I'm wondering what the Christian perspective is on all this. Is something like schizophrenia always caused by demons, or is it also a legitimate medical problem? I'm weary of what most psychiatrists and psychologists say and don't know what to make of this. Do any of you know of any articles or sermons on this subject?
I suffered from mental illness before I got saved. A team prayed over me and at least 5 demons left me with shrieking. I had been into all sorts of wrong thing that got me into bondage. I got filled with the Holy Spirit sooon after and stayed free for over 20 years.
I do not want to generalize anything, or develop doctrines but I believe that in times of the NT there was no such condition known as mental illness, just demon possession.
Would Jesus deny deliverance from this horrible condition to anyone who sincerely repents and desires freedom?
narrowpath
Mental illness occurs when we are overwhelmed by
our emotions {doubt, guilt, fear, etc.} and not
governed by the Spirit of God. For God has not
given us a spirit of fear; but of power, love,
and a sound mind!!
I second Narrowpath's post and agree.
I believe schitzophrenia is ALWAYS demonic. Many times, however, the demons tormenting such a soul will actually prevent them from understanding or responding to the Gospel and need to be driven out before they even have a fighting chance. And this "mental disease" is never just a single demon, it's the result of many demons. Many times is a result of both generational curse and fear/bitterness (initially as the root), sometimes triggered by a traumatic event through which the demons gain access.
here's a quote from a medical journal.
"A sibling or a parent with schizophrenia increases the likelihood that a person will have the disease."
so, then, demonic possession can be inherited??
bub
There is a genetic component in schizophrenia, but, that doesn't mean it cannot be healed.
I agree there is very likely to be a spiritual component, but I believe that trauma can cause a person's psyche to become fragmented, and these separations between parts, create vulnerability to spiritual interference. It's not just one single cause and effect.
Further, if the causes of the splitting are understood, the remedies can be more specifically applied - and they are not the same for everyone.
And, although Jesus could heal every schizophrenic that ever lived, only a few want to receive from Him.
For those of you who believe it to be demons, what would you say of a Christian with a mental illness? (Don't want to start a debate or anything, I'm just in the need of some answers.) Would the person then need deliverance and how would it be carried out?
And again, does anybody know of any articles or sermons on the subject?
when you ask if it is medical or demonic, understand that in Jesus's time most things were demonically explained, but now most things are medically explained. Soon, even more unknowns will be explained in a scientific way, so we need to look at the role of demons in affecting our mental or bodily makeup, because there are going to be physical explanations for everything.
Read the book called Pigs in the parlor...
Dont remember who wrote it but was very interesting.
Of course as everything said in the book is not what I would call biblical, it seems that everyone tends to build doctrine around experience and not solely on scripture, but you will have to as you read the book realise that something is going on in the spritual and needs to be taken care of.
For instance my wife was suffering from a disorder and causing her to have panic attacks and it was causing problems in our relationship, ultimately she went on medication, causing other problems..
The Holy Spirit speaking to me, was dealing with me and how I needed to get right with God and my wife needed to feel secure in our relationship and with the Lord.
I got right,,, Repented and Prayed over my wife and she was healed...
my wife had one relapse over 5 years later...
Why? again my prayer life faltered and I prayed for her. And I must as the spiritual head have to maintain a prayerful relationship with the Lord and with my family in obedience to Christ.
Spiritual warefare is very real and has to be dealt with in Repentance and prayer.
we fight not flesh and blood, but with princapalities and powers in high places.
my 2 cents anyway.
Schizophrenia is demonic as is many other things that are classified "as a disorder" Devils oppress the body, and the soul. Many things are not hereditary but a devil that has been working in someones family line for many years.
Now I may be wrong on this but here are some thoughts.
Is the question Is Schizophrenia AND any kind of mental Illness demonic? I see some as Mental issues and others as Emotional issues. And we know the emotions can affect the mental state of a person, and the mental can affect the emotional state of a person.
My understanding is that Schizophrenia, able to be controlled by medication was declassified as a mental illness but a physical one, therefore dismissing Schizophrenic people from hospitals. Many many homeless people who have Schizophrenia are helpless in this system.
Also, I find it interesting many people with extremely high IQ's have Schizophrenia or by-polar disorders.
We don't always call other physical illnesses demon possession. Yet our brain is a physical organ in our body, and anything less then normal we want to call demonic.
There are more and more children today with Hyper Activity Disorder. Although many are really mis-diagnosed, there are those who really have something going on there. I do know years and years ago working in the Mothers Morning Out if kids were given Kool-Aid...cherry flavor, the red dye in that Kool-Aid had these kids bouncing off the walls.
Babies born with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome have mental issues.
Children born to crack head parents have real mental issues. Is this demonic or brain damage, or maybe both?
Many people who are artistic, use the right side of their brain..the non verbal side, who are not academic in school, get into trouble, many don't finish school. Many have learning disabilities ...although very intelligent and High IQ's drop out. Believe it or not, many people in prison are those who have learning disabilities. So is our society today and our educational system somewhat at fault for some of these mental and emotional issues?
But with that, regardless of where one stands on the subject, we can agree that God is capable of bringing chaos into order, and healing our minds, emotions and our heart. With a “New Heart” He has Given in the New Birth, our emotions and minds are renewed In Him.
Katy
Added: Question... If Schizophrenia is demon possession, why do these demons wait until a person is in their teens twenties and thirties to show up?
Who Gets Schizophrenia?
Anyone can get schizophrenia. It is diagnosed all over the world and in all races and cultures. While it can occur at any age, schizophrenia typically first appears in the teenage years or 20s. The disorder affects men and women equally, although symptoms generally appear earlier in men (in their teens or 20s) than in women (in their 20s or early 30s). Children over the age of 5 can develop schizophrenia, but it is very rare before adolescence.
Are the SI moderators tolerant of posts that characterize people suffering from mental illness as being posessed by demons? don't these people have enough problems?
pray for the afflicted all that you can, i encourage this, as it will definately do some good.
but how about praying that their doctors and the medical world discovers what genes are causing this terrible, debilitating disease and that they devise the best remedy possible???? God gave us the gifts of observation and discovery, of scientific curiosity, of logic. we are supposed to use these gifts. if we don't, why should God answer our prayers???
bub
Hi Isaiah64...
A study of the brain shows that schizophrenia is a physical problem -- not merely an emotional problem.I'm wondering what the Christian perspective is on all this. Is something like schizophrenia always caused by demons, or is it also a legitimate medical problem?
This is a physical disease that has been illustrated through cross examination of brain scans (to explain the differences between individuals with and without the disease). This is why medicine is so successful in treatment of schizophrenia (or should we assume that demons are bound by medicine?). While the cause of the disease is not currently known, most scientists agree that there is some sort of organic foundation for this form of mental illness. However, there are some scientists who have thought that extreme [u]overuse
Most believe that it is not a progressively debilitative mental illness (like Alzheimer’s disease) but can be cured. Scientists, therefore, are currently searching for an organic, physical cause in order to determine possible cures or better treatments. They already understand the link between genetics and schizophrenia. The link between drug use and the disease is also readily established. Scientists have also observed the development of the disease resulting from physical brain injury. However, they are trying to discover how psychological or other external causes could trigger the onset of the disease.
I think that it would be disingenuous to blame the disease on a demon. While we know that disease is a product of sin in this world, we are careful not to place the blame for the common cold (like the rhinovirus) or the flu squarely upon the shoulders of a demon. While I agree that it is possible that some appearances of behavior or mental illness could be blamed on demonic activity, we need to be careful about doing so. We need to know that we are stating a TRUTH and not a LIE when we attempt to diagnose someone as being “afflicted by a devil.” There is a danger in this sort of charismatic diagnosis.
Remember A.A. Allen? He was a charismatic/neo-Pentecostal healing evangelist who would go around telling sick people that they had demons in them. He had been a licensed minister for the Assemblies of God, but was defrocked after his arrest for drunk driving. Allen used to bring “bottled demons” to his tent meetings that he claimed were taken when demons left sick people. He had bottles of “cancer demons,” “epileptic demons,” “STD demons” and even “poverty demons.” He was extremely popular and would attract many individuals suffering from terminal illness. Allen used to sell “prayer cloths” to the diligent masses (starting price: $100). Allen died of an apparent heart attack at the age of 59 in a hotel room that police described as filled with empty liquor and pill bottles. Some members of his staff eventually admitted that his bottled “demons” were simply internal organs taken from cows and pigs.
Several famous TV and radio evangelists emerged from Allen’s “ministry,” including Don Stewart and R. W. Schambach. These ministers were not nearly as blatantly radical as A. A. Allen, focusing more on the charismatic doctrine of healing and the health/wealth message. Schambach is a well-known prosperity preacher who often tells stories about people healed because they “sowed a seed faith gift” to his ministry. He also offered “prayer cloths” for a “generous love offering” so that people could receive their healings. He used to tell a story about how one schizophrenic was miraculously healed by M&Ms that he kept in his suit pocket. Like other healing and prosperity evangelists, many people flocked to Schambach’s meetings.
I have often wondered why supposedly gifted men like Benny Hinn and R. W. Schambach (who claim the power to heal anyone with their touch) did not simply flock to hospitals and nursing homes? Why don’t they visit AIDS hospices? Why don’t they mail boxes of “prayer cloths” to rehabilitation centers free of charge? More likely than not, they know that they aren’t quite a “gifted” as they would have us believe. I know a guy whose mother passed away after being told that she was healed of a disease at a Benny Hinn meeting. She stopped taking her medication (as a “step of faith”), and was seemingly fine for about six months. Her sudden death devastated her husband (a Presbyterian minister) and son. Subsequently, both of them were completely “turned off” to the Pentecostal experience because of this experiment with “charismania.”
I still know people who blame the devil for their stumped toes. Some of them believe that there is a spiritual cause for every physical effect. Sick with the cold? Need reading glasses? Cancer? Lay off from work? A dent on your fender? According to these people, the devil did it all!
While I am also weary of some things that are stated by sociologists, psychologists and psychiatrists – not everything they say is “crazy” (pardon my pun). Remember, psychiatrists are actually MEDICAL DOCTORS. They are simply diagnosticians who are supposedly qualified to differentiate between real mental illness and simple depression. Sociologists and psychologists often rely on behavior statistics and observations to make evaluations or recommendations. While I can’t speak for all of these professions, I imagine that some good can come from them.
While in junior high school, my uncle and his wife were visiting our home. I knew that my uncle’s wife had been diagnosed with schizophrenia as a result of her past drug use. One night, she had a “vision” in our living room that was almost frightening. She literally “saw” someone (a deceased loved one) and was having a conversation with him. It was disturbing (to say the least), and almost seemed “spiritual.” I wasn’t a Christian at the time, but even I prayed for her! Needless to say, she was back to “normal” (at least “normal” for her condition) after she took her medication. Oddly enough, she has been prayed for by MANY, MANY preachers – most of whom tried to exercise the “demon” out of her. I’ve often wondered how helpful it would be if these well-meaning believers could take her to the doctor since their prayers don’t seem to work. I suppose that it is much easier to blame the devil for everything.
This being said, I must express that I do believe in healing. I believe that God still heals – even mental illnesses like schizophrenia. The guy who was the best man at my wedding was a friend from college. He was the president of our local Chi Alpha Christian Fellowship. He had been diagnosed with epilepsy as a child. Little by little, his seizures grew worse. He told me stories about how he had a seizure while playing in the junior high school band. He “blacked out” while playing the trumpet – and continued to play while the band had stopped. He told me that his fellow band-mates were urging him to stop playing – unaware that he was having a seizure. Eventually, he began having a seizure much more frequently (I think at least once a week). One day during high school, he had a seizure while walking home. He blacked out but “woke up” while ringing the doorbell of some random house. After he told his parents about it, they immediately took them to their pastor (Pastor Don Leavell of Corpus Christi Christian Fellowship in Corpus Christi, Texas). My friend and his parents were desperate. They prayed for a complete healing – that his brain would be made “whole.” He never had a seizure again. In fact, he began to participate in sports – and even became the starting tight end at our nationally ranked football team. He also graduated with honors with a degree in Mechanical Engineering.
Was the cause of my friend’s problem [i]spiritual
:-(
And what do you guys/girls think about panic attacks?
I suffer them myself once in a while and I'm curious how you think about this. On the area of emotions, brains and demonic.
Anyone want to react?
Shalom
Are the SI moderators tolerant of posts that characterize people suffering from mental illness as being posessed by demons? don't these people have enough problems?
Your carnal, unscriptural, and worldly view points... like on another thread telling someone who is unsure of their salvation to see a shrink.. have been tolerated.
-Jim
read the post again, i suggested he see a doctor, not a "shrink". depression very often results from a physical problem.
bub
For those who are saying, "This is proven in the medical industry to be a physical disease, not a mental one, therefore it can't be demonic", this is faulty logic. Cancer is a physical disease, but is almost always demonic. It's a living evil spirit that destroys the body through physical affliction. Smith Wigglesworth would agree with this, that's why he would ALWAYS treat it as a demon and curse it and command it out, and people would always get healed. Demons cause physical affliction as well as mental, and they can physically affect portions of the brain as well. I've seen a man's hands shrink dramatically in seconds when a demon of arthritus was rebuked. The woman who Jesus healed in the synogogue (Luk 13:16) was bound by the DEVIL and needed deliverence from INFIRMITY, that was causing her physical affliction.
A failure to recognize these demonic bondages for what they are results inevitably in a failure to apply the right cure and see such tormented people are properly healed. Science and medicine will never cure this demonic bondage, just suppress it. JESUS is still in the business of making the insane whole!
For those of you who believe it to be demons, what would you say of a Christian with a mental illness? (Don't want to start a debate or anything, I'm just in the need of some answers.) Would the person then need deliverance and how would it be carried out?
Mental illness is demonic more times than not, for sure. Such a person should be taken throught the scriptures, prayed with, and a strong beleiver take such a one through deliverence and drive out demons. Or the individual himself has authority to deliver himself in the name of Jesus.
What do you imagine Christianity to be?
Of course we will be attacked mentally, spiritually and physically. Anyone thinks that we will not is smoking something.
Some of us will be depressed, others oppressed, but not demon possessed, unless you completely deny the LORD that bought you and call all that you have been redeemed from accursed.
Christians should never go and see a doctor/shrink for something that the LORD is putting you through. Yes, thats right I said the LORD is putting you through it because He said these words through Paul saying,
Within this trial of your faith your swimming in a world of doubt and unbelief and the temptation is to sin, the temptation is to abandon the LORD, the temptation is to run.1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
We call them depressions because they are depressing, we call them oppressing because they are oppressive. It's wicked spirits that are bombarding our mind and souls to get us off the track that the LORD has placed us on. It's no different then our LORD in the wilderness being tempted by the devil. He being the Word knew the word, He knew what to say to that devil.
We on the other hand do not know what to say until we know it in our spirits of who we are, who the word is and who God is. Thus the reason for the depression, it's a depression based upon a lack of knowledge. It's like when someone dies, and you don't have the answers. But when you begin to see clearly those answers the sadness lifts and joy is in it's place.
I see the need for believers to go through such experiences, we are coming into a major recession that will effect everyone on this planet. Many will enter a world of depression and there needs to be those who can give these people answers, both Christian and unbeliever alike because everyone will be affected.
Bubbaguy offers shallow advice, thinking only that the real solution is seeing an unregenerate man telling us how to overcome something that he doesn't believe in, that we have a spirit. The solution is to,
Are we not commanded to endure to the end? The end is not the end of the world because we don't know when that will ever be. But it's referring to the end of your trial, the end of your life on this earth, the end of your faith, etc..James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
Endure the trial, endure the depression, endure endure endure until we are delivered. Endure the temptation from men who say, "You need to see a shrink". Stay on the cross don't listen to the temptation of men saying, "come down off the cross and we'll believe".
Revival will put to rest all these petty arguments, it will put to rest the debates of Calvinism and Arminism, it will put to rest all that we think about what we think is right and true. When all this dissipates, when the Law and the Prophets disappear, the only one standing is Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
We have a plastic shallow outlook at what we are as Christians and how we are supposed to act towards one another and it's sickening. We can't be real at all, we expect things to be a certain way, we are no different than the Catholic Church with their daily rituals.
Be Blessed.
For those who are saying, "This is proven in the medical industry to be a physical disease, not a mental one, therefore it can't be demonic", this is faulty logic. Cancer is a physical disease, but is almost always demonic. It's a living evil spirit that destroys the body through physical affliction. Smith Wigglesworth would agree with this, that's why he would ALWAYS treat it as a demon and curse it and command it out, and people would always get healed.
Smith Wigglesworth is upheld as one of the great Pentecostal prophets and faith healers. he taught that God promises perfect physical wholeness, that the Christian has the power to command things into being, and that the Christian can operate in the same sign gifts that Christ exhibited. Even so, very few of those who sought Wigglesworth's healing ministrations were ever healed. His own wife died six years after he became a Pentecostal, and his son died two years after that. His daughter, who assisted in his meetings, was never healed of her deafness. For three years he himself suffered with gallstones. We who understand that physical healing is not PROMISED for this present time know that such things are part of God's sovereign plan and we are not confused by these events. God often heals in answer to prayer, but He does not always heal. According to the doctrine that physical healing is guaranteed in the atonement and is a part of the Gospel, though, such things should not occur. Those who hold this doctrine tell us that sickness is never a blessing of God, that it is of the devil, that it has been defeated on the cross. According to his own doctrine, Wigglesworth's daughter should have been healed of her deafness and he should have been healed of his own sicknesses. His wife should have been healed of the sickness that took her life when she was but a young woman, and his son should have been healed of the sickness that took him away in childhood.
Not everyone agrees with Wigglesworth and his teaching.
My Nephew died of Cancer 3 years ago......having nothing to do with demons but living on military bases now closed due to contamination. Interestingly, families who have known each other for years and lived on these same bases all had similar experiences of a high rate of cancer in their family members. Many many children and families are and have had family members die of cancer who are near contamination areas. One being in the Northwest....Hanford Atomic Energy.....now closed.
A dear friend many years ago...a Christian, died of liver cancer. She use to do arts and crafts in her basement, using acrylic sprays etc that caused her cancer. She became pregnant before she knew she had cancer, and carried her baby to full term NOT taking any medication of any kind for her pain etc. She died the same day her baby was born...a miracle! The baby was 100% healthy, while her mother was then 85 lbs.
It is so dangerous to tell people THEIR FAITH wasn't enough to save or heal them. That's a works kind of thing......putting all the responsibility on us. Many wonderful Christian have died of cancer/or illnesses.....and you want to say all Christians who have died of cancer or some kind of illness were demon possessed?
Were Wigglesworth's family members demon possessed?
Katy
If the team that prayed for me would not have had the discernment to see that I was demonized but instead would have sent me back to a psychatrics I probably would not be alive today.
The demons would have driven me into suicide sooner or later.
I understand that the Christian may go through mood swings in the process of mortification and sanctification. I still have them but the Lord always delivers me from these when I start praising him regardless.
It would be equally devastating to call someone who has some mental issues but truely saved demonized. Yes there are organic mental conditions such as authism, mongolism etc.
Psychatry in my eyes has probably done more damage than good. Sigmund Freud and his companions has lead scores of people to hell by telling than that they are victim to their upbringing and environment rather than a sinner in need of a saviour. If the patient would know that he has to stop sinning or doubting and get right with God, we could empty at least half of the mental wards.
Now we have a name for everything. Manic depressive, ADF, hyperactive, transsexuell, hysteric, narcistic etc. are excusable conditions and often seen as a license for some sort of behavior.
This calls for discernment and spriritual discernment is rare nowadays.
narrowpath
Back to Cancer vs demons for a moment.
What are the Causes and Risk Factors for some types of Cancer?
Tobacco
According to the National Cancer Institute, smoking causes 30% of all cancer deaths in the U.S. and is responsible for 87% of cases of lung cancer. Not only does it affect the lungs, it can cause kidney, pancreatic, cervical, and stomach cancers and acute myeloid leukemia. Quitting smoking immediately decreases your risk factor for cancer.
Obesity is a major cause for many cancers.
Genetics can play a big role in cancer development. If you have a family history of cancer, such as breast cancer, taking extra precautions is vital. When cancer is genetic, a mutated gene has been passed down. Genetic tests are available for many hereditary cancers. Keep in mind that if you have a family history of cancer, it does not mean you will develop it. You only have a greater chance of developing it.
Environmental Factors
The environment you are in can cause cancer.
Exposure to asbestos, a group of minerals found in housing and industrial building materials can cause a variety of medical problems, such as mesothelioma.
Studies have shown that people who are exposed to high amount of benzene are at risk for cancer. Benzene is a chemical found in gasoline, smoking, and pollution.
Sun Exposure
Skin cancer is caused by exposure to the UV rays of the sun. A sunburn, or a tan is actually the result of cell damage caused by the sun. Skin cancer can be prevented in most cases. Wearing sunscreen when outdoors and staying out of the sun between the hours of 10 a.m. and 2 p.m., when the sun's rays are strongest is your best defense.
Katy
ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
This is why medicine is so successful in treatment of schizophrenia (or should we assume that demons are bound by medicine?).
Answer: We know from Scripture that the demons in Saul were calmed (or could be say "bound"), by the music that David played so it is quite possible that medicine can indeed calm the effects of demons.
The next question I have is for those WHO BELIEVE, no one else please, who believe that bi-polar can be or most likely is a demon(s). Do you have any history with casting a demon out of a bi-polar person? One of my good friends is bi-polar and I've been praying about the time and place because she is miserable. She has so much other stuff in her life. She was abused growing up, her view on life is totally warped from her childhood and her brother put her in the state facility and sold all her possessions about 15 years ago. She married a very abusive man who only wanted her disability checks and she won't even talk about what he made her do. She's very fearful. Even though her brother is a creep, she keeps trying to bring him back into her life because "he's family." She has no reasoning abilities anymore. And I have no idea what she has tampered with occult wise or what her ex-husband and his friends tampered with and possibly put on her. I know there are demons, I just don't know how many. I know God is in control.
We all pray and pray for her but nothing has helped her. She is getting worse as the years go on. Any believing individuals who want to comment or pm me, please do so. We need all the help we can get. I have prayed that she would know freedom from these oppressive/depressive/fearful demons etc. on this earth that she wouldn't have to die to know freedom. Thank you so much.
Answer: We know from Scripture that the demons in Saul were calmed (or could be say "bound"), by the music that David played so it is quite possible that medicine can indeed calm the effects of demons.
3 things here:
1. The evil spirit was not IN Saul, but upon him.
2. The evil spirit departed from Saul, it wasn't bound.
3. God sent the evil spirit to afflict Saul.
1 Samuel 16:23And it came to pass, when the evil spirit from God was upon Saul, that David took an harp, and played with his hand: so Saul was refreshed, and was well, and the evil spirit departed from him.
So I would say spiritual beings, demonic spirits cannot be affected by medication. Actually drugs can invite demonic posession.
Satan asked permission to sift Peter. Satan also asked to sift Job. So, would it be fair to say that in some instances GOD allows this for His purposes? Did Paul not also have a thorn in the flesh?
2 Corinthians 12:7
And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
Did Satan also hinder Paul on one of his journey's where he had to wait on the Lord. I don't see where Paul commanded Satan to get out of the way.
1 Thessalonians 2:17-19
17But we, brethren, being taken from you for a short time in presence, not in heart, endeavoured the more abundantly to see your face with great desire.
18Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.
19For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming
More food for thought.
Katy
Incident or precedent?
Have been thinking about this for a long time now. How it applies in scripture. How one or the other can be taken and misconstrued depending on a particular premise or assumption.
How would these two apply in a discussion like this, towards healing or lack thereof, towards demons or effects of sin. What does scripture truly set forth, incident or precedent? Surely both, but are they being interchanged dishonestly?
As seemingly off subject as this might appear, there is a great deal of discernment that could apply here;
Isaiah64 wrote:
I'm wondering what the Christian perspective is on all this. Is something like schizophrenia always caused by demons, or is it also a legitimate medical problem?
I've quoted part of the original post above, and would like to clarify something that perhaps many are already aware of. But I will mention it for the benefit of those who are wondering.
There are those in one camp who say that all disease and affliction and infirmity whether physical or mental is a human condition that has nothing to do with the demonic.
Then again, I've known people in days past who believed that all sickness and infirmity was caused by demons.
I say that neither of these two camps is right.
I won't say anything about the first camp; I don't think I need to here.
But if you're in the second camp, if you believe this kind of thing, I'd like to ask you to be before the Lord about it. You can end up putting a heavy weight of condemnation on those who are sick not because they're possessed by demons, but merely because they happen to be part of Adam's fallen race.
For that's where a lot of sickness and infirmity comes from: we inherit it from Adam.
(Just an aside here: what about our inheritance in CHRIST, then? Why is it that we Christians are still afflicted with all the sin and sickness that's "part of the territory" we got from Adam? What about our inheritance in CHRIST?)
...But certainly demonic activity is involved in some cases.
A careful read of the Gospels shows that not all sicknesses are of demonic origin. And this is the thing: Jesus had the discernment to know in each case, whether, a) it was simply a sickness of the body, the fruit of Adam's sin, or perhaps, the fruit of the individual's own sin.
Or, b) it was a case which involved demonic oppression or possession.
"And at even, when the sun did set, they brought unto Him all that were diseased, [b]and[b]and
Notice the differentiation here. And you can follow it through in many other scriptures.
"Then was brought unto Him one that was possessed of a devil, blind, and dumb: and He healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw" (Mt. 12.22).
But you can't conclude from this that every blind and dumb person is possessed by an evil spirit, because there are other occasions when Jesus healed such, which was simply a case of physical infirmity, or disease. Like blind Bartimaeus (Mk. 10.46). Or Simon's wife's mother, who had a fever, and Jesus healed her. And many other such instances. Remember Zacharias who was struck dumb by the angel: this was clearly not demonic (Lk. 1.20).
So the call, then, is for discernment. One of the gifts of the Spirit is "discerning of spirits."
This should arrest us. God is saying we need discernment in this area.
Just theologizing that schizophrenia is always demonic... or the other camp, that it is just a medical problem... where is discernment? Where is Spirit-inspired discernment?
It's so grieving to see Christians at times just beating the air... just swinging in the dark... about these things... blindly presuming there is a demon hidden in every affliction that comes along, or a generational spirit, and trying to cast Satan out of the sick person, or binding the spirit... and then going their way, and leaving that sick person hurting more for the bruising of false exorcism... than for their affliction, which they carry back home with them along with the bruising.
Oh for discernment then, genuine, spirit-birthed discernment! And genuine spiritual authority that deals effectively and cleanly with the demons... WHEN they are there! Does not Christ still have this same kind of discernment, which He had long ago?
And is not a responsibility laid on us to seek to be one with Him, that the mind of Christ might illumine us in every situation we face?
But our problem is that so often we go beyond our measure, and act in presumption. Help us, Lord; purge this kind of ignorance out of us.
Thanks,
AD
Authority Over Demons - Corrie ten Boom
Over time, I have been in India a few times, serving in evangelism of that vast and dark country. It's kind of like a free for all for the Devil; the result being much more manifestations of real possessions than I imagined possible. I went usually uninsulated; among the poor; into the crowds, hands on prayer for every sickness and problem; I still do, and also in America.
The greatest sorrow that I encountered was not being able to heal or deliver the helpless poor. I've had ancient Demon spirits peer through the eyes of a 3 year old before, with no apparent deliverance, while crowds watched, and horrible, disfiguring and painful diseases go unchecked by God's power. It's very humbling. I have witnessed the miraculous, on occasion, though, and have seen God act.
I still, today, suffer in a like manner. You are right though, We need
"genuine Spirit Birthed Discernment", but Oh, so much much more.
We need Apostolic power to accompany our discernment. Jesus is the healer, not man. I am under no condemnation. There were many beggars and blind when Peter healed the lame man, yet, only one healed., and Jesus ' testimony in Nazareth,"he could do no mighty works there because of their unbelief"
Let us feel the tragedy of a mother watching her son deteriorate into a flapping fly, having escaped all reality, drifting in and out of violent voices bidding her harm. Is this demonic? yes. Is it a physical condition? Could be. Maybe both, but even if I nailed the discernment, and didn't heal, she would yet weep. I don't want to come off glib. We need Jesus, and the Graces of life to help.I want to end, by saying that Jesus never loses. He always wins. He rules forever. Many, many believers can bring testimony of catatonic and suicidal folk that Jesus touched and became whole. As far as drugs go, I see them as spiritual sedatives, kind of knocking you out of the spiritual effects of consciousness. What do you say to a mother whose only choice for survival for her child is to take these psycho-tropic sledge hammers??
Until the Lord comes. Until the Lord comes, and He will. I trust we will see a glorious Apostolic revival come before the end of this age, with all of the glory of Jesus involved, tearing down the mountains of opposition, and lifting up the valleys of oppression.
In the mean time we don't quit doing the Word, and standing in faith, whether we see the promises fulfilled, or not.
I love the great John Wimber's [deceased] teaching on healing. He called it "doin' the stuff."; basically, continuing in faith in the face of death and disease, asking God to perform his Word.[John was used for a few years in the most amazing ways in the miraculous and healings, including many insane and mentally afflicted people] Continue on the meds. until healing is manifest, you haven't sinned, and you will know when it's real....Brother Tom.
Isaiah64 wrote:
I'm wondering what the Christian perspective is on all this. Is something like schizophrenia always caused by demons, or is it also a legitimate medical problem?
And what do you guys/girls think about panic attacks?
I suffer them myself once in a while and I'm curious how you think about this. On the area of emotions, brains and demonic.
Anyone want to react?
Shalom
Hi DirkW
Carter Conlon, one of the featured speakers here suffered from horrendeous panic attacts and got delivered. I do not know which sermon it was, I was his personal testimony.
I do not want to give a glib answer, but this I know. Sickness may for some reason not be healed, but when it comes to fear, I believe there are enough bible promises that Gods wants to deliver us from fear in ANY case. Go to biblegateway.com and search for fear.
narrowapath
DirkW,
I used to suffer from panic attacks. I also had some major trials in my life about 2-3 years ago which left me emotionally broken- this led to a downward spiral into fear, depression and a panic attack that lasted for days. I would really call it a nervous breakdown, but I also call it the longest panic attck ever becuase my adrenelin was up so high for so many days that I couldn't sleep.
It's been almost 2 years since that last panic attack/ nervous breakdown- and I have never had another one and I doubt I ever will.
I am on no medication and didn't use any except for the first couple of days becaue I was desperate to find something that might help me. But I hated any medication and knew the Lord could help me.
I don't believe I had a demon at all- though i am sure the enemy took full advantage of my situation. What I learned was that i was my own worst enemy when it came to fear and panic and depression. It was my thoughts, - I had to learn to take them captive. I had to learn to renew my mind- stop believing lies and replace them with the truth.
I can honestly say that God has delivered me from panic attacks, from depression and an emotional breakdown. But it was a process. One where I had to learn the tools to use and how to renew my own mind according to scripture.
For anyone who has problems with fear, panic or depression - it doesn't mean you necessarily have a demon. I didn't and today I am fine. If for any reason I 'feel' like I am starting to get depressed or 'feel' weird from fear (which is almost never anymore) I know exactly how to take my thoughts captive and what to do.
Martyn Lloyd Jones has an excellent book called SPIRITUAL DEPRESSION. It has helped me alot too.
What we need to realize also is that we cannot go by 'feelings' by what we feel. That is not always the truth. People who have panic or anxiety are usually very sensative and are prone to 'feel' everything. If we have the littlest pain in our chest- we think we are having a heart attack- if we feel a little off balance for a second- we think we are going to faint and pass out- and of course that means we have some major disease....ect...... We always think the worst-- but just know that this is a HABIT that we can change. Wrong thinking is a HABIT. And just like any other habit- to break it successfully we need to replace it.
Most people who experience anxiety/panic are similar personality types. Sensative, perfectionist, set unbelievable high standards for self, deep thinkers, analytical (all that analyzing and deep thinking can get you in a world of trouble when it comes to anxiety).
DIRKW, if you would like more information as to how I got totally free from Panic/anxiety- message me and I'll give you some mroe details.
Anyone can be free and it doesn't take meds or demon deliverance.
So thankful for Christ, Chanin
Mike, I very much liked this article Pastorfrin posted....the Secret of Tranquillity.
I think in the midst of this conversation, it brings balance.
I know back in the 80's there was a sister Baptist Church who became very involved in all this demon stuff. Our Churches would do things together, and every time we got together with them...that is all they talked about...demons, casting out demons...etc. There became more talk about demonic activity then Praising Jesus Christ, and many in our Church became concerned.
I live in Atlanta...and at that time there was a park in Atlanta where it was very dangerous to go. All sorts of strange people hiding in the bushes.
Well, one morning the Pastor's daughter and daughter in law decided to go to this park, by themselves....who really knows what was on their minds...possibly to prove they had power over demons..who knows. Both these women were viciously raped, one died, and my understanding the other has never been the same.
The Pastor was never the same again after that, stepping down, and soon after passed away, broken hearted.
Nearly 20 years later...today, this Church has New Life within....Preaching the Gospel, Praising Jesus Christ.
I honestly believe one needs to have Jesus Christ within, and Christ IN YOU will overcome. But our minds need to be ON CHRIST, and His Word, not demons.
Growing up in an abusive home, I too had many issues, panic attacks..PTSD, etc, and Jesus Christ set me free, as HIS Life was being formed in me. When I would have these moments, the Lord would always bring me to scripture.
When He told me He didn't give us a spirit of fear but of peace, love and an sound mind...I grabbed that promise by faith, and walked in it. Now that's POWER over the enemy.
And this one, most precious....so true!
Philippians 4:7-9
7And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
8Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
9Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.
I'm so grateful that no one got a hold of me and wanted to cast out demons... Why? Because I would not know the Lord or His Word the way I do. My strength would not be In Him, but in someone else, I would be running to all the time for help in time of need.
Jesus wants to be LORD of your Live. He wants you to KNOW HIM, His Love, His Life in you, and His care for you. Cast your cares on Him.
Katy
Interesting thread and close to home for me.
moreofHim, thanks for sharing your self to this thread it's a blessing.
There it shows in this thread many does has or still affected of this oppression. Trully cannot be [b]narrow minded[b]narrow path
hhhmmmmm ....
Be at peace and strong in the Lord. For whoever the Son set free are free indeed.
Bless you DirkW.
The question is not about Christianity per se', but about ministry, and that to the helpless. Lazarus had no faith to exercise, he was dead. The Gadarene Demoniac, with multitudes of devils, could not deliver himself. When you die, will you grow wings, and flap real hard, upward?...No, of course not, but by God's power we will be raised to heaven, as Jesus was.
So, with your faith, will you serve the helpless? Will you lay hands on the insane, and exercise your authority to heal? I hope that you care, and after a failure or two, as we all have had that has ever tried to deliver , or pray for the sick, maybe you could see the point we are discussing here. I wish it was as easy and simple to declare our faith and agreement with God's word , but remember the disciples when they couldn't, and then Jesus came. "oh ye of little faith!"
So, after you fail, and you will, what will be your response ?? " It's the sick ones fault! They didn't have the faith!" or, will it be "Help me Lord, a man of little faith!", and then, there must be real answers for those who live in the real world. "Do I medicate my suicidal teenager?", or do you say that everything will be OK, just believe.
I cannot condemn one who chooses this path, if my ministry cannot deliver the helpless. I hope my compassion would lead me into prevailing, unyielding prayer UNTIL healing comes. brothertom P.S. by grace I have witnessed real deliverence, but not in a continuing new Testament way.
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