Depression: A refining process used by God

D

deltadom Jan 21, 2008

In this world depression is viewed generally as a bad thing even in the church.
The famous missionary such as Adnorium judson who had to dig the grave for his second wife got depressed the first american missionary.

In a work driven, money, greed driven society people who do not fit into the system are seen as lesser than everyone else.

I have a friend who liturally can not work, and because he cannot work he is seen even by church members as sometimes not being vaild.

William Cowper who wrote the Hymn oh what a closer walk with god was another man who was in a state of depression all the time.
Great friend of John Newton

I think I remember reading a quote that the missionaries worst nightmare is depression and I cannot find where the quote comes from.

I wish I could tell all the great things god has told me when I have been depressed. I also find that people who have been depressed look at people who are struggling in a lot more gentler manner than someone who has not been through depression.

Sometimes we are so busy that we do not get time to analyse things

Re 2:2 - Show Context
I know your works, your labor, your patience, and that you cannot bear those who are evil. And you have tested those who say they are apostles and are not, and have found them liars;

Re 2:5 - Show Context
Remember therefore from where you have fallen; repent and do the first works, or else I will come to you quickly and remove your lampstand from its place--unless you repent.

Re 2:9 - Show Context
I know your works, tribulation, and poverty (but you are rich); and I know the blasphemy of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan.

Re 2:13 - Show Context
I know your works, and where you dwell, where Satan's throne is. And you hold fast to My name, and did not deny My faith even in the days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was killed among you, where Satan dwells.

Re 2:19 - Show Context
I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience; and as for your works, the last are more than the first.

Re 2:23 - Show Context
I will kill her children with death, and all the churches shall know that I am He who searches the minds and hearts. And I will give to each one of you according to your works.

Re 2:26 - Show Context
And he who overcomes, and keeps My works until the end, to him I will give power over the nations--

Re 3:1 - Show Context
"And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,'These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

Re 3:2 - Show Context
Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God.

Re 3:8 - Show Context
I know your works. See, I have set before you an open door, and no one can shut it; for you have a little strength, have kept My word, and have not denied My name.

Re 3:15 - Show Context
I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot.

Re 9:20 - Show Context
But the rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, that they should not worship demons, and idols of gold, silver, brass, stone, and wood, which can neither see nor hear nor walk.

Re 14:13 - Show Context
Then I heard a voice from heaven saying to me, "Write: 'Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on.' " "Yes," says the Spirit, "that they may rest from their labors, and their works follow them."

Re 15:3 - Show Context
They sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying: "Great and marvelous are Your works, Lord God Almighty! Just and true are Your ways, O King of the saints!

Re 18:6 - Show Context
Render to her just as she rendered to you, and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her.

Re 20:12 - Show Context
And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.

Re 20:13 - Show Context
The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works.

People can be seen doing alot of things but whether they are inspired by the Lord is another thing.
It sometimes take depression to wake people up or even me up to the fact, god does not want me to be doing this.

Living by Works is sometimes hidden by the fact that People do not live by Faith such as in todays society. We should save the planet, reduce the carbon footprint , get rid of poverty, but not including or even asking Jesus must be in my eyes the worst.

A world which wants to solve its own problems without needing a saviour is probably the most proud you can get. I think God has a right to judge these movements.

Depression is sometimes a wakeup call and a realization that we need a saviour.

S

sermonindex Jan 21, 2008

deltadom,

Interesting question you brought here.

I think I was born predisposed to depression, or maybe it was caused by environment.

I will say, depression is oppression, and is of Satan, not God.

But, I will say, no human effort or works of the flesh can ever really overcome depression.

I know depression can also be caused by an imbalance in the brain, and I am not talking about this.

I came to realize that my old sin nature will always be depressed, and have that depressed nature. But in Christ, as a New Creation, with a renewed mind....and with so many scriptures that we are to rejoice in the Lord, no longer I but Christ in me....we weren't given the spirit of fear, but of Love , Peace and a sound mind.

I love this verse, because the opposite is hate, turmoil, and an unsound mind...causing all sorts of depressed thoughts and behavior.

How can one be depressed when walking in Love and filled with God's Love?

How can one be depressed when one has PEACE of Mind( the Peace of God) and Peace with God?

How can one be depressed when one is at REST in the Lord?

And here we find the true heart of Faith, the faith of partaking of HIS divine Nature...

The Just shall live by Faith...the Faith of Christ in you.

When I first was saved, I knew the Lord as my helper......

As we grow, we come to know the Lord more fully as our very Life.......and what a day of rejoicing that is!!!!!

Do I ever get depressed now? Yes, but it's when I'm not trusting the Lord for something, and bring upon myself worry, anger etc.

Much of depression is prolonged anger...not getting what we want when we want it.... our flesh.

Trust in the Lord, and He will bring it to pass. Maybe not the way you thought or hoped, but we all die to our own desires and dreams as we realize His desires and dreams for US...beyond our wildest dreams!!!

Love in Christ
Katy

S

sermonindex Jan 21, 2008

I wish I could tell all the great things god has told me when I have been depressed. I also find that people who have been depressed look at people who are struggling in a lot more gentler manner than someone who has not been through depression.

Amen Brother!

S

sermonindex Jan 21, 2008

I also find that people who have been depressed look at people who are struggling in a lot more gentler manner than someone who has not been through depression.

Isn't this true for many situations in life.

Maybe you have had difficult children or a difficult marriage. You thought being a Christian made life perfect, and then life hits you between the eyes. Now you are more compassionate towards divorce, or that friend who's child that just is so rebellious. You know, you've been there.

God uses many situations in life to soften our hearts and make us more compassionate.

2 Corinthians 1 talks about suffering so we can minister to those who also suffer.

Katy

S

sermonindex Jan 21, 2008

Good Post Dom, and always needed to be brought up from time to time for His people.
Depression is just plain human and can be used for HIS Glory.

For you consideration ...

http://www.breggin.com/

http://www.antipsychiatry.org/

http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/There-are-NO-Chemical-Imbalances.htm

One may want to look up "Choice Theory" also.

Jer 20:11 But the LORD is with me as a mighty terrible one: therefore my persecutors shall stumble, and they shall not prevail: they shall be greatly ashamed; for they shall not prosper: their everlasting confusion shall never be forgotten.
Jer 20:12 But, O LORD of hosts, that triest the righteous, and seest the reins and the heart, let me see thy vengeance on them: for unto thee have I opened my cause.
Jer 20:13 Sing unto the LORD, praise ye the LORD: for he hath delivered the soul of the poor from the hand of evildoers.
~~[i]~~Jer 20:14 Cursed be the day wherein I was born: let not the day wherein my mother bore me be blessed.
Jer 20:15 Cursed be the man who brought tidings to my father, saying, A man child is born unto thee; making him very glad.
Jer 20:16 And let that man be as the cities which the LORD overthrew, and repented not: and let him hear the cry in the morning, and the shouting at noontide;
Jer 20:17 Because he slew me not from the womb; or that my mother might have been my grave, and her womb to be always great with me.
Jer 20:18 Wherefore came I forth out of the womb to see labor and sorrow, that my days should be consumed with shame? [/i]

Then there's Elijah, Johah, Moses, David ....

& you & me :cry:

S

sermonindex Jan 21, 2008

Depression is just plain human and can be used for HIS Glory.

The Glory that is brought to the Lord is to bring every thought into the obedience of Jesus Christ for the pulling down of strong holds.

This, as one who has been severely afflicted with depression and suicidal all my life, along with my sister in law who did commit suicide due to depression (and a christian..a Baby one) I do not recommend praising God for such things, but Praise Him for His deliverance in setting us free through Jesus Christ.

Yes, Jesus spoke to me while depressed and said, depression is from our old sin nature.

Our Human flesh nature is at emnity with God!!!!Always will be!

How does our old sin nature bring Glory to God, except that Glory be given that God through Jesus Christ can heal our minds and sets us free from the law of sin and death.

The JOY of the Lord is my strength!!!

Love in Christ
Katy

S

sermonindex Jan 21, 2008

Katy, empathy is strong. I too have been wanting to exit this planet since very early childhood, but depression only came as I lay in bed at night - otherwise, I was the class clown and leader of the pact through-out my life --- but the LORD showed me that - like Joseph's life - all things are to make us who He wanted us to be in the future.

If we destroy that providence of His and start the psychological replacement of how to look at our pasts and present - we'll stay depressed.
If we can see that GOD knew us before the foundations and had plans to use our environments and all from birth - to His Glory - to make us who we presently can be and could be and will be - if we see His Hand in all - we'll be FREE !
Like Joseph and the rest that we read of in the O.T.. Moses, etc., etc..

Yes, I do Praise Him "in the storm" because of Romans 8:28 being FOR vs. 29.

Sometimes, there 'is' some truth in, "depression is anger kept inward" ... but anger must be dealt with Biblically - and that's our challenge.

Did you read those verses from Jeremiah ??

GOD Bless you Sis. amen

Edit: meant to add about Jeremiah and the others from the O.T. that got "depressed" - that it is not necessarily from our old sin natures - but just human. Like those Missionaries mentioned above. And sometimes it's the Holy Spirit Grieving for others. etc.

S

SimpleLiving Jan 21, 2008

As this website is full of preachers who tell it like it is, with no holding back, forgive me if I do the same.

As Katy said, there ~~[i]~~is[/i] a type of clinical depression which "needs" to be treated with medication. On this I can't speak with wisdom because I am not a doctor or psychologist. Even then, that doctor or psychologist would have to be a Bible-believing, walking with God Christian before I would take any of their advice on the matter! After all, you do not give pills to someone who is oppressed instead of depressed.

Depression, of which I have past experience, is selfishness. When a person becomes depressed, all of their thoughts are upon themselves and no one else. They are being ruled by their emotions and it can lead to sin. Emotions lead people astray.

The depressed person does not need to be molly-coddled or pitied. There are times to show compassion, yes, but not to the one who uses their depression to gain sympathy from others.

Americans are depressed and I can tell you why! It's as Brother Leonard Ravenhill says, "They're entertaining themselves to death!" There is a longing in the heart of every man, woman and child that only God can fulfill. Yet, America has tried to fulfill that longing with anything and everything else. Entertainment, devices, inventions, lusts, desires, money, other people... People become depressed when they realize that the great longing inside them isn't being fulfilled by these things, yet they still reject God.

Depression is nothing more than rejecting God, selfishness, not concerned for anyone else, wanting to be happy, thinking about nothing but yourself. It is of the devil and must be dealt with as such. Christians can get depressed, yes, but when it happens, the Christian should immediately recognize it as an attack and deal with it as one and not go along with it for awhile first.

Look at it as Satan in your ear, saying: "Poor you. When are things going to go right for you? Everyone else seems to be happy so why can't I be? Does God want me miserable, depressed, hurting and struggling ~~[i]~~all[/i] the time? Why can't something good happen for me just once?"

We cannot stroke our emotions by playing along even for a minute! That will give the devil his foothold! We must combat it immediately with scripture. Be prepared! If you're prone to attacks of depression, fore-arm yourself with the scriptures you need to fight back! You will be held accountable for it! When you stand before the Great Throne on Judgement Day, the "rough childhood" or "depression" argument won't work with God like it does in our human courts. Don't doubt it!

Three verses in the Psalms state the very same thing:
Psalm 42:5 and vs 11 and Psalm 43:5 all say :

Why are you cast down, O my soul?
And why are you disquieted within me?
Hope in God, for I shall yet praise Him
For the help of His countenance.

In the psalmist despair, he chastises himself for being down but he's also wise enough to know how to get out of it. He knows that no matter how he feels, or what the circumstances around him may be, that he has his hope in God. Praising God will lift him out of it. He's being honest and saying that he's depressed and he tells God about it, but only to get it off his chest.

The cure for depression is prayer, Bible study and applying the Word. Especially when you don't feel like it. In cases where it's anger-related, get pastoral counseling and apply forgiveness! Have friends or church members there to support and pray for you. If they're worth their salt, they will. But be careful to not have to rely on them time and time again! Go to God and together you can fight and win this battle once and for all. Don't become self-absorbed but put your focus on Christ and others.

S

sermonindex Jan 21, 2008

SimpleLiving wrote:
As Katy said, there is a type of clinical depression which "needs" to be treated with medication. On this I can't speak with wisdom because I am not a doctor or psychologist.

Now I am depressed.

Dear dear brother - please, if you can, read more from those links I left. They'll give more links.

S

sermonindex Jan 21, 2008

Simpleliving,
Thank you so very much for your post.

As far as clinical depression is concerned:

It is a fact (SOME)women suffer from a severe postpartum depression after child birth.

It is a fact people who have been on pain killers from prolonged pain also suffer depression caused by these medications.

A man, after taking a new form of antibiotic had a severe reaction leaving him wanting to commit suicide. He recognized this was not norman, and immediately took himself to the hospital.

There are these exceptions to the rule, and it is a cruel hoax to say all depression is in one's head.

But, other then medical reasons such as these, Simplelivings article is absolutely correct.

However, We must be extremely sensative to those suffering this horrible most debilitating existance.

Added: My sister in law, asked her pastor a question. He didn't realize until after why she even asked it. He never preached again feeling he may have said something, or not the correct something.

GOD can heal your mind, and it brings HIM Glory to do so.

Love in Christ
Katy

S

sermonindex Jan 21, 2008

Just for the record - I see truth in each member's posts - Except the "need" for the very dangerous psychotropics "anti-depressants".

HOW did ~~[b]~~we[/b] manage since Job's day (and before and after) without them?

One must Really research anti-depressants and why they are being PUSHED for the smallest things now a days and their affects on the brain and after affects to understand why they are the one and only class of drugs that I really cannot endorse.

No harm meant - believe me.

I've had organic depression from Lyme disease besides situational - "But God" ....

S

SimpleLiving Jan 21, 2008

HE_Reigns wrote:

Quote:
SimpleLiving wrote:
As Katy said, there is a type of clinical depression which "needs" to be treated with medication. On this I can't speak with wisdom because I am not a doctor or psychologist.
Now I am depressed.
Dear dear brother - please, if you can, read more from those links I left. They'll give more links.

Believe me, I'm right there with you. That's why I put the word "needs" in quotations. Looking back, I don't believe I stated it well enough. Being that I have no experience with "clinical" depression, I didn't think it fair to completely disregard the possibility of it.

I am of the personal belief that depression, in any form, is overcome through prayer, the Word, the application of the Word, getting our minds off of ourselves and onto Christ and other people. If drugs are necessary, there's something far worse than depression going on.

"But God" ....

But God... indeed! Therein lies the victory!

S

sermonindex Jan 21, 2008

Good Brother, I assumed as much from you. I do believe you.

Interviewing a chief secular Psychiatrist, when it was still in my mind to make that field my life's goal and career, I asked about "helping other people as a help to depression" - and this secular Dr. said, "By all means - that is the best way." ;-)

I knew that, because my "leader of the pact" mentality since kindergarten - while in my 3rd home, was to lead my friends to help the "under-dogs" - which brought such joy to my life - that I've survived 7 unsafe homes.

Thank you! And glad you're at SI.

Some links again for others ...

http://www.breggin.com/

http://www.antipsychiatry.org/

http://www.antidepressantsfacts.com/There-are-NO-Chemical-Imbalances.htm

S

SimpleLiving Jan 21, 2008

Helping other people is - forgive the word - addictive, isn't it?!
I love serving other people. Knowing that you are serving people that God loves causes you to love them, too! And, oh, how it pleases the Father, which is our great joy! I believe the joy we feel while serving others is actually the Father's joy!

Aside from being in His presence, I am at my happiest when I'm serving! That certainly appears to add proof to our side of the depression question.

I've been there. I've been depressed. I couldn't function. A doctor told me I was depressed and prescribed Xanax for me. THAT was my cure! The doctor thought I was in such a bad state that I needed drugs to get better. That was the kick in the pants that I needed! Drugs give people an excuse to not deal with the real issues. They're an enabler, when it comes to depression. Once people start taking them, they begin to rely on their affects and trust in them. It's not what God wants for anyone!

I wasn't even walking with God when all this happened! I knew, on my own, that I was in the middle of big pity party and the cure was to stop thinking about myself. And I was right. I never even had the prescription filled. I walked out of that office cured.

T

tjservant Jan 21, 2008

I also find that people who have been depressed look at people who are struggling in a lot more gentler manner than someone who has not been through depression.

I know a lot of times we tend to say things like, “I know what you are going through” when…if truth be told…we have no idea. Losing a spouse is not the same as losing a parent. Losing a parent is not the same as losing a child. And losing a child is not the same as losing a sibling. While our grief may share many similarities…and we may know more than others…it is still different…personal…on many levels. I just want to say that if someone has not experienced “full tilt” clinical depression…they do not know what it is like. The same is to be said of panic attacks. No book will ever satisfactorily describe these horrid conditions.

My heart goes out to those suffering.

I would like to recommend the article "A Look at Depression Through the Lens of Scripture" by Gary Gilley found ~~[url=http://www.thepathlesstraveled.net/documents/122.html]~~Here[/url]

S

sermonindex Jan 21, 2008

Simplelife, you mentioned something earlier that hit home with me as well.

To treat depressed people with PITY is actually the worse thing anyone can do. It is not the same as compassion.

Pity destroyed...it's condescending, and insulting and the worse medicine you can give someone. It keeps a person in their sickness, and will suck you in as well.

Misery loves company.....!

Psychobabble also is extremely dangerous.

Sigmund Fraud is not Calvary either, or is he the Power we find in Jesus Christ.

There are many, I'm sorry to say , well meaning Christians who can actually hinder then help, who present a crossless Christ.

Love in Christ
Katy

T

tjservant Jan 21, 2008

There are many, I'm sorry to say , well meaning Christians who can actually hinder then help, who present a crossless Christ.

Amen.

S

SimpleLiving Jan 21, 2008

Katy,

I'm very grateful that you saw my post for what I meant it to be. Depression ~~[i]~~is[/i] a horrible thing to go through. It's more than just "being sad." and it's not easy by any reasoning. I hoped I didn't come across as harsh and unfeeling because it wasn't my intention. I do have compassion for those who are struggling with it. It's easy for me to get angry ~~[b]~~at[/b] depression because I went through it. It can be crippling if gone untreated correctly. Treating it with drugs adds to the crippling, like putting a band-aid on a gaping wound. It's not really helping, it's just giving the appearance that it is.

Well meaning people whose only wish is that their depressed friend or love one feel better really aren't helping when they treat a worldly problem (depression) with another worldly problem (pity). Self-pity is only made stronger when its fed the pity of others. We must starve it, and not feed it, in order to kill it.

This is one of the reasons its important to be involved in a good, Bible-believing church whose members are walking with God and not playing at being Christians. Part of our purpose is to help each other with counsel and accountability. To lift each other up before the Lord and bathe them with prayer in His presence. But, first and foremost, I firmly believe that God ought to be sought first. He is our source, not people. If we are seeking the help of people, before we seek God, then those people become idols in our lives.

D

deltadom Jan 21, 2008

One thing I want to define is the difference between opression and depression. Opression is spiritual say that you have done something wrong like Saul I was say he was opressed rather than depressed because he had lost the spirit of the Lord. Job I say was depressed. This is a hard question. In our country we deal with everything with a pill or clinical. I do believe in clinical depression and pills can heal.

2 Corinthians 4:8-10
8 We are hard pressed on every side, yet not crushed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed-- 10 always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body.

Elijah
1Ki 19:4 - Show Context
But he himself went a day's journey into the wilderness, and came and sat down under a broom tree. And he prayed that he might die, and said, "It is enough! Now, Lord, take my life, for I am no better than my fathers!"

Job is an example in itselfs and the Psalms.

Job,Moses, Elijah, David and Others in the bible experienced depression.
I would say opression is
demonic.

Depression is nothing more than rejecting God, selfishness, not concerned for anyone else, wanting to be happy, thinking about nothing but yourself. It is of the devil and must be dealt with as such.

I would disagree as Job and Elijah obeyed god yet still got depressed.

N

narrowpath Jan 21, 2008

I know depression from experience. For me it is God's agent to drive me to mortification of myself. A dead man has nothing to bemoan. I can recall many occassions where I went out into the dark of the night to seek God and came back with my burden lifted and overflowing with praise and thankgiving or swimming in a river of divine peace.

Philip

S

sermonindex Jan 21, 2008

I'm grateful this Topic came up Today.

I've been depressed for about 11 days. Not for myself, but nonetheless, it would like to take one down.

I'm going to be frank here (next week I'll be Sam :), but some have asked me "why" I seem more "mellow" within a certain time frame in comparison to another.

Well, here comes true confessions time - Late Neuro Lyme eats your brain. No joke.

I was infected three times in the 90's but it wasn't until much later that we found out that the 30 days of doxycycline I was prescribed each time was not sufficient to "take it out". So, progressive damage was being done to many organs of my body but of course, most noticeably, to my brain.
This in turn, affected every brain function there is - DUH - that was really needed to be said - huh?

Organic depression, anxiety and a host of other manifestations began to present and well - I can only describe the years of struggling as hell on earth.

BUT GOD ... once the diagnosis was made - I had to turn to HIM or "lose it". This was when I had the Break-thru.

I knew God was bigger than my "brain" after having worked with so many patients with dementia, alzheimers and psych.

I refused the anti-depressants because of what I knew about them.

I took several breaks from the internet to seek Him.

Knowing we were dealing with a "physical" entity, my faith muscles were stretched to their max.

BUT GOD...

During this time - God has used this nightmarish disintegration of my most needed (I thought :) organ to double my compassion for those who do have organic or situational depression or any other mental anguish and physical problems.

GOD said - "die to self - no one needs a brain -
just TRUST ME - I won't let you go."

:-D

Romans 8:28 is FOR 29.

Since then, my memory is better and I can read whatever HE wants me to read. If it's not from Him, my brain won't read it.
It's sort of like a blind person's use of that stick they carry. He's been the stick.

This thread reminds me again of the suicide thread we had last summer.

I came yo close friends. BUT GOD...

So feeling for those who go through these things comes close to home for me personally.

There are several causes of depression - "hope deferred, losses, unresolved guilt, false guilt and all the others that others have mentioned - but from the best sources, the "chemical imbalance" deal has been ruled out. Any possiblity of any "chemical imbalance" comes "after" the thought processes start going south. So drugs are not the answer - but Very Biblical counseling, prayer and FAITH is.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing The Word of GOD and it also helps if you know others are praying for you. :-)

One part of even "Choice Theory", is Love.
Choice theory explains that the person is "choosing to depress" - rather than take affirmative action of whatever sort needed.
Love for others helps. Love can keep you and others alive. His Love is self-less. Sometimes "tough-love" can depress us - but sometimes His Love is "tough" ... if it will snatch a soul from the enemy's delusions.

I Bless GOD that against all prognosis-es of man - that even brain eating entities can be reversed or over-ridden by The Creator Himself.

These type actions also, are a God-send for ~~[u]~~us[/u] - http://www.prisoneralert.com/ and getting a monthly subscription to The Voice of the Martyrs ....... "actions" like that, engages GOD (and good chemistry) all the faster - as LS also stated.

GOD BLESS and thanks again for this discussion Today!

S

sermonindex Jan 21, 2008

If we are seeking the help of people, before we seek God, then those people become idols in our lives.

You don't seem harsh at all, and I knew exactly what you meant.

When we become the person another becomes dependent on, they will never learn to walk on their own two feet. They don't know about idolatry really, but just think God sent someone to be their crutch.

There is a lot of tough love that must be there! It's a difficult place to be.

I have a friend I've known for nearly 25 years. We met when we were both abandoned by our husbands. Both Christians, yet very young in the Lord. I had a very strong faith at the time, and really Knew the Lord as my life and strength. I always praised God for His being there for me and teh Children, and was never bitter ( however deeply hurt) that I needed to rehash and rehash what a terrible person my husband was. I found forgiveness through the Power of Christ. But my friend didn't want to hear that part, she just wanted to talk about how horrible her life was because of him....so we actually grew apart.

I see my friend still often, and have noticed that she hasn't changed at all. Her best friend always becomes a person who is going through what she is going through, and when another situation comes along, that friend is overthrown by a new one who can identify with that issue.

I'm so glad the Lord parted the close bond, and moved me out into a positive environment.

So, many times because we think we have been through something and can help, we can also get burned too.

I learned a great lesson from this... and hopefully you hear what I am saying.

Satan knows our weaknesses too, and may even appeal to your sense of helping someone to bring you down.

So, My advice, don't start counseling people if you yourself have been through emotional and mental issues. ......until you are so strong in the Lord, you know when to move on, and when to stay!

Love In Christ
Katy

S

sermonindex Jan 21, 2008

Excellent post Sis. Thanks from all of us!

S

sermonindex Jan 21, 2008

Here's a synopsis of a book. Very well worth reading. After this man finally came to the end of himself, and let go the work he thought he was doing for God he was healed. By that point he was so ill he had been forced to give up most of his Christian activity, but was still holding on to it in his heart, hoping to somehow get well enough to carry on:

But when he finally came to that point, the Lord completely healed him in 30 seconds flat!

I'm not saying that this is the reason for every depression, or that the healing will be as spectacular, but this is what happened to one man.

~~[u]~~God Can Do It Without Me
by Johannes Facius[/u]

Depression. Darkness. Despair. Finally a complete breakdown. For three years, the author fought against overwhelming accusations, condemnation and burnout. As he descended to the depths, Facius struggled with issues that would trouble any suffering Christian, let alone an internationally known preacher and leader. Then one morning God revealed Himself in all His healing, restoring power. Lessons from a broken preacher, this book offers real hope and encouragement as it illustrates that God is always in control.

In HIm

Jeannette

S

sermonindex Jan 22, 2008

Deltadom,

Was Job depressed or oppressed? If satan was there to buffet him, one may call that oppression.

I think what really depressed Job the most was the Friends of Job...always telling him what was wrong with him.

When Moses was depressed and threw himself on the ground, he did so, because he felt the burden God had given him was more then he could do.

God provided a solution....given to him by his father in law.

Missionaries going into countries who's people practice witchcraft have often said they feel the oppression around them something fierce.

Being oppressed by Satan is not always brought on by sin.

Regardless of the situation, we can always pray for any and all, depressed or oppressed.

I also know those coming out of Cults to Christ go through extremely difficult oppression and attacks from satan.

Love in Christ
Katy

S

sermonindex Jan 22, 2008

HE_Reigns said

I Bless GOD that against all prognosis-es of man - that even brain eating entities can be reversed or over-ridden by The Creator Himself.

Annie, this is true, and very encouraging to hear your testimony. I believe He ~~[i]~~is[/i] over-ruling and - may you live long and strong for God.

S

sermonindex Jan 22, 2008

Thanks for that Sis. As we've been discussing "His Glory" lately - I'd really like to express some of my thoughts about the Lord putting the puzzle pieces more aright in my thinking about my own past - if maybe it could help someone.
I did a book report on Freud when I was 12 and it wasn't because I was 'smart', but because it was the only subject that the teacher found I was interested in. I loved being at school - I just didn't care for the subjects. :-D
Anyhow, that one interest stayed with me through my adult years and we thought that would be my career, until about 4 years after I got saved. The interest sort of stayed and I kept reading, but the idea of that as a career left.
Then in 2002 when I got physically disabled and what I described in the other post -- without me asking or trying, my life would pass before my mind - a bit here and there, until by Nov 06 I had seen the entire video of my life. Quite strange. At first it was traumatic. It wasn't visual as in visions or dreams, just the memories presented vividly on their own. When it finally ended, after over 4 years - the LORD showed me His Glory and again it wasn't a vision, but the strong reality of how involved He is with our lives, from before conception. Not the Ruth Stapleton variety of inner healing - but something that happened apart from my will or being a participant in bringing up those memories. It was something I could never do myself and had it been anything or anyone but Him, it would have had no affect, because of having that interest in psych, I had relived the whole of it many times. And how often with self-pity.
To try to make it shorter - it blew psychology right out of the water with me and healed me of the bulk of my past in one clear revelation of His Providential Glory.
When I use Joseph as an example, it's not as any calling for myself (though actually, it may the calling of all of us) - but that is who the Lord showed me, along with the other people in His Word, and it allowed me to see that the same "preparation" for His plan for our lives; that He has had since before creation; were/are worked through every incident that we go through. He uses it ALL, to form us into what He had planned for us from the foundations. Yet, freewill still plays it's part with us and through the others that we're in contact with. But psychology robs GOD of that Providential-Process.
It would say, if you are drawn to comfort animals for instance, that it's because you wanted to be comforted yourself - but take a child from the same home who hurts animals, and they'll attribute it to the same environment that produced the nurturing child. No, it proves out our "choices" once more! The more wrong choices, the harder the conscience becomes.

Once I saw, so to speak, how nothing that happens to us is outside of His omniscient foreknowledge and all of it 'can' (if our wills allow) be used to form His ideal in us eventually and what it could potentially build into us, future tense, I rejoiced for my childhood and could even see cause for much more of my adult years through Roms. 8:28,29.
To be set free from the lie of psychology was the most blessed thing that's ever happened in my life - though He used those "videos" to show me plenty - it was like any other Bible story and not from any psych-text I'd ever read.
He allows/not causes it all - knowing before we're born, the beginning from the end (- not a sparrow falls) - and wants to work it all according to His marvelous plan For His Glory - and not as an excuse for us for our "sin" or "weaknesses" - but so that we'd take satan's plans for our pasts and present and throw them right back at him and allow God to do His will through it all - by our own choices and our chosen 'reaction' to all that comes at us. He is Absolutely Amazing!

When I saw that psychology was a "thief" attempting to steal away 'His' Providential Glory, well - GLORY TO GOD - HE SET ME FREE from the actual 'bondages' of the psychology based mind-frame !!! And growth is just an on-going process until we see Him, of seeing all things through just those two verses from Romans - with our freewill deciding what to do with or choose to do with the "all things" coming at us and welcoming them for 'His Glory only' in our minds, because we love HIM, because HE first Loved us.
Moment by moment choices of what to do with the present moment - in light of the "all things" He wants to use to transform us into His Image - since our birth with our new birth. Each month seeing less and less to be depressed about - realizing now He's in control and always has been - like with Joseph & Co.

So now, it's another new year and maybe committing the choices that our loved ones make, could become our next adventure in anti-depressant-faith. I pray I can.

S

sermonindex Jan 22, 2008

Deltadom,

The fellowship of His sufferings is the refining process. The fellowship of His sufferings will always bring death to self, as Christ in us is formed.

I understand what you are talking about. I think you are talking about the fellowship of His sufferings, because that is the only thing that can refine us and conform us to His image.

Something like this.

When you used the word depression, it really threw me off, but I know we suffer with Christ, but also have the Holy Spirit as our Comfortor through these times....revealing things to us.

Phip 3, That I may know Him and the Power of His resurrection, and teh fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable to His death ......

1 Peter 4
1Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

2That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.

3For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

4Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:

Love in Christ
Katy

B

broclint Jan 22, 2008

Keith said: Depression, of which I have past experience, is selfishness. When a person becomes depressed, all of their thoughts are upon themselves and no one else. They are being ruled by their emotions and it can lead to sin. Emotions lead people astray.

Annie said: Once I saw, so to speak, how nothing that happens to us is outside of His omniscient foreknowledge and all of it 'can' (if our wills allow) be used to form His ideal in us eventually and what it could potentially build into us, future tense, I rejoiced for my childhood and could even see cause for much more of my adult years through Roms. 8:28,29.
During this time - God has used this nightmarish disintegration of my most needed (I thought :) organ to double my compassion for those who do have organic or situational depression or any other mental anguish and physical problems.
GOD said - "die to self - no one needs a brain -
just TRUST ME - I won't let you go."

Katy said: When you used the word depression, it really threw me off, but I know we suffer with Christ, but also have the Holy Spirit as our Comfortor through these times....revealing things to us.

Very interesting thread but at least two different views if we look at the words alone, and Katy and Deltadom perhaps in the middle… BTW Keith, have enjoyed reading your posts and thanking God for your enthusiasm for lack of a better word.
But… I do believe you are wrong in your analysis of depression, or maybe we just have a different definition for depression. “Selfishness… when a person becomes depressed, all of their thoughts are upon themselves and no one else”… I believe that is a bit of an over-generalization. And “depression is nothing more than rejecting God, selfishness, not concerned for anyone else, wanting to be happy, thinking about nothing but yourself. It is of the devil and must be dealt with as such”… that again, I believe is a BIG generalization, and one that would fit very well with Job’s accusers of which the LORD said that what they said was not right, to the point that they had to have Job, the depressed one, pray for them and offer sacrifices for them.

There is no doubt that there is self-pity that is disgusting sometimes, and hypochondria in many, like an aunt of mine whose tombstone could have read, “I told you I was sick” ;-) , and anger, and covetousness, and the “measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves” that Paul said was unwise, and so forth… but when you consider the fact that Jesus was a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief, and the fact that: Psalms 34:19 (NKJV) 19 “Many are the afflictions of the righteous, But the LORD delivers him out of them all.”… and the fact that as in Job’s case, even though the devil did all that devastation to Job, it was at God’s instigation, and by God’s permission. “Hast thou considered my servant…” and the case of Joseph where it was not self-pity but the fact of his situation, he wept because he was literally in a pit...

I say this with all due respect, there is a vast difference between self-pity and the very real awareness, and yes, almost debilitating sorrow that comes from losses such as Job had. And his response to all that loss was, “the Lord gives and the Lord takes away, blessed be the name of the Lord”. But when he began to simply state the facts of his loss and tried to comprehend the reason for all those losses, his friends were very quick to give him a very self-righteous and a very WOF fix for his condition. When Job cried out Job 19:21 - 22 (NASB) 21 “Pity me, pity me, O you my friends, For the hand of God has struck me. 22 “Why do you persecute me as God does, And are not satisfied with my flesh?” Was that depression or just a plea for compassion?

I am not really sure what the definition is for depression that is the consensus definition in this thread… that would probably put us closer to all on the same page…I certainly am not into this “its all about me” seeker-friendly junk that is called church today, because we have been called to be soldiers enduring hardness, on the other hand there is certainly room, especially among those who are brothers and sisters in the faith for a whole lot more of "loving our neighbors as ourselves" that would help to alleviate a lot of sorrow, simply by knowing that somebody else knows. And to that end, there is warmth that can be felt from those who have “been there” that is to a great extent missing from those who have not. Paul’s:
2 Corinthians 1:3 - 5 (NKJV) 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, 4who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. 5For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also abounds through Christ” comes to mind.

Clint :-)

S

sermonindex Jan 22, 2008

2 Corinthians 1:3 - 5 (NKJV) 3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort, 4who comforts us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort those who are in any trouble, with the comfort with which we ourselves are comforted by God. 5For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also abounds through Christ” comes to mind.

Clint,

Wonderful post. You stated it much better than I.

The sufferings of Christ only Abound in those who are IN CHRIST to begin with.

How important we discern our sufferings.

I was remembering as well something Anne said, that just didn't hit home with me in her comments.....the Cross, that puts away the sinful self was missing.

We can't die to self on our own, this is the work of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer.

Joseph is a type of Christ, and would be wrong to identify with a Type, and not the anti-type itself Jesus Christ.

This comes to nothing more then psychology disguised in a religious package. I know, because I was caught with that one years ago.

God is not the author of sin...so there is a teaching that God knew us before the foundation of the world, and is using everything in our lives ...even the evil before we became saved, to work all together for good.

However, our old man is never worked together with the New to come out with something Gods never intended.

God, first of all did not author the evil in our lives before conversion, but Praise God, He sent His Son, Jesus Christ, to deliver is and free us from the results of sin, caused by the fall of Adam and Eve that came to all men.

God, through His Son Jesus Christ, was sent into the World, not to work your old man with your new man.

He came to save souls Satan has destroyed and oppressed...to put off the old man, that will always be wicked and a filthy rag, and to Put on the New Man, created in Righteousness and Holiness.

Jesus didn't come to re-make your old sin nature....he came to destroy it and the works of satan.

Love in Christ
Katy

S

sermonindex Jan 22, 2008

Rom 8:28-29 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose for whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Katy, read the posts you're critiquing again.

If you didn't see "The Cross" in any of them, I don't know how.

As far as dying to self - do you really believe that we have no co-operative fellowship with God and that He doesn't need our "wills" and co-operation from us, to cause that "lack of looking to or at self" to allow Him to increase, by us willfully allowing "all things" to give us a choice of how to respond to them (us willingly decreasing) - and the more we respond to "all things" coming at us, to die to our own desires, feelings, etc., that that is our process of growth?

Do you have the "it's all GOD working and nothing of me" belief?

I made sure with the Joseph analogy to also include ALL the others in our Bibles, to prove out that God does choose our birth parents and all that happens to us along the way, as He did with all of them.
In psychology - they go back to how your parents or whomever raised you as the CAUSE of all your quirks - but if we look at His Word - the stories of each individual in the O.T., we see that those whom He did foreknow - which is everyone - they were born into the family they were - and the events that came about in their lives - like Moses being floated down the river in a basket and his sister following and getting Moses' own Mom to nurse him - etc. etc. etc. applies to us all. No accidents in our lives.
We're not randomly born to the circumstances we're born to.

You've misread all of my posts so far.

It's one thing to critique - it's another to be looking at other's posts 'over' critically and not seeing what they are attempting to say --- things that can easily be found in His Word.

I never implied that God authors the "evil" that WE do, but He does have the ability to turn those things around and somehow use even our blunders for "the Good".

I truly do appreciate your zeal for apologetics - but I believe you've missed most all of what I tried to express in every post that I've done on this thread, for some reason.

To test my "fruit" :-D Romans 8:28 is FOR 29.

S

sermonindex Jan 22, 2008

I truly do appreciate your zeal for apologetics - but I believe you've missed most all of what I tried to express in every post that I've done on this thread, for some reason.

Anne, I do not recall even responding in any way to anything you have said on this thread, so I'm not sure how you could conclude I have missed all of what you have been trying to express.

First of all Anne, You first made a statement that our humanity brings glory to God....

That is what you may be referring to, and no I and possible others who understand our old flesh humanity know it can never bring Glory to God.

Taking that thought as your basis for the rest of your argument, i totally disagree with what you are saying.

You may think this is the Cross, but it is not.

Our Identification with Jesus Christ in death and resurrection life is a once for all , however from that point on, a continual operation of the Holy Spirit putting to death the deeds of our old flesh.

Our only cooperation is total yielding to the process.

Anne, I am not doubting your relationship with the Lord in any way, and it is not my place to do that...I simply commented, and maybe I shouldn't have, that identifying with OT Saints can be as much a Psychology trip, as Alcoholics identifying with other AA Members in finding healing.

We might be able to identify with others going through similar situations, and find comfort in these things, but finding comfort is not the same as the actual death process.

Paul said, That I may KNOW HIM and the Power of HIS resurrection..and the fellowship of His suffering.

Anne, I know that what you believe is something also taught by Kay Arthur. I'm not sure if you have been influenced by her teaching or not, but it is much the same.

Now, God knows beginning from the end, and who our parents are, but to go as far as to say, we existed before we existed gets a little ???.( Mormonish).

I made sure with the Joseph analogy to also include ALL the others in our Bibles, to prove out that God does choose our birth parents and all that happens to us along the way, as He did with all of them.

Did God force a violent rapist on anyone to bring forth a child????? Yet, how wonderful those who choose to keep that child is blessed by God.

God is not the author of sin, nor is it God's will that any one be conceived this way, yet I'm sure those who were conceived Christ died for as well. He died for the sin of the world.

Even a woman raped, God does not force procreation on His creation in this way. This is how you suggest God works to choose your parents?

Or are you suggesting those are not and can never be saved?

Tough questions Huh?

Love in Christ
Katy

S

sermonindex Jan 22, 2008

Anne, I do not recall even responding in any way to anything you have said on this thread, so I'm not sure how you could conclude I have missed all of what you have been trying to express.

Bottom of page 3 Sis.

First of all Anne, You first made a statement that our humanity brings glory to God....
That is what you may be referring to, and no I and possible others who understand our old flesh humanity know it can never bring Glory to God.
Taking that thought as your basis for the rest of your argument, i totally disagree with what you are saying.

I'd rather you quote me before "stating what I supposedly stated". Thanks!

Our Identification with Jesus Christ in death and resurrection life is a once for all , however from that point on, a continual operation of the Holy Spirit putting to death the deeds of our old flesh.
Our only cooperation is total yielding to the process.

When and where have I ever said anything to the contrary on any thread since I've been a member Sis Kate?

Anne, I am not doubting your relationship with the Lord in any way, and it is not my place to do that...

Didn't think you were and glad you feel that way.

I simply commented, and maybe I shouldn't have, that identifying with OT Saints can be as much a Psychology trip, as Alcoholics identifying with other AA Members in finding healing.

The whole of His Word is written for our admonistion, exhortation, encouragement and nothing of it shall pass away. Jesus Christ - the same, yesterday, today and forever - etc.

We might be able to identify with others going through similar situations, and find comfort in these things, but finding comfort is not the same as the actual death process.

Hebrews 11

Paul said, That I may KNOW HIM and the Power of HIS resurrection..and the fellowship of His suffering.

Phil 3:7-15 are known to be my favorites.

Anne, I know that what you believe is something also taught by Kay Arthur. I'm not sure if you have been influenced by her teaching or not, but it is much the same.

No Katy, You obviously don't know what I believe and I don't listen to her or much of anyone actually. I'm very strong on believing/practicing Sola Scriptura and testing all things against It only.

Now, God knows beginning from the end, and who our parents are, but to go as far as to say, we existed before we existed gets a little ???.( Mormonish).

Again --- How did you get that from any of my posts?

Did God force a violent rapist on anyone to bring forth a child????? Yet, how wonderful those who choose to keep that child is blessed by God.

Again - had you truly read any of my posts - anywhere on SI, besides just the last post I did, you'd see that I said that God did not cause us to do evil.

And yes, that child is from GOD - despite the way he/she was born and He also has plans for their salvation - if they will come to Him.

Like Solomon, who was born out of adultery. (I know - I have scratched a bald spot on my head also, trying to figure it all out, but Jesus' geneology could do that to ya also.)

God is not the author of sin

S.A.A.

God is not the author of sin, nor is it God's will that any one be conceived this way, yet I'm sure those who were conceived Christ died for as well. He died for the sin of the world.
Even a woman raped, God does not force procreation on His creation in this way. This is how you suggest God works to choose your parents?
Or are you suggesting those are not and can never be saved?
Tough questions Huh?
Love in Christ

The question isn't tough at all - the fact that you even asked them may be - in view of the fact that I've never hinted that sin was ordered by The LORD.

But - the rest, I've already answered, countless time through-out SI.

Again, that child is not a mistake or an accident or cursed - but GOD did not order, choose, ordain, cause, Rape.

Go figure !

The Love of GOD - 1 Corth 13

S

sermonindex Jan 22, 2008

Like Solomon, who was born out of adultery. (I know - I have scratched a bald spot on my head also, trying to figure it all out, but Jesus' geneology could do that to ya also.)

Anne, Solomon was NEVER born out of adultry.

That child died, remember, the one Bathsheba conceived with David while in sin!

Stop scratching!

Anne, you made a point blank statement that God chose our parents.

But what about the child who is molested, abused, etc by his or her father or mother? Or the Child murdered by his or her father or mother.

These are tough questions to those who have found themseves in this life with such situations.

Did God chose these parents to these children.

I say , it goes beyond what is taught in scripture.

And the implications of these teachings goes beyond even what I have asked. I never said you taught them or didn't teach them, but making such statements without thinking it through is saying this exact thing.

All things working together for Good are promises to those IN CHRIST. This promise does not include those outside of Christ.

Anne, my comments are based as well on another thread re; suicide. I even commented there about a reply back to me that took me by surprise that I had done it.....realizing then, you didn't understand the context.

So, with that, maybe we really don't understand one another when it comes to the finished work of Christ in the believers life.

Love in Christ
Katy

S

sermonindex Jan 22, 2008

So, if you have multiple wives and kill one of their husbands, God just kills the first child and then the whole shabang is O.K. for you?

Katy, you mentioned the suicide thread, where I recall us posting in one accord against some other's beliefs.
Could you - once again - bring up Quotes to these things you are saying that you are disagreeing with?

All things working together for Good are promises to those IN CHRIST. This promise does not include those outside of Christ.

Sigh. Katy - do you really believe I think otherwise?

But I know you agree that it was God's plan for ALL to BE saved.

HE so loved the world - that not one of them is an accident and all that happens to them is for His Glory But - HE is not the "Author" of their choices to sin against Him.

If someone gets saved tomorrow - don't you believe that GOD still had plans for them since before their birth?

Katy - I'm not a Calvinist at all - but I do very Strongly believe in His Omniscient Foreknowledge - and how despite it all - His INTENT was to work all things together for the Good - WHEN we - any person - comes to Him by faith through His grace.

S

sermonindex Jan 22, 2008

Feel led to repost a small portion on depression.

The part that there is some truth in that depression may be at times, anger kept inward.

OR, angry people may still have not dealt with the cause of their depression.

What do you think?

S

sermonindex Jan 22, 2008

But I know you agree that it was God's plan for ALL to BE saved.

Anne, are you a Universalist? I believe that is what they believe.

It may be God's heart tht all will repent, but no where does scriptue say it is God's PLAN that all willbe saved.

Back to something.

In the OT, anyone caught in Adultry was stoned to death.

Actually, before an Angel appeared to Joseph, Mary was going to be privately put away ( stoned to death) because she was pregnant and not married.

If someone gets saved tomorrow - don't you believe that GOD still had plans for them since before their birth?

God's plan for all that come to Him are the exact same plan, being conformed to His Image.

God's Plan is turning sinners into Saints!

It is not necessary that God had to plan your parenthood, or your childhood, or parents to do so.

We are saved on an individual basis, and have a personal relationship with Christ.

We are a New creation In Christ, and that is what is so wonderful...it is not based on my past, who my parents are or aren't or how I even got here.

That is the Good News to all and any.

Katy

S

sermonindex Jan 22, 2008

Sis, I realize now what the problem is.

I sit and read everyone's posts about 1000 times more than I just post.

You obviously don't.

I know you work and I can't so the time factor is the problem - and I fully understand that, having worked a lot.

No Sis, I am not a universalist. I was just enjoying Krispy's thread on who can be saved.

So, we're all born into this generation by happenstance?

S

sermonindex Jan 22, 2008

So, we're all born into this generation by happenstance?

Well, we are born in an age of Grace, and no one is, (at least here anyway) being stoned for children out of wedlock.

But look at China, and how many babies are killed especially girls, or families who have more then 2.

God created Man and Woman to procreate, however, with instruction of family life...not like the animal kingdom.

However, we have become like the animal the animal kingdom....even perverted sexuality in many ways. This is not of God, but man's doing.

Man has taken it upon himself to even produce by man made methods.......even going as far as trying to clone.

Much of this is questioned.

Many women during war times have been imprisoned and forced to have children.

So, God allows man's folly, He did not create it preordain it or forordained it.

Katy

P

psalm1 Jan 22, 2008

anne, I just wanted to add....There is a part in pilgrims progress where they are captured by the giant of despair. He takes them to doubting castle and he beats them regularly in their cell. Usually one bro. is "in victory" and the other is depressed,due to their plight.
One day they were both depressed. They talked suicide and all kinds of hopeless talk. Then Christian remembered the "key" on the necklace.
He pulled it out and told his companion"wait a minute! I have a key that will unlock any door in doubting castle." He showed his bro the key. On it was written "Gods promises"
Christian tried it in the lock and it worked! they then went to the big drawbridge at the wall of the castle. It took much effort but it opened the drawbridge as well. they started running for their lives and when they looked back the giant had thrown himself on the ground and was kicking and screaming in a tantrum.

David

P

psalm1 Jan 22, 2008

Two scriptures......Thou will keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on thee.[Isa]

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

Yet some entered not because of unbelief [Heb 4]

David

S

sermonindex Jan 23, 2008

David, THANK YOU for the Bunyan quote. I love Bunyan and it was very appropriate for me right now.

De jevu month I suppose for me.

When I worked at the Nursing Home, I had to go through a State class and exam to be certified in the state where I've moved to.
A man in my class sat next to me and I knew right away that he was "Messianic".

I enjoyed that fact and we became friends of sorts - at work.

Little by little, I met his children when they came to the Nursing Home to pick him up with his wife. I fell deeply in love with his wife and two girls, about 11 years old at that time.

They loved JESUS. The wife and children loved Jesus.

Little by little, he started to go off scripturally. He wasn't Jewish at all - he was Gentile raised Catholic then agnostic then met his Jewish wife and somewhere he & she became Messianic.
I don't know how gentiles become Messianic, but anyhow, he did.

More and more he began to drift from the N.T. and also - though I tried Not to see it - but he never did care about the people at the Nursing Home but was a charmer, always trying to impress the Nurses, etc. Not sexually, just wanted to appear as wise.

Well, after I had to stop working, I saw him one more time outside the Nursing Home.
He had gone full blown Orthodox and as he said, "threw everything of JESUS out of 'their' home."

He stoled his little girls love for Jesus from them. He ripped Jesus out of their hearts and hands. I can't even begin to tell you how grievous that was for me to hear. Like a knife through the heart. Those little girls LOVED Jesus.

Then about 3 years later, another girl that I worked with called and told me this guy went NUTS and as intelligent as he was and despite how he "loved his family" - when the police surrounded his house for "reasons unknown" by any of us, he pointed his rifle at his wife and children who were laying on the ground prostrate and told the police he'd kill them rather than whatever they had come there for.

When you feel deeply for people, this stuff just about kills you.

ERROR BREEDS ERROR.

I've lost others since on the internet to what's called the Hebrew Roots Movement. I couldn't pull them back from throwing out Paul and then gradually had to watch them take on "Messianic" customs and so forth.

Not all Messianics throw out Paul - not by a long shot - but there are those who do.

That wound keeps being re-opened in me and I am part Jewish - but when I came to Christ - I became a CHRISTIAN - just as all were called in the first church full of Jewish believers.

When gentiles or those with a possibility of "Jewish" blood - (and who really knows except a geneticist?) - and they start SUDDENLY calling G-d YHWH - Yahweh and then when you tell them that Jews don't call Him that Name but Ha Shem and so they start calling Him Ha Shem and on and on they are SUDDENLY Messianic - to me it sends those same pokings into the old wounds of my past with these type folks.

I don't know where that guy from the Nursing Home is but I suppose he's either in a PsychWard or Federal Pen..

ERROR BREEDS ERROR - because when you STOP your hearing of The Spirit of Truth - you Callous over your spirit and conscience and you've chosen the path of delusion.

I told you I am very depressed - that is why. Again that wound has been re-opened by yet another who has chosen to fall away from THE CHURCH.

The Church that started with Jews, like Peter & Paul.

Thank you again David.

S

sermonindex Jan 23, 2008

Meant to mention - what caused the man I mentioned above, that went further and further from The Word, was 'Cabalistic' (Kabbalah) teachings.

S

sermonindex Jan 23, 2008

David, I love that verse.

Isaiah 26:3
Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

Here are some others that will bless as well.

Colossians 3:2
Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.

Philippians 4:
8Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.

Love
Katy