Have you been Baptized in the Holy Spirit, a second experience?Why you must be.

I fully agree on the importance of this in every believers life.

Could you describe the point in life when you came to be filled? What was it that finally brought you to this? I am still running around in cirles and have yet to fully receive all the God has for me, to my shame. :-?

If I may chime in here...

In my own experience, I distinctly recall that about a month after I began to ask Christ to save me - I wasn't sure He had, though I had confessed my dependence upon Him for justification and had begun striving to "break off my sins by righteousness" - I woke one morning to what seemed like a new life. My fear of condemnation was greatly removed. I was full of joy at Christ's kindness towards me and had trust in Him to have really and actually saved me. Throughout the day I began attempting to pray without ceasing, and for the first time began to witness boldly to many people. From there my life radically changed.

Time passed and after several months the initial energy began to wain. Compromises and repetitive sins seemed to coincide with the lessening of this apparent power working in me. I had less peace, less energy for spiritual activities.

And yet, after that season, during periods of renewed humility before the Lord, I have many times "asked and received" of the Lord's power in the Spirit. Whether for nights of open-air preaching, or extended and earnest prayers, the Lord has granted a palpable blessing from His Spirit on more than one occasion.

All of this is to say that I believe there are many "blessings" of the Holy Spirit. As often as one is humbled and desperate enough to cry out to our Father for the riches for which Christ departed, I believe we receive again the outpouring of the Spirit.

I believe in a second blessing as much as I believe in a fifth and five-hundredth.

You can read about my conversion and subsequent empowering here:

[url=http://theopenlife.blogspot.com/2005/07/when-i-was-four-years-old-stranger.html]My Conversion[/url]

I will mention, however, that I have not experienced tongues though I have asked God that, if He wills, I would. "Not all speak in tongues." My greater concern at present is the lack of love I have towards strangers.

The manner in which we proclaim what we believe can discredit what we say when we deliver it in the following spirit: I can't possibly be wrong (pride), I'm going to fight, not discuss in meekness, but fight with all my rough edges, anyone that disagrees (recklessness), I'm not going to consider any other possibilities (which means that I must disregard certain scriptures that may or may not contradict my belief)(pride), I'm going to display my willingness to bring division and make jabs at my opponents (not brothers for whom Christ died, but opponents), etc...

I hope no one takes this as a personal attack. It has far too often been true of me. It can happen to all of us. I used to jump into a conversation and set everyone straight on right doctrine and let everyone know where they were wrong. I have to watch over my spirit on these matters. I have rarely seen a discussion on essentials where we disagree, brethren. Are nonessentials worth the division that they cause so often? I would like to have discussed this topic, myself, but I dare not enter into it presently. I will only say this. There are guidelines to follow when intrepretting scripture. If there were one person I'd point to to be helped in knowing (or at least consider them)these guidelines I would point to the man that the late Stephen Olford referred to as knowing more about the Bible than anyone he knows...that would be Jeff Adams.

For my part I pray that the Holy Spirit may apply to me, subjectively, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus that Christ be revealed..thereby being glorified.

ZionShield

Are nonessentials worth the division that they cause so often?

If the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is part of God's provision for the believer we should be cautious of classing it as a nonessential (if that's what you meant).

Like the 'dead crow' analogy points out, one of Satan's tricks is to scare people away from the 'corn'. If we stay away from everything that is potentially contentious or offensive, we will never get to the corn. Instead we will become spiritually anemic, which exactly where Satan wants us.

The true gospel of Christ will always be contentious and offensive in the world's eyes. The "Lets avoid contention and live happily together" philosophy is one of Satan's favourite arguments against Christianity itself.

Instead we should be able to discuss these things in detail while keeping our prideful human nature in check.

PassingThru

If the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is part of God's provision for the believer we should be cautious of classing it as a nonessential (if that's what you meant).

They Found the Secret by V. Raymond Edman

20 mini testimonies of great men and women of God and their 'second experiences'. Real challenging stuff which had the affect of focusing me on the need for the inner filling from the Holy Spirit.

Will look up that Tozer material Appolus - thanks for the info! :-)

I see, having read over my post, how easily it would be to think I referred to the main topic as non-essential. May I assure you that I consider it of great importance and essential if God would use us as a vessel of honor. I am pumping water out of the basement so I can light the pilot light so we can have heat tonight...so I will reply another time.

blessings

If i could speak in any language in heaven or on earth* but didn't love others, i would only be making meaningless noise like a loud gong or a clang cymbal. If i had the gift of prophecy, and if i knew all the mysteries of the future and knew everything about everything, but didn't love others, what good would i be? And if i had the gift of faith so that i could speak to a mountain and make it move, without love i would be no good to anybody. If i gave everything i have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, i could boast about it*; but if i didnt' love others, i would be of no value what so ever.

Love is patient and king. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud or rude. Love does not demand its own way. Love is not irritable, and it keeps no record of when it has been wronged. It is never glad about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out.

Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.

Love will last forever, but prophecy and speaking in unknown languages* and special knowledge will all disappear. Now we know only a little, and even the gift of prophecy reveals little! But when the end comes, these speacial gifts will all disappear.

It's like this: When i was a child, i spoke and thought and reasoned as a child does. But when i grew up, i put away childish things. Now we see things imperfectly as in a poor mirror, but then we will see everything with perfect clarity*. All that i know now is partial and incomplete, but then i will know everything completely, just as God know me now.

These are three things that will endure
Faith, Hope, and Love -- and the the greatest of these if LOVE.

It is neverending. Its' this kind of love that took willingly our Savior to the Cross, willingly he hung on that cross, looking down and seeing the multitudes of people that said they loved him, it was those same people that walked with him and sat under his teaching, they worshipped him and now they reject him, CRUCIFY HIM, CRUCIFY HIM "JESUS" if you are God saves yourself, and he just hung there in love, the Father coming down in the form of a man, to save his Creation, this is love. Do you love him today?

And he hung on that cross remembering the promise he had made to his twelve disciples, What was that promise, he promised them a HOLY SPIRIT, this my friend, this my brother, this my sister, was the 2nd baptism i believe the first was when he called them and said, follow me -- that was there first baptism.

And so we wait, we patiently wait on you, not worried about the time, just patiently waiting on you.

=====

correction, the 2nd baptism was on the day of pentecost, when they faithfully waited in that upper room, for countless of hours, when the Holy Spirit appeared from every direction as a rushing wind, a world wind and all that were there were baptised with the gift of speaking in other tongues....

Bluinos

If i could speak in any language in heaven or on earth* but didn't love others, i would only be making meaningless noise like a loud gong or a clang cymbal.

In my view 1 Cor. 13.1 concludes chapter 12 by pointing out that our whole lives, together with the gifts of the Spirit, shouldn't be centered on ourselves, but rather used for the furtherance of others in Christ. This theme is present throughout chapter 12.

PassingThru

Not only is the second blessing essential in our lives, but the third and the fourth and the fifth and onward and upward in Christ Jesus.

The second blessing is only the beginning...

Your brother in Christ
Jeff

Greetings brethren!

When Frank first posted this topic I rejoiced and was glad! As I followed it with great interest,knowing that this was the very thing the Holy Spirit had been praying through many of the believers who frequent this Site,I was greatly encouraged by the words of Compliments when He spoke on experience.My life in Christ is all about experience, the Word made Alive,Active,which makes me an uncomfortable thorn to some and a joy to others and so I always am praying to be Appropriate and balanced in my sharing.I was made the way I am..i am not in charge of how God has chosen to move in my life..it is His..not mine..but it is mine to share..yours to recieve or reject.

In another thread (true dispensationalism)I'd been explaining in my long drawn out way about having recieved this much needed baptism of the Holy Spirit and some of my experiences in being utilized in the gifts of this same Spirit for the benefit of others..and the edification of myself as well.. in the speaking in tongues which with my experience also comes with interpretation when asked for with faith, believing. Faith is required here..in the recieving of both the baptism of fire and the operating in the gifts of the Spirit of truth..which are actually the very same things that Jesus was doing as He went about preaching the Kingdom of God/heaven. He is the Gift..in fullness.

Upon reading and pondering the direction God was taking us in these discussions I wondered what He would have me add here, if anything,to encourage others to be open to these great and wonderful promises,a vital part of our inheritance in Christ. I found myself asking..so when exactly did this happen for me,Lord..what is my story? Remind me how it went..it was almost 30 yrs ago and I am 51. In trying to fix the actual event,I began thinking about some of the teachings that preceeded me knowing that this was something for us and that we could ask,believing and recieve it.. as promised. But I am not called as a teacher in this manner so I was not going to lay this forth,others would do a more thorough and practical job of this approach.

I remembered the season when this first began.. of praying in tongues with my roomate..a lovely sister who shared the same as me..generous and kind..and the day she came home after work to tell me how she had not been able to speak the same language with a young couple she wanted to share the gospel of Jesus with and had begun to speak in Japanese..somehow understanding it for the first time..the whole Gospel message..and they recieved Him..she was ecstatic..this I hadn't done..mine was sort of a bubbling and wonderful sound like a stream of water flowing, but it certainly encouraged me to believe that we could if God wanted us to.

Ok I remembered this and also when my 4 yr old son began to speak in tongues as well some months later. I knew there was something that came in between the learning by reading along in many bible studies..having the truth enter and illuminate my mind as to the reality of this being something promised and recievable by seeing the proof in the written Word especially in the book of Acts (which we were taught was actually the Acts of the Holy Spirit through the Apostles)So..I recalled the season of pursueing God in faithful supplication to recieve this in a Living Word way..action..actual experience.And recieve it I did!However I found that in this searching through my memory,I was confronted with the very most glorious experience of my life besides my soveriegn conversion.. where I was drawn by the Father to His Son,Christ Jesus in stages throughout my first 19 yrs..each time He made Himself known to me was an event that was dramatic,inexplicable..miraculous. His merciful patience in the way He has led me from the beginning of my walk,ever deeper into Himself,as He deemed necessary astounds me even moreso now.I am so in awe of His faithfulness!

At 19 and an unwed mother..He revealed Himself to me in a way that is very difficult to describe..except to say that I was completely undone,being shown in a divinely powerful and mighty way, His Standard..His Perfect Holiness..His Glory and Power! He showed me Himself in experiencial visions so wonderful and also very fearful.. I have never been able to speak of them..perhaps they are sealed..but this part I can speak of..alongside of the revelation of the most Worthy of Masters,this King of Glory..I was to see, with the knowledge of god's compassion for all I had suffered and had contributed to my having become hardened and rebellious,my own despicable self,my unclean words..the attitudes I carried about to protect myself from the cruelty of the world I'd been thrust into alone at a young age..the fact the\\at there was no excuse for it considering what he'd done for me on the cross to save me from sin.For the first time I since I had beleieved upon Him as Savior when I wore a child's size 7 roller skate and rolled into a gathering of kids around the block and was invited into a backyard bible study where I promptly said "Of course I want Him to be my Savior!when they explained to me what He'd done for me,complete with large drawings on an easel..that was all I got for many years following..but now! now I came to understand what He'd meant when I experienced His Presence (approx. a week earlier) when He had entered my room where I sat crumpled on the floor miserable at having been seduced by a man who'd come looking to please himself at my naive expense..plying me with alcohol and drugs,which I'd given up for the most part after becoming a mother..which caused me to become very spaced out when I went for a bicycle ride with 15 mos old son on the seat in back.Being distracted by thebirds who landed in mass near me I'd turned into the street and was struck high into the air by the yellow adminstative Firetruck.At the hospital I was shunned by the nurses who looked at my darling little son..who was kept a few days for observation due to a possible concussion..I was shooed away..told to go home and so there i sat completely disgusted with myself for falling into such a selfish and stupid circumstance because someone paid me a little attention! my son could have ben killed..it was a miracle I knew, that we were barely injured.

It was then that The Presence of God came into my room and I heard Him Speak, audibly..from outside of my head.It was the Most powerfully piercingly pure and noble,majestic Voice I'd ever heard.It was then that He asked me to give Him my life..It was the second time this had happened since I was 17..but this time I was more ready to be changed..He told me that He was my Creator,God..that He had made me for His purposes..however I was destroying my life..this was not what He'd intended when He gave me life..He asked me to Give Him my life and He would make something beautiful out of it. A simple and direct request..I came into agreement eagerly..hopefully..it all made perfect sense to me..if the Almighty God who made me could not direct my life then who would,me? It was clear I was incapable of this..I will tell you...I still am..Heaven forbid if I should ever cease to know this with every last ounce of my being.

Back to a week later when after my check has been stolen and I'm forced to move out of my little hobbit house,as I called it and into a converted volkwagen van..that doesn't run..but is shelter..I am led by the police and some kind gentlemen to park the van behind the old hotel on Main Street so as not to lose my baby.I am introduced to the manager and as I reach forward to shake hands..I can feel the powerful presence of God again very strong,yet so very safe and comforting,as when He'd spoken to me..John and Deeann Brown,two servants of the living God opened their home to me and my boy,making a pallet for me on the livingroom floor and for one day spoke to me of their lives and how they came to follow Jesus.The next day when John was at work,and Deeann was somewhere,my son wa taking an extra long nap,I'd finished the dishes and suddenly the Presence of God was there again..so mighty that it knocked me to my knees as this other realm opened for me to see amd Jesus was revealed to me in this most amazing way..I am now being soveriegnly coverted..the desperation and horror of seeing my selfish way,next to His lowly loving sacrifice..His longsuffering and tender hearted mercy..and finally His forgiveness..His amazing forgiveness flooding in after hours of repentant tears and turning..Him turning me towards Him and away from the hardened heart and sins of my youth..now I understood better what He desired of me..He wanted to control my every move..my every word..He proceeded to pour out His grace upon me to enable me to stay focused and dependant..hearing His voice and looking up to Him..Father what would You have me do? It was the way He chose to get my attention..it was an experience He gave me..I was changed so completely that it caused an uproar in the beach town where I was well known and generally liked,very tough when crossed,battered,pesky street urchin,tomboy,girl next door, buddy to all the surfers,shop owners,their employees,police officers and hanger-outers that I'd befriended.

My eyes were opened to the deep darkness that covered the earth and I could now see demonic activity in people's eyes..I was shown that I'd entered an entirely new dimension/realm..God's kingdom and it scared me alittle..but God was very Present..explaining to me about the spiritual war that was raging..why I could see the evil in 'the windows of peoples souls' and that He would be teaching me about the warfare that I would need to know to endure until the the end..He led me gently and firmly through my initial objections to war..I was a confirmed peacenik and the whole idea of battles and warfare was not on my dial..the responsibility of it all was staggering to me.The Holy Spirit was telling me that now that I saw..my eyes being opened, there was no going back to the way it was before..not seeing..not hearing unless I chose to depart from Him..i would only then be destroyed by the neemy who had always been trying to take me and my son off the planet prematurely. I would have to simply accept this and trust Him to bring me through it all..He did say that He would not be having me go through anything that I was not able to handle and this comforted me.I lived in holy fear..Reverential awe and honest to goodness fear of displeasing God the Father..I was struck with this one thing..my life was not my own..and that I needed Him to guide my every step..tell me every word to say.And so I listened intently..learning many bible stories from my hosts the three weeks or so I stayed with them..obeying Him out of pure fear before His deep love began to be revealed in His careful way with me..His gentle training and His loving correction. I give thanks for having begun like this,it has always seemed to be such an advantage.

He did not connect me with my first fellowship for about 2+ yrs..by then I had learned to walk in the spirit with Jesus..and read the bible in spurts..without order..here a little there a little..but I needed to be taught many things..to become more disciplined in my Bible reading..to go straight through entire books under trusted guidance..men and women whom God had preordained to entrust me to for the next yrs that followed..He also brought me lots of great books written by wonderful men and women of God..but He brought me the material He wanted me to read in the order in which He wanted me to read it..freely and would then bring it Alive in my surrendered life.I was a challenge to my dear pastors and those who tried their best to oversee this unusual child of God..I'd been baptised in water earlier in my teens..but never really understood the true dimensions of this old man being buried symbolically this was taught and I ate it..I was baptised again ..in the ocean with my fellowship rejoicing..I give thanks to God for that innocent time..how I loved being a part of a family..what A committed churchgoer I became..but my walk was decidedly different from the other singles..for a time I was the only single parent.I did not really fit in with either group so I tried to fit into both..most everyone was just great..I loved them one and all.

You have been so patient to have read this far with me..you will be blessed I know if you continue.I am showing the difference between the two experiences,,neither of mine will be familiar to many of you..don't compare them with yours..only rejoice with me and they become yours too..just as alkl the great men and women of god whose stories ,boiographies I was given to read inspired me to beleieve and thus I was given very similar things in my life..I would have you blessed and full of faith..I share as compelled to..rtesisting theurge to hidemy story because it is too long and laborious for most,when you cannot hear the tone of my voice in the telling..see my bright eyes and engaging smile..I am no great saint..I am only a servant who must obey my Lord when he asks me to open up and have courage..to release the word and work of God that is in me and has been held back for far too long.

In telling you of my baptism in the Holy Spirit there was this one thing that happened..this one thing that marked the begimnning of a huge change in me and also in this idyllic and much beloved community of believers for me..good people standing strong as they knew how in the midst of a transient and radical influx of lawless surfers from all over the world..bible studies 4-5 nights a week and church with wonderful worship under a big tent in one of the most beautiful arboretum's in the islands..growing families and singles all strung along the beautiful shoreline of Oahu's Northern Shore..the place where some of the largest waves on earth are ridden and fallen from depending on skill.

This is the setting I began to learn of the infilling of the Holy Spirit as a second experience..also reading from the testimonies of many many saints..one in particular..a Mel Tari..who came from the island of Timor to preach in Haliewa town..right after I had just finished reading his two books:Like A Mighty Wind..and.. The Gentle Breeze of Jesus and had recieved this new visitation of Christ Jesus accompanied by a group of angels whom He introduced to me as being assigned to me. Though what He had to say was very simple..You need never fear..I will never leave you nor forsake you..and what He had to say about these angels echoed this same word found to be so very very real..when I shared this with my fellowship on the eve when all had returned from the retreat I could not afford to attend and joyfully told of this wonderful experience,I was 22..where I'd been up reading the Bible and writing a salvation song for an earlier roommate from the mainland who I'd just found out by letter that had committed her life to Jesus as Lord...my joy was very full, I'd been listening to Kieth Green's No Compromise.It was late,after midnight,when leaving the main cabin where the kitchen and livingroom were seperate..noticing my harraches(sandals) were missing..hmmm?strange..crossing the lanai deckwork..I began to mount the stairs to the small bedroom cabin where my little son,then 4 yrs slept peacefully..a lamp burning nearby should he awaken.The wind felt good,safe looking out over the large yard at the hedge of large trees,ironwoods,my favorite for the way they whispered softly..as though singing.I could hear the waves pounding on the beach nearby and became aware of the traffic on the road as a car whooshed by breaking into the peaceful sound of only God's creation in harmony.

Suddenly I was startled by the sound of loud thumping footsteps behind me as though a very heavy,large man had slipped into the yrd and had been hiding in the shadows while I'd changed for bed in the dressing room below..I suddenly felt vulnerable in my 40's classic satin and lace nightgown without a robe.and my mind whirled back through time to one horrific scene after another..things that no girl should have to have in her memory.I became rigid with fear imagining that I'd become the target of an evildoer once again..Fear as heavy as a very large and somewhat damp blanket fell over me paralyzing me..darkness..it was..covering me.. even though the porch light below me was on.

What I tell you is the Truth..I have a great Cloud of witnesses that will testify on my behalf come the day when we are all together before the throne..and if you have a relationship with the One who died to save us,you need only ask Him and He will assure you Himself.I have absolutely no need to exaggerate..there is no need to misrepresent the wonder of God's way to those who need to know how very present our God is in time of need,especially as the time of trouble looms closer.

I stood there ,unable to move and looking to God I heard..This is a spirit of fear that covers you..and it appeared to me as a large thick dark blanket..heavy and damp..surely I thought "I have deposited Your word in me,Lord..help me remember the answer to this attack!" and this large filing cabinate appeared in my minds eye and i saw the drawer open and as it stetched out before me i heard my self saying ok..now fear..what have you said abotu fear something casts it out..fear..what was it again..as these files flipped past like folders with labels and suddenly one flipped open and I saw..PERFECT LOVE CASTS OUT ALL FEAR..of cousre perfect love..Jesus is perfect love..Jesus! and the blanket flew off of me,whoom!The soft glow of the porchlight guided ny steps as I marveled..wow that was so great! Opening the latch and slipping into the room,my hand on the latch,I noticed that the latch had no lock..no lock hmmm..everytime i think to lock a door to keep out evil..it make4s me fearful i remebered..thinking again how awesome that was how the fear had..whoom..it came back down upon me..twice as bad this time..oh no I had allowed my mind to rest upon that fear for only a moment and now I was back in the battle again..only now a spirit of confusion took my mind away and around as I scrabbled around flailing for the words that had meant freedom..stiffly I moved backwards and laid myself down on the bed..stiff and paralyzed again with fear..let's see.. reaching for the word..through a turmoil of confusion and fear..PERFECT LOVE CASTS OUT ALL FEAR! JESUS IS PERFECT LOVE>>JESUS>>JESUS>>JESUS I began to repeat His Name..holding on for all I was worth to this Name above all Names..every knee shall bow and every tongue confess this marvelous Name!

Suddenly,with a flash! My spirit was taken out of my body and was very near the ceiling..maybe even above it as it was not a very high ceiling at all..and from the place where I'd been thrust I could see the Lord Jesus and some other beings that looked like angels standing all around the room. at first these did not interest me..this was Jesus!He was looking back at me serious and solemn..allowing me my focus,staring as I tried to make out His every feature to memorize it..but the light was so very bright around Him..more golden round His Head and whiter from His robe where His Body was but changing to a different hue as it spread out over the room.I remembered singing 'How i want to see your face and here He was!He was patient but soon stopped me from staring or I would probably have seen nothing else but this Face!
"No,my features will not become any clearer,..that is as clear as they will get.There is more than what my face looks like look like for you in this." And I saw Him look across the room to the largest angel who was flanked by another facing away..they stood through the beds..a kingsize for us two ladies and a twin for my little son against the wall..the entire room was mostly beds pushed together with a large trunk upon which sat the lamp.Following His gaze I now took in the rest of the room and it's occupants..two angels had their hands on either one of my legs..my earthly body's legs and were obviously praying..some of the angels moved further away so as not to make the scene too much for me to focus on..I saw that all were in another dimension..the beds didn't seem to get in their way they simply stood or kneeled through them as if they were the intangible and the angels were the tangible..some were facing away from me as they stood watching the other direction intently.I saw a look pass between the angel in charge..who was different than the others,higher rank perhaps.. this is the only one I had ever seen up close before and he was the only one who has ever spoken to me since,that I know of. They do disguise themselves all the time though.We will get to know more about all this later, it is what we get to look forwaqrd to as well..all the little suprises that God hides for us along the way.

I was back in that moment to watching Jesus intently.He moved slightly so that He was facing me front on..As though He wanted me to see something else..my eyes took in His Robe..brilliant white and the many corded belt of gold around His waist..further my eyes traveled to the hem of His garment and I thought of the woman whose faith made her whole..trhe hen of His garment! and there I saw His sandals..but I was not prepared for the shock of seeing the gaping holes that were like long open gorey gashes where His ankles and the lowest part of His legs should be..His hands I could see He had down at His sides, the long sleeves covered his wrists and I was somewhat relieved not to have to see these wounds as well..then once I'd seen all that..He turned and stepped in to the wall..positioning Himself behind my head on the bed crossing His legs indian-style.He reached His hand up and as He laid it on my brow.my spirit was immediately back in my body..His powerful touch, a pure glowing comfort as He stroked my forehead again and again..I became aware of eternity in His gentle touch..it was infinite..no end to it's contact though He would lift off His hand to begin each stroke anew from the one side to the other..As I pondered eternity and His touch forever..He spoke.."You need NEVER fear..I will never leave you nor forsake you" I was looking at the angel who stood tall and majestic besides me amd the ones at my feet who seemed unmoved by everything else but to pray for me..suddenly it occurred to me that I had my eyes closed and wondered if I'd been dreaming..opening my eyes quickly I saw nothing but the shekinah glory..the supernatural glow I'd seen on a few occaisions beforehand..and heard Him say(Jesus);

"No..You cannot see them with your physical eyes..but with your spiritual eyes only"..so I closed them immediately and then I could see everything clearly as before.."these are your angels..they are assigned to you,and they will not leave you nor forsake you either..it is as I have said!"

Curious to see this wonderful being more clearly I looked up first at his face ,he was staring straight ahead very focused and stern..he was a fierce warrior!He had on a breastplate over his robe..a very large sword at his side in a sheath and these most marvelous huge wings that rose up over his head..I looked closely at what he was made of..nothing I'd ever seen before..not flesh and blood..but like pure crystaline golden sparkles evry small and close to gether where the folds of his raiment were defining his features..phenomenal!He turned his head slowly and looked at me levely. I was startled to recognize him from when I was rescued at 14 form a maniac. He spoke to me without moving his lips as Jesus had..thoughts telegraphed..He told me of the protocal between angel and human woman..with sober seriousness.How I could not look long into his face or he mine..he spoke of beauty and honor in the true angels and God's daughters..he knew I'd been defiled by demons,raped and brutalized..at the time I did not remember or think upon this..I only felt like a very pure little girl,like a virgin..deeply honored and very seriously protected as he gave me very brief information on their role..it was the last I heard from him verbally for over a decade and even then a few words only stretching the time again to another decade an only very briefly..as he turned back to watching with a fierce,noble expression that said to any and all who would rise up against me..Do not come any closer or you will deal with me!I cannot express how deeply I have appreciated this establishing of holy boundaries as designed by the Father for me to help guide me in understanding..I was not to look to the angels for company..Jesus would be my guide.

It was after this event that I was even more different,although with God I feel as though I am being born anew every morning.He was comtinually changing me..one difference was I began to speak in tongues and my prayers were powerfully answered my roomate who before had not had a clear or on key lovley voice, althougnh she loved to worship..I'd taught her to play guitar and asked God to give her a voice others could bear so she could lead worship wherever she went..He did it immediately..she was so happy..ahh I love being able to gift others as God leads..she was such a fine friend.. believed my story of this visitation without a single flicker of doubt..after all wasn't she the one who'd witnessed the miracle with my son in Waimea Bay only afew weeks before..when he'd tried to follow her out to where she was swimmimg her laps across the bay drowned and Jesus appeared to him as He sunk beneath the waves..with her 6 -7 minuteds away swimming hard..oh yes,..the Lord had warned me at home..so I prayed for their protection and He tappeed her on the shoulder AS SHE STROKED OBLIVIOUSLY ACROSS THE BAY THINKING THAT 4 HOURS WAS SURELY ENOUGH FOR ANY YOUNG BOY TO BE IN THE OCEAN..SURELY HE'D OBEY HER AND NOT GO IN WITH OUT HER..oops hit the caps lock..she was only 18.They both told me this marvelous story when they got home her eyes wide and full of wonder at how He had saved her the agony of having to tell me she had lost my son,by appearing to Him before He appeared to me..speaking to my son under the water where he was drowning..telling him not to be afraid..that He Jesus would save him..reaching down and grasping him by the feet rocketing him straight out of the water high up into the air where a man swimming by testifies he saw him flying and dropping into the waves close to him..in which He proceeded to swim my boy into the beach where she had found a lifeguard and wer3e just entering the waves to look for him..they pump0ed blood and water from his lungs..this is another amazing story of the love of God and His answer to our prayers for protection for our little ones when we can not be there to watch over them.

Yes it was a season for soveriegn miracles.God was teaching us all about the infilling of the Holy Spirit at that time in our fellowship,but not all recieved it dramaticaly..some not at all.I remember the folks who were frustrated in their attempts to recieve..I do not know for certain if this has anything to do with it..the Lord is gracious,merciful and very much willing to forgive..but He is also Just and sees all thoughts and intents of our hearts..i have found Him to very protective..very protective indeed..the Spirit of truth does not find pleasure when man refuses to honor what He in Truth has done. when I shared this for the first time I saw the reaction of my pastor as all these facial expressions moved one by one across his face and how when i finished all the church that had turned around to liten as i sat at the very back row on the aisle,all looked away as one in one movement..they remided me of the red sea parting all heads on the left turned to the left simutaneously and those on the right to the right..simultaneously.Like the red sea..i remember thinking..and then He(Jesus) in His mercy sealed my pastor's reaction away from me until a few years ago,right before I was to pass through the area where he now had a multimillion dollar mega church on the other side of the island..I'd seen him on the news from a different island,an angry and bitter man..then later again angrily asserting that "I don't believe anyone in this century has ever seen Jesus!" Wow! He's stuck! He got stuck on that one event of mine..why was he still railing against this truth?..I thought..poor man..and prayed for him..again saw I him explaining to the public on tv some turmoil that his church was having in the leadership..the inability to get along..back biting and troubles..this is what I remember happening within the little fellowship more and more after I shared this so long ago.I'd visited the little fellowship and was glad to see the love restored there..most of the elders strong and clear..though not doing demons or the the gifts..but serving faithfully in the way they were comfortable.Non Of my business beyond that..they are his flock..my brehtren..I am called to love and do what He says.I still give thanks for the teaching that was used to help me grow and the love that was there for me..Chuck Smith,contributed a great deal to this fellowship's learning.He came to visit a few times a year..I listened to his tapes at home.I enjoyed learning from his style of teaching..though I am not one who believes in pretrib rapture..the foundation he helped to lay is one I am most grateful for.

I mention this because there is a cost in obeying God and in moving forward when others hold back from fear ,envy or jealousy or suspicion. After this time of sharing with my fellowship,though I never saw it until later..praise God for being made innocently oblivious,I was treated with love by some to my face but much of the leadership and some of the more lazy souls had turned against me in their hearts.Men came into the fellowship only to try and get close to me and I was so unaware. I fell briefly for a few days.. later weeping and repentant having being thrown out of a house group of sisters only and left the place where I'd had to stay to walk down the road to my next divine appointment(anohter wonderful sory of how God is so watchful and restores us the moment we are able to come to our senses..and onward with my walk with Jesus..I was given charge of younger sisters whose parents left them on the island for school and fellowship..and babysat the married's children hosting a singles meeting on wed nite..wher we only sang and ate and talked of the things of God,writing songs together..some of the singles were so on fire! This was so fun! My desire to do all the things that Jesus said caused alot of trouble for me..especially when it became known that I was intersted in casting out demons..very funny stories here..there were so many on the island who were tormented like this..the old folks home were we went after sunday service to sing was riddled with folks so terribly bound..I made alot of people in my fellowship very uncomfortable with my faith and zeal..This has never changed..no matter where I go.

The baptism of the Holy Spirit does not mean we are never going to fall or sin..I became stronger when I was able to identify how my traumatic experiences of the past had affected the emotional part of my soul.But this came in my 30's when I was stable..more protected as the wife of one husband from the unwanted trials of too many men thinking God had told them I was to be their wife.Instead other challenges pushed me to desire total healing for all the things that God had been holding onto so I could grow strong enough to be able to face them without being thrown off course.It is God's full intention that we be healed and whole and sound..fearless and free!

I confess I was afraid to tell this story..tried to just watch and pray..thinking this would not be welcome and I did not have to not contribute to this thread.Jesus kept telling me He wanted these stories told..but I did not know how or when.

I have not written of the visitation since the day I took the drama/literature essay when I took the GED tests to get my high school equivalency at 44 yrs old. I aced the test..I think they loved my essay.If I could freely write in then..why not here?

As I struggled for the courage to write,I wept from deep down..it felt so wrong for me to hide this away..it felt like betrayal..as though I was saying,I am not willing to experience the dissaproval again..the rejection that may arise..saw that in this type of drawing back I am not acting in faith..I am acting as if I did not know you,Lord..like Peter who sat at the fire warming himself watching from as close as he dared to go..and then betrayal..and the cock crowing..I felt as though he were standing ther looking as waffled.I do know Him..I will proclaim what He has done for me..I can share it without censure.Jesus,I do know what You did for me to baptize me this second way..and although You will do this differently for each and everyone, my testimony is valid and true even if I'd sometimes prefer Smith Wigglesworth's,always an inspiration or Moody's testimony for it's simple brevity..but as many may have noticed, my testimonies are seldom brief..some will enjoy the way I write and others will not. Know I am presenting it in obediance as the event I was given when I recieved the infilling from the One who promised..He said He would give it to us..He promised..so don't be like the doubting brothers who balked when Mary Magdelene came to tell of what she saw,of Who she saw..the Ressurection and the Life.

Frank..I was thinking about how this story ties into the fear that comes over some.. when they begin to ask for this..or learn of it's validity, who have never really given up control of their life..actions..words..thoughts,everything in everyway that God asks them..in His timing and way of revealing His will to us who believe..no matter what point/stage we are at in our walk.None of us has arrived..He will be working on us until His return.
The flesh resists this baptism because it is the power to deliver us from the bondage of sin's operation in our lives..it causes us to become much more bold and abandoned to God's will.We must be emptied to be filled..we musst be,being filled.I really felt He was saying it is this fear that they do not know what God is going to do with them, holds them back from praying for this with all that is in them..for instance..they might be thinking,I do not want to be made low to walk the streets preaching like some wild eyed fanatic..or to have to give all I own and follow you. etc and so on as can vary from soul to soul..man does mot like to not be in control..it is a very vulerable place for some...let us bind up this fear,using the auhtority God has given us.. in knowing it is Christ who offers us this wonderful Gift..Himself within as the Holy Spirit dynamically explosive.What have you got to lose?Only your life that you might find it.

Blessing abound to all..and may we all rejoice greatly at this wonderful time of remembrance ..His death and ressurection!Glory!

Suddenly,with a flash! My spirit was taken out of my body and was very near the ceiling..maybe even above it as it was not a very high ceiling at all..and from the place where I'd been thrust I could see the Lord Jesus and some other beings that looked like angels standing all around the room. at first these did not interest me..this was Jesus!He was looking back at me serious and solemn..allowing me my focus,staring as I tried to make out His every feature to memorize it..but the light was so very bright around Him..more golden round His Head and whiter from His robe where His Body was but changing to a different hue as it spread out over the room.I remembered singing 'How i want to see your face and here He was!He was patient but soon stopped me from staring or I would probably have seen nothing else but this Face!

Truth be told, all this is very hard to take seriously, sister. Reading this and further into the post it seems you've been granted visions with a magnitude on par with a that of a Daniel or John on Pathmos. I'm not naysaying either way, just expressing...well, honest surprise. All these things you write of are difficult to take in and accept at face value. It reads and sounds like something out of a Bill Wiese book.

There are many very sound (doctrinally) brothers and sisters who read on SI, who dare not even post, for fear of being made to fight their corner in a word-battle.

Care to name a few? This all, of course, depends on what you deem "doctrinally sound". I am tempted to bring up some of your older posts, Linn, to show these people what your idea of sound doctrine can be. If you don't approve of my moderating skills or doubt my doctrinal integrity, please notify Greg Gordon.

Many of u all on this site are vicious! U Mr. West, is it even necessary?

My post was not at all meant to be vicious. There is a history that goes back, a history you may not be aware of. I'm not going to divert this thread. If you have any concerns, please PM me or any of the other moderators.

Thanks!

only two things are important right now and that's to love God with all our heart and our neighbor as ourself. So at this point I think it would be well pleasing to God if we just recognize the fact that we all are sincere even if we are sincerely wrong

Amen, very good word. I sincerely apologize for anything I said that may have been construed as hurtful. I have nothing but love for Dorcas, and everyone else who posts here, but we do need to uphold soundness and order. Remember, I didn't say Destiny's vision was fake or real or whatever (how should I know what she saw) - but I was and am skeptical of anyone who openly and elaborately describes their personal extra-biblical visions indiscriminately both on internet forums and in the the pulpit of God.

The only one I believe (at face value) is Paul the Apostle, and even then, he speaks of "a man" he once knew who saw the visions and heard the sounds. Blessed humility.

I was and am skeptical of anyone who openly and elaborately describes their personal extra-biblical visions indiscriminately both on internet forums and in the the pulpit of God.

Yes, agree wholeheartedly and believe this was also that which was brought forth by Krispy, caution is the word not extremes one way or the other.

The only one I believe (at face value) is Paul the Apostle, and even then, he speaks of "a man" he once knew who saw the visions and heard the sounds. Blessed humility.

This jumped first thing to mind and further .. [i] How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.[/i]

We do need to recognize where we are and what is happening all around us in this confused day we live in. And we need to recognize it here, in this setting, in this forum. There is a check and balance that is helpful and healthy as Frank well points out;

If you share something that contradicts Scripture, then I would reject that. My life is based soley on Jesus, His Word and His Holy Spirit. And They have enabled me to have a relationship with my Heavenly Father. I have avoided my own particular testimony , which is quite dramatic(not my Baptism in the Holy Spirit) because it would be a distraction to the subject at hand. The deeper my relationship with the Lord, the less I want to talk about myself, unless it is glorifying to Him

Well said brother. To come back along side Krispy for the moment and borrow that Tozer expression about the 'dead crow' from our past collective experience in these things, it wouldn't be just one but many strewn about the field. It is where we are in this age, a greater measure of checks and testing. Whole cult followings have developed off of visions and prophecy and just about anything under the sun. No need to berate this too much but would hope that all would fully grasp the good reasons for testing ... there shouldn't be any surprise or reasons for going to extremes or accusations.

A bit more than necessary I am sure, but it is a good posting that Frank has brought about. The mention of "And They Found The Secret" earlier is a very challenging and excellent, scriptural accounting of this which our brother Frank has brought forth here. Have been through it a couple of times, glad for the mention, will take it up once again. Just to try and put this back on track.

This is an important subject and I refuse to be diverted by people "running aorund screaming the house is on fire." There is no mess here, there is no viciousness here, what is here is an attempt to take our eyes of the subject. I again ask for anyone who has had a seperate and distinct experience, what we are calling the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, to share that and how it has changed and effected their lives.

Again, well said. Probably could have just left it at that.

Personly ... Do not know how I might even begin to unwind the thoughts but think I also see some of what EJG stated earlier about distinctions or lack of them, maybe I am thinking in terms of 'dramatics' .. at the moment it's muddled, feeling the effects of the days wear and tear, thoughts are tired.

John, Daniel and Ezekiel and Enoch must have read Bill Wiese's book!

We should always be slow to judge in a word or deed when someone tells us something miraculous concerning visions and dreams.

Paul had visions and revelations and we receive from him hook line and sinker without any further ado.

Hi Compliments,

Those of us who receive the baptism of the holy Spirit and speak in tongues and prophecy and move in the gifts of the Spirit and callings, is it from God or men?

I'll answer that. The [i]genuine[/i] Baptism of the Holy Spirit is of God, [i]genuine[/i] gifts and tongues and visions and prophecies and miracles are of God. But not all that glitters is gold, and not all tongues, miracles, gifts, prophecies and visions are from God. We've even seen this on SermonIndex recently. Much of what we see today and interpret as [i]Holy Ghost moving[/i] is wrought by soul power and not at all of the Spirit of God. But can you discern as such?

That's the real question for today.

Lisa wrote
I can relax, today is not the day, I can just focus and worship the Lord!!"

I was standing with hands lifted worshipping and I began to feel warmth start downward on my body at my finger tips. The only explanation is that it felt like warm honey being poured over me. When it got to my elbows, I could feel the warmth start on my head. It was beautiful. And it proceeded down to my feet and when the warmth got to the bottom of my feet, it felt like it bounced and started back up a whole lot faster than it went down and then when is was going up my neck, I began speaking in other tongues.

It is hard to put an experience on paper. Even a video cant capture the anointing.
I remember sitting in Times Square church when Carter Colan decided to attack the Laughing revival.
I had already been blessed beyond words in numerous meetings with the laughter present.

Now we aren't talking skepticism ,we are talking connecting the laughter 100% to the devil.
Another example is Benny Hinn. He is compared to the worst of the demons.
I have attended his meetings and been in unbelievable anointing and glory. Saw incredible miracles.

To ascribe satan to the working of the Holy Spirit is costly.....extremely costly.

I cannot and will not do it.

To separate the anointing and power of the Holy Spirit from Jesus or diminish healing or raising the dead is like steadying the ark.
It is sin against God's power.

David

My question Paul is this, do you have such manifestations of the gifts of the Spirit in the church that you go to?

I go to an AG church, so yes, there are messages in tongues every so often. But I'll tell you this with open honesty: I am not convinced it is God every time. I've noticed a Pentecostal pattern: tongues don't usually manifest until there is a stirring by music. I don't know how it is in your assembly, but my general experience with Spirit-filled churches has been such. Many times the tongue-messages are given after or during praise-and-worship and no one will interpret...and so the Pastor will step up and give an interpretation to keep the meeting in order. The interpretations normally go along these lines: "God knows you are seeking Him. He loves you. He would encourage you that He is here, and if you seek for Him with all your heart you'll find Him" etc. Something you can pull of the cuff if needed. Soft and accomodating and reassuring, but never a profound exhortation where your spirit is lifted to the portals of glory in the awareness that God the Holy Ghost is in the sanctuary speaking.

I'll be totally open with you: I'm a believer who prays in tongues and who has witnessed miracles and healings and gifts...but I am extremely skeptical nowadays for what goes on in our churches. I believe 99% of what we experience comes from the effects of hightened soulish emotion and not God. But God lets us have our services, our tongues and interpretations, our Spirit Baptisms that aren't genuine, and each time we willfully close our eyes to the counterfeits we incapacitate ourselves to further discernment. So God lets us have our laughter, our rolling around, our bogus tongues that are nothing but arbitrarily strewn-together syllables of gibberish fueled by soul (mostly pumped-up by loud, surging music). This is not God; it's the power of soul. It's a dynamic substitute for the real thing [i]which we do not have because the price is too costly.[/i]

There are true tongues and gifts and there are true Spirit Baptisms, but such genuine manifestations are scarce. I think 90% or more of people claiming to be Spirit Baptized are not truly. They maybe mumbled a few words at the altar one time in their life, some minister layed hands on them, maybe they fell down...and now they're banking on that experience. The parallel is a person saying a sinner's prayer as an experience for salvation. But how many people who claim to be saved are truly born-again of the Holy Spirit?

I would like to avoid the subjects that Psalm 1 shared, I believe that it is of topic but of course Psalm 1 can post a topic on that subject and start a conversation. I would not like to see a flood of Pro or anti Benny Hinn or the laughter movement. I believe that has been discussed ad naseum.......................Frank

This seems a fair request. Threads often taken on their own tangents or sidetracks, it's understood ... Frank is correct this has been discussed just about to death. Dig through the archives and draw up an old post if you wish to discuss these matters, let this one run to it's own question and purpose.

I would like to join this conversation, not to be critical but to share some personal observations. This secondary experience of the Baptism of the Holy Ghost opens the door to the supernatural of God in a powerful way. That is not to say that God does not move in great ways in those who believe otherwise. But there is such a distinct difference in the lives of those so baptized. It's as if the crossing of that threshold (with the evidence of speaking in tongues) stirs up within the believer a blazing fire. The gifts of the Spirit begin to operate in the believer's life more frequently and confidently. Yet it is the responsibility of the believer to be knowledgeable as to the authority of the Word and the protocol the Holy Spirit requires in various situations. It is a journey and much needs to be learned.

I have tried to be careful to study the Word to not be in error and hurt others in the process. But there has been at least one occasion when the church I was in professed belief in the gifts, but when the Spirit moved they felt very uncomfortable. Do we sin by not saying what the Spirit prompts, or do we "take the chance" and be obedient and trust that the Spirit will advance all of us as we push forward? The balance always is love: "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but have not love, I only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal."

Amen to all that you said, dear brother Paul!!!

Dear Appolus,

I am glad to reply to your request regarding the Baptism. The first time I came on this site and asked for information regarding the Baptism, there were a lot of arguments between the saints. It is rather offputting and I did not feel much like joining in after that experience, and became one of those people that vist from time to time and just look on.

However, I see that you are truly desirous to receive testimony of "experience" of God and I am quite delighted to give you mine.

I received the Baptism in the Holy Spirit 2 years after I was baptised in water and 4 years after I began to believe. After I was baptised in water I desperately sought "tongues" as I was in a pentecostal church and most everyone sang or spoke in their heavenly language. I was recommended to another pentecostal church mainly because they had a great deal of knowledge of the gifts and of the works of the enemy, and I needed a lot of help as I was constantly being attacked in a physical way by the enemy due to my past involvement in things of an occult nature. These beings simply did not want to let go, I was constantly hounded and they could communicate with me, and seemed to know a great deal about me. At this time, I believed but my faith was weak. I did not speak of Jesus to people, I had no real power over sin in my life and I always seemed to be struggling in my Christian life.

Whilst at this little church, we prayed 4 nights a week in the church building, but on our own, singly, in the pews. Afterwards we came together as a group and shared, prayed together as a group and spent time together. My then pastor felt I really need the gift of tongues for my edification due to the continuous physical attacks I was receiving from the enemy. Twice the enemy tried to cut off my breathing, it was so scary. I was very scared during this time.

I continued asking for the gift of tongues. Then one night, as I was quietly praying alone to the Lord, in the pew, but with others around also doing the same, the pastor came up and quietly sat next to me, didn't say a word. I had just quietly asked once again of the Lord that I might receive this gift.

Then I began to worship out loud to the Lord, and as my pastor sat quietly beside me, suddenly a great warmth came all over me from the top of my head to the bottom of my feet and at the same time out of my mouth came the most beautiful language I had ever heard. It was flowing freely. I was overwhelmed and felt the whole of heaven had come down upon me. I prayed like this all night long in my new language to the Lord. I had asked for the tongues, and received them, but as I learned later, I had been baptized in the Holy Spirit because from that point on a great confidence came over me. I could speak the name of Jesus freely with no embarassment, I had a great desire to share with others all the things the Lord was doing in my life. I had no fear of coming before a crowd and giving testimony, it seemed to me I was quite excited to do so! Whereas before I had a fright of speaking in public and would not do it! But now, it was so different. I wanted to devour the word of God, rather than simply get comfort from it due to being in a position of struggling all the time. And I began to fall in love with our wonderful Saviour. It is the most wonderful, most beautiful thing that we have been given. Let us be willing to experience our God and receive all that He has for us. It is the most exciting life isn't it?

I later learned that when my pastor had come over and sat with me he was praying silently for me to receive this gift, at the exact time I was praying for the same thing.

Previously I had a little fear over receiving this gift as I believed it might be the enemy taking over me, but God had fixed it so that the pastor was there with me and I knew it was for real. There was no mistaking the change in my attitude and behaviour and the great confidence I felt in the Lord. I cannot remember the exact date I believed (it was a process) but I know exactly by this wonderful experience when I was baptized in the Holy Spirit. I actually felt like I had become a brand new person, whereas before it was just words I tried to believe that said I was a new creature in Christ.

I truly believe that it was at that moment I was born again, because everything changed from that point.

God Bless you all.
Linda

On the diversities of tongues..
I began 1st speaking in tongues and as I said..it was like a bubblingstream of water..musical even. But as I was faithful to stir up the gift within,in time I found that there was diversities in tongues in operations..often alone I would be speaking in French..sometimes in a mixture of languages..I mostly sing spontaneously in the Spirit and would find that a beautiful heavenly language(an actual powerful divine language) pours forth and then an interpretation. this can go on for hours..prayer for the body of Christ interpersed in intercession with real prophecy that comes to pass. This is part of our inheritance.We can and do operate this way. After over two decades of this more mature tongues,they become very distinct, sometimes in French,Spanish and Hebrew..different Asian dialects I've never learned naturally..others that I do not recognize but they seem to come from around the area that I,moving in unison with the Holy Spirit,am praying for. My old roomate..who went on to smuggle bibles with bro Andrew shortly after that,she relayed the Gospel message using this type of tongues in another language.I have never done this,once have I heard a brother say recently..that was Italian you were singing in,though I never got the chance to ask what he heard.One time a brother said..you are singing a scottish dirge...someone I knew had died and this was heavy on our hearts..but I've never learned scottish or any dirges.( a funeral song?)I say this to speak of the difference in regards to her speaking the gospel to a japanese couple who did not speak english and what I am talking about here.I had a recorder for a while when I first began to check out my gift to see if I was being used by something bad..i was willing to be shown if I'd been compromised somehow..I am not perfect..Jesus is..so I recorded what was being prayed for a while..Wow..it was definitely not evil..as I thought..but is not beneath me to check ..it was inspiring..each time I listened I heard more and more of the word as if it opened up dimensionally..but I do not know if you can understand what I mean here..but having done this I am not led to do it any longer being satisfied that what I am doing is truly of The One True God....but the diverse ways that God speaks here is not milk and for many of you I am not going to go any deeper because you must be willing to even believe for the promise itself..not because of what you will be doing but because He has said this is what He has for you,a very strengthening,edifying and empowering gift of the Holy Spirit.

God has said in His word through Paul...diversities of tongues. it is clear to me that He did not go into much detail on these diversities of tongues because He was still learning about it and did not want to give them more information than they needed being newbies at it..somewhat irresponsible and unlearned.Some things are mysterious because God likes it that way..He does not desire people to have a pat know-it-all answers for everything,nor does He want man to be able to explain the exact workings of the laws of the universe..the laws of love and liberty being the highest laws of the kingdom.Because if you are not being perfected in love..you will be used for evil..causing great problems due to lack of mercy and compassion. For very obvious reasons God hides this from man..from most men..due to the nature of man.God does not have to explain Himself..nor prove Himself.I explain what I am allowed to because I love you and do not want you to misunderstand or fear and become blocked in your growth and developement.

I do not do any of these things soulishly,in the flesh..and not always with music..I do not carry my guitar around everywhere and I can pray anywhere especially in tongues and not ever exclusively in a building where people are gathering to worship and fellowship.I have complete freedom in this..but would not do it loudly in a place where they do not know me..out of respect and true protocal until I learn their particular church'culture'.Any prophetic word would be written and given to the pastor..inobtrusively,if I were a guest visitor.He would discern whether it should be shared. these gifts are not at all emotional although the words and tones that come forth vary..resembling at times great compassionate gentle kindness all the way through the full spectrum of tone and inflection to intense and powerful warfare type dealing with darkness.I am often quite astounded with the interpretations as to how strengthening it is to hear the Holy Spirit praying first this way and the exact thing being interpreted same tone and all..it is not a game..it is serious business. The Father's business.The comfort and encouragement is serious too! The gift has grown along with me..this is what I am trying to say..all these gifts grow as we do..sometimes it is halting at first...as we die to the fact that it is us being used in the operations of the gifts,they seem to increase,flow more readily , as we show ourselves available,willing,He gives us more.

To those who operate in these diversities of tongues,you will know this for a certainty..there is some of this,what is being said and done in the Spirit that is not to be shared as it has to do with God's strategic counsel..like showing the enemy the battle plans..it is not to be lauded about.the Holy Spirit through /with us is doing far more than the nonparticipant will ever know about unless told..we are in a very serious time folks..we are a heavenly priesthood,a peculiar people,very serious indeed...speaking directly about what Frank is trying to prepare your hearts for..we are peaceful warriors.Praise Gods that He keeps it light enough to handle..He makes it easy.If He didn't...we would certainly be crushed under the weight of it all.

Fact: I am unable to learn and remember other languages due to what appears to be somekind of disability..I have taught myself to read music..typing..but it won't stay in my mind..I cannot remember it later..it dissappears.This happens with mathematics too..I am also somewhat dyslexic with numbers and typing. 3 different times each I have tried to 'learn' typing and music,naturally..other languages too because my mother is a linguist..music.,so I could write down the melodies I hear so others can hear what I hear and typing so I would not take so long to write on this keyboard,transposing letters etc...having to take 5-6 hrs to write out something as relatively short as what I shared with y'all earlier..the proofreading is laborious...but some things just won't catch hold. He says I remember exactly what I'm supposed to..no more and no less. However, when I pray in these other languages..it is as though my understanding is also awake and hearing what is being prayed..then when the interpretation follows it is like.. oh..I knew that,it is what my spirit was 'hearing'.Very encourageing and edifying.
In Courage..boldly confident in what Christ wants to do in me,through me..for others..for us all.

These things ought to be discussed as openly and as honestly as God gives us leave. We each are so uniquely made..yet not so very different from each other or we would not be able to reach the hurting or the unlearned..we would not be able to get across to one another what God would have us share..we all do not learn the same way..we are not given the exact lessons in the same order.We are so important to each other..each one just the way God is forming His Son in us.God says we are all extremely precious..we ask Him to allow us to see everyone through His eyes..and He will..He does. Sometimes I think people forget how incredibly creative our God really is..and the fact that He is still creating all the time..He likes variety..diversity..He created it. Look at all of us..He made us too..He is in charge of what we experience in Him. We are not clones.We are uniquely made.Fearfully and wonderfully made.

This morning,after reading in the Word for a long while,Listening to what the Spirit would say to me as I do in the beginning of each day, I began to pray silently and then to speak in tongues and the word that came out was 'Messiah'..Messiah! for starters..I'd been thinking about how some would have had difficulty with what I'd shared on this post..some do..this is why I explained it the way I did..perhaps you are not used to my kind of openess..perhaps you do not understand that I have overcome great obstacles..terrible things of which no one should have to suffer.These things have no power to hurt me due to forgiveness..forgiveness amazing wonderful forgiveness! I rejoice that I have been able to lead so many out of the bodage of fear and the terror of being brutalized..God brings me many who have suffered more than most..because I have the victory that they need..and the ability to get across to them what they need to know. I know it was Him who directed me to share what I did..would I cast my pearls carelessly about...i would hope i am more mature than this..but I am still a child at heart. I do not consider you to be swine..or dogs..you are my brethren..I am a fool for Christ..but my feelings aren't hurt..I did not react at all upon reading all the threads that followed. I am joyfull and full of peace. What Frank(appollus) rightly discerned was that it was difficult for me to push past the resistance I knew would follow.I can feel resistance to God's will working in the lives of many of my brethren...in the life of any who I come in contact with..we are given the ability to discern this as well..it is no new thing..I am not suprised at the responses..pleased with all..we should not swallow anything everyone says..we need to take it to the Father for discernment!We have the logos and the rhema Word. Amen!I know for certain that Jesus Christ and Him crucified and Resurrected is what makes anything about me interesting or profound..it is a profound thing that He is Alive,lives in me and can do whatever He chooses to do..I am nothing, but He does what He does for His purposes not ours. He is the Treasure in this earthen vessel. I know this ..He knows I know this. If there is granduer anywhere it is where He is and in what He has done and is still doing. We have nothing to fear.He is perfecting us in love..He is being formed in us..we are believers!

I have always believed that we could do the same things as the apostles of the first century church..always figured we were supposed to..maybe I was just naive,simple minded..but I was given a gift of faith..a gift of faith..to believe for the impossible..and yes I know there are many false counterfeits today..I have also sought God about all the visions and dreams and experiences that I have ever had..spent the last few yrs going over everything with a fine tooth comb..God is a rewarder of those who dilligently seek Him.I would not share anything that I was not 100% clear about..unless I was asking for help in discerning.My testimony stands with or without your acknowledgement..it does not need your validation..it is a gift to you..recieve it or do not. If you would have peace one way or the other..this is simple..ask the Father,you have bold access to the Holy of Holies through the Blood..His Cross ..He will tell you..I can quarantee He will not allow you or me to be decieved..just remember this..you must desire truth,love truth more than your own thought processes..more than your own personal agenda for or against, if you are to truly be able to discern..we can have the gift of discernment as mentioned in the gifts as well.I have been asking for this specifically for many years due to the nature of God's calling on my life..it has seemed crucial.something that I could not be without.Just remember what He said to his disciples about those who did things differently..forbid them not..leave them alone! those who are not against you are for you..we are all one in Christ here..we build up ..we do not tear down that which is foundational..Jeus founded the infilling..He preached on it first and foremost..it is His Gospel given to Paul to spread openly..we can do no less. We pray for the gift of discerning of spirits.

Being given this much needed discernment for myself regarding all things as needed to be made whole..not wanting to believe anyhting that wa snot of God..no matter how supernatural it was..I have been decieved before..I am no stranger to this type of thing.I have dilligently sought God for the truth regarding my entire lifes experiances and was shown throughout the Word types of similar experiences in both the old and new testaments for most all of the unusual things God has done in my life..why He decided to do these for me..or through me will remain to be seen..I personally am humbled by it all.It all fits together when you can see the whole picture and know what I have been throughfor the sake of knowing the truth..of bringing the gospel to the weak and afflicted,though He may have hidden it from the mainstream compromised church was totally fine with me..we do not share to show off we report in ..it is like being debriefed after a serious assignment..if any of you can relate..why would He do all the things He does if only to keep it a total secret..He does not..word travels as does any good news.He does not cease from doing whatever He wants to.I do not limit Him.

I am also warned that if I remain silent when the Body needs to know that God does much more than many are allowing themselves to believe..due to the fear of the enemy's schemes, this very resistance to the hearing about the Almighty God's real movement upon us and others to whom we are ministering,this resistance is oftimes unbelief..refusal to go first to God the Father before deciding is doubt taken to extremes and is a big part of his Satan's plan..if you never move out in faith believing..he has you right where he wants you..not doing anything..when was the last time you shared Jesus effectively with a stranger..it ought to have been the last time you left your home..whose time do you operate on ..His or yours?

I will be held accountable,for to whom much is given ,much is expected..this serves to fill me with holy fear of the responsibility I have to you all..I take this very seriously,as ,I can see, do you. What ever God Chooses to Do in my life has nothing to do with me per se,it is God, the Father,revealing the Son,in the lives of His helpless without Him believers. I feel very much astonished at His faithfulness and blessings..I am unworthy except that His Blood covers all my sin and His Spirit lives in me.

As I've written before, I was working for a season on finding alot of false visions and dream interpretations on the internet..and praying over this problem when I asked for help here on SI months ago..I recieved varied replies..the best was patience..I took this to heart and continued on ,watching over the sites I was shown to..pointing out certain things to mostly the youth who were posting dreams being misinterpreted by cult like elders of questionable ministries..some recieved and some I am only allowed to pray for now..it was an intense season,difficult and painful for me to look into these things that were so obviously carnally inspired..malicious and soulish.Basic truth discarded for the fleshly agreement of the majority.It caused me to stumble when I looked too long and too deeply causing a wrong spirit to glom onto me..oppressing me,robbing me of my joy..the easy yoke of Jesus..this oppression has been lifted..Praise God!I no longer feel the need to warn everyone about this..I am back to what I am best at..encouraging others onward..forward..in building up the faith of others where it is lacking.

God wants His saints filled to overflowing..He keeps speaking about having made us fishers of men..how the baptism of fire (Acts chapter one should be enough proof for anyone who follows Jesus that this was His command)made me a witness.. a bold effective witness of the Gospel of Christ. A soul winner!Also, it changed the way I prayed..I no longer leaned on my own understanding but rather prayed according to the will of God,by the spirit and I pray continuously,effortlessly..and these prayers avail much, in that they are answered..an unmistakable difference.I'm not one to ask much of anything for myself except to know and love Him and others more deeply and to be given the ability to do His will..not to be a hearer only but a doer. I ask Him to fill me with His spirit daily..His mercies are new every morning..He generously fills us to overflowing so that wewill spill out all over everyone who crosses our paths..whether we are only praying for them,able to see their needs or engaging in conversation as God leads.God opens the doors no man can shut..but if you never go through the door you won't get anywhere. It is good to quote Paul..it is also good to live what Paul talked about. It is not just doctrine,dead through lack of works ..it is Living Word..a working out of God's will in us,not an unnattainable example but a simple outline of what to expect in our lives as well..I am sorry for those who have been taught differently..I believe you have been limited in a way that is nothing more than the devils scheme to make you no threat to his plans. This is the dispensation of the infilling of the Holy Spirit working in and through the church..the People of God..living stones..jointly fit together..Kathleen1 posted an 87 yr old saints works on the site..they had to be deleted,with links to go there,but this is what that post said as well..the Church Age is the dispensation of the Holy Spirit.We give thanks for God's provision.He knows our needs..shows us what to ask for..we mostly confuse what we want with what we think we need. One thing we all need or He would not have said so..this would be the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.

I share this in faith and in love for all..Blessings abound to you through His manifold grace.

It has been my experience, that good men, converted men, who try to walk out the Christian experience, apart from the Baptism of the Spirit, end up with a Romans 7 experience

Would hate to be too didactic with this, I understand what you mean but am wondering if putting this in a framework of ... past tense\\present tense as it seems the more common ideal is between the two unfortunate chapter breaks is really always so.

Still find that what Paul spoke of was that of a continuing aspect, not one traded out for the better or the other. Sorry if this seems muddled. The problem with a Romans 7 experience is that it keeps being experienced despite everything else. To be truthful I am not entirely clear or maybe convinced that we have repeatable shared experiences amongst ourselves. They may be in kind and even similar, my own short account would be the same night I repented in a drug induced but absolutely heart spilling, guttural cry out to the Lord that I was also filled with an unspeakable warmth that went through my whole body, a great peace and sense of love and of forgiveness ... I still look back on it in remembrance and in low states even pray for the comfort of that tremendous sensation from the Lord once again. But just as well, the odd thing is that this occurred on at least two other occasions prior yet I rejected that which I knew I would have to part with, my sin. It's multifaceted and hindsight could speak all kinds of different perspectives .. It may have been the Lord not giving up, seeing that he certainly set out after me alone, without preacher or witness, other than that which had been planted over a long period of time. It still boggles the mind just why. And as part and parcel of all this is also the fact that it would still be another year or so before I really began to delve into what all this meant, before I had a bible to study, a believing wife, a church to attend.

But, I did know that something tremendous had transpired and bit by bit my outlook began to change, the experience did shake me tremendously. The next day alone was impossible to just chalk it up as some .. imagination, some thing derived from the buzz of the night prior, it was well beyond it and I knew it. It is now the mark that I look back to, that it was that night, but at the time I hardly knew the half of what would follow, where it would all lead and where I know find myself.

Maybe what I am trying to put forth is that it seems the Lord will do as He pleases within what He has already revealed and even seemingly without, just not in contradiction to Himself, to His character. It has been an incredible pilgrimage and process, great times of breaking beyond my expression and times of His slight manifest presence when he is nearer ... in prayer and unexpectedly, with the saints in a subtle yet powerful way, at times here even cutting through our words.

It just seems to be a great mystery and paradox the tensions and varied experiences. I think it's wonderful, the variety and maybe it is just the fear that can be displaced when ... as an instance, the idea of holding firmly to 'evidence' as speaking in tongues as not one but [u]the[/u] evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit and the likely more common reality but less forthcoming instance of the mention of the sister who said she was faking it, for the same reasons.

That is where Krispy to bring him up again and myself, coming from where we were would have our guards up in many of these matters. I don't think I have gotten over the instance when 911 struck and the church I then attended went from weeping over the situation (many of us) to the suggestion that they would go on with their present subject; Speaking in tongues. The tact and timing of it all, and I was well embedded in the likes of the whole ... business of the WOF construct though beginning to have all kinds of turbulence and second guessing over it. But it went along the lines of manipulation and 'not quenching the Spirit' the suggestions to 'let yourself go' and soon there was a rabble of gibberish coming from probably 20 or more all at the same time with the pastor and wife (who was spear heading the whole thing) just caught up in it all. Praising the whole sorid mess. No interpretation nor order and it frankly seemed more demonic than just foolish or silly, especially at that time of national mourning. I was deeply grieved and my own wife picked up on the body language and was not at all happy with me. I walked out never to return again and it ended up in a big argument over the whole thing.

Not sure I got anywhere close to what I might have wanted to convey, maybe there is just more to all this than we know. I am still challenged by those that have had a greater experience that has launched them forth into greater realms of ministry and yet, also recognize the greater ministry that can be done in behind the scenes kinds of ways, quietly, unnoticed, without any great sensations or ... accounts that we might speak of here. Brethren that have had a harder road to toil and may be just as spirit filled and spirit lead as those that we might be more inclined to speak of. We just don't hear of them as much.

Appolus wrote:

I have experinced that same feeling, the Holy Spirit coming in, countless times since then.

Dear Appolus,

I have also experienced this same thing on different occasions, particularly when I have sensed the Lord wanted me to read out a particular scripture, and I was hesitant, wanting to be sure it was from Him. Once, it was before a church meeting of 300 and I had never seen this happen before in this church. However, in obedience I found that my voice had such a tone that it carried throughout the whole congregation. I am normally softly spoken.

One question. Are you saying that you received several Baptisms of the Holy Spirit as each time the Spirit came down on you to enable you to do what the Lord required? Or did you also have a one time Baptism of the Holy Spirit that changed you in such a way that you were emboldened in your life to proclaim the goodness of Christ, that you had not had before.

I ask in all humility, willing to be open to learn about the Lord's workings in our lives.

Linda

Dear Frank,

That is such an incredible testimony, it leaves me speechless.

Believe we are stating and sharing the same thing and I am reticent that my thoughts last night were muddled, something I need to recognize when there is fatigue to hold off ... Did take up reading "They Found the Secret" again and was struck by the account from A.J. Gordon, maybe it could be posted here or linked to. Have you read this book brother Frank? It's tremendous ...

Thank you for sharing that very personal account brother ... staggering.

Baptism in the Holy Ghost is an empowerment that comes on a believer in such a way that they are immediately filled with the Spirit and enabled to speak with glossolalias utterance and unction.

Glossolalia may be [i]one[/i] of the signs of being filled with the Spirit initially, but is it really wise to say it is the [i]exclusive initial[/i], as Pentecostals so adamantly purport? If this were true no prominent man or woman of God prior to 1903 or after was ever Spirit-Baptized and genuinely endued with the true "tarry in Jerusalem" power for ministry: this includes Moody, Murray, Ravenhill, Sparks, Finney, Wesley, Keith Daniel, Whitefield, George Fox, the early Moravian missionaries and any other man or woman of God you can think of whose ministry utterly staggered the world for Jesus Christ but didn't report glossolalia at their filling. Many of these, like William Booth and the early Salvation Army, had signs and wonders and power and miracles and prophecy and all the evidences of a Pentecostal Spirit-filled ministry we equate with speaking in tongues...and all before Charles Fox Parham in Topeka, KS and his "initial evidence" doctrine became denominationally vogue.

I contend from scripture that one [i]can and may[/i] speak in tongues at Spirit baptism if the Holy Spirit so sovereignly designs...but it cannot and should not be the all-inclusive litmus test. In the 5 places recorded in scripture of believers being Spirit baptized, only 3 record tongues at the initial occurence, and Paul's experience has no mention at all that he spoke in tongues at his baptism.

Just trying to keep things in balance here.

Brother, I have been and am being filled with the Spirit today and I thank God that I speak tongues. The only thing I am afraid of is the propagation of the narrow-minded doctrine of men. Many have been dissuaded from seeking Spirit Baptism because they are taught if they do not speak in tongues for the experience, the experience must not be genuine. My purpose here is to quash that error.

Every person who received the holy Ghost all spoke in tongues or prophesied.

Well hear is my two pence worth.

I believe that there is a second work of the Holy Spirit but I believe that there are none on this thread that has recieved it. What do I mean by second work. I mean the kind of work that Duncan Campell testifies about in his testimony.

A second work that cleanses and causes you to be Holy. A cleansing of sin in your life and a filling of the Holy Spirit so that your very precence in a room convicts people of there ungodly lifes.

appolus wrote:

As I stood there, frozen with fear, suddenly a warmth came over my head, like water flowing down but in slow motion. As it made its way down through me, the fear drained out ahead of it. It went all the way down my body , right down to my toes until I was standing there, filled, and all fear was gone. I reached up and put my hand on my fathers shoulder, who still had my mother by the back of the hair and was still punching her.

His head snapped round, and I found myself looking into the blackest eyes I had ever seen, but no fear was in me. As I looked into those eyes, I suddenly was looking into his soul and there was my real father, bound and gagged, lying on his side, a prisoner in his own soul. To that father I heard myself saying "I love you." That was it, that was all that was said. Suddenly I am back looking at his black eyes and this voice from his mouth said "I cannot argue with that," and it was gone. The atmosphere was gone, my warmth was gone and my father released my mother and sat down looking shell shocked.

Frank, I quoted this excerpt out of your testimony; every once in a while you read something that gets galvanized to your heart, and this is one of them.

I would give my own story of being baptized in the Holy Spirit, but by comparison with others I think it would be quite boring. And, thankful though I am for what I received, I just know it is short of the quality and intensity of the Baptism of Fire I read about in The Acts.

I do want to say, however, that I think this baptism is a vital and necessary milestone in our walk with the Lord... but we should not stop there. Paul calls it "the earnest of the Spirit," the down payment, the engagement ring, "unto the redemption of the purchased possession."

I have been in fellowship with people in days past who, they'd ask you, "Have you got The Baptism?" And the way they said it, if you had to answer no to that question, you were a kind of second class Christian to them.

Sad. They had but "the earnest," and felt they had arrived. I am not suggesting all who have this baptism are victims of that same pride. For how could anyone have the geniune thing without being deeply humbled?

The true evidence of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit is CHRIST in you. "He (the Holy Spirit) shall testify of ME..." (Jn. 15.26). And so ultimately, this must mean HIS OWN humility, grace, patience, love... manifested in us.

Jesus said, speaking of the coming of the Holy Spirit that those who believed on Him should receive, it would be like "rivers of living Water" (Jn. 7.38). Not a puddle experience, but an unceasing River. The Holy Spirit is a River, not a puddle.

I certainly know I am short of that River. I know something of the puddle experience. But an abiding, unceasing River flowing through my heart? Where is this?

Frank, I read in your first post of D.L. Moody's experience of the baptism. I remember reading of that same experience in a book by W. Graham Scroggie, The Land and Life of Rest. The way he described it, well, maybe I will just quote it from the book.

"And D.L. Moody bore witness once in Glasgow to such a crisis in his own life and ministry. He cried to God for power, and this, in his own words, is what happened.

"Well, one day in the City of New York, oh what a day! I cannot describe it; I seldom refer to it; it is almost too sacred an experience to name; I can only say, God revealed Himself to me, and I had such an experience of His Love that I had to ask Him to stay His hand.

"I went to preaching again. The sermons were not different; I did not present any new truths, and yet hundreds were converted. I would not be placed back where I was before that blessed experience if you would give me all of Glasgow."

I find that very arresting. He was seeking power, and God answered him with a baptism of Love. Holy Ghost love, if I could put it that way. The love of Christ revealed in the Holy Ghost.

And with that, he had the power.

...So, this is what I mean by saying that once in a while you read something that just becomes galvanized to your heart. There is something about this "Baptism of Love" that... there's a Power there we know little about.

There's something about the Love of God that... it can do what nothing else can do.

As in your experience, Frank, of the love of God that cast out the fear... "There is no fear in love."

And reached your father...

That really spoke to me.

And I've read of others who had this kind of "baptism" that brought them in touch with such a love of God... so overwhelming they had to ask God to stay his hand...

I remember reading of John Fletcher, who in the days of the Wesleys, had a similar experience, and asked God to stay his hand.

But later he regretted he had asked that, and felt he should have asked instead to have his vessel enlarged.

I am asking myself a question. Am I brave enough to say, God, I'm open: I want this kind of Baptism. The Baptism of Love. After a few years, I know what it's like to go through things, so... I don't ask lightly any more.

But I'm asking anyway, by His grace.

...God help any of us who have had a "second blessing" experience to know we just have our toes in the water.

Thanks,
AD

I have found this sermon series to be very he
lpful in describing the power of the annointing of the Holy Spirit in the life of the believer.

Denny Kenaston covers this truth very well...

http://www.charityministries.org/msg_detail.a5w?set_detail_SortColumn=1&set_detail_SortDir=Asc&vlast_index=SET117

In Christ
Jeff

Just bringing this up again...for the edification of the body in Christ.

http://www.charityministries.org/msg_detail.a5w?set_detail_SortColumn=1&set_detail_SortDir=Asc&vlast_index=SET117

There are varying views on the Baptism in the Holy Spirit, yet I trust that we all can come into one accord and believe that God has deeper levels of intimacy for all of us to attain to as we walk humbly before Him in humility.

Let us not state what this or that view is, but let us state that our view is fixed on the King alone, believing that His Spirit will overtake us in whatsoever manner is Biblical and Holy, leading us into all truth and Fulness, for the service of the Kingdom of God and the Glory of the Lord.