Holiness Imputed? "In Christ" Phraseology

DANIEL STEELE, S.T.D.
CHAPTER VIII
HOLINESS IMPUTED

THERE is much confused and erroneous thinking and teaching on the subject of imputed righteousness and imputed holiness. Some are confounding the two, and teaching that the only holiness possible to us in this world is the robe of Christ's righteousness thrown around hearts inherently impure. In the interest of clear thought and Christian purity, we invite the reader to a discussion of the radical distinction between imputed righteousness and imputed holiness. The term "impute," literally signifies "to think to," to reckon one thing belongs to another when it really does not. In the Revision it is superseded by the word "reckon."

We define righteousness in man to be conformity to the Divine law, and holiness conformity to the Divine nature.

Jesus Christ is both righteous and holy. These qualities are personal, inherent, and untransferable. But in addition to His personal righteousness He has a mediatorial righteousness, the merit of His passive obedience, labors, sacrifices, sufferings, death, and high-priestly intercessions. Now, although the phrase, "the imputation of Christ's righteousness," or "Christ's imputed righteousness," is not found in the Bible, the doctrine itself is found in the epistles of Paul unfolded extendedly, and it is hinted at in the Gospels when Jesus speaks of giving His life for the world, or as a ransom for many. But it is always His mediatorial, and not His personal righteousness. The absolute necessity of this imputation in the scheme of redemption, arises from the fact that one past sin produces an eternal disconformity to the Divine law, so that the Lawgiver cannot treat us as if we had never sinned without violating the truth of history, and cheating the law of its demands. Hence pardon and salvation would be impossible under the reign of strict and unbending law. But here comes in the mediatoriaI righteousness of Christ to all who plead it as the ground of justification, so that God can be just and the justifier of him who believeth. In other words, there is a constructive, not to say fictitious, conformity, to the law, now possible through faith in the merits of Christ. Otherwise, law would be forever against us. The necessity of this scheme of imputation lies in the fact that God Himself cannot change the past. It is a record absolutely inerasible.

But when God wishes to make men holy, or bring them into conformity to His own nature, there is no such inerasible record in the way. Justification is a work done for us, and has reference to the past; sanctification is a work wrought in us, and always has respect to the present. Hence, imputation of holiness is not necessary. In fact, in the very nature of things, it is impossible. There can be no such thing as vicarious character, for character is the sum total of what we ourselves are. There may be a vicarious assumption of another's debt; there cannot be a vicarious assumption of another's character. Hence, holiness must be personal, inherent, inwrought and imparted by the power of the Holy Spirit, procured by the same atonement by which it is possible for us, through faith, to be conformed to the Divine law, or savingly adjusted to an inerasible, sinful record.

IN CHRIST
The phrase "in Christ" is perpetually quoted as a proof-text to sustain the doctrine of imputed holiness, a quality not imparted to us, being inwrought by the Holy Spirit and ever afterwards existing inherently in the believer; but an attribute of Jesus Christ regarded by God as belonging to Christians, even when they are unholy in character and wicked in conduct.

The theory is that Jesus Christ is standing today in the presence of the Father as a specimen and representative of glorified humanity, and that faith in Him so intimately unites us with Him, that all His personal excellencies become ours in such a sense as to excuse us if we lack them. It is said that the first act of faith eternally incorporates us into the glorified person of Christ, so that whatever sin we may commit afterwards we incur no condemnation.

Says Fletcher: "People, it seems, may now be 'in Christ,' without being 'new creatures, and 'new creatures' without casting 'old things' away. They may be God's children without God's image; and 'born of the Spirit' without 'the fruit of the Spirit.'"

The favorite proof-text of this piece of rank antinomianism is Rom. viii. 1: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus," with special attention called to the omission by the critical MSS. and the Revised Version, of the limiting clause: "who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit." Over this omission the imputationists rejoice, as if it unanswerably demonstrated the truth of their doctrine, that God, seeing the believer only in Christ, beholds no sin in him, even when he has wilfully and flagrantly transgressed the known law. They fail to note that the same limiting clause stands in the fourth verse unquestioned by the critics.

Hence their assertion that the flesh is a sinful state which does not in the least damage our perfect standing in Christ, in whom the carnally-minded believer is as holy as the Son of God Himself. It is said that "the standing is never to be judged by the state, but the state by the standing." The New Testament Scriptures relied on as proofs of this doctrine are those in which our faith is imputed for righteousness. The error is in failing to notice that this refers to the forgiveness of sins, and not to the character after justification.

Another mistake is in not distinguishing between the sum total of Christ's merits, called His mediatorial righteousness, and His own personal righteousness, which is not transferable. Character is personal and unimputable.

Another constantly recurring Scripture is the expression, "in Christ"-- used to prove an actual incorporation into His Person. We take up our pen to examine these words. They are not found in the four Gospels nor in the Acts of the Apostles. They are Pauline, being used by Paul, except in I Pet. iii. 16; v. 14. The words, "in the Lord," are peculiar to Paul also. Elsewhere they are found only in Rev. xiv. 13. What does Paul mean by these phrases?

1. He does not mean incorporation into the glorified Person of Christ, for he always (except in I Cor. xv. 18 --"asleep in Jesus") avoids His purely personal name, Jesus, never saying "in Jesus," but he always adds one of His titular names, Christ, or Lord. "In Christ, "or "in the Lord" must mean, then, some intimate relation to His official work.

2. What this relation is will be seen when we observe that while Luke and Peter use the term "Christian," Paul never used it, but uses the more vivid phrase, "in Christ." Let us now examine a favorite text of the imputationists --1 Cor. i. 2: "To them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus." We heartily endorse the comment of Meyer, "the greatest exegete of the nineteenth century": "In Christ -- namely, in His redemptive work, of which Christians have become, and continue to be, partakers, by means of justifying faith (Eph. i. 4; Heb. x. 10)." In the fourth verse, Meyer's note on "in Christ," is "in your fellowship with Christ." His paraphase of the thirtieth verse, "But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption," is the following: "But truly it is God's work that ye are Christians, and so partakers of the greatest Divine blessings, that none of you should in any way boast himself save only in God." Rom. xvi. 7; "In Christ before me" -- Christians before me. Rom. xvi. 10; "Approved in Christ" -- i.e., says Meyer, "the tried Christian." 2 Cor. v. 17; "If any man is in Christ" a Christian, says the same annotator.

Cremer, in his Biblico-Theological Lexicon, enumerates forty-eight texts where this phrase is used with the above meaning, such as "weak in Christ" and "babes in Christ," for feeble Christians; "growing up in Christ," for an advancing Christian; "perfect in Christ" for a believer fully sanctified, or, in the words of Meyer, "perfect as a Christian, in respect to the whole Christian nature." "Holy in Christ" is a phrase foreign to New Testament diction. The general meaning of the words, "in the Lord," is discipleship to the Lord Jesus, as in Rom. xvi. 2: "which are in the Lord"; 1 Cor. vii. 39; To be married in the Lord"; i.e., to a disciple of the Lord Jesus.

The expressions "in Christ" and "in the Lord" are the Pauline way of denoting a saving relation to the Son of God, a union with Him by faith, a union which ceases when the faith decays. It is quite probable that St. Paul's use of this peculiar idiom is an amplification of the words of Christ, "If ye abide in Me," in His parable of the true vine, John xv. 1-7. That He does not here speak of an inseparable and eternal incorporation into His person, is evident from these words: "Every branch in Me that beareth not fruit, He taketh away." That this taking away is no mere temporary break in the saving relation to Christ, but an eternal cutting off, will be seen by reading the sixth verse: "If a man abide not in Me, he is cast forth as a branch and is withered, and men gather them and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." This solemn and expressive language is utterly meaningless, if the phrase "in Me," or "in Christ," means an inalienable standing in Christ wholly independent of one's real character. Those modern champions of imputed holiness, and opponents of inwrought personal purity, the Plymouth brethren, find their air-castle rudely swept away when these words of Jesus are directed against it. A branch in the true vine may die and be sundered and burned.

This is a complete answer to the words of Rev. John Darby to the writer, that "believers are parts of the glorified Person of Jesus Christ, who does not walk about in Heaven dropping His fingers and toes by self-mutilation, but retains every part and particle of His body for ever." The revised version, in Eph. v. 30, omits "of His flesh and of His bones," and thus re moves a seeming proof-text for the incorporatio n theory.

3. This paper would not be complete if we did not refer to the objective use, by St. Paul, of the phrase "in Christ," as representing, not a peculiar union of the believing subject, but the blessings of redemption included in Jesus. In this Apostle's writings, the idiom, "in Christ," has a Godward, or objective meaning, when he describes the provisions for salvation embodied in the Person and work of the Son, and a manward, or subjective meaning, when he speaks of the believer as appropriating those provisions. As a specimen of the objective use, we quote Rom. vi. 23: "But the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord" (R. V.). See also Rom. viii. 2, 39; 1 Cor. i. 4 (R. V.); 2 Cor. v. 19; Gal. ii. 4, iii. 14 (R. V.); Eph. i. 3, ii. 6. 7 (R. V.), iii. 11, iv. 32 (R. V.); Phil. ii. 5; 2 Tim ii. 10. In all these passages Jesus Christ is presented as God's treasury of grace and salvation. In examining these texts the reader will be impressed with the superior precision of the revisors in their translation of the preposition "en," in. There are instances in which this Pauline idiom embraces both the subjective and the objective, notably Rom. vi. 11, "Alive unto God in Christ Jesus" (R. V.). Here the believer appropriates the life that exists in Jesus.

Writers in classical Greek exemplify only the objective use of "en." Thus Sophocles: "I in deed am saved wholly in thee"; Hesiod: "Whether Athens shall be enslaved or freed is now in thee"; says Homer: "Complete victory in the immortal gods."

But St. Paul's use of "in," as expressing the activity of the subject appropriating Christ, from the very nature of the case, has no verbal parallels in profane Greek.

In conclusion, we aver that it is just as reasonable to interpret 1 John v. 19, "The whole world lieth in the evil one" (R. V.), as meaning that the whole world is in itself inherently saintly, but by imputation is wicked in the evil one, as it is to say that the best estate of believers on earth is to be inherently impure, while by imputation they are spotless in Christ. According to the testimony of that cosmopolitan evangelist, Wm. Taylor, imputed holiness, enrobing cherished vileness, is a favorite fiction of the pagans of India. A fakir in his presence professing spotless holiness, was rebuked by the crowd as a liar, a cheat, and an adulterer. Admitting the truth of these charges, the fakir triumphantly exclaimed: "I am vile in myself, but perfectly holy in Vishnu."

To be holy with a retention of the old man, would be an untruth and a flat contradiction (Meyer on Eph. iv. 21.)

Hi everyone.

I don't want to interrupt Dorcas's question, but also I did not notice any mention of Exodus 28:36-38. Maybe this is addressed elsewhere or is in the article and I missed it?

I'm not at all qualified to speak about these things but this is a passage that comes to mind when I read about this subject.

Thanks,

Chris

Hi Katy-Did,

Did you have something to share in regards to the passage from Exodus and the article or the author's view of it?

Thank you,

Chris

Katy-did wrote:

Ephesians 4:24
And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

We have no holiness of our own, but are partakers of HIS Divine nature through his precious promises. 2 Peter 1.

It's Christ's Righteousness as well as His Holiness.

it is not clear whether Daniel Steele believes our old man was crucified with Christ.

Dorcas EXCELLENT QUESTION. AMEN!!

Anyone who believes their old man can become righteous or holy has totally missed the point of what salvation is....The Great Exchange!!

Romans 6-8 perfectly explain!

Put on Christ....The Spirit of teh Life of Christ has set you free from the law of sin and death.

We now, toally surrendered our new nature to God, and the life we now live is the fruit of teh Holiness of God.

Jesus Righteousness is Imputed...justification is a momentary act by God.

Holiness is imputed to the New Man (not the old) to live out that life of His Righteousness.

You have been sanctified through the body of Christ ONCE and for all.

Love in Christ
Katy

That is the common view of many today. But as Steele points out. [b]Holiness is not imputable[/b]That is a myth and a fantasy of many antinomians. Character and holiness is shaped and formed as we partake of His Divine Nature which is the Holy Spirit, which we are sanctified by, but we are to be Holy as He is Holy. Character and holiness are not transfered to us, at least that is what I believe the scriptures state.

Hello Brother;
Would you consider the term "Imparted Righteousness" to be synonomous with Imputed holiness? I am familiar with the doctrines of Imputed and Imparted Righteousness, and I see some corrolations to what you are saying, possibly with some differences. I am only trying to clarify my understanding of your position, not start debate :-)

Thank you Katy, but that isn't what I had asked?

I don't know why the righteousness of Christ being imputed to those "in Him" would be questioned except for those who may not fully understand the implications of the Law.

There must be a perfect righteousness for ALL those who will be in Heaven. No human being, or child of Adam can do this as one sin, ruins forever the state required for entrance into Heaven.

So for a man, any man to ever think that he may be accepted by God for his supposed righteousness is perhaps one of Satan's greatest deceptions. For by this trickery alone many are forced to "work harder" or "look further within" to find that so called holiness that God will somehow accept and open wide the gates of Heaven.

There is one and only one way into Heaven- Christ.

His perfect keeping of the Law(all of it), and His sacrificial death in the place of sinners is the only way. A man is justified as he is given faith to believe this.

The crucifixion is something that happened outside of our existence and is true whether we believe it or not. It is an objective action by which Christ suffered the wrath of God to bear the sins of those whom God foreknew and elected. It has nothing to do with our feelings about the crucifixion, or our holiness, or even our progress in the Christian life, because none of these save us, Christ saves us alone.

To mix man's works into the equation is to create "a Jesus", but it is not "the Jesus" of Scripture who dies for the sheep.

This idea of Jesus plus something else, is nothing new, the Galatian Church was facing the same dilemma as false teachers came in and were teaching that a man must believe in Christ, and be circumcised to be a Christian. The harshest language Paul uses is towards these men who were saying that the work of Christ alone was not enough to save people.

The law, and a law made up by men will never save a person. It will however further lead them into damnation, and self delusion as Satan will get them to think they are doing so well in the Christian life, and they will trample Christ under foot, and count His blood as nothing because they have their own works that they are supposing to hold up to God as a means of righteousness.

Now of course some will say, "Faith alone cannot be enough! Good works must come as well, we ought to be different people."

Very well then, how many good works is enough? who judges these works as "good"?

How different is different enough?

Do you see the endless quest it is? One man over here says, "this do and you shall live", and another over here says , "no do this and live."

But the Gospel says , "believe and receive!"

The Gospel is "good news" to be believed or rejected. It is not steps to a better life, or a better marriage, or a holier sinner. It is the FACT that Jesus Christ died for our sins, and rose again for our justification.

No man can believe this apart from the Holy Spirit convicting him of his sin and need of a Savior, and what the Holy Spirit starts He finishes.

A man that has faith in Christ is as holy the day he believed as he will be the day he dies because his holiness, justification, wisdom, and redemption are in Christ(1 Corinthians 1:30).

I am sure there will much debate about this, but I fear that many have left the simplicity of Christ, and faith alone.

Hi Forevidence...

Thank you for this interesting article. I think that I understand what the author is trying to say, and I must admit that I agree.

A few years ago, I watched a preacher speak about how "God sees his blood covering us rather than our sin" in regard to believers. I've often thought that this is a very silly notion. God doesn't see HIS blood. His eyes look deep within us to see the condition of our hearts. God sees those inner things (including choices, additions, lusts, etc...) that are often hidden under what we falsely consider "God's imputed holiness."

I've heard some believers who partake of questionable lifestyle choices explain that they have "freedom" to indulge themselves, because "it would be impossible to live up to God's standard of holiness." They claimed to rely solely upon the "holiness that God has imputed to us."

The Word of God is expressly clear about choices of conduct and lifestyle -- even in the New Testament. While it is true that it is impossible to live a completely and utterly flawless life after coming to Christ, the grace and mercy of God continues to allow us the opportunity to draw us closer to His image. It almost seems like an insult to the grace of God to claim such nonbinding "imputed holiness" if we choose to continuously indulge in the temptations of this world (the lust of the flesh, lust of the eyes and the pride of life).

I suppose that the author is stating that "holiness" is not a costume that is immediately thrust upon us once we come to Christ. Rather, it is a garment of righteousness in which we must not soil with sin. Remember, the Word of God judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. It is irrelevant to claim a "blank check" of selfish grace simply because we met the Lord. The Lord still desires to know us, fellowship with us, and for us to show forth fruit unto repentance.

:-)

Hi dorcas...

I understand what you're saying and I generally agree. However, that isn't the same as "imputed righteousness and holiness." The word "imputed" signifies that a righteousness and holiness is ingrafted into the believer. The Scriptures you provided (and those which were referred to within this message) seemingly indicate that individuals are MADE righteous and holy (like a newborn child) because of a person is made new.

This is the "tabula rasa" (or "clean slate") referred to in early protestant writing which we are given a "clean slate" (both at birth [contrary to the notion of "divine rights"] and at our second birth). In other words, when we come to Christ, we are made new, righteous and holy. The grace of God allows us to remain in a state of constant sanctification, in which we sanctify ourselves (by coming back to Christ daily) as sin or uncleanliness becomes evident.

I certainly agree that we are made clean by the giving of ourselves to the Lord. How can we come to the Lord (or be "beckoned" to come) if we are not completely holy? Remember that we were still in sin when we were drawn to the Lord. The rebirth didn't take place until after we were drawn to Him.

:-)

Hi dorcas...

I didn't mean that the word "impute" itself only signifies that something is "ingrafted." There are many different definitions for the word. However, in the context of the original post, it seems that some suggest that holiness and righteousness is an almost permanent condition that is ingrafted within a person who becomes a believer. If such holiness and righteousness becomes the very nature of a believer, then why did Paul, Peter, James, etc... waste our time with the pointed remarks about living holy and sanctified lives? Why would they preach about avoiding temptations, lusts, etc... if our very nature has become replaced with God's holiness and righteousness?

That was the point that I was trying to make. Yes, the life of Christ in a sense becomes our own. However, there is still a choice that every believer must make. We do not lose "free will" after coming to Christ. Rather, we continue to freely choose to continue this walk. We choose to live a holy life. We must continually choose to know, fellowship and serve Him (and His desires for our lives).

Even after coming to the Lord, evil is still at work. We must still decide to avoid temptation. The possibility remains that a person who is following the Lord could still "run ahead" and depart from the teachings of Christ. The end of such a person is not good.

:-(

Josef,

The glaring assumptions, harsh accusations, and the blatant questions that are obviously leading are quite grieving. It is quite sad the recent campaign you have set up against holiness, and specifically GianCarlo, with a gross misinterpretation and misunderstanding of his position. I hold similar views, but you never come against my articles, why is that? You have become very divisive lately dear brother.

You're post seems more like a challenge than a humble and honest plea, or even honest questions. I hope GianCarlo does not reply to it, as it is quite obvious you're agenda.

Sorry brother, but it needed to be said.

Your's in service to Jesus Christ,
Evan Schaible
http://ApostolicHeritage.org

EDIT: Below is a link to a wonderful sermon by Gerhard DuTuit. The first bit of the sermon talks about true brokenness in contrast to pride. It is interesting in watching exchanges here on these boards who are actually the ones in obvious pride, and talking so often about a humility they know nothing about.
http://downloads2.sermonindex.us/16/SID16132.mp3

hi, apart from the presence of God there is no holiness.... holy ground was holy because of the thrice holy God was there,holy bible is ink and paper without God...you are holy only if He abides in you and you in Him.Jesus told the rich young ruler call no man good for there is none holy...not one. then he demonstrated clearly that this man who kept the law from youth was far from holy...jimp let us examine our own selves and our own humility or lack thereof.

Believers have freedom from an evil nature. The apostle Paul states, “I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me” (Galatians 2:20.) Do not these words reveal that Christians have been delivered from both inward and outward sin? All true believers have had their hearts cleansed by faith, and seek to be pure and holy. They have a new inward nature that affects the outside. Instead of anger, bitterness and unforgiveness there is the spirit of meekness, gentleness, and self-control. [b]If, as some say, we are only freed from sin at death, then does not this make death the saviour?[/b] Yes, we do allow sin into our lives, but through the Holy Spirit our consciences tell us that we must “confess our sins” so that the faithful and just Lord would “forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9.)

[url=http://www.lwbc.co.uk/Wesley/christian_perfection.htm]John Wesley on Christian Perfection[/url]

-- HOLINESS --

"Not every one that saith unto Me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom, of heaven; but
he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven"

(Matt. vii. 21). Now, "This is the will of God, even your sanctification ... For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness"

(I Thess. iv. 3, 7). Without holiness, "no man can see the Lord" (Heb. xii. 14). Therefore, "Be ye holy!" (I Pet. i. 16).

Any one who reads his Bible in sincerity, "not handling the word of God deceitfully" (2 Cor. iv. 2), will see that it plainly teaches that God expects His people to be holy, and that we must be holy to be happy and useful here and to enter the kingdom of Heaven hereafter. When once a true man is convinced that the Bible teaches these facts and that this is God's will, he will next inquire, "What is this holiness? When can I get it, and how?"

There is much difference of opinion on all these points, although the Bible is simple and
plain on each one to every honest seeker after truth. The Bible tells us that holiness is perfect deliverance from sin.

"The Blood of Jesus Christ ... cleanseth us from ALL sin" (I John 1:7). Not one bit of sin is left, for your old man is crucified with Him, "that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin" (Rom. vi. 6), for we are "made free from sin" (Rom. vi. 18). And we are henceforth to reckon ourselves "dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God, through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. vi. 11).

The Bible also tells us that it is "perfect love," which must, in the very nature of the case, expel from the heart all hatred and every evil temper contrary to love, just as you must first empty a cup of all oil that may be in it before you can fill it with water. Thus, holiness is a state in which there is no anger, malice, blasphemy, hypocrisy, envy, love of ease, selfish desires for good opinion of men, shame of the Cross, worldliness, deceit, debate, contention, covetousness, nor any evil desire or tendency in the heart. It is a state in which there is no longer any doubt or fear. It is a state in which God is loved and trusted with a perfect heart. But though the heart may be perfect, the head may be very imperfect, and through the imperfections of his head -- of his memory, his judgment, his reason -- the holy man may make many mistakes. Yet God looks at the sincerity of his purpose, at the love and faith of his heart -- not at the imperfections of the head -- and calls him a holy man. Holiness is not absolute perfection, which belongs to God only; nor is it angelic perfection; nor is it Adamic perfection -- for, no doubt, Adam had a perfect head as well as a perfect heart before he sinned against God. But it is Christian perfection -- such perfection and obedience of the heart as a poor fallen creature, aided by almighty power and boundless grace, can give.

It is that state of heart and life which consists in being and doing all the time -- not by fits and starts, but steadily -- just what God wants us to be and do.

Jesus said, "Make the tree good, and his fruit good" (Matt. xii. 33). Now, an apple-tree is an apple-tree all the time, and can bring forth nothing but apples. So holiness is that perfect renewal of our nature that makes us essentially good, so that we continually bring forth fruit unto God -- "the fruit of the Spirit," which "is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance" (Gal. v. 22, 23), with never a single work of the flesh grafted in among this heavenly fruitage.

Hello Josef_Urban thanks for sharing.

“The youngest in grace magnified Christ”.Harry A. Ironside
----------------------------------------

The young man was carried up on a high mountain
The old man on his way to Damascus with a pocket full of warrants
The new man ------ Drank-----------and gave Thanks. Eddie

THere is some truth in the words of men.

Hello...

I think that it might do us well to consider the opposite of that which this article expresses. Is there anyone so bold as to claim that they are "holy" while living in sin? To what extent would we claim that God has "imputed" holiness onto us -- and then we perpetually live in a state of sin? It seems that calling such a person "holy" because of some supposed "imputed holiness" would simply be untrue.

How many people have you met who have come to Christ out of sincerity and have walked with the Lord for years? How many of these have ever been led astray because of the cares of this world, the deceiptfulness of wealth, etc...? What if such a man or woman continually "gives in" to the fulfillment of such lusts? Could such a person still claim "imputed holiness?"

I have met individuals who live in sin yet claim that they have the holiness of God within them. They dismiss any notion that holy living is in any way connected with holiness -- because they claim that it is impossible to fulfill the Law or 100% holiness. They claim, "[i]God doesn't see my flesh -- He sees Christ in me[/i]!" How silly! God looks into us and examines the thoughts and intentions of our heart!

I suggest that it isn't pure perfection that makes a person "holy" -- but the attitude, heart-condition and desires of such a person. Does that person make an effort to live a "holy" life? Does that person "flee" from the thought of sin and unrighteousness?

Just something to think about...

:-)

Samuel Brengles Testimony

On January 9, 1885, at about nine o'clock in the morning, God sanctified my soul. I was in
my own room at the time, but in a few minutes I went out and met a man and told him what God had done for me.

The next morning, I met another friend on the street and told him the blessed story. He shouted and praised God and urged me to preach full salvation and confess it everywhere. God used him to encourage and help me. So the following day I preached on the subject as clearly and forcibly as I could, and ended with my testimony. God blessed the word mightily to others, but I think He blessed it most to myself. That confession put me on record. It cut the bridges down behind me. Three worlds were now looking at me as one who professed that God had given him a clean heart. I could not go back now. I had to go forward. God saw that I meant to be true till death. So two mornings after that, just as I got out of bed and was reading some of the words of Jesus, He gave me such a blessing as I never had dreamed a man could have this side of Heaven. It was a heaven of love that came into my heart. I walked out over Boston Common before breakfast weeping for joy and praising God. Oh, how I loved! In that hour I knew Jesus and I loved Him till it seemed my heart would break with love. I loved the sparrows, I loved the dogs, I loved the horses, I loved the little urchins on the streets, I loved the strangers who hurried past me, I loved the heathen -- I loved the whole world.

Do you want to know what holiness is? It is pure love. Do you want to know what the baptism of the Holy Ghost is? It is not a mere sentiment. It is not a happy sensation that passes away in a night. It is a baptism of love that brings every thought into captivity to the Lord Jesus (2 Cor. x. 5); that casts out all fear (I John iv. 18); that burns up doubt and unbelief as fire burns tow; that makes one "meek and lowly in heart" (Matt. xi. 29); that makes one hate uncleanness, lying and deceit, a flattering tongue and every evil way with a perfect hatred; that makes Heaven and Hell eternal realities; that makes one patient and gentle with the froward and sinful; that makes one "pure ... peaceable ... easy to be entreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy" (Jas. iii. 17); that brings one into perfect and unbroken sympathy with the Lord

Jesus Christ in His toil and travail to bring a lost and rebel world back to God. God did all that for me, bless His holy name! Oh, how I had longed to be pure! Oh, how I had hungered and thirsted for God -- the living God! And He gave me the desire of my heart.

He satisfied me -- I weigh my words -- He satisfied me! He satisfied me!

These ten years have been wonderful. God has become my Teacher, my Guide, my
Counselor, my All and in All.

He has allowed me to be perplexed and tempted, but it has been for my good. I have no
complaint to make against Him. Sometimes it has seemed that He had left me alone, but it has been
as the mother who stands away from her little child to teach him to use his own legs that he may walk. He has not suffered me to fall.
He has been with my mouth and helped me to speak of Jesus and His great salvation in a way to instruct, comfort and save other souls. He has been light to my darkness, strength to my
weakness, wisdom in my foolishness, knowledge in my ignorance.

When my way has been hedged up and it seemed that no way could be found out of my
temptations and difficulties, He has cut a way through for me, just as He opened the Red Sea for
Israel.

When my heart has ached, He has comforted me; when my feet had well-nigh slipped, He has held me up; when my faith has trembled, He has encouraged me; when I have been in sore
need, He has supplied all my need; when I have been hungry, He has fed me; when I have thirsted, He has given me living water.

Oh, glory to God!

What has He not done for me?

What has He not been to me?

I recommend Him to the world.

Josef,

I only posted that you might have an opportunity to see the spirit of you're posts. While I do disagree with you theologically, and doctrinally, I think we can avoid accusative and contentious attacks. Just because there are differing doctrinal opinions does not mean that you have to attack them, cannot the Lord uphold His truth?

There is a place for disassociation, but for open and blatant sin. The only time I can ever recall from scripture a warranted excommunication, or anyone being anathematized (being called a heretic) is in consequence of teaching that the resurrection is already past. The holiness people are a far cry from that false teaching.

Actually, the very word heresy is interesting in the Greek as it does not mean someone who teaches false doctrine at all - we have been conditioned to call someone a heretic who teaches false doctrine be the Roman Catholic Church. Essentially what we are doing is playing the role of the inquisition and stating that if we could, we would burn you at the stake when we call someone that harsh word.

The word heretic means 'divisive person' - or one who causes division. That is off of the top of my head, so I have not exactly defined it for you. So if we were to measure this difference upon New Testament grounds we would have to conclude that the one initiating the division, meaning the one who not initiates the discussion, but rather the origin of the divisive spirit is the heretic.

So as Paul said to Titus, "A heretic after the first and second admonition reject..." - meaning someone who has a haughty, contentious spirit must be, after being exhorted twice, rejected until repentance and restitution can be made. The hardest thing for any Christian to do is reject a heretic, or cast out someone who is causing division, as it can all to easily be turned around and said that the one who thrust out the man is the origin of the division. But let the Lord be our defense, and He knows them that are His.

Anyhow Josef, please dear brother, refrain from these types of posts - they do no good to the body of Christ or the glory of God. I know I hold no authority on these boards as one who can make statements like these, but let us please "submit ourselves one to another" and "esteem each other better than ourselves". God has invested much in you, and I would hate to see that thrown away because of a silly doctrine you disagree with.

Yours in service to Jesus Christ,
Evan Schaible
http://ApostolicHeritage.org

It is possible to walk before the Lord with a perfect heart! God said to Abraham, "I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect" (Genesis 17:1).

God also said to the children of Israel, "Thou shalt be perfect with the Lord your God" (Deuteronomy 18:13).

David determined in his heart to obey this command. He said, "I will behave myself wisely in a perfect way... I will walk within my house with a perfect heart" (Psalm 101:2).

Scripture also points out that Solomon fell short of God's command to be perfect: "His heart was not perfect with the Lord his God, as was the heart of David his father... [He] went not fully after the Lord, as did David his father" (1 Kings 11:4-6).

We see the Lord's command to be perfect in the New Testament as well. Jesus said, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" (Matthew 5:48).

Paul wrote, "That we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus" (Colossians 1:28); and, in the same letter, "...that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God" (4:12).

And Peter said, "But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto His eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, establish, strengthen, settle you" (1 Peter 5:10).

David was said to have had a perfect heart toward God "all the days of his life," yet he failed the Lord often. His life was marked forever by adultery and a notorious murder.
"The Lord searcheth all hearts" (1 Chronicles 28:9). The perfect heart cries out with David, "Search me, O God, and know my thoughts: and see if there be any wicked way in me" (Psalm 139:23-24).

God also said to Jeremiah, "I the Lord search the heart" (Jeremiah 17:10). The Hebrew meaning for this phrase is, "I penetrate; I examine deeply." Scripture says, "For the Spirit searcheth all things, yea the deep things of God" (1 Corinthians 2:10).

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

Though you don't realize it, claiming perfection in the flesh is SIN in itself, not holiness! And it's heresy. Anyone who claims their flesh is sinless and perfect is a liar and a deceiever, deceiving their own selves, and such have not the truth of God in them!

What do you mean by "sin"? I don't ask to really argue, but to know what you mean by "Anyone who claims their flesh is sinless and perfect is a liar."

Do you mean:

That there is a pushing towards sin because of the flesh.

That there is always sins being committed because of the flesh. (always comitting sins)

There is always a guilt because of our flesh. (always guilty of committing sins)

We are always in a state of sin because of the flesh.

--

Do you see the flesh to be the same as our physical body?

It is essential that we understand this to enable us to apprehend the ‘workings’ of Entire Sanctification and how to obtain it. Here is a danger zone concerning interpretation, and Satan has capitalised on it by bringing confusion over the old man, the old self and the crucified life. Paul clearly shows us in these verses in Romans 7 that the ‘I’ or ‘Self’ is something different from the Sin Nature. It was the Old Man, the sin nature, that was crucified on the cross ‘with Him’ Romans 6:6b – not ‘Self’. The crucified dying-to-self-life has to be applied (our part) before the Lord can deliver us from the Sin Nature

Thanks for clarifying.

We are divided in spirit, soul and the flesh body.

Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Who's Spirit do we as born again believers, now have?

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

This Spirit cannot sin, because it is His Spirit that dwells in us.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His Seed remaineth in him: and He cannot sin, because he is born of God.

What part of the Human being is it that cannot sin? The Spirit because it is the Incorruptable Seed of the Father Jesus Christ Himself that is our Spirit.

So, our Spirit which is the Spirit of Christ cannot sin.

What is the next portion of a man, that is body, soul, and spirit, that God is dealing with?

The Soul-Mind. This is where the Mind of Christ dwells, this is where the Holy Spirit teaches us the Mind of Christ.

1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.

Who teaches us this mind of Christ and how we are to renew our old mind to this New Mind of Christ?

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what [is] that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

How are all things brought into the renewing of our mind to all that is righteousness?

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Who teaches us this righteousness that we have been made by the Christ that is in us.

Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing (Holy Spirit) teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in Him.

Now that we know that we are perfect in Spirit and being made perfect in the Soul-Mind, where do the sins of the flesh come from.

1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 John 1:7-10 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

So how do we reconcile this sin in first John, with the "cannot sin" in 1 John 3: 9?

First of all we know that Jesus Christ cannot sin and it is His Spirit that dwells in us.

The Spirit; Perfect. The Soul-Mind being made perfect is where the Holy Spirit Teacher dwells.

Then the Flesh is the only place a man can sin.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

What does this say, "if any man sin", here it is. "If any man sin", this is where the sins of the flesh are. A man may sin, that is the flesh sins of the believer, this is where we need an Advocate with the Father which is Jesus Christ the Righteous.

Now in the flesh we can be forgiven and must run to the Advocate, Jesus Christ and His Propitiation with the Father. The Father is who we must confess the sins of the flesh to and then what happens?

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

The end being, in the Spirit we cannot sin, In the Soul-Mind we are being taught not to sin by the Mind of Christ, through the Holy Spirit teaching, but if the Mind given to the Flesh, it will sin.

So we can separate the sins of the flesh from the Spirit that cannot sin and understand how we are to become perfect.

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

As Paul, not that I have attained it but that is what I press on toward, that is the High Calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Philippians 3:12-16 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you. Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Let us press toward the mark, that is, "be ye perfect even as your Father in Heaven is Perfect". Keeping our minds on the thing of the Spirit, not the things of the flesh and its sin.

Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Do we sin? Probably. Do we have to sin? No.
Are we Sinners in Christ Jesus? No. In the Flesh still, yes.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 7:24-25 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord: Phillip