear from God for themselves?
Is there a single behavior standard for all people in the church?
Are all types of people considered welcome at your church?
Is the joy of the Lord present in your church?
Are you free from fear in your church?
Do you think more about God and Jesus than you do about your pastor and church?
Does your pastor include himself in any calls for repentance and forgiveness?
Are you clear that the pastors and elders never exaggerate or lie to make themselves look good?
Is your group encouraging of each other and free from gossip and rumoring?
Is there a humility of doctrine that points to the grace of God and His mercy for sinners?
Are you encouraged to serve in ministries or missions outside the local body?
Is there ever any pressure put upon members to give or lend money to leaders for their personal or business use (exclusive of church business or projects)?

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/a04aa.html

One thing that a cult church does is give the people a sense of being a part of a higher calling or set apart from the rest of the world. Most of the people who are part of this type church are totally blinded by what's really going on. Their whole reason for living is to please the pastor. The pastor usually has so much power over these people that he controls them just like a puppet. Their being controlled but they don't know theri being controlled. As long as he keeps making them feel special and he keeps fronting that high they'll be no reason for an uprising.

Thers a book out called the 48 laws of power by Robert Green. It's kind of a "Machiavellian" aproach to gainig power. It really reminded me alot of one of my pastors I grew up under. I would'nt read a book like this to apply to my own life, but it helps to understand the "cult of personality" these tyrants have. It really is all about power.

The thing we must remember is that these people are decieved themsleves so in reality the devil IS to blame. He eats people like this for supper. Pray for them. Try to help them. By no means cross them or theyll have your head. If your on the outsisde youll probably not be able to get in unless you find some way to get close to his closest friends.

Cults are insane. I was in one. Theres no way to fully rationalize what goes on. Everything is so hid from the common folk that its hard to know really what's going on unless your on the inside. Theres so much lying and manipulation that truth gets lost.

Let me make this clear. It all starts with FALSE DOCTRINE.

Karl Marx was right when he said religion was the "opiet of society". That is very true. "Religion" is an opiet and a very potent one at that.

Does your pastor encourage questions and suggestions?
Is he approachable?
Does your church emphasize ministry to people rather than church programs?
Are church members encouraged and loved even when they leave?
Are relationships with former members encouraged or allowed?
Are you happy to bring unsaved friends to your church?
Are you encouraged to serve in ministries or missions outside the local body?
Do the pastor and congregation avoid attacking and using as object lessons, former members or those who disagree?

Some valid reasons on why we left our church. Thanks for posting it.

add on, I would encourage everyone to read Mark Dever's book called, "Nine marks of a Healthy Church"

Revolution34 wrote:
I agree with ginny here, this forum does smells of anti human authority. Pastors are easy targets for those who are contradicted when they want to do their own thing in the name of the Lord. I think the question is what is false doctrine, and what is the role of a Pastor and the church. The word Pastor is taken from shepherd and sheep need leading, thank God for good shepherds that stand for what is right by the Word and wont be manipulated. I thank God for my Pastor has helped me out of many a ditch and kept me from straying in error and temptation. Todays church needs less yes men and more godly men.

Good question. Condemnation is a good word. "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ". I talk to people all the time who grew up in a churches that specialize in "brow beating" most of them have some kind of emotional problem. The trick is to break someone down mentaly so that they will submit to you. I saw it all the time. Cause enough doubt in people to get them to come to the altar,(submission). Then once youve done that you can work up a joyfull celebration because you got someone to bend to your will. Jesus never preached that way. He never broke people down in order for them to submit to his will. He gave them a choice. I don't see this anywhere except for when he's preaching to the religious crowd, but it only hardened them.
It really is a "psycological strategy" that some of these preachers use that they don't even realize they are using.
I've got a good friend that will stand and preach for an hour screaming at the top of his lungs and never miss a lick, by the time you get through one of his messages you feel so condemned and hopeless that you just want to take a gun a end it all. Now. Tell me if that's God? Weve had this discussion before, but he don't want to hear it.
I've seen people get saved over and over again until they finally lose hope and just quit church and go back to the world.
I was preaching one day,(I used to use the same technique by the way) and a mentally handicapped boy came to the altar and was wailing and crying and he was so weak he could barely get up. You see this type preaching PREYS on the weak, and if your not already weak, you will be if you stay under it long enough.
I've seen people who were emotional basket cases. Usually if their not emotionally weak they become so hard and full of hate that they can barely function in society. I've seen familys torn apart because of the hatred that it breads in the hearts of people.
We better be careful because one day we'll give an account for these things. Some do it out of ignorance, some out of spite. I wanted to become one of these preachers because it appealed to my flesh "POWER". Power over people. People practically worshipping you. Sounds sick don't it? It's hard to understand unless you've been there.
A mark of a good pastor is one who is a servant. Jesus made himself of no reputation.
Some gain influence by bad publicity. Theres no such thing as bad publicity. Anything that can draw attention to yourself can help you. You can find a way to use it to your advantage.
I heard a preacher on hear(Paul Washer) promoting himself by telling the congregation what others have said about him "You may have heard that I'm wild", "before I had a name for myself", these are self promoting tactics. The message was (The narrow way). Theres all kinds of q's you can pick up on if you'll listen.
The biggest indicator is usually self promotion or right the opposite self abhoring.
Crying uncontrollably in the pulpit to seem broken in order to create an emotional atmosphere. Women generally are the first to get sucked into this type thing. Women are more led by their emotions than men. You can hear Paul Washer draw attention to his emotions in his message. So how do you know if our preacher is like this, you probably already know and havent done anything about it. I would say pray about it. Ask the Lord to reveal the truth to you. If I can help you in any way you can PM me. I've seen it all.
Theres a big differnece in dicatatorship and a genuinely concerned pastor. Big difference.
Now the other side of that is when the decons or elders have complete control. That's a way to kill a church in a heart beat.
The only advice I have is to pray and seek the will of God for your church and your leaders. Satan wants to get these men into these pitfalls so he can use them for his will. When I listen to Paul Washer I see him using the same old tactics. Doubt, fear, emotion. It's all been done before, and for the most part it's been done better.( Let's cause people to doubt their salvation so they'll come and get saved again and I can tell everyone how many got saved at our meeting, because they heard the REAL truth.)
It's wrong and it's evil.

When I listen to Paul Washer I see him using the same old tactics. Doubt, fear, emotion. It's all been done before, and for the most part it's been done better.( Let's cause people to doubt their salvation so they'll come and get saved again and I can tell everyone how many got saved at our meeting, because they heard the REAL truth.)

I never heard Paul Washer try to convince others they are not saved...I have heard him speak the truth about alter calls and methods. I have heard numerous times on how he would encourage others to seek the lord about there salvation. Actually he offered to a young lady that they could say the "sinners prayer" but he told her would that change her mind or give her comfort, she mentioned I have done that several times. He told her go home and seek the lord. I have to disagree with your view on Paul Washer. From what I can tell from his sermons, he doesn't brow beat believers.

Jesus was harder on those who profess to be believers and weren't.

reformer wrote:

When I listen to Paul Washer I see him using the same old tactics. Doubt, fear, emotion. It's all been done before, and for the most part it's been done better.( Let's cause people to doubt their salvation so they'll come and get saved again and I can tell everyone how many got saved at our meeting, because they heard the REAL truth.)

I never heard Paul Washer try to convince others they are not saved...I have heard him speak the truth about alter calls and methods. I have heard numerous times on how he would encourage others to seek the lord about there salvation. Actually he offered to a young lady that they could say the "sinners prayer" but he told her would that change her mind or give her comfort, she mentioned I have done that several times. He told her go home and seek the lord. I have to disagree with your view on Paul Washer. From what I can tell from his sermons, he doesn't brow beat believers.

Jesus was harder on those who profess to be believers and weren't.

You havent listened to many of his messages then.
Anytime, and I say anytime you cause doubt instead of faith, it's wrong.
This little girl you mentioned, sounds like shes already saved, she just needs her faith strengthened.
Why did he say go home and seek the Lord? What kind of a cop out is that.
How about. Do you believe Jesus died for you? Do you believe he rose again on the third day? Did you ask him to save you? If yes then just trust him. He loves you and he'll never let you go. That helps build faith. Not. Well go home and seek God. Blaaaaaa! Why even call yourself a minster if that's the best you can do. No. He wants her to have some kind of emotional experience before HES satisfied. Some people think their not saved because they don't FEEL saved. That don't mean their not saved, it just means they don't FEEL saved.
Look folks, if we want people to be strong we've got to help strengthen their FAITH. Teach people who they are in Christ. Quit causing doubt and confusion and quit making it harder than it is. We make it so hard that people can't even make a simple decision to trust Christ. Blindsided by confusion.
That little girl may go out and get messed up in some cult because shes so weak in her faith. Trying to FEEL saved. Shell probably search for years for something shes already got.

You havent listened to many of his messages then.

I have listened to plenty of his sermons sir, and I have found that yes he can be hard and he can also be gentle. There is nothing wrong with preaching the way he does...if you have issues with that style of preaching, you shouldn't be on SI.I can't remember, exactly who the minister is, but he said to a crowd of believers he was preaching to, and said " quit whining about it and go home and live it!" There is some good wisdom in that, instead we usher people down the front and repeat a prayer and pat them on the back and send them on there way. Whats worse? Preaching strong or circumventing he holy spirit in some religious to do? We have so many believers are there that are not saved, they think they are...but more than likely not! Instead of making them feel comfortable and helping them grow in their faith as you say to do. Are you not just putting a band aid over the real issue? We need to count the cost and examine ourselves if we are truly in the faith. Paul Washer , is a prophet of our day, he cuts to the issue. I understand that you have issues with him and others like him, do to your experiences, and you feel a great passion about your convictions. Thats good! But that may not be others convictions. There is nothing wrong with sending someone home and letting "themselves" seek the Lord. Instead, we make others feel good tell them "hey your saved...quit listening to the devil. Did you ask Christ into your heart?" Then there you go you are saved!!! Is that what you want to tell others? Is someone in sin and they haven't changed there way of life?

If you listen to Paul Washers sermons you would have heard him talk about a man who was dying, that had two weeks to live, and Paul Washer told the man he would cancel his flight back home and if it took two weeks to understand the Gospel he would do that...so he stayed with the man after service and went through scripture after scripture, until the Holy Spirit, opened this mans heart...he was saved! He stayed with this man for several hours, and yes he did tell that other woman to go home and seek the Lord. Different circumstances call for different actions. To many preachers want notches on there belt, "I got more saved!" I have never heard Paul Washer speak in this manner. If he wanted that he could approach his preaching like that, but he doesn't. He is tired of seeing so many preachers telling people they are saved and causing emotional experiences, like your friend does. They make people feel saved, if you can say these five things, then your saved. Paul Washer doesn't do that. Did Jesus tell others to feel saved, He told them to count the costs. Did He chase after the rich young ruler and help him understand and have the faith to believe? Did Nicodemus here a dissertation on feeling saved, understanding your salvation?

My concern is not Paul Washer. my concern is those that are afraid to actually preach the Gospel. They don't talk about sin or hell or the wrath of God. They talk more about Jesus loving others and being your pal. Yes He is those things, but there is the other side of God, He hates sin, He loves us so much that He sent His son to die for our sins. Not to have a purpose. I get tired, of hearing the other style in pulpits.

Anyways I must go...I hope you have a nice day

Tears_of_joy wrote:

chiefosiners wrote:

Look folks, if we want people to be strong we've got to help strengthen their FAITH. Teach people who they are in Christ.

Sir, you cannot strengthen someone's faith if he is not IN the faith. You cannot teach people what are in Christ, if they are not IN Christ. You are providing false security, which is far more dangerous than no security.

The things you said are for those IN faith.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=21704&forum=13&22]A living testimony is in front of our eyes.[/url] You cannot ignore this.

Amen...I couldn't have said it better. I had to write a book!! And still you said it better!! ;-) :-D

Tears_of_joy wrote:

chiefosiners wrote:

Look folks, if we want people to be strong we've got to help strengthen their FAITH. Teach people who they are in Christ.

Sir, you cannot strengthen someone's faith if he is not IN the faith. You cannot teach people what are in Christ, if they are not IN Christ. You are providing false security, which is far more dangerous than no security.

The things you said are for those IN faith.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=21704&forum=13&22]A living testimony is in front of our eyes.[/url] You cannot ignore this.

Mrs. If a person believes the bible than thats it. It's as simple as that. Philip the evangelist preached JESUS and the ethiopian eunich said he believed that Jesus was the Son of God. The bible says he preached to him Jesus. The death, burial, and ressurrection. The man said "I believe Jesus is the son of God". Then Phillip said well what hinders you to be baptised.
NAAAAAWWW could'nt be that easy. That's just too easy. Theres gotta be something more. Right?

You don't have to seek the Lord to just trust him. Theres no seeking that needs to take place for that. If you tell people to go seek then your sending them on a wild goose chase because God is everywhere. He hides in plain sight. It's not a matter of seeking it's a matter of trusting.

JUST TRUST HIS WORD. PUT YOUR FAITH IN CHRIST. HE IS THE FOUDATION.

The devil wants to blindside people with all kinds of religious nonsense. It just adds to the confusion. Forget all that junk. Just trust Jesus. Trust him, talk to him, ask him to help you understand what faith is. It's just a matter of faith. If we can look past all that other and just TRUST it will change everything.

Don't look at yourself because that takes your mind off him. Just trust him and learn about him. Hes meek and lowly. His yoke is easy. He will give you REST, REST, REST. Theres nothing more that needs to be done. He's done it all. Just except that and trust him. When that finally makes a connection we begin to develop. We begin to mature. Then were no longer babies, but were beggining to become adults. Mature. Strong in FAITH.

ou don't have to seek the Lord to just trust him. Theres no seeking that needs to take place for that. If you tell people to go seek then your sending them on a wild goose chase because God is everywhere. He hides in plain sight. It's not a matter of seeking it's a matter of trusting.

Psalm 53:2 The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.

gotta go to work now...but there is plenty of scripture that tells us to seek the Lord.

Blessings today

reformer wrote:

ou don't have to seek the Lord to just trust him. Theres no seeking that needs to take place for that. If you tell people to go seek then your sending them on a wild goose chase because God is everywhere. He hides in plain sight. It's not a matter of seeking it's a matter of trusting.

1 Chor.16:11
Seek the Lord and His strength;
Seek His face evermore!

Psalm 53:2 The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men,
To see if there are any who understand, who seek God.

gotta go to work now...but there is plenty of scripture that tells us to seek the Lord.

Blessings today

Just put your faith in Christ....that's easy. The demons know that. Faith is something God gives those to be saved, its not manufactured by us. So I can just say I will put my faith in Christ and thats it.

Gotta go, anyways we will just have disagree.

reformer wrote:
Just put your faith in Christ....that's easy. The demons know that. Faith is something God gives those to be saved, its not manufactured by us. So I can just say I will put my faith in Christ and thats it.

Gotta go, anyways we will just have disagree.