Matt. 3:16-17; "And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased."
Now if Jesus was the same person as God The Father then Christ was a ventriloquist.
Brother - there are only four groups of 'christians' that you could be directing this thread at, Trinitarians, Unitarians, the latest group that doesn't believe in the Deity/Trinity Messianics or Oneness folks.
Who are you asking this for?
Thanks!!!
God is always present, all-mighty, and can
express Himself in any way He so desires!!
And He very much wanted His Only Son to know
He was delighted with HIM!! Why it is so
diificult for you to accept the incarnate
Word made flesh, the expression of the Father's
redeeming grace, love, mercy, and truth ??
Tears of Joy (I beleive) said this in another post, but it is a great question for everyone.
Please explain how 1 + 1 + 1 = 1
Once you figure this equation out, you will understand the Trinity. Until that time, you will not understand the Trinity in its fullest.
Hope this helps :-)
Brother, the very title of this thread grieves me. It's irreverent and shows a great lack of the fear of the Lord.
If you have questions or want to begin a discussion about something, there are proper ways to do so without being insulting to either God or your brothers and sisters in Christ.
Shouldn't it be
Miccah wrote:
Tears of Joy (I beleive) said this in another post, but it is a great question for everyone.
Please explain how 1 + 1 + 1 = 1
Once you figure this equation out, you will understand the Trinity. Until that time, you will not understand the Trinity in its fullest.Hope this helps :-)
To me the passage means Father, Son and Holy Spirit coming together at one point on the earth and into time, to begin the work of redemption.
There's a little Christmas poem that has the lines
[i]"God steps into time
From Everlastingness"
...Yes, it is a horrible title for a thread, and would only make sense to those groups of people mentioned.
Can it be changed?
Jeannette
you've hit the nail on the head.Brother, the very title of this thread grieves me. It's irreverent and shows a great lack of the fear of the Lord.
what is the purpose of this title? shock value? irreverance??
i don't get it. like brother keith said, if there is a question or concern, ask away. but let's do it in the fear of the Lord.
phil
quotes: [i]Please explain how 1 + 1 + 1 = 1
Once you figure this equation out, you will understand the Trinity. Until that time, you will not understand the Trinity in its fullest
and
quote: [i]Shouldn't it be
1 x 1 x 1 = 1? Which makes more sense spiritually as well as mathematically!
The answer to this mathematical conundrum is well explained here: [b]www.torahofmessiah.com
Stephen
I am also wondering to whom and why the question was posed in such a manner
:-?
I believe the trinity is one of the foremost ideas that must be accepted by faith. It is undoubtedly true but some people have a need to fully understand things before believing them. The problem is, that's going to be impossible to do with God. If God were a God I could fully understand, I frankly wouldn't want Him to be God. Understanding the concept of a triune God is incomprehensible to the human mind.
The Bible is very clear that there is one God. It also teaches that the Father is God, that Jesus is God and that the Holy Spirit is God. Even the word "trinity," which isn't used in the Bible at all, is man's way of applying some level of understanding to one God made up of three "Persons."
There are scriptures galore to show all of this. All of the Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic words in scripture that explain the trinity have all been studied to full assurance by Bible scholars and laymen alike.
There is simply no other choice but to either accept it by faith or to reject it completely. Seeking God diligently in prayer should certainly resolve the matter.
Edited to Add: Please forgive me and the tone of my post. After re-reading it, I didn't like the way it came across. More time should have been taken longer to review it before submitting. No harshness or judgment in what I said. I'm afraid I came across as looking down on anyone who is struggling to understand an understandably difficult concept to wrap the mind around. I sincerely apologize.
dear stephen, if you want to discuss the trinity, create a thread and discuss it. but linking torahofmessiah.com does nothing to further talks, but your own agenda.The answer to this mathematical conondrum is well explained here: www.torahofmessiah.com
Stephen
just my take man,
phil
you've hit the nail on the head.
LoveHim wrote:Brother, the very title of this thread grieves me. It's irreverent and shows a great lack of the fear of the Lord.
what is the purpose of this title? shock value? irreverance??
i don't get it. like brother keith said, if there is a question or concern, ask away. but let's do it in the fear of the Lord.
That being said...
Since when were we supposed to [i]understand
I have never been offended by a question by people in regard to the concept of a "trinity." When I first came to the Lord, I had no idea if the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit were one and the same. The entire idea seemed quite foreign to me. In fact, I worried about the possibility of worshipping Jesus -- when in fact, I should only bow before God. If Jesus was NOT God -- then I could not bow my knee to Him. So I went about reading the Word of God to look for an answer to this issue.
It didn't take long before I came to a conclusion that Jesus was both the Son of God and one with God. I know that this can't make much sense to our limited human intellects, but the concept of a "trinity" is certainly presented in the Word of God.
It completely changes our understanding of God's plan for salvation. God created us, set up an eternal Law that required obedience AND sacrifice, gave us FREE WILL, watched us fail at fulfilling the Law, and knew the end of disobedience (eternal damnation). So what did He do?
He became flesh and dwelt among us.
He was PERFECT.
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
He walked as a human being, tempted in every way as we are.
He allowed Himself to be mocked, accused, tortured, and killed by His own earthly creation.
The sacrifice of Jesus become all the more powerful when we realize that it was the blood of our God that was being shed -- rather than the blood of a mere angel or "perfect man."
My paternal grandmother was a Jew. She, like many others, had difficulty in understanding the concept of a Messiah that is also “G-d.” To many Jews, the Messiah is supposed to be a [i]human prince[i]Yeshua
“[i]He came unto His own, and His own did not receive Him.
As a Jew, Keith Green struggled with the notion of a Messiah who was both Man and God. His struggles are presented in the biography written by his wife, Melody, in [i]No Compromise: The Life Story of Keith Green[i]Trinity
“In the beginning was the Word, [b]and the Word was with God, and the Word was God[b]He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not[b]And the Word was made flesh
“In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth.” - Genesis 1:1
:-)
The answer to this mathematical conundrum is well explained here:
Strider100 wrote::[i]Shouldn't it be
1 x 1 x 1 = 1? Which makes more sense spiritually as well as mathematically![/i]
Jeannette
freecd,
you forgot:
magician: turned water into wine
acrobat: walked on water
concessions vendor: multiplied the loaves
clown: turned hatred (frown) upsidedown
bub
Indeed!
ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:Since when were we supposed to
[i]understand[/i] the mind and makeup of God?
You are right, thanks for the reminder. Actually it isn't the question as such that offends, but using a question to push an agenda. Especially an agenda that has some definite characteristics of a cult.I have never been offended by a question by people in regard to the concept of a "trinity."
Me neither.When I first came to the Lord, I had no idea if the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit were one and the same. The entire idea seemed quite foreign to me.
At first I had no idea that Jesus had anything to do with the wonderful thing that had happened to me, I only knew that I could now call God, "Father" and that somehow He had come into my life in a totally new way, and I would never be the same again.
Then, less than a week later, someone asked me "Do you love the Lord Jesus?", and instantly such love and worship welled up in my heart, "Oh, YES!!!"
Some time later I was wrestling with the concept of the Holy Spirit. I knew the Bible said that He is a person, and He is God, but couldn't seem to "get it" deep down. So I asked Him to show me, (the first time of probably only twice I have ever prayed [i]to
And He did!
AMEN! I think we came to this truth from opposite ends, Chris :-); you found out by studying the Bible first, I found out by encounter with the Lord ("all" of Him, Father first, Son second, Holy Spirit third)! Then discovered more and more of the Scriptural evidence to confirm what He had already showed me.So I went about reading the Word of God to look for an answer to this issue.It didn't take long before I came to a conclusion that Jesus was both the Son of God and one with God. I know that this can't make much sense to our limited human intellects, but the concept of a "trinity" is certainly presented in the Word of God.
That in itself should cause us to bow down in amazed awe and worship....He became flesh and dwelt among us.
He was PERFECT.
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
He walked as a human being, tempted in every way as we are.
He allowed Himself to be mocked, accused, tortured, and killed by His own earthly creation.
Yes, I can understand anyone struggling with this concept. What I have difficulty with is someone who isn'tMy paternal grandmother was a Jew. She, like many others, had difficulty in understanding the concept of a Messiah that is also “G-d.” To many Jews, the Messiah is supposed to be a[i]human prince[/i] – or a “Moshiach ben David” (Messiah, son of David) which would be anointed as both a King and conqueror. Theoretically, Messiah was supposed to conquer the Earth and restore the Kingdom of Israel. This was the cause for the question by His disciples in Acts chapter 1 (about “restoring the Kingdom of Israel”). Yet, Jesus Christ ([i]Yeshua[/i] Ha’Mashiach) came – not as a prince born in a palace, but one that was born in a manger. Instead of coming with a sword, He came as a sacrifice. Instead of being given a crown of Gold, He was offered a crown of thorns.“
[i]He came unto His own, and His own did not receive Him.[/i] ” (John 1:11)As a Jew, Keith Green struggled with the notion of a Messiah who was both Man and God...
As has been said before, the rules of Greek grammar mean that“In the beginning was the Word,[b]and the Word was with God, and the Word was God[/b] .
John 1:1The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.[b]He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not[/b] . He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.[b]And the Word was made flesh[/b] , and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” - John 1:1-14“In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth.” - Genesis 1:1
:-)
The real question is not really theological. It is: "Do you [i]know
As I said in another thread, the man born blind, (John 9) wasn't sure who Jesus was either, not at first, (...a good man? Definitely...a prophet? Maybe). But Jesus knew his loyal and honest heart and revealed Himself further.
So He can do to us, as Chris has testified of himself and his family, and as I have testified.
It is not a sin to doubt the concept of the Trinity, but it is a sin not to want a living relationship with the living God, and to seek to know more of His fulness, and understand more of who He really is.
...Excuse the long post - it just grew! :-)
Thank you Chris
In Him
Jeannette
LittleGift wrote:
Shouldn't it be
1 x 1 x 1 = 1? Which makes more sense spiritually as well as mathematically!
Don't mean to split hairs on this issue, but that is why I posted the question as 1+1+1=1 There is no mathmatical or spiritual explanation sufficent enough for our mere human minds that can wrap around this. As humans, we always tend to NEED to understand something before we believe in it. Either way, I am happy with 1+1+1=1 or 1x1x1=1. Either way, I don't fully get it, but believe it becasue it is truth.
This reminds me of another question that always seems to stump people. Please explain eternity as something that can be truly comprehended.
Here is a great explanation of eternity that helps grasp the awesomeness of it. You may have heard it before, but I am going to throw it out here anyways.
Eternity:
There is a bird. And in the talons of that bird is a loin cloth. Once every 1000 years that bird flies over Mt. Everest, dragging the loin cloth over top of the top of that mountain. The bird continues to do this once every 1000 years (dragging the loin cloth over the top of the mountain). This happens only once every 1000 years, and then has to wait another 1000 years before making the same exact flight.
Once this mountain is rubbed all the way down to sea level by this bird dragging this loin cloth over the top of this mountian every 1000 years, [b]this will not even be the first second in eternity.
Indeed!
ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:Since when were we supposed to
[i]understand[/i] the mind and makeup of God?
You are right, thanks for the reminder. Actually it isn't the question as such that offends, but using a question to push an agenda. Especially an agenda that has some definite characteristics of a cult.I have never been offended by a question by people in regard to the concept of a "trinity."
Me neither.When I first came to the Lord, I had no idea if the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit were one and the same. The entire idea seemed quite foreign to me.
At first I had no idea that Jesus had anything to do with the wonderful thing that had happened to me, I only knew that I could now call God, "Father" and that somehow He had come into my life in a totally new way, and I would never be the same again.
Then, less than a week later, someone asked me "Do you love the Lord Jesus?", and instantly such love and worship welled up in my heart, "Oh, YES!!!"
Some time later I was wrestling with the concept of the Holy Spirit. I knew the Bible said that He is a person, and He is God, but couldn't seem to "get it" deep down. So I asked Him to show me, (the first time of probably only twice I have ever prayed [i]to
And He did!
AMEN! I think we came to this truth from opposite ends, Chris :-); you found out by studying the Bible first, I found out by encounter with the Lord ("all" of Him, Father first, Son second, Holy Spirit third)! Then discovered more and more of the Scriptural evidence to confirm what He had already showed me.So I went about reading the Word of God to look for an answer to this issue.It didn't take long before I came to a conclusion that Jesus was both the Son of God and one with God. I know that this can't make much sense to our limited human intellects, but the concept of a "trinity" is certainly presented in the Word of God.
That in itself should cause us to bow down in amazed awe and worship....He became flesh and dwelt among us.
He was PERFECT.
He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him.
He walked as a human being, tempted in every way as we are.
He allowed Himself to be mocked, accused, tortured, and killed by His own earthly creation.
Yes, I can understand anyone struggling with this concept. What I have difficulty with is someone who isn'tMy paternal grandmother was a Jew. She, like many others, had difficulty in understanding the concept of a Messiah that is also “G-d.” To many Jews, the Messiah is supposed to be a[i]human prince[/i] – or a “Moshiach ben David” (Messiah, son of David) which would be anointed as both a King and conqueror. Theoretically, Messiah was supposed to conquer the Earth and restore the Kingdom of Israel. This was the cause for the question by His disciples in Acts chapter 1 (about “restoring the Kingdom of Israel”). Yet, Jesus Christ ([i]Yeshua[/i] Ha’Mashiach) came – not as a prince born in a palace, but one that was born in a manger. Instead of coming with a sword, He came as a sacrifice. Instead of being given a crown of Gold, He was offered a crown of thorns.“
[i]He came unto His own, and His own did not receive Him.[/i] ” (John 1:11)As a Jew, Keith Green struggled with the notion of a Messiah who was both Man and God...
As has been said before, the rules of Greek grammar mean that“In the beginning was the Word,[b]and the Word was with God, and the Word was God[/b] .
John 1:1The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.[b]He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not[/b] . He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.[b]And the Word was made flesh[/b] , and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.” - John 1:1-14“In the beginning, God created the Heavens and the Earth.” - Genesis 1:1
:-)
The real question is not really theological. It is: "Do you [i]know
As I said in another thread, the man born blind, (John 9) wasn't sure who Jesus was either, not at first, (...a good man? Definitely...a prophet? Maybe). But Jesus knew his loyal and honest heart and revealed Himself further.
So He can do to us, as Chris has testified of himself and his family, and as I have testified.
It is not a sin to doubt the concept of the Trinity, but it is a sin not to want a living relationship with the living God, and to seek to know more of His fulness, and understand more of who He really is.
...Excuse the long post - it just grew! :-)
Thank you Chris
In Him
Jeannette
[sorry, double post, I think it was moved and I thjought it had got lost and posted again! :-?]
I guess I dont have a problem with the title of this thread mainly because I like to sometimes use the title to catch everyone's eye.
Krispy
Matt. 26:39; "And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."
Did Jesus pray to Himself when He was on earth?
Mark 13:32; "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
Now if Jesus was the same person as God The Father then why doesn't Christ have this same knowledge?
Hi freecd...
When God came to Earth in the form of a man, He confined Himself to the natural laws of this world. He set aside His omnipotence to become fleshly and mortal. This is why the temptation from Luke chapter 4 is so relevant. This is why He was able to be killed in the first place. He did this so that He could be acquainted (firsthand) with our suffering and sorrows.Matt. 26:39; "And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."Did Jesus pray to Himself when He was on earth?
Mark 13:32; "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."
Now if Jesus was the same person as God The Father then why doesn't Christ have this same knowledge?
Now, the Son of God is no longer confined to such humanity.
:-)
By the way, one might wonder the purpose of this thread. Are you trying to convert opinions?
Let me ask you this: What is your opinion of John 1:1? Is Jesus the Word? Is He God? Did Jesus create the universe? Is Jesus the Creator (Genesis 1:1; John 1:1-5)?
Just something to ponder...
Of course not, He was praying to the Father!
freecd wrote:
Matt. 26:39; "And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."Did Jesus pray to Himself when He was on earth?
The Bible makes it clear that Jesus is not the same Person as the Father! No-one said He was! Jesus is God, the Father is God, the Holy Spirit is God.Mark 13:32; "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father."Now if Jesus was the same person as God The Father then why doesn't Christ have this same knowledge?
Yet there is only one God!
We don't understand it, but we don't need to in order to believe it!
Re His apparent lack of knowledge, the explanation has been posted before. Jesus was referring to Jewish marriage customs of the time. In other words He was using the language of illustration and parable.
A young man would prepare a house, or a room in his father's house, for his bride. But before he could go and get her, the father had to inspect the preparations to decide if all was ready, and give the son permission to go.
So Jesus isn't speaking of any lack of knowledge, but of Himself as the Bridegroom preparing to go and get his bride. Compare other passages in the Gospels (especially John 14), where He uses the same figure. John the Baptist used the same kind of figure too, describing himself as "best man" at a wedding and Jesus as the Bridegroom.
If you have difficulty believing what has been already said, why don't you ask [i]JESUS
John 14:
[color=990000] 1 “Let not your hearts be troubled; believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many rooms; if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? 3 [b]And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
These are the words of the Bridegroom.
But will we be ready when He comes?
in Him
Jeannette
There's a great article by John MacArthur on his website called [url=http://www.gty.org/Resources/Articles/9962]Our Triune God
[b]Our Triune God
By John MacArthur
The Trinity is an unfathomable, and yet unmistakable doctrine in Scripture. As Jonathan Edwards noted, after studying the topic extensively, “I think [the doctrine of the Trinity] to be the highest and deepest of all Divine mysteries” (An Unpublished Treatise on the Trinity).
Yet, though the fullness of the Trinity is far beyond human comprehension, it is unquestionably how God has revealed Himself in Scripture—as one God eternally existing in three Persons.
This is not to suggest, of course, that the Bible presents three different gods (cf. Deut. 6:4). Rather, God is three Persons in one essence; the Divine essence subsists wholly and indivisibly, simultaneously and eternally, in the three members of the one Godhead—the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (We considered the deity of Christ last Thursday, in this post .)
The Scriptures are clear that these three Persons together are one and only one God (Deut. 6:4). John 10:30 and 33 explain that the Father and the Son are one. First Corinthians 3:16 shows that the Father and the Spirit are one. Romans 8:9 makes clear that the Son and the Spirit are one. And John 14:16, 18, and 23 demonstrate that the Father, Son, and Spirit are one.
Yet, in exhibiting the unity between the members of the Trinity, the Word of God in no way denies the simultaneous existence and distinctiveness of each of the three Persons of the Godhead. In other words, the Bible makes it clear that God is one God (not three), but that the one God is a Trinity of Persons.
In the Old Testament, the Bible implies the idea of the Trinity in several ways. The title Elohim (”God”), for instance, is a plural noun which can suggest multiplicity (cf. Gen. 1:26). This corresponds to the fact that the plural pronoun (”us”) is sometimes used of God (Gen. 1:26; Isa. 6:8). More directly, there are places in which God’s name is applied to more than one Person in the same text (Ps. 110:1; cf. Gen. 19:24). And there are also passages where all three divine Persons are seen at work (Is. 48:16; 61:1).
The New Testament builds significantly on these truths, revealing them more explicitly. The baptismal formula of Matthew 28:19 designates all three Persons of the Trinity: “Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit.” In his apostolic benediction to the Corinthians, Paul underscored this same reality. He wrote, “The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God [the Father], and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit, be with you all” (2 Cor. 13:14). Other New Testament passages also spell out the glorious truth of the Triune God (Romans 15:16, 30; 2 Cor. 1:21–22; Eph. 2:18).
In describing the Trinity, the New Testament clearly distinguishes three Persons who are all simultaneously active. They are not merely modes or manifestations of the same person (as Oneness theology incorrectly asserts) who sometimes acts as Father, sometimes as Son, and sometimes as Spirit. At Christ’s baptism, all three Persons were simultaneously active (Matt. 3:16–17), with the Son being baptized, the Spirit descending, and the Father speaking from Heaven. Jesus Himself prayed to the Father (cf. Matt. 6:9), taught that His will was distinct from His Father’s (Matt. 26:39), promised that He would ask the Father to send the Spirit (John 14:6), and asked the Father to glorify Him (John 17:5). These actions would not make sense unless the Father and the Son were two distinct Persons. Elsewhere in the New Testament, the Holy Spirit intercedes before the Father on behalf of believers (Rom. 8:26), as does the Son, who is our Advocate (1 John 2:1). Again, the distinctness of each Person is in view.
The Bible is clear. There is only one God, yet He exists, and always has existed, as a Trinity of Persons—the Father, the Son, and the Spirit (cf. John 1:1, 2). To deny or misunderstand the Trinity is to deny or misunderstand the very nature of God Himself.
This article was adapted from John’s commentary on 1-3 John.
Hi freecd,
Dear brother, I saw the title, and didn't really want to get involved, and didn't really take in that this was your thread.... but the v word has been nagging me, so here I am. I have not time to read every post, but have some answers for your questions, and a comment or two, which I trust you will (despite their brevity), [i]hear
In your leading post, you quoted the verse which says
This is the answer to your first question. Ventriloquism is when a devil speaks through the mouth of theAnd lo a voice[u]from heaven[/u]
Because of this explanation of the word you chose in your title, I hope you will consider finding another way to pose the quesiton. Because, is it not unbecoming of a Christian - indeed if permissible at all - to even fleetingly suggest that Jesus Christ might have been a 'ventriloquist'?
Whatever scorn may be poured by western culture on the explanation of ventriloquism, there are many who will know this is a grim reality for those who cannot escape from their bondage without help from a greater god. We know that demons used to cry out His name (Mark) and declare who He was, long before ordinary men had grasped His true status in the universe.
No. He frequently refers to Himself as having been sent by God, His Father. The separation between them is at its most accute when He is on the cross, and asks why His Father has forsaken Him. We take this to mean that the Father removed all means of communication, rather than that the Father ceased to exist. God became a man and died. (Acts 20:28) We also, are separate from Him physically, through we have been made, all to drink into one Spirit - 1 Cor 6:17, 12:13.Did Jesus pray to Himself when He was on earth?
I believe there are answers in scripture, showing that as a man He also came to know God as His Father through the Spirit (as we do) and therefore had an increasing knowledge of God's mind within Himself, but also, that in leaving the glory with which He had been glorified before He came to earth, (John 17), being contracted to a man (as Wesley puts it), He chose to accept human limitations. Then after He has arrived at the Father's right hand again, He was given (to receive): power and riches andNow if Jesus was the same person as God The Father then why doesn't Christ have this same knowledge?
Psalm 22
1 My God, My God, why have You forsaken Me?
[i]Why are You so[i]And from
2 O My God, I cry in the daytime, but You do not hear;
And in the night season, and am not silent.
3 But You [i]are
Enthroned in the praises of Israel.
4 Our fathers trusted in You;
They trusted, and You delivered them.
5 They cried to You, and were delivered;
They trusted in You, and were not ashamed.
6 But I [i]am
A reproach of men, and despised by the people.
7 All those who see Me ridicule Me;
They shoot out the lip, they shake the head, [i]saying,
8 "He trusted in the LORD, let Him rescue Him;
Let Him deliver Him, since He delights in Him!"
9 [b]But You [i]are[b]He who took Me out of the womb;
You made Me trust [i]while[b] on My mother's breasts.
10 I was cast upon You from birth.
From My mother's womb You [i]have been[b]My God.
11 Be not far from Me, For trouble [i]is
For [i]there is
Wow, I can't believe this thread hasn't been locked! I have seen much better threads locked than this! :-( How sad!!!!!!!
dear bekka, why do you want this thread locked? the way i look at it is anytime we get a chance to lift up and exult jesus in a thread like this, why not?Wow, I can't believe this thread hasn't been locked! I have seen much better threads locked than this! How sad!!!!!!!
i guess that's just how i see it. ;-)
phil
dear bekka, why do you want this thread locked? the way i look at it is anytime we get a chance to lift up and exult jesus in a thread like this, why not?
LoveHim wrote:Wow, I can't believe this thread hasn't been locked! I have seen much better threads locked than this! How sad!!!!!!!
i guess that's just how i see it. ;-)
phil
Because the title is blasphemy.
-Rebecca
dear bekka, why do you want this thread locked? the way i look at it is anytime we get a chance to lift up and exult jesus in a thread like this, why not?
Bekka wrote:
LoveHim wrote:Wow, I can't believe this thread hasn't been locked! I have seen much better threads locked than this! How sad!!!!!!!
i guess that's just how i see it. ;-)
phil
Because the title is blasphemy.
-Rebecca
The whole thing is blasphemy!
-Rebecca
Man is also triune or tri-partate, that is body, soul, and spirit, but are we not one. God chose to be these three representatives of the God Head to deal with His creation made in His image.
He deals with man, first as a Father, second as an exchanged life by the Christ in us, third by by the soul life directed by the Holy Spirit.
Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, to deal with man, spirit, soul, and body. God does not deal with man except in the spirit of a man which is in the believer The Spirit of Christ in the new birth. The Holy Spirit deals with man in the soul-mind of a man, The Holy Spirit not just being with us but in us forever. The Holy Spirit-Parakleet-Comforter is the teacher of our soul. The Body is also the responsibility of God the Father and Jesus Christ, in that it will be just like Jesus Christ when our resurrection power comes on resurrection morning and we will be changed in the twinkling of an eye and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
So we are saved, being saved, will be saved.
Spirit, Soul and Body.
2Cr 1:10 Who delivered us from so great a death, and doth deliver: in whom we trust that he will yet deliver [us];
"delivered", the Spirit of Christ born again in us, now our spirit.
"doth deliver", The Holy Spirit renewing our mind to the mind of Christ, in our soul-mind.
"yet deliver", The resurrection power of God the Father in body.
The triune God is not so hard to understand, when you see we are three part man but one.
Just like God, three part God workings, but One God.
That is why we must believe Hbr 4:12 For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
That is soul, spirit and body. The tri-cod Amy, that is three part man, not 2 part man.
In Christ: Phillip
Reply
Not only The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost, but also the saints, and of the household of God are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone in whom all the building fitly framed together grows unto an holy temple in the Lord in whom we also are built together for an habitation of God through the Spirit and when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
But the carnal minded cannot understand spiritual things.
Eddie
Because the title is blasphemy.
While I wouldn't exactly say blasphemous, I would say careless - and certainly [i]prayer
This can always be remedied if we'd just hesitate for a moment and [i]pray
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