BLASPHEMOUS "SAVED!" FILM

****** Warning; sexually graphic ******This is about a movie that homosexuals areusing to attack Christians. We need to pray!***************************************PRESS RELEASE Contact: Michael MarcavageREPENT AMERICAP.O. Box 30000Philadelphia, PA 191031-800-3-REPENT, Ext. 4For Immediate Release 6/10/04REPENT AMERICA CONDEMNS BLASPHEMOUS "SAVED!" FILM;AS OPEN HATRED OF GOD INTENSIFIES NATIONWIDEPHILADELPHIA - Christianity is now under attack at a movie theater near you. The blasphemous Saved! film produced by homosexual-rights-advocate, Brian Dannelly, is now showing in theaters nationwide. The production staff is composed of homosexuals and homosexual advocates, who are using the film to mock God and Jesus Christ and to demonize Christians, while glorifying the homosexual lifestyle.The perverse story of Saved! begins with a girl named Mary, labeled as a "super-Christian", whose boyfriend, Dean, surprisingly reveals, "I think I'm gay!". Jesus then appears to Mary in a vision and commands Mary to "save" Dean from homosexuality by having sex with him. Mary soon becomes angry at God and begins to doubt her Christian faith when she realizes that she is pregnant. During one scene in the film, Mary is staring at a cross and begins to spew vulgar profanity for the first time in her life. The story then continues as Dean's parents find his secret collection of homosexual pornography. Dean is then sent by his Christian parents to a homosexual rehabilitation center. At this center, Dean falls in love (lust) with another boy as they share the same room. As the film progresses, the blasphemy increases, as another "Christian" violently throws a Bible at Mary and yells, "I'm filled with the love of Christ". Another scene shows the same girl, knocking down a humongous plywood cut-out of a hippie-looking "Jesus" and screaming, "My butt knocked down Jesus".In addition, a wacky youth pastor and the principal of a Christian school prances around, making remarks, such as, "Are you ready to get your Jesus on?" This same youth pastor commits adultery with Mary's mother. In another scene, while faking to speak in tongues, a girl speaks profanity in "pig Latin" as she intentionally exposes her body at a school assembly. The film climaxes at the Christian prom when Dean arrives with his homosexual lover and declares, "I know in my heart that Jesus still loves me!""This is one of the most open and extreme attacks by Hollywood against Christianity in the history of the film industry," stated Michael Marcavage, Director of the Philadelphia-based REPENT AMERICA. "This blasphemous film is just another example of how homosexuals and homosexual advocates are displaying and advancing hatred toward Christians in America," he continued.The Scripture declares in Galatians 6:7, "Be not deceived; God is notmocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap." Reference: Blasphemous Saved! Film Website http://www.savedmovie.comREPENT AMERICA - CALLING A NATION IN REBELLION TOWARD GOD TO REPENTANCE Repent America is an evangelistic ministry based in the birthplace of America, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.Go to: http://www.RepentAmerica.com

Yeah, I have heard about this movie, but didn't REALLY know what it was about till I read this. I didn't know it had all this homosexual stuff in it. Just like Yolanda and I were talking about and what she posted. You can't see one movie now, that doesn't have some gay inuendo or scene in it. I don't really watch TV but yesterday I had it on while I was cooking dinner and that preview came on so I watched it and just from that, it was very sad. I saw that one part where the girl throws a book at the other girl and says "I'm filled with Christ love". or something like that. I was thinking, that this movie is going to give Chistians such a bad image. I just pray that this movie is a flop and doesn't interest many. I pray the gay rights people don't get their point across in this film.

Wow! That's what that movie is about?! I would have no idea! I know that Mandy Moore stars in it, if I'm thinking of the right movie, and in her interview she didn't talk about any of this homosexual stuff. She just said that she played a mean character in the setting of a Christian school, or something like that. I watched a bit of the trailer a couple months ago and it didn't seem like the movie was anything about homosexuality!You know, the saddest thing is they're probably making the previews specifically appeal to Christians and then they'll be in for a surprise when the film is totally not what they think it's about.Yeah, it's made me angry for sometime how they wrongly portray Christianity in a lot of movies. It stinks because that's the only poor "light" a lot of unbelievers are going to have of Christians, Christianity and God. But you know, on the other hand, despite the bad examples and wrong portrayals, if someone is truly looking for God, I think they will find Him.

Perhaps this movie will give Christians a bad name. But what about the reputation we Christians give ourselves?One must wonder how, in a nation, where so many profess Christ that a movie like this could be made? Maybe it is because so many professing Christians attend movies of this nature. If indeed man's chief end it to glorify God, we must ask, "What films really give glory to God?" And, if these movies don't glorify God, is it really necessary to go and see them? Perhaps a few movies honor God, but the majority...I knew a youth pastor who made a covenant with his friends that if they went to a film and there was ever a problem and the movie stopped, that one of them would stand up and share their testimony. He then recounted how at the first movie they went to after their covenant the film had a problem so one of them stood and gave his testimony. If that wasn't enough, it happened again at the second movie they went to. He said it really made you consider what movies you went to see. If you stood and gave your testimony in some trashy film, what witness would you provide?Something to think about...

Perhaps this movie will give Christians a bad name. But what about the reputation we Christians give ourselves?Well you know, call yourself a Christian, but the truth of the Bible will prove the truth of the name. There's a bunch of goats out there with the sheep, calling themselves sheep. But that doesn't change the fact that they're really goats. I'm using an illustration from the Bible. I don't know where it is, but I believe it's in one of the gospels.One of the things I absolutely HATED growing up in a public high school were the bad reports unbelievers gave me of other "Christians". It didn't make me ashamed to be a Christian too, but one thing the sad examples did for me was to encourage me to love those unbelievers I had an opportunity to witness to, to be different than those other so called Christians even if it meant I stood alone, and hope and pray that I could represent God to them as accurately as possible.One must wonder how, in a nation, where so many profess Christ that a movie like this could be made? Maybe it is because so many professing Christians attend movies of this nature.I don't think so. Besides, the article that started this post said that homosexuals were behind this movie partly as an attack on Christianity and mostly in support of their lifestyle. And like I said, the previews trick you. The one I saw didn't have anything obviously blasphemis on it. It seems like it's a movie about a Christian school. I think that's a part of the slap in the face.Whether Christians should watch movies or not... you know, that's going to be an ongoing debate. I don't think it's worth getting divided and offended over. I think that's one of those personal convictions. You also got to understand that these convictions come from growth in Christ. Everyone's at a different growth level and a lot of us are learning different things at different times. We can't learn everything all at once.Thank God for this article of warning about this movie because hopefully Christians won't end up going, in the end being embarrassed and shocked that the movie is really against them, not for them. Let's hope that no one has to learn the hard way and accidently support the enemy.

I totally agree that this movie grievs the Lord.I do have to interject one comment though from seeing the previews- that part they show where the "christian" girl throws her Bible at a girl and says "I am full of Christ's love"- in anger-- unforunately this is the view that many people have of Christians.There are many zealous christians that don't know how to show genuine love for sinners and in turn, end up throwing the Book at them.We can't yell or scorn people into becoming Christians. We can't try to debate it or prove it with manupulative intentions. We can't picket them or try to run them out of town. wehave to live a Christ-like life 100% of the time so that people can see that we are really changed by His love from the inside out- and that we are not hypocrites.I think Christians should take a second look at why they are being portrayed this way to begin with. We should be found blameless.Christians make a big fuss over these types of things but they rarely make a fuss over their own shortcomings. We should be just as grieved to see hidden sin in our hearts as we are in the world. Actually it shoyld grieve us more to see sin in the hearts of "Christians' because we should know better. What do you expect from the world? The world is of the world. I really don't expect much different than this. This kind of goes along with the whole superbowl thing that happened. Christians made a huge deal about all the explicitness- yet-- it's the christians who should have known in their hearts not to watch the Superbowl in the first place. if you're going to be in the world and do things with the world- expect them to act like the world.Just some thoughts. I know it won't go over well with everyone but I like to consider how jesus would actually respond to things. Would He say- "Let the world act like the world- you,come and help me with these homeless and poor over here- work while it is still day."~Chanin

The best thing to do, I hope we can all agree, is pray. How can God turn, once again, something bad into something that will glorify Him?We can pray that many "Christians" [quotation marks intentional] will be convicted of their legalism, hypocricy, and fence-sitting. Who knows...God may even reach the non-Christian intellectuals so that they'll think to themselves, "Hold on, now...that's not what Christianity's supposed to be all about...lemmie check this out..."I don't like it, mind you. I debate whether or not to see it...I've long held the view of not judging a book by it's cover. Hey, that's what kept me away from the Bible for so long.It may turn out to be one of those movies, like Bruce Almighty that seems outright and downright blasphemous in the previews (hey, gets people into the theaters paying the tickets), but ends up just not being up-to-par. Don't take me the wrong way...I don't consider Bruce Almighty to be Christian movie of the year. But the overlying message of "Don't blame God for your problems and issues...YOU are the root of the problem" sure sounds a lot like Step One in the salvation process to me.Here's a movie review that I thought was pretty good. Worth a read.http://www.christianitytoday.com/movies/reviews/saved.html

Reading this makes me strongly even consider how a Christian could even watch a movie like this.How about doing away with the practice of watching any movie at all except those which are clearly christian in nature or made by christians themselves. The fact that God would have to use hollywood (e.g., The Passion of the Christ) to reach Christians is something that should make us think. Is it because we Christians enjoy the same pleasures the world does? Without audiovisual aids (especially TV) the saints of old were able to lay hold of God, saw heavenly things and the beauty of God's holiness, understood the depths of God's heart in scripture simply because they were driven to their knees and not to the TV or movie screens.I'll make a little guess here. In all probability those preachers whose sermons are found here in SI either seldom watch or don't watch TV or movie at all. :-)

Without audiovisual aids (especially TV) the saints of old were able to lay hold of God, saw heavenly things and the beauty of God's holiness, understood the depths of God's heart in scripture simply because they were driven to their knees and not to the TV or movie screens.God have mercy on us! This statement just adds to the extreme urgency I feel in my heart to get back to God in our our prayer closets and begin to trevail before God for a real manifestation of the Holy Ghost. I have to ask myself, where are the days when Christians walked so close to God that sinners were convicted in their presence without them saying a word? There is way too much worldliness in the Church and I propose its because the ministers of the present don't walk with God as did the ministers of the past. Its pitiful that we have to have so much dash and pomp to try to get some peoples attention and then keep it during a service. I'm tired of mundane Christianity. If I never watched TV again it would be too soon. It is such a destraction from the precious presence of God. I heard a youth minister once say that Christians sit in front of CNN and Fox News and take it into their system "introveniously." I think its more like blood letting myself. The more Christians sit in front of it the weaker they get. It steals the presence of God and fills the heart with the spirit of AntiChrist. We have to get fed up and take the fight to the enemy on our knees and in our ministries- by pulling down strong holds. In 1993 a 19 year minister in our church preached a sermon titled, "May the lives of Thy Saints be Purged by Fire!" Beloved we need to subject ourselves to that fire once again and yield to the hand of the smelter! The refining fire of the Holy Ghost will purge the dross of these things that we might become chosen vessels! I'm reminded of Jeremiah, "The bellows are burned, the lead is consumed of the fire; the founder melteth in vain: for the wicked are not plucked away. Reprobate silver shall men call them, because the LORD hath rejected them." How hot does God have to get the Church in this nation before we repent?

I don't have a TV so I'm clueless about this movie except what i've read here. (I've never heard of it.) I'm shocked. Is this actually going to come out in theaters nationwide? Is this for public viewing? When does it come out? If all this is true, let not one Christian dollar go to support such filth.

I agree that there's a lot of lack of fear of the Lord anymore these days. I think a lot of "Christians" don't know what sin is anymore. I think a lot, especially youth, ask how close to the line they can get, when the question is how close to the Lord can you get? I did get that from several teachings by the way.[sigh] Concerning a comment along the lines of how sad it is to have to go through Hollywood to get Christian messages out (it was something about The Passion of Christ)... I don't know, is that sad? I've been learning about missions lately because I'm going on a trip next weekend, and one thing I learned was that God is a missionary God. And Jesus used culture to speak to people, for example, "I am the bread of life..." If you knew how important, culturally, bread was to the Jews, you would understand how important Jesus was saying He was. Now, if you were to go to, let's say China, and you tell them that Jesus is the bread of life, well, bread isn't important to them and they wouldn't get the deep meaning of that statement. So it would be okay to interpret to them that Jesus is the "rice" of life. My point is, TV, movies and entertainment in general is a big part of our culture so I don't think there's anything wrong with God's light, and good moral values coming out from it. Anything can be used for good or bad. Just because someone takes something and uses it for bad doesn't mean someone else can't come along and use that same thing for good. And I could go on and on about this and practically start another topic, but I won't. One more thing... yeah, so these "sermon" guys didn't have TV back then... who's to say that if they were living today they wouldn't have their sermons broadcasted on TV. And you know, you could argue that the Internet is bad, worldly and corrupt and no Christian should dare go on it. But look, this site is on the secular Internet and it's doing good for people. So I don't think you should put down how or where God's light comes out. I think it's a frivolous arguement.

Concerning a comment along the lines of how sad it is to have to go through Hollywood to get Christian messages out (it was something about The Passion of Christ)... I don't know, is that sad?Hmm, I think a sensitive area was touched here. Yodi, the exact statement wasThe fact that God would have to use hollywood (e.g., The Passion of the Christ) to reach Christians is something that should make us think. Is it because we Christians enjoy the same pleasures the world does? I was talking about Christians, not unbelievers. The issue, I believe, is not on the merits of TV, movie or the internet (although I still believe that much is junk) but as a source of pleasure for Christians. God reveals Himself as we seek Him with all our hearts. Yes, He may use TV, movie or internet for His purposes but our delight is not in these but in knowing who He is. In fact, even though this site is good and God given, our time spent here must never substitute or take away our time of fellowship with our Master. He may even require us to give up our ministry if that becomes a hindrance.I'll make a little guess here. In all probability those preachers whose sermons are found here in SI either seldom watch or don't watch TV or movie at allGreat victories come out only from great battles. Deep revelation come from earnest and wholehearted seeking of the Lord. The reason whyI made that guess or conclusion is due to the fact that when a Christian is so caught up with the Lover of his soul will he have time to be entertained by something else?Come to think of it, perhaps the reason why we are entertained by what entertains the world is because we haven't really seen the beauty of our God. If a face could launch a thousand ships to war I wonder what a Christian would do if he continually beholds the beauty of our Master and Lord?I understand there was TV during Ravenhill's time (he died 1986?). David Wilkerson, Carter Conlon are still alive. These three (at least) stopped watching TV at one point in their lives. I don't know about the others. It's still a matter of choice, I guess.And finally, peace, my sister :-)

Sorry for the misunderstanding. I think it does come down to choice, which comes from personal conviction. And, well, everyone's at a different place there, I think. I don't think anyone is really right or wrong, just as long as you're not entertaining yourself with stuff that's morally and Biblically against the Bible and God. I'm not against others who don't watch TV or movies at all. Better to be safe than sorry, right? But I wouldn't think bad of a Christian who did, of course taking into account that they weren't entertaining themselves with obviously spiritually grieving stuff.You know, I'm starting to think that maybe God calls some to totally abstain from the society and culture around them so He can use them, and then calls others to be in the society and culture to be a light. Somebody's gotta be praying and somebody else has got to be gettin' out there and witnessing, right? I think that might be where the different parts of the body come in. But yes, whatever our calling, I think we all should be seeking the Lord on what might be a hindrance to our particular calling.

Brethren, I believe we must ask ourselves the same question that Elisha posed, "WHERE IS THE LORD GOD OF ELIJAH" I am sure HE is not in theaters. It is amazing how against such things as plays, and entertainment the men and women of old were. I do not for one second believe that a woman such as Fanny Crosby(even with sight) partook much of the worldly delights of her day.Even sadder is that the trailer for this was shown prior to the Passion when i saw it, and people in the crowd giggled, and thought it cute, and entertaining.I believe bro. Ravenhill said something to this effect "Entertainment is Satan's substitue for joy" Better still, the same BIBLE we all read and profess to love and hold as true says "ALL that is in the world is not of the FATHER..."May GOD bless you all

So it would be okay to interpret to them that Jesus is the "rice" of life. My point is, TV, movies and entertainment in general is a big part of our culture so I don't think there's anything wrong with God's light, and good moral values coming out from it.Again I must quote the same thing said by brother Ravenhill:"Do you know what entertainment is? - Entertainmet is the devil substitute for joy. And the more joy you have in the Lord the less entertainment you need"Just came to my mind what brother Wilkerson said in one sermon, I don't remember the exact words but it was like "One day we will all stand in front of Jesus and we'll give account about every wasted hour in front of TV instead to spend time with Him"

Ummm... is Ravenhill a book of the Bible I never read? That was sarcastic. You know, I'm sure that guy has had some good things to say, but he is just a guy. I don't know of any verse in the Bible that says entertainment is the devil's substitute for joy. I don't mean to put down a brother. That's not my point. My point is that quote is a man's opinion.The devil also had the gift of music. Should we not play or listen to music? You know, he's in control of a lot of things down here on earth because for the time being he's the Prince of this place. But that doesn't mean God's light can't shine where he tries to destroy.And you know, the different charateristics that make us up were made in the image of God. You look at creation and you get a wee glimpse at the creativity of our Creator. I doubt that He gets mad at us being entertained. I think that's something that makes up a human being just like laughter and tears do. There's nothing wrong with enjoying, as long as we're enjoying things that wouldn't grieve the Lord.I don't know why I keep putting in input concerning the "entertainment" topic because all it's created is a circle shaped path. One day I'll finally just be silent. In the meantime, this is my opinion.

I'm done with it, I am finished with the world. Have your concscience clear before God.Beloved,"The world is about to burn and its foundations shaken by the Almighty Hand of God and Christians sit nonchalantly before their TV idol wasting precious time. How Satan and the hordes of hell must laugh with glee at the sight of millions of Christians sitting before their Babylonian Idol Box LOOSING their ZEAL for God." (Set the Trumpet To they Mouth; David Wilkerson, 1995 P.79). Beloved and faithful in the Lord, you're liable to be sitting in front of some filthy movie and the Spirit of God lift right off you. We are living in times when the judgment of God could hit at any second. And JUDGMENT will begin at the house of God. I can't do it anymore. My knees would knock together sitting watching some sin before my eyes. I've vexed the Holy Ghost all I'm going to. We can't even come to God without the Holy Spirit. The salt has lost all the savor its going to in my life. Think about Hebrews 5 where we find the people refusing to exercise (control) their senses and end up needing to go back on the Milk of God's word again. The Meat belongs to those who by reason of using the word- exercise their senses to discern good and evil.I have to agree with you Bro. Greg. I have to let the word speak and say that when we love the world and the things of this world 1 John 2 says the love of the Father is not in us. Friendship with the world is enmity against God. Wherefor come out from among them and be ye seperate saith the Lord, touch not the unclean thing and I will receive you. Psalm 101 I will set no evil thing before mine eyes. Blessed is the man that condemeth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. And again- let us lay aside EVERY weight and the sin that does so easily beset us. Neither be ye partakers of other men's sins.The list of scriptures against worldliness is so long I wonder how I could have ever ignored them. God forgive me for the time I have wasted in front of secular TV. I am a diferent person since I have begun being detoxed from that stuff. I feel so much healthier spiritually.I'll go on record and say God will use only those who will turn from such things to bring Real Revival in this land. Maybe its my first John the Baptist remark- but if so- so be it.God Bless,-Robert

Ummm... is Ravenhill a book of the Bible I never read? That was sarcastic. You know, I'm sure that guy has had some good things to say, but he is just a guy. I don't know of any verse in the Bible that says entertainment is the devil's substitute for joy. I don't mean to put down a brother. That's not my point. My point is that quote is a man's opinion.I honestly think this is a very valid point that yolanda has brought up. I have been guilty myself of "following one particular 'man's' teaching- as if they were the bible almost. Even if a man may be a 'prophet' in this day and age- he is still a man.Now I say this, that each of you says, "I am of Paul," or "I am of Apollos," or "I am of Cephas," or "I am of Christ." 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? Was ravenhill crucified for you? Or were we baptized in the name of Wilkerson?I think we have to be very careful about how much we "idolize" these teachers/preachers. We have the Word of God. We can know the truth even without all of these teachers. We have the Holy Spirit to teach us also. I am not saying that these guys don't have absolutely great and wonderful things to say- they do! But we have to be careful about putting all our learning in one kind of basket. How many of us read the bible more than we read books written from mere men? I have been guilty here. And I am ashamed that i am. I think this offends God.About the whole t.v. and movie thing- we have gone over this before. It's about our hearts people. If you feel in your heart that it is not right for you to watch t.v EVER- then by the grace of God, don't EVER watch t.v. Don't say one thing to sound good and righteous and then do another thing. If some of these statements from some on SI are true- then we might as well make a Christian LAW that says no Christian can be a good christian unless they get rid of their t.v. I think this is a little extreme.I am all for holiness!!! I am all for surrender!!!! But it's about the heart! Our motives. Are we obeying God in the areas He has shown us that we need to be surrendering to Him.I think if He is showing someone that they need to work on forgiveness, or someone else about surrendering their computer time for serving in a nursing home- I think this would be much more important to the Lord because it is OBEDIENCE. Obedience is better than sacrifice! We can sacrifice all kinds of seemingly 'worldly' things and think that is going to make us closer to God- but it's obedience to Him- in the areas one by one that He shows to each of His children.Hey, if someone has a problem with watching filthy shows and you know the Lord wants you to get rid of your t.v.- then by all means - do it! But that does not mean that EVERYONE has a problem with watching filthy t.v. shows. Everyone has their own areas where they are weak. Mine would be looking at fitness magazines because it puts me right back to my strongholds again.We have to be so careful about making sweeping, general statements for Christians. We are not God. Ravenhill was not God. If you really believe that God is telling you to get rid of your t.v. because you are wasting too much time on it or getting too many images from it- then don't be a hypocrite by keeping the darn thing anyway. Please let's not say and exhort others to do something that we don't know if we are going to do ourselves. And even if we do obey in that area that God shows us- it may not be the same area He is working on someone else.Just my 2cents. I don't want to offend or make anyone angry. If I am wrong, then may God show me for I am willing to be wrong.In Christ, Chanin

Just turn the stupid thing off, spend some time with the Lord and come back in a couple of months if you dare and turn it back on and see if it doesn't look different to you...I like my sports, but not that much. This isn't an issue of 'legalism' but of spirituality. Certainly there are some programs you could watch that are harmless and maybe even beneficial, The History Channel, some news, not much 'religious programming' sadly, at least around here. But even then it's not ten minutes into something that you are bombarded with commercials...why go into it all?It is the spirit of this age, the world and all it's influence, Wilkerson is right and so is Ravenhill and Tozer and a host of other 'old' preachers that caught wind of what this would bring long before it got to these stages. It's not even the blatantly obvious anymore but the subtle, insipid dumbing down of the masses. Appealing to the lower nature and all it's selfishness, lust and greed, but with a happy :-) face! It's a big lulling to sleep. Why is it that we must be entertained everyday? Doesn't it seem odd that a vast majority of the masses just go through life with no real idea of where they are heading, day after day, off to work and then come home to relax by having their brains lobotomized by some insipid TV program? Do we have to have a steady diet of NOISE all the time?Can a Christian just naturally fall in line with the world and partake of this without it affecting them spiritually? Is this bashing 'entertainment'? Maybe, but is it really all that 'entertaining' to begin with? If this is part of your normal fare, do you recall what you watched 2 weeks ago? Did it better your life or those around you? Bring you closer to God? Did anything cause you to change the channel or even turn it off? Have you ever thought that the Lord lives in you and does He approve, while you are watching? Is that legalism? Is it causing you to grow or wither?Look, this is certainly an individual thing to some extent. I am not 'legalistic' about it, but grew weary of 90% of TV and the movies a long time ago and that's me and I wouldn't press my convictions on anybody. It just grieves me to see so many sucked into the void without any kind of reflection whatsoever and the usual cry is 'legalist'! Why is that? The label doesn't bother me in the slightest, but why the defending? What is the defense? Seriously? It's not a provocation, just questions that I wonder if many ever bother to ask themselves or the Lord.Same with the music...We are to love our God with all our heart all our strength and all our mind why is that last part, seemingly the very last part?Something that I still have to get a grasp of is what Watchman Nee talked often about regarding the Spirit, Soul and Body and the roles each plays in our make up. From what I can grasp, I would gather that the vast majority of these things appeal to the lower nature. Seems there is a much better place we could be than dwelling there. The warnings from those before us and even with us are not a design on some kind of ban on 'entertainment', certainly we of the serious sort could use to loosen up a bit at times, but it is because they care for your souls. Take a look through your bible and see where the saints whose lives we are to model were, what was their desire, how did they order their lives?Meant to reply about Keith Daniel in the other thread and his thoughts on music in these times. I think he is right, there is something very wrong with much of even 'Christian' music, it's the subtle creeping of the world into it..something that I can't quite put my finger on, but it still boils down to some key issues; Is it true? True to the spirit of Truth. Is it real? Not, does it have aspects of these things, but is it really doing what it purports to do. To worship God, to bring glory to His name? As King Jimmy also pointed out there, he did say 'be careful'....These are just a lot of the questions floating around in my mind.I turn over the soap box...

And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double. (Revelation 18:2-6)Beloved,There is definately a point that people reach spiritually when they can no longer tolerate the things of this world. Christ loved righteousness and hated iniquity. He sat among sinners, but did not partake of their sins. Those who sat in darkness saw a great light when He came on the scene. A child of God should never feel comfortable in an atmosphere of sin. I had a group of teenagers at church tell one of my Christian friends last Sunday AM that they did not like going to church because church was not "fun." The Spirit of God is constantly being challenged by MTV and a host of other flesh feeding programs. I remember the impact that 90210, MTV, and Friends had on the last generation of youth. They would come to church braxen and late- with Burger King sacks to eat while the minister spoke. You would have thought it was Fast Times at Ridgemont High. They ran that teacher out of the Church until they got one in there that would accomidate their madness. What was happening? They were so FULL of the spirit of Antichrist and rebellion through secular media that were were almost unreachable. Do secular TV and radio stations, especially shows and music that we know that Christ would never watch or listen to, sow to or 'pipe' to the flesh? Does it strengthen our sin nature to want to rise up against us? Moreover, can we cast these thoughts and imaginations down as fast as they are coming into our minds? (II Corinthians 10:4) If every thought and imagination cannot all be taken captive what are they doing to us? They are amassing to become strongholds of lies.I mentioned this last week in the Seminar that I worked with a young guy who OD'ed on some heavy drug. It scared him so bad that he went to church to 'get saved.' He threw out all his Tool, and other sore music into the trash. He commented that, though he was a professed alcoholic and smoker- the music was the hardest thing to give up. When he found relief he backslid again and commented, "The next time I get saved I'm going to put my CD's in the attic so I don't have to buy them again if I backslide." That hit the nail on the head right there. He associated worldly living with the old music and what it did for him. He called it getting a free "high" to be angry and much of that anger would be fueled by the moshing music. Maybe that is why my ministry is not growing as fast as the modern church growth Churches; these are the things I teach. How can I love Christ with all my heart when that love is constantly being challenged to be divided up to other things? Christians have all sorts of joyful things they can do. Fun is a temporary emotion that requires that something keep feeding into it; but the JOY of the Lord is our strength. I can do things to have fun- but when that fun dies down- it just levels off at a constant level of JOY that the Holy Spirit is feeding. For those who know not the Lord or who so grieve the Holy Spirit by partaking of other peoples sins- they will have to feed a bottomless pit of 'Fun' to try to compensate for the lack of Joy brought about by the absence of the Holy Spirit. Beloved, what we have been doing has gotten us where we are. If we keep doing what we did we wil keep getting the same results. Do you hear the gentle nudging of the Holy Ghost saying, "Come out of her my people...?"God Bless,-Robert

Robert W, Chanin (MoreofHim) & Crsschk:Thank God for the ways He has spoken to each one of our hearts! To live in obedience to the things God has personally spoken to us in each one of our walks, to have a heart to be more Christ-like and less like the world! May that heart and desire spread to every Christian, no matter where in their walks they are! May we each fall more and more in love with our Creator, the Lover of our soul, which will make the things of this life less appealing. May we all taste and see that the Lord is truly good!May we all continue to be encouraged by how God is living through each one of us! And for those maybe asleep in the darkness, may God's marvelous light awaken you and His faithful love touch your heart and draw you nearer to Him! God bless you all!

Sister Yodi,Thanks so much for the encouragement! I feel that sermonindex and the good folks that meet here desire to provoke each other to love and to good works. I was thinking about trying to keep secular influences out of our lives. I read through a different post on another thread you posted and it encouraged me. I have literally destroyed VCR's and TV's because of my temptations to yield to them. I was literally mad and felt I had to get rid of those stepping stones to sin. I needed to get them out of my life because I was weak and would readily misuse them. Eventually I bought another VCR and DVD player. Today I use my DVD player to play old timey sermons and my VCR to play videos that edify. Sometimes I talk past people and need mercy. I read a thread where you made the point (to paraphrase) that movies that do not glorify Christ should not be watched. We agree with that I believe. Leonard Ravinhill made reference once to a nature film he watched (he watched TV rarely he said) and made a spiritual application from what he saw concerning the new birth. This is certainly different from grieving the Holy Spirit as I'm sure we would all agree. :-) We all want to please God I believe.I think it is good to reflect on the purpose of sermonindex also. Many here are ready to cast off whatever it takes to see revival. If its hindering revival- its gone. I don't ever want to become legalistic in the sense that many preachers of decades ago in our circles did. They preached a gospel that was impossible to live, even for them. There were several of these men. Nearly all of these men backslid. When you asked them why they said; they couldn't live it. They preached against everything from high-heels to coffee. Godly women would hear these sermons and drink hot water with sugar and cream in it. This stuff actually happened. Thats what happens when 'holiness' goes crazy. We need the highest standard of Christianity without bondage- and if I might quote Keith Daniel, "If the holiness isn't a reflection of Christ- its heresy." (Paraphrase) I'm just trying to get to God. I'm trying to press in. We need a revival to the love we had a first for God- when He consumed our minds. When you are in love- you don't have to set rules to promote that love- it just comes naturally. No need for routines- because you eat sleep and breathe the person who you are in love with. No legalism. No coersion. May we get back to the love we had at first for Christ! Lord let it be all the more in my life. Let it be the burning fire that drives my life and fuels my zeal!God Bless,-Robert

Wow, RobertW, good stuff! Cool, I encouraged you? Well, you did the same for me! My Spirit rejoices knowing that we have the same heart to please and love our Lord!Hey, thanks for sharing personally the background to how you feel about TV and stuff. It's good to hear the background to why we're so passionate about our convictions, what we believe, and what God has taught us. I know it helps me personally understand where you're coming from. We all have a story, we all have our experiences, and we all have a background. May we all seek to understand where others are coming from. Thanks for explaining. And God bless you for your obedience to cast off the things that came between you and God.And concerning revival, may it start in our own hearts, and by God's grace, may it spread to the hearts of many others! May we always be open to be taught, to learn, and to be molded more into the image of God. And may God help us to do all these things in love!

My!Can I be brutally honest here?After posting my reply last night and not seeing Chanin's until I had submitted it, I also took to heart what she had said and as usually is the case, these things tend to run replays in my mind.Chanin said:We have to be so careful about making sweeping, general statements for Christians. We are not God. Ravenhill was not God. If you really believe that God is telling you to get rid of your t.v. because you are wasting too much time on it or getting too many images from it- then don't be a hypocrite by keeping the darn thing anyway. Please let's not say and exhort others to do something that we don't know if we are going to do ourselves. And even if we do obey in that area that God shows us- it may not be the same area He is working on someone else.Thanks sister, it is a good point. Something I have noticed is how there can be these kind of underlying themes at times running through the forum...It's actually very interesting, almost as if the Holy Spirit is stirring us to deal with certain things. We bring them out into the light, examine them, talk about it, our passions get stirred, emotions can come into play..our hearts come out into the open. The things we can have a very strong bent about one day can die down to a simmer days later, often upon reflecting on what one of us has said that we didn't think of.Just my 2cents. I don't want to offend or make anyone angry. If I am wrong, then may God show me for I am willing to be wrong.Sometimes it's good to be offended, if it leads to edification. Jesus certainly offended many. But the motive behind it, always is what is telling and sometimes even with the best of effort and intention it doesn't always come out the way we would have liked. And absolutely, I too am willing to be wrong, may the Lord show us all directly or through the brethren.Eph 4:13 And this until we all come into the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ;Robert and Yodi, what can I say? I was actually almost expecting a backlash to be honest, which would be fine, still think it would be best just to turn off the stupid thing ... :-)But your responses encouraged me as well and said it even better than I could have. My honesty part in much of the tangent is that I see it around me. Family members that are sucked into it to an unhealthy extent and thus my particular bent. But I am learning, I can preach it (or against it), live it and pray about it. But the order does seem to make a huge difference. Pray. Live it first and then if necessary 'preach' about it and even that is circumstantial and the spirit it is done in. Have failed much by going about it in the wrong way, when my zeal is without knowledge, my frustrations get the better of me...much to learn. Does it make me angry or want to cry? Can be angry and still not sin, but isn't that the Fathers heart, that He hates sin because it is what is destroying His Creation?Yodi said:It's good to hear the background to why we're so passionate about our convictions, what we believe, and what God has taught us. I know it helps me personally understand where you're coming from. We all have a story, we all have our experiences, and we all have a background. May we all seek to understand where others are coming from. Thanks for explaining. And God bless you for your obedience to cast off the things that came between you and God.Excellent words!Robert said:I'm just trying to get to God. I'm trying to press in. We need a revival to the love we had a first for God- when He consumed our minds. When you are in love- you don't have to set rules to promote that love- it just comes naturally. No need for routines- because you eat sleep and breathe the person who you are in love with. No legalism. No coersion. That is it, is it not?I am wholeheartedly with you there brother. Amen!

The whole thing you brought up about zeal came to mind last night while thinking about the discussions on this site. Glad you covered that in your post. I would have to say, one of the ways I've been blessed the most on this forum is learning how to speak to you all. Am I going to be sensitive to other Christians' views whose true hearts are to love the Lord through their lives, or pridefully just try to get my point across? Even when posting things that I'm aware will rub some people the wrong way, I've totally made sure to pray about it and check my heart for the motives of why I would dare to be so bold to post something that may not be popular.This topic has turned out to be quite encouraging, uplifting, and... just reading the last post, I felt like the Spirit inside me was smiling at the unity on here! It is so comforting to know that other Christians have the same heart to want to please the Lord as best as possible. May we look forward, each day, to what God would want to teach us through His Word, our prayers, talking with other Christians, etc.!

My what a blessing you are to all of us sister.I would have to say, one of the ways I've been blessed the most on this forum is learning how to speak to you all.And boy am I still learning...Want to come help bail me out of the mess I created in another thread? :-) Am I going to be sensitive to other Christians' views whose true hearts are to love the Lord through their lives, or pridefully just try to get my point across?Amen! Could care less about getting my point across though that does get betrayed sometimes against my better judgement...of course if I had better judgement... :-? Even when posting things that I'm aware will rub some people the wrong way, I've totally made sure to pray about it and check my heart for the motives of why I would dare to be so bold to post something that may not be popular.Something very key there; "to pray about it and check my heart..."How often I have told myself those words and often the tounge (or the fingers in this case) went running off without doing so, a great reminder...This topic has turned out to be quite encouraging, uplifting, and... just reading the last post, I felt like the Spirit inside me was smiling at the unity on here! It is so comforting to know that other Christians have the same heart to want to please the Lord as best as possible. And for the finishing touch, this says it O so well. Without a doubt it is what drives this site and perhaps in my jealousy to try and keep that intact somewhat or somehow can be prone to over doing it.Such wonderful words well said, thank you Yodi!

And boy am I still learning...Want to come help bail me out of the mess I created in another thread?Uh oh. What thread was that, may I dare ask?Such wonderful words well said, thank you Yodi!No problem.