warriorofgod wrote:
I am greatly distressed. I need some help from you all. I do not see any direct reference to satan found in Isaiah 14 nor in Ezekiel 28. I find that if I read it without the presupposition that it is supposedly satan, it makes no connection to him. Help me please.
I need resources too. I know about the mention of cherub, but this is not any different when you call Pharaoh the great dragon in Ezekiel 29:3. I realize the the "being in eden" portion but that doesn't prove anything either since eden was symbolic of wealth and pleasure. I need a reason to be believe that this was talking about satan because for a long time i was lead to believe that it did. Please help. :-?
Hi there
I've come late to this thread, so thought it was best to begin commenting at the beginning, with your original question.
The Bible often has this kind of "dualism". Jesus described Judas Iscariot as "a devil", even before Satan entered him to do the work of betrayal.
In the case of the two Old Testament passages you mention, they do speak in the first instance of a man, the king of Babylon and the Prince of Tyre.
The Lord reveals the nature of a man, a human king, in Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28. But as you read on it begins to be plain that it is also describing characteristics that are beyond that of a man, or that they speak of a man [i][b]as representing[/b][/i] the Enemy.
[**Edit, add] Or the Antichrist, in whom Satan is to dwell, who is again a man, but representing Satan.**
Often too, (I think it was Eddie who said it - ***[Edit] no, Lowly and Mike)***, there are hidden references to the Lord Jesus in the Old Testament. He mentioned Psalm 22. Isaiah 53 is another one, of course, and very many not so obvious. Seek them out, don't get bogged down with studying the nature of Satan as represented by a man, or worry too much about the interpretation of these passages. Look for the Lord Jesus in the Old Testament instead, ask the Lord to reveal Himself as you read. You will be amazed!
I remember being absolutely [i]thrilled[/i] the first time, as a new Christian, I came across a hidden reference to Jesus, [i]all by myself![/i] :-D in Proverbs 8.
[color=000000]22 “The LORD begot me,[/color] [the original word "begot" means a lot of things, aquired, possessed, gained etc, and can't easily be translated into English] [color=000000] the first-born of his ways,
the forerunner of his prodigies of long ago;
23 From of old I was poured forth,
at the first, before the earth.
24 When there were no depths I was brought forth,
when there were no fountains or springs of water;
25 Before the mountains were settled into place,
before the hills, I was brought forth;
26 While as yet the earth and the fields were not made,
nor the first clods of the world.
27 “When he established the heavens I was there,
when he marked out the vault over the face of the deep;
28 When he made firm the skies above,
when he fixed fast the foundations of the earth;
29 When he set for the sea its limit,
so that the waters should not transgress his command;
30 Then was I beside him as his craftsman,[/color] [Or, as a little child]
[color=000000] and I was his delight day by day,
Playing before him all the while,
31 playing on the surface of his earth;
and I found delight in the sons of men.
32 “So now, O children, listen to me;
33 instruction and wisdom do not reject!
Happy the man who obeys me,
and happy those who keep my ways,
34 Happy the man watching daily at my gates,
waiting at my doorposts;
35 For he who finds me finds life,
and wins favor from the LORD;
36 But he who misses me harms himself;
all who hate me love death.”[/color]
[The New American Bible - compare the KJV or other translations]
The original Hebrew word for "wisdom" is feminine, so in this long passage in Proverbs it is often spoken as "she", but doesn't the above quote from it describe Someone far greater than an abstract virtue?
Hope that also helps, there have been some good answers already.
In Him
Jeannette
