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The Lakeland Outpouring & Todd Bentley by Stormharvest

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The Lakeland Outpouring and Todd Bentley
By Robert I Holmes and Brian Medway

We are whole hearted supporters of revival, and certainly the renewed focus on the miracle working aspects of the gospel. We love the documented testimonies being shared by Bill Johnson and Kris Vallotton in California. Fervour for God, and a desire to see revival are good and godly things. A renewed interest in ministering with angels, prophetic ministry and sharing the testimony of Christ in these last days is admirable too (Revelation 19:10).

So how about Todd Bentley and the Lakeland Florida phenomena? More than a dozen Christian leaders have written to us in the past week, asking what our take on all this was, and whether we thought this was a genuine move of God. That we cannot tell you - for neither of us has been over to it. For reasons outlined below, we have no intention of going. What is being broadcast (also outlined in more detail below) in Lakeland leaves us rather disturbed.

A close ministry associate hosted Todd Bentley in Melbourne, Australia, and can testify to the positive influence he had during events a few years ago. Indeed heaven touched earth. Another ministry associate in Nigeria testified to the genuine miracles and healings which took place there under his ministry. A friend in Carolina testified to Todd's recent honour toward older prophetic men such as Paul Cain and Bob Jones. This is all good.

By no means do we wish to encourage heresy hunting, or criticism of other sincere brethren. What do we gain by spending time and energy criticizing others? What do we gain spending time and energy publishing material denouncing others, let us seek Christ. Our reason for writing is to sound a warning, to refocus our attention on things that are true and things which really matter.

The gospel we preach

It is from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks (Matthew 12:34) and it is what is inside a man that makes him unclean (Matthew 15:11). Our letters, emails, correspondence, prayer meetings and web sites portray to the world what is inside us. Our broadcasts, messages, podcasts and videos are an expression of our hearts. So if we want to know what a person's passions are ... simply listen to them.

The apostle Paul issued a stern warning to us about men or angels who preach another gospel or that demand attention (Galatians 1:7). Though angels are part of our worship celebration, of healing the sick and even preaching the gospel we must be wary of worshipping them, honouring them overly and being puffed up with visions (Collosians 2:18). What then is the gospel being presented through Todd's ministry and the Lakeland Revival? What are the first things being concentrated on in the preaching there?

Angels are central
Angels are the focus of this Florida outpouring (opening screen, banner). Todd, in his May 9th address speaks of the release of financial angels (where is that in the Bible?) He promotes an angel named Emma, said to be associated with the prophetic movement. (There are no female angels in Scripture). Jesus intimates that they are without gender (Matthew 22:30). Todd also claims to be walking with the angel who accompanied William Branham.

Third heaven focus
In an interview with Bob Jones, Todd Bentley and Patricia King, Todd focused in on the idea that, "Relationship with Jesus starts in the Third heaven" and that we "have experiences in the supernatural dimension, to release the glory"... (WSTK-ITV broadcast). We find it difficult to substantiate either of these statements in the gospels.

Appeals for money
The first thing presenting itself at the main web site is a request for money to keep the meetings going in the large auditorium. Evidently the finances are not sustaining the revival.

Focus on anointing
"One of the ten anointings that was going to manifest is the fire anointing!!!" (April 27th, 2008). There's the prophetic anointing, the healing anointing, the prayer anointing, and our favourite - the anointing to cancel debt (May 9th 2008) Where are these in the Bible?

Transferable impartation
the oft repeated phrase is "Come and Get Some" - some what? Stroll around the web site and it's all about Todd, and all about supernatural impartation. Great, but what about Jesus Christ? How about the things He cares about - the lost, the lame, the poor, the widow and the orphan?

Heavy self promotion
Since when did we have to promote, advertise, request for a revival? Since when did revivalists have to call their own meetings "outpourings" and "the greatest revival in history"? This is very, very sad.

Questions

1. Why are we calling this a revival?
The largest churches in the UK (such as Kensington International) draw more people every week than are turning up to Lakeland. The largest church in Nigeria (Faith Temple) draws three times that number! These churches win as many people to Christ each week as are being won at Lakeland. We do not call them revival because such a term implies that communities are being affected, towns are being changed, nations are being shaken. For a start, there are no credible evaluations of how many have been saved in Lakeland, Florida. Not from any of the main sources. We are now six or seven weeks in! There are estimates of how many people show up, and how many are falling down - but not of salvations?

2. Why have all the recent "revivals" which cause tourism take place in America?
Toronto, Smithton, Pensacola, Lakeland... thousands travelling to see it. Next week in a Northern Indian city there will be a baptism of 10,000 new converts, gathered in from hundreds of COC churches. In two weeks time there will be the confirmation of 8,000 new converts in a Pentecostal assembly in Uganda. It is estimated that 1,000 Iraqis are being converted a week now from Islam. Why don't we fly to those places - whose statistics are far more impressive than Lakeland. (for more information on revival tourism to those places watch this space!)

3. What has our Christianity become about?
Since when is the gospel centrally about a focus on angels, third heaven revelations, impartations and transferable blessings? Since when did Jesus die to make us rich, or to cancel debt we have accrued through the self focused spending we engage in here in the West? What happened to the simplicity of the gospel - repent, believe and be baptized?

Never the less, when asked about people who worked miracles in the name of Jesus, but who may be off centre, or walking a different path from Himself, Christ answered, "Do not forbid him, for no one who works a miracle in my name can soon afterward speak evil of me. For He who is not against us is for us." (Mark 9:39,40 NKJV).

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I have taken out the links in this post because it leads to much "unprofitable" and "false" content towards revival.

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Many may complain that too much time and energy is being devoted to "heresy hunting", and exposing the wolf on this forum.

I disagree. Who knows how deep and how far that this deception will travel? Toronto and Brownsville still have a wake of confusion following them, years afterwards, and boast of influencing millions.

There are new seekers every day that may inquire, or "check it out", every day;..many from the ranks of evangelical non pentecostal Christianity.

I am grateful to SERMONINDEX for providing a forum to address such controversial issues as a wolf, in sheep's clothing. Mormonism has engulfed multiple millions in almost every nation on Earth, and is leading them all into eternal fire.

Mormonism began with a fellow who had regular chats with an Angel, who gave him extra-Biblical knowledge. Joseph Smith was also very sensual, and enjoyed power and wealth at his followers expense.

His movement was not exposed soon enough, and much damage was, and is done. Paul continued his cries of warning to the day of his death.[ see Titus and Timothy..] Until they are silent, our obligation is to warn and exhort unto Godliness all who have an Ear, as we fear and obey the Lord unto holiness.

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Talkn2u

That is well said, BrotherTom.

Rather than "heresy hunting" I see it as fighting for and upholding Truth.

The deception is not just from what I have heard, it has hit home, so to speak. There are people that I know and love who are caught up and full of confusion over Todd Bentley and Bob Jones.
Miraculous signs and wonders, real as they may be, are not always the indicator of God moving. Yet, many are fascinated and deceived into believing wrongly because they see the miracles.

Revelations 19:20 is a scripture that most of us are aware of:
And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image....

I am on here posting because I am concerned. Loved ones and dear friends of mine are crying out for Truth, at this very moment.
This is a serious issue amongst the world of Christiandom.
We would be wrong to sit idly by and not take a stand for what we have been holding to, and knowing to be True.

Bonnie


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I awoke with an impression about this current deception with Todd Bentley, Florida, and around the world.


I felt that if the body of Christ would pray that this would shrivel up; dry up, and disappear, that the Lord would honor them.


Remember the historical account of the fig tree? Jesus wanted some fruit.[ read Micah chapter 7.] There was no fruit, though there should of been. Jesus then cursed the tree, and as they passed by later, it had withered and died.

I understand that this has many applications, from our own lives, to the individual churches, to the pharisees and cold, religious Israel; yet I was impressed also , that if we would ask the Lord, He would bring a withering storm and dry up this wolf fest. Remember Jonah, and the worm, and the destruction of this shading plant that comforted him.


We pray in Love for the innocent and the young, that they would not be devoured. Remember Revelation and the woman giving birth; a dragon was awaiting there to devour her infant . The devil eats babies. Maybe if we pray, and ask the Lord for mercy, he will hear, and heal our land.

J
Jimbabwean

If you want some evidence to check for yourself, read Todd's message on repentance. It is the only one I could find amongst hundreds of others.

Todd on repentance:
http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Act=read&status=teaching&Id=244&pid=954&bid=955

Todd's other teachings:
http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Id=955

I'll leave you to decide for yourself. I am confident you'll be able to discern what Todd is all about.

Jesus is Lord!

C
crsschk

Hello Jimbabwean,

Not sure what you meant by this and won't further a guess. There is a discernment and it is in many a posting of late, maybe we need to expand the roundup of one particular posting made here, (a collection of links to them) to make this easier. I am in full agreement with brothertom and others, this is not about to go away quietly I am afraid and there is an obligation to address it head on.

From the article;

[i]"When we think about repentance we often think about John the Baptist— “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand” (Matt. 3:2). We think about fire and brimstone, and about somebody preaching hard against sin. I believe in that message, don’t get me wrong! We need to have a message of holiness, separation, and consecration. There’s a place, and there’s a price, for that message.[/i]"

There is a price indeed and we will pay for it in more ways than we know. That place however is not one that is set aside to further yet another notion as is being done here.

[i]But as we examine repentance here, I’m talking about it in perhaps a different way than some people usually think—in the context of mercy and healing.[/i]

That is TB's trouble en masse, practically everything is spoken of in a 'different' way and to tie this to healing and mercy is wrought with problems. Why? Because he manages to dodge the central aspect for the one he is apt to promote.

[i] In this context is a revelation that repentance brings mercy, and mercy brings healing. I call this: the beauty of repentance. In fact, that revelation illustrates why I love to repent and get right with God! And so I want to help you get into that place [of repentance] where you pull the rip cord and receive both mercy and healing—which is the blessing of God. Hallelujah![/i]

There is a very astute piece of wisdom that has been put forth here from one of our own that runs along the lines of "[i]When your repentance is more notorious then your sin ...[/i]" then you have something. It is the repentance that David expressed well beyond his sin with Bathsheba in Psalm 51, of that order and stature. Unfortunately, as this shows, the subject matter is not repentance at all, but a quick putting it away after but the most surface level mentions of what it all entails.

And if he loves it so much as he says, then there is ample opportunity and ammunition for him to repent over. He can start with either the actual or exaggerated lying of his kicking an elderly lady in the face with his biker boot. Past that there is nothing else to give any credence whatsoever to anything he says.

We have a charge to uphold saints;

[i]Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;[/i] 2Co 10:5

I do very much like the idea of praying for a decided end to all of this and have been praying in like manner that the Lord Himself would put a halt to it, for His own Name sake. This is the worst representation and most dishonoring thing to come down the pike ... at least since the last one in the same series. It is a reproach and a blight and incredibly grievous, there is not enough that can be said nor scripture appealed to, but certainly [i]the fear of the Lord[/i] is chiefly one that is not amongst them.

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The author of that article lost me when he said:

[i]"A friend in Carolina testified to Todd's recent honour toward older prophetic men such as Paul Cain and Bob Jones. This is all good."[/i]

When someone utters that nonsense I can do nothing but shut them off. It discredits the rest of what they have to say, in my opinion.

However, it is interesting that a follower of these two "older prophetic men" can see that there are problems with Todd Bentley... yet some even on this forum can't.

Rather than "heresy hunting" I see it as fighting for and upholding Truth.

Bonnie, well said! Bravo, sis!

Krispy

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crsschk

When someone utters that nonsense I can do nothing but shut them off. It discredits the rest of what they have to say, in my opinion.

Had the same reaction, it is not "all good" whatsoever, but just it's opposite. Have been giving this all much thought and much pain ... There are roots in this whole business that need to be exposed and uprooted, torn out. I am thinking collectively of the whole matter of this construct; The 'prophets' and man of the hour as Katz would have put it, the notions and runaway ... carnality of inward thought and action. The frivolity and disrespect ... the lack of just pure shame. Hope somehow I can articulate this, why it crushes and grieves so deeply ...

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Krispy wrote:

When someone utters that nonsense I can do nothing but shut them off. It discredits the rest of what they have to say, in my opinion.

crsschk wrote:
Had the same reaction, it is not "all good" whatsoever, but just it's opposite. Have been giving this all much thought and much pain ... There are roots in this whole business that need to be exposed and uprooted, torn out. I am thinking collectively of the whole matter of this construct; The 'prophets' and man of the hour as Katz would have put it, the notions and runaway ... carnality of inward thought and action. The frivolity and disrespect ... the lack of just pure shame. Hope somehow I can articulate this, why it crushes and grieves so deeply ...

Brothertom writes:
Just my gut reaction, but I feel there has been a shift of sorts, in the tide. Something in the gears in Lakeland aren't up to the excitement level as they were say, a month ago. Maybe burnt out and some boredom have had their effects. It would be like travelling with the Rolling Stones on a four month tour. After all, it is but a performance.


The audience is primed before, and after the act, to keep "the energy level high", with rhythmic, and sometimes pounding electric rock music. People are rapturous, hips swaying, hands high, chanting about the blessings of the church to the beat.

It has got to take a toll on the mind, even with a demonic anointing. People look tired. They can't keep it up.

And the Bentley act....it is so bizarre...unearthly. A young black girl was describing a demonic encounter on stage, describing a weird creature, and it was not 30 seconds that Bentley had turned it around into another resurrection from the dead. The crowd was delirious. The demon had just attacked her..and scared her. Nothing physical happened; this was the perception of a 12 year old girl caught up in the orb of an unclean spirit for a few seconds, at another location! Yip, another of the 27 resurrections!

Then, it is a "come on people! Resurrection from the DEAD!" If bizarre is not the word, what is? P.T. Barnum had nothing on the "full mount Karate Kid!" :-P


Anyway, all of this takes a lot of energy. The bottom line, though, is that people have been praying across our nation, and the world, for this carnival to end, and to be exposed for what it is, as they have been praying for true, Apostolic Revival to strike our land.

Jesus will send us revival."So ought men to pray, and not to feint." Help Jesus.


One more thought. This has been spoken before. There will be a lot of open doors, when the deflation factor hits those that were previously pumped. Let us prepare to open the doors of our heart to speak tenderly to the many who will feel confused and dissapointed that God let them down. Repentence from the death of the deception; faith toward a loving and most merciful God. Jesus is Lord, and I am so grateful He is.

J
JoanM

I left off reading about and looking at what’s-his-name for the reasons I give below under prayer. Last night my love for SI brothers and sisters moved me to check in on how all are doing. This morning Natan4Jesus (another thread) prompted this post.

[u]Crsschk wrote[/u]: [i]Had the same reaction, it is not "all good" whatsoever, but just it's opposite. Have been giving this all much thought and much pain ... There are roots in this whole business that need to be exposed and uprooted, torn out. I am thinking collectively of the whole matter of this construct; The 'prophets' and man of the hour as Katz would have put it, the notions and runaway ... carnality of inward thought and action. The frivolity and disrespect ... the lack of just pure shame. Hope somehow I can articulate this, why it crushes and grieves so deeply[/i].....The Spirit of God, the very heart of Him is so grieved just as His Spirit and heart in you is deeply grieved. And the weight of sin, the press of the onslaught of the wicked one is like a crushing wall of concrete, the burden of prayer and your heart of Christ has gotten under it. And the grieving of God and the onslaught is not limited to Lakeland.

[u]An aside[/u]? I saw a picture on the front cover of a book titled Repent. It was a drawing of the whole earth, with a noxious weed, the size of a continent, ripped out of it by a hand. Just that picture and the title. That about catches it for me (dealing with the root Crsschk spoke of, [i]“up rooted, torn out”[/i]). Though I pray for revival there are times I think I am praying for His return.

[u]Brothertom[/u]: The thievery of it, the bold-faced thievery of it, stirs Brothertom to want to overturn a thousand tables of moneychangers and sellers of doves to the poor and little ones. Sellers of doves!!!

[u]Ginnyrose[/u] (recent on a thread with what's-his-name as the title) wrote: [i]pray fervently for false teachers? Do the scriptures record any such conversions in all its history? Does church history?[/i]... The only change I ever heard of was what Hank Hanagraph saw after more than 7 years of persistently presenting (hammering?) the Word of God to any and all of the World Wide Church of God (correct the name if I have that wrong). Some leaders and many followers separated and publicly testified. I am sure Hank prayed but that was not his public focus. So to your question, I would have to say not in the observable world.

[u]On prayer[/u]: I did pray -- what most would mean by pray. Particularly for the little ones. But the nature and focus of my prayer has changed over this time. (The last I saw was a young man on the stage from Scotland naively asking for and getting some to “take back to Scotland.” That did it. Not Scotland! (No! Not by a long shot! No sir-ee!) For one thing, now my back is to them and I pray not so much that they would dry up. More like how David prayed sometimes. Probably only KrispyKrittr would not think this prayer too rough: A public, Glory to God, end to this, one way (repentance/salvation) or the other. Prayer regarding Lakeland is rare and short now. I have not sensed our Father's displeasure but I am open to correction. My focus is for God to manifest His Holiness in Revival. Without it, (among 1000 other things), who will care for all the injured. Pray for Revival is over-riding and much.

Last night I was thinking that we could use some organization or one place to point someone to who "pops in." A gentle nudge that keeps a sharp focus. Sounds very difficult to me.

G
ginnyrose

There will be a lot of open doors, when the deflation factor hits those that were previously pumped.

Tom, I hope you are right...reckon I am a tad bit negative about this knowing full well how this type of thing can sour people on 'religion'. On the other hand, if God's hand is on that person, it will happen. One thing it is doing for sure is it is exposing who the sheep are and the who the goats are.

Do you all know anything about the nature of sheep and goats? The animals, I mean. Dad used to raise sheep when I was a young girl and I loved them. They were easily tamed and would follow you just like "Mary who had a little lamb." It was fun watching the lambs frolicking, playing. But generally, adult sheep were a tad bit boring in contrast to goats.

Goats will eat anything. If someone has some brush who wants it cleaned out, put some goats in there and they will do it. They are adventuresome, will get themselves into predicaments and then cry "BAAAAA"! and will keep crying until you get them out. And they will climb up on things they have no business doing....just thinking about our goat who would climb up on to my husbands pick-up hood, or climb the stairway in the shop and could not get down...The similarities to people is striking, and no wonder Jesus calls his people sheep and the others goats...and as the creator of sheep and goats the analogy fits.

In the meantime one must be ever on the alert to assist those who have become delusioned because of the deception they had fallen under. Wise words, Tom.

ginnyrose

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boG

Jimbabwean: I'll leave you to decide for yourself. I am confident you'll be able to discern what Todd is all about.

Brief excerpts from one of TB's "other teachings".


[b]SOZO[/b] - Salvation, Deliverance, and Healing
Date: 2001-12-17
Author: Todd Bentley


"But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed ... [u]This passage of Scripture talks about healing more than it does forgiveness of sin[/u]."


"We must see Him as the victorious Christ who rose up on the third day with resurrection power, [u]sin, sickness, disease, and death[/u]."

(When I read this statement I am reminded of John Lennon's dubious "If it gets to destruction you can count me out -- in".)


"I believe in the doctor. I believe God wants to heal all. And if God wants to use a doctor, God can do that. He gave them the gift. He gave them medicine and science. [u]Some of it is from the pits of hell, but God has blessed it[/u]."


"Healing and freedom from sickness and disease [u]is the same as forgiveness of sins[/u]."

Yes, I would say we can discern this for ourselves. When I unfortunately happen to read stuff like this by TB or anything that comes from those who are associated in that ministry, I am reminded of this:


Acts 16
16. And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
17. The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
18. And this did she many days.


How distrubing to hear the adversary declaring the salvation of God in Christ Jesus with his own words.

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sermonindex

That is the first Christ-like refutation of the "Lakeland Outpouring" that I have read.

It is clear, concise, and most importantly, buttressed by Scripture.

It is not shrill, hard or hysterical. God bless brothers Holmes and Medway for their crystal clear discernment, and for you Lisa for sharing this.

natan

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Hopefully now that this knucklehead's "revival" is dying down we will hear less and less about it. However, we should study this from a hindsight perspective and be aware that more and more bizarre things are going to be embraced by many Christian so-called.

Krispy

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spoonen

Along these lines, Brother Zac just wrote an article on [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=24975&forum=34&1]Deception and Counterfeit Revival[/url] (posted in the "Articles" forum) -- a must read!

I was especially challenged by his exposition on Matthew 7:13-27 in this context -- the first time I've ever heard it put that way.

J
JoanM

These leaders are blind to their double-mindedness. Does anyone in this leadership group know what Biblical repentance is? Being intimidated is as much sin as intimidating others. Intimidated deluded leadership, asleep and deluded congregations. How can this be? [u][b]Jude says how[/u][/b] and what believers are to do. They do not seem to be able to discern what their own words say.


Quoting the [url=http://www.olivetreeviews.org/]Reference:Weekly up-dates from Olive Tree Views [/url]


[b]The Needed Closure on Todd Bentley[/b] - Pastor Chris Elrod, Sr. Pastor, Compass Point Church, Lakeland, Florida

As I was on my way home from South Carolina last Thursday night, I got "the call." My friend and fellow Lakeland pastor let me know that the news about Todd Bentley -- the news that had circulated around Lakeland for weeks -- was finally about to break. For months it had been rumor with very little hard facts to back it up. Local church leaders had been hearing things about Todd and Ignited Church that caused us to question even more the validity of the "revival."

Then the truth began to come out bit by bit, first to Lakeland and then to the world, and now Todd's wife was in Canada getting help while he was "floating around" the United States trying to get his head together. Yes, Todd was legally separating from his wife. Yes, there was another woman involved. Yes, this was not the first time Todd had been involved with another woman.

Yes, Todd and Ignited Church had failed to address concerns -- many being voiced by their own denomination and people who support such outpourings -- about the heresy being preached and displayed at the "revival." Yes, there was not one single medical document to prove that any healing had actually taken place.

As the fallout continues and more facts are beginning to emerge about everyone involved with this mess, I have begun to ask myself some pretty hard questions. Did I handle this correctly?

When the first news began to break around here about Todd, healings, and the revival, I went to see it for myself. In all, I attended four separate "revival" meetings over a two-month period. I also watched countless hours of the events on the Internet. I witnessed Todd hollering "BAM" a lot. I witnessed "verification teams" in the parking lot carefully choosing people deemed candidates for "healing" while turning many others down. I watched ushers push ill children away from the stage area because they had not been preapproved for "healing."

I heard stories about pixie-dust-spreading angels and conversations with the Apostles in some abstract heavenly cabin. I saw leg drops, high kicks, head punches, and every other Wrestlemania cliche under the sun. I heard anonymous crazy stories about people being healed and others being raised from the dead. I heard and saw many strange things -- but nothing that even remotely kept with sound doctrine. Every biblical-discerning bone in my body showed me that there was nothing going on at the "revival" that was in keeping with God's Word.

I began to speak out against the revival, Todd, and Ignited Church, to our people. Mainly it was through our Journey Groups, one-on-one conversations, phone calls, and e-mails. However, I was advised by several other pastors not to speak out against it publicly because "I might be speaking against something that God is actually doing" (I wasn't questioning God -- I was questioning Todd). I never addressed it from the pulpit because our podcast is heard by hundreds of people all over the world. I never blogged about it because I get a 1,000+ hits on a normal day.

I dodged the questions about the revival in recent radio interviews I did in other parts of the United States. Finally, I refused to answer the hundreds of e-mails I got about the "revival" from other folks all over the world. In essence, I protected my flock from the three-ring circus and hoopla but did nothing to protect the Body of Christ as a whole.

Hindsight they say is 20/20. It now turns out that all of the rumors were true. It now turns out that the scriptural discernment was correct. It now turns out that this was the same craziness without accountability that the leadership of the sponsoring church is known for. The three-ring circus has been packed up, the tents have been taken down, and the moral failure has been announced. Everyone involved is pushing back, and thousands of hurting people are left questioning God and their salvation.

The question that I now have to ask myself and the question that will haunt me for quite a while is this. Did I sit on the sidelines while the playing field burned? Should have I blogged about it and spoken out about it publicly -- done more to get the word out to the rest of the world that this whole thing was about Todd and not God? I took care of my own house -- but should I have done more to take care of the entire neighborhood?

Charismatic leader Dutch Sheets also humbled himself stating, "My assignment from the Lord is to repent on behalf of the leadership of the Charismatic Body of Christ. We have failed the Lord and His people in many ways. We must repent if we are to be trusted in the future. We, the leaders of the Charismatic community, have operated in an extremely low level of discernment. Frankly, we often don't even try to discern. We assume a person's credibility based on gifts, charisma, whether they can prophesy, or work a miracle."

Sigh. [b]IS THERE NO FEAR OF GOD[/b]? For these Pastors I can pray.

M
Miccah

Taken from Dutch Sheets apology letter (link provided below)

[url=http://www.dutchsheets.org/images/images_A2521/A_Statement_and_Appeal_Regarding_Lakeland.pdf]Dutch Sheets Apology[/url]

"I don’t believe anyone is expecting perfection from us—I know I’m not. We’re far too human for that. But we are expected to have enough humility to look the world and those who follow us in the eye when we miss it and say, “we were wrong and we are sorry.” Our careless accountability has caused the body of Christ to be spiritually raped and abused. It has produced disillusionment and brought immeasurable reproach to our God and cynicism to His message. Concerning Lakeland, what was called the “greatest revival since Azusa Street” has become possibly one of the greatest reproaches. We, the leaders of the charismatic church, are responsible.

For not accepting and acknowledging our responsibility, for caring more about our own reputation than Christ’s, I repent to God and ask forgiveness of the body of Christ."

C
Compton

(Edit: I am convicted to admit that I am unable to understand fully what is going on here...and that avoidance rather then criticism is more healthy.)

May I remember what it is to repent and not play at it.

MC

C
Compton

Brethren,

(edit; let me just avoid this event.)

And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure. 1 John 3

Blessings,

MC

A
AbideinHim

A STATEMENT and APPEAL REGARDING LAKELAND
-Dutch Sheets. (Aug 21, 2008).

It has now been a couple of weeks since I heard about Todd Bentley's plans for separation and divorce. Like everyone, I have had a variety of emotions including anger, sadness, and grief. Every time I see this scenario repeated, I grieve: for the husband and wife involved; for the family that will be scarred in so many ways; because of the incredible reproach it brings to Christ; and the distortion it gives concerning God's heart and ways. I am praying for Todd and his family.

I was asked numerous times to write my position on Lakeland while it was happening, but always felt checked by the Lord—the waters were too muddy and emotions too high. I now feel strongly that the Lord wants me to do so. It will be arguably one of the greatest risks of my ministry to date, but one I feel must be taken. Fathers, when given the voice to do so, bear the responsibility of giving correction and wisdom. I hope mine qualifies for the latter. I assure you I have spent many hours praying and thinking through the situation. The risks are broad: with some of my dearest friends and co-laborers, I risk harming those relationships; with many in the charismatic body of Christ, I risk appearing to be an arrogant, "self-appointed" spokesperson for them; to the "I told you so" crowd, I risk the accusation of "spinning" the situation. (As far as the heresy hunters and revival police—not those who raised legitimate questions about Lakeland, but the attack dogs who make their living and build their ministries criticizing everyone else—I lost respect for them long ago and couldn't care less what they think.)

My purpose and sincere prayer in writing this statement, however, is three-fold: to see healing begin for the body of Christ; to initiate a process that can remove the reproach brought to Christ and the Church; and to do these things while preserving and honoring my current relationships. I pray that these desires, along with my heart, come through loudly. And I hope I'm writing this with true humility— who among us clearly sees all hidden in our own hearts? Let me also preface this statement by saying that what needs to be said cannot be done quickly or carelessly. I do not want my heart to be missed and am not willing to run that risk for the sake of brevity,
so please bear with the length. (Incidentally, I think it will be obvious no one involved in the Lakeland situation has asked me to write this; and for the sake of integrity on my part, none have been consulted concerning what I'm stating.)

Mistakes at Lakeland

Did leaders handling the Lakeland situation make mistakes? Yes— huge mistakes. Beyond the obvious fruit of salvations and healings, can good come from Lakeland, as some have suggested, even with the recent revelations concerning Todd Bentley? Yes, but only if there is complete honesty and transparency, the removal of all attempts at self-preservation, and absolute humility from all sides.

Did I endorse the Lakeland meetings? No, I did not, nor did I condemn them. I acknowledged that healings were occurring and some were being saved, which I still believe and rejoice over. I realized and stated that the thousands of people attending were hungry and sincere, as were those involved in leading the 2 meetings. The worship was regularly good. But looking past some of the immediate and positive results, I, like many, also looked
ahead to the possible fruit from questionable doctrine and experiences, exaggeration and hype, youthful pride, character issues and the frightening potential of a 32 year "young" man leading a movement that could shape the future of the Church.

These things were frightening, very frightening, to others and me. When something has the potential of setting precedent, birthing a movement and being reproduced as a prototype, we are no longer simply endorsing good brothers, good intentions and miracles. Doctrine and foundations will be built on these events. Teachings and paradigms for future ministries will be formed—in short, the next generation of the church and the move of God in the earth could be greatly impacted. This is why I stopped short of endorsing everything at Lakeland. Just as importantly, I could not ignore the "check", the uneasiness, the sickening feeling deep in my spirit telling me something else was wrong—terribly wrong—in this situation. Like other leaders I tried to push past my uneasiness with the showmanship, the "bams," the head butts and kneeing, along with certain experiences and doctrines, all in order to embrace the good. Like many of my friends I tried to be—and believe I was—gracious, accepting, ready to think "out of the box", etc. But try as I may, the uneasiness in my spirit just wouldn't leave.

Did I voice my concerns to the appropriate people? Yes, including stating my concerns for Todd's marriage to the Lakeland Outpouring Apostolic Team. Did they listen? Some did, some didn't. But I want to state emphatically, this is not an "I told you so" statement. In fact, much of what I want to address goes back several years into our charismatic Christian history. And I assure you that concerning our present weaknesses in the charismatic church, there is plenty of blame to go around. Personally, I've been right at times with my discernment and decisions, wrong at others. It would be worse than hypocritical for me to point the finger of accusation—I have no stones of judgment to throw. Nonetheless, mistakes were made and must be acknowledged and learned from in order for us to heal, grow and move forward.

Some of my closest friends endorsed and participated in the Lakeland meetings. For them I have both criticism—all of us lose credibility at this point if we're not completely honest—and affirmation. Should they have been more discerning and have listened to the warnings they received? Obviously. Should those who "aligned" Todd with spiritual fathers (which was a good thing and positioned him to receive help if he chooses to accept it) have
realized to do so publicly was a mistake and could be interpreted by those watching in no other way than as a complete endorsement? Yes, they should have, especially when the event became a commissioning ceremony, complete with decrees and prophecies of going to higher levels, predictions of Todd's increasing world-wide influence and leading a world-wide revival, emphatic and prolific endorsements of his character, etc.
How could those watching believe the evening was anything but an aligning, endorsing and commissioning ceremony? It was. It really doesn't matter who laid their hands on Todd—all share responsibility. This was unwise at best, naïve at least and at its worst, foolish. And should the leaders involved have realized that those of us connected to them relationally, ministerially, and as movements—some even in alignment with them apostolically and
as sons and daughters—would feel minimalized, if not betrayed, by the fact that they were in essence taking us onto the stage with them? Yes. These feelings were inevitable, especially when we had such uneasiness and asked them not to. Should there be an acknowledgment of these mistakes to the body of Christ for the sake of accountability and in order to rebuild trust? I believe so, and remain hopeful this will happen.

With such strong statements of disagreement, what is the affirmation toward my friends who led, participated in or endorsed this ceremony (and the meetings in general)? Simply stated, I know their hearts. It is not a contradiction of my criticisms toward some of their actions to, at the same time, defend and endorse their hearts and character. It is completely appropriate — when true—to defend a person's heart and integrity while
disagreeing with their actions.

I think the blunder of that night was huge and very damaging to the body of Christ, but I also realize that in their hearts, those involved honestly felt they were doing the right things. Again, while not defending the action taken, I would defend the character and integrity of Peter and Doris Wagner as vigorously as anyone I know, and do so with absolute confidence. There are no two people, and I mean that literally, who embody the qualities of humility, integrity, holiness (no compromise!), sacrifice, unselfish kingdom-thinking, the tireless giving of themselves to Christ's cause and the body of Christ—and do I need to add risk-taking?— as much as Peter and Doris Wagner. It remains my great honor to be associated with them and call them a spiritual father and mother. And again, while not minimizing or "sweeping under the rug" any wrong decisions, I remain steadfast in my belief that
similar affirmations could be made of others involved—either directly or indirectly—in the ceremony. And some of them still see their endorsing of Lakeland as an endorsement of revival generally, not of Todd personally.

The Bigger Picture

It may come as a surprise, however, that my real purpose in writing this is not to only state the above, as important as I believe saying it is. My primary purpose, and I believe my assignment from the Lord, is to identificationally repent on behalf of the leadership of the charismatic body of Christ (see Nehemiah 1:4-7; Daniel 9:1-19). In doing so, I do not have a pompous, "no one else will, so I'll do it" attitude, nor am I arrogant enough to think I have become the spokesperson for the charismatic church. But in the same way that I can identify with the racism of white predecessors and repent to blacks, Native Americans and other races, I can
represent the leadership of the charismatic body of Christ and identificationally repent for our sins and weaknesses. I encourage leaders who find my statements true and appropriate to join me.

Beyond the simple fact of it being appropriate, I firmly believe it is the only way to begin the process of rebuilding trust with those asked to follow us and to remove the cynicism of the world we ask to listen to us. As you know, regaining credibility is much more difficult than attaining credibility. Concerning what I'm about to say, I don't believe I have a critical spirit, nor do I want to diminish the sacrifices, faithfulness, and hard work done by so many in ministry. The fact remains, however, that we have failed the Lord and His people in many ways—not just with Lakeland but in countless other situations—and must repent if we are to be trusted in the future. And as you also know, no repentance is effective if watered down and couched in excuses, therefore, I intend to be brutally honest:

1) We, the leaders of the charismatic community, have operated in an extremely low level of discernment. Frankly, we often don't even try to discern. We assume a person's credibility based on gifts, charisma, the size of their ministry or church, whether they can prophesy or work a miracle, etc. (Miracles and signs are intended to validate God and His message, not the messenger; sometimes they validate the assignment of an individual, but never the person's character, lifestyle or spiritual maturity.) We leaders in the Church have become no different than the world around us in our standards for measuring success and greatness. This has contributed to the body of Christ giving millions of dollars to undeserving individuals; it has allowed people living in sin to become influential leaders—even to lead movements, allowing them influence all the way to the White House. Through our lack
of discernment we built their stages and gave them their platforms.
We have been gullible beyond words—gullible leaders producing gullible sheep. When a spiritual leader we're connected with violates trust, is exposed for immorality or falls below other accepted standards of behavior, it does not exonerate us simply to say we don't condone such behavior. Those we lead trust us to let them know whom to trust. We have failed them miserably in this regard. For this lack of discernment, and for employing and
passing on inappropriate standards of judgment, I repent to the Lord and ask forgiveness of the body of Christ.

2) We, the leaders of the charismatic church, spin our involvement and fail to acknowledge our responsibility when other leaders fall— all of which stems from our self-preservation and pride. Enough of the spin—we're no different than Washington, DC. Every time another embarrassing and disgraceful situation is exposed, the dancing begins. It seems that no one bears any real responsibility except the man or woman who actually commits sin. Incredibly, we even blame "revival" itself—the pressures, attacks, weariness, the "revival is messy" argument, etc., saying it is responsible for the failures. This is disgusting. Those of us on boards of fallen leaders, those who helped give them a voice, put them on TV, published and endorsed their books (yes, I have), etc., are not exonerated simply by saying we don't condone the wrong behavior or that we didn't know. We're supposed to know. I don't believe anyone is expecting perfection from us—I know I'm not. We're far too human for that. But we are expected to have enough humility to look the world and those who follow us in the eye when we miss it and say, "we were wrong and we are sorry." Our careless accountability has caused the body of Christ to be spiritually raped and abused. It has produced disillusionment and brought immeasurable reproach to our God and cynicism to His message. Concerning Lakeland, what was called the "greatest revival since Azusa Street" has become possibly one of the greatest reproaches. We, the leaders of the charismatic church, are responsible. For not accepting and acknowledging our responsibility, for caring more about our own reputation than Christ's, I repent to God and ask forgiveness of the body of Christ.

3) Our procedures and standards of accountability are incredibly inadequate. We have provided camaraderie, not biblical accountability. For those on Todd Bentley's board who had previous knowledge of his marriage problems and said nothing, it was more than a mistake—it was reckless, foolish, and irresponsible. For those on the stage the night of his aligning and commissioning who knew and said nothing—ditto. For those there
who didn't know, my question is, "why didn't you?" You were trusted to know. That is one of the purposes of public commissioning and the purpose behind the concept of endorsement. I'm not trying to point the finger; I'm endeavoring to get us to be honest about our failures—we have serious credibility issues. Have I ever laid hands on, commissioned or endorsed anyone without adequately checking them out? Yes, but you better believe I'll be more careful next time! And we must not single out Lakeland. We're all guilty. What about the leader in my city who ran with some of the leading spiritual fathers in our nation— sincere and good men, I might add, and not all "charismatic" leaders—who sang his praises and helped build his stage—all while he was doing drugs and having sex with other men? But we shouldn't blame only the high profile cases—what about those of us who unknowingly have had adulterers on our staffs or appointed elders that turned out to have compromise in their life? Sounding familiar yet? This is so epidemic that every member of the body of Christ stands guilty—what pastor or leader did you follow that turned out to have sin issues? What ministry did you support that was unworthy? There is plenty of blame to go around. The big question becomes not "who do we blame" but "how do we fix this mess?" Leaders can live in sin—adultery, homosexuality, financial wrongdoing, drugs, etc.—for years without it being realized. They can offer completely unacceptable lifestyles for the body of Christ to follow and still keep their TV programs and lavish lifestyles. In the name of grace, compassion and forgiveness we have lowered the standard so much that often there isn't one. We have bought into the lie that true discipline is "shooting our wounded." We have made a mockery of biblical restoration, making "ministry"—not healthy individuals, marriages and families—its ultimate goal. The fact is, integrity matters. No, we don't need legalistic, pharisaical standards, but we must have standards. For this lack of biblical accountability, I repent to God and I ask forgiveness of the body of Christ.

4) We, the leaders of the charismatic church, have built on hype, sensation, innovation, programs, personality and charisma. This has produced: shallowness; false movements; novice leaders— gifted but immature and untested; a deficient understanding of God's word; the building of man-centered rather than kingdom- centered churches and ministries; competition rather than cooperation; humanistic, self-centered Christians who don't
understand sacrifice and commitment; Christians without discernment; superstar leaders; a perverted and powerless gospel; prayerless and anemic Christians; a replacement of the fear of the Lord with the fear of man; and a young generation that is cynical of it all. We are responsible, not the devil; he takes what we give him. For this compromise in the way we build, for giving the Church watered down wine, commercial Christianity, a flashy but
weak Church and hype disguised as anointing, I repent to God and ask forgiveness of the body of Christ. Galatians 6:1-5 is an appropriate reference with which to end this statement: "Brethren, even if a man caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and thus fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have reason for boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another. For each one shall bear his own load." NAS

My passionate prayer is that God honors this repentance — I believe He led me to do it and therefore, will—and uses it to begin a process of cleansing and healing for all of us. In order for the coming great awakening to bear maximum fruit we must have both, as well as a course correction that sets us on a path of wisdom leading to life. There is no doubt that past moves of God have been aborted, ended prematurely and contained error or heresy that have wounded, if not destroyed, many. The healing revival of the 40's and 50's, the charismatic movement, discipleship movement and Jesus movement are all examples. My heart is to help shape a movement, the fruit of which will last for decades — better yet, forever. And I have great expectations for us—I am not a cynic.

My passionate prayer is also that Todd Bentley's marriage survives and thrives…that he turns his heart fully toward Christ and toward those with whom he is aligned, and allows them, as God leads, to put him on a path of complete restoration. I thank God for those who were touched by the Holy Spirit at Lakeland and while watching it on God TV and the web. May we all move forward into all God has planned for us in this awesome season of endless possibility.

With great hope—Dutch Sheets.

S
sermonindex

Even tho I disagree with Dutch Sheets on a lot of doctrinal issues... I have always had a certain amount of respect for him as a man and as a brother. He has a good head on his shoulders.

Krispy

C
crsschk

We have provided camaraderie, not biblical accountability.

Have been wrestling with something of a response to all this for quite some time ... Recognizing my penchant for rambling and not being articulate has scrapped a handful of expressions.

Got to hand it to Dutch Sheets here for admitting what needs to be admitted. Lee Grady (of Charisma Magazine) I thought got close in his response to the whole situation but ... What I did find was a great deal of 'calling the kettle black' in far too much of it.

Culpability. Credibility. Responsibility. What has not been done up until perhaps maybe this start is a wholesale look and reassessment of what allowed this to get to the point that it has. The denouncements and corrections are fine but what about all those things, all these 'leaders' and their teaching that has been produced by the likes of Charisma over the course of I believe 30 some odd years now? It is denouncement on the one hand and looking the other way simultaneously.

What are the building blocks of what Grady termed as "our" "movement"?

One of them and the most glaring of all to my observation is just flatly, 'prophecy'. "The Lord has said _______". "The Lord is doing _____" It's a redundant rant but even Dutch Sheets is fond of this sort of telling forth even as recently as August 12th, 2008;

[i]Dutch Sheets, pastor of Springs Harvest Fellowship in Colorado Springs, Colorado, claims the American people have been living in a state of deception, partly as a result of the war in Iraq. He strongly believes that in the fall God will release His people from their stupor.[/i]

"The level of deception and confusion I have seen over America the last two years, both in the church and out, has been unlike anything I have ever witnessed. The level of it, especially in the body of Christ, has truly been shocking to me.

The list of areas in which it has manifested is broad: presidential candidate endorsements and prophecies; doctrinal error; relational breakups; disagreements over what is true and false revival; and so on. Add to this list a general weariness, complacency (one well-known leader told me he doesn’t think it matters anymore who is elected president—so much for shifting the Supreme Court!), disillusionment, disorientation and so on, and it all equals incredible deception and confusion.

I believe [the deception] is linked to our war in Iraq, which is ancient Babylon. Babylon, of course, means “confusion.” It was not difficult for us to defeat Iraq’s physical army, but the principality—the spirit of Babylon—has been another story altogether.

Just a couple of weeks ago, however, I heard the Holy Spirit very clearly say to me, “I’m about to unravel the cords of confusion.” When I heard this I had the sense that He would begin to do it in September. In 2 Chronicles 20, [we read that] God used the Israelite’s worship to “ambush” their enemies. The result was that these enemies destroyed one another! Expect the confusion to break off the church this fall and God’s enemies to be ambushed."

When I heard this, like so many others that are churned out constantly from "our" (their) movement my initial response is that the Lord said no such thing. In fact in 99.9% of the 'statements' turned out as the God of all creation speaking it is no different. There is an Old Testament passage about dreamers telling their dreams and as hard as that it is to hear it is still the same thing that is so prevalent; It is not the Lord ...

Why this one building block to emphasize? Because it has created the whole backdrop of what constitutes, rather creates the confusion that the "Charismatic Movement" is. None of it is checked, or rebuked at the onset but is allowed to run free course. It is never looked back upon months and years down the road for any resemblance of truth, one replaces the other, one contradicts the other, one is as vague as the next and they just keep on coming. They have set themselves up as oracles of God and the underlings are influenced even without the 'touch not' admonishens. They give off an aire of authority that is caught by inference and ...

"Good hearts". Somehow or another the great misconstruing of this must be understood. This is not the criteria for making any right judgment at all. Yet, it is one that is constantly appealed to regardless. We here in this loosely assembled puzzle have 'good hearts' all about us just as well. Good intentions, Good motivations. In fact, some of us are even foolish enough to speak or question the validity of matters to our own hurt and that hurt is because we do indeed love the church and are not looking for a destruction of an element like this along with 'it's particular people but the construct itself ...

To repeat the quote above;

[i]We have provided camaraderie, not biblical accountability[/i].

Which is why the church now under closer scrutiny with these developments put out a press release (that seemed to be crafted by a professional organization for it's smooth and carefully chosen words) in effect stating 'business as usual'; "We are saddened [b][i]but[/i][/b] ____". But the show must go on?

Where is the scholar-ed Reverend who gave forth his glowing endorsement along with a doctrinal discourse explaining how the whole Lakeland manifestation was true and biblical? Where indeed is all the others who promoted and gave approval, all those even Mr. Sheets is numbering here?

For our part I would draw the smallest attention to one notice; When this all fell apart it was met with a great deal of silence in comparison to the many voices raised in warning at it's height. A witch hunt it was not nor an "I told you so" at it's falling apart. For the most part it is just grief through and through.

Still a great deal more that could be said ... My hope is that the whole construct might come down, though that is highly unlikely. A place for some serious introspection of the whole matter?


[i] As we explore that, maybe we need also to ask about the validity of the whole charismatic phenomenon, whether we in fact have an authentic baptism in the Holy Spirit, and indeed whether we have been born again of the Spirit. Or have we been, from beginning to end, inducted into one of the most colossal deceptions that has ever been perpetrated in the religious world and all history?”[/i]

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&order=0&topic_id=21127&forum=34&post_id=&refresh=Go]The Anatomy of Deception by Art Katz[/url]

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