CHARISMA- "QUESTIONS About LAKELAND"

[b]HONEST QUESTIONS ABOUT the LAKELAND REVIVAL[/b]
[i]by J. Lee Grady [CHARISMA EDITOR][/i]

I support any holy outbreak of revival fervor. But let’s be careful to
guard ourselves from pride and error.

God is stirring deep spiritual passion in the hearts of the thousands
of people who have traveled to Florida during the last month to
experience the Lakeland Healing Revival. Since these meetings
began in a 700-seat church on April 2, the crowd has moved four
times to bigger venues, the fervor has intensified and the news
has spread worldwide—thanks to God TV and online broadcasting.

Within a few weeks, the bandwagon effect was in full swing. It’s
safe to say that no outbreak of Pentecostalism in history has
gained so much international exposure so quickly as these
meetings have.

I’m a cheerleader for the charismatic movement, so I rejoiced
when I heard the news about revivalist Todd Bentley’s extended
visit to Ignited Church. It was thrilling to hear the reports of
miracles and to watch the crowd grow until a stadium was
required to hold everyone.

When I visited a service on April 15, I was blessed by Heather
Clark’s music and the audience’s exuberant worship. And I
laughed with everyone else as I watched Bentley shout his
trademarked “Bam! Bam! Bam!” as he prayed for the sick and
flailed his tattooed arms over the crowd. Hey, Jesus didn’t pray for
people according to the Pharisees’ rulebook, so I’m open to
unconventional methods.

But I would be dishonest if I told you that I wholeheartedly
embraced what I saw in Lakeland. Something disturbed me, but I
kept my mouth shut for three weeks while I prayed, got counsel
from respected ministry leaders and searched my heart to make
sure I was not harboring a religious spirit. The last thing we need
today is more mean-spirited heresy hunters blasting other Christians.

I am not a heresy hunter, and I support what is happening in
Lakeland because I know God uses imperfect people (like me and
you) to reach others for Jesus. At the same time, I believe my
questions are honest and my concerns are real.

My motive is not to criticize Bentley or the pastor who is
sponsoring these meetings, Stephen Strader. In September 2002
Charisma featured a seven-page article about Bentley’s amazing
conversion from drug addiction. I believe Bentley is a sincere
brother who wants people to encounter God’s presence and power.
No doubt this 32-year-old evangelist needs our prayers now more
than ever, especially since he has become the focus of
international media attention.

But as the noise from Lakeland grows louder and its influence
spreads, I’m issuing some words of warning that apply to all of us,
not just the folks in Lakeland. I hope everyone understands that
these cautions are offered in love:

1. Beware of strange fire.The name of Jesus is being lifted up in
the Lakeland revival, and three people came to the altar for
salvation the night I attended. Larger numbers have come to the
front of the auditorium to find Christ every night since then.

Yet I fear another message is also being preached subtly in
Lakeland—a message that cult-watchers would describe as a
spiritual counterfeit. Bentley is one of several charismatic
ministers who have emphasized angels in the last several years.
He has taught about angels who bring financial breakthroughs or
revelations, and he sometimes refers to an angel named Emma
who supposedly played a role in initiating a prophetic movement in
Kansas City in the 1980s. Bentley describes Emma as a woman
in a flowing white dress who floats a few feet off the floor.

All of us who believe the Bible know that angels are real, and that
they work on our behalf to protect us and minister to us. But the
apostle Paul, who had encounters with angels himself, issued
stern warnings to the Corinthians, the Galatians and the
Colossians about angels who preach another gospel or that
demand attention. In Colossae, believers were so enamored with
angels they had seen in visions that they became “inflated without
cause” by spiritual pride (Col. 2:18, NASB). Paul was adamant
that preoccupation with angels can lead to serious deception.

We need to tread carefully here! We have no business teaching
God’s people to commune with angels or to seek revelations from
them. And if any revival movement—no matter how exciting or
passionate—mixes the gospel of Jesus with this strange fire, the
results could be devastating. We need to remember that
Mormonism was born out of one man’s encounter with a dark
angel who claimed to speak for God.

2. Beware of bizarre manifestations.When the Holy Spirit’s power
comes on people they may feel weak or even fall. The Spirit’s
power can also cause people to tremble, shake, laugh or cry.
Such manifestations are biblical and we should leave room for
them. But where do we draw the line between legitimate
experience and fanatical excess?

The apostle Paul had to deal with outrageous charismatic
manifestations in the Corinthian church. People were acting like
raving lunatics—and turning the church in to a free-for-all of
unbridled ecstatic behavior. Paul called for discipline and order,
and he reminded early Christians that “the spirits of prophets are
subject to prophets” (1 Cor. 14:32). In other words, Paul was
saying that no one under the influence of the Holy Spirit should
act out of control.

In many recent charismatic revivals, ministers have allowed people
to behave like epileptics on stage—and they have attributed their
attention-getting antics to the Holy Spirit. We may think it’s all in
fun (you know, we’re just “acting crazy” for God) but we should be
more concerned that such behavior feeds carnality and grieves the Spirit.

When exotic manifestations are encouraged, people can actually
get a religious high from jerking, vibrating, screaming or acting
intoxicated. (I have even been around people who writhed as if in
pain, or made sexual noises—thinking this was a legitimate
spiritual experience.) But emotional euphoria doesn’t guarantee a
heart change. The person who is bucking like an untamed bronco
in a church service would benefit more from sitting still and reading
the Bible for an hour. When we put bizarre behavior on the platform
we imply that it is normative. Thus more strange fire is allowed to spread..

3. Beware of hype and exaggeration.Our hearts are crying out
today for a genuine move of God. We want the real deal. We’ve
read about the Great Awakenings of the past and we long to see
our nation overcome by a wave of repentance. The church is in a
backslidden state, and our nation has rebelled against God. We
are desperate!

In our longing for a holy visitation, however, we must be careful not
to call the first faint breeze of the Spirit a full-fledged revival. If we do
that, we are setting people up for disappointment when they realize it may not
be what we blew it up to be.

Some of the language used during the Lakeland Revival has
created an almost sideshow atmosphere. People are invited to
“Come and get some.” Miracles are supposedly “popping like
popcorn.” Organizers tout it as the greatest revival in history.

Such brash statements cheapen what the Holy Spirit is doing—
and they do a disservice to our brothers and sisters who are
experiencing New Testament-style revival in countries such as Iran,
China and India. We have a long way to go before we experience
their level of revival. Let’s stay humble and broken before the Lord.

I am rejoicing over all the reported healings at the Lakeland
meetings. Miracles are awesome. Crowds are great. But miracles
and crowds alone don’t guarantee a revival. Multitudes followed
Jesus during His ministry on earth, but many of the people who
saw the dead raised or ate food that was supernaturally multiplied
later crucified the Son of God.

It was the few disciples who followed Jesus after Calvary who
ushered in a true revival—one that was bathed in the fear of God,
confirmed by signs and wonders, tempered by persecution and
evidenced by thousands of conversions, new churches and the
transformation of society. We should expect nothing less.
-J. Lee Grady is editor of Charisma.

Wow... when Charisma magazine starts to use discernment and questioning... you [b]know[/b] there's a problem!

Krispy

Wow... when Charisma magazine starts to use discernment and questioning... you know there's a problem!

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Wow... when Charisma magazine starts to use discernment and questioning... you [b]know[/b] there's a problem!

Krispy

Man Krispy aren't you glad God gave us His Word and the Spirit to understand it.

I haven't read about EMMA. I have read about Michael and Gabriel though.
moe

Well we've been praying for some discernment for people concerning this. I thank God that we have some encouragement here. Let's keep on praying for our brother that they will be plucked out of this pit!!!

That is the problem with Andrew Strom and many heresy hunters. They only see what is wrong with people and movements, and they fail to see the good.

Wellll... thats kinda like looking for something eat in a dumpster behind a McDonalds. Sure, you might find a pickles thats ok to eat, but you have to immerse yourself in the garbage to get to it.

You do not understand what scripture is saying when it says to "hold fast to that which is good". God is [b]not[/b] telling us that we should ignore gross heresy, and look for the good in everything.

In fact, scripture [b]commands[/b] us to "mark and avoid" false teachers. Check it out:

[b]Romans 16:17[/b] [i]Now I beseech you, brethren, [b]mark them[/b] which cause divisions and offenses [b]contrary to the doctrine[/b] which ye have learned; and [b]avoid them[/b].[/i]

It doesnt say "read their books and gleen the good stuff...", or another favorite among some, "eat the meat and spit out the bones".

No, scripture NEVER one time makes that suggestion. Scripture is clear to mark and avoid those who are teaching heresy. Scripture is repleat with references of being seperated unto God... and thats not just seperate from what we consider the world to be, but also to seperate ourselves from those who teach heresies.

[b]2 John 1:10-11[/b] [i]If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him Godspeed: For he that biddeth him Godspeed is partaker of his evil deeds.[/i]

I would say that the ones that have been saved and healed at these meetings would not agree with many of the criticisms of Todd Bentley.

I dont know that anyone has truly been healed... where is the medical evidence? So far there are no medically documented healings.

And as for those who have been saved... truly saved... they couldnt possibly be mature enough in the Lord, or knowledgable of scripture to know whether this "event" is of God or not. It's rediculous to assert that they would be.

may we be delivered from a critical faultfinding spirit.

Funny... Paul went after the false teachers of his time with much tenacity, and even named their names for all people to read for 2,000 years. I guess in your book Paul had a critical faultfinding spirit? I beg to differ... the Spirit he had was the Holy Spirit, and the words Paul wrote were the Holy Spirits.

Paul set the example for how we are to handle false teachings and teachers... and it wasnt the way you suggest. Your way is spiritually naive and dangerous.

Krispy

KrispyKrittr wrote:

Wellll... thats kinda like looking for something eat in a dumpster behind a McDonalds. Sure, you might find a pickles thats ok to eat, but you have to immerse yourself in the garbage to get to it.
Krispy

Watch it now, if you get off on someone getting into the McDonalds dumpster for a pickle, I may have make a post about McDonalds trying to become a dumpster. I may go off about those PINK arches they have in their COMPANY plans and GO OFF ON them giving money to the homosexual movement, you know how I am about getting off the thread Krispy. 8-)

I may go off about those PINK arches they have in their COMPANY plans and GO OFF ON them giving money to the homosexual movement, you know how I am about getting off the thread Krispy.

yea... I always wondered about the Hamburgler!

Seriously tho... My last post was a bit harsher than I intended it to be. I can see how someone would think I was being snide. I didnt mean at all for it to come out that way.

Krispy

I didn't have no problem with what you posted, about false teachers and Bentley. I agree , the only point I have is, it is like what you said about telling a Christians who to vote for, they should know that already if they are Christians!!

Compton wrote:

the only point I have is, it is like what you said about telling a Christians who to vote for, they should know that already if they are Christians!!

I normally would agree Moe...but unfortunately most Christians today are so open minded that their brains fall out. This is what happens when we elevate our own 'words from God' to the actual Word of God.

MC

I think you are right, I agree, should know, but don't know. Ever learning but never coming. Amen

We have to love more.
We have to DEMONSTRATE what it means to be really filled with the Holy Spirit, not just condemn the false.
Deceived people get very irritated when you bombard them full throttle about their error.
You have to take them step by step, and wait how God leads you.
Again it is Jude who says:

22Be merciful to those who doubt; 23snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

narrowpath
(currently in Tehran, they haven't blocked this site here, PTL and shhhh)

I agree we have to love more when giving truth but giving the truth to a deceived lost person and allowing the Holy Spirit to take the Word of God and convict is the greatest love of one can have. A deceived lost person can never get to the cross until they realize how deceived they have been all their life and realizing how helpless they are without HIS grace and mercy. If we act in away that is to trival, will appear that we are comfortable with a lie or sin and we act in a way as though we are just really laid back when talking to them about their ignorance?

I would say the liars got racked over the coals pretty well in Jude.
Jude 12-13

12 These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;

13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.
KJV

I do agree with that. He is playing both sides but I was encouraged, to a degree, he has acknowledged the side that has been speaking against this. He's the editor of a magazine that many of the people in this movement subscribe too so there is a lot of pressure for him to be subtle in the introduction...not to mention there is money involved with sales of the magazine.

I don't condone this at all, I'm merely making an observation. To me someone who was moving in the conviction of the Holy Spirit and has a piercing revelation into a false movement would forsake all (magazine subscriptions...money etc) and come out against it like Luther against the Catholic Church (former Catholic here).

If I were called upon to say what I mean by a genuine revival of religion, as distinguished from a spurious one, I should draw the line of distinction by saying, that a genuine revival is one which is produced by the exhibition of Gospel Truth, faithfully presented to the mind, and applied by the power of the Holy Spirit. And that all high religious excitement or commotion produced by other means than the impression of truth, is the essence of fanaticism. It is a spurious work, adapted to bring genuine revivals into disrepute, and to send a blast instead of a blessing on the Church of God; and, of course, the more extended and powerful, the more to be deplored.

It is no uncommon or difficult thing to work upon the animal feelings of assembled multitudes, by mere terror, by sympathy, by vehement addresses, by fine music, by a great variety of means in which Gospel truth is not presented, and has no influence. Those who are aware what a fearfully and wonderfully made piece of machinery human nature is, and especially how susceptible of strong and diversified impression are the nerves and sympathies of that nature, will not wonder, though they may not be able fully to explain, why such powerful effects flow from a little adroit management...It is surely unnecessary to remark, that such revivals are a disgrace to the name; that they are the fruit of animal excitement merely; and that every enlightened friend of the Redeemer's kingdom, must mourn over their character and tendency.

It is not mere excitement then, in which the animal feelings of many are roused and agitated, and in which the mere principles of nature are addressed, and called into powerful action, that constitutes a genuine revival of religion. For, as there can be no real piety in any individual heart without the reception and love of the fundamental doctrines of the Gospel; so we must estimate the real character of every religious excitement which claims to be a revival, by the degree in which pure Gospel truth is presented, embraced, and obeyed. However widespread and powerful the excitement may be, it ought ever to be brought to this obvious, fair, and decisive test: Is it produced by a blessing on the truth plainly and faithfully presented? Is it throughout regulated by the truth? And do its professed subjects manifest a general and cordial love of Gospel truth? Are their views of the character of God, of his holy law, of sin, of the ground of acceptance, and of Christian hope, -- I do not say perfectly -- but in the main, accordant with the Bible views of those great subjects? If so, we may hail the work with joy, and bid Godspeed to those who are instrumental in commencing and giving it direction. If the subjects of it, in giving a reason of their anxiety, or of the hope that is in them, appear to be moved by scriptural views of truth, addressed to the conscience and the heart; if in giving an account of their distress or their peace they manifest that their views of themselves, of the Savior, and of Christian confidence towards God, are in substance, those which the Scriptures authorize; and if they evidently bring forth the fruits of holy living, -- we must denominate such a revival a work of God, -- thank him for it, and rejoice in it as a rich blessing. But if by some strong excitement, addressed to the animal feelings, we could so work upon the nervous system of hundreds, or even thousands in a great assembly, as to constrain them to weep, to cry out with terror, to fall prostrate, and to fill the house with sobbing and groans; if this were all, we must pronounce it a spurious work, the product of fanaticism and not of the Holy Spirit.

I am persuaded, my Christian brethren, that this is a point of more practical importance than is commonly imagined. To say that spurious revivals are of no use to the Church of God, is to express but a small part of the truth. They are a dreadful curse to any church. They exert a most pestiferous influence. They deceive and destroy the souls of men. They harden the worldly and the infidel in tenfold obduracy. They leave a country over which they have passed arid and desolate, like that over which a raging fire has swept, and laid it all a gloomy waste.
I have more than once witnessed strong and extensive religious excitements, evidently produced by powerful appeals to animal feeling and sympathy, without suitable exhibitions of Gospel truth. The effects were, indeed, plausible, and adapted to make a deep popular impression. They did make such an impression; and were trumpeted far and wide as glorious revivals of religion. But, in a few months, the real character of these excitements was painfully disclosed. In a great majority of cases the impressions made, like the morning cloud and the early dew, soon entirely passed away; while the small minority who held out long enough to make a public profession of religion, and some who, in the fervor of their first exercises, offered themselves as candidates for the holy ministry, soon made it too evident by their unhappy mixture of levity, ignorance, censoriousness, and claims of high attainment, that they needed a new conversion before they could be fitted to adorn or to edify the Church.

I repeat it then, experience proves that spurious revivals have been mistaken for genuine, and may be mistaken for them again; and that we ought never to recognize as genuine any revival which is not produced by the instrumentality of truth, which is not regulated by the truth, and which does not bring forth the fruits of truth. All else is fanatical excitement. Like a fever in the human body, it cannot fail of leaving the system relaxed and debilitated, when it declines. Like counterfeit money, it excites deep doubt and distrust wherever it comes, and ultimately interferes with the circulation of genuine coin. Beloved, says an inspired Apostle, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

Well meaning, sanguine Christians, may fondly hope, that if the Spirit of God be really present, there is nothing to fear. But his own word, as well as the history of his dealings with the Church, plainly shows that he is a Spirit of order and of love; and that whenever there is a striking departure from either, there he will not remain; but will leave such a people to greater hardness, apathy, and unbelief, than ever.

Let anyone who really desires to know the truth on this subject, look into the Apostolical Epistles, especially into the fourteenth chapter of the first Epistle to the Corinthians, and he will there see that, even under the ministrations of inspired men, gross disorders creeping into a church were found quite sufficient to mar the work of the Holy Spirit, and to impede the progress of the truth. Let him look into the forth part of the venerable President Edwards' Thoughts concerning the Revival of Religion, which appeared in our country more than ninety years ago, and he will perceive that that eminently wise and holy man saw and lamented disorders amidst the glorious revivals which then blessed the Church, and had no doubt of the deplorable mischiefs produced by them. Let him read the accounts of the disorders introduced into New England by Davenport and his associates, during the great revivals under the ministry of Whitefield and his excellent coadjutors, many years since; and if he have a particle of sincere love for the kingdom of Christ, he will mourn over the evils which those disorders occasioned, grieving the hearts of God's people, tearing the churches in pieces, and causing the Holy Spirit to depart, and give them up to strife, and finally to coldness, stupidity, and desolation.

If any desire to know what the particular disorders are, to which allusion is intended in these references; I answer, the very same disorders which the venerable President Edwards, and other eminently wise and pious ministers of the Gospel, lamented and opposed nearly a century ago, and which wrought such complicated and wide spread mischiefs then, and many years afterwards...the object of which was to produce strong excitement, have been tried a hundred times, in various countries and ages, have been uniformly found to work ill in the end, and have been unanimously condemned by judicious Christians as unscriptural and mischievous. They disgust intelligent, reflecting people. They drive many from the house of God, and, perhaps harden them in hopeless infidelity. And they confirm the prejudices of many against revivals altogether. And yet there are those who believe those very means adapted to do good, and who are disposed to try them again! The truth is, there are good people who imagine that unless high popular excitement and agitation be produced, nothing desirable is done. They are ready, therefore, to adopt any new and bold measure which promises to produce the effect. Their delight is in public excitement; in producing effects on large masses of people analogous to the influence of strong drink on the animal body; not remembering that, as in the case of strong drink, such excitement is unnatural; that it is unfriendly to the calm, intelligent and humble exercise of Christian grace; that it cannot long continue; and that it will never fail to be followed by morbid depression, and debility in the end...

(excerpts from Revival by S. Miller)