2 Samuel 14:17, spiritual gift of discernment?

themumfs Apr 3, 2008

i have a question about this passage, which reads

"Then your maidservant said, 'Please let the word of my lord the king be comforting, for as the angel of God, so is my lord the king to discern good and evil. And may the Lord your God be with you.'" (2Sam. 14:17, NASB)

this seems to imply that David (the king) had what we know in corinthians to be described as the spiritual gift of discernment. But this is before christ and the coming of the holy spirit. Yes the Holy Spirit did come upon David, but that doesnt meant that he had the holy spirit dwelling inside him as is the situation post cruicifixion. Also, joab states in this verse that david is "as the angel of God" what does it all mean???

sermonindex Apr 3, 2008

David is quoted more than anyone [psalms] in the new testament. The Word says "As the Holy Spirit spoke THROUGH THE MOUTHS OF THE PROHETS" David's messianic predictions are prolific compared to other prophets. In on of the Psalms, David cries"TAKE NOT YOUR HOLY SPIRIT FROM ME, AND RESTORE UNTO ME THE JOY OF THY SALVATION"

Whether or not he was born again, it is obvious that David had a deep and profound relationship with the Father. He saw the Lord in full battle array with His sword drawn at the future temple site, FACE TO FACE. [he became terrified for days] The Lord spoke to him often, with great clarity, including eternal truths concerning Jesus, and His cross, given to no other man, that fed Israel for a thousand years, and as I have noted, Jesus quoted David more than any other, as His word.

Out of David came the Messiah Himself,["SON OF DAVID, HAVE MERCY ON US" [the lepers cry], and all of the Kings of Judah, there-by the Holy Seed of God. There are more DIRECT promises, from the Lord, through Davids lips, than any other prophet {I believe,] and with out doubt, David has been sung by more people than any man in human history.

David delivered Israel in more spectacular fashion than any other man,[ beginning as cowering squatters terrified of the
philistines, ending as the Ruler of all Nations, with incredible wealth and prestige], and David himself was the recipient of many well known miracles that are spoken of worldwide today, in all nations. He also was known by God and man as a man who had the privilege to Inquire the Lord Himself DIRECTLY, like a handful of chosen prophets in human history.

An Angel, is a messenger of God, either to deliver His Word, deliverance, provision, or wrath. David accomplished all of these, with regularity[not without failure, obviously] and forever has a name with the greatest. He is AS an angel of god.

I believe that I will see David seated among the 24 Shepard's around the throne. I will be surprised if not. Do you think that maybe, when the time comes, he might be the very first to cast his crown down to cry worthy is the Lamb? David revealed MERCY as no one other than Jesus Himself as an attribute of YAHWEH, and 1000 years before the advent of the Messiah, he sang," I will sing of the mercies of the Lord forever".

The cross itself is mercy, subduing the enemies of the Lord...The world, our satanic self natures, and the Devil himself, with all of his followers. "The Lord said unto my Lord, sit thou at My Right Hand until I make your enemies your footstool." [JESUS SPEAKING OF HIMSELF SPEAKING THROUGH DAVID, IN THE PSALMS].

David had discernment by capturing God's heart as no other. Brother Tom.

ccchhhrrriiisss Apr 3, 2008

Hi themumfs...

this seems to imply that David (the king) had what we know in corinthians to be described as the spiritual gift of discernment. But this is before christ and the coming of the holy spirit. Yes the Holy Spirit did come upon David, but that doesnt meant that he had the holy spirit dwelling inside him as is the situation post cruicifixion.

Interesting question!

While I am not entirely certain that what David displayed was a ~~[i]~~spiritual[/i] gift of discernment (ala I Corinthians), it is possible that his discernment was directed by the Lord. Remember, the "gifts" were present in the Old Testament (in a much different sense) when the prophets prophesied and when Elijah and Elisha performed miracles. Even King Saul was counted amongst the prophets at a time when he wasn't necessarily acting very "spiritual" (I Samuel 19:24). Were these ~~[i]~~spiritual gifts[/i] or simply the result of the Spirit of the Lord coming ~~[i]~~upon[/i] an individual?

~~[b]~~What is “discernment?”[/b]

I think that we really need a good study in what "discernment" really is. What does it mean to discern? Most dictionaries will equate discernment with intellectual or sensory recognition, perception, detection, and an ability to distinguish or decipher between matters. The New Testament speaks about “discernment of spirits” or “discernment between spirits” (I Corinthians 12:10). It seems that this is referring to a supernatural gift from God to distinguish between “spirits.” Are the “spirits” here speaking of ~~[i]~~spiritual beings[/i] or ~~[i]~~attitudes[/i] (or both)? I tend to believe that this gift is comprehensive enough to cover both.

On the surface, each person has an ability to “discern.” Of course, this doesn’t mean that it is a spiritual gift, but more of cognitive deduction. We are presented with various paths or decisions in life and we make a decision about those things. We often make decisions based upon discernment achieved through years of experience. This natural discernment often is derived from lessons learned and is often equated with wisdom. Every person, every parent and every leader exercises this natural form of discernment in everyday life. One might say that we need “discernment” right now to “discern” whether or not someone’s “gift of discernment” is truly the result of a gift from God.

It appears to me that a true “gift of discernment” is a supernatural ability to distinguish between individuals, intent, or situations that are completely undecipherable on the surface. Of course, there is a strong risk of individuals who claim such a gift who then use it to gossip, argue or manipulate the opinions of those around them. This, in my opinion, is a telling sign that such a person does NOT exercise such a gift. Why would God place such a gift into a person with such intent?

~~[b]~~“God told me…!” or “God showed me…”[/b]

How often have we heard, during a discussion about important matters, a person invoke the “God told me” or “God showed me” response? Whether we are discussing a matter as simple as the color of carpet in our church buildings or important issues of doctrine, someone will inevitably utter these words. I am convinced that these people, although well-meaning, are not REALLY hearing God most of the time. It is my perspective that they are just trying to add weight to their opinion – especially in matters that are not vitally important. I once heard a pastor reply to a person who invoked the “God showed me” remark. He said, “~~[i]~~Did God really ‘show’ you that or did you just figure it out[/i]?” This pastor did not mean to be offensive, but to express how we often invoke God on the side of our opinion when we either used simple logic, wisdom or experience to arrive to our conclusion.

~~[b]~~Gifted “discerners” with poor discernment…[/b]

I have seen some individuals claim a "gift" or "ministry" of discernment -- yet their actions reflected gossip, cynicism, condemnation and pride. Yet they spoke of their “gift” in an almost boastful manner. Is this the result of “discernment?” Or is this simply someone simply become “wise in their own eyes” and claiming that their “discernment” is a product of the Lord? When their “discernment” is rejected, such individuals typically invoke the same defense used by many would-be prophets who claim that such rejection is because “~~[i]~~prophets are misunderstood and rejected[/i] and “~~[i]~~most people just don’t understand the office of a prophet[/i].” Some people that parade their “gifts” of discernment (and prophecy) often grow annoyed when someone chooses to question or examine their words. It seems that they fail to recognize that we are called to “test everything” (I Thessalonians 5:21) remembering that the “spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophet” (I Corinthians 14:32).

Unfortunately, most of the believers that I have encountered (particularly those who almost boast about their “gift”) seldom exhibit a truly Biblical utility of such a gift. It seems that many who claim the gift often end up casting “surface judgment” that is simply based upon their limited understanding of the situation. In other words, they end up “figuring things out” by leaning on their own understanding while attributing this understanding to the Lord.

I understand that most of these individuals truly believed that they are gifted by God for such things. Yet we must ask how they are profiting both themselves and the Kingdom of God? Many churches today have endured (yes, endured) the wiles of a person who publicly boasts such a gift. When their words are rejected or questioned, these individuals revert to the “poor me” syndrome. They claim that the examination or rejection of their words might either be personal – or possibly a rejection of truth. In turn, these brethren often question the ability of others to “discern” – including the leadership of the local Church. I have heard and even witnessed instances of “watchmen” and “prophets” who lead a quiet ~~[u]~~rebellion[/u] against an individual or an authority. Most of the time, these individuals do not realize the damage that they create. They simply cannot fathom how an individual or a leader cannot arrive to the same conclusion or “recognize the truth.”

~~[b]~~We need discernment![/b]

We are living in the troubling times. There is a need for true, Biblical discernment more than ever before! Why? Not all things are as they appear. The surface of a matter does not always reflect the inner truth of a situation. Often, the surface reflects an image that masks the inner depth of a situation. Too often, we judge things by what we see on the surface which is often hindered by our limited eyesight or even our own reflection. True discernment sees past the surface. It looks past the gossip, past the rumors and even past the apparent “facts” of a situation. True discernment is the ability to understand the guidance, understanding and heart of God regarding a matter.

How often have we arrived to a conclusion only to later learn that our initial observations upon which that conclusion was based were either partially or entirely incorrect? How often have individuals cast judgment on a situation based upon a limited perspective? How often do people use their “discernment” as an attempt to direct the beliefs, persuasions or opinions of a group? True discernment is not hasty. It is not proud. It allows for patient examination of a warning so that a truth can be determined. Unfortunately, this is seldom seen in those who wear a badge of discernment. Even many of the “discernment ministries” found online simply appeal to readers or adherents to believe in a certain way.

Even the “gifted” Church in Corinthians lacked the utilization of true spiritual discernment. Sure, they were “flowing” in the gifts. People were prophesying, speaking in tongues, etc… -- but they were in the midst of vile, unrepentant sin (I Corinthians 5). One individual had a sexual relationship with his own mother! This was not gossip, rumors, insinuations or even questionable allegations. This wasn’t past sin that was washed away by Christ’s blood. This was current, unrepentant sin that Paul even claimed that the Church was proud of (verse 2)! Yet people were still prophesying. People were still speaking in tongues. Where was the gift of discernment?

This is why discernment is needed. We need humble servants of the Cross who can obtain the opinion of God in a matter and gently direct a situation accordingly. We don’t need for gossips, fear mongers, conspiracy theorists or opinionated minds to muddle the water between truth and rumor. We need believers who can discern between truth and falsehood. We need believers who can discern between intent and attitudes. We need believers who can discern between spirits (because not every spirit truly comes from God). We need to believers who can look past the surface evidence and see the truth that lay only in the mind of Christ. We need believers who receive their discernment from the heart of God rather than a hasty examination of individuals, situations or doctrine. We need truth, spoken in love, which always points the individual and collective Church toward the end result desired by God. Otherwise, we are simply chasing the wind.

The end of all of these gifts – whether discernment or prophesy – is to reveal the truth and love of God to both the Church and a lost and dying world. Without such love, our gifts are but a sounding brass and a tinkling cymbal. May the Lord gift the Church with true spiritual discernment!

:-)

rookie Apr 3, 2008

1 Samuel 16:13

Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

The Spirit of God according to Scripture never left David. It says in this Scripture that the Spirit came upon David...just like what happened at Pentecost...when Peter quoted Joel.

In the solid teachings of Denny Kenaston you will find a wealth of Scriptural teaching on the Holy Spirit's work in David...

http://www.charityministries.org/msg_detail.a5w?vlast_index=SET146

In Christ
Jeff

ChrisJD Apr 4, 2008

Hi everyone.

themumfs, how are you?

Welcome to the forums also.

About the question you brought up for us...

I think the discernment that is in view here has to do with making good or wise or right judgments. Not that this would not be a gift, but I do not think it is the same as is in 1Cor 12:10, for instance.

In 2Samuel 23, king David says

"The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spoke to me, He that ruleth over men ~~[i]~~must be[/i] just, ruling in the fear of God"

That's what I think is in view here in this passage too.

In our text, David is asked by this woman to judge in a matter(which all appears to be a ruse, at the instigation of Joab, in order to get him to bring Absalom, the king's son, who had killed one of his brothers, back to Jerusalem).

So when the woman says to him

"The word of my lord the king shall now be comfortable: for as an angel of God, so ~~[i]~~is[/i] my lord the king to discern good and bad..."

I think she is saying he is going to do what is right because he is like one that speaks for God or that rules with God's wisdom(for "an angel of God" compare here with Ex 23:20-23, Dan 4:17, Luke 1:19-20).

Just a bit further on it would seem that David perceived that Joab was behind this. But how might that be significant?

Well, isn't it true that there is more to making righteous judgments in this world than applying right morals to the "obvious facts" at hand? And don't we too often find that things are not quite as they may have seemed at first?

When Adam and Eve sinned, the scripture says that God said of them

"Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:"

And so to live as God? And to make the right decisions about the good and evil that they now knew.

But how hard is that! So often, don't we find that we just don't know enough to make the right decisions in life? How many things are hidden from us when we have to make descisons about furture events or about others around us? How on earth can we possibly know everything there is to know and do what is absolutely right? And besides that all of the inner conflicts and pressures that cloud our judgments.

We need wisdom from God. Because He sees all things clearly. We need Him.

And that's what I think David had. God was with him in the decisions that he made(1Samuel 18:14).

Chris

rookie Apr 4, 2008

Brother Chris wrote...

We need wisdom from God. Because He sees all things clearly. We need Him.

Proverbs 1:22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?

23 Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto you.

According to Scripture all wisdom that is of God comes from the Holy Spirit. Whether it is David or Paul, the wisdom that they received is given to those to turn toward Him. This is the promise found in verse 23...

"Turn you at my reproof: behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make my words known unto you."

Man cannot know the wisdom of God unless He speaks to man. The Counselor is given so that we might know His will. David was annointed with the Holy Spirit to know God's words. David was conformed into the image of God's Son. That is the only way that David might have a heart that pleases the Father.

In Christ
Jeff

Christinyou Apr 4, 2008

Rookie wrote:

""David was conformed into the image of God's Son. That is the only way that David might have a heart that pleases the Father.""

Where does it say the David was conformed into the Image of Jesus Christ?

And, The Christ in you is the only One that is pleasing to the Father. God does not even put me in the equation, that is why He birthed His Son in us, only because we believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. Christ in you the Hope of Glory is the only one He deals with, that conforming us to the image of His Son.

Ephesians 2:20-22 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The Temple of Christ in you, The Temple of the Holy Spirit, The Temple of God the Father.

1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Cr 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

It takes being born again to be formed into the image of God's Son. Then it is the Christ in us that is the Wisdom of God, the Holy Spirit is the teacher of this truth.

1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

It is the Life of Jesus Christ the Sperm of God, in an act of Love that Jesus Christ is now our new life.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

Phl 3:10 That I may know Him, and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being made conformable unto His death;

This is the Holy Spirit:

John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

This is what the Holy Spirit was sent for, to teach us who this Christ that is now our life, that has been born again in us, who He truly is.

John 14:20 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.

What Day:? The day of Pentecost.

Teacher of the Christ that is in us:

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Christ is our Life and all that the Father is, for they both make their abode in us and with us. The Holy Spirit is specifically spoken of seven times in John 14,15,16 and 17 as our Teacher. The Power is the Life of Christ in us, the teacher of this power is the Holy Spirit who is now in us forever and will teach us Christ for all eternity.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

Still our Teacher, not the Life, for only Christ is our Life. Only Christ is our Seed, Only Christ is our link to the Father, Only Christ and the Seed of the Father which is Christ, has made us son's of God.

John 16:7-15 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

Why, Christ in us and not the Holy Spirit being our life.

John 17:20-23 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

This is the difference in the old testament and the New Testament in His Blood.

And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.

Our only Glory:

Colossians 1:26-29 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

Christ is not the Holy Spirit. Christ is our life, the Holy Spirit is the Teacher of our life in Christ.

In Christ: Phillip

ChrisJD Apr 5, 2008

Hi again everyone,

A couple of examples from scripture come to mind also,

"And the counsel of Ahithophel, which he counseled in those days, ~~[i]~~was[/i] as if a man had inquired at the oracle of God: so ~~[i]~~was[/i] all the counsel of Ahithophel both with David and with Absalom. "

- 2Sam 16:23(KJV)

And in Isaiah, Cyrus is called the Lord's anointed. See Isaiah 45:1-13.

I don't think we need to make more of this than it is. God graciously gives wisdom to all sorts of men. For His own purposes.

Chris

rookie Apr 5, 2008

Brother Phillip wrote:

Where does it say the David was conformed into the Image of Jesus Christ?

From where do men say that Scriptures teach that David is a "type" of Christ?

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Apr 5, 2008

Brother Chris wrote:

I don't think we need to make more of this than it is. God graciously gives wisdom to all sorts of men. For His own purposes.

This is very true. We find this precept clearly taught in Romans 1 and Proverbs 1-2.

But in respect to what Scripture teaches on the life of David we are given a rich testimony of a man who's heart was fashioned by God so that as Scripture says,

Acts 13:22 And when He had removed him, He raised up for them David as king, to whom also He gave testimony and said, “I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after My own heart, who will do all My will.’

Please notice the very last thought of this particular Scripture...

"a man after My own heart, who will do all My will."

How does God enable David so that this Scripture is not broken but remains true? What is God's provision?

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Apr 5, 2008

Has anyone begun listening to Denny Kenaston's teaching on the life of David? This man's preaching is also anointed....

http://www.charityministries.org/msg_detail.a5w?vlast_index=SET146

In Christ
Jeff

ChrisJD Apr 5, 2008

Hi Jeff,

Initially it was asked here if what is described in the passage from Samuel was ~~[b]~~the same as the gift of discerning of spirits in Corinthians[/b].

I don't think it is.

Hope that clarifies things a bit more,

Chris

Christinyou Apr 5, 2008

Quote:

""Has anyone begun listening to Denny Kenaston's teaching on the life of David? This man's preaching is also anointed....""

God does not want us to be like David, if man can do it himself as this man is preaching, then Christ died in vain.

Gods want for us is to embrace the Christ that He sacrificed for us and become like Him. There is no life in David or any other old testament prophet. There is only life in Christ Jesus our Lord, Whom God has rebirthed in the believer that we might have the nature and life of God in us.

If I am going to study a biography, it will be the life of the Christ that is in me, He is the only one who is pleasing to God, He has the Heart of God and does not have to be after it, It is His. Making it ours by His life that is in us. I don't have to be a man after God's own heart, God Himself has birthed that Person in us and His Heart is ours and ours is His.

God chose David to be an example of who Christ would be and now is in our life. It was Gods work and good pleasure that David was a shadow of Christ. Christ is the completion of that shadow and as He is in this world so are we, not by anything that we have done or ever will do, but by the work of Christ in you the Only Hope of Glory.

1 John 4:14-21 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love. We love him, because he first loved us. If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen? And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

This is of God, not imitating David's life.

""Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as He is, so are we in this world.""

In Christ: Phillip

rookie Apr 6, 2008

this seems to imply that David (the king) had what we know in corinthians to be described as the spiritual gift of discernment. But this is before christ and the coming of the holy spirit. Yes the Holy Spirit did come upon David, but that doesnt meant that he had the holy spirit dwelling inside him as is the situation post cruicifixion. Also, joab states in this verse that david is "as the angel of God" what does it all mean???

The Lord gave David the Holy Spirit based on Scripture. One of the fruits of the Spirit in David's life is discernment...

Psalm 17:
4 \tConcerning the works of men,
\tBy the word of Your lips,
\tI have kept away from the paths of the destroyer.

"By the word of Your lips" This is David's testimony of the Holy Spirit's work which teaches him to discern evil.

Psalm 25:
8 \tGood and upright is the LORD;
\tTherefore He teaches sinners in the way.
9 \tThe humble He guides in justice,
\tAnd the humble He teaches His way.
10 \tAll the paths of the LORD are mercy and truth,
\tTo such as keep His covenant and His testimonies.
11 \tFor Your name’s sake, O LORD,
\tPardon my iniquity, for it is great.
12 \tWho is the man that fears the LORD?
\tHim shall He teach in the way He chooses.
13 \tHe himself shall dwell in prosperity,
\tAnd his descendants shall inherit the earth.
14 \tThe secret of the LORD is with those who fear Him,
\tAnd He will show them His covenant.

Here again we have David in whom the Spirit of God caused him to write these words...

Again..."The secret of the Lord is with those who fear Him, and He will show them His covenant."

Psalm 27

7 \tHear, O LORD, when I cry with my voice!
\tHave mercy also upon me, and answer me.
8 \tWhen You said, “Seek My face,”
\tMy heart said to You, “Your face, LORD, I will seek.”
9 \tDo not hide Your face from me;
\tDo not turn Your servant away in anger;
\tYou have been my help;
\tDo not leave me nor forsake me,
\tO God of my salvation.
10 \tWhen my father and my mother forsake me,
\tThen the LORD will take care of me.
11 \tTeach me Your way, O LORD,
\tAnd lead me in a smooth path, because of my enemies.

Again we see a conversation between David and the Lord. How does God teach David?

Psa. 36:0 To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David the servant of the LORD.

Psa. 36:1 \tAn oracle within my heart concerning the transgression of the wicked:
\tThere is no fear of God before his eyes.
2 \tFor he flatters himself in his own eyes,
\tWhen he finds out his iniquity and when he hates.
3 \tThe words of his mouth are wickedness and deceit;
\tHe has ceased to be wise and to do good.
4 \tHe devises wickedness on his bed;
\tHe sets himself in a way that is not good;
\tHe does not abhor evil.
5 \tYour mercy, O LORD, is in the heavens;
\tYour faithfulness reaches to the clouds.
6 \tYour righteousness is like the great mountains;
\tYour judgments are a great deep;
\tO LORD, You preserve man and beast.
7 \tHow precious is Your lovingkindness, O God!
\tTherefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of Your wings.
8 \tThey are abundantly satisfied with the fullness of Your house,
\tAnd You give them drink from the river of Your pleasures.
9 \tFor with You is the fountain of life;
\tIn Your light we see light.
10 \tOh, continue Your lovingkindness to those who know You,
\tAnd Your righteousness to the upright in heart.
11 \tLet not the foot of pride come against me,
\tAnd let not the hand of the wicked drive me away.
12 \tThere the workers of iniquity have fallen;
\tThey have been cast down and are not able to rise.

Here David teaches about the wicked and the righteous.
7 \tHow precious is Your lovingkindness, O God!
\tTherefore the children of men put their trust under the shadow of Your wings.
8 \tThey are abundantly satisfied with the fullness of Your house,
\tAnd You give them drink from the river of Your pleasures.
9 \tFor with You is the fountain of life;
\tIn Your light we see light.
10 \tOh, continue Your lovingkindness to those who know You,
\tAnd Your righteousness to the upright in heart.

Scripture teaches that the Holy Spirit fashioned his heart. The Holy Spirit testifies that David could discern between good and evil.

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Apr 6, 2008

Brother Phillip wrote:

God does not want us to be like David, if man can do it himself as this man is preaching, then Christ died in vain.

Paul wrote this to Timothy...

2Tim. 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God...

Paul is only mentioned 156 times in Scripture....

David appears 1087 times in Scripture....

Brother Phillip, have you considered why the Scriptures testify of David's life as a "type" of Christ?

In Christ
Jeff

Christinyou Apr 7, 2008

Yes I have considered the Life of David and don't want to be like David, that would be taking a step down from what God in Christ Jesus has made me, A SON.

2 Timothy 3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Was David perfect? Was Christ Perfect?

I hope you see the difference and the difference that Christ in you makes in the believer. He is the One that furnishes all the good works that is in us. Not David.

This is the fulfillment of all God's works. This is the only thing that will make us perfect and that is the Christ birthed in us.

There is no perfection in David who was just a shadow of Christ the Only Perfect One and He the only One making us perfect.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

David does not work in me mightily.

We will meet David some day and we will See Jesus as He really is. Who would you want to be like and who would you want to bring your salvation dependence to. The Law of David and Israel or the Grace of Christ. Which would you want to put your trust and life in, the mercy poured out on David and Israel or the Grace through the Faith of the Son of God. Mercy or Grace

I will choose God's loving Grace in Christ Jesus, our life, over mercy every time.

To not do all the works of the Law demands Mercy or death. To live in Grace demands the works accomplished by the Grace giver in the one who has received Grace by the Grace givers Faith.

How are we presented Perfect to God the Father?

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may ((((present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.)))))

This is according to His working in us, that we can be presented perfect to the Father. Truly Christ in you is the only Hope of Glory.

Who does the work in us? Certainly not David or his life, because it was God who wrought the works in David's life not David. David's works were adultry and murder and not being a good father.

In Christ: Phillip

ChrisJD Apr 7, 2008

Hi everyone

"David's works were..."

Remember too how he had to be kept back from killing Nabal. And the census that he took, where 70,000 died in Israel.

"The God of Israel said, the Rock of Israel spoke to me, He that ruleth over men ~~[i]~~must be[/i] just, ruling in the fear of God. And ~~[i]~~he shall be[/i] as the light of the morning, ~~[i]~~when[/i] the sun riseth, ~~[i]~~even[/i] a morning without clouds; ~~[i]~~as[/i] the tender grass ~~[i]~~springing[/i] out of the earth by clear shining after rain. Although my house ~~[i]~~be[/i] not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all ~~[i]~~things[/i], and sure: for ~~[i]~~this is[/i] all my salvation, and all ~~[i]~~my[/i] desire, although he make it not to grow."

- 2Samuel 23:3-5(KJV)

"...Although my house ~~[i]~~be[/i] not so with God"

rookie Apr 7, 2008

Yes I have considered the Life of David and don't want to be like David, that would be taking a step down from what God in Christ Jesus has made me, A SON.

There is no perfection in David who was just a shadow of Christ the Only Perfect One and He the only One making us perfect.

How then does one reconcile this Scripture...

Act 13:22 And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the [son] of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will.

Was God wrong when He said this of David?

How about Psalm 40, a song which David wrote...

Psa 40:1 ¶ [[To the chief Musician, A Psalm of David.]] I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry.

Psa 40:2 He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, [and] established my goings.

Psa 40:3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, [even] praise unto our God: many shall see [it], and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.

Psa 40:4 Blessed [is] that man that maketh the LORD his trust, and respecteth not the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.

Psa 40:5 Many, O LORD my God, [are] thy wonderful works [which] thou hast done, and thy thoughts [which are] to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: [if] I would declare and speak [of them], they are more than can be numbered.

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering thou didst not desire; mine ears hast thou opened: burnt offering and sin offering hast thou not required.

Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,

Psa 40:8 I delight to do thy will, O my God: yea, thy law [is] within my heart.

Psa 40:9 I have preached righteousness in the great congregation: lo, I have not refrained my lips, O LORD, thou knowest.

Psa 40:10 I have not hid thy righteousness within my heart; I have declared thy faithfulness and thy salvation: I have not concealed thy lovingkindness and thy truth from the great congregation.

Psa 40:11 Withhold not thou thy tender mercies from me, O LORD: let thy lovingkindness and thy truth continually preserve me.

Psa 40:12 For innumerable evils have compassed me about: mine iniquities have taken hold upon me, so that I am not able to look up; they are more than the hairs of mine head: therefore my heart faileth me.

Psa 40:13 Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me: O LORD, make haste to help me.

Psa 40:14 Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.

Psa 40:15 Let them be desolate for a reward of their shame that say unto me, Aha, aha.

Psa 40:16 Let all those that seek thee rejoice and be glad in thee: let such as love thy salvation say continually, The LORD be magnified.

Psa 40:17 But I [am] poor and needy; [yet] the Lord thinketh upon me: thou [art] my help and my deliverer; make no tarrying, O my God.

How does one reconcile these Scriptures "based" on the Scriptures?

In Christ
Jeff

Christinyou Apr 7, 2008

2 Corinthians 5:16-21 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

After the flesh, we are to know no man, not depending on the works of the flesh or anything the flesh has accomplished. David was a man after God's own heart, only because God first gave him the heart to seek Him. We know David no longer in the flesh, if we are to know him, we will know him only in the spirit, if it pleases God. Seek Christ and His kingdom, where we are seated with Him in the Spirit in Heavenly Places and this is what is pleasing to God, be ye reconciled to God by the Christ that is now our lives.

With Christ in us we are new creatures, born of God, not just used of God to show what He was going to do when His own Son would Go to the Cross and accomplish the newness of life we have in Christ.

God knew that even if He raised up a David that no one would listen and would still need a savior and new life to bring son's of God into His House.

That is accomplished in Christ our only hope of Glory.

In Christ: Phillip

ChrisJD Apr 7, 2008

Hi Jeff,

About Acts 13:22, the entry in Robertson's Word Pictures suggests that...

"The words quoted by Paul as a direct saying of God are a combination of Psa_89:20, Psa_89:21; 1Sa_13:14 (the word of the Lord to Samuel about David)."

Also...

"Hackett observes that the commendation of David is not absolute, but, as compared with the disobedient Saul, he was a man who did God’s will in spite of the gross sin of which he repented (Ps 51). Note “wills” (thelēmata), plural, of God."

Also, about Psalm 40, verses 6 and 7, and perhaps part of 8 are made refrence to in Hebrews chapter 10, in regards to Christ.

Maybe compare this also with Psalm 89 and verses 19 and 27 in particular.

And verse 6 and 27 here with Colossians 1:15-19.

Grace and peace,

Chris

Christinyou Apr 7, 2008

Acts 13:14-41 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience. The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it. And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness. And when he had destroyed seven nations in the land of Chanaan, he divided their land to them by lot. And after that he gave unto them judges about the space of four hundred and fifty years, until Samuel the prophet. And afterward they desired a king: and God gave unto them Saul the son of Cis, a man of the tribe of Benjamin, by the space of forty years. And when he had removed him, he raised up unto them David to be their king; to whom also he gave testimony, and said, I have found David the son of Jesse, a man after mine own heart, which shall fulfil all my will. Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus: When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel. And as John fulfilled his course, he said, Whom think ye that I am? I am not he. But, behold, there cometh one after me, whose shoes of his feet I am not worthy to loose. Men and brethren, children of the stock of Abraham, and whosoever among you feareth God, to you is the word of this salvation sent. For they that dwell at Jerusalem, and their rulers, because they knew him not, nor yet the voices of the prophets which are read every sabbath day, they have fulfilled them in condemning him. And though they found no cause of death in him, yet desired they Pilate that he should be slain. And when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him down from the tree, and laid him in a sepulchre. But God raised him from the dead: And he was seen many days of them which came up with him from Galilee to Jerusalem, who are his witnesses unto the people. And we declare unto you glad tidings, how that the promise which was made unto the fathers, God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee. And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David. Wherefore he saith also in another psalm, Thou shalt not suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. For David, after he had served his own generation by the will of God, fell on sleep, and was laid unto his fathers, and saw corruption: But he, whom God raised again, saw no corruption. Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses. Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets; Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

In This is the separation of The Christ in Paul and David. The Spiritual corruption in Paul is also suspended by the Christ in him as in us.

David saw corruption and Christ did see no corruption.

We must see the difference in the Corn of Wheat planted in the Ground. Christ planted and stating He would be alone unless He were planted, but praise God, He raised Jesus from the dead and the Seed no longer abides alone, but is producing much fruit and it is in those that are born again. We were planted with Him and we are resurrected with Him unto eternal Life in Christ Jesus. David could not accomplish this and never would, even if He had attained the Heart of God.

Our life and all that we are are in Christ and nothing in the old testament is for the believer in Christ Jesus the Head of the Church the Body of Christ, His bride.

Only 1/5 of the Scripture are for the Born Again believer in Christ and most of that was given to Paul to fulfill the Word of God.

The other 4/5 are for Israel and will still be accomplished for God's people Israel, not for the Bride of Christ.

If you don't rightly divide the scriptures, our salvation in Christ is done away with in still trying to keep the Law of the Commandments, which Christ is the only one that fulfilled them and the only one that ever will. This making those in Christ the fulfillment of God's Word in Christ Jesus our Lord and Savior and Life and all that we are and ever will be.

For it is in Him that our Glory stands.

Act 17:28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

Not in anything that David accomplished except by His Seed, which is Mary, in whom the Seed of God Gave Christ a living body prepared for Him by God. He is our only Life and let us seek Him and none of the OLD Testament, because there is no life in the OLD.

In Him is our life, that is the New, accomplished on the Cross and by the Father who killed Him just to get you and me and all that believe, that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, which none in the Old could see or believe, because it had not happened.

Don't commingle Old with New, the old wine skin will burst.

"I am made a minister" This is Paul bringing to the New the Christ in us position that no other prophet or Apostle had been given. God chose Paul from His mother's womb to bring this message which was hidden for all generation past, including David.

Even in this it is not Paul's working, it is Christ who works in all that the Father has given Him and us that are Born Again of the Spirit of Christ and the Water of Life which is only in Christ Jesus our Lord.

In Christ: Phillip

rookie Apr 8, 2008

Brother Chris wrote:

Also, about Psalm 40, verses 6 and 7, and perhaps part of 8 are made refrence to in Hebrews chapter 10, in regards to Christ.

The writer of Hebrews ascribed this testimony to Christ.

Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Likewise, David inspired by the Holy Spirit wrote these words...

Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,

We know that Christ was sinless and David's flesh is corrupt like ours. Paul teaches that no one can please God unless that person obey's the Holy Spirit.

Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded [is] death; but to be spiritually minded [is] life and peace.

Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

Rom 8:8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

We know that this precept, this law covers all generations, not just those of the new testatment.

Is this true?

In Christ
Jeff

rookie Apr 8, 2008

Brother Phillip quoted from Acts:

I will give you the sure mercies of David.

In Isaiah 55 we hear this...

Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, [even] the sure mercies of David.

Isa 55:4 Behold, I have given him [for] a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people

Who did God give the "sure mercies of David," too?

In Christ
Jeff

Christinyou Apr 8, 2008

Rookie wrote:

"""Brother Phillip quoted from Acts:

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I will give you the sure mercies of David.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In Isaiah 55 we hear this...

Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, [even] the sure mercies of David.

Isa 55:4 Behold, I have given him [for] a witness to the people, a leader and commander to the people

Who did God give the "sure mercies of David," too?"""

To Christ to give to us in the dispensation of Grace.

To those that would thirst for salvation.
When the Holy Spirit came, One of the Purposes in that Coming was to convict of sin. Then the Thirist.

This is what the Thirst is all about, thirsting in a dry desert for the Quenching of that thirst for salvation.

The rest is plainly clear that that thirst could only be quenched by the Savior to come, Jesus Christ. His Spirit born again in us and the quenching with Living water, as the woman at the well.

That is why Moses was so severely repremanded when he struck the rock in anger, instead of speaking to the rock as God gave order, for water to flow for all the people, that would come to the water.

David could not be born again or Spirit and Water because the giver of birth, the Seed of Christ had not been yet born and the Author of Birth could not put the sacrificed and risen Seed of the Lamb in the believer and birth that Seed in those that believe that He Jesus Christ was Son of God come to offer the kingdom to Israel, and not in the believer until The Holy Spirit came to seal us into Christ at Pentecost then convicting of sin and creating the thirst.

The leader and commander to the people is the shadow of Christ, presented as David. That is where the similarity ends, David could not touch the Glory that Christ received from the Cross and given us, the same Glory. "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

Keep trying and thirsting in a dry land, but this mystery could not be revealed until it was given to Paul. David had no Idea what this mystery was and could not partake of it until The Lamb was slain before the foundation of the World manifested at the Cross and then the Plan of God could be fulfilled in the dispensation of God given to Paul, fulfilling that thirst in Christ.

Mar 9:41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.

Ephesians 1:3-7 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

This was not to reconcile us to Israel but to God, in the dispensation of God Given to Paul to fulfill this Word of God in Eph 1:4.

Colossians 1:21-27 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

In Christ: Phillip

ChrisJD Apr 9, 2008

Hi Jeff,

"The writer of Hebrews ascribed this testimony to Christ.

Hbr 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

Likewise, David inspired by the Holy Spirit wrote these words...

Psa 40:7 Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book [it is] written of me,"

Jeff, do you mean that david wrote that, describing himself?

How could that be?

Why would David be ~~[b]~~coming[/b] to do anything, or was it ever ~~[b]~~written of him[/b] before hand that he should?

Wouldn't this rather be of Christ, who said the scriptures testified of Him?

David said "Blessed ~~[i]~~is he whose[/i] transgression ~~[i]~~is[/i] forgiven, ~~[i]~~whose[/i] sin ~~[i]~~is[/i] covered."

But the Lord Jesus said He always did those things that pleased His Father(John 8:29).

Chris

rookie Apr 9, 2008

Jeff, do you mean that david wrote that, describing himself?

Yes. David was testifying of what God has done in his life. He is testifying of the "sure mercies" of God and how God enabled him to love Him.

Everyone who read this Psalm believed what David wrote. Paul writes of the same understanding when he encourages the believers to follow him as he follows Christ.

Psa 40:1 PSALM 40
To the Chief Musician. A Psalm of David.
I WAITED patiently for the LORD;

And He inclined to me,
And heard my cry.
Psa 40:2 He also brought me up out of a horrible pit,
Out of the miry clay,
And set my feet upon a rock,
And established my steps.
Psa 40:3 He has put a new song in my mouth--
Praise to our God;
Many will see it and fear,
And will trust in the LORD.

Psa 40:4 Blessed is that man who makes the LORD his trust,
And does not respect the proud, nor such as turn aside to lies.
Psa 40:5 Many, O LORD my God, are Your wonderful works
Which You have done;
And Your thoughts toward us
Cannot be recounted to You in order;
If I would declare and speak of them,
They are more than can be numbered.

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering You did not desire;
My ears You have opened.
Burnt offering and sin offering You did not require.
Psa 40:7 Then I said, "Behold, I come;
In the scroll of the book it is written of me.
Psa 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O my God,
And Your law is within my heart."

Psa 40:9 I have proclaimed the good news of righteousness
In the great assembly;
Indeed, I do not restrain my lips,
O LORD, You Yourself know.
Psa 40:10 I have not hidden Your righteousness within my heart;
I have declared Your faithfulness and Your salvation;
I have not concealed Your lovingkindness and Your truth
From the great assembly.

Psa 40:11 Do not withhold Your tender mercies from me, O LORD;
Let Your lovingkindness and Your truth continually preserve me.
Psa 40:12 For innumerable evils have surrounded me;
My iniquities have overtaken me, so that I am not able to look up;
They are more than the hairs of my head;
Therefore my heart fails me.

Psa 40:13 Be pleased, O LORD, to deliver me;
O LORD, make haste to help me!
Psa 40:14 Let them be ashamed and brought to mutual confusion
Who seek to destroy my life;
Let them be driven backward and brought to dishonor
Who wish me evil.
Psa 40:15 Let them be confounded because of their shame,
Who say to me, "Aha, aha!"

Psa 40:16 Let all those who seek You rejoice and be glad in You;
Let such as love Your salvation say continually,
"The LORD be magnified!"
Psa 40:17 But I am poor and needy;
Yet the LORD thinks upon me.
You are my help and my deliverer;
Do not delay, O my God.

We know that the writer of Hebrews selected a portion of this Scripture to testify of Christ's life. David also did all these things which are recorded in the Scriptures.

We know that David and the writer of Hebrews were both inspired by the Holy Spirit to write this Scripture. The real question...what allows David to claim the same inheritance as Christ?

Now if one believes that the priest hood of Melchizedeck has always been, according to how we understand time, then we know that Christ has always ministered to those who are saved by God's "lovingkindness and truth" through faith. We then begin to see the preeminance of Christ throughtout time. We see that He was predestined to accomplish salvation in all who repent and hear.

Faith comes by the word of God...

Again listen to the words of David who was inspired by the Holy Spirit...

Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering You did not desire;
My ears You have opened.

Your brother in Christ
Jeff

rookie Apr 9, 2008

Brother Phillip wrote:

To Christ to give to us in the dispensation of Grace.

Yes this is true...

Have you ever considered what the Scriptures are describing when we hear these words...

Isa 55:3 Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, [even] the sure mercies of David.

What are the "sure mercies of David"? Where can we find Scripture which defines what God gave to David when David repeatedly testifies of God's "lovingkindness and truth"?

Your brother in Christ
Jeff

Christinyou Apr 9, 2008

Yes Jeff, my dear brother, I have considered the sure mercies of David, and they are of the seed of David, that is Christ, He is the sure mercy of David by David's seed, which is Mary, which brings the Seed of God, (which is Christ), which is: 1 Peter 1:18-25 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: (((((Being born again,))))) (((((not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word (Logos) of God,))))) (Himself) (added for context) which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

This Gospel is the Gospel of Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Colossians 1:4-8 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints, For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you, since the day ye heard of it, and knew the grace of God in truth: As ye also learned of Epaphras our dear fellowservant, who is for you a faithful minister of Christ; Who also declared unto us your love in the Spirit.

Hear it?

By Paul also, which is his personal Gospel given Him for us by Jesus Christ Himself which was not given until or before revealed to Paul.

Colossians 1:26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

In Christ: Phillip

ChrisJD Apr 9, 2008

Hi again Jeff,

"Yes. David was testifying of what God has done in his life."

But what do you mean Jeff, that God brought David into the world and wrote a book that testified of him? I don't think you mean that, but that is what is spoken of here...

"Then said I, Lo, I come: in the volume of the book it is written of me,"

Well, who is saying "Lo, I come" here then brother...

According to Hebrews 10:5 isn't it Christ...

"Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith..."

The he is Christ, brother.

To do what,

Verse 9 says in part

"...He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second."

To take away what,

In verse 1,

"For the law having a shadow of good things to come, ~~[i]~~and[/i] not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect."

How does he take it away,

Verse 5 again,

"...but a body hast thou prepared me:"

And verse 10,

"By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once ~~[i]~~for all[/i]."

"Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God."

~~[i]~~...in the volume of the book it is written of me[/i]

The Lord Jesus said that the scriptures testified of Him(John 5:39).

In Acts 10 it says of Him

"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins."

- Acts 10:43(KJV)