A FALSE HEALING REVIVAL?? -Florida

I love this website, but I have to say (as i did on the other post about the florida revival)... i feel that many are missing revival because they don't like or understand the package that it is coming in.

I would look into something a little deeper before labeling it a deception. We often judge people ( i know that i have been guilty of this) on hearsay, on out of context quotes, and without really ever hearing the teachings of the person.

We label someone a false prophet/teacher because some website (or person) says they are and we have never even heard the person teach etc...again, i say this because i have done this myself.

God Bless

Sometimes when I read articles like this, news reports of alleged revivals, I sometimes wonder if we will ever see a "BIG" public revival. Does the kind we hanker for play into big egos? This is the question I wonder about. Yet we want it so badly, we want to see the LORD move and see crowds converted....

But is God working? Our daughter-in-law just told me of a wealthy man who had died, leaving behind a string of debts he never paid. During his lifetime he filed for bankruptcy three times. Today - as the story goes - his widow (I know these people well) is contacting these people working to repay these long outstanding debts. I do not know how old they may be - I am guessing 35 years old! Anyhow, when I heard this, I felt so blessed in my heart to see how God is bringing conviction and one person is responding to it. This kind of thing will never hit the news media, will it? and I do not think it should...

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Yes, please be very careful regarding this man and event... I, for a time, was enthralled by this very ministry due to an extreme desire to see the miraculous.

The teaching coming out of this is mind-numbing - foreign to most Christian thought and heavily influenced by extra-Biblical knowledge/experience/revelation.

I truly believe a demon (or demons) were able to influence me due to my submission to some of these teachings. When one was cast out it said that it came in when I was listening to Todd Bentley.

There is power here but I warn everyone - be sure it is the Holy Spirit.

As Zac Poonen says, "The Holy Spirit produces HOLINESS." The jerking, sputtering, salivating, wild, chaotic, foolishness of these meetings doesn't evidence holiness. Mind you, this is not a warning against genuine revival where joy, dancing, laughter and such are very real...this is a warning against possible deception.

God is available to all of us where we are. May knowing and revering Him as friend and Savior trump fleshly cravings.

The jerking, sputtering, salivating, wild, chaotic, foolishness of these meetings doesn't evidence holiness.

such manifestations are not from God, 2Ti 1:7 for God gave us a spirit not of fear but of power and love and [b]self-control[/b]. - ESV

when we say revival I wish we would mean actual revival where the Holy Spirit convicts people of their sin and draws them to church to hear the gospel and get saved like the scottland Hebrides. in 1949
Or even like the asbury college revival...
People say revival, and whats actually happening is a bunch of non discerning christians flocking to a church to get hands laid on them and get a special anointing from the Man or woman of god...little g for sure.... It makes me sick!!!!
they get their answer according to their idols.
Please Jesus send true revival...

Yes, Amen. Its amazing the stark difference between the real and the counterfeit when you put them side by side. After all these years how anyone can still believe Hinn, Copeland and countless others like them is mind boggling.

2 Peter 2:1-3 "But there were false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them- bringing swift destruction on themselves. many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up."

If I didn't know and you had told me that this was printed in a Christian commentary on some of these people this morning it would fit perfectly.

Blessing to all of you. Yes, of course, we are to be discerning in our assessment of "revivals". That goes without question. If you will indulge me, I will share with you my experience and understanding of the likes of Todd Bentley and Benny Hinn.

I had attended a Benny Hinn crusade just over 2 years ago singing in the choir. Having attended an Evangelical Free Church for over 18 years, I am accustomed to "conservative" Christianity. During the last 5 years, I have had a migraine that my doctors could not cure. Living on the likes of hydrocodone, percocet, dilantin, and other medicines, nothing was able to eliminate the headaches. I went through three brain surgeries during this time because I do suffer from Hydrocephalus. (Look it up). The doctors thought this was causing the migraines. Well, nothing worked until I went to the crusade weekend in Denver.

The second night, we were leading the crowd in prayer and worship when my migraines vanished. At that very point, I heard God confirm in me that I would never have migraines again. No, Benny did not "push me over" as you may think. I was in the choir behind the stage. From that day forward, I have been free from migraines. Of course, I am fully aware that Benny did not cure me, but the Holy Spirit.

Whether you believe in what he is doing or not, the evidence for his ministry is well documented. Personally, during the healing revival in Florida, I have prayed for and been prayed over many people. One such lady in Oregon was being prayed over by me and a friend of mine 3 nights ago. She has been on morphine and morphine patches for 5 years for lower back pain. She felt heat pass through her body as we prayed for her. She woke up the next morning and did not take her morphine pills but has been free of pain ever since.

Obviously, I am not a healer, just obedient to the Holy Spirit (most of the time). All we did was pray for her that by the power of the Holy Spirit (our helper) that she would be healed of her back pain.

The point of this conference, if you had looked into it, was physical healing, signs and wonders. There is not one shred of evidence in the Scriptures that shows that these kinds of things passed after the apostles died. Some claim 1 Cor 13:8-10 as evidence that tongues and the like have passed away. However, if you read it in context it is saying that those things will pass away when "the perfect comes". What does that phrase mean other than when Jesus returns? It is extremely obvious if you read the context of the passage. If it was referring to when the apostles died, surely it would have said such.

Another thing mentioned in this thread is evidence stating his ministry stance on Scripture. ie. The statement of faith. If you read the statement of faith it is no different than most protestant churches. The only "deviation" if I dare call it that, is the last which relates to further revelation. It is not out of line with Scripture because the statement references that "we place no limit on further revelation; however, each must be substantiated according to the Scriptures." As you all know, we things are always being revealed to us from the Father, yet it must line up with Scripture to be considered true.

Again, I bless you all and pray that we all will worship the Father in Spirit and Truth. Blessings.

>>Charismatics are flocking to the sleepy
town of Lakeland, Fla.

Whether you believe in what he is doing or not, the evidence for his ministry is well documented.

It certainly is, to their detriment.

Another thing mentioned in this thread is evidence stating his ministry stance on Scripture. ie. The statement of faith. If you read the statement of faith it is no different than most protestant churches. The only "deviation" if I dare call it that, is the last which relates to further revelation. It is not out of line with Scripture because the statement references that "we place no limit on further revelation; however, each must be substantiated according to the Scriptures." As you all know, we things are always being revealed to us from the Father, yet it must line up with Scripture to be considered true.

Unfortunately they fail to do this whatsoever. Here is another thread that sheds a lot of light on all this;

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=23211&forum=35&77]Revival in Florida??[/url]

If anything at least read through the extra-biblical 'revelations' that surpass even the apostle Paul who dared not utter what he had seen, but this fellow has no qualms or misgivings whatsoever;

[url=http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Act=read&status=teaching&Id=218]Face to Face Encounter, part 1.[/url]

[url=http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Act=read&status=teaching&Id=219]Face To Face Encounter, part 2. ....Paul and Abraham wrote Hebrews... 7 heavens, the fifth(above God's throne) not as peaceful.... Hidden mysteries and revelation..etc [/url]

I was so grieved, I had to stop myself sobbing , the Spirit in me was so grieved. I felt the Lord saying to me that this was a "circus." Benny was the ringmaster. Also, the most important part of the night was collecting the money. The crowd were informed that if they had no money that they could take credit cards, which they urged people to do, even if they had no money. This would be a "seed ," for them. There is a reason that Benny lives in a 10 million dollor mansion. Now where did the Lord live? Thats right, the Son of God had no where to lay His head.

The worse part of my attendance was that I had taken my unsaved wife with me, I deeply regretted that.

Circus. Have had the same word and thoughts ever since I first heard of this. Was once a devote' of Benny Hinn along with my wife and we were greatly enamored of him and the whole constructs that surrounded it all. I know it is very redundant for anyone who has been around these parts, but there are others as well, Krispy always comes to mind, both of us having much more experience than some who may have attended a conference or two. Besides those conferences we also drove 600 miles to attend a private, members only type conference that was held in a hotel ball room. Recall it cost us a couple hundred bucks and it might have held maybe 200 to 300 people. It was such a cult like atmosphere that it struck me as so even as such a great fan and follower of the man. The things that went on there were freakish and at times downright scary. The calling forth "that the Holy Spirit has arrived" and the confusion that ensued where they had us line up against a wall, (facing it for a time) and then systematically moved down the line so we could be manipulated, brainwashed that is into believing we were about to experience the great 'slain in the spirit' phenomenon. Even leaving my seat I hesitated and was very reluctant, something was amiss, but like other times was still able to suppress it and go along with the whole falsity of it all.
The money thing was also very grievous, besides the usual twisting and contortions in general there was something said to the effect that "God told him" that there were, I forget how many, say 5 people that can write checks for $1000.00 "right now" and I watched a gentleman in front of me do just that. One Hispanic brother so overcome with emotion and certainly earnest and sincere gave up his gold watch that might have been a gift he had received from someone else, but he had given something of a testimony at Benny's urging and all I recall was that he was just a simple brother who loved the Lord, he was in tears. Benny still took the watch however and then a number of others came up offering theirs to the same brother. It was the one touching moment but paradoxically in the middle of all this manipulation and incredible suggestive ... brainwashing. There is just no getting around these things as Frank points out, it is incredibly grievous. Christian millionaires on the backs of their followers, from that which they have fleeced from them, conned out of them, suggested and coerced from them, all of it painted up and dressed with the language of scripture.

But it is more than the money being parted, the spiritual ramifications can go on for years. Think it was brother Clint who mentioned how these circus acts can come to town, blow through and then leave the repercussions to the local pastors and churches ... there is so much more that could be said. It is all very grievous.

[i]For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. [/i] 2Ti 4:3,4

May the Lord spare the sincere sheep and may we ever continue to warn them, I am indebted to the ones that had the courage to warn me.

Why is it the same people that fell for Toronto, Brownsville, Holy Trinity Brompton, Hinn, Copeland, Hagin, Colin Dye, etc will fall for this? It breaks my heart to see yet another wave of deception take the church by storm. However, I am made glad in my spirit that these things are fortold, 2 Thess. 2:11, God will send the delution, (Greek: ERROR)that they might believe a lie! Why does He do this? because He is as sick of it as we are.

We are looking for revival and all along the Lord has responded. He has caused many within the house of faith to acknowlegde that what has been foretold is coming to pass. Warn the saints for sure, and take comfort that our hearts have been warmed to the Word of God, not forsaking his command, that we "love one another". That does not mean we have to love error, delution or deception. It is because we love the brethren that we cry in the midnight hour. Have no pity for such ministry or ministers, preach to the flock that some might be saved from the spell of satan. Can he, satan, be worshiped in the temple of God? You bet! he already is when he has replace truth with lies, light for darkness, Christ with man.

Thank you for posting this warning. No doubt this pernicious doctrine will make its way to Wales. When it does, we shall be ready!

Thank you Andrew, and those who will stand in the day of need.

God bless

Rhys

Last week my family and I were visiting my husband's father in Clearmont Florida. We drove by this church that had a big red banner out front that said "healing service", instantly I got a sick feeling in my stomach. My husband and I both noticed it and just looked at each other and rolled our eyes. We didn't want to say anything with the kids in the car, but we both seemed to know instantly that it was a fraud.

Then I came home and started reading my emails and checking out the posts on this site when I relized that the "revival" church was the same one we drove by on our visit to Florida. It can't just be a coincidence that we just happened to drive by the most talked about church in America at the height of it's success.

I believe the Lord allowed my husband and I to experience the "drive by" to show us something about discernment. I believe the Holy Spirit can let us know in an instant if it is from the Lord of not. We don't have to check it out and research something to know wether or not it truly represnts Christ.

I get so upset when I think of thousands upon thousands of people being deceived by such foolishness. I've talked to many who seem so genuine, who love the Lord with all their heart, mind and soul, but they have not problem excepting all this garbage. I talked to one women today who was boasting about the "big revival" in Fl. When I told her about my "drive by" experience she came back with "well they're preaching the name of Christ. Can the devil preach Christ?" I quoted Zac Poonen from his "Escape Deception" sermon. She really seemed open to truth and said that she would check out the sermon for herself. I know she loves the Lord, I just pray that the Lord will open her eyes to the truth.

In HIM,

Tina

I went to church with an older lady back in the 90's that was a remarkable saint. The type that when you get on the phone with them you can feel His presence and when you shake their hand you feel like you just got bathed in the Spirit of God. Nonetheless she watched TBN and liked some questionable folks on there (not the obvious ones). I gave her a copy of "Christianity in Crisis" by Hank Hanegraaff. Well, when I was in church next Sunday I turned around to where she sits and she was looking at me, she mouthed "I love you" because the Lord showed her through that tape the lies those people are involved in and the spirit they are of.

Zionshield,

Thanks you for sharing this. It's really very encouraging to me. I was thinking of making some copies of Zac Poonen's sermon, but I'm going to have to check out "Christianity in Crisis" also.

I just watched about 1/2 hour of live broadcast
from the Lakeland revival... very disturbing to say the least. They kept repeating things like "open portals" "visitations from angels" "healing impartations" and of course lots of personal "prophesy." People were shaking and jerking out of control in the audience. Then the pastor started screaming "fire, fire, fire" and it reminded me of a sermon Pastor Carter Conlon preached called "Beware Of The Angry Watchmen" in which he talks about another false revival that is going to sweep the country like a wild fire.

Brethren, the day is soon coming when this deception will no longer be tolerated and God lifts the mask from the serpent behind these counterfeit revivals. People will look and see that the diamonds and emeralds and sapphires they have carefully tucked beneath their pillows are really nothing but pretty glass. To think that multitudes have been bewitched into hoarding worthless objects for years and years when they instead could have been laying up the real treasure...well, it's truly sad, and unfortunate; how bequiling and masterful the plan of the enemy is! Feigned revivals operating under a feigned faith, an eggshell-white color that seems virgin-white to everyone except the ones who know both and can differentiate between the two.

I recall while I was living in Russia how literally [i]overnight[/i] peoples' life savings and bank accounts utterly vanished as the economy imploded. You went to bed with 10,000 rubles to your name, and in a few hours you woke up with absolutely nothing, the ruble having depreciated overnight to zilch. People were frantic, in panic, storming the banks, and with futile efforts demanding their money. Of course, it was too late to get anything back. Years and years worth of savings and investments were instantly vaporized, and there were riots all throughout the country.

We need to be ready and keeping our Christ-magnifying vessels clean and pure and blood-washed. The bankrupt poor will see in that day the real diamonds shining through us, the ingrafted Word, Christ our life; a quiet, sober, clean, humble, studious life hid with Christ in God. And though at one time they spoke sneeringly of us for not chasing after the extra-biblical visions and soul-miracles and glitter and flash as they do, they will at once forget the glass they gloated over when they finally see the inimitable sparkle of of the true diamond, of the pearl of great price through the eyes of their own poverty.

The problem is, many yet do not know that they are poor, and that they have their boast in plastic. God must first remove the mask for them to see it. Websites like this are integral in communicating this truth, in exposing the plastic as plastic and the glass as glass, and offering glimpses and tastes of the true fruit, the true riches of God which are able to foster a hunger in others to be likewise filled and robed and washed in the way of God's school.

I haven't looked into this revival and its effects, but I have noticed a few people mention Brownsville. I was blessed to attend those meetings on a couple of occasions and I saw the Lord do an incredible work there. Many committed their lives to Christ. My life was forever impacted. My brother surrendered to God and now serves him full time overseas. I have personally witnessed the fruit of that move of God and can testify that Christ was exalted in those meetings I attended and many repented of sin. Let us pray for discernment before we too quickly judge a work to be of God or not. We may need to take warning, but we may also see the Holy Spirit at work. We do not however want to find ourselves guilty of the sin of the religious leaders in Jesus' day: calling a work of the Holy Spirit a work of the devil (Matthew 12). He doesn't always work in the ways we assume. Just look at the Old Testament prophets. Some of those guys we would have kicked out of our churches. I am making no judgements, just encouraging caution.

sermonindex wrote:
Tonight I heard that the brownsville leaders attended the florida revival and have officially "imparted" their anointing to them and blessed this as the continuation of what God did with them.

Also a prophet from new zealand declared emphatically that "this is revival" right now and its the 5th great awakening in america.

Events prior to the Lords Second Coming
And now, brothers and sisters, let us tell you about the coming again of our Lord Jesus Christ and how we will be gathered together to meet him. Please don't be so easily shaken and troubled by those who say that the day of the Lord has already begun. Even if they claim to have had a vision, a revelation, or a letter supposedly from us, don't believe them. Don't be fooled by what they say.
For that day will not come until there is a great rebellion against God and the man of lawlessness is revealed--the one who brings destruction. He will exalt himself and defy every god there is and tear down every object of adoration and worship. He will position himself in the temple of God, claiming that he himself is God. Don't you remember that I told you this when I was with you? And you know what is holding him back, for he can be revealed only when his time comes. For this lawlessness is already at work secretly, and it will remain secret until the one who is holding it back steps out of the way. Then the man of lawlessness will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will consume with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. [b]This evil man will come to do the work of Satan with counterfeit power and signs and miracles. He will use every kind of wicked deception to fool those who are on their way to destruction because they refuse to believe the truth that would save them. So God will send great deception upon them, and they will believe all these lies. [/b] Then they will be condemned for not believing the truth and for enjoying the evil they do.

NLT 2 Th 2:1-

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I have never commented on Sermon Index but I am sorry I could not hold this back.

They were not like these super heroes we see on TBN raking in millions yearly. They weren't rolling in $$$$.Art and Inger were and are the real deal.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=22630&forum=48#178567]Art Katz wife[/url]

The "revival" has spread to Charlotte.

http://www.morningstarministries.org/Group/Group.aspx?id=1000029627

narrowpath

i watched some of the videos, there is no difference from those videos and to some of the rock/hip hop concerts i went to as unsaved. None, nada nothing. Just some people working up emotions and saying that fuzzy/happy feeling is God.

I will be so bold to say that i suspect the a very large group of "Christians" have no, absolute no understanding of what Christianity actually is in reality.

i will recommend this series to you all, especially you who feel this might be of God.

T.A Sparks

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1632]The spiritual and natural man part 1[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1633]Part 2[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1634]Part 3[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1635]Part 4[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1636]Part 5[/url]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1637]Part 6[/url]

While I'm not a judge of such things as to ,"is this from God or is it New Age or even of the devil", I do approach the people of the Lord with a simplicity of scriptural understanding so that what "SOME" of them have recieved is not lost. When a person is sincere and seeks the Lord for some real need of healing, deliverence, or you fill in the blank, in the midst of even what "MIGHT" be false, that sincere believer will recieve a "REAL" touch from a loving God and Father, rember Jesus said that if we ask of Him bread will He give us a stone...etc....how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask. So God responds to the heart of the individual and is well able to circumvent the "wrong spirits" that may be present and at the same time protect the blameless from decieving spirits. As to Lynn Clark ? My guess is that if you asked her she would confess that at the out set she knew that those teachings were false and decided to expose herself to them anyway and got in over her head and had to cry out to Jesus for help. She wouldn't have needed repentance at all if her conscience would have been clear, but because it was not clear she repented, so her testamony on this matter is somewhat flawed.

Having said what I have here I do always caution following experiences and signs and wonders. Even when they are present in my own life, here's an example: resently I was traveling from Minn. back home to Ohio, a 16 hr trip, I had finished uo in Minn. sunday nite and decided to drive staight home, so I drove through the night, while I was on the Ohio turnpike I stopped at a rest area to refresh my self, I had drove from sunday nite through to monday at around 11:45, I was tired, so while in side I closed my eyes for just a brief moment, it was during that brief moment I had a vision of an elderly man, his face clear in my mind, as I left the rest area this same man was standing at one of the 5 differnt exits, I was to tired to really want to stop, so after I was about 30 feet past this man the Lord spoke to my disobedient heart, I threw out a fleece, if that's you Lord bring him to me, and Jesus did, I turned and that man was headed straight for me, so I meet him half way and told him that Jesus Christ who is God wanted me to pray for him, I asked if he was a christian, he was not, Itold briefly about Jesus, and asked him what was wrong with him? He was in the last stages of a lung ailment and was just waiting really to die, I noticed he couldn't breath. So I prayed and the Lord healed him there on the spot, it surprised us both, praise the Lord! That said, as I drove off from the encounter I did not embrace that manifestation of God's healing power as something to follow, it was not the norm, and neither are these visitations in Florida. Experiences come and go but the Word of the Lord abides forever. I think really those who will come to the river of God's Word will find all that they desire. But as humans we like the entertainment value of a manifestation like the one in Florida.

Krispy,
Bob Jones moral failures DID disqualify him from the ministry for a few years actually. One of the staff pastors where I also serve on staff lived in Kansas City at the time he was under discipline. He said he was indeed disciplined and restricted from ministry. The Bible tells us that if a minister fails he is not disqualified from ministry, but needs to be restored by mature and spiritual bretheren. To disagree with his "revelations" is one thing, to say that moral failure which was disciplined, and repented of publicly disqualifies one for ministry is quite another.

And to the rest . . . I have always appreciated your desire for the genuine. I still do to this day. We clearly do not agree on many subjects . . . for instance I am a graduate of the Brownsville Revival School of Ministry. I know that this in and of itself would disqualify anything that I have to say as being genuine in many of your eyes. While I certainly do not claim to be an expert on this subject I would caution all to be careful and not to label someone as a false prophet (scripturally this would put the person in a hellbound state). Perhaps you believe that they are in error, but to call them false is far different.

I would simply encourage you to watch what is happening and see if fruit comes from it. We'll see right?

God bless,
Jeff

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With that much time on your hands I see why you had the deep insight.Maybe your name should be eagle eye!

Friend, leave the sarcasm at the door. The truth is, your first "subject" in these forums was public plea for money to be sent to Inger Katz. This is an embarassment to the Katz family, and it dishonors Art. It was posted without discretion, without wisdom (as your last two posts also indicate), and it went absolutely nowhere and died quickly for a reason. And now you would show us all your wit...and we are still not impressed.

Banjoe, we ask that you pray before posting. This site is not a "preacher hall of fame"; it is a collection of outstanding resources for God's children to grow by and fellowship, but contention will not be tolerated.

If you have further questions or concerns, contact one of us privately.

Thank you,

Paul

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Banjoe,

You are making quite a few assumptions for someone new to their surroundings. Only brought up your previous post because it seemed duplicitous, in the one you decry the excess and here you defend seemingly.

I think you also have very little understanding of those that contribute here and with some patience and searching through the site you might have an altogether different perspective.

It is wonderful that you were able to be with both Inga and Art as you described and I hope that many will pray for Inga, surely not an easy thing to disclose as you mentioned. There are many here that love dear Art and all that he brought to us before he went home, he unashamedly would be granted a high status if this were merely a preachers hall of fame.

I also believe he would be denouncing this latest insurrection as fleshly, spurious and plastic.

Dig in to the site, there is a wealth of resources from preachers and writers and all walks in-between.

In my understanding of sin, human nature, it is one thing to sin in a moment of weakness and quite another to work in 'fulfilling' a sinful desire which is what I would understand the problem to be with Bob Jones, et al. A person who sins in a moment of weakness will quickly repent and do what needs to be done to repair the damage done.

My thoughts..

ginnyrose

It was with love and concern for a good woman.Please do not confuse your opinion with facts.Of course it died quickly because there was nothing to discuss.

I wonder how many of you have viewed pornography on the same computer you view this site?

JESUS, SEND REVIVAL! WE ARE A HUNGRY AND DESPERATE PEOPLE!

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Banjoe,

Being full of blemishes and imperfect before God and a "screw up" does not give us the liberty to post sarcastically and make blanket assumptions which we are not able to qualify. But I do understand your concerns, friend, because I too am the king of failures. However, a man can be full of failure and yet humble and discerning. It is by failure that humility is learnt. I was wrong to judge your love for Art's wife, please forgive me.

If all you took from my entire blog was that I have no peace and I just want to be heard...well, I am very sorry for this. See - I told you I was the king of failures.

The Lord bless your stay here,

Brother Paul

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Brethren,

It is really amazing what even the [i]discussions[/i] revolving around what is false can do to us as a body. I have a few Brownsville VHS tapes with Steve Hill and Lindel Cooley and Dr. Michael Brown and Kirkpatrick. I had a few baptism tapes, and I watched the official Brownsville documentary a few years ago, when the revival was still going pretty strong.

I appreciated some of the things I saw, some of Hill's sermons (like "The Death of Mr. Me"), but looking back on it all, I can't recognize that anything in particular was imparted unto my spirit by God of eternal measure, and I can't help but compare this to the mighty inner transformation in myself wrought by the Lord speaking through Keith Daniel...without all the crazy laughter and energetic acrobatics and overall carnival atmosphere. Perhaps some soul walked away from Brownsville transformed by God, though I tend to believe the bulk of people experienced the same as I did: a stirring for sure, a temporary high, an undoubtable [i]charge[/i] in the air of the meeting place that was able to excite the soul but really do nothing more in terms of growth toward holiness.

I know that the mere discussion and consideration of these things often leads to soulish disputes and believers' feelings getting hurt. This alone should tell us that we are venturing into the carnal without even having experienced the "revival" in question. There's just something about these types of discussions, much the same as when believers begin discussing tattoos, music, clothes, and any other demonstration or statement on the physical surface of our vessels - which invariably drives us to both ardently defend and attack who we are and what we believe about God. The objects [i]beneath[/i] the surface of our vessels, however: love, patience, humility, righteousness, gentleness of speech, cleanliness of conscience (the real, indisputable impartations of God upon the life of a believer and result of personal revival), these things never once seem to be mentioned in the course of the discussion; I suppose they are quite uninteresting to muse over because of their inability to produce fireworks. The focus is instead always on the physical manifestations and whether or not they are of God, and such has become even in the eys of many the litmus test of real or false revival! Maniacal laughter, weird movements, jerking, shaking, dancing, speaking in tongues, falling down; why, dear brethren, why do all these things have such an allure on us? I would just as soon not attempt to doctrinalize, realizing also that God is also able to sovereignally confound. Oh, brethren, we must love the Word, the God of the Word! We will have understanding then, and safe discernment. He will tell us when to step back and when to stay our hands.

I believe it is because something deeper is still lacking on the inside, a principle within that has yet to be instilled by God, and for this reason we are continually entralled and preoccupied by the outer manifestions and chasing after revivals as vivacioulsy as storm travellers track hurricanes and tornados. But to have met God in the quiet place and experienced the precious genuine communion and holy intimacy with Christ, all these outer manifestations that appear to typify these last day, pocket "revivals" can just seem so brutish, so grotesque....and so unlike the Father I have come to know and cherish in a very personal way. But how do you explain this?

May the Lord give us true discernment, so that we will really know the difference between what is of Him, and the counterfeit works of the devil. There can only be a counterfeit of the true, and many true revivals of God have been derailed because the counterfeit has come in, and many in the Church did not discern it when it happened.

It is interesting and helpful to study the Great Awakening and the manifestations that took place in this great revival. The same arguments for and against the Great Awakening are again before us as to whether or not what is taking place in Florida is of God or not.

There is one group of saints that completely reject anything supernatural as being of the devil. You wonder if they have ever read the Word of God. Of course many of these same believers believe that miracles, signs and wonders no longer take place.

Another large segment of the Church accepts all signs and wonders as being from God. They fail to test the spirits and end up in deception.

There is a remnant of the Church that is exercising true discernment. They are allowing the Spirit of truth to lead them in the way of truth, and they are also rightly dividing the Word of God.

The problem that Jonathan Edwards had in the Great Awakening is the same problem that we have in today's Church, and that is that in a true revival there will be miracales, signs, and wonders taking place, but right along side of it the counterfeit will also be there. So instead of throwing out the baby with the bathwater, we must exercise discernment accepting and receiving that which is of God and brings forth true fruit to the glory of God and rejecting that which caters to the flesh of man and brings glory to man and not God.

The same man that wrote the article about the Florida revival as being not of God also wrote many articles about the Brownsville Revival not being of God. This is a matter of throwing out the baby with the bathwater and not discerning between the true and the false. While I would not accept every manifestation that took place in that revival as being from the Lord, there was much fruit that came out of this revival. There was strong anointed gospel preaching of repentance and holiness during this revival. Many were saved, and many backsliders were restored. I know many young people that were impacted by this revival that are still on fire with the Lord today.

Many of the great revivals throughout history were rejected by some of the well known Church leaders of the day. The move of God that Andrew Murray had prayed for came and he rejected it at first until the Lord opened his eyes.

There will be miracles, signs and wonders poured out as the Holy Spirit manifest Himself, just as He did at Pentecost. We know that in the last days the enemy will deceive many with the false and the counterfeit. The Spirit of truth will lead us into all truth and give us discernment as to what is of God and what isn't. What is of God will cause our love and devotion to the Lord to grow. If it is causing people to become more like Jesus then it is of God. If it leaves people in their sin with no conviction or repentance, then it is not of God. All true revivals will be Christ centered and will bring glory to God. All false revivals will lift up a man or a ministry.

Dearest brother,

I can testify as one of those "souls" that walked away from Brownsville transformed. I visited as a carnal, pleasure loving, perverse pastor's son in 1997. My life was radically transformed. The fire and hunger for genuine revival has burned with great intensity in my heart ever since. After graduation my wife and I moved there and I attended the Brownsville Revival School of Ministry. I have never witnessed such genuine humility and desire for God amongst church leadership in my entire life. The pastors and leaders (many of whom I was priveleged to know on a semi-personal level)were some of the most sincere, prayerful and Godly people I have ever met. The standard of holiness and purity was of a caliber I have yet to witness anywhere else. The real power of it was that holiness and purity were the norm, yet there was not a hint of legalism attached to it. It was not a holiness birthed out of some sort of pseudo-scriptural fear, but out of gratefulness and love. I'm telling, I have never witnessed such a holy atmosphere amongst believers anywhere thus far. NEVER and I truly mean NEVER in my life have I ever witnessed a greater passion for the message of the cross. So often in pentecostal and charismatic churches, we emphasize ressurection but ignore the cross. While at Brownsville, however, I heard the cross preached almost daily with a passion that would rival Paul Washer (and that is not said as an insult but a compliment as I enjoy MOST of his ministry).

I am now in full time pastoral ministry. My wife and I's lives were dramatically altered. Perhaps it was that my 16 year old mind was naive and did not even know how to be judgmental. Perhaps that allowed me to eat the meat and spit out the bones . . . I don't know. All I can say is that the fire of heaven touched my life and I have never been the same. I can testify to the fact that there are hundreds like me all over America. Many of them are the dearest of friends to my wife and I. Many of them are spending and pouring out their lives on behalf of the impoverished and lost in third world nations. Many of them are preaching as itinerant ministers, spreading the message of holiness and revival whereever they go. Many of them are humbly serving in local churches, faithfully preaching the word of God.

I and hundreds like me have been forever changed by the power of God.

Just my two cents...

God bless,
Jeff

Easy folks ...

Carter Conlon sums this all up nicely. This is sincere discernment!!!

Absolutely, this is a must listen to. I just downloaded this one and "A Gospel of Slaugher" last night! I'm making copies and passing them out to people who are under this delusion. I've already have people tell me that I'm being "lead astray" because I don't think this current "revival" is of God. I'd like to know what or who is leading me astray... the Word of God perhaps?! How are people so ready to follow a man or a movement and reject the word of God?!