Was Wigglesworth serious?

This quote from him is a blessing;
But the Lord said, "Come out." Then I went into the Salvation Army. At that time it was full of life and there were revivals everywhere. But the Salvation Army went into natural things and the great revivals that they had in those early days ceased. The Lord said to me, "Come out," and I came out. I have had to come out three times since. I believe that this Pentecostal revival that we are now in is the best thing that the Lord has on the earth today, and yet I believe that God has something out of this that is going to be still better. God has no use for any man who is not hungering and thirsting for yet more of Himself and His righteousness.

The Lord has told us to covet earnestly the best gifts, and we need to be covetous for those that will bring Him most glory. We need to see the gifts of healing and the working of miracles in operation today. Some say that it is necessary for us to have the gift of discernment in operation with the gifts of healing, but even apart from this gift I believe the Holy Ghost will have a divine revelation for us as we deal with the sick. Most people seem to have discernment, or think they have, and if they would turn it on themselves for twelve months they would never want to discern again.

David

As I was reading further on this blessed me;

Where people are in sickness you find frequently that they are dense about Scripture. They usually know three scriptures though. They know about Paul's thorn in the flesh, and that Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake, and that Paul left someone sick somewhere; they forget his name, and don't remember the name of the place, and don't know where the chapter is. Most people think they have a thorn in the flesh. The chief thing in dealing with a person who is sick is to locate their exact position. As you are ministering under the Spirit's power the Lord will let you see just that which will be more helpful and most faith-inspiring to them.

When I was in the plumbing business I enjoyed praying for the sick. Urgent calls would come and I would have no time to wash, and with my hands all black I would preach to these sick ones, my heart all aglow with love. Ah, you must have your heart in the thing when you pray for the sick. You have to get right to the bottom of the cancer with a divine compassion and then you will see the gifts of the Spirit in operation.

David

With God ALL things are possible.

Most people seem to have discernment, or think they have, and if they would turn it on themselves for twelve months they would never want to discern again.

wow what a story...

;.......I was called at 10 o'clock one night to pray for a young person given up by the doctor who was dying of consumption. As I looked, I saw that unless God undertook it was impossible for her to live. I turned to the mother and said, "Well, mother. you will have to go to bed." She said, "Oh, I have not had my clothes off for three weeks." I said to the daughters, "You will have to go to bed," but they did not want to go. It was the same with the son. I put on my overcoat and said, "Good-bye, I'm off." They said, "Oh, don't leave us." I said, "I can do nothing here." They said, "Oh, if you will stop, we will all go to bed." I knew that God would move nothing in an atmosphere of mere natural sympathy and unbelief.

They all went to bed and I stayed, and that was surely a time as I knelt by that bed face to face with death and with the devil. But God can change the hardest situation and make you know that He is almighty.

Then the fight came. It seemed as though the heavens were brass. I prayed from 11 to 3:30 in the morning. I saw the glimmering light on the face of the sufferer and saw her pass away. The devil said, "Now you are done for. You have come from Bradford and the girl has died on your hands." I said, "It can't be. God did not send me here for nothing. This is a time to change strength." I remembered that passage which said, "Men ought always to pray and not to faint." Death had taken place but I knew that my God was all powerful, and He that had split the Red Sea is just the same today. It was a time when I would not have "No," and God said "Yes." I looked at the window and at that moment the face of Jesus appeared. It seemed as though a million rays of light were coming from His face. As He looked at the one who had just passed away, the color came back to the face. She rolled over and fell asleep. Then I had a glorious time. In the morning she woke early, put on a dressing gown and walked to the piano. She started to play and to sing a wonderful song. The mother and the sister and the brother had all come down to listen. The Lord had undertaken. A miracle had been wrought.

David

When I read of Smith Wigglesworth-- and others, like John G. Lake, Charles S. Price, others-- I feel at times torn inside.

I love to read these things, at times I feed on them, am inspired by them, filled with awe.

But then I feel torn. Where is it now, Lord?

Why must I always be reading about these things from another day or another place?

"We have heard with our ears, O God, our fathers have told us, what work Thou didst in THEIR days, in the times of old" (Ps. 44.1).

"...Awake, why sleepest Thou, O Lord? Arise, cast us not off for ever. Wherefore hidest Thou Thy face, and forgettest OUR affliction and OUR oppression? For our soul is bowed down to the dust; our belly cleaveth unto the earth. Arise for OUR help..." (Ps. 44.23-26).

AD

Why must I always be reading about these things from another day or another place?

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22771&forum=48&4

I can imagine how you feel. In these last days it is a time of great trouble. 1 Tim. 4:1 tells us many shall depart from the faith. Remember Elijah? 1 Ki. 18:19 God comforted him saying there are 7,000 who have not bowed the knees to Baal. I comfort you and say we are out here. we are called overcomers. Wigglesworth most important theme was faith. Not just saved but trusting God for everything. Pray God will bring them your way. Jesus is the same, yesterday, today, and forever. I had a girl who was possessed with demons reach me as I was delivering her, small cut on arm, God didn't let me feel anything. I have been in asick bed dying to almost death and the bible with me. God raised me up. The bible is my prized keeping. If you would like some good teaching to help you grow deeper see Dennis Schmidt bible papers. Once you start you just might miss supper ha ha ha. God bless in Jesus name.

look up to the message I left you above the next reply brodav9

AD Said..."But then I feel torn. Where is it now, Lord?
Why must I always be reading about these things from another day or another place?

Eagles fly alone bro. To do the things wigglesworth did is a bitter cup.

But....we can do it too!!!

David

Josef,

That's an excellent post! ... thanks for sharing.

I love this section here:

There's one way to the POWER of the RESURRECTION, and that is ONLY through the CROSS. You have to fall into the ground and die before you can bring forth lasting eternal fruit. It's a heavy price to pay, and there's no way around it. It means that one must EMBRACE as a way of life the SUFFERINGS of Christ, as Paul did, and die daily, truly, and I mean truly. And through this God will baptize one in anguish and with the burdens of His heart. Why did Wigglesworth pray with such compassion for the sick? Because He shared the heart of Jesus.

psalm1 wrote:
AD Said..."But then I feel torn. Where is it now, Lord?
Why must I always be reading about these things from another day or another place?

Thanks, Psalm1, and all who reached out with encouragement when they read my question here (above).

Heartsong, thanks for the link to the story of the miracle taking place in Ami Oritz. I hadn't read that before.

When I spoke of always reading of these things taking place in another time and another place, I forgot that the SI "place" is a little bigger than my own little locale in the earth.

It also encourages me to know that when God dries up something-- as He has largely done the ministries of the great healing evangelists that were so prominent in the last century (and maybe Smith Wigglesworth doesn't fit in this category anyway)-- and yes, I know, we do still see and hear of healings, even of men raised from the dead-- but what I am saying is I think God has dried up this kind of healing ministry centred in one "great" man, and it's only because He has Something even greater in mind... if we will get seeking Him for it in OUR generation.

If He didn't dry things up we would just camp there forever probably. And every time we were sick, call up Smith Wigglesworth, or John G. Lake, or...

But, He has Something greater in mind than this, Something greater than the GIFT OF healing, or the MINISTRY OF healing centred in one "great" man.

Something greater, so that we don't always have to be looking wistfully back, reading of wonderful things of a past day we missed out on, but instead, looking AHEAD to greater things.

Which, as the different ones here have shared, there is a cost to it.

"Remember ye not the former things, neither consider the things of old. Behold, I will do a NEW thing..." (Isa. 43.18).

Very encouraging words.

"For since the beginning of the world men have not heard, nor perceived by the ear, neither hath the eye seen, O God, beside Thee, what He hath prepared for him that waiteth for Him" (Isa. 64.4).

AD

this little priciple goes a long way;

......."The Lord is calling us along this way. I am thanking God for difficult cases. The Lord has called us into heart union with Himself; He wants His bride to have one heart and one Spirit with Him and to do what He Himself loved to do. That case had to be a miracle. The lungs were gone, they were just in shreds, but the Lord restored lungs that were perfectly sound.

There is a fruit of the Spirit that must accompany the gift of healing and that is longsuffering. The man who is going through with God to be used in healing must be a man of longsuffering. He must be always ready with a word of comfort. If the sick one is in distress and helpless and does not see everything eye to eye with you, you must bear with him. Our Lord Tesus Christ was filled with compassion and lived and moved in a place of longsuffering, and we will have to get into this place if we are to help needy ones.

There are some times when you pray for the sick and you are apparently rough. But you are not dealing with a person, you are dealing with the Satanic forces that are binding the person. Your heart is full of love and compassion to all, but you are moved to a holy anger as you see the place the devil has taken in the body of the sick one, and you deal with his position with a real forcefulness. One day a pet dog followed a lady out of her house and ran all round her feet. She said to the dog, "My dear, I cannot have you with me today." The dog wagged its tail and made a big fuss. She said, "Go home, my dear." But the dog did not go. At last she shouted roughly, "Go home," and off it went. Some people deal with the devil like that, The devil can stand all the comfort you like to give him. Cast him out! You are dealing not with the person, you are dealing with the devil. Demon power must be dislodged in the name of the Lord. You are always right when you dare to deal with sickness as with the devil. Much sickness is caused by some misconduct, there is something wrong, there is some neglect somewhere, and Satan has had a chance to get in. It is necessary to repent and confess where you have given place to the devil, and then he can be dealt with.

David

Here the old master is exhorting believers to "go after the devil/cancer.
That last sentence is awesome about you mouth , mind, and whole being" !!!

.....When you deal with a cancer case, recognize that it is a living evil spirit that is destroying the body. I had to pray for a woman in Los Angeles one time who was suffering with cancer, and as soon as it was cursed it stopped bleeding. It was dead. The next thing that happened was that the natural body pressed it out, because the natural body had no room for dead matter. It came out like a great big ball with tens of thousands of fibers. All these fibers had been pressing into the flesh. These evil powers move to get further hold of the system, but the moment they are destroyed their hold is gone. Jesus said to His disciples that He gave them power to loose and power to bind. It is our privilege in the power of the Holy Ghost to loose the prisoners of Satan and to let the oppressed go free.

Take your position in the first epistle of John and declare, "Greater is He that is in me than he that is in the world." Then recognize that it is not yourself that has to deal with the power of the devil, but the Greater One that is in you. Oh, what it means to be filled with Him. You can do nothing of yourself, but He that is in you will win the victory. Your being has become the temple of the Spirit. Your mouth, your mind, your whole being becomes exercised and worked upon by the Spirit of God

David

Wigglesworth in norway;

...........I was called to a certain town in Norway. The hall seated about 1500 people. When I got to the place it was packed, and hundreds were trying to get in. There were some policemen there. The first thing I did was to preach to the people outside the building. Then I said to the policemen, "It hurts me very much that there are more people outside than inside and I feel I must preach to the people. I would like you to get me the market place to preach in." They secured for me a great park and a big stand was erected and I was able to preach to thousands. After the preaching we had some wonderful cases of healing. One man came a hundred miles bringing his food with him. He had not been passing anything through his stomach for over a month as he had a great cancer on his stomach. He was healed at that meeting, and opening his parcel, he began eating before all the people. There was a young woman there with a stiff hand. Instead of the mother making the child use her arm she had allowed the child to keep the arm dormant until it was stiff, and she had grown up to be a young woman and was like the woman that was bowed down with the spirit of infirmity. As she stood before me I cursed the spirit of infirmity in the name of Jesus. It was instantly cast out and the arm was free. Then she waved it all over. At the close of the meeting the devil laid out two people with fits, When the devil is manifesting himself, then is the time to deal with him. Both of these people were delivered, and when they stood up and thanked and praised the Lord what a wonderful time we had.

David

Here is wigglesworth on deception;

........How many times has Satan come along to you this way? He says, "After all, you may be deceived. You know you really are not a child of God." If the devil comes along and says that you are not saved, it is a pretty sure sign that you are. When he comes and tells you that you are not healed, it may be taken as good evidence that the Lord has sent His word and healed you. The devil knows that if he can capture your thought life, he has won a mighty victory over you. His great business is injecting thoughts, but if you are pure and holy you will instantly shrink from them. God wants us to let the mind that was in Christ Jesus, that pure, holy, humble mind of Christ, be in us.

I come across people everywhere I go who are held bound by deceptive conditions, and these conditions have come about simply because they have allowed the devil to make their minds the place of his stronghold. How are we to guard against this? The Lord has provided us with weapons that are mighty through God to the pulling down of these strongholds of the enemy, and by means of which every thought shall be brought into captivity to the obedience of Christ. The blood of Jesus Christ and His mighty name are an antidote to all the subtle seeds of unbelief that Satan would sow in your minds.

I just love this man,how could anybody not be uplifted?

David

Hi everyone,

The Lord Jesus said,

[b][color=660000] If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true. [/color][/b]

Paul told timothy to [i]make full proof of thy ministry.[/i]

Of servants of the Lord, he told him that they must

not strive

be gentle unto all

be apt to teach

be patient

and give instruction in meekness.

As to preaching the Gospel, Paul wrote of himself,

"I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God. For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed, Through mighty signs and wonders, by the power of the Spirit of God; so that from Jerusalem, and round about unto Illyricum, I have fully preached the gospel of Christ."

- Romans 15:17-19(KJV)

[i]I have fully preached the gospel of Christ[/i]

Not only in words, but in deeds also.

Chris

In this little snippet wigglesworth recounts the awesome breaking of the believer;

............"We need to wake up and be on the stretch to believe God. Before God could bring me to this place He has broken me a thousand times. I have wept, I have groaned, I have travailed many a night until God broke me. It seems to me that until God has mowed you down you never can have this longsuffering for others. We can never have the gifts of healing and the working of miracles in operation only as we stand in the divine power that God gives us and we stand believing God, and having done all we still stand believing.

We have been seeing wonderful miracles these last days and they are only a little of what we are going to see. I believe that we are right on the threshold of wonderful things, but I want to emphasize that all these things will be through the power of the Holy Ghost. You must not think that these gifts will fall upon you like ripe cherries. There is a sense in which you have to pay the price for everything you get. We must be covetous for God's best gifts, and say Amen to any preparation the Lord takes us through, in order that we may be humble, usable vessels through whom He Himself can operate by means of the Spirit's power.

I'm glad he was willing to pay the price

David

Katy-did

I think we also need to be equally careful of his critics. Their agenda may be that of the Pharisees, hating any manifestation of God's power.

"I want you to understand that after the trials, after all the temptations and everything, Jesus comes out more full of God, more clothed in the Spirit, more ready for the fight" (Wigglesworth, "The Place of Power," June 1916, reprinted in The Anointing of His Spirit, p. 146). This is heresy. The Lord Jesus Christ was God the Son. He could not be "more full of God." Further, He was given the Spirit without measure (John 3:34).

I don't know the original context of this quote, but it may be the 'heresy-busters' that are twisting context here.

We need to consider that while Jesus is God, God the Father and God the Holy Ghost are separate persons. If God the Holy Ghost was always fully present with Jesus, why did the Holy Spirit come down on him during his baptism? The phrase "he [u]was given[/u] the Spirit without measure" would also suggest that he was without the full measure at some point.

Another example is the death cry of Jesus : "My Father, My Father, why have you forsaken me?" At this point he wasn't "always full of God [the Father]".

This Wigglesworth quote also reminds me of the passage in the Bible where Jesus heard about the death of John the Baptist, went into a 'desert place apart' (I assume to pray), and shortly afterwards healed many sick and feed the five thousand.

I'm not saying that every point of Wigglesworth's theology is necessarily correct, however I believe he moved in God's power and at God's calling. I'm not aware of him ever trying to set himself up as an 'untouchable' leader of a cult, extract large sums of money from his listeners, or committing any of the other perversities that are common amongst deceivers.

PassingThru

Psalm 1 and Heartsong (who posted the report of Ami not just surviving but miraculously surviving the bomb blast in Israel), I thank you for your posts. Psalm 1 the excerpts from books on Wigglesworth have given me pause to seek the Lord for greater hunger and thirst for Him and His Word and righteousness and Holy Spirit discernment. Make us holy God; make us want to be holy. God grant us these and please give us real and deep love and compassion for others.

I love this bit about jesus still heals;

.........."Bible reading, Matt. 8:1-17.

Here we have a wonderful word. All the Word is wonderful. This blessed Book brings such life and health and peace, and such an abundance that we should never be poor any more. This Book is my heavenly bank. I find everything I want in it. I want to show you how rich you may be, that in everything you can be enriched in Christ Jesus. He has abundance of grace for you and the gift of righteousness, and through His abundant grace all things are possible. I want to show you that you can be a living branch of the living Vine, Christ Jesus, and that it is your privilege to be right here in this world what He is. John tells us, "As He is, so are we in this world." Not that we are anything in ourselves, but Christ within us is our all in all.

The Lord Jesus is always wanting to show forth Ills grace and love in order to draw us to Himself. God is willing to do things, to manifest His Word, and let us know in measure the mind of our God in this day and hour. There are many needy ones, many afflicted ones, but I do not think any present are half as bad as this first case that we read of in Matthew 8. This man was a leper. You may be suffering with consumption or cancers or other things, but God will show forth His perfect cleansing, His perfect healing, if you have a living faith in Christ. He is a wonderful Jesus.

This leper must have been told about Jesus. How much is missed because people are not constantly telling what Jesus will do in this our day. Probably someone had come to that leper and said, "Jesus can heal you." And so he was filled with expectation as he saw the Lord coming down the mountain side. Lepers were not allowed to come within reach of people, they were shut out as unclean. And so in the ordinary way it would have been very difficult for him to get near because of the crowd that surrounded Jesus. But as He came down from the mount He met this poor leper. Oh, this terrible disease! There was no help for him humanly speaking, but nothing is too hard for Jesus. The man cried, "Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean." Was Jesus willing? You will never find Jesus missing an opportunity of doing good. You will find that He is always more willing to work than we are to give Him an opportunity to work. The trouble is we do not come to Him, we do not ask Him for what He is more than willing to give.

Thats good news!!!!!!

David

Katy-did wrote:
I see no where in Acts where Paul or the Apostles preformed these signs and miracles to the all ready saved.

What about Acts 20:7-12; Paul was preaching a long sermon to the disciples in Troas (They had broken bread together). Eutychus fell from a third story window and was killed. Paul went down, fell on him, and embracing him raised him back to life. Paul then had some refreshment and taught on until day break. No sermonette here.
Oh that we would have the faith to believe that God has not changed.

there are those that believe Miracles and healing still happen and those that dont.
To me it is impossible to get gloriously and radically saved and then go back to being a heathen.......and yet this happens.

Just the same it is impossible to see miracles up close and be used of God to lay hands on the sick and even raise the dead and then , some time later say "aw thats just huey"
Both to be saved and to see sick people healed will change you for life.....Never the same!!!

This is an example of unbelief ;

.........."I was called at 10 o'clock one night to pray for a young person given up by the doctor who was dying of consumption. As I looked, I saw that unless God undertook it was impossible for her to live. I turned to the mother and said, "Well, mother. you will have to go to bed." She said, "Oh, I have not had my clothes off for three weeks." I said to the daughters, "You will have to go to bed," but they did not want to go. It was the same with the son. I put on my overcoat and said, "Good-bye, I'm off." They said, "Oh, don't leave us." I said, "I can do nothing here." They said, "Oh, if you will stop, we will all go to bed." I knew that God would move nothing in an atmosphere of mere natural sympathy and unbelief.

They all went to bed and I stayed, and that was surely a time as I knelt by that bed face to face with death and with the devil. But God can change the hardest situation and make you know that He is almighty.

Then the fight came. It seemed as though the heavens were brass. I prayed from 11 to 3:30 in the morning. I saw the glimmering light on the face of the sufferer and saw her pass away. The devil said, "Now you are done for. You have come from Bradford and the girl has died on your hands." I said, "It can't be. God did not send me here for nothing. This is a time to change strength." I remembered that passage which said, "Men ought always to pray and not to faint." Death had taken place but I knew that my God was all powerful, and He that had split the Red Sea is just the same today. It was a time when I would not have "No," and God said "Yes." I looked at the window and at that moment the face of Jesus appeared. It seemed as though a million rays of light were coming from His face. As He looked at the one who had just passed away, the color came back to the face. She rolled over and fell asleep. Then I had a glorious time. In the morning she woke early, put on a dressing gown and walked to the piano. She started to play and to sing a wonderful song. The mother and the sister and the brother had all come down to listen. The Lord had undertaken. A miracle had been wrought.

.............And what happens in an atmosphere of faith!!!!

David

In response to Katydid's comment earlier: I see no where....to the already saved.

We see clearly in Acts 9:36-42 where a disciple of Christ..one Tabitha translated Dorcas was sick and died..Peter came and prayed with unwavering faith in the Living Lord Jesus and lifted her up to live again..Glory to God!! The Almighty God moved among the already believing disciples and the result was that good news traveling fast throughout Joppa brought many more into the fold! Hallelujah!!That God has given us record of the way He will move through His believers if only we will believe! May His perfect will be done through the lives of His humble and surrendered disciples today..for His glory as He deems appropriate and needed.We serve a mighty God!
Jesus Christ!The same yesterday,today and forever!

I love this story wigglesworth tells......

"A woman came to me in the city of Liverpool and said, "I would like you to help me. I wish you would join with me in prayer. My husband is a drunkard and every night comes into the home under the influence of drink. Won't you join me in prayer for him?" I said to the woman, "Have you a handkerchief ?" She took out a handkerchief and I prayed over it and told her to lay it on the pillow of the drunken man. He came home that night and laid his head on the pillow in which this handkerchief was tucked. He laid his head on more than the pillow that night. He laid his head on the promise of God. In Mark 11 :24, we read, "What things soever ye desire when ye pray, believe that ye receive them and ye shall have them."

The next morning the man got up and called at the first saloon that he had to pass on his way to work and ordered some beer. He tasted it and said to the bartender, "You have put some poison in this beer." He could not drink it, and went on to the next saloon and ordered some more beer. He tasted it and said to the man behind the counter, "You put some poison in this beer, I believe you folks have agreed to poison me." The bartender was indignant at being thus charged. The man said, "I will go somewhere else." He went to another saloon and the same thing happened as in the two previous saloons. He made such a fuss that they turned him out. After he came out from work he went to another saloon to get some beer, and again he thought he had been poisoned and he made so much disturbance that he was thrown out. He went to his home and told his wife what had happened and said, ".It seems as though all the fellows have agreed to poison me." His wife said to him, "Can't you see the hand of the Lord in this, that He is making you dislike the stuff that has been your ruin?" This word brought conviction to the man's heart and he came to the meeting and got saved. The Lord has still power to set the captives free.

I dont think some other power or spirit convinced this man to be saved.
It appears God does still move through handkercheifs.

David

Katy-did,

Now if Signs and wonders were to qualify the Gospel, and that Jesus was/is the Son of God, bringing people to Christ for salvation....then is signs and miracles for the saved?

Patterns of events in the Bible aren't necessarily hard and fast rules on how God will choose to operate today or tomorrow. When Jesus came teaching and healing, the pharisees rebuke was "has any prophet ever come from Galilee?".

We need to ensure that we don't contradict scripture anywhere, and at the same time we need to take care that we don't try to put God in a box.

Other than qualifying the gospel, I think miracles and signs exist to glorify God and to bless his people. I doubt that God has chosen to be economical with His manifestations of power to the point of reserving them for the unsaved only. God has infinite resources and there isn't a more generous being in the entire universe.

It is we who are not ready to handle God's power and gifts responsibly.

PassingThru

David..one of my favorite stories is the one where Smith went to an older woman's home(a widow?) who's son had fallen into sin and had left his family..wife and children,choosing a debauched life...but was staying at his mother's house and she was besides herself with concern.Smith heard her story and then simply went to lay down on the fellow's bed,praying earnestly for a few hours until the burden lifted,then left and went home..the testimony was that as soon as the man came home later that night and laid down on that bed..he was so convicted of his sin that he repented and went home the next day a changed man..back to his waiting family..Praise God for restored lives and families!

Katy-did wrote:
I see no where in Acts where Paul or the Apostles preformed these signs and miracles to the all ready saved.
Then said:
Ulsterman, I have no doubts at all that miracles followed Paul, or doubt in any way the incident in Acts 20.

Katy

Katy, sorry I am a little confused. You said that Paul did no miracles to the saved. When I pointed out the raising of the dead at a believers meeting in Acts 20, you said that I had misunderstood. Is the raising of the dead not a miracle? Was it not done in the context of only the saved?
Why as has been already stated are we so quick to put God in a box?
Oh that God would give me a burden and a passion like Wigglesworth had.

Dear Saints,
Are not the gifts given for the edification of the body, the perfecting of the saints, and the work of the ministry?

Last week a dear brother came to us in church and had a horrible rash all over his body. The doctors could not help him, they had no idea what it was. His wife was in tears with distress. We prayed for him to the One who has declared Himself as our Healer. On Friday my husband met with him at church and his rash was gone! He was rejoicing and thanking the Lord our God!

When we are in trouble where are we to run to? Is it not the Great I Am? We will have trouble, trials, and tribulation on the earth, but is He not our Help in those times of need?

Did He not cause the wind and the storm to cease, after He commanded His disciples to go to the other side? When we are sent, will we not encounter the enemy which is a supernatural force, will we not need supernatural power to fight the good fight of faith?

In His amazing love,
Lowly
__________________________________________
Learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly of heart.............

If wigglesworth were alive today , i believe he would respond to "letusreason" in the following manner...................."It is interesting to me how "watchmen" claim to be the only ones left who are true to God and his word and yet their humanness trips them up when interpreting Gods word.
They fail to realize that in attacking the works and the saints operating in healing etc....they unwittingly attack Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Who is Jesus? Is he powerless?
Does he need permission from these people?

Here is a quote from these so called experts;
......"Today we are confronted with a new type of Gospel, one of experiencing the supernatural, Healing (and sometimes even success are included ). Are signs and wonders part of the Gospel? The promise of healing as it is taught today is never found in scripture, there were no healing miracle crusades. There were real healings but they were not the focus. The Focus was Christ and his forgiveness and man being reconciled to a holy God. Its interesting that when we hear of all the promises claimed today we never hear of the promise of persecution or tribulations for those who truly follow the Lord (Mk.10:30; Jn.16:33; 1 Thess.3:4; Rev1:9). Try preaching that at a crusade and see who shows up, or see how popular your ministry will be. These promises are just as viable as any other but unattractive for those who want their ears tickled

So we see the the ones judging have been indicted by their own folly.
They are today heaping teachers to themselves on a mission to ruin a segment of the body that would dare step out in faith to fulfill their destiny and the great commission.

They also fail to represent Jesus but they themselves preach a different Jesus.....a powerless Jesus.
They unwittingly are so obsessed with their policing of the body they have laid down their priestly office to pick up police uniforms and the law to ruin anyone not marching to their drumbeat.
Thats the thing about judgement. It has a "boomerang effect"
If a person or a ministry is top heavy on judging(especially unscripturally like "letusreason") they themselves receive their own intent.
Pro;26-2 An undeserved curse cannot find rest.

They say"only the gospel that Paul preached"
Should we omit the Jesus of John the revelator?
The early saints preached from the old testament......Should all types and shadows be thrown out?

this is a no brainer!!!

David

What I love about Wigglesworth was that he was an earthen vessel who knew the heart of his Heavenly Father and the compassion of his Savior. He was moved when he saw the affliction of God's people. He was burdened when he saw the souls of men bound by the enemy.

He had a tremendous heart for the lost. When he was younger he used to stand out on a corner after work and pray. He waited on the Lord to show him who he should share the gospel with. He would not move until he was directed and shared Jesus with someone. He did this everyday and saw so many people repent, and believe in the atoning work of Christ.

A miracle is just a word we give for God's supernatural act. Did Jesus not show us the heart of His Father when He saw their affliction and reached out with mercy and lifted them out of their pit. Or released them from their prison, or healed them from their disease. Was it not lovingkindness for His own?

When He responded and acted it took something supernatural to deliver them from their circumstances, so we call His action a miracle.

It is about the love of God seeing the condition of His people and having compassion. Shall we not see and have compassion.

When the woman who couldn't stand up straight was seen by Jesus and He loosed her from her infirmity, did He not compare it to an animal being locked in a stall. Was He not moved to help her? Have you never been that woman?

Have you never been the woman with the dead son? Have you never had an issue of life drain you, and have no answer? Have you never been placed in a prison by guilt remorse regret and shame? Has the slanderer never oppressed you with lies about your failures, your uselessness, unworthiness as you have tried to serve the Lord with all your heart?

This is about love and compassion, the miracle is just the name of the Lord's response. What else could we call it. Our God is our Healer, Deliver, Savior, etc. He is wondrous and just, and His mercies are new every morning. He has always been actively involved in the lives of His people.

May I have my Fathers heart, and the compassion of my Savior.

In His amazing love,
Lowly
________________________________________
Learn of Me, for I am meek and lowly of heart.....................

So we see the the ones judging have been indicted by their own folly.

Here is a quote from these so called experts; ......"Today we are confronted with a new type of Gospel, one of experiencing the supernatural, Healing (and sometimes even success are included ). Are signs and wonders part of the Gospel? The promise of healing as it is taught today is never found in scripture, there were no healing miracle crusades. There were real healings but they were not the focus. The Focus was Christ and his forgiveness and man being reconciled to a holy God. Its interesting that when we hear of all the promises claimed today we never hear of the promise of persecution or tribulations for those who truly follow the Lord (Mk.10:30; Jn.16:33; 1 Thess.3:4; Rev1:9). Try preaching that at a crusade and see who shows up, or see how popular your ministry will be. These promises are just as viable as any other but unattractive for those who want their ears tickled

David, reversed the order, see the correlation? That you are doing the same thing that you are accusing others of?

It is this either\\or that keeps us in a cynical and cyclical biting of either our own or each others tails. Away with the extremes. Both are true. We have an overabundance of emphasis on the miraculous that cannot just be shoved off to one side without addressing it and to do so does not have to denote that everything falls into that same extreme. All or nothing, always or never, so it seems underlines much of what causes so much schism and factions across a whole range of issues.

Attempted a consideration elsewhere about 'incident or precedent' when it comes to scripture and to even real life experience. What does scripture portray in any given circumstance?

Have been holding back a bit, reading through all this on Smith Wigglesworth and might mention a search of his name here will bring forth some other good postings as well.

Being early on well caught up in WOF constructs and it might be stated that not a few of the ideals were extrapolated even from Wigglesworth's ministry ... When I began to question it all, take in some criticism (which I was naturally predisposed to) and force myself to listen and consider everything I had more or less swallowed there came a point of departure from it all. By that I do mean [i]all[/i]. It was that which Zac Poonen describes as 'pendulumitis'. It meant anything that had even the smell of those things being overemphasized; healing, miracles, tongues, faith 'in faith' and so forth were discarded without question or consideration. Anything taught or related, anyone even remotely associated ... Wigglesworth, Lake, just to mention two, were in my estimation false and not even worth the bother of investigating. So intent and even 'injured' I felt from being led astray that there was no discussion necessary. It took a great deal of time to curb my bitterness though it was some mix of indignation and sorrow, sadness and grief, confusion all wrapped up together. But bitterness it was still and moreover just plain pride.

Part of the trouble I had was my wife's penchant and bent towards healing and even healing 'ministries'. I found myself having to wrestle with not only my own aforementioned issues but also somehow manage to listen not merely hear and consider her then deep seated belief.

What really threw me the proverbial curve ball was happening upon SermonIndex some 5 blessed years ago. All of a sudden I was thrust up against it all. Both. Both was happening. Here were men of God greatly used and finally speaking heart truths that seemed so elusive out in the modern day constructs that I was more familiar with. Profound, life, spiritual life changing aspects and attributes. Old paths and old ways, the old gospel as it seemed so much more in-line with what I was only beginning to grasp at, that it was truly a heart matter through and through, that it was not something one could fake their way through, that the road was indeed narrow ...

And then to top it all off, here were men like Ravenhill who challenged me in profound ways also speaking in great appreciation of men like ... Smith Wigglesworth? Uh oh ... now I have a conundrum and so the beginnings of "perhaps I may be wrong .. after all". Stranger still was to find by these associations and reconsiderings all my wifes old books on the shelf. They had always been there but due to my upswing on the pendulum I had set about to ignore them. And go figure, after all this time here were many of the one and same things resourced on SI right on the shelf of my own office.

It threw me for a bit of a loop and caused me to become even more honest with myself over what I really knew, what was a presumption, what was taken at face value, in a clip or a comment when one side or the other was presenting their 'facts'. Was it in context, was it an embellishment, did so and so really say such things, teach such things? Did the now defenders\\detractors take something and expand on it, develop it out, do a disservice to the author, teacher, preacher?

I was surprised by Wigglesworth. Most of the notions I had of him where those things that were detrimental of, critical of him. At the same time not everything was without some warrant or concern, still find those things that are of a concern. There is this word,

[b]Enigmatically
ENIGMAT'ICALLY[/b], adv. In an obscure manner; in a sense different from that which the words in common acceptation imply.

And prefer that definition here. There is no doubt in my mind that there are some very enigmatic personalities and I just do not know that Wigglesworth was such a one. Something I think we have to come to terms with is this tension and often paradox with the saints. Think it was Paul West's warning about how we go about labeling those who are 'false' too haphazardly. There are untold abuses from the likes of well known or more popular men in our day and I am not necessarily speaking of anyone in particular.

In a nutshell we must be fair and fair across the board. Not fair in compromise, but fair in honesty. And stay away from blanket statements that are extreme, attempting to pit scripture against itself and each other rather bringing the whole to bear upon it.

I've been wanting to make comment regarding certain believers' frequent and unhealthy infatuations with men like Wigglesworth and Lake and Maria Woodworth-Etter others who were used by God in the miraculous in the past century:

I have noticed that these ministries, although not necessarily dangerous in themselves, can often be like babes-in-Christ magnets to the detriment of the believer. What I mean to say is that the flash and fireworks of these ministries often attract immature believers to speak loftly and excitedly and try to emulate the men God used (to no avail), and at the same time, many of these belivers have no excitement to share when it comes to discussing matters of [i]intangible[/i] holiness (the things God [i]has[/i] empowered them to do); that is, sober obedience to God in miracle-less, quiet prayer and reading the Word and just walking the Christian walk daily.

Frankly, this is a concern. Babes just saved, or refusing to grow, often have the propensity to question why other ministries and fellowships are not moving like Wigglesworth's and too often tally up the lack of miracles and signs and wonders thereof to apostasy and unbelief. This is a very true and hidden thing, and once in awhile it will come out if they are allowed to preach or share ministry at a men's breakfast. They will point out: "Normal Christianity is like Wigglesworth. God wants to use us all like Wigglesworth and we can do everything he did if we would just believe God. The reason we are not raising the dead is because we have left our first love and grown too religious and organized and unbelieving."

This is the deceptive seed the enemy plants in them, though it appears on the surface to be very godly and wise and true. But it is not; it is a lie, the product of immature zeal without knowledge or discernment, much like a teenager in rebellion to his parent's wiser counsel, thinking he knows all about life based on a Hollywood movie or his friends' influence or own self-crafted illusions of what life is. I've seen young believers rebel against older, wiser saints in much the same way - influenced by Wigglesworth and the things he did and how it everything he did must apply to everyone and every church or something is not right.

Wigglesworth, I believe was the real deal, but unfortunately the nature of his ministry attracts the unlearned and undisciplined and ungrounded and very often corrupts, what is in fact, reality. It is a very dangerous thing when a person becomes thwarted from holiness and humility and sobriety and is enchanted with the glimmer and glitter of merchandise which was not, is not, and will not be his. I have not yet met one person who sings praises of Wigglesworth and exhorts the church to "only believe" and do what he did...I have never seen or heard one of those people raise the dead themselves. All it ever amounts to is talk, storytelling and campfire songs, but the campfire quickly dies out when we propose to substitutue personal holiness and humility and decency for miracles. The discussion is over, the lore disenchanting, and the miracle-less acclaimers of Wigglesworth suddenly become insulted.

Well, please grow up and face reality. God uses whomever He wishes to accomplish whatever it is He purposes in due season. Every miracle I have seen has been spontaneous and not worked up...and when it's over, it's over. We don't dwell on it because there may be children listening. Those of us who watched the two-hour Ravenhill interview "Man of God" should notice how little he spoke of miracles, even though he was acquainted with the ministries of Wigglesworth and John Lake. He recognized them both as genuine men of God, but there it ended. Every miraculous incident he spoke of was in passing, and he had nothing positive at all to say about the "signs and wonders" fascination.

Brethen, this is a mature, discerning attitude to have. Give credence to miracles, but do not dwell on them. There is something even more miraculous than raising the dead; [i]it is Christ living in us[/i] and the daily reckoning of ourselves dead in Christ.

Good Word brother Paul

I also think Wigglesworth was truly Gods instrument in many miracles, with that word i meen such things that cant be naturly explained. I think sometimes we even confuse miracles with something else.

Another reason i think we dont see so much of this ministry, we see many claiming to have this gift, in certain groups more then others.

I think of a quote from Zac Poonen

"Jesus did not preach about healing, he healed many, but he did not preach it."

Today we have many preaching it, not so many actually doing it. I believe Wigglesworth did heal many.

But it seems because we have some who have deceived a multitude by claiming they have this gift, and in other areas they are "suspicious", it seem they have "kidnapped" the gifts of God, i believe they are there, i have seen some of it and experienced "supernatural" things myself.

but to get to the point, i think Art Katz touches something here in this excerpt....

[i]The account of Ananias and Sapphira in the Book of Acts is a remarkable episode of an incident that occurred in another age, in an hour when the Spirit of God prevailed in such magnitude and purity that the very same act which might well be applauded today, resulted, in that day, in sudden judgment and death. By applauded, I mean that we do not ask questions about those who give great contributions to the Church, but instead, we give such a person a place of honor and acknowledgement, a deacon at least, if not an elder. But the Church, which identified the lie and was not impressed with the sum, is not the Church of today.

It was the Church in its glory then, because it was alert to the issue of truth and deception, because it knew that before the Spirit of God manifests as the Spirit of power, He is first and foremost the Spirit of truth. When truth is disallowed, when truth is compromised, can we think that the dove is going to be around to perform the expressions of power that serve our needs and gratify our souls, if we have forsaken Him and His first designation and identity as the Spirit of truth? There needs to be a jealous regard for the truth that Peter exercised, enabling him to discern the fraud of a man and his wife giving a sum of money, however impressive, presenting it as the whole, though it was only in part.

But Peter said, “Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit, and to keep back some of the price of the land? While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God.”

And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came upon all who heard of it (Acts 5:3-5).

Almost in the next breath we read,

And at the hands of the apostles many signs and wonders were taking place among the people; and they were all with one accord in Solomon’s portico (Acts 5:12).

In other words, the respect for the Spirit of God as the Spirit of truth makes way for the Spirit of God as the Spirit of power. The contemporary Church has reversed it; we have celebrated the power, the signs, the wonders, and relegated the truth to a distant consideration, if indeed, any consideration at all. And which of us has not played the game of giving the part and making that to appear to be the whole?

There was a time when we used to say that the truth is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, or it is a lie. It is the whole truth, or it is not the truth. Any disqualification, any cutting of corners, anything less than what is whole and full converts what seems to be impressive into a lie. I take pains to dwell on this because it is a statement of the Church today; we have only given part, but we call that part the whole, when it is only a part. We have not the reticence, the modesty or the meekness appropriate to a Church whose Lord is the Lamb, because we are full of hype and exaggeration, pompous ambition and activity, and think that that constitutes the whole.

So we need to ask ourselves, are we doing anything different from what Ananias and Sapphira did when we seek and expect the evidence and power of a life totally given to God, while giving ourselves only in part, but presuming to have given ourselves wholly? We all want the semblance of these things, the comfort of the Spirit, the intimate communion, but we want it at the lesser price of acknowledging truth only in a doctrinal sense, or in the sense of being correct, rather than acknowledging truth as the very sum and substance of the reality of our lives. We want to speak truth, but not to be true; we want correct words, we want to acknowledge truth, but not to obey it. We are bringing our partial, phraseological truth and making that to stand for the whole, as if we have the reality that we are describing.

To decide to tolerate one deceit is to violate the whole truth. To be ninety-nine percent true, or mostly true, and represent that as the whole truth is to lie utterly, and to sin in one part is to sin in the whole. It is where we are most tempted to keep back for ourselves that the issue of truth really lays. What one truth, what one final issue, what one reserve is the thing that keeps us back from that utterness towards God, that makes truth really the truth, and brings to the Church and to its fellowship the reality of His presence and His glory?

[/i]

This is so inspiring! this little story by wigglesworth,I hope it inspires some new convert. I truly hope those not able to access doctors in other countries take up the healing mantle. Aren't you glad Jesus still heals!!!

............"He left my wife in a state of broken-heartedness.

After he left, there came to our door a young man and an old lady. I knew that she was a woman of real prayer. They came upstairs to my room. This young man jumped on the bed and commanded the evil spirit to come out of me. He shouted, "Come out, you devil; I command you to come out in the name of Jesus!" There was no chance for an argument, or for me to tell him that I would never believe that there was a devil inside of me. The thing had to go in the name of Jesus, and it went, and I was instantly healed.

I arose and dressed and went downstairs. I was still in the plumbing business, and I asked my wife, "Is there any work in? I am all right now, and I am going to work." I found there was a certain job to be done and I picked up my tools and went off to do it. Just after I left, the doctor came in, put his plug hat down in the hall, and walked up to the bedroom. But the invalid was not there. "Where is Mr. Wigglesworth ?" he asked. "Oh, doctor, he's gone out to work," said my wife. "You'll never see him alive again," said the doctor; "they'll bring him back a corpse."

Well, I'm the corpse.

I like that Jesus Used a young man to help wigglesworth!!!
Even the children can do exploits for God!!!
they dont have the unbelief us adults have!!!

May God inspire more of us to step out in faith!!!

David

psalm1 wrote:
This is so inspiring! this little story by wigglesworth,I hope it inspires some new convert. I truly hope those not able to access doctors in other countries take up the healing mantle. Aren't you glad Jesus still heals!!!

............"He left my wife in a state of broken-heartedness.

After he left, there came to our door a young man and an old lady. I knew that she was a woman of real prayer. They came upstairs to my room. This young man jumped on the bed and commanded the evil spirit to come out of me. He shouted, "Come out, you devil; I command you to come out in the name of Jesus!" There was no chance for an argument, or for me to tell him that I would never believe that there was a devil inside of me. The thing had to go in the name of Jesus, and it went, and I was instantly healed.

I arose and dressed and went downstairs. I was still in the plumbing business, and I asked my wife, "Is there any work in? I am all right now, and I am going to work." I found there was a certain job to be done and I picked up my tools and went off to do it. Just after I left, the doctor came in, put his plug hat down in the hall, and walked up to the bedroom. But the invalid was not there. "Where is Mr. Wigglesworth ?" he asked. "Oh, doctor, he's gone out to work," said my wife. "You'll never see him alive again," said the doctor; "they'll bring him back a corpse."

Well, I'm the corpse.

I like that Jesus Used a young man to help wigglesworth!!!
Even the children can do exploits for God!!!
they dont have the unbelief us adults have!!!

May God inspire more of us to step out in faith!!!

David

Thank you David for your encouragement, and AMEN to what you say. May we all step out in faith believing God

What should we do? Simple..Be humbly obediant,be willingly available and full of mercy from which springs compassion.
I personally was impacted by Smith Wigglesworth's Ever Increasing Faith and one other book about him..I was in my 20's and didn't know enough about theology..doctrine and such to be able to spot any place where he may have waxed eloquent..though wrongly about Jesus becoming more than He already is and has been forever,something Katy pointed out earlier..except that I suspect that as he walked with God ,Jesus seemed to become more and more to him as he stepped forward to fulfil his unique calling. One thing I did know was that only God is 100% right on the mark all the time..never met a man or woman of God since who didn't err on at least one or two points.Blessed is the humble soul who will let go of their need to be right so they can be made righteous and true.It is a good thing that God looks on the heart,sees us through the righteousness of Christ's shed blood and whether we are available for Him to utilize for His kingdom sake.Beware of the leaven of the Pharisee.Taking away the keys of our knowlege of God's kingdom is a no-no!

During prayer this morning,the Holy Spirit impressed upon me this story to share..He said that since Smith's ministry had impacted my growing faith and that I'd read some dear saints crying out to have God reveal Himself today as He is seen to do in the scriptures..well..that it would be a good thing to encourage the brethren with an example of how God leads us by His Spirit and how His eyes are upon all the beloved to heal and and provide succor and comfort..revealing His deep and abiding love for us who obediantly follow. Stories like this also help those who don't know the God we serve because it helps them to understand just how attuned to our needs our Savior is..how closely He provides guidance and the reality(truth) that upholds the fact that He truly lives and knows everything about who we are..where we have been and what He is creating us to be...more and more conformed to His image..like Him. Just as the increased brightness of the dawning day's sun rises in the sky,so shall we shine brighter and brighter..for it is Him who shines within us.

The morning had arrived when the children and I were leaving our home on the high desert mesa in Taos N.M,embarking on a journey 1,000 miles west,to continue the work God had begun, healing me of my traumatic past,for the purpose of making it possible for me to walk in unconditional agape love towards all ,more consistently,for this was the desire of my Heavenly Father for me.Having me closer to my parents was expediant for this process to be expedited. To my suprise, nearby neighbors began to arrive in families greeting me with "How can I help?" I directed everyone as to what was going into the small Honda civic station wagon..and a small procession of belongings made it's way out of the underground solar home to place beside the vehicle..someone had even spread a tarp so as not to get things dirty.One man,a Sufi Moslem who's wife later returned to her true faith in Christ,Glory!..eyed the pile,the car and the three little ones..who'd lay on the bedlike arrangement I'd planned to make and announced,"You'll need a rack..I've got just the thing" Fixing the rack,deftly packing everything snugly in place,he took charge while others alternately helped or gave advise to me about how to proceed with the drive.All the rest fit inside perfectly..and with many hugs from my firends from various walks of life and a sheepish promise from their dad to "start doing his own home work..stop messing around with God..and get serious about becoming the good soil." He'd be joining us about 6 mos later..we drove off under a clear sky into a new adventure.

With 3 small children under 5..I knew that I'd be needing to stop often and be sensitive to when they needed to get out and play,stretch..run and shout...lest they become unhappy.We'd driven for a few hours and stopped in the big city the first day..staying overnight with a family we knew..artists who loved Jesus with all their hearts.The next day we'd started after noon and had just crossed the border into Arizona when I heard the children begin to fuss with one another,obviously becoming stretched by the enclosed space..bored now with the small toys and puzzles,books and such that I'd supplied to entertain.I had no real plan except to trust God for the moment by moment input He would give me as needed.All around us as far as the eye could see was stretching desert,sage brush and small bluffs rising here and there across the horizon,I checked on the map getting an idea where we were but no little towns seemed to be anywhere near..I thought well we could just stop on a large shoulder and go for a walk..we had food in the cooler.The voices in the back were becoming more peevish..coming close to argumentative..the atmosphere in the car was fragile at best..something needed to happen to change the mood..What should I do Lord? Nothing..not a hint.I cajoled the children as happily as I could..but they were not feeling any better.I am not a great parent by any means..for me to parent I always had to be looking to The Father for help..not once in the morning but for every differing moment,even on a normal day..I could not lean on my own understanding..I was totally dependant upon Him,lest I become overwhelmed..I asked again.."Lord..I know that we should'nt ask you for a sign..but I need your help here..I don't know what to do...I need you to show me a sign...something..anything!"

Oh! How He gently leads those who are with young! And what a sense of humor our Gracious Father has..was He offended that I'd asked for a sign? Quite the contrary!

So I'm driving along and what do I see? An enormous sign.. billboard size..a sign with a huge painting of Jesus with His arms outstretched!

"How's that for a sign?" I hear in my spirit.This sign was advertising a church somewhere nearby..there was a town nearby..could've fooled me..it must be hidden..but here was this sign inviting folks to come worship with them. I wondered how current the sign was and if this church still fellowshipped.I hear,"Get off on the upcoming offramp." I do that and driving down a small road,I see a market/gas station standing alone in an opening."See that red truck?" I hear..I could see the pickup.."Now see the man walking towards the truck from the store?" Yes, I could see the man.."Now,pull alongside and ask him who painted the sign." I pulled alongside and said 'Hello..can you tell me who painted the big sign of Jesus that is out on the highway?' He smiled and replied, 'Oh,sure..that would be my brother-in -law." and he went on to explain that it was his extended family who had the church that he then gave me directions so to help me find it.

Ok..we were cooking with gas now.Following the directions a few miles down the road I came upon a nicely built,modest church building and pulled into the driveway..as he'd mentioned there was no evidence that a service would be happening that evening..I believe it was Thursday..and it was getting on in the evening and there were no cars in the lot..but according to what I'd been told,the pastor and his family lived across the street..so I pulled into the yard that seemed to be closest to the church..moving slowly around the large circular drive, taking in the user friendly grounds,the barn and the garden..the tools,shed and such..but no sign of life besides the chickens.It seemed awful quiet for a place with all those bicycles and toys scattered about.

I heard,"They aren't home right now. Drive out and check the house next door." So I pulled back out onto the street..this time seeing an older man opening the passenger door of a car which was parked in front of the house next door parallel to the street..leaving the driveway free..I pulled into it..stuck my head out the window and called,"Pastor?"

His head came up out of that car..a curious look on his face..again."Pastor?"He walked slowly towards us smiling but still curious..I could see that he was advanced in age..a kindly soul."Yes can I help you?"

I told him that I was hoping he could..and told him of our need for shelter for the night..how I'd come to be where I was because of the directions given at the store.He explained that he was a retired pastor..just returning home early from a boating trip in Mexico where they went every year..they'd just gotten there when they'd had a boating accident..his wife had hurt her back..badly and they'd had to come home..but that he would ask her if she felt up to having us..wouldn't we like to come inside? So the children tumbled out of the car and we followed him inside.

His tall but stooped over wife greeted us cheerfully in the living room,asking us to pleas be seated and would we like a soda..the children looked at me..normally sodas were out..too sweet...but they could share one between themselves..cups where brought from the kitchen..she was obviously in pain,though was doing her best to hide this fact. I spoke of how God was leading me and why..of the sign and the leading from the store,they listened,smiling at the story and went off to discuss this alone,together.It was agreed that we would stay..but that because of her back she wouldn't be able to serve us dinner so they'd phoned next door,we would go over to the pastor's place now that they'd gotten home from errands..where they'd agreed to serve us dinner along with their large and boisterous family..Great! With that settled,the pastoral couple asked if I would like a tour of the house and to see the room where I would be sleeping..they would make a bed in the living room for my two eldest.My nursing son would sleep with me. When I stepped into the bedroom where I would be sleeping I almost wept..there was an exact duplicate of the four poster canopy bed my mother had bought for me as a girl with her babysitting money..same gold trim on white..wow..I felt the presence of the Lord in that room..these people were so gentle, so sweet. The bed seemed like a special touch somehow.

After dinner and some fun exchanging of stories of God's greatness and love along with gardening tips and recipes with the folks nextdoor..we returned just as the last of the sun was setting over the horizon,to tuck the children into their places of rest. My hostess and I talked quietly about the things of God..like two schoolgirls catching up on the best news..then full of compassion..I'd been asking the Lord ever since I saw her pain and the uncomplaining way she'd so desired to serve us from her own table but simply could not..Would you heal her Lord..if I pray for her? Standing beside the bed..holding the clean nightgown she'd given me to wear..I asked her if she believed that God healed us when we prayed..Oh Yes! Would she mind if I laid hands on her to pray..she got me some oil..said she'd love it if I would..I believed with all my heart that God wanted to heal her..I told her so..her countenance lit up so much that she was beaming..the yrs faded and I felt as though I was seeing her many yrs before..we prayed..together..and went peacefully to bed.

The next morning I awoke to the happy sound of singing in the kitchen and the smell of bacon cooking. There she was standing as straight as can be..cooking pancakes on the griddle,gliding around the room like a dancer,as she busied herself in what I could see was one of her favorite things to do,cook meals for her family."Jesus healed my back!"No pain! all better! Smiling to beat the band we all were!I just knew it! Hallelujah! Glory to God who loves His people with an everlasting and faithful love..Who's power to heal is real and for now as it was in times past.

That morning's breakfast is etched upon my heart and mind forever..the quiet gentle manner of these two longtime servants of God..the sacred and holy atmosphere that presided at the table when we sat down and when the faithful pastor told us it was time to open the word..to read a passage from the book of Isaiah,I thought Nothing was better than this..the simplicity of surrendered disciplined lives..lived in servicxe to God and our fellowman..the lighthearted manner as we talked and joked..the children well behaved and eager to join in where they could..the easy comradeship and affection these two showed..this was a one flesh relationship that was a beauty to behold..this was the life!They blessed and thanked the Lord for sending someone all the way from northern New Mexico to come heal her right when they got home..I praised Him for His faithful and constant Presence..His eye for detail..his humor..the 15 dollars the family nextdoor had given us unsolicited.everyone was rejoicing in God's goodness.

Announcing that he would going to give the car a quick check for any signs of trouble..the pastor dismissed himself to look under the hood,clean the battery cables etc.I helped clear the table but was not allowed to help with the dishes. Waving goodbye to those two beautiful souls..I knew I would not see them again until we were in heaven.I also knew we would never forget each other and the way God had supplied where there had been need.. Christ moving in His body in fluid unison..each one for God,each one for the other..one heart..one mind..one spirit..One Lord.

May we all be encouraged to step out in obediant faith,trusting God to lead and guide us in all things..whether the signs..so funny that timely sign..proceed or follow..He is still performing wonders for all indiscriminately..there were more miracles that abounded on that 12 day journey..as we stayed ever listening for the Lord's direct guidance..His gently leading hand upon our lives,meeting the needs of others as we went on with Him,but this was my very favorite from that time.He still moves the same way in my life..spontaneously..and without respecter of persons...for the saving of the lost or just for the comfort of His saints..He is not miserly with His goodness. God shows Himself merciful to those who are merciful. Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ..the King of kings..and the Lord of lords..my best Friend forever!

This is wigglesworth and the ministry of Jesus;

..........."Read Luke 4:1-20.

Our precious Lord Jesus has everything for everybody. Forgiveness of sin, healing of diseases and the fullness of the Spirit all come from one sourcefrom the Lord Jesus Christ. Hear Him who is the same yesterday, today and forever as He announces the purpose for which He came: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he bath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor, he bath sent me to heal the broken-hearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, to preach the acceptable year of the Lord."

David

bro. Lowly wrote;

"What I love about Wigglesworth was that he was an earthen vessel who knew the heart of his Heavenly Father and the compassion of his Savior. He was moved when he saw the affliction of God's people. He was burdened when he saw the souls of men bound by the enemy.

He had a tremendous heart for the lost. When he was younger he used to stand out on a corner after work and pray. He waited on the Lord to show him who he should share the gospel with. He would not move until he was directed and shared Jesus with someone. He did this everyday and saw so many people repent, and believe in the atoning work of Christ.

A miracle is just a word we give for God's supernatural act. Did Jesus not show us the heart of His Father when He saw their affliction and reached out with mercy and lifted them out of their pit. Or released them from their prison, or healed them from their disease. Was it not lovingkindness for His own?

AMEN BRO !!!!!

David

hmmmhmmm wrote;

"Thank you David for your encouragement, and AMEN to what you say. May we all step out in faith believing God

Thank you too bro. God bless you and your family.

David

Destiny wrote;

"He still moves the same way in my life..spontaneously..and without respecter of persons...for the saving of the lost or just for the comfort of His saints..He is not miserly with His goodness. God shows Himself merciful to those who are merciful. Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ..the King of kings..and the Lord of lords..my best Friend forever!

ME TOO!!!

David

ejg wrote;

"I must agree here with Psalm1, it is with Wigglesworth's life or any of the other church hx giants, all had to drink from bitter cup. I wanna add that although we are say certain things here and we say it from our mouths, lip service is null-n-void.

We must go down to the dust, we must learn to "roll n sackcloth and ashes", it must become part of our life. All that we say, all that we chirp or make noise about is 100% clinking cymbols and sounding brass to God until we truly submit to the cup. Even with a good heart, yes he knows our heart, but the dust, that is falling to the ground must be a heart matter day after day until we in our own lives/selves can rise no more.

We will come up from the dust newly born, newly driven, new, brand new with life and heart felt burden..Then I believe that life will come.

Now, that is it in theory, but in reality we r to cry and plea and brake b4 HIm and everyone else we r acquainted with.

praises be to God

I agree!!!

David

I want to thank crsschk, Paul West and HmmHmm for their posts on Page 6. Each has spoken to me in different ways and I can relate to various things said by each person.

I thank each of you for your honest and level headed contributions.

In this story Jesus comes as healer and savior;

Wigglesworth recounts the story;

" I asked, "What do you want?" He said, "I wonder if I could ask you to pray for me." I said, "What's the trouble?" He said, "Can't you smell?" The young fellow had gone into sin and was suffering the consequences. He said, "I have been turned out of two hospitals. I am broken out all over. I have abscesses all over me." And I could see that he had a bad breaking out at the nose. He said, "I heard you preach, and could not understand about this healing business, and was wondering if there was any hope for me."

I said to him, "Do you know Jesus?" He did not know the first thing about salvation, but I said to him, "Stand still." I placed my hands on his head and then on his loins and cursed that terrible disease in the name of Jesus. He cried out, "I know I'm healed. I can feel a warmth and a glow all over me." I said, "Who did it?" He said, "Your prayers." I said, "No, it was Jesus!" He said, "Was it He? Oh, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus, save me." And that young man went away healed and saved. Oh, what a merciful God we have! What a wonderful Jesus is ours!

Are you oppressed? Cry out to God. It is always good for people to cry out. You may have to cry out. The Holy Ghost and the Word of God will bring to light every hidden, unclean thing that must be revealed. There is always a place of deliverance when you let God search out that which is spoiling and marring your life. That evil spirit that was in the man in the synagogue cried out, "Let us alone!" It was a singular thing that the evil spirit had never cried out like that until Jesus walked into the place where he was. Jesus rebuked the thing, saying, "Hold thy peace and come out of him," and the man was delivered. He is just the same Jesus, exposing the powers of evil, delivering the captives and letting the oppressed go free, purifying them and cleansing their hearts. Those evil spirits that inhabited the man who had the legion did not want to be sent to the pit to be tormented before their time, and so they cried out to be sent into the swine. Hell is such an awful place that even the demons hate the thought of going there. How much more should men seek to be saved from the pit?

God is compassionate and says, "Seek ye the Lord while He may be found." And He has further stated, "Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Seek Him now, call on His name right now, and there is forgiveness, healing, redemption, deliverance, and everything you need for you right here and now, and that which will satisfy you throughout eternity.

David

Hi David,

Must mention a couple of things but first wanted to draw from the archives a couple of previous related postings;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=14851&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]power of the word of God - wigglesworth[/url]

Another with even more corresponding links;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=21842&forum=35&post_id=&refresh=Go]Smith Wigglesworth[/url]

And where I now recall drawing off the aspect of 'enigma';

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=11557&forum=40&post_id=&refresh=Go]The Enigma of William M Branham[/url] [i]By Andrew Strom[/i]

David, wanted to thank you for drawing these clips of Wigglesworth out as you have done because of the challenge they present. Certainly the balance and the staying off of extremisms has it points, but it also can have it's perils ... Maybe the best analogy I could present is something I recall Zac Poonen mentioning when he preached nearby last year. His message(s) was on "What Jesus Taught About Money". And at one point he was discussing and drawing from George Mueller, how he never asked for money and yet was always supplied for the work he did in the orphanages, for all things. He prayed, believed and trusted God for everything and was never disappointed. It would take the whole of the context of what Zac was discussing and this is just a bit of a paraphrase but his honesty came through when he said; "[i]I do not have the faith of a George Mueller[/i]". That was endearing in it's forth coming and Zac is no slouch in faith or trust, just sheer honesty.

Don't want to get bogged down in the attributes of ...

[i]For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.[/i] Rom 12:3

As true as it all is ... The challenge is in that, why do I not have more faith ... period? Not to measure by these great men of God but to draw off of them as examples, of the possibilities of faith, even to hear the redounding sound of the Lord;

"[i]Ye of little faith ... Why are ye fearful? ... why reason ye among yourselves ... If then God so clothe the grass, which is to day in the field, and to morrow is cast into the oven; how much more will he clothe you, O ye of little faith? ... Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?[/i]"

It's the littleness of, it's often the quick to dispel matters due to unbelief, to override or maybe apply too much caution rather than too little, one thing to be aware and not gullible, accepting everything without test or scriptural warrant and quite another to ...

[i]And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.[/i] Mar 9:24

To mirror Zac's sentiment, I do not have the faith of George Mueller nor that of Smith Wigglesworth ... far too often. And so I am challenged ...

Why not?

Up until three years ago I was not saved and into that Word of Faith heresy. Of course I thought i was saved. How scary eh?

During the last couple of years of my Word of faith adventure, I was looking to teach that stuff and I'll tell you I was vey sincere and loved the Lord, but really didn't understand the atonement and a true salvation message. You may say I truly didn't love the lord, but I really wanted to etc.

Now I said all that to comment on this thread: In my last two years of Word of Faith (3-5 years ago), Because i wanted to teach the stuff I thought an understanding of healing with results would make me (self centered) appear to others to have greater faith. In Word of Faith, the more results you get the higher your faith is. As an unsaved guy, I read Wigglesworth's books dozens of times and hundreds of hours of John G. Lakes sermons.

I read this stuff SO MUCH. I used to 'Feel' more spiritual while reading these guys. In fact i used some of Wigglesworths exact quotes to support my gambling problem. These guys contain zero salvation message and very little and most of the time nothing about holiness. They can draw the unsaved in for sure. Fallen man is always self centered.

I wanted to share that.

Do I read these guys today? Absolutely, but with an entirely different perspective. Many today that preach a strong holiness message are cessenist or minimize the gifts of the Spirit or ministering healing to an extreme. Preaching the cross of Jesus Christ is the key. It is not scriptual to abandon healing and deliverence though as some do.

I peronally like John G. lake better and I think some of his sermons are are a tremendous mix with studying the revivalist and shift over a bit more balance with a holiness and salvation message.

I do love the writings of these guys, but now I read them with true love for my Lord Jesus Christ.

Lord Bless

Robert

wigglesworth exhorting the brethren;

"Oh, this wonderful Jesus of ours! He comes and indwells us. He comes to abide. He it is who baptizes us with the Holy Ghost, and makes everything different. We are to be a kind of firstfruits unto God and are to be like Christ who is the firstfruit, walking in His footsteps, living in His power. What a salvation this is, having this risen Christ in us. I feel that everything else must go to nothingness, helplessness and ruin. Every thought of advantage for ourselves must be on the decrease in order that Christ may increase, that we may live in another state, where all things are under the power of the Spirit.

Dare you take your inheritance from God? Dare you believe God ? Dare you stand on the record of His Word? What is the record? If thou shalt believe thou shalt see the glory of God. You will be sifted as wheat. You will be tried as though some strange thing tried you. You will be put in places where you will have to put your whole trust in God. There is no such thing as anyone being tried beyond what God will allow. There is no temptation that will come, but God will be with you right in the temptation to deliver you, and when you have been tried, He will bring you forth as gold. Every trial is to bring you to a greater position in God. The trial that tries your faith will take you on to the place where you will know that the faith of God will be forthcoming in the next test. No man is able to win any victory save through the power of the risen Christ within him. You will never be able to say, "I did this or that." You will desire to give God the glory for everything.

David

Thank you Mike,
God bless you too brother!
Amen to those links and I was blessed by Paul West's Post;

" Re: power of the word of God - wigglesworth
I haven't seen Wigglesworth in these forums in a long, long time. Oh, this is so timely, brother. I don't know of any other preacher in modern history who had a more wonderful balance of purity and power. He lived to be 87 and till the very end he maintained a humble, holy life and remained utterly sold out to God. There is such a childlike purity in his teachings that always astounds me. A man must walk very close to God to have this simplicity! "

Amen Paul!!!

David

Healing salvation,the word,Jesus,......
What a combination!!!

"The Word can drive every disease away from your body. It is your portion in Christ, Him who is our bread, our life, our health, our all in all. Arid though you may be deep in sin, you can come to Him °n repentance, and He will forgive and cleanse and heal you. His words are spirit and life to those who will receive them. There is a promise in the last verse in Joel, "I will cleanse their blood that I have not cleansed." This is as much as to say He will provide new life within. The life of Jesus Christ, God's Son, can so purify men's hearts and minds that they become entirely transformed, spirit, soul and body.

David

still God heals people today, he may choose not to. But he may chose. Some have faith for that, some dont.

there are extremes on both sides with healing as with everything else.

But the christian life is supernatural life, both spiritual and in physical.

some may not have faith for healing, they wont get it. According to your faith be it on to you.

Maybe some peoples faith aint the real faith?

Plenty people who dont have genuine faith, saving faith. even thou they have "right" doctrines.

We so often "write of" some things to quickly. Its easy in these days when discernment is so needed due to all deceptions, we often throw out the baby with the bath water as they say.

God heals people, not all, some dies. God has wisdom to give to whom he choses.

But we all can ask for it,

Katy,

Read the healing scriptures.

Ex;

" 6And Annas the high priest, and Caiaphas, and John, and Alexander, and as many as were of the kindred of the high priest, were gathered together at Jerusalem.

7And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this?

8Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,

9If we this day be examined of the good deed done to the impotent man, by what means he is made whole;

10Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.

11This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.

12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

13Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.

14And beholding the man which was healed standing with them, they could say nothing against it.

There are tons of them. We need not apologise for Gods word.

If a loved one doesnt get saved that does not make Gods word a lie.....The same for healing.

Acts 4;

16Saying, What shall we do to these men? for that indeed a notable miracle hath been done by them is manifest to all them that dwell in Jerusalem; and we cannot deny it.

17But that it spread no further among the people, let us straitly threaten them, that they speak henceforth to no man in this name.

18And they called them, and commanded them not to speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus.

Who wants who to be silent???

David

Katy, one thing i have to admire in you is that you are second to none when it comes to conviction.
You are passionate about what you believe and its one reason I love you.

We are not in agreement on healing but thats OK I still appreciate your opinion.

I was saved in the charismatic movement and cut my teeth on the things of the spirit. So I am leaning a separate way of you.

I dont know any better than to want the fullness of the life in the spirit of God.

I believe there is no such danger of emphasizing the gifts as it is portrayed by certain people .

I am presenting only what I see the apostles presenting and i find it interesting that when arrested the apostles were accused of "Jesus the healer"

I believe Adam and eve were never sick until they"fell".
Therefore I believe sickness is a work of something other than God or his intent for man.

Jesus went about healing (i would guess) thousands.

Are the few we see healed somehow a threat?????

We are so , so ,so far from being "overboard" on healing , we would need millions healed to even think there could be some sort of lopsidedness.

David

Even faith can be worthless also, or "vain"

1Th 3:5 For this reason, when I could no longer endure it, I sent to know your faith, lest by some means the tempter had tempted you, and our labor might be in vain.

Also the bible says not all can heal, not all can speak in tongues and so on.

Not all christians get victory over sin, not all christians get healed , not all christians fulfill their life God had planned for them.

Was it Gods will for their life? no i dont think so, but so often we chose Gods second best. One reason may be we lacked the faith necessary. Of course we so often be like Adam and blaime God for our lack of faith, obidence or whatever it may be.

Sometime God may let us be sick to get something good out of it, God uses all things for good.

And sometimes we are sick because we have low faith, Jesus said according to your faith. Whos faith? his or mine?

how can it be according to mine if he dident give it to me?

God does not heal all people, that is quite clear.

but maybe many could have been healed, God wanted to heal them but the did not have faith for that. As brother mike wrote, "i dont have that kind faith"

Some do, some dont

salvation does not hang upon your physical wellbeing. We know that.

but i have come to believe all scripture and it says

2Co 1:20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.

So when i see a scripture that say we can walk as he walked I say amen! i want that

when i see scripture that say i can overcome all sin I say amen to that.

when i see a scripture that say i can get healed from sickness I say amen to that, i dont believe it is Gods will we be so sick we cant serve him. Some pains here and there is not to complain about as long as we can work.

when i see we can live a life above any of the people in OT i say amen to that.

When i see ALL the promises in the bible i say amen! i want that Lord.

what we need is faith.

we all need more dont we?

anyone who spent some time here or in books of old from men of old knows what God can do through ONE man or woman who had faith.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22874&forum=34]Living by faith - Poonen[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=20533&forum=35]Heart vs Head faith - Poonen (Video)[/url]

Katy, I suppose we will have to respect each others differences.

I, myself and others are encouraged by these inspiring stories of faith,salvation and testimonies of bro. Wigglesworth.

There is no heresy or harm,only inspiration ,of which we all need.

My vision is beyond the USA . the believers in some countries have NO medical.THEY HAVE TO BELIEVE FOR HEALING. So I will do my part to present Jesus with all his unlimited power.

David

this little story told by Wigglesworth is sorta humorous;

"I visited a woman who had been suffering for many years. She was all twisted up with rheumatism and had been two years in bed. I said to her, "What makes you lie here?" She said, "I've come to the conclusion that I have a thorn in the flesh." I said, "To what wonderful degree of righteousness have you attained that you have to have a thorn in the flesh? Have you had such an abundance of divine revelations that there is danger of your being exalted above measure ?" She said, "I believe it is the Lord who is causing me to suffer." I said, "You believe it is the Lord's will for you to suffer, and you are trying to get out of it as quickly as you can. There are doctor's bottles all over the place. Get out of your hidingplace and confess that you are a sinner. If you'll get rid of your self-righteousness, God will do something for you. Drop the idea that you are so holy that God has got to afflict you. Sin is the cause of your sickness and not righteousness. Disease is not caused by righteousness, but by sin."

David

I have some writtings on Smith Wigglesworth, i would like to share....would that be alright? I mean i don't want to step on anyone's toes, do you mind if i share i promise to keep it fashionable and to the core ;-)

I hate the idea that in Him is all fulness, and I could choose a thought process which causes me not to benefit from the outworking of that fulness - His fulness.

Because if we didn’t walk in this fullness in the fullness of Christ we would be in essence exercising Gnosticism, are we not to shine as the City of Lights, when we stand in this fullness?

and you know you received Gods grace when

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

so in that sense wrong is put right here on earth

here wigglesworth brings an excellent word ;

"There is healing through the blood of Christ and deliverance for every captive. God never intended His children to live in misery because of some affliction that comes directly from the devil. A perfect atonement was made at Calvary. I believe that Jesus bore my sins, and I am free from them all. I am justified from all things if I dare believe. He Himself took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses; and if I dare believe, I can be healed.

See this poor, helpless man at the pool. "Wilt thou be made whole?" But there is a difficulty in the way. The man has one eye on the pool and one on Jesus. There are many people getting cross-eyed this way these days; they have one eye on the doctor and one on Jesus. If you will only look to Christ and put both your eyes on Him you can be made every whit whole, spirit, soul and body. It is the word of the living God that they that believe should be justified, made free from all things. And whom the Son sets free is free indeed.

You say, "Oh, if I only could believe!" He understands. Jesus knew he had been a long time in that case. He is full of compassion. He knows that kidney trouble, He knows those corns, He knows that neuralgia. There is nothing He does not know. He only wants a chance to show Himself merciful and gracious to you. But He wants to encourage you to believe Him. If thou canst only believe, thou canst be saved and healed. Dare to believe that Jesus was wounded for your transgressions, was bruised for your iniquities, was chastised that you might have peace, and that by His stripes there is healing for you right here and now. You have failed because you have not believed Him. Cry out to Him even now, "Lord, I believe, help Thou mine unbelief."

David

Katy;

I dont know why the salvation issue??????

Salvation is not my or your idea of doctrinal purity!!!

Salvation is a person....JESUS.

JESUS is salvation
Jesus is healing
Jesus is the resurrection.

20Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Jesus is our high priest .....OFFICE

Jesus does things besides save people

THESE ARE PRIESTLY DUTIES

Why are you continually laying foundation??

Notice believers ministry..............

" 1Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

3And this will we do, if God permit.

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

7For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:

8But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.

9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

10For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

Foundation has purpose,but if you return to the jobsite and the workers are on their eighth foudation?????

No building!!!

David

This article was taken from "scotwise"

What an amazing man of God Smith Wigglesworth was, he never read a book or a newspaper, only the Bible! He diligently applied what he read to his ministry which lasted almost seventy years. Many people came to Christ through his preaching and many were healed and set free from bondage!

Many Christians today, pride themselves on their vast knowledge of theology and never do anything with it, except maybe to write a book in agreement or disagreement with other theologians, and discounting the miracle working power of the Holy Spirit.
Smith Wigglesworth took the word of God seriously, he studied the word diligently, day and night, not to argue or debate what man would say, but to put into practice by faith, what the word of God instructs us to do, and especially the commands of Christ Jesus...
scotwise

David

Another article;

Smith's ministry was characterised by his unwavering faith in God. He was able to believe for the impossible, and yet his one main concern was that God should always get the glory and not himself. His humility was a genuine concern for not stealing that which belonged to his heavenly father. Among the many stories that are recounted about his life, including people being raised from the dead, deaf ears being opened and captives being set free, there is one story that has captivated the heart and mind of many a Christian. This story is recounted below.

Surely one of the most remarkable cases of a miracle was when Smith was staying at the home of a curate of the Church of England. The man with whom he was staying had no legs. Smith suddenly said to the man, " Go and buy a new pair of shoes in the morning." A most astounding thing to say to someone with no legs. No doubt thinking Smith was totally insane the curate retired to bed, and then the Lord spoke to him saying " Do as my servant hath said."
The curate rose early the next morning and was waiting at the shoe store when the manage arrived to open up. Upon entering the store he was approached by the assistant who asked if he could help him. The curate replied he would like a pair of shoes. The assistant realising the condition of the man hesitated, before replying that they could not help him, obviously referring to his condition...
The curate seeing his dilemma said: " I would like a pair of black shoes, size eight please." The assistant returned with the shoes and as he put his one stump into the shoe a foot and leg instantly formed. The same thing happened with his other leg.Smith was not surprised and his comment was that with God there is no difference between healing a broken limb and forming a new limb.
scotwise

David

Does anyone remember this song?

O God of burning, cleansing flame, Send the fire

Your blood - bought gift today we claim, Send the fire today

God of Elijah, hear our cry, Send the fire

And make us fit to live or die, send the fire today

To burn up every trace of sin, to bring the light and glory in

The revolution now begins, Send the fire today

It's fire we want, for fire we plead, Send the fire

The fire will meet our every need, Send the fire today

Give us strength to always do what's right,

And grace to conquer in the fight

for power to walk this world in white, Send the fire today

Look down and see this waiting host

And send the promised Holy Ghost

We need another Pentecost, Send the fire today

To make our weak hearts strong and brave, Send the fire

To live a dying world to save, Send the fire

Lord, we're here tonight and we're on Your alter, Send the fire

We give our lives to You today, Send the fire

Send the fire today!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

David

A man once said:

"How can you call yourselves Christians and be so mean?"

We need to sit back, relax and buy some gold refined in the fire. Take the time to be acquainted with the Holy Spirit and the Word.

this is good;

"Faith is just the open door through which the Lord comes. Do not say, "I was healed by faith." Faith does not save. God saves through that open door. Healing comes the same way. You believe, and the virtue of Christ comes. Healing is for the glory of God. I am here because God healed me when I was dying; and I have been all round the world preaching this full redemption, doing all I can to bring glory to the wonderful name of Jesus, through whom I was healed.

"Sin no more, lest a worse thing come upon thee." The Lord told us in one place about an evil spirit going out from a man. The house that he left got all swept arid garnished, but it received no new occupant. And that evil spirit, with seven other spirits more wicked than himself, went back to that unoccupied house, and the last stage of the man was worse than the first. The Lord does not heal you to go to a baseball game or to a race meet. He heals you for His glory and that from henceforth your life shall glorify Him. But this man remained stationary. He did not magnify God. He did not seek to be filled with the Spirit. And his last state became worse than the first.

The Lord would so cleanse the motive and desires of our hearts that we will seek but one thing only, and that is, His glory. I went to a certain place one day and the Lord said, "This is for My glory." A young man had been sick for along time confined to his bed in an utterly hopeless condition. He was fed only with a spoon, and was never dressed. The weather was damp, and so I said to the people of the house, "I wish you would put the young man's clothes by the fire to air." At first they would not take any notice of my request, but because I was persistent, they at last got out his clothes, and, when they were aired, I took them into his room.
..............wigglesworth

David

I wanted to re-post this,does anyone know who wrote this song?;

O God of burning, cleansing flame, Send the fire

Your blood - bought gift today we claim, Send the fire today

God of Elijah, hear our cry, Send the fire

And make us fit to live or die, send the fire today

To burn up every trace of sin, to bring the light and glory in

The revolution now begins, Send the fire today

It's fire we want, for fire we plead, Send the fire

The fire will meet our every need, Send the fire today

Give us strength to always do what's right,

And grace to conquer in the fight

for power to walk this world in white, Send the fire today

Look down and see this waiting host

And send the promised Holy Ghost

We need another Pentecost, Send the fire today

To make our weak hearts strong and brave, Send the fire

To live a dying world to save, Send the fire

Lord, we're here tonight and we're on Your alter, Send the fire

We give our lives to You today, Send the fire

Send the fire today!

David

William Booth, founder of the Salvation Army

a healing testimony;

Wiggleswworth;
"At a meeting I was holding, the Lord was working and many were being healed. A man saw what was taking place and remarked, "I'd like to try this thing." He came up for prayer and told me that his body was broken in two places. I laid my hands on him in the name of the Lord, and said to him, "Now, you believe God." The next night he was at meeting and he got up like a lion. He said, "I want to tell you people that this man here is deceiving you. He laid his hands on me last night for rupture in two places, but I'm not a bit better." I stopped him and said, "You are healed, your trouble is that you won't believe it."

He was at meeting the next night and when there was opportunity for testimony this man arose. He said, "I'm a mason by trade. Today I was working with a laborer and he had to put a big stone in place. I helped him and did not feel any pain. I said to myself, `How have I done it?' I went away to a place where I could strip, and found that I was healed." I told the people, "Last night this man was against the Word of God, but now he believes it. It is true that these signs shall follow them that believe, they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover. And all through the power that is in the name of Christ." It is the Spirit who has come to reveal the Word of God, and to make it spirit and life to us.

Amen!!

David

Wigglesworth was strong on devotion ,prayer and the word;

Bible Reading-Acts 6.

In the days when the number of disciples began to be multiplied there developed a situation which caused the twelve to make a definite decision not to occupy themselves with serving tables, but to give themselves continually to prayer and to the ministry of the Word. How important it is for all God's ministers to be continually in prayer, and constantly feeding on the Scriptures of Truth. I often offer a reward to anyone who can catch me anywhere without my Bible or my Testament.

None of you can be strong in God unless you are diligently and constantly hearkening to what God has to say to you through His Word. You cannot know the power and the nature of God unless you partake of His inbreathed Word. Read it at morn and at night, and at every opportunity you get. After every meal, instead of indulging in unprofitable conversation round the table, read a chapter from the Word and then have a season of prayer. I endeavor to make a point of doing this no matter where or with whom I am staying.

David

Wigglesworth on Gods word, the Holy Spirit, and the destiny of the believer;

The Psalmist said that he had hid God's Word in his heart, that he might not sin against Him; and you will find that the more of God's Word you hide in your heart, the easier it is to live a holy life. He also testified that God's Word would quickened him; and, as you receive God's Word into your being, your whole physical being will be quickened and you will be made strong. As you receive with meekness the Word, you will find faith upspringing within. And you will have life through the Word.

The twelve told the rest to sepatate out seven men to look after the business end of things. They were to be men of honest report and filled with the Holy Ghost. These were just ordinary men who were chosen, but they were filled with the Holy Spirit, and this infilling always lifts a man to a plane above the ordinary. It does not take a cultured or a learned man to fill a position in God's church; what God requires is a yielded, consecrated, holy life, and He can make of such a flame of fire. Baptized with the Holy Ghost and fire!

The multitude chose out seven men to serve tables. They were doubtless faithful in their appointed tasks, but we see that God soon had a better choice for two of them. Philip was so full of the Holy Ghost that he could have a revival wherever God put him down. Man chose him to serve tables, but God chose him to win souls. O, if I could only stir you up to see that as you are faithful in performing the humblest office, God can fill you with His Spirit and make you a chosen vessel for Himself, and promote you to a place of mighty ministry in the salvation of souls and in the healing of the sick. There is nothing impossible to a man filled with the Holy Ghost. It is beyond all human comprehension. When you are filled with the power of the Holy Ghost, God will wonderfully work wherever you go.

David

Thank you Jesus for the Holy Spirit , a million thanks for all you have done for us!!!

Words cannot express your beauty and loveliness.

David

the flowers are blooming in my area. They are everywhere.

They reach as high as they can lifting up their beauty to the heavens to adore their creator.

All creation worships you Jesus.

David

They reach as high as they can lifting up to the heavens to adore their creator. All creation worships you Jesus.

The fragrance of your mood today is sweet, brother. Keep it coming. Flowers are good! My cucumber vines are growing; I think seeds and soil and the principle of growth and bloom and fruit yielding contain all the essence of God's miraculous at work in the mortal sphere. Flowers are good!

maybe you are not aware of this , but I do not answer every thread here on SI. As a matter of fact, very few. Why...because I do not know the answer to all of these threads. But those I do, comes from HEART knowledge, not head.

Anyone can comment on anything from the head...but the Heart comes from a personal relationship...wrought in.

Your words do not convey this truth but the opposite.

[i]A foolish son is ruin to his father, and a wife's quarreling is a continual dripping of rain.[/i] Pro 19:13

[i]A continual dripping on a rainy day and a quarrelsome wife are alike; to restrain her is to restrain the wind or to grasp oil in one's right hand.[/i] Pro 27:15,16

Could but pray otherwise that this would be taken to heart but it is a wearing exercise that you continue to be obstinate, haughty and proud. What is refused to be looked at is just your culpability and constant berating, oneupmanship over and over again. You will admit to no fault but defend yourself tirelessly even in the face of such glaring observations. Everything has a retort, an excuse or good reason behind it. Now it's a doctrinal assertion that you will hide behind, often it is, and yet you will speak as though they are from "heart knowledge". In no way do you convey this. You overstep your bounds as a woman as did many of your defenders who became offended and emotional that [i]For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again[/i] and left, not without making sure that everyone was informed of the great evil supposed in their imagination was laid out for good measure, "the last word" had been spoken.

To your credit, at least you had the fortitude to not join in their folly. It was never addressed to them in the first place. What is thought to be known and what was laid out as accusation, how things might be dealt with here and what might be going on amongst the moderators at any given moment seemingly something that is a "right to know" and even more so a demand. I have no sympathy for evil imaginations nor prying over what amounts to 'none of your business'.

Don't you ever Judge me or anyone again!!!!! Katy

On the contrary, everyone is judged. I am well fed up with this idea that some sisters think they can argue like men until they are called on it and then revert back to being feminine and unsheathe a "How dare you" mindset for doing so. If you cannot stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

But it goes further than this and applies more broadly. Over and over again these discussions are not discussions at all but debates of the wrong sort and the wrong spirit. It was brought up recently the matter of a 'critical spirit', it is that and yet it is more. It is at the same time an unwillingness to suffer perceived wrong and lack of any spiritual backbone that cannot, will not accept correction or even dare say criticism. The abundance of defending, 'self-defense' is more grievous than the 'offense' presumably given in the first place.

What appears to be the greatest blight upon many of us is that we will just not become truly honest about matters. We can be more hypocritical spiritually than we know or will frankly admit to.

This may be a bit confusing to others not privy to some of the recent upheaval that had some offended and leaving this confine but I want to set some matters clear here. Even in the midst of
the imaginative accusations and insinuations which by attempting to defend would only perpetrate more and more of the same, namely confusion and strife there is a refusal to defend any of it. Let the misconstruing be what it is, let the misunderstandings be what they are. The whole point here is that there was still truth to be told even in the outbursts. There are indeed failings on our part, more so on my part as a moderator here. Some things should have been handled differently. Indeed I often have a penchant for long worded, rambling expressions. I know that I am wrong, have done wrong and been overtly critical. I failed time and again. There are no 'buts' about it. I repent of it and repent before all of you, never lightly but without an adequate expression to convey just how much all these things that take place here effect me personally.

No one should ever need to leave this forum but there is no doubt that some cannot control themselves. If there is anything lacking and a constant irritant from 5 years of observation here it is the withholding of confession. Where many of us err is in attempting to force one. I may be the most guilty of all in these attempts.

So who is haughty, obstinate and proud? Why it is me myself! I wouldn't dare to speak of it if I didn't have a well to draw from and a certain measure of experience to even attempt to speak from.

We need to face some hard truths about ourselves and our opinions and our ability to receive correction from each other. The minute we come back with a defending retort as our first inclination ought to be telling us something. It ought to tell us first of all that we have not even considered, that we frankly do not want to hear anything that might turn us out as uninformed, lacking knowledge, immature, peevish, quarrelsome, contentious ... My God, what will people think of me? And therein lies the problem. We are often protective of our poor selfish psyche's and perceive everything as injury, criticism for criticisms sake, judging ... on and on it goes. Some of it is indeed of a wrong, critical spirit and that 'spirit' if we need to categorize it this way needs it's own sharp criticism leveled at it.

Unfortunately and I know we love things laid out in nice, easy to comprehend, step by step manners but the truth is, none of it is easy, simplistic or without 'hurt'. It is the price we will have to pay to become more and more honest.

No revival without confession.

Hi Dorcas,

I didn't notice at first but yes I didn't mean to post that part.

It is the first part of another story.

OOps!

David

I hope I got it straight this time. Here is the full story from page 11.;

The Lord would so cleanse the motive and desires of our hearts that we will seek but one thing only, and that is, His glory. I went to a certain place one day and the Lord said, "This is for My glory." A young man had been sick for along time confined to his bed in an utterly hopeless condition. He was fed only with a spoon, and was never dressed. The weather was damp, and so I said to the people of the house, "I wish you would put the young man's clothes by the fire to air." At first they would not take any notice of my request, but because I was persistent, they at last got out his clothes, and, when they were aired, I took them into his room.

The Lord said to me, "You will have nothing to do with this;" and I just lay out prostrate on the floor. The Lord showed me that He was going to shake the place with His glory. The very bed shook. I laid my hands on the young man in the name of Jesus, and the power fell in such a way that I fell with my face to the floor. In about a quarter of an hour the young man got up and walked up and down praising God. He dressed himself and then went out to the room where his father and mother were. He said, "God has healed me." Both the father and mother felt prostrate to the floor as the power of God surged through that room. There was a woman in that house who had been in an asylum for lunacy, and her condition was so bad that they were about to take her back. But the power of God healed her, too. The power of God is just the same today as of old. Men need to be taken back to the old paths, to the oldtime faith, to believe God's Word and every "Thus saith the Lord" therein. The Spirit of the Lord is moving in these days. God is coming forth. If you want to be in the rising tide, you must accept all God has said.

"Wilt thou be made whole?" It is Jesus who asks it. Give Him your answer. He will hear and He will answer.

David

The funny thing is all we have to love,as far as this forum, is each others sentences.

But the obstacle is ,there are people connected to the sentences.

We are required to reach beyond ourselves.
No! we are required to crucify ourselves.
This is not through our own strength. It is allowing the Holy Spirit access.

And it is in that strength we do reach beyond ourselves.

Did i say that right?

David

PaulWest wrote:

They reach as high as they can lifting up to the heavens to adore their creator. All creation worships you Jesus.

The fragrance of your mood today is sweet, brother. Keep it coming. Flowers are good! My cucumber vines are growing; I think seeds and soil and the principle of growth and bloom and fruit yielding contain all the essence of God's miraculous at work in the mortal sphere. Flowers are good!

If you guys only knew the real me!

just kidding!

But seriously, I am one of those christians that has to walk real close to His (garment hem)

If not I am truly a walking disaster.

A pastor I knew said one time (bro. Nash) in answer to a question; How do you know if it is time to leave a fellowship?

Bro Nash thought for a second,then replied" right about the time they find you out!"

He was an awesome pastor.

David

The Lord showed me recenty,that when we cheat someone for our personal gain.
It is no different than what Judas did.(he sold out Jesus for money)

David

With that, I am requesting from SI to be removed from this web site.

Why do people just leave like this? I have never understood it. Why not just take a month or two break?

I've never understood the point of deleting an account unless that person was being booted by a mod. Since you want your account deleted are you saying that you will never come back to SI and never want to partake in any discussion? If you ever plan on coming back, just leave you account and it will be there waiting on you.

Katy,

Hang in. Dont quit. I know many brethren here love you and i do too!!!!!

We will work it out!!!!

David

Katy said;

I do hope you find YOUR ministry David and don't spend your whole life drooling over someone elses...God may have something different for you....

And I thought that stuff on my shirt was sweat!

David

Katy,

I owe you an apology. I meant what I said but do not believe I said what I meant. It certainly made sense this morning but as the day wore on ...

The man of God should know when it is appropriate to voice his concerns and he should know when to keep silent. He must be able to discern the listening crowd and gauge how effectively his convictions will be interpreted. It could be that his convictions are truly of God, mature and accurate, but to share them at that moment would be placing them out of season, and hence, unsalted (no pun intended). This is normally when the backbiting starts, and the flesh moves. We see it in these forums a lot.

Paul West stated here better than I could and where I erred. Had gone back and begun to delete the post but hesitated to cancel it. It is something that we do not really approve of, removing posts, for the most part preferable to leave them be and make corrections. I find it regrettable in a mixed sort of way. It was poorly handled.

If it was up to me, I am denying your request, but asking you to accept mine, forgive me.

Dear brethren,

Just for the record, I didn't write the paragraph about "backbiting" with this particular thread in mind or with Katy in mind; it was just a general, unrelated comment about what can readily happen in these forums when people speak unsavory words and out of turn. And I think Mike understood it as such. It's good that all this is coming to air now. Many issues and contentions in these forums can be easily remedied and prevented if we'd just [i]gird up the loins of our minds[/i] and post hesitatingly, and with much discretion.

The truth is that the majority of my posts are deleted even before they see light in this public medium. I can't tell you how many times I've had to click "cancel post" after typing out a good rebuke or some bit of flashy wit or educated drivel - and the posts that [i]do[/i] manage make it in are, even then, more often than not irretrievably regretted. The principle I seek therefore is to submit less but with a higher quality. We should discipline ourselves to post sparingly, as if each post of ours were like a gold coin, something of ourselves that we toss into a public well and which can never again be retrieved and put back in the pocket. The indiscreet person empties his or her pockets before all, and this usually amounts to great shame afterwards. How many brothers and sisters here wish they could go back into the archives and zap a few embarassing posts, get some [i]unminted[/i] gold coins back to set in the furnace a bit longer?

I know I would...

Sorry to divert your thread, David. Back to the discussion.

John Alexander Dowie –

Dowie was an apostle who didn’t have the complete understanding of that office. The anointing he carried pierced the religious theocracies of his day, but there were few who understood him, including himself. As a result, he misunderstood several administrations that came with the passion of his office. One passion was in the area of politics.

Dowie’s leadership was gaining a strong national influence. So seeing his potential and knowing his stand, the Temerance Society asked him to run for Parliament. At first, he opposed the idea. But he later changed his mind, thinking he could possibly influence more in the political arena and decided to enter the race.

But Dowie suffered a sound defeat in the elections. The local newspapers that had been so damaged by his ministry waged an all-out attack against him. The politicians and alcoholic beverage industry paid untold amounts of money to see him slandered and defeated. After the election, Dowie had wounded his church, and disgraced his ministry.

Dowie was moved by such strong spiritual yearnings that the sought to fulfill them in the natural. I can only speculate why he made this move. It could have been because the church world wasn’t grasping the truth fast enough to satisfy him. Whatever his reason, he misread the timing and plan of God for his ministry.

We need to understand that God has a central point from which every aspect of our lives operate, whether individually or corporately. That area is called “timing”. From the operation of that one word, lives can move forward with God or be hindered. Nations can advance spiritually, or regress. Life in the spirit realm has timing to it just as life in the natural. Therefore, it is vitally important for us to follow the leading or our spirit. We must lean that it’s not always right to move into action because it seems like the thing to do. This kind of obedience only comes from season of prayer and intercession.

Politicians and the political arena have never changed the world, church wise or governments-wise. Only a people whose hearts are changed by the Gospel can transform civil laws and regulations. Politics are meant for compromise to please people as a whole. The apostolic office presents the Word of the Lord, and then it is up to the people to conform to and follow it. The apostolic and political don’t mix. Dowie with his calling, should have never resorted to a political lifestyle.

While campaigning for office, Dowie also neglected his commandment to preach divine healing. He simply steered away from his calling to pursue a personal goal, thinking he could reach a greater mass of people. And as a result, the rest of his time in Australia was spent in darkness and futility.

====

Smith Wigglesworth –

Seeking God with all his heart to experience this “baptism in the Holy Spirit”, Smith went to a local Salvation Army building to pray. Three times he was struck to the floor by the power of God. The Salvationists warned him against speaking in tongues, but Smith was determined to know God in this realm. Four days he sought the Lord expecting to speak in other tongues, but to no avail. Finally, discouraged in his spirit, he felt it was time to return to Bradford. But before his departure, he went to the parsonage to tell the vicar’s wife, Mrs. Boddy, good-bye. He told her that he had to go home and didn’t get to speak in tongues. She answered, “It is not the tongues you need, but the baptism”. Smith asked her to lay hands on him before he left. She prayed a simple but powerful prayer, and then left the room. It was then that the fire fell. Bathed in the power and glory of the Lord, Smith saw a vision of the empty cross with Jesus exalted at the right hand of the Father. Filled with worship and praise, Smith opened his mouth and began to speak in other tongues, finally realizing that even though he had received an anointing earlier, he was now baptized in the Holy Spirit as one the day of Pentecost.

Instead of going home, Smith went straight to the church where Rev Boddy was conducting the service. Interrupting, he begged to speak for a moment. When he finished his “sermon” fifty people were gloriously baptized in the Holy Spirit and spoke with other tongues. The local newspaper, the Sunderland Daily Echo, headlined the meeting, giving detailed accounts of Smith’s experience, including the tongues and the healings. He telegraphed his home, telling them of the great news.

Another Secret

Smith Wigglesworth was a man greatly moved by compassion. As he received prayer requests from all over the world he would cry out to God and weep on their behalf. Many times, as he ministered to the afflicted, tears ran down his cheeks. He was also very tender with children and the elderly. In his services, when the heat became stifling, he felt great compassion and would call for the babies and the elderly to be prayed for first.

Demonstrating the truths in Acts 19:11-12, thousands upon thousands were healed by Smith prayer and sent handkerchiefs to those he couldn’t visit. An intimate friend spoke of the sincerity and compassion portrayed by Smith, saying, “When…the time for the opening of the letters came, we all had to stop whatever we were doing and get under the burden. There was nothing rushed or slipshod about his methods…. Everybody in the house must join in the prayers and lay hands on the handkerchiefs sent out to the suffering ones. They were treated as though the writers were present in person.

====

Aimee Semple McPherson –

While Aimee was in Baltimore a national healing campaign began. Incredible and highly unusual miracles occurred. The headlines screamed the results of each meeting.

It has been said that when Aimee would enter the hall before a meeting, there were often throngs of desperately ill people seeking to touch her. And that when she saw them, she would run back overwhelmed into her dressing room to pray for God’s help.

Everywhere Aimee went, crowds pressed in to touch her. She would watch in regret as the police were forced to bolt the doors in trying to protect her.

After a while, when she closed her eyes at night, all she could see was the seventeen hundred people who were packed into a place that was built to hold a thousands. She would see the alters and basements overflowing with the sick and would wake up thinking of how Jesus had dealt with al this.

Robert traveled extensively, but corresponded regularly with Aimee throughout the winter. Then in the early spring of 1908, Robert returned to Ingersoll and proposed to her. In fact, he proposed to Aimee in the same house in which she received the baptism a few months earlier. Six months later on August 12, 1908, Aimee married Robert in her family’s farmhouse near Salford, Ontario.

Aimee would not finish high school because of her love for Semple. In fact, she left behind everything in order to love, honor, and obey her new husband. Robert was all she needed for a fulfilled and enriching life.

HE WAS MY THEOLOGICAL SEMINARY, she would later write, “my spiritual mentor, and my tender, patient, unfailing lover.”

Before their marriages, Aimee and Robert had convinced her parents that speaking in other tongues was scriptural. But it took much more to convince Minnie of God’s will concerning the couple’s call to China.

In preparation for their trip, Robert worked in a factory by day and preached by night. Soon, his ministry took them to London, Ontario, where they ministered in homes.

====

Kathryn Kuhlmn –

The moment Kathryn saw in God’s Word that healing was provided for the believer at the same as salvation, she began to understand the Christian’s relationship with the Holy Spirit. In 1947 she began teaching a series on the Holy Spirit. Some of the things she said during the first night of her teaching were revelations even to her. Later she spoke of being awake all that night, praying and reading more in the Word.

The second night of her meeting was a momentous occasion. A unique testimony had been given by someone who was healed in a Kathryn Kuhlman meeting. A women stood up and told of having been healed while Kathryn preached the night before. Without anyone laying hands on her and without Kathryn even being aware of what was happening, this women was healed of a tumor. The women had gone to her doctor to confirm her healing before the evening service.

In 1950, a worldwide ministry began to develop. In later years, Kathryn said that God didn’t call her to build a church, maintaing that her ministry was not to be isolated to any one building. Some may be called to build buildings, but she wasn’t one of those.

The fact that she did build churches was largely overshadowed by the publicity of the miracle services. The Kathryn Kuhlman Foundation, established in Pittsburgh, financed more than twenty churches in foreign mission fields with nationals as pastors.

Many called her ‘pastor’ out of love and respect, but Kathryn was never ordained to the office of pastor. After her stay in Denver, she never pastured a church. Kathryn said she was not called to a five-fold office, (i.e., Ephesians 4:11) She walked in the simplicity of being a “a handmaiden” of the Lord.

It is said by those closest to her, that Kathryn announced at the very beginning of her ministry, that she would be the next Aimee Semple McPherson, founder of the Four Square denomination. Aimee was definitely Kathryn’s role model. When the flamboyant “Sister” built Angelus Temple in Los Angeles, Kathryn was present during it’s highest popularity. It is said that Kathryn attended Aimee’s Bible School, and sat in the balcony of her church, taking in every aspect of the anointed messages and theatrics of “Sister”. Unlike the other L.I.F.E Bible School students, Kathryn chose not to stay with the Four Square denomination. She chose an independent route.

I like this testimony of Wigglesworth;

Bible Reading-Acts 5:1-20.

Notice this expression that the Lord gives of the Gospel message-"the words of this life." It is the most wonderful life possible-the life of faith in the Son of God. This is the life where God is all the time. He is round about and He is within. It is the life of many revelations and of many manifestations of God's Holy Spirit, a life in which the Lord is continually seen, known, felt and heard. It is a life without death, for "we have passed from death unto life." The very life of God has come within us. Where that life is within in its fullness, disease cannot exist. It would take me a month to tell out what there is in this wonderful life. Everyone can go in and possess and be possessed by this life.

It is possible for you to be within the vicinity of this life and yet miss it. It is possible for you to be in a place where God is pouring out His Spirit and yet miss the blessing that God is so willing to bestow. It all comes through shortness of revelation and through a misunderstanding of the infinite grace of God, and of the "God of all grace," who is willing to give to all who will reach out the hand of faith. This life that He freely bestows is a gift. Some think they have to earn it and they miss the whole thing. Oh, for a simple faith to receive all that God so lavishly offers. You can never be ordinary from the day you receive this life from above. You become extraordinary, filled with the extraordinary power of our extraordinary God.

Katy,

Hesitatingly will I attempt this ...

just because someone doesn't like a person's personal conviction ((based on Scripture)), is that person fair game, when they are involved in any subject...for another to intrude with this kind of behavior, with a drive by, hit and run, without consequence?

It is indeed ill-advised and wrong. Frankly and though perhaps a bit differently, this is often the very issue that is brought to bear in many of your posts. Character assassination is or can be woeful, if that is the intention, but our character does come through in whatever we write, one way or another. It may be completely misunderstood, it may be close to the truth, it may cause us to ... pause for consideration, if we are willing to bear it. Certainly the manner. My case in point being the great failing example here, that which has caused much grief and sadness. It is often what is railed at in this setting. The strife and commotion, debate rather than discussion ... My foolishness was in adding to it, handling it poorly ...

Apply the same reasoning if I may shorten it a little;

just because someone doesn't like a person's personal conviction ((based on Scripture)), is that person fair game, when they are involved in any subject...for another to intrude with ...

Reams of scripture being posted, a constant harping at matters, the tendency to hijack a post, whatever it may be in intention, it often conveys a certain attitude. Again, it may be completely far from the intent, but so it appears. Apply it broadly, not just in this instance. What of your intrusion? Or mine for that matter ...

If you are to be a fair and just Moderator, you would have seen Julian as the character assassinator who's comments introduced ..or possibly wanted to, a spirit of contention that was never here before that moment.

"Never here before that moment". Look to your own contributions, go back and read all that you have written. Apply the same to yourself. The uncredited article that was first introduced. Are we to take your assessment as 'gospel' on your word? Have you indeed read any of his works for yourself or is it a passing on of second, third hand information? "[i]Wigglesworth taught _______"[/i], This is the air of superiority that is often given off in many postings. Maybe you have indeed read much of him and by him first hand, but it is not stated.

I would also like to say Mike, I have more than once apologized to others for things I have said and done. I have taken rebuke. Maybe you missed those posts. So those things I have already settled and apologized for are as far as the East is from the West....

Yet prior to all this was an effort to blame someone else. It's a separate issue. Take note of one thing here, for all of this, nowhere is there any forthcoming specifically of any fault of your own or answer to those things brought to bear. This is often the case, an end around to another matter. Blame, excuse, defend and then self justification. It is not just one post but a continual pattern across many. It's pride, not in an instance but in disposition or so it seems. That's the trouble, often the trouble generally speaking, that we are too weak to accept or even consider 'criticism' without suspicions of ill-will, having to defend ourselves, explain ourselves, justify ourselves. It is incredibly pathetic and beggarly. Too proud to be misunderstood ...

Abusing PM's ... It's grievous to hear these things. We cannot control the content of them nor would there be any desire to do so, this setting is enough of a work on it's own to get bogged down in private disputes. It shouldn't even need the mention, but nobody should be sending anything of this sort to anybody. Just as well, to hear them dredged up here like this ... you might be astonished at some of the things I have received over the years, but put them out here publicly?

A lot of this gets too didactic trying to answer everything. There is no favoritism. There may be perceptions but, at the time, and if it must be said I took the removal of the offending replies (though we frown on that, preferring a apology, clarification, what have you) as a regret for having put them out in the first place. It doesn't make it right nor had it been addressed until now.

This is to defend nothing or no one. It is a colossal failure on my part. It is intrusion on this thread and failure to be impartial. Indeed, those thing you mention are still correct, even if there is an attempt to have you look at them yourself. It is not about an aberration injected but an observance over time, rightly or not I do not know for certain and where I might have well better had prayed than spoke. Am trying to be as forthcoming as possible here.

Paul West's last reply is so succinct, so dead on, so incredibly ... of my own thought's it is a wonder considering we probably haven't spoken a word to each other in a week or so.

At this point I would far rather talk about my failures and misgivings over the course of the last few weeks. It is for another place and time, everything is being reaccessed. It is a loss of true, dedicated prayer that has greatly affected so much .. I know it and must rectify it. I am broken and saddened over much of my folly and for those that left recently. They are as wrong as can be on a great deal, however there is just a much truth that I must face and deal with. My wrong far outstrips anything that might have been said or done. There is much that is regrettable, much that is unfortunate, much that is misunderstood and perhaps even that which was rightly brought to bear. Things can quickly turn into a quagmire of feeling compelled to answer or "defend" that which is indefensible. Sin, foolishness and folly need to be admitted not defended. Fantastical, imaginative accusations or insinuations demanding an answer will receive nothing in response when there is no truth to them or in them.

This elusive quality of honesty, though it is demanded of us ...

Somehow we need to get past this idea of being contestants in a battle with each other. Squaring off into factions and fissures, imaging so much evil of one another. Not only will we not accept wrong but we percieve wrong ideas about each other as a first instance and then let our imaginations and perceptions direct us forward. It's all backwards. Why not of a first instance apply the more highly likely attribute that I myself may have it all wrong? I must consider this even here, at all times. It's not "don't judge me", but please do! We ought to welcome it, desire it, be ever so appreciative of it, thank God for it, even when it is backed with wrong motive ... can we at least consider that it might be true? If there is nothing to it, there is nothing to defend, but if there is ... ? And even more stringently, when we are defending, what is it saying about ourselves?

The black guard of the heart, this incredible pride.

Wigglesworth seemed to live in revival and carry revival:

"Ananias and Sapphira were in this thing and yet they missed it. They thought that possibly the thing might fail. So they wanted to have a reserve for themselves in case it did turn out to be a failure. They were in the wonderful revival that God gave to the early church and yet they missed it. There are many people like them today who make vows to God in times of a great crisis in their lives. But they fail to keep their vows and in the end they become spiritually bankrupt. Blessed is the man who will swear to his own hurt and change not; who keeps the vow he has made to God; who is willing to lay his all at God's feet. The man who does this never becomes a lean soul. God has promised to "make fat his bones." There is no dry place for such a man; he is always fat and flourishing, and he becomes stronger and stronger. It pays to trust God with all and to make no reservation.

I wish I could make you see how great a God we have. Ananias and Sapphira were really doubting God and were questioning whether this work that He had begun would go through. They wanted to get some glory for selling their property, but because of their lack of faith they kept back part of the price in reserve in case the work of God should fail.

Many are doubting whether this Pentecostal revival will go through. Do you think this Pentecostal work will stop? Never. For fifteen years I have been in constant revival and I am sure that it will never stop. When George Stephenson made his first engine he took his sister Mary to see it. She looked at it and said to her brother, "George, it'll never go." He said to her, "Get in, Mary." She said again, "It'll never go." He said to her, "We'll see, you get in." Mary at last got in-the whistle blew, there was a puff and a rattle, and the engine started off. Then Mary cried out, "George, it'll never stop! It'll never stop!"

People are looking on at this Pentecostal revival and they are very critical and they are saying, "It'll never go;" but when they are induced to come into the work, they one and all say, "It'll never stop." This revival of God is sweeping on and on and there is no stopping the current of life, of love, of inspiration, and of power.

(Interpretation; It is the living Word who has brought this. It is the Lamb in the midst, the same yesterday, today and forever.)

God has brought unlimited resources for everyone. Do not doubt. Hear with the ear of faith. God is in the midst. See that it is God who bath set forth that which you see and hear today."

David

What a blessed life and Ministry that Wigglesworth lived in!

Oh that we would believe God for such marvelous things in our day!

wigglesworth on revelation,

"To another the word of knowledge, by the same Spirit; to another faith, by the same Spirit" (1 Cor. 12:8, 9).

We have not passed this way hitherto. I believe that Satan has many devices and that they are worse today than ever before; but I also believe that there is to be a full manifestation on the earth of the power and glory of God to defeat every device of Satan.

In Ephesians 4 we are told to endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace, for there is one body, and one Spirit, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and one God and Father of all. The Baptism of the Spirit is to make us all one. Paul tells us in 1 Cor. 12:13 that by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. It is God's thought that we speak the same thing. If we all have the full revelation of the Spirit of God we shall all see the same thing. Paul asked these Corinthians, "Is Christ divided?" When the Holy Ghost has full control, Christ is never divided, His body is not divided, there is no division. Schism and division are the products of the carnal mind.

How important it is that we shall have the manifestation of "the word of knowledge" in our midst. It is the same Spirit who brings forth the word of wisdom that brings forth the word of knowledge. The revelation of the mysteries of God comes by the Spirit, and we must have a supernatural word of knowledge in order to convey to others the things which the Spirit of God has revealed. The Spirit of God reveals Christ in all His wonderful fullness, and He shows Him to us from the beginning to the end of the Scriptures. It is the Scriptures that make us wise unto salvation, that open to us the depths of the kingdom of heaven, which reveal all the divine mind to us.

There are thousands of people who read and study the Word of God. But it is not quickened to them. The Bible is a dead letter except by the Spirit. The Word of God can never be vital and powerful in us except by the Spirit. The words that Christ spoke were not just dead words but they were spirit and life. And so it is the thought of God that a living word, a word of truth, the word of God, a supernatural word of knowledge, shall come forth from us through the power of the Spirit of God. It is the Holy Ghost who will bring forth utterances from our lips and a divine revelation of all the mind of God.

David

wigglesworth ;

"One day when I came home from our open-air meeting at eleven o'clock I found that my wife was out. I asked, "Where is she?" I was told that she was down at Mitchell's. I had seen Mitchell that day and knew that he was at the point of death. I knew that it was impossible for him to survive the day unless the Lord undertook.

There are many who let down in sickness and do not take hold of the life of the Lord Jesus Christ that is provided for them. I was taken to see a woman who was dying and said to her, "How are things with you?" She answered, "I have faith, I believe." I said, "You know that you have not faith, you know that you are dying. It is not faith that you have, it is language." There is a difference between language and faith. I saw that she was in the hands of the devil. There was no possibility of life until he was removed from the premises. I hate the devil, and I laid hold of the woman and shouted, "Come out, you devil of death. I command you to come out in the name of Jesus." In one minute she stood on her feet in victory.

But to return to the case of Brother Mitchell, I hurried down to the house, and as I got near I heard terrible screams. I knew that something had happened. I passed Mrs. Mitchell on the staircase and asked, "What is up?" She replied, "He is gone! He is gone!" I just passed her and went into the room, and immediately I saw that Mitchell had gone. I could not understand it, but I began to pray. My wife was always afraid that I would go too far, and she laid hold of ma and said, "Don't, Dad! Don't you see that he is dead?" I continued to pray and my wife continued to cry out to me, "Don't, Dad. Don't you see that he is dead?" But I continued praying. I got as far as I could with my own faith, and then God laid hold of me. Oh, it was such a laying hold that I could believe for anything. The faith of the Lord Jesus laid hold of me and a solid peace came into my heart. I shouted, "He lives! He lives! He lives!" And he is living today. There is a difference between our faith and the faith of the Lord Jesus. The faith of the Lord Jesus is needed. We must change faith from time to time. Your faith may get to a place where it wavers. The faith of Christ never wavers. When you have that faith the thing is finished. When you have that faith you will never look at things as they are, you will see the things of nature give way to the things of the Spirit, you will see the temporal swallowed up in the eternal."

David

There is a difference between our faith and the faith of the Lord Jesus. The faith of the Lord Jesus is needed. We must change faith from time to time. Your faith may get to a place where it wavers. The faith of Christ never wavers. When you have that faith the thing is finished. When you have that faith you will never look at things as they are, you will see the things of nature give way to the things of the Spirit, you will see the temporal swallowed up in the eternal."

This is an excellent comment. As a stand alone statement it is wonderful.

I am somewhat uncomfortable with this being the conclusion of bringing someone back from the dead.

Having read Smith Wigglesworth on many occasions, I have many times been left with deep truths used in the wrong context of the subject matter most often he tried to convey.

We see in this story Mrs. Wigglesworth is still alive. We also see in this story Smith coming to his great conclusion that it is not his own faith but the faith of Christ breaking way to victory in our understanding of eternal matters, not temporal matters. Again, I say AMEN.

We shall also see that with Smith Wigglesworth's deep understanding, he could not raise his own wife or son with his own faith or the faith of Christ.

I do believe when we have this faith that gives way...or breaks away from the temporal to the eternal, we must conclude, put in proper perspective, it is not the eternal that breaks way to the temporal. So, I find here a contradiction in Smith Wigglesworth's conclusion of this particular incident if he is saying this is the secret of bringing about God’s will here on earth. One must conclude it is not always God’s will in the temporal to bring someone back from the dead, as Mr. Wigglesworth not only could not raise his own wife, nor his own son.

The real conclusion Smith Wigglesworth should have ended here is this, What was God’s will in the matter?

Blessings to you,

R.G. Benjamin

I don't know if you're familiar with the convention that a doctor should not be expected to treat his own family, for fear of his judgment being unsound, due to emotional involvement with the patients?

Hello Dorcas,

We pray according to God's will, not our emotional involvement. God answers prayer according to His will, not according to our emotional involvement.

As a father, and husband, I pray for my family God has entrusted to me. Has he not placed me as head of my household?

To say my prayers will not be answered because I am emotionally involved with my family is nowhere to be found in the written word.

I must conclude from your analysis, praying for one's family would or could end in malpractice, therefore the burden of my families needs must be administered by someone who is not emotionally involved?

Is teaching not also a gift of the Spirit, as is the gift of healing? Are we to conclude then, we only teach those we are not emotionally involved with due to malpractice?

If I should pray for my own health and am told my faith is the key to what I receive, am I not also emotionally involved? Faith under any circumstance, does not work from our emotions.

God works all things together for good according to His will. If we pray according to His will, He hears and answers.

As I read your post, it seems this is the most likely consideration, regarding Smith's own family, whereas in the man he raised from the dead, (Mitchell), he was completely ckear of God's will in the matter, and there was nothing wrong with his heart or doctrine in any of the cases.

I am totally confused here. Would you elaborate more fully? Possibly give an example out of scripture that I may understand. Do you mean "clear in" God's will or "clear of" God's will?

If you mean to say "clear in" God's will, are you also saying God will is dependent on our being in the right place at the right time? Could God have worked His will through someone else? Was God's will dependent on Smith Wigglesworth faith?

In conclusion, it was either not God's will for Smith Wigglesworth's wife and child to be healed and restored to life, or there was no one around at these times, being unemotionally involved, had a faith God had to depend on in order for His will to be done. This is not how My God works.

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

Wigglesworth, on that wonderful name;

"Scripture Reading-Acts 3:1-16

All things are possible through the name of Jesus. God hath highly exalted Him, and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow. There is power to overcome everything in the world through the name of Jesus. I am looking forward to a wonderful union through the name of Jesus. There is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

I want to instill into you a sense of the power, the virtue and the glory of that name. Six people went into the house of a sick man to pray for him. He was an Episcopalian vicar, and lay in his bed utterly helpless, without even strength to help himself. He had read a little tract about healing and had heard about people praying for the sick, and sent for these friends, who, he thought, could pray the prayer of faith. He was anointed according to James 5:14, but, because he had no immediate manifestation of healing, he wept bitterly. The six people walked out of the room, somewhat crestfallen to see the man lying there in an unchanged condition.

When they were outside, one of the six said, "There is one thing we might have done. I wish you would all go back with me and try it." They went back and all got together in a group. This brother said, "Let us whisper the name of Jesus." At first when they whispered this worthy name nothing seemed to happen. But as they continued to whisper, "Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!" the power began to fall. As they saw that God was beginning to work, their faith and joy increased; and they whispered the name louder and louder. As they did so the man arose from his bed and dressed himself. The secret was just thus, those six people had gotten their eyes off the sick man, and they were just taken up with the Lord Jesus Himself, and their faith grasped the power that there is in His name. O, if people would only appreciate the power that there is in this name, there is no telling what would happen.

David

I was suggesting, with regard to his wife and son, that no matter how much he loved them, and believed with his own faith for their being raised from the dead, if God did not supply His faith, they could not be raised.

If God has faith, then who or what does God have faith in? To say that He has faith in Himself is a non-sense statement. Faith, by definition, requires that a being place trust in something outside of itself, and faith is only as good as the object that you place it in. So, if God has faith, what object outside of Himself is He placing His faith in? Is this object good? If it is good, then why isn't it God? So, I think we could say that if God has faith, then He really isn't God. His Deity is undermined.

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

Romans 12:3 (King James Version)

3For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

Mark 9:24
And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.
Mark

David

R.G. said;
"If God has faith, then who or what does God have faith in? To say that He has faith in Himself is a non-sense statement. Faith, by definition, requires that a being place trust in something outside of itself, and faith is only as good as the object that you place it in. So, if God has faith, what object outside of Himself is He placing His faith in? Is this object good? If it is good, then why isn't it God? So, I think we could say that if God has faith, then He really isn't God. His Deity is undermined."

R.G. I have experienced what Smith is talking about. It is when praying for life and death situations. It is when there is no possibility. All avenues are cut off and every obsticle that hinders must be removed.A powerful mantle comes on the man of God that knows how to hook up with Jesus to finish a task.

This is Oswald Chaambers;

Getting Into God's Stride

"Enoch walked with God." Genesis 5:24

The test of a man's religious life and character is not what he does in the exceptional moments of life, but what he does in the ordinary times, when there is nothing tremendous or exciting on. The worth of a man is revealed in his attitude to ordinary things when he is not before the footlights (cf. John 1:36). It is a painful business to get through into the stride of God, it means getting your second wind spiritually. In learning to walk with God there is always the difficulty of getting into His stride; but when we have got into it, the only characteristic that manifests itself is the life of God. The individual man is lost sight of in his personal union with God, and the stride and the power of God alone are manifested.

It is difficult to get into stride with God, because when we start walking with Him we find He has outstripped us before we have taken three steps. He has different ways of doing things, and we have to be trained and disciplined into His ways. It was said of Jesus - "He shall not fail nor be discouraged," because He never worked from His own individual standpoint but always from the standpoint of His Father, and we have to learn to do the same. Spiritual truth is learned by atmosphere, not by intellectual reasoning. God's Spirit alters the atmosphere of our way of looking at things, and things begin to be possible which never were possible before. Getting into the stride of God means nothing less than union with Himself. It takes a long time to get there, but keep at it. Don't give in because the pain is bad just now, get on with it, and before long you will find you have a new vision and a new purpose.

David

The confusing but ongoing confusion is:

What is faith?

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Who needs faith? Man or God?

The whole idea that God has faith is completely foreign to the Bible. Biblical faith is, human beings trusting in a God they cannot see, to do things that He has promised. God sees all and knows all from all eternity. So, God does not need to have faith, we do.

We do not operate by a God Faith, since God does not need faith to operate. God operates out of His divine will and sovereignty. Our faith is placed in His divine will and sovereignty.

Is faith the object of our wants, stimulating a God faith to receive, or is God the object of our faith?

Is Mark 9:24 suggesting a faith that God has or faith, that has God as its object.

Our faith is object oriented, however many have misplaced the object. When we ask God anything we are to have faith in Him, not the measure of our faith.

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

R.G. I have experienced what Smith is talking about. It is when praying for life and death situations. It is when there is no possibility. All avenues are cut off and every obsticle that hinders must be removed.A powerful mantle comes on the man of God that knows how to hook up with Jesus to finish a task.

David, I do believe you have discovered the main object....

In this main object, we find Galatians 2:20:

Iam crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

The object that hinders is our flesh. This is the object of our faith. To be conformed to His image...we must die daily.

I hope and pray all believers have experienced this. However not all believers will experience healing the sick or raising the dead.

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

Amen R.G.,I wanted to add some Wigglesworth comments.;

"For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them" (Mark 11:23, 24)

These are days when we need to have our faith strengthened, when we need to know God. God has designed that the just shall live by faith. Any man can be changed by faith, no matter how he may be fettered. I know that God's word is sufficient. One word from Him can change a nation. His word is from everlasting to everlasting. It is through the entrance of this everlasting Word, this incorruptible seed, that we are born again, and come into this wonderful salvation. Man cannot live by bread alone, but must live by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. This is the food of faith. "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."

Everywhere men are trying to discredit the Bible and take from it all the miraculous. One preacher says, "Well, you know, Jesus arranged beforehand to have that colt tied where it was, and for the men to say just what they did." I tell you God can arrange everything without going near. He can plan for you, and when He plans for you, all is peace. All things are possible if you will believe.

Another preacher said, "It was an easy thing for Jesus to feed the people with five loaves. The loaves were so big in those days that it was a simple matter to cut them into a thousand pieces each." But He forgot that one little boy brought those five loaves all the way in his lunch basket. There is nothing impossible with God. All the impossibility is with us when we measure God by the limitations of our unbelief

Wigglesworth

Another preacher said, "It was an easy thing for Jesus to feed the people with five loaves. The loaves were so big in those days that it was a simple matter to cut them into a thousand pieces each."

This would also go along with those who said the Red Sea was only 6" deep. One could then reply,
How much more a miracle....all those drown in only 6" of water!

These are days when we need to have our faith strengthened, when we need to know God. God has designed that the just shall live by faith. Any man can be changed by faith, no matter how he may be fettered. I know that God's word is sufficient.

God's word is sovereign, God's grace is sufficient.

Do you want the Power of God to rest upon you, or as you say, having the mantle of God upon you?

Hear what Paul says:

2 Corinthians 12:9
And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

Do you want the Power of Christ to rest upon you, or as you say, having the mantle of God upon you?

A sober warning:

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

this story blew me away;

"One day I went up into the mountain to pray. I had a wonderful day. It was one of the high mountains of Wales. I heard of one man going up this mountain to pray, and the Spirit of the Lord met him so wonderfully that his face shone like that of an angel when he returned. Every one in the village was talking about it. As I went up to this mountain and spent the day in the presence of the Lord, His wonderful power seemed to envelop and saturate and fill me.

Two years before this time there had come to our house two lads from Wales. They were just ordinary lads, but they became very zealous for God. They came to our mission and saw some of the works of God. They said to me, "We would not be surprised if the Lord brings you down to Wales to raise our Lazarus." They explained that the leader of their assembly was a man who had spent his days working in a tin mine and his nights preaching, and the result was that he had collapsed, gone into consumption, and for four years he had been a helpless invalid, having to be fed with a spoon.

While I was up on that mountain top I was reminded of the transfiguration scene, and I felt that the Lord's only purpose in taking us into the glory was to fit us for greater usefulness in the valley.

Tongues and Interpretation; "The living God has chosen us for His divine inheritance, and He it is who is preparing us for our ministry, that it may be of God and not of man."

As I was on the mountain top that day, the Lord said to me, "I want you to go and raise Lazarus." I told the brother who accompanied me of this, and when we got down to the valley, I wrote a postcard: " When I was up on the mountain praying today, God told me that I was to go and raise Lazarus." I addressed the postcard to the man in the place whose name had been given to me by the two lads. When we arrived at the place we went to the man to whom I had addressed the card. He looked at me and said, "Did you send this?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Do you think we believe in this? Here, take it." And he threw it at me.

The man called a servant and said, "Take this man and show him Lazarus." Then he said to me, "The moment you see him you will be ready to go home. Nothing will hold you." Everything he said was true from the natural viewpoint. The man was helpless. He was nothing but a mass of bones with skin stretched over them. There was no life to be seen. Everything in him spoke of decay.

I said to him, "Will you shout? You remember that at Jericho the people shouted while the walls were still up. God has like victory for you if you will only believe." But I could not get him to believe. There was not an atom of faith there. He had made up his mind not to have anything.

It is a blessed thing to learn that God's word can never fail. Never hearken to human plans. God can work mightily when you persist in believing Him in spite of discouragements from the human standpoint. When I got back to the man to whom I had sent the post-card, he asked, "Are you ready to go now ?"

I am not moved by what I see. I am moved only by what I believe. I know this-no man looks at appearances if he believes. No man considers how he feels if he believes. The man who believes God has it. Every man who comes into the Pentecostal condition can laugh at all things and believe God. There is something in the Pentecostal work that is different from anything else in the world. Somehow, in Pentecost, you know that God is a reality. Wherever the Holy Ghost has right of way, the gifts of the Spirit will be in manifestation; and where these gifts are never in manifestation, I question whether He is present. Pentecostal people are spoiled for anything else than Pentecostal meetings. We want none of the entertainments that the churches are offering. When God comes in He entertains us Himself. Entertained by the King of kings and Lord of lords! O, it is wonderful.

There were difficult conditions in that Welsh village, and it seemed impossible to get the people to believe. "Ready to go home?" I was asked. But a man and a woman there asked us to come and stay with them. I said, "I want to know how many of you people can pray." No one wanted to pray. I asked if I could get seven people to pray with me for the poor man's deliverance. I said to the two people who were going to entertain us, "I will count on you two, and there is my friend and myself, and we need three others." I told the people that I trusted that some of them would awaken to their privilege and come in the morning and join us in prayer for the raising of Lazarus. It will never do to give way to human opinions. If God says a thing, you are to believe it.

I told the people that I would not eat anything that night. When I got to bed it seemed as if the devil tried to place on me everything that he had placed on that poor man in the bed. When I awoke I had a cough and all the weakness of a tubercular patient. I rolled out of bed on to the floor and cried out to God to deliver me from the power of the devil. I shouted loud enough to wake everybody in the house, but nobody was disturbed. God gave victory, and I got back into bed again as free as ever I was in my life. At 5 o'clock the Lord awakened me and said .........

To be continued.....

David

Part 2; (from previous post)

.............."At 5 o'clock the Lord awakened me and said to me, "Don't break bread until you break it round My table." At 6 o'clock He gave me these words, "And I will raise him up." I put my elbow into the fellow who was sleeping with me. He said, "Ugh !" I put my elbow into him again and said, "Do you hear? The Lord says that He will raise him up."

At 8 o'clock they said to me, "Have a little refreshment." But I have found prayer and fasting the greatest joy, and you will always find it so when you are led by God. When we went to the house where Lazarus lived there were eight of us altogether. No one can prove to me that God does not always answer prayer. He always does more that that. He always gives the exceedingly abundant above all we ask or think.

I shall never forget how the power of God fell on us as we went into that sick man's room. O, it was lovely! As we circled round the bed I got one brother to hold one of the sick man's hands and I held the other; and we each held the hand of the person next to us. I said, "We are not going to pray, we are just going to use the name of Jesus." We all knelt down and whispered that one word, "Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!" The power of God fell and then it lifted. Five times the power of God fell and then it remained. But the person who was in the bed was unmoved. Two years previous someone had come along and had tried to raise him up, and the devil had used his lack of success as a means of discouraging Lazarus. I said, "I don't care what the devil says; if God says he will raise you up it must be so. Forget everything else except what God says about Jesus."

The sixth time the power fell and the sick man's lips began moving and the tears began to fall. I said to him, "The power of God is here; it is yours to accept it." He said, "I have been bitter in my heart, and I know I have grieved the Spirit of God. Here I am helpless. I cannot lift my hands, nor even lift a spoon to my mouth." I said, "Repent, and God will hear you." He repented and cried out, "O God, let this be to Thy glory." As he said this the virtue of the Lord went right through him.

I have asked the Lord to never let me tell this story except as it was, for I realize that God can not bless exaggerations. As we again said, "Jesus! Jesus! Jesus !" the bed shook, and the man shook. I said to the people that were with me, "You can all go down stairs right away. This is all God. I'm not going to assist him." I sat and watched that man get up and dress himself. We sang the doxology as he walked down the steps. I said to him, "Now tell what has happened."

David

part 3 ;
It was soon noised abroad that Lazarus had been raised up and the people came from Llanelly and all the district round to see him and hear his testimony. And God brought salvation to many. This man told right out in the open air what God had done, and as a result many were convicted and converted. All this came through the name of Jesus, through faith in His name, yea, the faith that is by Him gave this sick man perfect soundness in the presence of them all.

Peter and John were helpless, were illiterate, they had no college education. They had been with Jesus. To them had come a wonderful revelation of the power of the name of Jesus. They had handed out the bread and fish after Jesus had multiplied them. They had sat at the table with Him and John had often gazed into His face. Peter had often to be rebuked, but Jesus manifested His love to Peter through it all. Yea, He loved Peter, the wayward one. O, He's a wonderful lover! I have been wayward, I have been stubborn, I had an unmanageable temper at one time, but how patient He has been. I am here to tell you that there is power in Jesus and in His wondrous name to transform anyone, to heal anyone.

If you will see Him as God's Lamb, as God's beloved Son who had laid upon Him the iniquity of us all, if only you will see that Jesus paid the whole price for our redemption that we might be free, you can enter into your purchased inheritance of salvation, of life and of power.

Poor Peter, and poor John! They had no money! But they had faith, they had the power of the Holy Ghost, they had God. You can have God even though you have nothing else. Even though you have lost your character you can have God. I have seen the worst men saved by the power of God.

Wigglesworth

The Power of the Name

Scripture Reading-Acts 3:1-16

All things are possible through the name of Jesus. God hath highly exalted Him, and given Him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow. There is power to overcome everything in the world through the name of Jesus. I am looking forward to a wonderful union through the name of Jesus. There is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Wigglesworth

I was one day preaching about the name of Jesus and there was a man leaning against a lamp-post, listening. It took a lamp-post to enable him to keep on his feet. We had finished our open-air meeting, and the man was still leaning against the post. I asked him, "Are you sick?" He showed me his hand and I saw beneath his coat, he had a silver handled dagger. He told me that he was on his way to kill his unfaithful wife, but that he had heard me speaking about the power of the name of Jesus and could not get away. He said that he felt just helpless. I said, "Get you down." And there on the square, with people passing up and down, he got saved.

I took him to my home and put on him a new suit. I saw that there was something in that man that God could use. He said to me the next morning, "God has revealed Jesus to me; I see that all has been laid upon Jesus." I lent him some money, and he soon got together a wonderful little home. His faithless wife was living with another man, but he invited her back to the home that he had prepared for her. She came: and, where enmity and hatred had been before, the whole situation was transformed by love. God made that man a minister wherever he went. There is power in the name of Jesus everywhere. God can save to the uttermost.
Wigglesworth

Where people are in sickness you find frequently that they are dense about Scripture. They usually know three scriptures though. They know about Paul's thorn in the flesh, and that Paul told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake, and that Paul left someone sick somewhere; they forget his name, and don't remember the name of the place, and don't know where the chapter is. Most people think they have a thorn in the flesh. The chief thing in dealing with a person who is sick is to locate their exact position. As you are ministering under the Spirit's power the Lord will let you see just that which will be more helpful and most faith-inspiring to them.

When I was in the plumbing business I enjoyed praying for the sick. Urgent calls would come and I would have no time to wash, and with my hands all black I would preach to these sick ones, my heart all aglow with love. Ah, you must have your heart in the thing when you pray for the sick. You have to get right to the bottom of the cancer with a divine compassion and then you will see the gifts of the Spirit in operation.

Wigglesworth

Dorcas,

When we place our faith in God, we are putting our trust in His faithfulness. God's faithfulness is solely based upon His Word, His Promises.

We put our [u]trust[/u] in Him. Faith is believing. Does God need to believe in Himself?

When I took my marriage vow, I promised to love until death we do part. My wife placed her trust in my vow, my promise to love her in sickness and in health, until death we do part.

My faithfulness to my wife is based on my promise, my word. My faithfulness to her is also based upon my obedience to God.

Is God's faithfulness based upon His own obedience to Himself or to someone else?

God's faithfulness to mankind, those who have placed their faith, trust, and belief in Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sin is based solely upon His promise that what He said He will do, He will do. God cannot lie.

Your ideas come from the Word Faith Movement. The Word Faith Movement believe and twist scripture to say:

By Faith God created the Heavens and Earth. They teach we are little gods learning to exercise this God Faith in our lives.

This is not what our scriptures teach.

Through faith [u]we understand [/u]that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

As we shall see here, our faith is based upon what we understand and know to be true.

Abel understood and knew the only thing pleasing to God was sacrifice.

By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.

God is the object of our faith. His faithfulness is the evidence of our trust and belief in Him.

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

The whole thing is put straight when God Himself gives the word to the believer, which is to be done or spoken - just as folk like Smith Wigglesworth - and many many others - report.

And as the Word of Faith Movement also claim.

Is faith a force?

The Faith Movement believe that faith works like a mighty power or force. Through faith, we can obtain anything we want, health, wealth, success, whatever. They believe this force is only released through the spoken word. As we speak the words of faith, power is discharged to accomplish our desires.

The Word Faith Movement believe:

1. "Say it." Positive or negative, it is up to the individual. According to what the individual says, that shall he receive.

2. "Do it." Your action defeats you or puts you over. According to your action, you receive or you are kept from receiving.

My Dear Dorcas, Faith does not sit on the Throne, God Almighty does.

Is it to be done? Yes, we obey God's voice, not our own.

Can you walk on water simply because you have spoken it? Many a fool have drown believing this kind of faith.

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

One of our workers said to me at Christmas time, "Wigglesworth, I never was so near the end of my purse in my life." I replied, "Thank God, you are just at the opening of God's treasures." It is when we are at the end of our own, that we can enter into the riches of God's resources. It is when we possess nothing, that we can possess all things.

The Lord will always meet you when you are on the line of living faith. I was in Ireland at one time and went to a house and said to the lady who came to the door, "Is Brother Wallace here?" She replied, "Oh, he has gone to Bangor, but God has sent you here for me. I need you. Come in." She told me her husband was a deacon of the Presbyterian Church. She had herself received the Baptism while she was a member of the Presbyterian Church, but they did not accept it as from God. The people of the church said to her husband, "This thing cannot go on. We don't want you to be deacon any longer, and your wife is not wanted in the church." The man was very enraged and he became incensed against his wife. It seemed as though an evil spirit possessed him, and the home that had once been peaceful became very terrible: At last he left home and left no money behind him, and the woman asked me what should she do.

We went to prayer and before we had prayed five minutes the woman was mightily filled with the Holy Ghost. I said to her, "Sit down and let me talk to you. Are you often in the Spirit like this?" She said. "Yes, and what could I do without the Holy Ghost now?" I said to her, "The situation is yours. The Word of God says that you have power to sanctify your husband. Dare to believe the Word of God. Now the first thing we must do is to pray that your husband come back tonight." She said, "I know he won't." I said, "If we agree together, it is done." She said, "I will agree." I said to her, "When he comes home show him all possible love, lavish everything upon him. If he won't hear what you have to say, let him go to bed. The situation is yours. Get down before God and claim him for the Lord. Get into the glory just as you have got in today, and as the Spirit of God prays through you, you will find that God will grant all the desires of your heart."

A month later I saw this sister at a convention. She told how her husband came home that night and that he went to bed, but she prayed right through to victory and then laid her hands upon him. The moment she laid hands upon him he cried out for mercy. The Lord saved him and baptized him in the Holy Spirit. The power of God is beyond all our conception. The trouble is that we do not have the power of God in a full manifestation because of our finite thoughts, but as we go on and let God have His way, there is no limit to what our limitless God will do in response to a limitless faith. But you will never get anywhere except you are in constant pursuit of all the power of God.

Wigglesworth

" I asked, "What do you want?" He said, "I wonder if I could ask you to pray for me." I said, "What's the trouble?" He said, "Can't you smell?" The young fellow had gone into sin and was suffering the consequences. He said, "I have been turned out of two hospitals. I am broken out all over. I have abscesses all over me." And I could see that he had a bad breaking out at the nose. He said, "I heard you preach, and could not understand about this healing business, and was wondering if there was any hope for me."

I said to him, "Do you know Jesus?" He did not know the first thing about salvation, but I said to him, "Stand still." I placed my hands on his head and then on his loins and cursed that terrible disease in the name of Jesus. He cried out, "I know I'm healed. I can feel a warmth and a glow all over me." I said, "Who did it?" He said, "Your prayers." I said, "No, it was Jesus!" He said, "Was it He? Oh, Jesus! Jesus! Jesus, save me." And that young man went away healed and saved. Oh, what a merciful God we have! What a wonderful Jesus is ours!

Are you oppressed? Cry out to God. It is always good for people to cry out. You may have to cry out. The Holy Ghost and the Word of God will bring to light every hidden, unclean thing that must be revealed. There is always a place of deliverance when you let God search out that which is spoiling and marring your life. That evil spirit that was in the man in the synagogue cried out, "Let us alone!" It was a singular thing that the evil spirit had never cried out like that until Jesus walked into the place where he was. Jesus rebuked the thing, saying, "Hold thy peace and come out of him," and the man was delivered. He is just the same Jesus, exposing the powers of evil, delivering the captives and letting the oppressed go free, purifying them and cleansing their hearts. Those evil spirits that inhabited the man who had the legion did not want to be sent to the pit to be tormented before their time, and so they cried out to be sent into the swine. Hell is such an awful place that even the demons hate the thought of going there. How much more should men seek to be saved from the pit?

God is compassionate and says, "Seek ye the Lord while He may be found." And He has further stated, "Whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Seek Him now, call on His name right now, and there is forgiveness, healing, redemption, deliverance, and everything you need for you right here and now, and that which will satisfy you throughout eternity.

Wigglesworth

Smith's ministry was characterised by his unwavering faith in God. He was able to believe for the impossible, and yet his one main concern was that God should always get the glory and not himself. His humility was a genuine concern for not stealing that which belonged to his heavenly father. Among the many stories that are recounted about his life, including people being raised from the dead, deaf ears being opened and captives being set free, there is one story that has captivated the heart and mind of many a Christian. This story is recounted below.

Surely one of the most remarkable cases of a miracle was when Smith was staying at the home of a curate of the Church of England. The man with whom he was staying had no legs. Smith suddenly said to the man, " Go and buy a new pair of shoes in the morning." A most astounding thing to say to someone with no legs. No doubt thinking Smith was totally insane the curate retired to bed, and then the Lord spoke to him saying " Do as my servant hath said."
The curate rose early the next morning and was waiting at the shoe store when the manage arrived to open up. Upon entering the store he was approached by the assistant who asked if he could help him. The curate replied he would like a pair of shoes. The assistant realising the condition of the man hesitated, before replying that they could not help him, obviously referring to his condition...
The curate seeing his dilemma said: " I would like a pair of black shoes, size eight please." The assistant returned with the shoes and as he put his one stump into the shoe a foot and leg instantly formed. The same thing happened with his other leg.Smith was not surprised and his comment was that with God there is no difference between healing a broken limb and forming a new limb.

Scotwise

With the gifts of the Spirit should come the fruit of the Spirit. With wisdom we should have love, with knowledge we should have joy, and with the third gift, faith, we should have the fruit of peace. Faith is always accompanied by peace. Faith always rests. Faith laughs at impossibilities. Salvation is by faith, through grace, and it is the gift of God. We are kept by the power of God through faith. God gives faith and nothing can take it away. By faith we have power to enter into the wonderful things of God. There are three positions of faith; saving faith, which is the gift of God; the faith of the Lord Jesus; and the gift of faith. You will remember the word of the Lord Jesus Christ given to .Paul, to which he refers in the 26th of Acts, where the Lord commissioned him to go to the Gentiles, "to open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness unto light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them `'WHICH ARE SANCTIFIED BY FAITH THAT IS IN. ME."

Oh, this wonderful faith of the Lord Jesus. Your faith comes to an end. How many times I have been to the place where I have had to tell the Lord, "I have used all the faith I have," and then He has placed His own faith within me.

One of our workers said to me at Christmas time, "Wigglesworth, I never was so near the end of my purse in my life." I replied, "Thank God, you are just at the opening of God's treasures." It is when we are at the end of our own, that we can enter into the riches of God's resources. It is when we possess nothing, that we can possess all things.

Wigglesworth

The Gift of Tongues

"Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy. For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue, speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries" (1 Cor. 14:1, 2).

It is necessary that we have a great desire for spiritual gifts. We must thirst after them and covet them earnestly because the gifts are necessary and important, that we, by the grace -of God having received the gifts, may be used for God's glory.

God has ordained this speaking in an unknown tongue unto Himself as a wonderful, supernatural means of communication in the Spirit. As we speak to Him in the unknown tongue we speak wonderful mysteries in the Spirit. In Rom. 8:27 we read, "He that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God." Many times as we speak unto God in an unknown tongue we are in intercession and as we pray thus in the Spirit we pray according to the will of God. And there is such a thing as the Spirit making intercession with groanings which cannot be uttered.

On this line I want to tell you about Willie Burton, who is laboring for God in the Belgium Congo. Brother Burton is a mighty man of God and is giving his life for the heathen in Africa. He took fever and went down to death. They said; "He has preached his last; what shall we do?" All their hopes seemed to be blighted, and there they stood, with broken hearts, wondering what was going to take place. They left him for dead; but, in a moment, without any signal, he stood right in the midst of them; and they could not understand it. The explanation he gave was this, that, when he came to himself, he realized a warmth going right through his body; and there wasn't one thing wrong with him. How did it come about? It was a mystery until he went to London and was telling the people how he was left for dead, and then was raised up. A lady came up and asked for a private. conversation with him, and arranged a time. She asked, "Do you keep a diary?" He answered, "Yes." She told him, "It happened on a certain day that I went to pray; and as soon as I knelt, I had you on my mind. -The Spirit of the Lord took hold of me and prayed through me in an unknown tongue. A vision came before me in which I saw you laid out helpless; and I cried out in the unknown tongue till I saw you rise up and go out of that room." She had kept a note of the time and when he turned to his diary he found that it was exactly the time when he was raised up. There are great possibilities as we yield to the Spirit and speak unto God in quiet hours in our bedrooms. God wants you to be filled with the Holy Ghost so that everything about you shall be charged with the dynamic of heaven.

Wigglesworth

"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church" (Verse 4). I want you to see that he that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself or builds himself up. We must be edified before we can edify the church. I cannot estimate what I, personally, owe to the Holy Ghost method of spiritual edification. I am here before you as one of the biggest conundrums in the world. There never was a weaker man on the platform. Language? None. Inability-full of it. All natural things in my life point exactly opposite to my being able to stand on the platform and preach the gospel. The secret is that the Holy Ghost came and brought this wonderful edification of the Spirit. I had been reading this Word continuallv as well as I could, but the Holy Ghost came and took hold of it, for the Holy Ghost is the breath of it, and He illuminated it to me. And He gives me language that I cannot speak fast enough; it comes too fast; and it is there because God has given it. When the Comforter is come He shall teach you ALL things; and He has given me this supernatural means of speaking in an unknown tongue to edify myself, so that, after being edified, I can edify the church.

In 1 John 2:20 we read, "But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things." In verse 27 we read, "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man should teach you; but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." Even, when you are baptized in the Spirit you may say, "I seem so dry, I don't know where I am." The Word says you have an unction. Thank God you have received an anointing. The Holy Ghost here says that He is abiding and that He teaches you of all things. These are great and definite positions for you. The Holy Ghost would have you stir up your faith to believe that this word is true that you have the unction and that the anointing abideth. As you rise up in the morning believe this wonderful truth, and as you yield to the Spirit's presence and power you will find yourself speaking unto God in the Spirit and you will find that you are personally being edified by doing this. Let everything about you be a lie, but let this word of God be true. The devil will say you are the driest person and that you will never do anything, but you believe God's word, that the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you.

Wiggleworth

Good post, Brothertom. I, too, was once enamored with Wigglesworth and his audacious feats of boisterous faith. I believe God used Smith to drop clerical jaws and confound the wise cloth. The ministry of Smith Wigglesworth today has an amazing magnetism on young believers; and in particular on those not yet beyond the spellbinding awe of outward manifestions and who are disproportionately preoccupied with miracles to the detriment of quiet, sober, grounded and unassuming faith in the inner workings of the Holy Spirit.

If not careful, Wigglesworth can morph into mythical being - a centaur of man and miracle - where the focus can shift to the feats God did through him rather than the God who did the feats. In most scenarios, however, the focus tends to settle on Smith himself as [i]God's General[/i], and the mythical awe professed by the believer can easily eclipse the fact that Wigglesworth was, in fact, a man sometimes without a healthy, balanced regard to certain things in the Word of God.

There's a story told by Lester Sumrall of Smith refusing to bless the dinner of a certain fellowship, because someone brought a pork roast. He raised his hands and cried, "O God how can I bless that which you have cursed, this foul pig..."

It's pretty shocking that a man so mightily used by God in the miraculous can have such a seemingly limited revelation of the New Covenant. This is partially why the riches and wisdom of our God are so unsearchable. Yes, Wigglesworth was fearless, but he was also unwise in a few areas - areas, I believe, of no less importance in the Kingdom of God than the working of miracles.

Here we have a wonderful word. All the Word is wonderful. This blessed Book brings such life and health and peace, and such an abundance that we should never be poor any more. This Book is my heavenly bank. I find everything I want in it. I want to show you how rich you may be, that in everything you can be enriched in Christ Jesus. He has abundance of grace for you and the gift of righteousness, and through His abundant grace all things are possible. I want to show you that you can be a living branch of the living Vine, Christ Jesus, and that it is your privilege to be right here in this world what He is. John tells us, "As He is, so are we in this world." Not that we are anything in ourselves, but Christ within us is our all in all.

Wigglesworth

The Lord Jesus is always wanting to show forth Ills grace and love in order to draw us to Himself. God is willing to do things, to manifest His Word, and let us know in measure the mind of our God in this day and hour. There are many needy ones, many afflicted ones, but I do not think any present are half as bad as this first case that we read of in Matthew 8. This man was a leper. You may be suffering with consumption or cancers or other things, but God will show forth His perfect cleansing, His perfect healing, if you have a living faith in Christ. He is a wonderful Jesus.

This leper must have been told about Jesus. How much is missed because people are not constantly telling what Jesus will do in this our day. Probably someone had come to that leper and said, "Jesus can heal you." And so he was filled with expectation as he saw the Lord coming down the mountain side. Lepers were not allowed to come within reach of people, they were shut out as unclean. And so in the ordinary way it would have been very difficult for him to get near because of the crowd that surrounded Jesus. But as He came down from the mount He met this poor leper. Oh, this terrible disease! There was no help for him humanly speaking, but nothing is too hard for Jesus. The man cried, "Lord, if thou wilt, thou canst make me clean." Was Jesus willing? You will never find Jesus missing an opportunity of doing good. You will find that He is always more willing to work than we are to give Him an opportunity to work. The trouble is we do not come to Him, we do not ask Him for what He is more than willing to give.

Wigglesworth

"There is healing through the blood of Christ and deliverance for every captive. God never intended His children to live in misery because of some affliction that comes directly from the devil. A perfect atonement was made at Calvary. I believe that Jesus bore my sins, and I am free from them all. I am justified from all things if I dare believe. He Himself took our infirmities and bare our sicknesses; and if I dare believe, I can be healed.

See this poor, helpless man at the pool. "Wilt thou be made whole?" But there is a difficulty in the way. The man has one eye on the pool and one on Jesus. There are many people getting cross-eyed this way these days; they have one eye on the doctor and one on Jesus. If you will only look to Christ and put both your eyes on Him you can be made every whit whole, spirit, soul and body. It is the word of the living God that they that believe should be justified, made free from all things. And whom the Son sets free is free indeed.

You say, "Oh, if I only could believe!" He understands. Jesus knew he had been a long time in that case. He is full of compassion. He knows that kidney trouble, He knows those corns, He knows that neuralgia. There is nothing He does not know. He only wants a chance to show Himself merciful and gracious to you. But He wants to encourage you to believe Him. If thou canst only believe, thou canst be saved and healed. Dare to believe that Jesus was wounded for your transgressions, was bruised for your iniquities, was chastised that you might have peace, and that by His stripes there is healing for you right here and now. You have failed because you have not believed Him. Cry out to Him even now, "Lord, I believe, help Thou mine unbelief."

Wigglesworth

In 1 John 2:20 we read, "But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things." In verse 27 we read, "But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man should teach you; but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him." Even, when you are baptized in the Spirit you may say, "I seem so dry, I don't know where I am." The Word says you have an unction. Thank God you have received an anointing. The Holy Ghost here says that He is abiding and that He teaches you of all things. These are great and definite positions for you. The Holy Ghost would have you stir up your faith to believe that this word is true that you have the unction and that the anointing abideth. As you rise up in the morning believe this wonderful truth, and as you yield to the Spirit's presence and power you will find yourself speaking unto God in the Spirit and you will find that you are personally being edified by doing this. Let everything about you be a lie, but let this word of God be true. The devil will say you are the driest person and that you will never do anything, but you believe God's word, that the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you.

Wow! being a christian is so exciting!

I love these stories;

I was preaching in Doncaster, England, at one time on the line of faith and a number of people were delivered. There was a man present who was greatly interested and moved by what he saw. He was suffering himself with a stiff knee and had yards and yards of flannel wound around it. After he got home he said to his wife, "I have taken in Wigglesworth's message and now I am going to act on it and get deliverance. Wife, I want you to be the audience." He took hold of his knee and said, "Come out, you devil, in the name of Jesus." Then he said, "It is all right, wife." He took the yards and yards of flannel off and found he was all right without the bandage. The next night he went to the little Primitive Methodist Church where he worshiped. There were a lot of young people who were in bad plight there and Jack had a tremendous business delivering his friends through the name of Jesus. He had been given to see that a great many ills to which flesh is heir are nothing else but the operation of the enemy, but his faith had risen and he saw that in the name of Jesus there was a power that was more than a match for the enemy.

I arrived one night at Gottenberg in Sweden and was asked to hold a meeting there. In the midst of the meeting a man fell full length in the doorway. The evil spirit drew him down, manifesting itself and disturbing the whole meeting. I rushed to the door and laid hold of this man and cried out to the evil spirit within him, "Come out, you devil! In the name of Jesus we cast you out as an evil spirit." I lifted him up and said, "Stand on your feet and walk in the name of Jesus." I don't know whether anybody in the meeting understood me except the interpreter, but the devils knew what I said. I talked in English but these devils in Sweden cleared out. A similar thing happened in Christiania.

The devil will endeavor to fascinate through the eyes and through the mind. At one time there was brought to me a beautiful young woman who had been fascinated with some preacher, and just because he had not given her satisfaction on the line of courtship and marriage, the devil took advantage and made her fanatical and mad. They brought her 250 miles in that condition. She had previously received the Baptism in the Spirit. You ask, "Is there any place for the enemy in one that has been baptized in the Holy Ghost?" Our only safety is in going on with God and in constantly being filled with the Holy Ghost. You must not forget Demas. He must have been baptized with the Holy Ghost for he appears to have been a right-hand worker with Paul, but the enemy got him to the place where he loved this present world and he dropped off. When they brought this young woman to me the evil power was immediately discerned and immediately I cast the thing out in the name of Jesus. It was a great joy to present her before all the people in her right mind again.

Wow! Ihad to read that twice!

David

this story blew me away;

"One day I went up into the mountain to pray. I had a wonderful day. It was one of the high mountains of Wales. I heard of one man going up this mountain to pray, and the Spirit of the Lord met him so wonderfully that his face shone like that of an angel when he returned. Every one in the village was talking about it. As I went up to this mountain and spent the day in the presence of the Lord, His wonderful power seemed to envelop and saturate and fill me.

Two years before this time there had come to our house two lads from Wales. They were just ordinary lads, but they became very zealous for God. They came to our mission and saw some of the works of God. They said to me, "We would not be surprised if the Lord brings you down to Wales to raise our Lazarus." They explained that the leader of their assembly was a man who had spent his days working in a tin mine and his nights preaching, and the result was that he had collapsed, gone into consumption, and for four years he had been a helpless invalid, having to be fed with a spoon.

While I was up on that mountain top I was reminded of the transfiguration scene, and I felt that the Lord's only purpose in taking us into the glory was to fit us for greater usefulness in the valley.

Tongues and Interpretation; "The living God has chosen us for His divine inheritance, and He it is who is preparing us for our ministry, that it may be of God and not of man."

As I was on the mountain top that day, the Lord said to me, "I want you to go and raise Lazarus." I told the brother who accompanied me of this, and when we got down to the valley, I wrote a postcard: " When I was up on the mountain praying today, God told me that I was to go and raise Lazarus." I addressed the postcard to the man in the place whose name had been given to me by the two lads. When we arrived at the place we went to the man to whom I had addressed the card. He looked at me and said, "Did you send this?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Do you think we believe in this? Here, take it." And he threw it at me.

The man called a servant and said, "Take this man and show him Lazarus." Then he said to me, "The moment you see him you will be ready to go home. Nothing will hold you." Everything he said was true from the natural viewpoint. The man was helpless. He was nothing but a mass of bones with skin stretched over them. There was no life to be seen. Everything in him spoke of decay.

I said to him, "Will you shout? You remember that at Jericho the people shouted while the walls were still up. God has like victory for you if you will only believe." But I could not get him to believe. There was not an atom of faith there. He had made up his mind not to have anything.

It is a blessed thing to learn that God's word can never fail. Never hearken to human plans. God can work mightily when you persist in believing Him in spite of discouragements from the human standpoint. When I got back to the man to whom I had sent the post-card, he asked, "Are you ready to go now ?"

I am not moved by what I see. I am moved only by what I believe. I know this-no man looks at appearances if he believes. No man considers how he feels if he believes. The man who believes God has it. Every man who comes into the Pentecostal condition can laugh at all things and believe God. There is something in the Pentecostal work that is different from anything else in the world. Somehow, in Pentecost, you know that God is a reality. Wherever the Holy Ghost has right of way, the gifts of the Spirit will be in manifestation; and where these gifts are never in manifestation, I question whether He is present. Pentecostal people are spoiled for anything else than Pentecostal meetings. We want none of the entertainments that the churches are offering. When God comes in He entertains us Himself. Entertained by the King of kings and Lord of lords! O, it is wonderful.

There were difficult conditions in that Welsh village, and it seemed impossible to get the people to believe. "Ready to go home?" I was asked. But a man and a woman there asked us to come and stay with them. I said, "I want to know how many of you people can pray." No one wanted to pray. I asked if I could get seven people to pray with me for the poor man's deliverance. I said to the two people who were going to entertain us, "I will count on you two, and there is my friend and myself, and we need three others." I told the people that I trusted that some of them would awaken to their privilege and come in the morning and join us in prayer for the raising of Lazarus. It will never do to give way to human opinions. If God says a thing, you are to believe it.

I told the people that I would not eat anything that night. When I got to bed it seemed as if the devil tried to place on me everything that he had placed on that poor man in the bed. When I awoke I had a cough and all the weakness of a tubercular patient. I rolled out of bed on to the floor and cried out to God to deliver me from the power of the devil. I shouted loud enough to wake everybody in the house, but nobody was disturbed. God gave victory, and I got back into bed again as free as ever I was in my life. At 5 o'clock the Lord awakened me and said .........

To be continued.....

David

Part 2; (from previous post)

.............."At 5 o'clock the Lord awakened me and said to me, "Don't break bread until you break it round My table." At 6 o'clock He gave me these words, "And I will raise him up." I put my elbow into the fellow who was sleeping with me. He said, "Ugh !" I put my elbow into him again and said, "Do you hear? The Lord says that He will raise him up."

At 8 o'clock they said to me, "Have a little refreshment." But I have found prayer and fasting the greatest joy, and you will always find it so when you are led by God. When we went to the house where Lazarus lived there were eight of us altogether. No one can prove to me that God does not always answer prayer. He always does more that that. He always gives the exceedingly abundant above all we ask or think.

I shall never forget how the power of God fell on us as we went into that sick man's room. O, it was lovely! As we circled round the bed I got one brother to hold one of the sick man's hands and I held the other; and we each held the hand of the person next to us. I said, "We are not going to pray, we are just going to use the name of Jesus." We all knelt down and whispered that one word, "Jesus! Jesus! Jesus!" The power of God fell and then it lifted. Five times the power of God fell and then it remained. But the person who was in the bed was unmoved. Two years previous someone had come along and had tried to raise him up, and the devil had used his lack of success as a means of discouraging Lazarus. I said, "I don't care what the devil says; if God says he will raise you up it must be so. Forget everything else except what God says about Jesus."

The sixth time the power fell and the sick man's lips began moving and the tears began to fall. I said to him, "The power of God is here; it is yours to accept it." He said, "I have been bitter in my heart, and I know I have grieved the Spirit of God. Here I am helpless. I cannot lift my hands, nor even lift a spoon to my mouth." I said, "Repent, and God will hear you." He repented and cried out, "O God, let this be to Thy glory." As he said this the virtue of the Lord went right through him.

I have asked the Lord to never let me tell this story except as it was, for I realize that God can not bless exaggerations. As we again said, "Jesus! Jesus! Jesus !" the bed shook, and the man shook. I said to the people that were with me, "You can all go down stairs right away. This is all God. I'm not going to assist him." I sat and watched that man get up and dress himself. We sang the doxology as he walked down the steps. I said to him, "Now tell what has happened."

David