Must listen - Was Jesus a Zionist?

https://www.christianzionism.org/theological-questions

Marching to Zion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei_Hu1hcsa4

Did the Holocaust Really Happen?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlBA2zp992c

have anyone been rebuked by this yet? This is very hard hitting and a very needed message regarding Christian Zionism.

May I ask who is doing this teaching?

Thanks
MJ

MaryJane wrote:
May I ask who is doing this teaching?

Thanks
MJ

Several different people.

hmmhmm

hmmhmm wrote:
have anyone been rebuked by this yet? This is a very.... hard hitting sermon. And a very needed one in our mammon christianity

Hey bro I'm a little short on mammon. Can you send me yours?
It might cost you some shipping but think of how much better you will feel!

God bless you,

David

Why Egypt is a Problem for Christian Zionists

Christian Zionist leader, John Hagee, is on record prophesying that Egypt will become the next Iran, meaning, a new head for the many-headed beast that is Islam, and this despite the fact that those who understand the dynamics of Egyptian history and society (not to mention the way the Egyptian revolution came about) say that this is not going to happen. Which underscores why Egypt is a problem for Christian Zionists.

When Hal Lindsey wrote his Christian Zionist potboiler, The Late, Great Planet Earth, in 1969 he spoke with great assurance about the critical nature of the alliance Egypt would make with the Soviet Union in an aggressive move against Israel as a necessary precursor to the Second Coming of Christ. Then Egypt broke relations with the Soviets followed by the later demise of the Soviet Union itself. By the time Lindsey wrote his next book this scenario was no longer tenable, forcing him to pin his apocalyptic hopes on another political demon. (which has now more or less become Islam).

One wonders what Hagee and Lindsey and others like them are going to do when Egypt and possibly other of the Middle Eastern states Christian Zionists love to villianize in their apocalyptic scenarios, become secular democracies. Or even worse (from an apocalyptic Christian Zionist perspective) what they will do if a new democratic Egyptian government helps bring about a legitimate peace treaty with Israel, one that leads to the dismantlement of illegal settlements and the creation of a viable Palestinian state on land Christian Zionists insist belongs to the world's Jews. In other words, what if unfolding events make the Christian Zionist End Times scenario no longer tenable? Will Hagee and company continue to raise the apocalyptic flag even when there is no wind to keep it flying? Or will they simply close up shop, turning their backs on Israel because she didn't keep her side of the apocalyptic bargain? Given that this is the primary basis upon which Christian Zionists like Hagee build their support for the Israeli state (despite Hagee's assertions to the contrary) such a scenario is not beyond possibility.

Stay tuned.

John Hubers

Marching to Zion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei_Hu1hcsa4

Did the Holocaust Really Happen?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QlBA2zp992c

Brother Christian, you know your heart and motives, but what you said is not far from the truth.

It's time to stop playing games with deathly serious issues which are about life or death.

I do not apologise for the truth.

hmmhmm, I know you love me and a rebuke in love is a rare thing.
Usually I only joke with you and Dorcas and Jeanette.
I prefer joy to heaviness
I tried poor and I didnt like it
I tried sad and didnt like that either.

Do yall realize that when we get to heaven the economy is abundance?
Without lack we would not have the earthly economy......it is based on lack.
I like Gods economy.
"thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven"

God bless you bro!

David

Good morning, David.

Without lack we would not have the earthly economy......it is based on lack.

Can you please clarify?

Paul

downloading now, thanks. good looking out.

The Kairos Palestine Document: A Word of Faith, Hope and Love from the Heart of Palestinian Suffering
A Confession of Faith and Cry of Hope from Palestinian Christians

Longsuffering is a rich biblical word. It speaks of what it means to be faithful in a faithless world. For Palestinian Christians it is something more. It is a definition of their existence. It is also what allows them to maintain a powerful testimony that has an impact well beyond their numbers as their longsuffering-ness holds forth a vision for reconciliation and peace where others have slipped into a cynical resignation to conflict.

This past week an historical meeting of Palestianian Christian leaders produced a document that echoes the faith commitments of courageous documents like the Barmen Declaration of the confessing German Church during WW II, or the anti-apartheid Belhar Confession. The Palestinian Christian document is called "The Kairos Palestine Document," the Greek word, kairos, speaking of a "ripe" moment in time. The document in its entirety, along with signatories, can be downloaded from the World Council of Churches site.

Here is how it begins:

Introduction

We, a group of Christian Palestinians, after prayer, reflection and an exchange of opinion, cry out from within the suffering in our country, under the Israeli occupation, with a cry of hope in the absence of all hope, a cry full of prayer and faith in a God ever vigilant, in God’s divine providence for all the inhabitants of this land. Inspired by the mystery of God's love for all, the mystery of God’s divine presence in the history of all peoples and, in a particular way, in the history of our country, we proclaim our word based on our Christian faith and our sense of Palestinian belonging ”“ a word of faith, hope and love.

Why now? Because today we have reached a dead end in the tragedy of the Palestinian people. The decision-makers content themselves with managing the crisis rather than committing themselves to the serious task of finding a way to resolve it. The hearts of the faithful are filled with pain and with questioning: What is the international community doing? What are the political leaders in Palestine, in Israel and in the Arab world doing? What is the Church doing? The problem is not just a political one. It is a policy in which human beings are destroyed, and this must be of concern to the Church.

We address ourselves to our brothers and sisters, members of our Churches in this land. We call out as Christians and as Palestinians to our religious and political leaders, to our Palestinian society and to the Israeli society, to the international community, and to our Christian brothers and sisters in the Churches around the world.

http://www.oikoumene.org/en/resources/documents/other-ecumenical-bodies/kairos-palestine-document

hmmhmm,The joy of the Lord is my strength...amen?
We were dirt poor when I was growing up. I remember my mother and I hiding in the house from the bill collectors.
Everything I remember about being poor stinks.
I am not rich now nor do I care to be.
I work hard with my hands.
I do trees, fences, and auto repair for a living and the only retirement i have is social security.
Poor is not virtuous. It is nothing to desire.
The bible says having food, reignment, and a roof over your head.....therin be content.
Do we agree?
Laughter is good medicine.
Did you know that it takes about a third less muscles in your face to smile as it does to frown?
Also when a person laughs they release good chemicals into their bodies and are healthier.
God loves a cheerful giver [but he will take money from a grouch] LOL!

I find this conversation strange in that I imagine you as a joyful person.

are you?

Do you realize when I say God bless you that I really do expect Him to bless your health, finances, family, job, neighborhood, etc.?
It is not a cliche to me.....it is my prayer over you and I am super- serious.
I really do want your well being!!!!

God bless you bro!

David

Hi paul, I just finished reading your comments from july of 2006 on smith wigglesworth.
Thanks it brought back memories of studying him.

Concerning the economy ...it does operate based on lack.
lack establishes value ex; gold is scarce therefore valuble.
milk is abundant.....therefore cheap

Make sense?

btw, that wigglesworth thread of 2006 seemed like happier times on sermon index.
there seemed to be more of a "flow"

Bleess you bro!

David

Hi David,

That Wigglesworth thread was one of the very first things I did on SermonIndex. It was a fun one! Glad you enjoyed it. Brings back memories...

Grace and peace to you!

Brother Paul

p.s. Oops. I almost forgot the thank you for clarifying that bit about the economy. I understand where you're coming from now. Thanks!

David,

I don't think you are really listening to what is being said in this thread. It is more of a knee-jerk response rather than a thoughtful response. To say you "tried" poor and sad, and didn't like isn't the message of the sermon or this thread. This also isn't an issue of 'prooftexting'. The Beatitudes quoted were just ignored or, if you like, C.S. Lewis once said, "There is a joy that makes you serious." We aren't talking about false gloom, false poverty, or "trying" some attitude for a season.

I am a Protestant and reading "Poverty in the Theology of John Calvin". I highly recommend it and I think you are right in agreement. The opening paragraph: "John Calvin was one fo the several Reformers who challenged the Roman Church's understanding of poverty. During the Reformation, the practice of taking clerical and monastic vows was rejected, able-bodied vagrants were exhorted to work, and the poor were no longer seen as virtuous or to be indulged by the rich in order to gain eternal security. As one historian states, 'Poerty or rather the poor were not despised,' yet most importantly, they 'were no longer idealized.' As a leader of the Protestant Reformation, John Calvin shared this view which separated poverty from the virtue attached to it..."

You are right, there is no virtue in poverty, but we must also recognize that we have much. Even if you are poor in America, you still have much. That's not to make anyone feel guilty in and of itself, but try to listen to what is being said in this thread rather than just responding to respond.

Your response to the Beatitudes as "the joy of the Lord is my strength...amen?" wasn't a thoughtful response. It is not an issue of not being joyful. In fact, if the joy of the Lord was your strength, then your poverty wouldn't bother you as much. In fact, like Paul, you could say, "I can be content in all situations." It didn't sound like you were content. Learn to be content.

openairboy

Openairboy, yes i think we can all reach higher.
I am not indifferent to the poor.
I quit tithing about 25 years ago after i read my bible.
God showed me how to use my finances to help the poor and the brethren.
I have my treasure in heaven and do appreciate the helps ministry.
It is an awesome thing to give and I get such a rush when I do.
And yes I have had my personal boycott against wal-mart for about 5 years,for the same reason....slave labor.We can go to wal-mart and exploit those slaves so we can have a cheaper price.
Only part of what mr Servant is true.
Just like only part of the faith movement is true.
But what i see more and more is "lets throw out the faith movement teaching and their scriptures but overlook our teachers error"
We seem to be letting ourselves fall into a mindset of measuring our correctness against what we perceive to be false.

David

https://www.christianzionism.org/biblical-questions/

Brother Christian,

I love your heart. You are indeed a blessing!

I just finished listening to this sermon. I was surprised to hear Brother David speaking so softly and calmly on the subject. Perhaps its because I'm very passionate about it, but I expected to hear more of a rebuke in a message like this. This is a tremendous problem in America. Greed, waste, lust, desire and discontentment are all like diseases out of control.

But, I'm not wise and I'm sure this is why God has not made me a preacher! The Holy Spirit knows best how people need to hear this sermon. They probably needed to hear it delivered in love, rather than as a rebuke.

Like my name here says, I enjoy "Simple Living." The less I have, the more content I seem to become. I enjoy being mobile. My apartment is only 350 square feet (32.5 sqm). I live on 50% of my income and have only what I need and my computer. Friends can't believe that I live without a microwave, dishwasher, stereo, or television. I learned that as long as I have a Bible, I truly do have all I need! (I was homeless at one time.)

When I moved back to America from Ireland, I was robbed at the airport and had only $20 to start life over with in the US. I foolishly applied for a credit card and that turned into two. I also have a student loan that I am paying off. Even with this debt, I am living on 50% of my income. I use the other 50% to pay my debt. Within the year, I will be debt free!

I'm praying now that God will help me be a better steward of His resources when I'm free from debt.

Den May Guden mottar härlighet från våra liv!

Bro. christian, Yes to everything! Amen,amen,amen

God bless!

David

Bro Keith, Wow thats quite a testimony.It's good we have si to tell our testimonies ...amen?

It is good to get those windows into the lives of the brethren.
All our testimonies are priceless!

David