Hearing God's Voice

I expect this subject has been raised before and apologies if it has but....

How can I know God's voice? In particular, how can I distinguish between God's voice and my own thoughts.

Let me explain what I mean. A few times I have felt that I should pursue a particular course of action. It is a course of action that I am reluctant to follow. However, the thought persists. I would say that it is insistent to the point of dominating my mind e.g. in worship. I pray the Gideon type prayers (Lord, if you want me to do this then bring the issue up in conversation etc) but nothing happens. I then go to church and there is a prophecy about taking burdens on to yourself that the Lord has not given. I respond and am liberated to worship. However, the next week the preacher says something that makes me think the opposite.

Now, how can I know if this really is the voice of God or not? I would really love to clear this up so that I can move on.

You have asked a very good question - I don't know all the answers, but here are some aspects that may help:

1. Is what you are feeling biblical? (if it's not, then it is clearly not of God.)

2. Is it presented in a confusing or condemning manner? - often this also can be an indication that it is not from the Lord.

3. On the other hand, God often has us do things that we don't want to do, or that don't make sense, so that we learn, besides other things, to trust only and completely on Him. He can be very persistant, and to many people that in itself is a sign of God's hand. I would advise getting alone before God and seeing if the thoughts continue to bug you. I know this may be controversial for some people, but if you resist the devil, he will flee from you (Jas 4:7
"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."). Once you have resisted him in Jesus' name, and the thoughts still come back, then it is probably from the Lord. When I have had experiences like you have explained, I will often ask God to show me if it is really from Him by letting me positively know that He is the one speaking to me - and He does! God will help you to know if you are trully seeking the truth.

I hope this has made sense and is a help to you.
SentOut

[u][b]What a wonderful opportunity for you to grow! [/b][/u]Discerning the will of God in your life in a particular issue. You probable know all the things below, but just to remind you these come to my mind:

1. God is not the author of confusion.

2. I understand seeking the counsel of many. Just remember that you will not be taking your pastor with you in your “new course of action” nor will he answer to God for your action.

3. In the seeking counsel department, consider sharing, off-line if need be, this new course of action (if it is too risky/public here). Or, with a mature believer that knows you, your past failings, your growth in Christ.

4. The certainty of a call is essential. Real Peace. The certainty of a call is a point in future prayer, as in, “Father, you said …” If God cannot get through to you clearly and directly now, what will be the case later? He knows you/your heart intension. He can show that to you. Satan only recognizes your flesh and Christ. Did God not reach you in salvation? He says, “Be still and know that I am God.” That is a good place to rest. You already have too many contradictory thoughts/graspings.

5. Examine your past “sticking points” with God. God can show you. A central lesson I learned is: [u][b]It is not until a man is dead that his goods can be dispersed. [/b][/u]

6. Some Saints say wait for three things, ALL THREE: Straight from His Word, perfect peace, and opening circumstances.

7. What is your prayer life like? When I am clear that I am seeking only to obey Him, every time I have been dispirit in prayer, regarding walking issues, I have heard from Him and it always corrects my perception, and the issue is settled immediately (a loving rebuke).

8. In reviewing your post, I notice that what you call “the Gideon type prayers” are either not that type or you are not hearing from God. He asked [u][b]twice and got the same answer[/b][/u]. I suppose that is why you are reaching out here. Consider the Blood of Christ in this situation.

9. We can pray that there be nothing between your Lord and you as you rest in #4.

10. [u][b]If you report how this works out, what you learn, you could help others.[/b][/u]

If you have time you might want to listen to Erlo Stegen in this sermon, he gives scripture and expounds and shares some testimonies and the importance on knowing the Shepard's voice.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=14481&commentView=itemComments]Learning to know the Shepard's voice by Erlo Stegen[/url]

Christian

This is a tough question. I'm finding there are almost always three voices when faced with a decision or some other choice: the Holy Spirit, the Devil (or a demonic spirit) and my own spirit. How do I know which is which...

The Holy Spirit will never tell you something that's contrary to scripture. That's a good general rule. If I obey God's will, it won't make be somebody, it will likely be the opposite end because God can only provide grace to the humble of heart.

There's always a battle of will to twist what God wants into what I want or what I think that God should want rather than what He wants or what He requires. We have to come to a place where the cry of our heart is not my will, but thy will be done. That's oftentimes a place of great tears and brokenness of heart.

The best way to hear God's voice is to quickly obey Him when He asks you to do something (or not to do something, which is equally important). If you're slow to obey, he'll be slow to speak. It's not complicated but I oftentimes forget this simple concept.

The second question is do I have an agenda other than the kingdom of God? If the answer is yes, they'll be a mixture of self with God and it's gets very difficult to discern between the two. The only way out of this is for the self to die. This has been quite painful and I've often fought against this.

The third question to ask oneself is "Am I believing a lie of the devil?" He'll always portray God in a negative light. For example, when asked to fast by the Holy Spirit, he'll say that's not fair to fast one day or week or for a prolonged period. If he asks me to give something I don't want to give, than will I do it or say I'm not sure that was God and not do it.

That's the great fear of my heart, is that we simply ignore the Holy Spirit when He's not telling us what we want to hear. He has not been unkind to me but is very straight and honest with my heart...

Sorry I'm rambling but hope this helped a bit...

I may be breaking from the usual crowd here...

But could you, or anyone else, please post a Biblical example of God leading someone by speaking to them in their thoughts/minds?

All of the examples in the Bible of God speaking to someone is either audible or visual. As far as I know, it is never clearly said to be via thoughts.

The Lord's Scripture is the perfect guide to His will. We have a responsibility to study His Scripture and make wise decisions. Sometimes the Lord gives freedom in an area, and that means we are free to make a godly decision informed by His Scripture.

For further reading on the topic of Biblical decision making, please check out the book "Decision Making and the Will of God" by Frieson

Also, just to kind of expand upon my post and discuss how this would work in your life.

For example, if you are contemplating whether to share the Gospel with someone, we already know it is God's will to share the Gospel via the Scripture; however, you need to take into consideration whether this is a wise time to share the Gospel, what would be good ways to approach this person about the Gospel, etc.

For example, if you are contemplating whether to take a certain job. We already know it is God's will that we work to provide for ourselves. Is this job going to detract from your ability to live as a Christian? Will this job detract from your ability to care for your family? Will this job break any other Scriptural guideline? If not, do you want to work this job? You actually have some freedom to decide. You can take the job or not, what is the wisest thing to do in light of Scripture?

I know waiting on God to specifically tell you what to do outside of the Scripture sounds kind of spiritual and advanced, but it is really an unnecessary burden. Read the Bible. It is God-breathed that the man of God may be perfect and complete. Every decision can be made in light of the Bible, and if the Scripture gives no clear teaching or the situation is something indifferent, you are free to decide.

But could you, or anyone else, please post a Biblical example of God leading someone by speaking to them in their thoughts/minds?

Act 21:11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.

Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Mar 13:11 But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.

Just a few brother. Even the first instance does not suggest audible speaking but intimation, inspiration ...

[b]Act 15:28 -
For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost[/b] - This is a strong and undoubted claim to inspiration. It was with special reference to the organization of the church that the Holy Spirit had been promised to them by the Lord Jesus, Mat_18:18-20; Joh_14:26.

Albert Barnes

Regarding the post that was made citing Scriptures:

Acts 21:11 says nothing about the thoughts or mind. The Holy Spirit could have easily spoken this audibly to the prophet.

Acts 15:28 also says nothing regarding thoughts implanted in the mind.

John 14:26 is a promise directly to the Apostles who would go on to write canonical Scripture breathed by the Holy Spirit in which they recalled what the Lord Jesus said and did. This is not a promise to every believer.

Mark 13:11 is Jesus speaking to the Apostles (Peter, James, and John specifically) and He makes no promise that the Lord will whisper into our thoughts what we should do everyday life circumstances.

Also, regarding another member's post. Be careful not to read meanings into "being led by the Spirit" that are not really indicated in the Scripture.

God certainly has a determined plan for our life. The Lord has purposes He is going to work in the Earth. However, we are never instructed to beg the Lord to reveal these plans to us. He has graciously given us His Scripture as our perfect guide, and we are to live in light of that Scripture and make wise, godly decisions.

To claim that God is constantly speaking things into your mind is to elevate your thoughts to the level of Scripture, and is a good way to open the doors wide open for everyone to "do what is right in their own eyes".

I would encourage you all to enjoy the freedom of knowing the Bible is truly perfect to guide our lives.

Also, I know all this talk about waiting on the Lord to tell you what to do sounds really a lot like the "old paths" and very pietistic; however, you would be suprised just how new a thing it is that this view is widely accepted by Christians.

If you want a thorough refute of the view, you can also look into Jonathan Edward's "Religious Affections".

I wanted to apologize if I gave the mistaken impression that hearing from God is some kind of mystical experience. It's far from mystical but more specific, like don't contend with your wife, do this, don't do this. There's simply a still small voice...

There's many examples in the scriptures. Here's one of my favorites from Acts 9...

10In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, "Ananias!" "Yes, Lord," he answered.

11The Lord told him, "Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight."

13"Lord," Ananias answered, "I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your saints in Jerusalem. 14And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name."

15But the Lord said to Ananias, "Go! This man is my chosen instrument to carry my name before the Gentiles and their kings and before the people of Israel. 16I will show him how much he must suffer for my name."

17Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit."

Dear death2self...

In this passage, the Spirit could have spoken audibly to Ananias. We have no evidence that it was something in the mind. I just wanted to put out to fellow believers there is really not any proof that the Lord is constantly speaking into our minds what to do.

The things like you said, "don't content with your wife", etc. are all Scriptural commands. We do not need any special revelation to know those things. I am simply contending that the Scripture has guidance for every single situation in life, and if it does not speak on a specific topic, then we have freedom to make godly decisions. I believe this is the only position that fully agrees with the Scripture being perfectly sufficient for the believer. It really has been a very liberating thing in my life and I hope has born much fruit since I understood the truth that the Bible is sufficient to guide me and I don't have to be tormented by wondering if the voice in my head is God or not.

Grace to you.

Ggriffo,

And there is nothing wrong with your question, as long as it’s in the perfect will of God that you ask. When our thoughts get the best of us, and we find ourselves struggling to hear the Voice of God, same as your, hearing gods voice/this is the time when you gather all of your thoughts unto the obedience of Jesus Christ.

Every thought that tries to rise up against the knowledge of God’s word is held captive unto the obedience of Jesus Christ.

Gideon was a man or war, as God is a man of War. Gideon was smart enough to know that he needed confirmation before pursing his triumphant victory. God gave him his confirmation twice. (sorry only because you used Gideon as an ex.)

Moses was a man that needed to know if God would accompany him. Moses felt inadequate yet God told him that he would be his mouth piece, and gave him a staff -- Many miracles were accomplished with that staff, several signs and wonders for the unbelieving.

What can you possibly tell God that he does not already know or should I say that he has always known.

God is looking at your heart and your willingness to submit to him. Obedience is better than sacrifice.

•\tYour struggles God already knows them
•\tYour failures God already knows them
•\tYour weaknesses God already knows them
•\tYour past history God already knows them

When Moses was having communion with God, he told him that he wanted to see his face, the Lord/Jehovah told him that no one could see his face, so instead he passed by him and Moses discerned his glory. Why did Moses discern his glory? He discerned his glory because he walked in the fear of the Lord/Jehovah, and he knew that there was nothing that could possibly be hidden from Jehovah.

When the Israelites were freed from Egypt, they desired to have communion with God, as Moses did, why should, they be excluded. God granted them there wish, but as soon as they heard his voice they feared him, and said No! Moses you speak to God, and then convey it to us.

It is the Glory of God the Lord / Jehovah you should be pursing not his audible voice.

God is the same yesterday, today, and forever more, he does not change. Yet he requires us to change, he who has an ear let him hear what the Spirit of the Lord is saying.

Here is a portion from Jonathan Edwards...

"And if persons have the will of God concerning their actions, suggested to them by some text of Scripture, suddenly and extraordinarily brought to their minds, which text, as the words lay in the Bible before they came to their minds, related to the action and behavior of some other person, but they suppose, as God sent the words to them, he intended something further by them, and meant such a particular action of theirs; I say, if persons
should have the will of God thus suggested to them with texts of Scripture, it alters not the case. The suggestion being accompanied with an apt text of Scripture, does not make the suggestion to be the nature of spiritual instruction. As for instance, if a person in New England, on some occasion, were at a loss whether it was his duty to go into some popish or heathenish land, where he was like to be exposed to many difficulties and dangers, and should pray to God that he would show him the way of his duty; and after earnest prayer, should have those words which God spake to Jacob, Gen. 46, suddenly and extraordinarily brought to his mind, as if they were spoken to him; "Fear not to go down into Egypt; for I will go with thee; and I will also surely bring you up again." In which words, though as they lay in the Bible before they came to his mind, they related only to Jacob, and his behavior; yet he supposes that God has a further meaning, as they were brought and applied to him; that thus they are to be understood in a new sense, that by Egypt is to be understood this particular country he has in his mind, and that the action intended is his going thither, and that the meaning of the promise is, that God would bring him back into New England again. There is nothing of the nature of a spiritual or gracious leading of the Spirit in this; for there is nothing of the nature of spiritual understanding in it. Thus to understand texts of Scripture, is not to have a spiritual understanding of them. Spiritually to understand the Scriptures, is rightly to understand what is in the Scripture, and what was in it before it was understood: it is to understand rightly, what used to be contained in the meaning of it, and not the making of a new meaning...This making a new meaning to the Scripture, is the same thing as making a new Scripture; it is properly adding to the word, which is threatened with so dreadful a curse."

Griffo,

I would suggest you ask the LORD to teach you to recognize his voice when he speaks to you. I would think we would all agree He will not tell you to do something contrary to the Word of God, but what you are interested in is in the everyday things of life which calls for a decision and you are at a loss to know which way to go.

I have learned also that the LORD will often tell you to do something that defies logic - at the moment. When you do the logical thing, you will discover later you should have followed that still small voice instead.

The short of the long is to simply ask the LORD to be taught by Him and mean it when you ask and be willing to follow through with obedience. Disobedience is the greatest hinderance to experiencing the Spirit-filled life. Actually, the scriptures calls it sin.

Blessings,
ginnyrose

Act 15:28 For it [b]seemed[/b] good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

Acts 15:28 also says nothing regarding thoughts implanted in the mind.

Why 'seemed' then? Why not specific? If it seemed good to the Holy Ghost was He then just a part of a consortium of opinion? Brother, I think you are going too far the other way with all this.

I certainly agree there is far too much in this day and age of the idea, as you put it;

To claim that God is constantly speaking things into your mind ...

But I do not see anyone here suggesting that and noticed you have mentioned more than once, the idea of 'constantly' speaking\\hearing.

John 14:26 is a promise directly to the Apostles who would go on to write canonical Scripture breathed by the Holy Spirit in which they recalled what the Lord Jesus said and did. This is not a promise to every believer.

What does 'breathed' mean? Think of it another way. If there is no internal dynamic, a "speaking" if you will then what is the need for the Holy Spirit, why not just the recalling of what the Lord said and did? Or just dictation from audible speaking?

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

Which voice? Audible? Interesting the way the Lord puts this isn't it? We hear His voice and [i]He[/i] knows us, not that we hear His voice and [u]we[/u] know Him. There is something more penetrating than the reverberations of the eardrums going on here.

Rom 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

What is this being "led" to mean? Do you realize the way you are presenting this is to basically extract the Holy Spirit completely, there is no need for Him to take this to the complete end you are heading.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

How? By ignoring His audible voice? What about prayer ... ?

Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

How do you know you are born of the Spirit? Did the Lord speak to you audibly? Or just because you read and believed the scriptures ... See where this can go just the other direction, do we not have an abundance of those who have done this very thing (saying the sinners prayer for instance) and yet have no internal evidence of a changed disposition. Certainly there must be this and it is enough ... if ... what? All the other conditions are met, repentance, forsaking of sin ...

What are we to do with;

Rom 8:15 For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father.

Gal 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

"The Spirit of his Son into your hearts."

Also, I know all this talk about waiting on the Lord to tell you what to do sounds really a lot like the "old paths" and very pietistic; however, you would be suprised just how new a thing it is that this view is widely accepted by Christians.

Psa 27:14 Wait on the LORD: be of good courage, and he shall strengthen thine heart: wait, I say, on the LORD.

With regards to the purpose/need of the Holy Spirit if the Lord is not actively speaking into our thoughts to guide us...

I would suggest a good summary verse is Ezek 36:27.. "And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them."

You are right, the Spirit does have a role in comforting and allowing the believer the take hold of Scripture promises. I would suggest one of the main roles of the Holy Spirit is in sanctification (also confer Phil 2:13).

Regarding Acts 15:28... James has just reasoned from the Scripture about what should happen. As I said before, there is no mention of a whisper in their minds. However, doubtless God guided them providentially by His grace; however, it doesn't appear they all sat in silence and waited on the Lord to speak into their thoughts. The Apostle reasoned from the Scripture.

I interpret John 10:27 as speaking of the elect's response to the Gospel proclamation. The Lord seems to be speaking about the converting effect the Gospel has on the elect (sheep). As the Gospel proclamation awakens them to repent and believe, they "hear His voice". Hence, the Pharisees do not hear His voice, because they are not His sheep.

Regarding Romans 8:14 - To be led by the Spirit is to live in such a way that you bring forth the fruit of the Spirit.

Regarding Ephesians 4:30 - Do not grieve the Spirit by sinning... not by ignoring whispers in your mind.

Regarding Galatians 4:6 - Yes, the Lord renews us and gives us a heart of flesh that we love God. This is the Spirit's work. This still does not speak of the Spirit's whisperin into our minds to guide our decision making.

Regarding Psalm 27:14 - I said "waiting on the Lord to tell you what to do"... I believe the Scriptures tell us what to do and is perfectly sufficient to guide our every decision. This verse does not speak of waiting for the Lord to whisper into your mind what to do given a specific situation... I offer John Gill's exposition of the verse:

Ver. 14. Wait on the Lord,.... This, with what follows, is spoken by the psalmist either to himself or to others, or it may be to both, upon the rich experience he declares in Ps 27:13: it becomes believers to wait on the Lord for the common blessings of life, for even the eyes of all wait upon him for their daily food; and for the light of his countenance, when it is withdrawn from them, for he will return again at the set time; and for answers of prayer, which will be given sooner or later; and for the performance of his promises, which are yea and amen in Christ: they should wait upon him in his house and ordinances constantly, with reverence and godly fear; they should wait upon him as servants on their masters, observe his orders, and diligently execute them; and, as beggars for their alms, they should knock and wait at Wisdom's gates, tell their case and wait, take repulses and wait, and, when they succeed, give thanks. It is good to wait upon the Lord; many are the favours and blessings such receive now, and eye has not seen what God has prepared for them that wait for him;

------------------------

I would just ask all that follow the view that we are guided by having God whisper into our minds and hearts what to do answer this question: Is the Bible sufficient to guide you? As far as I can tell, your answer would have to be "no".

Thanks for interacting on this issue, brother. I pray that we both can learn by examining the Scripture!

Grace to you.

Hi Griffo,

This might be helpful ...

[b]Meditation[/b]

[i]"He is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in its season and whose leaf does not wither. Whatever he does prospers."[/i]

In recent months, I have tried to say to God’s people, when you come across very crucial words in the Scripture, don’t turn to Webster’s dictionary for your definition. The dictionary simply gives you the most prevailing use of that term in our society. When you find a word in the Scriptures, you need to let the Scriptures tell you what that means. That is true about meditation.

The first psalm says,

[i]Blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, or stand in the way of sinners, or sit in the seat of mockers.But his delight is in the law of the Lord, and in his law he meditates day and night. He is like a tree planted by streams of water, which yields its fruit in its season and whose leaf does not wither. Whatever he does prospers.[/i]
--Psalm 1:1-3 NIV

Scripture is wonderful, if you meditate on it. Our problem is we read without meditation. Your life will never be anchored like a tree without meditation. Some say, "I’ve read through the Bible at least once every year."Well, that’s wonderful, but your life will not be anchored by a river of living water until you stop and meditate on God’s Word.

It’s the one who meditates on God’s Word day and night who becomes like a tree planted by the rivers of water. So, you really need to know what meditating is. Now, in our generation, we talk about transcendental editation. On television we can see the stereotypical meditator, eyes closed, mumbling the same phrase over and over. That’s not biblical meditation at all.

Let me tell you my own definition of meditation. Meditation is that moment when God confronts you with the truth about Himself. It is that moment when you go into the presence of God and let God discuss it with you until you know exactly how to respond to Him, however long it takes.

The Psalms hold a wealth of truth to meditate upon, for instance, Psalm 23. When you read, "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall lack nothing," hopefully, you can realize that to meditate on this wonderful psalm does not mean to bring your thinking into play. It means to let God bring His understanding to you, His relationship to you. You cannot, by thinking, understand the ways of God.

By relationship, God enters your mind and your heart, and suddenly, there is an expansion from the Scripture of what it means for the Lord to be your shepherd. As you move through the psalm, you will stop at the word, "Lord." All of a sudden, if you have a great deal of Scripture that has washed over your mind and heart, those Scriptures will come back to remind you about what it means for God to be your Lord.

Whether the pain is heavy, the mind is bewildered, or the heart has been pierced, right now, He is your Lord. You could stop and say, "I’ve heard the testimony of many others who told me about how the Lord has been real to them. But, right now, Lord, you are telling me that everything You have ever been to anyone else, You are to me, now."

As you move through those thoughts, let the Lord confirm them. Let the Lord enlarge that discovery with wonderful Scriptures. As you meditate on those phrases from Psalm 1, you may suddenly sense that you are in one of the biggest storms that has ever worked itself against you, your marriage, and your family. Those verses alone may be the comfort brought to you by the Holy Spirit, whose assignment it is to teach you all things, to guide you into all truth, and to bring back to your remembrance things God has said to you.

Then your mind comes to the storm on the Sea of Galilee. Peter was a fisherman, and if there were anybody who would know the magnitude of a storm, it would be a fisherman. I grew up in a fishing village and am very, very much aware of the storms that have taken many of my friends’ fathers in the middle of the night.

It was Peter the fisherman who said, "Master! Do you not know that we perish?" And what did the Lord say? "Why is your heart so full of fear?" Jesus stood and stilled the entire storm with one word. As you meditate, the Spirit of the Lord will say, "See that? See that storm? You think you have a storm! Where is your Lord?"

The Scripture says if the Lord is in your little boat, then you are as safe as He is safe. That storm won’t take you and leave the Master in the back of the boat. If the Master’s in your little boat, in your family, in your workplace,you are as safe as He is. Then, you can sense the Master Himself saying,"Why did you let your heart grow so concerned? Let me speak a word to your situation." And, He speaks a word, and everything calms. You find yourself on the other side of the storm. I have been there. I have watched Him do it.

That is meditation. That is letting God bring you to a passage of Scripture and then Him letting you sort of sit with Him to discuss that truth about Himself and bring it home to you and your situation.

[url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/articles/index.php?view=category&cid=108]Henry Blackaby[/url]

Another resource that I recall now;

http://www.dwillard.org/books/HearingGod.asp

Dear brothers,

I have yet to see anyone explain straight from the Scripture that the Holy Spirit whispers into our minds what decisions we should make in a given situation.

I am not saying that there is no role of the Holy Spirit, I am just asserting the fact that the majority view of the Holy Spirit as our decision making assistant is not as warranted in the Scripture as people make it out to be.

The Spirit is alive and dwells within us... just not as our personal decision maker. The Spirit illuminates the Word, applies it to our hearts, sanctifies us, comforts us by applying Scripture promises, etc... but I find no warrant in the Bible that the Spirit tells us what to do via implanted thoughts/feelings.

As far as not holding to this view producing cold, lifeless religion; that plainly contradicts Christian history... for example: Jonathan Edwards, David Brainerd, Matthew Henry, John Gill, and a host of other saints of old.

Those who disagree, I would ask what Paul means in these verses:

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

"That the man of God may be perfect"... that seems to say that the Scripture is sufficient enough to guide me in every decision I face.

Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

Dear Taylor,

Think there is a great possibility of going past each other here while stating much of the same understanding. Brother Tom I concur with and also with where you are cautioning but from a different perspective, or better, emphasis.

I have yet to see anyone explain straight from the Scripture that the Holy Spirit whispers into our minds what decisions we should make in a given situation.

"Constantly" ... as you used earlier. Here, 'whispering', which I would only say ... well, yes and no, depends on a great deal of clarification. If I am following you correctly here I would add my own earlier experience where there was much confusion by a similar ... expectation to hear 'turn by turn' instruction, that being led of the Spirit was equivalent to a GPS unit. It became a certain madness trying to decipher the various 'voices' that these minds are capable of. A lot of that was internalized from the constructs of very bad teaching, the whole quasi-world of WOF, the tendencies of zeal brought on by truly coming into the Light, being raised Catholic and then hearing the counter voices of far better teachers, sermons, Church history, past saints ... A whole mixed, struggling to understand ... just how is this all supposed to work?

1Co 15:46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

Found myself in that pendulumitis as Zac Poonen coined it, going from one extreme to the other. Recognizing the error that I was somewhat bound up in, went to the opposite end of the spectrum, denouncing most everything that did not line up didactic with the new found understanding, which was more of a hard-line approach 'the letter of the law' so to speak. I say somewhat because there was a suppressed internal nagging all along that I knew things where amiss, not right, not jiving.

1Co 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

This is a spiritual life with spiritual understanding and spiritual absolutes ...

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

Our warfare is spiritual, we recognize the battle and in all honestly do not even need the admonishen to tell us it is so as Paul does. He explains more than instructs in a variety of places. (Ephesians for instance).

Even after so much time it is difficult to put into words the expression of understanding. I think that is why so many of us are more fond of quoting others, it is because they give the expression of what we experience so much better, more articulately, with greater clarity. It's the cliché' like "better caught than taught". It's recognizing the spiritual atmosphere in any given place, circumstance, setting. It is where the thoughtful, mindful ... internally honest soul is disturbed even in religious settings where everyone else is seemingly having the time of their life while they sit like a lump, to borrow Art Katz' language, grieved, distraught ... [i]This is not the Lord[/i].

But it is 'scriptural' in understanding;

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

Absolutely. It is what many of us are saying and appealing to on a constant basis. As one of our own here put it very succinctly recently to me;

[i]... these are times to be men of the Word, and not men of "what I think the Lord is telling me." [/i]

I may well be a bit disjointed here, the thoughts are coming from different angles. Suffice it to say that what I am 'hearing' and I mean spiritually is scripture in any given moment. In prayer, in the waking, working normative hours of the day. The verses and underpinnings of them, the comparative counsel of the whole of scripture, the context and yet the principle. The word of God comes to mind only in as much as we feed on it;

Mat 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Col 3:16 Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

Still feel like I have hardly touched on all this but must run, perhaps others can elaborate ...

Thanks for your post.

I don't really think much more interaction on the topic is necessary on my end, as we have both presented our veiwpoints and the discerning reader can be left to judge what is more Scriptural.

Briefly, with regards to "... these are times to be men of the Word, and not men of "what I think the Lord is telling me."

I think the difference between this quote and me would be that I would say there we are to be men of the Word, and not men of what I think the Lord is telling me ALL the time.

I feel strongly about this topic because I have been down the road of the viewpoint others are advocating and it is a confusing mess. However, as I begin to realize that the Scripture alone was enough to guide me (however, I can only truly love and apprehend Scripture by the Spirit's enablement), I found that my faith and decisions were grounded on solid, eternal truth rather than subjective, questionable feelings/thoughts.

Both of us believe that the Spirit indwells the believer; however, we are disagreeing on the role of the Spirit. Also, I am not holding a cessationist view, which implies that the Spirit used to do something and then stopped. I am saying that I don't see any evidence that the Lord EVER lead His people by implanting thoughts/feelings. I only read about audible speaking or visions. Outside of that, I see a whole lot about studying the Scripture and taking heed to God's written commands.

Thanks for posting about this, hopefully we have both been sharpened in the faith. :-)

I think our Father is maybe not finnished here.

As I write some thoughts out from this post, there is an audible :-) radio program airing on this link at this time. http://www.crown.org/Media/default.aspx The host Chuck, of Crown Financial Ministries, talking about how God spoke to his mind. "unsearchable revelation" They archive. I am only pointing out that they are discussing something of the concerns here. You can easily see the points at which the death of self is needed to be mentioned and other less clearly articulated points. (Mr. Laturno has a wonderful testimony a little like our brother who wrote [u]God Owns My Business[/u])

Now back to thoughts I am writing out

You quoted Luke 18:18, back up to verse 15 for a second.

Luk 8:15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

What is the word in the parable of the sower? I don't think I'm going out on an exegetical limb when I say it is the proclaimed Gospel of our Lord. Not a thought in your mind that you believe to be revelation from the Lord. This verse has nothing to do with hearing from God in the sense of thoughts/feelings. It has to do with the preached word. Take heed how hear the word, hear it with reverence, with meditation, learn what it means.

I strive to obey the Scripture. As I said before, there is a lot of Biblical exhortation for meditating and obeying the Scripture. However, I find nothing for obeying the voices in my head or the feelings in my heart. Do you know what cult emphasizes that teaching? Mormonism. A cursed cult with a false gospel.

I want my children to hear from God in his Holy Scripture, His infallible Word. That Word is sure and true, preserved throughout the ages. We have a responsibility to study it diligently in order that we may do and believe what it says.

I have answered every verse that has been brought into this thread with what I sincerely find to be simple contextual observation. You are simply reading what you have come to believe about "hearing" from God into the text and made it say things it doesn't say.

As my first post stated, I still have yet to see anyone anywhere bring Scripture to the table and prove from the Scripture that God has appointed silent thoughts/feelings in the mind to be a guide for us.

Yes, I hear the Lord every morning as I read His holy Scripture.

All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: [b]That the man of God may be perfect[/b], thoroughly furnished unto all good works. (2nd Tim 3:16-17)

And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead? [b]To the law and to the testimony:[/b] if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. (Isaiah 8:19-20)

I am convicted of sin by the Scripture, I am comforted by the Lord in the Scripture, I am corrected in the Scripture, I find what is right and wrong in the Scripture.

There are dead churches; they are the ones who forsake Scripture. I could be wrong, but you seem to be implying that those who believe they are guided solely by Scripture must be dead, cold heathens. I know some godly men who would beg to differ.

I am not teaching something new, this is sound truth accepted by godly saints throughout the ages.

[u]Sorry Brothertom[/u]. I thought my early post indicated that I take Griffo's question seriously and efforts here to articulate a helpful balanced response. The radio program in the background was easy to notice as I searched the scriptures, noting points that matter and considered what might be useful here versus just for me. I take it that noticing such coincidences can confuse some, perhaps even Griffo at times. Thus the quick post.

Rather than editing down my thoughts to Griffo I’ll just post them now with thoughts for Taylor Otwell to follow.

GRIFFO
Oh dear Griffo, what a windfall. I trust you are tracking all this. These wonderful sincere brothers and sisters, who understand that [u]the things of God matter greatly[/u], are very dear. And they are not strangers to the difficulty you expressed. No one growing in Christ, the Word of God, is a stranger here, either through direct experience or in close fellowship with others. Can you see the comfort each has received and apply it.

Everyone who is awake/waking up needs the balance spoken of in this thread. [u][b]Balance[/b][/u]: The soldier’s position of standing at “ready-rest”. I mean standing, ready to, and at rest. [u][b]Balance[/b][/u]: knowing the scripture and the power of God. Spirit and Truth. Jesus was clear that both are needed 24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?(Mark 12:24)

The work He is doing in you brings you to the same fullness that the work he is doing in all believers. He made you uniquely (a different number of hairs on your head). He knows how to grow you. That is why we press into Him. There is nothing [u]objectively[/u] more trustworthy than the Word of God/scripture. Without Him/[u]scripture that is made alive[/u] (lots of things) but in regard to your specific question, how can you distinguish voices/thoughts/various spirits (man, yours and others, familiar spirits)?

So, Griffo, some of what stood out to me follows and I am grateful that these were brought out.

[u]Hmmhmm[/u]: I found things on the tape you gave in a link that were honest and had virtue. Good to think on. I trust Taylor took a listen.

[u]Death2Self[/u]: the battle with the “old man”/self in control/my way-my glory that gets a deathblow at the cross, just as your name suggests stands out. Death2Self, you were not rambling! Look and see how what you said followed our Lord’s response to the three temptations (the Word, the whole Word and nothing but the Word of God). I have a well-used mental note to examine thorny issues from that perspective.

[u]Brotherton[/u]: John G. Lakes testimony was good to recall and one of thousands. I am so grateful we have records of those that went before. Particularly when they are by their own hand. They are not scripture, not perfect, but what a gift. Early on for me I recall asking missionaries, “How did God …How were you led to …” About their response, “Doors opened, doors closed.” I thought, “Well of course …that doesn’t cut it…. I mean exactly. “

[u]Ginnyrose[/u]: “Ask Him to teach you.” That heart attitude always helps me. Clearly He wills to teach us (to His glory and our good.).

[u]Crsschk[/u]: I appreciated your addressing exaggeration (the “constantly”) and balance. It was helpful to see your thought in the scripture references. And, Meditation on His Word is so fruitful! Like getting a hold of a rope (life line) and following it hand-over-hand.

Taylor,

[i]But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. [b]But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.[/b][/i] 1Co 2:9-16

[i]Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.[/i]2Co 3:5,6

I have answered every verse that has been brought into this thread with what I sincerely find to be simple contextual observation. You are simply reading what you have come to believe about "hearing" from God into the text and made it say things it doesn't say.

No, you have not but are perilously close to killing with the letter ... You will make yourself into a Pharisee and frankly are starting to sound exactly like one. I am afraid you understand nothing of spiritual life only the letter.

For example, if you are contemplating whether to share the Gospel with someone, we already know it is God's will to share the Gospel via the Scripture; however, you need to take into consideration whether this is a wise time to share the Gospel, what would be good ways to approach this person about the Gospel, etc.

Or ...

[i]And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily. Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were [u]forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word[/u] in Asia, [/i]Act 16:5,6

If you are going to measure everything by your intellect and reason you know nothing but soulish attributes and will be guided and ruled of them. What is disturbing is your penchant towards extremism. Granted, this age is overwrought with soulish, sentimental, 'feelings' and misconstrued twisting of the scriptures. Granted, the Word of God, the scriptures .. all things tested, all things measured, all things to the law and the testimony. We go to great, absurd lengths here .. the Brethren, the pastors and ministers, the long dead saints that dominate this site ... it is adamant and forceful ... Be good Bereans! It is the battle cry in this age of deception. It is redundant and constant. All these things and more ...

Yet, for all this you still cannot 'hear' because your fixed expectation is to have your ears reverberated by sound waves and propose that is how the indwelt Spirit operates. If that be so He would never need to take up residence, only a bullhorn, a microphone and PA system or a physical apparition speaking, a voice from the clouds ... can you not see how ridiculous this all is?

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

Joh 10:27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me

That voice is internal and that voice does not contradict itself in word, thought or deed.

Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

How long did the Lord walk and talk directly into their hearing and they did not recognize Him? Their hearts burned even while he opened to them the very scriptures themselves and yet it still took something other, something past ...

Luk 24:31 And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight.

Physical eyes? Physical hearing? Physical voice?

Brother, I fear for you if you do not develop a spiritual understanding.

I could be wrong, but you seem to be implying that those who believe they are guided solely by Scripture must be dead, cold heathens. I know some godly men who would beg to differ.

Your spirit is giving off a coldness and a contentious mindset. I know these same godly men, guided solely by scripture would indeed beg to differ with you yourself.

[i]And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, [/i]

I pray He might open your understanding as well.

Do a study on spirit, on spiritual, on the Holy Spirit and anything related. Likewise study the heart and understanding from beginning to end, the whole counsel of Gods word. This has always been the Lords great controversy with his creatures, that they do not know Him in the manner and ways that he would have us to.

Cannot even begin to touch on the matter of prayer in your constructs, it would seem foolish and unnecessary to even bother with the exercise of prayer, with pleading and intercession when there is no expectation of answer lest it be audible ...

[i]Edit[/i]: Almost forgot just where I had been reading this morning as yet another example ...

[i]Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas ...

And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen ...

And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.[/i] Act 1:16-26

I'll answer all the Scriptural arguments you presented...

[b]But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. 1Co 2:9-16[/b]

This passage states that those who have the Spirit of God can understand, cherish, and love the things of God because they have that Spirit to reveal it to them and to show the beauty of it to them. That does not mean, nor does it say anywhere in the verse, that the Spirit reveals it by a voice in our heads. I'm sure you have studied the Bible with someone who simply did not cherish or grasp the beauty of the gospel, that is what this verse is talking about. They were not able to because the Spirit did not reveal the beauty of it to them. You are assuming the Spirit reveals it by inward suggestions, I am stating that the mind and haert are opened to understand, cherish, and love the Scripture and what it teaches.

[b]Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.2Co 3:5,6[/b]

This verse has been taken out of context many times in this thread. It is saying nothing about what this thread is talking about. Paul is talking about the Law vs. Grace as a system of salvation. They are not ministers of the letter (law, Ten Commandments) as a way of salvation. I'll offer Matthew Henry's exposition...

He distinguishes between the letter and the spirit even of the New Testament, 2Co_3:6. As able ministers of the New Testament, they were ministers not merely of the letter, to read the written word, or to preach the letter of the gospel only, but they were ministers of the Spirit also; the Spirit of God did accompany their ministrations. The letter killeth; this the letter of the law does, for that is the ministration of death; and if we rest only in the letter of the gospel we shall be never the better for so doing, for even that will be a savour of death unto death; but the Spirit of the gospel, going along with the ministry of the gospel, giveth life spiritual and life eternal.

Matthew Henry is speaking of the Gospel's life-changing power in contrast to the law's condemning power. This passage has nothing to do with how God guides people, and should not be treated as such.

[b]And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily. Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia, Act 16:5,6[/b]

Again, you have to make assumptions to make this passage say what you want it so say. This could have been similar to Peter's vision of the animals being clean in Acts 10. How do you know it wasn't an audible voice or a vision?

[b]Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.[/b]

They will hear his voice in the sense of Romans 8:29-30. They are the elect (sheep), God opens their hearts to receive the gospel, and in that sense, they hear His voice. Jesus is contrasting the sheep (elect) with the Pharisees whom he declares are not his sheep. They cannot hear his voice, they cannot accept the Gospel, they have no desire to obey the Gospel. These verses are a matter of believing the Gospel or not and why certain people believe. These verses are not speaking of how some people are guided by inward thoughts and some are not.

[b]Luk 24:32 And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?[/b]

The Lord's people often do have their hearts burning with passion, desire, and emotion. This still has nothing to do with being guided by inward thoughts.

The passage about casting lots also says nothing about being guided by inward voices.

------------------------------------

[b]Regarding how this works in prayer[/b] -- I'll offer some insight from my life.

Some major things I pray for are: God's kingdom would come to earth and His will be done on earth as it is in heaven, daily provision, sanctification, forgiveness, understanding of His Scripture, and for the salvation of others.

Which one of these requires an an answer in my mind? I don't see any that do. Which one of the petitions in the Lord's prayer requires an answer via thoughts in my mind? None.

The Lord has already answered them in the Scripture. "Those who hunger and thirst for righteousness shall be filled", "Of the increase of His government shall be no end", "Do not worry for your life", "For all these things (clothes, food) do the nations of the world seek after: and your Father knoweth that ye have need of these things."

[b]This has always been the Lords great controversy with his creatures, that they do not know Him in the manner and ways that he would have us to.[/b]

Exactly. Some worship a god according to what they feel, and some worship God according to what He commands. I am not implying you are worshiping a false god, but I do think that the Lord has provided a perfect Scripture as our guide, and it is sufficient to guide me in all situations.

My fathers in the faith sealed this truth with their blood. I know this may come off "cold" on an online message board, but I'm really passionate about the fact that the Scripture is sufficient. I'm against dead, cold mental assent to facts just as well as you. I just don't feel being passionate , joyful, and fervent for our Lord requires listening to inward thoughts and suggestions. The Scripture is what made the disciple's hearts burn within them, and understanding that Scripture is what makes my heart burn with passion.

Also, I am passionate about this because I have been through this myself. I know what the confusion is like of trying to discern inward voices. I know people are often burdened because the inward voices in their mind harass them constantly with demands and obligations that throw them into a works-driven trap. I also know that people are often on the other end of the spectrum, walking in ungodliness because they feel that the Lord doesn't really hate sin that much. I am striving to proclaim freedom from both of these pits. Freedom from trying to discern your inward feelings and suggestions, and turning to a perfect Scripture that is sufficient to make the man of God complete.

[u]To Taylor [/u]

If it seems I am going slowly here, it is my effort to be clear and not introduce ideas that sidetrack the heart of the issue, as I understand it. I think I am accurate in saying, about myself, that the Word of God is sufficient AND I hear His voice and recognize it as different from mine.

In the extreme, on the one hand we have in churches those who offers all kinds of things under the guise of “I heard from the Lord…and God said to me …spoke to my heart….” Damage here includes false doctrine, confusion, “torment and unnecessary burden” and some (only some) of what prompted Griffo’s question.

On the other hand, in the extreme, we have in churches (what are some of the words?) dead orthodoxy, legalism, Pharisees. Damage includes hypocrisy. Maybe you have come across this description of the extremes: Truth without Spirit you Dry Up, Spirit without Truth you Blow Up; Truth and Spirit you Grow Up. [u]Phil. 3:10 has the treatment for both extremes.[/u] I don’t hear either extreme in these posts. I do hear you, Taylor, found a way out of “torment and an unnecessary burden,” that might have led to one extreme. I also hear the love of an intimate relationship with God through His indwelling Holy Spirit, treasuring the ability to hear and distinguish His voice. These are appeals for the centrality of Truth, of the Word of God [u][b]and[/b][/u] the reality of the indwelling Holy Spirit (in this case hearing God).

I will try here to clear the table of this discussion and see what is left on it to consider because I think there are some things left to consider.

#1 Surely everyone agrees with you that using an “inner-voice” [b]as an alternative [/b] to scripture is a bad/dangerous idea/practice. You make an important point because we can all recall specific people that seem to have fallen into that with sad results. There is testimony, yours included, in this thread of the confusion that takes over when going off in that direction. So,
[u]“inner-vioce” as an alternative to scripture can be taken off the table. [/u]

#2 I did not read anyone supporting the “constantly speaking” you introduced as objectionable: “constantly speaking into our minds what to do”/ “what I think the Lord is telling me ALL the time”. So your[u]“constantly speaking” can be taken off the table.[/u]

[u]Hearing God’s voice remains on the table[/u]: audible (I take it you mean could have been heard by others near by) or inaudible (in the mind of the hearer).

[u]Toward clarity on the inner experience of thinking[/u]: With the exception of individuals born deaf (as the world understands deaf), when we think, read, meditate, etc., our thoughts, as we perceive them, are heard inwardly in words. They are words and they are not broadcast audibly to any flesh. I take it that this is what people mean by “hearing” when there is [u]no audible- to-others [/u] sound. Some people, when they are concentrating strongly on what they are reading say they “go blind to the ink words on the paper, see what is being written about, don’t recall turning pages even.” They simply hear the written words like a story being recited and if they see something, they see what is being heard.” Forgive me for being so tedious but it seems needful and it goes somewhere. For a contrast here: Deaf people utilize other senses, like they see pictures in a flow without the sound of words.

Now the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of Christ and, born again, we have the Mind of Christ. Meditation, thinking God’s thoughts after Him is a perfect aid here. I have never heard of anyone who does not consider that part of the growing in Christ we experience. Paul takes pains to distinguish between what is of Christ and what is of Paul on some points. Making such a distinction is clearly possible and at times necessary. I think this is the distinction [u]Griffo[/u] looks for at a gross level. How to recognize as “mine” or God’s specific thoughts (that would be inwardly hearable words) or what others happen to say (audibly of course).

So far I have not answered your requirement: I don't see any evidence that the Lord EVER lead His people by implanting thoughts/feelings. I only read about audible speaking or visions.

[u]Scripture to consider [/u][u][b]in evidence[/b][/u]. What do you understand to be the difference between Mary [u][b]hearing [/b][/u] Jesus in John 20:15 and in 20:16. Both were audible. Yet something of her hearing in the second case allowed her to identify the audible voice of the Lord as the Lords. What would be the point here of speaking in a way that she did not recognize Him. Crsschk elaborated on this. I’m just keeping the focus narrow. In addition to opening ears to hear we have the examples of opening eyes to see. Regarding the Emmaus Road, Luke says they were not able to see Him. Mark says He appeared in another form. The Lord opened the eyes of Elisha’s servant. Did everyone else in the neighborhood see? Did the servant see both at once? These men were men just like us. How do we know if, when the prophets report hearing the Lord, that they heard Him audibly when Scripture [u]most often [/u] doesn’t say they heard Him audibly. What would be the point, or the need, of a prophet speaking the Word of God, if God spoke in an audible-to-others voice?

What a racket there would be if every time we heard from Him it was audible to others. What confusion: “Are you talking to me?” What potential for gossip. Sorry, sorry. The hour is late. :lol: Humor helps.

Romans 10: 13-18 is wonderful sandwich in context, with the audible, the center unspecified hearing of the Word of God, and the inaudible.

[u]Now to the hard part [b]that you put on the table[/b][/u]. You say:

Every decision can be made in light of the Bible, and if the Scripture gives no clear teaching or the situation is something indifferent, you are free to decide.

When I read what you say slowly, I find that [u][b](#1) [/b][/u] the decisions I make are limited to what I already know of the Bible. While it is an admirable goal to truly know the whole Word of God (Paul pressed on in his whole life to know Him), it is paralyzing in effect if needed before decision-making, albeit good for stopping someone running around after every voice.

[u][b](#2)[/b][/u] I see one can treat this parallization with “if Scripture gives no clear teaching “ and “the situation is something indifferent” and “you are free to decide.”

[u]“if Scripture gives no clear teaching “ [/u] There are a lot of pitfalls in that treatment: If you think that Scripture is sufficient to guide, how could it give no clear teaching on anything we would encounter? We can study the Bible and find much, in context, to the point guidance, that cannot all be applied in a situation at once. Recall all your lessons in learning to apply.

[u]“the situation is something indifferent”[/u] What doesn’t seem to matter to me often seems to matter to God. What I usually find is Grace: God working together for good. Who would ever want to defend a list of situations about which such a Holy God is indifferent?

[u]“you are free to decide.” [/u] It seems to us we do always decide(when the scripture has been searched enough, is it clear, does God care). The pit fall here is “Oh goodie. I always wanted to decide between good and evil.” Will there not be an accounting for every word?

Surely you heard the plea for the Spirit of God in the posts. And there is always the needful death of self that can hide as we walk out of confusion.

[u][b](#3) [/b][/u] Then there is escaping paralysis by the extreme of finding a Pharisee. This is the concern I hear expressed in posts. For untold lifetimes, the Jews had the Scriptures that spoke of the Son of Man/ Son of God. Jesus spoke as though they were sufficient. They searched the scriptures. When they finally gave up worshiping the idols made by their neighbors, with great effort they built up, [u][b]out of the words of man[/b][/u] an idol to worship. They “changed “ the Word of God (logos) into the words (rhema) of man. They took the word[u][b]s[/b][/u] (rhema not logos) of Moses, recorded in the Torah, and wrote what “rest and no labor on the Sabbath” meant (Matthew 12:3-8), what “adultery” and “honoring your mother and father,” meant (Mark 8:9-13). In that way [u][b]they not God [/b][/u] said what was good and evil using their human mind (Genesis 3:5). In this way they built up/fashioned, generation by generation, an image of God to worship, an idol made with their minds, rather than their hands, made of the words of man rather than wood. They exchanged the truth for a lie. Their imagination of God lifted itself up against the [u]knowledge[/u] of God so their judgment of what Jesus did became the judgment of man not righteous judgment (John 7:22-24). Trusting in the word[u][b]s[/b][/u] of man, made man himself their idol and they worshiped man: So, they said, “Abraham is our father.” lifting up the man Abraham and not God.

The idol they made blinded them. Psalm 115:5b-6a, 8 states this clearly in speaking of idols made by man and what happens to idol makers:

“ … eyes they have, but they see not: They have ears, but they hear not … [u]They that make them are like unto them; so is everyone that trusteth in them.” [/u]

Idols are teachers of lies that idol-makers trust in (Habakkuk 2:18). Satan fathered man’s making of gods as he fathered lies (You shall not surely die …you shall be as gods). Blindness (not seeing, not knowing, not understanding) and deafness are both a witness (Isaiah 44:9b) and the work of Satan (Isaiah 44:18)

[u]This is just one application that stood out to me in the warning Brothertom referenced [/u] (to support the fact of hearing): Take care how you hear (Luke 8:18). If I hear the words of man, I am deaf to the Word of God. Before the Spirit of God is given, we can easily fall prey to the elaborated blindness that Jesus described (Matthew 11-13) or some other elaborated blindness (evolution that worships the creature’s flesh improving itself, psychology that worships man’s soul improving the self, the worldview of Hitler that worships the generation of a race/nation of supermen, American case law that worships man’s ever improving interpretation of right and wrong, etc.). We must know whom we worship (John 4:24).

Back to Balance: It makes good sense to point anyone to the Word of God who is confused with “hearing God, discerning and doing His will rather than their own, other people' or the will of familiar spirits,” just don't neglect the power of God Phil 3:10.--- Sigh.---[b]Please forgive me for not shortening this.[/b]

[b]“if Scripture gives no clear teaching “ There are a lot of pitfalls in that treatment: If you think that Scripture is sufficient to guide, how could it give no clear teaching on anything we would encounter? We can study the Bible and find much, in context, to the point guidance, that cannot all be applied in a situation at once. Recall all your lessons in learning to apply.

“the situation is something indifferent” What doesn’t seem to matter to me often seems to matter to God. What I usually find is Grace: God working together for good. Who would ever want to defend a list of situations about which such a Holy God is indifferent?

“you are free to decide.” It seems to us we do always decide(when the scripture has been searched enough, is it clear, does God care). The pit fall here is “Oh goodie. I always wanted to decide between good and evil.” Will there not be an accounting for every word?
[/b]

The Scripture [b]doesn't[/b] state where I am to live, where I am to work, who I am to marry, etc. The Scripture [b]does[/b] exhort me to make godly, wise decisions that will be to God's glory and for the good of my family (if I have one). So, as I look for a job, I take potential jobs and I consider if they would be wise jobs to take (will it be a compromise to holiness, etc.). If I find nothing sinful about the job, I am free to either take the job or not take the job. It's my decision. I trust God in His providence to work all things for good. I have a command from Scripture to work with my hands in order to provide for myself.

The same thing goes for marriage. Again, the Scripture gives general guidelines. Is the woman godly, are we a good match, etc? If so, do I want to marry her? It is my decision.

Now, of course, I am going to pray about those decisions. I am going to pray for the Lord to give me a sound mind, wise judgment according to His Scripture, etc... I am not going to pray "Lord, please tell me if you want me to do this" then if I feel a warm feeling or "yes" suggested into my mind assume the Lord is approving of my decision.

Also, it would be wise to seek counsel from godly people who know you personally.

That is what I meant by freedom to decide.

[b]Regarding the Scriptural evidence you presented:[/b]

I am not sure what the witness of the risen Lord in either of the cases presented really have to do with the topic in this thread. Both of those situations are situations where the party involved did not recognize the physical person of Jesus.

---------------------------------

I really appreciate the people who are interacting in this thread. I think this could prove to be a valuable resource for readers who want to see both sides of the issue presented and hopefully come to a Scriptural conclusion.

I am being firm in my arguments, but please do not take that as being hateful with the people involved. I am sure if we were to meet in person we would have good fellowship over the things of God.

My own experience is when God speaks to me it has been as it was with elijah.

And he said, Go forth, and stand upon the mount before the LORD. And, behold, the LORD passed by, and a great and strong wind rent the mountains, and brake in pieces the rocks before the LORD; but the LORD was not in the wind: and after the wind an earthquake; but the LORD was not in the earthquake: And after the earthquake a fire; but the LORD was not in the fire: and after the fire [b]a still small voice[/b]. And it was so, when [b]Elijah heard it[/b], that he wrapped his face in his mantle, and went out, and stood in the entering in of the cave. And, behold, [b]there came a voice unto him[/b], and said, What doest thou here, Elijah?

1 Ki 19:11-13

Now i havent heard an audible voice, but God has spoken to me many times, but 95% of the times it has been through scripture.

I think it is very vital to KNOW the scriptures well, it is the sword that cut and divide through the soulish and the spiritual.

We use the sword to discern if it was god who spoke, as we also do when we hear a "prophet" speak, we use the word to discern if that word was from the Lord or just from that prophets own imagination.

here we have to know the word, it is interesting, that the bible says:

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

so we need to use this sword to separate what God may have spoken and not. The major bones in our body have marrow in them, i have heard that the line that separates the two, is so thin, you cant almost tell where the marrow starts and the bone ends.

So it is sometimes with us and the discerning between the soulish and the spiritual.

Christian

hmmhmm,

Elijah heard a voice. An audible voice.

I have been trying to show that there is no Biblical evidence or support for a "God has spoken to me, but not with an audible voice" view.

To believe we receive infallible thoughts (which is what they would be if God was giving us revelation in our thoughts) is to set ourselves up as little popes.

The belief in a perfect and sufficient Scripture that needs no supplements is the only antidote for this. The Holy Spirit enables us to understand, love, and cherish the Scripture; however, I see no evidence that the Holy Spirit reveals things to us via thoughts in the mind.

Mat 10:27 What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops.

Rev 3:22 He that hath an [b]ear[/b], let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Strongs

G3775
οὖς
ous
ooce
Apparently a primary word; the ear (physically or mentally): - ear.

Thayer Definition:

1) the ear

2) metaphorically the faculty of perceiving with the mind, the faculty of understanding and knowing
Part of Speech:

I do understand what you getting at, there are two extremes here, we see many saying they hear Gods voice and saying Gods spirit speaking through them , and as they speak they speak against what we have as written scripture. And on a personal level it can also be misused and mixed up and so on.

But.... what does christians who never once in their life read a bible or have opportunity to do so?

Cant they be lead by God? hearing his spirit speak to their spirit?

[i]Deep calleth unto deep[/i]

Dont you think we see many examples throughout the bible of this? I can agree with your warnings, but as your saying goes over there :-P

dont throw out the baby with the bath water

:-)

Matthew 10:27 is referring to the gospel that Jesus gave to the apostles to declare to the people. It doesn't appear to be anything impressed on their mind outside of what Jesus had told them.

Revelation 3:22 is an exhortation to take heed to what had been spoken by the Lord and recorded in writing by the Apostle John in this instance. Again, it has nothing to do with impressions upon the mind. The letters were what the Spirit had spoken to the churches. It was written down.

Regarding Christians who have never read the Bible.... apparently, in all likelihood, someone who knew the Bible must have taught them what the Bible says, or else they would not be Christians. So, if they have a teacher who does know what the Bible says, they can be guided as that person expounds the Scripture to them and explains it to them. However, this is straying away from Scripture reasoning and just throwing out hypothetical situations to try and solve the dispute.

[b]Dont you think we see many examples throughout the bible of this?[/b]

Like?

I think we see it all over in acts, The spirit speaking to people, telling them where to go and sometimes stopping them from going.

Sometimes the spirit sent forth men, The Holy Spirit is not as much a feeling as he is a person.

God spoke

Jesus spoke

And the spirit speaks...

God is the same,

Mat 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

God may speak to me and through me by his spirit.

of course he wont contradict his already written word.

I think we can draw much from Gods prophet Haggai

Hag 1:13 Then spake Haggai the LORD'S messenger in the LORD'S message unto the people, saying, I am with you, saith the LORD.

[i]the LORD'S messenger in the LORD'S message[/i]

I think when Gods spirit, the person is transforming us from glory to glory we will die to ourself, our own words and our whole being will be one with God, when we speak it is God that speaks through us. We are the Lords message, God lives in us

We speak from experience what God already done for us. If it was not so how could we know? is the spirits witness a feeling or what do you think?

Is it audible words in our minds? Myself have never had such experience, but i have heard the spirit speaking to me. Sometimes stopping me from saying something, going somewhere, or said to me "Christian, stopp , turn around go back and say your sorry for the way you said that"

ect , ect

But as I said , we need to know the spirits voice, the Shepard's voice, because there are many voices, we have our own soulish voice, God spoke the whole creation into being, he spoke to men in OT, he spoke to us through his son Jesus, and now we have another comforter/guide.

just my thoughts....

God bless you brother

[u]Crssch[/u]: In your Spirit back of the Letter post, you suggested to Taylor: Do a study on spirit, on spiritual, on the Holy Spirit and anything related. Likewise study the heart and understanding from beginning to end, the whole counsel of Gods word. This has always been the Lords great controversy with his creatures, that they do not know Him in the manner and ways that he would have us to.

What a wonderful idea for anyone. There is so much to be gained by agreeing with the Word of God. Isn’t that why we love Taylor so much: his heart for the Word of God. I have great CONFIDENCE IN GOD (Father, Son, Holy Spirit), the Word of God.

Anyway, I was reminded after that post last night of Job: the door to revival that is there. In particular, God’s view of Job (perfect, upright, feared God, eschewed evil, his servant). Setting aside the HOW of his “knowledge of scripture”, he both successfully knew and obeyed. Meeting God (could I call that revival) we see our nature and are changed. A wonderful death (Job 27:6, 40:4, 42:6)

FROM

6 My righteousness I hold fast, and will not let it go: my heart shall not reproach me so long as I live.

TO

4 Behold, I am vile; what shall I answer thee? I will lay mine hand upon my mouth.

AND

6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.

[b]All this from a man that knew and obeyed.[/b]

Returning to your recommended study of the Holy Spirit:

Hebrews 9:14 – [b]“through the Eternal Spirit”[/b] Jesus offered himself without spot to God
Romans 8:13 – only through the Holy Spirit that we can put to death the flesh.

Of course there are thousands of eternal truths in these verses but the one that encouraged me today takes note of the PROCESS that occurs for every indwelt child of God.

What does you folks make of this verse? to me it is pretty clear :-)

Act 13:1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.
Act 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, [b]the Holy Ghost said[/b], Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.

[b]LOVE IT I DO - (and much to the point)[/b]

I recall years ago. In a Bible study, about 15 of us. I was oh so slowly growing. There may well have been an unbelieving-but-drawn one there. We had finnished one book of the Bible and in discussing what to study next, everyone had a different idea, favorite, and reason to take that up next. Not one suggestion the same book.

So we prayed (a simple, short prayer) and took a silent vote on pieces of paper. Yup. 15 people wrote "Acts", me included. Not one of us had suggested Acts earlier. It was a wonder to each of us. Joy broke out. We even made a song up (wish I could remember it). There was no audible-to-others voice. Thank you for the memories. :-D Hummhumm I think your verses are wonderful, to the point

Thanks all for your replies etc.

Well, I concluded that what I thought was God speaking was GOD speaking and acted on it. All is well. Can't go into details but it was the right thing to do.

On reflection the only times I have questioned whether what I think is God's voice is in fact God's voice is when I don't want to do what he is asking me!!

Hi Griffo,

I am just curious, how did you conclude that God has spoken to you?

On reflection the only times I have questioned whether what I think is God's voice is in fact God's voice is when I don't want to do what he is asking me!!

I don't believe in Sola Scriptura because Jesus didn't/doesn't: John 5:39

Scripture was also not sufficient for all needs, needs fulfilled by the New Testament Prophets in the book of Acts: Acts 11:27-30

We are still in the New Testament.

What else do you look to besides scripture for instruction in the faith and guidance? If Jesus does not believe in scripture alone for knowledge of Him what else would He direct us to?