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Does it have to be within the past 4 years? For me it was before that.

Although there are aspects maybe that I'm not yet totally free from...?

Jeannette

It will be going on 5 years since the LORD told me to get out of the church that I was attending. I haven't heard anymore direction to go back to any church, though I have asked many times. But for me to say that I have been completely delivered from the spirit of religion, only God can answer that, it would be arrogance on my part to say that I am.

Hi Mike,

Please... let me put a more corporate perspective on this?

I think you have missed an important detail, namely, that Dian was quoting from a (significantly) longer word which gave other angles to God's perspective on the whole; which word in full has been posted on SI, twice already, and shared with our brother Daryl in particular (at the time of the thread 'To all the Prophets').

I would like to aver, from the distance that I have - being a strong believer in the 'body ministry' aspect of SI in small, and the Church in large - that the claim it makes for those who do [i]not[/i] wish to fall away with the rest of the apostate church, is being confirmed by dreams such as provoked Carter Conlon to preach 'Beware of the Angry Watchmen'.

From his vantage point - if can call it that - he has also said (prior to the Angry Watchmen sermon - although I might have to do a lot of listening to find the exact one,) that he believes God [i][b]is[/i][/b] [u]calling out individuals and strengthening them in isolation[/u], as part of His plan to save to Himself a people (in America).

Further, it is not a stretch to claim that this (whole) word from Dian is completely in line with the spirit of what Sermonindex experiences, in that you yourself, Krispy, reformer, poet - others whose names I can't remember - have all given a similar testimony to Dian's, of varying degrees of awakening, rising up and leaving ... responding to the call of God in your hearts, just as in

[i][color=6633FF]For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; the flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land; the fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell.

Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away.

O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice; for sweet is thy voice, and thy countenance is comely.

Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have tender grapes. My beloved is mine, and I am his: he feedeth among the lilies. Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved ...

Song of Solomon 2:11 - 16[/i][/color]

and

[color=0000FF][i] For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), finding out what is acceptable to the Lord...

Therefore He says:
"Awake, you who sleep,
Arise from the dead,
And Christ will give you light."

See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

Ephesians 5:8 - 10, 14 - 16[/i][/color]

Truly, I believe God is backing up His word with real people really being freed from bondages which have their roots in false gospels of various kinds.

Over the last few weeks, there have been big strong undercurrents, for the first time (in my awareness) dragging at the strongest bonds some of us have with each other. I try to be quick to close rank. But I recognise this may not be apparent. And it shouldn't mean the issues arising between us are being swept under the cybercarpet - which is fairly tempting at times - or not being allowed to do their work in us - which takes 3D real-time.

The matter of various kinds of relationships, though, is quite different from the ministries of the members of the body - to each other (Eph 4:16). While we have natural friends and natural relatives, our role in the body may [i]not[/i] touch on our relationships with either of these natural groups. (Perhaps this is obvious once it's pointed out.) But, for the sake of our [i]spiritual[/i] health, we do have to work at keeping the parts of the body in rest with each other. Something about knowing who is weeping and why, and who is rejoicing and why, and joining meaningfully in their situation.

In this thread, especially after the dreams you shared yesterday, I see that God has given you a similar kind of insight to Diane's (roadsign). Perhaps this is partly a result of similar experiences you have had; while - I can't quite explain - it's as if Dian's (Spitfire) has to [i]become[/i] the message [i]itself[/i] in a peculiar way. (I don't know if this is making sense on the page, but I perceive that how you all see things, comes out differently when you express it. Perhaps this is [i]my[/i] contribution...) Yet, some would say all of you are being 'prophetic'. To those (in Christ) who are not given this gift of [i]expression[/i], nevertheless the 'word' often comes as a confirmation to something they recognised, but couldn't put into words for themselves, and are [u]not[/u] called to put into words for the church.

We are all living through the same [i]era[/i], but we can see that God has given a degree of differentiation to the understanding which individuals contribute to the whole, and this may be partly a result of their individual unravelings of past misunderstandings, or, it may be a straightforward gift of the Spirit to see things that 'are', which others do not.

What to do with that insight, for the edification of the local church, or the whole Church, can be challenging for the individual, depending on the opportunities available to them. For instance, an elder like Carter Conlon can turn it into a sermon. Whereas another without that opportunity, might share it through prayer, but (either way), by the gift, God's intention is to strengthen [i]the whole[/i].

And then, we have Sermonindex, which has become such a [u]life[/u]-force for many.

Amen.

quote by Spitfire in another thread:
As I prayed concerning all these things, God spoke to my heart again. He told me, "I've already issued the orders--the reign of the spirit of religion over my Church in America has come to an end." The decree has gone forth to let God's people go that they may worship and serve him....'

[color=990000]And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory.
2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.
3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.
4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, [b]Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues[/b].[/color]

Surely in these days the Lord is calling His own, those who are of the true Church, the Bride, out from among the false, "Harlot" Church.

We are being, one by one, called out and delivered from the spirit of mere religion, (even while we remain among the outward forms of that which is called "church"); made strong in Him to stand in the coming evil days.

And not only in America.

The Lord is preparing for the final harvest, and part of that preparation has to be the separation of tares from wheat, and the winnowing of the good grain to free it from the husks.

Surely this is what was meant by the above quote? Whether it is to be considered prophecy as such, or not, this [i]is[/i] what is happening: The Lord is calling His own [i]to Himself[/i]. That must mean out of every tongue and tribe and people and nation, and [i]denomi[/i]nation! If we are called to gather together unto Him, that means we [i]have to[/i] be set free from all forms of denomonational and religious bondage.

Mike, I can't understand why you seem to have such a problem with this. Unless it's the mere mention of the word "prophecy" that sets you off!

As Dorcas said, (not the same words, but that I think was the meaning) true prophecy [i]only puts into words what one already knows in the Spirit[/i].

It must also always be confirmed by Scripture, of course, which is why I quoted Revelation. There's also Matthew 13:30, for example..

[color=990000]Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.[/color]

in Him

Jeannette

This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

I do agree with these verses, as we do see this right before our eyes.

Those who belong to the Lord, regardless of what country they live, or what era they live or lived, have always been persecuted.

I think we are seeing many things today that let us know the return of the Lord is near, and the Ministry of the Holy Spirit within us is a witness to these things.

Why would there be a prophetic word for AMERICA, and not the rest of the world?

The Gospel of GRACE delivers from the bondage of religion, regardless of what that religion may be.

Grace is CALVARY..the Cross. Being crucified with Christ and raised a New Creation not only delivers on from religion, but from SIN.

He told me, "I've already issued the orders--the reign of the spirit of religion over my Church in America has come to an end."

The Church is the Body of Christ.... making up of believers all over the world.

The only thing that will break the spirit of religion over anyone is preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ crucified and risen.

Until then, no such prophesy can be fulfilled. Salvation is one soul at a time.

Katy

He that has ears to hear, let him hear.

Spitfire, He who has ears, hears God through the Word of God.

Where is your scripture to back up what you are saying?

There are TWO examples God left us with.

1. The Spirit of RELIGION....Cain.

2. The Spirit of Obedience to the Cross established in Genesis 3:15....Abel and his sacrifice....BLOOD.

There is no other......and you will never see God delivering Cain from the spirit of religion.

God gave Cain a second chance to REPENT and do what was right...in God's Eyes....acknowledge he was a sinner, and putting his faith in the promised redeemer...as did Abel.

Do your ears HEAR this?

Katy

Hi Katy,

You're coming in on a very long drawn out discussion in SI, of whether the people who God uses to speak to His true Church - part of the true Church themselves - can be believed or not.

In the other thread, where the whole of this word was posted recently at my request (it having been posted a long time before but I don't think Dian could find it again at the time)
you will find one of the mainstays of Dian's ministry is that scripture - God's statement of what He's going to do on the earth - is the basis of any modern reminder of His truth written there.

In this case - that of the call of God for His people to respond to the the movings of His Spirit today, and if necessary leave the company of those who are bent on 'religion' - there are many many verses that back this up as the fundamental heart of God towards mankind.

Probably the most obvious, are the first thoughts of Exodus 20:

[color=6633FF]Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness [i]of any thing[/i] that [i]is[/i] in heaven above, or that [i]is[/i] in the earth beneath, or that [i]is[/i] in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [i]am[/i] a jealous God:... [/color]

We see in the second part of Romans 1 how it is that people arrive in idolatry - by denying what God has revealed of His invisible power and Godhead in creation - one variety of having a form of godliness but denying the power of thereof. Thus, I would turn you to one of the most clear declarations in the New Testament, to show how the concept of idolatry is relevant to the Church age:

[color=6633FF]1 Thessalonians 1
in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing.
9 For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;
10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [i]even[/i] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come. [/color]

There is an idea amongst some Christians that 'old-time religion' was good old original pentecostal faith and power. It isn't. It is basic animist religion, worship of creatures, stars, planets, the sun - anything to do with creation, rather than God the Creator.

I can't answser on Dian's behalf, but, in an old thread called 'To all the Prophets' where she shared some of what she's been through in churches - through which the Lord has refined her (That's accepted.) - one of the very specific things I learned about 'a prophet' is that they feel a burden for the nation into which they have been born, to pray and intercede for it, as if the sin of the nation was, almost, their own sin. I don't have this ministry, but I know Dian does, and has been praying for America for [i]years[/i]. So have others, who would not necessarily feel called to [i]speak out[/i] what God shows to them. That's the difference really, [i]that she does[/i].

Therefore, when such an one has been praying for their nation and seeking God for answers, it is not unsurprising when He eventually communicates a response. It's not Dian's problem if others don't believe what she relays to them. Rather, it is up to any who doubt it, to seek God for themselves, in this age of the Holy Spirit, and to walk in the light God gives them.

I do believe that revelation from the Holy Spirit is being given to the Church today, (to this generation of believers), through the operation of His gifts (graces). One of the commonest mistakes in thinking (about gifts) which seems to crop up on SI (the only message board I frequent - Mike, please don't take this personally) is that those less familiar with a local church which allows the ministry of the gifts in its Sunday services (and all the other times a Christian is a Christian - ie 24\\7) is the expectation of the need for everyone to stop their lives and work out whether scripture backs up this or that 'word' (which may have come as a prophecy, a prayer, an exposition of scripture or however it came), rather than learn simply to hear what the [i]Spirit[/i] is saying, [u]and keep walking[/u] in Him. Because the Spirit may not be saying the same thing to everyone. (If this statement causes a problem because of how it reads, I can explain more in a later post.) Although, in this very specific case, this was a word to Americans - it is equally relevant to anyone around the world who is bound in sin - idolatry, atheism, political ideology or whatever else hides God from their understanding. Jesus Christ is still the only mediator between man and God.

Us, the readers, only need to know where we are with God, hear what [u]HE[/u] is saying to us personally, and obey Him. End of exercise.

[i]OOOOh[/i] if only it were that simple!

It isn't greatly helpful to shoot the messenger if God has given him ears to hear things He is bringing to their understanding because of their calling, and, not necessarily saying giving the same part of His word to everyone.

This is why Paul likened the church at Corinth to a body (1 Cor 12).

There is one last thing about 'prophets', which is that like pastors, teachers, evangelists and apostles, they are whole persons given to the Church to serve her (Eph 4:11) Therefore, while we as individuals do have a responsibility to listen for God's voice in the word which is given, to [i]begin[/i] from a stance that the word (of that prophet) is definitely not from God - unless they can prove otherwise - and to make this a basis on which to judge the person's contribution to their local body or the Church world-wide, is, perhaps, to take a huge swipe at what God may be trying to do on earth - if only we weren't so sure we're the only person who has the corner on truth.

There is also that last great commandment given by Christ in John 15 - to love one another - with which to contend in a very real way.

Dorcas, I would like to say I too have this gift.

I also know with this gift it is to re-iterate what is and has all ready been spoken.

I don't have dreams or visions, but rather deeper understanding of the truth.

You may or may not have noticed, I preach Christ Crucified, as did Paul who said, God forbid that I should preach anything else but Christ and Him Crucified.

I asked Dian to back up her comments or vision or dream with Scripture.....so that I can also be a good Berean and see if what she is telling us is of the truth as I too search the scriptures.

I too believe in the Gifts of the Spirit and KNOW that the TRUTH spoken in this generation is not any different then any other Generation.

Having nothing to do with earthly difficulties, as that has always been.

Do you see Paul Prophesying of the destruction of the Temple in 70AD, or any other News worthy events during that time? NO!

Anyone can look at today, and make any one of these claims about what may be ahead...that DOES NOT make one a Prophet, or have the Gift of Prophecy.

The Gift of Prophecy is the Testimony of Jesus Christ....PERIOD!!!!!

To say that God is going to deliver AMERICA from the spirit of religion in not truth.

Our conscience are purged with the Blood of Jesus Christ to serve the Living God. Apart from the Preaching of Calvary, there will be no deliverance of any kind. To Compromise the Cross, and the Son of God who died and rose again with a counterfeit message is false prophecy. The only thing that can DELIVER anyone from anything is Jesus Christ, and no one can come to the Father except through His Son. God is not waving a magic wand and delivering AMERICA from the bondage of religion. Jesus didn’t come to save NATIONS, but SOULS. He didn’t die on a cross for AMERICA, but for YOU and ME.

AND Jesus Didn’t die on a cross to deliver anyone from religion, but from SIN. He said YE must be Born Again. Born Again Christians DO NOT need to be delivered from the spirit of Religion. However sinners need to be delivered from the bondage of SIN. Anything else is a false Gospel, and any other message is a crossless gospel, having no power what so ever.....but sounds like just another form of religion!

We have all ready had two I know of making false prophecies here and admitted they were wrong... yet they were so convinced they were PROPHETS.

Katy

I said he is delivering His Church in America from the spirit of religion.

Who is His church in America that needs to be delivered from the spirit of religion?

You mean those who adhere to the Word of God, and refuse to follow those with modern day tongues speaking this or that not in the Word. Is that who America is going to be delivered from?

The Church, His Body is a Spiritual Organism, and needs no deliverance from Religion in the first place.

But what on earth does that have to do with America anymore then anywhere else? Is God a respecter of Persons? Hardly!

However, I do see those who want to prophecy new and different things do need to be delivered from the TRUE Body of Christ.

The Church in America and all around the world .....We are waiting for our blessed Hope as we speak.

SOOOOOOO,
What Church in America are you referring to?

The Catholic Church?
The Scientologists?
The Mormons?
The JW's
and many more......Will God deliver these as well from their spirit of Religion.

What CHURCH are you referring to?
Katy

"God left America years ago, we have multi million dollar conferences and nothing happens"

That's why I'm so greatful my citizenship is in Heaven.

However He was here in the 70's, :-P saved my soul, and delivered me out of this present evil age into the Kingdom of His Dear Son.

Katy

Katy said:
Who is His church in America that needs to be delivered from the spirit of religion?

Katy, these are the ones, the true Church, and this is how He is delivering them.

John 10:
[color=990000]1 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly
[/color]

What prophesying about "new and different things" are you talking about? John 10 is surely the basic message that is being spoken of in this thread - isn't it? At least this is what I personally know to be true, and what the Lord is doing...

in Him

Jeannette

Jeannette, reading the original post here, I see no mention of John 10, but Dian wanting some assurance that what she spoke is coming to pass. ***Breaking the spirit of religion over the ???? Body of Christ???

Jesus is always breaking that bondage, the reformation for one.

Added: we are more then conquers, and always have been, we are over comers, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church. These are Promises!!!!! No one need be exalted for knowing and being a part of this, or even proclaiming it.

And where in John 10 is such a mention of **breaking** the spirit of Religion, but I see quite the contrary.....those who belong to the Lord and are His don't follow religious spirits to begin with....no can hear!!! This is my point, and you just clarified yourself.

I don't believe though this is what is spoken of....but I do believe CCHHRRIIS said it perfectly....it is some sort of lingo used in many charismatic churches who are being called down by more down to earth fundamentalists of which those who believe in the fundamental truths of scripture are called as having a spirit of religion or pharisees.

How often too, those who say visions and dreams NOW override the very word of God, of which many here have rebuked this very thing.

If Dian has a burden in her heart, it should be to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, other then this, all GIFTS are given to the Body FOR the Body....not to abuse the gift of Prophecy as though one is calling down Israel in their times of rebellion.

We are not a Theocracy that we need such calling down.

AND Women are not to go around and Usurp authority over any Church in calling it down for having a spirit of religion...whether that Church is Christ's or just out right apostate.

We have the Word right in our hands, as you so well quoted from.....We are sanctified through the Word, as the Holy Spirit ministers to us. We need no such medium.

So if the Church...His Body is off coarse, the Head, Jesus Christ will bring all those who belong to Him on coarse.

The Days of Moses are over folks.!

Katy

What is the Spirit of Religion?

It starts in the flesh, our old Adam nature.

Paul says of the believer first:

"For I delight in the law of God in my inmost self, but I see in my members another law at war with the law of my mind, making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord!" Romans 7:22

"I say then, Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law." Gal. 5:16-18

"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." John 3:6

Though we've heard much about strategic level warfare, there is a more intense war unfolding that will make the warfare some of us have previously been involved in seem like mere skirmishes. This war will personally involve every born-again believer, and ultimately each and every believer will find themselves having to choose sides. In this war, we will find the enemy among us, up close and personal, in our midst, and even living inside of us. The Holy Spirit is even now leading the church into the conflict of the ages, the war against the spirit of false religion. The Holy Spirit and the religious spirit have constantly been at war since the creation of man, but as the time for the return of the Son of God draws nearer, this war is set to escalate dramatically.

One thing is for certain in this particular war - if we don't learn to recognise and resist the influence of false religion in ourselves first, we will not be able to stand against it manifested in the world. To overcome in this war, it is absolutely imperative to first acknowledge that in the flesh nature of each one of us dwells a measure of false religion. To say this is not to imply that believers are under the influence of a demonic spirit. There is a specific demonic entity called a spirit of religion that is actively at work in the world and in the church today, just as it was in Jesus' day. There is also, however, a degree of false religion within each one of us because we are the seed of the first Adam. We are delivered from this false religion as we submit to the Cross in our daily lives and "reckon ourselves dead."

So, what is the root of false religion, and when did it enter into man? Basically, it stems from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and it entered into man when Adam and Eve ate of that particular tree. At the root of the false religion is the fear of death. It causes man to try to earn salvation and strives to keep from man the revelation of grace inherent in the shed Blood of Christ. The only deliverance we will find from the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is in the Tree of Life - Christ Himself.

"And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons." Gen. 3:7 After Adam and Eve had eaten from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, they suddenly became aware of something else dwelling in each of them - the sin nature. They became self-conscious, because sin had become locked into their very flesh.

Part of God's ensuing judgment on the serpent in the garden was that there would be "enmity between the Seed of the woman and the serpent's seed" (Gen. 3:15). We know that the Seed of the woman is Jesus. What then is the seed of the serpent?

In John chapter 8 Jesus told the Pharisees "You do the deeds of your father. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do....." If we follow the context of this chapter, we find that Jesus was involved in an ongoing discourse with the Pharisees as He taught in the temple. He was addressing the religious spirit, the seed of the serpent. It was the religious spirit, the spirit of anti-christ in men, which ultimately conspired to put Jesus to death. It springs forth from Satan himself and is his seed.

This isn't just to America, but this is the whole of the Gospel.

Katy

Hi Katy,

Do you mind stating whose article you have quoted, above?

Thanks. :-)

Hi Mike,

I'm not taking your comments 'personally'. But I do think there may be room for some private correspondence. Let's see what you think when I've finished. It's late, but I don't want not formulate a reply while it is today.

The point, as it has been and continues to be with these prophetic utterances are emphatically, so or not so? Did God, say this or did He not?

He did not.

Mike, I really want to understand on what basis [i]you yourself are certain[/i] this was not a word from God. Because.... I'm as tired of your blanket rejections as you are of non-biblical sounding words. I know what it feels like to project past experience on to the present as I've lived it as a lifestyle. But all good things come to an end, and eventually God faces us up, and we have to grow.

The only other thing I really want to say about 'a word from God', is the voice. The voice of the person bringing the word, says a thousand things (if I may take that poetic licence) which seeing the same words in writing cannot convey. That's one of the most important things about scripture - the way the Holy Spirit illumines it confirms to our understanding that it's from God. Not because someone else told us it was, but [u]we [b]know[/b][/u] it is. I'm not sure that the same thing applies to all prophetic words given under the New Covenant. It would depend what claims were being made by the word and the person giving the word, of what they had understood in their spirit.

So I put it to you that this word Dian posted ___ years ago, is probably well past its sell-by date. The thing is [i]happening[/i] all around you, in reality.

The very trouble is that we already have well over a thousand pages in our own bibles and we would believe them less over against whatever free flows from our own lips.

The Lord does not speak like this anywhere in scripture

But as far as the language goes, you do know a modern prophecy won't sound like [i]the Bible[/i] because a great deal of it is quoted from (well) over 2000 years ago. If you were prophesying, you wouldn't sound like a Moses either ... you'd sound like Mike Balog bringing a word from God. That's the way it works nowadays - and I'm not being all modern. I am far more suspicious of a word that comes in seventeenth-century English, than one that comes in the language of present-day relationship with God.

When the Lord spoke this to Dian, she was locked in Bible belt theology and a great deal of bondage - if only she'd known it. She was one of the people wanting to be free, through whom God was making the call to others - [i]because[/i] she was spending time in her Bible and prayer.

Now we have those with the audacity to command God to do their bidding.

My sense is that because they sometimes come from our members, who we love, we fear appraising their words, their statements and the others out there speaking things they do not know are likewise to go unchallenged in like manner.

rushing to defend it all.

On the matter of the word a person may bring, it is the general rule that no-one can bring others further than they have gone themselves. At the time Dian received this word, it was at the edge of what God could entrust to her. Since then, she has moved on, and so has the tenor of how God has spoken to her since; always calling her to greater faith. None of the gifts can operate without faith and love.

And, as time has passed and there is evidence that this word is coming true - that God is bringing Americans out of bondage into true liberty in Christ - it's really difficult to know how you can justify being so adamant that this was not a word from God [i]at all[/i].

(And, you appear to have ignored my comment that Carter Conlon (apart from his dream and the word which followed it) has said something very similar - and it didn't sound like Bible language in his mouth either.)

We all know that God has used us in this or that in the past, when we weren't as clued up as we are now. At the time we were amazed. Now we are incredulous! Surely God should have known better than [i]that!!![/i] It is quite remarkable how much He is willing to give to babes.

Look at it will you? Look at the commotion. Entanglements with the world. Politics. Speculations and predicting under the guise of "prophecy". Legalism. Denominational-ism. Re-defining the bible. New Revelations. Charismatic extremities. Multi-millionaire preachers. Gay pastors. Divorced and divorcing 'leaders' of the Church. The fear of God is 'dated' or even outdated. Prosperity gospels. Easy gospels. Grace is so abused and deformed as to turn God forbid! into God allows! Women overstepping their natural bounds. Men cowering under them. Extremes everywhere. Humanism and relativism, sanctimony-ism, patronizing universalism, ism's and schisms ... Abortion is tolerated, divorce is celebrated. Christ on a t-shirt, on a bumper sticker on a window decal. This age is plastic and phony, painted and everywhere tolerable to it's surroundings. Materialism is rampant, credit cards pushed to their maximums, over extended and deaf to eternal matters. Death looms large and hell opens it's mouth, but we have more important matters. Worse, all these things amongst Christians.

It wants nothing to do with pain or suffering or cross bearing, repentance, discipline or obedience ...

We have a sure word of prophecy already

2 Peter 2
1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
2 And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.[/color]

I would say that which ails us is our lack of being just plain honest.

And then what? Isn't this where the rubber meets the road?

Having said all that, and taken so long to say it, I concede that this may not have been a word to the churches, but one to encouarge Dian to press on in God. But, as she's explained elsewhere, she was used to prophesying publicly so it could be judged [u]by other prophets[/u] and (I guess) she posted it here, because she wanted the reassurance that it was from God.

Thus, if you are not a prophet perhaps your judgement is not valid, but, if Daryl is a prophet, and he is supportive, his judgement is. This is my understanding of how the scriptural guidance works.

From my perspective, whether it was a word from God or not, He certainly has brought to pass in Dian's experience, something that looks fearfully like a fulfilment of it. As you would say: go figure.

Dian, I only have a few minutes here, so I will only reply to a couple comments:

Having a form of Godliness but denying the power...[u][i][b]from such turn away[/b][/i][/u] are the remaining words of this verse, whether we like it or not.

The Church in Revelation is told to [u][i][b]repent..... [/b][/i][/u]..... just like anyone else anywhere else.

It was like the children of Israel being enslaved in Egypt. They knew that they were God's people, born to worship God, but they were forbidden to worship God by their captors. In Exodus 3:9, God says, "And now the cry of the Israelites has reached me, and I have seen the way the Egyptians are oppressing them." But...of course God knew the Egyptians were oppressing them, for he (God) was the one who ordained their bondage as a punishment for their sin.

Well, please read this again. What sin are you talking about? The sin of Jospeh going to Egypt and saving the Egyptians and Joseph's family.

Was it their fault there arose a new King in Egypt that knew not Joseph?

Dian, just to name a couple here, I'm so sorry to say, are so far from the truth in the first place.

I would suggest, before you go and decide you want to be a prophet, to spent time with the Lord, and your Bible, rightly divide the Word of Truth before adding to the confusion one more self proclaimed prophet of God. We have so many unlearned people wanting to be in ministry, and proclaiming this or that causing the very confusion you are talking about, because they DON'T know, or deny the Truths of scripture...and you sound like one more adding to the confusion.

This, Dear Sister, is the "church" I'm talking about. It's the church(God's chosen ones) within the church(those with a form of godliness which denies the power). It's those people whose hearts are crying for the reality of God, but up until now, have been unable to change, even though they hate their impotence.

Those having a form of Godliness but deny the power....from such turn away. (sounds harsh huh....but can you OBEY THIS? Or do you think you have more authority then God to override?

First of all, the Holy Spirit is given to those who OBEY...Acts 5:23, secondly, those who deny the power are denying the Blood of Jesus Christ, and redemption through the Blood. 2 Timothy 3 is talking about anti-christ.

So Dian, there is no power or punch in any of these words, because none are based on Truth, only your emotions, and now trying to back up your desires with mis-applied scriptures.

I'm sorry to sound so harsh sister, but I must be brutally honest with you, before you hurt yourself or someone else.

One day, if you take this to heart, you will thank me.

I am so delighted that you found the Lord, or rather He found YOU!

I can relate to your emotions. However God is not looking for EMOTIONAL Saints, but grounded ones, who's Power He works through you....and that comes only when YOU die to your emotions and desires, so that HIS can be Glorified. ( Your outbust to the Moderator is an example you are all of self...).

Love in Christ
Katy

I struggle with the spirit of religion from time to time... even tho I'm about as non-traditional as it gets. I get traditional at times about being non-traditional.

It's all a matter of pride.

Krispy

Dian, here are the scriptures concerning the children of Israel in Egypt, nothing about them being in bondage because of sin.

Romans 5 says that sin was not imputed to man from Adam to Moses, and Moses was not on the scene yet.
However, man, through Adams fall, all men died.

Exodus 1
1Now these are the names of the children of Israel, which came into Egypt; every man and his household came with Jacob.

2Reuben, Simeon, Levi, and Judah,

3Issachar, Zebulun, and Benjamin,

4Dan, and Naphtali, Gad, and Asher.

5And all the souls that came out of the loins of Jacob were seventy souls: for Joseph was in Egypt already.

6And Joseph died, and all his brethren, and all that generation.

7And the children of Israel were fruitful, and increased abundantly, and multiplied, and waxed exceeding mighty; and the land was filled with them.

8Now there arose up a new king over Egypt, which knew not Joseph.

9And he said unto his people, Behold, the people of the children of Israel are more and mightier than we:

10Come on, let us deal wisely with them; lest they multiply, and it come to pass, that, when there falleth out any war, they join also unto our enemies, and fight against us, and so get them up out of the land.

11Therefore they did set over them taskmasters to afflict them with their burdens. And they built for Pharaoh treasure cities, Pithom and Raamses.

Now, the only thing SI lacks is putting you on as a moderator so that every devilish, deceiver like me can be run off of here.

You see, that is waht I am talking about! You haven't hurt me by saying that, but you have hurt yourself.

No one is asking you to leave, nor was it my intention to RUN you off, but to advise you to study to [u][b]show yourself approved[/b][/u] rightly dividing the word of Truth.

Show your self approved.......Who does the approving? It's God, not yourself.

And trying to blame others for your lack of self control is another sign of immaturity.

Katy

And, as time has passed and there is evidence that this word is coming true - that God is bringing Americans out of bondage into true liberty in Christ - it's really difficult to know how you can justify being so adamant that this was not a word from God at all.

Dorcas, I haven't seen any evidence of the secular humanistic churches in America being overthrown and Godly Pastors taking their place preaching I AM CRUCIFIED WITH CHRIST, NO LONGER I BUT CHRIST IN ME.

Now, that is what it will take to bring anyone out of bondage into the Liberty In Christ.

However, with Joel Osteen and Rick Warren and the such....this is what I see in America running ramped.

So, where is this evidence you speak of? Not to mention many Churches have gone Home to Rome if you know what I mean.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

The preaching of the Cross will always be an offence until the Day Jesus Christ returns.

If you look in Revelation, concerning the two prophets......do you see many repent??? The answer is NO! They rejoiced at the death of the two prophets and sent gifts one to another because of their death.....Only AFTER they rose to their feet did the fear of God come over any.

Katy

PS:Added:

Also with the preaching of the cross comes Great Persecution to those who do. Have we seen such persecution of the Saints of America on the News broadcast around the World???

And Dorcas, sounds like England is going Home to Rome as well. So you believe God is setting America free, and putting you into deeper bondage to religion at the same time? :-(

I thought these lyrics by the Christian band "Jacob's Trouble" is quite appropriate to this thread...

[b]Is It True?
by Jacob's Trouble[/b]

[i]Is it true, is it true? Must I bow my head to talk to You?
Do I have to close my eyes? Won't You listen otherwise?
Is it true?
Am I bound by ritual? Can I simply be in love with You?
Can it be, can it be? Must I sit in church so quietly
In polyester pleated pants, never lifting up my hands
Can it be?
Am I bound 'cause it's tradition? Can't I simply enjoy being with You?

(Bridge:)
I've been told so many things, I don't know what to do
All the things that must be done if I'm to be with You
Does it really matter what's tradition, what is true?
I wanna know, I've got to know

Is it wrong, is it wrong?
Must I only sing the same old songs?
Someone said they're sacred so very many years ago
Is it wrong?
Am I bound by ritual? Could it be I've been free all along?

(repeat bridge)

Is it true, is it true? Must I say the words right after you?
Can I say my prayers alone, using words that are my own?
Is it true?
Am I bound by ritual? Can I simply talk it over with you?
Am I bound by ritual? Can I simply be in love with You?[/i]

Krispy

Katy-did wrote:
Dorcas, I would like to say I too have this gift.

I also know with this gift it is to re-iterate what is and has all ready been spoken.

I don't have dreams or visions, but rather deeper understanding of the truth.

Katy

Are you saying Katy that you have "the gift of prophecy" or are a prophetess ?

If this is challenge the prophets week, I'd like to join in here and say to you - I don't see it in you at all.

I see somewhat of a gift of apologetics, but you're doctrine is not perfect, neither is your discernment nor treatment of people.

__________________________________________

To Dian - dear Sis, are you saying you "got a word from God" - or that you have "the gift of prophecy" or that you are a prophetess ?

__________________________________________

Dorcas, you are a peacemaker and more.

And if Dian won't answer - do you know her well enough to answer for her.

Some folks have answered her rather well - others have been just down-right out for blood.

I've been saved 32 years in this country - and all I can say is that things have certainly changed immensely since then. My mentors back then were the three men, Ravenhill, Keith Green and David Wilkerson - who gave us the Classics to read. That was my Baby in Christ Bottle contents. That's all I read, to this day.
Since those days, I've seen house-churches grow out of almost no-where and increase to grow.

I would say that started about 20 years ago.

God is calling out His Elect - that's all I know.

Calling them to "come out of her My people".

__________________________________________

Ginnyrose, you should be a peacemaker, with His love -

Annie

I'm skeptical of anyone who claims to have the gift of prophecy. I've heard more prophetic utterances out of the mouths of 4 yr olds than I've heard from Christian adults who have to tell me they have the gift of prophecy.

Thats not a put down of anyone here... please dont take that personally. Just an observation I've made.

One man's prophecy is another man's mumbo jumbo most of the time.

Krispy

The confusion over the Gift of Prophecy or the Spirit of Prophecy is sad because of the special blessing that comes from reading and hearing the prophetic word through out all scripture. So many Prophecies yet to be fulfilled concerning Israel for one has been swept under the carpet, and replaced with the Church called replacement Theology, or reconstruction Theology or Dominion Theology.

The fact that the church today is not “keeping” (holding fast to the doctrinal value) the things that make up the Spirit of Prophecy.

***Keeping*** comes from the Greek word **tereo.** It mean to safeguard prophecy and prevent its dilution. (And Oh how the Apostate church has watered down things to come.)

It literally means to hold fast by watching.

Are you a watchman?

We have so much confusion over the interpretation prophecy, or the Gift of prophecy, and many running ahead by their own flesh have cast doubts and confusion on the whole testimony of this gift, or the spirit of prophecy at all. And we all know who the author of confusion is.

Paul says of the Gifts,

All are dealt a measure of faith in these truths, Romans 12, but God does say, those who have and hold to these truths, He can trust with holding more.

Yet, if you can't hold on to these, but run looking for something new and different, why would He trust you with something new and different????? There is nothing New and Different. This is all of the enemy to throw you off course as to the real issues of these last days......Saying Peace Peace when there is no peace!!!

Revelation 19:10 defines prophecy as being the testimony of Jesus Christ himself, Christ in You, the Hope of Glory. Do you have this testimony?

Also interesting, when John went to fall at the feet of the angel he was rebuked.....actually 3 times in Revelation was he rebuked for doing this....a warning in and of itself, that we are FELLOW workers, and that no one bow down to anyone except Jesus Christ.

Again:
It can't be stressed enough....

Rev 1:3 says, Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of ****this**** prophecy, and ****keep**** those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

Paul said:

1 Corinthians 4
1Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

2Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

The Gift of prophecy is that of safeguarding and KEEPING those things which were written before hand for our edification.

Do I doubt those who hold these truths and safeguard them....absolutely not.

Katy

Katy-did wrote:
Jeannette, reading the original post here, I see no mention of John 10, but Dian wanting some assurance that what she spoke is coming to pass. ***Breaking the spirit of religion over the ???? Body of Christ???

Dian didn't quote John 10, but John 10 is speaking of [i]the exact same thing[/i] as I thought she was saying.

Maybe you have never needed to be freed from empty religion, (very different from true Christianity). If so you are very blessed and [i]very, very unusual[/i].

I know only one person to date who was probably [i]never[/i], even from the beginning of her walk with the Lord, in any kind of religious or legalistic bondage.

On the other hand, I certainly was in a lot of legalistic bondage, and coming out of it was a huge struggle, and lasted long after I first became born again. It should not, and need not have been so, but it was. And there are many individuals I know or have met, including on SI, who are obviously still in such bondage.

Jesus is always breaking that bondage, the reformation for one.

we are more then conquers, and always have been, we are over comers, and the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the Church. These are Promises!!!!! No one need be exalted for knowing and being a part of this, or even proclaiming it.

And where in John 10 is such a mention of **breaking** the spirit of Religion,

9 I am the door: [i][u]by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture[/u][/i].[/color]

That's how He set me free anyway!

but I see quite the contrary.....those who belong to the Lord and are His don't follow religious spirits to begin with....no can hear!!! This is my point, and you just clarified yourself.

I don't believe though this is what is spoken of....but I do believe CCHHRRIIS said it perfectly....it is some sort of lingo used in many charismatic churches who are being called down by more down to earth fundamentalists of which those who believe in the fundamental truths of scripture are called as having a spirit of religion or pharisees.

Prophecy must certainly be tested in the light of Scripture, and is proved false if it isn't in line with the written Word. But I don't know if the word that Dian posted has been so proved. My impression is that it was simply judged and condemned out of hand.

How often too, those who say visions and dreams NOW override the very word of God, of which many here have rebuked this very thing.

But in what way is there any overriding of the Word of God? Please be specific.

If Dian has a burden in her heart, it should be to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ, other then this, all GIFTS are given to the Body FOR the Body....not to abuse the gift of Prophecy as though one is calling down Israel in their times of rebellion.

We are not a Theocracy that we need such calling down.

Dian has brought this prophecy to the Body, as represented by SI, for the very reason you say, that it is "FOR the Body". How is this abusing the gift?

Paul said, "despise not prophesyings". We need discernment, not despising. But I haven't seen any attempt to discern so far, not by Scripture or by the Spirit! I'm one of the don't knows" because of still not having read the whole; but what Dian has posted on this thread makes, to me, perfect sense Scripturally.

And what do you mean "calling down Israel in their times of rebellion" calling down from where??? What are you talking about?

AND Women are not to go around and Usurp authority over any Church in calling it down for having a spirit of religion...whether that Church is Christ's or just out right apostate.

I've never heard that expression...

I agree that Dian shouldn't have defended herself in the way that she did. Mike judged the prophecy to be false, though on what Scriptural grounds isn't clear, and I suppose that is that ["sigh" :-(]

But exactly what kind of usurping of authority are [i]you[/i] talking about??? the original post was not speaking of churches but individuals, speaking of what God is doing, not condemning or "calling down" anyone!

We have the Word right in our hands, as you so well quoted from.....We are sanctified through the Word, as the Holy Spirit ministers to us. We need no such medium.

So if the Church...His Body is off coarse, the Head, Jesus Christ will bring all those who belong to Him on coarse.

Unless you imagine that the Church is already mature and "full grown" and no longer has need of these ministries?

No prophets, you say? So maybe we should get rid of the rest as well - the whole lot - apostles, (you would reject that gift anyway, as not being needed in the Church today) prophets, evangelists, teachers and pastors?

Katy, you aren't really making much sense here!

Love in Him

Jeannette

Is It True?
by Jacob's Trouble

Is it true, is it true? Must I bow my head to talk to You?
Do I have to close my eyes? Won't You listen otherwise?
Is it true?
Am I bound by ritual? Can I simply be in love with You?
Can it be, can it be? Must I sit in church so quietly
In polyester pleated pants, never lifting up my hands
Can it be?
Am I bound 'cause it's tradition? Can't I simply enjoy being with You?

(Bridge:)
I've been told so many things, I don't know what to do
All the things that must be done if I'm to be with You
Does it really matter what's tradition, what is true?
I wanna know, I've got to know

Is it wrong, is it wrong?
Must I only sing the same old songs?
Someone said they're sacred so very many years ago
Is it wrong?
Am I bound by ritual? Could it be I've been free all along?

(repeat bridge)

Is it true, is it true? Must I say the words right after you?
Can I say my prayers alone, using words that are my own?
Is it true?
Am I bound by ritual? Can I simply talk it over with you?
Am I bound by ritual? Can I simply be in love with You?

Hi Jeannette, I guess you didn't understand my last post?????? If not ,then I can understand why you think what I said and have said is confusing.

Taking my last post, it is important to understand that what Dian has done here and said flies right in the face of what scripture says about prophecy itself.

We are good stewards of those things all ready given us.

Now, not to be mean, but I read on the other post what Dian said what...some 4 years ago, as though these were the actual words of God coming through her.

Now God is not the author of Confusion and does not manipulate the Word. To use the children of Israel in bondage in Egypt because of their SIN is a great big fabrication, and God cannot lie...He Just can't.

No where were they brought to Egypt because of their sin, or kept there because of their sin.

They were brought there because of the drought, and through Joseph not only was Egypt saved, but Israel itself. They stayed there for 400 years until the sin of the canaanites in the land promised to Israel was UP. I do suppose God gave them a chance to repent, but they didn't.

So to say that Dian got this Word from God is to say God lies.

A Word from God to the Church
I say, the Wind of my Spirit is about to blow across this continent, says the Lord. This is my warning and my decree and my promise.
The warning is to those who have been lukewarm in their seeking.
The decree is to my enemy, here, to let my people go!
The promise is to those who have submitted themselves to me and cried out to me that I will pour out my spirit in these Last Days.
I say to those recieving the warning, put on your sackcloth and ashes. Rend your garments. Weep and mourn and seek me with your whole heart and I will breathe on your dead bones. Don't kid yourself any longer. You have thought that you were rich, but the truth is, you are in abject spiritual poverty. You have thought that you were fully clothed, but the truth is, you are naked. Pray that I will have mercy upon you and open the eyes of your understanding. Humble yourselves before me until you feel the wind of my Spirit. If something inside you wiggles or jumps as a witness to this word, then lay yourself before me as an offering and I will consume the sacrifice, says the Lord.
Now, to my enemies, you Jezebel, who has intimidated and held my people, I say, "It's over! Your time is up! Release your position, now!" Blow, Wind, upon my enemies for destruction!
Blow, Wind, upon those lukewarm to bring division!
Blow, Wind upon my people to bring the Last Days promised revival!
To you who believe me, I will release a new wine and I will make you a new wineskin to contain it. You will be changed in this hour! There will be no more looking back. Look not, back! Flee to the spiritual mountains, the high places which you have dreamed about! Run! Run now, to me! Remember not the former days of thy spiritual youth. Run to me, now! We have a work to do. Fear not. Do not be dismayed, for I will take you there! I will not leave you. Don't look at the appearance of anything which opposes me. Look always to me and I will carry you over the top.

Now why all this when we have Philippians 3, and Ephesians, and all the other Apostles words for our edification and growth?

Then we have another put up by Dorcas of a cliff notes version of Dian's words
In case you thought Spitfire's post was too long to read an skipped over it, here is what I believe is the key section, into which to hope.

Spitfire said:

Here is what I have to share. God has spoken these things to my heart over the last 3 years:

God has shown me that the Church in America has been under the dominion of a demonic spirit of religion for about 400 years. When I first realized this, I began to command it to release the church. Then, through a series of things, I realized it had permission from God to be in power, and that I, nor anyone else, could force it to release us. This was a shock to me.

I then turned my attention to God in prayer. God showed me that this religious spirit is the spirit of pride which Satan was kicked out of heaven for. It is the spirit of the anti-christ. It was brought to this country by the original settlers. The first settlers came to America searching for religious freedom. They were fleeing persecution in Europe. In Europe, Catholocism had been legislated and was oppressing the "reformed church". The only problem was, they committed the same sins which were perpetrated against them in Europe. Native American Indians were forced to convert to Christianity. Some were even killed because they wouldn't convert. They said they wanted religious freedom, but because of the sin in their hearts, God gave them what they deserved, dead religion.

When I first started getting all this, I freaked out. I tried to find out if there were others who knew this. That's when I began to just talk to God about it. I realized that what I must do was to intercede, to stand in the gap and to repent on behalf of the Church. The Church had come under a judgement from God because of it's sin. The only way that judgement could be removed is through repentance. God himself would have to deliver the people, just as he had done for the children of Israel out of Egypt. God would have to issue the decree to the religious pharoah to "let my people go".

As I prayed concerning all these things, God spoke to my heart again. He told me, "I've already issued the orders--the reign of the spirit of religion over my Church in America has come to an end." The decree has gone forth to let God's people go that they may worship and serve him....'

I wonder whether the gathering number of saints here, who are being or have been released from their previous religious thinking, are proof that this word is from God?

There are serious questions about what will happen to those who do not break free, but, I would say this..... that in the same way that some of us have broken free of past bondage, the Way is open for those others who will walk in it.

OK, now this is nonsense. When someone sinned in Israel the Bible says, Israel sinned. Does this apply to America? Has God cursed Christians in America by sending a curse of bondage, because of what SOME may have done in the past?

Not all Israel is Israel but in Isaac shall thy seed be called.

Not all America is America either.

This is called Dominion Replacement Theology.

This is what I was referring to in my last post.

Katy

PS: That about Egypt is a dead giveaway of someone who has an incomplete understanding of scripture, and out of their own imagination or someone else's mislead, have used a falsehood to try to imply this is from God.

No I don't despise prophesying, I just don't take seriously misinformed prophets.

However the Power of Preaching the Gospel of Grace has and will always deliver anyone anywhere no matter what!!!!!!

Dian is preaching another gospel.....

We are all ready told.....

[b]The Holy Spirit doesn't deliver from Sin, Jesus death and resurrection life does. We are saved by His RISEN LIFE. A Spirit with out Jesus is counterfeit. We are set free by the spirit of the Life of Christ, that sets us free from the law of Sin and death.......[/b]

[EDIT***] Here is the actual post I was responding to. Katy got in between! :-)

Lor-E said:
"Quench not the Spirit. Despise not prophesyings, Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." I Thess. 5:19,20

"Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves." Philippians 2:2,3

"Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minster grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the Holy Spirit of God... Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you." Eph 4:29-32

"The scribes and the Parisees set in Moses' seat...But all their works they do for to be seen of men: ... Love the uppermost rooms at feasts and chief seats in the synagogues, and greeting in the markets, and to be called of men Rabbi... But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren....

And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves;, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in..

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. (Sounds like many American "churches" to me..) Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.

Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness."
Portions from Matt 23

When unsaved acquaintances have said they thought I was very religious I wanted to correct them so that they could understand the difference between simply being a "church-goer" and being a Christian; as most of them make no difference between one group and another. I mention to them: "Actually, please don't call me religious, a Bhuddist is religious, a Moslem is religious; but my goal is to be a Christian which means to be like Jesus Christ, and I want to be like Christ." and it has given me great opportunity to express to them the difference of having an alive relationship with Christ has made in my life.

Paul asked, "Would you not rather suffer loss?" when speaking of the relationsips within the church, please bear that in mind when you answer someone back, dear posters, brothers and sisters.

Just give me Jesus.....

Krispy

Just give me Jesus.....

Yes, because the truth is in Jesus. He is the Way, The TRUTH and the Life.

Nothing about sin here, but a sure word from God about His promise to Abraham and the time of their inhertance. In the 4th generation...400 years in Egypt , and after the iniquity of the Amorites is full.

Genesis 15
1After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

2And Abram said, LORD God, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus?

3And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

4And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

5And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

7And he said unto him, I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Chaldees, to give thee this land to inherit it.

8And he said, LORD God, whereby shall I know that I shall inherit it?

9And he said unto him, Take me an heifer of three years old, and a she goat of three years old, and a ram of three years old, and a turtledove, and a young pigeon.

10And he took unto him all these, and divided them in the midst, and laid each piece one against another: but the birds divided he not.

11And when the fowls came down upon the carcases, Abram drove them away.

12And when the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell upon Abram; and, lo, an horror of great darkness fell upon him.

13And he said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not theirs, and shall serve them; and they shall afflict them four hundred years;

14And also that nation, whom they shall serve, will I judge: and afterward shall they come out with great substance.

15And thou shalt go to thy fathers in peace; thou shalt be buried in a good old age.

[b]16But in the fourth generation they shall come hither again: for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet full. [/b]

17And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.

18In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

19The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites,

20And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims,

21And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.

Katy said:

Taking my last post, it is important to understand that what Dian has done here and said flies right in the face of what scripture says about prophecy itself.

We are good stewards of those things all ready given us.

Now, not to be mean, but I read on the other post what Dian said what...some 4 years ago, as though these were the actual words of God coming through her.

I certainly didn't understand much of what you've been getting at lately!

Haven't read the rest of your post yet, (probably no time tonight) but just want to answer the above bit first.

How is it unscriptural to speak as "thus sayeth the Lord" (not necessarily using those words)? As long as the message and the Spirit of the words are of Him, what's the problem? There should never be any claim to add to Scripture of course. But in true present-day prophecy this is not what is happening or what is claimed.

If it really [i]is[/i] the Lord who is speaking, then why not say so??? Of course you aren't being mean, because its perfectly OK to do that as long as it is of Him!

If your view is right, the OT prophets, and the writers of some of the Psalms were unscriptural too, becaue they quite often spoke as if they were God when they spoke or wrote His Word!

Come on now, you can't seriously believe that!!!

Of couirse there often is no need for someone with a prophecy to speak as God. If something is truly of Him it should normally be obvious to all who are in the Spirit. Equally obvious (usually) should it be when it [i]isn't[/i] of God! And if it isn't, then to say "Thus sayeth the Lord" is like forging His signature!

[u]Katy, anyone[/u]: Haven't you [i]ever[/i] started speaking or praying and suddenly become aware that the Lord has "lifted" the words - so that in some sense they aren't yours any more, but His?

There should be little risk of pride because you're just as much in awe of what came out of your mouth as anyone - it wasn't you at all but Him!

Haven't you ever had that experience, Katy? It's a very common one, even in those who are against spiritual gifts. You wouldn't [i]call[/i] it prophecy of course, but it was of Him in a way that your usual words could never be.

The only question re a particular word that is claimed as prophecy is if it really is of God or not. How its actually worded is irrelevant as long as the message and spirit of it is of Him, and comes forth with His authority.

Just to give an example: There was a meeting where someone stood up and said, "DO IT!" and sat down again.

In that meeting there was also a man who was hesitating about a decision that he had to make, though he knew deep down what God wanted him to do. God spoke to him through that word - surely the shortest prophecy ever!

But suppose several people in that meeting had received the same word, and spoken out what they had received...

Would they also say "DO IT!"? Probably not, because the Lord speaks to - and through - different individuals in different ways, depending on their personalities, experience etc, or on those who need to hear what is spoken, (someone once had a personal word for me using the illustration of baby turtles making their way to the sea - just right for a Biologist, but not at all the sort of illustration the person giving it would normally have used!)

You can see that even in the Books of the Bible itself. Each bears the imprint of the Holy Spirit but also of the human authorship. Isaiah is very different from Amos in style for example, and John's Gospel from Mark's.

So, in that meeting, someone might have had a vision or mental image of a person sitting on a fence (do you use that expression, "sitting on the fence" for someone who won't make up his mind?). The "interpretation" of that vision might be "You are sitting on the fence, refusing to make a decision. Get down, and get on with it!"

Or an elderly man might get up and say (using King James English out of habit), "Thus sayeth the Lord, Thou knowest what thou must do. Why haltest thou between two opinions?..."

Assuming that it really was God, which of those three would be the true prophecy?

All of them of course - including the one in KJV language!

It occurs to me that this debate is now nothing much to do with the correctness or otherwise of what Dian had, but the very nature of prophecy itself!

in Him

Jeannette

Lor_E, and Jeannette,

I do appreciate your words, and Lor_E also agree with all you said, Jeannette, I disagree with much of what you are saying.

To make a statement here let me first begin with Jesus Prayer in John 17

Sanctify them through thy truth, thy WORD is truth.

With that as a beginning, I must say this as well.

We are sanctified throught the Word. Do you know what sanctified means?

One, we have a built in GRID much like, if I could describe it, like an insect zapper.

It's the Holy Spirit who brings back TRUTH when something is spoken in error and says NO NO NO , remember what I said here...... so this false word goes ziiippppp zzaaapppp and it's gone.

Actuially it's so wonderful how God protects His Church from every wind of doctrine coming this way and that.

When I hear truth I am estatic..I don't care how lame the words are expressed through a person, or even if they can spell. We just know that we know that we know that it's a Word from God, because it witnesses with our own Spirits that it is truth. Yes, even rebukes.

I know you want to be nice and believe everything that is thrown at you, because after all, it sounds wonderful doesn't it. We all want to believe the wonderful don't we...I sure do.

But I also know God does not use examples in scripture totally distorted to fit in with someone's vision or dream. Because God cannot lie and say something happened that never happened at all, and then say it's going to happen here too, when in fact it never happened the way it was told to begin with.

And I'm the bad guy here for pointing that out.

Did I hear Dian call me a *know it all*, because I pointed this out? Yes.

Well, If reading my Bible, and the Lord stirring up my Spirit telling me...no this is not the way it happened, then do I keep quiet and look the other way....and that's what you call LOVE.

Maybe I am blunt...well yes I am blunt, but bluntness is not hatefulness, or pride...it's just blunt.

One tries to shame, the other tries to candy coat.

But even with that, I don't buy it..not one bit of it....too many GRIDS that keep that kind of stuff out.

Jesus came to save sinners, and America is probably the chief of sinners. So why would God put a curse of Bondage over a *Country* when He said..My Kingdom is not of this world.

Why are we told we are translated out of teh present evil age throujg Jesus Christ.

You see, Dian is putting sin in some sort of degrees of sin. God sees sin as sin period.

We are not Israel, or a Theocracy that God should treat America or any other country as though He were holding Israel accountable.

Jesus didn't come to save nations, but individuals.

Israel as a nation will have her day, and those dead bones will be brought to life, but that is not to America.

We can't just pull scripture out of here and there, but maybe you don't know that...I do however.

So, with that, we will never see eye to eye on many of these issues.

But I still love ya anyway!!!

Katy

Katy said: When I hear truth I am estatic..I don't care how lame theords are expressed throuhg a person, or even if they can spell. We just know that we know that we know that it's a Word from God, because it witnesses with our own Spirits that it is truth. Yes, even rebukes.

I know you want to be nice and believe everything that is thrown at you, because after all, it sounds wonderful doesn't it. We all want to believe the wonderful don't we...I sure do.]

I'm still not sure if you believe in [i]any[/i] kind of modern day prophetic gift, whether its scripturally based or not. Probably not, but what you are saying tends to get lost in all the many many words!

Not criticising, just that your output is phenomenal, and its impossible to keep up!!

I know its difficult, but can you try to say the same things in fewer words? It would be less confusing and more likely to be read!

I know you want to be nice and believe everything that is thrown at you, because after all, it sounds wonderful doesn't it. We all want to believe the wonderful don't we

I for one in no way believe everything that's thrown at me, though it would, as you say, be nice to be able to.

There was one occasion in a local church where someone had an utterance in tongues, that clearly needed interpretation. I had the sense that it was a very challenging word for the Church, even perhaps a rebuke. However, someone else in the meeting came out with an "interpretation" that sounded lovely - all positive, "God-loves-you-and-is-going-to-bless-you-mightily" sort of stuff. The only problem was that it wasn't actually what He was saying!

I prayed desperately for the true interpretation, but it was as if the Lord shrugged, in a resigned sort of way, and said, "Forget it, they won't listen now".

How sad - He was speaking and the church missed it, because they preferred ice cream and cake to meat!

It is [i]discernment[/i] we need, not the denial that the Lord speaks directly to His people today!

in Him

Jeannette

ps I [i]still[/i] haven't read Dian's original prophecy, and its gone midnight again!

Ah well...