The Old man and Flesh...Different?

Hi wfg,

After we have been crucified with Christ, we are a new creature. Unless we have been crucified with Christ (allowed Him to slay the old man in us), we cannot receive the Spirit, by which to walk (Gal 5:16), and by which [i][b]if[/i][/b] we walk, we will not fulfil the desires of the flesh.

Death is very final. If your old man [u]is dead[/u], then [u]you can[/u] walk in the Spirit.

The flesh may be doing what it had been trained to do by the habits of our sins prior to new birth, but the whole point of God giving us of His Spirit, is that we can now train the flesh to walk in His ways. We can resist its propensities to sin, and we can overcome through the Spirit.

Remember that 'our old man' is a spiritual entity which corrupted the original flesh of man. Once it is dead, what is there to corrupt it? This, again, is why the renewing of the mind assists us in resisting any wrong desires of the mind of the flesh, and of our old mind.

Certainly, 'the old man' and 'the flesh' are not synonymous, even though they worked together like hand and glove before new birth. (That is, the old man was the hand, and the flesh was the glove.)

Thanks for the reply... don't know how long I can hang in here but I'll share how I understand the way this all works.

To me, Heb 10:14 is a key verse, because it tells us that Christ's work has completed us in the Spirit. We now have to walk in a way of life which is unfamiliar to us, but, as we do, God backs us up with the authority and power, mental and physical strength, to live pleasing Him. If we don't begin from that platform - that it is [u]possible[/u] to please God because of what He has done for us as we rest in Christ, then it's unlikely we are going to put the power of our mind and body into following 'His steps' (1 Pet 2).

warriorforgod asked

Is this old mind the same as the old man?

What do you think?

I believe the old man inspires the lusts of the flesh and the lusts of the mind, but once we receive his death, we are, in principle (factually, not theoretically), free from the old man's inspiration (to inspire = to breathe in), if we will lay hold on this truth with our minds, and walk in this truth by faith - the faith of Him who raised Christ Jesus from the dead.

What do you think about when men say that sometimes we like to ressurrect our old man again?

Many people have a stop start kind of relationship with God - [i]as they perceive it[/i] - but He Himself has not changed, nor His word. The breakthrough from sin can be in either direction - that is, that the sinner makes the changes which will convince God he's given up sinning, or, he finds himself in need of God coming to him, to break into his personal dungeon, to release him. Either way, it's all the same truth being outworked in the experience of [i]the believer[/i], according to His (God's) invitation and promises.

Do you think this is a biblical statement.

Are these answers any help?

After we have been crucified with Christ, we are a new creature. Unless we have been crucified with Christ (allowed Him to slay the old man in us), we cannot receive the Spirit, by which to walk (Gal 5:16), and by which if we walk, we will not fulfil the desires of the flesh.

Dorcas, I might be mis-understanding you, but when we receive Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit comes with Him. This is our salvation. The Spirit of the Life of Christ is what sets us free from the law of Sin and death.

We are always carrying about in our body the dying of Christ that the Life of Christ is manifest.

I see these as absolute positives and not conditions.

Romans 8:10And if Christ be in you, the body [u][b]is[/b][/u] dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

I don't see a condition of IF here, but fact.

11But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: [u]but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.[/u]

14For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

Romans 6
1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?

2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:

6Knowing this, that our old man [u][b]is[/b][/u] crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

7For he that [u][b]is[/b][/u] dead [u][b]is[/b][/u] freed from sin.

I think the problem may be not many understanding salvation to begin with. Unfortunately we have so many counterfeit gospels around.

I agree with what you are saying, but was wondering about the **if's**.

You stated:

Death is very final. If your old man is dead, then you can walk in the Spirit.

THEN you can walk in the spirit?

Paul tells us in Galatians that the Spirit wars against the flesh and the flesh against the Spirit.

We have I believe two natures with in us, our old man, Adam 1, and our New Man. Adam 1 is who is crucified with Christ..His history ended at the cross, and we need to reckon it so.

But you seem to be saying that we come to sinless perfection of our old man dying in order to walk in the Spirit?

I'm forever indebted that the **Holy Spirit** living with in me is who brings conviction of sin, putting to death my old man, and self. Without Him, we can do nothing. This will be untill we are completely redeemed and have been Glorified together with Him.

Again Colossians 2 :6As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him:

7Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.

8Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

[u][i][b]9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

10And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: [/b][/i][/u]

11In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

12Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

13And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

14Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Katy

Hi Katy,

I think we're saying the same thing about the operation of faith, but perhaps calling it differently. I concentrated on 'our old man' because that's what warriorforgod asked about.

The 'if' which you quoted me saying (I believe, when you wrote 'I don't see a condition of IF here, but fact') you then followed with verses from Romans 8, which use 'if' several times. I agree they are all consequential upon faith.

warriorforgod had quoted Gal 5:17 without naming the verse, which is why I referred to 5:16 on walking in the Spirit [i]in order[/i] (condition) to [u]not[/u] fulfil the lusts of the flesh.

warriorforgod's question is about whether there is a difference between 'our old man' and 'the flesh'. You seem to be saying you don't believe there is. But, since I [u]do[/u] believe that there is (a difference) perhaps we don't completely agree on the [i]dynamics[/i] of how life in Christ works. For, 'if' we walk in the Spirit, [i]not[/i] fulfilling the lusts of the flesh, this is a point of agreement between us; nevertheless, there are those who believe they are doomed never to have true victory over sin in this life.

I did not imply 'the flesh' stops sinning [i]automatically[/i] (that is, without the person's co-operation), as if its [u]ability[/u] to sin has been switched off instantly. But, I [u]do believe[/u] it is essential to stop certain sins immediately upon salvation - depending upon the manifestation of sin in the unbeliever's life.

For instance, the testimony of a very angry woman who came to the Lord was 'I couldn't be angry even when I tried'. This is how she [u]knew[/u] Jesus had changed her; but this might not be the testimony of someone whose biggest problem had been smoking cannabis, (for instance), who now could give up both weed and tobacco. Do you see what I mean?

As a Christian keeps walking in the Spirit, I believe there are battles to be won over both past sins and present temptations, and each time we recognise something as sin [i]to us personally[/i], the challenge is to stop [i]doing[/i] that as soon as possible. This is what Oswald Chambers calls 'continuous conversion', I believe. He explains it better than I, perhaps.

Hi Dorcas,

I will have to read this more thoroughly this evening, but did want to say this.

It seems according to scripture either Both flesh and our old man is crucified with Christ

OR

Paul uses these terms interchangeably???

Look at this:
Galatians 5:24
And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.

Romans 6:6
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

I'll respond with more later.

Katy

warriorforgod asked

What do you mean by "if we lay hold on this truth?" Does that mean that if we don't lay hold, the "old man" has inspiration?

Put another way, if you were a farmer and moved to new premises, and and no-one told you about the all-singing and dancing combine you had in a barn you had not unlocked yet, you might just use the old equipment you had found on the premises already. But, if you knew you had a new machine, you would probably arrange for the old equipment to go to the junkyard.

In spiritual terms, we receive the gospel which has been proclaimed to us. If no-one tells us our old man has been crucified with Christ, we carry on trying to please God by whatever method we know, even if it doesn't seem to bring the desired results. We tend to blame ourselves for not trying hard enough. Not praying enough. Not Bible-reading enough (and so on). When the answer may be that we have to stop all that, and receive a competely new truth about how His life becomes our life. That's what I mean by 'lay hold': believe. (The question is always, then: believe what?)

I believe I already shared from Romans 6:

5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of [or, grafted into] his death, we shall be also [i]in the likeness[/i] of [grafted into] [i]his[/i] resurrection:

6 [u]Knowing[/u] this, [u]that our old man is crucified[/u] with [i]him[/i], that the body of sin might be destroyed, [u]that henceforth we should [b]not serve sin[/b][/u].

[b]Knowing[/b] = intimately acquainted with

In this case, being intimately acquainted with the truth that our old man has been crucified with Christ, we also [u]know[/u] the reason for this is that, 'henceforth we shoud not [i]serve[/i] sin'.

Please clarify what you mean by "factually, not theoretically" and what is the difference between these two and "principle."

I think it goes like this:

A Christian has an old nature from his physical birth and a new nature from his spiritual birth. The New Testament contrasts these two natures and gives them various names which are more or less synonyms:

Old Nature

“our old man” (Romans 6:6 note)

“the flesh” (Galatians. 5:24)

“corruptible seed” (1 Peter 1:23 note)

VS

New Nature

“the new man” (Colossians. 3:10 note)

“the Spirit” (Galatians. 5:17)

“God’s seed” (1 John 3:9)

I do believe these are used interchangeably.

Katy

I simply mean that if we don't believe the old man is dead, we are not going to find him dead in our experience. To me, this is a pivotal point for our faith

Dorcas, I wholeheartedly agree!

Paul tells us to KNOW
RECKON and YIELD to this fact!

I'm catching your drift here! And so glad you said that.

You know, this is the issue with WOF and the easy believeism false Gospel.

They keep the old man alive wanting more and more and more feeding into me myself and I, and don't teach we are crucified with Christ.

Paul says of these, their appetite is in their belly, minding earthly worldly things, who are enemies of the CROSS.

Paul also said I am Crucified to the World and the world is crucified to me.

The lust of the flesh, the pride of life and the lust of the eyes.....all materialism in one form or fashion driven by the flesh or old man?? either/both!!

Thanks Dorcas, Great point!
Katy

Historically I know that people have associated the "old man" with the flesh. But scripture tells me that when we are born again the old man is crucified and all his desires

The "Old Man" and the "Flesh lusting against the Spirit" is one in the same thing.

The Old Man represents Adam, fleshy, earthy. The New Man represents the holy Spirit, Christ, Heavenly.

So with all this information, How is it that if we are crucified with Christ (old man) and that our flesh is crucified, then why do we war against a dead enemy?

Hi warriorforgod,

To your last question.... please look up on myutmost.org, Oswald Chambers' 'Continuous Conversion', and read it with this verse from Romans 8:

13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if [b]ye[/b] [u]through the Spirit[/u] [b]do mortify the deeds of the body[/b], [u]ye shall live[/u].

You are still reading flesh and old man as one and the same. The old man is a spiritual mind which influences the flesh, but flesh of itself is not sinful [i]per se[/i]. It becomes sinful if this is what we use it for. But, as Paul explains in Romans 6, flesh can be made to serve righteousness, rather than sin.

One last thought... philologos posted a series of explanations in a thread started by PreachParsly, called 'What is sin?' You might get a better sense of what I'm trying to say from those replies, also.

Thanks.

To Katy.... :-D Thanks also.

Compton, that's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time!!!

[size=x-large]:lol: [/size]

Katy

Beyedoers said

I remember Ron B. (philologos) discussing this once. I THINK (don't want to put words into his mouth) he said something to the effect of our flesh is individual lust against the spirit we all carry with us but there was one "corporate" old man (singular) that was crucified with Christ.

For the purpose of explaining this further, philologos gives this 'sin' a capital S - Sin. He explains the properly in the thread 'What is sin?' which I mentioned earlier.

The way to distinguish in scripture reading, between Sin and 'a sin', is to read in Young's Literal Translation, where Young uses 'the sin' for Sin. The sin, 'our old man', is Paul's way of giving sin what we might call [i]a life of its own[/i], as he separates it out in Romans.

It is this [i]character[/i] called 'the sin', which commits [u]sins[/u]. It is the [i]character[/i] called 'the sin', which was crucified with Christ, [u]the death[/u] of which, [u]we appropriate in Him[/u], and only through Him.

Much earlier in the thread, I mentioned re-training the flesh to not serve sin, as Paul describes in Romans 6. warriorforgod, this is the battleground - that re-training camp of life and daily living.

Picking up on PaulWest's use of the term 'the new man', you'll find Paul the apostle exhorting us to 'put off' the old man and 'put on' the new man. This is another pictorial way of describing what it is to cease from sin by acts of desire\\purpose\\will to bring about the ceasing from sin.

Apparently, the Greek verb 'put on' means 'sink into', which is how they described putting on a robe (their daily normal clothes in that culture), and which also mimics the picture in baptism, of sinking into His death to rise into His life.

warriorforgod asked

if the flesh and the old man are synonymous then WHY are we fighting against the flesh since the old man is on his side?

Are they different? If not, why do we fight a dead enemy? If so, then why does scripture make them synonyomous.

Try reading them as different, and you will also come to references about 'the body'. The body is also different from the flesh.

The flesh is not dead in the sense that 'our old man' is dead, although as Compliments put it, is a good way of reminding ourselves that the sinful actions of the flesh were crucified [u]to[/u] us, in Christ.

Now, it is a matter of whether we will have to sin to rule over us - or, righteousness? [u]How we behave[/u] will tell us where our own heart lies - or... where our own heart betrays us by what we put our minds and our bodies to serving.

Sure, Paul has clearly listed named sins in the New Testament, and the full list is in the Old Testament, but we also battle to stop [i]thinking[/i] in favour of sinning. This is another aspect of the daily battleground, and it does, eventually, become more peaceful there. And, the deeper thought patterns of our whole natural culture and personal history come under the kind of pressure which only God can exert, until we understand this and that of how flawless Jesus was as the Word made Flesh.

The challenges never come to an end on the practical level of living, but the spiritual truth that we [u]have been completed in Him[/u] through the eternal sacrifice in the Spirit, is the basis of our hope of the resurrection after [i]our[/i] physical death.

Seriously, I recommend you find an online version of Young's literal translation, and search for 'the sin'. I suspect you'll find it in the Old Testament also. Then, read all the references and see if you can get a feel for the difference between 'the sin' (our old man) and, the fruit of the life of 'the sin', which scripture calls 'sins'.

Maybe these scriptures will help:

Romans 7:18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Galatians 2:20I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live [u]in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.[/u]

Romans 8:1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

2For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Ephesians 4:21-25

21If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus:

22That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

23And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;

24And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to fulfil the lusts thereof.

The New Man is Christ.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

The Gospel according to the Mystery is **Christ in you**, and **You In Him** the Hope of Glory.

Katy

Here is a great article that may help to understand our salvation.

Our Old Man Is Crucified With Him
By G.V. Growcott

"We are buried with him by baptism into death, that like as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The predominant characteristic of this occasion is joyfulness. We are told that the awakening of a son of Adam to the love of God and the decision to become united to Christ is a cause of great joy in heaven. One more is added to the family of the sons of God, all knit together in the beauty of holiness.

While an occasion of great joy, it is also an occasion of great seriousness and solemnity. We are here to witness both a death and a birth. The whole background of baptism is death. The act of baptism is a recognition that the end of natural man is death -- that all are subject to the power and lordship of the great enemy -- that death casts an ever-present shadow over all life's hopes and joys -- that the highest and noblest and sweetest of this life's activities all end in the darkness of the tomb.

But this is only part of the picture. This is the natural side. While baptism is a recognition of this state, and all the vanity and sorrow surrounding it, its principal purpose is to manifest the great deliverance from it that the love of God has, through Christ, provided. Baptism is a death whose purpose is to make way for a glorious new birth.

The chapter just read (Rom. 6) is a strong, intense exhortation to holiness, based on this death-and-new-birth symbolism.

Symbols are but shadows -- it is the reality they symbolize that counts. The act of baptism itself is only a symbol -- it is upon the fulfillment of the reality of the newness of life it portrays that life and death depend.

Paul shows that the reality symbolized is death to the old natural way of the flesh and rebirth to the new way of the Spirit of holiness. His conclusion in chapter 5 is this, that --

"As sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life, by Jesus Christ our Lord" (Rom. 5:21).

But how does grace "reign through righteousness unto eternal life?" Paul has said that --

"Where sin abounded, grace -- that is, the gentle unmerited goodness and kindness of the glorious love of God -- did much more abound" (Rom. 5:20).

And also he has said that God had included all under sin, that He might have opportunity to extend His grace, mercy and kindness to all.

"What shall we say then? -- (he asks) -- Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?" (Rom. 6: 1).

Put in this blunt way, the thought seems self-evidently absurd, but actually it is the unconscious presumption that lies behind any carelessness or complacency about any form or evidence of sin.

Sin is a terrible, destroying disease -- highly infectious -- infinitely more deadly than any physical disease. When we are not straining every effort in the war against this evil thing, we are in practice saying, "Let us continue in sin so grace may abound."

"God forbid! -- Let it not be! -- How shall we, that are DEAD TO SIN, live any longer therein?" (Rom. 6:2).

What does he mean: "Dead to sin?" How does a man become dead to sin?

"Do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?" (v. 3).

That is, do you not know that the act of baptism is an act of recognition of the necessity of a DEATH -- a death in order to end a certain state of affairs -- to create a complete severance and separation and termination (v. 4) --

"Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death, that like as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life."

We note the words, "by the glory of the Father" -- "like as Christ was raised by the glory of the Father, even so we also . . ."

Ours, too, must be "by the glory of the Father" -- there is no other way -- no other possible way of walking "in newness of life." We cannot do it of our own weak, mortal, sinful selves. "Newness of life by the glory of the Father" is the great thought that gives baptism its beauty and significance. A new life, a completely new beginning. What a wonderful occasion it is!

A natural son of Adam, an earthy creature born under the shadow of death and bound by the dominion of sin, reaches a stage of development and enlightenment wherein he is drawn by the power of God to voluntarily choose that which is good, and holy, and divine, and reject all that is related to the kingdom of sin and the wilfulness of the flesh -- not from fear of consequences -- not even just from desire for reward -- but rather from pure, transforming love for a glorious divine Benefactor and Father -- from an overwhelming sense of His infinite goodness and the transcendent joy of His friendship and love --

"Iove is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God."

"He that loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love."

"He that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him."

"There is no fear in love: perfect love casteth out fear."

When we look at the beautiful picture John draws of divine love -- of its holiness, and purity, and fearlessness, and perfection -- we are apt, like Peter, to draw back into the thought --

"Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord!"

But the beloved apostle allays our fears, and gently draws us onward, teaching us that this beautiful picture is a matter of development and growth, though at first only dimly perceived --

"I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven";

"I write unto you, young men, because ye are strong";

"I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him from the beginning" (1 Jn. 2:12-13).

And he shows us the way --

"Whoso KEEPETH HIS WORD, in him verily is the love of God perfected; hereby know we that we are in Him" (1 Jn. 2:5)

Paul tells us (Rom. 10:17) --

"Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the WORD OF GOD."

That is the beginning. When hearing has brought faith, and faith -- belief -- has moved to thankful and humble obedience in the waters of baptism, then the joyful course of life and love reaches higher and higher toward the perfection of the divine ideal. This is expressed in many ways. Paul speaks of it as --

"Coming in the unity of the Faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ" (Eph. 4:13).

He speaks of it as being --

"Rooted and built up in him ... unto all riches of the full assurance of understanding of the mystery of God and of Christ, in whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" (Col. 2:7, 2).

He speaks of it perhaps most beautifully and deeply in this way --

"We all, with open face reftecting as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory by the Spirlt of the Lord" (2 Cor. 3:18).

This is the glorious and exciting spiritual experience that leads upwards in ever-increasing joyfulness from the waters of baptism to the eternal radiance of the day of the Lord.

Baptism, while only the beginning, is the great turning-point in life. The act of baptism is unquestionably the greatest and most important single act and moment of one's entire lifetime.

"IF we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection."

It is clear that Paul is speaking, not just of the literal act of baptism which all professed believers pass through, but rather he is thinking of the full significance of being "planted in the likeness of his death," for the parallel thought -- "likeness of his resurrection" -- does not just mean coming out of the grave, but the resurrection of life in its fullest and most glorious sense.

Resurrection as such -- just the coming out of the grave does not, we know, depend on baptism, but on responsible knowledge of God. Therefore the "likeness of Christ's resurrection" to which Paul refers cannot just mean emergence from the grave, for he makes it contingent upon a being "planted together in death."

And likewise this "planting together" cannot just be the external form of baptism for that is no assurance of sharing Christ's glorious resurrection -- it must be the reality to which the act of baptism testifies and bears witness -- the death of the "old man" and the "walking in newness of life." He continues --

"Knowing this, that our old man is (in baptism) crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed" (Rom. 6:6).

"Our old man is crucified with him." We are all double personalities -- the old man of the flesh and the new man of the Spirit. Paul tells the Ephesians (4:22) that the old man is "corrupt -- decaying -- going to ruin -- through deceitful lusts."

He calls them deceitful because they never give the pleasure and happiness they seem to promise -- because they appear good and desirable to the blindness of the natural mind but actually only end in sorrow and regret and emptiness.

The "old man" is the natural man -- pleasing ourselves -- doing what we think we want to do -- following the ordinary way of the world -- everything that is contrary to the enlightened mind of the Spirit. We can most clearly see the distinction in contemplating the characteristics of the new man -- the fruits of the Spirit, as Paul gives them in GaL 5:22 --

Love -- that is, thinking, desiring and doing good to all, regardless of what they do to us.

Joy -- a consistent spiritual cheerfulness flowing from close and satisfying fellowship with God.

Peace -- calm, inward tranquility -- "Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Thee." -- the mind resting at all times upon God.

Longsuffering -- inexhaustible patience and kindness toward all human weakness and waywardness, recognizing the frailty and sadness of natural man.

Gentleness -- no roughness, or hardness, or bitterness, or pride, or self-assertion -- all of which are manifestations of ungodly ignorance.

Now Paul says that in baptism the old man is crucifled -- everything in the flesh contrary to these Spirit-fruits is crucified in the act of baptism.

Crucifixion has two aspects: a putting to death, and a public holding up to condemnation and repudiation.

The natural Serpent nature must be put to death, and in its putting to death it must be publicly held up to condemnation on the Rod of the Spirit-Word.

Baptism is a public repudiation of all these things as a way of life -- a renouncing of allegiance to the old Master, Sin, whom we all serve from birth, and a pledging of allegiance to a new Master and a new way of life. It is a solemn covenant --

"All that the Lord hath said will we do."

Paul says (Rom. 6:18) that in baptism we are "made free from sin." What does it mean to be "made free from sin"? What does it mean in the actual realities of life?

It involves much. In the ultimate, if faithfully pursued until the end, it involves complete freedom from the sin-principle and its inseparable companion, death. This is the gracious, unreserved title of freedom and release that we are freely given in baptism -- freedom from sin, from sorrow, from pain, disease and death -- freedom from all the burdensome limitations of human frailty and corruption.

But primarily, at the present time, it means a great lifting of the burden of the consciousness of sin -- of natural ugliness and deformity of character.

Paul exclaims, as he describes the awakening consciousness of the vicious evil that runs through every fiber of human nature --

"O wretched man that l am! Who shall deliver me from, this body of death?" (Rom. 7:24).

Baptism is the loving and merciful provision for cleansing from this condition --

"Ye are washed,"

"Ye are sanctified" (made holy),

"Ye are justifted (made righteous and upright) -- in the Name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and BY THE SPIRIT OF OUR GOD" (1 Cor. 6:11).

The baptized believer is one with Christ -- a part of Christ -- an accepted part of the triumphant perfection of holiness which in Christ trod sin under foot and held it powerless.

The baptized believer is a Brother in Christ -- he has a guaranteed part in the final and eternal victory of sin and death -- as long as he truly abides in Christ. Jesus said to his disciples, on the night before his death --

"Abide in me, and I in you. He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit."

-- the glorious Spirit-fruits of holiness of character --

"These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full."

"This is my COMMANDMENT -- that ye LOVE ONE ANOTHER, EVEN AS I HAVE LOVED YOU" (Jn. 15:11).

It is an essential requirement of discipleship that we, as brethren, love one another in the same way he loved us. Of that love which he has given us as a pattern, he says, as he continues --

"Greater love hath no man than this -- that a man lay down his life for his friends" (v. 13).

This is the love and fellowship to which baptism opens the door. And the new brother, as he rises from the cleansing waters, says with Paul (Gal. 2:20) --

"I am crucifted with Christ. Nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life that I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me."

I so love this from Paul,

Philippians 3:8Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,

9And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

11If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.

12Not as though I had already attained, either were already [u][i][b]Perfect[/b][/i][/u]: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.

13Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,

14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15Let us therefore, as many as be [u][i][b]Perfect[/b][/i][/u], be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

Our faith works through LOVE....HIS LOVE,

The LOVE of GOD is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit.....Romans 5
Romans 5
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

So now we are In Christ, and He is in us, being made ONE in Him, being conformed to His image through the fellowship of His Sufferings, pressing on for the hope of our High Calling In Christ...OVERCOMERS, more then Conquers, knowing Nothing can separate us from the Love of God in Christ Jesus.

John 17:23
I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made [u][i][b]Perfect[/b][/i][/u] in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

2 Corinthians 13:11
Finally, brethren, farewell. Be [u][i][b]Perfect[/b][/i][/u], be of good comfort, be of one mind, live in peace; and the God of love and peace shall be with you.

1 John 2:5
[u][i][b]But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God Perfect: hereby know we that we are in him.[/b][/i][/u]

1 John 4:12
No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, [u][i][b]and his love is Perfected in us.[/b][/i][/u]

1 John 4:17
[u][i][b]Herein is our love made Perfect[/b][/i][/u], that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but [u][i][b]Perfect[/b][/i][/u] love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made [u][i][b]Perfect in love[/b][/i][/u].

I love Jude 21:

[b]21Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life. [/b]

Katy