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Elohiym: Creator

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"In the beginning, Elohiym created the heaven and the earth...And God said, Let Us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creepeth on the earth." Gen 1:1,26.

"Through faith we understand that THE WORLDS WERE FRAMED BY THE WORD OF GOD, so that things which are seen, were not made of things which do appear." Heb 11:3.

"BY THE WORD OF THE LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth." Pr 33:6.

"Who hath ascendeth up into heaven, or descended? Who hath gathered the wind in His fists? Who hath bound the waters in a garment? Who hath established all the ends of the earth? What is His name, and what is His Son's name, if thou canst tell?" Pr 30:4.

"Thou even Thou, art Lord, alone; Thou hast made the heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and Thou perservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth Thee." Neh 9:6.

"He hath made the earth by His power, He hath established the world by His wisdom, and hath stretched out the heaven by His understanding. When He uttered His voice, there is a multitude of waters in the heavens; and He causeth the vapours to ascend from the ends of the earth: He maketh lightnings with rain, and bringeth forth the wind out of His treasures." Jer 51:15,16.

"He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing." Job 26:7.

"It is He that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are grasshoppers..." Isa 40:22.

"The sea is His and He made it: and His hands formed the dry land." Ps 95:5.

"He telleth the number of the stars; He calleth them ALL by their names." Ps 147:4.

"FOR ALL THE GODS OF THE NATIONS ARE IDOLS: but the Lord made the heavens." Ps 96:5.

"The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament showeth His handywork." Ps 19:1.

"Lord, Thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever Thou hast formed the earth and the world, EVEN FROM EVERLASTING TO EVERLASTING, THOU ART GOD." Ps 90:2.

"Praise ye the Lord. Praise ye the Lord from the heavens: Praise Him in the heights. Praise ye Him, all His angels, praise ye Him all His hosts. Praise ye Him, sun and moon: praise Him, all ye stars of light. Praise Him, ye heavens of heavens, and ye waters that be above the heavens. Let them praise the name of the Lord: FOR HE COMMANDED, AND THEY WERE CREATED." Ps 148.

"Ah, Lord God! Behold, Thou hast made the heaven and earth by Thy great power and stretched out arm, and THERE IS NOTHING TOO HARD FOR THEE." Jer 32:17.

"Can any hide himself in secret places, that, I shall not see him? Saith the Lord. Do not I fill heaven and earth? Saith the Lord." Jer 23:24.

To Job: "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or, Who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? Who laid the cornerstone threof, when the morning stars sang together? And all the sons of God shouted for joy? Or, Who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?" Job 38:4-8.

"Thus saith the Lord, the heaven is My throne, and the earth is My footstool: WHERE IS THE HOUSE THAT YE BUILD UNTO ME? AND WHERE IS THE PLACE OF MY REST?" Isa 66:1.

"Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. And God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it: BECAUSE that in it He had rested from all His work which God created and made." Gen 2:1-3.

My dearest brethren, let us honor the day, that, He sanctified and blessed. The day in which He rested from His great work of Creation. "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." Ex 20:8.

"And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having THE EVERLASTING GOSPEL to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred and tongue and people. Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to Him; FOR THE HOUR OF HIS JUDGMENT IS COME: AND WORSHIP HIM THAT MADE HEAVEN, AND EARTH, AND THE SEA, AND THE FOUNTAINS OF WATER." Rev 14:6,7.

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." 2 Pe 3:10.

"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." Isa 65:17.

"Even so, Come, Lord Jesus!" Rev 22:20.

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sojourner7

AWE-SOME!! AWE-SOME!! OUR GOD IS TRULY AWE-SOME!

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Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Christinyou

Amen and only one thing to add.

Has He Come?

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Is He in you?

Then He has come in flesh and that is our own new birth by the Christ that is born again in us.

"is come in flesh" is what the translation should read, the word "the" is not in the original, and because the translators did not know the In Christ position of being born again of the Father.

1Cr 13:10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

What is done away with?

What has been made whole?

Mat 14:36 And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment: and as many as touched were made perfectly whole.

Mar 5:34 And he said unto her, Daughter, thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace, and be whole of thy plague.

Mar 10:52 And Jesus said unto him, Go thy way; thy faith hath made thee whole. And immediately he received his sight, and followed Jesus in the way.

Luk 8:48 And he said unto her, Daughter, be of good comfort: thy faith hath made thee whole; go in peace.

Luk 17:19 And he said unto him, Arise, go thy way: thy faith hath made thee whole.

Jhn 5:11 He answered them, He that made me whole, the same said unto me, Take up thy bed, and walk.

Jhn 5:15 The man departed, and told the Jews that it was Jesus, which had made him whole.

Jhn 7:23 If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I have made a man every whit whole on the sabbath day?

Who's Faith was imparted that they might be made whole?

Galatians 2:14-21 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Christ is come in this world and is the first born among many, I being one of them, and I rejoice in God my Savior, that He has wrought in me His whole Plan Before the foundation of the World. That Christ is in us reconciling the world to God the Father. We have the ministry of reconciliation Himself in these earthen vessels and "as He is in this world so are we".

It is Christ who has, is and will do it all in us if we only believe that the Christ in you is the only Hope of any Glory of any person in this world.

2 Corinthians 4:5-18 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh. So then death worketh in us, but life in you. We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; Knowing that he which raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also by Jesus, and shall present us with you. For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God. For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day. For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory; While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Is He in you? Not just words, but a true reality of God's perfect plan which He made before we were ever created.

Ephesians 1:3-13 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise.

This is the mystery that was given to Paul first and He gave it to us, even by Jesus Christ Himself to fulfill the Word of God.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

In Christ: Wow, what a statement: In Christ:

Phillip


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"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law." Rom 3:31.

Rom 16:26 refers to "the obedience of faith."

The fourth commandment is not a request.

When Jesus gave us the "Two greatest commandments" He was quoting the law. Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18.

Thse two are a summation of The Ten:
If you love the Lord, supremely, you will not bow down to or worship other gods, take His name in vain, or, profane His holy day.

If you love your neighbour as yourself, you will honor your parents, do no murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness or covet."

The Apostle John wrote, "By this we know that we love the children of God (G.C. #2), when we love God (#1) and keep His commandments. 1 John 5:2,3.

"He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar and the Truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." 1 John 2:4,5.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put My Spirit within you, and CAUSE YOU to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them." Ezek 36:26,27.

In Psalm 119 the word, "word," is used, interchangeably,with "precepts," "law," "statutes," "testimonies," "judgments."

His Word = His law.

He enables us, by His Holy Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29) to walk In His Spirit and fulfill His law.
The Holy Spirit will never lead us into sin, or, "the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

"As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions (of the law) from us...To such as KEEP HIS COVENANT and TO THOSE THAT REMEMBER HIS COMMANDMENTS TO DO THEM." Ps 103. Covenants have conditions.

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15.

"And THIS IS LOVE, that we walk after His commandments." 2 John 6.

At the very end of the Book of all Books, the Apostle John makes a connection, between keeping His commandments and entering Heaven:

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

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Christinyou

Psalms 119:44 So shall I keep thy law continually for ever and ever .

Strong's Hebrew Dictionary
8451. towrah
Search for H8451 in KJVSL
hrwt towrah to-raw'
or torah {to-raw'}; from 3384; a precept or statute, especially the Decalogue or Pentateuch:--law.

This is the Law of God for Israel, containing all the ordinances and statutes.

Did they work?

Absolutely not.

We are saved by Grace through Faith, not works.

Exd 18:20 And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do.

None could keep it.

And now you want to bring the Law and the commandments into Grace and destroy both.

No man can keep the Law, God proved it for hundreds of years as Israel could not love God as He wanted. The only One that could love Him and keep the Law perfect was He Himself in the life of His Son who was the very nature and essence and power of God's perfection and the only one that could keep the Law Perfect.

Even if the Law is kept perfect by a created being it has no life in it and is dead works to God.

Eze 43:11 And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write [it] in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them

Did they do them? Can we do them? No!

Mal 3:7 Even from the days of your fathers ye are gone away from mine ordinances, and have not kept [them]. Return unto me, and I will return unto you, saith the LORD of hosts. But ye said, Wherein shall we return?

Did they return?

No, but we do because of Christ and God making us new creatures.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

This is what new creation, born again Christians are to do in the New Commandment of Love that Christ has given us. Taking away the Law and commandments and imparting a new rule in the Church the Body of Christ. A New Commandment I give you.

Galatians 6:11-18 Ye see how large a letter I have written unto you with mine own hand. As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ. For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh. But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God. From henceforth let no man trouble me: for I bear in my body the marks of the Lord Jesus. Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.

Not the Israel of Old, for who is the True Israel of Christ?

Galatians 6:15-16 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature. And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Ephesians 2:1-22 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

There is no Sabbath Day for those born again in Christ, for He is our Sabbath, and we worship Him in word and truth, by He that is in us, Daily we attend to Him, in love and deeds wrought by The Christ that is in us, for He is our strength and we can do nothing without Him, but in Christ we can do all things including making the Sabbath a true Sabbath everyday in Him.

In Christ: Phillip

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QUOTE: [i]When Jesus gave us the "Two greatest commandments" He was quoting the law. Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18.

Thse two are a summation of The Ten:
If you love the Lord, supremely, you will not bow down to or worship other gods, take His name in vain, or, profane His holy day.

If you love your neighbour as yourself, you will honor your parents, do no murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness or covet."

The Apostle John wrote, "By this we know that we love the children of God (G.C. #2), when we love God (#1) and keep His commandments. 1 John 5:2,3.

"He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar and the Truth is not in him. But whoso keepeth His Word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him." 1 John 2:4,5.

"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put My Spirit within you, and CAUSE YOU to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them." Ezek 36:26,27.

In Psalm 119 the word, "word," is used, interchangeably,with "precepts," "law," "statutes," "testimonies," "judgments."

His Word = His law.

He enables us, by His Holy Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29) to walk In His Spirit and fulfill His law.
The Holy Spirit will never lead us into sin, or, "the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

"As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions (of the law) from us...To such as KEEP HIS COVENANT and TO THOSE THAT REMEMBER HIS COMMANDMENTS TO DO THEM." Ps 103. Covenants have conditions.

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15.

"And THIS IS LOVE, that we walk after His commandments." 2 John 6.

At the very end of the Book of all Books, the Apostle John makes a connection, between keeping His commandments and entering Heaven:

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.[/i]

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[b]I am rejoicing that our Father is restoring the truth of HIS Word in our day!
Blessings,
Stephen[/b]

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As I stated, when He puts His Spirit within us, He enables us to keep His Word. Ezek 36:26,27.

"What shall we say then? SHALL WE CONTINUE IN SIN, ("the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4), that grace may abound? God FORBID. How shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Rom 6:1.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me, and gave Himself for me." Ga 2:20.

The old man of sin was crucified with Christ, so that we may walk in newness of life. The Holy Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29) will never lead us into sin, or, "the transgression of the law." To say, so would be blasphemous.

Jesus prophesied the Sabbath, still, being kept during The Great Tribulation, and we are not there, yet.

Isaiah prophesied, "For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before Me, saith the Lord, so shall your seed and your name remain. AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS, that from one new moon to another, and from one Sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before Me, saith the Lord." Isa 66:22,23.

So, are we to, only, obey nine commandments, and choose not to obey one? Then, who is acting as Lord?

One of the marks of The Antichrist is, "...he thinks to change times and laws." Dan 7:25.

It was The RCC that changed the Sabbath to "The Lord's Day," which is what Sunday is called in sun worship,common in the Roman Empire.

Rome says, "Question.-Have you any other way of proving that the church has power to institute festivals of precept?"

"Answer.-Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her, - she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, A CHANGE FOR WHICH THERE IS NO SCRIPTURAL AUTHORITY." - Rev. Stepehn Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, p. 174.

Rome says, "Of course the Catholic Church claims the change was her act...and the act is a MARK of her ecclesiastical power and authority in religious matters." Thomas, H.F., Chancellor of Cardinal Gibbons, in answer to a letter regarding the change of the Sabbath.

Again, Rome says, "It's (Sunday's change for Saturday) the MARK of our authority to OVER-RULE God's law." Father Enright, C.S.S.R., President of Redemptorist College, History of the Sabbath, p. 802.

"Sunday is our MARK of authority...The Church is ABOVE THE BIBLE, and this transference of Sabbath observance is proof of that fact." The Catholic Record, Sept. 1, 1923.

"The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, 'No! by my DIVINE power, I ABOLISH THE SABBBATH DAY, and COMMAND YOU to keep holy the first day of the week. And, lo! The entire civilized world BOWS DOWN in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church." Father Enright.

(Emphasis added)

Pope John Paul 11, Pat Robertson, and Jerry Falwell have called for re-instituting the Sunday, or "Blue Laws." They are, still, on the books in 26 states. In Virginia, the third infraction was death!

Just as in the garden with the tree, it is a question of allegiance. Is your allegiance to the "Mother of harlots"(the apostate religious system of Rev 17) or, to the Word of God?

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15.

He is, only, Lord, to those who obey His Word.

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sscr01

Amen, Strider!

C
Christinyou

Please go to the next post, edited for content.

Sorry I hit the wrong button prematurely.

Matt 9:34
34 But the Pharisees said, "It is by the prince of demons that he drives out demons."

Mark 2:24
24 The Pharisees said to him, "Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"

John 9:16-17
16 Some of the Pharisees said, "This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath."
But others asked, "How can a sinner do such miraculous signs?" So they were divided.
17 Finally they turned again to the blind man, "What have you to say about him? It was your eyes he opened."

John 12:19
19 So the Pharisees said to one another, "See, this is getting us nowhere. Look how the whole world has gone after him!"

Matt 9:11
11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"

Matt 12:14
14 But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.

This is Christ Jesus doing these things and having doubt and plotting to kill Him. How can we use the Sabbath as they did and say we are keeping the Law of God which was earthly and having the heavenly Law Himself in us and not make The Lord of the Sabbath our Sabbath every day, not just the seventh day Sabbath.

I for one will enter His rest every morning and night and while sleeping. Hbr 4:10 For he that is entered into His rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from His.

Making Christ our rest and our Sabbath. I have ceased from my own works of keeping a Sabbath day and made the Sabbath Himself my Rest.

This is the peace of God in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:14-22 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Who is the Holy Temple, Who abides in it, are we not the Holy Temple, wherein the Sabbath was observed. We are the habitation of God through the Spirit, For the Sabbath was made for Man, that is Christ In you the Hope of Glory.

Also what have we been made by God? 1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Is keeping the seventh day Sabbath our righteousness?

Or, is the Sabbath Himself our righteousness and our Glory in Him. For He is, our rest, our peace, our all in all.

In Sabbath of Christ in you: Phillip

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Christinyou

Matt 9:34
34 But the Pharisees said, "It is by the prince of demons that he drives out demons."

Mark 2:24
24 The Pharisees said to him, "Look, why are they doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"

John 9:16-17
16 Some of the Pharisees said, "This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath."
But others asked, "How can a sinner do such miraculous signs?" So they were divided.
17 Finally they turned again to the blind man, "What have you to say about him? It was your eyes he opened."

John 12:19
19 So the Pharisees said to one another, "See, this is getting us nowhere. Look how the whole world has gone after him!"

Matt 9:11
11 When the Pharisees saw this, they asked his disciples, "Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and 'sinners'?"

Matt 12:14
14 But the Pharisees went out and plotted how they might kill Jesus.

This is Christ Jesus doing these things and having the Sabbath keepers doubt and plotting to kill Him. How can we use the Sabbath as they did and say we are keeping the Law of God which was earthly and having the heavenly Law Himself in us and not make The Lord of the Sabbath our Sabbath every day, not just the seventh day Sabbath.

I for one will enter His rest every morning and night and while sleeping. Hbr 4:10 For he that is entered into His rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God [did] from His.

Making Christ our rest and our Sabbath. I have ceased from my own works of keeping a Sabbath day and made the Sabbath Himself my Rest.

I will not forsake the assembling of the body of Christ, His Church.

Hbr 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some [is]; but exhorting [one another]: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.


This is the peace of God in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:14-22 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Who is the Holy Temple, Who abides in it, are we not the Holy Temple, wherein the Sabbath was observed. We are the habitation of God through the Spirit, For the Sabbath was made for Man, that is Christ In you the Hope of Glory.

Also what have we been made by God? 1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Is keeping the seventh day Sabbath our righteousness?

Or, is the Sabbath Himself our righteousness and our Glory in Him. For He is, our rest, our peace, our all in all.

In Sabbath of Christ in you: Phillip

S
sscr01

The Pharisees added hundreds of rules and regulations to the keeping of the Sabbath. Jesus honored the Father's commandments, only.

There is a difference between the ceremonial law and the Ten Commandments:

The ceremonial law was fulfilled in the sacrifice of Jesus:

1. Is called, "the law contained in ordinances." Eph 2:15.
2. Was spoken by Moses. Lev 1:1-3
3. Was written by Moses in a book. 11 Chron 35:12
4. Was placed in the side of The Ark. Deut 31:24-26
5. Was nailed to the cross. Col 2:14
6. Was abolished by Christ. Eph 2;15

Ten Commandments:
1. Is called, the "royal law." Ja 2:8
2. Was spoken by God. Deut 4:12,13.
3. Was written with the finger of God. Ex 31:8
4. Was placed inside The Ark. Ex 40:20; Heb 9:4
5. Is to "stand forever and ever." Ps 111:7,8
6. Was not destroyed by Christ. Mt 5:17,18.

The Ten Commandments are His moral law and endure forever.

Sunday was called, "The Lord's day" in sun worship,common in the Roman Empire. Jesus referred to Himself, as the "Lord of the Sabbath." Mt 12:8;Mk 2:28;Lu 6:5.

I will post on what the different denominations say on the Sabbath. It was never changed by God, but, by the Catholic Church.

Where does it say in the Scripture, that, Christ is our Sabbath? It doesn't.

C
Christinyou

Colossians 2:13-16 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Are these ordinances including the Sabbath days.

"""you said, "There is a difference between the ceremonial law and the Ten Commandments:"

Then why do only 2 of the commandments contain all the Law. Unless all does not me all, I would assume that ceremonial Law and Ten Commandment Law are all One, both give to Moses as to Israel being a nation to God and a chosen people.

This is most certainly not the Body of Christ the Church. In Christ blotting out the Law, I would assume that means the Sabbath also. He becoming our rest as God did rest from His works and making the Seventh Day Sabbath a day of Rest. Christ now being our rest makes Him our Sabbath.

Are we to enter or not?

Hebrews 4:1-8 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it. For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest. Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief: Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

There was no rest in the Sabbath except for the flesh. There is spiritual and flesh mortal quickened body rest in the true Sabbath which is Christ in you the hope of Glory.

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

In Christ: Phillip

S
sscr01

The ceremonial law was fulfilled in the sacrifice of Jesus:

Passover: He was our Passover Lamb
Unleavened Bread: He was without sin
Tabernacles: He "tabernacled among us"

Washings, are now baptism. Circumcision is now of the heart. The veil was rent. We now have access into the Holy of Holies.

If the ceremonial law was not fulfilled, you should be sacrificing animals.

The Ten Commandments are His Covenant with man. Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10 says, that, He will write them in our hearts and minds.

Jesus amplified the Ten. He said, that, if a man looks upon a woman to lust, he has, already, committed adultery with her in his heart.

James 2:10,11 says, that, if we break one, we become transgressors of the law. If the commandments had become obsolete, why did Jesus refer to them?

Why did Jesus refer to the Sabbath, still, being kept during The Great Tribulation? Mt 24:20.

Even in heaven, the Lord makes quite a statement about The Ark:

"And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple The Ark of His Testament: and there were LIGHTNINGS, and VOICES, and THUNDERINGS, and AN EARTHQUAKE, and GREAT HAIL." Rev 11:19.

With all due respect, who are you to decide which commandments to keep and which not to keep?

When Moses disobeyed the Lord, God charged him with unbelief. Num 20:12. When the children of Israel disobeyed, they were not able to enter the Promised Land, because of unbelief. Heb 3:19. Jesus did not do many works in Nazareth, because of their unbelief. Mt 13:58. Unbelief comes out of an EVIL heart. Heb 3:12.

"...he that believeth not God, hath made Him a liar..." 1 John 5:10.

Rom 16:26 refers to "the obedience of faith."

If you are not obedient to His Word, then, you are in unbelief.

C
Christinyou

Quote:

"With all due respect, who are you to decide which commandments to keep and which not to keep?"

Without Christ I could keep none of them, especially all the time, that being what our righteousness God demands. And still no life in the Law.

With Christ They are fulfilled in me. And I am alive in Christ unto the Father.

Even the rich young ruler said He kept them and Paul said He kept them but there was no life in them.

Matthew 19:21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

This is what trusting in the flesh was to Paul, "dung".

Philippians 3:4-10 Though I might also have confidence in the flesh. If any other man thinketh that he hath whereof he might trust in the flesh, I more: Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee; Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

The Law makes one righteous, if you keep it all.
But, still no life in the Law.

Rom 10:5 For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

If you keep the 10 commandment, will you make to heaven and the Father's house.

Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, [it is] evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Also judged by the law:

Rom 2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

The only law I want to keep is this:

Jam 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

Jhn 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I take heed and try not to offend any brother in the perfect law of liberty.

1Cr 8:9 But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak.

1Cr 10:29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another [man's] conscience?

2Cr 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord [is], there [is] liberty.

Gal 2:4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage:
Under the Law and back into circumcission.

Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
The Law and circumcission.

I don't want to be in bondage to any Law, except the Law of Love in Christ Jesus our new and only Commandment. I will keep His commandment by His Love that is in me, my Savior, my Life, my all in all.

Galatians 5:1-4 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

I will not fall from Grace. I will not be justified by the Law, for I am justified by Christs righteous that is in me.

1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

He is our Glory, He that is in us and He is our only Hope.

Colossians 1:27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

Keep the Law, but make sure you don't break any jot Or tittle or it will Judge you and kill you.

Rom 8:1 [There is] therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.


In Christ: Phillip

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sscr01

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin ("the transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4) that grace may abound? GOD FORBID. How shall we that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?" Rom 6:1.

Elohiym, the Triune God instituted the seventh day Sabbath. He never changed,or, abolished it. The children of Israel, Jesus, His disciples and the New Testament Christians kept the Sabbath.

Jesus prophesied the Sabbath being kept during The Great Tribulation. Mt 24:20. Isaiah prophesied the Sabbath being kept in His Kingdom. Isa 66:22,23.

The Lord never changed the Sabbath - the Catholic Church did.

R
rowdy2

The Ten Commandments

I want to go on record as to my love for the Ten Commandments

The world is under The Ten Commandments and they are the fabric of civilization.

If the Ten Commandments were completely lost to the world, humanity would devour each other.

sscr01 wrote

"For behold, I create new heavens and a new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind." Isa 65:17.

"Even so, Come, Lord Jesus!" Rev 22:20. -End quote


Praise God for The Light.

Matthew 5 KJV
14. Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
17. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
19. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

When Jesus came into my heart all things became possiable through Him.

Eddie

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sscr01

Amen...

"A NEW HEART also will I give you, and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

And I will put MY SPIRIT within you and CAUSE YOU to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them." Ezek 36:26,27.

As I said, before, in Psalm 119, the word, "Word," is used, interchangeably, with "statutes." "precepts," "law," "judgments,"testimonies," "commandments"...

His Word is His law.

He enables us by His Holy Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29) to walk with Him in holiness. And that is what "walking in the Spirit" is all about.

The Holy Spirit would never lead us into sin, or, "the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Ga 2:20.

Paul told Timothy: "I thank God, whom I serve from my forefathers WITH PURE CONSCIENCE..." 2 Tim 1:3.

That, is the closest, that, we will ever get to perfection in this mortality.

Jesus said, "He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My Words, hath one that judgeth him: the Word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48.

I want Him to say, "Well done, thou good and faithful servant." Mt 25:21.

Don't you?

R
rowdy2

Repy to sscr01

I sure do.

Eddie

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PaulWest

What a horrible, woeful, fatal burden to place on the back of a converted babe Christian...to threaten him or her with lawlesness and incuring God's displeasure if they do not ritually observe the Jewish sabbath. The believer did not observe the Jewish Sabbath before he or she was converted, and now, being converted you would shackle them back under curse of the law, a burdened, physical obligation, full of fear and strivings of the flesh to please God from it, with all the do's and don't's and touch not's and taste not's attached.

Babes in Christ need to immediately understand that the old man has been crucified with Christ, any faculty of the flesh that would endeavor to appease God through determined willpower and resolution - the old man in Adam that would strive to keep the sabbath under the fear of falling short and angering God - this old man has been killed, he is dead with Christ, slain on the cross, and we must present ourselves to God as such. We need to come the revelation that God is irrrevocably finished with our old man nature, and now we must reckon ourselves dead in Christ and alive unto God, that we can merit no pleasure at all in terms of physical sabbath keeping in the flesh; God is only interested in Christ being formed in us and Christ living [i]His[/i] resurrected life through us as we learn by faith to walk in the Spirit. Brethren, God forbid we should labor by resolution to maintain a Jewish ritual and teach others to do so as to somehow appease God by fulfilling a requirement He would have us maintain in the flesh.

This teaching is not only wrong, it is dangerous and destructive, and Paul the Apostle withstood it all his days as well. It was the converted Pharisees teaching of the need for circumcision in the book of Galatians, and here in some threads it is becoming the letter of the law of the Sabbath.

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rowdy2

Reply to Paulwest
Its good work your doing. Keep at it but every now and again stop and praise God for His work.

Hebrews 6

1. Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2. Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3. And this will we do, if God permit.
4. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5. And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6. If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7. For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8. But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.


Eddie

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rowdy2

Reply to Paulwest

There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man.

If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.

And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.

And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him.

Because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats? And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders,
Thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within, and defile the man. KJV

There is not one comandment of God you can't keep if you are born again and wanted to.

Eddie

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sscr01

Keeping His commandments is not optional and it isn't a burden for those who have His commandments engraved upon their hearts.Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10

Here is a great promise: "If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on MY HOLY DAY: and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour Him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." Isa 58:13,14.

So, you are saying, that keeping all of His commandments, is a burden?

Not to those who love Him and want to honor His Word.

I follow the example of Jesus. He worshipped His Father and met human need.

Jesus said, "If ye love Me,keep My commandments." John 14:15.

Jesus never said, that, He was the Lord of Sunday. He referred to Himself as the "Lord of the Sabbath." Mt 12:8;Mk 2:28;Lu 6:5.

Elohiym sanctified and blessed the seventh day Sabbath. He never sanctified and blessed Sunday, called, "The Lord's Day," in sun worship, common in the Roman Empire.

The Apostle John wrote, "And hereby we do know that we know Him, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.

He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not His commandments, is a LIAR, and the Truth is not in Him." 1 John 2:3,4.

Again, the Apostle John makes a connection between keeping His commandments and entering Heaven:
"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

He is, only, Lord, to those who obey Him.

B
BlazedbyGod


sscr01 wrote:
Keeping His commandments is not optional and it isn't a burden for those who have His commandments engraved upon their hearts.Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10

Here is a great promise: "If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on MY HOLY DAY: and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the Lord, honourable; and shalt honour Him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

Then shalt thou delight thyself in the Lord; and I will cause thee to ride upon the high places of the earth, and feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it." Isa 58:13,14.

So, you are saying, that keeping all of His commandments, is a burden?

Not to those who love Him and want to honor His Word.

I follow the example of Jesus. He worshipped His Father and met human need.

Jesus said, "If ye love Me,keep My commandments." John 14:15.

Jesus never said, that, He was the Lord of Sunday. He referred to Himself as the "Lord of the Sabbath." Mt 12:8;Mk 2:28;Lu 6:5.

Elohiym sanctified and blessed the seventh day Sabbath. He never sanctified and blessed Sunday, called, "The Lord's Day," in sun worship, common in the Roman Empire.

The Apostle John wrote, "And hereby we do know that we know Him, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANDMENTS.

He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not His commandments, is a LIAR, and the Truth is not in Him." 1 John 2:3,4.

Again, the Apostle John makes a connection between keeping His commandments and entering Heaven:
"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

He is, only, Lord, to those who obey Him.

If I had ten thousand tongues....I could not say AMEN enough to that!

Psalm 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for [b]all thy commandments are righteousness[/b].

ALL His Commandments ARE RIGHTEOUSNES!!

P
PaulWest

So, you are saying, that keeping all of His commandments, is a burden?

Not only is it a burden, it is impossible in the flesh - and God Himself knew we could never keep the commandments - even after our Christian conversions - without first coming to a spiritual understanding of the ramifications of our death, burial and resurrection of new life in Christ. God graciously slew our Sabbath-keeping-in-the-flesh Adamic, old men with Christ 2000 years ago. The problem is, we won't reckon ourselves dead; instead we still try to [i]live[/i] for God by obeying stringent laws and continuing to observe certain things under pain of God's displeasure if we fall short. Such things are not intended to be resolved [i]in the flesh[/i] by His born-again children, for this cancels out grace and annuls the efficacy of our total sufficiency in Christ. You who keep stressing "obey the commandments, obey the commandments" - you don't even keep the commandments yourselves; you simply pick and choose which ones are expedient, and you see failure after failure in your own lives, defeat after defeat, yet you would place these insurmountable burdens upon younger believers here so you might glory in their flesh. From where do we have the "be sure to obey and observe the Sabbath or you'll upset God" dictate? Is it not from belivers still walking in the flesh, still carefully striving to accomplish a feat in the flesh under the pain of failure? All the commandments for us are fulfilled in Christ, Who now abides within us by faith. We are hid in Christ, and Christ is the fulfillment. When we walk in the Spirit of Christ, we fulfill all the commandments, because the Spirit in which we walk is the Spirit of Christ.

It's not a matter of [i]doing[/i] anything or observing a particular day according to the Jewish ritual which was a shadow of things to come, but a reckoning ourselves who are dead and now raised to life in Him, and presenting our vessels to God daily in the newness of this glorious life in Christ by faith. The Lord of the Sabbath lives in us, for those who have entered into His rest, everyday is worshipful and consecrated and a glorious new beginning. If you esteem one day above another, this is fine, but when you begin to publically impress your teachings on others as a [i]must[/i], intervention is needed to prevent the subversion of younger minds.

S
sscr01

Again, He said, "A NEW HEART also will I give you and A NEW SPIRIT will I put within you...And I will put MY SPIRIT within you, and CAUSE YOU to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep My judgments and do them." Ezek 36:26,27.

Again, In Psalm 119, the word, "word," is used interchangeably, with "law,"precepts,"statutes,"testimonies,"commandments."

His Word = His law.

When He gives us His Spirit, He enables us by His Spirit of Grace (Heb 10:29)to obey His Word. When we yield to Him, we walk in His Spirit.

So, when you walk in His Spirit to you keep the Sabbath holy?

The Ten Commandments are not Jewish ritual, they are God's Covenant with man.

Do you, really, think, that, when we walk in His Spirit, we will sin, or, transgress His law? 1 John 3:4.

There are millions of people, that, keep the Sabbath holy, out of obedience to Him.

And down throughout history, many paid for it by being martyred.

Just as in the garden with the tree, it is a question of allegiance.

Is our allegiance to the "Mother of harlots"(Rev 17) - the apostate Catholic/Protestant religious system, or, to the Word of our Creator?

The fourth commandment is not optional.

P
PaulWest

There are millions of people, that, keep the Sabbath holy, out of obedience to Him.

May I ask what "keeping the Sabbath holy" entails for us today, and what what we must [i]do[/i] in the flesh to maintain its holiness (in fear of disobeying God)?

S
sscr01

I worshipped on Sunday for decades, until, I heard the Sabbath taught from Genesis-Revelation. Then, I knew, that, it was obey or disobey. I chose to obey His Word.

The Jews added hundreds of rules and regulations to the keeping of the Sabbath - tradition.

I follow the example of Jesus, who fulfilled the law. He worshipped the Father and met human need.

One of my ministries is sharing the Gospel in a rest home.I am, also, in scores of forums, teaching the Word of God, while, we still can.

S
sermonindex

quote: [i]"Not only is it a burden, it is impossible in the flesh - and God Himself knew we could never keep the commandments"[/i]

The teaching that God Himself knew we could never keep the commandments is very common, but also unbiblical.

God Himself says in Deuteronomy 30:11-15: [b]"[u]For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not too hard for thee[/u], neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say: 'Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?' Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say: 'Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, and make us to hear it, that we may do it?' But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. See I set before you this day life and good, death and evil"[/b]

Let us be careful to not "relax one of the least of these commandments, and teach men so", as our Messiah instructed us.

His ways are a joy, when He has written them on our heart and mind-----not a burden! He causes us (by His Spirit), to walk in them, not reject them.

Choose life!
Stephen

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sscr01

Amen...When Christians quote Psalm 103, they don't finish it:

As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions (of the law: 1 John 3:4) from us...TO SUCH AS KEEP HIS COVENANT, and TO THOSE THAT REMEMBER HIS COMMANDMENTS to do them."

All Covenants have conditions.

Rom 16:26 refers to "the obedience of faith." How can we tell, that, we have faith, if we are not obedient?

"By faith Abraham...obeyed." Heb 11:8.

"Was not Abraham our father, JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

Seest thou how faith wrought WITH HIS WORKS and BY WORKS WAS FAITH MADE PERFECT?

And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness: and he was called the friend of God." Ja 2.

We demonstrate our faith by our obedience to His Word.

P
PaulWest

The teaching that God Himself knew we could never keep the commandments is very common, but also unbiblical.

Is it unbiblical? The law instituted was made to bring us to Christ, and not so that we would continue to strive to keep the commandments ourselves. The commandments bring death and an awareness of sin to all who strive to keep them. Consider Jesus' shattering expansion of the commandments into the realm of the heart. Failure of the 7th by secret lust! Failure of the 6th by hatred! Failure not by the physical aspect of adultery and murder, but by the secret, hidden, spiritual contrivances of the heart. Who here can say they have without burden and full of joy kept all the commandments, honestly, before God "who knoweth the secrets of the heart" (Psalm 44:21), and still remain blameless in His light? This was God's purpose. The scripture you cite from Deuteronomy 30 is incomplete without citing the preceding verse as well:

"If thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the Lord thy God to keep His [i]commandments[/i] and his statues which are written in the book of the [i]law[/i]..."

You failed to mention that the commandments are all part of a greater, unified whole, called the [i]law[/i]. Violating one commandment causes all of them to fall upon you like a guilty train of dominoes. The law was inscribed on the heart of man to bring a personal awareness of sin when trangessed, to bring a pricking of the conscience when broken for the ultimate purpose of driving the guilty sinner to God for redemption through blood sacrifice. This was determined even before the law was given, before Abraham and sabbath observance instituted - the precious Lamb of God was already slain.

No, my friend, it is unbiblical to say God expects man to keep the commandments independant of the indwelling, enpowering grace of the New Covenant.

Until you can see yourself as worm of the dust, unable to do anything but fail and grieve the Spirit, God's grace and power cannot work in you. As long as you refuse to surrender and reckon yourself dead to your commandment-fulfilling abilities, mortify your flesh by the Spirit and say, "Lord, I [i]cannot[/i] keep Thy commandments. Please, Lord, live Thine own commandment-fulfilling life through me," you will be defeated and blinded, preaching and teaching from a false premise and leading everyone astray who listens to you. If we have an improper understanding of grace, we will strive to keep the commandments even in our Christian walk..and this, also, will inevitably end up in failure, defeat, and depression. You know what I am talking about, because you have failed also, many times, and still do despite all your striving. You experience this perpetual cycle: a period of victory, followed by a crushing defeat, another victory, followed another defeat. The harder you try to keep the commandments, the harder you fall. This is not true New Testament Christianity; this is the Old Testament [i]trying[/i] to obey the commandments out of a sense of compulsion to not disobey God in the flesh and simultaneously trying to hold onto your salvation in Christ.

Which brings us back full-round to the false doctrine that Christians [i]must[/i] keep the physical Sabbath in the flesh under fear of disobeying God.

S
sscr01

He wouldn't give us commandments to obey, if we could not. Again, He gives us the power to obey His Word.

The children of Israel said, that, they could keep His Covenant in their own strength, but failed. Ex 24:7. Under the New Covenant, the Lord engraves His Covenant in our hearts and minds. Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:10. Then He puts His Spirit within us and enables us to keep His Word.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: yea, we establish the law." Rom 3:31.

When we transgress the law, or, sin, the Holy Spirit convicts us, we repent, and are changed into His image. This is what sanctification is all about.

Paul told Timothy, that, he served God with a pure conscience.2 Tim 1:3. That, is what walking in the Spirit is all about.

None of the Ten Commandments are optional.

M
Miccah

It really gets tiring listening to the same old rhetoric from those who wish to impose flesh on the spirit.

For any Christian reading what the bondage folks are saying, throw it where it needs to go, in the trash.

To all who wish to keep Christians in bondage. May the Lord have mercy on your souls.

S
sscr01

So,you believe, that, you can bow down to and worship other gods, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonor you parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness and covet and walk with Him in holiness?

When did the Ten Commandments become optional?

M
Miccah


sscr01 wrote:



So,you believe, that, you can bow down to and worship other gods, take His name in vain, profane His holy day, dishonor you parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness and covet and walk with Him in holiness?


This is what I believe. I believe that you speak as a false prophet on this subject and will need to answer to the Lord on that day, with much fear and trembling.

S
sscr01

I quote the Word of God.

If you feared Him, you would obey His Word.

Jesus said, "He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My Words, hath one that judgeth him: the Word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48.

L
LoveHim

[b]1 timothy 1:8-11[/b]
8We know that the law is good [b]if one uses it properly[/b]. 9We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

the word shows us that the law was not made for the righteous man, but for the unrighteous. why?? to show us our sin that we might turn to Christ.

[b]galatians 3:24-25[/b]
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

[b]galatians 3:2-4[/b]
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

[b]romans 4:1-16[/b]
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “ Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

[b]galatians 2:21[/b]
21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

phil

M
Miccah

sscr01 wrote:



I quote the Word of God.

If you feared Him, you would obey His Word.

Jesus said, "He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My Words, hath one that judgeth him: the Word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day." John 12:48.


Your words are filled with deceit. You come to fill believers with fear and trembling without authority of the Holy Spirit. You teach unsound doctrine. You have rejected Christ.

I do not fear your rebuke, your words or you, but only the Holy One, The Rightous Judge, Jesus Christ, whom I worship and who breaks the chains that pull us down.

I stand before God, crucified with Christ.

Let Your fire burn, consuming me, Lord Jesus.

B
BlazedbyGod

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth. 6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in [b]"ALL" the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.[/b]

Looks like Zachariah and Elizabeth were righteous by walking in ALL the commandments of God-this would include ALL 10 wouldn't it?

Numbers 15:39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring: 40 [b]That ye may remember, and DO ALL MY COMMANDMENTS, AND BE HOLY unto your God[/b]. 41 I am the LORD your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the LORD your God.

What came first, be holy, or "remember AND DO ALL my commandments"? God did tell them to "DO ALL my commandments"?

Deut 5: 26 For who is there of all flesh, that hath heard the voice of the living God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as we have, and lived? 27 Go thou near, and hear all that the LORD our God shall say: and speak thou unto us all that the LORD our God shall speak unto thee; and we will hear it, and do it. 28 And the LORD heard the voice of your words, when ye spake unto me; and the LORD said unto me, I have heard the voice of the words of this people, which they have spoken unto thee: they have well said all that they have spoken. 29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, [b]and KEEP ALL MY COMMANDMENTS ALWAYS[/b], that it might be well with them, and with their children FOR EVER!

Deut 6:22 And the LORD shewed signs and wonders, great and sore, F29 upon Egypt, upon Pharaoh, and upon all his household, before our eyes: 23 And he brought us out from thence, that he might bring us in, to give us the land which he sware unto our fathers. 24 And the LORD commanded us TO DO all these statutes, to fear the LORD our God, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day. 25 And it shall be OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS, ".[u][b][size=large][color=0000CC]IF[/color][/size][/b][/u]WE OBSERVE TO DO ALL THESE COMMANDMENTS before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us

Psalm 119:172 My tongue shall speak of "thy word": [b]for all thy commandments are righteousness.[/b]

Isn't "thy word"-Jesus Christ the Word of God as taught in John 1:1? But in Psalm 119, we have David likening " thy word"-to be "ALL HIS COMMANDMENTS which are RIGHTEOUSNESS"?

Paul West mentioned earlier, that the law was meant to " BRING US TO CHRIST"-and that is indeed true, however we must remember that a man can ONLY COME TO CHRIST, if the Father has drawn him by the Spirit. The only thing that can "bring us to Christ" is the Spirit of God/Christ-what does that say about the law?

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [b]to bring us unto Christ[/b], that we might be justified by faith

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, [b]except the Father which hath sent me draw him[/b]: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, [b]except it were given unto him of my Father.[/b]

So what does that say about the law? That God used the law/Spirit to draw/bring men unto Christ.

S
sscr01

Again, "Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we ESTABLISH the law."

Again, ""Was not Abraham our father, JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, when he had offered Isaac his son, upon the altar?" Ja 2.

"For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead, also." Ja 2.

Rom 16:26 refers to "the obedience of faith."

If you do not obey His Word, then, you cannot call Him, Lord.

M
Miccah

[u][b]Isaiah 64:6 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

"But we are all like an unclean thing, And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags; We all fade as a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, Have taken us away."


Your works are as filthy rags to Him.


[u][b]Revelation 3:1-6 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

“And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
‘These things says He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars: “I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die, for I have not found your works perfect before God. Remember therefore how you have received and heard; hold fast and repent. Therefore if you will not watch, I will come upon you as a thief, and you will not know what hour I will come upon you. You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with Me in white, for they are worthy. He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.”’

C
Christinyou

Amen Paul,

If even with the help of the Christ we have in us we could keep all the commandments (Law), Why would Christ have to die. Could He not say Here I am, the Son of God and now with me you can keep all the commandments (Law). I think He tried that, it got Him killed on a tree.

Why do we then have a new Seed born again in us with the Mind of Christ and the Nature of God within us, if putting a new heart and mind in us we could do all that the kingdom offers to Israel, in His millineal reign over this earth. Why did they kill Him? Yes Paul and Paul West, you are so totally completely right when you say God knew of course that Israel could not do it, and the Gentiles could not either. But God in Christ Jesus planting the alone abiding Seed, Christ Himself in the Ground, with new resurrection life by the power of God that Seed is bringing forth much fruit. That fruit is the Christian believer in The Son of God, the only one that could fulfill the Law and is now fulfilling not only the Law in us, but also bringing God's on sons into His House, not Christs Kingdom on this earth, which will be Israel and all those that will believe in Christ at that time and then He will put His words into their heart, which we have total and complete in the life of Christ in us, already giving us a new nature, Gods nature, we don't need the Law or the Commandments to keep, we are the law and the commandments on this earth, just like He is so are we.

What difference in doing works for salvation and having it by the Free Grace of God through the Faith of Jesus Christ and having to have new hearts put in us and having to have written words put in us also. Our Glory is all this is fulfilled in Christ and we are His body the Church. All baptized into One Spirit, which is Christ and Him giving us the Comforter to rightly divide the Word that we might see the Glory of God in Christ Jesus who is now our life in all that we do. My mind must be renewed to this Mind that is now ours. "For we have the Mind of Christ", already.

1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.

It is only Him that we serve God because in the flesh we serve our old father the devil.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

We don't need a new heart, we have Him.

We don't need His word written in us, He is the Word.

1Jo 4:17 Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world.

The Sabbath? We are the Sabbath ourselves, because He that is in us is our Rest, (Sabbath).

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

The Gentiles who do the things of God without the Law are the Law unto themselves.

Rom 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:

That is the Christ in you.

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

It is such a shame that the Seventh Day Sabbath is a stumbling stone to those who keep the Law and cannot see the freedom in Christ our Law Keeper and enabler of all that we do in Him.

He Keeps the Law and because of Him we keep the Law out of Love not out of duty or fear.

Galatians 5:1-5 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

In Christ: Phillip

In Christ: Phillip

P
PaulWest

I "Amen" your full post, Phillip. I bless God that your eyes are open to the truth and power of the abiding Christ and nothing of ourselves. How wonderful is the rest from striving and working and doing and observing! Blessed grace. In Him and Him alone is the fulfillment of all things required by God and we who have been baptized into His death have also been raised in Him to live a life of overcoming. Blessed be our Lord and God who always gives us victory in Christ!

S
sscr01

You can Pontificate all you want.

If He is Lord, you will obey His commandments. Otherwise, you transgress His law.

I
InTheLight

Thank God for the Covenant of Grace!

[url=http://www.exadventist.com/]Ex Adventist.com[/url]

In Christ,

Ron

S
sscr01

"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin (the "transgression of the law" 1 John 3:4), that grace may bound? GOD FORBID. How shall we, that are dead to sin,(the "transgression of the law"), live any longer therein?" Rom 6:1.

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

"Even so,faith if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." Ja 2:17.

B
BlazedbyGod

Christinyou (Philip) you said:
"The Sabbath? We are the Sabbath ourselves, because He that is in us is our Rest, (Sabbath)"

If that is true, then why did the apostle Paul say:
2 Cor 2:13 [b]I had no rest in my spirit,[/b] because I found not Titus my brother: but taking my leave of them, I went from thence into Macedonia.

Paul clearly states he had no rest IN HIS SPIRIT.

Also, has it ever dawned on people that "rest" in greek and "sabbath" are TWO DIFFERENT words.

If Jesus is our rest or sabbath in the sense that we do not have to observe the sabbath-then that would mean that Jesus is also our Holiness, and we do not have to live Holy because he is our holiness. But that is absurd right?

The fact is, there is no scripture, nor teaching in the Bible whatsoever that Christ changed the Sabbath Day, or replaced the Sabbath Day with himself.

Jesus himself is King of the Jews, and the covenant of the Sabbath was " for ever, perpetual"-and the last time I checked, "for ever" meant..............."for ever"

Exodus 31:12-18
12 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you. 14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you: every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people. 15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, for a [b]perpetual covenant.[/b] 17 It is a sign between me and the children of Israel [b]for ever:[/b] for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.

Weren't jews, the first Christians?
Doesn't the Bible say or teach that a real follower of Christ, though he be a Gentile outwardly, he is really of jew inwardly-because he is circumcized of heart?

Rom 2: 28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 [b]But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit[/b], and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Isn't Rom 2:29 the description of a Christian?-yet he is called a "Jew Inwardly"-maybe because it is the same Christ who is in us, his same Spirit-that he himself, is the jew in us.

The Bible says let this MIND that was in Christ Jesus be in us-well the mind that Christ had was to obey ALL the Father's Commandments, and that even included keeping the Sabbath DAY holy unto the Lord.


C
Christinyou

God is speaking of Spiritual Rest in the Assurance of Salvation in Christ Jesus.

Paul is speaking of the flesh having on rest in his spirit.

This is one time when Paul should have trusted Christ and did not.

His rest was still in Christ or he would have not left for Macedonia.

The Law is dead. How will we survive? Christ Jesus. I serve the Law through Him.

Romans 7:4-25 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

In Christ: Phillip

B
BlazedbyGod


Christinyou wrote:
God is speaking of Spiritual Rest in the Assurance of Salvation in Christ Jesus.

Paul is speaking of the flesh having on rest in his spirit.

This is one time when Paul should have trusted Christ and did not.

His rest was still in Christ or he would have not left for Macedonia.

The Law is dead. How will we survive? Christ Jesus. I serve the Law through Him.

Romans 7:4-25 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

In Christ: Phillip


Wherefore the law is [b]holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good[/b]. Was then that which is good made death unto me? [b]God forbid.[/b] But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. [b]For we know that the law is spiritual[/b]: but I am carnal

For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God..."

Rest in Greek: Anapauo, Anapausis
to cause or permit one to cease from any movement or labour in order to recover and collect his strength
to give rest, refresh, to give one's self rest, take rest
to keep quiet, of calm and patient expectation

Sabbath in Greek: Sabbaton
the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work
the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week
a single sabbath, sabbath day
[b]seven days, a week[/b]

Two total different definitions

The word rest in Heb 4:10 is this:
Rest:Katapausis
a putting to rest
calming of the winds
a resting place
metaph. the heavenly blessedness in which God dwells, and of which he has promised to make persevering believers in Christ partakers AFTER the toils and trials of life on earth are ended

Heb 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11 [b]eLet us labour therefore TO ENTER into that rest[/b], lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief

The rest in this verse, happens at the end of the believers life, when they die on earth and enter into Heaven-this is not talking about the Sabbath Day.

Paul in verse 11 " Let us LABOR therefore TO ENTER INTO ..." future tense, meaning, as of yet WE HAVE NOT YET ENTERED INTO THAT REST-because that rest only happens at death in Christ. In verse 10 Paul is talking about Christians who have ALREADY died or went on to be with the Lord, in his presence. This is brought out in:

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, [b]that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.[/b]

Matt 12:8 For the Son of man is Lord even of the sabbath day.

JESUS is still LORD, to this very day-if the Sabbath is no longer the 7th Day as some say on this forum, then you have made Jesus a Liar-because even Jesus says He is Lord OF THE SABBATH DAY. To say that the Sabbath is no longer a day, is to say that there are only 6 days in a week now.

The "day" that Christ became your LORD, he was still "Lord even of the Sabbath Day-and He still is even to this Day, Lord of the Sabbath Day.

M
Miccah

Anyway you try to spin it, bondage to a day is not of Christ.

C
Christinyou

Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

\\Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

This sounds like rest now, not in the future and it is in Christ not in the Seventh Day Sabbath.

Learn of Him.

6 days? I think you are grasping for straws because the overwhelming evidence is the Sabbath is Christ and our rest is in Him. I will keep a Sabbath, but it will be everyday in Him, for He is our peace and rest and our all in all.

In Christ: Phillip

B
BlazedbyGod


Christinyou wrote:
Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all [ye] that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

\\Mat 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

This sounds like rest now, not in the future and it is in Christ not in the Seventh Day Sabbath.

Learn of Him.

6 days? I think you are grasping for straws because the overwhelming evidence is the Sabbath is Christ and our rest is in Him. I will keep a Sabbath, but it will be everyday in Him, for He is our peace and rest and our all in all.

In Christ: Phillip

There is nothing in either one of these two verse that suggest the rest is right away, or now as you say. " I WILL GIVE YOU rest" " you SHALL FIND rest"

Neither of these verses have anything to do with the Sabbath Day in the sense of replacing the Sabbath Day.

The rest spoken of by Paul in Heb 4:11 is a future tenst rest of Christian who are alive today.

Also, in both of this verses, whom is Jesus talking to scripturally-Jews or Gentiles?

Did you even notice that the very next verse after Matt 11:29-30 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
is :
Matt 12:1 At that time Jesus went on the sabbath day ...

Also the word "rest" in Matt 11:28-30, is the same word "rest" used in Luke 11:24 When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, [b]seeking rest; and finding none[/b], he saith, I will return unto my house whence I came out

So was this unclean spirit looking for the "rest" promised by Jesus to all those that come unto him? Was the unclean spirit looking for rest unto his soul in Jesus, or does it mean he was looking for a physical break, a stop of motion? an intermission from his labour.

There is no text to support the change of the Sabbath Day in any manner.

Christ is indeed our peace, but just because He is our peace, does that mean we can neglect or not care about bearing that particular fruit of the Spirit. Or you can't say, " well Jesus is my Peace, so I don't have bear peace as a fruit of the Spirit?

If you saw someone who was a believer, but they lacked the fruit of the Spirit peace-would you say " O that's ok, Jesus is their peace"?

Yes, Jesus is our peace, but aren't we still told to "FOLLOW AFTER PEACE"

2 Tim 2:22Flee also youthful lusts: BUT FOLLOW righteousness, faith, charity, [b]peace[/b], with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart

Hebrews 12:14 [b]Follow peace with all men[/b], and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

So you see that just because He is our Peace, doesn't mean that we do not have follow after peace, just like, just because He is our Lord "EVEN" of the Sabbath, doesn't mean that we do not have to follow or observe the Sabbath Day.

The Sabbath is a Day,....just like the "DAY" of the LORD is a literal "DAY"-the Lord's "DAY" is a literal Day ABOUT a person, but is not a person in itself, just like the Sabbath Day is a day for and of a person, but it of itself is not a person.

The Lord's Day, the Sabbath Day, and the Day of the Lord are all "DAYS" ABOUT,SET APART, OF the Lord.

Also what about this that I asked you about in my last post:

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal

Rom 7:22For I delight in the [b]law of God after the INWARD MAN[/b]:

Rom 7:25...So then with the mind I myself serve the [b]law of God[/b]..."

What is the law of God?

S
sscr01

So, the Lord sanctified and blessed the seventh day Sabbath. Then, He commmands us to "Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy." Ex 20:8.

And He didn't mean it?

M
Miccah


[u][b]2 Peter 2:1-3 (NKJV)[/b][/u]


[b]Destructive Doctrines[/b]


But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed. By covetousness they will exploit you with deceptive words; for a long time their judgment has not been idle, and their destruction does not slumber.

I
InTheLight

The first Sabbath after the six days of creation must have been a blessed day indeed, there was complete peace and perfect rest. No wonder Moses said, "Remember the Sabbath day."(Exo 20:8).

Sadly, that rest did not continue, it was lost through sin, and God now looked forward to another rest. This time is was not for all mankind in general but for those who were bought by the precious blood of Christ. This promised rest was preached to Israel but they didn't enter in (Heb 4:2). They kept their own Sabbath but never entered in to God's Sabbath.

Notice that one of the operative words of Hebrews 4 is "Today". Any day, any where, we may know God's Sabbath rest, for it depends not on a time or place but upon a Person, who still assures the heavy-hearted that they may find rest if they will just come to Him.

We no longer have the Sabbath of a seventh day. We don't even know which is the seventh day, for the numbering of days is quite arbitrary and in no way connected with Adam's first full day on earth. We will never find rest in religious observance but only in coming directly to the Lord Jesus Christ.

There was something aggressively negative in the Pharisees' attitude to the Sabbath. They made hard work and heavy burdens out of their legalism. We produce the same effect by our negative attitude. True fellowship with Christ brings liberty not bondage, full deliverance from every yoke but His.

Why are we a restless people? Because we have lost faith in God's love for us.Right from the beginning at that first Sabbath day there was no doubt of His love for His creation. It was when Satan raised questions about that perfect love of God that man's restless wandering began.

The Pharisees had completely lost sight of God's love and were prepared to kill Christ for challenging their loveless code. The Sabbath had become a matter for dread rather than love. The Sabbath is for liberty, not for licence: God's love calls us to rest from self as well as sin.

In Christ,

Ron

S
sscr01

"The calendar has not been changed so as to confuse the days of the week. We can be positive that our seventh day is the same day Jesus observed when He was here. Pope Gregory 111 did make a calendar change in 1582, but it did not interfere with the weekly cycle."

In answer to a similar question, the U.S. NAVAL OBSERVATORY, March 12, 1932, wrote, "I can only state that in connection with the proposed simplification of the calendar, we have had occasion to investigate the results of specialists in chronology and we have never found one of them has ever had the slightest doubt about the continuity of the weekly cycle, since long before the christian era. There has been no change in past centuries, that has affected in any way the cycle of the week."

DR.W.W.CAMPBELL, director of the LICK OBSERVATORY in Mt Hamilton, California assures us: "The week of seven days has been in use since the days of Moses, and we have no reason for supposing that any irregularities have existed in the succession of weeks and their days from that time to the present." D.W.Cross, Your Amazing Calendar, pp.6,7.

THE PENTAGON DEPARTMENT OF ASTRONOMY said, that from the postition of the stars, every moment of time has been kept track of since before 500 B.C.

DR.J.B. DIMBLEBY, premier chronologist to the BRITISH CHRONOLOGICAL AND ASTRONOMICAL ASSOCIATION, after years of careful calculations asserts:"If men refuse to observe weeks, and the line of time was forgotten, the day of the week could be recovered by observing when transits of planets, or eclipses of the sun and moon, occurred. These great sentinels of the sky keep seven days with scientific accuracy, thundering out the days inscribed on the inspired page." All Past Time, p.10.

DR.G.E.HALE, noted astronomer for whom the great "Palomar telescope" has been named, expressed the same truth in five forceful words: "No time has been lost."

In Shemitic, Hebrew, Targu, Ancient Syriac, Chaldee Syriac, Samaritan, Babylonian, Assyrian, Arabic, Maltese, Ethipic, Tigre, Amharic, Falasha, Coptic, Orma, Tamashek, Berber, Hausa, Urdu, Pashto, Greek, Latin, Spanish, Portugese...(over 100 languages), the word for Saturday is "Sabbath." The most obvious is "Sabado" in Spanish.

I think, that, what we have here, is a refusal to obey the fourth commandment. It is only "legalism," when you don't want to obey His commandments.

James 2:10,11 states, that, if we break one of the commandments, we become transgressors of His law and are guilty of breaking all of them.

He is, only, Lord, to those who obey His Word.

I
InTheLight

There's no doubt that Jesus's attitude to the Sabbath was confusing to the Pharisees, but then God's thoughts and ways are much different and higher than mans.

Is it possible that, like the Pharisees, we are more concerned with traditions and convictions of our own than with accepting the yoke of the meek and humble Savior? Perhaps we are more afraid of seeming to be wrong or of what we call 'compromise' when our first fear should be "lest haply a promise being left of entering into his rest, anyone of you would seem to have come short of it" (Heb 4:1).

The Lord Jesus Christ said, "Come unto me," When we use our Bibles to do that we shall find rest, but if we only treat them as a handbook we are in danger of controversial unrest.

In Christ,

Ron

M
Miccah

sscr01 wrote:

He is, only, Lord, to those who obey His Word.


This is the same tactics that the JW and Mormons use to "scare" people to follow their false belief. Nice mix on using scripture to negate the truth. Even these groups have the knowledge and knowhow to mix scripture to make it fit their lies.


[u][b]John 3:16 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.


Plan as day. No worries though, the bondage people will spin it to make it connect with Mrs. Ellen G. Whites beliefs.

Wasn't she a false prophet as well?

S
sscr01

There are Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, non-denominational and more and more churches, that, are keeping the Sabbath.

M
Miccah


sscr01 wrote:



There are Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, non-denominational and more and more churches, that, are keeping the Sabbath.


And only the false prophets are spinning scripture to say that your salvation is in jeopardy if you don't keep the 7th day sabbath.

S
sscr01

No...I am not saying, that,your salvation is in jeopardy if you don't keep the Sabbath. If you are born again, you are in His Kingdom. But, we should strive to be obedient to the entire Word of God.

The RCC calls the changing of the Sabbath, her "MARK" of authority.

Pope John Paul 11, Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell have called for re-instituting the Sunday, or "Blue laws." They are, still, on the books in 26 states. In Virginia, the third infraction meant death!

That is one of the reasons why we discuss the Sabbath.

If the Papacy of the RCC is The Antichrist, as the Reformers charged, they have used states and kingdoms to accomplish their ends. Jesus never used states or Kingdoms to further His Kingdom.

The last Beast Kingdom, grows up out of a sparsely populated place (in contrast to the first Beast: Rev 17:15), has two horns without crowns - religious and civil liberty. It is "like a Lamb" - a young Christian nation. "But speaks as a Dragon." "The greatest superpower the world has ever known." Protestant America.

My sister is a conservative Republican officeholder. She is very concerned about those on the far-right. They want to use government to bring the USA back to God. Jesus did not do that.

We are to fight a spiritual warfare for the souls of men.

M
Miccah

sscr01 wrote:



No...I am not saying, that,your salvation is in jeopardy if you don't keep the Sabbath. If you are born again, you are in His Kingdom.


This is exactly what you and the others have been saying throughout the entirety of this thread and other threads like this, disguising it as the word of god.

You and the other bondage people sneak in under the guise of fellowship, try to lay down a law of bondage, create havoc, then take off for a while to regroup, ever ready to come back in and hit believers up again when they are least likely to expect it. These shenanigans, along with the false gospel presented, are unacceptable.


We are to fight a spiritual warfare for the souls of men.

Correct you are.

C
Christinyou

There are two types of Christians. One is trusting in Jesus of Nazareth the earthly Jesus and all outward works of the LAW. The other is inward, Christ in you the hope of glory, which is full of Grace and Faith.

2Cr 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [him] no more.

Galatians 2:14-16 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews? We who are Jews by nature, and not sinners of the Gentiles, Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The Word actually claims three different types of Christians.

1 John 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

1 John 2:13-15 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one. Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

There are little children in the Body of Christ, who need spirit filled teacher to bring them to son level and the on to Father level.

Little children know their sins are forgiven, but have no understanding of who they are in Christ, and there are not many teaching this in Christ position, most are teaching Law operated works fulfilling that which is abolished.

2Cr 3:13 And not as Moses, [which] put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, [even] the law of commandments [contained] in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, [so] making peace;

Enmity:

Strong's Greek Dictionary
2189. echthra
Search for G2189 in KJVSL
ecqra echthra ekh'-thrah
feminine of 2190; hostility; by implication, a reason for opposition:--enmity, hatred.

Law: Strong's Greek Dictionary
3551. nomos
Search for G3551 in KJVSL
nomoV nomos nom'-os
from a primary nemo (to parcel out, especially food or grazing to animals); law (through the idea of prescriptive usage), genitive case (regulation), specially, (of Moses (including the volume); also of the Gospel), or figuratively (a principle):--law.

Commandments:
Strong's Greek Dictionary
1785. entole
Search for G1785 in KJVSL
entolh entole en-tol-ay'
from 1781; injunction, i.e. an authoritative prescription:--commandment, precept.

ordinances:
Strong's Greek Dictionary
1378. dogma
Search for G1378 in KJVSL
dogma dogma dog'-mah
from the base of 1380; a law (civil, ceremonial or ecclesiastical):--decree, ordinance.

This pretty much takes in all that Moses Gave to Israel.

Christ Abolished, in His Flesh it was beaten to death and no longer has authority over the Born Again Children of God. That is the work of Christ in us perfect in us at His coming, which is now, He has come the flesh of man that man might see the things of the kingdom of God, which Nicodemus could not understand because he was not born again.


2Ti 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

Abolished the Law of Commandments and ordinances and death.

What don't you understand about the word abolished? Strong's Greek Dictionary
2673. katargeo
Search for G2673 in KJVSL
katargew katargeo kat-arg-eh'-o
from 2596 and 691; to be (render) entirely idle (useless), literally or figuratively:--abolish, cease, cumber, deliver, destroy, do away, become (make) of no (none, without) effect, fail, loose, bring (come) to nought, put away (down), vanish away, make void.

Now to return to the Son level of Christian experience, (young men). young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
Remember this level, when we found we have power over the devil in Christ and he cannot touch us.

Now to you Father who from the beginning have know Him.

Ephesians 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This is the Father Level and also the level that The Father wants us to attain through the working of the Holy Spirit teacher in word and truth, Christ is our Life and most certainly our Sabbath rest is in Him. Let us praise God every day and continue in the Praise of His Glory in Christ Jesus.

If you must keep the Seventh Day Sabbath which has been abolished, if the 4th commandment is and commandment and ordinance, they as a Christian you are on the scale of the Child you must do something for your salvation, knowing your sins are forgiven.

Hebrews 6:1-2 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.

"Go on into perfection? Who is that in?

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

How are we make perfect? Not by the abolished Law of commandment and ordinances, tearing down the wall that kept us form God, the Law and making of 2, One new man. That is Christ and us as One and we are now new creatures in Christ Jesus.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Including the Law and Commandment, including the Sabbath day because the only One we keep Holy is Him our Sabbath Himself.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

Neither the law keeping Jews or the of no effect in the world Gentiles.

We are all baptized into One Spirit. Christ.

This is what happened to Christ also. And about 12, He became a man, teaching in the temple lost from His father and mother being about His Father's work.

In Christ My Sabbath: Phillip

R
rowdy2

The worldly and the world are under The Ten Commandments. God will not make peace with no unrepentant sinner full of rebellion and the spirit of antichrist. The Ten Commandments are the iron rod of God’s justice that Jesus rules the world with.

I do not knowing try to keep any worldly examples of God's Laws in the flesh. I would count myself either with the hypocrites or the ignorant of The Word if I attempted to match the holiness of God.

You speak not of spiritual things but of carnal when "Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years. I am afraid of you" like Paul.

Who was Paul afraid of?
Christians that live like the world
Christians that think like the world
Christians that WORSHIP in worldly carnality.

The Rock "not made with hands" smashes the clay and the Iron and all the clay is returned too dust. God's Law's can not be rescinded, revoked, or canceled. All God's Laws are above carnal comprehension. The carnal can only violate and curse God's Laws. God’s laws are excepted by faith by believers.

What is the Sabbath? Why did God send His Son to be made sin and be rejected by His Father and die on the cross? Too redeem and sanctify sinners so that we could come before His Throne clothed in the righteousness of His Son. Reconciled prodical sons at peace with our Creator and Heavenly Father. Not in the filthy rags of rebellious flesh like the hypocrite that kept some carnal law that the false church full of guile with the spirit of antichrist substitutes for the Laws of God to keep people in bondage in that spiritual deserted, dead building made to substitute for the living tabernacle of God, man.

Spiritual sons, who will be given celestial bodies like our Lord's.

KJV.
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Christians who are born again are under grace and have rest.

Those that have the spirit of iniquity will be smashed by the rod of Iron. By the righteousness of God and His Laws of righteousness.

I accept that Jesus is Lord of Heaven on Earth and He rules with a staff of righteousness.

I except that Jesus is Lord of the world and rules with a Rod of Iron, God's Law.

Thy Rod and Thy Staff comfort me when I’m under personal attacks. Praise God, let me be found worthy.

Eddie

S
sermonindex

Eddie, thank you again for a spiritual perspective.

Praise God, let me be found worthy.
Father, thank you for the Light of your presence and countenance, to whom ever we come to be being cleansed from all sin by the blood of Jesus Christ.

S
sscr01

If you don't obey His law, you are transgressors - that, is what sin is.1 John 3:4.

Not by our might, or power, but, by His Spirit working through us.

"As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions (of the law) from us...TO SUCH AS KEEP HIS COVENANT, and TO THOSE THAT REMEMBER HIS COMMANDMENTS TO DO THEM." Ps 103.

Covenants have conditions.

Again, when Jesus gave us the "Two Greatest Commandments," He was quoting the law: Deut 6:5;Lev 19:18.

These two are a summation of The Ten:
If you love the Lord, supremely, you will not bow down to, or, worship other gods, take His name in vain, or, profane His holy day.

If you love your neighbour as yourself, you will honor your parents, do no murder, commit adultery steal, bear false witness or covet.

"By THIS we know that we love the children of God (G.C. #2), when we love God,(#1) and keep His commandments.For THIS is the love of God, that we keep His commandments: and His commandments are not grievous." 1 John 5:2,3.

Not to those who have them engraved upon their hearts and minds. Jer 31:31-34;Heb 8:10-13, which is the New Covenant.

Jesus said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15.

"And hereby we do know that we know Him, IF we keep His commandments. He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the Truth is not in him.But whoso keepeth HIS WORD,(His law) in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in Him.

He that saith he abideth in Him ought himself also so to walk, even as He walked.

Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the Word which ye have heard from the beginning." 1 John 2:3-7.

"And THIS is love, that we walk after His commandments." 2 John 6.

How do you know, that, you love Him, if you do not keep His commandments?

And, finally, "Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

These are not my words, but His Word.

R
rowdy2

Reply


I did not intend to put down any of you, I except all of your opinions in good faith.

I presently hold the view of some of you, or have held the same view of others and have defended that view publicly as others of you have done.

May we remain at peace and love one another until the day we are given the light with out measure. All we have is given to us.

Romans 3 KJV
26. To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
27. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
28. Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
29. Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
30. Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
31. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.


Eddie

S
sermonindex

2 Corinthiams 3:

13And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

16Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

17Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

Katy

S
sermonindex

2 Corinthiams 3

Corinthiams? I haven't of that book before :-P

Z
Zionshield

Do you suppose it may be possible that the Law that we were set free from is not the same thing as the commandments of Christ?

Z
Zionshield

Well said. It is a very important matter to not be placed under the law again. It is a yoke of bondage that arouses the old man. When it says do not lust I do the very thing. It incites the sin in me...because it was for the purpose of revealing sin in me and preparing me for the Savior. This is a deeper thing than the sabboth all together and must be understood. Col.2:14 says that He canceled the writen code nailing it to the cross. The commandments referred to in the new testament are those given by the Lord through His Spirit. To be filled (controlled) by the Spirit implies we are submitted and obedient to Him. Gal. 5:18 If you are led by the Spirit you are not under the law. (it should be noted that to be filled with the Spirit has the same result as letting the Word of Christ richly dwell within you in Col.4)

Watch this...see how God deals with the old nature. He doesn't say follow this list of rules. He crucifies the sinful nature with its passion and lusts (Gal. 5:24). Because regulations and rules have no power in restraining sensual indulgence (Col.2:23).

Look at the quandry Paul is in in Romans 7. Its all about the law and his effort to do. He wants to obey so badly (no lost man would say that) but he has not the ability. He wants to do what God wants but can't. Knowing the law and wanting to obey it can't help him, only make him more miserable. Only the Spirit gives life...and as we obey Him we are obeying Christ. Jesus is not saying obey the ten commandments when He says obey My commands. The distinction must be made between His commandments and the ten commandments.

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sscr01

As I said, before,when Jesus gave us the "Two Greatest Commandments," He was quoting the law. Deut 6:5; Lev 19:18.

These two are a summation of The Ten:

If you love the Lord, supremely, you will not bow down to or worship other gods, take His name in vain, or profane His holy day.

If you love your neighbour as yourself, you will not dishonor your parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness or covet.

The Ten Commandments were/are God's Covenant with man.

He, absolutely, did mean for us to keep these commandments.

How could you walk with a holy God and transgress His law?

Sin is "the transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4.

You can muddy the water all you want, but the fourth commandment is a commandment, not a request.

If we walk with Him in His Spirit, we will not transgress His Word - His law.

C
Christinyou

These 2 commandments were taken and given anew in Christ. These are not the first two of the 10 commandments.

The new commandments; 2 John 1:1-13 The elder unto the elect lady and her children, whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the truth; For the truth's sake, which dwelleth in us, and shall be with us for ever. Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love. I rejoiced greatly that I found of thy children walking in truth, as we have received a commandment from the Father. And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist. Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward. Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds. Having many things to write unto you, I would not write with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full. The children of thy elect sister greet thee. Amen.

John presumed that the command to love one another was understood as far as the gospel was known; and he might well presume it, for true Christianity never prevails anywhere without prompting to the observance of this law. Cmt. on 1Th 4:9.

For ye yourselves are taught of God. The word here rendered "taught of God" qeodidaktoi occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. It is correctly translated, and must refer here to some direct teaching of God on their own hearts, for Paul speaks of their being so taught by him as to need no special precepts in the case. He refers to that influence exerted on them when they became Christians, by the very Christ that was born again in them, by which they were led to love all who bear the Divine image. He calls this being "taught of God," not because it was of the nature of revelation or inspiration of the old testament 10 commandments, which brought death, but because it was, in fact, the teaching of God in this case, though it was secret and silent. The mystery of Christ in you, God has many ways of teaching men. The lessons which we learn from his Providence are a part of his instructions. The same is true of the decisions of our own consciences, and of the secret and silent influence of His Spirit that was birthed in us, on our hearts, disposing us to love what is lovely, and to do what ought to be done. In this manner all true Christians are taught to love those who bear the image of their Saviour. They feel that they are brethren; and such is their strong attachment to them, from the very nature of Christ, that they do not need any express command of God to teach them to love them. It is one of the first--the elementary effects of Christ on the soul, by Holy Spirit teaching of this Christ that is now our nature, to lead us to love "the brethren;" and to do this is one of the evidences of piety about which there need be no danger of deceptions. Comp. 1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death. The Law.

This is new testament law of the Spirit...Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Which is do or die.

Chase the 10 commandments all you want to, they will bring death. This is the only thing of the commandments that will brings life; Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

It is fulfilled in Christ's Spirit that is in us, He being the fulfillment of the Law.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Flesh cannot keep any commandments all the time or even all the commandments once.

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

This is the difference of keeping the commandments and dying by them or living by them in faith by the Christ that is in you the Hope of Glory.

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

So the question is, who are you being led by? Not are you keeping the old testament commandments that were for Israel, God's chosen people, which led them to where they are today, still an obstinate and unbelieving people who crucified the Lord of Glory.

We walk with a Holy God by His Son that He planned before the foundation of the world to be in us.

Ephesians 1:3-4 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

In Christ: Phillip

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sscr01

If we walk in His Spirit, we will not transgress His law.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW." 1 John 3:4.

If you transgress His law, you are a sinner.

C
Christinyou

Do you, we transgress God's Law?

Does Christ transgress God's Law?

If Christ is in you is He a transgressor of the Law when we commit sin's of the flesh?

Do we have an advocate with the Father to appropriate forgiveness when we confess?

Who is God depending on for our salvation, us that still have sins of the flesh or the Sinless Seed of Christ in us.

It is like a thoroughbred race horse, the owner is not depending on the horse but the Seed of the Father that fathered him. Which was paid a great price.

Mat 13:46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

1Pe 3:4 But [let it be] the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, [even the ornament] of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. (which He Paid)

God is depending on the perfect Seed, that is Incorruptable Seed that is born again in us when we believe for our salvation. That is why He took away the sin of Adam that the whole world was lost. Then giving each individual His Seed, those that believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and what the Father has said about Him, He provided the Advocate to forgive us individual fleshly sin by confession. So no one can commit the sin of Adam's law, "Don't eat", that was the sin of the world Christ provided the atonement for and also the individual sin that Christ put His Blood on the altar that we individually might be forgiven our sin and they never remembered again as the sacrifices of the Law were remembered at each sacrifice of an animal for individual sin.

That is how John can say, "those that are born from above, of God, don't sin and still say if we say we have no sin we lie".

The Sin of Adam forgiven The born of God can never be commited again because of the Christ in him. We no longer have the nature of Adam, which was of his father the devil, whom he believed. For our Father is God by the Son, whom we now believe.

1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 4:7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, [even] our faith.

1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

Sins of the flesh which are personal and forgivable, not the sin of Adam the first, flesh, which the second Adam in living Spirit took away.

1Cr 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

Whom do you serve? The Law or The Quickening Spirit Christ. Did you receive the Spirit?

As I have asked; Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Flesh cannot keep any commandments all the time or even all the commandments once.

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

This is the difference of keeping the commandments and dying by them or living by them in faith by the Christ that is in you the Hope of Glory.

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

In Christ: Phillip


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sscr01

If you do not keep the fourth commandment, you are a transgressor of the law.

I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me." Ga 2:20.

"What shall we say then? Shall we CONTINUE IN SIN (the "transgression of the law." 1 John 3:4), that grace may abound? GOD FORBID. How shall we, that are dead to sin, (the transgression of the law) live any longer therein?" Rom 6:1.

"Do we then make void the law through faith? GOD FORBID: yea, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW." Rom 3:31.

(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, BUT THE DOERS OF THE LAW SHALL BE JUSTIFIED." Rom 2:13.

Rom 16:26 refers to "THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH."

By faith Abraham...obeyed." Heb 11:8.

"Was not Abraham our father JUSTIFIED BY WORKS when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, AND BY WORKS WAS FAITH MADE PERFECT?

And the Scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed to him for righteousness: and he was called the friend of God.

Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, AND NOT BY FAITH, ONLY...

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead, also." Ja 2

When God commands, if we love Him, we will obey Him.

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

"And being made perfect, He became the author of eternal salvation, unto ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM." Heb 5:9.

You cannot call Him, "Lord," if you do not obey His commandments.

M
Miccah

Ahhh, the day worshippers are back.

Didn't the ancient Greeks worship a day of the week as well?


sscr01, do you wish to bring revival, or continue to spread your false witness here to try to win converts?

Find a new topic please and quit worshipping a day of the week.

C
Christinyou

If you don't know that Christ is become the fourth commandment, you are missing the peace and rest that God intended when He birthed His Son in you and gave you a new nature, a new creature in Christ Jesus.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

In Christ: Phillip

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rowdy2

Reply to sscr01

You have taken us from victory in Jesus to trying to produce our own righteousness, a discussion worth having and a good reminder for me not to jump to conclusions.

But I still think that going back and trying to understand the old man is a waste of time. Its like digging in a old skin full of rotten fruit.

Spend the time walking in the light shining from the heart of the new man and declaring the greatness of the Holy Spirit that produces a likeness of the son of man that leads to sonship of Almighty God.

Seek the Kingdom of God and the giver of the law of the new land, seek His gifts, protection and the joy and peace that comes from His Lordship in His Kingdom..

We are to celebrate victories over doubts, fears, and temptations and give thanks too the One whose leadership hangs Satan on the gallows that you and he had prepared in your heart for the Holy Spirit. Then our King's wrath will be pacified.

Ephesians 4: 21-24
If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts and be renewed in the spirit of your mind and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

Hos.10:12-13.
12 Sow to yourselves in righteousness, reap in mercy; break up your fallow ground: for it is time to seek the Lord, till he come and rain righteousness upon you.
13 Ye have plowed wickedness, ye have reaped iniquity; ye have eaten the fruit of lies: because thou didst trust in thy way, in the multitude of thy mighty men.)

What concerns us is your seemingly lack of faith in the lordship of Jesus and strong faith in your will to over come the world and sin. We don’t know you personally but we know the weakness of the flesh and we know for certain that you nor we can keep the laws of God by willing our minds to defeat our fleshly desires.

Most commentators make the mistake of treating the sheep as either lost or as goats. Please make the proper distinctions and you too will give our Lord the glory for His stewardship of the part that He quickened and took the curse from. The new spirit that loves God, His Son and our neighbors .

The flesh is under the curse unto this very day and “will surely die”

But the path we walk is a new path that we are not the guide of. We are followers of The Good Shepard and we are His workmanship and it is He that our souls bow to in our unworthiness.

Eddie


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sscr01

So, because we have grace, it is o.k. to worship other gods, take His name in vain, profane His hold day, dishonor our parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness and covet?

So, why do you exempt the fourth commandment, from all the rest?

That's interesting, because, Jesus took the commandments to the heart, when He said, if you look upon a woman to lust, you have, already, committed adultery with her in your heart. If you are angry with your brother, without cause, you are guilty of murder.

Those under the New Covenant, have His Covenant engraved upon their hearts and mind. Jer 31:31-34;Heb 8:10-13.

How hard is it to keep the Sabbath holy? Millions are doing it every week and more all the time.

"As far as the east is from the west,so far hath He removed our transgressions (of the law: 1 John 3:4) from us...TO SUCH AS KEEP HIS COVENANT, AND TO THOSE THAT REMEMBER HIS COMMANDMENTS TO DO THEM." Ps 103.

Jesus said, "If ye love Me, keep My commandments." John 14:15.

He is, only, Lord, to those that obey His Word.

R
rowdy2

Reply

I do not summit to your judgement , what God hath cleansed, that call not thou common..
Jesus is our Sabbath.

Eddie

C
Christinyou

Quote:

""So, because we have grace, it is o.k. to worship other gods, take His name in vain, profane His hold day, dishonor our parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, bear false witness and covet?""

Grace never allows this kind of rhetorical defaming of God's Grace. For you are saved by God's Grace through Faith. His Faith His Grace, do you think that God will allow His word to return void? God forbid, that is not the God of the Bible.

Quote: He is, only, Lord, to those that obey His Word.

He is only Lord to those that believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and God has put the witness in ourselves.

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

1Jo 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.

1Jo 5:10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.

This is the witness and record of God:

1 John 5:9-13 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Do you not see the turmoil that the seventh day Sabbath brings, which God took away in Christ Jesus our Sabbath.

In Christ: Phillip

J
jayyou

Dear brother Phillip,

Please allow me to ask you a few questions.

Please show me in scriptures How was the transition from the Day(24 hours period, seventh share of the week) into the Person of Jesus Christ.

and Please could you rewrite the fourth commandment according to your understanding.
How is the fourth commandment written for you?

+++++++++

The other question is:

Isaiah 56:1-2 Thus says the LORD: "Keep justice, and do righteousness, For My salvation is about to come, And My righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man who does this, And the son of man who lays hold on it; Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And keeps his hand from doing any evil."

Please note the first word in verse 2.

I will not post the whole chapter but you can have a look if you want.

My question is, based on the first word in verse 2.

Blessed


Is this blessing still available to us, or please show in the bible where it proves to all of us without a shadow of a doubt that this promise was nullified.

is there anywhere in the bible that nullifies all the blessings from this whole chapter?


In christ....

Jayme


C
crsschk

[i] "After keeping the seventh day and extensively advocating it for over a quarter of a century, I became satisfied that it was an error, and that the blessing of God did not go with the keeping of it. Like thousands of others, when I embraced the seventh day Sabbath I thought that the argument was all on one side, so plain that one hour's reading ought to settle it, so clear that no man could reject the Sabbath and be honest. The only marvel to me was that everybody did not see and embrace it.

"But after keeping it twenty eight years; after having persuaded more than a thousand others to keep it; after having read my Bible through, verse by verse, more than twenty times; after having scrutinized, to the very best of my ability every text, line, and word in the Bible having the remotest bearing upon the Sabbath question; after having looked up all these, both in the original and in many translations; after having searched in lexicons, concordances, commentaries, and dictionaries; after having read armfuls of books on both sides of the question; after having read every line in all the early church Fathers upon [4] this point, and having written several works in favor of the seventh day, which were satisfactory to my brethren; after having debated the question for more than a dozen times; after seeing the fruits of keeping it, and weighing all the evidence in the fear of God, I am fully settled in my own mind and convinced that the evidence is against the keeping of the seventh day."[/i] —Seventh day Adventism Renounced, pages 185, 186.

[url=http://www.churchofgodcarmichael.org/sabbath/sabbframeset.html]The Sabbath and the Lord's Day[/url]

P
PaulWest

Dear brethren,

I have found that as soon as I make a conscious resolution to [i]keep[/i] any facet of "Christian" duty in the flesh (even if my purpose for keeping the duty is wrought in the Spirit according to my perception), I am immediately led into bondage. It doesn't matter what the chore is. It has taken the Lord years and years to show me; I have gone through seas of failure and pain and high drama in the flesh to finally begin to grasp the priceless revelation of [i]Christ in me[/i]. Precious brethren, God is concerned with Christ Jesus in me, His life and His righteousness, the working out of [i]His[/i] life through me - which is walking in the Spirit. There is a blessed rest from all physical ordinances for those who walk in the Spirit - under the law of the Spirit of grace. If our eyes are not open to this effectual working of our lives being hidden with Christ in God, we shall never enter into rest and forever be engaged in strivings and stuggles and confusions and debates of the law such as sabbaths and tithes and meats and drink...

God would set us free from all this by a new law - the law of the Spirit of grace which releases us from the law of sin and death. If we could just see that [i]we are dead[/i]. I repeat it again: [i]we are dead[/i]. And again: [i]we are dead![/i] And if we are dead, and reckon ourselves so, we know also that we are raised with Christ, quickened by the same Spirit of God that raised Him and now dwells in us, imparting a Sonship that translates from this world of darkness and and sin and law of ordinances into the Kingdom of Light, a divine revelation that must be grasped if we are to experience the glorious resurrection life God intends for us in Christ.

C
Christinyou

Jay you wrote:

"""is there anywhere in the bible that nullifies all the blessings from this whole chapter?"""Isaiah 56:

Not nullify but confirm it in Christ.

1Cr 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:


What is the purpose of Keeping the Commandments? Law;

Is it not for righteousness sake and sanctification unto our God and Father.

If we keep all the commandments all the time and fail in none, then we are righteous before God. But there is still no life in the commandments, there is only life in Chrsit.

This is the righteousness God demands, keep my commandments and you will live.

Do you know how many times in the Bible it says to keep His commandments? It is over 150 times.

Say to your self "keep His commandments" 150 times, what does that do to you. It only confirms that we cannot keep them, for God is a Holy God and we are not.

The only place we are righteous and sanctified and justified in wisdom and redemption is in Christ, That is what God made Him to be to those that believe. So if I put the keeping of the commandments above What God Has Done In Christ, what am I doing? I am telling God, that was not good enough and I will keep your commandments and make myself holy with the help of Jesus Christ.
That is not what God intended, He made Christ to be all in all for and in us. Why is it so hard to see that no man can keep the commandments? If he could then The Father Giving His Son on the Cross is a worthless gesture and it is only a show of who God is and wants us to be. It is not a complete change in nature and a new life in Christ Jesus, it is only a picture of what we can make ourselves to be by our own doing, works, which we already know cannot please God.

Keeping the seventh day Sabbath is a perfect picture of those works to make us pleasing to God, which we already know, they are not pleasing to Him. There is only One that is pleasing to Him, that is His Only Begotten Son that obeyed Him in all the Law and Commandments and Love and total sacrifice of Himself unto His Father, which God demands of every son.

We cannot do it, it has been done for us, in Christ Jesus.

1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

I keep the Sabbath, but not as a day, but as a Love offering to the Father for what He has done by His Son in me. He is my Sabbath and I keep Him at the front of all that I am, He is my all, which includes all the commandments and in Him I keep them by His power not mine. I still cannot make myself pleasing to God, no matter how hard I try, it cannot be done in self, it can only be done by and through the Christ that is now my life, by His Faith, by His wisdom, by His righteousness, by His sanctification, by His redemption, by His all given for us that we might be the son's of God in Him. Is this not the two first commandments that fulfill all the Law which is now in Christ Jesus that is in us.

Righteousness and Sanctification is now in Christ by the Holy Spirit, by the Christ that God has made in us for His purpose not ours.

Through the Holy Ghost. To understand this, it is necessary to call to mind the promise that Jesus made before his death, that after His departure, the Holy Ghost would descend to be a guide to his apostles. See Joh 16:7-11,. It was to be his office to carry forward the work of redemption in applying it to the hearts of men. Whatever was done, therefore, after the atonement and resurrection of Jesus, after he had finished his great work, was to be regarded as under the peculiar influence and direction of the Holy Ghost. This includes the commandments which are now by the life of Jesus Christ in us, we are to fulfill all of them, Even the instructions of Jesus, his commission to the apostles, etc., were to be regarded as coming within the department of the sacred life of the Spirit of Christ born again in us, given to the Holy Spirit, within the province of His peculiar work. The instructions were given by Divine authority, by infallible guidance, and as a part of the work which the Holy Spirit designed. Under that Spirit the apostles were to go forth; by His aid they were to convert the world, to organize The Body of Christ, the church, to establish its order and its doctrines. And hence the entire work was declared to be by His direction. Though in His larger and more mighty influences, the Spirit did not descend until the day of Pentecost, Lu 24:49; comp. Ac 2:1-47 yet in some measure His influence was imparted to them before the ascension of Christ, Joh 20:22.

Now in all this are we to keep the commandments by our works or by His Work done at the Cross and designated to the Holy Spirit to work in us that all might be accomplished in Christ. Who is our life, all the commandments, including the seventh day Sabbath and all that pertains to life and Godliness, We know this because we now keep His commandments, not by our power, but by His.

1Jo 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

1Jo 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1Jo 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

We keep His commandments because of Him that is in us, not because it is our responsibility to keep them, for we cannot. That is why He is now our Sabbath and all that we are in keeping His commandments, by His Power and By the Holy Spirit.

How do we walk in His commandments? 2Jo 1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it. Again the first two commandments which hang all the law.

His commandments are in Him, and we are in Him and by Him that is in us we walk in His commandments.

Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

By His might, not by mine.

Confirmed, In Christ my keeper of all the commandments making me a keeper of them also:

Phillip

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sermonindex


PaulWest wrote:
Dear brethren,

I have found that as soon as I make a conscious resolution to [i]keep[/i] any facet of "Christian" duty in the flesh (even if my purpose for keeping the duty is wrought in the Spirit according to my perception), I am immediately led into bondage. It doesn't matter what the chore is. It has taken the Lord years and years to show me; I have gone through seas of failure and pain and high drama in the flesh to finally begin to grasp the priceless revelation of [i]Christ in me[/i]. Precious brethren, God is concerned with Christ Jesus in me, His life and His righteousness, the working out of [i]His[/i] life through me - which is walking in the Spirit. There is a blessed rest from all physical ordinances for those who walk in the Spirit - under the law of the Spirit of grace. If our eyes are not open to this effectual working of our lives being hidden with Christ in God, we shall never enter into rest and forever be engaged in strivings and stuggles and confusions and debates of the law such as sabbaths and tithes and meats and drink...

God would set us free from all this by a new law - the law of the Spirit of grace which releases us from the law of sin and death. If we could just see that [i]we are dead[/i]. I repeat it again: [i]we are dead[/i]. And again: [i]we are dead![/i] And if we are dead, and reckon ourselves so, we know also that we are raised with Christ, quickened by the same Spirit of God that raised Him and now dwells in us, imparting a Sonship that translates from this world of darkness and and sin and law of ordinances into the Kingdom of Light, a divine revelation that must be grasped if we are to experience the glorious resurrection life God intends for us in Christ.


Here's a good article I found on Sermon Index by Watchman Nee on "Reckoning". It reminds me exactly of what you are speaking of here. :-)

".....For years after my conversion I had been taught to reckon. I reckoned from 1920 until 1927. The more I reckoned that I was dead to sin, the more alive I clearly was. I simply could not believe myself dead and I could not produce the death. Whenever I sought help from others I was told to read Romans 6:11, and the more I read Romans 6:11 and tried to reckon, the further away death was: I could not get at it. I fully appreciated the teaching that I must reckon, but I could not make out why nothing resulted from it. I have to confess that for months I was troubled. I said to the Lord, 'If this is not clear, if I cannot be brought to see this which is so very fundamental, I will cease to do anything. I will not preach any more; I will not go out to serve Thee any more; I want first of all to get thoroughly clear here.' For months I was seeking, and at times I fasted, but nothing came through.

I remember one morning -- that morning was a real morning and one I can never forget -- I was upstairs sitting at my desk reading the Word and praying, and I said, 'Lord, open my eyes!' And then in a flash I saw it. I saw my oneness with Christ. I saw that I was in Him, and that when He died I died. I saw that the question of my death was a matter of the past and not of the future, and that I was just as truly dead as He was because I was in Him when He died. The whole thing had dawned upon me. I was carried away with such joy at this great discovery that I jumped from my chair and cried, 'Praise the Lord, I am dead!' I ran downstairs and met one of the brothers helping in the kitchen and I laid hold of him. 'Brother', I said, 'do you know that I have died?' I must admit he looked puzzled. 'What do you mean?' he said, so I went on: 'Do you not know that Christ has died? Do you not know that I died with Him? Do you not know that my death is no less truly a fact than His?' Oh it was so real to me! I longed to go through the streets of Shanghai shouting the news of my discovery. From that day to this I have never for one moment doubted the finality of that word: "I have been crucified with Christ".

I do not mean to say that we need not work that out. Yes, there is an outworking of the death which we are going to see presently, but this, first of all, is the basis of it. I have been crucified: it has been done.

What, then, is the secret of reckoning? To put it in one word, it is revelation. We need revelation from God Himself (Matt. 16:17; Eph. 1:17,18). We need to have our eyes opened to the fact of our union with Christ, and that is something more than knowing it as a doctrine. Such revelation is no vague, indefinite thing. Most of us can remember the day when we saw clearly that Christ died for us, and we ought to be equally clear as to the time when we saw that we died with Christ. It should be nothing hazy, but very definite, for it is with this as basis that we shall go on. It is not that I reckon myself to be dead, and therefore I will be dead. It is that, because I am dead -- because I see now what God has done with me in Christ -- therefore I reckon myself to be dead. That is the right kind of reckoning. It is not reckoning toward death but from death.."

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=article&aid=1924


C
Christinyou

How wonderful to see the Power of Christ in our brethren, the full confirmation of the Life God intended us to have from before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:3-7 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

In Christ, by His Grace through His Faith:

Phillip

S
sscr01

"Moreover also I gave them my Sabbaths, to be a SIGN between me and them, that they might know that I AM the Lord that sanctify them." Ezek 20:12.

"Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned Mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and the profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have hid their eyes from My Sabbaths, and I AM PROFANED AMONG THEM...therefore, have I poured out My indignation upon them; I have consumed them with the fire of My wrath: their own way have I recompensed upon their heads, saith the Lord God." Ezek 22:26,31.

Jesus said, "Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called least in the Kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the Kingdom of heaven." Mt 5:19.

"For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For He that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law." Ja 2:10,11.

"And the Dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, WHICH KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." Rev 12:17.

"Here is the patience of THE SAINTS: HERE ARE THEY THAT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD, AND THE FAITH OF JESUS." Rev 14:12

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

He is, only, Lord, to those who obey Him.

C
crsschk

sscr01,

Brother, a challenge for you. Read through this link (it's actually a small book) in regards to this whole subject matter. Found it very explanatory. Read it if you can unbiased. I did so as I have not really given a great deal of thought to the whole subject in some time. To be honest think I had some of my own misconceptions and subtly wondered if I was not in some way in disobedience to the commandment.

It is geared towards Adventists but that doesn't in any way negate the issue and that is ultimately larger than the Sabbath issue anyway. The larger issue is in regards to how we understand the "law", the "covenants" and the gospel, where we stand now. I encourage you brother to take it all in and consider.

Some excerpts;

[i]The stone laws were glorious, 'so that the children of Israel could not steadfastly [47] behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance' (vs. 7). This was when he came down with the tables of the law in his hands. And it is also the 'ministration of death,' because death followed its violation.


No Sabbatarian, therefore, keeps "the law," "the law of God," or "the law of the Lord"; for if he did he would offer sacrifices, be circumcised, and live exactly like the Jews. So all their talk about "keeping the law" amounts to nothing, for none of them do it. In their at tempt to keep a part of that law they thereby bring them selves under obligations to "keep the whole law," as Paul argues in Gal. 5:3. But as none of them keep the whole law, they bring themselves under the curse of the law, by constantly violating one part while attempting to keep another. This is the very point that Paul made against Judaizing legalists of his day (see Gal. 3:10). The person who keeps one precept of the law just because the law says so, thereby acknowledges that the law is binding on him. Then if he neglects some other part of the law, e thereby becomes a transgressor of the very law he professes to keep. This is exactly what Sabbatarians do. They keep the Sabbath because the law says so and thereby become "debtors to do the whole law" (Gal. 5:3). Then they neglect many things in the same law, and so are under the condemnation of the law (Gal. 3:10). But we "are dead to the law," "not under the law," "but under grace"—the New Testament.

In Heb. 10:28 it is said that "he that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses." Persons were put to death for violating the Decalog (see Deut. 17:6). They were put to death for breaking the Sabbath (Exod. 31:14), blasphemy, theft, and the like. Hence the Decalog is included in "the law of Moses."


There are no promises of future rewards, nor threatenings of future punishments, in all the Mosaic law. Every careful student of that law must be aware of this feature of it. The reason is clear. It was a national, temporal law, given for a national, temporal purpose. As a sample of all, see Deut. 28:1 19. If they keep the law, they shall be blessed in children, in goods, in cattle, in health, etc. If they disobey, they shall be cursed in all these. Stoning to death was the penalty for theft, murder, Sabbath breaking, etc. Hence it was the "ministration of death written and engraver in stones" (2 Cor. 3:7), and "is done away" (vs. 11).

Adam "sinned" long before that law was given (see Rom. 5:12 14). Cain sinned (Gen. 4:7). The Sodomites were "sinners (Gen. 13:13), and vexed Lot with their unlawful deeds" (2 Pet. 2:8). Surely none of these violated [65] "the law," which was not given till Moses. To say that they must have violated the principles of that law is not to the point. When the Jews killed Stephen (Acts 7:59), they violated the principles of the law of Michigan which forbids murder; but did they violate the "law of Michigan" ? No; for it was not given for eighteen hundred years after, and they were not under it anyway. So neither Adam, nor the Sodomites could have transgressed the law of Sinai, for it was not yet given. Abraham kept God's laws (Gen. 26:5), but surely not "the law which was four hundred and thirty years after" (Gal. 3:17). All this clearly shows that God had a law before the code of Sinai was given.[/i]


(Had written this out earlier; Logical issues with the 'day', (spanning the globe and times of the setting sun), the consistent pointing back to Sinai and to that which was given in Egypt and to Israel, right on through to all that is spoken of the 'law' and the 'tablets' and all the notations regarding 'covenants' and especially of those done away with in Christ Jesus. All these things and more are brought forth as a compelling argument and challenge if the whole of it could but be read through unbiased and honestly. Even just one aspect stands out predominantly, the notice of great difficulty and contradiction;

To be consistent, the sabbath breakers are to be stoned to [i]death[/i]. If the keeping of the sabbath is still present and enforceable so is it's penalty. Why is the former kept and the latter left undone? Is there not an obligation and a duty?) (This is noted later on that the Adventist would say that the penalty is done away with at the cross, but that also proves to be problematic)


[i]Adventists make a great ado over the absurdity of the idea that God should abolish his law at the cross and then immediately reenact nine tenths of it. They say, "As well cut off your ten fingers to get rid of one bad one, and then stick nine on again." So they go on with a whole jumble of absurdities involved in the position that God's moral law was abolished at the cross and a new one given. But this is only a man of straw of their own making, hence easily demolished. We hold no such absurd position. But the Mosaic law from Sinai was only a national one founded upon the principles of God's moral law. Even while it existed it did not supersede God's higher law; and when it ended, it in no way affected God's law, which continued right on, unchanged and unchangeable. To illustrate: The State law of Michigan forbids murder, theft, and adultery. In these items it is founded upon God's moral law. Now abolish the law of Michigan. Does that abolish God's law? No. So with the state law of Israel. Neither its enactment on Sinai nor its abolition at the cross in any way changed God's great moral law by which he will judge the world. The Adventist absurdity grows out of their own false theory, that is all. The particular wording of the law as adapted to the Jewish age was "the letter" or "form" of the law for the time being. If a Jew loved God with all his heart, he obediently circumcised his sons, offered burnt sacrifices, paid tithes, kept the Passover, the new moons, the Sabbath, and attended the temple worship, for this was "the law of the Lord" (2 Chron. 31:3; Luke 2:22 27). But if a Christian loves God he will be baptized (Acts 2:38) take the Lord's Supper (1 Cor. 11:24) wash the saints' feet (John 13:1 16; 1 Tim. 5:10); attend meetings (Heb. 10:25); and observe the law of Christ, which is much different from the law the Jews observed. Hence "there is made of necessity a change also of the law" (Heb. 7:12). Those who make the mere letter of the Jewish law an iron rule, and contend for the exact wording under all circumstances and in all ages, miss the spirit of the gospel, and are in bondage [68] to a system out of date (Gal. 3:19 25; 4:21 25; 6:1 3, 13, 14; 2 Cor. 3:3 15).[/i]


[url=http://www.churchofgodcarmichael.org/sabbath/sabbframeset.html]The Sabbath and the Lord's Day[/url]

C
Christinyou

Quote:

"He is, only, Lord, to those who obey Him."

Then obey Him. You are not justified by the works of the Law. This includes the seventh day Sabbath, He is now our Sabbath Rest, and justification.

Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

For we now have the mind of Christ. 1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.


Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

In Christ: Phillip

I
InTheLight

sscr01,

I would also encourage you to read the following testimony of Greg Taylor, a former Adventist pastor, please prayerfully consider what he has to say. You will notice at the end of the testimony he takes a good look at most of the Scriptures you have quoted.

[url=http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Testimonies/Taylor/tabid/66/Default.aspx]Greg Taylor testimony[/url]

In Christ,

Ron

S
sermonindex

For any who might be interested the following link is to an article on The Believers Sabbath: http://www.soundofgrace.com/jgr/index076.htm

S
sermonindex

[u][b]Psalm 2[/b][/u]

[b]Why do the nations conspire,
and the peoples plot in vain?

The kings of the earth set themselves,
and the rulers take counsel together,
against YHVH and his anointed, saying,
[u]"Let us burst their bonds asunder,
and cast their cords from us."[/u]

He who sits in the heavens laughs;
YHVH has them in derision.

Then he will speak to them in his wrath,
and terrify them in his fury, saying,

"I have set my king
on Zion, my holy hill."

I will tell of the decree of YHVH:
He said to me, "You are my son,
today I have begotten you.

Ask of me, and I will make the nations your heritage,
and the ends of the earth your possession.

You shall break them with a rod of iron,
and dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel."

Now therefore, O kings, be wise;
be warned, O rulers of the earth.

Serve YHVH with fear,
with trembling
kiss his feet,

lest he be angry, and you perish in the way;
for his wrath is quickly kindled.

Blessed are all who take refuge in him.[/b]
____________________

Stephen

C
crsschk

I would also encourage you to read the following testimony of Greg Taylor, a former Adventist pastor, please prayerfully consider what he has to say. You will notice at the end of the testimony he takes a good look at most of the Scriptures you have quoted.

[url=http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Testimonies/Taylor/tabid/66/Default.aspx]Greg Taylor testimony[/url]

Always more ... endearing hearing it from someone who has a great deal of first hand experience.

R
RevBenjamin

Paragraphing from the below link, I would like to bring a most unfortunate comment to the forefront.

If Israel had accepted Jesus as Messiah at His first appearing, we would have no Cross, no forgiveness of sin based upon the shed Blood of Christ, No Church, no longer Jew, no longer Gentile but one New Man, breaking down that wall that was between, being the Body of Christ.

The Lamb of God from the foundation of the world is Christ crucified.

Did the Cross negate the promises to Israel...God forbid. The Risen Christ in all His Glory will fulfill these future events and promises.


Quoting from article:

Now that the message of the Bible on the Sabbath had been studied and the teaching clear to my mind, there were some sticking points that seemed to contradict this consistent theme. One example was the statement that in the new earth we will be keeping Sabbath. So I went to that passage to read it for myself and found out a few interesting things. One, it says that the celebrations will be "from one NEW MOON to another and from one Sabbath to another." (Isa. 66:22-23) Does this mean that New Moon festivals should be kept today? Are they still binding? Then I noticed the next couple of verses talk about the inhabitants walking about and encountering the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against the Lord. That didn't sound like the new earth. Then, in reading the larger context of the same vision, it says "for the child will die one hundred years old." (Isa. 65:20) What a strange picture of heaven! The reason it sounds so strange is because the "New Heavens and New Earth" that Isaiah is talking about is not the New Earth of Revelation where "there will be no more death or sorrow or crying." Instead, it is describing Isaiah's picture of what the earth would be like if Israel had accepted the Messiah and become the center attraction of the world. People would have come to Israel to see what their God had done. They would have joined Israel in worship and God's blessings would have made this "New Jerusalem" the center of the world. This prediction was one of those prophecies that was conditional on the acceptance of the Messiah. Since Israel rejected the Messiah, it was not fulfilled.

This misunderstanding is most unfortunate in our Churches today.


Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

J
jayyou

Hi brothers and sisters,

Our dear brother Crsschk posted a message in regard the sabbath and Sdas.

Please allow me comment on a couple of things He said.

Quote:"""No Sabbatarian, therefore, keeps "the law," "the law of God," or "the law of the Lord"; for if he did he would offer sacrifices, be circumcised, and live exactly like the Jews.""""

We Sabbatarians keep the whole of the Ten Comandments, but

Why we do not offer Animal sacrifices anymore?

Daniel 9:27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; But in the middle of the week He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.

Daniel told us that animal sacrifices would cease....

but we are offering sacrifices to God Daily.

Hebrews 13:15-16 Therefore by Him let us continually offer the sacrifice of praise to God, that is, the fruit of our lips, giving thanks to His name. 16 But do not forget to do good and to share, for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.


We all know that the animal sacrifices offered before Christ pointed to Him, the Holy Lamb of God that would take away our sins.

The whole of the book of Hebrews talks about why we do not need to offer animal sacrifices anymore.

Hebrews 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.

+++++++++++++

About Circumcision, well I will just quote what Paul said.


1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.


Here we have Paul clearly saying that what really matters is to keep God's commandments, if what you said is right dear brother Paul would have said that Circumcision and the commandments of God are nothing.....

======

Question, Why Paul was never persecuted for breaking the Sabbath?

How come there is nothing in the bible saying that Someone at least hinted that Paul broke the Sabbath law, isn't that strange?

=======

Quote: """" They keep the Sabbath because the law says so and thereby become "debtors to do the whole law""""

So, what is the solution to this problem?

for Either you keep the whole law or you get rid of the whole thing, Which one is it?

If I understand you, either you keep the whole law, with the sacrifices, circumcision and the moral law, or you get rid of the whole thing, but then you come accros what jesus said.

Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

=============

Quote:""""To be consistent, the sabbath breakers are to be stoned to death. If the keeping of the sabbath is still present and enforceable so is it's penalty. Why is the former kept and the latter left undone? Is there not an obligation and a duty?) (This is noted later on that the Adventist would say that the penalty is done away with at the cross, but that also proves to be problematic)""""


James addressed this issue of the ministration of Death, that you mentioned before.

when we talk about the commandments.

Paul said this.

Romans 13:9 For the commandments, "You shall not commit adultery," "You shall not murder," "You shall not steal," "You shall not bear false witness," "You shall not covet," and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Paul just mentioned half of the ten commandments and He summed up these commandments as in

You shall love your neighbor as yourself.

but here james said.


James 2:8-12 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.


James clearly said that those who observe these commandments, verse 12, will be judged by the law of Liberty.

If we break the law we will not be punished by death anymore because we are now under grace, we can choose to obey or not to obey but one day we will be judged by this law. The law of liberty....

========

In your last paragraph I would like to just make one comment.

quote:""""" But if a Christian loves God he will be baptized (Acts 2:38) take the Lord's Supper (1 Cor. 11:24) wash the saints' feet (John 13:1 16; 1 Tim. 5:10); attend meetings (Heb. 10:25); and observe the law of Christ, which is much different from the law the Jews observed.""""

You were very good here, but I must disagree with your last statement.

I do not believe that Jesus has a different law apart from His Father's law.

This is God's law.

Exodus 34:28 And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

The Ten commandments is described here as the words of the Covenant.

Remember there is an old and a new Covenant, but the words never changed....

Deuteronomy 9:10 "Then the LORD delivered to me two tablets of stone written with the finger of God,

Nowhere in the bible Jesus invalidated any of God's commandments for He is One with God, He in fact magnified some commandments, as an example we can commit adultery in the heart but the principle remains, it is still adultery.

He also gave commandments, but nothing that would contradict any of the other commandments.

John 13:34 "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

Matthew 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.


Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.


Here clearly it says those who keeps God's commandments...

You will say what are God's commandments ?

Nehemiah clears it all up for us.

Nehemiah 10:29 these joined with their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse and an oath to walk in God's Law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and His ordinances and His statutes:


Note here that Nehemiah talks about three things.

Commandments,
Ordinances,
Statutes,

and Paul said that Jesus nailed to the Cross the Handwriting with ordinances.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


In case you mention

Colossians 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,


this is what God had to say about these.

Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, Her feast days, Her New Moons, Her Sabbaths -- All her appointed feasts.


Isaiah 1:13-14 Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies -- I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting. 14 Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates;


The sabbath Seventh Day, was given before sin had even entered in the world.


Lamentations 2:6 The LORD has caused The appointed feasts and Sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion.

And yet we know that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.
==========

I am not trying to convicen anybody of anything, I just thought that I should post a response in defence of the reply that our dear brother posted here.


I will close with a last bible text....

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

and remember if you are in doubt as to what are God's commandments here is what Nehemiah said again.


Nehemiah 10:29 these joined with their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse and an oath to walk in God's Law, which was given by Moses the servant of God, and to observe and do all the commandments of the LORD our Lord, and His ordinances and His statutes:


God bless us all and that the Holy Spirit may open our eyes to the truths of God's words.

S
sscr01

The Sabbath days were included in the ceremonial law, which, was fulfilled in the sacrifice of Jesus. This is not the same as the seventh day Sabbath, included in the Ten Commandment Covenant.

Our Creator sanctified and blessed the seventh day Sabbath at Creation - before the law was given. Later, He made it part of His Covenant.

There was, only, one Covenant in The Ark - The Ten Commandments.

Even in heaven, the Lord makes quite a statement about His Covenant: "And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in His temple, The Ark of His Testament: and there were LIGHTNINGS, and VOICES, and THUNDERINGS, and AN EARTHQUAKE, and GREAT HAIL." Rev 11:19.

When Moses disobeyed the Lord and struck the rock, God charged him with unbelief. Num 20:12. When the children of Israel disobeyed the Lord, they were not able to enter the Promised Land, because of unbelief. Heb 3:19. Jesus did not do many works in Nazareth, because of their unbelief. Mt 13:58. Unbelief comes out of an evil heart. Heb 3:12.

"...he that believeth not God, hath made Him a liar..." 1 John 5:10.

Disobedience=unbelief.

"DO WE THEN MAKE VOID THE LAW THROUGH FAITH? GOD FORBID: YEA,WE ESTABLISH THE LAW." Rom 3:31.

"But now is made manifest, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations FOR THE OBEDIENCE OF FAITH." Rom 16:26.

"BY FAITH ABRAHAM...OBEYED." Heb 11:8.

"Was not Abraham our father (of the faithful) JUSTIFIED BY WORKS when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? SEEST THOU HOW FAITH WROUGHT WITH HIS WORKS, AND BY WORKS WAS FAITH MADE PERFECT?" Ja 2:21,22.

God told Abraham to offer Isaac, and Abraham obeyed Him.

Faith=obedience.

"Abd being made perfect, HE BECAME THE AUTHOR OF ETERNAL SALVATION UNTO ALL THEM THAT OBEY HIM." Heb 5:9.

"Blessed are they that do His commandments, that they may have RIGHT to the tree of life, AND MAY ENTER IN through the gates into the city." Rev 22:14.

Covenants have conditions.

C
crsschk

Hi jayyou,

Just a clarification, those are primarily quotes of the linked article (book) not mine own.

We Sabbatarians keep the whole of the Ten Comandments, but ...

Are you sure brother? But moreover do you need to is the larger question. I do not mean the morally binding matters that are still exemplified and spoken elsewhere but that they were given to Israel as a nation for very specific reasons. Much of this is extrapolated throughout that particular book linked.

[i] "The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day. The Lord talked with you face to face in the mount out of' the midst of the fire, . . . saying, I am the Lord thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.... Keep the Sabbath Day to sanctify it, as the Lord thy God hath commanded thee. Six days thou shalt labor, and do all thy work: but the seventh! day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man servant, nor thy maid servant, nor thine ox, nor thine ass, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; . . . And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the Sabbath." "These words the Lord spake unto all your assembly.... And he wrote them in two tables of stone" (Deut. 5:2 15, 22).

This is the Sabbath commandment as enjoined in the decalog. Saturday keepers contend that this command is obligatory upon all nations and even upon angels in heaven; but a careful reading of the foregoing will show that it was given only to the Jews, to the children of Israel. It was but a Jewish institution. This covenant enjoining the seventh day Sabbath Moses declares was not made with their fathers (the patriarchs), nor with Gentiles, nor with angels in heaven, "but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day."

It was made with the children of Israel only. It applied only to them. "I am the Lord thy God which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house [20] of bondage." [/i]

You only touched on one aspect there regarding animal sacrifices. But you yourself are not an Israelite are you? Nor were you brought out of Egypt, out of that bondage. Much more could be said.

About Circumcision, well I will just quote what Paul said.


1 Corinthians 7:19 Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.


Here we have Paul clearly saying that what really matters is to keep God's commandments, if what you said is right dear brother Paul would have said that Circumcision and the commandments of God are nothing.....

This is confusing the matter. If circumcision was a commandment still in force then why would he contradict himself by saying that it is "nothing" and at the same time state that "keeping the commandments of God is what matters". ?

To go through all these one by one could be tedious. What keeps coming back is certainly the book of Hebrews.

[i]Heb 7:12 For when there is a change in the priesthood, there is necessarily a change in the law as well.[/i]

[i]Heb 7:18 For on the one hand, a former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness
Heb 7:19 (for the law made nothing perfect); but on the other hand, a better hope is introduced, through which we draw near to God.[/i]

Hate to even prooftext in this way since there is so much context to take into consideration. But it is evident that there is a change in the 'law', a change in the covenant. That which pertained specifically to Israel and all that Paul goes to great lengths to explain.

and Paul said that Jesus nailed to the Cross the Handwriting with ordinances.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;


In case you mention

Colossians 2:16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths,


this is what God had to say about these.

Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, Her feast days, Her New Moons, Her Sabbaths -- All her appointed feasts.

Whoa there brother. That is well out of context jumping backward to Hosea and even if you were to use this as contemporary ... doesn't it negate keeping of the sabbath then?


Isaiah 1:13-14 Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons, the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies -- I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting. 14 Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates;

And this as well? The context of what these passages are spoken in is very important. It seems very strange that you would use these to support sabbath keeping today at any rate.


The sabbath Seventh Day, was given before sin had even entered in the world.


Lamentations 2:6 The LORD has caused The appointed feasts and Sabbaths to be forgotten in Zion.

And yet we know that Jesus is the Lord of the Sabbath.

A long excerpt follows, but give the whole of this book a read brother. Much of what you have here is confusing, you seem to be disproving the case for sabbath keeping with what you bring forth;

[i]"The law having a shadow of good things to come" (Heb. 10:1). The whole law system was but a shadow, containing types and figures of the plan of perfect redemption. Its Passover, atonements, sacrifices, offerings, tabernacle, temple, altars, blood, priests, circumcision, and sabbaths, all belonged to the law of shadows going before.

Among the promises of coming redemption was that of Shiloh—the rest giver (Gen. 49:10). "And his rest shall be glorious" (Isa. 11:10). In fulfillment, Jesus came, [11] saying, "Come unto me . . . and I will give you rest . . . And ye shall find rest unto your souls" (Matt. 11:28; 29). In the law of shadows there must be a type of this sweet and tranquil rest found in redeeming grace. Hence God set apart one day in seven, the seventh, as a "sabbath of rest."

"Sabbath" means "rest." Rest is the sole idea of the term. The law said, "Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the Sabbath of rest" (Exod. 31:15). This is made still clearer in the Septuagint, where it is rendered, "But the seventh day is the Sabbath, a holy rest to the Lord." That sabbath, or rest, was "a shadow of things to come." It reached its fulfilment in Christ, in whom our souls have found an everlasting rest (see Col. 2:14-17; Heb. 4:1-11).

The Sabbath, then, was instituted by God, among the types and shadows of his great redemption. It pointed back to the creation, and forward to Christ, just as the Passover pointed back to Israel's exodus from Egyptian bondage and forward to "Christ our Passover, sacrificed for us." Whether, therefore, the Sabbath was instituted before Moses or not, it belonged to the law of types and shadows. Sacrifices began in the family of Adam, circumcision began with Abraham, yet both were nailed to the cross with all the ordinances of Moses.

But let us investigate, and find just when and where the Sabbath was first enjoined upon man. Saturday keepers lay no small stress upon a supposed pre Mosaic Sabbath. In fact, it is one of their main pillars. Back there in the dim past the events of an age were covered by a few lines in the Bible. Yet "the main reliance of Sabbatarians is upon arguments drawn from those remote times of darkness, while in the New Testament they find little to support their theories, but much to explain away.''

The scholarship of the world is somewhat divided on the subject of a pre Mosaic Sabbath. Much has been written on both sides of the question. In either case it has little bearing on present observance. But since our Sabbatarian friends rely greatly upon a belief in Sabbath observance from Eden, I desire to set before the [12] reader what I sincerely believe to be the truth of the matter. After reading much on both sides of the controversy, I have been led into the settled conviction that the argument for Sabbath observance from Eden down through the Patriarchal age rests upon a very sandy foundation. I shall submit the following proofs against it:

There is not one command in the book of Genesis to keep the seventh day as a Sabbath. In the language of Canright, "There is no statement that any of the patriarchs kept the Sabbath or knew anything about it. Sabbatarians say the record is so brief that it was omitted. Their proof, then, is what was left out!"

The first mention of the Sabbath as a rest day enjoined upon man that is recorded in the Bible is found in Exod. 16:23-30. This was twenty five hundred years after the creation of man. It was a new command to the Jews. On Friday, Moses said to the people, "Tomorrow is a solemn rest, a holy Sabbath unto the Lord" (verse 23, Revised Version). On Saturday, he said, "Today is a Sabbath unto the Lord" (verse 25). "So the people rested on the seventh day" (verse 30). "And the people keep Sabbath on the seventh day" (LXX). This language, with its context, seems to prove that the children of Israel there and then began resting on the seventh day; that the keeping of the Sabbath was a new thing to them. Their deliverance from Egypt marked a new era in their history. At this time the Lord gave them a new year and a new beginning of months. (See Exod. 12:2.) So, also, he for the first time gave them the Sabbath (Exodus 16). Many scriptures teach this fact, a few of which are given below.

"Wherefore I caused them to go forth out of the land of Egypt, and brought them into the wilderness. Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them)' (Ezek. 20:10, 12). This text is conclusive. It simply states that God gave them the Sabbath when he brought them out of Egypt. "I gave them my sabbaths" implies the act of committing it to them, and proves that they did not have it before. It was a new thing to them, and only for them. The place where God gave Israel the Sabbath was: ``the wilderness." It was given as a sign [13] between himself and that nation. So positively teaches the text quoted.

"And remember that thou west a servant in the land of Egypt, and that the Lord thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand, and by a stretched out arm: THEREFORE the Lord thy God commanded thee to keep the Sabbath Day" (Deut. 5:15). God commanded Israel to keep the Sabbath as a memorial of their deliverance from Egypt. Then, they never kept it until the reason existed for keeping it. Thus, it was first enjoined upon them in the wilderness.

The covenant enjoining the seventh day was not made before Moses. "The Lord our God made a covenant with us in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day" (Deut. 5:2, 3). "Then follows a recital of the Ten Commandments, the covenant referred to. So if we are to credit the inspired statement of Moses, we must admit that the law embodying the seventh day Sabbath had never been given to the ancestors of the Jewish nation. Nay, "The Lord made not this covenant with out fathers but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day."

We affirm that every assumption that the Sabbath had been previously given is a direct contradiction of these texts.

"Thou camest down also upon Mount Sinai, and spakest with them from heaven . . . and makest known unto them thy holy Sabbath" (Neh. 9:13, 14). "Though the Sabbath had been introduced a short time before when the manna first fell, it is but natural that Nehemiah should speak of it with the rest of the law, as given on Sinai, by the audible voice of God, . . . and made a statute in Israel. If, then, we credit the testimony of Nehemiah, we trace the origin of that Sabbath to Moses in the wilderness. There is where God came down and gave that law."

I shall now quote from The Sabbath and also from Canright. "Smith and Barnum's Dictionary of the Bible says, 'In Exod. 16:23 29 we find the first incontrovertible institution of the day, as one given to, and to be kept by, the children of Israel. Shortly afterward it was re enacted in the fourth commandment.'[14][/i]

Continued here;
[url=http://www.churchofgodcarmichael.org/sabbath/sabbframeset.html]The Sabbath; When Originated And When First Enjoined Upon Man [/url]

J
jayyou

Dear brother crsschk,

Thank you for you reply.

Please allow me to comment again on your last post.


Quote:"""they were given to Israel as a nation for very specific reasons. """""

Yes you are right brother These laws were given to Israel but there is one problem with this.
======
So were the Covenants that you afirm to be part of, namely New Covenant.

Hebrews 8:8 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah -

======

Now everybody says they are in the new covenant but when it comes to the words of the covenant.

Exodus 34:28 And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Well that is not for me, they are for the Jew.

Correct me if I am wrong but is there a covenant that God gave to us Gentiles or are we partakers of the covenat that was given to Israel and the House of Judah?


and Just to make things even more interesting Paul pretty much said that it is through the righteous requirements of the law that we become an inwardly Jew. what he calls circumcision of the heart, and as he said, if I am an inwardly jew and have circumcision of the heart, Aren't I partaker of the covenants given to Israel?


Romans 2:26-29 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the

righteous requirements of the law,


will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

====

I would like to hear your explanation for Romans 2.

=====


Circumcision.

Quote:"""" If circumcision was a commandment still in force then why would he contradict himself by saying that it is "nothing""""

Dear brother Paul is saying that Circumcision of the flesh is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matter.

why would Paul say that?

because in Romans He shows us how to be circumcised in the Heart, which was something that God wanted from Israel in the first Place.

This is what Paul said.

Romans 2:26-27 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law?


and remember what was said to Israel.

Deuteronomy 10:16 "Therefore circumcise the foreskin of your heart, and be stiff-necked no longer.

Again, Paul was saying the the cirucumcision of the flesh is nothing but keeping the commandments of God is what is important, by keeping the righteous requirements of the law, you Get to become and inwardly jew and have your heart circumcised.

========

Sabbaths

quote: """Whoa there brother. That is well out of context jumping backward to Hosea and even if you were to use this as contemporary ... doesn't it negate keeping of the sabbath then?"""""

======

Why is it out of context?

It is not out of context at all, I posted it that way to show you that the Sabbaths Paul is talking about in Colossians is the appointed feasts.

and Hosea makes a very clearly especified that the feasts days, new moons and sabbaths would cease, and he goes on saying this, All her appointed feasts.

The Seventh Day Sabbath, was given by God at the end of creation, everything was perfect, no sin, no need for a saviour to rescue us from sin. it was not a shadow of things to come. it was a day that God sanctified and he made it holy, some people say that it is just a day like any other, and in fact it is not.

God sanctified it and we are told not to call common something that God sanctified.

This does not negate the keeping of the sabbath at all, it just points that the SAbbaths, that we are not to be judged for if we don't keep them are the Feasts sabbaths, and not the seventh day Sabbath.

=====

Question:

I have explained to you how I as a gentile am partaker of the covenant that was given to israel, please explain to me how do you include yourself in a covenant that was given to Israel and the house of Judah but then you exclude yourself from the words of the covenant, namely, Ten commandments.

for this is what God said:

Hebrews 8:8 "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah --


Thank you brother for spending the time to discuss this, I believe that we can agree in disagree. I would be very interested in learning more about how you see things....


may the peace of our Lord and Saviour rests upon us all.....

Jayme

J
jayyou

Hi again dear brother crsschk,

I have decided to address this question in a different message. Please bear with me.


Quote:""""There is not one command in the book of Genesis to keep the seventh day as a Sabbath. In the language of Canright, "There is no statement that any of the patriarchs kept the Sabbath or knew anything about it. Sabbatarians say the record is so brief that it was omitted. Their proof, then, is what was left out!" """"""


Your text says that there is no record that people kept the Sabbath before Exodus 16, but that doesn't help your argument either. If there is no record it means that for all we know it could have been either way, Right?

Well, we know this.

Genesis 26:5 "because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My charge, My commandments, My statutes, and My laws."

Ok, we know that Abraham kept God's commandments, now I believe the Sabbath was included here, You cannot prove to me that it wasn't but I can say this to you.

Someone most definetly kept the sabbath way before Abraham.

Genesis 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.

Well God for one did.

Now Here we have the account that the Almighty God, creator of it all, Rested on that day and sanctified it and yet we look for human exemple to give us assurance that it was in fact observed.


So your question was.

"""""There is no statement that any of the patriarchs kept the Sabbath or knew anything about it."""""


Oh yes, someone much more important that any human on the whole universe kept and gave us the exemple...


God the Almighty One.

If I were to follow the exemple of anybody, that would be the exemple the God left, nobody else matters.....


and this is what Moses said about the sabbath in regard of God's resting in it.

Exodus 31:17 'It is a sign between Me and the children of Israel forever; for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day He rested and was refreshed.' "

God felt refreshed.

You might say again for the children of Israel, but again Isaiah said this.

Isaiah 56:3 Do not let the son of the foreigner Who has joined himself to the LORD Speak, saying, "The LORD has utterly separated me from His people"


Isaiah 56:6 " Also the sons of the foreigner Who join themselves to the LORD, to serve Him, And to love the name of the LORD, to be His servants -- Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath, And holds fast My covenant --

I for one Am a foreigner(Gentile), but I have joined myself to the Lord to be part of His holy people.


Question,

Is the fourth Commandment still valid for the Jew? If a jew comes to Christ is the SAbbath still binding to Him?


God Bless us all.....

R
RevBenjamin

What absurdity to argue over a day when our foundation, who is Christ, and our faith, in none other than in the death, burial and bodily resurrection of our Lord is at stake.

Adventists were affected by both the Jehovah's Witnesses (who began as Adventists) and the Mormons. The JW's and SDA's both predicted Jesus' return in the early 1870's, denying Jesus' bodily resurrection to allow his spiritual presence. In 1898, SDA's Uriah Smith in his book "Looking Unto Jesus", wrote "With the Son, the evolution of deity, as deity, ceased".

Worse yet, calling Christ an angel, namely Michael the Archangel, and affirming his body dropped off at his ascension, denies He is returning 'in the flesh'. The SDA holds the view He is the Archangel who comes from heaven for his saints.

Here we must note 2 Jn 7 "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who deny Christ is coming in the flesh, this is the deceiver and the antichrist" Scripture attests Jesus' bodily resurrection & ascension, that He'll return 'in like manner', He is the fullness of the Godhead bodily; He is 'the man Christ Jesus' in heaven today. We are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh. When the Lord returns we will be like Him, receiving glorified resurrection bodies.

SDA's make Him an angel, making him to be a spirit, and denies He's coming in the flesh, which makes their teaching both false, and worse yet, anti Christ-against Christ Himself.

What is of more importance here, a day?

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin

C
crsschk

[i]That this reasoning is incorrect and the whole argument unsound I shall now proceed to show.

1. The Book of Genesis, including these words, was not written at the time of the creation of man, but twentyfive hundred years later, by Moses himself. In fact, this statement of Moses' in Gen. 2:2, 3 was not written until after the covenant enjoining the seventh day Sabbath upon the Jews had been delivered upon Sinai.

2. The language clearly proves that God did not bless and sanctify the day back at Eden when he rested, but at a later date. "And he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it He had rested from all his work which God created and made." He blessed and sanctified the day "because in it HE HAD rested." He rested back in Eden. But God's rest did not make the day holy. It was not holy in itself. Twentyfive hundred years later God in the wilderness blessed and sanctified the seventh day as a holy day to the Jewish nation, and assigned as one reason for doing so that "in it he had rested." After God blessed and sanctified the day in the wilderness, Moses wrote the book of Genesis; and in writing the account of the creation he said that God began resting on the seventh day from all his work, and that the same day on which God had rested he now [17] sanctified and blessed. Here again the inspired Word points to the wilderness for the institution of the Sabbath.

"As this narrative, i. e., Gen. 2:2, 3, was composed after the delivery of the law, for their special instruction, so this passage was only intended to confirm more forcibly I that institution; or that it is to be understood as if Moses had said, 'God rested on the seventh day, which he has since blessed and sanctified.' "—Kitto's Cyclopedia of Biblical Literature. To this we say amen. The language of Genesis II cannot be understood in any other light, unless the text is wrested.

"As the seventh day was erected into a Sabbath, on account of God's resting upon that day from the work of creation, it was but natural enough in the historian, when he had related the history of the creation, and of God's ceasing from it on the seventh day, to add, 'And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it, because that on it he had rested from all his work which God created and made'; although the blessing and sanctification, that is, the religious distinction and appropriation of that day, were not made till many ages after. The words do not assert that God then blessed and sanctified the seventh day, but that he blessed and sanctified it for that reason.'' Paley: Moral and Political Philosophy, Book IV, ch. 7.

On this point I quote the following from Canright:

"As Moses wrote his books after he came to Sinai, after the Sabbath had been given in the wilderness, he here mentions one reason why God thus gave them the seventh day, viz.: because God himself had set the example at creation; had worked six days and rested the seventh. Such use of language is common. We say General Grant was born at such a time. We do not mean that he was a general then, but we mention it by anticipation, using a title which he afterwards bore. So in Gen. 3:20, 'Adam called his wife's name Eve, because she was the mother of all living.' Here is a future fact stated as though it had already occurred. So 1 Sam. 4 :1, the Jews 'pitched beside Eben ezer.' But the place was not named Ebenezer till years after (1 Sam. 7:12). 'Judas Iscariot, which also was the traitor' (Luke 6:16). Here a future fact with regard to Judas is mentioned when he is first spoken [18] of, though the act of betrayal did not take place till years later. Just so when the seventh day is first mentioned, its sanctification is referred to, though it did not occur till afterwards."

3. "Though the record from Adam to Moses covers a period of twenty five hundred years; though we appear to have a full account of the religious customs and worship of the patriarchs, such as Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, etc., though we are told about circumcision, the altar, the sacrifices, the priests, the tithe, the oath, marriage, feast days, etc.; yet never a word is said about anyone keeping the Sabbath."—Canright.

The first mention of the Sabbath's being kept by anyone is recorded in Exodus 16. It began with Moses and was instituted in the wilderness. To go back of Moses for proof in favor of Saturday keeping is going outside the Bible, into the fogs and mists of speculation and darkness.[/i]

http://www.churchofgodcarmichael.org/sabbath/sabbframeset.html

Brother, it is difficult to go knee deep into all this especially if we were to continue jumping back and forth ... Maybe I need to rephrase and clarify that ... Unfortunately I don't have the wherewithal (time mainly) to answer each and every question you put forth. Just as well, I am not all that versed on this specifically anyway, hence my appeal to others more studied on the matter. Guess I would just present the same challenge, to just read through the whole of it, unbiased as you can (recognize that difficulty) and see if it doesn't present some thinking and further study.

Found it helpful in more ways than one, that is beyond the matter of the sabbath, as mentioned earlier on to matters of the law and covenants in general and so forth. It is a great deal to absorb and am, still processing it, in fact still have the last couple of chapters to yet finish.

The things that are striking and up in the contemplation are;

"out of Egypt" (The repetition in so many verses)

"The tablets" (And the correlations brought to bear between the testaments, Paul's reasoning for instance)

"The veil" (Again similar, Moses and Paul's "Taken away")

Again, Hebrews looms large as does Romans and of course all the other excerpts being used in Colossians and so forth.

There is a very good post around here that Philologos penned some time back that is also very helpful in understanding all this. Will see if I can dig it back up for even more consideration.

S
sscr01

Elohiym, Our Creator, and the Triune God, sanctified and blessed the seventh day Sabbath at Creation,long before, there was a Jewish nation.

There is no Scripture in the Bible, that, says, He changed, or abolished the Sabbath.

A sign of The Antichrist is "...he thinks to change times and laws." Dan 7:25. There is, only, one time mentioned in His Covenant - the Sabbath.

The Catholic Church says:

"Question.-Have you any other way of proving that the church has the power to institute festivals of precept?"

"Answer.-Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her,-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday the seventh day, A CHANGE FOR WHICH THERE IS NO SCRIPTURAL AUTHORITY." -Rev. Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism, p. 174.

The "Mother of Harlots" changed the day to Sunday.

Sunday is called, "The Lord's Day" in sun worship. Jesus referred to Himself, as "The Lord of the Sabbath." Mt 12:8;Mk 2:28;Lu 6:5.

Some have said, that, the disciples met on the first day as seen in Acts 20:7. In the Greek, this passage reads,"And the one of the Sabbaths, having been assembled the disciples to break bread, Paul reasoned to them, being about to depart on the morrow."

Paul spoke to them past the sundown of the Sabbath into the first day of the week.

The children of Israel, Jesus, His disciples, and the New Testament Christians kept the Sabbath.

If you think, that, the Sabbath is obsolete, then, you are rejecting the prophecy of the Lord Jesus Christ:

He said, "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the Sabbath day. For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Mt 24:20,21

FROM THE MOUTH OF THE LORD JESUS CHRIST, HIMSELF, THE SABBATH IS NOT OBSOLETE.

True faith is obedient to the Word of God. Rom 16:26.

R
RevBenjamin

Mr.sscr01,

May I ask you a question? Do the Angels keep the sabbath? If so, how? Is it according to our time clock of a 24 hour day? What time zone do they keep?

Is this Sabbath the same as the 4th Commandment of the 10 Commandments, or another?

Are Angels also subject to the 10 Commandments?

R.G. Benjamin

Z
Zionshield

quote "There is no Scripture in the Bible, that, says, He changed, or abolished the Sabbath"

Not only the Sabbath, but "all of the ordinances that were against us were taken out of the way, nailed to the cross" (see Col. 2:14) which is why no man should as it says in vs.16 "judge me in respect of the Sabbath".

You are picking what scriptures fit your view and leaving out others. You speak as though we are under the law. "Tell me, you that wish to be under the law, do you not hear the law?" (Gal.4:21)

"I through the law am DEAD to the law, that I might live unto God". Gal. 2:19 and the law only has dominion over a man as long as he lives (Romans 7:1) "We are dead to the law by the body of Christ...." in vs.4.

What does it mean to be dead to the law? Can I be dead to the law and still keep a sabbath day which is of the law?

How can you say what you do in light of these truths? Consider the context of all the verses you are using...you must consider who they were spoken to, by who, when they were given.

In matthew 24 Jesus is talking to jews that still hold the sabbath.

The commandments Jesus refers to are not the same as the 10 commandments for we died to the law (the 10 commandments) that we may belong to Another.(vs.4)

The righteousness of the law is fulfilled in us as we walk after the Spirit...obeying Him (His commands through the Spirit)Rom.8:4

The law was a schoolmaster to bring us to Christ (Gal.2:24) until we received the adoption as sons (4:5) Here in enters the Spirit of Christ whom we obey. The Spirit of adoption whereby we cry Abba....not the spirit of bondage again to fear (Romans8:15) like when we were in bondage to the elements of this world (Gal.4:3)observing days, months, times and years (vs.9-10) meat, drink, holydays, new moon or the sabbath (col.2:16) meats, drinks, carnal ordinances (Heb.9:10) Are you dead with Christ from the rudiments of the world? Then why do you want to be subject to such things? Why do you want to be under the law after being justified by faith? All these things were a shadow of what was to come (Col.2:17) The law was a shadow of things to come. (heb.10:1)

The law is spiritual as it says in Romans. Sure, it is summed up by the 1st 2 commands...good luck fulfilling those in the flesh by the law (in your own strength) No, it is by faith. The Spirit produces His fruit as we daily through the cross lay ourselves down. We walk in the Spirit and do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh...if we walk after the law (includes the Sabbath)we can be certain that the works of the flesh will be there.

C
Christinyou

Is this the biblical Sabbath that you are keeping?

A Typical Shabbat
At about 2PM or 3PM on Friday afternoon, observant Jews leave the office to begin Shabbat preparations. The mood is much like preparing for the arrival of a special, beloved guest: the house is cleaned, the family bathes and dresses up, the best dishes and tableware are set, a festive meal is prepared. In addition, everything that cannot be done during Shabbat must be set up in advance: lights and appliances must be set (or timers placed on them, if the household does so), the light bulb in the refrigerator must be removed or unscrewed, so it does not turn on when you open it, and preparations for the remaining Shabbat meals must be made.

Shabbat, like all Jewish days, begins at sunset, because in the story of creation in Genesis Ch. 1, you will notice that it says, "And there was evening, and there was morning, one day." From this, we infer that a day begins with evening, that is, sunset. For the precise time when Shabbat begins and ends in your area, consult the list of candle lighting times provided by the Orthodox Union, by Chabad or by any Jewish calendar.

Shabbat candles are lit and a blessing is recited no later than eighteen minutes before sunset. This ritual, performed by the woman of the house, officially marks the beginning of Shabbat. Two candles are lit, representing the two commandments: zakhor (remember) and shamor (observe), discussed above.

The family then attends a brief evening service (45 minutes - that's brief by Jewish standards - see Jewish Liturgy).

After services, the family comes home for a festive, leisurely dinner. Before dinner, the man of the house recites Kiddush, a prayer over wine sanctifying Shabbat. The usual prayer for eating bread is recited over two loaves of challah, a sweet, eggy bread shaped in a braid. The family then eats dinner. Although there are no specific requirements or customs regarding what to eat, meals are generally stewed or slow cooked items, because of the prohibition against cooking during Shabbat. (Things that are mostly cooked before Shabbat and then reheated or kept warm are OK).

After dinner, the birkat ha-mazon (grace after meals) is recited. Although this is done every day, on Shabbat, it is done in a leisurely manner with many upbeat tunes.

By the time all of this is completed, it may be 9PM or later. The family has an hour or two to talk or study Torah, and then go to sleep.

The next morning Shabbat services begin around 9AM and continue until about noon. After services, the family says kiddush again and has another leisurely, festive meal. A typical afternoon meal is cholent, a very slowly cooked stew. My recipe is below. By the time birkat ha-mazon is done, it is about 2PM. The family studies Torah for a while, talks, takes an afternoon walk, plays some checkers, or engages in other leisure activities. A short afternoon nap is not uncommon. It is traditional to have a third meal before Shabbat is over. This is usually a light meal in the late afternoon.

Shabbat ends at nightfall, when three stars are visible, approximately 40 minutes after sunset. At the conclusion of Shabbat, the family performs a concluding ritual called Havdalah (separation, division). Blessings are recited over wine, spices and candles. Then a blessing is recited regarding the division between the sacred and the secular, between Shabbat and the working days, etc. For details, see Havdalah Home Ritual.

As you can see, Shabbat is a very full day when it is properly observed, and very relaxing. You really don't miss being unable to turn on the TV, drive a car or go shopping.

Then in keeping the Sabbath are you doing it this way, if not you are not keeping it correctly and shall die.

HOW TO KEEP THE SABBATH

What Is required in keeping the Sabbath according to Mosaic Law:

1. No work done at all (Ex. 20: 10; Lev. 23: 3; Jer. 17:21-22). No watering the lawn, no working in the yard, no hobbies, no surfing, no fixing flat tires, etc. By law if a person did not stop all types of activity in honor of the Sabbath, he was breaking the law. In Numbers 15:32-36 a man was caught collecting sticks on the Sabbath, and he received a rock concert from the people he knew.

2 No kindling of a fire (Ex. 35:3). No fellowship cookouts or barbecues. You can't go into a restaurant and get a hamburger that's been flame broiled, you can't cook eggs, or pancakes in the morning because you'd be kindling a fire for cooking. To drive a car would be to "kindle a fire" In the combustion chamber of your engine.

3. No traveling (Ex. 16:29). Later the Jews added to this law, allowing only a half mile of travel on the Sabbath which we see observed in the NT. But the pure law says "stay at home." Actually, If you kept this part of the law, you could not travel to your church gathering unless it was less than one-quarter mile away from home. If you had an emergency you could not drive to the hospital.

4. No trading (Amos 8:5). If you happened to need gas to get to church service, you could not "trade" money for gasoline. You would not be allowed to buy a cassette tape of that morning's message or a book at the store. There is to be No exchanging of money for goods. If you worked with stocks and you needed to sell you couldn’t.

5. No marketing (Neh. 10:31; 13:15,19). Make sure you do no shopping whatsoever. You can't buy any ice cream for dessert after dinner or anything else. If you run out of food or drink at home you can’t go out to purchase any, you can’t even by a stick of gum.

6."... a holy assembly with double the daily offering along with the other offerings. In other words, you are to give twice as much on the Sabbath (Num. 28:9).Do we practiced this today In compliance with Old Testament law. Do Sabbatarian's really practice the law? I have yet to see people go to Shabbat and give twice as much each week.

7. New showbread In the holy place (Lev. 24:8). Of course this cannot be done today since there is no temple, so this part of the Sabbath cannot be followed by the church. The fact Is the Sabbath was not made for the gentiles, but for the Jews and their generations Ex. 31:12-17). It's a law given between God and the Jews.

8.The last part of the requirements for keeping the Sabbath day law Is the penalty for breaking It. DEATH

(adapted from B. Stonebrakers trac Sabbath breakers)

God instructed how the Sabbath was to be observed: Do Sabbatarian's abide by all these laws?

THESE ARE THE CONDITIONS FOR SOMEONE TO BE PUT TO DEATH.

Lev 16:2 7.Unauthorized entrance into the holy place of the tabernacle:

Lev.20:1, 2 -- Sacrificing their children to Molech (abortion, killing infants) this was a heathen divinity of the Ammonites.

v.6 If one goes to Mediums and familiar spirits.

v.9 Curses at one's parents.

v.10 Commits adultery.

v.12 'If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall surely be put to death.

v.13 Homosexuality, a man lying another man.

v.14 Marries a woman and her mother.

v.15, 16 Men or women having sex with animals. both man and beast are to be killed.

v.16 'And whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD

v.27 If one is a medium, or a witch or one who practices the occult. ( astrology, talking to the dead, predicting the future)

Lev. 24:21 'And whoever kills an animal shall restore it; but whoever kills a man shall be put to death.

Ex. 12:12-13,19 those who do not keep the feast of unleaven bread and the Sabbath Ex.31:14 are cut off for violation of both days. The Death penalty

Exod. 19:12-13 or touching the mount Horeb:

Exod. 21:12 If a man kills another he is to die 15 "And he who strikes his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.16"He who kidnaps a man and sells him, or if he is found in his hand, shall surely be put to death.17"And he who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death.'

v.22 "If men fight, and hurt a woman with child, so that she gives birth prematurely, and the baby dies he will give life for life.

Deut. 13:5 One who leads people to other Gods by prophecy or dreams.

Deut.17:12-13 For disobeying ceremonial commands of any Priest.

1 Sam 6:19 For looking into the Ark; For touching the Ark: 2 Sam 6:7 3.Aaron's sons, (Nadab and Abihu) priests were killed for violating ceremonial law when offering incense to Yahweh.

how many days are you to work and rest?

Lev. 23:3 "Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings."

Deut. 5:12-14 "Observe the Sabbath day, to keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall not do any work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates, that your manservant and your maidservant may rest as well as you." If you have any friends over that are not Christian they must observe the rest day also.

Also Remember there is to be no traveling (Ex. 16:29) No trading no buying (Amos 8:5). Not only does it affect your household but in Exod. 16:23 Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD has said: 'Tomorrow is a Sabbath rest, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake today, and boil what you will boil; and lay up for yourselves all that remains, to be kept until morning.'" Since you are not allowed to trade or buy you can't cook either it must be done the day before.

Now lets look at the penalty for breaking the Sabbath and apply what we now know to rightly observing it.

Num. 15:32-35 "Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him. Then the LORD said to Moses, "The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp."

Exod 31:14-15 "You shall keep the Sabbath, therefore, for it is holy to you. Everyone who profanes it shall surely be put to death; for whoever does any work on it, that person shall be cut off from among his people. 'Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." (also Num. 15:32-36).

Exod. 35:2 "Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD. Whoever does any work on it shall be put to death." You cannot separate the punishment from the breaking of the law,

Here's a good question, Do you or your congregation work for 6 days? Or 5? The actual whole command is to work 6 days with only the 7th observed as a rest day. Many Sabbatarian's observe Sunday just like Saturday except for the gathering in Church (which there is no command to do). So if your not doing this your still breaking the Sabbath, even if you take Sunday off.

How many times does one need to break the Sabbath to receive its penalty? Only once. All one has to do is look at the penalty of breaking any of the law to prove its requirements are not enforced today. Nor would they want them to be.

Was there ever a law God gave that reversed ANY of the Sabbath day restrictions? NO! Were the punishments ever negated or are they still enforced. One has to be consistent, they can’t say we are under grace for the penalty and not under grace in the keeping of the day. Either the Sabbath is no longer to be practiced by obligation or one needs to practice it correctly.

Those who worship on Saturday are not actually keeping God's command for the Sabbath, because they break the letter of the law. Especially when they try to lay guilt upon others for not keeping the Sabbath. Many say we are observing it by the Spirit of the law and then reinterpret it the way they want to. Either they practice by the letter which it is written in or they should admit to not upholding it correctly. When someone forces their practice upon others without upholding it themselves it then becomes legalism, and is hypocritical to say the least. Jesus dealt with the Pharisees, of whom he said, "they tie up heavy loads and lay them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger.' (Matt. 23:4) Those who seek to lay guilt on others for not keeping the Sabbath are practicing modern-day Pharsaism. They break the Sabbath themselves, but are ignorant of the laws requirements in the word of God. They become something they would certainly want to avoid.

In Christ the Sabbath and worshiping Him and resting in Him 24-7: Phillip

S
sermonindex

Greetings,

The [i]vehement hatred for and ceaseless arguments and persuasions tirelessly waged against the keeping of the commandments of God[/i] are astounding. What depths people go to in order to negate, villify, and wipe out the commandments of YHVH, the Most High God of Israel! Satan, the adversary, has done this from the beginning - back in the Garden, whispering......[i]"did God say"[/i]....

When Yeshua, the Messiah, our great High Priest, the Mediator between God and man returns, [u]be sure to have your case against the keeping of His Father's Torah - teachings, instructions, commandments of God, well prepared.[/u] He died to redeem us from the [i]curse due to us for breaking[/i] that Torah - let us not boldly continue doing so, trampling underfoot the blood of Messiah.

-- Do outline carefully how that when our Master told us in Matthew 5 that [b]he had not come to abolish the Torah, but to fulfill it - and that we are not to relax even the least of the commandments,[/b] you insist and teach that he actually meant 'abolish'?

-- Perhaps explain away how our Master's answer to someone in Matthew 19, [b]"Why do you ask me what is good? One there is who is good. If you would enter life, keep the commandments".[/b]

-- Remind us what our Master, Yeshua, meant when he said: [b]"The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat; so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice. They bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men's shoulders.."[/b] (note: it does [i]not[/i] say that God's laws are hard to bear).

-- Tell us then, [i]those who so dare,[/i] why so many [u]accuse our Father, the Creator of the Universe, who in His great love and wisdom gave us His Torah that you insist is, quote, "[i]impossible to keep[/i]"?[/u] (in direct contradiction to what HE said in Deut 30:11-14).

-- Explain to all assembled on that great day, how that the New Covenant, made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah, and to which according to HIS great mercy, the gentiles are invited to be [u]grafted in[/u] to, does not really mean what it says, according to the wisdom of the gentile greco-roman mindset?

-- Carefully tell how the following verses pertaining to the New Covenant, mediated by Yeshua, [i]do not[/i] mean that [u][b]YHVH's laws will be written on our hearts by the Holy Spirit, causing us to walk in them[/b][/u]...........
......... Justify the position that many take against those who have turned to YHVH through the glorious accomplishment of His dear Son, and have received the Holy Spirit, having YHVH's laws written on their heart and seek to live by them, are so-called [i]'fallen from grace' or turning back to 'weak and beggarly elements' or 'trampling the blood of Messiah'[/i], and other such twisted use of scripture and vain accusation?

[u]Jer.31: 31-33[/u] [b]"Behold, the days are coming, says YHVH, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
not like the covenant which I made with their fathers when I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant which they broke, though I was their husband, says YHVH.
But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it upon their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people."[/b]

[u]Eze.36:26-27[/u] [b]"A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh.
And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances.[/b]

At his last Passover meal, Yeshua said of the cup of blessing, the third Passover cup, that it was "the blood of the covenant shed for many" (Mark 14:24), "the blood of the covenant shed for many for the forgiveness of sins" (Matt 26:28), "the new covenant in my blood" (1 Cor 11:25) or "the new covenant in my blood shed for you" (Luke 22:20).

[u]Heb: 8: 6-13[/u] [b]"But as it is, the Messiah has obtained a ministry which is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.
For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion for a second.
For he finds fault with them when he says: "The days will come, says YHVH,
when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah;
not like the covenant that I made with their fathers
on the day when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of the land of Egypt;
for they did not continue in my covenant,
and so I paid no heed to them, says YHVH.
This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, says YHVH:
I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
And they shall not teach every one his fellow
or every one his brother, saying, `Know YHVH,'
for all shall know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
For I will be merciful toward their iniquities,
and I will remember their sins no more."[/b]

-- Explain too why you have discouraged and tried to turn many away from obeying the commandments of God. Since the days of the Council of Laodicea when 7th day sabbath keeping was outlawed by the Church, until today, the [u][b]"dragon has made war on those who keep the commandments of God and bear the testimony to Yeshua"[/b][/u] (Rev. 12:17 and Rev 14:16).

Perhaps some could try and justify the Easter celebrations and such things that have [i]replaced the Feasts of YHVH?[/i] We have just finished the Passover Remembrance. We now count 7 weeks to the Day of Pentecost, the day the Torah was given by YHVH unto Moses, and which day many years later the Spirit was given unto those who were keeping the Feast of Weeks (Shavuot), writing this same Torah on their hearts, and causing them to walk in it, because of all that their elder brother, Yeshua - the perfect, chosen and anointed one, had done.

Thank you.
Stephen

R
RevBenjamin

Psalms 103:20

Bless the LORD, ye his angels, that excel in strength, that do his commandments, hearkening unto the voice of his word.

Stephen, I asked a question you assume insulted our Creator.

I ask you again. How do these Godly creatures do His commandments? And what commandments are we referring here?


R.G. Benjamin

S
sermonindex

Rev Benjamin,

The English word 'angel' is the Hebrew word 'malach'. It simply means 'messenger'.

The covenants were made with Israel (the house of Israel, and the house of Judah). The Torah was given to Israel.

That the messengers of God do his bidding, is clear in scripture. Not all do/did, as it is also clear that some rebelled, and were cast out.

Stephen

R
RevBenjamin


Stephen,

Please tell us, which of these is written in your heart? It cannot be both. Is the Torah written in your heart or the New Covenant?

The Torah:

Leviticus 24:20

Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.

New Covenant

Matthew 5:37-39
But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.

R.G. Benjamin

L
LoveHim

dear revbenjamin,

just so you know, some on here have been on here for months now trying to put others under the seventh-day sabbath

this camp has been coming on here demanding that believers should be keeping the sabbath the way they desire it to be kept.

there is an agenda by this camp demonstrated by their persistance that we "obey the sabbath" the way they want us to. there is usually a lack of humility that would say "i understand why you see things in the word that you do, but we should pray and seek Him together that He would show Himself unto us whether we obey the friday-saturday sabbath or not" and instead there is much of a "if you are not obeying the sabbath the way i see it in the scriptures, then you are breaking God's law and are in danger of the flames" kinda attitude. (not all, but many).

i could fellowship and worship with a seventh-day adventist if the person could look past this sabbath issue, but many can not.

i ask this now "is our salvation dependant upon the 'obedience' of a seventh-day sabbath or not?" if it is, then we stand on 2 diffent grounds for salvation. if it is not dependant upon that, then let us look past this issue and focus on One more deserving of our worship and meditation, Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

phil

C
crsschk

An old post, close to 4 years ago;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3878&forum=36]The fourth commandment[/url]

R
RevBenjamin

ask this now "is our salvation dependant upon the 'obedience' of a seventh-day sabbath or not?" if it is, then we stand on 2 diffent grounds for salvation. if it is not dependant upon that, then let us look past this issue and focus on One more deserving of our worship and meditation, Jesus Christ our Lord and God.

Phil, Our salvation is dependent upon the Blood of our Lord and [u][b]Savior[/b][/u] Jesus Christ.

I have read many posts on SI in conjunction with the issue of Sabbath Keeping. What amazes me more is the generosity given to these here, Paul would call 'Enemies of the Cross'.

Blessings to you,

R.G. Benjamin

P
PaulWest

What amazes me more is the generosity given to these here

Many a sabbatarian post has already been locked. For those who know the truth, perhaps it would be best to not engage or be obliged to participate in such fruitless debates? The ploy here is to draw things out for the occasion of flashing sabbath "proof texts" in the hopes to win some. I would beseech the older, more mature saints here to not fall for this tactic.

Brother Paul

L
LoveHim

Phil, Our salvation is dependent upon the Blood of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

I have read many posts on SI in conjunction with the issue of Sabbath Keeping. What amazes me more is the generosity given to these here, Paul would call 'Enemies of the Cross'.

i agree brother. what i am saying is that there are probably some who observe a "saturday-sabbath" who understand that not all observe it like them and can move past the issue. but those here who are adament that we observe the sabbath their way desire to place believers under bondage and keep the law by the flesh.

i can care less what day someone may want to gather together to worship God in a corporate setting, the issue at hand is "are they born again and do they desire to walk with Him?"

that is what that paragraph that i wrote earlier was trying to say.. i apologize for the misunderstanding..

blessings brother,
phil

J
jayyou

Dear brother RevBenjamin,

You asked a couple of question to sscr01, and If you allow me I would like to try to answer them for you.


First of all, I want you to know that I am SDA, and if for one second I believed that we, (SDAs) deny the Deity of Christ, you better believe me that I would leave it once and for all.


People read on the internet all sorts of things and if whatever they read supports what they believe then it must be true.

I believe that we can talk about different points of doctrines and discuss it and even if you do not belive the things that I believe and vice verse, we can still have a pleasant discussion and in the end agree that we disagree.

I just think that it is not very nice when people starts naming denominations and passing judgments that are not necessarily true.

If someone quotes something in the bible and tells me that he believes it says something different of that that I believe, I want to investigate, pray and learn if what he says is right or wrong. I just don't assume it is wrong.

When this happens people want to know what denomination this person belongs to so that they can try to discredit what they say by saying things of his denomination, and I believe this is not very nice...

You want to talk about scriptures, let's talk about Scriptures, anything else is uncalled for....

============

Please allow me to answer some of the question that you put to our dear brother.


Quote: """"Do the Angels keep the sabbath?""""

though I don't understand the relevance of the question, I will say this...

whatever commandments God gave them, they must abide otherwise they would sin.

Is the Sabbath binding to the Angels, I don't know for the bible doesn't say that but it also doesn't say it isn't. it doesn't say that they cannot commit murder, Do they?
it doesn't say that they can lie? do they?

I have just mentioned a couple of the Ten Commandments you can do the test in all of them, But sure you will say that only the fourth one are not binding to the Angels...

One thing I do know, God SAnctified the SAbbath, God Himself rested on the SAbbath, and he gave Us a command to rest and to hallow His Holy DAy.
You can call it a day but Nehemiah calls it,
Your Holy Day..... Amazing....
++++++++

Quote:""""If so, how? Is it according to our time clock of a 24 hour day? What time zone do they keep? """"

I sorry to say this but this is just plain silly, These question have no relevance at all. I just cannot see the point of these questions, but I will say this, whatever commandments God gave them I can garantee you that they abide by them, whatever the conditions are, I don't know, but they do abide by them, otherwise they would be down here with the others that disobeyed...
+++++++

Quote:"""""Is this Sabbath the same as the 4th Commandment of the 10 Commandments, or another?"""

Dear Brother, there are two types of Sabbaths,

One, instituted at creation, no sin in the word, no need of a saviour to redeem us from sin.

Two, Instituted to Israel, called feasts of the Lord, these were shadows of things to come. They Pointed to the saviour that would come to redeem us all....

++++++++++++

Quote:""""Are Angels also subject to the 10 Commandments?""""

Again, you seem to have a fascination with Angels, Whatever God has commanded the Angels is irrelevant to me or us, as far as our salvation is concerned.

I ask you this, take all the other nines, are they subject to them or they can do whatever they want to do in regard of the other nines?

Please I am not saying that the Angels are subject to the Sabbath, for the bible doesn't say that, but if God SAnctified it, hallowed it and blessed it, it would not surprise me if they did. In Exodus, the bible tells us that God rested and felt refreshed, why wouldn't He extended that to the Angels. You will say, now you are saying that the Angels should rest. I am not, I just said that the bible tells us that God rested from His works and felt refreshed on the Sabbath that all

====

I just don't see the relevance of these question, since God commanded men to do certain things then we should worry about us fulfilling them, the Angels are a whole different ball game...


=========


I have a few question for you, I would love to know what you think about this....


++++++++

=====If the law are done away, why was the ark that contains the law of God shown to John?

====what is still inside the ark?

====tell me about the fourth commandment of the law that was put inside the ark down here on earth, taking into account that whatever was done in the earthly tabernacle was a copy of the heavenly one?

====Whatever is inside the ark that was seen by John, Are there ten Commandments there or nine?


=====One last thing, Please explain to me Romans chapter two, where Paul is describing circumcision of the flesh and the inwardly Jew?

Would love to hear your comments about this....

God bless us all.....

S
sermonindex

Yes "LoveHim", there are two camps.

Messiah Yeshua put it this way:

Matthew 7:21-27 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you [u][b]workers of lawlessness.'[/b][/u]

1John 3:4 says: "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for [u][b]sin is the transgression of the law.[/u][/b]"

Revelation 22:14 puts it this way: "Blessed are they that [b][u]do his commandments[/u][/b], that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Stephen

S
sermonindex


Greetings Reverend Benjamin,

[u]You asked:[/u] [i]"Stephen, Please tell us, which of these is written in your heart? It cannot be both. Is the Torah written in your heart or the New Covenant?"[/i]

[u]My answer:[/u] [b]The New Covenant is the Torah, formerly written on stone, now written of the hearts and minds of those who have the Holy Spirit of God, because of their faith in Yeshua Messiah.[/b] That is outlined clearly in many places, including Hebrews 8:

[b]"This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, says the YHVH:
I will put my laws (TORAH) into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people."[/b]


The RevBenjamin also quoted the following, asking me to choose one:

[i]"The Torah:
Leviticus 24:20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again.
New Covenant Matthew 5:37-39
But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil. Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also."[/i]

[u]My answer:[/u] Messiah Yeshua came to [b]"magnify the law".[/b] Isaiah spoke of the Servant thus: "YHVH is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he will [b]magnify the law,[/b] and make it honourable." (Is 42:21) (note: [i]Not do away with it[/i].)

In that passage from Matthew 5, Messiah was teaching and magnifying the Torah. He was correcting the false teachings and interpretations of the Torah.

Messiah Yeshua was very wise in his dealings with people. Especially the hypocrites - those who professed to follow the Almighty, but were always looking for 'wiggle room' in the commandments, always seeking to re-interpret the Torah of YHVH to suit their own carnal lusts and desires. Yeshua answered the crafty according to their craftiness:

Matthew 5:27, 28 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart". .....No getting round that one!

Matthew 5: 38,39 "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." .........Rev, you imply that Yeshua Messiah was negating the teachings of His Father--this is not the case. People had taken this instruction, and twisted it to be used as personal vengeance on others, whereas the original teaching pertained to judicial matters in the camp of Israel. i.e. [u]Compensation, NOT Retaliation[/u].

Thank you.
Stephen
-------------------------

[i]more of the Master's words:[/i]
Then spake Yeshua to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Saying The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: [u]All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.[/u] But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments,
And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi.
[u]But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Messiah[/u] and all ye are brethren.
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Messiah.
But he that is greatest among you shall be your servant.
And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! [u]for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.[/u]


S
sermonindex

quote: [i]Many a sabbatarian post has already been locked. For those who know the truth, perhaps it would be best to not engage or be obliged to participate in such fruitless debates? The ploy here is to draw things out for the occasion of flashing sabbath "proof texts" in the hopes to win some. I would beseech the older, more mature saints here to not fall for this tactic. Brother Paul[/i]
----------------------------

It is [b]no ploy[/b] of mine to quote: [i]"win some"[/i]. Many are called and few are chosen.

Sadly, the heart of the matter is that unless the New Covenant (Jer. 31, Heb 8 etc) [b]has been written on the heart, it is impossible for one to know the delight of obeying the Father's commands.[/b]

Yes, the sabbatarian threads do end up locked - the [u]truth[/u] however, is no longer locked, as the power of the institution is fading, and [b]men are seeking the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.[/b] Not [u]many, but the few.[/u]

Although one can drag up another ex-whatever to 'testify' how he/she was in bondage while so-called keeping the sabbath or some other commandment, it matters not, for many are being called to obey the Father's commands in our day, and [u]testify to the joy and freedom found in the Father's ways[/u].

We will all stand before the judgement seat. [u]While you are confident that teaching and discouraging others from keeping the LORD's sabbath and other commandments is something you are proud of,[/u]..........[b] I believe that encouraging others to obey the commandments of God is scriptural.[/b]

While you exhort others quote: [i]"more mature saints here to not fall for this tactic"[/i], .......... I will exhort those (few, for the way is narrow), who are so touched by the Spirit: [u][b]"Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Yeshua"[/b][/u].

"How Esau loves his food".

Thank you.
Stephen.

C
Christinyou

This is not teaching others to disregard the Law of Commandments, but to understand they were to show us sin, and lead us to Christ. You cannot be in The Grace of God in Christ Jesus and the Law also, one cancels the other. It is either the Grace of God in Christ Jesus where you will be seated in heavenly places in Him or you will live in the Law and be condemned by it.

"For by Grace are you saved by Grace through faith, and that not of yourselves."

Paul had the same problem with the Judaizers with the Galatians. Just put Sabbath Keepers in the place of the Judiazers and you might understand that the Law will not save you or keep you saved.

Galatians 3:1-29 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

The Promise to Abraham was Christ through his seed Mary and the Seed of God the Father to bring forth His only begotten Son that we might live as son's of God through Him. There is no life in the Sabbath or any other Law, there is only Godly life in Christ Jesus. Live under the Law and have life in the Law, which is death. Live life in Christ and we are already translated into the kingdom of His dear Son.

Paul confronted a group who promoted extra-biblical rules for godliness. The Judaizers of Paul's day taught that faith in Christ was necessary for salvation, but they also taught that obedience to parts of the Mosaic Law, including circumcision, this would also include the seventh day Sabbath, were also necessary. They also taught obedience to the Law was essential for living godly lives. In other words, the Judaizers held that being godly included adhering to an external set of rules. The Christians at Galatia had fallen into this false doctrine. Paul scolded them saying:

YOU foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you. . . This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? (Gal. 3:2-3). The principle is clear: Just as salvation is totally of the Holy Spirit and the Christ birthed in you and has nothing to do with our own efforts, so too, the living out of the Christian life must be according to the Holy Spirit and not according to fleshly efforts. The way one was saved is the same way one must grow spiritually. Paul would also tell the Galatians, "Walk by the Spirit, and the Life of Christ that is birthed in you and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh" (Galatians 5:16). The key to godly living is continual reliance upon and obedience to the Holy Spirit of His teaching of that Christ that is now in us and our only life unto God. Though the Galatians were genuinely saved they wrongly tried to live out their lives in the flesh by keeping the rules and regulations of the Judaizers. The Law.


In Christ: Phillip

C
crsschk

Strider,

Your heart is not right.

S
sscr01

Jesus said, "Not every one that saith,Lord, Lord, shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven: BUT HE THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER which is in heaven.

MANY will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? And in Thy name have cast out devils? AND IN THY NAME DONE MANY WONDERFUL WORKS? and then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity." (lawlessness) Mt 7:21-23.

"And hereby we do know that WE KNOW HIM, IF WE KEEP HIS COMMANMNDMENTS.

He that saith, I KNOW HIM, and keepeth not His commandments, is a LIAR and the Truth is not in him." 1 John 2:3,4.

These are not my words, but His Word.

S
sermonindex

Dear Crssschk

Thank you. I find a few things expressed here to be rather troubling:

--your quote: [i]The first mention of the Sabbath's being kept by anyone is recorded in Exodus 16. It began with Moses and was instituted in the wilderness. To go back of Moses for proof in favor of Saturday keeping is going outside the Bible, into the fogs and mists of speculation and darkness.[/i]

--I have no idea why this is quoted to booster an argument against the LORD's 4th commandment. Dragging up disgruntled ex-whatever's to testify that the Torah was/is a bondage to them, and that now they are 'free', reminds me of the nations raging and conspiring in Psalm 2....."let us cast their bonds asunder".

-----------------------------

--The insistance by most that the Torah (commandments, teachings, instructions of YHVH) are quote: [u]"impossible to keep"[/u].
--This is in direct contradiction to the word of the Almighty God Himself in Deut 30:11-15:

"For this commandment which I command you this day is [b]not too hard for you[/b], neither is it far off.
It is not in heaven, that you should say, `Who will go up for us to heaven, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?'
Neither is it beyond the sea, that you should say, `Who will go over the sea for us, and bring it to us, that we may hear it and do it?'
But the word is very near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart, so that you can do it.
"See, I have set before you this day life and good, death and evil."

-----------------------------

--The insistance by most that the Torah is [u]"bondage"[/u].
--This is also in direct contradiction to Scripture. When YHVH gave the Torah to His people, He prefaced it with these words: "I am YHVH, your God, Who took you out of the land of Egypt, [b]out of the house of bondage[/b]. He did not lead them out of bondage to re-enslave them once again under His laws and instructions that He gave for their [b]good[/b].

--"Bondage" in Scripture refers to living a life of selfish rebellion, sinfulness, lawlessness, and opposed to God's law. We must be careful not to call evil what God has called good.
--The Torah is good, holy and just.....NOT a curse. The curse is the [b]punishment[/b] due us for breaking the Torah.

--Our [u]new life in Yeshua Messiah is a life of freedom.[/u] Freedom from the WAGES OF AND ENSLAVEMENT TO SIN.

-- Far from being a blueprint for slavery, bondage and other such notions, the commandments of God illuminate the pathway of a free life - a life free from the debilitating and destructive consequences of sin.
--Real freedom is found only in obedience to God. [u] Lawlessness, or disobedience to God, is sin (1 John 3:4), and it is a form of bondage[/u]. Yeshua said that [u]"whoever commits sin is a slave of sin ... Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed"[/u] (John 8:34, 36).

----------------------------------

--There is an ever present accusation that those who testify to the joy and freedom of seeking to walk in the Father's ways by obeying His commandments, are trying to quote: [i]bring us back into bondage, or bring us back under the law"[/i].
--Clearly gentiles were [i]never under the law, never cared a bit for the Torah,[/i] and so could not be 'brought back', because they were [b]never[/b] under it. They were under the law of death.........the wages due one for living in rebellion to God.

As the apostle Peter says: "Let the time that is past suffice for doing what the Gentiles like to do, living in licentiousness, passions, drunkenness, revels, carousing, and lawless idolatry. They are surprised that you do not now join them in the same wild profligacy, and they abuse you; but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead".

--[u]Gentiles were not living in 'bondage' under Torah, but 'living in licentiousness, passions, drunkenness, revels, carousing, and lawless idolatry", which is anti-Torah, rebellion![/u]
--Gentiles were living in bondage to SIN.
--Rejection of Torah leads to lawlessness, degeneration and ultimately, spiritual death.

-----------------------------

--[u]Consider well the "spirit of lawlessness already at work", that would cause even the elect to be deceived. In 2 Thessalonians 2:7,8 we read: "For the [b]mystery of lawlessness[/b] is already at work, but only until the one who now restrains it is removed. And then the [b]lawless one[/b] will be revealed..."[/u]

-----------------------------
When Yeshua returns, the Kingdom of God will spread throughout the earth: "Many nations will come and say, [b]'Come and let us go up to the mountain of YHVH, to the house of the God of Jacob. He will teach us his ways, so that we may walk in his paths.' The law will go out from Zion, the word of YHVH from Jerusalem."[/b]

[u]Among those who love the truth, this restoration has already begun[/u].

Paul says in Romans 2:13, "It is the DOERS of the law who will be justified."

----------------------------

....as King David proclaimed, "So I will keep Your Torah continually, forever and ever, and I will walk at [u]liberty,[/u] for I seek Your precepts" (Psalm 119:44-45)
Thank you.
Stephen.

R
RevBenjamin

.........Rev, you imply that Yeshua Messiah was negating the teachings of His Father--this is not the case. People had taken this instruction, and twisted it to be used as personal vengeance on others, whereas the original teaching pertained to judicial matters in the camp of Israel. i.e.


Can you explain this? Clearly a judicial matter in the Law. Do you think only the 10 commandments pertain to the Ark? Do you see a mercy seat? Do you see the sprinkling of Blood? Do you understand 'once and for all'?


John 8:3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst, They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act. Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou? This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not. So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground. And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, [u]Neither do I condemn thee: [/u] go, and sin no more.


Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

You want to know what is inside the Ark?

Please take a look:

[u]10Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other. [/u]

R.G. Benjamin

S
sermonindex

Dear RevBenjamin,

[u]"Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?"[/u]

In this they were referring to the ruling of [u]Leviticus 20:10[/u].

Note, that they are very careful not to actually quote the words of the Law, but
rather state it in general terms, ascribing that the law of Moses
commanded that she should be stoned.

When we read the very words of the ruling in Leviticus, we soon
understand [b]why they were not willing[/b] to actually quote the very
wording of the ruling themselves:

[u]Leviticus 20:10[/u] - [b]"The man who commits adultery with another man's
wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer
and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death."[/b]

Both should be put to death.

The big question is: Where was the man?

We do not know who he was, and we only have their words about her
adultery to imply that he even existed. They only bring the woman to
Yeshua, for Him to try her. Yet, any good judge would have first asked
for them to bring the other guilty parties, so that the case could be
heard. They must have realised that, and were not concerned with
justice for the woman. And, justice is a serious element of the Law.

So it is obvious, that they were not really interested in the Law,
but rather in [b]catching Yeshua out.[/b] John says as much in V6:

"This they said, [b]testing Him[/b], that they might have something of
which to [b]accuse Him[/b]."


Adultery is sin. If we are going to use Yeshua's teaching we have to use His definition, ...whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart (Mt. 5:28). Yeshua was not justifying adultery in this incident. Neither was he teaching against the Torah of his Father, which clearly teaches that the other guilty party was to be brought to justice too. No one was found, even although she was allegedly 'taken in the act' according to those who accused her. Their duplicity and cunning were exposed!


------------------------------


[u]RevBenjamin asked me[/u]: quote: [i]"Can you explain this? Clearly a judicial matter in the Law. Do you think only the 10 commandments pertain to the Ark? Do you see a mercy seat? Do you see the sprinkling of Blood? Do you understand 'once and for all'?
Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
You want to know what is inside the Ark?
Please take a look:
10Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other."[/i]

[u]My answer[/u]: I addressed the adultery incident above. I am not sure why you have posed all those questions. Yes, there is a mercy seat; yes ,there is the sprinkling of Blood; yes, I understand 'once and for all'.

and

[b]Psalm 85:10: "Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other." is a WONDERFUL promised and truth!!![/b]Amen!


Stephen.


R
RevBenjamin


Both should be put to death.

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost. Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, [u]and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.[/u]

But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost. And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Stephen, you have a [i]wrong[/i] answer for everything.

R.G. Benjamin

S
sermonindex

RevBenjamin-

Sorry, that you feel it was the wrong answer, as I was just quoting the Scripture there.

[i]do you have a problem with that?[/i]

added edit:
That comes from Leviticus 20:10 - "The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death."


*****I see that you have curiously added the birth of Yeshua to that post. Your original one dealt with the woman taken in adultery......

:-(

C
crsschk

--The insistance by most that the Torah is "bondage".
--This is also in direct contradiction to Scripture. When YHVH gave the Torah to His people, He prefaced it with these words: "I am YHVH, your God, Who took you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. He did not lead them out of bondage to re-enslave them once again under His laws and instructions that He gave for their good.

--"Bondage" in Scripture refers to living a life of selfish rebellion, sinfulness, lawlessness, and opposed to God's law. We must be careful not to call evil what God has called good.
--The Torah is good, holy and just.....NOT a curse. The curse is the punishment due us for breaking the Torah.


[i] I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.[/i] Exo 20:2


(Used for both "Land" and "House")

[b]H4480[/b]
מנּי מנּי מן
min minnîy minnêy
min, min-nee', min-nay'
For H4482; properly a part of; hence (prepositionally), from or out of in many senses: - above, after, among, at, because of, by (reason of), from (among), in, X neither, X nor, (out) of, over, since, X then, through, X whether, with.


Egypt

[b]H4714[/b]
מצרים
mitsrayim
mits-rah'-yim
Dual of H4693; Mitsrajim, that is, Upper and Lower Egypt: - Egypt, Egyptians, Mizraim.

Bondage

[b]H5649[/b]
עבד
‛ăbad
ab-ad'
(Chaldee); from H5648; a servant: - servant.

So bondage in this context refers not to either an insistence that the law is bondage nor to a life of selfish rebellion, etc. The Hebrews were in bondage to Pharaoh, [i]out of the land of Egypt[/i], out of [i]that[/i] house of bondage.

[i]Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; [b]the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage[/b], which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.[/i] 4:21-31 Gal

[i]Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law?[/i] it's a question, not a statement that I am echoing.

A couple of notes on all this in general. The vast majority that come here for spiritual food and nourishment are not looking for a loop hole in the Lords commandments, far from it! So to continue on in this form and manner is to continually prop up a straw-man of your own making to knock back down again. You are not alone in this by any stretch. For all the piercing, spiritual truths afforded all here, to think such a thing is only worsened by this hard line and the twisting of scriptures in a variety of ways to make it all so;

--There is an ever present accusation that those who testify to the joy and freedom of seeking to walk in the Father's ways by obeying His commandments, are trying to quote: bring us back into bondage, or bring us back under the law".
--Clearly gentiles were never under the law, never cared a bit for the Torah, and so could not be 'brought back', because they were never under it. They were under the law of death.........the wages due one for living in rebellion to God.

As the apostle Peter says: "Let the time that is past suffice for doing what the Gentiles like to do, living in licentiousness, passions, drunkenness, revels, carousing, and lawless idolatry. They are surprised that you do not now join them in the same wild profligacy, and they abuse you; but they will give account to him who is ready to judge the living and the dead".

--Gentiles were not living in 'bondage' under Torah, but 'living in licentiousness, passions, drunkenness, revels, carousing, and lawless idolatry", which is anti-Torah, rebellion!
--Gentiles were living in bondage to SIN.
--Rejection of Torah leads to lawlessness, degeneration and ultimately, spiritual death.

Again, are you not strip-mining the context of the scriptures to fit or form your own intentions? This is yet another straw-man whereby you put the onus, and I would say pride of emphasis on yourself and others 'like you' for "[i]the joy and freedom of seeking to walk in the Father's ways by obeying His commandments[/i] and make anyone and everyone who differs, who may be trying to truly understand just what the law and the covenants and all that was put forth by Paul into the outer realm, that their only concern is one of dodging the commandments.

But it is a bondage and precisely what you are attempting to do. You care not for spiritual truth and spiritual growth for the Brethren but are absorbed with the notions of the Pharisees. The very thing that Jesus constantly challenged and questioned of their hearts you would bring others right back under again. I fully would expect nothing but a rebuttal and another handful of scriptures to be taken either partially or fully out of their context to just continue this agenda, and that is what it is, it is not a discussion because their is no backing off or any consideration or reconsideration. And by the way, both 'sides' here doing much the same by repeating over and over the same scriptures. I am guilty as well.

Mentioned earlier that I did come back to this all again very much unbiased and truthfully I did. That does not mean I did not have some preconceived understanding, bluntly, that I do not believe we are under the same legal obligations now as Israel was when these laws were given to them. But that didn't mean that I still didn't have some questions or was unwilling to try and grapple with them. Some of those questions were my own, as mentioned elsewhere, my thoughts ran towards, "Could I in fact be in disobedience?" I certainly recognize that I very well could be and in practical out-workings actually do practice a day of rest, sometimes two, if one was to be technical about it. One question I would have for those so adamant about all this ...

Exo 35:2 Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

[i]Six days shall work be done ...[/i]

Do you also work six days? Honestly? And what kind of work are we talking about? What qualifies and what does not? In a society based for the better part on a 5 day work week and whether that it is a heathenish\\worldly construct or not, how does it work out in practical, real life experience. And how does it justify the commandment for those holding so stringently to it.

From the same article that was so easily and quickly denounced and dismissed;

[i]While Paula and I do not believe the Adventist position, that the Sabbath is morally binding, is biblical, we do believe that it is a healthy way to live and has merit for spiritual growth. We value and support the concept of Sabbath rest. We enjoy the spiritual benefits of taking a day that is dedicated to God and family. We love taking a media fast for a day and letting the noise and clamor cease. This is a part of our spiritual lives that we hold dear and will always treasure. But to insist that it always be on Saturday, or that it is mandated by Scripture, is adding to the Word of God an unnecessary requirement for new believers. It constitutes a stumbling block that is not necessary. It gets in the way of many coming to Jesus. We believe that we should remove all obstacles from the path of the true seeker except the scandal of the cross. This is the heart of the message of Galatians and the rest of the New Testament.[/i]

http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Testimonies/Taylor/tabid/66/Default.aspx

What is spurious and curious is how one or two doctrines can be so beaten down or continually emphasized that it makes one wonder what is really going on in the hearts of those who keep championing them. A search here on just this subject matter will present many postings and none of them to my recollection changed anybodies mind, at least in response. They end up going either in circles or nowhere.

This forum is many things but predominantly it is for disciples. Disciples, by definition are "learners". Those of us who come here with a teaching agenda but have no spiritual concerns or the wrong heart and wrong spirit only end up bringing contention and strife. The m.o. behind it all is generally "I don't care" and further is a selfish delusion that "I am doing the Lord's business" or something of that mindset. But it all amounts to next to nothing. No one is really listening to each other or even considering each other. I think that those who come with their agendas are already on the outside looking in if they think they are going to get an ear to what they are bringing.

There is an arrogance, a stubbornness, a prideful obstinance in most if not all of us in some form or fashion that glares over many a subject like this. It overshadows the whole thing ...

[i]Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.[/i] Mat 23:24

I do not know how it can be disputed. How much better would it be for us to take in some more demanding issues of the heart or those of the contrast between soul and spirit, of character, honesty and integrity, of being teachable like the children we are before the Lord Almighty, of being obedient in the heart and the thought life. So many tremendous things, so demanding of us and so prevalent here in a variety of resources, to take those to task and application and then maybe after having absorbed and taken them in, just then maybe we might be more apt and capable of teaching or leading others in subjects that are often in disagreement.


C
Christinyou

We can make the scripture say anything when taken out of context used for our own agenda.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, [thou] that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under [her] wings, and ye would not!

Now God has feathers.

Strider wrote:

"Sorry, that you feel it was the wrong answer, as I was just quoting the Scripture there.

do you have a problem with that?"

Yes, when so many are telling you, what you are doing is wrong and what you are leading others into is not the Gospel of Paul in Christ Jesus, but the Gospel of Moses which is old and has passed away and all things have become new in Christ Jesus our Lord, who is now the life of the believer and the reason we are called son's of God.

The works of the Law in man is why Jesus Christ had to go to the Cross, and the reason God the Father put Him their in His Plan before the foundation of the World. Just to get you and me, and take away the sin of the world that condemned every man, no matter how well he kept the Law.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

The Law and the commandments keep the flesh in the old creature state and condemn all who stay in the Law of the flesh operation. The new is the Law of Christ in the Spirit operation in us, not outside of us as works of the flesh, but works of the Spirit is what changes us from glory to glory by the Spirit of Christ born again in us. The only one that kept the Law perfect is Christ and that is the perfection God demands. The only way we are pleasing to the Father is by this Christ that is born again in us when we believe as Peter did, "Thou art the Son of God", and flesh and blood did not reveal this to Peter, but The Father in Heaven. That is our salvation not by the works of the Law.

Ephesians 2:4-13 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

What is the enmity? The Law, not the covenants and promises. "who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;" You are in the Law of the flesh made with hands, we want you to be in the Law of Spirit in Christ Jesus.

Not keeping the Sabbath to atone for the flesh, but making Christ the Sabbath to live in the Spirit.

In Christ: Phillip

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Christinyou said: quote: [i]Yes, when so many are telling you, what you are doing is wrong and what you are leading others into is not the Gospel of Paul in Christ Jesus, but the Gospel of Moses[/i]

Phillip, [b]I recognise one gospel-----the Good News as brought to us by Yeshua Messiah.[/b]

Also, my answer to the RevBenjamin was not scripture taken out of context. Thank you.

Stephen
-------------------------------

[u]Let me repost it for clarification[/u]:

"Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?"

In this they were referring to the ruling of Leviticus 20:10.

Note, that they are very careful not to actually quote the words of the Law, but
rather state it in general terms, ascribing that the law of Moses
commanded that she should be stoned.

When we read the very words of the ruling in Leviticus, we soon
understand why they were not willing to actually quote the very
wording of the ruling themselves:

Leviticus 20:10 - "The man who commits adultery with another man's
wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer
and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death."

Both should be put to death.

The big question is: Where was the man?

We do not know who he was, and we only have their words about her
adultery to imply that he even existed. They only bring the woman to
Yeshua, for Him to try her. Yet, any good judge would have first asked
for them to bring the other guilty parties, so that the case could be
heard. They must have realised that, and were not concerned with
justice for the woman. And, justice is a serious element of the Law.

So it is obvious, that they were not really interested in the Law,
but rather in catching Yeshua out. John says as much in V6:

"This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of
which to accuse Him."


Adultery is sin. If we are going to use Yeshua's teaching we have to use His definition, ...whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart (Mt. 5:28). Yeshua was not justifying adultery in this incident. Neither was he teaching against the Torah of his Father, which clearly teaches that the other guilty party was to be brought to justice too. No one was found, even although she was allegedly 'taken in the act' according to those who accused her. Their duplicity and cunning were exposed!

R
RevBenjamin

--The insistance by most that the Torah (commandments, teachings, instructions of YHVH) are quote: "impossible to keep".

Can a person keep the Torah?


Are you a farmer? No? Then you are not required to fulfill the commandments relevant to farmers. You are not likely to create hybrids of two plant-bearing fruits, nor are you likely to cross-breed animals, so the Torah's Commandments about these matters do not apply to you. You have not transgressed the Torah by not being a farmer.

Are you a Cohen (a member of the Priestly family of the Tribe of Levi)? No? Then a great many other Commandments do not apply to you. True, you can't fulfill them, but that's not a sin.

You can't fulfill those, because you are not allowed to!


Are you a judge? No? Then you can't fulfill another whole set of Commandments that pertain to judges in Jewish Courts. But that is not a sin, you simply cannot fulfill them.

To be sure, the Ten Commandments are ten of the 613 Commandments of the Torah. Also, they
represent ten categories of Commandments, which means that all the 613 can be represented by those ten, but there are far
more than ten Commandments in the Torah.

So there are actually 613 Commandments in the Torah, but as I have shown above, most of them don't apply to most people.


Can you tell me what part of the Torah cannot be kept today by man?

R.G. Benjamin

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RevBenjamin asked, after quoting various parts of Torah: [i]"Can you tell me what part of the Torah cannot be kept today by man?"[/i]

Perhaps you can tell me.

[b]Let us not make YHVH's Torah appear ridiculous, by asking questions that are not sincere in intent.[/b]

Read the Torah. (the first 5 books of the Bible). He will show you what applies to you. Then ask why even in Rev. 14:12 there are those who "[u]keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Yeshua[/u]". (*note: not those who argue against God's commandments.)

Please tell me which of the Father's commandments we can break or ignore, and why.

Thank you.
Stephen.

C
Christinyou

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

The woman caught in adultry, was she stoned? If Jesus was to command the Law, He should have cast the first stone.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Gal 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Gal 3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, [doeth he it] by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

By the Love that Jesus showed the adulterous woman, what were His words?

Then on top of that because He did not judge the woman, the Pharisaic men that were there told Him that He was not true.

John 8:10-15 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee? She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more. Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. The Pharisees therefore said unto him, Thou bearest record of thyself; thy record is not true. Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go. Ye judge after the flesh; I judge no man.

Those that keep the old law bear record and witness of themselves, and Jesus said that that record is not true because they judge after the flesh.

What were His words to the woman? "Neither do I, go and sin no more." The woman would have stayed under the Law and would have been stoned if Christ has not forgiven her and told her He would not judge her either. Now which way is what we are trying to show you, the Judgement of the LaW OR THE freedom in Christ and His Cross. Even if she did sin again, she would always have in her mind that Jesus is the one that would not condemn her.

After the Cross we have Him as our advocate with the Father and if we sin the sins of a man in the flesh, we see that God is faithful and just to forgive us if we confess, not try harder to keep the Law. That Law is in us now and He is the One that will cleanse us from all unrighteousness, not us trying harder to keep the Law.

This is the Law of sin and death we have had taken away from us by the Christ that is in us, it is His Seed that remaineth in us and that Seed cannot sin, a man can. So we are perfect before God in Christ Jesus and if we sin we have Him as the Advocate with the Father for those sins of the flesh.

What does John say? 1 John 1:5-10 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

But He also says, we cannot sin. 1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for His Seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The two have nothing to do with keeping the Law of the commandments but because we have the Seed of Christ that remaineth in us and cannot sin any sin that will separate us from God ever again, and if we sin we of the flesh, we have the advocate with the Father who condemns no man, if we confess we are forgiven, that is why God is faithful and Just to forgive us our sin, not because we confess but because of Christ and His Cross, The Father has Justified us and cleanses us from all sin and unrighteousness.

Who is our righteousness, Justification?

1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

What Seed is in us? How are we purified?

1 Peter 1:22-25 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Not by keeping the Law. But by the Incorruptable Seed that is by the Word of God that is in you and abides forever.

Who is the Word of God?

John 1:1-7 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through Him might believe.

Do you now believe?

In Christ: Phillip

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Christinyou asked me: [i]"The woman caught in adultry, was she stoned? If Jesus was to command the Law, He should have cast the first stone."[/i]

Phillip, [u]that was my point in posting that scripture.[/u] According to the Law, the adulterer [u]and[/u] the partner are to be brought to the judge. The Pharisees did not bring the other party, and were obviously trying to [b]catch Yeshua[/b], to trip him up in their mis-use of the Law. So no, according to the Law, no one could stone her, without the other guilty party being brought to them.

Here is the actual law found in Leviticus regarding adultery. Note that the Pharisees only quoted part of it, in order to use it unlawfully: Leviticus 20:10 - "The man who commits adultery with another man's wife, he who commits adultery with his neighbor's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress, shall surely be put to death."

Yeshua has now paid the price, the curse of sin such as adultery. He took that death on himself. Should one therefore continue in adultery? No. To do so would be to trample underfoot the sacrifice of Messiah. Go and sin no more - is what He says.

Yeshua not only upheld the Torah, he came to magnify it, and that is why he taught that adultery was not only physical, but could even take place in a man's heart. He instructed his listeners on a fuller understanding of what the original command truly meant. Thus he catches the crafty in their craftiness.

Stephen


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RevBenjamin

The main point is that the promise of Messiah has been realized and the Levitical priesthood, as outlined in the Torah was a shadow that is now replaced by the substance, Jesus Christ.

The Word gives us Scriptural evidence that the sacrifice Jesus Christ, fulfilled the Law becoming our High Priest, and WE are His Temple.

To live by the faith of Christ is to live by that perfect obedience becoming obedient unto death.

Paul further evidences this truth in Philippians Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Stephen, can you see and hear what it means to live 'by the Faith of' the Only Begotten?

Those who want to keep law, only want to avoid the cross.

The Torah never asked you to identify in His death and resurrection.


R.G. Benjamin

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quote: [i]"Stephen, can you see and hear what it means to live 'by the Faith of' the Only Begotten?
Those who want to keep law, only want to avoid the cross.
The Torah never asked you to identify in His death and resurrection".[/i]

That is why I like to quote this verse from [u]Revelation 14:12[/u]: [b]"Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Yeshua".[/b]

Faith in the only begotten Son, and, as James said, demonstrating that faith by works. Or as Paul said it would be 'not be the hearers of the law that are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified".

Yes, Rev, the Levitical Priesthood has ceased as such, and we now have a High Priest who mediates on our behalf.

Thank you
Stephen

C
Christinyou

Steven wrote:

"Yeshua has now paid the price, the curse of sin such as adultery. He took that death on himself. Should one therefore continue in adultery? No. To do so would be to trample underfoot the sacrifice of Messiah. Go and sin no more - is what He says.

Yeshua not only upheld the Torah, he came to magnify it, and that is why he taught that adultery was not only physical, but could even take place in a man's heart. He instructed his listeners on a fuller understanding of what the original command truly meant. Thus he catches the crafty in their craftiness."

Stephen

Yes, the Law was made even harder to keep, by Jesus Himself who is the Law within Himself. That is the kicker for us, if we could not keep the law as it was, how much harder would it be when the righteousness of God Himself show us what the fulfillment of the Law was suppose to accomplish, and did not and would not and could not, in mortal flesh, Him being the only One that could because He was God Himself incarnate in man.

He, God must be incarnate in man for that to be accomplished and that is what the birthing is all about. It is Christ Jesus Incarnate in us, that is the only way we can fulfill the Law not by the keeping of the Letter, but by the Spirit of the Law that is in us, Jesus Christ Himself. Without the Son of God being Born Again in us we cannot see these things of the KKinddom of God.

Being Born Again of water and Spirit, the Water of Life Himself and the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus our Lord. This is the Law of Christ. Not the Law of commandments unaccomplishable by the flesh.

Rom 2:27 And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law?

How can uncircumcision fulfil the Law. Only by the Christ that is Born Again in you. We have Him, let us put Him on.

Rom 13:14 But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh, to [fulfil] the lusts [thereof].

Gal 5:16 [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

Gal 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

Phl 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, [being] of one accord, of one mind.

The Mind of Christ, which we have, to be renewed in our minds that we might accomplish the Law in us.

Col 1:25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

What fulfils the Word of God?

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; (((((which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:))))) Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

What is our labor? Not the striving of the keeping of the commandments, but the striving according to His working in us Mightily.

This is what will make us perfect. The perfection of Christ Himself in us.

Rom 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

The circumcision of the Heart is how we keep the righteousness of the Law, who God has made unto us, Him as our righteousness.

Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

We are getting close, I now hear what you are saying.

In Christ: Phillip

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RevBenjamin

That is why I like to quote this verse from Revelation 14:12: "Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Yeshua".

My friend, verse 13 TRUMPS verse 12, explains verse 12, and is the fulfillment of our obedience to any and all commandments!


Revelation 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.


This is the fulfillment of our Blessed rest in Christ.

Those who have the 'mark of the beast' have no rest, day or night. They are still of the old creation under the Old Covenant

R.G. Benjamin

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RevBenjamin,

Your statement quote: [i]"verse 13 TRUMPS verse 12, explains verse 12, and is the fulfillment of our obedience to any and all commandments!"[/i].

This is not a card game, where one verse trumps another.

Besides that, verse 13 in NO WAY negates verse 12 which clearly says that the end-time saints are those who will be keeping the commandments of God and who have the faith of Yeshua.

There are other witnesses to this in the book of Revelation 12:17 says: "Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who [b]keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Yeshua[/b]".
Revelation 22:14,15 says: "Blessed are those who [b]do his commandments[/b], that they may have the right to the tree of life, and that they may enter the city by the gates. Outside are the dogs and sorcerers and fornicators and murderers and idolaters, and every one who loves and practices falsehood".

RevBenjamin, we differ greatly in our understanding of these verses - I wish you well on your journey.

Thank you.
In the name of Him who comes as it is written in the volume of the book, even Yeshua the Messiah,
Stephen.

R
RevBenjamin

Besides that, verse 13 in NO WAY negates verse 12 which clearly says that the end-time saints are those who will be keeping the commandments of God and who have the faith of Yeshua

Maybe I should have said verse 13 is the Crowning Glory of verse 12.

Romans 6 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? [u]3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? [/u] Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

The works that follow are the works of Christ.

We enter into the Finished works upon the Cross, thereby entering His Rest.

Those in Hebrews 4 could not enter in. We cannot keep a Sabbath Rest anymore than we can keep salvation. It is a Gift. Entering His Rest is to enter into eternal life. We enter at Calvary, crucified with Christ and raised up together with Him, a New Creation.

My prayer for you Stephen is to come face to face with the truth of the Gospel.

R.G. Benjamin

J
jayyou

Hello to all the saints here.

Please allow me to make a couple of comments.

Dear brother RevBenjamin.

You quoted: """""Those who have the 'mark of the beast' have no rest, day or night. They are still of the old creation under the Old Covenant"""""

Dear brother, where did you find this in the bible, please back this up with scriptures?

What you call bondage, or mark of the beast in my bible it is describe as something quite different.

Exodus 25:16 And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you.

Yes, the TESTIMONY, and that is why the ark was called

Exodus 25:21-22 "You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you. 22 "And there I will meet with you, and I will speak with you from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are on the ark of the Testimony.

======

You say that you are in the new covenant, could you please explain to me this.


Exodus 34:28 And He wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments.

Exodus 25:16 "And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you.

Exodus 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

Here we have the Ten Commandments being described into three different ways,

On - The words of the covenant.

Two - Testimony of God.

three - All the words that God Commanded you.


My questions to you.

Can you point out to us, what are the words of the New covenant, or if you want to call it this way , what are the laws that God promised to put in our hearts and minds?

Scriptures clearly identifies the Ten Commandments as the Words of the Covenant.


Second question is, How you being a Gentile, include yourself in a Covenant that was given to Israel and the House of Judah and Exclude yourself from the words of the Covenant, Please if you say that the Ten commandments are not longer the words of the Covenant then please point out to us where is the substitute for them?


Plese when answering this questions, if you will answer them for I had asked other questions to you and you totally ignored my message.

would you please romans two, for I believe that is how we Gentiles include ourselves into the New Covenant.

Yes, by becoming an inwardly Jew, and having my heart circumcised.

God bless you in your walk with Him.....


Jayme


J
jayyou

Dear brother Strider100,

I would like to ask you a question.

I was writing to dear Brother RevBenjamin, and I came accross this verse.

Exodus 25:16 "And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you.


Exodus 25:21 and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you.


Exodus 25:22 "And there I will meet with you, and I will speak with you from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim which are on the ark of the Testimony, about everything which I will give you in commandment to the children of Israel.

That lead me to research what the word Testimony means. and I have these two definitions that I found at wikipedia in the religious section.

============

FIRST DEFINITION.

In religion, testimony generally involves an inward belief or outward profession of faith or of personal religious experience.


Now, It got me thinking why would God call the Ten Commandments His Testimony, for according to this description, Testimony is the outward profession of faith or religious experience.

Now, we all know that

1 John 4:8 He who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Jesus summed up the law in two great commandments.

Matthew 22:37-39 Jesus said to him, " 'You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.' 38 "This is the first and great commandment. 39 "And the second is like it: 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.'
======


Having said that I was thinking about the first definition oF Testimony.

When God Gave us the Ten commandments, he gave us an outward profession of His Character, which is Love.

He gave two tablets = two great commandments.

First tablet = How man should love God, containing four commandments, in which the SAbbath is the longst of the all. God explained it in more detail then any other commandment.

Second tablet = How man should love each other.

============

SECOND DEFINITION.

testifying is also referred to as "bearing one's testimony," and often involves the sharing of personal experience—ranging from a simple anecdote to an account of personal revelation—followed by a statement of belief that has been confirmed by this experience.

============

Jesus said:

Matthew 10:32-33 " Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven.


Romans 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.


As I mentioned before the second description of Testimony, is referred to as "bearing one's testimony," and often involves the sharing of personal experience.

Aplying this to our lives should mean that we must share to other what Jesus has done in our lives, therefore confessing Him before men.

Remember what Jesus said after healing the men with demons.

Luke 8:39 "Return to your own house, and tell what great things God has done for you." And he went his way and proclaimed throughout the whole city what great things Jesus had done for him.

+++++++

I then was thinking about that text in Revelation.

Revelation 12:17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.


Now, According to the two definitions given, I believe that this verse could be read like this.

who keep the Testimony of God, Ten Commandments.

====
which defines love between men toward God and men toward men

Exodus 25:21 and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you.
====

and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

===
Which means bearing witness of what Jesus did for us. by Confessing Him as the Saviour of the world.

Philippians 2:11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


I would love to hear your comments on this.

May the love of Christ our Lord be indwelling in all His Children.


R
RevBenjamin

Jayyou,

unbelief=faithlessness. Not all men have faith. There is only one kind of faith that pleases God. Obedience.

What do you hear?

There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

The old creation is at war with the New Creation.

The old creation is controlled by who?

The New Creation is controlled by who?


But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.


R.G. Benjamin

J
jayyou

Dear brother RevBenjamin,

Dear brother I asked you quite a few question on my last post to you.

I am not sure if your last message tried to answer some of my question but I failed to see it.

Please go back to my last message and if you have the time, could you please at least answer some of my question to you.

Thank you....

J
jayyou

sorry I pushed the send buttom twice and it duplicated the same message.

R
RevBenjamin

Jayyou,
Your questions have been answered time and time again. There is nothing I can add.


Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, [u]all things are become new.[/u]

R.G. Benjamin


C
Christinyou

Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

Hbr 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Hebrews 8:10-12 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.

For this covenant to be in effect, all shall know Him. This cannot take effect until Christ sits on David's Throne after the tribulation and the millennial kingdom has come. Then is when He will put His Laws in the minds and Hearts of Israel.

This cannot be for the Body of Christ for our commission is reconciliation and teach every nation.

"And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

This is the implementing of the New Covenant with Israel, Not the Body of Christ.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This is the New covenant in His Blood for the Body of Christ His Church;

Hbr 12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than [that of] Abel.

Hbr 8:13 In that he saith, A new [covenant], he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old [is] ready to vanish away.

It has vanished away and is no longer in effect.
For this is the New Covenant in His Blood.

Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth [to be] a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Jhn 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

This will not happen in the millennial Kingdom on this earth, for He will be here and they have no need to fast or partake of His blood and flesh in remembrance of Him.

This is our remembrance and fast and our covenant.

Mark 2:18-20 And the disciples of John and of the Pharisees used to fast: and they come and say unto him, Why do the disciples of John and of the Pharisees fast, but thy disciples fast not? And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days.

This is for His Bride the Body of Christ His Church, not the people of Israel whom God will put His words in their minds and hearts.

Luk 22:19 And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake [it], and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1Cr 11:24 And when he had given thanks, he brake [it], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1Cr 11:25 After the same manner also [he took] the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink [it], in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come.

No words in our hearts or minds, for we are in Christ and have His Mind, and only need renew our minds to His Mind, The Person of Christ and another Person, which is the Holy Spirits wonderful work in the Body of Christ His Church.

The Person of Christ Himself in in us, we are present with the Lord and have no need as Israel will to have anything written in our hearts and minds, for we clearly have "The Mind of Christ" in us now.

That is why the old is passed away and the New has already come in the lives of the Born Again son's of God. Which the nation of Israel will never be. As individual believers, yes, just like the rest of the Body of Christ.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Those in the millennium will not be in Christ, for He will be with them and have to write His Word in the minds and hearts at that time, not for us the Body of Christ, for We Have The Mind of Christ. So let us renew our minds to this miracle that is Birthed in us, and truly see the things of the Kingdom of God where we are already seated in the Heavenlies with Him.

In Christ, a new creature: Phillip


S
sscr01

God's Covenant with man is The Ten Commandments. It is just as much a trangression of the law to break the fourth commandment, as any of the other nine.

"Who forgiveth all thine iniquities,(lawlessness) who healeth all thy diseases...As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions (of the law: 1 John 3:4) from us...TO SUCH AS KEEP HIS COVENANT, AND TO THOSE THAT REMEMBER HIS COMMANDMENTS TO DO THEM." Ps 103.

How do you know, that, you are forgiven, if you do not keep ALL of His commandments?

(Interesting word - "Remember.")

C
Christinyou

And they did not and Killed the Son of Glory.

God's covenant with man is believe on the Name of the Son of God and you will be saved.

Remember; Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

John 3:14-23 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized. And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

In Christ: Phillip

S
sermonindex

Greetings,

There was some mention earlier about the New Covenant. Someone said that it was quote: [i]"This is the implementing of the New Covenant with Israel, Not the Body of Christ.[/i]

The 'body of Christ' is made up of Israel and the gentiles. The first church was entirely Jewish for the first 10 years. There is only one NEW COVENANT mentioned in scripture....

The New Covenant was made with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. Not with the gentiles. Gentiles who repent and believe can be brought into the commonwealth of Israel. They can then share in the rights and responsibilities of the New Covenant. They are welcome. They were always welcome to attach themselves to the people of Israel as Ruth did: [b]"Your people shall be my people, and your God, my God".[/b]

Gentiles, who in Paul's words, were "separated from Messiah, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel, and [b]strangers to the covenants of promise,[/b] having no hope and without God in the world", are now invited to be [b]grafted in[/b], to share in the richness of the cultivated olive tree.

Yeshua is the mediator of this New Covenant, with the House of Israel and the House of Judah. The gentiles never had an "Old Covenant", but are invited to enter into this New Covenant, also having the laws of YHVH put into them and written on their hearts. The Old Covenant, given at Mt Sinai, to Israel, written on tablets of stone, is now promised to be written on the hearts of [b]all[/b] who turn to YHVH, through the Good News proclaimed by Yeshua. The New Covenant will see ultimate fulfillment when the Kingdom of God is realised, and Messiah Yeshua is ruling and reigning from Jerusalem.

[u][b]THE NEW COVENANT[/b][/u]

[u]Luke 22:19-20[/u] "And likewise the cup after supper, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood."

[u]Matthew 26:28[/u] "For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins."

[u]Mark 14:24[/u] "And he said to them, "This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many"

[u]1 Corinthians 11:25[/u] "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me." ."

[u]Hebrews 12:24[/u] "and to Yeshua, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks more graciously than the blood of Abel.".

[u][b]Text of the New Covenant: Hebrews 8: 8-12 (from Jeremiah 31: 31-35):[/b][/u]

"The days will come, says YHVH,
when I will establish a [b]new covenant with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah;[/b]

not like the covenant that I made with their fathers
on the day when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of the land of Egypt;
for they did not continue in my covenant,
and so I paid no heed to them, says YHVH.
[b]This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days, says YHVH:
I will put my laws into their minds,
and write them on their hearts,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.[/b]

And they shall not teach every one his fellow
or every one his brother, saying, "Know YHVH"
for all shall know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
For I will be merciful toward their iniquities,
and I will remember their sins no more."

and...

[u]Hebrews 9:15[/u] says: " Therefore he is the mediator of a '[b]new covenant[/b], so that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has occurred which redeems them from the [b]transgressions[/b] under the first covenant.

Under the New Covenant, because of my High Priest, Yeshua,
Stephen

C
crsschk

[i]Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.[/i] Gal 4:21-31

C
crsschk

[i]O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain. He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham. For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them. But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith. And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise. Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator. Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law. But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.[/i] Gal 3:1-29

C
crsschk

[i]I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.[/i] Gal 1:6-9

J
jayyou

dear brother revbenjamin,

thank you for your reply.

I went back in all the messages and did not find the answers for my questions.

I hope I am not abusing your patience, but could you please answer them again, I would appreciate if you can.

If you can't answer or don't want to, I will understand.

here are the questions again.


I have a few question for you, I would love to know what you think about this....


++++++++

=====If the law are done away, why was the ark that contains the law of God shown to John?

====what is still inside the ark?

====tell me about the fourth commandment of the law that was put inside the ark down here on earth, taking into account that whatever was done in the earthly tabernacle was a copy of the heavenly one?

====Whatever is inside the ark that was seen by John, Are there ten Commandments there or nine?


=====One last thing, Please explain to me Romans chapter two, where Paul is describing circumcision of the flesh and the inwardly Jew?

Would love to hear your comments about this....

God bless us all.....

C
Christinyou

Stephen you need to study the word more.

Acts 11:20 And some of them were men of Cyprus and Cyrene, which, when they were come to Antioch, spake unto the Grecians, preaching the Lord Jesus.

The Jews were agreeable to the Messiah, but not Jesus of Nazareth as the Messiah.

Paul tried many times to give them the Gospel of Christ Jesus, but they would not.

Albert Barnes' Notes on the Bible
Ac 11:20
Verse 20. Were men of Cyprus and Cyrene. Were natives of Cyprus and Cyrene. Cyrene was a province and city of Libya in Africa. It is at present called Cairoan, and is situated in the kingdom of Barca. In Cyprus, the Greek language was spoken; and from the vicinity of Cyrene to Alexandria, it is probable that the Greek language was spoken there also. From this circumstance it might have happened that they were led more particularly to address the Grecians who were in Antioch. It is possible, however, that they might have heard of the vision which Peter saw, and felt themselves called on to preach the gospel to the Gentiles.
Spake unto the Grecian. proV touV ellhnistaV To the Hellenists. This word usually denotes, in the New Testament, those Jews residing in foreign lands who spoke the Greek language. Cmt. on Ac 6:1. But to them the gospel had been already preached; and yet in this place it is evidently the intention of Luke to affirm, that the men of Cyprus and Cyrene preached to those who were not Jews, and that thus their conduct was distinguished from those Ac 11:19 who preached to the Jews only. It is thus manifest that we are here required to understand the Gentiles, as those who were addressed by the men of Cyprus and Cyrene. In many Mss. the word used here is ellhnaV, Greeks, instead of Hellenists. This reading has been adopted by Griesbach, and is found in the Syriac, the Arabic, the Vulgate, and in many of the Fathers. The AEthiopic version reads, "to the Gentiles." There is no doubt that this is the true reading; and that the sacred writer means to say that the gospel was here preached to those who were not Jews, for all were called Greeks by them who were not Jews, Ro 1:16. The connexion would lead us to suppose that they had heard of what had been done by Peter, and that, imitating his example, they preached the gospel now to the Gentiles.

{*} "Grecians" "Hellenists"
{a} "preaching" Ac 6:1; 9:29

Then Paul stopped preaching the Christ of the Gospel to the Jews.

Acts 28:27-28 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them. Be it known therefore unto you, that the salvation of God is sent unto the Gentiles, and that they will hear it.

Even the first name of Christian was unto the Greeks, Gentiles that is; Acts 11:25-26 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul: And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

And so Paul was an Apostle to the Gentiles, even though he tried to give the Gospel to the Jewish Nation. They would not accept it and the Gospel went to the Gentile, this does not stop those that were Jews that believed on the Name of The Lord Jesus Christ and were saved, by Paul's preaching becoming Christians. Individuals saved into the kingdom of God, not Gentile or Jew, but Christ Ones, thus Christians.

In Christ: Phillip

S
sermonindex

[i]You see brother how many [b]myriads[/b] there are among the Jews of those who have believed and they are [b]all zealous for the Law[/b]. And they have been told about you that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. "What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come, so do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow, take them, purify yourself according to the Law along with them, pay their expenses at the end of their purification in order that they may shave their heads and [b]all may know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly keeping the Law.[/b]"[/i] Acts 21:19-26

The tens of thousands of Jewish believers in Jerusalem, including the apostles, were all zealous for the Law of Moses. They had heard rumors about Paul that he taught Jews to reject the Law of Moses, to stop circumcising their children, and to forsake the Jewish customs. The leaders knew that these rumors were false. It was necessary for Paul to clearly and unequivocally show to everyone that the rumors were false.

Stephen.

C
crsschk

On the contrary;

[b]And they are all zealous of the law[/b] - They still observe the Law of Moses. The reference here is to the law respecting circumcision, sacrifices, distinctions of meats and days, festivals, etc. It may seem remarkable that they should still continue to observe those rites, since it was the manifest design of Christianity to abolish them. But we are to remember:

(1) That those rites had been appointed by God, and that they were trained to their observance.

(2) that the apostles conformed to them while they remained at Jerusalem, and did not deem it best to set themselves violently against them, Act_3:1; Luk_24:53.

(3) that the question about their observance had never been agitated at Jerusalem. It was only among the Gentile converts that the question had risen, and there it must arise, for if they were to be observed, they must have been imposed upon them by authority.

(4) the decision of the council Acts 15 related only to the Gentile converts. It did not touch the question whether those rites were to be observed by the Jewish converts.

(5) it was to be presumed that as the Christian religion became better understood - that as its large, free, and catholic nature became more and more developed, the special institutions of Moses would be laid aside of course, without agitation and without tumult. Had the question been agitated at Jerusalem, it would have excited tenfold opposition to Christianity, and would have rent the Christian church into factions, and greatly retarded the advance of the Christian doctrine. We are to remember also:

(6) That, in the arrangement of Divine Providence, the time was drawing near which was to destroy the temple, the city, and the nation, which was to put an end to sacrifices, and effectually to close forever the observance of the Mosaic rites. As this destruction was so near, and as it would be so effectual an argument against the observance of the Mosaic rites, the Great Head of the church did not suffer the question of their obligation to be needlessly agitated among the disciples at Jerusalem.

Act 21:21 -
[b]And they are informed of thee[/b] - Reports respecting the conduct of Paul would be likely to be in circulation among all at Jerusalem. His remarkable conversion, his distinguished zeal, his success among the Gentiles, would make his conduct a subject of special interest. Evil-minded men among the Jews, who came up to Jerusalem from different places where he had been, would be likely to represent him as the decided enemy of the laws of Moses, and these reports would be likely to reach the ears of the Jewish converts. The reports, as they gained ground, would be greatly magnified, until suspicion might be excited among the Christians at Jerusalem that he was, as he was reputed to be, the settled foe of the Jewish rites and customs.

[b]That thou teachest all the Jews[/b] ... - From all the evidence which we have of his conduct, this report was incorrect and slanderous. The truth appears to have been, that he did not enjoin the observance of those laws on the Gentile converts; that the effect of his ministry on them was to lead them to suppose that their observance was not necessary - contrary to the doctrines of the Judaizing teachers (see Acts 15); and that he argued with the Jews themselves, where it could be done, against the obligation of those laws and customs since the Messiah had come. The Jews depended on their observance for justification and salvation. This Paul strenuously opposed; and this view he defended at length in the Epistles which he wrote. See the Epistles to the Romans, the Galatians, and the Hebrews. Yet these facts might be easily misunderstood and perverted, so as to give rise to the slanderous report that he was the enemy of Moses and the Law.

[b]Which are among the Gentiles[/b] - Who live in pagan countries. The Jews were extensively scattered and settled in all the large towns and cities of the Roman empire.

[b]To forsake Moses[/b] - The Law and the authority of Moses. That is, to regard his laws as no longer binding.

[b]To walk after the customs[/b] - To observe the institutions of the Mosaic ritual. See the notes on Act_6:14. The word “customs” denotes “the rites of the Mosaic economy the offering of sacrifices, incense, the oblations, anointings, festivals, etc., which the Law of Moses prescribed.”

Act 21:23 -
[b]We have four men[/b] - There are with us four men. It is evident that James and the elders meant to say that these men were connected with them in the Christian church; and the fact shows that the Christians at Jerusalem did not disregard the institutions of Moses, and had not been so far enlightened in the doctrines of Christianity as to forsake yet the ceremonial rites of the Jews.

[b]Which have a vow on them[/b] - Which have made a vow. See the notes on Act_18:18. From the mention of shaving the head (in Act_21:24), it is evident that the vow which they had taken was that of the Nazarite; and that as the time of their vow was about expiring, they were about to be shaven, in accordance with the custom usual on such occasions. See the notes on Act_18:18. These persons Paul could join, and thus show decisively that he did not intend to undervalue or disparage the laws of Moses when those laws were understood as mere ceremonial observances.

[i]Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, [b]are nothing[/b]; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.[/i] Act 21:24

Act 21:24 -
[b]Them take[/b] - Take with you. Join yourself with them.

[b]And purify thyself with them[/b] - Join them in observing the forms of purification prescribed by the Law of Moses in the observance of the vow of the Nazarite. The purifying here refers to the vows of sanctity which the Nazarites were to observe. They were to abstain from wine and strong drink; they were to eat no grapes, moist or dried; they were to come near no dead body, nor to make themselves “unclean” for their father, mother, brother, or sister, when they died Num_6:3-7; and they were to present an offering when the days of the vow were completed, Num_6:8.

[b]And be at charges with them[/b] - Share with them the expense of the offerings required when the vow is completed. Those offerings were a ram of a year old for a burnt-offering, a sheep of the same age for a sin-offering, a ram for a thank-offering, a basket of unleavened cakes, and a libation of wine. See Num_6:13-20.

[b]That they may shave their heads[/b] - The shaving of the head, or the cutting off the hair which had been suffered to grow during the continuance of the vow Num_6:5, was an observance indicating that the vow had been performed. Paul was requested to join with them in the expense of the offerings, that thus, the whole of the ceremonies having been observed, their heads might be shaved as an indication that every part of the vow had been complied with.

[b]And all may know[/b] - By the fact of your observance of one of the rites of the Mosaic religion, all may have evidence that it is not your purpose or practice to speak contemptuously of those rites, or to undervalue the authority of Moses.

[b]Are nothing[/b] - Are untrue, or without any foundation.

[b]Walkest orderly[/b] - That you live in accordance with the real requirements of the Law of Moses. To walk, in the Scriptures, often denotes “to live, to act, to conduct in a certain manner.” All, probably, that they wished Paul to show by this was, that he was not an enemy of Moses. They who gave this counsel were Christians, and they could not wish him to do anything which would imply that he was not a Christian.

Barnes

S
sermonindex

Crsschk: quote: [i]"Re: Nonsense
On the contrary;
And they are all zealous of the law - They still observe the Law of Moses. The reference here is to the law respecting circumcision, sacrifices, distinctions of meats and days, festivals, etc. It may seem remarkable that they should still continue to observe those rites, since it was the manifest design of Christianity to abolish them."[/i]

[i][b]"since it was the manifest design of Christianity to abolish them"[/b][/i]------------Indeed it was and still is amongst most, contrary to the words of YHVH, when he said that His Servant would [b]"magnify his law and make it glorious"[/b].

Opposition to the Eternal Torah of YHVH runs deep. Against the teachings of the one they claim to follow. It was not the 'manifest design' of Messiah to abolish the Law, as he said: [u][b]"Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them[/u]. For truly, I say to you, [u]till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.[/u] Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."[/b]

Revelation 12:17 "Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on [u]those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Yeshua[/u].

There is NO prophesy in the "Old Testament" that foretells the abolishment of the Torah of YHVH by a new institution. The New Covenant, made with Israel, clearly writes the Torah on the hearts and minds of those who come into it, causing them to walk in His ways. The Bereans checked everything in the "Old Testament", the Hebrew Scriptures, to 'see if they be so' -- No foretelling of abolishment of the eternal law of God.

...."[i]distinctions of meats[/i].....these are not "rites", and are never called "rites" in the Scripture, but part of the eternal Law of God. Certain meats were declared an [b]abomination[/b] to God, and are still shown to be such in Isaiah 66:17: "Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating swine's flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together, says YHVH".

Romans 2:13: "For it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but the [b]doers of the Law[/b] who will be justified".

Stephen.


S
sscr01

"Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: YEA, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW." Rom 3:31.

"By faith Abraham...obeyed." Heb 11:8.

"The obedience of faith." Rom 15:26.

"Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law:FOR SIN IS THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW." 1 John 3:4.

The fourth commandment, is just that - a commandment.

C
crsschk

How long do you guy's wish to keep this up? You are both stubborn as a rock and keep attempting to advert the meaning and intentions of those verses you apply esigesis to (reading into) rather than properly exegeting the passages.

I am no theologian in the proper sense but you are confusing the issues greatly. The section in Acts that was brought forth to prove your case does not do that for you. Read through the whole context, at least as far back as chapter 12 through to the end of the book. Paul is making a concession to the Jews as he has done and stated elsewhere;

[i]For though I be free from all men, yet have I made myself servant unto all, that I might gain the more. And unto the Jews I became as a Jew, that I might gain the Jews; to them that are under the law, as under the law, that I might gain them that are under the law; To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law. To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some. And this I do for the gospel's sake, that I might be partaker thereof with you.[/i] 1Co 9:19-23

[i]Give none offence, neither to the Jews, nor to the Gentiles, nor to the church of God: Even as I please all men in all things, not seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be saved.[/i] 1Co 10:32,33

Within the account in Acts;

[i]Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could [b]not be justified by the law of Moses.[/b] Beware therefore, lest that come upon you, which is spoken of in the prophets;

Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish: for I work a work in your days, a work which ye shall in no wise believe, though a man declare it unto you.

And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. And the word of the Lord was published throughout all the region. But the Jews stirred up the devout and honourable women, and the chief men of the city, and raised persecution against Paul and Barnabas, and expelled them out of their coasts. But they shook off the dust of their feet against them, and came unto Iconium. And the disciples were filled with joy, and with the Holy Ghost. [/i] Act 13:39-51

[i]And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them. But there rose up certain of the [b]sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.[/b] And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter. And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe. And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; [b]And put no difference between us and them[/b], purifying their hearts by faith. Now therefore [b]why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples[/b], which [u]neither our fathers nor we were able to bear[/u]? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them. And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name. And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things. Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world. [b]Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood. For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day[/b]. Then pleased it the apostles and elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas, and Silas, chief men among the brethren: And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia: Forasmuch as we have heard, that [b]certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment:[/b] It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth. For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to [b]lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well.[/b] Fare ye well. So when they were dismissed, they came to Antioch: and when they had gathered the multitude together, they delivered the epistle: Which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation. And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.
[/i]
Act 15:4-32

[i]Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. [/i] Mat 5:17-20


[b]Mat_5:17-48.[/b] [i]Identity of these principles with those of the ancient economy; in contrast with the reigning traditional teaching.[/i]

[i]Exposition of Principles (Mat_5:17-20).[/i]

[b]Think not that I am come[/b] — that I came.

[b]to destroy the law, or the prophets[/b] — that is, “the authority and principles of the Old Testament.” (On the phrase, see Mat_7:12; Mat_22:40; Luk_16:16; Act_13:15). This general way of taking the phrase is much better than understanding “the law” and “the prophets” separately, and inquiring, as many good critics do, in what sense our Lord could be supposed to meditate the subversion of each. To the various classes of His hearers, who might view such supposed abrogation of the law and the prophets with very different feelings, our Lord’s announcement would, in effect, be such as this - “Ye who tremble at the word of the Lord, [i]fear[/i] not that I am going to sweep the foundation from under your feet: Ye restless and revolutionary spirits, [i]hope[/i] not that I am going to head any revolutionary movement: And ye who hypocritically affect great reverence for the law and the prophets, [i]pretend[/i] not to find anything in My teaching derogatory to God’s living oracles.”

[b]I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil[/b] — Not to subvert, abrogate, or annul, but to establish the law and the prophets - to unfold them, to embody them in living form, and to enshrine them in the reverence, affection, and character of men, am I come.

Mat 5:18 -
[b]For verily I say unto you[/b] — Here, for the first time, does that august expression occur in our Lord’s recorded teaching, with which we have grown so familiar as hardly to reflect on its full import. It is the expression manifestly, of [i]supreme legislative authority[/i]; and as the subject in connection with which it is uttered is the Moral Law, no higher claim to an authority [i]strictly divine[/i] could be advanced. For when we observe how jealously Jehovah asserts it as His exclusive prerogative to give law to men (Lev_18:1-5; Lev_19:37; Lev_26:1-4, Lev_26:13-16, etc.), such language as this of our Lord will appear totally unsuitable, and indeed abhorrent, from any creature lips. When the Baptist’s words - “I say unto you” (Mat_3:9) - are compared with those of his Master here, the difference of the two cases will be at once apparent.

[b]Till heaven and earth pass[/b] — Though even the Old Testament announces the ultimate “perdition of the heavens and the earth,” in contrast with the immutability of Jehovah (Psa_102:24-27), the prevalent representation of the heavens and the earth in Scripture, when employed as a popular figure, is that of their [i]stability[/i] (Psa_119:89-91; Ecc_1:4; Jer_33:25, Jer_33:26). It is the enduring stability, then, of the great truths and principles, moral and spiritual, of the Old Testament revelation which our Lord thus expresses.

[b]one jot[/b] — the smallest of the [i]Hebrew[/i] letters.

[b]one tittle[/b] — one of those little strokes by which alone some of the [i]Hebrew[/i] letters are distinguished from others like them.

[b]shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled[/b] — The meaning is that “not so much as the smallest loss of authority or vitality shall ever come over the law.” The expression, “till all be fulfilled,” is much the same in meaning as “it [i]shall[/i] be had in undiminished and enduring honor, from its greatest to its least requirements.” Again, this general way of viewing our Lord’s words here seems far preferable to that [i]doctrinal[/i] understanding of them which would require us to determine the different kinds of “fulfillment” which the [i]moral[/i] and the [i]ceremonial[/i] parts of it were to have.

Mat 5:19 -
[b]Whosoever therefore shall break[/b] — rather, “dissolve,” “annul,” or “make invalid.”

[b]one of these least commandments[/b] — an expression equivalent to “one of the least of these commandments.”

[b]and shall teach men so[/b] — referring to the Pharisees and their teaching, as is plain from Mat_5:20, but of course embracing all similar schools and teaching in the Christian Church.

[b]he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven[/b] — As the thing spoken of is not the practical breaking, or disobeying, of the law, but annulling or enervating its obligation by a vicious system of interpretation, and teaching others to do the same; so the thing threatened is not exclusion from heaven, and still less the lowest place in it, but a degraded and contemptuous position in the present stage of the kingdom of God. In other words, they shall be reduced by the retributive providence that overtakes them, to the same condition of dishonor to which, by their system and their teaching, they have brought down those eternal principles of God’s law.

[b]but whosoever shall do and teach them[/b] — whose principles and teaching go to exalt the authority and honor of God’s law, in its lowest as well as highest requirements.

[b]the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven[/b] — shall, by that providence which watches over the honor of God’s moral administration, be raised to the same position of authority and honor to which they exalt the law.

Mat 5:20 -
[b]For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees[/b] — The superiority to the Pharisaic righteousness here required is plainly in [i]kind[/i], not [i]degree[/i]; for all Scripture teaches that entrance into God’s kingdom, whether in its present or future stage, depends, not on the degree of our excellence in anything, but solely on our having the character itself which God demands. Our righteousness, then - if it is to contrast with the [i]outward[/i] and [i]formal[/i] righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees - must be [i]inward, vital, spiritual[/i]. Some, indeed, of the scribes and Pharisees themselves might have the very righteousness here demanded; but our Lord is speaking, not of persons, but of the [i]system[/i] they represented and taught.

[b]ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven[/b] — If this refer, as in Mat_5:19, rather to the earthly stage of this kingdom, the meaning is that without a righteousness exceeding that of the Pharisees, we cannot be members of it at all, save in name. This was no new doctrine (Rom_2:28, Rom_2:29; Rom_9:6; Phi_3:3). But our Lord’s teaching here stretches beyond the present scene, to that everlasting stage of the kingdom, where without “purity of heart” none “shall see God.”

Jamieson, Fausset and Brown

...."distinctions of meats.....these are not "rites", and are never called "rites" in the Scripture, but part of the eternal Law of God. Certain meats were declared an abomination to God, and are still shown to be such in Isaiah 66:17: "Those who sanctify and purify themselves to go into the gardens, following one in the midst, eating swine's flesh and the abomination and mice, shall come to an end together, says YHVH".

[i]And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.[/i] Act 10:13-15

C
Christinyou

Quote: "How long do you guy's wish to keep this up?"

Until They have a revelation of the Christ within them.

Rom 16:25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

Gal 1:12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:

1Pe 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Hard and good work Mike.

Your brother in Christ: Phillip

C
Christinyou

Quote: by sscr01 out of context.

""Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: YEA, WE ESTABLISH THE LAW." Rom 3:31.""

We only establish the Law by the Law Keeper Himself, Jesus Christ in us.

Romans 3:9-13 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:

This is the Law, including the Sabbath Day.

Romans 3:19-20 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Without the Law::::::

Romans 3:21-22 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

Your Sabbath is by the Faith of Jesus Christ unto all them that believe.

You fall short of The Sabbath if you keep it as a day of the Law.

Romans 3:23-24 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

The Only Sabbath is the redemption in Jesus Christ Himself. Your keeping of the Sabbath Day as a fulfilling Law of your salvation is sin, instead of the Person of Jesus Christ the only Justifier of him that believeth in Jesus.

Romans 3:26-27 To declare, I say, at this time His righteousness: that He might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: (Added for context: of the Sabbath Day), but by the law of faith.

Is your Faith in Jesus Christ the True Sabbath Himself, where we can only achieve the Rest God swear by Himself that we should enter.

Now!!!! we establish the Law by Him that is in us. He is our Sabbath and our rest and All that we are, as He has been made to us by God, wisdom, righteousness, sanctification and redemption, for sin and the Law.

Romans 3:29-31 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.

Not by keeping the Law, or the Sabbath Day, but by the Faith of the Son of God Himself who is the established Law Keeper, not us by any keeping of any Law.

In Christ; Phillip

C
crsschk

If the law are done away, why was the ark that contains the law of God shown to John?

====what is still inside the ark?

====tell me about the fourth commandment of the law that was put inside the ark down here on earth, taking into account that whatever was done in the earthly tabernacle was a copy of the heavenly one?

====Whatever is inside the ark that was seen by John, Are there ten Commandments there or nine?


[b]Rev 11:19[/b] -
A similar solemn conclusion to that of the seventh seal, Rev_8:5, and to that of the seventh vial, Rev_16:18. Thus, it appears, the seven seals, the seven trumpets, and the seven vials, are not consecutive, but parallel, and ending in the same consummation. They present the unfolding of God’s plans for bringing about the grand end under three different aspects, mutually complementing each other.

[b]the temple[/b] — the sanctuary or [i]Holy place[/i] ([i]Greek[/i], “naos”), not the whole [i]temple[/i] ([i]Greek[/i], “hieron”).

[b]opened in heaven[/b] — A and C read the article, “the temple of God “which is” in heaven, was opened.”

[b]the ark of his testament[/b] — or “... His [i]covenant[/i].” As in the first verse the earthly sanctuary was [i]measured[/i], so here its heavenly antitype is laid open, and the antitype above to the [i]ark of the covenant[/i] in the Holiest Place below is seen, the pledge of God’s faithfulness to His covenant in saving His people and punishing their and His enemies. Thus this forms a fit close to the series of trumpet judgments and an introduction to the episode (the twelfth and thirteen chapters) as to His faithfulness to His Church. Here first His secret place, the heavenly sanctuary, is opened for the assurance of His people; and thence proceed His judgments in their behalf (Rev_14:15, Rev_14:17; Rev_15:5; Rev_16:17), which the great company in heaven laud as “true and righteous.” This then is parallel to the scene at the heavenly altar, at the close of the seals and opening of the trumpets (Rev_8:3), and at the close of the episode (the twelfth through fifteenth chapters) and opening of the vials (Rev_15:7, Rev_15:8). See on Rev_12:1, note at the opening of the chapter.

JFB

"antitype";

[b]Antitype
AN'TITYPE[/b]
, n. [Gr. against, and a type, or pattern.]

A figure corresponding to another figure; that of which the type is the pattern or representation. Thus the paschal lamb, in scripture, is the type of which Christ is the antitype. An antitype then, is something which is formed according to a model or pattern, and bearing strong features of resemblance to it.

In the Greek liturgy, the sacramental bread and wine are called antitypes, that is, figures, similitudes; and the Greek fathers used the word in a like sense.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Types and shadows, analogies, antitypes ...
I am want to say that the whole New Testament is in need of review but at least Hebrews, Romans, Galations, for starters. As contentious and stubborn as some of this has been I must say thanks for sending me back to read a great deal again. But not piecemeal! We have got to get away from this wholesale it seems in many places on this forum. It is evident when we are taking things well of context to prove our ... whatever it is we are trying to prove. Read whole books in their context and circumstances, consult the commentaries of minds more advanced and studied than your own, read through this link and challenge yourself; [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=15692&forum=36&post_id=&refresh=Go]How to Get the Most from Reading your Bible[/url]

J
jayyou

Dear brother crsschk,

Thank you for your reply.

Dear brother, I had posted some questions to dear brother RevBenjamin.

But I guess that I will not get an answer from him, so thank you for trying to answer.
However, I cannot see how the text that you posted here answers my question.

I am very aware of type and antitype, I know the definition and what they represent.

I believe that my questions should be very simple to answer.

Please if you have the time could you go back to my questions and answer them individually.

Here they are.

If the law are done away, why was the ark that contains the law of God shown to John?

====what is still inside the ark?

====tell me about the fourth commandment of the law that was put inside the ark down here on earth, taking into account that whatever was done in the earthly tabernacle was a copy of the heavenly one?

====Whatever is inside the ark that was seen by John, Are there ten Commandments there or nine?


Thank you...

Jayme


C
Christinyou

Deu 31:9 And Moses wrote this law, and delivered it unto the priests the sons of Levi, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, and unto all the elders of Israel.

Deu 31:25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying,

Deu 31:26 Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee.

Rev 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

The answer is God no longer dwells in the Temple on Earth. The temple is now in men. That is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory". His Glory is no longer in the Holy of Holies in the Temple in Jerusalem, His Shekinah Glory is no longer on earth and the Mercy Seat was now in Heaven, which is Christ. We are the temple now and all that was in the earthly temple is now in the heavenly Temple, which is Christ In you the Hope of Glory and we are seated with Him already in the Heavenlies.

1Cr 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.

1 Corinthians 9:13 Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?

The Altar of God is Now the temple of men, Where Christ is, The old things of the Ark of the Covenant are passed away from this earth and are now the New Covenant in the Blood of Christ, show to John in Heaven, This Christ, who lives in the temple of man, that is in believes, and we are seated in the Heavenlies with Him.

1Cr 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

1Cr 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Thus we are the temple of God in Christ Jesus, seated in the Heavenlies with Him, which puts the fulfillment of the Law and the covenants in us, which we are witness of, in the heavenly Ark that John saw as a testament that the Ark of the Covenant no longer is on earth, except in the temple of Man who believes and is a new creature in Christ Jesus.

Col 2:12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with [him] through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

We are in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus who is not the old Sabbath ritual or the keeping of the old Law, but the New Sabbath and covenant in His Blood, The new power of God in Christ Jesus which works in us mightily.

This is where we are and this is where our Sabbath is.

Eph 1:3 Blessed [be] the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly [places] in Christ:

The Sabbath is for Man, not Man for the Sabbath.

Ephesians 1:17-22 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church,

In Who?

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Eph 3:10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly [places] might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

Christ is the fulfillment of the Law in temples not made with hands but by the manifold wisdom of God by the Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Hbr 9:11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

Hbr 9:24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, [which are] the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

The Sabbath on earth? Passed away, The Sabbath in the Heavenlies and in the Born Again, is Come.

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

Is He come in your quickened flesh to contain the Very Presence of God in Christ Jesus? He who makes the Sabbath Perfect in us, not a day of Keeping but a 24-7 Sabbath in Christ Jesus, not forsaking the assembling of yourselves as the time grows near. We are in the Sabbath always, but keep to each other and assemble yourselves and "Love one another, even as I have love you and gave myself for you" and given you commandment.

In Christ: Phillip

J
jayyou

Dear brother Phillip,

Thank you for answering my question, Please allow me to comment on what you said.

Quote:"""The answer is God no longer dwells in the Temple on Earth. The temple is now in men."""

Dear brother your whole answer was about the temple down here on earth. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit for sure. However, the Temple that John saw in heaven, is not the temple down here on earth.

Your answer was based on the earthly temple, and my question was not that.

Revelation clearly says this.

Revelation 11:19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple.

THE TEMPLE OF GOD IN HEAVEN.

Note that it is not talking about the earthly temple.

What John saw was the heavenly temple and the Ark was shown to him.

Now,why was the Ark displayed to John? Just keep in mind that it is talking about the heavenly temple.

Your answer is correct if we are talking about the earthly temple, but we are not talking about it, We are talking about God's temple in Heaven.

++++++++


Quote:""""The old things of the Ark of the Covenant are passed away from this earth and are now the New Covenant in the Blood of Christ"""""


Dear brother that does not make sense to me at all. You said that the Ark of the covenant is passed away and yet it is being displayed in the Heavenly Temple, and just after John saw it, look what happend.


Revelation 11:19 And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

Wow, for something that is passed away or some would say of no value, what happens after it was displayed makes no sense.

But if you think that what is inside of the Ark is the Testimony of God, that would make perfectly sense to have that sort of power displayed after it was shown. By saying that it is the Testimony of God that is inside the Ark, this is what I mean.

Exodus 25:16 "And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you.

Exodus 25:21 "You shall put the mercy seat on top of the ark, and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you.

Forgive me for saying this but such a display of power such as the one that John saw after having seen the Ark which you say are old things and passed away, makes no sense at all. For inside of it is not less than the Testimony of the Almighty God.

============

Quote:"""""The Sabbath is for Man, not Man for the Sabbath.""""""

You are definetely right here dear brother. If the Sabbath is for man then how are you making use of it, by treating what God sanctified like any other day? I do not believe that is what Jesus meant when He said that.


This is what He meant with that.


Matthew 12:5-8 "Or have you not read in the law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless? 6 "Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple. 7 "But if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless. 8 "For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath."


Jesus explained that that are certain things done in the Sabbath that does not count as sin. for Instance.

the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are blameless?

and then Jesus said that right there there was someone much much more important that the Temple, more important than the Sabbath, because He was creator of the Sabbath and therefore, Lord of it as well. Just in case you want to argue who created the Sabbath, here it is.

John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

According to John, everything that was created in the Beginning, was created through Him, and without Him not would have been created.

Then Jesus openly declared Himself as the creator there by saying that He is the Lord of it all and more important than it all, and yet they failed to recognise that. And He said,

Matthew 12:6-7 "Yet I say to you that in this place there is One greater than the temple. 7 "But if you had known what this means, 'I desire mercy and not sacrifice,' you would not have condemned the guiltless.


Not only they fail to recognise that Jesus was more important than anything, therefore Lord of it all but they had already comdemned Him, They thought that the Sabbath commandment was more important than the thou shall not Kill, but we know what James says:


James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.

So, when Jesus said:

The Sabbath was made for men and not men for the Sabbath.

So dear brother, make a righteous judgment and use the Sabbath for the purpose that it was created.

========


Please read again my questions of the Ark in the heavenly temple and answer them, having in mind the temple of God in heaven and not the temple down here on earth.

God bless you...


L
LoveHim

[b]1 timothy 1:8-11[/b]
8We know that the law is good if one uses it properly. 9We also know that law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious; for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, 10for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine 11that conforms to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which he entrusted to me.

the word shows us that the law was not made for the righteous man, but for the unrighteous. why?? to show us our sin that we might turn to Christ.

[b]galatians 3:24-25[/b]
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

[b]galatians 3:2-4[/b]
2 This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

[b]romans 4:1-16[/b]
1 What then shall we say that Abraham our father has found according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.

5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:
7 “ Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
And whose sins are covered;
8 Blessed is the man to whom the LORD shall not impute sin.”

9 Does this blessedness then come upon the circumcised only, or upon the uncircumcised also? For we say that faith was accounted to Abraham for righteousness. 10 How then was it accounted? While he was circumcised, or uncircumcised? Not while circumcised, but while uncircumcised. 11 And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had while still uncircumcised, that he might be the father of all those who believe, though they are uncircumcised, that righteousness might be imputed to them also, 12 and the father of circumcision to those who not only are of the circumcision, but who also walk in the steps of the faith which our father Abraham had while still uncircumcised.

13 For the promise that he would be the heir of the world was not to Abraham or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14 For if those who are of the law are heirs, faith is made void and the promise made of no effect, 15 because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression.
16 Therefore it is of faith that it might be according to grace, so that the promise might be sure to all the seed, not only to those who are of the law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all

[b]galatians 2:21[/b]
21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”

phil

C
Christinyou

Christ is no longer on earth physically, but He is in you Spiritually, Making Him our lives.

Galatians 2:20-21 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

"Yet not I", but who? "but Christ liveth in me".

The Sabbath is no longer on earth, but in Heaven, as the Ark of the Covenant is also. You yourself ask what was in the Ark? If the Ark contains the commandments and they are Gods and Christ is the only fulfiller of the whole Law, and if He is in us, where is the Sabbath and the Commandments?

They are in us, "but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me."

This is where our Sabbath is, by Faith, not by works in the Keeping of a Day but the whole spiritual understanding that Christ being the Word is now in us by Faith in Grace.

1 Peter 1:23-25 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away: But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you.

Don't worship a corruptible day, but worship the Incorruptable Seed, The Word Himself who is our daily rest and Sabbath and all in all.

Who is the Word? John 1:1-4 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

Making Him our all in all, that also making Him our Sabbath. "Seek ye first the Kingdom of Heaven and all these things will be added unto you."

Don't Seek the Day of The Sabbath, but seek Him, for men by the Cross, that the Day was made for and see our True Sabbath, Jesus Christ our Day Life, for we are in the Light, not in darkness.

In Christ: Phillip

S
sscr01

Elohiym (the Triune God) said, "Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour and do all thy work. But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates.

FOR in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: WHEREFORE the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it." Ex 20:8-11.

If you break this commandment, you are transgressing His law.

The Beast calls the changing of the Sabbath to Sunday, her "MARK" of authority, as in Dan 7:25.

Jesus is the "Lord of the Sabbath." Mt 12:8; Mk 2:28; Lu 6:5.

Jesus prophesied the Sabbath being kept during The Great Tribulation, and we are not there yet. Mt 24:20. (He, also, said, He was coming after the Tribulation Mt 24:29-31.)

Isaiah prophesied the Sabbath being kept in His coming Kingdom. Isa 66:22,23.

He is, only, Lord, to those who obey Him.

C
crsschk

[b]Rev 1:10 -
I was in the Spirit[/b]
- This cannot refer to his own spirit, for such an expression would be unintelligible. The language then must refer to some unusual state, or to some influence that had been brought to bear upon him from without, that was appropriate to such a day. The word “Spirit” may refer either to the Holy Spirit, or to some state of mind such as the Holy Spirit produces - a spirit of elevated devotion, a state of high and uncommon religious enjoyment. It is clear that John does not mean here to say that he was under the influence of the Holy Spirit in such a sense as that he was inspired, for the command to make a record, as well as the visions, came subsequently to the time referred to. The fair meaning of the passage is, that he was at that time favored, in a large measure, with the influences of the Holy Spirit - the spirit of true devotion; that he had a high state of religious enjoyment, and was in a condition not inappropriate to the remarkable communications which were made to him on that day.

The state of mind in which he was at the time here referred to, is not such as the prophets are often represented to have been in when under the prophetic inspiration (compare Eze_1:1; Eze_8:3; Eze_40:2; Jer_24:1), and which was often accompanied with an entire prostration of bodily strength (compare Num_24:4); 1Sa_19:24; Eze_1:28; Dan_10:8-10; Rev_1:17), but such as any Christian may experience when in a high state of religious enjoyment. He was not yet under the prophetic ecstasy (compare Act_10:10; Act_11:5; Act_22:17), but was, though in a lonely and barren island, and far away from the privileges of the sanctuary, permitted to enjoy, in a high degree, the consolations of religion - an illustration of the great truth that God can meet his people anywhere; that, when in solitude and in circumstances of outward affliction, when persecuted and cast out, when deprived of the public means of grace and the society of religious friends, He can meet them with the abundant consolations of His grace, and pour joy and peace into their souls. This state was not inappropriate to the revelations which were about to be made to John, but this itself was not that state. It was a state which seems to have resulted from the fact, that on that desert island he devoted the day to the worship of God, and, by honoring the day dedicated to the memory of the risen Saviour, found, what all will find, that it was attended with rich spiritual influences on his soul.

[b]On the Lord’s day[/b] - The word rendered here as “Lord’s” (κυριακῇ kuriakē), occurs only in this place and in 1Co_11:20, where it is applied to the Lord’s supper. It properly means “pertaining to the Lord”; and, so far as this word is concerned, it might mean a day “pertaining to the Lord,” in any sense, or for any reason; either because he claimed it as his own, and had set it apart for his own service, or because it was designed to commemorate some important event pertaining to him, or because it was observed in honor of him. It is clear:

(1) That this refers to some day which was distinguished from all other days of the week, and which would be sufficiently designated by the use of this term.

(2) that it was a day which was for some reason regarded as especially a day of the Lord, or especially devoted to him.

(3) it would further appear that this was a day particularly devoted to the Lord Jesus; for:

(a)\tthat is the natural meaning of the word “Lord” as used in the New Testament (compare the notes on Act_1:24); and

(b)\tif the Jewish Sabbath were intended to be designated, the word “Sabbath” would have been used.

The term was used generally by the early Christians to denote the first day of the week. It occurs twice in the Epistle of Ignatius to the Magnesians (about 101 a.d.), who calls the Lord’s day “the queen and prince of all days.” Chrysostom (on Ps. 119) says, “It was called the Lord’s day because the Lord rose from the dead on that day.” Later fathers make a marked distinction between the “Sabbath” and the “Lord’s day”; meaning by the former the Jewish “Sabbath,” or the seventh day of the week, and by the latter the first day of the week, kept holy by Christians. So Theodoret (Fab. Haeret. ii. 1), speaking of the Ebionites, says, “They keep the Sabbath according to the Jewish law, and sanctify the Lord’s day in like manner as we do” (Prof. Stuart). The strong probability is, that the name was given to this day in honor of the Lord Jesus, and because he rose on that day from the dead. No one can doubt that it was an appellation given to the first day of the week; and the passage, therefore, proves:

(1) that that day was thus early distinguished in some special manner, so that the mere mention of it would be sufficient to identify it in the minds of those to whom the apostle wrote;

(2) that it was in some sense regarded as devoted to the Lord Jesus, or was designed in some way to commemorate what he had done; and,

(3) that if this book were written by the apostle John, the observance of that day has the apostolic sanction. He had manifestly, in accordance with a prevailing custom, set apart this day in honor of the Lord Jesus. Though alone, he was engaged on that day in acts of devotion. Though far away from the sanctuary, he enjoyed what all Christians hope to enjoy on such a day of rest, and what not a few do in fact enjoy in its observance. We may remark, in view of this statement:

(a) that when away from the sanctuary, and deprived of its privileges, we should nevertheless not fail to observe the Christian Sabbath. If on a bed of sickness, if in a land of strangers, if on the deep, if in a foreign clime, if on a lonely island, as John was, where we have none of the advantages of public worship, we should yet honor the Sabbath. We should worship God alone, if we have none to unite with us; we should show to those around us, if we are with strangers, by our dress and our conversation, by a serious and devent manner, by abstinence from labor, and by a resting from travel, that we devoutly regard this day as set apart for God.

(b) We may expect, in such circumstances, and with such a devout observance of the day, that God will meet with us and bless us. It was on a lonely island, far away from the sanctuary and from the society of Christian friends, that the Saviour met “the beloved disciple,” and we may trust it will be so with us. For on such a desert island, in a lonely forest, on the deep, or amid strangers in a foreign land, he can as easily meet us as in the sanctuary where we have been accustomed to worship, and when surrounded by all the privileges of a Christian land. No man, at home or abroad, among friends or strangers, enjoying the privileges of the sanctuary, or deprived of those privileges, ever kept the Christian Sabbath in a devout manner without profit to his own soul; and, when deprived of the privileges of public worship, the visitations of the Saviour to the soul may be more than a compensation for all our privations. Who would not be willing to be banished to a lonely island like Patmos, if he might enjoy such a glorious vision of the Redeemer as John was favored with there?

[b]And heard behind me a great voice[/b] - A loud voice. This was of course sudden, and took him by surprise.

[b]As of a trumpet[/b] - Loud as a trumpet. This is evidently the only point in the comparison. It does not mean that the tones of the voice resembled a trumpet, but only that it was clear, loud, and distinct like a trumpet. A trumpet is a well-known wind instrument, distinguished for the clearness of its sounds, and was used for calling assemblies together, for marshalling hosts for battle, etc. The Hebrew word employed commonly to denote a trumpet שׁופר showpar means “bright” and “clear,” and is supposed to have been given to the instrument on account of its clear and shrill sound, as we now give the name “clarion” to a certain wind-instrument. The Hebrew trumpet is often referred to as employed, on account of its clearness, to summon people together, Exo_19:13; Num_10:10; Jdg_7:18, etc.; 1Sa_13:3; 2Sa_15:10.


Barnes Notes

C
Christinyou

Get out of the old testament law and get into the Grace of Christ and into His Body the Church and out of the set aside wife of God, Israel, and into the Bride of Christ, His Body the Church which were first call Christian in Antioch, New Testament Body of Christ the Church, not the old testament children of Israel, which we are not.
Jesus Christ the Son of God is not Michael either.

IS THE CHURCH (spiritual) ISRAEL?

We come now to something that is crucial and needs to be defined to understand the new covenant. Is the Church Israel? For if it is, we are obligated to keep Sabbath day at least in a general sense. If the Church is not Israel then what sense would there be to keep the Sabbath. In the Scripture we find the Church is not Israel the nation, but a separate entity under an entirely new covenant. Israel is called the wife of Jehovah in the Old Testament, while the Church is called the bride of Christ in the New Testament. This shows distinctions in how God relates to each, and how each group is related to God. The word Israel is always descriptive of the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It was Jacob whose name was changed to Israel and had 12 sons that became the nation of Israel. It is the physical posterity of Jacob that is Israel, this is what makes one Jewish.

Many transfer the promises and the covenants of Israel to the Church, but there is absolutely no reason to do this. The Church is not spiritual Israel. Look up this phrase; you’ll never find the term or concept in the Bible. There are only two verses that are used to validate this view, both are unsupported when they are read in their full context.

There was no Church in the Old Testament because there was no incarnation, no revelation of the Son, nor his sacrifice that broke down the middle wall of partition that separated the Jews from the Gentiles (Eph.2:14). For the Church is made up of both believing Jews and Gentiles, not so for Israel.

Gal.3:29 says that those who belong to Christ are Abraham’s seed. The seed of Abraham does not mean one is Israel. It means those who are justified by faith are spiritual descendants of Abraham but this does not make them descendants of Jacob, who is Israel. They partake in the spiritual blessings that come through Israel. While there are two different groups of people who can be descendants of Abraham one of which is the Arabs, they do not share in the promises of Jacob. Only Israel is descended from the physical posterity of Jacob. God had specially promised to Israel salvation and the believing Jews received it through the gospel. But Paul explains that not all the natural descendants of Jacob were embraced in this “Israel;” for that “they are not all Israel, which are of Israel” (Rom. 9:6). As Paul already declared in an earlier chapter: “He is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly” (Rom. 2:28, 29). The seed which is Israel is from Jacob and the apostle and other writers make a clear distinction between this and Abraham’s seed.

“But they have not all obeyed the gospel” ( Rom. 10:16). They have not all responded to God’s call to repentance and faith in Jesus Christ. This is foretold by Isaiah, who is quoted by Paul in Rom. 9:27; that only a remnant of the natural descendants of Jacob would obtain the salvation of God. “Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the remnant hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded” (Rom. 11:7).

Gal. 3:7 “Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham." Being a son of Abraham does not make one a Jew, being a son of Jacob does, so a gentile can be a son of Abraham. But Jew’s are a son of Abraham and of Jacob.

As Paul stated in Rom. 4:11-16, the children of Abraham, are those who have the faith of Abraham, whether by their natural birth they were Jews or Gentiles. This is detailed in Galatians 3 and 4; Gal. 3:26 “For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus” both Jews and Gentiles are spiritual brethren in the body of Christ.” The apostle says, to Gentile believers: “And if ye be Christ’s then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise” (Gal. 3:29). So those who accept the Gospel both Jews and Gentiles are of Abraham's seed, but only those who are physically Israel are from Jacobs seed.

The other verse is Gal.6:16 where Paul is addressing both believing Jews and Gentiles in the church “As many as walk according to this rule (Gentile believers) and upon “the Israel of God.” This can be made clear by the preceding verses v.12-13 where Paul is tackling the topic of circumcision and the Jews influence to have the gentiles circumcised. He then tells us the mandatory rite of the Abrahamic covenant is not applicable to the believer but it is the cross that is necessary to make a new creation. In its context this term means Jews who are believers, who believe salvation is by faith in Christ contrary to what the Judaizer's were teaching that the law was needed also. Those (Jews) who obey this are the Israel of God (the remnant). Paul also addresses this in Rom.9:6-8 that there are two Israel's, one that consists of Jews and the elect, the true Israel which are the physical posterity and also have the faith of Abraham, they are the Israel of God mentioned in Gal.6. As Paul states, “ for they are not all Israel who are of Israel” (Rom.9:6). There is also “Israel” after the flesh found in 1 Cor.10:18. The Church is never called spiritual Israel or is a new Israel replacing the old. Nor does it say believers become Jews. Both gentiles and Jews participate together in the New Covenant. as Eph. 2 addresses the middle wall of partition being broken down and God making a new entity. The church is neither Jew or Gentile but consists of both. The two put together make one “new man,” a third entity that is not Israel nor gentile. The word Israel is used 73 times in the New Testament, not once is it used for the Church.

Romans 2:28-29, “For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.” Notice that the whole chapter is addressing the Jews. Within Paul’s theme of the book of Romans he addresses mankind that can be outlined in 3 portions. The whole world is under condemnation of sin1:18-3:30; then he addresses the Gentiles 1:18-2:16; He addresses the Jews 2:17-3:20.

According to Paul’s specific aim in this portion of the letter, not all the descendants from Jacob are Israel; as he states on 9:6 “They are not all Israel who are Israel.” Not all who are named Jews are truly Jews, the true Israel of God (the Jews) are those who believe in the Messiah. Rom.2:17- 20 starts with the greater responsibility the Jews have. He points to the law that was not given to the Gentiles but the nation of Israel, and they have the responsibility of knowing God.

It never says anything about a gentile being a spiritual Jew but is explaining that one is really Jewish not by the keeping of the law, but having a born again experience. Paul is directing the teaching of the promised new covenant specifically to the Jews who believe, although the Gentiles are included. Paul is not teaching Gentiles become spiritual Jews but not all Jews are true Jews. There are Jews who believe and the Jews who are in unbelief. Just as it is put in other areas of a remnant among Israel, the true believers and a non-remnant, believing Israel as the Israel of God.

A believing Gentile becomes a spiritual son of Abraham which is an inheritor of the spiritual blessings God promised to the Jews, they are grafted into the covenant he made with Israel.

As for Israel, the Jews, Jer.30:18, 31:8 “Behold I will bring them from the north country and gather them from the ends of the earth.”

Isa.43:5 “I will bring your descendants from the east and gather you from the west...”

It is a nation that is being gathered today for the tribulation in their original homeland Israel, they are gathered first in unbelief until that fateful day where in Romans 11 Paul says they will all be saved, after the fullness of the gentiles has come in. The Church (made up of both Jews and Gentiles) and is dealt with differently than the nation of Israel, God obviously has a different plan for both.

letusreason.org

In Christ: Phillip

J
jayyou

Dear brother Phillip,

Thank you for replying to my last post.

Even though I mentioned the fact that John made it very clear that the sanctuary he saw was in heaven, and He saw the ark and after that there was a great display of power.

You said:""""Christ is no longer on earth physically, but He is in you Spiritually, Making Him our lives."""

Forgive me for saying this but I don't believe that vision given to us by John has anything to do with Physically or Spiritually tabernacle, for both of these two was and is down here on earth. Physical = Tabernacle made by hands, and Spiritual = Us. the first one doesn't exist anymore but the latter are still here, which is us.

This is what John saw,

Revelation 11:19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.


Questions:

What does it talk about?
Temple of God.
Where is the Temple?
Heaven.
what was seen there?
The Ark.
Where is the Ark?
In the Temple of God in Heaven.


Now, if you cannot see that John is not talking about the earthly tabernacle, then I must say that your understanding of scriptures needs a check up.

Taking into account that the Temple we are talking about here is the Heavenly Temple.

How would you answer these questions?

why was the ark displayed to John?

Just to show that whatever is inside has passed away?

It doesn't make sense.


I don't neet to ask what is inside the ark for we all know that?

===============

Then you made a comment about the Sabbath.

Quote:"""The Sabbath is no longer on earth, but in Heaven, as the Ark of the Covenant is also. You yourself ask what was in the Ark? If the Ark contains the commandments and they are Gods and Christ is the only fulfiller of the whole Law, and if He is in us, where is the Sabbath and the Commandments?""""


Dear brother, please let me rewrite this for you and then you ask yourself if what you wrote here makes any sense.


The Ten Commandments tells us what we should or should not do.

For instance, Remember the SAbbath to keep it Holy, do not do any work in it.

very simple. but you say that Christ fulfilled it for you, therefore you can any work in that day and that does not count as sin to you.

ok, Now let's apply it to the rest of the Ten Commandments, let's see how the others stand the test.


It says,

Do not kill,

Do not Kill is no longer on earth, but in Heaven, as the Ark of the Covenant is also. You yourself ask what was in the Ark? If the Ark contains the commandments and they are Gods and Christ is the only fulfiller of the whole Law, and if He is in us, where is the commandment of do not Kill?


Now, Applying the same thing as we did for the Sabbath, we have this.

Breaking the Sabbath law by working in it.
Breaking the Do not kill law by killing someone.
Now that Jesus fulfilled the law for me.

I can work on the sabbath and not sin.
Can I also kill and not sin?
Can I lie and not sin?
can I worship other gods and not sin?
and the list goes on.

If you want to show us some logic for doing away with one commandment, it has to stand the test for all the others. otherwise the theory does not hold water.

=====


Before I make a comment on this I want you to know that I keep His commandments because I love Him and He abides in me.

1 John 3:22-24 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment. 24 Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.
========

Quotes:

""" not by works in the Keeping of a Day """"

"""Don't worship a corruptible day"""

"""Don't Seek the Day of The Sabbath"""


Dear brother what you have descbribed here, was described in a very different manner by the prophets and God Himself.

This is how the Sabbath should be referred to.

Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it.

Sanctified = Holy.

Exodus 16:23 a holy Sabbath to the LORD.

Holy again.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Holy Again.

Exodus 35:2 but the seventh day shall be a holy day for you, a Sabbath of rest to the LORD.

Holy again.


Nehemiah 9:14 You made known to them Your holy Sabbath,

Here Nehemiah declares it not only to be Holy but as God's Holy Day, Not israel Holy day.


Isaiah 58:13 From doing your pleasure on My holy day,

Holy Day again.


Just to end this I want to take you to what God showed Peter in regard of the Gentiles.

Remember when God told Peter not to call common something that He had cleansed.

Acts 10:15 "What God has cleansed you must not call common."


Now, if we should not call common something that was unclean but now is clean, what do you thing we should call something that God Called Holy since the foundation of the world?
Something that was sanctified, Hallowed by God Himself.

You can call it whatever you want but please do not teach us to do the same.


God bless you....

R
RevBenjamin

Jayyou,

The Ark of the Covenant was a sign to Israel of God's loyalty and love through out their wilderness journey and battles. This sign of the Ark in Revelation 11:19 is the assurance of God's faithfulness and love and His Promises to Israel, as the chapters proceed on in chapters 12 and 13, also concerning Israel and the future Millennial Kingdom.

In Revelation 11:19, you appear to be taking a verse, and disconnecting it from previous verses and chapters hereafter. In verse 19, the Kingdom of God is seen retrospectively as having fully come...that is, referring to verse 15. The Kingdoms of this world have now become the Kingdom of our Lord and His Christ. These Kingdoms 'now' are in the hands of Satan ruled by anti-Christ.

These Kingdoms were offered Jesus in His 40 days of testing, Satan offering Him the Kingdoms then, if He would bypass the cross. Not only did Jesus fulfill the everlasting Covenant from the foundation of the world, at Calvary , winning victory over Satan in redeeming mankind, He will also win, in this final battle, the Kingdoms of this World, and overthrow Satan once and for all.

These Chapters fulfill the final, ‘putting all things Under Him’. These things must take place prior to His Reign on earth. There is to be a war in the Heavens like never before. This war, waged against the faithful remnant of Israel, again, please see in Chapters 12 and 13.


R.G. Benjamin

J
jayyou

Hi there dear brother RevBenjamin,

We were discussing something sometime ago and you just disappeared, I am glad that you are back.

Please allow me to comment on the message that you posted.

Quote:"""""The Ark of the Covenant was a sign to Israel of God's loyalty and love through out their wilderness journey and battles. This sign of the Ark in Revelation 11:19 is the assurance of God's faithfulness and love and His Promises to Israel, as the chapters proceed on in chapters 12 and 13, also concerning Israel and the future Millennial Kingdom. """"


Oh yes, the old argument that there is in fact a division between the people of God.

But then we go back to the old argument of the old and New Covenant, which were given to Israel and the House of Judah, remember?

Yes of course, when it suits you then there is no division between us and israel, we are all heirs of the Promises of the covenants,but then somehow the division creeps up when it comes to certain things. Don't you find it interesting?

This is what Paul said:

Galatians 3:26-29 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Oh, yes. there is another place that Pauls tells how we, Gentiles, Circumcise our hearts and we become inwardly jews, Remember. Could it be that the ark of the covenant is also being displayed for us inwardly jews?

Romans 2:26-29 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

=====

But hang on, are you saying that there is a division?

IS THERE A DIVISION OR ISN'T THERE?
Make up your mind.

=====
=====
=====


Dear brother, the second part of your message, you quoted this.

""""In Revelation 11:19, you appear to be taking a verse, and disconnecting it from previous verses and chapters hereafter.""""


You are confusing me,

First God gave the Ten commandnents, then Christ fulfilled it, therefore they are done away, then Christ returns sets up His kingdoms, which you say is for literal Israel only, then He establishes the very same commandments that you said he has abolished on the cross?

What sort of theology is this, I do not believe what you said makes any sense at all.

You put a sequence of events that will validate the commandments again. These things must happen before the ark has becomes important again?

Only the Fact that the Ark of His covenant was shown to John and the power that was displayed after that, tells me that His Commandments and Laws are very much binding to all of us, and I will make my words the very same words that was pronounced by David.


Psalm 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul; The testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple;

Talking about Testimony of the Lord.

Exodus 25:16 "And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you.


Psalm 1:1-2 Blessed is the man Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly, Nor stands in the path of sinners, Nor sits in the seat of the scornful; 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night.

Psalm 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O my God, And Your law is within my heart."

Romans 7:22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.

=========

Test drive the Sabbath, you life will never be the same.

in Love......

Jayme

R
RevBenjamin

Oh, yes. there is another place that Pauls tells how we, Gentiles, Circumcise our hearts and we become inwardly jews, Remember. Could it be that the ark of the covenant is also being displayed for us inwardly jews?

Jayyou,

Is there a distinction made here between Jew and Gentile? It would appear there are two groups here.

Are you one of the 144,000? OR are you in a group no man could number? If you believe you are part of the 144,000, please explain why. If not, please explain why.

Do you see any mention of keeping a sabbath leading to being washed in the Blood of the Lamb?

It would appear here all glory goes to the Lamb of God.

Revelation 7
And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads. And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel. Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand. [u]After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, [/u]stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen. And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, [u]and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. [/u]Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.

R.G. Benjamin

C
Christinyou

jayyou,


Was Christ created or birthed?

Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Hbr 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten [son],

1Jo 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Are the children of Israel created or birthed by God?

Even unto the head of Israel, he was told he must be born again. From a created being who cannot see the kingdom of God, unto a born again spiritual being, a son of God, even to be able to see the things of the Kingdom. Which includes the Ark in the heavenlies. Which Christ is in us for He is our Life, not the Law and commandments.
By His life in us spiritually, that is the only way we can see or enter the Kingdom of God.

John 3:3-6 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.


Are the children and son's of God created or birthed by God?

John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Where are the children of God, "son's of God", at this time?

1 Peter 1:1-5 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Eph 1:20 Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places],

Eph 2:6 And hath raised [us] up together, and made [us] sit together in heavenly [places] in Christ Jesus:

Now why was John able to see the Ark in the Kingdom of Heaven?

Christ in you the Hope of all Glory:

Phillip


J
jayyou

Dear brother RevBenjamin,

Thank you for your reply and please allow me to comment on what you said.

Quote: """"Is there a distinction made here between Jew and Gentile? It would appear there are two groups here."""""

Galatians 3:27-29 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.


Colossians 3:10-11 and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, 11 where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all.


I do not believe I need to add anything else to this text, it is pretty much self explanatory.

========

Quote:"""""Are you one of the 144,000? OR are you in a group no man could number? If you believe you are part of the 144,000, please explain why. If not, please explain why."""""


Dear brother I believe in the spiritual Israel, the inwardly Jew, Romans 2. I also have the circumcision of christ.

Colossians 2:11 In Him you were also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the sins of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ,

Romans 2:26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision?

Romans 2:28-29 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

======

Am I one of the 144.000? I would love to be one of them, but if not then I would also be extremely happy to be found in the other group.

Here is a site that explains what I believe to 144000 to be.

"http://www.adventistbiblicalresearch.org/documents/144,000greatmultitude.htm"


============

I have some questions for you.

Where are you going to live in heaven?

What is the name of the city you are going to live?

I was wondering what gate will you enter in?

Revelation 21:12 Also she had a great and high wall with twelve gates, and twelve angels at the gates, and names written on them, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:

++++++++++


Quote:"""""Do you see any mention of keeping a sabbath leading to being washed in the Blood of the Lamb?"""""


No, it does say it here, but in another place it says this.

Revelation 12:17 who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

I do not believe that God the Father and God the Son have a set of different rules, but I have heard people saying that now only the commandments of Jesus that is important, I am not sure if you fall into this category, but John clearly said that the saints do keep the commandments of God. In case you do not know what are the commandments of God, Here they are.

Exodus 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Moses two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

and in another place, God calls the Ten Commandments His very Testimony.


Exodus 25:21 and in the ark you shall put the Testimony that I will give you.

======

The interesting thing is that you all say that the commandments were done away, but none of you agree how they were done away.

Brother Phillip has a very different theory than yours.

You say there is two people, and yet the covenants were given only to them, but you include yourself somehow to be partake of the promises but when it comes to the duty to the words of the covenant then, well they are not for me only for Israel.

For instance...

Hebrews 8:8 He says: "Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah --

Oh yes, then you will quote all the texts that I gave you saying that in Christ we are all heirs of the promises, that we are one in Christ.

Please don't pick and choose.


In love Jayme

J
jayyou

Dear brother Phillip,

Thank you for your message, please allow me to comment on it.

Quotes:""""

Was Christ created or birthed?

Are the children of Israel created or birthed by God?

Are the children and son's of God created or birthed by God?

Where are the children of God, "son's of God", at this time?"""""

=======

I am sorry but I just cannot follow your line of thought.

I will try again.

The temple that John saw in heaven cannot be us dear brother.

We are down here you are not in heaven, not yet.

Revelation talks about the temple of God.

Revelation 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God,

We will be a pillar in the temple.

so the temple cannot be us.

Revelation 7:15 "Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple.


Revelation 11:19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple.

Again the temple of God that is in Heaven, not down here on earth.

Revelation 15:5 After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened.

Here is another verse that clearly says that temple of God is heaven, and it is the temple of the Testimony, what else is called the Testimony? The Very Ark that we are talking about, but then it says.

Revelation 15:6 - 16:1 And out of the temple came the seven angels having the seven plagues, clothed in pure bright linen, and having their chests girded with golden bands. 7 Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever. 8 The temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power, and no one was able to enter the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed. NKJ Revelation 16:1 Then I heard a loud voice from the temple saying to the seven angels, "Go and pour out the bowls of the wrath of God on the earth."


Again, this temple cannot be us, dear brother for it clearly states that the seven angels come out of it to pour the judgments on the inhabitants of the earth.

Now you do know that the tabernacle that moses built was a copy of the heavenly one, and if the one down here on earth was a copy of the heavenly one and in the earthly tabernacle there was an ark of the Testimony of God, why is it difficult for you to understand that in heaven there is a temple with everything that the earthly tabernacle had. Including the ark with the Ten Commandments.

but you do not want to see it do you?

So, again I will say,

According to Revelation 15:5-8, out of the temple came the angels, so it cannot be you and me. Or are you saying that the angels are going to come out of us, to pour judgemtns on us. It doesn't make any sense at all?


Now, according to the temple in revelation 15. Can you answer why was john shown the ark?

all you have done so far brother is to change the temple of God to something that suits your theory, but revelation 15 is also talking about the temple of God and it is not the spiritual temple.


God bless you.....

R
RevBenjamin

Again, this temple cannot be us,

John 2:19
Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Jayyou, what was Jesus referring to? Himself or a building?

I believe scripture teaches it is Jesus Christ, for no other, not even a building was raised in 3 days, but Christ Himself.

How are we united to this temple, Jesus Christ?


Ephesians 2:

19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; [u]In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:[/u]


Who is Paul talking about here? The Church, no longer Jew, no longer Gentile? Absolutely, for the CHURCH is His Body. And we His Body, are members of one another. How do we become members of the Body of Christ, this Temple?

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


Answer: I am Crucified with Christ

Romans 6
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.


Again Peter says:


1 Peter 2: 5Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner.

Those who have rejected the Gospel are the disobedient. Rejecting the Everlasting Covenant which contain the promises of eternal life.

Jayyou, do you know what other objects were placed in the Ark?

Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; [u]To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a [b]white stone,[/b] and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.[/u]


Revelation 7:15 "Therefore they are before the throne of God, and serve Him day and night in His temple.


Revelation 7 comes before Revelation 11.

Can you see those in Revelation 7 serve Him night and day? Does it say just one day out of a week? Or would this be a continual perpetual worship? Are these in heaven or on earth?

It would appear to be Heaven!

Hebrews 4:16
Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.


Who are those who are allowed to come boldly to the Throne of Grace even now?

[u]Where[/u]
is the Throne of Grace? How do you get access to this Throne?

[u]Who[/u]
made it possible to come face to face before the Throne?

R.G. Benjamin

J
jayyou

Dear brother RevBenjamin,

Once more thank you for your post. Please allow me to comment on it.

Quote:""""Jayyou, what was Jesus referring to? Himself or a building?

I believe scripture teaches it is Jesus Christ, for no other, not even a building was raised in 3 days, but Christ Himself.

How are we united to this temple, Jesus Christ?"""""


Ok, you are saying that the temple that John saw in heaven was Jesus Christ, and John saw inside the Temple and the Ark of the Testimony was there.

Now, this is a message that brother Phillip wrote to me On 2008/4/28 19:44. You can go back in the posts and you will find this. He said.

"""""The answer is God no longer dwells in the Temple on Earth. The temple is now in men. That is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory". His Glory is no longer in the Holy of Holies in the Temple in Jerusalem, His Shekinah Glory is no longer on earth and the Mercy Seat was now in Heaven, which is Christ. We are the temple now and all that was in the earthly temple is now in the heavenly Temple, which is Christ In you the Hope of Glory and we are seated with Him already in the Heavenlies.""""""

He said that

""""The temple is now in men"""

""""We are the temple now and all that was in the earthly temple is now in the heavenly Temple""""

Now, which one is it?

Now, we all know that there was an earthly temple, right?
and we all know that this temple was a copy of the temple in heaven.

Hebrews 8:5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle.

Now, this whole converstation started because of the Temple in heaven that John saw and inside of it there was the Ark of the Testimony.

In Hebrews, we have.

Hebrews 8:1-2 Now this is the main point of the things we are saying: We have such a High Priest, who is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, 2 a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected, and not man.

Again, John this.

Revelation 11:19 Then the temple of God was opened in heaven, and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple. And there were lightnings, noises, thunderings, an earthquake, and great hail.

Yes, The temple of God, Is this temple Jesus, Well in Hebrews we read that He is seated at the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens, a Minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle which the Lord erected.

Now, Is He the Minister or is He the Temple?

What did John see?
and the ark of His covenant was seen in His temple.

Oh yes, there is a covenant and the words of the covenant was put inside the ark .

Where was the ark of the testimony according to Hebrews?

Hebrews 9:3-4 and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All, 4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant;

Yes, Holiest of All.

Here we have

Revelation 14:17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

does this angel come out of Jesus?

or there is a temple in heaven just like Hebrews told us that the earthly tabernacle was a copy of the heavenly one?

Revelation 15:5-8 After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened. 6 And out of the temple came the seven angels having the seven plagues, clothed in pure bright linen, and having their chests girded with golden bands. 7 Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever. 8 The temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power, and no one was able to enter the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed.

Again, do all these angels come out of Jesus and on verse 8 is Jesus going to be filled with smoke?

Come on, why is it so hard to see that there is a temple in Heaven, there is a High Priest ministering for us, and there is the Ark right there with the Ten Commandments.

===========

quote: """Can you see those in Revelation 7 serve Him night and day? Does it say just one day out of a week? """"

Who on earth mentioned about one day of the week?

I don't even see a hint to that in these passage.

so I have no comment.

God bless....


R
RevBenjamin

Who on earth mentioned about one day of the week?

Jayyou, Please forgive me if I have misunderstood here, but I do believe you did. You are saying within the Ark are the 10 Commandments, of which the 4th is Sabbath Keeping.

Have you now changed the direction of this conversation?

Hebrews 9:3-4 and behind the second veil, the part of the tabernacle which is called the Holiest of All, 4 which had the golden censer and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which were the golden pot that had the manna, Aaron's rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant;


Let's look at this verse a moment. Is the manna also in Heaven? Is Aaron's rod that budded in Heaven as well?

Let's look at these other two articles, the Golden pot of manna, and Aaron's Rod, forming a conclusion that would pertain to all three items.


The first article in the ark of the covenant was the golden pot of manna. The manna of the wilderness, as we know, was a type of Christ.


There are multitudes who feast on His outward life found in the Gospels, but the hidden manna in the golden vessel behind the second veil represents Christ's inward life, which only the Holy Ghost can reveal. This is John 6.

Jesus said I was that Bread that came down from Heaven. They were to collect for 6 days, and collect enough on the 6th day to provide for the 7th. None was to be left.


We know the temporary substance of manna in the wilderness ceased once Israel passed into the Promise Land. What took it's place?


Exodus 16
5And it shall come to pass, that on the sixth day they shall prepare that which they bring in; and it shall be twice as much as they gather daily.


15And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat. This is the thing which the LORD hath commanded, Gather of it every man according to his eating, an omer for every man, according to the number of your persons; take ye every man for them which are in his tents. And the children of Israel did so, and gathered, some more, some less. And when they did mete it with an omer, he that gathered much had nothing over, and he that gathered little had no lack; they gathered every man according to his eating. And Moses said, Let no man leave of it till the morning. Notwithstanding they hearkened not unto Moses; but some of them left of it until the morning, and it bred worms, and stank: and Moses was wroth with them.

The manna that fell in the wilderness, remaining only a day.


The manna Jesus is talking about in John 6 is for an eternity. This manna in the Holy of Holies is the very life of Christ Himself. The manna in the golden pot in the ark kept sweet for hundreds of years. It surely has its spiritual significance for us. Gold in the Bible is a type of holiness and of divinity. When the Holy Ghost puts in us the Divine nature, the manna in our hearts will keep sweet.

John 6:I am that bread of life. Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead. This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die. I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world. The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you. Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.


In Rev. 2:17 we read, "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna." Now, the manna which fell on the ground in the wilderness was not hidden, but visible for everyone to see. This undoubtedly has reference to the manna in the ark behind the second veil. You will notice that it is promised to the overcomer,to the believer who dares to go behind the second veil, entering into the death of Jesus, and dying, not only to the world, with all of its attractions, but to his own fleshly, carnal nature.

Jayyou, before you can understand the Ark of the Covenant, you must understand many other spiritual concepts and realities.

Let's begin here and work forward.


R.G. Benjamin

C
Christinyou

Dear brother Phillip,

Thank you for your message, please allow me to comment on it.

Quotes:""""

Was Christ created or birthed?

Are the children of Israel created or birthed by God?

Are the children and son's of God created or birthed by God?

Where are the children of God, "son's of God", at this time?"""""

=======

""I am sorry but I just cannot follow your line of thought.""

=======

jayyou, The first question, is Christ earthly or heavenly, created or birthed, with the Father from the beginning or just brought to earth as a human being in Bethlehem, birthed like all other human beings?

Christ is the only begotten Son of God, making Him not a created being, earthly, but a Spiritual being, God. God His Father prepared Him a body a special body through Mary.

If Christ is God, then where is He Now? He as the Son of God is in Heaven seated at the right hand of the Father. He is in the believer and we are seated with Him, in this heavenly place.

If the Law still commands its keeping then why did Christ Come? He came to take away the first covenant and make the second a living covenant, not of dead works, but of living faith by the Life of Christ birthed in the believer, just like the Life of God was birthed in Christ.

Hebrews 10:1-10 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins. But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year. For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

It is through Him that we are wise unto righteousness, and sanctified and redeemed from the Law of Sin Which Adam broke and all have died since. Now all can life by the Life of Christ that is born again in them by the Spirit of God in Christ and The Water of Life in Christ Jesus.

Do you not see how obsolete the old testament Law is and there is no life in it for it killed all that live under it.

There is only life in Christ Jesus for God has made Him unto us all that is necessary to be called son's of the Living God and Brother in Christ Jesus with Him as the elder Brother and first Born among many.

1 Corinthians 1:17-31 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Glory in the Lord for He is our Sabbath and our all in all.

That is the explanation of the first question.

I will go on to the second later.

In Christ: Phillip

J
jayyou

Dear brother RevBenjamin,

Thank you again for your posts, Please allow me to comment on it.

Quote:""""You are saying within the Ark are the 10 Commandments, of which the 4th is Sabbath Keeping""""

Am I the one saying it, I think not. I believe that Scripture is very clear in regard to what is inside the Ark of the Covenant.

And I do not believe that there is any mistery in regard of the 4th commandmnet.

So, I ask you.

WHAT IS IN THE ARK THAT JOHN SAW IN HEAVEN?

If you answer should be commandments, then

WHAT IS THE 4TH COMMANDMENT?

I always try to answer the questions people ask me, but somehow I neve get mine answered, you all find a way to avoid them.

=======

Let's look at this verse a moment. Is the manna also in Heaven? Is Aaron's rod that budded in Heaven as well?

Let's look at these other two articles, the Golden pot of manna, and Aaron's Rod, forming a conclusion that would pertain to all three items.


Dear brother forgive me for saying it, your argument has no foundation in scriptures.

I will answer this with a couple of questions for you. Please answer them.

According to Hebrews, I have shown you that the earthly tabernacle was a copy of the heavenly one.

WHEN GOD GAVE MOSES THE INSTRUCTIONS TO BUILD THE TABERNACLE DID HE TELL MOSES TO PUT AARON'S ROD IN THERE?

In regard to the manna, you are right to say that Christ is the bread of heaven, but it isn't interesting that the Lord told moses to laid it up before the Testimony just after acusing the Israelites of not keeping the sabbath.

I will not put the whole text but you can read yourself if you want but in verse Exodus 16:28-29


Exodus 16:28-31 And the LORD said to Moses, "How long do you refuse to keep My commandments and My laws? 29 "See! For the LORD has given you the Sabbath; therefore He gives you on the sixth day bread for two days. Let every man remain in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day." 30 So the people rested on the seventh day. 31 And the house of Israel called its name Manna. And it was like white coriander seed, and the taste of it was like wafers made with honey.


Exodus 16:33-34 And Moses said to Aaron, "Take a pot and put an omer of manna in it, and lay it up before the LORD, to be kept for your generations." 34 As the LORD commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept.

==================

Now, you said that I have

Quote:"""Have you now changed the direction of this conversation?""""

I beg to differ, When this discussion started, I was pointing to the fact that John saw the ark in the temple of God. and there was a great display of power just after that.


Dear brother phillip is telling me that the temple that John saw is not a temple as in a temple and that it is the spiritual temple, you are saying that the Temple that John saw is Jesus Himself.

what we are trying to establish here is what temple is this and what ark is that, what is inside that ark.

Is difficult to discuss this things here because, I ask questions and never get an answer for them.

You said:

Jayyou, before you can understand the Ark of the Covenant, you must understand many other spiritual concepts and realities.


I don't claim to know everything, everyday I learn something and that is the great thing about being a Christian.

but you should know that when God gave Moses the directions for the Earthly tabernacle, He did not ask Aaron to put his rod in there. So please this argument is not valid. I don't even understand why you said this.

When I quoted that text in scriptures I wanted you to see where the ark was in the earthly tabernacle so that we can pinpoint where it is placed in the heavenly one.


God bless...


J
jayyou

Dear brother RevBenjamin,

I decided to post this in a separate message because maybe that way I might get an answer to it.


I am trying to understand how you relate other parts of scriptures in relation to your understanding of the Heavenly Temple.

You said that it is Jesus Himself.

please answer this question then.


Revelation 14:17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

does this angel come out of Jesus?

or there is a temple in heaven just like Hebrews told us that the earthly tabernacle was a copy of the heavenly one?

Revelation 15:5-8 After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened. 6 And out of the temple came the seven angels having the seven plagues, clothed in pure bright linen, and having their chests girded with golden bands. 7 Then one of the four living creatures gave to the seven angels seven golden bowls full of the wrath of God who lives forever and ever. 8 The temple was filled with smoke from the glory of God and from His power, and no one was able to enter the temple till the seven plagues of the seven angels were completed.

Again, do all these angels come out of Jesus and on verse 8 is Jesus going to be filled with smoke?


Now, in one part of Revelation it says that the Temple of God was open and He saw the ark of His Covenant was seen.

Please explain to me, how do you understand the temple of Revelation 11:19 in relation to the Temple of God in Revelation 14:17 and
Revelation 15:5-8.

In revelation 15 it even refers to it as in the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened.

I don't believe it could be any clearer.

These are a few texts that refers to Testimony.

Exodus 25:16 "And you shall put into the ark the Testimony which I will give you.

Exodus 31:7 "the tabernacle of meeting, the ark of the Testimony and the mercy seat that is on it, and all the furniture of the tabernacle


Numbers 1:53 "but the Levites shall camp around the tabernacle of the Testimony,


The list goes on and on.


I would love to have your answers to these questions.

God bless you....

jayme..

God bless.....

J
jayyou

Dear brother phillip,

Thank you once more for your patience in responding to my messages.

Please allow me to comment on a few things that you said.

Quote:""""jayyou, The first question, is Christ earthly or heavenly, created or birthed, with the Father from the beginning or just brought to earth as a human being in Bethlehem, birthed like all other human beings?"""""


Again, I don't see the point of this questions.

Nobody here is denying the God status or the human status of Christ. For He was God among men, Remember Immanuel, God with us.

====

Quote:""""If the Law still commands its keeping then why did Christ Come""""

I don't need to keep the law anymore, then please answer me this.

Is the law in Leviticus 18 still valid?

The actual text prohibits sexual relations and thereby marriage between a male ego and the following female relatives:

Mother
Father's Wife (other than own mother)
Father's Sister
Father's Brother's Wife
Mother's Sister
Wife's Mother
Sister
Half Sister
Brother's Wife
Wife's Sister
Wife's Daughter
Daughter in Law


Did Jesus do away with these laws?

======

quote: """"There is only life in Christ Jesus for God has made Him unto us all that is necessary to be called son's of the Living God and Brother in Christ Jesus with Him as the elder Brother and first Born among many.""""

Dear brother, you are spot on right here, and nobody is denying your statement.

What we are saying is this,

If you claim to be his followers, then you must follow this as well..

John 14:15 If you love Me, keep My commandments.

The arguments if not the fact that Jesus is our all in all, The argument is How we love him by keeping His commandments and the Commandments of His Father.

Yes, remember?

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

I can see that you preach the faith of Jesus Christ, but what about the Commandments of God?


In christ....


C
Christinyou

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

There is no meritorious work on our part in the confession, for it is the Holy Spirit that convicts us of sin in the first place. The emphasis is not on "if we confess", but on God who is faithful and just. In the confession which is a must, it is God's faithfulness because of the work on the Cross by His Son that God is just in forgiving us and cleansing us for all unrighteousness.

The Same Principle is in this scripture.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.

It is not work on our part that has any merit in loving Jesus Christ or our keeping His commandments. It is His work in us that we keep the commandments because He is the only commandment keeper. It is His work in us that we love Him because He first love us.

1Jo 4:19 We love him, because he first loved us.

We receive nothing by keeping the commandments but condemnation, for we cannot keep them as Christ does. He is the Perfect one and we are perfect by His work, not ours and that makes Him our Great Sabbath Keeper, that we should worship and Keep Him and make Him the only Holy One thing that makes us righteous before God the Father.

The seventh day Sabbath cannot be Holy, for a day is not and cannot be Holy, only a Person can be Holy, and that is Christ in you the Hope of Glory. Keep Him and make Him Holy for He is the only true Holy One. That is why He is our Sabbath.

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to His working, which worketh in me mightily.

How are we perfect? Not by keeping the commandments but by Keeping Him Holy that is in us. These are the greater works we will do more than He did, because it is still Him doing the works and even greater than He did while He was Jesus Christ the last Adam, on this earth. 1Cr 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam [was made] a quickening spirit.

This is our Sabbath, the quickening spirit, not a day or any commandments, by works lest any man should boast, but the Spirit of Christ dwelling in us, making us son's of God, able to approach the Throne of God on His Sabbath, Jesus Christ Himself, with boldness because of the Christ that is in us.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

By this we walk in His Good works, including the Sabbath Day making God Holy And Christ Holy, that we should walk in Him who is truly our Sabbath.


In Christ: Phillip

R
RevBenjamin

Jayyou,

I suggested, "Let’s [u]begin[/u] here and work forward.

Yet, your reply is:

Dear brother forgive me for saying it, your argument has no foundation in scriptures.

Here is where we will depart Jay. For these things have a most profound understanding in scripture, to those who are Born Again.

You have given yourself away, by that one comment.

There is no need to go forward here. You seem to know it all, and have no need for further enlightening.

All scripture, beginning in Genesis through to the very end of Revelation is about Jesus Christ.

When reading Revelation, please keep in mind, the Book is called 'The Revelation [u]of[/u] Jesus Christ'.

The Tabernacle and all it's contents is the Revelation of Jesus Christ!

You want to hold on to the earthly picture, placing it exactly in Heaven as was on earth, looking for answers you will never find. All Wisdom and Knowledge is in Jesus Christ. The 'Hidden Manna' waiting to reveal the 'deeper' life of Christ in you, our hope of Glory.

May God open your eyes and ears, to hear and know these wonderful truths.

Blessings,

R.G. Benjamin


C
crsschk

I don't need to keep the law anymore, then please answer me this ...

153. The New Moons are to be observed to set Yahweh's Feasts. (Exodus 12:2) (Deuteronomy 16:1)

154. The seventh day of every week is Yahweh's Sabbath of rest, and a Holy Convocation. (Exodus 23:12, 16:23)

155. Keep the Sabbath Day holy by making preparation in advance. (Exodus 20:8-11)

156. Remove all leaven from all your property by the fifteenth of Abib. (Exodus 12:15)

157. On the fifteenth day of Abib we must teach our children the story of The Exodus from Egypt. (Exodus 13:8)

158. We must eat unleavened bread from the fifteenth through the twenty-first of Abib. (Exodus 12:18)

159. The first day of The Feast of Unleavened Bread (Passover) is a Sabbath of rest and a Holy Convocation. Cooking may be done on a Feast Day Sabbath, but not on the weekly Sabbath. (Exodus 12:16)

160. The seventh day of The Feast of Unleavened Bread (Passover) is a Sabbath of rest and a Holy Convocation. (Exodus 12:16)

161. We must count fifty days-from the day after the First Holy Day Sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (The Count of Omer) to The Feast of Weeks. (Leviticus 23:15-16)

162. The Feast of Weeks (Pentecost) is a Sabbath of rest and a Holy Convocation. (Leviticus 23:21)

163. The Feast of Trumpets is a Sabbath of rest and a Holy Convocation. (Leviticus 23:24)

164. The Day of Atonement is a day of complete fasting. (Leviticus 16:29-31)

165. The Day of Atonement is a Sabbath of rest and a Holy Convocation. (Leviticus 23:27-32)

166. The First Day of the Feast of Tabernacles is a Sabbath of rest and a Holy Convocation. (Leviticus 23:34-35)

167. The Last Great Day is a Sabbath of rest and a Holy Convocation. (Leviticus 23:36)

168. Dwell in booths (succahs-temporary dwellings) during The Feast of Tabernacles. (Leviticus 23:42)

169. A Succah must be built before The Feast of Tabernacles. (Leviticus 23:40)

170. Sound the shofar on The Feast of Trumpets. (Numbers 29:1)

The 595 Remaining;

[url=http://www.pressiechurch.org/Theol_2/All%20613%20laws.htm]The Law: All 613 Commandments![/url]

[url=http://www.jewfaq.org/613.htm]A List of the 613 Mitzvot (Commandments) [/url]


[i]For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.[/i] Heb 7:12

R
RevBenjamin


159. The first day of The Feast of Unleavened Bread (Passover) is a Sabbath of rest and a Holy Convocation. Cooking may be done on a Feast Day Sabbath, but not on the weekly Sabbath. (Exodus 12:16)

160. The seventh day of The Feast of Unleavened Bread (Passover) is a Sabbath of rest and a Holy Convocation. (Exodus 12:16)

161. We must count fifty days-from the day after the First Holy Day Sabbath of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (The Count of Omer) to The Feast of Weeks. (Leviticus 23:15-16)

1 Corinthians 5:7
Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. [u]For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:[/u]


The 'Hidden Manna', our unleaven bread of the very Life of Christ in you = Grace not Law.

For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. Heb 7:12

Jesus Christ, OUR Passover Lamb of God is OUR Sabbath Rest.


R.G. Benjamin

S
sscr01

The Creation Covenant: (Dr. R.C. Sproul)

1. Sanctity of life
2. Sanctity of marriage
3. Sanctity of labor
4. Sanctity of Sabbath

God made this Covenant with Adam, and it includes all of mankind. We can be hostile to it, but we cannot undo it.

"As far as the east is from the west, so far hath He removed our transgressions (of the law: 1 John 3:4) from us...TO SUCH AS KEEP HIS COVENANT, AND TO THOSE THAT REMEMBER HIS COMMANDMENTS TO DO THEM." Psalm 103.

The fourth commandment is NOT OPTIONAL.

He is, only, Lord, to those who obey Him.

J
jayyou

Dear brother Phillip,

Thank your for your reply. Please allow me a comment.

I will post here something that you said, and I know already that you will come back to me saying that I took it out of context, but I will do it just the same.

=====

Quote: """"The seventh day Sabbath cannot be Holy, for a day is not and cannot be Holy,"""".

This my brother is not biblical. These are your words and I can assure you that you are wrong in saying this.

Please explaing this to me.

Exodus 20:8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Nehemiah 9:14 You made known to them Your holy Sabbath,

Is Nehemiah talking about a Day or a person?

Isaiah 58:13 If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath, From doing your pleasure on My holy day, And call the Sabbath a delight, The holy day of the LORD honorable,

Do you understand what,

ON MY HOLY DAY mean?

or

THE HOLY DAY OF THE LORD.

I am sorry that you count as common the things that God sanctified.

For if you say that the sabbath is not holy and a day cannot be holy, then you are denying the very words of God.


Genesis 2:3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Right from the Beginning God Sanctified it.

but you call it common, should I give heed to your words or the words of the Almighty God?

God bless you...

J
jayyou

Dear brother crsschk ,

Thank you for your post, allow me to ask you a question.

You mentioned these 613 laws, but let me ask you something.

You have not answered my question.

Can I marry my sister or a close relative for Jesus nailed the whole law on the cross?

if you say no, please explain.
if you say yes, please explain.

Looking forward to your reply.

God bless....

jayme

C
crsschk

[i]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.[/i] Heb 7:18

[i]But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.[/i] Heb 8:6-9


The fourth commandment is NOT OPTIONAL.

He is, only, Lord, to those who obey Him.

[i]For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.[/i] Jas 2:10

All 613 of which are optionalized and disobeyed as is fiting whichever whim or fancy suits ...

School yourself;

[url=http://www.jewfaq.org/10.htm]"The Ten Commandments"[/url]

[i]Howbeit the most High dwelleth not in temples made with hands; as saith the prophet, Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool: what house will ye build me? saith the Lord: or what is the place of my rest? Hath not my hand made all these things? Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.[/i] Act 7:48-53

R
RevBenjamin

Jeremiah had the revelation that the physical, earthly Ark of the Covenant would no longer be sought after or held in such high esteem. He saw that the reality and the fulfillment of the Ark would come.

Jeremiah3: 16And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more. At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart. In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers. We see the eternal fulfillment of the Ark is Jerusalem.

Jerusalem will be called "the Throne of God". The Ark was the place of God's earthly throne in the Tabernacle of Moses and the Temple of Solomon.

In future days Jerusalem will be called "the Throne of God". This will be true in the Millennium rule of Christ but will also be true of the New Jerusalem which will be the Most Holy Place in the Tabernacle of God. The throne of God will be there.

REV 22:1 And he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, And there shall no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it, (the New Jerusalem) and His bond-servants shall serve Him; and they shall see His face, and His name {shall be} on their foreheads.

When the Throne of God is manifested no one will miss the Ark of the Covenant which was made with human hands. [u]The final fulfillment [/u], which is a shadow of things to come, will not come until the New Earth, the Heavens, and the New Jerusalem are manifest. When the Tabernacle of God is complete, the New Jerusalem will be the Most Holy Place and the Throne of God.

Revelation 11:19 is the Revelation of Jesus Christ pointing to these future events and the fulfillment of those promises, not only in executing His wrath upon a godless world, but His Mercy to Israel as promised. Revelation 11:19 announce the birth-pangs of Romans 11:26-36.

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes. For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance. For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief: Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all. the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

R.G. Benjamin


J
jayyou

Dear brother RevBenjamin,

Thank you for your reply.

Quote: """"You want to hold on to the earthly picture, placing it exactly in Heaven as was on earth, looking for answers you will never find.""""


Dear brother, it is right here that we do not agree.

You are looking it backwards, I am not placing the tabernacle in heaven as it was on earth.
That's where we do not agree, For the tabernacle on earth was a shadow of the heavenly one.

According to Hebrew.

Hebrews 8:5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, "See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain."

I cannot put it any clearer.

Again, you did not answer some of my question in regard the Temple that

Revelation 14:17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

Revelation 15:5-6 After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened. 6 And out of the temple came the seven angels having the seven plagues,


Please answer my questions in regard of this.

What temple is this that John saw in these two passages?

Are Angels coming out of Jesus(temple)?

========

Quote:"""May God open your eyes and ears, to hear and know these wonderful truths."""

Please do brother, there are many truths in the bible that a lifetime is not enough to grasp.


May God bless you in your walk with the Master.

Jayme

R
RevBenjamin

Hebrews 8:5 who serve the copy and shadow of the heavenly things, as Moses was divinely instructed when he was about to make the tabernacle. For He said, "See that you make all things according to the pattern shown you on the mountain."

Jayme, Once upon a time, in the Beginning, God designed three (3) Arks, and they were very different from each other, yet they served a common purpose. Each was built uniquely special.

Ark#1 carried the Notice or Necessity of Salvation.

Ark#2 carried the Plan of Salvation,

Ark#3 carried the Symbols of Salvation.

"Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world."Acts 15:18.

"There are differences of administrations, but the same Lord, and there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all." 1Cor12:5.


ARK #1. Noah's Ark didn't have a rudder or keel or means of propulsion. It was made of gopher wood, Gen6:14, and I'd have called it a floating barn or perhaps barge. In addition to all the animals, it carried the "One Family" of Noah, consisting of 4 males and 4 females. 1Peter 1:20 reminds us of that time when "the Ark was preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water". You could argue from this that animals don't have souls -- or maybe their souls don't need saving?? To those who wonder whether animals go to heaven, and want the answer from Scripture, it's a verse which must be considered.


"By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear; prepared an Ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world.." Heb 11:7. Note that now WE are (building) the house of the Lord, Heb3:6, and that Noah's life bridged that Deluge era, and that he died in the year 2006 at the age of 950.


Our learning experience concerning salvation begins with Noah's Flood, commonly referred to as "The Deluge". Everyone except those in the Ark were drowned in that liquid water, and only One Family was "saved". Now in the New Covenant only the Family of God will be going to heaven, and everyone else is figuratively either drowning in the Sea of Life or hell-bent for the Lake of Fire.

"Whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our LEARNING!" Rom 15:4

ARK #2. The Ark of Moses also traveled on the water, but it carried just the One Baby, the "One Body", of the person who would deliver the Children of Israel from the oppression of the Pharaoh. This "ark" was made of bulrushes, Ex2:3, and also lacked keel or rudder or means of propulsion -- I'd have called it a tub, or perhaps a sea-going baby buggy.


"That he might sanctify and cleanse it (the church) with the washing of water by the word", Eph 5:26. Scripture is not just the "Bread" of God, but is also the "Living Water", John4:14, for those who hunger & thirst. Rev22:17.


"For we being many are one bread and One Body: for we are all partakers of that one bread". 1Cor 10:17.

Moses floating down the river is a precept of how Jesus is the Living Water come down from Heaven. Both babies came as "strangers" to deliver those who love Truth and Righteousness and those who are oppressed. "Jesus...went about doing good and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him. Acts 10:38.

ARK #3. This golden boat was constructed of shittim wood, Ex25:10, and measured 2½ long by 1½ wide by 1½ high (cubits), Ex25:10, and was carried on the shoulders of the designated Levites. I'd have called it a box, or a chest, because it contained the (1) Golden pot of Manna, (2) Aaron's Rod that budded, and (3) Tables of the Covenant. Heb 9:4.

NO WATER!! They aren't even close to a lake! This third Ark is built according to God's specs, in the desert, a long way from any water. And covered with so much gold there's a possibility it wouldn't have floated anyway...??


This 3rd Ark signified the presence of God!

Neither does God dwell in man-made structures--He wants to dwell in the "CHEST" of man -- in the heart of the believer! And He's truly a trinity of His Word (the tablets), and True Bread (the pot of manna), and New Birth (the Rod that budded). This chest isn't the physical kind that carpenters use or people eye-ball, but rather is the figurative or spiritual that is carried around and along by the five-fold ministry of Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Pastors and Teachers. Eph4:11.

WHY WERE THEY CALLED "ARK'S" ?? The Greek word "kibotos" and the Hebrew word "tebah" both translate simply as vessels or boats, so the use of the word "ark" is something of a mystery. Likewise, the Hebrew word "aron" is used for the the Ark of God, Ark of the LORD, Ark of Testimony, or Ark of the Covenant, and this word normally translates as chest or coffin.


R.G. Benjamin

C
Christinyou

Quote;

""THE HOLY DAY OF THE LORD.

I am sorry that you count as common the things that God sanctified.

For if you say that the sabbath is not holy and a day cannot be holy, then you are denying the very words of God.""

I don't deny the Sabbath Day as Holy, I embrace Him. Would you rather worship a day or Jesus Christ? The works not done on the Sabbath Keepers day of rest, is a works in itself and they are doing the works to keep the Seventh Day Holy. The works are not keeping the Sabbath but making themselves pleasing to God and sanctifying themselves.

God has made Jesus Christ our Sanctification, not the day which was just a shadow of Christ to come, and keeping the day is self works which the whole Law is about. Anything any person does to please God is a work unless it is through Christ Jesus and His works accomplished on the Cross. God will never accept our earthly works, He never did, the only way Israel still exists is by the mercy of God. The only way a Christian exists is by the mercy and Grace of God and the birthing of His Son in the believer.

Rom 3:30 Seeing [it is] one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

When Faith came the uncircumcision was justified through that Faith, which is Jesus Christ. The old testament saints were justified by the Faith which had not come, thus making the Law their mercy and justification by temporary sacrifice of animals as their Cross. Our Faith is come, and He is the Cross personified in Himself being the One that shed His own blood to purchase the sinner and the ungodly by His sacrifice to reconcile us to God the Father.

Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

You cannot keep the old and make it work in the new. Remember the old wine skins, you cannot put new wine in them or they burst. There has to be a complete new container to put new wine in to keep the container from bursting. We Christians are the New Wine Skins with the New Wine Himself in us. Thus making us a complete new container with the complete New Wine of Christ in us.

This is the new creature Paul is speaking about, behold old things have passed away and all things have become new.

That is what the Sabbath keeping is all about, we now keep the New Sabbath in Christ by the New Wine of Christs Seed of the Father now birthed in us.

2Cr 5:17 Therefore if any man [be] in Christ, [he is] a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

So your works of Sabbath keeping availeth nothing, but the New Creature, Which is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".

This is how we are perfect in the Law and including the Sabbath, which Christ is.

It is His working in us that makes the Law perfect including the Sabbath Day, which is now truly Holy by The Christ that is in us.

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

This is now our labor, striving according to His working, which worketh in us mightily.

Now, Colossians 3:1-17 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory. Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience: In the which ye also walked some time, when ye lived in them. But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth. Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds; And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all. Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

We in the bond of perfectness keep the Sabbath because of the Love of Christ that is in us. Not because it is a Law, because Christ fulfilled that Law and He is now the Sabbath Himself and we in Love keep Him. All else is Idolotry, you are not living in the Grace that God has given us and Christ profits you nothing.

Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

No Law or even under the Law does not count.

Galatians 5:1-6 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, (((((Christ shall profit you nothing.))))) For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

If Not then keep all 613 laws or you are condemned already.

This is our Sabbath, Christ Himself, whom worketh through faith by Love.

Galatians 5:13-14 For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

To do this we must have the Love of God Himself In us, That is Christ in you the Hope of Glory.,
Then we fulfill the only two commandments Christ said fulfills the whole law. That by the Christ Himself in us, not by our works lest any man should boast.

Keep the Sabbath and make Him Holy, For He is our all in all. Not the Day.

In Christ: Phillip

R
RevBenjamin

I believe when Jayme or Jayou??? understand this scripture, a ray of light may shine in to open this truth, therefore giving him a greater understanding of the scriptures in Revelation so pressing upon his understanding.


Hebrews 10:9 Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first(Covenant), that he may establish the second (Covenant).

[u]By the which will [b]we[/b] are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [/u]

The Ark of His Testimony is in the Everlasting Covenant, from before the foundation of the world.

This Testimony being He died for our sin, and was raised again for our justification. Heb 13:20-21.

God's plan from eternity past, including His wrath upon those who have rejected His Son, by rejecting His finished work upon the Cross.

Vengence is mine sayeth the Lord, to those who have trampled underfoot the Son of God, counted the [u]BLOOD[/u] of the Covenant (Everlasting Covenant) an unholy thing, and insulted the Spirit of [u]GRACE[/u]. Grace is not of works.

The Word became Flesh and dwelt among us full of GRACE and TRUTH. By GRACE you have been saved through faith in His finished work upon the Cross.

[u]WE[/u], (not a day), have been sanctified through the Body of Christ [u]ONCE[/u] for all.


R.G. Benjamin

C
Christinyou

Amen Rev.

Jayyou,

(when Christ in you is the only One that will make us, the branch, produce the fruit, the fruit of the Sabbath Rest is Christ. Making Him the only true Sabbath that we can deal with before God the Father. Much more when we try to do it ourselves as Keeping the Sabbath Day to make it Holy, we are showing God we don't trust the Seed that He, God the Father, has placed in us by our new birth. By you keeping the Sabbath to make it Holy, which He has already made us and the Day Holy in Christ Himself, you are slapping God in the Face and telling Him, now that you have given me salvation and killed your Son to do it, "I will" keep the Sabbath and "I will" make it Holy,)
(The true and Holy Sabbath Rest is coming out of the Seed and manifesting itself through us, Not that we keep the Sabbath Day to make it Holy, but the Sabbath Day Himself is flowing out of us and He is making it Holy.)
(Let Him make His Sabbath a blessing to others, not you keeping it and telling other they have to keep it also, or they are out of Gods blessing and won't receive the fruit of the Vine.)
(Rest in Him who is our true Sabbath, and let Him produce the Rest He has purchased on the Cross, Making His Seed in you produce the Fruit of the Sabbath which is unto God the Father. For what is the Sabbath for? Remember what the Father has done as when He took Israel out of Egypt. Just like He has taken us our of this, Satan's world and translated us into the Kingdom of His dear Son.)

Col 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:


In Christ: Phillip


J
jayyou

Dear brother RevBenjamin,

Thank you for your replies.

I have read your post and I must say that somehow you always find a way to evade my questions.

I know that you don't know that I know about the different Ark's and what they represent, but that is not what we are discussing here.

Let me refresh your memory.

I was having a discussion with Brother Phillip about the Ark and The Temple in heaven.
When I quoted this text, I want to know why was the Ark of His Testimony shown to John and why did John saw such a great display of power after that.
Brother Phillip said that the temple that John saw in heaven, is us the spiritual temple, but we all know that we are still down here on earth. You then joined the discussion saying that the Temple that John saw, was Jesus Himself. You even quoted this.

quote: ""John 2:19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.

Jayyou, what was Jesus referring to? Himself or a building?""""

I see the Temple that John saw in Heaven as the Template for the Tabernacle that was built by Moses.

Ok. So far we have.


Phillip = We are the Temple.

RevBenjamin = Jesus is the Temple.

Jayyou = The Temple is just the Temple that the earthly tabernacle was a perfect copy.


What I want you to explain to me is the fact that in this verses the Temple of God is mentioned again.

I have asked you three times and yet I have had no answer to these question, so I will try again.

=========

Revelation 14:17 Then another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle.

Revelation 15:5-6 After these things I looked, and behold, the temple of the tabernacle of the testimony in heaven was opened. 6 And out of the temple came the seven angels having the seven plagues,


Please answer my questions in regard of this.

What temple is this that John saw in these two passages?

Are Angels coming out of Jesus(temple)?

======

I want to know if this temple that Revelation is talking about is refering to.

Us
Jesus
or just a temple.

So, please could you answer these few questions?

In love Jayyou.

J
jayyou

Dear brother Phillip,

Once more thank you for your reply.

Quote:""""Quote: """"The seventh day Sabbath cannot be Holy, for a day is not and cannot be Holy,"""".

"""""I don't deny the Sabbath Day as Holy, I embrace Him. Would you rather worship a day or Jesus Christ?""""""

=====
You got me all confused now, First you said that the Sabbath day cannot and will never be holy, but low and behold in your next message you say that you don't deny but rather you embrace it.

Dear brother you called common what God Sanctified, and He Sanctified the Day.

You asked me.

quote:"""Would you rather worship a day or Jesus Christ?""""

Dear brother I have never come accross a text in the bible that tell us to worship the Day, or to worship a day. If one does that He is worshiping other gods.

The bible, in the other hand tell us that we must remember to keep the day holy, because God sanctified it by not doing certain things in it and also by doing certain things in it. It does not tell us to keep the day holy by praying to it, or by worshiping it but rather by worshiping the Creator, The God of the heavens, The Saviour(these I say refering to Jesus)On that Day.

This is where you are terribly mistaken, I do not worship a day but I worship the creator and saviour on that Day.

=========

Quote: """"" and keeping the day is self works which the whole Law is about. Anything any person does to please God is a work unless it is through Christ Jesus and His works accomplished on the Cross."""""


I think it is so funny how you say this, by me keeping God's commandments is Salvation by my own efforts, even though I was baptized in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit, I have given my life to serve Jesus and to preach Him as our crucified Saviour and our only way of salvation, but you say that by me keeping the Sabbath I trying to save myself by my own works, but you say that the Sabbath is not holy it cannot be holy it will never be holy and you say that do it through Jesus Christ.

You talk about works, works, works. and yet you forget this.

James 2:14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

James 2:17 Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.


James is very clear dear brother,

FAITH AND WORKS THEY GO ALONG.

Your faith must produce good works otherwise it is dead and it cannot save you and likewise your works must be the result of your faith, otherwise it is dead and it cannot save you.

but you forget one thing.

In revelation we have this.


Revelation 2:1 To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, '
Revelation 2:2 "I know your works, your labor, your patience


Revelation 2:8 And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write.
Revelation 2:9 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty

Revelation 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,
Revelation 2:13 "I know your works, and where you dwell,

Revelation 2:18 And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write.
Revelation 2:19 I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience.

Revelation 3:1 And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
Revelation 3:1 "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write,
Revelation 3:8 "I know your works.

Revelation 3:14 " And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
Revelation 3:15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot.


It seems to me that Jesus is very much aware of our works and as I said before faith and works go together, you separate one and the other is dead.

So, don't come to me and say that I keep the Sabbath and it is only works because it is not true, I keep the sabbath because I have faith that Jesus is my saviour and He is the Lord of the Sabbath, so I worship the Creator not the Creation.


Matthew 16:27 "For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

Again I will say to you dear brother.


DO NOT CALL COMMON WHAT GOD HAS SANCTIFIED FROM THE BEGINNING.


God bless..

Jayyou

C
crsschk

Dear brother crsschk ,

Thank you for your post, allow me to ask you a question.

You mentioned these 613 laws, but let me ask you something.

You have not answered my question.

Can I marry my sister or a close relative for Jesus nailed the whole law on the cross?

if you say no, please explain.
if you say yes, please explain.

Looking forward to your reply.

God bless....

jayme


Brother, for the better part I must admit you have been cordial with all this yet there does seem to be some duplicity with;

You have not answered my question.

As you do very much the same with those being posited to yourself. At any rate, will answer your question with the following, from Romans;


[i]Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things. And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance? But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:

For there is no respect of persons with God.
For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.

For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;) In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. Behold, thou art called a Jew, and restest in the law, and makest thy boast of God, And knowest his will, and approvest the things that are more excellent, being instructed out of the law; And art confident that thou thyself art a guide of the blind, a light of them which are in darkness, An instructor of the foolish, a teacher of babes, which hast the form of knowledge and of the truth in the law. Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal? Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege? Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?

For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision. Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision? And shall not uncircumcision which is by nature, if it fulfil the law, judge thee, who by the letter and circumcision dost transgress the law? For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.[/i] Rom 2:1-29

How goes the keeping of the other 612? Quite the burden compared to;

[i]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.[/i] Rom 8:2

J
jayyou

Dear brother crsschk,

Thank you for your answer and your patience. Please allow me to comment on your last message.

Quote:"""You have not answered my question.


As you do very much the same with those being posited to yourself. At any rate, will answer your question with the following, from Romans;"""""

Dear brother, I try to answer all the questions people post to me, I cannot say for sure if I succeded but If you ask me a question and I did not answer the first time and you think that I should answer it, then ask me a second time and I will garantee you an answer.

Now I ask you a question three times and you still haven't answered.

Since Jesus did away with the law, Can I marry a close relative for we are not under the law anymore or this law was done away.

You posted a text from Romans 2, which states the following.


Quote:"""For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. """"

How does the text in romans answer my question?

====

Quote:""""How goes the keeping of the other 612?""""

Are you saying that I keep the sabbath and disregard the other commandments?

I cannot see where you would get this idea.

Now, what about you, How many of the 613 you say is no longer binding to us?

I hope you are not promoting lawlessness for we all know the reward of those who promote and practice such a thing.

You say that I do not keep the whole law, but this argument does not help you either.

whoever is guilt of one if guilt of the whole law, Remember?

So, according to your statement we are both into trouble.

Now, you will say that Jesus did away with the law and yet all the other nine commandments were mentioned again in the new testament. The sabbath was kept by Jesus as an example to us, but that is not enough. Paul went to the synagogues on the Sabbath and once they went out by a river on the sabbath where prayers customarily were made. Paul was never acused of breaking the sabbath law, not even once, but was persecuted for other things. but his example is not enough for you.

Jesus followers were preparing the spices for annoyinting His body and yet they stopped it, kept the Sabbath and when they were going on the first day to finish the job, Jesus was not there.
but their example is not good enough.

One thing i for sure, Jesus talks about two great commandments and they all refer to the Ten commandments, you accept all of them except the 4th commandment.

=====

You made sure to separate this part of the text for me.

Quote:"""For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you"""

How about you, dear brother, is the name of God being blasphemed through those who deny the whole law?

So, again.

According to your understanding of the law with 613 commandments,

Am I allowed to marry a closer relative? ie. sister?

are we free to break this law?


God bless...

C
Christinyou

Quote:

"You got me all confused now, First you said that the Sabbath day cannot and will never be holy, but low and behold in your next message you say that you don't deny but rather you embrace it."

The quote was, "embrace Him", not it. The day is "it", He is the whole and fulfillment of "it".

I don't deny the Sabbath Day as Holy, I embrace Him. Would you rather worship a day or Jesus Christ? The works (not) done on the Sabbath Keepers day of rest, is a works in itself and they are doing the works to keep the Seventh Day Holy. The works are not keeping the Sabbath but making themselves pleasing to God and sanctifying themselves.

As a born again Christian with the Seed of Christ birthed in me, I choose to worship Him 24-7 which is the only way a Christian can honor the Father and that Honor is because of the Christ in me that the Father accepts as worship, not my worship but His worship which has become my worship by His works on the Cross.

James said, "faith without works is dead", knowing the the Works are the Works of Christ in him, that the works of Jesus Christ must come forth or your faith is dead.

That is why I show you my Faith, which is Christ, by the works.

Quote:

""Your faith must produce good works otherwise it is dead and it cannot save you and likewise your works must be the result of your faith, otherwise it is dead and it cannot save you.""

But my faith will only produce the works that God will accept by the Faith of Christ that is in me.

Who's Faith?

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Who's Faith will produce the good works? Certainly Not mine.

The Same for the Sabbath, Who's Sabbath is it?
Who gave it to man for man? Who knows what the true Sabbath is? It is Christ Jesus the Lord that knows what the true Sabbath is all about, it is about remembering what Christ Has done on the Cross and Who has given you new birth by the Father's Seed, which is "Christ in you the Hope of Glory". Just like Israel for the earthly Sabbath. Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Neh 13:22 And I commanded the Levites that they should cleanse themselves, and [that] they should come [and] keep the gates, to sanctify the sabbath day. Remember me, O my God, [concerning] this also, and spare me according to the greatness of thy mercy.

So why do you keep the Sabbath? Because of a Law or because of the Love we are commanded by Jesus Christ.

Old testament reason for the Sabbath:

Deu 5:15 And remember that thou wast a servant in the land of Egypt, and [that] the LORD thy God brought thee out thence through a mighty hand and by a stretched out arm: therefore the LORD thy God commanded thee to keep the sabbath day.

Neh 13:22 And I commanded the Levites that they should cleanse themselves, and [that] they should come [and] keep the gates, to sanctify the sabbath day. Remember me, O my God, [concerning] this also, and spare me according to the greatness of thy mercy.

New testament reason for the Sabbath Himself.

Jhn 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.

1Jo 2:8 Again, a new commandment I write unto you, which thing is true in him and in you: because the darkness is past, and the true light now shineth.

The darkness of the old Sabbath in works is passed away and the true light of the Sabbath has come, Jesus Christ Himself who is in you. Your Sabbath is Christ not the day of keeping.

You left something out: Works are nothing and certainly not to the forefront of Christ Teaching in Revelations.


Revelation 2:1 To the angel of the church of Ephesus write, '
Revelation 2:2 "I know your works, your labor, your patience

To finish:
Revelation 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.

Revelation 2:8 And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write.
Revelation 2:9 "I know your works, tribulation, and poverty

To finish: "and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

Revelation 2:12 And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write,
Revelation 2:13 "I know your works, and where you dwell,

To finish: Revelation 2:13-14 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth. But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

You left out the finish of what this part of scripture is all about. Doing the works and leaving out Christ and His works in us.

Revelation 2:18 And to the angel of the church in Thyatira write.
Revelation 2:19 I know your works, love, service, faith, and your patience.

Revelation 3:1 And to the angel of the church in Sardis write,
Revelation 3:1 "I know your works, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.

Revelation 3:7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write,
Revelation 3:8 "I know your works.

Revelation 3:14 " And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write,
Revelation 3:15 "I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot.

To finish, ignoring or not withstanding or nevertheless, He has something against each
Church and this is His Finish: Who's Works?

Revelation 2:25-29 But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. And he that overcometh, and ((keepeth my works unto the end,)) to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean [thing], and all our righteousnesses [are] as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.

Galatians 5:1-8 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.

Kick against the goad all you want, but Grace and Truth are in Christ Jesus and no other, be it works or anything else that takes His Place in the Life of the believer is Idolotry and Christ profit you nothing.

In Christ: Phillip


C
crsschk

Now I ask you a question three times and you still haven't answered.

Actually you asked Phillip back a few pages, I just happened to jump in at some point. And I think it is a rather baiting question, even if it isn't your intention. May be why you are not getting a response that you might be looking for ... We could go back and forth on these "what abouts" if we were to go through the whole 613 commandments so I will just answer this; What do you think? This is the trouble in overlooking so much, but I am getting a bit ahead of myself ...

You posted a text from Romans 2, which states the following.


Quote:"""For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. """"

How does the text in romans answer my question?

Posted more than just that subsection, the greater part of it for the context, but bear with me ...

Are you saying that I keep the sabbath and disregard the other commandments?

Yes. Will clarify that ...

I cannot see where you would get this idea.

Now, what about you, How many of the 613 you say is no longer binding to us?

I hope you are not promoting lawlessness for we all know the reward of those who promote and practice such a thing.

You say that I do not keep the whole law, but this argument does not help you either.

whoever is guilt of one if guilt of the whole law, Remember?

So, according to your statement we are both into trouble.

Ah! Now your closer, "were both in trouble" !
Thank the Lord Jesus Christ! Yes, precisely. That is the whole point and argument throughout not only this posting but others like it and dare I saw was Paul's argument throughout; "Who bewitched you?"

Promoting lawlessness? "[i]God forbid![/i]"

You say that I do not keep the whole law, but this argument does not help you either.


It helped Paul ... ;-)

[i]Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, [u]which is of the law[/u], but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:[/i] Php 3:6-9

Now, you will say that Jesus did away with the law ...

No brother, I have never stated that, He fulfilled the law and the covenant was changed (See Hebrews).

and yet all the other nine commandments were mentioned again in the new testament.

Interesting, but not that last one ... ?

The sabbath was kept by Jesus as an example to us, but that is not enough. Paul went to the synagogues on the Sabbath and once they went out by a river on the sabbath where prayers customarily were made. Paul was never acused of breaking the sabbath law, not even once, but was persecuted for other things. but his example is not enough for you.

Yet Jesus was accused of breaking it, remember? There are quite a few things that seem to be overlooked. Chronology. 'As things progressed' it might be put. When were the Epistles written? What about the temple ... and [i]the sacrifices?[/i] That has always been one of the most most puzzling, what happened with the Jews or proselytes after the temple was destroyed? How did they get around [i]those[/i] commandments? Need to purposefully drive this off the trail a bit. Posted a link back a few pages from a site on Judaism and one the important links there was on "The Ten Commandments". They themselves put forth the argument better than anyone of us can that, in a nutshell, this is only part of the greater body (the 613). In fact they go so far as to say that the "ten" were not even 'commandments'. Won't bother to get into all that but there has been a great attempt here and elsewhere to make diligent note [i]who[/i] and to [i]what[/i] body of people these were given to. Israel. Moses. Egypt. Key words and key instructions to them at that time and in that covenant. Would end up having to dredge all the aforementioned links posted here to go back into it all ... I must admit it has been very educational frankly. Techincally speaking, the "Ten Commandments" shouldn't really be posted where they have been (in our day) because we are not under that covenant any longer. But does that do away with the principles that under-girded them, not a chance. They are exemplified in the Lord Jesus, fulfilled and [i]we[/i] are under the greater law having His same self spirit if I could put it that way.

I know Romans is a difficult book to grasp and understand, hardly do I fathom it completely. But this is the great work of Paul's to express what the law is and means to those of us blessed enough to be on this side of the equation. As has been pointed to time and again, the other Epistles, Hebrews ...

One thing i for sure, Jesus talks about two great commandments and they all refer to the Ten commandments, you accept all of them except the 4th commandment.

[i]Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang [u]all the law[/u] and [b]the prophets[/b].[/i] Mat 22:35-40

[i]And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided him. And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God. [u]The law and the prophets were until John[/u]: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.[/i] Luk 16:14-16

[i]For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.[/i] Mat 11:13

"Were", "Until" ... Chronology again.

[b]Luk 16:16 - The law and the prophets were until John[/b],.... Till the time that John the Baptist began his ministry; for till then, the law and the prophets, with the Hagiographa, or holy writings, for into these three parts the Jews divided the books of the Old Testament, were the only writings they had; and which contained the whole of the revelation granted to them; and which they wrested, and put false glosses on; and therefore it was no wonder that they derided Christ, and despised his ministry: and whereas spiritual things were promised in these writings, under the notion of temporal ones; which they not understanding, might imagine the doctrine of Christ, concerning the contempt of worldly riches, was contrary to: and since they valued themselves on having the law and the prophets, Christ observes, that

[b]since that time, the kingdom of God is preached[/b]; the Gospel, and the mysteries of relating to the kingdom of the Messiah, his person, office, and grace; and to the kingdom of grace, which lies not in outward, but in inward and spiritual things; and to the kingdom of heaven, or glory hereafter; and which is a superior dispensation to that of the law and the prophets, and sets things in a clearer, plainer, and better light:

John Gill

I am not having a problem with the 4th commandment, that is yours and others ceasinglessness (to coin a phrase) issue. Why the constant harping on just this one item when there are so many, many more? If you want to be under the law, what has been stated?

[i]Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.[/i] Gal 4:21-24

"Two covenants". Your issue is with Paul not I. That has been the main attempt throughout here. Not to key in on just the sabbath but an attempt to open up just what the law is, what the commandments are, not just the "ten" and who they were given to. Go through that entire list, indeed you are certainly not keeping them all as I mentioned earlier, neither am I, nor do I wish to. The "law" is now written on our hearts, that was the point of the excerpt from Romans and no, I did not separate it into paragraph form for any other reason than to break it up a bit, make it more readable, I know my own tendency to skim over scriptures that are posted sometimes, especially if they all run together.

There must be a recognition that you and others like you are breaking the commandments even if you keep the "ten" because they are not "all". To dissect and put to the grind those that see no obligation to keep the "fourth" all the while doing the same to the other 613; choosing which have been fulfilled and dancing around the remaining is to do the very self same thing.

Am likely a bit all over the place here and there are far better men that have wrestled with these matters than I will ever be.

[i]And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth. Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me.[/i] Mar 10:17-21

He kept seemingly all these particular commandments and yet still lacked. Paul did likewise and even more according to his account and still lacked. We all lack ... what does it profit you to keep the law?

[i]For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law. So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the [u]law of liberty[/u]. For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.[/i] Jas 2:10-13

"Liberty". "Conscience". (Which, by the way, was the emphasis in Romans I would have emphasized; [i] Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their [u]conscience[/u] also bearing witness[/i]). "The law of ..." Rom 8:2 For the [u]law of[/u] the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. Study these things out, these words or phrases, what are they telling us?

C
Christinyou

jayou,

Matthew 11:25-30 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes. Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him. Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

Galatians 5:1-14 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage. Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing. For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. I would they were even cut off which trouble you. For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

"all the Law"? "is fulfilled in one word"?
Even the 2nd commandment, and it cannot be done without the 1st. The First cannot be done without the fulfillment Himself in the believer.

Galatians 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Are you dead to the Law and alive unto God?

Then why keep the Law? But keep only the Law of Love, which is the fulfilling of the whole Law.

Psa 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

Rom 13:8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love [is] the fulfilling of the law.

Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Jam 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

Ephesians 3:14-21 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man; That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love, May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us, Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

It is the inner man God is concerned with, the inner Law, the inner Sabbath, not the outward working, because it killed Paul and will kill us also, if by our own doing we keep the Sabbath or any other Law. The only Law that will keep us is the Law of Love exhibited in its epitome, by the Cross of Christ.

Rom 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

Understand this and you will understand why we say Christ in you is the only way the Law can be kept, and why our striving to keep the Law is incomprehensible to God, lest why did He Send His Son to fulfill the Law. That we might be free from the Law and alive unto God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 7:7-25 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Serving with your mind the Law of God is not a works, for we have the Mind of Christ and it is by the renewing of our mind to His Mind that we can serve the Law of God, not by works lest any man should boast.

Ephesians 2:1-10 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Jayou, don't ask me any more question until you can show me you understand what I am showing you and other also, from the Word of God.

I do love you with a love that is not of this world, but the Love of God in Christ Jesus who is now our lives if we only believe.

2 Timothy 1:9-10 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

This is the Gospel, Col 1:27-28, "Christ in you the Hope of Glory"

In Christ: Phillip

S
sermonindex

Re: [i]Dung however you slice it ...[/i]
by crsschk on 2008/5/11 20:44:3

[u]Chrsschk, what is this [b]'dung'[/b] that you refer to being sliced?[/u]

Thanks,
Stephen.


R
RevBenjamin

"The law of YHVH is perfect, reviving the soul"

This may be the problem. The LAW does not revive the soul. The Spirit of the life of Christ who set you free from the law of sin and death can only revive the soul. Ye must be Born Again!

Having a form of Godliness, but denying the power, from such ?????

R.G. Benjamin

S
sermonindex

revBenjamin quote: [i]""The law of YHVH is perfect, reviving the soul"

This may be the problem. The LAW does not revive the soul. The Spirit of the life of Christ who set you free from the law of sin and death can only revive the soul. Ye must be Born Again!

Having a form of Godliness, but denying the power, from such ?????[/i]
-----------------------------

[b]RevBenjamin, I personally uphold and support the Scripture and once again stand with the psalmist in Psalm 19:7 [u]"The law of YHVH is perfect, reviving the soul"[/u][/b]

I hope you do too...?
Stephen

C
Christinyou

I cannot keep the Law can you?

The more I try, the more I fail.

Praise God He has sent His only begotten Son to fulfill the Law and the demand of perfection of God the Father for any to inter the Kingdom of God.

This is truly Grace and Mercy, that we should be called the son's of God, by the Son of God that is in us. The Law Killed men and sent me to Hell. The Savior saved me and set me in the Heavenlies with Himself at the right hand of the Father.

No man can keep the Law, for if you even break one Jot or title, you have broken the whole Law.

Even as Paul, there was no sin without the Law, but when the Law came sin was revived, realized and present in me and it slew me.

How can we be set free from this body of death?

Rom 7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew [me].

We were sold under sin by Adam and sin came upon all man, that no man could have done any better and we all die, even before the Law and commandments. So how are we to know what sin is?

Romans 7:13-14 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

I am not sinful, but exceedingly sinful as all man is.

How can we ever be free from this sin and the Law that kills?

Romans 7:18-25 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

So it is not whether I keep the Law or Not keep the Law.

Ephesians 2:1-10 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Keep the Law, I think not. Believe that Christ is the Law Keeper and He is the One in us the Father accepts and gives us life through.

In Christ, the only life giver, by the Grace of God: Phillip

R
RevBenjamin

AMEN! Phillip,

Here tells us WHY the Law was added. THAT the offence of sin may [u]abound[/u].

The knowledge of the law reveals to us the Holiness of God, and the godlessness of man. ALL our works are as filthy rags.

Isaiah 64:6
But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.


Romans 5
1Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 9For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:


AGAIN:

[u]20Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound.But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound that as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.[/u]

R.G. Benjamin

C
crsschk

Chrsschk, what is this 'dung' that you refer to being sliced?

Only in as much as that mentioned there;

[i]Concerning zeal, persecuting the church; touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is [u]of the law[/u], but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith[/i]: Php 3:6-9

I regret that I did not realize how this could be taken and shouldn't have put it as the subject in retrospect. Thanks for drawing it to my attention. Further more, I should have made the emphasis broader;

[u][i]not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law[/i][/u],

I think I must beg off of this discussion at this point. It seems we are not really going anywhere at all. The positions are too entrenched. The definitions not spelled out before hand. The law, what it is, what it means, what all these things had to do with the times, people, places, what it all means now that Christ has come, the covenants ... These types of postings often do not go anywhere because they start in the middle, without any terms of engagement, definitions as was mentioned ... they run on more proving or attempting to prove their worth from fixed positions and there is no real goal to resolution. To be honest, I do not think it is an easy matter to come to in the first place. Zeal for the Lord can put us seemingly at odds when at heart we may well be after the same thing, to just do that which is pleasing in His sight. So, not as a parting shot but maybe a different way of looking at it, again Paul;

[i]Concerning zeal
persecuting the church;
touching the righteousness
which is in the law,
blameless.

But what things
were gain to me,
those I counted loss
for Christ.

Yea doubtless,
and I count all things
but loss
for the excellency
of the knowledge
of Christ Jesus my Lord:

For whom I have suffered
the loss
of all things,
and do count them
but dung,
that I may win
Christ,

And be found in him,
not having mine own
righteousness,
which is of the law,
but that which is through
the faith of Christ,
the righteousness
which is of God
by faith[/i]

S
sscr01

To say, that, the Sabbath is obsolete, is to reject the words of the Lord Jesus Christ.

He prophesied, that, the Sabbath would, still, be kept during The Great Tribulation:

"But pray ye that your flight be not in winter, neither on THE SABBATH DAY: for then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TO THIS TIME, NOR EVER SHALL BE." Mt 24:20,21.

And we are not there, yet.

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