your best life now; your worst eternity forever. Joel Olsteen,the flower of TBN theology.

There has been a lot said lately about the heresies, with the big splash in Florida and all, but has anyone else felt that lately, the enemy has been "upping the ante?"

It seems that the subtlety of the seductions have been replaced with an open, frontal, in your face, GLADIATOR type assault against the Christ and His Remnant. This appears to be more like a [b]FLOOD[/b] than an overflow. ISAIAH 61 speaks of a coming GROSS darkness that would sweep the Earth.

My brothers and sisters, are we watching it unfold before our very eyes?

Each day it seems, another tsunami of filth, masking itself in GOD words,[ see Satan's words to Jesus in the desert before His ministry] rolls across the landscape. Everything that CAN be shaken WILL be shaken.

In the Early days of TBN, there was some life, believe it or not. In the early '80s, the Faith Word folks won out, commandeering the network into complete submission to their doctrines that the believer was [b]entitled[/b] to health, happiness, and , of course [b]prosperity[/b] as a right.

All of these are part of the blessings of the Lord of course, but without the discipline of the Lord, and the Cross that will slay or evil natures, they will, and have became the epitome of pride itself; Satan in us[,deceived Adam] gone wild with lust, for these blessings.

See the sins of Sodom in Isaiah. Fullness and blessing without mercy.

So Joel just wrote a best seller, of course, "Your Best Life Now". I watched him on this Sunday, at a friends as we surfed his TV. He described a recent trip to Italy.

In this trip, he walked down a street in an unnamed Italian city with his wife, and decided to enter a Catholic church while MASS was being celebrated. [ That's where Jesus is recrucified and his real blood, and real body is magically transformed by the priests to be consumed by the church.]

In this experience, In Italian of course, he experienced the glorious presence of God emanating from this unholy ritual. "It was so wonderful", and he related it to the millions watching, and the huge live crowd in glowing terms. His father, John, now deceased, from whom he inherited the church, would have shot him, I think.

Endorsing Roman Catholicism is no problem you see, as long as we are healthy, happy, and prosperous. It's all about your best life now.

Isn't that what Jesus died for?

Brothertom wrote:

Endorsing Roman Catholicism is no problem you see, as long as we are healthy, happy, and prosperous. It's all about your best life now.

Isn't that what Jesus died for?

On nation wide TV on the Larry King show Olsten said that he agreed Jesus was not the only way. He evidently went to seminary with Obama's Pastor.
Olsten uses very little scripture when preaching.
He preaches everything on earth is coming up roses.
Olsten is about as far off base in the doctrine he teaches, as the people who are going to attempt to earn their salvation, before the rapture, in great tribulation before the 7th trumpet even sounds.
As Christian we do have trials and tribulations, but not the great..
Exactly who is the great triblation for?
Rev 3:10-13
10 Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come upon the whole world to test those who live on the earth.
11 I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name. 13 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Rev 18:10-13

"'Woe! Woe, O great city,
O Babylon, city of power!
In one hour your doom has come!'

11 "The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes any more- 12 cargoes of gold, silver, precious stones and pearls; fine linen, purple, silk and scarlet cloth; every sort of citron wood, and articles of every kind made of ivory, costly wood, bronze, iron and marble; 13 cargoes of cinnamon and spice, of incense, myrrh and frankincense, of wine and olive oil, of fine flour and wheat; cattle and sheep; horses and carriages; and bodies and souls of men.

If we are in Christ, we are not in Babylon!!!

I saw this book in a christian bookstore recently called:

[size=x-small]"Your All That"[/size]

:-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P :-P

Luke 22:35-46

35 Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"

"Nothing," they answered.

36 He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. 37 It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

38 The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords."

"That is enough," he replied.

39 Jesus went out as usual to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples followed him. 40 On reaching the place, he said to them, "Pray that you will not fall into temptation." 41 He withdrew about a stone's throw beyond them, knelt down and prayed, 42 "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done." 43 An angel from heaven appeared to him and strengthened him. 44 And being in anguish, he prayed more earnestly, and his sweat was like drops of blood falling to the ground.

45 When he rose from prayer and went back to the disciples, he found them asleep, exhausted from sorrow. 46 "Why are you sleeping?" he asked them. "Get up and pray so that you will not fall into temptation."

When the Bride dominates the Bridegroom, you have something akin to Jezebel. She usurped absolute authority over the kingdom.

Sound familiar?..."We are the head, and not the tail!"

The problem is, that with this attitude, Jesus is the tail.[blasphemy]

Hereby the attitude , even with a strait face, "Your All That!"

If we saw ourselves as Job, John and Paul did, in the light of His Purity, we would fall as dead men, mourning the spirit of our corruption.

"In the Early days of TBN, there was some life, believe it or not. In the early '80s, the Faith Word folks won out, commandeering the network into complete submission to their doctrines that the believer was entitled to health, happiness, and , of course prosperity as a right." Brothertom

Have you noticed that many of the prosperity people are the ones in front of the camera when TBN does a pledge drive? If you want funding for your broadcast and programming, the prosperity preacher audience are the one's you want on your side. Notice that GOD TV has taken that page right from TBN? They show all of the prosperity ministries (Copeland, Creflo, etc) in a regularly scheduled manner. The prosperity contingent are 'the givers', the one's most likely to open up their wallets for a promised 100 fold blessing.
Europe is getting their fill of this stuff....and Bentley to boot. And who needs TV? None of this Bentley stuff has hit the mainstream... but no matter, the internet is, and will be, the main method of propagating this sweeping deception accross the globe... and right under the nose of your next door neighbor who is a nice, decent, guy but is a simple person who goes to work, comes home, spends time with the family, works in the garage, and takes in a baseball game before he winds down for bed. Sheesh.

Rauch34: I think of real revival and the holy preaching of the Apostles and the historic true brethren who likewise brought the light of a terrifying and convicting word.......[b]REPENT, FOR THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS AT HAND![/b]

Isn't this, and exactly this, what the true gospel emanates??

I think so. It is not about a good life here, as we rest in peace in our old Adamic pride. Our plight without Him is too awful to imagine, but it surely can be more comfortable if we never behold it.

God send us holy men and women that will emit conviction in the church and out to the lost, so we can awake, and see.

Well spoken and amen.

I like what Jesus said about the hireling. "The hireling flees [b]because[/b] he is a hireling. In effect, he is there for the money, and he is gone with the money; looking for another flock to fleece.

A gospel preached that includes Lordship of Jesus, without reservation, will produce a church that looks like Hebrews 11, and has their Faith. "Whom the World was not worthy."

We honor Him because only He is worthy, whether we receive a hundred fold blessing, or are burnt alive at the stake.

Brothertom...an amen to you as well.

The hireling Jesus spoke of is exactly the parable that sums up what I was saying. Such simple truth, as sad as it is.

you people have it all wrong.
Yes, the love of money is the root of all evil but the appreciation of money is another thing altogether.

I was not talking of love nor appreciation... I never used those words.

If a preacher makes an implication, even to the smallest degree, through scripture that if one gives money to their ministry will receive a return such in such fold, this is in error.

Perhaps before we proceed you should define EXACTLY what the difference is between love and appreciation and how this translates to the discussion.

Rev enue.. I took the bait.... clever!

I have heard Joel Osteen before, I've read quite a bit about him... and I'm not surprised by his lack of Biblical discernment. He strikes me as being quite ignorant of Scripture, frankly. He is a motivational speaker, not a Bible teacher. The only problem is he does not motivate people from a scriptural frame of reference... it is, in fact, a very humanistic frame of reference... what makes ME feel good.

And scripture warns of this.

Krispy

Troy... thats all fine and good... but it's interesting to me that you favor particular verses (probably because you like Osteen, and thats ok)... but you ignore what Paul said:

[b]Romans 16:17[/b] [i]Now I beseech you, brethren, [b]mark them[/b] which cause divisions and offenses [u][b]contrary to the doctrine[/b][/u] which ye have learned; and [b]AVOID THEM.[/b][/i]

[b]2 John 1:10-11[/b] [i]If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, [b]receive him not[/b] into your house, [b]neither bid him Godspeed[/b]: For he that biddeth him Godspeed is [b]partaker of his evil deeds[/b].[/i]

You see, Paul and Jesus had waaaaay more to say about false teachers and prophets, and were very clear that we were to seperate from them... and have nothing to do within. And Pauls own personal example that he set for us was to warn others about these false teachers and prophets.

But some say we shouldnt judge them. However, scripture never once suggests that, in fact, scripture demands that we DO judge their teachings... and by seperating (avoiding) them we are to judge them as not of the brethren.

It's nice to be all sunshine and lollypops, but thats not the scriptural way to handle false teachers.

Krispy

You confuse unity of the spirit with an agreement of the mind, and to be honest, your reply sounded more like the definition of a papal bull than a cry for peace. [original post]

The Roman doctrines of the lordship and ascension of Mary, as the Queen of heaven, and mediator to all mankind have always , and will always be nothing less than Pagan in the eyes of true Christianity. That only is the beginning to a vast Parade of blasphemous doctrines that the Bible and the Spirit reject, including of course, the Lordship of the Pope, the bishop of Rome, as being the vicar of Christ on Earth.

Any number of ministers on this site could carry on and on, but what the good ? "Come out from among them, and be separate". This may sound cruel to the Catholic, but unless he repents to bears holy fruit, worshipping the true God of Abraham, through Jesus's sacrifice alone, he will be lost, just like me.

If you cannot accept that, you are still my friend, though sadly, you are NOT my brother. We would have to have the same Father for that. Tom

I think the point that Rev Enue had might just be wrapped up in his name. kinda a double intent; a pun....revenue is my name, and the appreciation of money is my game!...All done like the "KINGFISHER"

he "got" me too! lol

Clintstone:I appreciate you getting right down to the root of it all. If we all stayed where you see we could be, baptized and remaining baptized in the Holy ghost and fire, we would be spiritual giants now.

Jesus said to Martha, "There is really only one thing necessary, and Mary has chosen the better part." That is sitting at His feet, and adoring Him. How long will I wait to do the simple one thing? Keep your place Clint at his feet, and pray that myself and others might return there, to our first love. In that place, you don't notice the heat, and the complicated stuff is obviously not where it's at.

I have word from reliable sources that this was, indeed, Joel Olsteen. He's had that nickname since bible college.... ;-)

That's your best life now, clintstone.

I am encouraged to hear of your love for Jesus, and devotions, as I believe many here at SI are also.

We must never forget WHY we love Him, or are devoted to Him, though. It is because he willingly sacrificed himself, as the GODMAN, and atoned for our ever real sin, past and present.

In this vessel of purity, He finds a dwelling place; a temple. It is wonderful to experience communion with him in the fashions you describe, yet, do not suppose that you are to be glorified in this fashion, as an object of His affections, as an end for Himself. It's just a by product of His visit to you.

When we see this in a more clear light, then the focus of experience can be taken away from our own spirituality, and given unto a place of use by Him, and this always dwells with humility and hiddenness.

In communion, Jesus said, "REMEMBER ME." He offered His own Blood to the Father, for our "Success"; eternal Life vs. eternal Hell. This is something that Joel can never speak about, nor never will, in honest terms, for the Holy One does not dwell in him, nor can testify of Himself through Joel's lips. There is a big difference.

When He visits us, or honors us , it is always on His Terms, by mercy alone, and is never about our "BEST LIFE NOW.", but about His Life manifested through us. This is expressed through love, and often has little to do with our experience, as blest as it is.

Our fruit must be eaten by ANOTHER, not savoured within ourselves. This is our best life now.

Hearing the longing in you convicts me, Clintstone. It is about that...His response to our gratefulness that draws us to Him, by His power.

It is simple, and surely not about us, or our best life, but about Him, Jesus of Nazareth, and our desire to Love Him, and His desire to possess us, as a living temple. There is sacrifice in this, from both ends, and it is a costly sacrifice....and sorrow too...yet surely there is joy in the morning when we awake like Him!

"We are the head, and not the tail."

I believe that there always has been an alarm of sorts, that has sounded from the very beginning of these neo-pentecostal doctrines. I cannot say when they began...May be not long after Azusa street, when men began to imitate what they knew was real, yet did not possess within themselves; the authentic biblical gift of speaking in tongues.

[It is difficult to pinpoint, perhaps some scholars out there could help. I think of KENYON, and roots of new age thought, that drifted into man's end of authority, mixed with a Dominion theology, and his effect on Pentecost of the 1940's..]

At some point, the giftings, the power, the thought, the ideology became inherently humanistic. They got their wish. They (the early to mid century Pentecostals) became the head, moving ahead with a fistful of twisted scriptures that "proved" the adornment of the Bride was far ascendant to the Love of the groom.

[b]This, as I see it, is at the heart of the Jezebel Spirit itself, and is the subtle factor that has assisted the Church into her plunge into Harlotry.[/b]

I think that because of the subtlety of it, most in the stable church, fundamentalism and holiness...the cross bearing body, viewed this thought as more of an Aberration, than a heresy. "Those wild and crazy Pentecostals!"[many were right on, and holy].

The right to a healthy life filled with well being. It is my right as a believer!...The Right to Happiness and power...I am the Bride....The right to Prosperity..."I am the head, and not the tail!" These are the doctrines and faith , the mature fruit of these seeds sown way back then, and today it is entering into it's fourth generation.

"I tell you now, even now with weeping, that these are the enemies to the

[b]cross of Christ![/b]. "

We have underestimated the force of these doctrines, and their effect upon us, and our children. We did not see that this is an[b]Antichrist[/b] spirit, that hates everything to do with the death we must die, to resurrect the life that the Flesh must live. It is Satan's cry: "I will ascend to the Throne!" Life, Power, and Glory will be mine!"

The doctrine of controlling God, with our tongue, and "speaking" blessings to myself and others. Did you ever think that possibly the human heart may have something to do with being "blessed?" Most of the time, when this is done, a wicked, greedy, and deceitful heart may be the one speaking forth. This heart will stop at nothing to attain it's most selfish goal. [b]SATISFY ME![/b]. This is JEZEBEL. The bride Queen, who dominated and controlled her king to bow to her, and all of her lusts, and quests for complete power.

This is where the frenzy of convoluted healings and mixed and bizarre worship , that adores the loudness and sensual sway of worship in the dark rooms rests. This is where the jet set gospel rounds the World, banking their millions and millions, living as the Lords of Europe in luxury, while Somalia starves. This is where multitudes want God, on their very own terms, no matter the cost to their own holy faith...if it ever existed..

[b]you see, IT'S ALL ABOUT ME![/b] Your best Life Now!..This is Anti-Christ my dear brothers and sisters. We are dead center in the war..and do not be mistaken...your soul, and the souls of multitudes, are in the balance.[b]No Cross, No Glory.[/b]

The Blood of Jesus is our hope. We must bow before Him alone. He is the Life! His way is the best, for us all.