Brothers and Sisters,
You are about to be encouraged greatly! This message is a must hear from Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, Washington.
The link is: http://www.marshillchurch.org/sermonseries/religionsaves/week_05.aspx
anyone hear/watch this?
Very good message. I am not familiar with Mark Driscoll, but I will say this was very straight forward and Biblically sound. He does not pull any punches. This type of straight forward honesty is needed today. I hope those in need find this message.
Thanks for the post brother.
Could you offer up any info on Driscoll?
brother tj servant,
From what I know he is the pastor at Mars Hill Church in Seattle, WA. I guess they call him "emergent" as opposed to "emerging" he is Calvinistic in doctrine and quite sound from what I know.
From what I know he is the pastor at Mars Hill Church in Seattle, WA. I guess they call him "emergent" as opposed to "emerging" he is Calvinistic in doctrine and quite sound from what I know.
I have been grieved much trying to watch some of his materials. This is not the sort of Christianity that Christ died for brethren.
Driscoll claims to be away from the emergent church scene but in reality he is just as emerging church as rob bell and others.
I’m glad you posted Greg...I agree.
After watching the first video last night, I decided to watch more of him today. I could not finish a sermon…if that is what you call it. I also was troubled by his extreme casualness when talking about some of the most serious matters and concerns mentioned in the Bible.
He seems to be very into being relevant to the culture.
He looks like the culture.
He acts like the culture.
He sounds like the culture.
Maybe I take the, “Be ye separate” to far.
You know the saying, “If it looks like a duck…”
This is one of the great things about this website. Being able to warn and give others a heads up in situations just like this one is what we do.
His original message contains a lot of Biblical truth, but he is rather loose and somewhat worldly with his use of terms, expressions, secular media….
I know his crowd is comprised of hardened inner city youth, but I personally think this “style” is not a necessity.
This emergent scene is a great burden to me.
Just some thoughts…
From Wickipedia, I found the following about Pastor Mark Driscol---these are his own remarks:
Controversial remarks
Driscoll caused controversy following revelations that mega-church pastor Ted Haggard used the services of a gay prostitute by remarking on his blog that many pastors fall into sexual sin because their wives let themselves go.[7] In his post, Driscoll wrote, "Most pastors I know do not have satisfying, free, sexual conversations and liberties with their wives. At the risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am, I will lean over the plate and take one for the team on this. It is not uncommon to meet pastors' wives who really let themselves go; they sometimes feel that because their husband is a pastor, he is therefore trapped into fidelity, which gives them cause for laziness. A wife who lets herself go and is not sexually available to her husband in the ways that the Song of Songs is so frank about is not responsible for her husband's sin, but she may not be helping him either." He later posted an apology and explanation after widespread protests. [8]
Driscoll has also been quoted as implying that non-Christian cultures practice cannibalism, and that cannibalism was stopped only by the spread of Christianity. "After church tonight you will go home and you will eat chicken, not human, because of the spread of Christianity," Driscoll said. "… go to a country where there hasn't been the spread of Christianity and they're having human for dinner."[9]
There is a strong drift toward the hard theological left. Some emergent types [want] to recast Jesus as a limp-wrist hippie in a dress with a lot of product in His hair, who drank decaf and made pithy Zen statements about life while shopping for the perfect pair of shoes. In Revelation, Jesus is a pride fighter with a tattoo down His leg, a sword in His hand and the commitment to make someone bleed. That is a guy I can worship. I cannot worship the hippie, diaper, halo Christ because I cannot worship a guy I can beat up. I fear some are becoming more cultural than Christian, and without a big Jesus who has authority and hates sin as revealed in the Bible, we will have less and less Christians, and more and more confused, spiritually self-righteous blogger critics of Christianity.
— Mark Driscoll, Relevant Magazine
[edit] Emergent Church movement
Mark Driscoll describes his association with, and eventual distancing from the Emergent Church movement:[10]
In the mid-1990s I was part of what is now known as the Emerging Church and spent some time traveling the country to speak on the emerging church in the emerging culture on a team put together by Leadership Network called the Young Leader Network. But, I eventually had to distance myself from the Emergent stream of the network because friends like Brian McLaren and Doug Pagitt began pushing a theological agenda that greatly troubled me. Examples include referring to God as a chick, questioning God's sovereignty over and knowledge of the future, denial of the substitutionary atonement at the cross, a low view of Scripture, and denial of hell which is one hell of a mistake.
Driscoll, along with Leif Moi, Mike Gun, and the Acts 29 community, is part of the missional theology community that adheres closely to classical Calvinist, or Reformed, theology and views their mission as communicating this school of theology to modern people. This contrasts with the Emergent Church movement, influenced by individuals like Brian McLaren, Doug Pagitt, and Rob Bell, which is more willing to re-examine and re-interpret traditional beliefs.
On Friday September 21st, 2007 whilst speaking at the Convergent Conference of the Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, Driscoll publicly warned the attendees about the teachings of Brian McLaren, Doug Pagitt and Rob Bell. Expressing concern for the views of his contemporaries, Driscoll cited many of their spoken and published views on the atonement, homosexuality, rabbinical authority, new age influences, mystic theology and their mutual affirmation/endorsement of books such as Ken Wilber's A Brief History of Everything. [11]
[edit] Quotations
It is imperative that Christians be like Jesus, by living freely within the culture as missionaries who are as faithful to the Father and His gospel as Jesus was in His own time and place. [12]
You have been told that God is a loving, gracious, merciful, kind, compassionate, wonderful, and good sky fairy who runs a day care in the sky and has a bucket of suckers for everyone because we're all good people. That is a lie... God looks down and says 'I hate you, you are my enemy, and I will crush you,' and we say that is deserved, right and just, and then God says 'Because of Jesus I will love you and forgive you.' This is a miracle. [13]
I study the Bible all week, pray to the Lord, and then I speak from my heart. It's all about brutal honesty. [14]
A pacifist has a lot of difficulty reconciling pacifism with scripture. [15]
..the truths of Christianity are constant, unchanging, and meant for all people, times, and places. But the methods by which truth is articulated and practiced must be culturally appropriated, and therefore constantly translated ()...if doctrine is constant and practice is constantly changing, the result is living orthodoxy. [16]
From my experience in overcoming sexual sins is simply trusting in the LORD that He is going to work out all things for my good.
Sin confess, sin confess becomes repetitious, but as you quickly repent each time and don't condemn yourself, it begins to wane. It takes time and don't be anxious for the change, just expect it over time.
This scripture verse really means more than what we think it means.
Lean on the grace of God with all that is in you, because the law won't help. Been there done that.2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.
Compliments, thanks for your post. That's exactly the message most probably don't want to hear.
"You mean there's no insta-cure?" Not that I know of. Get off your computer, away from the TV, go outside. Seek to hang out with the same sex unless you're married. Be busy doing good. Apply always for more grace to be obedient. Confess to God immediately if and when you sin. If you burn, consider marriage. If you're married, do not defraud one another except to pray and fast for a season.
God, please help all of us to be pure.
2 Cor 6:1
Rom 6:11
I had no idea about these things brothers and sisters. I am sorry for posting this.
sex is a big subject and there is nothing to be ashamed of in talking about it. Heb. 13:14 marriage is honorable in all and the bed undefiled, but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge. Little children don't understand till certain age and could be tempted to copy parents. So we must be careful with them. But I wanted to make this statement for some time-- The christians today need more teaching about biblical ethics. it shows up when many sites on internet promote christian dating. the warning on the label is-- Matt. 5:28 my quote-- if you lust for her in your heart only ,you have still commited the act. Prov. 4:23 keep thy heart with all diligence for out of it are the issues of life. add( claim the promises and God will send the right woman or man in his timing.)
Watch out, I'm going to defend Mark Driscoll again!
He looks like the culture.
He acts like the culture.
He sounds like the culture.
1 Cor 9:22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some.
If I had heard the same quote about looking like the culture and acting like the culture said in the context of missions, I would have said that the person was going to be very effective as a missionary.
You should all be ashamed of the way that you cut down this brother in Christ, so what if he's very frank in his language, he's mostly preaching to people who haven't grown up with flowery Christian language but have grown up in the most unchurched city in America, Seattle, where I live.
I'm personally very thankful for Mark Driscoll, even though I do not attend his church I am excited about the many non-christians that attend his church and have the opportunity to hear the gospel. Mars Hill church has been a blessing in the life of many people I know.
I believe that Mark Driscoll is the closest living thing to the ministry of CH Spurgeon. When I read Spurgeon I hear Mark Driscoll, and when I see Driscoll I hear Spurgeon... of course there is 100 years dividing both of them, so I have to account for some change in language.
You know, frankly, right now, I am ashamed to be affiliated with this forum. We talk about revival all day long, and supposedly long for it... but when there is a church actually saving people from damnation we are hyper critical of the way that the preacher dresses... we wouldn't know what to do with revival if we had it.
If the Welsh revival happened again today, we would decry it as unbiblical, as satanic, as worldly. The people from this forum would be the first to point out any scriptural grey areas, and assure people they are black!
Krispy, all of you, you do not know what spirit you are of, repent!
I hope this does not cause you to judge me, but I do not see it as you do. I do not have a problem with his “frankness”, we could do with more frankness and honesty in the pulpit, but I do have great concern for his, “extreme casualness when talking about some of the most serious matters and concerns mentioned in the Bible.” As said earlier I watched many of his videos and listened to several audios as well. His original message contains a lot of Biblical truth, but he is rather loose and somewhat worldly with his use of terms, expressions, secular media….
I know his crowd is comprised of hardened inner city youth, but I personally think this “style” is not a necessity.
I prayed before I posted previously and I have prayed before posting this one.
Grace and peace
PHARISEE!
Matt 11:19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners." ' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."
You would have accused Jesus of being 'too casual' just as the other Pharisees did. Repent.
PHARISEE!
Ian, this is unnecessary. People here are entitled to their own opinions of Driscoll's ministry without your name-calling and scathing rebukes.
You would have accused Jesus of being 'too casual' just as the other Pharisees did. Repent.
Don't judge this brother's intentions. You don't know his heart, and he hasn't given you any reason label him as a Christ-rejecting pharisee. What you are alluding to is horrible in its inception, and you are not posting in charity or understanding. Do reconsider your words, tenor, and attitude here. Brother, this is no place for confrontations.
Peace be with you.
No Paul, I am fed up with the overt hypocrisies on this forum -so much holier than thou, too many hyper critics. When I see sin I'll say it. This is sin. This is the same attitude as the Pharisees... spend all day reading religious books, and then crucifying the savior.
You would have accused Jesus of being 'too casual'
Speaking of Driscol I said:
I do have great concern for his, “extreme casualness when talking about...
Talking. Speaking of word usage...not appearance. Jesus was not casual with words.
I have not condemned Driscol. I have not denied the fact that God has used him. I have only stated that I do not care for, nor do I endorse, his style.
Grace and peace
When I see sin I'll say it. This is sin.
Is it a sin to have a critical opinion of Mr. Driscoll's ministry? Is it a sin that some brethren here might be offended and stumbled by his approach? I think if you took the time to PM brother TJ you would see that he is a genuine, loving brother, quite sensitive to the Spirit of the Lord and soundness of doctrine. It hurts me to see these types of exchanges here.
This is the same attitude as the Pharisees... spend all day reading religious books, and then crucifying the savior.
And you are blasting your brother without real cause, and this behavior is just as grevious in these forums as the "sins" you would call down fire from heaven on.
Paul,
When I try to use reason and scripture to confront others of their narrowness towards other Christian brothers they never budge.
As long as Mark Driscol doesn't fall into any grievous sin he'll probably be remembered as the Spurgeon of this generation, but until he's dead we're going to rip him apart about his style and his speech.
As soon as he's in the grave, everyone is going to agree about the positive contributions he's made to the Christian church in America.
The impact that Mars Hill has had here in Seattle is nothing but positive, and the church, by preaching Jesus, is winning people and changing lives. So what if Mark Driscol wears jeans... well guess what, Spurgeon stirred up controvercy by refusing to wear clerical robes, he dressed in a suit... well a suit was every day business attire in his generation.
Listen to Mark's messages, he's casual in his preaching, but at least he's alive, and he loves Jesus, and he preaches the Gospel, he preaches a very conservative reformed doctrine.
If I try to express this with reason, no one turns a head, they just keep on condemning. I'm tired of it, I'm going to try John the Baptist style - REPENT!
Please be patient with my entry here. If any moderator sees fit to delete it, I understand completely. For those reading, please use discretion.
Ian Smith wrote,
The impact that Mars Hill has had here in Seattle is nothing but positive
Ian, I also long for men like Spurgeon, Alleine, and Baxter to stand up with the message of the gospel. I commend any man for his courage to speak plainly of Christ, yet I cannot excuse needless flippancy. The prophets who were coarse did so by the inspiration of God, and with broken hearts. Jeremiah called the nation a whore, it is true, yet "his eyes were like fountains" as he gave the message God required of him.
It is not positive to display looseness of lips. It is child-like, avoidable, and especially unfit for pastors. The Spirit through Paul exhorts us to put away filthy speech, coarse jesting, and corrupt communications. In fact, it requires that these things not be found amongst us even once. (Eph 5)
It is one things to speak and be understood, and another to speak in garish ways designed to titillate and offend good sensibilities.
Paul became all a-moral things unto all people. He did not become im-moral for anyone.
In order to make myself clear, I have included a bit of commentary and a quote from one of Driscoll's latest books. Driscoll was not speaking off the cuff here - he edited and chose to publish what is represented. Decide for yourselves if this is appropriate.
----------Taken from another blog------------
Despite the many great quotes, there were a couple which I felt showed lack of discernment in theology, and equally troubling, several that which I felt were in poor taste, displaying the vulgarity for which Driscoll has formed something of a reputation. There are a few that are similar to this, using a pejorative term where a more tasteful one would have been, in my opinion, more appropriate: “Every one of them was older than me, a chronic masturbator, a porn addict, and banging weak-willed girls like a screen door in a stiff breeze…” (128). I also found this one quite disturbing:
"This was drilled home for me one night when the church phone in our house rang at some godforsaken hour when I’m not even a Christian, like 3:00 a.m. I answered it in a stupor, and on the other end was some college guy who was crying. I asked him what was wrong, and he said it was an emergency and he really need to talk to me. Trying to muster up my inner pastor, I sat down and tried to pretend I was concerned. I asked him what was wrong, and he rambled for a while about nothing, which usually means that a guy has sinned and is wasting time with dumb chitchat because he’s ashamed to just get to the point and confess. So I interrupted him blurting out, “It’s three a.m., so stop jerking me around. What you have done?”
“I masturbated,” he said.
“That’s it?” I said.
“Yes,” he replied. “Tonight I watched a porno and I masturbated.”
“Is the porno over?” I asked.
“Yes,” he said.
“Was it a good porno?” I asked.
He did not reply.
“Well, you’ve already watched the whole porno and tugged your tool, so what am I supposed to do?” I asked.
“I don’t know,” he said. “You are my pastor, so I thought that maybe you could pray for me.”
To be honest, I did not want to pray, so I just said the first thing that came to mind. “Jesus, thank you for not killing him for being a pervert. Amen,” I prayed.
“Alright, well you should sleep good now, so go to bed and don’t call me again tonight because I’m sleeping and you are making me angry,” I said.
“Well, what am I supposed to do now?” he asked.
“You need to stop watching porno and crying like a baby afterward and grow up, man. I don’t have time to be your accountability partner, so you need to be a man and nut up and take care of this yourself. A naked lady is good to look at, so get a job, get a wife, ask her to get naked, and look at her instead. Alright?” I said.
I cannot understand why he feels this type of quote is necessary. While this book is filled with confession, the one thing Driscoll does not seem to regret is his reputation as a loose canon and a man whose mouth is often filthy. I wonder if this will be the subject of another of his biblical studies. I hope it will be, for whatever he may feel he gains through this crudeness, it simply cannot be God-honoring. Scripture affirms many times that what comes out of the mouth is a sure indication of what is in the heart. Thus we have good reason to examine what we say and how we say it, for words are merely symptoms of what lies inside."
------------End of quote------------
theopenlife wrote:
Compliments, thanks for your post. That's exactly the message most probably don't want to hear."You mean there's no insta-cure?" Not that I know of. Get off your computer, away from the TV, go outside. Seek to hang out with the same sex unless you're married. Be busy doing good. Apply always for more grace to be obedient. Confess to God immediately if and when you sin. If you burn, consider marriage. If you're married, do not defraud one another except to pray and fast for a season.
God, please help all of us to be pure.
2 Cor 6:1
Rom 6:11
Well said...their is no insta-quick cure. Macarthur once said, if you find you are being tempted, do something, you don't have to cast it out...go and count paper clips!! Basically don't make it complicated, but go and do something!!!
1 Cor 9:22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some.If I had heard the same quote about looking like the culture and acting like the culture said in the context of missions, I would have said that the person was going to be very effective as a missionary.
[b]A.W.Tozer:
“The fish that goes along with the current hasn’t any trouble with the current, but as soon as he starts the other way the current gets sore at him. Just as long as you go the way the wind blows, everybody will say you’re very fine and commend you for being deeply religious. If you decide to go God’s way instead of the way the wind blows they’ll say that your roof leaks or that something has happened to you that you’re a fanatic. You can go along with the times or you can be like Zechariah and Elizabeth and refuse to go along with the times. Personally I’ve decided that a long time ago. They say that if you don’t conform to the times and find a common ground for getting along with everybody that nobody will listen to you. The more I’m nonconformist the more people want to hear me.”
(Tozer on Worship and Entertainment, Selected Excerpts, p. 136)
“I’ve been told that I’ve missed the boat but I reply that I wasn’t trying to catch that boat. That boat and a lot of others like it can go on without me and I’ll be quite happy. We can conform to the religion of our times if we want to.
I weigh 145 pounds dripping wet, but I stand here to tell you that I’m a nonconformist, twice born, and a rebel and I will not conform to the times. Up to now I’ve been able to get a hearing and refused to conform to the times. But if a day ever comes when to conform to the times is the price you have to pay to be heard, then I’ll go out and start where I started before on the street corner and preach there. But I won’t conform to the times.
They say you are supposed to do it. They say, ‘Don’t you know we have the same message but it’s just different times we’re living in.’ I know the voice of the serpent when I hear it. The hiss of the serpent is in that and I recognize that. So we can either conform or we can withdraw from the whole business, and Paul says, ‘From such turn away.’”
(Tozer on Worship and Entertainment, Selected Excerpts, p. 136-137)
theopenlife wrote:
Please be patient with my entry here. If any moderator sees fit to delete it, I understand completely. For those reading, please use discretion.Ian Smith wrote,
The impact that Mars Hill has had here in Seattle is nothing but positive
Ian, I also long for men like Spurgeon, Alleine, and Baxter to stand up with the message of the gospel. I commend any man for his courage to speak plainly of Christ, yet I cannot excuse needless flippancy. The prophets who were coarse did so by the inspiration of God, and with broken hearts. Jeremiah called the nation a whore, it is true, yet "his eyes were like fountains" as he gave the message God required of him.
It is not positive to display looseness of lips. It is child-like, avoidable, and especially unfit for pastors. The Spirit through Paul exhorts us to put away filthy speech, coarse jesting, and corrupt communications. In fact, it requires that these things not be found amongst us even once. (Eph 5)
It is one things to speak and be understood, and another to speak in garish ways designed to titillate and offend good sensibilities.
Paul became all a-moral things unto all people. He did not become im-moral for anyone.
In order to make myself clear, I have included a bit of commentary and a quote from one of Driscoll's latest books. Driscoll was not speaking off the cuff here - he edited and chose to publish what is represented. Decide for yourselves if this is appropriate.
----------Taken from another blog------------
Despite the many great quotes, there were a couple which I felt showed lack of discernment in theology, and equally troubling, several that which I felt were in poor taste, displaying the vulgarity for which Driscoll has formed something of a reputation. There are a few that are similar to this, using a pejorative term where a more tasteful one would have been, in my opinion, more appropriate: “Every one of them was older than me, a chronic masturbator, a porn addict, and banging weak-willed girls like a screen door in a stiff breeze…” (128). I also found this one quite disturbing:
"This was drilled home for me one night when the church phone in our house rang at some godforsaken hour when I’m not even a Christian, like 3:00 a.m. I answered it in a stupor, and on the other end was some college guy who was crying. I asked him what was wrong, and he said it was an emergency and he really need to talk to me. Trying to muster up my inner pastor, I sat down and tried to pretend I was concerned. I asked him what was wrong, and he rambled for a while about nothing, which usually means that a guy has sinned and is wasting time with dumb chitchat because he’s ashamed to just get to the point and confess. So I interrupted him blurting out, “It’s three a.m., so stop jerking me around. What you have done?”
“I masturbated,” he said.
“That’s it?” I said.
“Yes,” he replied. “Tonight I watched a porno and I masturbated.”
“Is the porno over?” I asked.
“Yes,” he said.
“Was it a good porno?” I asked.
He did not reply.
“Well, you’ve already watched the whole porno and tugged your tool, so what am I supposed to do?” I asked.
“I don’t know,” he said. “You are my pastor, so I thought that maybe you could pray for me.”
To be honest, I did not want to pray, so I just said the first thing that came to mind. “Jesus, thank you for not killing him for being a pervert. Amen,” I prayed.
“Alright, well you should sleep good now, so go to bed and don’t call me again tonight because I’m sleeping and you are making me angry,” I said.
“Well, what am I supposed to do now?” he asked.
“You need to stop watching porno and crying like a baby afterward and grow up, man. I don’t have time to be your accountability partner, so you need to be a man and nut up and take care of this yourself. A naked lady is good to look at, so get a job, get a wife, ask her to get naked, and look at her instead. Alright?” I said.
I cannot understand why he feels this type of quote is necessary. While this book is filled with confession, the one thing Driscoll does not seem to regret is his reputation as a loose canon and a man whose mouth is often filthy. I wonder if this will be the subject of another of his biblical studies. I hope it will be, for whatever he may feel he gains through this crudeness, it simply cannot be God-honoring. Scripture affirms many times that what comes out of the mouth is a sure indication of what is in the heart. Thus we have good reason to examine what we say and how we say it, for words are merely symptoms of what lies inside."
------------End of quote------------
[b]WOW!!
repentcanada wrote:
Brothers and Sisters,You are about to be encouraged greatly! This message is a must hear from Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, Washington.
The link is: http://www.marshillchurch.org/sermonseries/religionsaves/week_05.aspx
I believe that someone should have started a new thread on Driscoll so they could post all the negative they believe about him instead of on this thread because now people who need to hear this will read all this stuff instead of watching this much needed sermon. From what I've read in the past from the men on sermonindex, a LOT seem to have lust problems... this sermon video will help!!!! This sermon has one of THE best explanations of what paganism is that I have ever heard.
Compliments wrote about trusting Jesus and that is exactly what Driscoll has said if anyone had taken the time watch from beginning to end. How many that has posted a comment on "this" thread negative or other wise has actually watched this sermon?
brodav9 wrote: The christians today need more teaching about biblical ethics. This video is excellent to bring this about if others on here would let people watch it without dogging the preacher.
Here is some excerpts from the sermon:
-All sex outside of hetersexual marriage is sin.
-The real issue is: Who or What is your God?
-I cannot stress how important this issue is: Strip clubs are not strip clubs but pagan temples. Dirty websites are not dirty websites, they are digital pagan temples.
-It's participating in that which is not just wrong but at it's heart idolatrous.
-(On Romans 1.24) God made your bodies honorable but some of the things you do in it are dishonorable.
-Paul is saying here's the truth and here's the lie: The Truth - there's one God, He made us. We live to worship Him and enjoy His creation. The lie is that we are god and we worship the things that God made instead of the Maker. -There's an inversion in paganism and idolatry.
-It's not just a sexual issue, it's a worship issue.
-And that inversion ruins, destroys, undermines everthing that God intended, everything that God intended.
I do not believe that there was anything that he misrepresented Biblically. I sent this link to everyone in my address book, married or not. I am reminded by something my pastor said years ago, "It's a narrow way, not a narrowminded way."
Love in Christ,
How many that has posted a comment on "this" thread negative or other wise has actually watched this sermon?
I did.
I watched every second of it.
And after deciding to re-evaluate my thoughts and commits on this thread I have watched others as well. I have read interviews and other various samplings of his work.
No one has done anything wrong on this thread. I asked some questions about Driscol…I got answers. I then went to investigate for myself the reasoning behind the replies.
I have never condemned Mark Driscol. I too sent (favorable) emails about this message. I then investigated Mr. Driscol and sent additional emails telling what I had discovered.
I have never said God has not used Driscol. I have not read any post that tells anyone not to watch this video if they want.
I simply brought forth to the SI community my concerns for his “style”.
Have I done something wrong?
To you, Mark Driscol, and everyone else…please forgive me if it was wrong of me to voice my concerns.
Grace and peace
tjservant wrote:How many that has posted a comment on "this" thread negative or other wise has actually watched this sermon?
I did.
I watched every second of it.
And after deciding to re-evaluate my thoughts and commits on this thread I have watched others as well. I have read interviews and other various samplings of his work.
No one has done anything wrong on this thread. I asked some questions about Driscol…I got answers. I then went to investigate for myself the reasoning behind the replies.
I have never condemned Mark Driscol. I too sent (favorable) emails about this message. I then investigated Mr. Driscol and sent additional emails telling what I had discovered.
I have never said God has not used Driscol. I have not read any post that tells anyone not to watch this video if they want.
I simply brought forth to the SI community my concerns for his “style”.
Have I done something wrong?
To you, Mark Driscol, and everyone else…please forgive me if it was wrong of me to voice my concerns.
Grace and peace
NO!! I can bet you money that others have brought up someone else that they don't agree with either or concerned about their style! We [b]ALL
Eph 5:3 "But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as [b]proper[b]no
Eph.5:11 "Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even [b]expose
We are to contend for the faith and expose teachings and behavior's that are not becoming of Christ. I would rather be over examine someone than just take what they say as doctrine. I have made some bad assessments and have learned and grown from them.
Brother, you didn't offend me.
One of the stories that Leonard Ravenhill used to tell was about John Owen going and listening to the sermons of John Bunyan.
There was no one more eloquent in all of England than John Owen in his generation, and although we consider John Bunyan's speech as poetic now, he was considered vulgar in his generation. John Owen listened to Bunyan's sermons for the man's passion, for the man's message, not for the cut of his words.
When Moody preached in Britain thousands thronged to hear an uneducated shoe salesman preach the Gospel, but Moody was a Virgil compared with Sam P Jones, the Methodist from Georgia of whom Moody once wrote:
"God has put into your hands the sledge hammer with which to shatter the formalism of the Church and batter down the strongholds of sin, and He is helping you mightily to use it. God bless you."
Vulgar speech is often employed by great men of God to break down formalism and rigid religious types.
Honestly, the reason I appreciate Mark Driscol is because he is willing to say what everyone is thinking. It is so hypocritical, I have heard so many Christian men complain about the lack of honest preaching, and when they hear someone who is honest, in-your-face honest, they recoil. It's one thing to talk about hearing an annointed preacher, but when it hurts our ears we don't want to hear it any more.
We need more Bunyans, Moodys, Jones, Driscols... the church sorely needs men who will preach against sin, who will not hold back the artilary barrage.
It's funny, Mark Driscol speaks vulgar, but he speaks the Gospel, he preaches a complete Gospel in almost every one of the messages I've heard him speak, more than any other modern preacher I've ever heard... and even though he is offensive he fills the room every week, he fills 20 rooms every week. We need more honest preaching against sin, more honest preaching of the Gospel, we need more men like Mark Driscol.
Pardon me but in my humble opinion the behavior we need to be judging in preachers is lying and the works of the flesh. Is it possible that by adding "style of language" to the mix that we are indeed "adding" to Scripture????
Steve Camp has posted an article about Mark Driscoll's speech and style i reference to a book he wrote and a critique by Tim Challies. Its a good read.
Pardon me but in my humble opinion the behavior we need to be judging in preachers is lying and the works of the flesh. Is it possible that by adding "style of language" to the mix that we are indeed "adding" to Scripture????
Language is only one aspect of his style. Not sure where you got that quote. I would also not call voicing concern…judgment.
I leave this tread with this story told by Josh Harris about what John Piper said to Mark Driscoll. It says it all.
Josh Harris reports:
"Moment I Was Most Glad Not to Be Mark Driscoll: When John Piper gave warm pastoral adjustment and correction to him while he wasn’t there. I thought Driscoll carried himself really well at the conference. God is doing so much through this man. This weekend Mars Hill celebrates it's ten-year anniversary. Praise God! I love his courage, his passion for God’s Word and church, and his zeal to reach a lost world with the Gospel. And I sure would not have wanted to be the lone representative of the “younger generation” in the midst of the Giants of the Faith assembled at this conference.
But the moment I was most happy not to be Mark Driscoll came after his session, when he had already left for the airport and John Piper commented on his message. Piper began by explaining how he thinks about who he hangs out with, and how he decides who to invite to speak. “I have a litmus paper and it's called theology,” he said. He referenced a point Driscoll had made in his talk about the importance of holding certain unchanging truths in our left hand that are the non-negotiables of the faith while being willing to contextualize and differ on secondary issues and stylistically (these are “right hand” issues). Driscoll had listed nine issues we need to contend for, including the authority of God’s Word, the sovereignty of God, penal substitutionary atonement, the exclusivity of Christ, and gender roles to name a few. So Piper said, “If he [Driscoll] has those nine things in his left hand, I’m not even going to look at his right hand.” The audience clapped loudly for this.
Then Piper went on to share that he does have some differences with Driscoll on some so-called “right hand” issues of style that he feels free to share with Driscoll. Then he went on to share a specific one, noting that Driscoll would get to see this on video. (This was the moment when I was glad I wasn’t Mark!) As if he were speaking to Mark he said (and I paraphrase): A pastor cannot be clever and show Christ as glorious. Mark Driscoll, you’re clever. You have an amazing ability to turn a phrase and make statements that draw people back week after week. But it’s dangerous. So many pastors will see you and try to imitate you and then try to watch all the movies and TV shows so they can try to be like you. In essence, Piper was bringing correction to certain aspects of Driscoll’s style and delivery, while stating that they agreed on the most important issues of doctrine.
Driscoll has thick skin and will take this like a man. I can only imagine that Piper’s words will sting a little. But the wounds of a friend are worth the sting. And that’s definitely the spirit in which Piper delivered them.
I felt in his statement not just a correction for Driscoll, but for me and every other young preacher learning to proclaim the good news of the glorious Savior. Thank God we get to learn from guys like Piper. Thank God they’re talking to us. I’d rather be berated by John Piper than cooed over by someone else.
We young guns have a lot to learn. We can’t be satisfied with being clever. We have to learn to show Christ as glorious. I see Driscoll doing this more and more, and I know that by God’s grace he will only improve in the days ahead. I’m glad that our generation has older heroes in the faith like John Piper who are willing to not only give us a chance to minister alongside them, but also provide the leadership to help us see what needs to improve."
Grace and peace
We young guns have a lot to learn
Well, there's a revelation.
MC
Compton wrote:We young guns have a lot to learn
Well, there's a revelation.
MC
I don't feel so young anymore!! :-P Starting to get gray...but not from wisdom!!! :-P
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